Raymond Mooney's trial testimony

First Judicial District of Pennsylvania 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Original File TOY1.V1, 228 Pages CRS Catalog ID: 12030958 _________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ First Judicial District of Pennsylvania 100 South Broad Street, Second Floor Philadelphia, PA 19110 (215) 683-8000 FAX:(215) 683-8005 [1] [2] IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF PHILADELPHIA [3] FIRST JUDICIAL DISTRICT OF PENNSYLVANIA [4] CRIMINAL TRIAL DIVISION [5] - - - [6] COMMONWEALTH : [7] VS. : [8] JOHN McLAUGHLIN : CP-51-CR-0010456-2008 [9] -AND- SAMUEL TOY : CP-51-CR-0010457-2008 [10] - - - [11] Courtroom 907 Justice Center [12] Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tuesday, February 21, 2012 [13] - - - [14] BEFORE: THE HONORABLE JEFFREY P. MINEHART [15] AND A JURY [16] - - - [17] CASE IN CHIEF [18] - - - [19] (VOLUME III) [20] - - - [21] [22] [23] [24] [25] Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 1 [1] [2] APPEARANCES: [3] [4] JUDE CONROY, ESQ. Assistant District Attorney [5] Counsel for the Commonwealth [6] BRIAN J. McMONAGLE, ESQ. Counsel for Defendant McLaughlin [7] VINCENT P. DiFABIO, ESQ. [8] Counsel for Defendant Toy [9] - - - [10] COMMONWEALTH'S EVIDENCE DIRECT CR. REDR. RECR. [11] Raymond T. Mooney 21 [12] [13] - - - [14] [15] [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] [23] [24] [25] Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 2 [1] [2] P R O C E E D I N G S. [3] (The following conference was [4] held in the robing room.) [5] THE COURT: Let's go on the [6] record. [7] MR. CONROY: Your Honor, we're [8] in chambers with the -- [9] THE COURT: Robing room. [10] MR. CONROY: Yes, with Mr. [11] McMonagle and Mr. DiFabio and of course Your [12] Honor, myself, Judge Conroy, and the court [13] reporter. [14] Judge, first, I have spoken to [15] my witness Mr. Mooney over the weekend and he [16] informs me that a letter had been written by [17] him to the defendant. I've never seen the [18] letter. I don't know if it's within the [19] possession of Mr. McMonagle or Mr. DiFabio, [20] but if it is I would ask the Court to consider [21] allowing me to review that before Mr. Mooney [22] takes the stand. That's the first issue. [23] THE COURT: Is there any [24] objection to that for him reviewing it? [25] MR. CONROY: I can make my Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 3 [1] [2] argument as to why I think it's relevant. [3] MR. McMONAGLE: I will say to [4] the Court I do have a letter that was sent to [5] my client from Mr. Mooney. [6] THE COURT: Do you have any [7] objection to the prosecutor reviewing it? [8] MR. McMONAGLE: Yes. [9] THE COURT: Okay. Well, is [10] there any question it was written by him? [11] MR. McMONAGLE: No. [12] MR. CONROY: I think it's fair [13] disclosure, Judge. [14] THE COURT: I'm going to allow [15] him to review it and before you put it in. [16] MR. McMONAGLE: May I be [17] excused to go get the letter? [18] THE COURT: Sure. [19] MR. DiFABIO: And, Your Honor, [20] for the record, I do not have a copy of the [21] letter. [22] THE COURT: All right. We'll [23] make a copy for you, Vince. We have a case on [24] the issue of the witness and when John gets in [25] he'll bring it down. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 4 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 1 (page 1 - 4) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] [2] MR. McMONAGLE: Yes, sir. [3] MR. CONROY: Judge, if I may. [4] THE COURT: Yeah. I mean, the [5] whole letter comes in if it comes in. I mean, [6] there's stuff there that -- [7] MR. CONROY: Right. The only [8] thing that I just want to inform counsel, [9] obviously the letter looks like it's [10] postmarked the twenty-second of November of [11] 2011. [12] THE COURT: It's postmarked? [13] MR. CONROY: The front. Here [14] you go, Judge. [15] THE COURT: I didn't get the [16] front. [17] MR. McMONAGLE: I'm sorry, [18] Judge. Here you go. [19] THE COURT: That's all right. [20] Okay. [21] MR. CONROY: The only thing [22] that I want to inform counsel, Judge, is the [23] witness tells me that Wayne Bowie helped him [24] draft the letter. He gave him an outline of [25] what to write. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 5 [1] [2] THE COURT: Just off the [3] record. [4] (Discussion held off the [5] record.) [6] MR. CONROY: Judge, I guess [7] what I want to inform counsel and place before [8] the Court and on the record is that Mr. Mooney [9] informs me that he wrote this letter and that [10] he did it at the direction of Wayne Bowie, who [11] actually gave him more or less a script of [12] what to write in the letter. So I just want [13] to inform counsel and the Court that, you [14] know, he's listed on the witness list. He [15] took a number of these statements. And [16] there's a growing concern of his, you know, [17] possibility of needing counsel himself. [18] THE COURT: We'll do that. [19] We'll deal with that when he gets up. [20] MR. CONROY: That's one issue. [21] The other issue, Judge, vis-a-vis Mooney is [22] the issue of cross examining regarding alleged [23] IRA ties and his connection. Judge, I'm [24] completely unaware of any connection of any [25] ties to the IRA. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 6 [1] [2] THE COURT: I mean, Mr. [3] McMonagle, do you intend to cross him on that? [4] MR. McMONAGLE: Judge, my [5] understanding is that in speaking to my client [6] and in investigating the case that there was [7] evidence that Mr. Mooney raised funds for the [8] IRA and that his relationship with Mr. O'Neill [9] spans actually more than a decade and that, [10] yeah, that Mr. Mooney was actively involved in [11] raising money. I don't want to say he's a [12] member of the IRA. I'm not suggesting that. [13] But that he was raising money for guns to go [14] back to Ireland. [15] THE COURT: At this point I'm [16] not going to allow that. I just think it's [17] too speculative and it brings in an issue that [18] really isn't probative of this case. So I'm [19] going to -- [20] MR. McMONAGLE: You have my [21] exception, Your Honor. [22] THE COURT: I do, and your [23] motion in limine on that is granted. [24] MR. CONROY: The other thing as [25] it relates to Mr. Mooney, Your Honor, is we've Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 7 [1] [2] litigated, I think there were statements [3] submitted by Mr. McMonagle and Mr. DiFabio [4] vis-a-vis Mr. Mooney and some prior acts of [5] violence, i.e., Mooney will get up and say [6] that he took the action, numbers, horse [7] racing, sports betting in the bar and that he [8] was always quick to collect money from people [9] but slow to pay, and counsel has indicated [10] they have other witnesses who they [11] memorialized on paper to say that Mooney on [12] some prior occasions would have people come in [13] to be paid on their various winnings, would [14] pull out a bat, pull out a gun, threaten [15] people and wouldn't pay and was quick to grab [16] a bat. [17] Counsel submitted case law. [18] Judge, the one case I would submit to the [19] Court this morning is Commonwealth versus [20] Chimel, C-H-I-M-E-L, David Chimel. It's [21] Pennsylvania Supreme Court, December [22] twenty-ninth of '05. Chimel presented a [23] similar situation where Chimel was charged [24] with burglarizing a home up in Scranton, going [25] in, stealing items and then killing the three Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 8 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 2 (page 5 - 8) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] [2] senior citizen patrons. One of the residents [3] or one of the witnesses against him was his [4] brother Martin, who was found in possession of [5] some of the, I think the investigation broke [6] as a result of the defendant's brother being [7] in possession of some of the stolen items. [8] He testified at trial and in essence, Judge, [9] the defense attempted to cross examine him on [10] a prior burglary which parenthetically was [11] uncharged and obviously never convicted. [12] The Court in that case, [13] Pennsylvania Supreme Court, well, the trial [14] court said that they would not, the defense [15] would not be allowed to cross examine him on [16] this prior burglary and in essence, Your [17] Honor, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court relied [18] and on page thirty-five of the opinion said [19] principally that going into the a 404 (b) [20] analysis regarding introduction of other [21] crimes of burglary crime and essentially [22] saying, well, my brother did this, he [23] committed a prior burglary, you know, he's the [24] one that had access and the ability to do this [25] and similar such arguments, the Court said Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 9 [1] [2] there again, using the exact language of the [3] 404 (b), said that it is a long-standing [4] principle in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania [5] that evidence of a distinct crime except under [6] special circumstances is inadmissible, is not [7] permissible use of other crimes addressed in [8] 404 (b,) which states, quote, evidence of [9] other crimes, wrongs or acts is not admissible [10] to prove the character of a person in order to [11] show action in conformity therewith. And, [12] Judge, that's what, you know, in essence, that [13] Mooney did this on prior occasions and [14] therefore he did it on this occasion. [15] Counsel submitted a variety of [16] case law, Commonwealth versus Tony Boyle, the [17] old Jock Yablonski killing, and a variety of [18] other cases, all of which, I believe, stand [19] for the principle that other crimes evidence [20] can come in against the witness or evidence to [21] show that other people had a motive to kill [22] the victim. [23] In this case, Judge, defense [24] has a statement from Mr. Mooney taken by Wayne [25] Bowie wherein Mr. Mooney admitted that he Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 10 [1] [2] committed the murder and also admitted that he [3] did it because he had a motive that he owed [4] the decedent money from hitting a number and [5] he just didn't have the money to pay him. I [6] don't object to any of that specific motive [7] evidence. It all comes in. Statements all [8] come in and there can be fertile cross [9] examination on Mooney's motive to kill. But [10] what, Judge, I argue strenuously should not [11] come in is any prior incidents where there's [12] an allegation of Mooney failing to pay someone [13] and maybe pulling out a bat or picking up a [14] gun. First off, again, it's brought in to [15] show that just simply, you know, as 404 (b), [16] the propensities of Mr. Mooney and that he [17] acted in conformity therewith. [18] There's clear motive evidence. [19] They claim, they have a statement saying [20] Mooney had the motive. I don't have any [21] objection to that. And I think the one case [22] that counsel submitted, Commonwealth versus [23] Davis from maybe '83, talked about cross [24] examining a witness on a prior murder and in [25] that case, Judge, the defendant, a male, and Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 11 [1] [2] two female accomplices were charged with a [3] robbery-murder. The two females testified for [4] the Commonwealth. The allegation there is [5] that the allegation was that, you know, the [6] defendant had to have been part of this [7] because the two ladies couldn't have carried [8] this out by themselves. That's a very unique [9] situation where as fate would have it both of [10] the Commonwealth witnesses had been convicted [11] of a prior murder by themselves and were able [12] to physically do it, which rebutted that. [13] That's a very unique situation and if we were [14] to analogize I think the holding in that case [15] to this case, if counsel were to say that Ray [16] Mooney, you know, assaulted someone to the [17] extent to the level of violence and ferocity [18] that was used in this case, then, Judge, we [19] might have a different issue on our hands. [20] But in terms of this, in terms of, you know, [21] these just bald assertions that he pulled a [22] bat on prior patrons, I think it is to show [23] exactly that which 404 (b) precludes and I'd [24] ask the Court to consider strongly excluding [25] it. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 12 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 3 (page 9 - 12) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] [2] THE COURT: Mr. McMonagle. [3] MR. McMONAGLE: Your Honor, as [4] the Court is aware, I had recently submitted [5] not only case law to the Court but the two [6] proffered statements -- [7] THE COURT: I saw that. [8] MR. McMONAGLE: -- of Mr. [9] Gilmore and Mr. Moore that relates to this [10] issue, and I'll kind of begin where Mr. Conroy [11] ended. I think Mr. Conroy concedes that under [12] a 404 (b) analysis, the courts have looked [13] with favor where we're not talking about a [14] criminal defendant and we are talking about a [15] witness, particularly a witness that the [16] defense is claiming was responsible for the [17] crime, of allowing the defense to introduce [18] what is typically 404 (b) evidence at least [19] from a perspective of analysis, that is, other [20] crimes evidence to suggest either motive or [21] signature. [22] In this case we have both. We [23] have with Mr. Moore and Mr. Gilmore evidence [24] of motive and signature of the idea that Mr. [25] Mooney, who by his own admission is a bookie Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 13 [1] [2] which takes bets out of the McWhitey's Bar, [3] had on previous occasions taken bets and not [4] actually placed them and then when the [5] individuals unfortunately for him hit, he's [6] not in a position to pay them and in response [7] to their request for payment, violence is [8] ensued. [9] The theory of the defense in [10] this case is precisely that. We obtained that [11] theory from Mr. Mooney from his own words, as [12] Mr. Conroy has correctly observed, the [13] statement that he gave where he has at least [14] according to the defense acknowledged that he [15] did owe Mr. O'Neill a debt from his successful [16] playing of a number and that that's what [17] originated this argument that led to Mr. [18] O'Neill's death. [19] We submit to the Court that it [20] is essential for the defense to establish this [21] evidence to show to the jury that Mr. Mooney [22] is capable not only of this crime but has [23] propensity to commit such crimes. I agree it [24] wasn't a previous murder, but to me that cuts [25] the other way. I think if it was a previous Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 14 [1] [2] murder Mr. Conroy could probably successfully [3] argue that the probative value is outweighed [4] by the prejudicial impact. Here under a 404 [5] analysis the prejudicial impact is not great. [6] He didn't kill anybody but he did use violence [7] in response to this same debtlike situation [8] that places us at least from the defense [9] perspective at the bar of the court. [10] I submit that under a 404 (b) [11] analysis, and we've submitted to the Court and [12] I know you've read the case of Commonwealth [13] versus Rini, Commonwealth versus Smith, [14] Commonwealth versus Tony Boyle, which I know [15] the Court is familiar with, and Commonwealth [16] versus Moore, all were cases where the Court [17] erred on the side of caution and allowed the [18] defense to inject this evidence into the case [19] in an effort to provide the defendant with a [20] right to a fair trial. [21] THE COURT: Very well. [22] MR. DiFABIO: Your Honor, if I [23] can just chime in for a moment. [24] THE COURT: Sure. [25] MR. DiFABIO: In reading the Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 15 [1] [2] case that was submitted this morning by [3] Mr. Conroy, the Chimel case, it appears a [4] couple things. Number one, it looks as if the [5] appellant defendant in that case actually made [6] a number of statements confessing to the [7] crime. I think that weighed heavily in the [8] Court's determination that the evidence was [9] somewhat overwhelming in that case. Number [10] two, it doesn't appear as if the appellant at [11] trial made a real cogent argument for the [12] admission of that burglary charge, tried to [13] argue it more strenuously in the, it looks [14] like in the appeal. But it would seem to me [15] that in our case here, we're making a very [16] strong argument as to a common plan or scheme [17] that Mr. Mooney is engaged in a similar [18] conduct in the past and we have witnesses that [19] will testify to that. [20] So here I agree with co-counsel [21] that I think the probative value here clearly [22] outweighs any prejudice in this case and it is [23] a discretionary call by the Court, and I think [24] it is vital and critical to our defense here [25] vis-a-vis Mr. Mooney. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 16 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 4 (page 13 - 16) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] [2] THE COURT: Very well. I have [3] a case coming down. I'll give you my holding [4] when we get a short break and put it on the [5] record so everything is clear. [6] MR. CONROY: And we won't get [7] to cross examination and I won't touch on it. [8] MR. DiFABIO: I'm a little [9] concerned about something else that's [10] developing here with respect to my client. [11] I'm hearing, I see this letter today that is [12] written. I'm hearing that for the first time [13] that possibly Mr. Bowie may be behind that [14] letter. There may be some impropriety at [15] least what I'm hearing involving Mr. Bowie. [16] My client and myself, we didn't engage him as [17] our investigator. I'm very concerned about [18] the spillover effect that any of this [19] negativity is going to have on my client at [20] this point. The defense is going to be sort [21] of lumped here together and I'm very concerned [22] about the prejudicial effect it may have on [23] Mr. Toy. I'm leaning very closely to asking [24] for severance at this point. [25] THE COURT: I'm not going to Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 17 [1] [2] sever the case mid trial at this point and [3] jeopardy is attached and I don't think it [4] rises to the level of severance. I will give [5] a cautionary instruction if and when counsel [6] for the prosecution introduces that statement [7] and if and when Mr. Bowie testifies, I'll give [8] the same cautionary instruction. [9] MR. DiFABIO: Thank you, Your [10] Honor. [11] THE COURT: Anything further? [12] MR. McMONAGLE: Can I take a [13] few minutes with my client? [14] THE COURT: Yeah. Go ahead. [15] Put him in the booth. [16] MR. CONROY: The only thing I [17] was going to ask for, Judge, if Stephens is [18] here, I would ask for sequestration for him. [19] MR. McMONAGLE: Oh, God. I [20] don't know who he is, Judge. I'm stunned [21] that he's here. [22] THE COURT: You can put [23] McLaughlin in the booth. He's going to come [24] talk to him for a few minutes. And before we [25] bring the jury out, I should have that case Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 18 [1] [2] down here and I'll give you a ruling on that [3] so you'll have it for cross examination. [4] (Conference held in the robing [5] room concluded.) [6] (A brief recess was taken.) [7] COURT CRIER: Cease all [8] conversations. Court is in session. [9] THE COURT: I want to put on [10] the record here, we had a discussion in the [11] robing room concerning certain evidence coming [12] in and I've been provided with cases from Mr. [13] McMonagle and Mr. DiFabio and from the [14] Commonwealth. We've put on the record [15] Commonwealth versus Smith, Commonwealth versus [16] Tony Boyle, Commonwealth versus Norman Rini. [17] Commonwealth has provided the Commonwealth of [18] Pennsylvania versus David Chimel and I've [19] heard argument on the issue. And I'm going to [20] grant the Commonwealth's motion to bar the [21] presentation of statements or testimony from [22] witnesses concerning alleged violent behavior [23] on behalf of a witness Mr. Mooney who's [24] scheduled to testify next. [25] Based on my review of the Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 19 [1] [2] relevant case law, I also have a case of [3] Commonwealth versus Fuller, which is 336 PA [4] Super 507, Superior Court case, 1984. [5] Witnesses' credibility may not be impeached -- [6] this is the Court speaking -- by prior acts of [7] misconduct. This was was a PCRA case and [8] although the counsel on the PCRA didn't [9] preserve the issue, the Court addressed it, [10] the attempt during the course of the trial to [11] present evidence of prior bad acts of [12] misconduct. Witnesses' credibility may not be [13] impeached by prior acts of misconduct which [14] have not led to convictions, then only and if [15] it was a conviction, only if the crimes [16] involved crimes of dishonesty or false [17] statements. [18] So with that, the motion in [19] limine of the Commonwealth is granted. Very [20] well. Let's proceed. We'll bring the jury [21] out and we'll open court. [22] COURT CRIER: Please remain [23] seated as the jury enters the courtroom. [24] (Jury summoned.) [25] COURT CRIER: All rise. In the Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 20 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 5 (page 17 - 20) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] [2] name of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, this [3] Court of Common Pleas Homicide Division is now [4] declared open. The Honorable Judge Jeffrey P. [5] Minehart is presiding. Please be seated and [6] cease all conversations. [7] Good morning, Your Honor. [8] THE COURT: Good morning, [9] jurors. We had prior matters before the Court [10] which we had to resolve, but we do appreciate [11] your promptness. Commonwealth, call your next [12] witness. [13] MR. CONROY: Your Honor, the [14] Commonwealth would call Raymond Mooney. [15] COURT CRIER: Please stand here [16] for me, sir. Watch your step. [17] THE COURT: They're going to [18] swear you in, sir. [19] THE WITNESS: Yes. [20] COURT CRIER: Please state your [21] and spell your full name for the Court, [22] please. [23] THE WITNESS: Raymond Thomas [24] Mooney. [25] COURT CRIER: Spell your last Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 21 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] name, please. [3] THE WITNESS: M-O-O-N-E-Y. [4] RAYMOND T. MOONEY, after having [5] been duly sworn, was examined and testified as [6] follows. . . [7] THE COURT: Very well. You may [8] proceed, Mr. Conroy. [9] MR. CONROY: Thank you, Your [10] Honor. [11] DIRECT EXAMINATION [12] BY MR. CONROY: [13] Q. Mr. Mooney? [14] A. Yes. [15] Q. Good morning. [16] THE COURT: You can put that [17] microphone to you, sir. Pull your chair up [18] because we have to hear you. We're making a [19] record. [20] THE WITNESS: Can you hear me? [21] THE COURT: That's it. You're [22] doing great now. Just talk into the [23] microphone. Go ahead, Mr. Conroy. [24] BY MR. CONROY: [25] Q. Mr. Mooney, it's important if Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 22 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] you can't hear any of my questions, just ask [3] me to repeat them. If you don't understand [4] them, just ask me to repeat it and I'll, or [5] you don't understand it and I'll rephrase it. [6] Fair enough? [7] A. Okay. [8] Q. Mr. Mooney, you're going to [9] have to keep your voice loud. [10] A. Okay. [11] Q. So the ladies on the far end of [12] the jury box can hear all your answers. Okay? [13] Fair enough? [14] A. Yes. [15] Q. And we have a gentleman seated [16] right off to your left who also has to take [17] down all of your answers stenographically, so [18] you have to answer yes or no. Sometimes we [19] have a tendency to say uh-huh for yes or uh-uh [20] for no. He can't take that down. Fair [21] enough? [22] A. Yes. [23] Q. Mr. Mooney, I want to ask you [24] if you know the defendant in this case, John [25] McLaughlin, seated at the far end of the Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 23 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] courtroom. Do you know? [3] A. Yes. [4] Q. How do you know the defendant [5] John McLaughlin? [6] A. I worked at the family bar. [7] Q. Was was the name of that bar? [8] A. McWhitey's. [9] Q. And where was that bar located? [10] A. Mercer and Venango. [11] Q. Up in the Port Richmond section [12] of Philadelphia? [13] A. Yes. [14] Q. Prior to January of 2008, how [15] long did you work for the defendant at [16] McWhitey's? [17] A. Before 2008? [18] Q. Yeah. I mean, how long did you [19] work for John McLaughlin? [20] A. About two and a half, three [21] years, something like that, four years. [22] Q. Four years? Okay. During the [23] period of time that he actually, his family [24] owned the bar? [25] A. Yes. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 24 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 6 (page 21 - 24) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. Did you work at that bar prior [3] to that? [4] A. Yes. [5] Q. How long in total did you work [6] at that corner bar? [7] A. About fourteen, fifteen years. [8] Q. Mr. Mooney, at the bar, and [9] specifically I want to refer to January of [10] 2008, when you were working for John [11] McLaughlin at McWhitey's Pub, what were your [12] duties? [13] A. I was the bartender and [14] manager. [15] Q. And typically, Mr. Mooney, when [16] would you bartend? What were your hours [17] during a typical week back in 2007 going into [18] 2008? [19] A. Eleven to seven. [20] Q. Eleven in the morning to seven [21] at night? [22] A. Yes. [23] Q. And did you ever work any [24] nights? Did you ever work the night shift or [25] somebody else, some other? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 25 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] A. No, somebody else. [3] Q. Okay. Now, Mr. Mooney, at the [4] bar, in addition to bartending, you indicated [5] I think you were both the bartender and the [6] manager, correct? [7] A. Yes. [8] Q. And what as a manager would [9] your duties include? In addition to obviously [10] serving customers as they come in, what other [11] duties would you have? What were your duties [12] at the bar? What would you do as a manager? [13] A. Beer order. I, you know, write [14] that up if we need it. If we're short of [15] liquor, you know, write it down. You tell [16] them, you know. [17] Q. Okay. [18] A. And then, you know, and try to [19] keep the place clean. [20] Q. Okay. [21] A. And, you know, if they needed [22] money or something I would, you know. If the [23] cook needed money for to go get something, I'd [24] pay them and get the receipts and all that [25] bit. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 26 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. By the way, Mr. Mooney, you are [3] currently how many years of age, sir? [4] A. Sixty-five. I'll be sixty-six [5] in May. [6] Q. Mr. Mooney, in addition to [7] serving as the manager and the bartender, did [8] you also, as they say on the street, take the [9] action in the bar? [10] A. Yes. [11] Q. And tell us a little bit about [12] that. What was it that you would do? You [13] engaged in illegal gambling, correct? [14] A. Yes. [15] Q. Tell us a little bit about [16] that. What did you do typically? [17] A. Well, I took the numbers and I [18] took the horses. [19] Q. Okay. So just so for the [20] benefit of the ladies and gentlemen of the [21] jury, when you say you took the number, [22] explain what you mean by that. [23] A. That's the lottery number at [24] night, three-digit number. [25] Q. Okay. So people could come and Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 27 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] bet the number that would be posted at seven [3] o'clock at night with you? [4] A. Yes. [5] Q. Instead of going to a machine, [6] they would play it with you. [7] A. Yes. [8] Q. And in terms of horses, I guess [9] the horse races that were on TV, you would [10] take bets? [11] A. Yes. [12] Q. Ever any football betting? [13] A. I didn't have nothing to do [14] with football betting. I ran a pool. [15] Q. Well, okay. What kind of pool [16] did you run? [17] A. It was, it was a pool and every [18] person picks two teams and they got two points [19] for a win and one point for a push or a tie, [20] and then we add them up all at the end of the [21] year and gave the five top prizes, ten top [22] prizes out, share it. [23] Q. Mr. Mooney, I want to ask you, [24] I want to direct your attention specifically [25] back to Wednesday, January second, of 2008, Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 28 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 7 (page 25 - 28) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] the day after New Year's. That Wednesday [3] going into a Thursday, did you work at [4] McWhitey's Pub that particular day? [5] A. On a Wednesday? [6] Q. Yeah. [7] A. Yes. [8] Q. Did you work your normal day [9] shift? [10] A. Yes. [11] Q. That Wednesday, January second, [12] going into January third, who worked the night [13] shift? Do you recall? [14] A. Bob Evans. [15] Q. What time did your shift end [16] that particular day? [17] A. Seven. [18] Q. After your shift did you leave [19] the bar? [20] A. No. [21] Q. What did you do? [22] A. Drank. [23] Q. You stayed at the bar and [24] drank? [25] A. Yes. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 29 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. And I think at seven o'clock, [3] that's when the number comes out too as well? [4] A. Yes. [5] Q. Mr. Mooney, how long did you [6] stay at the bar that particular after your [7] shift finished at seven o'clock? [8] A. All night. [9] Q. And when you say all night, up [10] until closing? [11] A. Yes. Longer than that. [12] Q. And we'll get to that, Mr. [13] Mooney. But did there come a point in time [14] during that evening when you were thinking [15] about leaving the bar and going home? [16] A. Yes, 10:30. [17] Q. And where were you going and [18] how were you going to get there? [19] A. I was calling a cab. Bob Evans [20] called me a cab and I was going to get that [21] and, you know, take the cab home. [22] Q. Were you going to make any [23] stops? [24] A. No. [25] Q. And you were going to head Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 30 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] home. [3] A. Yes. [4] Q. Did you do that? [5] A. No. [6] Q. Why not? [7] A. John said he, John came in and [8] said he would give me a ride home. [9] Q. John who? [10] A. McLaughlin. [11] Q. Do you recall approximately, [12] Mr. Mooney, what time it was that John [13] McLaughlin came into the bar? [14] A. About 10:30. [15] Q. Okay. By the way, what was [16] John McLaughlin, what were his [17] responsibilities with McWhitey's? [18] A. Well, he was, you know, the [19] family and he would bring up. He would, you [20] know, bring money up for the beer order, you [21] know, Marusia, and then he'd bring the [22] paychecks up and all that, give it to me. [23] Q. Mr. Mooney, on paper who owned [24] that bar? [25] A. Marusia. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 31 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. And Marusia is her last name? [3] A. No. Her last name is [4] McLaughlin. [5] Q. Okay. And she is the on paper [6] owner. And what is her relationship to John [7] McLaughlin, the defendant? [8] A. Sister. [9] Q. But let me ask you this. Who [10] ran the day-to-day operations of the bar? Who [11] provided the money and the beer order? Was it [12] Marusia or was it John? [13] A. Well, John would hand me the [14] money but Marusia would, you know, would keep [15] track of it. [16] Q. Okay. And but on a daily basis [17] over the course of a week, how many times [18] would Marusia show up at the bar? [19] A. Maybe twice, once, you know. [20] Q. How many times a week would [21] John McLaughlin show up at the bar? [22] A. Maybe three, four. Maybe [23] three. I don't know. [24] Q. Let me direct your attention [25] again. He comes into the bar that night, Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 32 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 8 (page 29 - 32) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] January second going into third. Was the bar [3] crowded that particular night? [4] A. No. [5] Q. Did there come a point in time [6] when the bar slowed down later that evening? [7] A. It was slow all night. [8] Q. Okay. I want to direct your [9] attention to about 1:30, quarter of two, 1:45. [10] A. Yes. [11] Q. Did a patron by the name of [12] Seamus O'Neill come into the bar? [13] A. Yes. [14] Q. And what time do you remember, [15] Mr. Mooney, him coming into the bar? [16] A. Around 1:30, quarter of two, [17] something like that. [18] Q. When Mr. O'Neill came into the [19] bar who was present? [20] A. Me, Goob and John McLaughlin. [21] Q. Other than you and Goob, you're [22] talking about the night bartender? [23] A. Goob, yes. [24] Q. Do you know what his real name [25] is? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 33 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] A. Yeah, Bob Evans. [3] Q. Other than you, Ray Mooney, Bob [4] Evans and John McLaughlin, was there anyone [5] else in the bar when Seamus came into the bar? [6] A. No. [7] Q. Tell us about that, Mr. Mooney. [8] Seamus came into the bar? [9] A. Yes. [10] Q. Where did he sit? What did he [11] do? [12] A. He sat down at the end of the [13] bar. [14] Q. How did he come in? Do you [15] remember what door he came in? [16] A. The front door. [17] Q. Do you have to be buzzed in? [18] A. Buzzed, yes. [19] Q. He come in and he sat down. By [20] the way, prior to that, now we're talking [21] about January third, the early morning hours [22] of January third of 2008. Prior to Seamus [23] O'Neill coming into the bar, did you know him? [24] Had you met him before? [25] A. Yes. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 34 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. And on how many occasions, do [3] you recall? [4] A. Maybe, well, you know, maybe [5] four times, something like that. [6] Q. Mr. Mooney, do you recall the [7] last time that you saw the victim in this case [8] Seamus O'Neill prior to the night that he [9] walked into McWhitey's? [10] A. Yes, I do. [11] Q. And when was that? [12] A. That was about eleven months [13] prior to that, or ten months. You know, I [14] can't vaguely remember. He came in the bar in [15] the morning around 11:30. [16] Q. You're talking about ten months [17] before, ten or eleven months before. [18] A. Yeah. Came in 11:30 in the [19] morning. He had a dog with him. And then I [20] said you have to leave because, you know, [21] we're, the lunch, you know, we might have a [22] lunch crowd. You can't have a dog in the bar [23] then. [24] Q. Okay. Prior to your asking [25] Seamus O'Neill to leave the bar, did you serve Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 35 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] him any drinks? [3] A. Yes. [4] Q. And do you remember that eleven [5] months prior how many times drinks he had? [6] A. About two. [7] Q. And then at some point in time [8] you asked him. It was getting close to [9] lunchtime. You asked him to leave the bar? [10] A. Yes. [11] Q. Did he leave the bar? [12] A. Yes. [13] Q. Were there any problems between [14] you and Seamus at that point? [15] A. No. He just said he'll never [16] come in this bar again. [17] Q. Okay. All right. But he left [18] the bar? [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. That was the last time you saw [21] him prior to him coming into the bar on that [22] early morning hours of January third? [23] A. Was that the last time? [24] Q. Yeah, prior to him coming in [25] the last time on January third of 2008. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 36 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 9 (page 33 - 36) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] A. I saw him down another bar. [3] Q. Okay. And when was that? [4] A. Well, maybe about a year. I [5] don't know. A year later or so. [6] Q. Okay. And what bar did you see [7] him in? [8] A. I saw him in Cheers. [9] Q. Did you interact with him? Did [10] you say hi? [11] A. Yes. [12] Q. Were there any problems? [13] A. None. I was back there smoking [14] a cigarette. [15] Q. And you saw him? [16] A. Yeah. [17] Q. What did you say? [18] A. He just said, "I like you, [19] Moon, but I'll never go in this bar again." [20] Q. Talking about your bar. [21] A. Yes. [22] Q. Okay. But were there any [23] problems between the two of you? [24] A. No. [25] Q. By the way, did Seamus O'Neill? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 37 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] You indicated and told the ladies and [3] gentlemen of the jury that you took the, as [4] we'll refer to it, the action in the bar, the [5] numbers, correct? [6] A. Yes. [7] Q. Illegal lottery. Did Seamus [8] O'Neill ever, ever play any numbers with you? [9] A. No. [10] Q. Did Seamus O'Neill ever, ever [11] bet any horses with you? [12] A. Yes. [13] Q. When was that? [14] A. I don't know exact date. I [15] don't know the exact date when he bet. [16] Q. About how many? When was that [17] in relation to his death? [18] A. He might have bet one or two [19] races. [20] Q. Like how? When? In relation [21] to his death, when was the last time? [22] A. It might have been six, seven [23] months before. [24] Q. Okay. Well, you indicated that [25] he was in the bar, the last time he was in Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 38 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] McWhitey's was about eleven months before. [3] A. Yeah. [4] Q. So was it before that? [5] A. Yes. [6] Q. Okay. So it was in excess of [7] maybe a year before? [8] A. Yes. [9] Q. Did he ever play any football [10] with you? [11] A. No. [12] Q. Did he ever bet any, any other [13] type of illegal lottery with you? [14] A. No. [15] Q. On January second going into [16] January third, did you owe Seamus any money? [17] A. No. [18] Q. Did he have any bets that she [19] placed with you outstanding? [20] A. No. [21] Q. Seamus walks into the bar on [22] January third. Tell us about that, Mr. [23] Mooney. Where does he sit? What does he do? [24] A. He sat down at the end of the [25] bar as the door was opened, you know, to where Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 39 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] he got buzzed in. He sat on the end of the [3] bar. [4] Q. And did you see him? [5] A. Yes. [6] Q. Did he see you? [7] A. Yes. [8] Q. What did you say? [9] A. I said, you know, hi. I might [10] even went up and shook his hand. [11] Q. Okay. So there were no [12] problems between the two of you. [13] A. No. [14] Q. You didn't owe him any money. [15] A. No. [16] Q. He didn't owe you any money. [17] A. None. [18] Q. He sits down at the bar. Does [19] he drink? [20] A. Yes. [21] Q. Goober serves him, Bob Evans? [22] A. Yes. [23] Q. Do you know how many drinks he [24] had sitting down there at the end of the bar? [25] A. Maybe two, you know. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 40 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 10 (page 37 - 40) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. Then what happens, Mr. Mooney? [3] By the way, where were you seated? [4] A. I'm sitting down the other end [5] on the Mercer Street side. [6] Q. On the side where the beer box? [7] The jurors will get a chance to see some [8] pictures. [9] A. No, the other side. [10] Q. Okay. Where was the defendant [11] John McLaughlin? Where was he seated? [12] A. He was sitting by the beer box. [13] Q. Tell us what happened. Seamus [14] is in there. He has a couple drinks. What [15] goes on? What happens? [16] A. He got up and walked and [17] started talking to John. [18] Q. He got up out of his seat? [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. And where did he walk do? [21] A. Where John was sitting. [22] Q. And how close to? When you say [23] John, John McLaughlin? [24] A. Yes. [25] Q. How close to John McLaughlin? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 41 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Where did he sit? The seat next to him? Two [3] seats away? [4] A. No. He just sat next to him. [5] Q. And what were they doing? [6] A. They were talking. [7] Q. Did you see any problems? [8] A. None. [9] Q. And according to you, you're [10] seated right across from them, right? [11] A. Yes. [12] Q. How long did this conversation? [13] I know you're not staring at your watch, Mr. [14] Mooney, but about how long did this [15] conversation last? [16] A. I don't know. Maybe an hour. [17] They actually, they was level of the bar. [18] They actually were, might have sat down on the [19] ledge of the bar. [20] Q. Sat down on the ledge of the [21] bar? [22] A. Like the foot, the foot thing, [23] and whatever they want to talk. They were [24] talking about something and I don't know what [25] they were talking about. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 42 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. Okay. But were they sitting at [3] the bar? [4] A. They were. They were sitting [5] at the bar. And then for some reason they [6] went down and started talking. [7] Q. Okay. [8] A. So I, you know, I didn't want. [9] I didn't hear it or whatever it was. [10] Q. Did you think that was unusual? [11] A. Yeah. [12] Q. So what happened? Did they [13] eventually get up from this crouched position? [14] Did they get back in their seats? [15] A. Yes. [16] Q. When they got back in their [17] seats were they still talking? [18] A. Yes. [19] Q. No problems up to this point, [20] right? [21] A. No. [22] Q. What then happens, Mr. Mooney? [23] Does a problem develop between them? What do [24] you see John do? Do you hear any argument? [25] What happens? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 43 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] A. John got up and went behind the [3] bar. [4] Q. John who? [5] A. McLaughlin. [6] Q. He got up out of his seat? [7] A. Yes. [8] Q. Was Seamus still seated next to [9] him? [10] A. Yes. [11] Q. And what was the conversation [12] about prior to John getting up? [13] A. I don't know. [14] Q. Did you hear any exchange of [15] arguments or? [16] A. No. [17] Q. Loud words? [18] A. No. [19] Q. You're seated right across from [20] them, correct? [21] A. Yes. [22] Q. And you've been working for [23] John for how many years? [24] A. Four, I think I said. [25] Q. Okay. And John gets up from Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 44 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 11 (page 41 - 44) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] the seat and what? By the way, was there any [3] loud music playing that night? [4] A. There was some music. It [5] wasn't real loud. [6] Q. Okay. So you could hear what [7] was going on in the bar. [8] A. The music. [9] Q. You could hear the music, but [10] could also hear conversation? Could you or [11] no? [12] A. I didn't hear because they were [13] stooped behind the bar, the ledge of the bar. [14] Q. But when you said John got up [15] to go behind the bar, they were both seated in [16] their seats, correct? [17] A. Yes. [18] Q. Seamus was seated at the bar, [19] fair? [20] A. Yes. [21] Q. And John was seated at the bar. [22] A. Yes. [23] Q. Tell us what John does. He [24] gets up from the seat. Where does he go? [25] A. Behind the bar. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 45 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. And where behind the bar does [3] he go? [4] A. The corner. [5] Q. And what does he do when he [6] goes to the corner of the bar? [7] A. He got a baseball bat. [8] Q. Did you see what kind of [9] baseball bat it was? [10] A. Aluminum. [11] Q. What did he do with this [12] aluminum baseball bat? Where did he go after [13] he went to the corner behind the bar with the [14] bat? What did he do? [15] A. He walked back where he was [16] sitting and hit Seamus with the baseball bat. [17] Q. Where did he hit Seamus with [18] the baseball bat? [19] A. His head, his arms, I guess, [20] you know. [21] Q. You indicated a motion right [22] there. You put your right arm up? [23] A. Yeah. [24] Q. Did you see Seamus do that? [25] A. Yeah. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 46 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] THE COURT: Indicating for the [3] record the arm in front of the face. [4] BY MR. CONROY: [5] Q. Did Seamus attempt to block the [6] baseball bat, sir? [7] A. Yes. [8] Q. What did John McLaughlin do? [9] Can you describe for the ladies and gentlemen [10] of the jury how it was that the defendant John [11] McLaughlin hit Seamus O'Neill with the [12] baseball bat? [13] A. How did he do it? Like that, [14] you know. [15] Q. Indicating for the record, Your [16] Honor, an over-the-head strike. Correct? Is [17] that correct? [18] A. Yes. [19] Q. How many times did you see the [20] defendant John McLaughlin hit Seamus O'Neill [21] with the baseball bat? [22] A. About five or six. [23] Q. How hard, Mr. Mooney, as best [24] you can describe with, you know, in the [25] English language, how hard was John McLaughlin Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 47 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] hitting Seamus O'Neill with the baseball bat [3] when he hit him five or six times? [4] A. He hit him hard. [5] Q. And when Mr. Mooney says hard, [6] what do you mean? What does Ray Mooney mean [7] by saying he hit him hard? [8] A. Well, he was striking him with [9] the baseball bat. How hard he was hitting [10] him, you know, I -- [11] Q. Well, you described it as hard, [12] Mr. Mooney. I don't want to put words in your [13] mouth. But when the ladies and gentlemen hear [14] you say he hit him hard five or six times, [15] what do you mean? [16] A. Well, he wasn't knighting him, [17] you know. He was hitting him hard, you know, [18] like striking him with it. You know? How [19] hard, I can't. I can't. I don't know how, [20] you know. [21] Q. As best you can tell, where on [22] Seamus O'Neill's body was the defendant [23] striking him with that bat? Where was he [24] hitting Seamus? Like where on his body? [25] A. In the head and in his arms, in Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 48 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 12 (page 45 - 48) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] his head, yeah. [3] Q. Eventually did Seamus fall to [4] the floor? [5] A. Yes. [6] Q. By the way, as best you can [7] estimate, do you know how old Seamus O'Neill [8] was back then? [9] A. He was around my age. [10] Q. And you were how old back then? [11] A. Well, it was four years ago? I [12] guess I was sixty-one, sixty-two. [13] Q. How old was John McLaughlin [14] back then? [15] A. I'd say around thirty-eight, [16] forty. [17] Q. What if anything was John [18] McLaughlin saying when he was striking Seamus? [19] A. He didn't say anything. [20] Q. What was Seamus saying? [21] A. He was just blocking the [22] strikes. [23] Q. You didn't hear Seamus say [24] anything at all? [25] A. No. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 49 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. Where were you seated when [3] you're watching this? [4] A. Across the way from them. [5] Q. Right across from the bar, [6] right? [7] A. Yeah. [8] Q. And if we can use me, pretend [9] I'm Seamus. About how far? Pretending I'm [10] Seamus, you're sitting in the bar. You're [11] facing this, correct? [12] A. Yes. [13] Q. Where you're seated, you're [14] facing. About how many feet? Tell me. [15] Pretend I'm Seamus. Where am I seated? How [16] far away? Tell me when to stop or go back. [17] A. No. Back a little. Whatever [18] the width of the bar was, that's where Seamus [19] was. [20] Q. Okay. Right across the bar. [21] You had a direct view. [22] A. Yeah. [23] Q. Anything blocking your view? [24] A. No. [25] THE COURT: Was that the Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 50 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] distance, sir? [3] THE WITNESS: Yes. [4] THE COURT: Right here? [5] THE WITNESS: Yeah, about that. [6] THE COURT: About between [7] twelve and fifteen feet. [8] MR. CONROY: Fair enough. [9] BY MR. CONROY: [10] Q. By the way, up to that point in [11] time, did you hear Seamus O'Neill raise his [12] voice, Mr. Mooney? [13] A. No. [14] Q. Did you see Seamus O'Neill ever [15] pull a gun? [16] A. No. [17] Q. Did you ever see Seamus O'Neill [18] ever pull any kind of weapon out from him? [19] A. No. [20] Q. And just so it's clear, when [21] you're watching this, you're seated right [22] across from Mr. O'Neill and the defendant John [23] McLaughlin. [24] A. Yes. [25] Q. Where, if you can, where at the Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 51 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] time that Mr. O'Neill is struck by the [3] defendant, where was Goob, Bob Evans? [4] A. Behind the bar. [5] Q. What if anything did you [6] attempt to do? [7] A. I didn't do nothing. [8] Q. Why? [9] A. I was scared. I didn't know [10] what was going on. [11] Q. What were you scared of? [12] A. Well, -- [13] Q. Tell us. [14] A. Apparently, something was [15] wrong. I was scared. I didn't want to get [16] hit with no baseball bat. [17] Q. Did Goob, did Bob Evans attempt [18] to do anything? [19] A. No. [20] Q. Mr. Mooney, do you recall what [21] then happens? Do you recall? What do you see [22] at this point when Seamus falls off? By the [23] way, after he was struck, could you see him? [24] Was he still seated in his chair slumped or [25] where was he? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 52 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 13 (page 49 - 52) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] A. I think when he fell, he fell [3] down. [4] Q. And could you see him laying on [5] the floor from where you were? [6] A. Yeah, and told to go upstairs. [7] Q. What happened? After the [8] defendant struck Mr. O'Neill five or six [9] times, what did you do, Mr. Mooney? What did [10] you do? [11] A. I got, John says go upstairs [12] and -- [13] Q. What exact words did he say to [14] you? [15] A. Go upstairs. And I got a [16] couple beers and a fifth of Irish Mist or it [17] was a fifth of vodka and I went upstairs, me [18] and Goob. [19] Q. What did he tell Goob to do? [20] A. Go upstairs. [21] Q. Did he tell you why he wanted [22] you upstairs? [23] A. No. [24] Q. Tell us, Mr. Mooney, what was [25] going on in your head at that time? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 53 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] A. I don't know. [3] Q. Were you scared? [4] A. Yes. [5] Q. Why? Tell us why. We have to [6] know why. [7] A. Well, the person got hit with a [8] baseball bat. [9] Q. Were you ever prior to your [10] going upstairs, did you ever hear Seamus [11] screaming for help or saying anything at all? [12] A. No. [13] Q. You weren't able to hear. He [14] didn't say anything that you could hear. [15] A. No. [16] Q. Did you call 911? [17] A. No. [18] Q. Why not, Mr. Mooney? [19] A. Because I was scared. [20] Q. Scared of who? Scared of who? [21] A. John. [22] Q. To the best of your [23] recollection -- [24] A. Or -- [25] Q. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Go Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 54 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] ahead. [3] A. Or, you know, or scared of [4] Seamus or, you know. [5] Q. Seamus was laying on the floor? [6] A. Yeah. Well, you said why [7] didn't I call 911. [8] Q. Right. I'm asking, why didn't [9] you call 911? [10] A. Yeah. [11] Q. I want to know why. I'm just [12] wondering, Mr. Mooney. Why did you not call [13] 911? [14] A. I was scared. I didn't want to [15] get, you know, involved in nothing. [16] Q. To the best of your memory, did [17] you see whether or not Goob called 911, Bob [18] Evans? [19] A. I believe he did not. [20] Q. Okay. [21] A. He went upstairs too. [22] Q. McLaughlin told him to go [23] upstairs? [24] A. Yes. [25] Q. When you go upstairs, Mr. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 55 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Mooney, what do you do? [3] A. I was pouring a nice couple [4] shots of whiskey and a couple beers and wolfed [5] them right down. [6] Q. And why did you do that? And I [7] know it seems like silly questions. I know [8] these seem like incredibly silly questions, [9] but I have to ask them. But why were you [10] doing that, Mr. Mooney? [11] A. Because I was nervous. [12] Q. About what? [13] A. Well, Seamus getting hit with [14] the baseball bat. [15] Q. You go upstairs. By the way, [16] the second floor, tell us. You go upstairs. [17] And just so it's clear, other than yourself [18] and Goob who have just been told to go [19] upstairs, other than you two and obviously [20] Seamus and John, anyone else in the bar? [21] A. No. [22] Q. You go upstairs. Tell us a [23] little bit about the upstairs, Mr. Mooney. [24] Was there a bar up there? [25] A. Yes. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 56 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 14 (page 53 - 56) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. And is that a bar that's [3] typically open for customers, i.e., you have [4] liquor there and cans of beer? [5] A. No. A lot of times it was for [6] rental and all that, you know. That was [7] special occasions, the bar. Say there was a [8] big football game or something. It would be [9] on, you know. They would put a bartender or [10] special occasions or something, you know. [11] Q. Okay. So there typically would [12] be no cans of beer up there, correct? [13] A. Yes. [14] Q. So if there was any beer up [15] there, you would have to bring it up or one of [16] your. [17] A. Well, they did have a box. [18] Now, that was full with beer. [19] Q. Okay. [20] A. Yeah. But cans they usually [21] didn't take up there. [22] Q. Fair enough. [23] A. Unless you ran a party and they [24] wanted cans. Then they would have it. [25] Q. So you go upstairs. You take Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 57 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] how many cans of beer? [3] A. About four or five. [4] Q. Now, when you go over to get, [5] now, who got the cases of, the cans? The [6] ladies and gentlemen have seen the [7] photographs. But who went over to the? Did [8] you get them out of the beer case? [9] A. Yes. [10] Q. When you went, who got them out [11] of the beer case? You? [12] A. Yes. [13] Q. When you went over to the beer [14] case where was Seamus? [15] A. His back was against, on the [16] other wall. [17] Q. On the wall closest to the beer [18] case. [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. When you went over to get those [21] cans of beer to go upstairs, was Seamus, could [22] you see whether or not he was moving at all? [23] Was his body moving? [24] A. No. [25] Q. Mr. Mooney, you go upstairs. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 58 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Tell us about that. I think you indicated you [3] went up there with Goob, Bob Evans? [4] A. Yes. [5] Q. Tell us about that, Mr. Mooney. [6] What happens? You go up there. Where do you [7] sit? What do you do? What are you thinking? [8] A. We're, I don't know, about four [9] seats in or something, you know. We were [10] sitting at the bar up there, about four from [11] the corner, four seats down. [12] Q. Okay. And what are you doing, [13] Mr. Mooney? I think you indicated you're [14] drinking? [15] A. Yes. [16] Q. Wolfing some drinks down? [17] A. Yes. [18] Q. To the best of your [19] recollection, what is Goob doing, Bob Evans? [20] A. He's drinking. [21] Q. Are you saying anything to him? [22] Is he saying anything to you? [23] A. No. I says this ain't good, [24] you know. [25] Q. That's an understatement. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 59 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] A. Yeah. [3] Q. What then happens? While [4] you're up there, where is the defendant John [5] McLaughlin at? [6] A. Downstairs. [7] Q. At any point in time, Mr. [8] Mooney, did the defendant John McLaughlin ever [9] come upstairs? [10] A. Yes. [11] Q. Tell us when that was, [12] approximately, and what he did when he came [13] upstairs. [14] A. It was about ten minutes later. [15] He got a drink. And he says, "I think I [16] killed the man." [17] Q. He said, "I think I killed the [18] man"? [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. What did you say? [21] A. "No shit." [22] Q. What if anything did Goob say? [23] A. He just, you know, made a face [24] and said practically the same thing, you know. [25] I don't know verbatim or something like that. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 60 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 15 (page 57 - 60) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. After he, the defendant, sits [3] down, he had a drink? [4] A. Yes. [5] Q. Do you remember what he had? [6] It's not that critical, but if you remember. [7] A. It might have been Irish Mist. [8] Q. How long does the defendant [9] stay up there on the second floor after he [10] tells you "I think I killed the man"? [11] A. About fifteen, twenty minutes, [12] I guess, you know. I didn't, I'm not a clock [13] watcher. [14] Q. I know, and I know you're not [15] looking at your watch and I know my questions [16] may seem a bit silly. But he stayed up there [17] for a short period of time? [18] A. I'd say fifteen, twenty [19] minutes. [20] Q. And where then did he go? [21] A. Where did he go? [22] Q. Yeah. Where did John go after [23] he stayed, he spent some time up there? How [24] long was he up there? [25] A. About fifteen, twenty minutes. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 61 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. Where did he go after that? [3] A. He went downstairs. [4] Q. Did he ever come back up or did [5] you ever go downstairs again? [6] A. Yes. I went down and got a [7] couple more beers. [8] Q. When you went downstairs and [9] got a couple more beers, from the same beer [10] case? [11] A. Yes. [12] Q. Could you see Seamus's body [13] from there? [14] A. Yes. [15] Q. Where was Seamus's body? [16] A. Against the wall. [17] Q. Same place you had seen it [18] earlier when you went upstairs? [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. Right kind of parallel to the [21] beer box. [22] A. Yes. [23] Q. At that point in time, Mr. [24] Mooney, from what you could see, did Seamus [25] appear to either be moving or saying anything Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 62 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] or attempting to say anything? [3] A. No. [4] Q. What did you then do? You get [5] a few beers. [6] A. Went back upstairs. [7] Q. When you went downstairs was [8] John down there, the defendant John [9] McLaughlin? [10] A. No. [11] Q. Was anyone else downstairs? [12] A. No. [13] Q. So you go back upstairs. [14] A. Yes. [15] Q. Do you know where John was at [16] that point in time? [17] A. I think he was sitting where [18] he, when he first came up. He was sitting [19] where he was. [20] Q. Oh. So he was still upstairs. [21] A. Yes. [22] Q. When you went upstairs after [23] grabbing your beers and going back upstairs, [24] did you say anything to John? [25] A. I says I think he's still Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 63 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] alive. [3] Q. Who did you say that to? [4] A. John. [5] Q. Why did you say that? [6] A. Because I went down and got [7] more beer and as I was shutting the box, beer [8] box, Seamus' body moved toward, you know, just [9] kind of keeled over. [10] Q. And that made you think that [11] maybe he was still alive? [12] A. Yes. [13] Q. When you said that to John, [14] what if anything did he then do? [15] A. He went downstairs. [16] Q. And could you hear anything [17] occur while you were upstairs? [18] A. No. [19] Q. Are you sure? Did you hear any [20] sounds? [21] MR. McMONAGLE: Objection, [22] Judge, asked and answered. [23] THE COURT: I'll allow it. [24] Overruled. [25] BY MR. CONROY: Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 64 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 16 (page 61 - 64) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. Mr. Mooney, did you hear any [3] sounds when you told John I think he might [4] still be alive, did you hear any sounds after [5] you told John McLaughlin that and he went back [6] downstairs? [7] A. Uh, -- [8] Q. What sound? What if anything [9] did you hear? [10] A. It was like a noise, a baseball [11] bat. [12] Q. Describe for the ladies and [13] gentlemen of the jury what noise, Mr. Mooney, [14] that you heard. [15] A. It was sound, like, you know. [16] There was moving around, you know. It was [17] like, you know, like Seamus got hit. It was [18] the same noise I heard earlier. [19] Q. Earlier when? [20] A. When John hit Seamus. [21] Q. Mr. Mooney, did you at any [22] point, and I know I've asked this question [23] once, but after hearing that, did either you [24] or Goob, did anyone attempt to get any aid, [25] any fire rescue, any paramedics, anybody to Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 65 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] help Seamus? [3] A. No. [4] Q. You go back upstairs, Mr. [5] Mooney. What then happens, sir? Tell the [6] ladies and gentlemen of the jury while you're [7] up there. You're up there. Is Bob Evans [8] still up there? [9] A. Yes. [10] Q. Tell us what goes on while [11] you're upstairs. [12] A. I just kept on drinking. [13] Q. Does the defendant John [14] McLaughlin ever come up again, if you can [15] recall? [16] A. He might have. [17] Q. Did anyone else, by the way, in [18] addition to yourself and Goob, did anyone else [19] ever come upstairs that you recall? [20] A. No. [21] Q. At any point during after you [22] go down this second time and grab these beers, [23] you go back downstairs -- well, strike that. [24] Did you ever go back downstairs again? [25] A. Yes. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 66 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. Okay. And when you go back [3] downstairs, do you see anyone else down there [4] on the first floor? [5] A. No. [6] Q. Who's down there? [7] A. Just Seamus. [8] Q. And where is Seamus? [9] A. Laying on the floor. [10] Q. Same position? [11] A. No. [12] Q. Where is he? [13] A. He's laying flat on the floor. [14] Q. His body was moved? [15] A. Not at that, no. He looked [16] like he moved when I closed the beer box. It [17] looked like his body just keeled over. [18] Q. Okay. And let me ask you. [19] When you came down, that would be [20] approximately the third time you come [21] downstairs, was his body in that same [22] position? [23] A. Yeah. [24] Q. Did you observe any blood on [25] the floor? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 67 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] A. Yes. [3] Q. And where did you see the [4] blood, Mr. Mooney, when you came down? You go [5] to the beer box on at least one, maybe two [6] occasions. Where is it that you see the [7] blood? [8] A. The right-hand side of the beer [9] box, where Seamus was laying. [10] Q. Was anybody attempting to clean [11] that up? [12] A. No. [13] Q. Did you ever see anybody [14] attempt to clean that up? [15] A. Yes. [16] Q. Who did you see cleaning up the [17] blood? [18] A. Sammy Toy. [19] Q. Do you see Sammy Toy in the [20] courtroom today? [21] A. Yes. [22] Q. Could you please point him out? [23] A. (Witness complies.) [24] Q. Indicating for the record the [25] witness has identified the defendant Samuel Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 68 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 17 (page 65 - 68) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Toy seated at defense counsel table. [3] THE COURT: So indicated. [4] BY MR. CONROY: [5] Q. Let me ask you a question, Mr. [6] Mooney. Walk us through this. When is it [7] that you first see Sammy Toy inside the bar? [8] A. I mean, you know, I don't look [9] at a clock, you know. [10] Q. No, and that's an unfair [11] question. I'll rephrase it. Strike that. [12] Let me rephrase it. You indicated that you go [13] downstairs. You get some more beer. You see [14] Seamus. [15] A. Then I went down again and got [16] some more beer and then I saw Sammy. [17] Q. By the way, Sammy Toy and John [18] McLaughlin, are they friends? [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. Do you know how long they've [21] been friends? [22] A. For at least twenty years, [23] maybe more than that. I think they grew up [24] together. [25] Q. Did Sammy Toy work in the bar? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 69 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] A. Yes. [3] Q. How often would he work in the [4] bar and what were his duties? [5] A. He cleaned up, you know, [6] cleaned the bar up, and he also worked in the [7] kitchen once in a while, helped out, you know, [8] washed dishes. [9] Q. By the way, when Sammy Toy came [10] to the bar, back then, I don't want to know an [11] address, I don't want any addresses on anyone, [12] but did you know where Sammy Toy lived back [13] then? [14] A. Yes. [15] Q. Did he own or did he rent a [16] property? [17] A. He rented. [18] Q. Do you know who his landlord [19] was? Who owned the property he was renting? [20] A. John, John McLaughlin. [21] Q. Let me ask you a question, Mr. [22] Mooney. When you come downstairs, when you [23] first see Sammy Toy, where is he in the bar? [24] A. He's by the beer box. [25] Q. And what is he doing? Do you Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 70 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] recall what it was he was doing? [3] A. He was pulling Seamus. [4] Q. Describe for the ladies and [5] gentlemen of the jury how it was that Sammy [6] Toy was pulling Seamus. Where was he pulling [7] him from and what part of his body was he [8] pulling? [9] A. He was pulling his wrists and [10] sliding him and then there was a blue tarp on [11] the floor, you know, around the bar. [12] Q. When you say a blue tarp, can [13] you just for the ladies and gentlemen just [14] describe what this looked like? [15] A. It looked like a piece of, [16] something like a throw cloth or, you know, if [17] you're painting, or something like that. It [18] could be a drop cloth, like. [19] Q. And exactly how was Sammy Toy? [20] How was he grabbing Seamus? By what part of [21] his body? [22] A. His hands. [23] Q. And he was dragging him from [24] his hands? [25] A. Yeah, like that, yeah. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 71 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. Where was John McLaughlin at [3] this time? [4] A. He came down and he was helping [5] Sammy. [6] Q. When you saw this, -- [7] A. I went back upstairs. [8] Q. Let me ask you a question, Mr. [9] Mooney. Did you ever think about just leaving [10] at that point? [11] A. No. [12] Q. Why not? [13] A. I wanted more drinks. [14] Q. Did you ever, and obviously you [15] never called 911, correct? [16] A. No, I did not. [17] Q. What happened, Mr. Mooney? You [18] go back upstairs. What happens? You're up [19] there. Is Bob Evans still up there? [20] A. Yes. [21] Q. Tell us what happens while [22] you're up there. [23] A. We're drinking, you know. I [24] says this ain't good. [25] Q. Did you, when you were Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 72 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 18 (page 69 - 72) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] downstairs at any point, did you ever see [3] anyone attempting to clean up downstairs? [4] Well, I think you indicated there was some [5] blood from -- [6] A. Seamus, yeah. [7] Q. Did you see anyone attempting [8] to clean that blood up? [9] A. Sammy. [10] Q. And how was he doing that? [11] A. With a mop and bucket. [12] Q. What do you then do? You go [13] back upstairs, Mr. Mooney. What happens? [14] A. I was sitting, sat there and [15] drank. [16] Q. Now, how long did you sit there [17] and drink? [18] A. Pretty long. Pretty long time. [19] Then I think I fell asleep. [20] Q. Mr. Mooney, that Thursday, is [21] that a day that the bar typically would be [22] open? [23] A. Yes. [24] Q. Did you open the bar as you [25] customarily? By the way, let me ask you a Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 73 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] question. [3] A. I didn't leave the bar. [4] Q. You never left the bar. [5] A. Yes. [6] Q. But customarily, typically, you [7] opened McWhitey's on a Thursday morning at [8] about what time? [9] A. About eleven, quarter of [10] eleven. [11] Q. Did you open the bar, open the [12] doors or open for business that day? [13] A. Yes. [14] Q. At what time did you do that? [15] A. I'd say it was around eleven [16] o'clock. [17] Q. Where was Seamus's body? [18] A. Well, I don't know, at that [19] time. [20] Q. Did you see where his body was? [21] A. Downstairs. [22] Q. Who put the body downstairs, if [23] you know? [24] A. I don't know. [25] Q. How did you see that? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 74 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] A. Well, you go down. You bring [3] ice up. You see the body there. [4] Q. Well, was the bar open for [5] business that day? [6] A. I opened it. [7] Q. Did anyone come in? [8] A. There was a couple people came [9] in. [10] Q. What then happened, Mr. Mooney? [11] Did you ever go home that day? [12] A. Yes. I went home around about [13] eleven. No. About one or two o'clock, you [14] know. Between one to three. Like I say, I'm [15] no clock watcher. [16] Q. Fair enough. Well, when you go [17] home, you're the day bartender, right? [18] A. Yes. I says I'm getting out of [19] here. [20] Q. Okay. So when you left, was [21] the bar opened? [22] A. As far as I know, it was. [23] Q. Who was in the bar when you [24] left? [25] A. John McLaughlin, Sammy Toy. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 75 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. Was there anyone else in the [3] bar that you can recall? [4] A. The guy that took me home, Don [5] Johnson. [6] Q. He took you home? [7] A. Yes. [8] Q. But you, the day bartender, did [9] not stick around. [10] A. No. [11] Q. Was Sammy Toy a bartender? [12] A. No. [13] Q. Was John McLaughlin a [14] bartender? [15] A. I don't know who went behind [16] the bar to take care of business, you know, [17] whatever business, you know. [18] Q. You got out of there. [19] A. I just got out of there. I [20] said I had enough, I'm going. [21] Q. Where did you go? I don't want [22] to know where you live, but where did you go [23] and what did you do? [24] A. This fellow drove me home and I [25] went home. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 76 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 19 (page 73 - 76) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. Do you ever that particular [3] Thursday, Mr. Mooney, did you ever go back to [4] the bar that day? [5] A. No. [6] Q. At any point between when you [7] leave at 1:30ish to -- [8] A. No. [9] Q. At all. [10] A. No. [11] Q. On Thursday night, who would be [12] the typical, the Thursday night typically back [13] then, who was the Thursday night bartender? [14] A. I believe it was Tommy Moore. [15] Q. Do you know whether or not he [16] worked that night or opened the bar? [17] A. No, because I just went home [18] and went to bed. I was pretty, pretty [19] smashed. [20] Q. Mr. Mooney, I want to direct [21] your attention to Friday, the following day, [22] January fourth, 2008. Did you go to the bar? [23] A. Yes. [24] Q. What time did you arrive at the [25] bar? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 77 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] A. Around quarter of eleven. [3] Q. When you arrived at the bar, [4] Mr. Mooney, what was your purpose that day? [5] What were you going to do? [6] A. Well, open the bar. [7] Q. Okay. And when you go to the [8] bar, what are you doing? You go in. What are [9] you doing? Tell us about when you first get [10] to the bar. You unlock the door. You go in. [11] Do you lock the door? What do you do? [12] A. Well, you got to open the door [13] from the side. [14] Q. Okay. [15] A. So I opened the bar, you know, [16] went into the register, you know, see if my [17] money is right. [18] Q. Okay. [19] A. And we carried like a two [20] hundred dollar bank. [21] Q. Okay. While you were getting [22] ready to open up that particular day, did [23] anyone approach the bar and knock on the door, [24] ask you? What happened? Tell us about that [25] point. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 78 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] A. Yes. A linen guy came and [3] Seamus's family was outside. [4] Q. Tell us a little bit about [5] that. By the way, back then, John McLaughlin, [6] what kind of vehicle was he operating? [7] A. A brown. I never owned a car. [8] So a brown van. [9] Q. Tell us about Seamus's family [10] coming to the bar. Describe what happened [11] there, Mr. Mooney. [12] A. Yes. They says could -- [13] Q. How do they get your attention? [14] How do you see them? [15] A. Well, they're outside. They [16] like followed the linen guy in. [17] Q. Were they knocking? [18] A. Or Rick. Rick they followed [19] in. [20] Q. Did they knock on the door? [21] A. Yeah. [22] Q. And what did you do? [23] A. I pushed it open. [24] Q. You went outside? Did you [25] speak with them? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 79 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] A. No. I says we're not open yet. [3] Q. And what did they say? [4] A. They said we just want to come [5] in. He says we haven't seen our brother. I [6] think he says brother or uncle. His car is [7] across the street. [8] Q. Right. [9] A. He says can we come in and look [10] around. I says sure. [11] Q. By the way, how many family [12] members of Seamus O'Neill were outside, Mr. [13] Mooney, and confronted you, about? [14] A. About three or four, I think. [15] Q. While you were outside speaking [16] with Seamus O'Neill's family, did anyone drive [17] by the bar? [18] A. Did anybody drive by? [19] Q. Yeah. Did anybody? [20] A. It looked like John. [21] Q. John who? [22] A. McLaughlin. [23] Q. John McLaughlin. [24] A. In fact, the one of the [25] Seamus's family says that's him riding by Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 80 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 20 (page 77 - 80) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] there. [3] Q. And who did they point to? [4] A. The van. [5] Q. And whose van was it? Who was [6] driving it? [7] A. They said it was John. [8] Q. Well, did you get a chance to [9] look at him? [10] A. Yeah. [11] Q. Who was it, Mr. Mooney? [12] A. It was John then. [13] Q. While you're out there with [14] these three or four family members, right? [15] You're out in the front of the bar, right? [16] A. Yes. [17] Q. And you're out there with these [18] family members who, by the way, were they real [19] friendly to you or were they a little [20] agitated? If you could describe their [21] demeanor. [22] A. They were agitated. [23] Q. And they were agitaged and [24] wanted some answers from you, correct? [25] A. Yes. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 81 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. And this is in the front of the [3] property, in front of the bar, right? [4] A. Yes. [5] Q. Okay. And when they're [6] agitated and talking to you and the defendant [7] John McLaughlin drives by, where does he go? [8] Where does he park? Where is it that he [9] parked? [10] A. I don't know where he went. [11] Q. He didn't park and come over to [12] you? [13] A. No. [14] Q. Did he ever at any point, Mr. [15] Mooney, while you're confronting these people, [16] did he ever, John McLaughlin, ever park his [17] vehicle and come over to the bar? [18] A. No. They might have been [19] inside the bar. They might have been inside [20] the bar by the time. No. [21] Q. My point is, Mr. Mooney, I'll [22] rephrase the question. My question to you is [23] this. You make a good point. Mr. Mooney, did [24] you ever at any point in time see John [25] McLaughlin while you were outside pull his car Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 82 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] over? [3] A. I saw him rode by. [4] Q. Did you ever see him park his [5] vehicle? [6] A. No. [7] Q. When you eventually went inside [8] the bar with the family, did you ever see the [9] defendant John McLaughlin park his vehicle and [10] come in? [11] A. No. [12] Q. Was there anything that would [13] have prevented John McLaughlin from parking [14] his vehicle and walking into the bar? [15] A. No. [16] Q. Tell us about what happens, Mr. [17] Mooney. You're now, pick it up from there. [18] The family confronts you in front of the bar. [19] What are they saying to you? What are you [20] saying to them? Where do you go? What do you [21] do? [22] A. They said can we look around. [23] I said sure. I said go ahead. So they walked [24] around the bar and, you know, looked. And [25] then they, they said, can we go upstairs? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 83 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. What did you say? [3] A. I said yeah, go ahead. [4] Q. At that point in time, Mr. [5] Mooney, when Seamus O'Neill's family members [6] are in the bar, do you know where Seamus [7] O'Neill's body? I mean, you knew it was in [8] the basement, correct? [9] A. Yes. [10] Q. Do you know where his body is [11] at this time when you open up Friday? [12] A. No. [13] Q. Did you know his body was in [14] the basement? [15] A. No. [16] Q. Where did you think that Mr. [17] O'Neill's body was? [18] A. I thought it was gone away, you [19] know, somebody had picked it up or something [20] like that. [21] Q. And who, Mr. Mooney, who did [22] you think took Seamus O'Neill's body away? [23] A. I don't know. I guess it was [24] John and Sammy. I don't know. [25] Q. Did you know his body was in Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 84 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 21 (page 81 - 84) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] the bar that Friday morning? [3] A. No. [4] Q. Tell us what happens, Mr. [5] Mooney. [6] A. So the family, you know, walked [7] around and walked upstairs and did this. Then [8] they came downstairs and said can we look in [9] the basement. [10] Q. And what did you say? [11] A. I said sure. I went over, [12] pulled the trap door open and turn the light, [13] turned the lights on for them. [14] Q. And do you remember who it was, [15] what family members asked you that? [16] A. No. [17] Q. What did they do? [18] A. They went down. Then they saw [19] Seamus's body and a couple of them came up [20] crying. [21] Q. What did you do? [22] A. I went and got myself a nice [23] drink. [24] Q. And why did you do that? [25] A. I was scared. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 85 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. Did you ever go downstairs, Mr. [3] Mooney? [4] A. No. [5] Q. At that point in time? [6] A. No. I walked halfway down the [7] steps and looked and there his body was by the [8] steps. [9] Q. How close was Seamus's body? I [10] mean, you're familiar down in the basement. [11] Obviously you've been down there many times. [12] A. Yes. [13] Q. And you're a smoker, correct? [14] A. Yes. [15] Q. How many times had you been [16] down that basement to get beer? I mean, is it [17] a regular? Do you do it daily? [18] A. Oh, yeah. [19] Q. Okay. Had you been down the [20] basement that morning prior to the bar? [21] Prior to Mr. O'Neill's family coming into the [22] bar, had you been down there to get the beer [23] for the next day, for that day? [24] A. No. No. [25] Q. Mr. Mooney, let me ask you Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 86 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] this. I'm sorry. Go ahead. [3] A. I told the Seamus's family, I [4] says I'm not really open yet, you know, I got [5] to do the register and this and that. And I [6] didn't get time to go down to the bar, you [7] know. [8] Q. Let me ask you a question, Mr. [9] Mooney. When you go down half, I think you [10] indicated you go somewhat down the steps and [11] you see Seamus's body? [12] A. Yeah. [13] Q. And how was it? What part of [14] his body did you see or what was it? [15] A. I saw a blue tarp. [16] Q. Do you remember how close that [17] was to? Well, strike that. Is there an [18] entrance where the beer distributor would [19] slide beer down, a little sliding area? [20] A. Yeah. There's a Bilco door [21] outside. [22] Q. Bilco door. By that you mean [23] like a steel door? [24] A. Yeah, like a steel door or [25] cellar door, yeah. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 87 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. Got you. How close to those [3] Bilco doors was Seamus's body? [4] A. Close. It was like laying [5] almost on the steps, somewhat. [6] Q. Mr. Mooney, at that point in [7] time, what then happens? Seamus, there are [8] several family members in the bar? [9] A. Yes. [10] Q. What are they saying to you? [11] A. Well, I got myself another, you [12] know. I got myself a drink. I'm shook up. [13] I drank some, you know. And then the one guy [14] says, says to me, yeah, go ahead, have a [15] drink, this might be your last drink you'll [16] have. [17] Q. Mr. Mooney, did -- [18] A. And they threw a couple [19] ashtrays around. [20] Q. They were upset. [21] A. Yes. [22] Q. Were they asking you questions [23] about whether or not you had seen Seamus? [24] A. No. [25] Q. On that Wednesday night? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 88 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 22 (page 85 - 88) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] A. No. I said I didn't know his [3] body was downstairs or I wouldn't have opened [4] the door. I wouldn't have opened the door or [5] turned the lights on for them. [6] Q. Well, Mr. Mooney, did they ever [7] ask you if you knew what happened to their [8] brother? [9] A. No. [10] Q. Nobody ever asked you that? [11] A. No. The guy kept, one of the [12] brothers kept pointing their finger and saying [13] he did it, he said it. I said I didn't do it. [14] Q. Did you tell the -- [15] A. And then, you know, by that [16] time the police came. [17] Q. Did you tell -- [18] A. Then pandemonium broke out, you [19] know. [20] Q. Okay. Mr. Mooney, did you ever [21] tell the family who did it? Did you ever tell [22] them who was responsible for Seamus's death? [23] A. No. [24] Q. Why not? [25] A. You know, they didn't ask me. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 89 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] They just kept saying he did it, he did it. [3] And then one guy, you know, wanted to grab me [4] or something like that and the other brother [5] says yo, yo, don't, you know, don't do it. [6] Q. Well, eventually, people were [7] asking you what you knew, I mean, were they [8] not? [9] A. They didn't ask me. They [10] didn't ask me. [11] Q. Okay. And you didn't tell [12] them. You didn't tell them. [13] A. No. No. [14] Q. The police officers come? [15] A. Yes. [16] Q. You eventually go down to the [17] Homicide Unit? [18] A. Yes. They, well, I said I [19] poured another drink, and then when the police [20] came in they told me get behind the bar, no [21] more drinking. [22] Q. But, Mr. Mooney, would it be [23] fair to say that other than yourself, who's [24] the manager/bartender, other than yourself, [25] the other people that are in the bar prior to Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 90 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] the police arriving are Seamus's family [3] members? [4] A. Yes. [5] Q. There's no customers in there, [6] right? [7] A. No. No. Then this one guy [8] Rick came in. [9] Q. Tell me about that. Rick who? [10] A. I don't know his last name. We [11] call him Rick. You know, Rick. I don't know [12] his last name. [13] Q. Fair enough. What's his [14] connection to the bar, if any? [15] A. He helps in the kitchen, cooks, [16] and he might help me. It all depends if I had [17] a bad night the night before. He would come [18] and bring beer up for me or ice or anything. [19] Anything more or less I wanted him to do, he [20] would have done it. [21] Q. Okay. If I said a last name, [22] would it ring a bell? Or you don't know what [23] his last name was? [24] A. You can say his last name. [25] Q. Does the name Parkhurst ring a Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 91 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] bell? Rick Parkhurst? [3] A. Yeah. [4] Q. Richard Parkhurst? [5] A. I think it does. [6] Q. He lives a short distance from [7] the bar, not too far? [8] A. He used to live on Venango [9] Street, yes. But then he moved about two or [10] three times. Yes. [11] Q. By the way, Mr. Mooney, at any [12] point in time while you were at the bar that [13] morning, do you recall anybody by the name of [14] either Buddy Brearey or Ken Griffin, do you [15] recall either one of those two coming into the [16] bar? [17] A. No. I didn't see them. [18] Q. Did anyone have any keys to [19] drop off or anything? [20] A. Somebody did come and give me [21] the keys. I says, well, I don't want them, [22] they're not here. [23] Q. What were the keys for, Mr. [24] Mooney? [25] A. It was a dump truck outside. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 92 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 23 (page 89 - 92) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. Did you call to have that dump [3] truck come to the bar? [4] A. No. [5] Q. Did you know anything about [6] that dump truck coming to the bar? [7] A. No. No. Excuse me. [8] Q. Yes. [9] A. There was one other guy came [10] in. What the hell was his name? O'Reilly. [11] Q. And what's Reilly's first name? [12] A. I forget it right now. [13] Q. Let me back up. The person who [14] brought the, if you know, the person who [15] brought these keys for a dump truck, did you [16] recognize him? [17] A. No. [18] Q. Okay. But you didn't contact [19] him. [20] A. No. [21] Q. That's pretty clear. [22] A. Yes. [23] Q. Terry Reilly. [24] A. Yes. Terry. I'm sorry. [25] That's his name. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 93 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. Does that ring a bell, Terry? [3] A. Yes, Terry. [4] Q. Did you know Terry Reilly? [5] A. Yes. [6] Q. Was he a friend of the [7] defendant John McLaughlin's? [8] A. Yes. [9] Q. And how old back then, if you [10] can estimate, how old was Terry Reilly? [11] A. He's older than John, I [12] believe. [13] Q. Much older? Is he your age or [14] is he -- [15] A. No, he's not my age. In [16] between John's age and my age. [17] Q. By the way, Reilly came into [18] the bar. How close in time did Reilly, Terry [19] Reilly, come into the bar to this other fellow [20] who had a set of keys for a dump truck? [21] A. It's the same as, you know. [22] Like I said, I don't watch a clock. It was [23] simultaneously, in that. It was all [24] pendemonium broke out. I don't know. [25] Q. Mr. Mooney, to be fair to you, Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 94 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] I'm not asking you for the exact time on a [3] watch. But did they come I guess in close [4] proximity, you know, within five, ten, fifteen [5] minutes of each other? [6] A. Maybe about fifteen minutes. [7] Q. By the way, what does Terry [8] Reilly do for a living? [9] A. He's a funeral. He works in a [10] funeral parlor. [11] Q. And it's a family business? [12] A. Yes. [13] Q. Reilly Funeral Home? [14] A. Yes. [15] Q. After Reilly the undertaker [16] comes and this man with a dump truck with [17] keys, by the way, did you ever accept the keys [18] for the dump truck? [19] A. What was that? [20] Q. Did you ever accept the keys [21] for the dump truck? Did you take the keys [22] from the man who was trying to give them to [23] you? [24] A. I might have. I ain't sure. [25] You know? You know, pandemonium is broken out Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 95 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] and I says, you know. [3] Q. Fair enough. By the way, Terry [4] Reilly, he was a friend of John's, correct? [5] A. Yes. [6] Q. Did you call Terry Reilly and [7] ask him to come to the bar that morning? [8] A. No. Terry usually comes in, [9] bets a horse. If I have the horses, he'll bet [10] a horse or he'll play a number with me. [11] Q. Okay. [12] A. That was a Monday. Usually [13] he'll play a number for a week or so, for the [14] week. [15] Q. For the week. [16] A. Yeah. [17] Q. This was a Thursday, correct? [18] I'm sorry. Strike that. This was a Friday [19] morning, correct? [20] A. Oh, yeah. Yes. Friday. I'm [21] sorry. Yes. [22] Q. So, Mr. Mooney, if I may, the [23] police officers eventually arrive, correct? [24] A. Yes. [25] Q. Now, other than the family Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 96 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 24 (page 93 - 96) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] members of Seamus O'Neill, other than the [3] family members, other than yourself and the [4] guy with the keys and Terry O'Reilly, anyone [5] else in the bar that you can recall prior to [6] the police arriving? [7] A. No. [8] Q. Tell us about the police. They [9] come. What do they do? What do the officers [10] do? What do they say to you? Where do you [11] go? [12] A. They came in. Then the one [13] police officer saw me pouring another shot. I [14] was going to down that. He says that's it, [15] step behind the bar and stand there for a [16] minute. And then they took me in the police [17] car. [18] Q. And you went where, Mr. Mooney? [19] A. Down to, I guess we call it the [20] Roundhouse. That's the old name it used to [21] be. [22] Q. Okay. Now, let me ask you a [23] question. You get down to the Roundhouse and [24] I guess at some point in time you speak with [25] detectives? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 97 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] A. Yes. [3] Q. Okay. Do you recall, Mr. [4] Mooney, I'm not holding you to a time, but do [5] you recall about what time it is after Seamus [6] O'Neill's body is found, about how soon after [7] that do you eventually go down and end up down [8] at the Roundhouse? [9] A. About an hour. [10] Q. Okay. And after you're down [11] the Roundhouse, how long a period of time is [12] it before you actually give a statement to [13] homicide investigators? If you can. I'm not [14] holding you to an hour. [15] A. What's this, on Friday? [16] Q. Yeah, that Friday when they [17] take you down to the Roundhouse. [18] A. I didn't give them any [19] statement. [20] Q. At some point -- [21] A. I said I wasn't there. [22] Q. Okay. But you did give them a [23] statement. We'll get to the truth of the [24] statement. But you did say something to them, [25] correct? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 98 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] A. Yes. [3] Q. My question to you, Mr. Mooney, [4] is how long were you down there before [5] detectives actually sat down and asked you [6] questions about what happened? [7] A. As soon as I came in. [8] Q. Okay. Are you sure about that? [9] Was there any delay at all? [10] A. Yeah. There might have been, [11] you know, a half an hour in between. [12] Q. Mr. Mooney, let me ask you [13] this. What was your state of sobriety at that [14] point? Were you intoxicated when you were [15] down there? [16] A. No. [17] Q. No? [18] A. No. [19] Q. Because you just told us you [20] had a few shots. [21] A. Yeah. [22] Q. You did a couple quick ones, [23] right? [24] A. Yes. [25] Q. But you still knew where you Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 99 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] were and what was going on? [3] A. Yes. [4] Q. When you're down at the [5] Roundhouse, eventually detectives do speak [6] with you, correct, Mr. Mooney? [7] A. Yes. [8] Q. And what did they ask you, as [9] best you remember? I'm going to show you your [10] statement in a little bit. We'll go over it. [11] But what questions did they ask you and what [12] do you tell them? [13] A. I says I wasn't there, I called [14] a cab at 10:30 and I left, which was a lie. [15] Q. I mean, they were asking you [16] about that Wednesday? [17] A. Yeah. [18] Q. About when Seamus was injured? [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. That Wednesday going. And were [21] you truthful with them? [22] A. No. I said I lied. I said I [23] took a cab home at 10:30, but I didn't. [24] Q. And why did you do that, Mr. [25] Mooney? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 100 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 25 (page 97 - 100) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] A. Because I didn't want to get [3] involved in any of this. [4] Q. Okay. And when you say you [5] didn't want to get involved, just so the [6] ladies and gentlemen of the jury can [7] appreciate this, why didn't you want to get [8] involved, Mr. Mooney? [9] A. I just didn't want to. I just, [10] you know, all this, I guess transaction and [11] everything else. [12] Q. Did you want to tell them what [13] you saw happen? [14] A. No, not really. [15] Q. Why not? [16] A. Because John is a friend of [17] mine. [18] Q. You didn't want to tell the [19] police what John had done because he was a [20] friend of yours. [21] A. Yeah. [22] Q. Mr. Mooney, I want to ask you. [23] A couple days later, about three days later, [24] did you have occasion to be back down in [25] Homicide? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 101 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] A. Yes. [3] Q. Did they take a second [4] statement from you? [5] A. Yes. [6] Q. And what did you tell the [7] detectives on that date? [8] A. Whatever, whatever that, you [9] know, whatever they wrote down. [10] Q. Do you remember what detective [11] you spoke with? [12] A. Cummings. [13] Q. Detective Jack Cummings? [14] A. Yes. [15] Q. He took a second statement from [16] you? [17] A. Yes. [18] Q. Did he ask you what happened in [19] the bar that night? [20] A. Yes. [21] Q. Were you truthful to Detective [22] Cummings? [23] A. Yes. [24] Q. Did Detective Cummings ever [25] tell you what to say? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 102 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] A. No. [3] Q. Did he ever have a script for [4] you to read from? [5] A. No. [6] Q. Did he ask you questions? [7] A. Yes. [8] Q. Did you tell him the truth? [9] A. Yes. [10] Q. And when he asked you who hit [11] Seamus with the bat, what did you tell him? [12] A. John McLaughlin. [13] Q. Mr. Mooney, you also had a [14] chance after that statement was taken to [15] testify at a preliminary hearing, correct? [16] A. Yes. [17] Q. And that was on August, I want [18] to say August seventh, 2008, about seven [19] months. Specifically, Your Honor, it was -- [20] I'm sorry. It was August twentieth, 2008. [21] You had a chance in this building, correct, [22] Mr. Mooney? You had a chance to testify in [23] this building before a judge? [24] A. Yes. Yes. [25] Q. When you testified under oath Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 103 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] before a judge, the DA was Mark Gilson. It [3] wasn't me at that time, correct? [4] A. Yes. [5] Q. Did they ask you who had hit [6] Seamus with the bat? [7] A. Yes. [8] Q. And who did you say? [9] A. John McLaughlin. [10] Q. Was that the truth, Mr. Mooney? [11] A. Yes. [12] Q. Mr. Mooney, I want to ask you. [13] A. Anything I said on that hand on [14] the Bible and that was the truth. [15] Q. Mr. Mooney, I want to ask you a [16] question. I want to kind of go back to [17] shortly after that, that Friday, January [18] fourth, 2008, after Seamus's body is found. [19] Does John McLaughlin that weekend, in [20] particular about that Sunday, does he ever [21] reach out to you, get in touch with you, call [22] you? [23] A. Yes. [24] Q. When does he get in touch with [25] you? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 104 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 26 (page 101 - 104) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] A. I think, I believe it was on a [3] Sunday. [4] Q. Where did he call you? [5] A. He called me at my niece's [6] house. [7] Q. Did you speak with him? [8] A. Yes. [9] Q. What did John McLaughlin say to [10] you? [11] A. "I'm sorry. I'm sorry I got [12] you in this mess." [13] Q. Did he say anything else to [14] you? [15] A. Yeah. And then he, you know, [16] said, "I seen a gun." I said, you know, I [17] just got him off the phone. [18] Q. Okay. Now, but I want to back [19] up. I want to ask you a question, Mr. Mooney. [20] When John McLaughlin called you that Sunday, [21] two days, two days after Seamus O'Neill's body [22] was discovered in the basement of his bar, [23] what did John McLaughlin say to you about [24] Seamus and a gun? What did he say? [25] A. He said he had one. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 105 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. Did you ever see a gun? [3] A. No. [4] Q. Did he want you to tell the [5] police that Seamus had a gun? [6] A. Yes. [7] Q. Was that a lie? [8] A. Did I lie when I said? [9] Q. No. Did you see Seamus with a [10] gun? [11] A. No, I didn't see Seamus with a [12] gun. [13] Q. He wanted you to lie for him? [14] A. Yes. [15] Q. Did you do it? [16] A. No. [17] Q. By the way, Mr. Mooney, do you [18] recall, and just so it's clear, did you ever [19] see a gun in Seamus's hand? [20] A. No. [21] Q. By the way, while you were in [22] the bar that particular, when you were having [23] this confrontation with the family out in [24] front of the bar, out in front of McWhitey's, [25] I think you indicated at some point in time Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 106 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] you eventually went back into the bar. [3] A. Yes. [4] Q. Did you receive any calls while [5] you were in the bar, if you recall? Did [6] anyone call you while you were in the bar? [7] A. Yeah, John. [8] Q. John McLaughlin? [9] A. Yes. [10] Q. By the way, the same John [11] McLaughlin that was just in front of the bar, [12] right? That just drove by. [13] A. That drove by, yes. [14] Q. What did he want? [15] A. He wanted to know what was [16] going on. [17] Q. What did you say? [18] A. I says, well, Seamus's family [19] is, you know, came in and they said Seamus's [20] car is across the street and he hasn't been [21] home for that day or two. [22] Q. He called the bar? [23] A. Yes. [24] Q. Tell us what happens then. [25] After that, Mr. Mooney, by the way, did you at Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 107 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] some point in time, did you ever have any [3] other conversations with John about what you [4] should tell the police? [5] A. No. [6] Q. Did he ever mention anything [7] about a lawyer to you? [8] A. Yeah. [9] Q. When was that? [10] A. He said there was one coming [11] down. [12] Q. When did he tell you that, do [13] you recall? [14] A. No, I don't recall. [15] Q. Why did you need a lawyer? [16] A. I don't know. [17] Q. Okay. Well, did you, did you [18] think you needed a lawyer? [19] A. No. Usually when you, you [20] know, they pull you in, you want a lawyer just [21] to keep the thing straight. [22] Q. By the way, Mr. Mooney, I'll [23] get a chance to show you some. I know you [24] indicated that John McLaughlin asked you to [25] say that Seamus had a gun. I think that was Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 108 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 27 (page 105 - 108) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] your testimony. [3] A. Yes. [4] Q. Right. Did at some point in [5] time, did his investigator, an investigator, [6] come out to see you? [7] A. Yes. [8] Q. Do you remember on how many [9] occasions the investigator came out to see [10] you? [11] A. Three or four. [12] Q. And do you remember about how [13] long ago that was? [14] A. From today? [15] Q. Yeah. [16] A. About a year. A year or, you [17] know. [18] Q. Did you give him statements? [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. Do you recall what it was that [21] you said to the investigator? [22] A. I recall the one thing. [23] Q. And what was that, Mr. Mooney? [24] A. That was, which was bothering [25] me, when that Ricky came in the bar, you know, Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 109 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] he went over and got me a coffee and him a [3] coffee. [4] Q. When was this, just so the [5] ladies and gentlemen of the jury can [6] understand this? [7] A. That was that Friday, I [8] believe. [9] Q. Okay. [10] A. He came in the bar and he, the [11] fellow was hard to speak because I think he's [12] hard of hearing, deaf and dumb. And he [13] pointed to me, "Moon," like this. And I [14] looked and there was a gun on the bar. I [15] picked it up. [16] Q. Wait. Describe the condition [17] of the gun. [18] A. I didn't, you know. I didn't [19] go searching because, you know, there was [20] people in the bar. I just picked it up, [21] walked down, and there was a beer box and I [22] put it on the shelf. [23] Q. Where was it that Ricky got the [24] gun from, do you recall? [25] A. I don't know. I don't recall Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 110 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Ricky bringing it into the bar. [3] Q. Okay. [4] A. I think it was there. [5] Q. Okay. How was the gun? Was it [6] wrapped in anything that you saw? [7] A. It was a towel. [8] Q. It was wrapped in a towel? [9] A. A towel was on the top of it. [10] Q. By the way, and do you remember [11] that was when, Mr. Mooney? That was that [12] Friday? [13] A. Yes. [14] Q. Was that before the police [15] officers arrived or when was that, or after? [16] When was that? When did you make this [17] discovery? [18] A. Oh. It was, the police weren't [19] in yet. [20] Q. Okay. So Ricky was in there? [21] A. Yes. [22] Q. Had you ever seen that gun that [23] was wrapped in a towel, had you ever seen that [24] in Seamus's hand? [25] A. No. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 111 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. Did you ever see it at all at [3] any point in time during the incident? [4] A. No. [5] Q. I want to get back to a [6] statement that was provided to me by defense [7] counsel. [8] MR. CONROY: Your Honor, this [9] was taken, a statement I believe taken, and I [10] know this was taken before Mr. McMonagle's [11] involvement in this case, Mr. McMonagle, and I [12] apologize but I don't have a date on this [13] unless you can help me. [14] MR. McMONAGLE: I can't. [15] MR. CONROY: You can't. But [16] it's prior to your involvement, right, Mr. [17] McMonagle? [18] MR. McMONAGLE: Yes. [19] MR. CONROY: Can we both [20] stipulate to that? [21] MR. McMONAGLE: Yes. [22] MR. CONROY: A statement from [23] an investigator prior to Mr. McMonagle's [24] involvement in this case. I'm going to read [25] this statement. It's undated. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 112 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 28 (page 109 - 112) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] BY MR. CONROY: [3] Q. I think you indicated, by the [4] way, did you know the name of that [5] investigator that took the statement? [6] A. Wayne Bowie. [7] Q. Fair enough. I know this [8] doesn't have a date, but let me ask you this. [9] Would it be fair to say, Mr. Mooney, that all [10] of these statements were taken from you after, [11] after you gave your statements to the police? [12] A. Yes. [13] Q. Okay. Now, I know you don't [14] have an independent recollection of the exact [15] date, but all three statements that you gave [16] to the defense, I've been provided with three [17] by Mr. McMonagle, all of which predate his [18] involvement in the case. But my question to [19] you, Mr. Mooney, is I'm not holding you to a [20] date, but do you know whether these statements [21] occurred before or after you came into the [22] courtroom and testified? [23] A. After. [24] Q. After. [25] A. After I testified. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 113 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. After you came into the [3] courtroom and testified? [4] A. Yes. [5] Q. And I think you told the ladies [6] and gentlemen of the jury that you came into [7] the courtroom and told the truth according to [8] you, what you saw? [9] A. Yes, yes. [10] Q. Let me see if you remember [11] giving this statement. By the way, all three [12] statements, were they given to the same [13] defense investigator? [14] A. Yes. [15] Q. What was his name? [16] A. Wayne Bowie. [17] MR. CONROY: Judge, I believe [18] he's sequestered and all I would ask, with the [19] Court's permission, if he could be brought [20] into the room, just state his name for the [21] record and I can have this witness. He can [22] then be removed. Just state his name and then [23] I'll ask questions. [24] MR. McMONAGLE: Judge, for [25] record purposes, can we have the exhibits Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 114 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] marked and shown to the witness? [3] MR. CONROY: Fair enough. Yes, [4] I will, Judge. I have a series of statements. [5] Commonwealth Exhibit C-9 they will all be. [6] Mr. McMonagle and Mr. DiFabio, I'm going to [7] mark all of Mr. Mooney's statements C-9. A [8] will be the one on 1/4. [9] MR. McMONAGLE: I'm sorry. Say [10] that again, Jude? [11] MR. CONROY: All the statements [12] of Mr. Mooney I'll mark as C-9, and they will [13] be basically in date order. A will be the 1/4 [14] statement. B will be the 1/7 statement. And [15] then I'm going to go in what I believe to be [16] the sequential orders of the statements that [17] you gave me, some of which are undated. Fair [18] enough? [19] MR. McMONAGLE: Yes. [20] MR. CONROY: Your Honor, we [21] have C-9A, two copies. C-9B, two copies. [22] C-9C, two copies. [23] COURT CRIER: C-9A, B and C, [24] Your Honor. [25] THE COURT: Very well. Show Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 115 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] the witness. [3] MR. CONROY: And I have D and [4] E, Judge. For the witness and the Court, Your [5] Honor. [6] COURT CRIER: C-9D and E, Your [7] Honor. [8] MR. CONROY: May I, Your Honor? [9] THE COURT: Yes. [10] MR. CONROY: Mr. Mooney, I want [11] to ask you. I want you to take a look first [12] at what has been marked Commonwealth Exhibit [13] C-9C. And Mr. McMonagle and Mr. DiFabio, [14] that's the statement where it says, "I opened [15] the bar at 10:30 a.m.," the first answer. [16] Fair enough? [17] MR. DiFABIO: Yes. [18] MR. McMONAGLE: Yes. [19] MR. CONROY: May I approach the [20] witness, Your Honor, just to direct him? [21] THE COURT: Yes. The crier has [22] indicated that the person you want brought out [23] is not out there at this time. We could have [24] him brought in later. [25] BY MR. CONROY: Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 116 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 29 (page 113 - 116) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. Mr. Mooney, this is where I'm [3] going to read from, okay? This statement [4] here. Fair enough? Mr. Mooney, I want to [5] read this statement to you and see if you [6] recognize this. [7] "On January second, 2008," -- [8] and again this is a statement given to a [9] defense investigator. There's no date on it. [10] "On January second, 2008, I opened the bar at [11] 10:30 a.m. as usual, and during the day I was [12] drinking Irish Mist and beer until seven p.m. [13] When I was relieved, I sat in my normal spot [14] at the end of the bar next to the beer cooler [15] and continued to drink Irish Mist and beer. [16] Sometime during the night I moved to the other [17] side of the opening of the bar on Mercer [18] Street side. [19] "At about 1:30 a.m. on January [20] third, 2008, somebody knocked at the front [21] door and was buzzed in and it was Seamus [22] O'Neill. He sat at the end of the bar by the [23] door and ordered a rum and coke. He may have [24] had one more. I'm not sure. I wasn't paying [25] attention. After a while, Seamus came down to Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 117 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] my end of the bar and had a conversation with [3] John. The conversation was pleasant. There [4] was no yelling or anything. I grabbed a [5] bottle of Irish Mist and some beer and me and [6] Goober went upstairs and we sat down and [7] drank." [8] Do you see that, Mr. Mooney? [9] A. Uh-huh. [10] Q. Where you say -- [11] THE COURT: You have to say yes [12] or no, sir. You have to say yes or no. [13] THE WITNESS: Oh. Yes. [14] BY MR. CONROY: [15] Q. Where you say at the bottom, "I [16] grabbed a bottle of Irish Mist and some beer [17] and me and Goober went upstairs and we sat [18] down and drank. By about 2:30 a.m. I was [19] totally smashed and I left and went home." [20] Do you see that? Did I read [21] that correctly? [22] A. Yes. That's what it says here. [23] Q. And there's a signature down [24] the bottom. [25] A. Yes. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 118 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. Whose signature is that? [3] A. That's mine. [4] Q. Did you give this statement to [5] the defense investigator? [6] A. Yes. [7] Q. Was what I just read true? [8] That is, that you decided to go upstairs and [9] sit in the bar with Goober, I mean, and you [10] didn't see anything happen? [11] A. No. [12] Q. Was that true? [13] A. No. [14] THE COURT: Did you write out [15] this statement, sir, or is it someone else who [16] wrote it out? [17] THE WITNESS: Someone else. [18] MR. CONROY: I'm sorry, Judge. [19] I don't want to interrupt you. [20] THE COURT: Go ahead. [21] MR. CONROY: Go ahead, Judge. [22] Did you have any more questions? [23] THE COURT: No. [24] BY MR. CONROY: [25] Q. Who wrote the statement, Mr. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 119 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Mooney? [3] A. Wayne Bowie. [4] Q. Okay. It's his penmanship on [5] this statement? [6] A. I believe so. [7] Q. Well, he took the statement [8] from you, correct? [9] A. Yes. [10] Q. Where did he come to take the [11] statement? [12] A. At where I'm living at. [13] Q. So he came to your house, [14] correct? [15] A. Yes. [16] Q. So knows where you live? [17] A. Yes. [18] Q. And then the next page. "I [19] returned to the bar on January fourth, 2008, [20] and opened the bar at 10:30 a.m. I had a [21] number of double shots of Irish Mist or vodka [22] and some beers. Sometime that morning, [23] someone knocked on the door. It was the black [24] guy who delivers the linen. I let him in. I [25] don't recall his name. It's in my phone book, Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 120 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 30 (page 117 - 120) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] but the homicide detectives took my book from [3] my home. He took the clean towels and linen [4] and aprons in the basement, came back up with [5] the dirty ones. I paid him twenty-eight [6] dollars and he left. [7] "Sometime after the linen guy [8] left, I heard knocking at the door and it was [9] Seamus's relatives asking to come in. I told [10] him that I wasn't open yet because I had some [11] more cleaning to do." [12] Do you see all that, sir? Am I [13] reading it correctly? [14] A. Uh-huh. [15] THE COURT: Say yes or no, sir. [16] THE WITNESS: Yes. [17] BY MR CONROY: [18] Q. "They came in and began looking [19] around the bar and one of them asked if they [20] could go into the basement. About three or [21] four of them went down and when they came up, [22] one of them said, 'Yeah, he's down there.'" [23] Do you see all that, sir? [24] A. Yes. [25] Q. Okay. Well, and again, this Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 121 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] is all in the penmanship of Wayne Bowie, [3] correct? [4] A. Yes. [5] Q. I want to fast forward to page [6] four of five, the last series of questions and [7] answers. "On the night of January second and [8] the morning of January third, 2008, did you [9] ever see John McLaughlin hit Seamus O'Neill?" [10] Answer: "No." [11] Do you see that, Mr. Mooney? [12] THE COURT: Do you see that, [13] page four of fire, sir? [14] THE WITNESS: Okay. This is [15] four? [16] MR. CONROY: Can I approach, [17] Judge? [18] THE COURT: Yes. [19] BY MR. CONROY: [20] Q. Right down here. "On the night [21] of January second, the morning of January [22] third, '08, did you ever see John McLaughlin [23] hit Seamus O'Neill?" [24] Answer: "No." [25] A. Yes. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 122 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. Did you tell that to the [3] defense investigator? [4] A. No. [5] Q. Well, your signature is right [6] there, Mr. Mooney. [7] A. Yeah, I know. But I don't, you [8] know. That's my signature. I don't know what [9] the hell he did. He might have monkeyed [10] around with these papers. [11] Q. Next question. "Did you see [12] John and Seamus arguing in any way?" [13] Answer: "No." [14] A. That's true. [15] Q. Question: "Did you see blood [16] on the floor of the bar?" [17] Answer: "No." [18] A. That's not true. [19] Q. "Who was upstairs with you?" [20] "Bob Evans. We call him Goob." [21] Do you remember that? [22] A. Yes. [23] Q. Mr. Mooney, it says here in the [24] statement that's signed by you, taken in the [25] penmanship of Wayne Bowie, that you didn't see Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 123 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] John ever strike Seamus. Is that true? [3] A. No. [4] Q. Mr. Mooney, why did you give [5] this statement? Tell the ladies and [6] gentlemen. Why did you give this statement to [7] the defense investigator? [8] A. Why? Well, some of it to me [9] is, well, how he ever did it, this is not [10] true. [11] Q. Mr. Mooney, my question is -- [12] MR. McMONAGLE: Judge, can he [13] answer the question, please? [14] THE WITNESS: This is not true, [15] this, all these statements. [16] BY MR. CONROY: [17] Q. Mr. Mooney, your signature [18] appears at the bottom of it. [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. Why did you give Wayne Bowie an [21] interview saying that you didn't see anything [22] in the bar? Why did you do it? [23] A. (No response.) [24] Q. Let me rephrase that question. [25] Who wanted you to give these statements? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 124 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 31 (page 121 - 124) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] THE COURT: If you know. Who [3] wanted you to give the statements? [4] THE WITNESS: Wayne Bowie. [5] BY MR. CONROY: [6] Q. Who was Wayne Bowie working [7] for? [8] A. John. John. [9] Q. Okay. [10] A. Or the lawyer, the lawyer at [11] the time. [12] Q. And my question to you, Mr. [13] Mooney, why did you tell the defense [14] investigator? Why did you tell him that you [15] didn't see anything happen in the bar, you [16] didn't see John strike Seamus? [17] A. I didn't say that to him. [18] Q. That's your signature down [19] there. [20] A. Yeah, but somehow or other he [21] pulled a tricky. What do they call them? [22] Tricky Dicky on me. [23] Q. Well, next page, page five of [24] five. "During the January seventh interview [25] with homicide detectives, how did you feel Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 125 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] about the treatment you were given? [3] Answer: "A nervous wreck and [4] intimidated." [5] Do you remember telling that to [6] Wayne Bowie? [7] A. Yes, I did. [8] Q. Did you feel that way when you [9] were speaking with Detective Jack Cummings? [10] A. Yes. [11] Q. Did Detective Cummings [12] intimidate you? [13] A. No. [14] Q. Okay. Well, then why did you [15] say that? [16] A. Because when they picked me up, [17] this Detective Pitts, you know, he handcuffed [18] me and then he said she was going to lock my [19] sister up because for harboring a fugitive [20] and, you know, I didn't want to, you know, I [21] didn't want no problems with my sister. I [22] don't want her to get involved in none of [23] this. [24] Q. Fair enough. Question: "Did [25] anyone in the Homicide Unit tell you that Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 126 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] there was an attorney in the lobby for you?" [3] Answer: "No, they never told [4] me that. Had they told me, I would have told [5] them to bring him up." [6] Do you see that question and [7] answer? [8] A. Yes. [9] Q. Did you ever, did you call for [10] an attorney that day, sir? Who was the first [11] one that mentioned to you getting an attorney? [12] I mean, you indicated John spoke to you about [13] an attorney? [14] A. Yeah. [15] THE COURT: The witness is here [16] now. [17] THE WITNESS: I think, yes. I [18] should have said yes. [19] THE COURT: Hold on, sir. The [20] witness you wanted brought in is here. [21] MR. CONROY: Can he just come [22] in? Judge, the only thing I'd ask the Court [23] to do is to have him identify himself for the [24] record. [25] THE COURT: Do you need that Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 127 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] hat on? [3] THE WITNESS: Oh. No. I'm [4] sorry. I'm sorry, Your Honor. It's just [5] force of habit. [6] THE COURT: I know. I know. [7] Don't worry about. Go ahead. [8] THE WITNESS: Lack of hair. [9] THE COURT: Go ahead, please. [10] Do you want to look towards the door, sir? [11] We're going to bring this person in who you [12] said you knew, Wayne Bowie. [13] THE WITNESS: What do I got to [14] do now? [15] MR. CONROY: Just take a look. [16] THE WITNESS: No, that ain't [17] Wayne Bowie. [18] MR. CONROY: Hold on. He'll [19] state his name for the record and then after [20] he leaves I'll ask you questions. Judge, if [21] he could state for the record his name. [22] THE COURT: Yes. Do you want [23] to state your name? [24] MR. BOWIE: Pardon me? [25] MR. CONROY: State your name Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 128 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 32 (page 125 - 128) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] for the record. [3] MR. BOWIE: Wayne Bowie. [4] MR. CONROY: Fair enough. Fair [5] enough, Judge. [6] THE WITNESS: Yes. [7] MR. CONROY: You can step [8] outside. [9] THE COURT: Okay. Thank you. [10] BY MR. CONROY: [11] Q. Do you recognize that man? [12] A. Yes. [13] Q. And who is she? [14] A. Wayne Bowie. [15] Q. Is he the one that took this [16] statement? [17] A. Yes. [18] Q. And you've indicated here this [19] is all his penmanship? [20] A. Yes. [21] Q. And it says here, "On the night [22] of January second, the morning of January [23] third, did you ever see John McLaughlin hit [24] Seamus?" [25] The answer is, "No." Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 129 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Where did that answer come [3] from? [4] A. He must have put it in there or [5] something. He rewrote it. [6] Q. Mr. Mooney, did you tell him [7] that? Did you tell him that you didn't see [8] anything? [9] A. No. [10] Q. You never told him that? [11] A. No. [12] Q. Well, if we can, you signed the [13] statement. Fair enough? [14] A. Yes. [15] Q. You know how to read? [16] A. Yes. [17] Q. Why would you sign a statement [18] that indicates that you didn't see anything? [19] A. I don't know what he did, but I [20] don't think this statement is true. Somehow [21] it got monkeyed around with. [22] Q. Did he say or do anything to [23] make you feel uncomfortable? [24] A. No. [25] Q. None at all? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 130 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] A. No. [3] Q. If I can, I'm going to pick up [4] with your statement where I left off. I think [5] page two, counsel, page two of five. [6] A. C9-C? [7] Q. Yeah, C-9C. Did you tell [8] Mr. -- this is when the victim's family [9] arrives. "I told them I wasn't open yet [10] because I had some more cleaning to do. They [11] came in and began looking around the bar and [12] one of them asked if they could go in the [13] basement. About three or four of them went [14] down and when they came up, one said that he's [15] down there. The police came and I remained at [16] the bar. I had some more double shots and one [17] of Seamus's family was throwing ashtrays and [18] threatening me. Between the time that the [19] police officers came and the time that they [20] put me in the police car, I had some more to [21] drink. They took me to the homicide office." [22] Do you remember that, sir? [23] A. Yes. [24] Q. Okay. Did you tell all this to [25] Wayne Bowie? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 131 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] A. About drinking? [3] Q. Yeah. [4] A. Yeah. I, yeah, I drank. Yeah. [5] Q. I think, continuing on on page [6] four of five, your answer: "Sometime in [7] August of 2008 I attended a preliminary [8] hearing in this matter. All through the [9] previous night and into the morning I was out [10] with my friends drinking. I was drinking many [11] Irish Mists and beers. When I arrived at the [12] hearing, I was very tired and intoxicated when [13] I testified." [14] Did you tell that to Mr. Bowie? [15] A. I said I was drinking, you [16] know, the night before and I drank, you know. [17] Yes. [18] Q. Continuing on, "Between August [19] third and August eighth, what was your state [20] of mind?" [21] "I was agitated and nervous. I [22] felt threatened by the police and the O'Neill [23] family." [24] Did you tell that to Mr. Bowie? [25] A. Yes. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 132 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 33 (page 129 - 132) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. Did the O'Neill family threaten [3] you in any way? [4] A. Just what I said before. [5] Q. In the bar, right? [6] A. Yeah. [7] Q. Mr. Mooney, when you tell the [8] defense investigator that you didn't see [9] anyone, you didn't see John hit Seamus, you [10] never said, you're telling us today you never [11] said that? [12] A. Yes. [13] Q. When you gave a second [14] statement to the same investigator, this is [15] dated the twentieth of October, 2010. [16] THE COURT: That's C what? [17] MR. CONROY: Your Honor, that [18] would be C-9D. [19] THE COURT: Very well. [20] BY MR. CONROY: [21] Q. Second statement. Did you give [22] a second statement to Mr. Bowie? [23] A. Yes. [24] Q. Mr. Mooney, before I question [25] you, did you tell him the truth? Why were you Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 133 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] giving these statements, Mr. Mooney? Were you [3] telling him the truth about what happened? [4] A. Yes. I -- yeah. [5] Q. Yes, what? [6] A. I was telling the truth. [7] Q. To Mr. Bowie? [8] A. Yeah. But apparently this is [9] not what I said to him. Apparently this is [10] not the truth. [11] Q. Let me ask. This is a second [12] statement you gave to Mr. Bowie. I'll read [13] it. It's D. "On January second, 2008, I [14] started my shift, which is normally eleven to [15] seven, at about 10:30 a.m. As I did every [16] morning, I went downstairs and I used a large [17] plastic ice bucket to bring the ice up from [18] the basement to the ice bin under the bar. I [19] may have brought up a case or two of beer and [20] put it in the beer boxes. I drank alcohol [21] during my shift and that ended at seven p.m. [22] I remained at the end of the bar and continued [23] drinking. [24] "At about 1:30, 1:45 a.m., [25] someone knocked on the front door and Goober Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 134 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] buzzed him in. Seamus O'Neill walked into the [3] bar and eventually ended up at the other end [4] of the bar where we were. Goober left from [5] behind the bar and went to the bathroom for [6] what seemed like a long time. I got up from [7] my seat and walked over to the beer box, [8] opened it and got a can of beer. As I closed [9] the beer box door and turned to my right, [10] Seamus jumped up and I saw the black handle of [11] a gun in the waistband." [12] Do you see that? [13] A. Yes. [14] Q. You told that to Wayne Bowie, [15] correct? [16] A. Yes, but that's not what I [17] said. [18] Q. Okay. [19] A. I -- [20] Q. Let me ask you a question. [21] A. I said he jumped up and went [22] like that. [23] Q. Indicating -- [24] A. And, you know, whatever. It [25] could have been a cell phone or he could have Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 135 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] been grabbing, you know, pulling his pants up [3] or whatever. [4] Q. Mr. Mooney, I asked -- [5] A. I didn't say I saw Seamus with [6] a gun. [7] Q. Okay. Let me ask you this, Mr. [8] Mooney. Before the statement, just look at me [9] for a second. Forget about the statement. [10] Did you ever see a gun in Seamus's hand? [11] A. No. [12] Q. Ever? [13] A. No. [14] Q. Did John tell you two days [15] after his body was found to tell the police [16] that he had a gun? [17] A. Yes. [18] Q. He wanted you to do that, [19] didn't he? [20] A. Yes. [21] Q. Did you tell police Seamus had [22] a gun? [23] A. No. [24] Q. Why? Because he didn't have a [25] gun, right? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 136 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 34 (page 133 - 136) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] A. Right. [3] Q. Okay. Well, now you're talking [4] to a defense investigator and it's signed. [5] That's your signature, is it not, on the [6] bottom there? [7] A. Yes. That's my signature. [8] Like I'm saying, he doctored them up somehow [9] or another without my knowledge. But I did, I [10] did say. This bothered me after, you know, [11] testimony and preliminary hearing and [12] everything. It did bother me. Like I said, [13] when Ricky came in the bar, he pointed to me [14] and there was a gun laying on the bar. So I [15] did see a gun but I saw a gun on the bar. But [16] I didn't, I didn't see Seamus's hand on it. [17] THE COURT: Sir, we're going to [18] break. Mr. Conroy, I know you have some [19] substantial questions. It's almost one [20] o'clock. We're going to give the jury a [21] break. [22] MR. CONROY: Thank you, Your [23] Honor. [24] THE COURT: They've been [25] sitting for over an hour and a half and they Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 137 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] have to eat. We'll break at this time. We'll [3] continue with direct examination. Just have a [4] seat, sir. The jury is going to leave the [5] room. [6] COURT CRIER: Remain seated as [7] the jury exits the courtroom, please. [8] THE COURT: Thanks, Jim. [9] Please remain seated. Jurors, enjoy your [10] lunch. We'll see you at about two o'clock. [11] (Jury excused.) [12] THE COURT: Very well. I'll [13] see everybody at two. Everybody remain [14] seated. [15] (A luncheon recess was taken.) [16] COURT CRIER: Remain seated as [17] the jury enters the courtroom, please. [18] (Jury summoned.) [19] COURT CRIER: All rise. In the [20] name of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, this [21] Court of Common Pleas Homicide Division is now [22] reconvened. The Honorable Judge Jeffrey P. [23] Minehart is presiding. Please be seated and [24] cease all conversations. [25] Good afternoon, Your Honor. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 138 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] THE COURT: Good afternoon. [3] Good afternoon, everyone. All right. We'll [4] bring the witness back in. [5] COURT CRIER: I remind you, [6] sir, you're still under oath. [7] THE COURT: Do you understand [8] that now, Mr. Mooney? You're still under [9] oath. [10] THE WITNESS: Yes. [11] THE COURT: Very well. You may [12] proceed, Mr. Conroy. [13] MR. CONROY: Thank you, Your [14] Honor. [15] BY MR. CONROY: [16] Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Mooney. [17] A. Good afternoon. [18] Q. Mr. Mooney, when we last left, [19] I just want to follow up on a couple, one [20] particular area of questioning. You indicated [21] I think that at some point Seamus, I read from [22] a statement given to the defense, which I'll [23] get back to, but Seamus reaching for a gun or [24] reaching for something? [25] A. Yes. I went over to get a can Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 139 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] of beer out of there and he, him and John were [3] sitting down. And he jumped, like. He jumped [4] up and went like that. [5] Q. Went like what? Show us what [6] you're doing. You can stand up. [7] A. He went like this. [8] Q. Indicating going to his [9] waistband? [10] A. Either pulling his pants up or [11] it could have been a cell phone or what, [12] whatever it was. He went like this, you know. [13] I said, "Yo." [14] Q. Okay. [15] A. "I'm getting a beer." [16] Q. Okay. Well, did you think that [17] was strange? [18] A. Yeah, I did, because they [19] didn't want me to know what the hell they were [20] talking about or doing. [21] Q. Well, -- [22] A. But I didn't see no gun. [23] Q. Well, let me ask you a [24] question. Mr. Mooney, when you say that [25] Seamus got up and jumped and you say he Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 140 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 35 (page 137 - 140) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] reached for indicating the right side almost [3] as if he was reaching in the area for where a [4] gun would be if it was on the waistband, [5] right? [6] A. Yeah. [7] Q. Did that scare you? [8] A. Yeah. [9] Q. Obviously, you're telling us [10] you were scared, right? [11] A. Yes. [12] Q. Okay. And did you tell the [13] police that? [14] A. I believe I didn't. [15] Q. Why wouldn't you? [16] A. Because I didn't think of it. [17] Q. Okay. Well, it scared you, [18] right? [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. Okay. [21] A. I was scared all the time, all [22] the time. [23] Q. Well, I know, but I want to [24] focus in on prior to anything happening, Mr. [25] Mooney. You're in the bar. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 141 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] A. Yes. [3] Q. Seamus is sitting there next to [4] John, right? [5] A. Yeah. [6] Q. And just so I know it, I mean, [7] and the jury will get a chance to see from the [8] jury box, but you're sitting and you're [9] looking across the bar at Seamus and John, [10] correct? [11] A. Yes. [12] Q. The bartender is in the middle. [13] As soon as you walk into the bar, you walk in. [14] You're sitting at one end and if you were to [15] walk around the bar, there's an opening and [16] then it's the beer box and then it's John [17] McLaughlin and then it's Seamus, correct? [18] A. Yes. [19] Q. All right. So at some point in [20] time you're telling us that you get up out of [21] your seat, walk around to the beer box, right? [22] A. Yes. [23] Q. Now, would it be fair to say [24] that John McLaughlin is right there, right? [25] A. Yeah. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 142 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. And then Seamus is next to him. [3] A. Yeah. [4] Q. Right? [5] A. Yes. [6] Q. So you're telling us today that [7] at some point Seamus jumps up as if he's going [8] into his waistband for something, correct? [9] A. Yes. [10] Q. And you'll never forget that, [11] right? Right? [12] A. No. [13] Q. And it scared you, right? [14] A. Yes. [15] Q. Okay. By the way, did you ever [16] hear, Mr. Mooney, did you ever hear any [17] arguments between Seamus and John McLaughlin? [18] A. No. [19] Q. Okay. Do you remember giving a [20] statement to Detective Cummings? [21] A. I believe I would remember. [22] Q. Yeah, okay. Mr. Mooney, I'm [23] going to direct your attention specifically to [24] January seventh, five o'clock. It's C-9B as [25] in Barney. And I'm going to refer, counsel, Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 143 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] really essentially to the question that's on [3] page three. The answer is on page four. See [4] if you remember this, Mr. Mooney. It's page [5] three of the statement given on January [6] seventh. [7] THE COURT: Let us know when [8] you get there, Mr. Mooney. [9] THE WITNESS: Huh? [10] THE COURT: Let us know when [11] you get there. Page three. [12] MR. McMONAGLE: C-9B? [13] MR. CONROY: Yes, C-9B. Page [14] three, last question on the page. [15] THE WITNESS: Okay. [16] BY MR. CONROY: [17] Q. Do you see that, Mr. Mooney, at [18] the bottom? The question begins, "Go on in [19] your own words and tell us what happened." Do [20] you see that? [21] A. "Was what you told [22] Detective" -- [23] MR. CONROY: May I approach, [24] Your Honor? [25] THE COURT: Yes. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 144 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 36 (page 141 - 144) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] BY MR. CONROY: [3] Q. There's a lot of statements, [4] Mr. Mooney, and I just want to. This is [5] January seventh. We're going to go to page [6] three. I'm sorry. To you it's page three, [7] but I meant page three in the body, so I [8] apologize. Right there. It's page three in [9] the body. Fair enough? [10] A. Uh-huh. [11] Q. Are we on the same page? [12] MR. McMONAGLE: Jude, what [13] actual page? [14] MR. CONROY: It's page three of [15] the body. [16] BY MR. CONROY: [17] Q. See if you remember this [18] question and answer, January seventh, '08. [19] "Go on in your own words and tell us what [20] happened inside McWhitey's on Wednesday night, [21] early Thursday morning, 1/2/08 into 1/3/08." [22] Answer: "My shift was over at [23] seven a.m. and I stayed there and had a couple [24] of drinks." [25] A. I'm not. I got the wrong page Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 145 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] or something. [3] Q. Just flip over. The answer is [4] on the next page. [5] THE COURT: Page four. See it? [6] THE WITNESS: Yeah. [7] BY MR. CONROY: [8] Q. See where it says, "My shift"? [9] A. Uh-huh. [10] Q. Okay. "My shift was over at [11] seven a.m. I stayed there and had a couple of [12] drinks. Later on I called for a cab to go [13] home. Actually, I was going to Arby's first [14] to get cinnamon buns and then go home. The [15] cab came and I was going to cancel because [16] John said he would give me a ride." [17] A. Yes. [18] Q. "Some girl took the cab. Then [19] around 1:45 Seamus came in and sat down by the [20] window by the front of the bar. He had a [21] couple of drinks. Then he moved around the [22] side of by the beer box where John McLaughlin [23] was. Him and John started talking. They were [24] fine at first and I think they even bought [25] each other drinks. Then they got into an Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 146 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] argument." [3] Do you remember saying that to [4] Detective Cummings? [5] A. Yeah. [6] Q. Okay. Well, and this was [7] given, Mr. Mooney, January seventh. This is [8] three days after Seamus's body was discovered [9] in the basement, four days after the assault, [10] correct? [11] A. Yes. [12] Q. Now, when you tell Detective [13] Cummings that they got into an argument, what [14] did you mean by that answer? [15] A. They seemed like they were [16] arguing, you know, talking, disagreeing. [17] Q. Okay. Well, -- [18] A. You know. I mean, I didn't [19] hear what they were saying. [20] Q. Mr. Mooney, that's not my [21] question. My question is, did the defendant [22] John McLaughlin and Seamus O'Neill get into a [23] verbal argument? [24] A. I would say, yeah. [25] Q. Okay. Well, you were there, Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 147 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Mr. Mooney. You have to tell us what you [3] remember. I'm not asking you what the [4] argument was about, but were they raising [5] their voices with each other? [6] A. Not loud. They were arguing [7] but not loud. [8] Q. Okay. "Then John," continuing [9] on, "Then John got a baseball bat from behind [10] the bar and then he whacked him. He hit him. [11] John kept hitting on Seamus. Then Seamus [12] finally dropped. I said fuck this and went [13] and got a couple of cans of beer and went [14] upstairs. A little while later Bob Evans came [15] upstairs with some beers. Then I think John [16] came up. We all just sat there and John said [17] he thinks the guy is dead. John went [18] downstairs and me and Bob Evans stayed [19] upstairs. Me and Bob stayed there all night. [20] We stayed upstairs. I fell asleep there and [21] when I got up, I went downstairs and I seen [22] John McLaughlin and Sammy Toy, and Sammy Toy [23] was mopping up. Then Rick came in with two [24] coffees, one for me, one for him. He does it [25] every day. Then Rick started mopping up. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 148 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 37 (page 145 - 148) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Then around one p.m. I left." [3] Do you remember giving that [4] answer? [5] A. Yes. [6] Q. Okay. Do you tell Detective [7] Cummings anywhere in that statement that [8] Seamus got up from his bar seat and went quick [9] to his waistband? [10] A. No, I didn't. [11] Q. Okay. [12] A. But that was before Seamus got [13] hit. [14] Q. Okay. Right. Okay. Well, let [15] me ask you this. After Seamus did that, what [16] did he do? [17] A. He sat down and started talking [18] to John again. [19] Q. Okay. Was there any problems [20] up to that point? [21] A. No. [22] Q. Okay. And you didn't see any [23] gun. [24] A. No. [25] Q. But my question to you is, you Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 149 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] never mentioned that to Detective Cummings [3] that Seamus looked as if he was pulling [4] something from his waistband. [5] A. No, I didn't. And you can't [6] think of everything, you know. He says tell [7] it in your own words so I'm, you know, trying [8] to go through my mind what's happening and [9] what's not. [10] Q. Okay. But I mean you [11] remembered that today, correct? [12] A. Yes. [13] Q. Okay. You also testified at a [14] preliminary hearing, correct, Mr. Mooney? I [15] think you testified, I think we spoke about it [16] briefly, on August twentieth. That's about [17] seven months after Seamus was assaulted, [18] correct? [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. Page 104, counsel. Question, [21] starting on page 104. Question: "You don't [22] know what they're talking about. You're not [23] listening." [24] Answer: "No." [25] "You're not even looking at Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 150 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] him, are you?" Speaking about the victim. [3] Answer: "Not really, no. As [4] the conversation goes on, it gets a little [5] louder and a little louder and a little [6] louder." [7] "But you still weren't paying [8] attention." [9] Answer: "I wasn't paying [10] attention, no." [11] Question: "Now, at this point [12] while you're around the other side of the bar, [13] correct? You say John then walks behind the [14] bar and grabs a bat; is that correct?" [15] "Yes." [16] "Where is Seamus?" [17] Answer: "He's standing near -- [18] Question: "He's standing [19] nearby the bar?" [20] Answer: "He's right on the [21] seat where he was sitting." [22] Question: "So he's sitting on [23] the seat; is that right? He's not down on the [24] floor, right?" [25] Answer: "I really don't know. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 151 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] I saw him get hit, that's all." [3] Question: "Well, that's what [4] I'm trying to understand. When you saw him [5] get hit, where was Seamus at the moment?" [6] Answer: "I thought he was [7] sitting on his stool." [8] "You thought?" Question. "We [9] got to know. Was he on the floor or on the [10] stool?" [11] "He was on the stool." [12] Question: "So he certainly [13] wasn't down on the floor where you couldn't [14] see him. He was sitting right there in plain [15] view." [16] Answer: "Yes." [17] Do you remember those questions [18] being asked to you, Mr. Mooney? [19] A. Yeah, but I'm not reading it, [20] but I can't see where. [21] Q. That's fair enough. But do [22] those questions and answers, do they -- [23] A. Yeah. [24] Q. Were they your answers? [25] A. Yes. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 152 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 38 (page 149 - 152) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. Did you ever at any point [3] during the hearing in August, seven months [4] after Seamus's body was discovered, did you [5] ever tell the judge that day that you saw [6] Seamus get up real quick and reach for [7] something? [8] A. No. [9] Q. You remember it today. [10] A. But I -- go ahead. [11] Q. Let me finish my question. Now [12] four years later you're telling us that. Did [13] anything happen that made you recall that? [14] Did anybody say anything to you? [15] A. No. That's what bothered me [16] about I found the thing in the bar. And then [17] another thing was they were talking, bending [18] down or sitting down on that ledge and they [19] were talking. They didn't want me to know [20] what they were talking about or Goob know what [21] they were talking about. [22] Q. Okay. But the question was, at [23] the preliminary hearing, sir, now, let me ask [24] you a question. If they were behind the bar, [25] they were out of your view? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 153 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] A. Yes. [3] Q. Now, John McLaughlin, he's [4] about six foot two, correct? [5] A. Yes. [6] Q. And Seamus, he was about six [7] foot himself, correct? [8] A. Yes. [9] Q. Okay. And you're saying that [10] they were ducking behind the bar, correct? [11] A. Yeah. They were ducking or [12] sitting. I don't know what they were doing. [13] Q. Okay. And in which case you [14] couldn't see what was going on. [15] A. No. [16] Q. And who knows what was going on [17] down there, right? [18] A. No. [19] Q. That seemed incredibly odd to [20] you, did it not? [21] A. Yes. [22] Q. Okay. Well, at the preliminary [23] hearing, I'm going to continue on, do you [24] remember telling the judge this? Or strike [25] that. Do you remember, ever remember telling Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 154 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] the judge that they were bent behind the bar [3] and you couldn't see them? [4] A. No. Nobody asked me. [5] Q. Well, let me continue on, Mr. [6] Mooney. Question, page 105. "So he [7] certainly" -- [8] A. Which is this? [9] Q. I'll read it to you. See if [10] you remember this. [11] A. Okay. [12] Q. Question: "You thought. We [13] got to know. Was he on the floor or on the [14] stool?" Talking about Seamus. [15] Answer: "He was on the stool." [16] "So he certainly wasn't down on [17] the floor where you couldn't see him. He was [18] sitting right there in plain view." [19] Answer: "Yes." [20] Question: "Now, you're saying [21] there had been words exchanged between them, [22] right? Between Seamus and my client; is that [23] correct?" [24] Answer: "I didn't hear them [25] argue or nothing. He walked behind the bar, Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 155 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] grabbed the bat and started hitting." [3] Question: "Well, that's what [4] I'm trying to find out. Do you know whether [5] there had been any shoving or pushing or [6] anything right before that?" [7] "No." [8] Question: "You don't know [9] that?" [10] "No." [11] Question: "And then you say [12] that John walked behind the bar, got a bat, [13] came back and hit him?" [14] Answer: "Yes." [15] Question: "And when he was [16] hitting him, was he standing up? He was [17] standing up, wasn't he?" [18] Answer: "Who, Seamus?" [19] "Yeah." [20] Answer: "No. He was down on [21] the ground, I believe. John says go upstairs. [22] I went upstairs." [23] Question: "Well, that's what [24] I'm trying to find out. At that point that [25] John hits him with the bat, isn't he standing Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 156 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 39 (page 153 - 156) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] up?" [3] Answer: "I thought he was [4] sitting down when he got hit." [5] Question: "Well, doesn't John [6] hit him until he falls down?" [7] Answer: "Yeah." [8] Question: "So when you're [9] saying he got hit five or six times with a [10] bat, he was standing up? Then he falls down?" [11] Answer: "Yes. He hit him when [12] he's down. Yes." [13] Question: "The reason I'm, the [14] reason I'm trying to ask you whether he's [15] seated or not, do you know?" [16] Answer: "He was sitting is all [17] I know when he got hit with the bat and then [18] he went down on the floor. He may have been [19] on the floor before. All I know is John got [20] the bat and started hitting the guy." [21] Do you hear those answers, Mr. [22] Mooney? [23] A. Yes. [24] Q. Okay. Now, I mean, you told [25] the judge that day that Seamus McLaughlin, Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 157 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Seamus' O'Neill was sitting on his stool when [3] John McLaughlin hit him, correct? [4] A. Yes. [5] Q. Do you ever mention at any [6] point in time that they're ducking behind the [7] bar ever having a conversation? [8] A. No. I wasn't even asked that, [9] I think, in the. [10] Q. Well, sir, they asked you what [11] happened and I'm reading your answers. [12] A. Yeah. They're saying that but [13] I didn't say that. I thought on the Cummings [14] when I gave him the thing. That's why I [15] couldn't hear them, because they were down [16] low. I couldn't see what they were talking [17] about, hear them or what they were doing. [18] Q. Okay. But do you ever remember [19] telling either Detective Cummings -- [20] A. I thought I did tell Detective [21] Cummings. I says that's one of the reasons [22] why I couldn't hear them. [23] Q. And that they were ducked [24] behind the bar? That they were ducking behind [25] the bar? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 158 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] A. They weren't ducking. Say [3] that's the bar. They're not inside the bar. [4] They're on the other side. And they went down [5] doing some kind of transaction, whatever, and [6] they're bent down that way. [7] Q. And, Mr. Mooney, you would [8] agree that that's incredibly unusual behavior, [9] right? [10] A. Yes. [11] Q. Something that you wouldn't [12] forget, correct? Correct? [13] A. Yes. [14] Q. Okay. And what I'm asking you [15] is, I read a statement from Detective Cummings [16] on January seventh and then I just read your [17] notes of testimony. Nowhere in either do you [18] say that they're hiding behind the bar having [19] a conversation. So my question to you is, did [20] anyone prior to today tell you to tell that, [21] say this to the jury? [22] A. No. [23] Q. Did anyone? I asked you about [24] Seamus reaching. You indicated in very [25] dramatic fashion reaching for what appears to Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 159 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] be maybe a gun. You told the jury that today, [3] right? [4] A. Yes. [5] Q. Mr. Mooney, my question to you [6] is this. Did you tell that to Detective [7] Cummings on January seventh? [8] A. No. [9] Q. Did you testify on August of [10] '08, seven months after Mr. O'Neill's death, [11] did you ever tell the judge that day, Judge [12] Deni, that you saw Seamus quickly reach? [13] A. No. [14] Q. Mr. Mooney, my question to you [15] is this. Did anyone tell you to come into [16] this courtroom and tell this jury that Seamus [17] was behind the bar where you couldn't see him [18] and you didn't know what was going on down [19] there and that when he come up at some point [20] he was reaching for something that could have [21] been a gun? Did anyone tell you that? [22] A. No. [23] Q. Are you sure about that? [24] A. Yes. [25] Q. Well, now we get back to where Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 160 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 40 (page 157 - 160) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] we left off at lunchtime. [3] MR. CONROY: Counsel, I'm going [4] to refer to the three statements he gave to [5] the defense investigator. Mr. McMonagle, I'm [6] going to refer to C first, the first statement [7] that is not dated to the defense investigator, [8] Wayne Bowie. Fair enough? [9] MR. McMONAGLE: Okay. [10] BY MR. CONROY: [11] Q. Okay. Just to follow up, the [12] first statement you gave, I just want to touch [13] on one area that I missed earlier this [14] morning. The first statement you gave to [15] Wayne Bowie, and counsel, it's the last, I [16] think it's the last question that you gave. [17] Question: "Did you see?" Now, this is after [18] Mr. McLaughlin, you'd agree, this is after [19] your statements to Detective Cummings, right? [20] When you gave Wayne Bowie's statements, right? [21] A. Yes. [22] Q. After you gave Detective [23] Cummings a statement and after you testified [24] in the courtroom, correct? [25] A. Yes. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 161 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. Okay. Question: "Did you see [3] John McLaughlin or anyone else kill Seamus [4] O'Neill?" [5] Answer: "No." [6] MR. CONROY: May I approach, [7] Judge, just to show the witness exactly where [8] I'm reading from? [9] THE COURT: Yes. [10] MR. CONROY: I apologize for my [11] back. [12] BY MR. CONROY: [13] Q. Mr. Mooney, this the last [14] question that was asked in the first statement [15] you gave to Detective Bowie. I want to go [16] right there, okay? Right there. Do you see [17] that? Put your glasses on. [18] A. It says, "Did you see John [19] McLaughlin or anyone else kill Seamus [20] O'Neill?" [21] Q. What did you tell Wayne Bowie, [22] the defense investigator? What was your [23] answer to him? [24] A. "No." I said, "No." [25] Q. And what? Read the whole Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 162 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] answer. [3] A. "And I never saw John hit [4] Seamus." Well, I didn't, I didn't say that. [5] I says because I don't know if Seamus was [6] killed then or dead. [7] Q. Okay. Well, the question is -- [8] A. I think one time in my [9] statements and that, I said, I said I think [10] Seamus is still alive. [11] Q. But the question reads, Mr. [12] Mooney, "Did you see John McLaughlin or anyone [13] else kill Seamus O'Neill?" [14] Answer: "No, and I never saw [15] John hit Seamus." [16] That's your answer and it's [17] signed with your signature. [18] A. I never. That's what I'm [19] saying. This, you know. I didn't see John [20] McLaughlin kill him. I did see John hit [21] Seamus with a bat. [22] Q. Did anyone pressure you to give [23] this statement, Mr. Mooney? [24] A. No. [25] Q. Well, then your signature is Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 163 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] there. You can read. Explain this. [3] A. I know my signature is there. [4] I don't know what he did with it, how he did [5] it. [6] Q. So you never said that. By the [7] way, Mr. Mooney, the statement I read, the [8] statement you gave to Detective Cummings on [9] January seventh, was that the truth as you saw [10] it? [11] A. Yes. [12] Q. When you testified in court? [13] A. Yeah. In other words, you're [14] seeing the incident. You're giving the [15] testimony, you know, verbatim what I'm, you [16] know, trying to remember and all that. Yeah. [17] Q. At the preliminary hearing when [18] can you come into court and testified, did you [19] tell the truth? [20] A. Yes. [21] Q. Well, let's go up about one, [22] two, three, four, five questions before that [23] on that same page. "Is everything that you [24] said in your interviews and at the preliminary [25] hearing true?" Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 164 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 41 (page 161 - 164) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Your answer to Wayne Bowie, the [3] defense investigator, is: "None that I'm" -- [4] I don't understand the word. [5] MR. CONROY: Mr. McMonagle, do [6] you see that word? [7] MR. McMONAGLE: What page are [8] you on, Jude? [9] MR. CONROY: I'm sorry. It's [10] the last. It's page five of five on [11] Commonwealth Exhibit C-9C. It's the one, two, [12] three, fourth question down. I'm unsure of [13] that answer. It says, "None that I'm sure, my [14] answer is no." [15] MR. DiFABIO: I think it says, [16] "Now that I'm sober." [17] MR. McMONAGLE: "Now that I'm [18] sober." [19] MR. CONROY: Oh. "Now that I'm [20] sober." Okay. [21] BY MR. CONROY: [22] Q. "Is everything that you said in [23] your interviews and at the preliminary hearing [24] true?" [25] "Now that I'm sober, my answer Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 165 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] is no." [3] Why did you tell the defense [4] investigator Wayne Bowie that you lied at the [5] preliminary hearing? Why did you tell him [6] that? [7] A. I didn't tell him. Like I'm [8] saying, these papers are doctored up. [9] Q. Mr. Mooney, I want to go next [10] to the second statement you gave to the [11] defense investigator. I want to pick up where [12] we left off this morning. This is a statement [13] you gave to, second statement you gave to the [14] defense investigator and it's dated, I [15] believe, August seventh, 2010, about two years [16] after your preliminary hearing testimony. [17] "On January second I started my [18] shift, which is normally from eleven A to [19] seven P, at about 10:30 a.m. As I did every [20] morning, I went downstairs and I used a large [21] plastic ice bucket to bring up the ice from [22] the basement to the ice bin under the bar. I [23] may have brought up a case or two of beer, put [24] it in the beer boxes. I drank alcohol during [25] my shift and that ended at seven P. I Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 166 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] remained at the end of the bar and continued [3] drinking. [4] "At about 1:30 to 1:45 a.m., [5] someone knocked at the front door and Goober [6] buzzed him in. Seamus O'Neill walked into the [7] bar and eventually ended up at the other end [8] of the bar where we were. Goober left from [9] behind the bar and went into the bathroom for [10] what seemed like a long time. I got up from [11] my seat and walked over to the beer box, [12] opened it and got a can of beer. As I closed [13] the beer box door and I turned to my right, [14] Seamus jumped up and I saw the black handle of [15] a gun in the waistband." [16] Do you see that? [17] A. No. I ain't reading it. I [18] don't see it. But I -- [19] MR. CONROY: May I approach, [20] Judge? [21] THE COURT: Sure. [22] THE WITNESS: I didn't say I [23] saw a handle of a gun. He wasn't -- [24] BY MR. CONROY: [25] Q. I'm going to, right down there, Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 167 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Mr. Mooney. Do you see that? [3] A. Right. [4] Q. I'll read that to you slowly. [5] "As I closed the beer box door and turned to [6] my right, Seamus jumped up and I saw the [7] handle of a gun in his waistband." There's a [8] notary seal there which cuts off some of the [9] answer, but that's what it says. "Seamus [10] jumped up and I saw the black handle of a gun [11] from his waistband." [12] Do you see that? [13] A. Yes. [14] Q. Okay. Now, that's in a [15] statement that you gave to a defense [16] investigator August seventh, 2010. [17] A. Yeah. [18] Q. Would it be fair to say, Mr. [19] Mooney, first off, did you say that? [20] A. I didn't say it like that. [21] There was something in his waistband. It [22] could have been a cell phone or a, or he was [23] pulling his belt up. [24] Q. By the way, Mr. Mooney, if I [25] can back up, when was it that John McLaughlin Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 168 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 42 (page 165 - 168) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] wanted you to tell the police that Seamus had [3] a gun? [4] A. It was, I think you, it was the [5] Sunday after the incident. [6] Q. So would it be fair to say that [7] it's actually about a little over two and a [8] half years, two and a half years after Seamus [9] O'Neill's body is discovered in the basement [10] of the bar, that's the first time you ever go [11] on paper saying anything about Seamus O'Neill [12] having a gun? Would that be fair to say? [13] A. Yes. [14] Q. Now, the words that I read, did [15] you tell Wayne Bowie that Seamus pulled out a [16] gun and you saw the handle of a gun? [17] A. No. [18] Q. Where did these words come [19] from? [20] A. I, I don't know. [21] Q. Was he pressuring you? [22] A. No. He just -- I don't know [23] where he said that at, you know. [24] Q. Next page. Question: "Were [25] you scared when you saw the gun?" Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 169 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] A. Yeah. [3] Q. Answer: "Yes." [4] A. I didn't see no gun. I said [5] that in my statement before. [6] Q. I'm just reading it. [7] A. Yeah. Well, this is all [8] malarkey stuff. [9] Q. Whose signature is down the [10] bottom? [11] A. Mine. [12] Q. And there's a notary seal [13] there. [14] A. I know, but I don't know how, [15] you know. [16] Q. Well, did you tell -- [17] A. This ain't my words from [18] verbatim. [19] Q. Okay. Did you tell Wayne Bowie [20] that Seamus had a gun? [21] A. No. [22] Q. Are you sure about that? [23] A. Yeah. [24] Q. Nobody pressured you to say [25] that? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 170 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] A. No. [3] Q. Let me continue on. "Were you [4] scared?" Question: "Were you scared when you [5] saw the gun?" [6] Answer: "Yes." [7] "Were you scared when Seamus [8] jumped up?" [9] Answer: "Yes." [10] Question. "Did you see Seamus [11] react, reach for his waistband in the area of [12] the gun?" [13] Answer: "Yes." [14] Question: "Were you afraid [15] that Seamus was going to use the gun?" [16] Answer: "I was scared [17] shitless." [18] Did you say that to Wayne [19] Bowie? [20] A. No. I was, I was scared when [21] he went, you know, went like that because I [22] didn't know what this was. [23] Q. Okay. [24] A. But I told you I didn't see no [25] gun. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 171 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. I know, but there's a statement [3] here that says, that's provided by the defense [4] by Wayne Bowie saying that you told him that [5] Seamus had a gun. Did you ever see Seamus [6] with a gun, Mr. Mooney? [7] A. No. [8] Q. "What did you do next?" [9] Answer: "I punched him in the [10] front of his shoulder." [11] Question: "Were you [12] intoxicated at this time of day?" [13] "Yeah. I had quite a few." [14] Question: "Were you [15] intoxicated when you gave a statement to the [16] police on January fourth, '08?" [17] "Absolutely, plus I was [18] scared." [19] Question: "Were you [20] intoxicated when you gave a statement to the [21] police on January seventh?" [22] Answer: "I sure was." [23] By the way, Mr. Mooney, there [24] were, there are no followup questions. You [25] say that Seamus reached up and grabbed a gun, Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 172 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 43 (page 169 - 172) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] according to you. [3] A. No, I didn't say he had a gun. [4] Q. Okay. That's what the [5] statement says. [6] A. I said he went and reached by [7] his waistband. [8] Q. Okay. By the way, did you [9] ever, did the investigator Wayne Bowie, did he [10] ever follow up? You say in this statement [11] that you pushed Seamus O'Neill, correct? In [12] the statement. [13] A. Yes. I didn't push. I went, [14] "Yo," like that, on the shoulder. I says, [15] "Yo, I'm getting a beer." Because I didn't, I [16] don't know why he jumped up. [17] Q. Okay. [18] A. Because they didn't want me to [19] know what they were talking about. [20] Q. Would it be fair to say, Mr. [21] Mooney, that this statement August 2010, two [22] and a half years after Seamus's body was [23] found, this is the first time you mention ever [24] to pushing Seamus and to mentioning that [25] Seamus had a gun? Would it be fair to say Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 173 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] this is the first time? [3] A. Yes. [4] Q. Mr. Mooney, there was actually [5] I think, if I can follow up, they asked you [6] some followup questions that day. "Mr. [7] Mooney, I'm going to take this to a notary [8] public to notarize this statement if its [9] contents are true and correct. Mr. Mooney, I [10] have a few more questions. The gun that Rick [11] found and put on the bar, do you recognize it? [12] Answer: "It looks similar to [13] the handle that Seamus had." [14] A. That's, I didn't say that. [15] Q. Mr. Mooney, my question to you [16] is that's what this statement reads. [17] A. Well, that's not true then. [18] Q. "It looks similar to the handle [19] that Seamus had." [20] Question: "What did you do [21] with the gun?" [22] Answer: "I put it behind the [23] bar." [24] Question: "Did you or anyone [25] else keep guns in the bar?" Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 174 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Answer: "No." [3] A. Yes. [4] Q. Okay. My question to you, Mr. [5] Mooney, is did you tell Wayne Bowie that the [6] gun found in the bar looks like the one that [7] Seamus O'Neill had? [8] A. No. [9] Q. Is that true? [10] A. Yes. [11] Q. I mean, did you see Seamus with [12] a gun? [13] A. No. [14] Q. Okay. I'm just asking you. [15] Mr. Mooney, you actually gave one more [16] statement to a defense investigator, did you [17] not, sir? [18] A. I believe I did. [19] Q. Your first statement to the [20] defense investigator said, and I'm [21] paraphrasing now, the first statement you gave [22] undated says you didn't see anything happen, [23] correct? Fair enough? [24] THE COURT: First statement. [25] BY MR. CONROY: Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 175 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. The first statement you gave to [3] Wayne Bowie that I read a little while ago, [4] you said I didn't see anything. I went to the [5] bar. I went drinking upstairs and then I [6] left, nothing happened. Do you remember [7] telling that to Wayne Bowie? [8] A. Yeah, but no. You're getting [9] me confused. Where is it? Let me read it. [10] MR. CONROY: May I approach, [11] Judge? [12] THE COURT: Sure. [13] BY MR. CONROY: [14] Q. C-9C, Mr. Mooney, is a [15] statement you gave to Mr. Bowie, the defense [16] investigator, and I read that to the jury [17] earlier, and in that statement you say that [18] you didn't see anything happen. Do you [19] remember that? [20] A. Yes. [21] Q. Okay. [22] A. No. Well, I saw John hit [23] Seamus with the bat. [24] Q. I know, but in the statement [25] that you gave to the defense investigator Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 176 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 44 (page 173 - 176) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Mr. Bowie, the first one you gave. [3] A. Yeah. [4] Q. The first one you gave and I've [5] read it, you say, -- I'll just read the last [6] paragraph -- "After a while, Seamus came down [7] to my end of the bar and had a conversation [8] with John. The conversation was pleasant. [9] There was no yelling or anything. I grabbed a [10] bottle of Irish Mist and some beer and me and [11] Goober went upstairs and we sat down and [12] drank. By about 2:30, I was totally smashed [13] and I left and went home. I returned to the [14] bar on January fourth, 2008, and opened up at [15] 1:30." [16] The last question towards the [17] end of that first statement to the defense [18] investigator, by Mr. Bowie to you: "On the [19] night of January second and the morning of the [20] third, did you ever see John McLaughlin hit [21] Seamus O'Neill?" [22] "No." [23] "Did you see John and Seamus [24] arguing?" [25] "No." Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 177 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] "Did you see blood on the [3] floor?" [4] Answer: "No." [5] "Who was upstairs with you?" [6] "Bob Evans. We call him Goob." [7] In that statement, Mr. Mooney, [8] you tell Wayne Bowie that you didn't see [9] anything happen. Is this statement truthful? [10] A. No. [11] Q. The second statement that I [12] just read to you, in that statement you say [13] Seamus O'Neill, now you go from seeing nothing [14] to now Seamus is pulling a gun, correct? That [15] statement reads that. Is that true? The [16] second statement where you say Seamus is [17] pulling a gun that you gave to Wayne Bowie. [18] Is that truthful? [19] A. Which one is that now? You got [20] me confused. [21] Q. I know, Mr. Mooney. There's a [22] lot of statements here. D, the second [23] statement you gave to the defense investigator [24] where you say -- I just read it -- where you [25] say Seamus O'Neill was reaching for a gun. Is Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 178 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] that second statement true? [3] A. No. [4] Q. Okay. Let's move to the third [5] one. Do you remember giving a third [6] statement, Mr. Mooney? [7] A. Yes. [8] Q. And do you remember what you [9] said? [10] A. Not really. [11] Q. Well, it's a pretty memorable [12] one and it's dated October twenty-second, [13] 2010. As you sit here today, do you have any [14] idea what you said to Wayne Bowie, sir? [15] A. No. [16] Q. Okay. Well, let me see if I [17] can refresh your recollection, and see if [18] these are your words. [19] A. Well, what? [20] MR. CONROY: May I approach, [21] Judge? [22] THE COURT: Sure. Show him the [23] right statement. [24] BY MR. CONROY: [25] Q. Here you go, Mr. Mooney. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 179 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] That's the last statement, the third. "Mr. [3] Mooney, have you had any alcohol" -- this is [4] the way the statement reads. "Mr. Mooney, [5] have you had any alcohol or drugs in the past [6] twenty-four hours?" [7] Answer: "No." [8] "Please go on in your own words [9] and tell me what you recall." [10] Mr. Mooney, see if you recall [11] this answer. "I need to get this off my [12] chest, because it's been bothering me since it [13] happened. I was in McWhitey's Bar when Seamus [14] O'Neill came in. He came to the end of the [15] bar where I was sitting and drinking. When [16] Seamus became loud and threatened to kill me, [17] Goober left the bar and went into the [18] bathroom. When Seamus reached for a gun in [19] his waistband, I was standing by the opening [20] at the end of the bar and remember striking [21] him back." That's the way it reads. "I must [22] have blanked out. I don't remember what [23] happened next." [24] Mr. Mooney, would it be fair to [25] say that that is the answer that appears on Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 180 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 45 (page 177 - 180) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] that page? Did I read that correctly? [3] A. Yeah. [4] Q. And there's a signature at the [5] bottom. [6] A. Yes. [7] Q. Whose signature on that? [8] A. Mine. [9] Q. And there's a notary seal on [10] the second page with a signature. Whose [11] signature on that? [12] A. Mine. But like I was [13] saying, -- [14] THE COURT: Hold on. There's [15] no question. [16] BY MR. CONROY: [17] Q. Mr. Mooney, just let me ask you [18] the question. I'll let you explain all you [19] want. I just need to, I have to ask the [20] questions. Mr. Mooney, on October [21] twenty-second, 2010, you admitted to a first [22] degree murder, to beating someone. Or I'll [23] rephrase that. [24] MR. McMONAGLE: Objection, Your [25] Honor. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 181 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] THE COURT: Sustained. [3] MR. CONROY: I'll rephrase it. [4] BY MR. CONROY: [5] Q. You admitted to beating Seamus [6] O'Neill. [7] A. Well, that's a lie. [8] Q. Did you tell the defense [9] investigator that you killed Seamus? [10] A. No. [11] Q. Well, then why does it say [12] here, Mr. Mooney, "I was standing by the [13] opening at the end of the bar and remember [14] striking him back"? That's what it says here. [15] A. Well, like I said, I went "Yo" [16] when he jumped up. I went "Yo," like that. I [17] hit him on the shoulder. [18] Q. Mr. Mooney, did you ever strike [19] anyone with a bat? [20] A. No. [21] Q. You're under oath. Did you [22] ever, ever touch Seamus O'Neill with a [23] baseball bat? [24] A. No. [25] Q. Who hit Seamus with a baseball Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 182 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] bat? [3] A. John McLaughlin. [4] Q. Mr. Mooney, has anyone from the [5] date of when you gave your first statement to [6] the police, has anyone threatened you? [7] A. No. [8] Q. I'm going to ask you to take a [9] look at a picture, if we can. I'm going to [10] mark it as the next Commonwealth exhibit, [11] C-10. [12] THE COURT: C-10 will be so [13] marked. [14] MR. McMONAGLE: Judge, may we [15] see you briefly? [16] THE COURT: Sure. [17] (The following conference was [18] held at sidebar.) [19] MR. McMONAGLE: Judge, can I [20] get an offer of proof as to this? [21] MR. CONROY: Judge, I mentioned [22] it this morning, maybe not on the record. I [23] mentioned it this morning, Judge. I don't [24] want the jury to. I mentioned to counsel this [25] morning that when I prepped Mooney yesterday, Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 183 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] he said he tried to buy Rich Stephens -- [3] THE COURT: What's that? [4] MR. CONROY: Mooney was in a [5] bar one night after this. He was in a bar and [6] tried to buy Rich Stephens, who the defendant [7] was texting on the morning of the incident, [8] who owns a waste disposal company, "I need [9] your help." After this, Mooney ran into him [10] in a bar, said can I buy you a drink. He said [11] no, I don't want a drink from a rat, I ought [12] to slit your throat. [13] I'm just going to introduce it [14] to show his state of mind, not necessarily [15] attribute it to him, if you want to give a [16] cautionary, if you want to give a state of [17] mind. [18] MR. McMONAGLE: It is [19] enormously prejudicial. It is a threat that [20] comes from another. There is no suggestion [21] that Mr. McLaughlin asked anybody to threaten [22] this witness, let alone some guy that to my [23] knowledge since he's been in custody there's [24] no suggestion he had interaction with [25] regarding threats. The prejudicial impact is Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 184 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 46 (page 181 - 184) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] enormous. [3] THE COURT: Is he going to [4] testify? [5] MR. McMONAGLE: Not for the [6] defense. [7] MR. CONROY: Judge, I've [8] subpoenaed him. [9] MR. McMONAGLE: You can ask [10] Stephens that, but to ask this witness that. [11] THE COURT: You can ask [12] Stephens that. At this point I'm not going to [13] allow it. [14] MR. CONROY: Only because it [15] goes to his state of mind as to why he's doing [16] what he's doing. [17] THE COURT: Well, I think that [18] the statement as to the rat can come in. I [19] don't think the statement as to slitting the [20] throat. Because that may go to his state of [21] mind as to why he's coming back. [22] MR. CONROY: So I can get that [23] out. [24] THE COURT: I think the rat [25] comes in. I don't think slitting a throat Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 185 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] does. [3] MR. McMONAGLE: I mean, the [4] problem I think we have here is I don't have [5] any doubt about Mr. Conroy's argument that [6] somebody threatened him, but this guy says he [7] hasn't been threatened. The defendant clearly [8] didn't threaten him. And whether somebody [9] else out there did it, without any tie in to [10] the defendant in terms of a suggestion -- [11] THE COURT: Let's see if we can [12] get Mr. Stephens in. [13] MR. CONROY: So you don't want [14] me. [15] THE COURT: No. [16] (Conference held at sidebar [17] concluded.) [18] THE COURT: You may proceed. [19] BY MR. CONROY: [20] Q. Let me rephrase my question. [21] Mr. Mooney, in this statement, Commonwealth [22] Exhibit C-9E, the statement reads, the [23] statement I just read, Mr. Mooney, wherein it [24] says that you admitted to hitting Mr. O'Neill, [25] did you tell that to Wayne Bowie? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 186 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] A. No. [3] Q. The statement continues. [4] Question: "Do you recall who else was in the [5] bar at this time?" [6] "Yeah. I think it was me, [7] John. It was, I think, maybe John, me and [8] Goober." [9] "Who is Goober?" [10] "My friend Bob Evans." [11] By the way, Mr. Mooney, that [12] night, just so it's clear, when you say that [13] John McLaughlin struck Seamus, who was in the [14] bar? Who was present? [15] A. Me and Bob Evans, Goober. [16] Q. Anybody else? [17] A. No. [18] Q. "Do you recall Mike Lund or [19] Sean Fenton in the bar at this time?" This is [20] the statement, the same statement you admit to [21] hitting Seamus with the bat. [22] You say, "They could have been. [23] I was pretty piss-eyed. It was three years [24] ago and I don't remember." [25] Let me ask you a question. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 187 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] A. I -- [3] Q. Mr. Mooney, let me ask you the [4] question. [5] A. Go ahead. [6] Q. I just read your answer. Mr. [7] Mooney, Michael Lund, do you know him? [8] A. Yes. [9] Q. I'm going to show you a picture [10] of him in a minute. Was he in the bar that [11] night? [12] A. No. [13] Q. Let me rephrase that. Was he [14] in the bar at the time that John hit Seamus? [15] A. No. [16] Q. Let me ask you to take a look. [17] Counsel, I have picture I'm going to show. [18] THE COURT: Can we hit the [19] lights? [20] BY MR. CONROY: [21] Q. Do you recognize that [22] individual? [23] A. Where is he at? Oh. [24] Q. Who is that? [25] A. That's Michael Lund. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 188 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 47 (page 185 - 188) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. Was he in the bar that night [3] was Seamus was beaten? [4] A. No. [5] Q. Any doubt in your mind? [6] A. No. [7] MR. CONROY: Thank you. You [8] can turn the lights on. [9] BY MR. CONROY: [10] Q. Any reason why you would tell [11] Wayne Bowie, the defense investigator, that he [12] may have been there? [13] A. Like I'm saying, this is a lot [14] of malarkey, this stuff. [15] Q. Let me ask you. By the way, [16] Mr. Mooney, -- [17] A. Wayne Bowie did ask me some [18] questions and I answered them, and this thing [19] about what's getting under my chest is I said [20] I saw no gun. I did see, remember what's you [21] call it, Ricky pointing it to me that look, [22] and there was a gun on the bar. So what I did [23] is I picked it up. I didn't really. I put it [24] underneath the thing. I didn't know it was [25] evidence or what the hell it was. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 189 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. Okay. And that's fair enough. [3] A. Okay? [4] Q. Okay. That's fair enough. [5] A. Yeah. And a couple of the [6] other questions I didn't say or they're [7] doctored up or something. [8] Q. Okay. [9] A. And that was what was under my [10] chest. [11] Q. You wanted to make sure that [12] the police knew that there was a gun that [13] eventually Ricky recovered, correct? Right? [14] That he found in the bar. You wanted to make [15] sure the police knew about that, right? [16] A. Yeah. Ricky pointed it to me. [17] He didn't put it on the bar. He pointed to [18] me. [19] Q. And I'll show you in the photos [20] and I'll see if you recognize where it was [21] pulled from. But my question to you, Mr. [22] Mooney, is this. I know you wanted to make [23] sure the police knew that, but did you ever [24] see that gun in Seamus's hand? That's the [25] question. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 190 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] A. No. [3] Q. Did you ever see him pull it [4] out? [5] A. No. [6] Q. Do you know a guy by the name [7] of Joe Sheeber? [8] A. Yes. [9] Q. Who's Joe Sheeber? [10] A. He's a patron comes in the bar. [11] Q. He's a friend of who? He's a [12] friend of who? Is he a friend of the [13] defendant's? [14] A. A friend of John, a friend of [15] me. [16] Q. How old is this Joe Sheeber, or [17] how old would he be? [18] A. He's passed away. [19] Q. But how old would he be? Was [20] he your age or was he the defendant's age? [21] A. He's about John's age. [22] Q. Continuing on with the [23] statement you gave to Wayne Bowie on October [24] twenty-second, 2010. Page two, counsel, Mr. [25] McMonagle. Mr. Mooney, this the question. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 191 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] "Did you happen to see Sammy Toy in the bar [3] during the night of January second, 2008, or [4] afterwards? [5] Answer: "I don't remember [6] seeing him." [7] Question: "Why was Seamus [8] O'Neill so angry and threatening you with a [9] gun?" [10] Answer: "He placed a bet with [11] me and hit. I gave him some money earlier in [12] the week and he was supposed to come back on [13] Friday for the rest, but he came in drunk and [14] early. I had every intention of paying him at [15] the end of the week like we agreed." [16] Do you see that answer, Mr. [17] Mooney, that I read? [18] A. I hear you read it. I didn't [19] see it. Hold on a minute. [20] Q. It's page two. It's that [21] statement right there. [22] A. This one here? [23] Q. Yeah. Put your glasses on. [24] It's page two. [25] A. But that's a lie. I never gave Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 192 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 48 (page 189 - 192) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Seamus any money. [3] Q. Did Seamus owe you any money? [4] A. No. [5] Q. Or did you owe Seamus any [6] money? [7] A. No. [8] Q. Did he play any numbers with [9] you in the last year or so? [10] A. No. [11] Q. Well, then why does your [12] signature appear at the bottom of this [13] statement? [14] A. Like I'm saying, this was [15] documented up somehow. [16] Q. Continuing on, "Was Seamus [17] O'Neill a regular at the bar?" [18] Answer: "No. He was flagged [19] by the previous owner." [20] Question: "Were you scared [21] when Seamus pulled the gun?" [22] "Scared shitless." [23] Did you tell that to Wayne [24] Bowie? [25] A. No. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 193 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. "Did you think Seamus was going [3] to kill you?" [4] "I sure did." [5] Do you see that answer? [6] A. Where is that at? C-9E? [7] Q. Yeah. "Did you think Seamus [8] was going to kill you?" [9] Answer: "I sure did." [10] Did you tell that to Mr. Bowie? [11] A. No. But you keep repeating [12] these questions to me. I'm telling you, this [13] all a lot of malarkey. [14] Q. Okay. I have to ask you these [15] questions, Mr. Mooney, because these are [16] statements that are signed by you. [17] A. Yes. Okay. [18] Q. Okay? And the jury needs to [19] know if Seamus owed you any money and you beat [20] him to death. [21] A. No. No. I didn't owe Seamus [22] no money. [23] Q. Did anyone in regard to this [24] statement where you admit hitting Seamus with [25] a bat, did anyone threaten you, Mr. Mooney? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 194 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] A. No. [3] Q. Mr. Mooney, I want to get to [4] from the time that Seamus was beaten on [5] January third of 2008 and up until November [6] first of 2011, during that entire four-year [7] period, did you ever write any letters to the [8] defendant John McLaughlin in prison? [9] A. Yes. [10] Q. Okay. Do you remember when [11] that was? [12] A. No. [13] Q. Does the date November [14] twenty-second, 2011, about four years after [15] the incident, ring a bell? [16] A. I did write a letter, yes. [17] Q. Before I read the ladies and [18] gentlemen the letter, can you tell the ladies [19] and gentlemen of the jury the circumstances [20] surrounding the writing of this letter? Tell [21] them how this letter was written. [22] A. Well, I got a copy of the paper [23] and was asked write John, you know, write [24] John. [25] Q. Mr. Mooney, let me back up. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 195 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Where did you write this letter? [3] A. At my house. [4] Q. And before you wrote the [5] letter, did anyone show up at your house? [6] A. What do you mean by that? [7] Wayne Bowie. [8] Q. Wayne Bowie showed up. And all [9] of a sudden, next thing you know you're [10] writing a letter to the defendant, right? [11] A. Yes. [12] Q. And who was it that encouraged [13] you to write this letter to John McLaughlin? [14] A. Wayne Bowie. [15] Q. And did you expect Wayne Bowie [16] to be at your house? [17] A. No. [18] Q. He just showed up? [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. And what did he tell you about [21] writing a letter to John McLaughlin? [22] A. He says it will make, you know, [23] maybe make John feel good. [24] Q. Okay. And what did you say? [25] A. Yes. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 196 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 49 (page 193 - 196) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. You agreed to do it. The [3] contents of the letter, Mr. Mooney, where did [4] the words that are written on there, where did [5] they come from? [6] A. Well, he had other statements [7] in there, like, about a number. I says I'm [8] not writing that in there. [9] Q. Wait a minute. Back up. The [10] ladies and gentlemen weren't there. Did he [11] give you a script of what to write? [12] A. Yeah. [13] Q. What was it written on? [14] A. Well, it was written on paper, [15] like, a looseleaf paper. [16] Q. And on that piece of paper that [17] Wayne Bowie showed up at your house almost [18] four years after Seamus O'Neill's body was [19] found, when he shows up with that piece of [20] paper saying that it would be helpful to John [21] if you wrote a letter, tell these people the [22] ladies and gentlemen of the jury what was on [23] that piece of paper. [24] A. Well, it started out with that [25] I took a number off of Seamus, which I Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 197 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] wouldn't write in the letter. I said I ain't [3] writing that. And then I think he says, and [4] then it says how are you doing, John? Sorry, [5] you know, that this has all happened and [6] blah-blah, you know. I'm sorry I didn't, you [7] know, help you on the jury or something, you [8] know. Maybe I said the wrong thing and I [9] couldn't help you out or anything like that. [10] Q. So the contents of the letter [11] were given to you by Wayne Bowie. [12] A. Yes. [13] Q. After he shows you this, what [14] do you then do, Mr. Mooney? [15] A. I copied it, what he had [16] written down. [17] Q. You copied it? [18] A. Yeah. [19] Q. See if you recall this. See if [20] this is the letter. "Dear John: I've been [21] wanting to write to you forever. I was going [22] to visit you but I didn't think you wanted to [23] see me. My life is a total mess I can't live [24] with any longer. I just have to tell the [25] truth about what went down at the bar that Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 198 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] night. I was scared to death. I'm old. I [3] wish none of this happened. I was nervous and [4] didn't know what to do. The police threatened [5] to lock me up and my sister up. They pushed [6] me around and choked me. They took my money. [7] So I have told them what to hear. So I told [8] them what to hear. It doesn't make it right [9] what I said at the hearing. [10] "I know I fucked up but I [11] didn't know what else to do. I'm so sorry. [12] I don't want anything do. I don't want [13] anything do with the trail," meaning trial, I [14] assume. "I am still scared at the police for [15] what they done to me. I hope to see you home [16] soon. Your friend, Moon." [17] Did you write that? [18] A. Yes. [19] Q. And where did the words come [20] from? [21] A. From a piece of paper, and I [22] eliminated some other stuff he had written [23] down. [24] Q. And I don't have this in the [25] computer, Mr. McMonagle, but at some point Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 199 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] we'll have it in there. I'll put it in there [3] for counsel. There's a name John McLaughlin [4] and there's an address. Where did the address [5] come from? [6] A. Wayne Bowie gave it to me. [7] Q. And there's some other [8] identifying information where the letter [9] should be sent and there's also like an [10] identification number on the letter. Do you [11] see that, Mr. Mooney? [12] MR. CONROY: May I approach, [13] Your Honor? [14] THE COURT: Sure. [15] BY MR. CONROY: [16] Q. See that identifying [17] information? It says there's a six-digit [18] letter. [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. CFCF. PP. There's 824778. Do [21] you see that written on there? [22] A. Yes. [23] Q. Who wrote that? [24] A. I did. [25] Q. Right? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 200 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 50 (page 197 - 200) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] A. I wrote it. [3] Q. Okay. Well, where did you get [4] that information? [5] A. Wayne Bowie. [6] Q. Did you know this information [7] of your own knowledge? [8] A. No. [9] Q. Who mailed the letter? [10] A. Wayne Bowie. [11] Q. Is there anything else he did [12] unusual in front of you when the letter was [13] written? Who picked letter up and put it in [14] the envelope? [15] A. Wayne Bowie. [16] Q. And how did he do that? [17] A. Like this. He had a piece of [18] paper and put a thing in there and picked it [19] up like that. [20] Q. Why did he do that? [21] A. I guess he didn't want his [22] fingerprints on it. [23] Q. Where did that happen, Mr. [24] Mooney? [25] A. At my house where I live at. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 201 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] It ain't my house. [3] Q. And I don't want to know where [4] you live. Mr. Mooney, did you at any point in [5] time? I don't want to know where you live. [6] Do you still live in the neighborhood? [7] A. Yes. The address I gave you, [8] you know. [9] Q. You don't have to give us the [10] address, but do you still live in the [11] neighborhood? [12] A. Yes. [13] Q. Mr. Mooney, in this letter you [14] say, essentially, that I lied to the police [15] about what happened. Did you lie to the [16] police? [17] A. No. [18] Q. And it says what I testified to [19] at the hearing, that wasn't right. Why did [20] you write this stuff, Mr. Mooney? Why did you [21] do this? [22] A. Well, I don't know what. I [23] just wrote the letter to get, you know, Wayne, [24] get him off, you know. Here, I'll write it [25] and beat it, you know, get out of here. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 202 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. Did you want to help the [3] defendant, John McLaughlin? [4] A. Yeah, but I would not lie on [5] oath, when I take the oath. [6] MR. CONROY: Court's [7] indulgence, Your Honor. [8] THE COURT: Sure. [9] MR. CONROY: Mr. Mooney, I'm [10] going to ask you to take a look with the [11] Court's permission, Your Honor, at a couple of [12] photographs. [13] THE COURT: Okay. Put them up [14] there. Hit the light. Great. That's fine. [15] BY MR. CONROY: [16] Q. If we could take a look at [17] Commonwealth Exhibit C-1-3. Mr. Mooney, [18] taking a look at Commonwealth Exhibit C-1-3, [19] do you recognize that photograph? [20] A. It looks like the picture of [21] the bar. [22] Q. Okay. And there is the front [23] entrance? [24] A. Yes. [25] Q. Side entrance? You mentioned Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 203 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] some Bilco doors. Are they present in the [3] photograph? [4] A. I can't see it good from here, [5] but it's right, it's -- [6] Q. Here, we'll pull it out for [7] you, Mr. Mooney. [8] A. Yeah, there. [9] Q. Okay. Fair enough. The door, [10] you indicated Seamus O'Neill came into the [11] bar. Do you know, what door did he come in, [12] Mr. Mooney? [13] A. The front door. [14] Q. Would that be the door right [15] there? [16] A. Yes. [17] Q. Mr. Mooney, you also indicated [18] at some point in time when you exited the bar [19] on the morning of the fourth of January, 2008, [20] that there was a dump truck. There was a dump [21] truck outside. Do you ever remember seeing [22] that dump truck outside, Mr. Mooney? [23] A. Yes. [24] Q. If I may, taking a look now at [25] Commonwealth Exhibit C-1-6, Mr. Mooney, do you Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 204 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 51 (page 201 - 204) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] recognize what photograph? [3] A. Yes. It's inside of the bar. [4] Q. Mr. Mooney, I want to ask you. [5] I have the laser pointer and I'll point it [6] wherever you want. Where were you seated when [7] Seamus O'Neill came into the bar at 1:45 a.m. [8] on the third of January? [9] A. Right by that radiator. [10] Q. Here? [11] A. Yeah, about there. Maybe a [12] little farther. Yeah. [13] Q. You're sitting, I think you [14] said, on the Mercer Street side? [15] A. Mercer Street. That's the [16] Mercer Street side. Yes. [17] Q. Where was Defendant John [18] McLaughlin seated, Mr. Mooney? [19] A. On the other side. [20] Q. There? [21] A. About there. [22] Q. Where which number is? Which [23] letter? [24] A. L. [25] Q. L? Okay. And when Seamus Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 205 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] O'Neill came into the bar, where was he? [3] Where was Seamus O'Neill seated when he came [4] into the bar? [5] A. Down by the front door. [6] Q. Down in this area? [7] A. Yeah. [8] Q. Okay. And where was Goob? [9] A. Goob was behind the bar. [10] Q. Mr. Mooney, I think you told [11] the ladies and gentlemen of the jury that [12] after a drink or two Mr. O'Neill then went [13] around and sat next to John McLaughlin. [14] A. Yes. [15] Q. Which way did he walk? [16] A. Around that way. [17] Q. This way? [18] A. Yeah. [19] Q. He sat next to John, correct? [20] A. Yes. [21] Q. And would it be fair to say [22] that John McLaughlin was closer to the beer [23] case than Seamus was? [24] A. Yes. [25] Q. Okay. I think you indicated Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 206 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] that while Seamus was seated in his chair, you [3] said somewhat of an argument took place, the [4] contents of which you don't know, but then [5] John McLaughlin went behind the bar and [6] grabbed a bat. Do you see the area? Do you [7] see where in the bar John McLaughlin went? [8] A. Yes. [9] Q. Where is that, sir? [10] A. All the way down the front of [11] the bar. Down there, right there. [12] Q. You're indicating almost at the [13] end of what is a, what would be described as a [14] beer case on the right-hand side looking at [15] this photograph. Fair enough? [16] A. Yeah. [17] Q. Okay. And if we can back out [18] of that frame and just stay with that. Where [19] was Seamus O'Neill seated or where was he [20] standing at the time, Mr. Mooney, that he was [21] hit with the bat? [22] A. Right where I told you before, [23] right there. [24] Q. Right where the L is? [25] A. Yeah, L. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 207 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. Fair enough. Mr. Mooney, if I [3] may, taking a look at, I think you indicated, [4] if we can, taking a look -- by the way, you [5] indicated that at some point, I think it was [6] in the first statement or one of the [7] statements given to the defense investigator, [8] I think you indicated that Seamus and John [9] McLaughlin were somehow ducking behind the [10] bar? [11] A. Yes. [12] Q. And where was that? [13] A. Yes. [14] Q. Where is that? [15] A. Well, right there. [16] Q. Okay. [17] A. The vertical, you know, [18] distance between the top of the bar to the [19] floor. [20] Q. And when you're sitting right [21] across from the two of them, you can't see [22] what they're doing, right? Is that what [23] you're telling us? [24] A. I couldn't see them. [25] Q. You realize that's a three-foot Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 208 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 52 (page 205 - 208) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] area, right, Mr. Mooney? Or approximately a [3] three-foot area. Correct? [4] A. Well, I don't know the exact [5] distance of the bar. It might be four feet. [6] Q. Okay. [7] A. But the distance between [8] between the side of the bar and to the wall is [9] about three and a half, two and a half feet, [10] three feet, something like that. [11] Q. By the way, I think, Mr. [12] Mooney, I think you indicated that eventually [13] that you went downstairs at some point on [14] Friday morning and observed Seamus's body, [15] correct? [16] A. Yes. [17] Q. By the way, if I may, if we can [18] refer just briefly in this photograph, where [19] was it that you saw Sammy Toy cleaning up the [20] blood on the floor? [21] A. Right around J. [22] Q. Right around J? [23] A. Yeah, right about there. Yes. [24] Q. Okay. Mr. Mooney, I think you [25] indicated at some point in time that you Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 209 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] eventually when you came back downstairs, you [3] went upstairs after Seamus was hit with the [4] bat and his body was laying next to the beer [5] case. Where approximately would that be that [6] his body was laying? [7] A. About three feet from the beer [8] box. [9] Q. Okay. The beer box off to the [10] left here? [11] A. Yes. No, to the right. [12] Q. You mean to the right of the [13] beer box. [14] A. Yes. [15] Q. Okay. Fair enough. If I may, [16] Mr. Mooney, I'm going to ask you. I think you [17] told the ladies and gentlemen of the jury that [18] at some point in time you went downstairs. [19] The family discovered Seamus's body, correct? [20] A. Yes. [21] Q. And I think you described some [22] blue tarps. Fair enough? [23] A. Yes. [24] Q. I'm going to ask you to take a [25] look at Commonwealth Exhibit C-1-23. Taking a Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 210 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] look at that, Mr. Mooney, is that at least a [3] portion of what you saw when you went [4] downstairs? [5] A. Yes. [6] Q. Mr. Mooney, I think you [7] indicated, did you not, that eventually at [8] some point in time you went upstairs and you [9] were drinking as a result of what you observed [10] and you were told to go upstairs, correct? [11] A. This is when? [12] Q. After Seamus was beaten. Were [13] you told to go upstairs? I think you said [14] John McLaughlin told you to go upstairs? [15] A. Yes. [16] Q. Did you go upstairs? [17] A. Yes. [18] Q. And I think you indicated that [19] you brought some beers up and went down on a [20] couple of occasions, correct? [21] A. Yes. [22] Q. I'm going to ask you to take a [23] look at Commonwealth Exhibit C-15, C-1-15. [24] Do you recognize that area, Mr. Mooney? [25] A. Yes. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 211 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. What do you recognize that to [3] be? [4] A. The booze that I drank. [5] Q. What's your drink of choice, [6] sir? [7] A. Miller High Life. [8] Q. There's several cans up there, [9] maybe seven or eight, at least, and there's a [10] bottle of liquor. Fair to say that they're [11] the cans of beer that you referred to earlier [12] that you were drinking? [13] A. Yes. [14] MR. CONROY: Court's [15] indulgence, Your Honor. [16] BY MR. CONROY: [17] Q. Mr. Mooney, I want to ask you. [18] At some point in time in the early portions of [19] this investigation of the case, homicide [20] investigators actually executed a search and [21] seizure warrant at your home, did they not? [22] A. Yes. Yes. [23] Q. Would that be fair to say? [24] A. Yes. [25] Q. And they recovered, I think, an Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 212 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 53 (page 209 - 212) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] item of clothing, did they not? [3] A. Yes. [4] Q. In particular a North Catholic [5] T-shirt. [6] A. Yes. [7] Q. Was that your shirt? [8] A. I believe it was. [9] Q. Okay. [10] MR. McMONAGLE: I'm sorry? [11] MR. CONROY: "I believe it [12] was." And if I may, Your Honor, I'm going to [13] have this marked as the next Commonwealth [14] exhibit. That would be Commonwealth Exhibit [15] C -- [16] COURT CRIER: Eleven. [17] MR. CONROY: May I approach, [18] Your Honor? [19] THE COURT: Sure. [20] BY MR. CONROY: [21] Q. Mr. Mooney, I'm going to ask [22] you to take a look at what appears to be a [23] bloodstained shirt. Do you see that? [24] A. Yes. [25] Q. Okay. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 213 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] A. Yes. [3] Q. First off, whose shirt is this? [4] A. I believe it's mine. [5] Q. Okay. There's some blood on [6] there and some samples of which were taken for [7] testing. Do you see that up top? [8] A. Yes. [9] Q. Do you recall when it was, Mr. [10] Mooney, that you actually bled on this North [11] Catholic T-shirt? [12] A. Yes. [13] Q. Can you tell us when it was [14] that you bled on this, Mr. Mooney? [15] A. I can't tell you the actual [16] date, but a friend of mine was having a [17] funeral services and I came from there and I [18] went back to the bar. I was drinking. I [19] drank pretty heavy. I had my foot tangled up [20] in between my chair and that. I had to go to [21] the bathroom and I got up and I, my foot got [22] tangled with the chair and I fell backwards [23] and hit my head and it bled. So that's what [24] it is. You can see the scar. You can see the [25] scar on the top of my head. And then I went Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 214 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] down to the hospital, Northeast Hospital. [3] Q. Did you seek some treatment? [4] A. I went in there and they [5] wrapped me up with a big cloth. I looked like [6] a Civil War soldier, you know. And I had to [7] use the bathroom and they had the door locked [8] and all that, so I just went outside. I says [9] that's it, I ain't getting, I can't wait [10] around here no longer. [11] Q. Did you leave? [12] A. Yes. Then I went to a bar and [13] then a friend of mine was a fireman. He says [14] there's, you know, the bar I went to, there [15] was a fire station down there. He says, well, [16] a couple friends of mine are medics down [17] there. So I went down. They came in, you [18] know, looked at my head and said, oh, you need [19] stitches. I says I ain't leaving no drunken [20] firemen mess around with my head. [21] Q. Let me ask you a question. As [22] a result of sustaining this injury to your [23] head, do you have a scar? [24] A. Yes. [25] Q. Can you show us? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 215 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] MR. CONROY: Judge, can we show [3] the scar? [4] THE COURT: Okay. [5] MR. CONROY: Indicating where [6] at? Can you point to that? [7] THE WITNESS: Yeah, right here. [8] MR. CONROY: Judge, would the [9] Court indicate that there's a scar about [10] maybe -- [11] THE COURT: An inch and a half. [12] MR. CONROY: An inch and a half [13] long? [14] THE COURT: An inch and a half [15] long in the rear to the witness's head. [16] BY MR. CONROY: [17] Q. Now, just so it's clear, Mr. [18] Mooney, as a result of that fall you bled on [19] the shirt? [20] A. Yes. [21] Q. So if our crime lab unit were [22] to take at least two samples from the blood [23] area, there's a sample A up front, bloodstain [24] A, and a bloodstain B on the back of the [25] shirt, if we were to take samples of those Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 216 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 54 (page 213 - 216) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] bloodstains A and B on this shirt, would we [3] find Seamus O'Neill's blood? [4] A. It shouldn't be. [5] Q. Okay. Whose blood should it [6] be? [7] A. Mine. [8] Q. Who bled on the shirt? [9] A. Me. [10] Q. Whose shirt was it? [11] A. I'm pretty sure it's mine. [12] Q. Okay. By the way, Mr. Mooney, [13] we're going to show some photographs in a [14] moment of your apartment when they searched [15] your apartment. Back then, Mr. Mooney, back [16] then, when Seamus was beat, where were you [17] living? [18] A. 2527 Salmon Street. [19] Q. Okay. Who did you live there [20] with? [21] A. Joe Miller. Joe Miller. [22] Q. And whose house was it? [23] A. Joe Miller's. [24] Q. And how long had you lived with [25] Joe Miller prior to Seamus's death? How long Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 217 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] had you lived in that house? [3] A. About two and a half, three [4] years. [5] Q. Okay. Paid rent to Mr. Miller? [6] A. Yes. [7] Q. Do you recall, is Mr. Miller [8] alive now today? [9] A. No. He's passed away. [10] Q. Do you remember when it was [11] that he passed away, sir? [12] A. No. No. [13] Q. Did he pass away before or [14] after Seamus? [15] A. Before Seamus. [16] Q. About how long before Seamus? [17] A. About a year, I guess. [18] Q. Okay. And after he passed away [19] who did you live with, Mr. Mooney? [20] A. I lived there by myself. [21] Q. Okay. [22] A. For I don't know, maybe three [23] months, four months. [24] Q. Did you ever? Let me ask you a [25] question. I want to show you -- Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 218 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] A. For a year, you know. [3] Q. Let me ask you a question. Did [4] you have any bats in the house? Or let me [5] ask. Let me rephrase that. Were there any [6] bats in the house? [7] A. Yes, there was. [8] Q. And who put them there and why [9] were they there? [10] A. Joe Miller had a bat. The [11] house got burglarized three times. So, you [12] know, he had a bat around in case somebody [13] comes in and he's sleeping on the couch or [14] whatever, or he's up in his bedroom, you know. [15] He'd have something to defend himself. [16] Q. Did you put the bats in that [17] house? [18] A. No. [19] Q. In the photographs, there is an [20] edge of a bat that was like taken out of a [21] closet area. Did you put it in that closet in [22] your room? [23] A. No. [24] Q. And who put it there? [25] A. Joe Miller. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 219 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] Q. Do you remember the date of Joe [3] Miller's funeral? [4] A. No. [5] Q. Do you remember the last time [6] his home was burglarized? [7] A. No, but it was reported. [8] Q. No, but do you remember when [9] the last time his home was burglarized? Do [10] you remember? [11] A. The date? [12] Q. What date, I mean, or anything [13] of any moment happen on that date? Let me [14] rephrase the question. Do you remember a [15] burglary being reported of his home? [16] A. Yes. [17] Q. When was that? [18] A. Well, I don't know what date it [19] was, but. [20] Q. Okay. But there were [21] burglaries? [22] A. Yes. I know the last time [23] there was a burglary is when they laid him [24] out. [25] Q. Okay. That's my question to Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 220 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 55 (page 217 - 220) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] you. [3] A. Yes. [4] Q. Tell me a little bit about [5] that. Somebody broke into the home the day [6] they laid him out? [7] A. Yes. [8] Q. Were you there at that time? [9] A. No. I was on the funeral. [10] MR. CONROY: Court's [11] indulgence, Your Honor. [12] THE COURT: Sure. [13] MR. CONROY: The next exhibit [14] is C-11. [15] COURT CRIER: That was eleven, [16] the shirt. C-12. [17] MR. CONROY: Judge, what I want [18] to do is I just want to show one or two [19] pictures to Mr. Mooney, but it's a series of [20] photographs. Counsel has them. It's the [21] photographs of Salmon Street. I'm going to [22] mark them as C-12. I think there's how many? [23] Thirty-five? [24] OFFICER TRENWITH: Thirty-five. [25] MR. CONROY: What I'll do is Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 221 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] mark them C-12, counsel, and we'll mark them [3] C-12-1 to 35 so you guys can use whatever ones [4] you want, but they'll all be marked [5] collectively. Fair enough? [6] MR. McMONAGLE: Thank you. [7] MR. DiFABIO: Thank you. [8] BY MR. CONROY: [9] Q. Mr. Mooney, I'm just going to [10] ask you to take a look. It's a photograph of [11] Salmon Street when the detectives went and [12] conducted a seach warrant. See if you can [13] take a look at this photograph, and this will [14] be marked as Commonwealth Exhibit C-12-14, [15] counsel. Mr. Mooney I'm going to ask you to [16] take a look at this photograph. See if you [17] recognize it and if you do. Do you see that [18] photograph? [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. Okay. And there are additional [21] photographs, but whose bedroom is that? [22] A. That, if there's a post on the [23] end of the bed, it's mine. [24] Q. Okay. And the shirt there, [25] that's the shirt that was recovered from your Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 222 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] house, correct? [3] A. Yes. [4] Q. That I just showed you, C-11? [5] And in the upper left-hand corner there's a [6] baseball bat that's pictured. [7] A. Yes. [8] Q. Do you see that? [9] A. Yes. [10] Q. And I think you indicated, who [11] put the bats in the house, in the closet in [12] that house? [13] A. Joe Miller. [14] Q. Okay. By the way, Mr. [15] Mooney -- we can raise the lights. [16] MR. CONROY: I'll finish up, [17] Judge. Just give me one second. [18] THE COURT: Take your time. [19] BY MR. CONROY: [20] Q. Mr. Mooney. [21] A. Yes. [22] Q. Did you ever strike Seamus [23] O'Neill with the bat? [24] A. No. [25] Q. Who struck Seamus' O'Neill with Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 223 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] the bat? [3] A. John McLaughlin. [4] MR. CONROY: I have no further [5] questions, Your Honor. [6] THE COURT: Thank you. We'll [7] take five minutes. Give the jury five [8] minutes, please. [9] COURT CRIER: Remain seated as [10] the jury exits the courtroom, please. [11] (Jury excused.) [12] THE COURT: Okay. We'll take [13] five minutes. [14] (A brief recess was taken.) [15] COURT CRIER: Cease all [16] conversations. [17] THE COURT: We're back on the [18] record. Mr. McMonagle. [19] MR. McMONAGLE: Yes, sir. [20] Judge, during the questioning of Mr. Mooney, [21] Mr. Conroy marked as an exhibit or at least [22] referred to it as an exhibit a letter that was [23] written, allegedly written, to the defendant [24] at the prison. The question and answer [25] indicated that the letter was sent to the Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 224 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 56 (page 221 - 224) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] defendant while he was in prison. I submit to [3] the Court that that is a basis for a mistrial [4] and I would move for a mistrial at this time. [5] THE COURT: Yes, sir. [6] MR. CONROY: Judge, my response [7] simply is that I simply was referring to, you [8] know, a document that was written by a witness [9] at the behest and suggestion of a defense [10] witness, and it says CFCF with a photo number [11] on it on, State Road, and none of which. I [12] went through this, Judge, because Mr. Mooney [13] says I didn't know where he lived, I didn't [14] have any of this information. And I simply [15] phrased the question that way. So that's the [16] reason I did that, because it's all penmanship [17] of Mr. Mooney at the behest of a defense [18] witness investigator. [19] But what I would suggest to the [20] Court, that in an abundance of caution I will [21] agree to any cautionary instruction that the [22] Court and Mr. McMonagle see fit to give. [23] THE COURT: Well, I can give a [24] cautionary instruction. All that does is [25] highlight it. I don't know how -- Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 225 [1] Raymond Mooney - direct [2] MR. McMONAGLE: I agree with [3] the Court. [4] THE COURT: And I didn't see [5] how clear it was, but we'll be careful not to [6] do that again. All right. So it's agreed we [7] will not give a cautionary instruction. [8] MR. McMONAGLE: It is agreed. [9] And my motion is denied? [10] THE COURT: Your motion is [11] denied for a mistrial, yes. [12] MR. McMONAGLE: Thank you. [13] THE COURT: All right. Let's [14] bring the jury out. [15] MR. CONROY: Judge, by the way, [16] just for the record and I'll do it in front of [17] the jury, the letter that referenced, I don't [18] think I ever formally marked that. So we'll [19] mark it Commonwealth Exhibit C-13. Is it [20] thirteen? [21] THE COURT: Thirteen, yes. [22] MR. CONROY: What was C-12? [23] COURT CRIER: C-12 was one [24] through thirty-five, the photos. [25] MR. CONROY: Okay, great. And Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 226 [1] [2] that will be C-13, just so the record is [3] clear, Judge, and I will make reference to [4] that in front of the jury. [5] COURT CRIER: Do you want them [6] out, Judge? [7] THE COURT: Yeah. [8] COURT CRIER: Everyone remain [9] seated. [10] (Jury summoned.) [11] THE COURT: All right. The [12] jury is back. Jurors, I just want to give you [13] an instruction not to discuss the case with [14] anyone. If there's media coverage of this, I [15] don't want you to read about it. We're going [16] to let you go. The cross examination is going [17] to be extensive and we're not going to break [18] it up. I want you to hear it in total. [19] So we'll start tomorrow [20] morning. We'll start earlier than we did [21] today. We had some matters that we had to [22] resolve. They have been resolved. So be here [23] at nine o'clock. I know you're prompt. Have [24] a pleasant evening and we'll see you tomorrow [25] morning. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 227 [1] [2] (Jury excused.) [3] THE COURT: Okay. We'll see [4] everybody here tomorrow morning at 9:30. [5] - - - [6] (Trial recessed.) [7] - - - [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] [23] [24] [25] Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 228 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 57 (page 225 - 228) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] [2] C E R T I F I C A T I O N. [3] I HEREBY CERTIFY that the [4] proceedings and evidence are contained fully [5] and accurately in the stenographic notes taken [6] by me upon the foregoing matter on February [7] 21, 2012, and that this is a correct [8] transcript of same. [9] [10] [11] ----------------------- [12] Carl G. Sokolski. Official Court Reporter. [13] [14] [15] The foregoing certification of [16] this transcript does not apply to any [17] reproduction of the same by any means unless [18] under the direct control and/or supervision of [19] the certifying reporter. [20] - - - [21] [22] [23] [24] [25] Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-806 Court Reporting System (Generated 2012/05/24 17:24:21) Page 229 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 1 February 21, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 58 (page 229 - 229) ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ____________________________________ ____________________________________ Lawyer's Notes ___________________________________________________________________ First Judicial District of Pennsylvania 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Original File TOY2.V1, 278 Pages CRS Catalog ID: 12030958 _________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ First Judicial District of Pennsylvania 100 South Broad Street, Second Floor Philadelphia, PA 19110 (215) 683-8000 FAX:(215) 683-8005 [1] [2] IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF PHILADELPHIA [3] FIRST JUDICIAL DISTRICT OF PENNSYLVANIA [4] CRIMINAL TRIAL DIVISION [5] - - - [6] COMMONWEALTH : [7] VS. : [8] JOHN McLAUGHLIN : CP-51-CR-0010456-2008 [9] -AND- SAMUEL TOY : CP-51-CR-0010457-2008 [10] - - - [11] Courtroom 907 Justice Center [12] Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Wednesday, February 22, 2012 [13] - - - [14] BEFORE: THE HONORABLE JEFFREY P. MINEHART [15] AND A JURY [16] - - - [17] CASE IN CHIEF [18] - - - [19] (VOLUME IV) [20] - - - [21] [22] [23] [24] [25] Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 1 [1] [2] APPEARANCES: [3] [4] JUDE CONROY, ESQ. Assistant District Attorney [5] Counsel for the Commonwealth [6] BRIAN J. McMONAGLE, ESQ. Counsel for Defendant McLaughlin [7] VINCENT P. DiFABIO, ESQ. [8] Counsel for Defendant Toy [9] - - - [10] COMMONWEALTH'S EVIDENCE DIRECT CR. REDR. RECR. [11] Raymond T. Mooney 6 195 232 234 [12] Gus Bauman 236 263 277 [13] [14] - - - [15] [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] [23] [24] [25] Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 2 [1] [2] P R O C E E D I N G S. [3] (Jury summoned.) [4] COURT CRIER: All rise. In the [5] name of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, this [6] Court of Common Pleas Homicide Division is now [7] declared open, the Honorable Jeffrey P. [8] Minehart is presiding. Please be seated. [9] Good morning, Your Honor. [10] THE COURT: Good morning. All [11] right. Good morning, jurors. Nice to see [12] you. We've moved a juror up. Unfortunately a [13] juror had a minor medical issue and so we [14] moved juror thirteen up. [15] Very well. Mr. Conroy. [16] MR. CONROY: I think Mr. Mooney [17] will begin cross examination, Your Honor. But [18] just for clarity of the record, Your Honor, I [19] think that it was marked yesterday. The [20] letter that Mr. Mooney testified to that was [21] sent to the defendant was for the record's [22] sake marked as Commonwealth Exhibit C-13. [23] And, Your Honor, at various points during the [24] direct examination there was reference to [25] notes of testimony from a preliminary hearing Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 3 [1] [2] that occurred on August twenty, 2008. For the [3] purposes of the record, it's Commonwealth [4] Exhibit C-14. Counsel has copies of [5] everything and I have two copies to present to [6] the Court, Your Honor. [7] THE COURT: Very well. [8] COURT CRIER: Counsel, have you [9] seen these? [10] MR. McMONAGLE: Yeah. Could I [11] just ask, Judge? It will move things along a [12] lot quicker if all of the statements and [13] preliminary hearing notes are up there for Mr. [14] Mooney. [15] THE COURT: All right. We'll [16] put them up there. If you let Anthony know [17] and you know what numbers they are, he'll put [18] them up there. [19] MR. McMONAGLE: I've got, [20] Judge, C-9A, B, C, D and E, and the [21] preliminary hearing notes were marked what? [22] THE COURT: C-14. [23] MR. CONROY: They're fourteen [24] and the letter is thirteen. Thirteen is the [25] letter. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 4 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 1 (page 1 - 4) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] [2] MR. McMONAGLE: The letter is [3] thirteen. [4] THE COURT: Anthony, if you [5] could put them up there. [6] COURT CRIER: I got C-9 and [7] what else? [8] MR. McMONAGLE: C-9A, B, C, D [9] and E, and then C-13 and C-14. [10] THE COURT: What's A, B and C? [11] MR. McMONAGLE: They're [12] statements. [13] COURT CRIER: From whom? [14] MR. McMONAGLE: Statements [15] taken by Homicide. A is. A and B are. And [16] then C, D and E are three handwritten [17] statements. [18] MR. CONROY: Do you want me to [19] give him a hand, Judge, to try to? [20] THE COURT: Yeah, because [21] Anthony wasn't here yesterday. [22] MR. CONROY: And also if you [23] have thirteen and fourteen. [24] THE COURT: Are you ready? [25] Okay, Jimmy? Stand up here, Mr. Mooney. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 5 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] We're going to swear you in for today's [3] session. Anthony, you can swear him in. [4] COURT CRIER: Sir, in a loud [5] voice for the record, please state your full [6] name and spell it for the Court. [7] THE WITNESS: Raymond Thomas [8] Mooney. R-A-Y-M-O-N-D. T. M-O-O-N-E-Y. [9] RAYMOND T. MOONEY, after having [10] been duly sworn, was examined and testified as [11] follows. . . [12] THE COURT: Once again, Mr. [13] Mooney, just keep your voice up. Pull the [14] microphone to you. Mr. McMonagle, you or Mr. [15] DiFabio may begin. [16] MR. McMONAGLE: Thank you, Your [17] Honor. [18] CROSS EXAMINATION [19] BY MR. McMONAGLE: [20] Q. Mr. Mooney, have you ever lied [21] to anyone in connection with this case? [22] A. Yes. [23] Q. And do you have any idea how [24] many lies you've told in connection with this [25] case? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 6 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] A. One. [3] Q. Just one. [4] A. Yes. [5] Q. That's your sworn testimony [6] today, just one lie. [7] A. Yes. [8] Q. Do you have any idea how many [9] people you have lied to in connection with [10] this case? [11] A. One. [12] Q. Just one. Who's that? [13] A. I don't know his. A detective [14] down the crime center. It was Cummings or [15] Sally. It was Clemens or Sally. I don't know [16] all the detectives. [17] Q. So your sworn testimony is that [18] the only person that you have lied to in [19] connection with this case is a homicide [20] detective. That's your sworn testimony? [21] A. Yes. [22] Q. All right. Why don't we trace [23] it, then. When the victim's family showed up [24] at the bar, -- [25] A. Yes. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 7 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. -- the victim's brother came up [3] to you and asked you if Seamus O'Neill had [4] been at that bar, didn't he? [5] A. I don't remember that, but he [6] might have. [7] Q. Yeah. [8] A. He says was Seamus in there. [9] Q. Yeah. And you said no, didn't [10] you? [11] A. Yes. Well, he ain't a [12] detective or anybody. [13] Q. I didn't say he was. [14] A. No. [15] Q. Let me be clear. When I asked [16] you who you lied to, I don't mean just [17] detectives. I mean people, anybody, family [18] members, investigators for the defense, [19] homicide detectives. I'm talking about how [20] many people have you lied to in connection [21] with this case? A lot, haven't you? [22] A. Uh, yes. [23] Q. Yeah. All right. So let's [24] begin with the first series of lies that you [25] told. You know that the brother of the Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 8 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 2 (page 5 - 8) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] deceased came into the bar and asked you if [3] Seamus had been there, and in fact you denied [4] even knowing Seamus to his brother, didn't [5] you? [6] A. No. [7] Q. In fact, after you denied [8] knowing Seamus, he pressed you a little bit [9] and finally you admitted that you knew him and [10] that he had been to the bar one time with a [11] dog, right? That's what you told him, right? [12] A. Yes. [13] Q. You certainly denied that he [14] was in the basement, right? [15] A. I didn't know he was in the [16] basement. [17] Q. I know. That's what you told [18] us. You told us you didn't know he was in the [19] basement. And then when the police got there, [20] as you told us, you certainly didn't tell the [21] police anything at all about a homicide, did [22] you? [23] A. No. [24] Q. All right. And then you get [25] taken down to Homicide, correct? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 9 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] A. Yes. [3] Q. And when you got taken down to [4] Homicide, how did the detectives treat you? [5] A. How did they treat me? [6] Q. Yeah. How did they treat you? [7] A. Well, Clemens treated me all [8] right. [9] Q. Who? [10] A. Cummings. [11] Q. Cummings treated you okay? [12] A. And they -- [13] Q. Go ahead, finish your answer. [14] A. Pitts didn't treat me too well. [15] Q. Pardon me? [16] A. Pitts. I think his name was [17] Pitts. [18] Q. Didn't treat you too well. [19] A. No. [20] Q. What did he do to you? [21] A. He said I'm going to lock you [22] up and my sister. [23] Q. Your sworn testimony is is that [24] Detective Pitts told you that he was going to [25] lock you up and your seventy-five year old Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 10 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] sister? [3] A. Yeah. [4] Q. Is that your sworn testimony? [5] A. Yes, if I didn't start [6] cooperating. [7] Q. If you didn't start [8] cooperating. In fact, what happened when you [9] got down to Homicide was they told you that [10] you were the lead suspect in this case, didn't [11] they? [12] A. No. [13] Q. In fact, they Mirandized you, [14] didn't they? [15] THE COURT: Do you know what [16] that means? [17] THE WITNESS: Yeah. It's the, [18] without a lawyer. [19] THE COURT: They warn you of [20] your rights. [21] THE WITNESS: Yeah. [22] MR. McMONAGLE: Take a look at [23] what has been marked for identification as [24] C-9A. It should be in front of you. C-9A. [25] Your Honor, may I approach? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 11 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] THE COURT: Sure. [3] BY MR. McMONAGLE: [4] Q. Mr. Mooney, C-9A is a document [5] that you went over yesterday with Mr. Conroy, [6] correct? [7] THE COURT: Do you have it in [8] front of you, sir? [9] THE WITNESS: Yes. [10] THE COURT: Okay. Go ahead. [11] BY MR. McMONAGLE: [12] Q. Do you see at the very front, [13] the first page, it says statement of Ray [14] Mooney? [15] A. Yes. [16] Q. January the fourth of 2008 at [17] 8:30 p.m., right? Right there. [18] A. Yeah. Yes. [19] Q. It concerns the death of Seamus [20] O'Neill. [21] A. Yes. [22] Q. The detective's name who [23] interviewed you wasn't Cummings, was it? [24] A. No. [25] Q. No. Detective Sally. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 12 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 3 (page 9 - 12) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] MR. CONROY: Scally. [3] BY MR. McMONAGLE: [4] Q. Detective Scally who [5] interviewed you along with Detective Santamala [6] who was also there, right? [7] A. Yes. [8] Q. So they're the detectives that [9] are talking to you, correct? [10] A. Yes. [11] Q. Not Cummings, right? [12] A. Yes. [13] Q. Right. You weren't speaking to [14] Detective Cummings on January the fourth of [15] 2008, were you? [16] A. No. [17] Q. No. Now, at the bottom of the [18] page it says we have a duty to explain to you [19] and warn you that you have the following legal [20] rights: You've got the right to remain silent [21] and not to have to say anything. Anything you [22] say can be used against you in court. You got [23] a right to talk to a lawyer of your own choice [24] before we ask you questions and also to have a [25] lawyer here with you when we ask questions, Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 13 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] and if you can't afford to hire a lawyer and [3] want one we'll see that you have a lawyer [4] provided to you free of charge before we ask [5] you any questions. If you're willing to give [6] us a statement, you have a right to stop any [7] time you wish. Correct? [8] A. That's what I'm reading. [9] Q. And in fact -- [10] A. Yes. [11] Q. In fact, not only did you read [12] it now but you read it that day and you signed [13] your name right across those warnings, didn't [14] you? [15] A. Yes. [16] Q. It says Raymond T. Mooney. [17] That's your signature, January fourth, 2008. [18] Right? [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. And you can turn the page. [21] And the second page they go and they ask you [22] every one of those separate questions. You [23] have a right to keep quiet and not say [24] anything at all. Do you understand that [25] nothing you say can be used against you? You Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 14 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] got a right to remain silent. Do you [3] understand you have a right to talk to your [4] lawyer? And they go through and they ask you [5] all those questions, don't they? [6] A. Yes. [7] Q. And you put your initials next [8] to them and you put yes. [9] A. Yes. [10] Q. And it says here, the last one, [11] are you willing to answer questions of your [12] own free will, without force or fear and [13] without any threats or promises having been [14] made to you, correct? Last question, number [15] seven. Are you willing to answer any [16] questions of your own free will, without force [17] or fear and without any threats or promises [18] having been made to you? [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. And you answered yes and you [21] signed your initials next to it, correct? [22] A. Yes. [23] Q. And you signed your name on the [24] bottom of the statement, correct? [25] A. Yes. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 15 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. Now, yesterday when you were [3] talking about the statements that Mr. Bowie [4] took from you, you said that Mr. Bowie wrote [5] out everything you were saying, correct? You [6] didn't write it, he wrote it. Do you remember [7] saying that yesterday? [8] A. Yes. [9] Q. Okay. Just like Mr. Bowie, the [10] police in this case, the detectives in this [11] case, you didn't write this statement out. [12] They typed it out, didn't they? [13] A. Yes. [14] Q. Yeah. In fact, the two pages [15] that I just read, they were preprinted forms. [16] They didn't even have to type those pages. [17] You just had to sign them. Correct? [18] A. Yes. [19] Q. Now we get to the third page, [20] and that's the body of the statement. Now, [21] the homicide detectives have you in a room, [22] correct? [23] A. Yes. When? [24] Q. Pardon me? [25] A. What date? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 16 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 4 (page 13 - 16) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. This date, the date that you're [3] being interviewed on the statement. You're in [4] a homicide room, right? [5] A. I was in one room, one room. I [6] says, they said we're going to, what the hell [7] do they call that? A lie detector test. They [8] says we're doing that. I says go ahead, I [9] didn't do nothing, I don't care. [10] Q. Did they give you a lie [11] detector test? [12] A. No. [13] Q. Well, if they had, you'd have [14] broke it, right? [15] A. Yes. I told a lie on this [16] statement. I didn't want to bother with being [17] involved in this case. [18] Q. Oh. [19] A. You know, John is, you know, my [20] friend too. [21] Q. Is that what you told them, [22] John is my friend and I don't want to get [23] involved in the case? Is that what you told [24] them in the statement? [25] A. No. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 17 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. No. [3] A. They asked me. I said I wasn't [4] there, I went home at 10:30. [5] Q. Okay. Well, let's go through [6] the statement then and we'll see what you did [7] say. You clearly knew that the homicide [8] detectives wanted you to tell the truth, [9] correct? Right? [10] A. Yes. [11] Q. I mean, they wanted you to tell [12] the truth. They looked you in the eye and you [13] looked them in the eye when you answered the [14] questions, correct? [15] A. Yes. [16] Q. Just like you looked the jury [17] in the eye yesterday, right? [18] A. Yes. [19] Q. Okay. Now, let's go to really [20] the second question. "Are you under the [21] influence of any drugs or alcohol?" That's [22] the second question that was asked. What was [23] your answer? [24] A. You're still on the first page, [25] right? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 18 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] THE COURT: Second page. [3] BY MR. McMONAGLE: [4] Q. The page right here, sir. [5] Turn one more page. It says question, right [6] here. "Are you under the influence of any [7] drugs or alcohol?" [8] A. "No." [9] Q. Your answser was no. And that [10] was a lie, right? [11] A. Well, -- [12] Q. Well, what? I mean, how many [13] shots did you have before you went down there? [14] I mean, this is an easy one. You were [15] drinking continuously that day. [16] A. When the cops came in I got a, [17] I got a couple glasses of vodka or it was [18] Irish Mist and I belt them down, and then the [19] one -- [20] Q. How many shots did you think [21] you had while the police were there? [22] A. About two and a half. [23] Q. That's all? [24] A. Yeah. [25] Q. Were you smoking a lot of Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 19 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] cigarettes? [3] A. Yeah. [4] Q. John doesn't smoke cigarettes, [5] does he? [6] A. No. [7] Q. Turn to the next page. And [8] they then begin to ask you questions about [9] what you were doing particularly on Wednesday [10] and Thursday, don't they? And I'll be clear. [11] A. Where is that at? [12] Q. I'm going to take you right to [13] it. Right here. "Did you open the pub on [14] Thursday, January third, 2008?" Do you see [15] that question? [16] A. Yes. [17] Q. Now, when they asked you that, [18] did you open the pub on January the third, [19] 2008, did you say to them no, I didn't open [20] the pub that day, in fact I spent the whole [21] night there and didn't go home Thursday until [22] the afternoon? Did you say that to them? [23] A. Yes. [24] Q. You better take a look. You [25] said, "I went to work to get the money I left Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 20 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 5 (page 17 - 20) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] there. I got there around 11:15 a.m. and had [3] a few drinks and left around 12:30 p.m." [4] That's what you told the detectives, right? [5] Right? [6] A. Yes. [7] Q. You lied, didn't you? [8] A. I, this is Thursday, you're [9] saying. I opened the bar Friday. [10] Q. I know. They want to know what [11] happened on Thursday, and you go on and tell [12] them that you actually went into work on [13] Thursday to get the money you left there and [14] that you got there around 11:15 a.m. and had a [15] few drinks and left around 12:30. That was a [16] lie, right? Right? [17] A. Yes, because -- [18] Q. Because on Thursday you said -- [19] A. Because I stayed all night [20] Wednesday night. [21] Q. Right. You said Thursday is [22] the day you actually went down into the [23] basement and saw the body in the basement, [24] right? [25] A. When? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 21 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. Thursday you saw the body in [3] the basement, right? That's what you said [4] yesterday to the jurors? [5] A. Yes. [6] Q. So when the detectives are [7] asking you about Thursday, you're lying to [8] them about Thursday, right? [9] A. Yes. [10] Q. Yes. Okay. [11] A. Thursday I, I said I took a cab [12] home and I called a cab and I went home, I [13] wasn't there. [14] Q. All right. Well, let's keep [15] going. It says, "Did you lock up when you [16] left on Thursday?" Right? And you said, [17] "Yes." That's the next question. [18] A. Yes. [19] Q. That's a lie, right? [20] A. Yes. [21] Q. Okay. Next one. [22] A. Yeah, I know. I locked up [23] on -- no. That's not it. [24] Q. Be careful. You didn't lock up [25] on Thursday? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 22 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] A. No. [3] Q. Now we're down to, "Was there [4] anyone else in the pub when you got there on [5] Thursday?" What was your answer? [6] A. "No." [7] Q. "No." Another lie? [8] A. Well, apparently, because I [9] stayed over. [10] Q. Of course. [11] A. I didn't open it up. [12] Q. Right. Of course it's a lie. [13] And then it says, "Why did you close the pub?" [14] And you said because your legs were bothering [15] you. That's a lie. [16] A. Yeah. [17] Q. Okay. Then go down to the, [18] you're then asked the next question: "Did you [19] call John or Marusia and tell them you were [20] sick and closing the pub?" Do you see that? [21] A. Yes. [22] Q. You said no, right? Because [23] you weren't sick, right? [24] A. I was hung over. [25] Q. Well, okay. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 23 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] A. I don't know if you want to [3] call that sick. [4] Q. Well, the reason you left the [5] pub was because you'd been there all night and [6] there was a man who you knew in the basement [7] wrapped up in a tarp. That's why you left the [8] pub, right? I mean that's why you left the [9] bar, right? [10] A. Yes. [11] Q. Right. Okay. Now, "How did [12] you get home on Thursday?" Do you see that [13] question? It's the next question. You [14] said -- well, let me ask you a question. How [15] did you get home on Thursday? [16] A. Thursday I, I'm getting mixed [17] up here. [18] Q. Take your time. I don't want [19] to confuse you. [20] A. I'm thinking of Friday and [21] Thursday. [22] Q. Let's talk about Thursday. [23] A. I called a cab. [24] Q. On Thursday? [25] A. Yeah, on Thursday. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 24 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 6 (page 21 - 24) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. You called a cab. [3] A. Yes. [4] Q. What's that say? "How did you [5] get home on Thursday?" "A guy named Dennis [6] drove me home." Was that a lie? [7] A. That's on Friday. [8] Q. I know it was. We'll get to [9] Friday. I want to stay on Thursday. They [10] said here, "How did you get home on Thursday?" [11] And you said, "A guy named Dennis drove me [12] home," right? [13] A. It wasn't Dennis. It was, [14] believe it or not, his name is Don. Dennis or [15] Don Johnson. [16] Q. Well, it's not Dennis or Don [17] Johnson. You actually made up the name [18] Dennis, didn't you? [19] A. No. [20] Q. There is no Dennis, is there? [21] Right, Mr. Mooney? [22] A. No. [23] Q. You're under oath today, Mr. [24] Mooney. [25] A. Yes. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 25 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. There is no Dennis. You made [3] up the name Dennis, didn't you? [4] A. See, I'm getting confused [5] between the Thursday and the Friday. [6] Q. There wasn't a Dennis on Friday [7] either, sir. You made the name Dennis up, [8] didn't you? Didn't you? [9] A. No. [10] Q. Okay. Let's keep going. "Who [11] is Dennis?" [12] "I took a number off him. I [13] don't know anything else about him." [14] Now, I'm going to ask you [15] again. Didn't you make up the name Dennis and [16] didn't you make up the fact that you took a [17] number off the guy? And I remind you, you're [18] under oath, sir. [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. All right. So why did you lie [21] to the jury a second ago when I asked you that [22] question? [23] A. I said I don't know. I'm [24] getting confused between Thursday and Friday. [25] Q. There was no Dennis on Thursday Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 26 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] and there was no Dennis on Friday and you made [3] that name up and you made up the fact that you [4] took a number off a guy that took you home, [5] didn't you? Do you have a lawyer, Mr. [6] Mooney? [7] THE COURT: Well, just let him [8] answer the question, the first question. Can [9] you answer that question, sir? [10] THE WITNESS: I, Thursday a guy [11] named Dennis drove me home. It was Don [12] Johnson. [13] MR. McMONAGLE: Mr. Mooney, -- [14] THE COURT: Are you saying Don [15] Johnson drove you home? [16] THE WITNESS: I believe he did, [17] Your Honor. [18] THE COURT: Go ahead, Mr. [19] McMonagle. [20] BY MR. McMONAGLE: [21] Q. All right. Question: "How did [22] you get to work on Thursday?" [23] Your answer was, "I called [24] United Cab." [25] Lie? It's a lie, right? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 27 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] A. No. I did call United Cab. [3] Q. Let me take you. I don't want [4] to be confusing here, I really don't. [5] Homicide detectives are asking you about [6] Thursday and you know they're asking you about [7] Thursday and they say to you there, because [8] you said you weren't drunk, "How" -- [9] A. Where's that at? [10] Q. "How did you get home on [11] Thursday?" You said, "A guy named Dennis [12] drove me home," right? [13] A. Yeah. It was Don Johnson. [14] Q. I know. And then here, "How [15] did you get to work on Thursday?" Do you see [16] that question? [17] A. I called a cab. [18] Q. You never took a cab to the bar [19] on Thursday. You never left the bar Wednesday [20] night. [21] A. No, no. Yeah, you're right. [22] Q. I know I'm right. You lied and [23] told them you went into work on Thursday [24] because you didn't want them to know that you [25] spent the night at the bar and that you were Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 28 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 7 (page 25 - 28) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] there when Seamus O'Neill was killed and that [3] you knew that there was a body in the [4] basement. Isn't that why you lied? [5] A. Yes. [6] Q. Of course. So why are you [7] lying to this jury? [8] A. I'm not. [9] Q. Tell them the truth. [10] A. I'm not lying to this jury. I [11] did come in and get my receipts and money. I [12] had to pay the gas bill and I had to pay, I [13] don't know, it was Comcast or electric bill. [14] I might even have the receipts at my house. [15] Q. On Thursday? [16] A. I paid it on Wednesday. Bob [17] Evans. I mean, I, I'm getting completely [18] confused here. [19] Q. And I'm not trying to be [20] disrespectful. Are you under the influence of [21] alcohol right now? [22] A. No. Do you want to give me a [23] blood test? [24] Q. No. I'd like you to start [25] telling the truth. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 29 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] THE COURT: Don't argue. Let's [3] not argue. Let's move on. [4] BY MR. McMONAGLE: [5] Q. Let's go down to this question [6] right here. [7] A. Where is this one? [8] Q. Let me help you, sir. [9] THE COURT: What page are we [10] on? [11] MR. McMONAGLE: Judge, I'm now [12] going to go to one of four. [13] THE COURT: Thank you. [14] BY MR. McMONAGLE: [15] Q. Now, before I ask you this next [16] question, if there's anything confusing about [17] this question when I ask it, you stop me. [18] Okay? Are you with me? [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. All right. Now, the question [21] reads, and I'm going to read it slow. And by [22] the way, there was no tricky Dicky stuff going [23] on with these detectives, right? Right? No [24] tricky Dicky stuff. Nobody is messing around [25] with the pages. Nobody's messing around with Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 30 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] the questions. I'm reading it like it exists, [3] right? Like they asked it and you answered [4] it. Am I right? [5] A. Yes. [6] Q. "During the search of the pub, [7] detectives recovered a thirty-two automatic [8] handgun under the bar on top of the beer case. [9] Do you know who the gun belongs to?" [10] A. Yes. [11] Q. That's not a yes. You said, [12] you said, as you looked the detectives in the [13] eye, "I never knew there was a gun there," [14] didn't you? [15] A. Yes. [16] Q. That was a lie, wasn't it? [17] A. Yes. [18] Q. Sure it was. Because you told [19] us yesterday that Richard Parkhurst, who works [20] at the bar, handed you. [21] A. He didn't hand me. [22] Q. What did he do? [23] A. I didn't say that. [24] Q. What did you say? Tell us what [25] you said. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 31 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] A. I said he pointed to it. [3] Q. And? [4] A. I picked it up and put it under [5] the shelf. [6] Q. Pointed to it. You picked it [7] up and you put it under the shelf, right? [8] A. Yeah. Well, he didn't hand it [9] to me. [10] Q. Fair enough. I'll stand [11] corrected. He didn't hand it to you. [12] A. Right. [13] Q. But "I never knew there was a [14] gun there" -- [15] A. Right. [16] Q. -- is a lie, right? [17] A. Right. [18] Q. Yep. [19] A. That's what I said. When you [20] said I lied once, I lied I wasn't there. [21] Q. Why did you lie about the gun? [22] A. What do you mean? [23] Q. Why did you lie about the gun? [24] A. Because I didn't -- why did I? [25] I don't know. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 32 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 8 (page 29 - 32) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. You don't know. All right. [3] Well, you told us yesterday, though, that [4] despite the fact that you have told, and we've [5] gone through a lot of lies, right? [6] A. Apparently you, what you're [7] saying is. [8] Q. Well, don't tell me. It's not [9] about what I say. You said it. The [10] detectives -- [11] A. Let's get back to. Can I ask [12] you? Can you get back to the -- [13] THE COURT: The lawyer asks the [14] questions. [15] THE WITNESS: Okay, fine. Can [16] you get back to the question of that I, I -- I [17] forget what you were asking me. [18] THE COURT: All right. Move [19] on. [20] BY MR. McMONAGLE: [21] Q. Let me ask another question. [22] If you think of it, you can let me know. You [23] told us yesterday that despite the fact that [24] you lied to the detectives, you would never [25] lie under oath. Do you remember you said that Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 33 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] to the jury? [3] A. I wasn't under oath. [4] Q. I didn't say you were. Well, [5] let me ask you this. Did you know it was a [6] crime to lie to detectives about an [7] investigation? Did you know that? [8] A. No. [9] Q. You didn't know that? [10] A. No. [11] Q. I take it you haven't been [12] charged with any crime for lying to detectives [13] and making false statements to police, have [14] you? [15] A. No. [16] Q. You didn't know that it was [17] illegal to lie to homicide detectives. [18] A. No. [19] Q. Okay. But you did know -- [20] A. I also -- [21] Q. Hold on. Let me ask you the [22] question. [23] MR. CONROY: The only thing, [24] Judge, I don't object to the question. Just [25] let him finish the answer. That's all I'm Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 34 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] asking. [3] MR. McMONAGLE: I apologize, [4] Your Honor. I won't walk on his words, your [5] Honor. [6] THE COURT: Go ahead, finish [7] your answer. [8] THE WITNESS: I also said that [9] I called a cab and went home on Wednesday or [10] Tuesday night, I forget, which was the lie, [11] because I didn't want to be bothered with none [12] of this stuff. [13] BY MR. McMONAGLE: [14] Q. Right. You didn't want to be [15] bothered with it. [16] A. Right. And that was a lie. [17] Q. Okay. All right. Now, let me [18] go back to the question I just asked you. [19] You told the jury yesterday, you looked them [20] in the eye and you said, hey, listen, I may [21] have told those lies when Mr. Conroy was [22] asking the questions, but I'd never lie under [23] oath. Do you remember that? [24] A. Yes. [25] Q. You'd never lie because you Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 35 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] swore an oath on the Bible, right? [3] A. Yes. [4] Q. You'd never do that. You went [5] to a preliminary hearing in this case, right? [6] A. Yes. [7] Q. You took an oath. [8] A. Yes. [9] Q. To tell the truth. [10] A. Yes. [11] Q. All right. If I could direct [12] your attention, then. [13] MR. McMONAGLE: Your Honor, may [14] I get the right page? [15] THE COURT: Yeah, because it's [16] miniscript. [17] MR. McMONAGLE: Jude, it's page [18] 108. [19] MR. CONROY: Thanks. [20] THE COURT: It's the lower [21] right-hand corner, sir. [22] BY MR. McMONAGLE: [23] Q. I'm going to direct you right [24] to it, sir. You can put that down for a [25] second. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 36 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 9 (page 33 - 36) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] A. Okay. [3] Q. I'm going to start right in [4] here. Now, you're at the preliminary hearing, [5] correct? [6] THE COURT: Is that correct, [7] sir? Mr. Mooney? [8] THE WITNESS: What's it say [9] here? [10] MR. McMONAGLE: Sir, -- [11] THE WITNESS: What question? [12] Which question are you asking me? [13] BY MR. McMONAGLE: [14] Q. Look at me and then I'll help [15] you through it. [16] A. Okay. [17] Q. You went to the preliminary [18] hearing, correct? [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. We can agree you took an oath [21] to tell the truth. [22] A. Yes. [23] Q. All right. And you were asked [24] questions under oath by both a prosecutor and [25] a defense counsel, correct? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 37 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] A. Yes. [3] Q. Do you remember being asked [4] this question under oath? And we'll start [5] where I directed you. "You don't know whether [6] Seamus had a gun, do you?" And what was your [7] answer? [8] A. "No." [9] Q. "No." Next question, and I'm [10] going to ask it slowly. "The gun that was [11] recovered by the police you had never seen [12] before, had you?" What was your answer? [13] A. "Did I see it? I didn't even [14] know they, they recovered a gun." [15] Q. "Did I see it? I didn't even [16] know they recovered a gun." [17] A. Yes. [18] Q. Right? [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. So you're under oath at the [21] preliminary hearing saying you didn't even [22] know about a gun, right? [23] A. Yes. [24] Q. You knew about the gun because [25] you put it under the bar, didn't you? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 38 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] A. Yes. [3] Q. So you lied under oath at a [4] preliminary hearing, didn't you? [5] A. Yes. And the reason I [6] talked -- [7] Q. Sir, hold on. [8] A. The reason I talked to [9] Mr. Bowie was because that was bothering me, [10] because I did see a gun because Rick pointed [11] to it. [12] Q. The reason -- [13] A. And when was that date, sir? I [14] ain't supposed to ask the questions. I'm [15] sorry. [16] Q. That's okay. I'm going to [17] follow up on that. The reason that you talked [18] to Mr. Bowie was because you realized you [19] committed perjury at the preliminary hearing? [20] That's why you talked to the defense [21] investigator? Is that your sworn testimony? [22] A. I didn't know. I said I didn't [23] see a gun. I don't know which. I don't [24] remember you asking me this. It just bothered [25] my conscience. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 39 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. It wasn't me, sir. I wasn't [3] even there. I wasn't even involved in the [4] case. There was another lawyer there and they [5] asked you about the gun in the bar and you [6] lied like you did in the statement and you [7] said there was no gun in the bar. You lied, [8] right, under oath? Yes? [9] A. Yes. [10] Q. Okay. [11] A. And that bothered me and that's [12] why I talked to Mr. Bowie, because I didn't [13] know I was lying under oath, you know. [14] THE COURT: Sir, wait for the [15] question. [16] BY MR. McMONAGLE: [17] Q. Now, you do know what perjury [18] is, right? [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. And you have not been charged [21] with perjury in connection with this case, [22] have you? [23] A. No. [24] Q. Okay. Now, yesterday [25] Mr. Conroy asked you a question about a Joe Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 40 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 10 (page 37 - 40) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Sheeber. Do you remember that? [3] A. Yes. [4] Q. Joe Sheeber is actually the guy [5] whose name the gun was in. [6] A. Yes. [7] Q. Yes. You know the whole [8] Sheeber family, right? [9] A. Yes. [10] Q. In fact, you grew up in the [11] same neighborhood -- [12] A. Yes. [13] Q. -- as the Sheeber family. And [14] you also mentioned a guy named Joe Miller, [15] right? [16] A. Yes. [17] Q. That's Moo, right? [18] A. Yes. [19] Q. And Sheeber and Miller were [20] friends, right? [21] A. Yes. [22] Q. Close friends, right? [23] A. Yes. [24] Q. In fact, Sheeber gave his guns [25] to Miller, right? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 41 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] A. I don't know that. [3] Q. Miller was your roommate, [4] wasn't he? [5] A. Yes. [6] Q. In fact, you said, you actually [7] said it was Miller's bat on your bed, right? [8] A. Yes. [9] Q. On your bed. Okay. [10] A. Well, the investigators when [11] they had a seach warrant for my house, they [12] put it on the bed. I didn't have it on the [13] bed. I didn't put it on the bed. [14] Q. Well, let's talk about that. I [15] want to talk about that now. After you gave [16] that statement to the police that we just went [17] through, and I don't want you to, I'm not, I [18] don't want to take issue with what you're [19] doing, but right now I'm not asking you any [20] more questions about the preliminary hearing. [21] A. Okay. [22] Q. You can put that down. [23] A. Yeah. [24] Q. And my next question is, we've [25] agreed, you've agreed today that you told lies Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 42 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] to the detectives when you first were brought [3] down there, right? [4] A. Yes. [5] Q. After they Mirandized you, [6] right? And then you went home, didn't you? [7] A. I don't know what period of [8] time they Miran, Miran -- [9] THE COURT: Mirandized? [10] THE WITNESS: -- Mirandized me. [11] They might have. [12] BY MR. McMONAGLE: [13] Q. When did they search your [14] house? [15] A. Huh? [16] Q. Let me ask that question. When [17] did they search your house? [18] A. You would have to ask the [19] people that searched it, because I wasn't [20] there. [21] Q. Well, you weren't home when [22] they searched your house? [23] A. No. [24] Q. Where were you? [25] A. I was at my niece, niece's Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 43 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] house. She called me up. I believe it was [3] Saturday morning. And I went up there to have [4] breakfast and relax. [5] Q. Did you go over to your house [6] after they searched it? [7] A. Yes, to get my clothes, because [8] Mr. Miller, the brother, says I want my key. [9] I says, well, can I get my clothes out of [10] there? [11] Q. All right. So after you gave [12] that statement to homicide detectives, they [13] then, they then hit your house, right? They [14] went and searched it and you didn't even know [15] about it, right? You told us that. You [16] didn't even know they were searching your [17] house, right? [18] A. Yes. [19] Q. Okay. If I could go to [20] C-12-13. [21] THE COURT: Is that a photo? [22] MR. McMONAGLE: Yes, Your [23] Honor. [24] THE COURT: Can we hit the [25] lights, please? Do you want to look up at the Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 44 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 11 (page 41 - 44) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] screen, sir? [3] THE WITNESS: Oh, okay. [4] MR. McMONAGLE: I'm sorry. Let [5] me give you 554318. [6] MR. YOUNG: 554318? Sorry. [7] Here we go. [8] MR. McMONAGLE: That's okay. [9] Take your time. [10] BY MR. McMONAGLE: [11] Q. That's your bed, right? [12] A. I can't make it out right now. [13] Because my, if that's the end of the bed, I [14] had whatever they're called. They're called, [15] you know, a bed, a pole at the end of the bed. [16] Q. Let's try 554321. That's for [17] sure your bed, right? [18] A. I still can't make it out. I [19] don't see the thing. The two beds look alike. [20] Q. Take a look at the North [21] Catholic shirt that's sitting right on the [22] bed. You've seen that before, haven't you? [23] A. Yes. [24] Q. Now, when Mr. Conroy asked you [25] these questions yesterday, you didn't seem too Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 45 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] confused about that stuff. You actually said [3] that that was your bloody shirt, right? [4] A. Yes. I'm still confused about [5] it. [6] Q. You're still confused. [7] A. Yes. [8] Q. All right. Well, let's see if [9] we can clear that up. You will tell us today [10] that the shirt is yours, yes? [11] A. Yes. [12] Q. Pants are yours, yes? [13] A. Yes. [14] Q. But the bat's not yours. [15] A. Yes. [16] Q. Okay. The bat belongs to Joe [17] Miller, according to you. [18] A. Yes. [19] Q. Who wasn't living there at the [20] time. [21] A. Yes. He passed away. [22] Q. He passed away. But the bat's [23] there and the shirt's there and the pants are [24] there. Now, you told us yesterday that you [25] remembered how the blood got on the shirt, Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 46 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] right? [3] A. Yes. [4] Q. And you said it was an incident [5] where you had fallen and hit your head. In [6] fact, you showed the judge the mark on the [7] back of your head. [8] A. Yes, I did. [9] Q. Okay. When did that happen? [10] The day before? [11] A. No. That happened long, that [12] happened before the Seamus incident. [13] Q. Yeah. It happened well over a [14] year before the Seamus incident, didn't it? [15] A. I don't know what date it was, [16] sir. [17] Q. Well, the -- [18] A. But I remember I went down to [19] Northeast Hospital and they wrapped me up like [20] a Revolutionary War hero and I, and I wanted [21] to go to the bathroom and they couldn't and I [22] left and then I. So whatever date that was, I [23] don't know what date it was. [24] Q. Sir, you'll agree with me that [25] that bloody shirt wasn't lying on your bed for Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 47 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] a year, was it? [3] A. That wasn't laying on the bed. [4] It was laying in by the closet. One of these [5] days I would try to get the blood out, you [6] know, when I feel it. But it wasn't laying, [7] you know, on the bed for a year. It was, and [8] actually somebody put that on that bed. [9] Q. Somebody -- [10] A. Somebody put that bat on that [11] bed too. [12] Q. Somebody put the bat on your [13] bed and somebody put the bloody shirt on your [14] bed. [15] A. Yes. [16] Q. That's your sworn testimony. [17] A. Yes. I guess it was the police [18] officers who had the warrant. They were [19] searching the house and put it on my bed. [20] Q. Okay. And the bloody shirt was [21] where before the police officers took it and [22] put it on your bed? [23] A. What was it? I don't [24] understand that question, what you said. [25] Q. Where was the shirt before the Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 48 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 12 (page 45 - 48) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] police officers put it on your bed? [3] A. By the closet. [4] Q. By the closet. And it had been [5] sitting by the closet for a year? Is that [6] your sworn testimony? [7] A. It might have been, yes. [8] Q. When is the first time you told [9] anybody that? [10] A. I didn't know anything about [11] the shirt. [12] Q. Well, when the police brought [13] you back in for questioning, did they say, [14] hey, we found a bat and some bloody clothes in [15] your room, can you explain it to us? [16] A. No. [17] Q. Never. [18] A. They didn't ask me that. [19] Q. They never asked you any [20] questions, did they, about that bloody shirt [21] and the bat, did they? [22] A. When? [23] Q. Ever. [24] A. Yes, they did. [25] Q. When? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 49 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] A. I don't know. About last [3] Friday or last Monday. [4] Q. Last Friday was the first time [5] that anybody brought up the fact that they [6] found a bloody shirt in your bed and a [7] baseball bat on your bed? [8] A. Yes. No. You're saying -- [9] Wayne Bowie showed me pictures of that. [10] Q. Well, I know that, but let's [11] stick to your answer. Your answer was that [12] the police never asked you about it until last [13] Friday, whether it be the police or the [14] District Attorney's Office. That's the first [15] time anybody in law enforcement -- forget [16] Mr. Bowie, we'll get to him -- ever asked you [17] about the bat and the bloody shirt. Is that [18] your sworn testimony? [19] A. Yes. It was probably two [20] weeks. I can't. I don't know exact date, [21] what days, what, you know. [22] Q. And you told them -- [23] A. And -- I'm sorry. [24] Q. I'm sorry? [25] THE COURT: Finish your answer, Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 50 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] sir. Let him finish. [3] THE WITNESS: Who, me? [4] THE COURT: Yeah. Finish your [5] answer. [6] THE WITNESS: I'm a little [7] nervous now. You're getting me confused. [8] BY MR. McMONAGLE: [9] Q. I don't want to get you [10] confused. I want to ask you questions. And [11] if you don't understand my questions -- [12] A. And I don't know if the day was [13] a Friday or. It was Friday or a Monday, I [14] believe. [15] THE COURT: Do you still want [16] the picture up? Can we put the lights on? [17] MR. McMONAGLE: Yes, Judge. We [18] can take that down. [19] THE COURT: We can put the [20] lights on. Go ahead, Mr. McMonagle. [21] BY MR. McMONAGLE: [22] Q. So again, I'm not going to hold [23] you to the day, but sometime within the last [24] couple of weeks is the first time you ever [25] told anybody or anybody in law enforcement, I Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 51 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] should say, asked you about the bloody shirt [3] and the bat. Is that what you're telling us? [4] A. Yes. [5] Q. And then you told them the [6] story you told the jury yesterday, which is -- [7] A. Yes. I hit my head. [8] Q. I hit my head. [9] A. Yes. [10] Q. And I cut my head and I had to [11] go to the hospital, right? [12] A. Yes. [13] Q. John took you to the hospital [14] when you opened your head up, didn't he? [15] John. [16] A. Yes. [17] Q. Yeah. [18] A. Him and Savage, a kid named [19] Savage, or it was Pat Morris. [20] Q. Yeah. And that incident that [21] you told the DA was how you got the blood on [22] that shirt, that incident happened about a [23] year or so before Mr. O'Neill lost his life, [24] right? [25] A. Yes. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 52 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 13 (page 49 - 52) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. That's not how that blood got [3] on that shirt, is it? [4] A. Yes. [5] Q. You're going to stick with [6] that. [7] A. Yes. [8] Q. All right. Let's go to 69-B. [9] THE COURT: Is that coming up [10] on the screen? [11] MR. McMONAGLE: No, no, Judge. [12] The statement 69-B. Sir, I'm going to ask you [13] to now look at 69-B. [14] MR. CONROY: C-9B. [15] MR. McMONAGLE: I'm sorry. [16] What did I say? Six nine? C-9B. Forgive me. [17] MR. CONROY: I thought you [18] meant a photograph. [19] MR. McMONAGLE: Forgive me. [20] C-9B. [21] THE COURT: Do you have C-9B in [22] front of you, sir? [23] THE WITNESS: Yes. [24] THE COURT: Very well. Take a [25] look at it. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 53 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] MR. McMONAGLE: Feel free to [3] use your glasses, sir. [4] THE COURT: Go ahead, Mr. [5] McMonagle. [6] BY MR. McMONAGLE: [7] Q. Now, Mr. Mooney, as I look at [8] C-9B, it like the first statement that you [9] gave to homicide detectives has a cover sheet, [10] right? And here's the other one I'm referring [11] to. They both have a cover sheet, don't they? [12] A. Yes. Apparently they do. [13] Q. Same type of form. [14] A. Yes. [15] Q. It's a preprinted form. [16] A. Yes. [17] Q. And it reads the same but the [18] difference between this one, really, there's a [19] couple things on the new one, the second one, [20] the one that's dated January the seventh of [21] 2008, right there, and one of the things [22] that's different in it is that it reads "in [23] the presence of," because there's two new [24] detectives this time, right? In this [25] statement. And I don't want to be, I'm not Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 54 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] trying to be coy. This statement it's [3] Detective Cummings and Detective Pitts, the [4] one in front of you. Detective Cummings and [5] Detective Pitts. [6] A. Where is that at on here? [7] Q. Right there. Detective [8] Cummings and Detective Pitts. [9] A. Okay. Yes. [10] Q. Right? [11] A. Yes. [12] Q. Because they're the detectives [13] that interviewed you not the first time but [14] the second time, right? [15] A. Yes. [16] Q. Now, you told us earlier, you [17] told me earlier that when I asked you if you [18] were mistreated, you said you were mistreated [19] by Detective Pitts, right? [20] A. Yes. [21] Q. And Detective Pitts had nothing [22] to do with the first statement where you lied, [23] did he? [24] A. No. [25] Q. Right. Detective Pitts is Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 55 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] involved in the second statement where for the [3] first time you blame John McLaughlin for this [4] crime, right? Detective Pitts and Cummings. [5] Right? [6] A. I talked to Cummings. [7] Q. And Pitts, right? He was [8] there. [9] A. Pitts was there. [10] Q. He was there. [11] A. He was the one said put the [12] handcuffs on him and take him back to the [13] Roundhouse. [14] Q. Got you. [15] A. Or the CFCF. [16] Q. And the one that threatened [17] your sister. [18] A. Yes. Pitts did. [19] Q. Pitts did. You're sure about [20] that. You're sure that Detective Pitts, who's [21] been in Homicide a long time, threatened to [22] lock up your seventy-five year old sister. Is [23] that your sworn testimony? [24] A. Yes. [25] Q. Okay. And then they did the Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 56 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 14 (page 53 - 56) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] same thing, obviously, that the first series [3] of detectives did. They asked you to sign [4] your name right across the center of that [5] page, didn't they? Right there. [6] A. Yes. [7] Q. Take a look at the two [8] signatures. And when I say the two [9] signatures, you were asked to sign across the [10] page of C-9A and you were asked to sign right [11] across the warnings of C-9B. Do those [12] signatures look differently, look different to [13] you? Take a look. [14] A. No. [15] Q. No. They don't look different. [16] A. It's Raymond Thomas Mooney and [17] one says Raymond Mooney. Ray Mooney, rather. [18] Q. Besides the T, do you sign [19] your? And I'm not suggesting you didn't sign [20] this. Don't misunderstand my words. But you [21] signed your name a little differently, didn't [22] you? I mean the one has got a different R. [23] It's looped. It's got a big thing on the Y. [24] Do you see what I'm talking about? That [25] actually says Ray Mooney, doesn't it? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 57 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] A. Yes. [3] Q. And this says Raymond T. [4] Mooney, right? [5] A. Yes. [6] Q. And you were a little bigger [7] here and a little different here. But you do [8] sign your name differently at different times, [9] don't you, depending upon maybe how fast [10] you're writing or whatever it might be? [11] A. Yes. [12] Q. Yeah. And in fact we can see [13] from Detective Bowie's statements that your [14] signature on those statements, although [15] different, is certainly yours, right? [16] A. Yes. [17] Q. Okay. Now, with respect to [18] this statement, C-9B, I'd like to go over some [19] of it with you. They gave you your Miranda [20] warnings, correct, just like they did before? [21] A. Yes. [22] Q. And this time it's a little [23] different. This time Detective Pitts is [24] taking the gloves off a little bit, isn't he? [25] They're telling you, hey, listen, you're about Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 58 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] to get charged with a crime if you don't start [3] saying some things about Mr. O'Neill, right? [4] A. Who? Who had the gloves on? [5] Q. That's an expression. The [6] detectives are getting a little more serious [7] with you, right? I mean they're saying, hey, [8] listen, enough is enough, start giving us [9] answers about what that man's body was doing [10] in the basement, right? [11] A. Yes. [12] Q. You did not in this statement [13] ever tell the detectives that you knew the [14] body was in the basement, did you? [15] A. Did they ask me? [16] Q. They asked you what happened. [17] It went on for nine pages about what happened. [18] A. Well, I'm not a novelist, you [19] know. [20] Q. Do you think you did? Do you [21] think you told them, hey, listen, I knew that [22] body was in the basement because I went down [23] in the basement and I saw it was wrapped up in [24] tarp? Do you think you told them that in this [25] statement? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 59 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] A. Did they ask me that? [3] Q. That specifically? Did they [4] ask you specifically did you know the body was [5] in the basement? Is that what you're asking [6] me? [7] A. Yes. [8] Q. No, they didn't ask you that [9] specifically. [10] A. Okay. [11] Q. They asked you to tell them [12] what happened from beginning to end in the [13] statement, though, didn't they? Take a look. [14] A. Yes. [15] Q. Yeah. They wanted answers, [16] right? [17] A. Yes. [18] Q. You told them that you didn't [19] know there was a body in the basement, didn't [20] you? Didn't you? [21] MR. CONROY: Objection. Just [22] at what point? The only, I just want to know [23] at what point, counsel. [24] MR. McMONAGLE: At any point. [25] BY MR. McMONAGLE: Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 60 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 15 (page 57 - 60) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. You told them that you didn't [3] know there was a body in the basement, didn't [4] you? [5] A. I don't know. [6] Q. All right. Well, let's go [7] through the statement a little bit, if we can. [8] Let me start here on page three. [9] MR. McMONAGLE: Your Honor, if [10] I may. [11] THE COURT: Sure. [12] BY MR. McMONAGLE: [13] Q. Excuse me, sir. Here, page [14] three. First question says, "What do you do [15] for a living?" Do you see that? "What do you [16] do for a living?" [17] A. Yes, I see it. [18] Q. All right. And I think you [19] told the jury yesterday, now you're ready to [20] tell the truth to the detectives, correct? [21] A. Yes. [22] Q. All right. You said, "I [23] bartend and manage McWhitey's. I take book [24] there too." Right? [25] A. Yes. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 61 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. All right. Now, let me just [3] digress for one second and I'll let you put [4] the statement right there while I ask these [5] questions, because they don't have to do with [6] the. Leave it to that page, though. Leave it [7] to that page. We'll come back to it in a [8] second. I'm not going to leave the page. But [9] I want to ask you a couple of questions about [10] what you do. You told them that you took book [11] there too, right? [12] A. Yes. [13] Q. And you briefly yesterday, [14] Mr. Conroy touched upon this, but he was [15] asking you questions how it works, how people [16] take book. And let me start with this. How [17] long in your life have you been taking book? [18] A. About ten years or twelve [19] years. Well, about thirteen years, fourteen. [20] Q. Prior to working at McWhitey's [21] you took book other places? [22] A. Yes. [23] Q. Like where? [24] A. Well, what was it called? The [25] bar was before it was McWhitey's, it was Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 62 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] called Time Out. [3] Q. Who you owned it then? [4] A. Dan Drumm. [5] Q. I'm sorry? [6] A. Daniel Drumm. [7] Q. Daniel Drumm. Had Mr. Drumm [8] ever barred Mr. O'Neill from that bar? [9] A. I cannot speak for Dan Drumm. [10] Q. Okay. But you took book back [11] when Drumm owned the bar, and did you also [12] take book before you actually worked at that [13] same establishment? Did you take book [14] anywhere else? [15] A. No. [16] Q. Nowhere else. [17] A. No. [18] Q. Okay. And taking book is a [19] couple different areas. One is you can take [20] numbers? [21] A. Yes. [22] Q. Take horse bets? [23] A. Yes. [24] Q. How about sports? [25] A. No. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 63 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. And you didn't do sports, but [3] you can do sports. You didn't do sports? [4] A. I did not do sports. [5] Q. But you did numbers and you did [6] horse bets, right? [7] A. Yes. [8] Q. And you know when anybody [9] brings that up to you what numbers are and [10] horse bets are. You've been doing it a long [11] time. You know all about it. [12] A. Yes. [13] Q. Now, when somebody comes into [14] your bar and they play a number with you, what [15] do they do? Do they call it in or do they [16] come in and they play the number? How does it [17] work? [18] A. Sometimes they come in. [19] Sometimes they call up. [20] Q. And when they called McWhitey's [21] while you were taking numbers at McWhitey's, [22] did they call a cell phone or did they call a [23] house number? [24] A. They called a house number. [25] Q. Yeah. There was a phone there Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 64 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 16 (page 61 - 64) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] in the bar and you'd pick up the phone, you [3] know, and during the course of the day and [4] they'd say whatever the number, right? [5] A. Yes. [6] Q. And you had a list of [7] customers? [8] A. Yes. [9] Q. Okay. If we could show. [10] Excuse me a moment, Your Honor. This would be [11] DSF0238. [12] THE COURT: All right. Put the [13] lights off, please. [14] MR. McMONAGLE: Mr. Mooney, [15] take a look. Do we have the pointer? [16] MR. CONROY: Here you go. [17] MR. McMONAGLE: Thanks. [18] BY MR. McMONAGLE: [19] Q. Mr. Mooney, I want you to take [20] a look at where I am focusing my pointer. Do [21] you see that area right there? [22] THE COURT: You do you see [23] that, sir? [24] THE WITNESS: Yes. [25] BY MR. McMONAGLE: Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 65 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. And just so the jurors are [3] clear, this is the basement, right? [4] A. Yes. [5] Q. And this is a safe, right? [6] A. Yes. [7] Q. And underneath it I see some [8] red, it looks like, well, I don't want to [9] suggest it. Do you see some red stuff [10] underneath it? Do you see the red? [11] A. Let me put my glasses on. [12] Q. Go ahead. Do you see where [13] I'm? [14] A. Yeah. Yes. [15] Q. Tell the jurors what that is. [16] A. I don't know. [17] Q. Well, the safe, is it yours? [18] A. I don't own the safe. John [19] owns, owned the safe, but I used it. [20] Q. For what? [21] A. Putting money in there and [22] whatever I thought was important. [23] Q. We talked about records that [24] you kept. Did you keep records of your -- [25] A. Yes. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 66 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. Is that what was underneath the [3] safe, the records? [4] A. Well, I don't know. I can't [5] see. That's all I see is red. [6] Q. Yeah. Were the records in a [7] red folder? [8] A. What records are you talking [9] about? [10] Q. Well, you tell me. Did you [11] keep records of the bookmaking? [12] A. I ran a football pool. [13] Q. Uh-huh. [14] A. That ain't taking football [15] bets. I mean, that's not taking football [16] action. It was a football pool. I had fifty [17] or sixty guys a week would call two teams in [18] to me and you'd get, and what it was, you have [19] to call them in on a Friday and you had to go [20] by the Daily News line, you know, for the [21] weekend. You got two points for a win. [22] Q. I don't mean to interrupt you. [23] A. Okay. You're looking at me and [24] then you're looking at him. [25] Q. Well, I'm looking at him Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 67 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] because I'm asking you a question about the [3] records you kept. I'm not asking you about [4] your football pools. Did you keep records of [5] people taking the numbers and people doing the [6] horse racing? Did you keep records? That's [7] what I'm asking you. [8] A. I usually threw it out. [9] Q. You usually threw it out. So [10] you didn't keep any logs or phone numbers or [11] records of any kind. You just threw them out. [12] A. Yes. [13] Q. Okay. The safe, did you put [14] the money that people would come in and put on [15] the number in the safe? [16] A. Not all the time. [17] Q. What would you do with it? [18] A. Keep it in my pocket. [19] Q. In your pocket. Okay. Now, [20] when people come in -- you can take that off. [21] You can go to the lights. When people come [22] into the bar and let's say they call a number [23] in, right? They call the number in. How do [24] they get the money to you? [25] A. Well, I wouldn't take a bet if Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 68 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 17 (page 65 - 68) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] I didn't know them. [3] Q. Right. [4] A. And if they're good pay I would [5] take it, you know. I'd say okay, I got you. [6] Q. You got the bet, right? [7] A. Yes. [8] Q. Now, the way it's supposed to [9] work is after you get a bet you got to call it [10] in to somebody, right? There's a bank, right? [11] I mean -- [12] A. Yes. [13] Q. Yeah. So you get somebody's [14] number. They come in and they say, let's just [15] pick out a number. Let's say 173. And [16] somebody says I want to book 173, I want to [17] play that number. You got to make a phone [18] call, right? Right? [19] A. Yes. Not all the time. Not [20] week by week. I had a steady list. [21] Q. What's that mean? [22] A. So you don't. You're saying [23] did I have to call in. [24] Q. Yeah. [25] A. A steady list is that they're Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 69 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] steady customers and I don't have to call, [3] call that number in. It's a steady. The only [4] time I will call it is if it's, if they don't [5] want to play it no more, says eliminate, [6] eliminate that number. [7] Q. I take it a problem would exist [8] if somebody called in the number, called you [9] and said I want to play 173 and you never [10] called it in and they hit. That would be a [11] problem, wouldn't it? [12] A. I would have to pay them. [13] Q. Yeah. If you didn't call it [14] in, you'd have to go into your pocket and pay [15] them, right? [16] A. No, not my pocket. I would [17] have -- well, technically, you would say it's [18] my pocket. Maybe I would have to borrow it or [19] something. [20] Q. I understand that. I know [21] you'd have to. [22] A. Yeah. Yes. If I knew they bet [23] a number with me, yes. [24] Q. And that happened a couple of [25] times with you, didn't it? Didn't it? A Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 70 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] couple times you didn't call the number in. [3] People hit and you would have -- [4] A. It happened once I can remember [5] and I paid the guy with no problem at all. [6] Q. Okay. Let's get back to the [7] statement. Let me just ask you this. Let's [8] assume somebody put twenty dollars on 173 and [9] it hit straight. How much money would they [10] get back? [11] A. Twenty dollars? [12] Q. Twenty dollars on a number and [13] it hit. [14] A. They would get fourteen [15] thousand. [16] Q. Fourteen thousand dollars. [17] That's a lot of money. So if you didn't put a [18] number in that somebody called in and it hit [19] straight, you'd be out fourteen grand? [20] A. Yes. [21] Q. Yep. All right. Now, let's go [22] to back to the statement, and this is a [23] statement as we -- [24] A. I usually didn't take twenty- [25] dollar numbers. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 71 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. Okay. Let's look at the [3] statement, and this is the statement of [4] Detective Cummings. It's C-9B and this is the [5] second statement where you told us you were [6] telling the police the truth, right? [7] A. Yes. Let me see this. [8] Q. I'm going to. I'm going to [9] actually read it along with you. I don't want [10] there to be any confusion. All right? Now -- [11] A. Well, I am confused. [12] Q. All right. Take a look at the [13] top page of the statement. After it says what [14] do you do for a living and you told them that [15] you took book, the detectives asked you the [16] following question: "Did Seamus ever play a [17] number with you?" Do you see that question? [18] A. Yes. [19] Q. And that question is asked of [20] you, this is the date of the statement, [21] January the seventh of 2008. [22] A. Yes. [23] Q. So on January the seventh, [24] 2008, a couple of days after Mr. O'Neill is [25] killed, homicide detectives are already asking Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 72 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 18 (page 69 - 72) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] you about whether Seamus played a number with [3] you, right? [4] A. Yes. [5] Q. And you deny it. You say no. [6] A. I said no. [7] Q. Then they asked you another [8] question right after it. They didn't ask you [9] any questions in between. "Did you owe Seamus [10] any money for either a number bet or sports [11] bet or horse bet?" Do you see that question? [12] A. Yes. [13] Q. Your answer: "No. He never [14] bet with me." Do you see that answer? [15] A. Yes. [16] Q. That's not true, is it? [17] A. He might have bet a horse bet [18] with me one time. [19] Q. That's your answer? [20] A. Yes. [21] Q. He might have bet a horse bet [22] with you one time? [23] A. Yes. [24] Q. That's the answer you want to [25] give the jurors? Why didn't you tell the Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 73 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] detectives that, then? Why didn't you say to [3] the detective, you know, he might have bet a [4] horse bet with me one time? [5] A. Because like I'm saying, I was [6] probably under anxiety and that. He never bet [7] a number with me and he never bet a football [8] bet with me. [9] Q. All right. [10] A. He might have. He might have [11] bet a horse with me. [12] Q. When would he have done that? [13] A. Excuse me? [14] Q. When would he have done that? [15] When would Mr. O'Neill have made the horse bet [16] with you? [17] A. I don't know. I don't keep a [18] diary myself. [19] Q. Well, you told us he was banned [20] from the bar, didn't you? You told us he [21] brought a dog to the bar one time and wasn't [22] allowed to come back, right? [23] A. He was banned from the bar [24] because that was the Time Out. That wasn't [25] McWhitey's. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 74 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. What? [3] A. There's two different bars. [4] One was the Time Out and one is McWhitey's. [5] It could be the same building but a different [6] name. [7] Q. Yeah. It was Time Out before [8] it was McWhitey's, wasn't it? [9] A. Yes. [10] Q. Who owned it then? [11] A. Daniel Drumm. [12] Q. I asked you before whether [13] Daniel Drumm had banned him from the bar and [14] you said no. [15] A. I did not say that. [16] Q. What did you say? [17] A. I can't recall right now. [18] Could the ticker taker or whatever? [19] Q. Well, why don't you answer it [20] now. Did Dan Drumm ever ban him from the bar? [21] A. I said you would have to ask [22] Dan Drumm. [23] Q. Well, you just said to me. I [24] asked you the question -- [25] A. Well, you're trying to trick Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 75 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] me. [3] Q. No, I'm not. I asked you a [4] question if he was banned from the bar and you [5] said he was banned from Time Out. You brought [6] up Time Out, I didn't. [7] A. Yes. [8] Q. Was he banned from Time Out? [9] A. I don't know. You have to ask [10] Dan Drumm. [11] Q. Well, why did you bring that [12] up? Why did you say he was banned from Time [13] Out? [14] A. You brought it up. [15] Q. I brought up Time Out? [16] COURT CRIER: Order, please. [17] THE COURT: Keep it down. This [18] is a courtroom. Proceed. [19] BY MR. McMONAGLE: [20] Q. You told us yesterday that you [21] had a conversation with him at My Blue Heaven. [22] A. Who? [23] Q. Mr. O'Neill. [24] A. I believe I said I had a [25] conversation with him at Cheers. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 76 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 19 (page 73 - 76) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. I'm sorry. Was it Cheers? [3] What did he say to you at Cheers? [4] A. He says, "I like you, Moon." I [5] didn't flag. Let me. I didn't flag Seamus. [6] Q. I didn't say you did. He said, [7] "I like you, Moon," and what else? [8] A. I know, but you're [9] implicating -- [10] MR. CONROY: Hold on. Judge, [11] all I ask is that he be permitted to finish [12] his answer. I don't object to the question. [13] THE COURT: Understood. Let [14] the witness finish, please. Go ahead, Mr. [15] Mooney. Finish your answer. [16] THE WITNESS: I told Seamus one [17] day when it was McWhitey's, not Time Out, that [18] he has to leave because he had his dog with [19] him. [20] BY MR. McMONAGLE: [21] Q. He has to leave because he had [22] his dog with him. [23] A. And lunch is going to be about [24] ready to get served. [25] Q. Then you saw him after that? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 77 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] A. So he left that and I did see [3] him about, I don't know how long, I mean, you [4] know. And I saw him down Cheers bar. [5] Q. You were just going to Cheers [6] bar. You weren't working there. You just [7] went in for a drink. [8] A. Just went in for a drink. And [9] Seamus happened to have been in the back. I [10] wanted to catch a cigarette. [11] Q. All right. So Seamus is in the [12] back. You wanted a catch a cigarette. And [13] what happened? [14] A. He says, "Moon, I like you." [15] First of all, when I said to Seamus, he said [16] okay. He left, you know. He left. He says, [17] "I'll never come in this bar again." [18] Q. He said what? [19] A. He says, "I'll never come in [20] this bar again." [21] Q. What bar? [22] A. McWhitey's. [23] Q. So you go in the back. [24] A. So, no. [25] Q. Hold on. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 78 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] A. You're getting -- [3] Q. Now I get a chance to ask my [4] question. [5] THE COURT: Let him finish his [6] answer. [7] MR. McMONAGLE: I thought you [8] were finished. Go ahead. [9] THE WITNESS: You're getting [10] confused. [11] THE COURT: Finish your answer, [12] please. [13] COURT CRIER: Order, please. [14] Order. [15] THE COURT: If I have to clear [16] this courtroom, I'll clear this courtroom. [17] But this is a courtroom. We're going to act [18] like civilized citizens. [19] All right. Finish your answer, [20] Mr. Mooney. [21] THE WITNESS: When I said that [22] Seamus has to leave, he got up and he left. [23] He says, said to me, "I'll never be in this [24] bar again." [25] BY MR. McMONAGLE: Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 79 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. I'm talking about now, and I [3] don't want to -- [4] A. And then I saw Seamus down [5] Cheers and he says, "I like you, Moon," he [6] says, "but I'll never go in that bar again." [7] I says, "So be it." [8] Q. "I'll never go in that bar [9] again" is said again by Seamus? [10] A. At Cheers. [11] Q. At Cheers to you. [12] A. Yes. [13] Q. And that's for sure that he [14] said that to you, right? You remember it. [15] A. Yes. [16] Q. All right. [17] A. And I said, "So be it." [18] Q. And this is before or after he [19] made the horse bet with you? [20] A. What was that? [21] Q. Was that conversation, that [22] incident, before or after he made this horse [23] bet with you? [24] A. It was, I really, you're [25] getting me confused about the two bars. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 80 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 20 (page 77 - 80) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] THE COURT: Well, the question, [3] sir, is -- [4] MR. McMONAGLE: I don't know [5] how I'm getting you confused. [6] THE COURT: Mr. Mooney. [7] THE WITNESS: Where did he make [8] the horse bet at? [9] MR. McMONAGLE: You tell me. [10] THE COURT: That's what the [11] question is. When did he make that? When did [12] he make that, if you remember? [13] THE WITNESS: McWhitey's. [14] BY MR. McMONAGLE: [15] Q. McWhitey's. He came in and [16] made the bet? [17] A. Yes. [18] Q. Yeah. Walked in the bar and he [19] bet the horse, right? [20] A. Yes. [21] Q. And what do you do? You watch [22] it up on the screen? [23] A. Yes. I watch it on television, [24] yes. [25] Q. So Mr. O'Neill came in. He put Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 81 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] money on a horse and he watched whether or not [3] that horse won or lost. [4] A. Yes. [5] Q. At McWhitey's bar, right? [6] A. Yes. [7] Q. Okay. Now, in your statement [8] that you have up there, and this is C-9B, I [9] just want to go through a couple other things [10] in it and I'll direct you to the page so [11] there's absolutely no confusion. You had told [12] the detectives that you were preparing on the [13] night that Mr. O'Neill lost his life to take a [14] cab home. Do you remember telling the [15] detectives that? [16] A. Where? Where is this at? [17] Q. I'll read it along. Page four. [18] "I called for a cab to go home. Actually, I [19] was going to Arby's." [20] A. I said that's where I wanted to [21] go. [22] Q. Why don't I read it along and [23] then if you want to correct me. And again, no [24] trickery here. Nobody is putting words in [25] here. Nobody is making it up. These are your Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 82 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] words, right? Right? [3] A. Yes. [4] Q. And so it's clear, the [5] detectives printed this out, right? This [6] isn't you writing it out. [7] A. No. [8] Q. This is the detectives, okay? [9] A. Yes. [10] Q. But it's clear that's what [11] you're saying to the detectives and they're [12] writing along, right? [13] A. Yes. [14] Q. "Later on I called for a cab to [15] go home. Actually, I was going to," is that [16] "Arby's"? [17] A. Yes. [18] Q. -- "first to get cinnamon [19] buns, then go home. The cab came and I was [20] going to cancel because John said he was going [21] to give me a ride home." [22] A. Yes. [23] Q. "So some girl took the cab." [24] Right? [25] A. Yes. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 83 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. That's what it says. [3] A. Yes. [4] Q. And that's what happened. A [5] girl took the cab, right? [6] A. Yes. [7] Q. Okay. And you remained. [8] A. Excuse me? [9] Q. You remained at the bar. [10] A. Yes. [11] Q. All right. Now, did you tell [12] the detectives that on Friday, on Friday, -- I [13] want to make it clear what day I'm talking [14] about -- on Friday, the linen guy came and [15] went down in the basement? [16] A. Yes. [17] Q. With a white bag? [18] A. I don't know if it was white or [19] not. He had, you know, towels. It was [20] probably a plastic bag, maybe. I don't know. [21] Whatever he, how he carried it. Or it could [22] have been a satchel. [23] Q. How did he get in the basement? [24] A. He opened the door and went [25] down. I turned the lights on. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 84 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 21 (page 81 - 84) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. What door? [3] A. The door to the stair steps [4] downstairs. [5] Q. From the bar. [6] A. Yes. [7] Q. Yeah. He had to go down those [8] steps that we've seen time and time again [9] right in the middle of the bar, go down in the [10] bar area, I mean go down in the cellar and put [11] the bag wherever the bag is, right? [12] A. Well, he usually puts it where [13] that one shelf is where you, you know, by [14] there where you saw the safe. [15] Q. And that's your sworn testimony [16] that it was the linen guy and not you on [17] Friday who took the linen bag into the [18] basement. [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. When the linen guy came back [21] upstairs, did he say, hey, there's a body in [22] the basement? [23] A. No. [24] Q. No. If we could go to DCF0239. [25] THE COURT: If you can hit the Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 85 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] lights. Look over there, sir. [3] BY MR. McMONAGLE: [4] Q. That's the linen bag, isn't it? [5] A. Yes. [6] Q. And that's the bag that the [7] linen guy dropped off on Friday shortly before [8] the O'Neill family came and discovered their [9] brother, right? [10] A. I don't know if that's the bag [11] or not. I don't know if they were there prior [12] or what. [13] Q. Come on, Mr. Mooney. You're [14] under oath. [15] A. Yeah, I'm under oath. He took [16] the bag. So there must have been, there could [17] have been some left over from the week before, [18] the month before or the week before. [19] Q. Are you done? Are you done [20] answering the question? [21] A. Yes. [22] Q. I don't want to walk on your [23] words. Are you done answering the question? [24] That's your answer, that you don't know if [25] that's the bag that the linen guy left? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 86 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] That's your answer? Do you want to stick [3] with that, that you don't know that that's the [4] bag? [5] MR. CONROY: Objection, Judge. [6] I don't object to the question but no [7] argumentative, Judge. [8] THE COURT: Actually, yes, that [9] is argumentative. Is that your answer, sir? [10] If you answer it and want to explain it, it's [11] up to you. Go ahead. [12] BY MR. McMONAGLE: [13] Q. Isn't it a fact that that's [14] exactly the bag -- [15] THE COURT: Let him answer, Mr. [16] McMonagle. [17] MR. McMONAGLE: Oh, I'm sorry. [18] What's that? [19] THE COURT: Do you know the [20] question, Mr. Mooney? [21] THE WITNESS: I didn't go down [22] with the linen guy and follow him. [23] BY MR. McMONAGLE: [24] Q. That is the bag, isn't it? [25] A. That could be the bag. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 87 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. All right. If we could turn [3] the lights back on. [4] THE COURT: Turn on the lights. [5] BY MR. McMONAGLE: [6] Q. You also told the homicide [7] detectives, did you not, that a man named [8] Terry Reilly came to the bar? [9] A. Yes. [10] Q. And what did Terry Reilly do [11] when he got there? [12] A. He came in, looked around and [13] then it was so-so. [14] Q. So-so? [15] A. And now he's getting out of [16] there. [17] Q. That's it? [18] A. Yeah. He gave me a number, I [19] believe. [20] Q. Yeah. When Reilly came to the [21] bar, you told the homicide detectives in this [22] statement that he actually played a number [23] with you, right? [24] A. Yes. [25] Q. Was the victim's family there? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 88 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 22 (page 85 - 88) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] A. Yes. [3] Q. So while the victim's family is [4] there, according to you, and there's a body in [5] the basement for sure, you take a number from [6] Terry Reilly. Is that your sworn testimony [7] today? [8] A. Yes. [9] Q. That's not true, is it? [10] A. Yes. [11] Q. You never mentioned to anybody [12] that Mike Lund was in the bar, did you? [13] A. No. [14] Q. No. [15] A. He wasn't in there. I didn't [16] see him. [17] Q. Well, that bar is not that big. [18] I mean, if Michael Lund was sitting at the bar [19] and you were sitting at the bar, you couldn't [20] have missed him, could you? [21] A. No. [22] Q. Right. Is it your sworn [23] testimony that a guy named, that a guy with a [24] jacket that said Mike on it wasn't at your [25] bar? Is that your sworn testimony, on the Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 89 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] night that Seamus O'Neill lost his life? Take [3] your time. [4] A. You say was Michael Lund there? [5] Q. I'm asking you now. You said [6] Michael Lund wasn't there, right? [7] A. Yeah, but when you asked me you [8] said Mike, Mike. It could have been other. [9] But there was nobody there. I didn't see [10] nobody. [11] Q. Is it your sworn testimony that [12] there wasn't a guy there sitting at the bar [13] shortly before Mr. O'Neill loses his life that [14] had a jacket that read Mike on it? [15] A. Yes. [16] Q. Yes what? [17] A. He wasn't there. [18] Q. Who was that? [19] A. You said Michael Lund. [20] Q. Well, forget what I said. You [21] said Lund wasn't there. I know I said Lund [22] was there. You said Lund wasn't there. Who's [23] the guy with Mike on the jacket? It was Mike [24] Lund, wasn't it? Wasn't it? [25] A. I didn't see Michael Lund. I Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 90 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] know Michael Lund. [3] Q. Who did you see, then, with the [4] name Mike on the jacket? [5] A. You're bringing this up. You [6] tell me. [7] Q. A second ago when I asked you [8] the question, didn't you just say that you [9] saw -- [10] A. I didn't see Michael Lund. [11] Q. I'm asking you whether or not [12] you saw a man with a jacket that said Mike on [13] it and you said a moment ago that you did. [14] Maybe you slipped, but you said it. [15] A. I don't remember saying that. [16] Q. So there was no man there -- [17] MR. CONROY: Objection, Judge. [18] Objection. That's not what was said, Judge. [19] He said yes that I didn't see him. That's [20] what the answer was. [21] THE COURT: Well, the answer [22] was that and let's move on. [23] BY MR. McMONAGLE: [24] Q. Let me make it clear, then. So [25] your sworn testimony today is that there was Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 91 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] no man in that bar sitting at the bar having a [3] drink that had the name Mike written on a [4] jacket. Listen to me. I'm not done. Is that [5] your testimony? Yes or no. [6] A. What time? [7] Q. Ever, that whole night. That [8] whole night, was there a man with a name Mike [9] written on his jacket? [10] A. I wasn't bartending. I wasn't [11] paying attention to who came in the bar or [12] not. [13] Q. Mike Lund was at the bar and so [14] was Sean Fenton, wasn't he? [15] A. I, I didn't see them. [16] Q. Okay. Now, you told us [17] yesterday that you didn't hear an argument [18] between Mr. O'Neill and Mr. McLaughlin, [19] correct? [20] A. Yes. [21] Q. Didn't hear what they were [22] saying, correct? [23] A. Yes. [24] Q. Have you ever told anybody that [25] you did? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 92 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 23 (page 89 - 92) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] A. I might have said to Cummings [3] that they were arguing about some Irish stuff. [4] Q. Yeah. Yes. Let's go to the [5] statement. [6] THE COURT: What page? [7] MR. McMONAGLE: This is page [8] eleven, Your Honor. [9] BY MR. McMONAGLE: [10] Q. Let me just get it for you. [11] The question was asked of you by Detective [12] Cummings: "What was the argument over between [13] Seamus and John McLaughlin?" And you said, "I [14] think it was over some Irish stuff." Right? [15] A. Yes. [16] Q. And you told us yesterday that [17] you didn't hear an argument, right? [18] A. Yes. [19] Q. You told us you didn't hear [20] what was being said, right? [21] A. Excuse me? [22] Q. You told us you did not hear [23] what was being said, right? [24] A. Yes. [25] Q. But you told Cummings that it Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 93 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] was over some Irish stuff, right? [3] A. Yes. [4] Q. Is there such a thing as the [5] River Ward Irish Society? [6] A. Yes. [7] Q. What is that? [8] A. It's a club, private club. [9] Q. Are you a member? [10] A. Yes. John McLaughlin owns the [11] building. [12] Q. Owns the building, right? [13] A. Yes. [14] Q. And you were the president of [15] it. [16] A. Yes. [17] Q. Right? [18] A. Yes. [19] Q. And by the way, in that [20] building, in that club, you took numbers and [21] horse bets there too, correct? [22] A. Yes. [23] Q. Now, when did you first meet [24] Mr. O'Neill? [25] A. I don't know the date or year. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 94 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. A long time ago, though, wasn't [3] it? [4] A. Yes. [5] Q. Nineties, right? [6] A. Yes. [7] Q. 1990s? Okay. How did you meet [8] him? [9] A. I don't know. [10] Q. There had to be a meeting. You [11] had to meet somehow. [12] A. Do you know what you do every [13] day or when you meet somebody? [14] Q. Well, think back in your memory [15] bank. [16] A. I'm trying. [17] Q. Did you meet him -- [18] A. I'm trying to and I can't [19] recollect right off right now. You're walking [20] back and forth and -- [21] Q. Were you ever friendly? [22] Friendly. [23] THE COURT: Were you friendly [24] with Mr., is this O'Neill? [25] BY MR. McMONAGLE: Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 95 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. Mr. O'Neill. [3] A. I never had no problems with [4] Mr. O'Neill. [5] Q. But were you ever friendly? Do [6] you know what I mean by that? Friendly. Did [7] you ever go places with him, do things with [8] him, ever have that kind of relationship with [9] him? [10] A. Not that I recall, no. [11] Q. Ever go to any sporting events [12] with him? [13] A. No. [14] Q. Bob Evans, let's talk about him [15] for a second. Mr. Evans worked at the bar? [16] A. Yes. [17] Q. Mr. Evans close with you? [18] A. Yes. [19] Q. Very close, right? [20] A. Yes. [21] Q. In fact, did you get him his [22] job? Did you get him his job at the bar? [23] A. I put a reference in for him. [24] Q. Yeah. And you knew him well, [25] correct? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 96 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 24 (page 93 - 96) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] A. Yes. [3] Q. And you knew obviously that [4] sadly enough, at the time of this incident, he [5] was having a lot of problems with cocaine and [6] pills, right? [7] A. When he got hired? No. [8] Q. When he what? [9] A. You said when he got hired. [10] Could you please sit still and talk to me face [11] to face? Because you're running around and [12] I'm seeing your back there. [13] Q. Well, I got to go back to my [14] notes over there. I'm sorry. I'm doing the [15] best I can with you. [16] THE COURT: Go ahead, Mr. [17] McMonagle. [18] BY MR. McMONAGLE: [19] Q. I'll stand right here. Did you [20] know that at or around the time of Mr. [21] O'Neill's death that he was having serious [22] problems with cocaine and pills, he being [23] Mr. Evans? [24] MR. CONROY: I'm sorry. Are [25] you finished the question? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 97 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] MR. McMONAGLE: Yeah. [3] MR. CONROY: Judge, I object to [4] the question. If we want to refer to the [5] night in question, I don't have any objection [6] to that, Judge. [7] MR. McMONAGLE: That's what I'm [8] saying. [9] MR. CONROY: That's my [10] objection, Judge. [11] THE COURT: What's your [12] objection? [13] MR. CONROY: If counsel wants [14] to ask Mr. Mooney about the night in question [15] about any drug use, I don't have any objection [16] to that, Judge, but whatever drug use may or [17] may not have gone on in this person's life I [18] think is irrelevant. Respectfully, Your [19] Honor, I object. [20] THE COURT: The objection is [21] sustained. [22] BY MR. McMONAGLE: [23] Q. Let's talk about the night of [24] the incident. Was he using cocaine on the [25] night of the incident? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 98 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] A. I didn't see him use any. [3] Q. You didn't see him upstairs in [4] the upstairs bar at any point in time using [5] cocaine right there at the bar? [6] A. I didn't see him. [7] Q. Okay. You certainly, though, [8] weren't using cocaine up there, right? [9] A. Certainly. I wasn't using it. [10] Q. I'm not suggesting you were. [11] A. I don't do no drugs. [12] Q. Okay. [13] A. I have enough problems with my [14] alcohol, drinking alcohol. [15] Q. All right. Let's go to the [16] next series of exhibits. [17] THE COURT: Let's take a five- [18] minute break. [19] MR. McMONAGLE: Do you want do [20] take a break? [21] THE COURT: Yeah. Let's give [22] the jury five minutes. They've been sitting [23] there. Very well. Take five minutes. [24] Everyone remain seated, please. [25] (Jury excused.) Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 99 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] THE COURT: Okay. Take five [3] minutes. [4] (A brief recess was taken.) [5] COURT CRIER: Cease all [6] conversations. [7] (Jury summoned.) [8] THE COURT: Okay. The jury is [9] back. You may proceed, Mr. McMonagle. [10] MR. McMONAGLE: Thank you, Your [11] Honor. Your Honor, if I may approach. [12] THE COURT: Yes. [13] BY MR. McMONAGLE: [14] Q. Mr. Mooney, I want to ask you [15] some questions about three other statements [16] that Mr. Conroy went over with you yesterday, [17] and those are C-9C, D and E. I'll put them in [18] front of you. You may want to use your [19] glasses. I'll stay up here so your attention [20] is drawn. [21] Take a look at what's been [22] marked for identification if you would, sir, [23] as C-9C. Now, C-9C is a statement that you [24] discussed yesterday and C-9C is a statement [25] that was taken from you by investigator Wayne Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 100 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 25 (page 97 - 100) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Bowie, correct? [3] A. Yes. [4] Q. Now, yesterday you used words [5] like tricky Dicky and things like that to [6] discuss what happened between you and [7] Mr. Bowie, correct? [8] A. Yes. [9] Q. All right. Now, would you [10] agree with me that this statement is [11] handwritten? [12] A. Yes. [13] Q. Right? You didn't write it? [14] A. No. [15] Q. Mr. Bowie wrote it, correct? [16] A. Yes. [17] Q. Just like homicide detectives [18] wrote it, right? [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. Okay. And it goes line by [21] line, right? I mean, I'm looking at the very [22] first page of it and there's no skips and [23] there's no gaps and there's nothing that looks [24] like it's out of place, right? [25] A. Yes. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 101 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. Page one. I'll start there. [3] We're going to get to all the pages but I want [4] to go one at a time. All right? [5] A. Yes. [6] Q. And your signature appears [7] right at the bottom of the page, correct? [8] A. Yes. [9] Q. And that's because after the [10] statement was given, Mr. Bowie asked you to go [11] over it and sign it, didn't he? [12] A. Yes. [13] Q. Yeah. And you did. That's [14] your signature that appears below, correct? [15] A. Yes. [16] Q. Let's go through it. It [17] begins, "My name is Raymond Mooney and I'm [18] giving this statement of my own free will and [19] without coercion, threats or intimidation [20] concerning the death of Seamus O'Neill and the [21] events inside McWhitey's Pub and my interview [22] with the police on January four and seven, [23] 2008, and my testimony at the preliminary [24] hearing." Have I read that right? [25] A. Yes. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 102 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. I didn't leave any words out [3] and it goes line by line, correct? [4] A. Yes. [5] Q. Next. "On January second, [6] 2008, I opened the bar at 10:30 a.m. as usual, [7] and during the day I was drinking Irish Mist [8] and beer until seven p.m." Have I read that [9] right? [10] A. Yes. [11] Q. Is that true? [12] A. Well, yeah. I wasn't sitting [13] there drinking and drinking. I was just, you [14] know, had somebody come in say would you like [15] a drink, Moon? I'd say yeah. [16] Q. But the statement as it appears [17] there -- [18] A. Yeah. In the period of time I [19] had some beers and I had some, you know. [20] Q. Okay. But this is what you [21] told Mr. Bowie. [22] A. Yeah. [23] Q. When he was talking to you, [24] right? [25] A. Yes. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 103 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. And he wrote it down, right? [3] A. Yes. [4] Q. Let's keep going. "When I was [5] relieved I sat in my normal spot at the end of [6] the bar next to the beer cooler and continued [7] to drink Irish Mist and beer." Did I read [8] that correctly? [9] A. Yes. [10] Q. Is that what you told him? [11] A. Yes. [12] Q. Because clearly Mr. Bowie [13] wasn't there, right? [14] A. Yes. [15] Q. He's relying on what you're [16] telling him. "Sometime during the night I [17] moved to the other side of the opening of the [18] bar on the Mercer Street side. At about 1:30 [19] a.m. on January the third, 2008, somebody [20] knocked at the front door and was buzzed in [21] and it was Seamus O'Neill." Did I read that [22] right? [23] A. Yes. [24] Q. Is that what you told him? [25] A. Yes. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 104 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 26 (page 101 - 104) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. Okay. "He sat at the end of [3] the bar by the door and ordered a rum and [4] coke. He may have had more. I'm not sure. I [5] wasn't paying attention." Did I read that [6] right? [7] A. Yes. [8] Q. Is that what you told him? [9] A. Yes. [10] Q. "After a while, Seamus came [11] down to my end of the bar and had a [12] conversation with John." Did I read that [13] right? [14] A. Yes. [15] Q. Is that what you told him? [16] A. Yes. [17] Q. "The conversation was pleasant. [18] There was no yelling or anything. I grabbed a [19] bottle of Irish Mist and some beer and me and [20] Goober went upstairs and we sat down and [21] drank. By about 2:30 p.m. I was totally [22] smashed and I left and went home." Is that [23] what you told him? [24] A. Yes, but there was things that [25] happened in between there. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 105 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. Yeah. In fact, in fact, this [3] is what you told him and right beneath the [4] lines, and so it's clear for the jurors and [5] they're going to see it once it's read into [6] evidence, it goes line to line. There's no [7] gaps. There's nothing missing. And you [8] signed the bottom, right? [9] A. Yes. [10] Q. All right. But you didn't get [11] smashed and go home. [12] A. No. [13] Q. Did you? [14] A. No. [15] Q. Let's go on with what else you [16] told Mr. Bowie. Next page. "I returned to [17] the bar on January the fourth, 2008, and [18] opened the bar at 10:30 a.m." Did I read that [19] right? [20] A. Yes. [21] Q. Is that what you told him? [22] A. Yes. [23] Q. But we know that's not true, [24] right? Or is it? [25] A. January fourth? No. That's Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 106 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] not true. [3] Q. Actually, it is true. [4] A. Oh, it is? [5] Q. Yeah. Isn't it? Or is it? [6] A. Well, you got me confused. [7] You're saying is it or ain't it. [8] Q. Let's keep going. "I had a [9] number of double shots of Irish Mist or vodka [10] and some beers. Sometime that morning someone [11] knocked at the door. It was the black guy who [12] delivers the linen. I let him in. I don't [13] recall his name. It's in my phone book but [14] the homicide detectives took my book from my [15] home." Did I read that right? [16] A. Yes. [17] Q. Is that what you told him? [18] A. Yes. [19] Q. Right. Did the homicide [20] detectives take your book from your home? [21] A. Yes. [22] Q. What kind of book was it? [23] A. It was a phone book. [24] Q. Did it have numbers of [25] customers? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 107 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] A. Well, it had numbers of [3] customers. [4] Q. Customers, friends? [5] A. Customers, friends, relatives. [6] Q. Yeah. Relatives, friends, [7] customers? [8] A. Friends, you know. Anybody I [9] know. [10] Q. You got it. Did you get that [11] back? [12] A. No. [13] Q. "He took the clean towels and [14] aprons in the basement and came back up with [15] the dirty ones. I paid him twenty-eight [16] dollars cash and he left." Did I read that [17] right? [18] A. Yes. [19] Q. Is that what you told him? [20] A. Yes. [21] Q. Is that what happened? [22] A. Yes. [23] Q. Are you sure? [24] A. Yes. [25] Q. Okay. "Sometime after the Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 108 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 27 (page 105 - 108) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] linen guy left, I heard more knocking at the [3] door and it was Seamus's relatives asking to [4] come in. I told them I wasn't open yet [5] because I had more cleaning to do. They came [6] in and began looking around the bar and one of [7] them asked if they could go in the basement. [8] About three or four of them went down and when [9] they came up and one of them said, yeah, he's [10] down there." Did I read that right? [11] A. Yes. [12] Q. Is that what you told him? [13] A. Yes. [14] Q. So this isn't Mr. Bowie doing [15] tricky Dicky or anything like that. He's just [16] writing what you tell him. [17] A. Yes. [18] Q. "The police came and I remained [19] at the end of the bar. I had some more double [20] shots and one of Seamus's family members was [21] throwing ashtrays around and threatening me. [22] Between the time that the police officers came [23] and the time that they put me in the police [24] car, I had some more to drink." Did I read [25] that correctly? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 109 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] A. Yes. [3] Q. Is that what you told him? [4] A. Yes. [5] Q. "Then they took me to the [6] homicide office." [7] A. Yes. [8] Q. Let's go to the next page. [9] Now, you'll agree with me that the two pages [10] I've just read -- [11] A. No. [12] Q. Hold on. You'll agree with [13] me -- let me ask my question and then you can [14] say no or yes or whatever you want -- the two [15] pages I just read were line by line. There [16] are no gaps, there's no skips and it's all in [17] handwriting, and your signature appeared at [18] the bottom of that statement, correct? [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. Because you put it there. [21] A. Yes. [22] Q. All right. Let's go to the [23] next page. "I was in the homicide office for [24] about thirteen and a half hours. During my [25] first statement I was totally petrified and Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 110 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] intoxicated and one of the detectives gave me [3] a shot of hard liquor in their office." [4] A. Yes. [5] Q. Did I read that right? [6] A. Yes. [7] Q. Is that what you told him? [8] A. Yes. [9] Q. Really? [10] A. Yes. [11] Q. So while you're at Homicide [12] being interviewed the first time, some [13] detective gave you a shot? [14] A. Yes. I says I'm very nervous, [15] I'm shaky. Yes. [16] Q. Do you know which one it was? [17] A. No, I don't. [18] Q. Well, -- [19] A. I don't know if it was Sally or [20] I don't know which one it was. [21] Q. Okay. But that's what you told [22] Mr. Bowie. [23] A. Yes. [24] Q. Correct? "Sometime after 2:30 [25] a.m. the next morning I was let go. A Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 111 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] uniformed police officer was nice enough to [3] take me home." Did I read that right? [4] A. Yes. [5] Q. And that's what you told him, [6] Mr. Bowie, correct? [7] A. Yes. [8] Q. Because Mr. Bowie would have no [9] way of knowing because he wasn't there, right? [10] A. Yes. [11] Q. Let's keep going. "On January [12] seventh, the homicide detectives picked me up [13] at my nephew's house. They handcuffed me and [14] took me down to Center City." Did I read that [15] right? [16] A. Yes. [17] Q. Is that what happened? [18] A. Yes. [19] Q. They handcuffed you? [20] A. Yes. [21] Q. "This happened about one or [22] 1:30 p.m. I was placed in a locked room and [23] they kept me, and kept me handcuffed. A white [24] detective, Scally, came in with latex gloves [25] on, choked me by the throat and swabbed my Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 112 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 28 (page 109 - 112) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] mouth for DNA." Did I read that right? [3] A. Yes. [4] Q. Is that what happened? [5] A. Yes. [6] Q. Really? Homicide detectives, a [7] homicide detective with white latex gloves on [8] choked you by the throat? [9] A. Yeah. He put two hands, yeah, [10] two hands around my throat. Yes. [11] Q. And then he swabbed your mouth [12] for DNA? [13] A. Yes. [14] Q. And you told Mr. Bowie that. [15] A. Yes. [16] Q. "The detectives had a piece of [17] paper about the size of their interview sheet [18] with writing on it." Did you tell him that? [19] Did I read that right? It's the next line. [20] A. Yes. [21] Q. And that's what you told [22] Mr. Bowie. [23] A. Yes. [24] Q. "They told me that the [25] information on the sheet was gathered from the Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 113 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] other witnesses who were in multiple rooms. [3] They started asking me questions from their [4] sheet." Did I read that right? [5] A. Yes. [6] Q. Is that what you told him? [7] A. Yes. [8] Q. "I was under the influence of [9] alcohol. I had been drinking from January [10] first through the seventh of 2008. I don't [11] remember the content of the statement but I [12] remember the black detective Pitts who [13] threatened to lock up my sister who is [14] seventy-five years of age, seventy-five years [15] old, for harboring a fugitive if I didn't [16] cooperate." Is that what you told Detective, [17] Mr. Bowie? [18] A. Yes. [19] Q. You signed the bottom of that [20] page? [21] A. Yes. [22] Q. I didn't leave anything out. [23] Line by line, right? [24] A. Yes. [25] Q. Okay. Next page. "Sometime Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 114 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] in August of 2008 I attended a preliminary [3] hearing in this matter. All through the [4] previous night and into the morning I was out [5] with my friends drinking. I was drinking many [6] Irish Mists and beers. When I arrived at the [7] hearing I was very tired and intoxicated when [8] I testified." Did you say that? [9] A. Yes. [10] Q. And is that true? [11] A. Well, I was like coerced. He [12] says, "How can you drink all them beers?" And [13] he says, "I'll put intoxicated down." I says, [14] "Yeah, go ahead." [15] Q. Okay. Coerced by Mr. Bowie? [16] A. Yeah. [17] Q. Yeah? [18] A. Yeah. He says, "Well, you were [19] intoxicated." I says, "Go ahead." [20] Q. So right there -- [21] A. "Put that down." [22] Q. So right there, then, and I [23] want to make note of it, where it says "I was [24] very tired and intoxicated when I testified," [25] you didn't say intoxicated. You said I drank Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 115 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] many beers and he said let's put intoxicated. [3] Is that your sworn testimony today? [4] A. Yes. [5] Q. Okay. All right. Keep going [6] down. "Between January third and August 2008 [7] what was your state of mind?" It reads, "I [8] was agitated and nervous. I felt threatened [9] by the police and the O'Neill family." I'm [10] skipping a line. "I resorted to even more [11] drinking than usual." Did I read that [12] correctly? [13] A. Yeah. You skipped a line. [14] Q. I know. [15] A. Why? [16] Q. Because I have to. [17] A. Oh, okay. [18] Q. "So what you're telling me [19] about being intoxicated during the homicide [20] interviews and the preliminary hearing" -- [21] strike that. "Is what you're telling me about [22] being intoxicated during the homicide [23] interviews and the preliminary hearing true?" [24] The answer is, "Yes." Right? [25] A. Yes. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 116 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 29 (page 113 - 116) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. Did I read that right? [3] A. Yes. Yes. [4] Q. Okay. Question: "On the night [5] of January second and the morning of January [6] third, 2008, did you ever see John McLaughlin [7] hit Seamus O'Neill?" The answer is, "No." [8] Correct? Yes? Is that the answer? [9] A. Well, -- [10] Q. Did I read that right? [11] A. He put that down there. [12] Q. He put that down there. Let's [13] read it again. "On the night of January [14] second and the morning of January third, did [15] you ever see John McLaughlin hit Seamus [16] O'Neill?" The answer reads what? [17] A. "No." [18] Q. "No." Is that what you told [19] him? [20] A. If he has "no" there, then I [21] guess that's what I told him then. [22] Q. Then it says, "Did you see John [23] and Seamus arguing in any way?" The answer [24] is, "No." Correct? [25] A. Yes. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 117 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. And then, "Did you see any [3] blood on the floor of the bar?" The answer [4] is, "No." Correct? [5] A. Yes. [6] Q. "Who was upstairs with you?" [7] "Bob Evans. We call him Goob." [8] Correct? [9] A. Yes. [10] Q. And at the bottom of that page [11] whose signature appears? [12] A. Mine. [13] Q. Yours. Okay. Next page, page [14] five of five. "During the January seven, [15] 2008, interview with the homicide detectives, [16] how did you feel about the treatment you were [17] given?" Your answer was, "A nervous wreck [18] and intimidated." Did I read that right? [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. "Did anyone in the Homicide [21] Unit tell you that there was an attorney in [22] the lobby for you?" Your answer: "No. They [23] never told me that. Had they told me, I would [24] have told them to bring him up." [25] A. Yes. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 118 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. Did I read that right? [3] A. Yes. [4] Q. Question: "Have you had any [5] alcohol in the past twenty-four hours?" Your [6] answer was, "no." [7] A. Yeah. [8] Q. "Is everything you said in your [9] interview and at the preliminary hearing [10] true?" [11] "Now that I'm sober, my answer [12] is no." [13] Did I read that right? [14] A. There's a question mark there. [15] Q. Yes, there is. I'll read it [16] again. "Is everything that you said in your [17] interview and at the preliminary hearing [18] true?" Question mark. [19] Your answer: "Now that I'm [20] sober, my answer is no." [21] Right? That's what it says. [22] Did I read that right? [23] A. Yeah. I'm trying to, you know, [24] read his writing. [25] Q. Fair enough. "Do you usually Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 119 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] wear a watch?" [3] Answer: "No." [4] Did I read that right? [5] A. Yes. [6] Q. Is that true? [7] A. Yes. [8] Q. Okay. "Is your estimation of [9] time in this statement from your actual [10] knowledge or from a guess?" [11] Your answer: "It's an [12] approximate guess." [13] Did I read that right? [14] A. Yes. [15] Q. Okay. "Is there anything you [16] want to add to this?" [17] Your answer was, "No." [18] Correct? [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. "Did you see John McLaughlin or [21] anyone else kill Seamus O'Neill?" [22] "No, and I never saw John hit [23] Seamus." [24] Did I read that right? [25] A. Yes. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 120 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 30 (page 117 - 120) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. Right after that, "Mr. Mooney, [3] I want you to read the five-page handwritten [4] statement for content and accuracy and if it [5] is true and correct, I want you to sign each [6] page and the verification." Did I read that [7] right? [8] A. Yes. [9] Q. And you signed each page, [10] didn't you? [11] A. Yes. [12] Q. And it references a [13] verification. In fact, the very next page [14] reads Verification. [15] A. Yeah. [16] Q. It's typed. It's actually a [17] typewritten document. [18] A. Yeah. [19] Q. You read along. "The averments [20] or denial of facts contained in the foregoing [21] five pages are true based upon the signer's [22] personal knowledge or information and belief. [23] If the foregoing contains averments which are [24] inconsistent with fact, signer has been unable [25] after reasonable investigation to ascertain Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 121 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] which of the inconsistent statements of fact [3] are true, but signer had knowledge or [4] information sufficient to form a belief that [5] one of them is true. This verification is [6] made subject to the penalties of 18 [7] Pennsylvania CS 4904 relating to unsworn [8] falsifications." [9] Did I read that correctly? [10] A. Yes, but I don't remember [11] reading, being this was typed, I don't [12] remember this, reading this. [13] Q. Fair enough. But your [14] signature appears right below it? [15] A. Yes. [16] Q. And isn't it a fact that on the [17] page before, -- [18] A. I don't know what the penalties [19] of 18 PA CS 4904 means either. [20] Q. Okay. I'll take your word for [21] that. But on the page before, just as I said [22] to you, Mr. Bowie actually says he wants you [23] to sign each page and the verification and you [24] do that, correct? [25] A. Yes. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 122 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. All right. We're done with [3] that statement and that was C-9C. I now would [4] like to go to C-9D. Just take a second and [5] take a look at it and familiarize yourself [6] with it. All right. Mr. Mooney, this is a [7] statement in reference to C-9D. I'm going to [8] read from it and we're going to do the same [9] thing. You go along. [10] A. Okay. [11] Q. And just so it's clear, this is [12] another statement that was taken by Mr. Bowie [13] of you, correct? [14] A. Yes. [15] Q. And again, handwritten line by [16] line, no gaps. [17] A. No. [18] Q. With signatures appearing at [19] the bottom of the page, correct? [20] A. Yes. [21] Q. Okay. Let's go through it. [22] It begins, "My name is Raymond Mooney and I'm [23] giving this statement of my own free will [24] without coercion or threats concerning the [25] death of Seamus O'Neill inside of McWhitey's Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 123 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Pub on January the third, four, 2008." Did I [3] read that correctly? [4] A. Yes. [5] Q. "Mr. Mooney, have you had any [6] alcohol or drugs in the past twenty-four [7] hours?" And you answered, "No." Did I read [8] that correctly? [9] A. Yes. [10] Q. Question: "Please go on in [11] your own words and tell me about what you [12] recall." [13] "On January the second, 2008, I [14] started my shift, which is normally from [15] eleven a.m. to seven p.m., at about 10:30 [16] a.m." [17] Did I read that correctly? [18] A. 10:30 p.m., not a.m. [19] Q. No. It says a.m. Let me read [20] it again. I don't want to trick you. "On [21] January the second, 2008, I started my shift, [22] which is normally from eleven a.m. to seven [23] p.m., at about 10:30 a.m." Did I read that [24] correctly? [25] A. You're reading it correctly but Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 124 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 31 (page 121 - 124) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] that's not my shift. [3] Q. What's your shift? [4] A. Around eleven to seven p.m. [5] Q. It says that. It says I [6] started my shift, which is normally from [7] eleven to seven, but that you got there about [8] 10:30. [9] A. Yes. [10] Q. And that's what you told him, [11] correct? [12] A. Yes. What date is this? I [13] think he was confused too what date it was. [14] Q. Yeah. I was just about to get [15] to that. [16] A. April the second, yeah. [17] Q. Because there's actually a [18] correction there. [19] A. Yeah. Somebody made a [20] correction there. [21] Q. And you corrected it, right? [22] You guys? [23] A. Yeah. [24] Q. Right? And there's an initial [25] above it where you made the correction, right? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 125 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Do you see that? There's a circle and -- [3] A. Yeah. Is that my hand? That's [4] not my writing. [5] Q. That's him indicating that [6] there was a correction made. [7] A. Okay. [8] Q. Okay. "As I did every morning, [9] I went downstairs and I used a large plastic [10] ice bucket to bring ice from the basement to [11] the ice bin under the bar. I may have brought [12] up a case or two of beer and put it in the [13] beer boxes." Did I read that correctly? [14] A. Yes. [15] Q. "I drank alcohol during my [16] shift and that ended at seven p.m." [17] A. Yes. [18] Q. And that's what Mr. Bowie wrote [19] and that's what you told him, correct? [20] A. Yes. [21] Q. And we're going line by line, [22] right? [23] A. Yes. [24] Q. No tricky Dicky. "I remained [25] at the end of the bar and continued drinking." Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 126 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Right? [3] A. Yes. [4] Q. "At about 1:30 to 1:45 a.m. [5] someone knocked at the front door and Goober [6] buzzed him in." Did I read that correctly? [7] A. Yes. [8] Q. And Goober is Mr. Evans. [9] That's his nickname, correct? [10] A. Yes. [11] Q. "Seamus O'Neill walked in the [12] bar and eventually ended up on the other end [13] of the bar where we were." Did I read that [14] correctly? [15] A. Yes. [16] Q. "Goober left from behind the [17] bar and went to the bathroom for what seemed [18] like a long time." Did I read that correctly? [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. And this is what you told him, [21] correct? [22] A. Yes. [23] Q. All right. "I got up from my [24] seat and walked over to the beer box, opened [25] it and got a can of beer." Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 127 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] A. Yes. [3] Q. Did I read that correctly? [4] A. Yes. [5] Q. "As I closed the beer box door [6] and turned to my right, Seamus jumped up and I [7] saw the black handle of a" -- and it seems [8] like it's cut off there by the notary seal. [9] A. Yes. [10] Q. -- "in his waistband." [11] A. Yes. [12] Q. Correct? [13] A. Yes. Whatever that was, yes. [14] Q. That's what you told Mr. Bowie, [15] correct? [16] A. Yes. [17] Q. And in fact you signed the [18] bottom of it. [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. Right underneath. [21] A. Yes. I think I signed almost [22] all of the stuff. [23] Q. All right. Next question. [24] "Were you scared when you saw the gun?" Your [25] answer was, "Yes." Did I read that correctly? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 128 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 32 (page 125 - 128) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] A. Yes. [3] Q. "Were you scared when Seamus [4] jumped up?" Your answer was, "Yes." [5] A. Yes. [6] Q. Did I read that correctly? [7] A. Yes. [8] Q. "Did you see Seamus reach for [9] his waistband in the area of the gun?" [10] Answer, "Yes." Did I read that correctly? [11] A. Yes. [12] Q. Again, nothing left out, line [13] by line. "Were you afraid that Seamus was [14] going to use the gun?" Answer, "I was scared [15] shitless." Did I read that correctly? [16] A. Yes. [17] Q. "What did you do next?" is the [18] question. And your answer is, "I punched him [19] in the front of his right shoulder." Did I [20] read that correctly? [21] A. Yes. [22] Q. No tricky Dicky, right? That's [23] what you told him, right? "Were you [24] intoxicated" -- [25] THE COURT: Was that a Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 129 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] question? Let him answer it. [3] BY MR. McMONAGLE: [4] Q. Did I read that correctly? [5] A. Yes. [6] Q. Yeah. "Were you intoxicated at [7] this time of day?" Answer, "Yeah. I had [8] quite a few." Did I read that correctly? [9] A. Yes. [10] Q. "Were you," and you could see [11] actually the word, it looks like "when" was [12] written and it's crossed out and then the word [13] "were" is written above it and it's initialed [14] again, right? [15] A. Yes. [16] Q. "Were you intoxicated when you [17] gave a statement to the police on January the [18] fourth, 2008?" Your answer: "Absolutely, [19] plus I was scared." Did I read that [20] correctly? [21] A. Yes. [22] Q. "Were you intoxicated when you [23] gave a statement to the police on January the [24] seventh, 2008?" Your answer was, "Yes." I'm [25] sorry. Your answer was, "I sure was." Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 130 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Correct? [3] A. Yes. I'm having a hard time [4] reading this writing. Go ahead. [5] Q. I understand. "How did the [6] police and you get together on January [7] seventh, 2008?" Your answer: "They came up [8] to my nephew Danny's house after going to my [9] niece Patricia." What's that last word? [10] A. Ann. [11] Q. What is it? [12] A. Patricia Ann. [13] Q. Okay. "Patricia Ann's house." [14] A. Caputo, I guess. [15] Q. "Where my seventy-three year [16] old sister was. They knocked on the door. [17] When we went outside they handcuffed me. I [18] thought I was under arrest when they took me [19] to the homicide office. They cuffed me behind [20] my back" -- again, the notary seal is over [21] this part of it -- "of the ride. I injured my [22] left shoulder." Did I read that right? [23] A. Yes. [24] Q. Did you? [25] A. Yes. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 131 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. Injure your left shoulder? [3] A. I, you know, I had a hard time [4] raising it, so I guess it was injured somehow. [5] But it was injured before. [6] Q. And that's what you told [7] Mr. Bowie and he wrote it down. [8] A. Yes. [9] Q. And again, at the bottom of it, [10] Raymond Mooney's name appears. Your [11] signature, correct? [12] A. Yes. [13] Q. And there's also a notary seal [14] that appears on the first two pages as well [15] with it looks like a Lisa Hart, correct? [16] A. Yes. [17] Q. Do you remember the notary? [18] A. Do I remember the girl? I [19] don't remember the girl. [20] Q. But there was a girl there, a [21] notary, correct? [22] A. Yes. [23] Q. Okay. "After Detective Scally [24] choked me and swabbed my mouth for DNA, a [25] white male detective took me to another floor Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 132 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 33 (page 129 - 132) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] of the building and took a frontal and side [3] profile photo, and then someone who was a [4] fingerprint technician got ink on my fingers [5] and took my fingerprints on a machine." Did I [6] read that right? [7] A. You're reading it right, but [8] this -- [9] THE COURT: But what? [10] BY MR. McMONAGLE: [11] Q. But what? [12] A. They didn't fingerprint me. [13] What date is this? See, you're getting me [14] confused. This is on a Friday. I was down [15] the police headquarters twice. When was this? [16] Q. When was what? This statement [17] that I'm reading from? [18] A. Yeah. [19] Q. Or when you got fingerprinted? [20] A. When I got fingerprinted was [21] the first time I went down to Homicide. [22] Q. Okay. [23] A. Okay. That was late at night [24] I got down, you know. [25] Q. They printed you the first Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 133 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] night you went down there? [3] A. The first night, yes. [4] Q. When they took the DNA did they [5] print you that night too? [6] A. That was the night. It was the [7] DNA. They took me. Let me explain this. [8] They took me. When I came in, there was [9] Scally there with, he put latex gloves on and [10] he swabbed me. Then I went and I saw Pitts. [11] Then Pitts and Cummings went in another room. [12] They took the cuffs off me and I sat down with [13] Cummings. [14] Q. Okay. [15] A. But later on that night they [16] took me up. No. Wait a minute. Now I'm [17] getting confused. No. This is on the Monday, [18] right? [19] Q. Well, I'm just going to, I'm [20] reading what was written here. [21] A. Well, that's what I'm saying. [22] This is -- [23] Q. Okay. Well, let me read it [24] again. [25] A. This is not in order of where Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 134 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] it should be. It's not in the order where it [3] should be. [4] Q. Fair enough. Let's clear it [5] up. I'm going to read it again. "After [6] Detective Scally choked me and swabbed my [7] mouth for DNA, a white male detective took me [8] to another floor of the building and then took [9] a frontal and side profile photo, and then [10] someone who was a fingerprint technician put [11] ink on my fingers and took my fingerprints on [12] a machine." Now, that's what it says here, [13] right? [14] A. Yes. [15] Q. And is what you're saying to [16] the jurors that happened the first time you [17] were interviewed by homicide detectives or the [18] second time? Do you know what I mean? [19] A. With Detective Scally, that was [20] the second time. [21] Q. Okay. [22] A. The first time, the first time, [23] I got fingerprinted and they took a picture of [24] me was the first time I was down there. So [25] that, somehow that's a mistake there. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 135 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. Okay. It says here, "I was [3] shaking and petrified throughout this [4] experience. After this, they took me back to [5] the homicide office and placed me back in a [6] room. I recall the fingerprints and photos [7] were taken of my, at my, on my first trip to [8] Homicide." Did I read that correctly? [9] A. What's that say? [10] Q. Read along with me, because I [11] want to make sure we agree that what's written [12] here is what's written here. And I'll start [13] right again at the beginning of that sentence. [14] "After this, they took me back to the homicide [15] office and placed me back in a room. I recall [16] the fingerprints and photos were taken on my [17] first trip to Homicide." Did I read that [18] correctly? [19] A. Right, because I corrected him. [20] I says you're screwing up there. [21] Q. Yep. "The swabbing for DNA was [22] on the second trip." Correct? [23] A. Yes. [24] Q. So there you are clarifying for [25] Detective Bowie what he wrote, correct? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 136 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 34 (page 133 - 136) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] A. Yes. [3] Q. All right. "Detective Cummings [4] sat down in front of me and Detective Pitts [5] closed the door and Detective Pitts stood to [6] the side." Did I read that correctly? [7] A. Yes. [8] Q. Did you know Detective Cummings [9] before this? [10] A. No. [11] Q. "Detective Cummings was asking [12] me questions but I wasn't answering his, [13] wasn't answering him and Detective Pitts said" [14] -- and this is what's written here, I'm not [15] trying to offend anybody -- "'Fuck him, put [16] the cuffs back on him, we'll send him up to [17] CFCF and then go lock up his sister." Did I [18] read that right? [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. Is that what he said to you? [21] A. Yes. [22] Q. Are you sure? [23] A. Yes. [24] Q. "Detective Cummings continued [25] to ask me questions from a sheet of paper. I Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 137 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] was drunk, angry and scared and I answered [3] anything they asked any way they wanted and I [4] signed it to protect my sister from being [5] arrested." Did I read that correctly? [6] A. Yes. [7] Q. "Were you intoxicated at the [8] preliminary hearing?" is the next question. [9] Answer, "Yes." I'm sorry. "Yeah. I was out [10] drinking all night. The day of the hearing [11] Mr. Gilson gave me my statement and told me to [12] read it and I testified." I can't make out [13] what's written here, but then the next line [14] says "the police wanted me to say." Did I [15] read that correctly? [16] A. Yes. [17] Q. All right. Then it says, "Is [18] there anything else you want to add to this?" [19] And again, the answer says, "Not right now." [20] Right down there. [21] A. Yeah. [22] Q. And then you signed the bottom [23] of it, correct? [24] A. Yes. [25] Q. All right. Now, we'll go to Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 138 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] the last page of this statement. "When you [3] were twenty-nine to thirty years old, did you [4] ever suffer from an anxiety attack?" Your [5] answer was, "Yes." [6] A. Yes. [7] Q. Did you tell Detective Bowie [8] that? [9] A. Yes. [10] Q. "Were you treated by a doctor?" [11] Your answer was, "Yes." Correct? [12] A. Yes. [13] Q. "What did he recommend when you [14] became tense or anxious?" I don't know what [15] word that is, but there's a word. Tense or [16] whatever. Your answer is, "Drink alcohol and [17] calm down." Did I read that correctly? [18] A. Yes. [19] Q. "Is everything you've told me, [20] is everything you've told me tonight the truth [21] to the best of your recollection?" Your [22] answer was, "Yes," correct? [23] A. Yes. [24] Q. "Mr. Mooney, I'm going to take [25] you to a notary public to notarize this Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 139 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] statement if the contents are true and [3] correct. Mr. Mooney, I have a few more [4] questions. The gun that Rick found," and it [5] looks like "got at the bar, do you recognize [6] it?" Answer, "It looks similar to the handle [7] that Seamus had." Did I read that correctly? [8] A. Yes. [9] Q. "What did you do with the gun?" [10] Your answer was, "I put it behind the bar." [11] Did I read that correctly? [12] A. Yes. [13] Q. "Did you or anyone else keep [14] guns in the bar?" Your answer was, "No." [15] Correct? [16] A. Yes. [17] Q. It's dated August the seventh, [18] 2010. Your signature appears and there's a [19] notary seal on this as well, correct? [20] A. Yes. [21] Q. We're now going to go to the [22] last one, E. You got that? That was D. [23] THE COURT: Do you have that in [24] front of you, sir? [25] MR. McMONAGLE: There you go. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 140 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 35 (page 137 - 140) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] You can hold on to that one. [3] BY MR. McMONAGLE: [4] Q. This is now a statement that's [5] been marked for identification as C-9E. It [6] begins, Mr. Mooney, "My name is Raymond Mooney [7] and I'm giving this statement of my own free [8] will without threats or coercion concerning [9] the death of Seamus O'Neill on January third, [10] 2008, and January fourth, 2008." Correct? [11] A. Yes. [12] Q. And again, the statement, [13] handwritten statement, line by line, taken by [14] Mr. Bowie of you, correct? [15] A. Yes. [16] Q. Signature appears at the bottom [17] of this statement, correct? [18] A. Yes. [19] Q. And on the second page of this [20] statement, if you just look briefly, not only [21] does your signature appear but a notarization [22] appears and the date of October twenty-second, [23] 2010, correct? [24] A. Yes. [25] Q. All right. Let me just go. I Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 141 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] want to go through the statement real quick as [3] we can. "Mr. Mooney, have you had any alcohol [4] or drugs in the past twenty-four others?" [5] Your answer was, "No," correct? [6] A. Yes. [7] Q. "Please go on in your own words [8] and tell me what you recall." Your answer: [9] "I need to get this off my chest because it's [10] been bothering me since it happened." Did I [11] read that right? [12] A. Yes. [13] Q. Did I leave anything out? [14] A. No. [15] Q. All right. "I was in [16] McWhitey's bar when Seamus O'Neill came in. [17] He came to the end of the bar where I was [18] sitting and drinking." Did I read that [19] correctly? [20] A. Yes. [21] Q. "When Seamus became loud and [22] threatened to kill me, Goober left the bar and [23] went to the bathroom." Did I read that [24] correctly? [25] A. Yes. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 142 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. "When Seamus reached for a gun [3] in his waistband, I was standing by the [4] opening at the end of the bar and remember [5] striking him but I must have blanked out." [6] Did I read that correctly? [7] A. Yes. [8] Q. "I don't remember what happened [9] next." Did I read that correctly? [10] A. Yes. But that -- [11] Q. Go ahead. [12] A. That's not my, you know, [13] statement. [14] Q. That's not your statement? [15] A. No. [16] Q. Oh. Let's keep going. "Do you [17] recall who else was in the bar at this time?" [18] Answer, "Yeah. I think maybe John, me and [19] Goober." Is that what it says? [20] A. Hold on now. Yes. [21] Q. And so it's clear, it's line by [22] line. It's handwritten. Nothing left out by [23] me, right, as I'm reading it to you? [24] A. Yes. [25] Q. Okay. "Who's Goober?" Answer, Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 143 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] "My friend Bob Evans." Right? [3] A. Yes. [4] Q. That's what you told Mr. Bowie, [5] right? [6] A. Yes, yes. [7] Q. "Do you recall Mike Lund and/or [8] Sean Fenton in the bar at this time?" Your [9] answer: "They could have been. I was pretty [10] piss-eyed. It was three years ago and I just [11] don't remember." Did I read that correctly? [12] A. Yes. [13] Q. And your signature appears, so [14] it's clear, right at the bottom of this page, [15] doesn't it? [16] A. Yes. [17] Q. All right. "Did you happen to [18] see Sammy Toy in the bar during the night of [19] January second, 2008, or afterwards? Answer: [20] "I don't remember seeing him." Is that what [21] it says? [22] A. Yes. [23] Q. "Why was Seamus O'Neill so [24] angry and threatening you with a gun?" [25] Answer, "He placed a bet with me and hit. I Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 144 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 36 (page 141 - 144) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] gave him some money earlier in the week and he [3] was supposed to come back on Friday for the [4] rest but he came in drunk and early. I had [5] every intention of paying him at the end of [6] the week like we agreed." Did I read that [7] correctly? [8] A. You read it but it's not true. [9] Q. Okay. So what is written here [10] is what was said, but you're saying that's not [11] true. [12] A. Right. [13] Q. Okay. "Was Seamus O'Neill a [14] regular at the bar?" Answer, "No. He was [15] flagged by the previous owner." Did I read [16] that correctly? [17] A. Yes. [18] Q. "Were you scared when Seamus [19] pulled the gun?" Answer, "Scared shitless." [20] Did I read that correctly? [21] A. Yes. [22] Q. "Did you think Seamus was going [23] to kill you?" Answer, "I sure did." Did I [24] read that correctly? [25] A. Yes. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 145 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. "Did you and Bob Evans talk [3] about this case together?" Answer, "Yeah, we [4] did. I told him what I told the police on the [5] following Monday and he told them the same." [6] Did I read that correctly? [7] A. Yes. [8] Q. Mr. Mooney, and again, line by [9] line, right? Handwritten. Yes? [10] A. Yes. [11] Q. Very next thing written. "Mr. [12] Mooney, I want you to read this two-page [13] handwritten statement for content and accuracy [14] and if it's true and correct I want you to [15] sign this in the presence of a notary public." [16] Whose signature appears down here? [17] A. Mine. [18] Q. And is there a signature of a [19] notary public? [20] A. Yes. [21] MR. McMONAGLE: Your Honor, I [22] just have a little bit of stuff to go over [23] with the video. Did you want me to keep [24] going? [25] THE COURT: Well, I think we Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 146 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] should take a break with the jury now. [3] MR. McMONAGLE: Okay. [4] THE COURT: We'll come back and [5] finish your cross and Mr. DiFabio and then [6] we'll get into any redirect. But we're going [7] to give the jury a break, give them some [8] lunch. If you go over the Terminal today, the [9] Amish are there, folks, and I'd keep away from [10] the creamed chicken over mashed potatoes with [11] corn and waffles because you want to stay [12] awake when you come back. Have a good lunch. [13] COURT CRIER: Everyone remain [14] seated until the jury exits the courtroom. [15] Jurors? [16] (Jury excused.) [17] THE COURT: All right, sir. [18] Mr. Mooney, you're still under oath. Don't [19] discuss your testimony. [20] THE WITNESS: Okay. [21] THE COURT: All right. We'll [22] come back at two o'clock. [23] COURT CRIER: Hold on. I got [24] to see if they're working next door. [25] THE COURT: All right. Hold Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 147 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] on. [3] THE WITNESS: Can I leave now? [4] THE COURT: Just wait a minute [5] for the jury, please. [6] THE WITNESS: Okay. [7] (A luncheon recess was taken.) [8] COURT CRIER: Cease all [9] conversations. [10] (Jury summoned.) [11] COURT CRIER: All rise. In the [12] name of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, this [13] Court of Common Pleas Homicide Division is now [14] reconvened, the Honorable Judge Jeffrey P. [15] Minehart is presiding. Please be seated and [16] cease all conversations. Good afternoon, Your [17] Honor. [18] THE COURT: Good afternoon. [19] All right. Good afternoon, everyone. Very [20] well. We'll get the witness and continue [21] cross examination. Jurors, you look well fed. [22] I hope you had a good lunch. [23] COURT CRIER: He'll be a [24] minute. [25] THE COURT: All right. Can you Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 148 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 37 (page 145 - 148) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] put the witness in? [3] COURT CRIER: Do you want me to [4] swear him in, Judge? [5] THE COURT: No. You're still [6] under oath, Mr. Mooney. We'll continue the [7] cross examination. [8] COURT CRIER: Have a seat, sir. [9] THE COURT: Yes, Mr. McMonagle. [10] MR. McMONAGLE: Thank you, Your [11] Honor. [12] BY MR. McMONAGLE: [13] Q. Mr. Mooney, in reference to [14] Cheers Bar, are you also familiar with Nick's [15] Bar and J Street Bar? [16] A. Yes. [17] Q. And do you frequent those bars [18] as well? [19] A. I haven't been. [20] Q. Back then, back in '08 when [21] this happened? [22] A. Yes. [23] Q. Okay. [24] A. Nick's and Cheers a lot. [25] Q. Okay. I asked you in the Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 149 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] beginning of my questioning whether or not you [3] had lied to anybody about this case. Let me [4] ask you this. Did you ever ask anybody to lie [5] for you in this case? [6] A. No. [7] Q. Are you sure? [8] A. Yes. [9] Q. Who's Robert Orr? [10] A. Oh. That's the taxicab driver. [11] Q. Right. And after you went down [12] to Homicide and gave them the first [13] statement, -- let me finish the question and [14] you can answer it -- and you lied to homicide [15] detectives, you left Homicide and you called [16] Mr. Orr, didn't you? [17] A. Yes. [18] Q. And you told Mr. Orr that if [19] homicide detectives contacted him, he was to [20] tell them that he actually drove you to work [21] on Thursday, didn't you? [22] A. Was it Thursday? I did tell [23] him, and that was the lie I was trying to say [24] to you that I said to the -- [25] Q. Right. You told him to lie for Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 150 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] you if the homicide detectives contacted him, [3] right? [4] A. Yes. That was the lie I was [5] saying. I lied to the detectives down the [6] first time I went down Homicide. That was the [7] lie, because I didn't want no parts of this [8] case. [9] Q. Right. Now, if we could go -- [10] A. I didn't want nothing, you [11] know, to do with it. I just wanted to try to [12] be, you know. [13] Q. Out of it. [14] A. Out of it. [15] Q. Right. Now, if we could go to [16] D0234. While that's being set up, Mr. Mooney, [17] let me ask you this question. You knew there [18] was a bat behind the bar, didn't you? [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. Aluminum bat, right? [21] A. Yes. [22] Q. Okay. If you can take a look [23] at what's up on the screen. See the Dodge [24] City machine right there? [25] A. Yes. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 151 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. Is that the bat? [3] A. It could have been more than [4] one aluminum bat. I don't. I can't just see [5] from that picture what it is. [6] Q. Let me ask you this. [7] A. It looks similar. [8] Q. Let me ask you a question. Did [9] you guys keep that bat by the machine right [10] there? [11] A. Not all the time. [12] Q. Sometimes? [13] A. Yes. I think there was a bat [14] put by the machine. [15] Q. All right. Now, if we could [16] just go to for the last photo I'm going to [17] show him, D0022. Mr. Mooney, while this is [18] being set up, this is a picture of the bar, [19] correct? [20] A. Yes. [21] Q. And I think Mr. Conroy asked [22] you the question yesterday where you usually [23] sat in connection with this bar, correct? [24] A. Yes. [25] Q. Where your perch was, where you Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 152 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 38 (page 149 - 152) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] usually kept yourself in the many days that [3] you were at that bar. Tell me in the picture [4] where it is that you used to usually sit. [5] A. That's a Q, I believe. [6] Q. Right here? [7] A. Q or an O. Yes, a Q. [8] Q. And when you said this was your [9] usual perch, where would the stool be? [10] A. Where was? Well, I guess right [11] there where the bar is. [12] Q. Right there? [13] A. Yes. [14] Q. Okay. Now, yesterday [15] Mr. Conroy asked you a bunch of questions [16] about the statement that you made about Mr. [17] O'Neill kind of jumping up off his chair and [18] reaching. Do you remember those questions [19] Mr. Conroy asked you? [20] A. Yes. [21] Q. And yesterday and today, you [22] told us that at some point you went to the [23] refrigerator. Is this the refrigerator? [24] A. Yeah, but that's not where I [25] was sitting that night when Seamus came in. I Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 153 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] was by, if you can show the other pictures of [3] the bar, there's a radiator. [4] Q. Right here. [5] A. Right down the bottom is a [6] radiator. So it was cold that night and I [7] moved over and I sat on that side. [8] Q. So you're telling the jury then [9] that you weren't sitting at your normal spot. [10] A. Right. [11] Q. Here. [12] A. Yes. [13] Q. You're telling the jury you're [14] over here. [15] A. Yes. [16] Q. Okay. [17] MR. CONROY: Indicating for the [18] record in lookng at this photograph to the [19] right-hand side of the bar closer, I guess it [20] would be to the right of where the Crime Scene [21] Unit's R label is. Fair enough, counsel? [22] MR. McMONAGLE: Yes. [23] BY MR. McMONAGLE: [24] Q. Is that right, Mr. Mooney, what [25] Mr. Conroy just said? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 154 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] A. Yes, approximately. Yeah. [3] Q. So you switched your normal [4] seat on the night of the incident. [5] A. Yes. [6] Q. Then you indicated that you got [7] up and you walked over -- if we could bring [8] that back into play, Arthur -- to the [9] refrigerator. [10] A. Yes. [11] Q. To get beers? [12] A. I got a beer, yeah. [13] Q. Opened it up? [14] A. Yes. [15] Q. And you told us that at some [16] point in time Mr. O'Neill jumps up. [17] A. Yes. [18] Q. Out of the blue and reaches. [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. In his waist. [21] A. By his waist, yes. [22] Q. That startles you, right? [23] A. Yes. [24] Q. And you push him, right? [25] A. I went, "Yo, I'm getting a Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 155 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] beer." Like, I put my hand on his shoulder. [3] Yo, get, you know. [4] Q. Put your hand on his shoulder. [5] A. Yeah. [6] Q. Is that the truth? [7] A. Yeah. I went like that. "Yo, [8] I'm getting a beer." [9] Q. You must have knocked [10] Mr. McLaughlin right out of his seat, then, [11] because you told us Mr. McLaughlin was sitting [12] right in that chair. Well, maybe not. [13] MR. CONROY: Is that a [14] question, Judge? [15] MR. McMONAGLE: I'll withdraw [16] it. I'm through. I'm through. [17] THE COURT: Is that it? Are [18] you done? [19] MR. McMONAGLE: Yes, sir. I'm [20] through. [21] THE COURT: Very well. Yes, [22] Mr. DiFabio. [23] MR. DiFABIO: Yes. Thank you, [24] Your Honor. [25] THE COURT: Put the lights up, Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 156 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 39 (page 153 - 156) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] please. [3] BY MR. DiFABIO: [4] Q. Mr. Mooney, I want to take you [5] back to Wednesday, January second, into [6] Thursday, January three of 2008. You [7] indicated that your shift started on January [8] second at around eleven o'clock in the [9] morning; is that correct? [10] A. Yes. Yes. [11] Q. You might have got there a [12] little bit earlier, but your shift actually [13] started at eleven o'clock in the morning, [14] correct? [15] A. Yes. [16] Q. And your shift would have ended [17] around seven o'clock in the evening on January [18] second, correct? [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. During that time while you were [21] working, you were drinking also; isn't that [22] right? [23] A. Excuse me? [24] Q. You were drinking while you [25] were working on your shift. You told us that Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 157 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] earlier. Correct? [3] A. Yeah. I had a few, yes. [4] Q. Yeah. You had three or four [5] during your shift; is that right? [6] A. Yeah. I would say, yes, but I [7] don't count. [8] Q. I didn't ask you if you were [9] counting? [10] A. Well, you said three or four. [11] Q. You had approximately three or [12] four that you remember. [13] A. Yeah. [14] Q. In fact, you testified to that [15] in another proceeding. [16] A. Okay. Yes. [17] Q. And we say three or four. Was [18] that beer and whiskey or just whiskey? [19] A. Just a shot of whiskey. [20] Q. So about three or four whiskeys [21] during that period of time. [22] A. Yes. [23] Q. After your shift ended at seven [24] o'clock, you stayed at the bar, correct? [25] A. Yes. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 158 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. And you continued to drink at [3] the bar until Seamus came into the bar around [4] 1:30, quarter of two; is that correct? [5] A. Yes. [6] Q. And you had approximately in [7] the neighborhood of about fifteen drinks [8] during that period of time, didn't you? [9] A. Probably. [10] Q. Okay. In fact, you testified [11] to that at the preliminary hearing on August [12] of '08 that you certainly had in excess of ten [13] and most likely around fifteen drinks during [14] that period of time. [15] A. Yes. [16] Q. And you were under oath then [17] when you said that in 2008; isn't that [18] correct? [19] A. As far as I can remember, yes. [20] I don't count my drinks. [21] Q. I understand that. But that's [22] what you testified to. [23] A. Yes. [24] Q. That's what you testified to at [25] the preliminary hearing under oath and today. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 159 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] You had approximately fifteen drinks in that [3] period of time. [4] A. Yes. [5] Q. And again, those drinks were [6] beer and whiskey or just whiskey? [7] A. Well, it was beer and whiskey [8] but I don't go one for one. Sometimes I'll [9] drink a beer and then I'll drink two whiskeys. [10] Q. So it was a combination of the [11] two? [12] A. Yes. [13] Q. In whatever combination that [14] may have been. [15] A. Yes. [16] Q. Now, after Seamus arrived, [17] after Mr. O'Neill arrived, you continued to [18] drink, correct? [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. And while he was there, prior [21] to the incident with the baseball bat, he was [22] there for about an hour or so; is that right? [23] A. I'm not a clock watcher. Maybe [24] a half hour, an hour. I guess, maybe. [25] Q. And during that period of time Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 160 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 40 (page 157 - 160) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] you also continued to drink, correct? [3] A. Yes. [4] Q. You had another two, I think, [5] during that period of time; is that right? [6] A. Approximately. Like I said, [7] I'm not a, I don't count my drinks or [8] whatever, you know? [9] Q. I'm just trying to get as close [10] as we can to the number. You had [11] approximately two? [12] A. Okay. I could say that, yes. [13] Q. And then after, after the [14] incident with the bat occurs, I think you [15] testified that you grabbed some beers and you [16] and Mr. Evans go up to the upstairs bar, [17] correct? [18] A. Yes. [19] Q. And we've seen that upstairs [20] bar. We saw the photograph of all the beer [21] cans, the liquor bottles, all that that was [22] upstairs, correct? [23] A. Yes. [24] Q. Now, while you were upstairs [25] there, you continued to drink; isn't that Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 161 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] correct? [3] A. Yes. [4] Q. And while you were upstairs you [5] drank two or three of the beers that you [6] brought up; is that correct? [7] A. Like I told you before, I'm [8] not, I don't count my drinks. I probably did. [9] Two or three beers, yes. [10] Q. In fact, you testified to that [11] at the preliminary hearing in 2008; isn't that [12] correct? [13] A. Yes. [14] Q. But you also brought upstairs a [15] bottle of Irish Mist; isn't that correct? [16] A. Yes. [17] Q. And that's whiskey, correct? [18] A. Yes. It's, you know, whiskey. [19] Call it whatever you like. Yeah. [20] Q. And you drank that while you [21] were upstairs also; isn't that correct? [22] A. Yes. [23] Q. By the way, did Mr. Evans have [24] anything to drink while he was upstairs? [25] A. Yes, I believe so. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 162 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. And do you recall what he was [3] drinking upstairs? Was it the beer and the [4] Irish Mist or something different? [5] A. It might have been Miller Lite. [6] He usually don't drink Miller High Lifes. He [7] drinks Miller Lite or Coors. [8] Q. So now while the two of you are [9] up there, I think you testified at the [10] preliminary hearing you had about on the [11] initial go-around upstairs, in addition to the [12] three or four beers, you had about four or [13] five shots of the Irish Mist; isn't that [14] correct? [15] A. Yes. [16] Q. And you continued to drink up [17] there for well over an hour; isn't that right? [18] A. Yes. [19] Q. In fact, you stayed there until [20] the next morning, from what we've heard; is [21] that right? [22] A. Yes. [23] Q. At some point in time you go [24] back downstairs to get more alcohol; isn't [25] that correct? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 163 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] A. Yes. [3] Q. And that's when earlier you [4] testified to when you went downstairs, that's [5] when you saw the body laying there by the [6] cooler; is that right? [7] A. There was no cooler. You mean [8] the beer box? [9] Q. The beer box. [10] A. Yeah. Yes. [11] Q. And you grabbed another four or [12] five beers at that point. [13] A. Yeah. Three, four, something [14] like that. Yes. [15] Q. And this was at least an hour, [16] hour and a half after the incident with the [17] bat; isn't that correct? [18] A. Yes. [19] Q. You go back upstairs now and [20] you and Goober start to drink those beers; [21] isn't that correct? [22] A. Yes. [23] Q. And in addition to drinking [24] those beers, you continue to drink the Irish [25] Mist, don't you? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 164 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 41 (page 161 - 164) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] A. Yes. [3] Q. In fact, I think in the [4] photograph we saw that bottle was completely [5] drained, the bottle of Irish Mist, wasn't it? [6] A. When I looked at this picture, [7] I didn't take notice how much was in that [8] bottle, but. [9] Q. You brought up there almost a [10] full bottle, didn't you? [11] A. Yes. [12] MR. DiFABIO: Your Honor, if we [13] could look at what we have as 0092. [14] BY MR. DiFABIO: [15] Q. Is that the bottle of Irish [16] Mist right there next to the white bottle? [17] A. Yes. That looks like it. Yes. [18] Q. And you can see that bottle is [19] drained. It's empty. [20] A. Is it? [21] Q. It looks that way to me. Do [22] you want to look at it closer? [23] A. Well, I'll take your word for [24] it. But I can't see it, you know. [25] Q. Can you see it there? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 165 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] A. Irish Mist is that color. I [3] don't know if it's a reflection from the -- [4] Q. Were you drinking the bottle [5] next to it? Were you drinking any of that [6] alcohol? [7] A. Which one is that? [8] Q. Either one on either side of [9] it. [10] A. The cherry, is that cherry [11] vodka? [12] Q. Yes. [13] A. I might have had, you know. I [14] might have had some. [15] Q. You might have had a few of [16] those too? [17] A. I might have, yeah. [18] MR. DiFABIO: We could have the [19] lights back on, Your Honor. [20] THE COURT: Okay. [21] BY MR. DiFABIO: [22] Q. Now, as you continued, by the [23] way, did you see Mr. Evans using any cocaine [24] or drugs up there while he was there? [25] A. No. No. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 166 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. Now, at some point in time [3] after all of this alcohol, you indicated that [4] yesterday that you came downstairs at least a [5] couple of hours later, even after that last [6] beer run, you came downstairs a couple of [7] hours later and saw Mr. Toy, correct? [8] A. Yes. [9] Q. And when you came downstairs [10] and saw Mr. Toy, you testified yesterday that [11] what you saw was him pulling Seamus by the [12] wrists and placing him on top of some blue [13] paper. [14] A. Yes. [15] Q. And at that point then you ran [16] upstairs. You went upstairs. [17] A. I didn't run. I walked. [18] Q. You walked upstairs. [19] A. Yes. Youse are contradicting [20] me, you know, sometimes. So I walked. [21] Q. I'm sorry about that. I [22] apologize. In any event, at that point you go [23] upstairs; is that correct? [24] A. Yes. [25] Q. And you stayed upstairs; is Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 167 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] that correct? [3] A. Yes. [4] Q. Until you came down much later [5] when you left. [6] A. Yes. [7] Q. The only thing you saw Mr. Toy [8] do then when you came down was grab the body [9] by the wrist and move it to on top of that [10] blue paper, correct? [11] A. Yes. [12] Q. You didn't see him wrap that [13] body at all, did you? You didn't see him [14] wrapping it with the blue paper. [15] A. No. I -- no. [16] Q. You know what wrap means. You [17] told us earlier you -- [18] A. Yeah. I said masking tape. [19] The body was wrapped. Yeah. No. [20] Q. I'm asking you, did you see him [21] wrap it with blue paper? [22] A. No. [23] Q. Did you see him wrap it with [24] duct tape? [25] A. No. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 168 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 42 (page 165 - 168) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. You know what the word wrap [3] means, do you not? [4] A. Yes. [5] Q. You even told us yesterday you [6] had your head wrapped when you had it injured, [7] correct? [8] A. Yes. [9] Q. And you made a motion, a [10] circular motion. [11] A. Yes. Yes. [12] Q. You answered some questions [13] earlier from Mr. McMonagle about lying. [14] A. Yes. [15] Q. And you told us that you never [16] lied under oath other than maybe that one [17] time. [18] A. I wasn't under oath. [19] Q. Well, you were under oath -- [20] A. Excuse me. [21] Q. You were under oath at the [22] preliminary hearing, were you not? [23] A. Yes. [24] Q. And didn't you tell us [25] yesterday and earlier today you didn't lie at Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 169 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] all under oath but maybe just that one time? [3] A. I said I lied to the [4] detectives. That was down, the first time I [5] went down to Homicide. [6] Q. But not under oath. [7] A. No. I was not under oath. [8] Q. But when you were under oath at [9] the preliminary hearing did you lie? [10] A. To the best of my ability, I [11] did not lie. [12] Q. Take a look at preliminary [13] hearing notes that are there as C-14. Do you [14] have those up there with you, the preliminary [15] hearing notes? [16] THE COURT: What page, counsel? [17] MR. DiFABIO: Page sixty-nine, [18] Your Honor. [19] THE COURT: Sir, hand me that. [20] THE WITNESS: The whole thing? [21] THE COURT: Yeah, the notes. I [22] can get it for him. [23] THE WITNESS: Here, I got it. [24] Oh. [25] THE COURT: I'll give it back Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 170 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] to you. What page, counselor? [3] MR. DiFABIO: Sixty-nine, Your [4] Honor. May I approach the witness, Your [5] Honor? I can assist the witness, possibly [6] direct him to the line. [7] THE COURT: All right. I'm [8] going to put it on the page and counsel will [9] direct you to the line. The top left-hand [10] corner is the page. All right? The top thing [11] here, like that. Here you go. Hold it there. [12] Do you see it, top half? [13] THE WITNESS: Yes. [14] THE COURT: Tell him what line. [15] MR. DiFABIO: May I have [16] permission to approach, Your Honor? [17] THE COURT: Yes. [18] MR. DiFABIO: Continuing [19] permission, Your Honor? [20] THE COURT: Yeah. [21] MR. DiFABIO: Thank you. [22] BY MR. DiFABIO: [23] Q. This is the preliminary hearing [24] transcript from August twenty, 2008, where you [25] were placed under oath to testify in this Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 171 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] courthouse. Do you recall that? [3] A. Yes. [4] Q. Looking at page sixty-nine, [5] looking at line fifteen and sixteen. "I saw [6] him wrapped." [7] "Who wrapped him up?" [8] "John and Sam Toy." [9] You never saw Sam Toy wrap him [10] up, did you? [11] A. They were -- [12] Q. Didn't you just tell us a [13] minute ago you never saw him wrap him up? [14] A. Yeah. They were fucking around [15] with him. Excuse my language. [16] THE COURT: Yeah. Tell us what [17] you saw. [18] THE WITNESS: Excuse me. I'm [19] sorry. [20] THE COURT: That's all right. [21] Go ahead. [22] THE WITNESS: They were [23] monkeying around with Seamus's body. [24] MR. DiFABIO: You understand [25] what the word -- Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 172 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 43 (page 169 - 172) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] MR. CONROY: Just let him [3] finish. Judge, I don't object to the [4] question. Just please let him finish the [5] answer. [6] THE COURT: What were they [7] doing? [8] THE WITNESS: They were putting [9] the body on the blue wrap and whatever they [10] were doing to it. [11] BY MR. DiFABIO: [12] Q. Well, didn't you tell us a [13] minute ago -- [14] A. Yeah. I know you said wrap. I [15] saw the body. [16] Q. You have to let me finish my [17] question. I'm going to try not to interrupt [18] you. You don't interrupt me. [19] A. Okay. You're right. [20] Q. It makes it easier on the [21] stenographer here. Didn't you just tell us a [22] minute ago the only thing you saw Sam Toy do [23] was grab the body by the wrists and move it [24] onto the paper? Isn't that what you just told [25] us a minute ago? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 173 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] A. Yes. [3] Q. And didn't you tell us [4] yesterday that's all you saw him do? [5] A. Yes. [6] Q. And in fact, later on in this [7] transcript, let's go to page ninety-two. [8] THE COURT: Do you want to get [9] that for him? [10] MR. DiFABIO: I will, Your [11] Honor. Thank you. It starts at the bottom. [12] I asked you a series of questions. "Did you [13] see Sam Toy move the body?" [14] MR. CONROY: I'm sorry. What [15] line? [16] MR. DiFABIO: Ninety-two, line [17] six, seven. [18] MR. CONROY: Thank you. [19] BY MR. DiFABIO: [20] Q. "Did you see Sam move the [21] body?" [22] "Yeah." [23] "How did he move it?" [24] "I guess his two hands." [25] "Don't guess. Tell me what you Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 174 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] remember." [3] "His two hands pulling." [4] Question: "Pulling what? The [5] legs? The arms? The shoulders?" [6] Your answer: "The arms." [7] "So you saw him pulling the [8] arms." [9] A. Yes. Yes. [10] Q. And your answer was, "And I [11] went upstairs. Told me to get out of here and [12] I went upstairs." [13] A. Yes. [14] Q. Isn't that what you testified [15] to? [16] A. Yes. [17] Q. And then on page [18] ninety-three, -- turn the page -- I asked you [19] the following questions starting at line [20] sixteen. "You didn't see him grab the paper [21] and wrap it around the body, did you?" [22] Your answer: "No. I went [23] upstairs." [24] A. "No. I went upstairs." [25] Q. "You didn't see him grab the Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 175 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] paper and wrap." [3] "No. I didn't see any more. [4] That was it." [5] Isn't that what your answer [6] was? [7] A. Yes. [8] Q. And isn't that -- [9] A. At that time. [10] Q. And isn't that the truth? [11] A. Yes. [12] Q. So you did not see him wrap the [13] body. You didn't see him wrap that blue paper [14] around the body, did you? [15] A. No, at that time. [16] Q. And you didn't see him wrap any [17] duct tape around that body. [18] A. No, at that time. [19] Q. And then you testified that, [20] page ninety-four, "You were upstairs for a [21] long time?" [22] MR. CONROY: I'm sorry? [23] MR. DiFABIO: I'm sorry. Line [24] twelve. [25] MR. CONROY: Fair enough. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 176 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 44 (page 173 - 176) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Thank you, counsel. [3] BY MR. DiFABIO: [4] Q. "I was up there for a long [5] time. I believe I fell asleep." Is that what [6] you testified to? [7] A. Yes. [8] Q. Next question. "When you came [9] back downstairs the second time, the third [10] time, whatever it is, you didn't see the body [11] at that point." And your answer was what? [12] A. "No." [13] Q. Mr. Mooney, you also gave a [14] number of statements that we've already talked [15] about. I want to concentrate on a few of [16] those statements right now. You gave a [17] statement on January the fourth. That [18] statement is marked as Exhibit C-9A. [19] THE COURT: Do you have that [20] there, sir? C-9A. [21] THE WITNESS: Yes. [22] THE COURT: It should be on the [23] top right-hand corner. [24] THE WITNESS: I got it. [25] THE COURT: Okay. Go ahead, Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 177 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Mr. DiFabio. [3] MR. DiFABIO: Thank you. [4] BY MR. DiFABIO: [5] Q. In that statement, have you [6] looked at that statement? You've read it [7] recently, I presume? [8] A. He just went over that, Mr. [9] McMonagle did. [10] Q. Okay. Anywhere in that [11] statement, -- this is the first statement that [12] you gave to the detectives -- anywhere in that [13] statement where you mention Sam Toy at all? [14] A. No, but -- [15] Q. And in fact -- [16] MR. CONROY: Let him finish. [17] THE WITNESS: No. [18] MR. CONROY: If he just wants [19] to explain, Judge, that's all I'd ask. [20] THE COURT: No what, sir? [21] THE WITNESS: The first [22] statement I gave to the homicide detectives? [23] MR. DiFABIO: Yes. [24] THE WITNESS: I wanted to get [25] out of that homicide place and go. That's why Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 178 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] I said I took a cab. [3] BY MR. DiFABIO: [4] Q. I didn't ask you about a cab. [5] I asked you about Sam. You didn't mention [6] Sam? [7] A. I know that, but I'm explaining [8] what I wanted to do. I didn't want to get [9] nobody else. I didn't want to get nobody in [10] trouble. I didn't want to bother with this [11] case. [12] Q. So even at the end when they [13] said to you, you know, Mr. Mooney, is there [14] anything else you can add to aid us in this [15] investigation, this question here, your answer [16] was no; is that correct? [17] A. That's correct. Like I said [18] before, I just wanted to get out of that, you [19] know, police station. [20] Q. The second statement was -- by [21] the way, while you were at, while you were at [22] the bar that night into the next morning, did [23] Rick show up, Rick Parkhurst? [24] A. When was that? [25] Q. The next morning, on Thursday. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 179 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] A. You're saying next morning. [3] What date? The Thursday or Friday? [4] Q. Thursday. I'm sorry. Thursday [5] morning. Did Rick show up? [6] A. I believe not. [7] Q. If you look at your next [8] statement, which is C-9B, which is the one on [9] 1/7, January the seventh of 2008. [10] A. I don't have it. Oh. Here it [11] is. It's down there. [12] Q. Let me direct you to page five, [13] five at the top there. If you read up at the [14] top paragraph here towards the end, again, [15] this is now Thursday. Didn't you tell the [16] police that you saw Rick there and Rick was [17] mopping up the floor? [18] A. Yes. [19] Q. Okay. Does that refresh your [20] recollection that Rick had come in on Thursday [21] and was mopping? [22] A. Yes. He did it, you know, one [23] of them days. Yes. [24] Q. Now, you indicated yesterday [25] that Sam Toy would do some work around the Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 180 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 45 (page 177 - 180) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] bar; is that correct? [3] A. Yes. [4] Q. He would do some maintenance [5] work? [6] A. Yes. Helped in the kitchen. [7] Q. Helped in the kitchen? Washed [8] dishes, maybe? [9] A. Yes. [10] Q. Do a little bit of other [11] repairwork around the bar; is that correct? [12] A. Yes. Sam was a handyman. [13] Q. Would he also run some errands [14] for you if you needed something picked up, for [15] example? [16] A. Yes. [17] Q. Would he go pick up beer for [18] you if need be? [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. And alcohol if need be? [21] A. Yes. [22] Q. And any kind of supplies if you [23] needed them? [24] A. Yes. [25] Q. And you stored the beer, I Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 181 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] believe, down in the basement; isn't that [3] correct? [4] A. Yes. [5] Q. And when Sam would go pick up [6] the beer for you, would that beer then get [7] stored in the basement? [8] A. That's a question, all depends [9] how busy the bar was, you know. Sometimes [10] when I sent him out we needed the beer. I [11] wouldn't send him out if I didn't need the [12] beer. So he would bring it in. [13] Q. And other times he would bring [14] it down to the basement; is that correct? [15] A. If there was excess, over two [16] cases or something I ordered, it would have [17] been, yes. [18] Q. And to bring it down in the [19] basement, he would go in through those Bilco [20] doors to go down the steps and bring it in [21] there; is that right? [22] A. Yes. [23] Q. And he would park the truck or [24] whatever he was driving near those Bilco doors [25] that we saw, those gray doors that we saw in Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 182 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] the photograph, in order to bring the stuff [3] right down into the basement, correct? [4] A. Yes. [5] Q. And he did that on a number of [6] occasions; isn't that right? [7] A. Yes. [8] Q. I want to stay with this [9] statement that we have that's in your hand [10] right now. You were asked at the bottom of, [11] let's go to page three. Page three at the [12] very bottom, there's a question from the [13] detectives. "Go on in your own words and tell [14] us what happened inside McWhitey's on [15] Wednesday night, early Thursday morning, [16] 1/2/08 into 1/3/08." Is that the question? [17] A. Yes. [18] Q. So they asked you to explain in [19] your own words what happened throughout the [20] entire incident, correct? [21] A. Yes. [22] Q. If you turn the page, you gave [23] then a long statement that takes about a page [24] and a third, correct? That page and about a [25] third of the top of the next page, correct? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 183 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] A. Yes. [3] Q. Going through that, if you turn [4] to the page, I believe the first time you [5] mention Mr. Toy is towards the end of that [6] statement, correct? It's right after you say, [7] "I fell asleep." [8] A. Yes. [9] Q. That's the first time you [10] mentioned him in that long dissertation, [11] correct? [12] A. Yes. [13] Q. And what you said there is, "I [14] went downstairs and I seen John and Sammy Toy. [15] Sammy was mopping up. Then Rick came in with [16] two coffees, one for me and one for him. He [17] does it every day. Then Rick started mopping [18] up. Then around one p.m. I left." Correct? [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. And that's where you ended that [21] statement, correct? [22] MR. CONROY: Well, wait a [23] minute. Objection. You mean the end of the [24] answer, not the statement. [25] BY MR. DiFABIO: Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 184 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 46 (page 181 - 184) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. The end of the answer to that [3] part, correct? [4] A. Which part? Where at? [5] Q. Right here where you said "one [6] p.m. I left." Is that where that ends? [7] A. Yes. [8] Q. Then the next question is, [9] "Tell us about the next day. Tell us about [10] Friday morning." Correct? Is that what the [11] next question is? [12] A. Yes. [13] Q. So the part that deals with [14] them giving you an opportunity to explain in [15] your own words what happened 1/2/08 to 1/3/08, [16] the only thing you mention about Sam Toy is [17] that you saw him mopping up in that part of [18] the statement, correct? In that part of the [19] statement where you're given an opportunity to [20] explain in your own words. I'm at page three [21] on to four and the top of five. The only [22] thing you mention there is seeing him mop up; [23] isn't that correct? [24] A. I didn't read it, three or [25] four. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 185 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] Q. The bottom of page three is [3] where it starts. It starts with the question, [4] correct? [5] A. Yes. [6] Q. That's the question. And then [7] the answer consumes all of page four. [8] A. Yes. [9] Q. Do you want to read page four? [10] Are you still reading? [11] A. Yes. I can't read some of this [12] writing. [13] Q. I don't know what that word is. [14] It looks like "bar." [15] A. Okay. [16] Q. Anywhere on page four where you [17] see with this long explanation of what [18] happened, do you see Sammy Toy's name [19] mentioned in there at all? [20] A. No. [21] Q. Let's go to the next page, top [22] of page five. You continue with the [23] explanation, correct? [24] A. Yes. [25] Q. And what's the only thing you Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 186 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] mention Sam Toy doing? Isn't it, "I saw Sam [3] Toy, Sammy was mopping up"? [4] A. Yes. [5] Q. So in this part of the [6] explanation you never mentioned seeing him [7] grab the body by the arms, did you? [8] A. No. [9] Q. And you didn't mention him [10] putting it on top of a blue tarp, did you? [11] A. No. [12] Q. Now, later in that same [13] statement, -- go to page seven, please -- you [14] were asked a question towards the bottom of [15] the page, "Who wrapped Seamus's body?" And [16] your answer was, "I saw Sammy and John [17] wrapping the body in something." Isn't that [18] what you said? [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. Again, you didn't mention a [21] blue tarp at that point with that answer. [22] A. In that question I didn't see [23] he was wrapped in a blue tarp. [24] Q. You didn't say -- [25] A. But somewhere along the line, Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 187 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] somebody asked me something. I said a blue [3] tarp. [4] Q. But you didn't say it in [5] response to this question. [6] A. Not that question there, no. [7] Q. And you didn't say duct tape. [8] A. No. [9] Q. Mr. Mooney, when you were at [10] the bar Friday, -- [11] A. Yes. [12] Q. -- you indicated that some [13] members of Mr. O'Neill's family came to the [14] bar, correct? [15] A. Yes. [16] Q. And I think yesterday you [17] indicated that, you know, they had made a [18] number of comments to you, threatening [19] comments to you; is that correct? [20] A. Yes. [21] Q. And those comments were [22] something to the effect of, you know, enjoy [23] that drink, it may be your last drink. [24] A. Yes. [25] Q. That's my brother down there or Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 188 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 47 (page 185 - 188) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] relative down there, you know. [3] A. Yes. [4] Q. And they also, I think you [5] mentioned that they, the ashtrays were broken. [6] How were the ashtrays broken? [7] A. They threw them. [8] Q. How many? [9] A. I don't know. I didn't count. [10] Q. And they threw them with such [11] force that the ashtrays actually broke? [12] A. They're plastic. I don't know. [13] Some might have broke, some may not. [14] Q. And did the ashtrays hit [15] against a wall? What happened to them? [16] A. They threw them at, I don't [17] know. They were trying to throw them at me or [18] whatever they were doing. But the ashtrays [19] were thrown. They were plastic ashtrays. [20] They weighed about maybe a half, I don't know, [21] so many ounces, six ounces, seven, or twelve [22] ounces. I don't know. [23] Q. When the police officer arrived [24] on the scene, she indicated that you were [25] having a number of drinks while you were there Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 189 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] on Friday morning; is that correct? [3] A. Yes. [4] Q. You actually had about four or [5] five before you went to the station, did you [6] not? [7] A. Four or five? [8] Q. Drinks. [9] A. Yeah. I would say, yeah. You [10] know, like I told, tried to tell you before, I [11] didn't count my drinks. I don't go one, two, [12] three, four, five, you know. [13] Q. The night of the second into [14] the morning of the third, you indicated you [15] were upstairs for a long period of time with [16] Mr. Evans. John came up for some period of [17] time. Did you ever see Sam Toy come upstairs [18] to the upstairs bar area? [19] A. No. [20] Q. When you finally came [21] downstairs after spending all the that time up [22] there and all the drinking that you did, was [23] Sam still there? [24] A. What time was that? [25] Q. This would have been early in Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 190 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] the morning on Thursday morning after all the [3] drinking, after you saw the mopping. Was he [4] still there? [5] A. Yes. Sam was still there, yes. [6] Q. And he was just sitting there; [7] isn't that correct? At that point. [8] A. Yes. [9] Q. And you decided to leave at [10] that point or did you remain there? [11] A. I remained there. What's this? [12] On the Thursday? [13] Q. This is Thursday morning. [14] A. I remained there about two to [15] three, three, two to three, like, two or three [16] p.m., I assume. Like I'm saying, I'm no clock [17] watcher and I don't count. [18] Q. And you told us under oath at [19] the preliminary hearing when you came down [20] that time you didn't see any body. You didn't [21] see the body at that point. [22] A. That is correct. [23] MR. DiFABIO: Your Honor, one [24] moment, please? [25] THE COURT: Sure. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 191 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] BY MR. DiFABIO: [3] Q. Mr. Mooney, you've indicated [4] that while you were at the bar that morning [5] there were some threats made by Seamus's [6] family. Just yes or no to this. Were there [7] still some rumors in the neighborhood over -- [8] A. What day was this? [9] Q. This was Friday morning when [10] they were there. [11] A. Friday morning, yes. [12] Q. They came in, made some threats [13] to you, correct? [14] A. Yes. [15] Q. Please answer this just yes or [16] know if you can. [17] A. Yes. [18] Q. Over the next week or so, did [19] you hear rumors of -- [20] MR. CONROY: I'm going to [21] object, Judge. [22] THE COURT: Sustained. [23] MR. CONROY: I don't know what [24] the question is, but -- [25] MR. DiFABIO: Your Honor, can I Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 192 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 48 (page 189 - 192) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] see you at sidebar, please? [3] THE COURT: Yeah, all right. [4] (The following conference was [5] held at sidebar.) [6] THE COURT: Okay. Let's keep [7] your voices down. [8] MR. DiFABIO: I'll try, Your [9] Honor. Your Honor, I anticipate that at some [10] point Mr. Conroy is going to be arguing flight [11] and consciousness of guilt because both [12] Mr. Toy and Mr. McLaughlin were, quote [13] unquote, fugitives for approximately a week or [14] so and then were apprehended together at a [15] motel room in Quakertown. [16] THE COURT: Right. [17] MR. DiFABIO: I believe the law [18] is only somewhat clear that if there's a [19] reason for the flight, that is admissible [20] evidence to explain why you would flee or why [21] you would not turn yourself in in order to [22] rebut that evidence of consciousness of guilt, [23] which is again only a presumption from flight. [24] Here, there was a number of [25] threats, rumors going around the neighborhood Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 193 [1] Raymond Mooney - cross [2] that anybody associated with this bar or [3] anyone involved with this bar, that there was [4] at least some threats posed against them. My [5] client lived in Mr. McLaughlin's home, one of [6] his homes. He worked there at the bar and was [7] subject to some of those rumors. So I think [8] it can be used. Again, I'm trying to limit [9] it. I don't want to get into any specifics. [10] I'm just trying to limit it to the rumors [11] about the allegations of threats in order to [12] rebut the consciousness of guilt. [13] THE COURT: I understand your [14] point. Mr. Conroy. [15] MR. CONROY: Judge, my argument [16] is there can be a lot of reasons why people [17] flee. You're going to charge the jury on [18] that. But it has to be competent evidence, [19] Judge. I mean, there has to be competent [20] evidence. [21] THE COURT: At this point just [22] rumor, it's speculation and conjecture so I'm [23] not going to allow it. I'm going to sustain [24] the objection. [25] (Conference held at sidebar Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 194 [1] Raymond Mooney - redirect [2] concluded.) [3] THE COURT: Very well. You may [4] continue, Mr. DiFabio. [5] MR. DiFABIO: Thank you, Your [6] Honor. If I could just have one moment, Your [7] Honor. [8] THE COURT: Sure. [9] MR. DiFABIO: Your Honor, [10] that's all the questions I have. [11] THE COURT: Very well. Any [12] redirect? [13] MR. CONROY: May I, Judge? [14] THE COURT: Yes. [15] REDIRECT EXAMINATION [16] BY MR. CONROY: [17] Q. If I can, Mr. Mooney, I'm going [18] to pick up on some questions that Mr. DiFabio [19] asked a moment ago. He spoke, he asked you [20] one or two questions. I'm going to go to the [21] notes of testimony, counsel, which is from [22] August twentieth, 2008, and they're the notes [23] of testimony which were marked Commonwealth [24] Exhibit C-14. [25] Mr. Mooney, you don't have do Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 195 [1] Raymond Mooney - redirect [2] pick anything up. Just see if you remember [3] these questions and these answers. You were [4] under oath. You were asked some questions. [5] Counsel, we're going to refer to page [6] ninety-one and I'm going to start with line [7] nineteen. Mr. Mooney, you were questioned by [8] then Assistant District Attorney Mark Gilson [9] about what happened after Seamus was beat. [10] These were your questions that were asked. [11] These were your responses. [12] Question: "You go upstairs. [13] When you go upstairs, had you seen him do [14] anything with the body up to that point?" [15] Talking about Sammy Toy. [16] "I seen him wrap it." [17] Question: "Before you go [18] upstairs, you see him start to wrap the body?" [19] Answer: "Yes." [20] Question: "What did you see [21] him do exactly? What do you recall seeing [22] him, see him doing?" [23] Answer: "Drag the body out and [24] start, you know, whatever." [25] Question. These are by Mr. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 196 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 49 (page 193 - 196) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - redirect [2] DiFabio. "So you saw Sam move the body?" [3] Answer: "What?" [4] Question: "You saw Sam move [5] the body?" [6] Answer: "Yeah." [7] Question: "How did he move [8] it?" [9] Answer: "I guess his two [10] hands." [11] Question: "Don't guess. Tell [12] me what you remember." [13] Answer: "His two hands [14] pulling." [15] Question: "Pulling what? [16] Legs? The arms? The shoulders?" [17] Answer: "The arms." [18] Question: "So you saw him [19] pulling the arms?" [20] Answer: "And I went upstairs. [21] Told me to get out of here and I went [22] upstairs." [23] Question: "So when you saw him [24] pull it, then somebody said go upstairs, you [25] went upstairs?" Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 197 [1] Raymond Mooney - redirect [2] "Yes, I went upstairs." [3] Question: "You didn't actually [4] see him wrap the body. You saw him pull the [5] body." [6] Answer: "Well, there was [7] blue." [8] Question: "I'm not asking you [9] that. Did you see him pull the body?" [10] "Yes." [11] Question: "Did you see him at [12] all do any kind of wrapping?" [13] "Yes." [14] Question: "Was that before you [15] went upstairs or when you came back down?" [16] Answer: "When I was downstairs [17] they put the body on the blue paper wrap." [18] Question: "So you saw him put [19] it on top of some blue tarp or paper." [20] Answer: "Right, and I went [21] upstairs." [22] Question: "When he lays the [23] body on top of the blue paper, you go [24] upstairs?" [25] "Yes." Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 198 [1] Raymond Mooney - redirect [2] Question: "You didn't see him [3] grab the paper and wrap it around the body, [4] did you?" [5] Answer: "No. I went [6] upstairs." [7] Question: "You didn't see him [8] grab the paper and wrap?" [9] "No. I didn't see any more. [10] That was it." [11] Question: "You didn't see him [12] get any duct tape and wrap it around the [13] body?" [14] Answer: "No, I didn't see it [15] either." [16] Question: "All you saw him do [17] was move the body onto some blue paper." [18] Answer: "Yes." [19] Question: "And that was it." [20] Answer: "Yes." [21] Do you remember testifying to [22] that? That's what you saw Sammy Toy do? [23] A. Yes. [24] Q. Okay. And was that the truth? [25] A. Yes. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 199 [1] Raymond Mooney - redirect [2] Q. So when you in your statement [3] say I saw wrapping, you just assumed that but [4] you didn't actually see that. [5] A. Yes. [6] Q. Just so it's abundantly clear, [7] Mr. Mooney, did Samuel Toy, was he in the bar [8] when Seamus was beaten that night? [9] A. No. [10] Q. Did he have anything at all to [11] do with it? [12] A. No. [13] Q. And other than you saw him [14] placing Seamus on the blue paper, correct? [15] A. Yes. [16] Q. And I think you indicated you [17] actually saw him mopping, correct? [18] A. Yes. [19] Q. Okay. But just so it's clear, [20] Mr. Toy was not present and had absolutely [21] nothing to do with the beating of Seamus. [22] Fair enough? [23] A. Yes. [24] Q. Okay. And by the way, Sammy [25] Toy is a friend of whose? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 200 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 50 (page 197 - 200) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - redirect [2] A. John. [3] Q. John McLaughlin, correct? [4] A. Yeah. [5] Q. By the way, when -- [6] A. And he's a friend of mine too. [7] I know him. [8] Q. And a friend of yours. [9] A. Yeah. [10] Q. Fair enough. Let me ask you [11] this, Mr. Mooney. After Seamus was beaten, [12] did you call Sammy to come to the bar? [13] A. No. [14] Q. To the best of your knowledge, [15] when you're upstairs drinking away with Bobby [16] Evans up there, Goober, did you see him call [17] Sammy Toy? [18] A. No. [19] Q. Okay. Counsel also asked [20] about, you know, there was some questions [21] about what you said in the statements, you [22] know, you lied, you didn't lie. Let me back [23] up a little bit. Mr. Mooney, when you went [24] down to the police station, without looking at [25] the exhibits, when you went down to the police Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 201 [1] Raymond Mooney - redirect [2] station on January fourth, that Friday morning [3] when Seamus's body is found and you go down to [4] the police station drunk, sober, whatever you [5] are, do you tell them the truth? [6] A. No. [7] Q. Why did you lie to them? [8] A. Because I wanted to get out of [9] there. [10] Q. Did you want to be involved as [11] a witness? [12] A. No. [13] Q. Was John your friend? [14] A. Yes. [15] Q. Did he employ you? [16] A. Yes. [17] Q. Did he help put clothes on your [18] back? [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. Did he let you run the book in [21] the bar? [22] A. Yes. [23] Q. Did you want to jam him up and [24] have him involved in this? [25] A. No. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 202 [1] Raymond Mooney - redirect [2] Q. What did you do when the police [3] asked you what you saw? [4] A. I said I wasn't there. [5] Q. Okay. [6] A. I said I wasn't there and I [7] took a cab home. [8] Q. And Mr. DiFabio asked you did [9] you mention Samuel Toy during that statement. [10] A. No. [11] Q. And why did you lie about him? [12] A. Because he's my friend. [13] Q. And you didn't want to get him [14] involved. [15] A. I didn't want nothing to do [16] with this case. [17] Q. By the way, you were eventually [18] I think in response to some questions by Mr. [19] McMonagle, you eventually told us that you [20] were questioned that Friday, the first [21] statement, correct? [22] A. Yes. [23] Q. You lied. And then you come [24] back on January seventh. I think you said [25] it's a Monday, correct? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 203 [1] Raymond Mooney - redirect [2] A. Yes, I believe. [3] Q. Yeah. It was a Monday. [4] A. You know better than I do. [5] Yes. [6] Q. But before you, just before you [7] went back and counsel, both counsel, asked you [8] some questions about that second statement you [9] gave on January seventh, before you went down [10] to give that statement on January seventh, [11] that Monday, homicide investigators actually [12] went to your apartment, correct? And searched [13] your house, correct? [14] A. That was either between [15] Saturday or Monday or Sunday. I don't know [16] what day that they came in. Yes. [17] Q. Because you weren't there, I [18] think you told counsel. Right? [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. Where were you? [21] A. I was up, Saturday I went up [22] my, my niece Patty and I went up there. She [23] saw it on the news and all that bit. She says [24] what's, you know. I says I'm tired. [25] Q. Okay. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 204 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 51 (page 201 - 204) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - redirect [2] A. And she says how about, why [3] don't you come up here and get something to [4] eat, you know, and get some rest. [5] Q. Were you nervous? [6] A. Yes. [7] Q. By the way, while you were up [8] at your sister's that Sunday, did you stay [9] there that Sunday? [10] A. It was my niece. I'm sorry. I [11] want to correct you on that. [12] Q. Did you receive a telephone [13] call from John McLaughlin that Sunday? [14] A. Yes. [15] Q. And what did John McLaughlin, [16] the defendant, tell you to do that Sunday [17] before you even give your second statement to [18] Homicide? What does he tell you to do, Mr. [19] Mooney? [20] A. He says, "I'm sorry getting you [21] in this predicament" and says "you saw a gun." [22] Q. He wanted you to say you saw a [23] gun? [24] A. Yes. [25] Q. On who? On who? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 205 [1] Raymond Mooney - redirect [2] A. He just said on Seamus. [3] Q. Okay. Yeah. On Seamus. He [4] wanted you to lie and say Seamus had a gun? [5] A. Yeah. [6] Q. I want to ask you this, Mr. [7] Mooney. Did you ever that night ever see [8] Seamus with a gun? [9] A. No. [10] Q. Did you ever see a gun during [11] the course of this incident? Not the one [12] that's found by Rick Parkhurst the following [13] morning. I want to know that night, at any [14] point in time when you saw Seamus beaten, did [15] you ever see a gun whatsoever? [16] A. No. [17] Q. Did a gun have anything to do [18] with the beating of Seamus? [19] A. No. [20] Q. Mr. Mooney, counsel asked you a [21] few questions about when, what happened and [22] about the second statement. After, after [23] McLaughlin called you that Sunday -- and by [24] the way, where was it that he was able to find [25] you? Where did he call you? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 206 [1] Raymond Mooney - redirect [2] A. My niece's house. [3] Q. He found you at your niece's [4] house. That's where you received a call? [5] A. Yes. I believe, yes. [6] Q. Okay. By the way, when you go [7] down the following day and homicide detectives [8] take a statement from you, do you tell them [9] that Seamus has a gun or do you tell them the [10] truth? [11] A. I told them the truth. [12] Q. Okay. And Mr. DiFabio, I [13] think, made mention of that and talked about [14] when Sammy Toy's name was mentioned. Let's [15] go. He started with the question on page [16] four. This is the statement, counsel, that [17] was given to Homicide on 1/7 at five p.m. [18] Second statement, Mr. Mooney. This is when [19] you told, according to you, you told the [20] truth. [21] Question: "Go on in your own [22] words and tell us what happened inside [23] McWhitey's on Wednesday night, early Thursday [24] morning, 1/2/08 into 1/3/08." Mr. DiFabio [25] just asked that. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 207 [1] Raymond Mooney - redirect [2] I'm going to read the whole [3] answer. See if you remember. "My shift was [4] over at seven p.m. I stayed there and had a [5] couple of drinks. Later on I called for a cab [6] to go home. Actually, I was going to Arby's [7] first to get cinnamon buns, then go home. [8] The cab came and I was going to cancel because [9] John said he would give me a ride. Some girl [10] took the cab. [11] "Then around 1:45 a.m. Seamus [12] came in and sat down by this window by the [13] front of the bar. He had a couple of drinks. [14] Then he moved around to the side of the beer [15] box where John McLaughlin was. Him and John [16] started talking. They were fine at first. I [17] think they even bought each other drinks. [18] Then they got into an argument. Then John got [19] a baseball bat from behind the bar and then he [20] whacked him, hit him. John kept hitting on [21] Seamus till Seamus finally dropped. [22] "I said fuck this and went and [23] got a couple of cans of beer and went [24] upstairs. A little while later Bob Evans came [25] upstairs with some beers. Then I think John Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 208 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 52 (page 205 - 208) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - redirect [2] came up. We all just sat there and John said [3] he thinks the guy is dead. John went [4] downstairs and me and Bob Evans stayed [5] upstairs. Me and Bob stayed there all night. [6] We stayed upstairs. I fell asleep there and [7] when I got up, I went downstairs and I seen [8] John McLaughlin and Sammy Toy and Sammy Toy [9] was mopping up. Then Rick came in with two [10] coffees, one for me, one for him. He does it [11] every day. Then Rick started mopping up. [12] Then around one p.m. I left." [13] Did you tell that to the [14] detectives, Mr. Mooney? Is that what you? Is [15] that the answer? [16] A. I told somebody. [17] Q. Right. And was that the truth, [18] Mr. Mooney? [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. Okay. And you didn't mention [21] Sammy Toy in that interview up to that point [22] until the end. Sammy Toy wasn't present when [23] Seamus was beaten, correct? [24] A. That's correct. [25] Q. Okay. And I think counsel says Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 209 [1] Raymond Mooney - redirect [2] you were then asked the following question, [3] next question. I think Mr. McMonagle asked [4] you this morning and I know it seems like an [5] eternity ago. But he asked you, Mr. Mooney, [6] you never mentioned seeing Seamus's body in a [7] tarp or seeing blue tarp. Do you remember you [8] were asked that this morning? And you said -- [9] A. Yeah. [10] Q. -- I guess I didn't mention [11] it. [12] A. Yeah. I don't remember, but I [13] guess I did if you say so. [14] Q. Well, I'm going to read your [15] answer that morning January seventh, or that [16] afternoon, that Monday. The next question on [17] that same January seventh statement: "Tell me [18] about Friday morning." [19] "I got there about ten after [20] eleven. About five minutes later the linen [21] guy showed up and I paid him. Then Rick [22] showed up. Then all these people showed up. [23] They were saying that their brother's car was [24] across the street and he is missing and asked [25] if they could look around. I said sure. So Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 210 [1] Raymond Mooney - redirect [2] they looked around. First they went to the [3] back of the bar and looked in the kitchen and [4] then they went upstairs, and when they came [5] down a girl asked if she could look down the [6] basement and I said sure. So I turned the [7] light on and I opened the trap and put the [8] chain on the trap door. Two girls and one guy [9] went downstairs. They were there for a few [10] seconds and came up crying, saying their [11] brother is down there. Then I went halfway [12] down and saw a tarp in the shape of a body." [13] Do you recall telling that to [14] Jack Cummings, the detective? [15] A. Yes. [16] Q. And was that the truth? [17] A. Yes. [18] Q. And when you went down the [19] stairs, Mr. Mooney, did you see part of the [20] part, the blue tarp? [21] A. Yes. [22] Q. Finishing the answer, "I went [23] right back upstairs. Then the guy went down [24] and said if that's my brother, you're fucked. [25] I started drinking. Then the cops came. Then Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 211 [1] Raymond Mooney - redirect [2] just before the cops got there, the one Irish [3] guy says go ahead and have a drink, because [4] that may be your last." [5] Do you remember that, sir? [6] A. Yes. [7] Q. Was that the truth, Mr. Mooney? [8] A. Yes. [9] Q. Did you ever tell Detective [10] Cummings at any point in that statement that [11] Seamus had a gun? [12] A. No. [13] Q. Because he didn't, right? [14] Correct? [15] A. I didn't see one. [16] Q. John wanted you to say he had [17] one, correct? [18] A. Yes. [19] Q. Now, Mr. McMonagle asked you [20] some questions about, you know, did you lie at [21] the preliminary hearing, and he asked about a [22] gun. He asked you a couple questions about a [23] gun, correct? [24] A. Yes. [25] Q. Okay. Well, you were actually Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 212 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 53 (page 209 - 212) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - redirect [2] on the stand for, I think the record will [3] reflect, back on August eighth, August [4] twentieth, I'm sorry, 2008, you were on the [5] stand for a while, about, I believe it's [6] fifty-three pages worth of testimony. They [7] asked you a lot of questions that day, [8] correct? [9] A. Yes. [10] Q. Okay. And I believe before [11] they ever mentioned anything about a gun there [12] was some questions about what you saw happen [13] in the bar that day, correct? [14] A. Yes. [15] Q. Okay. And they asked you. [16] Counsel, I'm going to go if I can page [17] sixty-three, starting at line three. Mr. [18] Mooney, see if you remember testifying to this [19] back at the preliminary hearing back on August [20] twentieth, 2008, seven months after the [21] incident. [22] "Mr. Mooney, in the early [23] morning hours of Thursday, January third, [24] 2008, were you inside of McWhitey's Bar when [25] Seamus O'Neill was killed?" Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 213 [1] Raymond Mooney - redirect [2] "Yes." [3] Question: "Who killed him?" [4] Answer: "John hit him with a [5] bat." [6] Question: "When you say John, [7] you pointed to John McLaughlin?" [8] Answer: "Yes." [9] "Are you saying that John [10] McLaughlin killed him with a baseball bat?" [11] Answer: "Yes." [12] Do you remember those questions [13] and those answers? [14] A. Do I remember them? [15] Q. Yes? [16] A. Yes. Vaguely, yeah. [17] Q. And were you being truthful? [18] Did you tell the judge who you saw hit Seamus [19] with a bat? [20] A. Yes. [21] Q. And, Mr. Mooney, who did you [22] see hit Seamus with a bat? [23] A. John McLaughlin. [24] Q. Any doubt in your mind, sir? [25] A. No. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 214 [1] Raymond Mooney - redirect [2] Q. Sir, you also were asked at [3] that hearing, I think, if we can fast forward [4] to page sixty-five. Question at line sixteen: [5] "And then what happened?" [6] Your response was, Mr. Mooney, [7] "What do you mean? They were talking and then [8] whatever happened, John walked behind the bar [9] and got a baseball bat and hit him." [10] The DA asked you a question, [11] the next question, Mr. Mooney. "Do you know [12] what happened that caused John McLaughlin to [13] go behind the bar and get that baseball bat [14] and hit Seamus?" [15] Answer: "No, I do not." [16] "Did you hear what they were [17] talking about?" [18] "No, I didn't." [19] Question: "Where was the [20] baseball bat?" [21] Answer: "Behind the bar in the [22] corner, I believe." [23] Question: "What kind of bat [24] was it?" [25] Answer: "It was an aluminum Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 215 [1] Raymond Mooney - redirect [2] bat." [3] Question: "After John [4] McLaughlin went and got the bat, what did he [5] do with it?" [6] Answer: "He walked behind the [7] bar and started hitting Seamus." [8] Question: "How many times did [9] you see him hit him?" [10] Answer: "Maybe six." [11] Question: "And how was he [12] swinging the bat?" [13] Answer: "Like that." [14] And the record reflects that [15] you're indicating for the record with a two- [16] handed grip over the shoulder and above the [17] head and then downward. [18] Answer: "Yes." [19] Question: "And you saw that." [20] Answer: "Yeah. Then I went. [21] I got told to go upstairs and I went [22] upstairs." [23] Question: "Who said go [24] upstairs?" [25] Answer: "John." Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 216 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 54 (page 213 - 216) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - redirect [2] Do you remember testifying to [3] that, Mr. Mooney, before a judge? [4] A. Yes. [5] Q. And was that the truth? [6] A. Yes. [7] Q. Okay. You also were questioned [8] later on in that same hearing back in August. [9] Counsel, I'm going to refer to, question, "You [10] were asked about the gun, whether you saw a [11] gun." At any point during the incident I'm [12] talking about, Mr. Mooney. Did you see when [13] Seamus was beaten ever see a gun, just so it's [14] clear? [15] A. No. [16] Q. When is the first time that you [17] ever see a gun in that bar? [18] A. When, when Rick. The first [19] time now when? What date? [20] Q. Well, you tell me. After [21] Seamus is beat, you indicated -- [22] A. No. I said Rick walked in the [23] bar and he, you know. I don't know if I had a [24] coffee that day or not. I think he was shook [25] up too, you know. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 217 [1] Raymond Mooney - redirect [2] Q. Okay. [3] A. And there was a gun or what [4] looked piled, but it had a towel on it. He [5] pointed to it. Rich has a hard time speaking [6] sometimes. [7] Q. Okay. [8] A. And he pointed to me. He went, [9] "Moon." And I picked it up and I put it [10] underneath the, underneath the shelf up on top [11] of the beer box. [12] Q. Okay. Fair enough. And at the [13] hearing you were questioned about that by then [14] counsel, by then counsel for Mr. McLaughlin, [15] Pete Bowers. He asked you these questions: [16] "So the police, did they recover a gun? You [17] said you didn't know anything about a gun." [18] Answer: "I didn't see no gun." [19] Question: "And you don't know [20] whether Seamus had a gun, do you?" [21] "No." [22] Question: "Did you ever see a [23] gun in Seamus's hands?" [24] "No." [25] "Did you ever see Seamus Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 218 [1] Raymond Mooney - redirect [2] reaching down like he might have a gun?" [3] Answer: "No." [4] Is that what you testified to, [5] Mr. Mooney? [6] A. If you said I did, I did. [7] Q. Well, and is it -- [8] A. Yes. [9] Q. More important than that, is it [10] the truth? [11] A. Yes. [12] Q. Question: "You've told us you [13] don't know whether there was any pushing or [14] shoving immediately before the incident." [15] Your answer was, "There was [16] none. I didn't see no pushing and shoving." [17] Do you remember saying that? [18] A. Yes. [19] Q. You didn't see any pushing and [20] shoving between McLaughlin and Seamus, did [21] you? [22] A. No. [23] Q. Okay. And then you were just [24] asked a final few questions by Mr. Gilson, the [25] then District Attorney. "Just a few more Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 219 [1] Raymond Mooney - redirect [2] questions. During the entire incident that [3] night, before you left the bar the next [4] morning, which would have been Thursday [5] afternoon, during the entire time did John [6] McLaughlin ever tell you that Seamus had a gun [7] on him, pulled a gun on him or threatened him [8] with a gun?" [9] Answer: "No. John McLaughlin [10] said to me that he, you know, wanted me to say [11] he had a gun." [12] "All right. When did he tell [13] you that he wanted you to say that?" [14] Answer: "That was Sunday after [15] everything happened." [16] Question: "So this was several [17] days after it happened?" [18] Answer: "Yes." [19] Question: "But on the night [20] that it happened, while it was happening, [21] right after it happened, at any time before [22] you left the bar, did McLaughlin ever say to [23] you, Ray, he had a gun, he pulled a gun, he [24] reached for a gun or I thought he had a gun or [25] anything like that?" Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 220 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 55 (page 217 - 220) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - redirect [2] Answer: "No." [3] And then do you remember those [4] questions and answers, sir? [5] A. Yes. [6] Q. Was it the truth? [7] A. Yes. [8] Q. The final question by [9] Mr. Bowers. "Is that what he asked you?" [10] Page 111, line twenty-three. [11] Answer: "He asked me, yeah. [12] Seamus had a gun." [13] Question: "Thank you." [14] By Mr. Gilson, question: "So [15] he, so he meaning McLaughlin asked you to lie [16] for him?" [17] Answer: "Yes." [18] Do you remember telling the [19] judge on that date that John McLaughlin wanted [20] you to tell the judge that Seamus had a gun? [21] A. I don't remember telling the [22] judge. [23] Q. Okay. But if it's here and it [24] says John McLaughlin asked you to lie -- [25] A. Whatever I said to who was the, Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 221 [1] Raymond Mooney - redirect [2] Mr. Bowers. [3] Q. Right. [4] A. I answered him truthfully to [5] the best I could. [6] Q. Mr. Mooney, I know you've told [7] us that John McLaughlin asked you or told you [8] to tell the police that Seamus had a gun, [9] correct? [10] A. Yes. [11] Q. Okay. Now, I'm not going to go [12] over these statements, but counsel went over [13] them and Mr. McMonagle asked you. And [14] counsel, I'm going to refer to the first [15] statement. I'll read it to you. C-9C, [16] counsel. Mr. McMonagle, page four of five. [17] Mr. Mooney, this is the first statement you [18] gave to the defense investigator. Question. [19] It's towards the very end, the last series of [20] questions. This is when you're speaking to [21] Wayne Bowie for the first time. Question: [22] "On the night of January second and the [23] morning of January third, did you ever see [24] John McLaughlin hit Seamus? [25] Answer: "No." Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 222 [1] Raymond Mooney - redirect [2] "Did you see John or Seamus [3] arguing?" [4] "No." [5] A. Could I stop you for one [6] minute. [7] Q. Yes, sir. [8] A. I don't think that question was [9] did I ever see, if I saw John hit him. But it [10] said did I see John kill Seamus. [11] Q. Okay. [12] A. I said no because I didn't [13] know. [14] Q. Okay. You just saw him hit [15] him. [16] A. Yeah. I saw him hit him, yeah. [17] Q. So you're just saying I don't [18] know whether he died, I just know he hit him. [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. But the question that was read [21] by Mr. McMonagle from Mr. Bowie's statement, [22] the investigator that was then working not for [23] Mr. McMonagle but for Mr. Bowers, it says, "On [24] the night of January second and the morning of [25] the third, did you ever see John McLaughlin Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 223 [1] Raymond Mooney - redirect [2] hit Seamus O'Neill?" And it says, "No." Is [3] that truthful? [4] A. No. [5] Q. Okay. Why did you say it, Mr. [6] Mooney? Why did you tell Mr. Bowie that? Why [7] did you sign this statement? [8] A. Because I just tried to explain [9] to you. [10] Q. Okay. And Mr. Mooney, when we [11] get into a -- by the way, Mr. Mooney, just so [12] it's clear, counsel went over the statements. [13] I want to refer to briefly, Judge, before I [14] finish, Commonwealth Exhibit C-13. Counsel, [15] it's the letter. Mr. McMonagle? [16] MR. CONROY: May I approach, [17] Your Honor? [18] THE COURT: Sure. [19] MR. CONROY: And I'm going to [20] ask leading questions, Mr. McMonagle, to [21] avoid. I just want to ask a couple of leading [22] questions. [23] BY MR. CONROY: [24] Q. This is the letter that was [25] written. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 224 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 56 (page 221 - 224) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - redirect [2] A. Okay. [3] Q. Other than this letter that's [4] written four years after Seamus O'Neill is [5] dead -- it's dated November twenty-second, [6] 2011 -- other than this one letter written [7] four years after, almost four years after [8] Seamus's death and about two months before [9] this trial, did you ever write to John [10] McLaughlin in jail? [11] A. What? [12] Q. Other than this letter. [13] A. No. No. [14] Q. So in the four years since [15] Seamus's death you've never written to John [16] McLaughlin, correct? [17] A. Yes. [18] Q. Yes meaning you never wrote to [19] him? [20] A. I never wrote to him. [21] Q. Is this the only letter you've [22] ever written to him? [23] A. Yes. [24] Q. And it's written. You would [25] agree the time stamp, the postal stamping Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 225 [1] Raymond Mooney - redirect [2] indicates twenty-two November 2011, correct? [3] A. Yes. [4] MR.CONROY: May I approach, [5] Your Honor? [6] THE COURT: Yes. [7] BY MR. CONROY: [8] Q. Two months before trial, [9] correct? [10] A. Yes. [11] Q. And just so it's clear, what [12] made you write this letter? How? What? How [13] did this letter come about? [14] A. Wayne Bowie asked me to write [15] John a letter. [16] Q. Okay. And he wanted you to [17] write a letter why? [18] A. To help John. [19] Q. And did you do it? [20] A. I don't know if the letter [21] helped him or not. [22] Q. Mr. Mooney, my question to you [23] is this. The words on this page came from [24] where? [25] A. From Wayne Bowie. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 226 [1] Raymond Mooney - redirect [2] Q. Did you know the address where [3] to mail this? [4] A. No. [5] Q. Where did you get the address? [6] A. Wayne Bowie. [7] Q. And, Mr. Mooney, there's other [8] very specific, very specific identifying [9] information on the cover of this letter. Do [10] you see this? [11] A. Yes. [12] Q. Just listen to my question. Do [13] you see this identifying information? [14] A. Yes. [15] Q. Very specific. [16] A. Yes. [17] Q. Did you know those specific [18] letters and numbers? [19] A. No. [20] Q. Where did you get it from? [21] A. Wayne Bowie. [22] Q. And you wrote it because he [23] said it would help John, right? [24] A. Yes. [25] Q. Mr. McLaughlin, the second Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 227 [1] Raymond Mooney - redirect [2] statement you gave to Mr. Bowie. Counsel, [3] it's Commonwealth Exhibit C-9D, Mr. McMonagle. [4] It's the second in the trifecta of Detective [5] Bowie statements, August seventh, 2010. I [6] just want to highlight some of this briefly [7] before I wrap it up. [8] You say in the statement to [9] Mr. Bowie, "As I closed the beer box door and [10] turned to my right, Seamus jumped up and I saw [11] the black handle of a gun in his waistband." [12] "Were you scared when you saw [13] the gun?" [14] Answer: "Yes." [15] "Were you scared when Seamus [16] jumped up?" [17] "Yes." [18] "Did you see Seamus reach for [19] his waistband in the area of the gun?" [20] "Yes." [21] "Were you afraid that Seamus [22] was going to use the gun?" [23] "I was scared shitless." [24] Do you remember telling that to [25] Wayne Bowie? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 228 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 57 (page 225 - 228) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - redirect [2] A. I said he jumped up and put his [3] hand by his waist. Now, the gun, that part [4] there, like I'm saying, could have got added [5] there or what. [6] Q. My question -- [7] A. I said it could have been, you [8] know, he picked, you know, did his, did his [9] belt or he had a cell phone on him. Yeah. [10] Q. Okay. Mr. McMonagle asked -- [11] MR. McMONAGLE: Could we just [12] let him answer the question? [13] THE COURT: Is that your [14] answer, sir, or do you have more to say? [15] THE WITNESS: No, that's it. [16] That's it, Your Honor. [17] MR. CONROY: Fair enough. I [18] apologize, Mr. Mooney. [19] BY MR. CONROY: [20] Q. Mr. Mooney, my question to you [21] was Mr. McMonagle asked you if I read that [22] correctly. My question to you is the next [23] one. Mr. Mooney, did you ever see Seamus pull [24] out a gun? [25] A. No. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 229 [1] Raymond Mooney - redirect [2] Q. Any doubt in your mind? [3] A. No. [4] Q. And the last of the trifecta, [5] C-9E. When you tell Mr. Bowie in a statement [6] dated October twenty-second, '10, "I need to [7] get this off my chest because it's been [8] bothering me since it happened. I was in [9] McWitey's Bar when Seamus came in. He came to [10] the end of the bar where I was sitting and [11] drinking. When Seamus became loud and [12] threatened to kill me, Goober left the bar and [13] went into the bathroom. When Seamus reached [14] for a gun in his waistband, I was standing by [15] the opening at the end of the bar and remember [16] striking him, but I must have blanked out. I [17] don't remember what happened next." [18] Is that what happened? [19] A. No. [20] Q. Well, I read that correctly, [21] right? [22] A. Yes. [23] Q. That's the answer. But now the [24] next question is, is that the truth? [25] A. That is not the truth written. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 230 [1] Raymond Mooney - redirect [2] Q. Did Mr. Bowie say anything [3] about this helping John when he gave, when you [4] gave this statement? Did he mention to you [5] anything about just give this because this [6] will help John? Did he say anything about [7] that, Mr. Mooney? [8] A. Yes. But I also said that my [9] conscience was bothering me about a gun. I [10] did see a gun because Rick pointed to it, you [11] know. [12] Q. Mr. Mooney, I don't have any [13] doubt about that. You've told us that [14] repeatedly. But my question to you is this: [15] When you give this statement saying that [16] Seamus was pulling a gun, not about a gun seen [17] later, pulling a gun, when you give that to [18] Mr. Bowie, he told you give this statement, it [19] will help John. Didn't he say that to you? [20] A. Yes. [21] Q. And you want to try to help [22] John, don't you? [23] A. Yes. [24] Q. He was a longtime friend. [25] A. Yes. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 231 [1] Raymond Mooney - recross [2] Q. But despite that, Mr. Mooney, [3] you testified that you would tell the truth, [4] correct? [5] A. Yes. [6] Q. Mr. Mooney, who hit Seamus [7] O'Neill five or six times with the bat? [8] A. John McLaughlin. [9] MR. CONROY: Thank you. [10] THE COURT: Anything further? [11] Any recross? [12] MR. McMONAGLE: Yes. [13] THE COURT: Yes. [14] RECROSS EXAMINATION [15] BY MR. McMONAGLE: [16] Q. Mr. Mooney, you just said that [17] you would tell the truth, correct? [18] A. Yes. [19] Q. And you just said that [20] Mr. Bowie interviewed you several times, [21] correct? [22] A. Yes. [23] Q. And you said what's on the [24] paper, right? Right? [25] A. Not -- there's a discretion on Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 232 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 58 (page 229 - 232) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Raymond Mooney - recross [2] what he had written down. [3] Q. Discretion. You mean a [4] discrepancy? [5] A. Yes. [6] Q. Yeah. Today, you told the jury [7] under oath that you saw Mr. O'Neill reach, [8] right? [9] A. Yes. [10] Q. In fact, you said it yesterday, [11] reach. [12] A. Yes. [13] Q. And you said yesterday you [14] thought he was reaching for something. You [15] saw something there. It could have been a [16] phone, could have been a gun. You said that [17] to the jury yesterday, right? [18] A. Yes. [19] Q. That's not Mr. Bowie's [20] imagination. That's not Mr. Bowie's words. [21] That's your words, right? He reached. It [22] looked like something. It could have been a [23] phone. It could have been a gun. You said [24] that to the jury, right? [25] A. Yes. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 233 [1] [2] Q. Is that the truth? [3] A. Yes. [4] MR. McMONAGLE: I'm through. [5] THE COURT: Anything, Mr. [6] DiFabio? [7] MR. DiFABIO: No, Your Honor. [8] THE COURT: Anything further? [9] REDIRECT EXAMINATION [10] BY MR. CONROY: [11] Q. John McLaughlin is still a [12] friend of yours and you still want to help [13] him, don't you, Mr. Mooney? [14] A. Yes. [15] MR. CONROY: Thank you. [16] Nothing further. [17] THE COURT: Thank you. You're [18] excused, sir. Do not discuss your testimony. [19] You're done. [20] THE WITNESS: Okay. Thank you. [21] (Witness excused.) [22] MR. CONROY: Can we maybe take [23] a quick break and I'll locate a short witness? [24] THE COURT: We'll take five [25] minutes. We'll let Mr. Mooney get on his way Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 234 [1] [2] and we'll take the jury out for five minutes. [3] If we get another short witness in, we can try [4] to do it, folks, so we can move the case along [5] for you. [6] COURT CRIER: Remain seated as [7] the jury exits the courtroom. Jurors? [8] (Jury excused.) [9] THE COURT: Okay. We'll take [10] five minutes. [11] (A brief recess was taken.) [12] COURT CRIER: All remain seated [13] as the jury enters the courtroom, please. [14] Jurors? [15] (Jury summoned.) [16] THE COURT: Very well. The [17] jury is back in the room. Next witness, [18] please? [19] MR. CONROY: Your Honor, the [20] Commonwealth would call Mr. Gus Bauman. [21] THE COURT: Very well. Call [22] Mr. Bauman. [23] COURT CRIER: Sir, remain [24] standing. State your full name for the record [25] and spell it for the Court. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 235 [1] Gus Bauman - direct [2] THE WITNESS: Name is Gus [3] Bauman. B-A-U-M-A-N. [4] GUS BAUMAN, after having been [5] duly sworn, was examined and testified as [6] follows. . . [7] COURT CRIER: You may be [8] seated. [9] THE COURT: Keep your voice up, [10] Mr. Bauman. We're making a record here. You [11] may proceed, Mr. Conroy. [12] MR. CONROY: Thank you, Your [13] Honor. [14] DIRECT EXAMINATION [15] BY MR. CONROY: [16] Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Bauman. [17] A. How are you doing? [18] Q. Mr. Bauman, I want to direct [19] your attention to January of 2008. Mr. [20] Bauman, do you have any connection with the [21] intersection of Mercer and Venango Streets in [22] the City and County of Philadelphia? [23] A. Yes, I do. [24] Q. And what is that, Mr. Bauman? [25] A. I own a business on the Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 236 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 59 (page 233 - 236) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Gus Bauman - direct [2] southeast corner. [3] Q. How long have you had that [4] business? [5] A. Between myself and my family, [6] sixty-seven years. [7] THE COURT: Whoa. A long time. [8] BY MR. CONROY: [9] Q. Probably too long sometimes, [10] right? [11] A. No. It's all right. [12] Q. What kind of business is it, [13] Mr. Bauman? [14] A. It's a deli. It used to be an [15] old mom-and-pop store. We turned it into a [16] deli. [17] Q. I want to direct your [18] attention. By the way, across the street from [19] you or in that intersection of Mercer and [20] Venango, and you would agree with me it's up [21] in the Port Richmond section of Philadelphia? [22] A. Correct. [23] Q. In that intersection there, [24] Mercer and Venango, your store, is it right on [25] the corner or is it in the middle of the Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 237 [1] Gus Bauman - direct [2] block? [3] A. It's right on the corner. [4] Q. The name of the business? [5] A. Hecker's. [6] Q. Mr. Bauman, I want to ask you. [7] Is there any other businesses, any other [8] establishments across the street or in that [9] intersection of Mercer and Venango? [10] A. A bar on the northeast corner. [11] Q. And back in January of '08, do [12] you recall, do you recall the name of the bar? [13] A. McWhitey's. [14] Q. Did you know the individual [15] that was, that ran the bar, the owner slash or [16] who ran it? [17] A. Yes, I did. [18] Q. And what was his name? [19] A. John McLaughlin. [20] Q. Do you see Mr. McLaughlin in [21] the courtroom today? [22] A. Yeah. He's right there. [23] Q. Indicating for the record the [24] defendant John McLaughlin seated at defense [25] counsel table. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 238 [1] Gus Bauman - direct [2] THE COURT: So indicated. [3] BY MR. CONROY: [4] Q. Mr. Bauman, I want to direct [5] your attention. By the way, in terms of the [6] bar itself, I want to direct your attention to [7] that morning. Actually, it's a Thursday [8] morning, January third. That particular [9] morning or actually even going into the night [10] before, that Wednesday night, do you recall [11] any vehicles January second? [12] A. January second. Well, vehicles [13] come and go. They park in front of my place. [14] I'm open till eleven o'clock at night. But [15] when I closed at eleven o'clock at night, I [16] didn't remember seeing a vehicle. [17] Q. That Wednesday night? [18] A. That Wednesday night. [19] Q. What time do you close your [20] store? [21] A. Eleven o'clock. [22] Q. Were there any vehicles [23] illegally parked in front of your store? [24] A. Not at eleven o'clock. [25] Q. What time do you open your Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 239 [1] Gus Bauman - direct [2] store the following day? [3] A. Seven o'clock in the morning. [4] Q. When you woke up that following [5] morning, seven o'clock in the morning, you go [6] down to your store. Was there a vehicle [7] there? [8] A. Yes, there was. [9] Q. What kind of vehicle was it? [10] A. It was a, I want to say it was [11] kind of like a compact. I'm not really good [12] with it. But I don't know. Maybe it's a, a [13] small Chevy, Ford. I don't know. [14] Q. If I showed you a picture, [15] would you recognize it? [16] A. Probably. [17] Q. Mr. Bauman, do you recall, I [18] know you opened your store at seven o'clock. [19] I mean, do you go down into the store and [20] start doing things prior to opening? [21] A. I'm in the store. I'm actually [22] downstairs probably by, I want to say quarter [23] after six. I'm actually in the store [24] somewhere between 6:20, twenty of seven. I [25] start getting things ready because I got to Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 240 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 60 (page 237 - 240) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Gus Bauman - direct [2] have that door open by seven o'clock. [3] Q. Like what things typically are [4] you getting ready? [5] A. Well, I get the coffee ready, [6] turn the grill on. We sell a lot of a [7] sandwiches, breakfast sandwiches. [8] Q. By the way, from your position [9] over there in your store at Hecker's, are you [10] able to see across the street in the vicinity [11] of McWhitey's Bar? [12] A. Absolutely. [13] Q. That particular morning, did [14] you notice anything? Did you notice any [15] activity at the bar that early morning quarter [16] after six, 6:30? Anything catch your eye? [17] A. Well, the only thing that [18] really caught my eye was when I came into the [19] store, like I said, somewhere between 6:30 and [20] twenty of seven, I noticed Mr. McLaughlin's [21] car. It was parked on the angle of Mercer and [22] Venango right at the inlet there, and I [23] thought that was kind of unusual because there [24] was plenty of parking all on both sides of [25] Mercer Street. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 241 [1] Gus Bauman - direct [2] Q. So that caught your attention. [3] A. Yeah. I mean, why would you [4] park a car like that when you got all the room [5] in the world to park? [6] Q. What kind of vehicle was it, [7] Mr. Bauman? [8] A. It's a Navigator. I believe [9] it's a black Navigator. [10] Q. Mr. Bauman, at any point in [11] time did that vehicle move? [12] A. Yes. [13] Q. Can you tell the ladies and [14] gentlemen of the jury? Again, I know you're [15] probably not staring at your watch. But can [16] you tell us if that Navigator, approximately [17] what time that Navigator moved and where did [18] it go? [19] A. Well, when I first noticed it, [20] like I said, it was on the corner there. And [21] one of the guys came out of the bar, got into [22] the Navigator, pulled it up Mercer Street [23] maybe, I don't know, ten, fifteen feet past [24] the bar, because there was a driveway there, [25] pulled it into the driveway, backed it up and Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 242 [1] Gus Bauman - direct [2] put it near the back door of the bar. It sat [3] there, I don't know, maybe twenty minutes, [4] half hour. [5] Q. The person that drove the car [6] there, did you know who that person was? Did [7] you recognize him? [8] A. Sammy. [9] Q. Sammy who? [10] A. Sammy. I just knew him as [11] Sammy. [12] Q. Do you see him in the courtroom [13] this afternoon? [14] A. Yeah, right there. [15] Q. Indicating for the record the [16] witness has identified, Mr. Bauman has [17] identified defendant Sammy Toy. [18] THE COURT: So indicated. [19] BY MR. CONROY: [20] Q. Prior to that Thursday morning, [21] that January third morning, the person that [22] you knew as Sammy, how did you know him? [23] A. Just from coming in my place. [24] I, you know, I didn't know him. He wasn't [25] from the neighborhood or nothing. He just Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 243 [1] Gus Bauman - direct [2] worked at the bar as far as I knew. [3] Q. When you saw, by the way, he [4] was the one that actually moved John [5] McLaughlin's Navigator? [6] A. Yes, uh-huh. [7] Q. Tell us what happens. Mr. Toy [8] backs the vehicle up towards I think you [9] indicated the back door of the bar? [10] A. Uh-huh. [11] Q. On Mercer Street? [12] A. Yeah. Well, he drove the [13] vehicle up, turned it around and had it like [14] kind of facing Venango Street, but it was [15] parked at the back door. And I guess, I don't [16] know, maybe fifteen, twenty minutes might have [17] went by. He got out of it, moved it again and [18] then he pulled it up near the cellar doors. [19] By then, I was just getting ready to open at [20] seven o'clock. I started having a lot of kids [21] in there. [22] Q. So when you say the cellar [23] doors, by the way, how much time after Sammy [24] Toy comes out? By the way, did you see where [25] Sammy Toy came from when he, to go into the Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 244 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 61 (page 241 - 244) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Gus Bauman - direct [2] vehicle? [3] A. He came out of the front door [4] of the bar. [5] Q. By the way, is there usually [6] activity in the bar that early in the morning, [7] I mean, based on? [8] A. I want to say no. [9] Q. Okay. When he gets into the [10] vehicle and moves it to the back and then I [11] think you indicated he turned around, he's [12] actually facing your store now with the [13] Navigator? [14] A. Yes. [15] Q. And do you recall about what [16] time that was? [17] A. Well, like I said, I open up at [18] seven o'clock, and right at seven o'clock I [19] have anywheres from six to ten high school [20] girls just about every morning. So I want to [21] say it probably was somewhere either right [22] before seven or right after seven. [23] Q. Now, this is the first time you [24] see him move the truck, correct? I'm talking [25] about the first time you see him move the Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 245 [1] Gus Bauman - direct [2] truck. [3] A. Yeah. [4] Q. And after he moves the truck [5] where does he go? [6] A. You mean after it was parked? [7] Q. Yeah. [8] A. In the front? [9] Q. Yeah. [10] A. I want to say when it was [11] parked in the front, he backed it off, then [12] put it back probably maybe a half hour or so. [13] Then he drove away. [14] Q. Okay. How many times did you [15] see him move the vehicle? [16] A. One, two, three times. [17] Q. The first time? [18] A. The first time was by the curb. [19] The second time was by the back door. The [20] third time was by the front door. [21] Q. Okay. And you indicated that [22] there's grates on the ground? [23] A. Yeah. It's Bilco doors, cellar [24] doors. [25] Q. And how close to the Bilco Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 246 [1] Gus Bauman - direct [2] doors did he park? [3] A. It's a small pavement there. I [4] mean, was he on top of them? No. Was he [5] right next to them? Probably. [6] Q. And he was on the pavement? [7] A. Yeah. [8] Q. Okay. And after he parked near [9] the Bilco doors, did he exit McLaughlin's [10] vehicle? [11] A. Yeah. [12] Q. Where did she go? [13] A. Back in the bar. [14] Q. How much time before he then [15] left the bar and came out and moved the truck? [16] A. Well, it's hard to say because [17] I started to get busy at that point. I'm [18] guessing. [19] Q. Okay. Let me ask you a [20] question, Mr. Bauman. You said that activity [21] begins in that area, that intersection of [22] Venango and Mercer, correct? [23] A. Uh-huh. [24] Q. You have to answer yes or no [25] for the record. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 247 [1] Gus Bauman - direct [2] A. Yes. [3] Q. Mr. Bauman, can you describe, [4] one, what time the intersection begins to get [5] busy and, two, what kind of activity you're [6] talking about? [7] A. Well, when I say activity, you [8] got all your Little Flower girls that are [9] starting high school, so they're catching [10] their school buses. They usually get a bus [11] somewhere around ten after seven. They're [12] usually in my place by seven o'clock, [13] sometimes they're even standing outside a [14] couple minutes to seven before I even open up [15] the door. So activity starts right around [16] seven o'clock. [17] Q. So that the intersection begins [18] to get bustling to some extent. [19] A. Well, plus you got the grade [20] school right up the street. They're starting [21] to go to school at 7:30. [22] Q. Okay. And after, Sammy Toy [23] eventually comes out after how many? You said [24] about thirty minutes and then moves the truck? [25] A. Probably. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 248 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 62 (page 245 - 248) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Gus Bauman - direct [2] Q. Do you see? What direction [3] does he go in, do you recall? [4] A. He drove off the pavement and [5] he went west on Venango Street. [6] Q. That particular day, do you [7] recall whether or not the bar, McWhitey's [8] Tavern or Bar, opened that day? [9] A. No, it did not. [10] Q. Did you find that unusual? [11] A. Well, I didn't know that it [12] actually didn't open until probably later in [13] the day when I didn't see any lights or [14] anything on. So I didn't even pay attention [15] to it. [16] Q. Okay. But would that have been [17] unusual based on -- [18] A. Sure. [19] Q. Was it usually open during the [20] day? [21] A. Absolutely. [22] Q. I want to fast forward to now [23] the following morning, Friday morning, January [24] fourth, 2008. Tell us, Mr. Bauman. Walk us [25] through. You wake up and do your usual Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 249 [1] Gus Bauman - direct [2] protocol, get the coffee going about 6:30 and [3] move along? [4] A. Yeah. [5] Q. Tell us what happens. By the [6] way, the car that you saw when you woke up on [7] Thursday morning, is that still in front of [8] your shop? [9] A. Yes, it was. [10] Q. Tell us a little bit about what [11] you see and what you do. What happens? [12] A. Well, I really didn't pay too [13] much attention because a lot of people will [14] just leave a car parked there, and I saw a [15] gentleman go over to the car and he started [16] walking around the car. I didn't think [17] nothing of it. And next thing I know, that [18] gentleman came back with two other people. [19] They were walking around the car. And one [20] woman come in the store and she asked, she [21] asked did I see anybody get out of that car. [22] I said absolutely not, I said, but I'll tell [23] you, that car has been parked there for two [24] days. She said, how do you know? I said, [25] because my customers can't park. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 250 [1] Gus Bauman - direct [2] Q. Okay. As a result of that, by [3] the way, the people, did you know who the [4] people were that you were speaking with? Did [5] you recognize them? [6] A. Well, I recognized the woman. [7] Q. And who did you recognize her [8] to be? [9] A. Bonnie Graham. [10] Q. Okay. Bonnie Graham, also [11] known as Bonnie Stratton? [12] A. Yes. [13] Q. By the way, Mr. Bauman, you [14] indicated that you had seen the defendant. [15] You knew that he had a black Navigator, I [16] think is what you said. [17] A. Uh-huh. [18] Q. You'd seen him obviously [19] operate that on -- [20] A. Numerous occasions. [21] Q. Had you ever prior to that [22] Thursday morning that you've just described to [23] us when you saw Sammy Toy operating the [24] vehicle on three different occasions or four [25] different occasions moving it around, had you Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 251 [1] Gus Bauman - direct [2] ever seen him driving John McLaughlin's black [3] Navigator? [4] A. No, never. I didn't. [5] Q. Okay. [6] A. He could have, but that doesn't [7] mean I -- [8] Q. But you didn't see him? [9] A. I didn't see him. [10] Q. Okay. Let me ask you a [11] question. I'm going to ask you if you don't [12] mind to take a look at a couple of [13] photographs. But before I do that, do you [14] know a young fellow by the name, you may not [15] know his last name, but a fellow by the name [16] of Ricky? [17] A. Sure. [18] Q. And who is Ricky? [19] A. Ricky is, he's, I guess he's a [20] little slow. He's hard of hearing. He was, [21] pretty much jumped from to job to job around [22] the neighborhood working as a half-assed cook. [23] Q. Okay. [24] MR. McMONAGLE: What did he [25] say? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 252 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 63 (page 249 - 252) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Gus Bauman - direct [2] MR. CONROY: Half-assed cook. [3] MR. McMONAGLE: Thank you. [4] BY MR. CONROY: [5] Q. And he would, do you recall [6] whether or not he ever came into your shop [7] either on Thursday or Thursday morning? [8] A. He came in. He came in around, [9] I want to say probably about 10:30, maybe [10] eleven o'clock. He got a coffee. But Ricky [11] always does. [12] Q. Do you recall about how many [13] coffees he picked up? [14] A. No. One, two. [15] Q. Okay. And then back then, [16] after Ricky would pick up coffees, do you know [17] where he'd go? Where was he working then? [18] A. Yeah. He went across the [19] street. [20] Q. To where? [21] A. He went across the street to [22] McWhitey's. [23] Q. Do you know if he was employed [24] there? Do you know what he did for them? [25] A. I think he was pretty much like Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 253 [1] Gus Bauman - direct [2] a handyman, maybe going picking stuff up, [3] doing bulk stuff. [4] Q. Okay. Mr. Bauman, I'm going to [5] ask you with the Court's permission, Judge, to [6] show a couple of photos. [7] THE COURT: Sure. If you could [8] hit the lights. Thanks. [9] BY MR. CONROY: [10] Q. If I may, taking a look at, [11] this is Commonwealth Exhibit C-1-3 Your Honor. [12] Do you recognize that photograph? [13] A. Yes. [14] Q. And what are we looking at [15] there? [16] A. You're looking at the front of [17] McWhitey's Bar. [18] Q. Okay. And your store is right [19] across the street, correct? [20] A. Correct. [21] Q. And if we can, I'm going to ask [22] you to take a look now at Commonwealth Exhibit [23] C-1-81. Do you see that right there? What [24] are we looking at there? [25] A. You're looking at the front of Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 254 [1] Gus Bauman - direct [2] my store. [3] Q. Okay. That's the front of your [4] store right there, indicating on the left-hand [5] side? [6] A. Yes. [7] Q. And I think you told the ladies [8] and gentleman of the jury, Mr. Bauman, that [9] there was a vehicle that was illegally parked [10] or illegally parked when you woke up Thursday [11] morning and remained there for about a [12] twenty-four hour period? [13] A. Yeah. [14] MR. CONROY: Your Honor, may I [15] approach with the laser pointer? [16] THE COURT: Sure. [17] BY MR. CONROY: [18] Q. Mr. Bauman, here's a laser [19] pointer. If you would just push that red [20] button. [21] A. What red button? [22] Q. Are you able to work that? [23] A. Yeah. [24] Q. Do you see the vehicle? [25] A. Yeah, right there. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 255 [1] Gus Bauman - direct [2] Q. And your store is off to the [3] left. [4] A. Yep. [5] Q. Okay. And is that the vehicle [6] that you've been describing, telling the [7] ladies and gentlemen of the jury about? [8] A. Yes. [9] Q. If we can, Judge, if we can go [10] back to that one photograph that I mentioned a [11] moment ago. It's C-1-3. Mr. Bauman, I think [12] you indicated to the ladies and gentlemen of [13] the jury that when you first noticed the black [14] Navigator that you would observe John [15] McLaughlin driving, where was it parked? [16] A. Right where this car is right [17] now. Right there. [18] Q. Was it parked in a similar [19] fashion? [20] A. Yep. [21] Q. Right on the corner, correct? [22] A. Yep. [23] Q. And I think that you noticed [24] that because of the way it was parked, [25] correct? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 256 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 64 (page 253 - 256) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Gus Bauman - direct [2] A. Yes. [3] Q. Back then, were there other [4] spots both along the bar of Venango and Mercer [5] that McLaughlin's vehicle could have pulled [6] into? [7] A. Well, the whole side of Venango [8] or Mercer Street on this side was all open. [9] So was the other side of Mercer Street. [10] Q. Okay. Tell us. I think you [11] told us the first time that Mr. Toy exited the [12] bar shortly around 6:30ish and got into the [13] Navigator, correct? [14] A. Uh-huh. [15] Q. And where was it that he pulled [16] and parked John McLaughlin's vehicle? [17] A. This God-damned thing. Right [18] there. [19] Q. And that's towards the back [20] doors of the bar? [21] A. Yep, uh-huh. [22] Q. And was the vehicle facing, in [23] which direction was the vehicle facing? [24] A. Facing southbound toward my [25] store. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 257 [1] Gus Bauman - direct [2] Q. So the car would be pointed [3] towards us. [4] A. Yes. [5] Q. Okay. I think you say he went [6] back into the bar, came back out and moved the [7] vehicle again? [8] A. Yes. [9] Q. Where did he move that vehicle [10] to, Mr. McLaughlin's Navigator? [11] A. Right there. [12] Q. And I think you're pointing [13] next to what are a pair of open Bilco doors? [14] A. Yep. [15] Q. Okay. And after he did that, I [16] think you indicated he went where? [17] A. He drove off the pavement right [18] there and made a right, went west on Venango [19] Street. [20] Q. But after he first parked at [21] the Bilco doors, did he go back into the bar? [22] A. Yes. [23] Q. How long did he stay in there? [24] A. I don't know. Like I said, I [25] was, that was at the point where I was, I was Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 258 [1] Gus Bauman - direct [2] open by then. [3] Q. Okay. And then eventually you [4] saw him pull off in that vehicle? [5] A. What was that? [6] Q. Did he eventually leave, pull [7] off the pavement? [8] A. Yeah, he left. [9] Q. And by the way, the Bilco doors [10] obviously in this photograph are in an open [11] position. Were they open or closed when you [12] saw him pull next to those Bilco doors? [13] A. No. They were closed. [14] Q. Fair enough. By the way, did [15] you ever happen to notice? There's a dump [16] truck that's observable in this photograph. [17] Do you see that that there, Mr. Bauman? [18] A. Yeah, I see it. [19] Q. Did you notice that dump truck [20] at all that day or? [21] A. What day are you talking? [22] Q. Friday morning. [23] A. Friday morning? No. That dump [24] truck wasn't there at seven o'clock Friday [25] morning. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 259 [1] Gus Bauman - direct [2] Q. Okay. It wasn't. It was not [3] there at seven o'clock. [4] A. No. [5] Q. Fair enough. [6] MR. CONROY: Judge, I think [7] that would be it. We can lift the lights. I [8] can look at my notes and we can wrap it up. [9] Give me one second, Your Honor. [10] THE COURT: Sure. [11] MR. CONROY: Court's [12] indulgence. [13] BY MR. CONROY: [14] Q. Mr. Bauman, at some point in [15] time, as a result of, you know, the family, [16] some people, Bonnie Graham coming up to you, [17] and she spoke to you briefly, correct? [18] A. (Witness nods.) [19] Q. Would that be yes? [20] A. Yeah. [21] Q. And she told you she was [22] looking for her fiance, correct? And she was [23] inquiring about that vehicle on the corner? [24] A. Yes, they were. [25] Q. And eventually at some point, Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 260 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 65 (page 257 - 260) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Gus Bauman - direct [2] Mr. Bauman, not that Friday the fourth but the [3] following day, January fifth, did you have a [4] chance to go down and speak with investigators [5] about your observations both that Thursday [6] morning and later on that Friday? [7] A. Well, they came in to see me. [8] Q. Okay. They came to see you. [9] A. Yes. [10] Q. And then eventually did you [11] have occasion to give them a statement, tell [12] them what you observed? [13] A. Yes. [14] MR. CONROY: Fair enough. Your [15] Honor, with the Court's permission, I'm going [16] to ask that this be marked the next [17] Commonwealth exhibit and I believe it would be [18] Commonwealth Exhibit C-15. Counsel, Mr. [19] Bauman's statement. Do you guys all have [20] copies? Mr. DiFabio? [21] MR. DiFABIO: Yes. [22] MR. CONROY: Fair enough. We [23] can mark this as the next exhibit, with the [24] Court's permission, Commonwealth Exhibit C-15. [25] Two copies of C-15. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 261 [1] Gus Bauman - direct [2] THE COURT: Very well. [3] MR. CONROY: If we could show [4] Mr. Bauman. [5] THE WITNESS: If he's going to [6] ask me to read it, I haven't got my glasses. [7] THE COURT: That's all right. [8] Don't worry about. He doesn't have his [9] reading glasses, counsel. [10] MR. CONROY: That's fair [11] enough. [12] COURT CRIER: C-15 is being [13] shown to the witness. [14] BY MR. CONROY: [15] Q. Mr. Bauman, I know you don't [16] have your reading glasses. [17] A. Amen to that. [18] Q. But I'll ask you. The [19] statement indicates that you gave a [20] typewritten statement on the fifth of January, [21] 2008, about 2:20 p.m., and you were [22] interviewed by two detectives, a Detective [23] James Pitts and also a detective Henry Glenn, [24] Hank Glenn. Do you recall that? [25] A. Yes. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 262 [1] Gus Bauman - cross [2] Q. And it was two, three, three [3] typed page statements with some attached [4] photographs where you identified both [5] Mr. McLaughlin and I believe Mr. Toy. Fair [6] enough? [7] A. Yes. [8] Q. And you got a chance to review [9] that, make any corrections and if it was [10] accurate you signed it. Correct, Mr. Bauman? [11] A. Yes. [12] MR. CONROY: Your Honor, I have [13] no further questions. [14] THE COURT: Very well. Mr. [15] DiFabio? Mr. McMonagle? [16] CROSS EXAMINATION [17] BY MR. McMONAGLE: [18] Q. Mr. Bauman, good afternoon, [19] sir. [20] A. How are you doing? [21] Q. Just a couple of questions. [22] You and I have not spoken before about this [23] case, correct? [24] A. Absolutely not. [25] Q. All right, sir. You indicated Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 263 [1] Gus Bauman - cross [2] that you had some familiarity with some of the [3] people that worked in the bar across the [4] street, correct? [5] A. Sure. [6] Q. One of them was the owner John, [7] who you've identified in court. [8] A. Yes. [9] Q. And in the statement that [10] Mr. Conroy had referred to, you told homicide [11] detectives that John usually appeared maybe [12] about three times a week at the bar, correct? [13] A. Probably. [14] Q. And you indicated that on the [15] date in question that we're talking about, you [16] made an observation about a black Navigator. [17] That's how you have described that vehicle, [18] correct? [19] A. Yes. [20] Q. And you're correct about that, [21] both black and Navigator, correct? [22] A. Yes. [23] Q. You did not see Mr. McLaughlin [24] on that particular day, correct? [25] A. Absolutely not. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 264 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 66 (page 261 - 264) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Gus Bauman - cross [2] Q. Do you know an individual named [3] Ray Mooney? [4] A. Sure. [5] Q. Did you see Mr. Mooney anywhere [6] in that general area on that particular day? [7] And I'm now talking about, you know, the day [8] where you saw the vehicle pull up and pull [9] off. [10] A. You're talking what day? [11] Thursday or Friday? [12] Q. That would be Thursday. [13] A. Thursday? I did not see Ray. [14] Q. Fair enough. And do you know [15] an individual named, nicknamed Goob who also [16] works there? [17] A. Yes. [18] Q. Did you see him anywhere in [19] that general area on that Thursday? [20] A. No, I did not. [21] Q. You didn't see him leave, [22] didn't see him come. No coming or going with [23] him, correct? [24] A. Nope. Absolutely not. [25] Q. And then lastly, you referred Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 265 [1] Gus Bauman - cross [2] to Mr. Parkhurst, the not-so-good cook. [3] A. Who? [4] Q. Is it Rich? [5] A. Oh, Ricky. Okay. All right. [6] Q. Ricky. Did you see him on [7] Thursday? [8] A. Yes. [9] Q. He actually came over and got [10] coffee? [11] A. He came in and got coffee. [12] Q. Went across the street with the [13] coffee and went into McWhitey's, correct? [14] A. Yes. [15] Q. All right. Did you see him [16] leave? [17] A. No. [18] Q. And didn't see Mooney leave. [19] A. No, I didn't. [20] Q. The following day, Friday, did [21] you see Mooney come? [22] A. Yes. Mooney came in. [23] Q. What time? [24] A. Well, like I said, the bar on [25] any given day, that bar would open up between Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 266 [1] Gus Bauman - cross [2] maybe 10:30, eleven o'clock. Ray stopped in [3] and got coffee. [4] Q. I don't mean to jump back, but [5] on Thursday -- and again I know you're busy, [6] you got your own work, you're doing your own [7] thing there -- you're not suggesting that [8] people didn't enter the bar and leave the bar [9] during various points of that day, are you? [10] That could have certainly happened without you [11] seeing it. Is that fair? [12] A. Run that by me? [13] Q. Yeah. Thursday, the day that [14] you saw the truck come and go early in the [15] morning. [16] A. Right. [17] Q. You're not suggesting that [18] people didn't enter the bar and leave the bar, [19] correct? [20] A. You mean -- [21] Q. Thursday. [22] A. You mean patrons? [23] Q. Anybody. [24] A. No. I saw Sammy going in and [25] out of the bar. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 267 [1] Gus Bauman - cross [2] Q. Well, that was in the morning. [3] A. Yes. [4] Q. But I mean as the day went on. [5] A. No. [6] Q. Seven o'clock, eight o'clock, [7] nine o'clock, ten o'clock. [8] A. No. [9] Q. On into the afternoon. [10] A. No. [11] Q. You didn't see anybody coming [12] or going. [13] A. No. [14] Q. What time did you close up for [15] the day on that date? [16] A. I close up at eleven o'clock [17] every night. [18] Q. Every night. [19] A. And I close up. [20] Q. Okay. Do you happen to know a [21] guy named Reilly at all? [22] A. Reilly. You mean the funeral [23] guy? [24] Q. Yeah. [25] A. Yeah. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 268 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 67 (page 265 - 268) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Gus Bauman - cross [2] Q. Did you see him come to the bar [3] on Friday? [4] A. On Friday? [5] Q. Yeah. [6] A. I seen him pull up in a car. [7] MR. McMONAGLE: Fair enough. [8] Thank you, sir. [9] THE COURT: Thank you. [10] Anything, Mr. DiFabio? [11] MR. DiFABIO: I do, Your Honor. [12] BY MR. DiFABIO: [13] Q. Mr. Bauman, you indicated that [14] the black SUV was sort of parked on the corner [15] there. [16] A. Correct. [17] Q. Did you see who parked it there [18] originally? [19] A. Absoluely not. [20] Q. How long was it parked there [21] before you saw Sam come out and get in to move [22] it? [23] A. Well, like I said, I come down [24] in the store somewhere between 6:30, or I was [25] actually in the store between 6:30, twenty of Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 269 [1] Gus Bauman - cross [2] seven. The car was there. [3] Q. And you don't know how long the [4] car was there. [5] A. No, I don't. [6] Q. And from when you saw it until [7] Sam came out to move it, approximately how [8] much time went by? [9] A. Well, I still wasn't open yet, [10] so it was before seven. So maybe, I don't [11] know, maybe quarter to seven, ten of seven, [12] somewhere around there. [13] Q. And Sam, you've indicated that [14] he comes in your store. He's been in your [15] store before, correct? [16] A. Yeah, he's been in there, sure. [17] Q. Buy coffee, sandwiches, [18] whatever it might be. [19] A. Whatever, yeah. Cigarettes. [20] Q. And you indicated that you know [21] that he works at the bar? [22] A. Well, I don't know if he works [23] there, but, you know, he does, I guess he does [24] some work for them, sure. [25] Q. You seem to have some knowledge Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 270 [1] Gus Bauman - cross [2] that he works there, does some work at least [3] over at the bar. [4] A. Yeah. I would see him picking [5] stuff up, bringing it in there. Not like he's [6] there eight hours on day or anything like [7] that. [8] Q. But you would see him [9] occasionally over there working. [10] A. Yeah. [11] Q. And on some occasions you'd see [12] him actually picking stuff up, bringing it [13] into the bar, correct? [14] A. Well, he might have picked [15] something up for them. He's taking it out of [16] the car or truck or whatever. Sure. [17] Q. So you've seen him make [18] deliveries, so to speak, or do stuff like [19] that? [20] A. Well, I don't know if he made [21] deliveries. [22] Q. Well, at least you saw him [23] carrying stuff in, delivering stuff there. [24] A. Yeah, sure. [25] Q. So it was not unusual to see Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 271 [1] Gus Bauman - cross [2] him over there? [3] A. No. [4] Q. And when you saw him come out [5] and get in that black SUV, you said he went [6] down and turned and pulled up onto the [7] sidewalk. [8] A. Pavement. [9] Q. I guess near the back door; is [10] that right? [11] A. Yeah. [12] Q. Was he driving erratically at [13] all that you saw? [14] A. No. [15] Q. Was he driving fast at all? [16] A. No. [17] Q. He sat in the vehicle for ten, [18] fifteen minutes, I think you indicated? [19] A. No. I didn't say that. He [20] didn't sit in the vehicle. He got out of the [21] vehicle and went back in the bar. [22] Q. I'm sorry. I misunderstood [23] that. So at that point when he first moves it [24] by the back door, he gets out and goes into [25] the bar. Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 272 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 68 (page 269 - 272) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Gus Bauman - cross [2] A. Uh-huh. [3] THE COURT: You have to yes or [4] no. [5] THE WITNESS: Yes. [6] BY MR. DiFABIO: [7] Q. Is that right? [8] A. Yes. [9] Q. Approximately how long was he [10] in the bar? [11] A. You're asking me to try to [12] narrow it down, and I'm opening up at seven [13] o'clock, you know. Ten, fifteen minutes. I [14] don't know. [15] Q. So by the time you open, you're [16] more preoccupied -- [17] A. Sure. [18] Q. -- with what's going on in your [19] store, correct? [20] A. I got ten, ten high school [21] girls in there trying to get out for school. [22] Q. I hear you. So at that point [23] Sam goes into the bar. Do you know what door [24] he went in? Did he go in the front door or [25] the back door? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 273 [1] Gus Bauman - cross [2] A. Are you talking the first time? [3] Q. The first time. [4] A. Back door. [5] Q. Back door. And he's in there [6] for some period of time. You see him come [7] back out again. You're not sure how much time [8] goes by. Yes? [9] A. Uh-huh. Yes. [10] THE COURT: You have to say yes [11] for the record. [12] THE WITNESS: Yes. [13] BY MR. DiFABIO: [14] Q. He comes out by himself? [15] A. Yes. [16] Q. He gets back into the vehicle [17] and now moves it, what, closer to the Bilco [18] doors? [19] A. Close to the front door, yeah. [20] Q. To where the Bilco doors are [21] near the front door. [22] Q. Correct. [23] Q. Does he stay in the vehicle at [24] that point for any period of time? [25] A. No. He just went back in the Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 274 [1] Gus Bauman - cross [2] bar. [3] Q. So he just moves it and goes [4] back into the bar; is that right? [5] A. Yes. [6] Q. And at that point did you see [7] him bring anything out and put it in the [8] vehicle? [9] A. Absolutely not. [10] Q. At any time did you see him put [11] anything in the vehicle? [12] A. Absolutely not. [13] Q. Did you see anybody come out [14] and talk to him while he was moving the [15] vehicle either the first or second time? [16] A. Absolutely not. [17] Q. He goes back into the bar. He [18] comes back out how much later? [19] A. Got in the car, made a right, [20] went west on Venango street. [21] Q. At any time prior to him [22] pulling off did you see the Bilco doors open? [23] A. Absolutely not. [24] Q. Now, you indicated you'd never [25] seen him drive the SUV before but he may have? Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 275 [1] Gus Bauman - cross [2] A. Sure, absolutely he could. [3] MR. DiFABIO: I have no further [4] questions, Your Honor. [5] MR. McMONAGLE: Judge, I [6] apologize. I just have one quick question for [7] Mr. Bauman. [8] THE COURT: Go ahead. [9] MR. McMONAGLE: Thank you for [10] your patience. [11] BY MR. McMONAGLE: [12] Q. It's true, isn't it, on [13] Thursday that an individual named Donny [14] actually entered the bar, was buzzed into the [15] bar for a period of time and came back out, [16] correct? [17] A. That was, that was probably [18] around 11:30, twelve o'clock. Donny went to [19] the door. He knocked on the door. I guess he [20] got buzzed in or somebody opened it. But [21] Donny might have only been there thirty [22] seconds, maybe a minute. [23] Q. Yeah. I'm looking at your [24] statement and I'm not quarreling with you [25] because you saw it. "They buzzed him in. I Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 276 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 69 (page 273 - 276) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ [1] Gus Bauman - redirect [2] saw him come back out a few minutes later. [3] And then Donny came in my store on Friday [4] morning to buy some coffee. He asked me if [5] there's anything wrong with the bar across the [6] street. He told me he went there on Thursday. [7] They told him that they were closed because [8] they were cleaning. I told him I didn't know, [9] but I did know that they didn't open at all on [10] Thursday." [11] A. That's correct. [12] Q. Does that got it? [13] A. Yes. [14] MR. McMONAGLE: Thanks, Mr. [15] Bauman. [16] THE COURT: Any redirect? [17] REDIRECT EXAMINATION [18] BY MR. CONROY: [19] Q. Just that he tried to go in, [20] the bar was closed and they were cleaning? [21] A. Well, the door is always [22] closed. [23] Q. But I mean they weren't open [24] that Thursday. [25] A. They could have been. I don't Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 277 [1] [2] know. But when five o'clock rolled around [3] them lights were out. They were closed. [4] MR. CONROY: Thank you. [5] Nothing further. [6] MR. McMONAGLE: Thank you, sir. [7] THE COURT: Thank you, Mr. [8] Bauman. Don't discuss your testimony. [9] (Witness excused.) [10] THE COURT: Jurors, that's [11] going to conclude the testimony for the day. [12] We'll see you tomorrow morning. Be here by [13] nine. We'll try to get started. Please [14] remain seated while the jury is getting ready [15] to leave. And we'll see you tomorrow morning [16] at nine o'clock. Thank you for being prompt. [17] Don't discuss the case or watch any, listen to [18] any media reports that may be involved with [19] the case. Thank you. [20] (Jury excused.) [21] THE COURT: All right. See [22] everybody tomorrow morning at 9:30. [23] - - - [24] (Trial recessed.) [25] - - - Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-8060 Page 278 [1] [2] C E R T I F I C A T I O N. [3] I HEREBY CERTIFY that the [4] proceedings and evidence are contained fully [5] and accurately in the stenographic notes taken [6] by me upon the foregoing matter on February [7] 22, 2012, and that this is a correct [8] transcript of same. [9] [10] [11] ----------------------- [12] Carl G. Sokolski. Official Court Reporter. [13] [14] [15] The foregoing certification of [16] this transcript does not apply to any [17] reproduction of the same by any means unless [18] under the direct control and/or supervision of [19] the certifying reporter. [20] - - - [21] [22] [23] [24] [25] Carl G. Sokolski Official Court Reporter (215) 683-806 Court Reporting System (Generated 2012/05/24 17:25:30) Page 279 51CR00104562008, 51CR00104572008 John Mclaughlin Trial (Jury) Volume 2 February 22, 2012 Carl Sokolski, O.C.R _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Court Reporting System 70 (page 277 - 279) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ____________________________________ ____________________________________ Lawyer's Notes ___________________________________________________________________