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efta-efta01103138DOJ Data Set 9OtherDS9 Document EFTA01103138
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IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE
FIFTEENTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT, IN AND FOR
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The above-styled cause came on for
PAIN BEACH COUNTY, FLORIDA
CASE NO. 50-2019-CA-041910-XXXX-MB-AG
2
hearing before the Honorable David Crow,
3
Circuit County Court Judge. at the Palm Beach
JEFFREY EPSTEIN,
Plaintiff/Countor-Detondant,
4
5
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County Courthouse, 205 North Dixie Highway,
West Palm Beach, Florida, on June 5, 2013,
commencing at 8:55 o'clock, p.m., as follows:
SCOTT ROTHSTEIN, individually, and
7
THE COURT: Good morning. This is
BRADLEY J. EUtaRDS, individually,
Defandants/Counter-Plaintiffs.
8
Epstein versus Rothstein. Actually, this is a
/
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status conference, as well as 1 think the
10
plaintiff filed a motion for clarification. I
TRANSCRIPT OF HEARING
Volume 1 of 1
11
read the motion. Do you want to add anything
12
else to the written motion?
Monday. June 5, 2013
TIME:
9:55 o'clock, a.e.
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MS. COLEMAN: No, Judge. I brought all
PLACE:
Palm Roach County Courthouse
14
the case law with me, but I attached your
205 North Dixie Highway
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401
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previous March 11th order, as well as the
BEFORE:
Honorable David Crew,
Circuit Court Judge
16
subsequent May 17th order, which was the
This cause came on to be hoard at the time
and place aforesaid. The following proceedings
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portion with which we took issue for the
wore reported by:
18
clarification.
Roger Watford, RPR/FPR
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THE COURT: lam not sure what the
U.S. Legal Support, Inc.
444 West Railroad Avenue
20
clarification is. Let me just say I thought
Saito 300
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the order was clear. Here's what it said.
Host Palm Beach, Florida 33401
(5811 835-0220
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It said very simply that I initially
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ordered you to produce a privilege log for
2 4
anything that was an non-constitutional
2 5
privilege and you do not have to provide a
2
4
1
APPEARANCES:
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privilege log which in and of itself may be
2
FOR THE PLAINTIFF/COUNTER-DEFENDANT:
2
incriminating. I understood that that was
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LAW OFFICES OF TONJA HADDAD COLEMAN.
PA.
3
your position.
4
315 Southeast 7th Street
4
!expected there would be a list of
Suite 301
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documents, which only was an objection based
5
Fort Lauderdale. Florida 33301
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on some non-constitutional privilege. What 1
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954-467-1223
BY: TONJA HADDAD COLEMAN. ESQ.
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got, what was provided, was essentially,
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although you did produce some documents,
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FOR THE DEFENDANT/COUNIER-PLAINTIFF:
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substantially all the documents were objected
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SEARCY. DENNEY. SCAROLA. BARNHART
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to not only on the Fifth Amendment privilege
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& SHIPLEY. PA.
2139 Palm Beach Lakes Boulevard
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but also on the basis of work product,
West Palm Beach, Florida 33409
12
attorney/client privilege and various other
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561-686-6300
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non-constitutional privileges.
BY: JACK SCAROLA. ESQ.
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We had a hearing on that, and I think I
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13
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asked counsel what do I do under these
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circumstances, and I don't recall the direct
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response, but it was not a lot of information
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1 got from you.
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So what Idid is I went back and 1 had
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some of our cracker-jack legal staff here do
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some independent research for me, and after
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reviewing that information I understand the
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law to be, as I set forth in my order, that a
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blanket objection on Fifth Amendment
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constitutional grounds is generally
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unacceptable, and the Courts have outlined a
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not there is a Fifth Amendment privilege,
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methodology by which the Court can test the
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like, for example, as I understand, the
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legitimacy of a Fifth Amendment claim when
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production of documents, the actual production
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it's basically a broad brush.
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itself must be testimonial, not the document
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And that methodology, as outlined in the
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nactessarily, and there are various different
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cases I cited, is that you ask for and obtain
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things I have to look at, and I recognize that
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an in camera privilege log, one that is not
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your client deserves, you know, the utmost
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provided to the other side, an in camera
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protection of his constitutional fights.
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privilege log directed to the Court alone that
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But the pragmatic reason I thought out
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outlines; one, the document, and provides me a
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loud in my order was that, what happens then.
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copy of the document; two, the privilege that
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I would be able to rule on your
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you are asserting, whether it be
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non-constitutional privileges, because at
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constitutional or non-constitutional; and the
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trial, very simply, what can happen is, you
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third, the basis that you feel, at least on
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can't ask somebody at trial an attorney/client
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constitutional grounds, that the production.
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privilege question, you can't ask them a work
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for example, is, in fact, testimonial and that
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product privilege question, so if the only
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you have a reasonable basis to believe that
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privilege remaining is, in fact, subject to
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producing the document, if it's an individual
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self-incrimination under the Fifth Amendment,
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or a corporation, would, in fact, incriminate
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that can be asked of the witness on the stand.
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the client.
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and he must assert his right at the time of
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As I understand the case law, the Court
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trial, and the jury can take whatever they
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is then to look at that in camera production,
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want to from that.
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nobody gets a copy of it, I take a look at it,
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That's the reason I set forth this
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I make a decision whether or not there is, in
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procedure. I'm sorry it wasn't clear. That's
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fact, a good faith basis for a constitutional
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the procedure I set up. But do you want me to
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objection on Fifth Amendment grounds.
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reconsider that theory or you just didn't
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Also I look at the documents to determine
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understand what I was doing? I'm not sure I
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whether or not the other privileges apply, the
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understand what you're asking.
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attorney/client privilege, work product
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MS. COLEMAN: I understood your order.
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privilege, accountant privilege, and, if I
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but it was in direct contravention with your
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can, I make rulings based upon that internal
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first order, and it --
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privilege log or in camera privilege log.
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THE COURT: Well, the initial order
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In fact, the case law goes forward from
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contemplated that there would be a subset of
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there and actually says, if I can't determine
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documents which were privileged based upon
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it from that, I can actually have an in camera
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non-constitutional grounds that I could look
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hearing where I can have you and your client
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at and make determinations on, but the reality
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appear and produce additional information to
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is that they apply to all of them, so there's
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me to allow me to make that decision as to
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no way I can look at the documents and make
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whether or not the documents in good faith are
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determinations on work product, attorney/
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constitutional.
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client, accountant privilege, lam not sure of
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No one is trying to abrogate your
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all the other privileges, without looking at
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client's Fifth Amendment privilege, but there
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the document, and that's what I asked and did
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has to be a method to test whether there's a
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research on. to determine how I look at a
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good-faith basis for it and to rule on the
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document that is claimed to be Fifth Amendment
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other privileges, and if I need a further
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privileges.
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hearing, I can have a further hearing. Mr.
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And the Federal Courts have set up a way
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Scarola is not a part of that. Then I make a
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to do that because, otherwise, people would
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ruling.
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just have a blanket assertion. In fact, there
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And the pragmatic and practical reason
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are two Supreme Court cases I think I cited,
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for that is not only to determine whether or
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one where they said. yeah, the other one said,
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no, and then there's a lower court setting
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criminal, respectfully, this Court cannot
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forth a procedure to do it.
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confer immunity upon my client from
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MS. COLEMAN: The problem with which we
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prosecution of that.
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are faced with, Judge, is this:
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In fact, I believe under the Judicial
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We did not assert a blanket Fifth
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Canons, you would be obligated to turn it
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Amendment privilege. It was very specific as
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over. And we proffered this, and I did cite
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to certain requests to which we argued. And
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case law in our motion for clarification in
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the interrogatories was the other portion of
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which we asserted that a proffer from the
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which we were requesting clarification of, but
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attorney is specific enough, and we have laid
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I will address that momentarily.
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it out many times.
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If the documents are provided to you,
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THE COURT: Which case is that?
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even for an in camera review, the Fifth
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MS. COLEMAN: The proffer from the
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Amendment privilege is waived. Respectfully,
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attorney would be sufficient, ironically, it's
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Judge, hypothetically speaking. if you saw
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in regards to Rothstein versus Albert, which
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something --
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is cited on page 6 of our motion. And, in
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THE COURT: You mean I got it totally
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addition, Judge, there are cases where, if you
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wrong?
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look at all the other cases to which we refer,
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MS. COLEMAN: Judge, I am not trying to
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it's a realistic fear of future prosecution.
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say you got it totally wrong, but the case law
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We have delineated in here, this is a
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research, my case law research and the
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unique situation, Mr. Edwards is actively
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research that the criminal defense attorneys
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seeking to overturn a non-prosecution
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with whom I'm working, states that --
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agreement between Mr. Epstein and the United
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THE COURT: What case are you relying
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States government. Part of the allegations by
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upon? Actually, I ran this by somebody who
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the United States government, and again of
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teaches this that's a colleague of mine,
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course I am not saying they are true, part of
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teaches federal prosecutors the issue. Which
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the allegations to which the government was
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case are you relying upon?
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referring included financial crimes.
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MS. COLEMAN: I am looking at Pisciotti
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As such, if any of this financial
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versus Stephens; 940 So.2d, 1217; Maged versus
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information is provided to this Court and/or
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Winter, 664 So.2d --
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if Mr. Edwards is successful in his quest to
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THE COURT: Where in your motion is it?
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do this, the docket is 427 entries long, it's
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MS. COLEMAN: I'm on page 3 of my motion
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an active case, Mr. Epstein runs the risk of
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for clarification.
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being prosecuted for these things should there
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THE COURT: Okay. And it's Maged versus
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be anything incriminating therein.
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Winter?
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The biggest issue with which we arc
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MS. COLEMAN: If you turn to page 3,
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faced, Judge, is if the mere act of producing
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Judge, that entire page, it discusses --
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these documents or identifying these document%
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THE COURT: It says the production in
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would waive his Fifth Amendment privilege.
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camera to the Court to determine the validity
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then he has lost that Fifth Amendment
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of the Fifth Amendment privilege waives the
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privilege.
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privilege?
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I do appreciate the concern with respect
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MS. COLEMAN: It does, Judge. If you
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to the other privileges, and I don't have an
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would allow me to finish, I will explain to
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answer, if I had been able to find one I would
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you the issue.
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have given it to you, but the risk we're faced
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THE COURT: Okay, I'm sorry.
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with today is that if he must lose all those
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MS. COLEMAN: Hypothetically speaking,
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other privileges, accountant/client,
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let's say the documents are given to you and
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attorney/client, work product, and only be
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you see something that in and of itself would
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permitted to assert the Fifth, then that's
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constitute a reason to assert the Fifth
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what he is going to have to do, because I
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Amendment, it could possibly be deemed
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don't see any way in which the client can
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produce the documents.
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situation under which my client can't turn
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Again, I don't read any of these cases to
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over any of these documents.
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state that an in camera review of a privilege
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So by actively seeking to overturn this
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log would not waive the Fifth Amendment
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non-prosecution agreement he places my client
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privilege, I don't see that in any of these
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in a legitimate fear that he could be
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cases, which is why we were asking for the
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prosecuted for anything that could arise out
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clarification.
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of this transactional event, including any
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THE COURT: Okay. I'm going to have to
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alleged financial crimes, because that is what
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look at it again. This is complex stuff.
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the government was initially alleging.
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MS. COLEMAN: It is very complex, I don't
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THE COURT: So your position, very
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disagree.
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simply, is in a civil case where there are
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THE COURT: Okay, Mr. Scarola.
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multiple privileges asserted to almost all the
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MR. SCAROLA: I thought that I just heard
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documents there is no methodology or method by
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counsel offer to agree that the only
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which the Court can determine the validity of
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applicable privilege for purposes of this
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those assertions and, therefore, Mr. Scarola
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proceeding would be the Fifth Amendment
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can't ask your client any questions?
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privilege, and if that is what counsel is
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MS. COLEMAN: Judge, again, I have not
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prepared to agree to, that is an acceptable
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seen a case -- I don't have an answer for
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stipulation.
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you. We can try to give you an answer on
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That's what we have been asserting from
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Monday. We have a one hour special set
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the beginning of this controversy, that it is
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hearing.
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neercsary for the Court to implement a
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THE COURT: I asked for that before I
2 3
procedure, which the Court has very clearly
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thought. I didn't get a lot of help. I tried
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outlined in Your Honor's order, which would
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to do it on my own.
2 5
allow you to make a determination with regard
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MS. COLEMAN: Because there's not a
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to the validity of other privileges, even
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simple answer out there. Judge, and I can't
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assuming that the Fifth Amendment privileges
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just blanketly waive my client's rights to all
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were to apply.
3
his privileges without conferring with him,
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If opposing counsel is agreeing that they
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but the situation with which we are faced is
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will waive privileges other than the Fifth
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my client is now being put in a position where
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Amendment privilege, in order to avoid the
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he has to potentially waive any other
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procedure that Your Honor has outlined, that
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privilege he may be able to assert or waive
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is acceptable, we accept that stipulation.
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his constitutional privilege.
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THE COURT: I don't think you are going
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THE COURT: Okay, here's what I am going
10
to get it, but...
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to do. I am going to stay production of the
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MS. COLEMAN: Honestly, I don't know that
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documents until I have a chance to look at
12
my client can be forced into that position.
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this. Unfortunately, I'm in the middle of a
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The bigger issue is, respectfully, again this
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rather lengthy trial right now, and I will get
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Court can't confirm immunity upon Mr. Epstein,
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to it as soon as I can, but it won't be
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and if there's anything in those documents to
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tomorrow, it will be some time next week at
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which a crime or a link to a crime could be
16
the earliest. But I will get you something
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possibly furnished, the Court would have an
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out as to what we're going to do here.
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ethical obligation to turn it over.
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MS. COLEMAN: Judge, the last part of the
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If we could get the United States
19
clarification is, your order does speak to the
20
government, who is a party to this lawsuit
20
interrogatories, but you never actually said
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with Mr. Edwards, to come in here and confirm
21
whether or not you expected further responses
22
immunity upon Mr. Epstein, I am sure there
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to the interrogatories, and I cited some case
2 3
would be no issue with making a privilege log
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law in our motion for clarification in which
2 4
and providing all these documents. But Mr.
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the law is clear that interrogatories, because
2 5
Edwards, respectfully, has created this
z 5
they must be verified and sworn to, arc
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testimonial in nature. So that might be a
little easier to answer, but please note that
that was something with which we were also
seeking clarification.
THE COURT: Okay. Well, there are two
categories of documents here, as I understand
it. One is documents in the possession or
alleged to be in the possession of your
client, the other is documents which are in
the possession of or are corporate documents
or something like that.
MS. COLEMAN: No, Judge, that was another
portion of it. There are no corporate
documents. All of the requests are to Mr.
Epstein.
THE COURT: I don't mean corporate
documents, but documents that are not personal
to him necessarily.
MS. COLEMAN: I think the easiest way to
go through this might be to look at each
request individually, rather than trying to
make these blanket or combination assertions,
because --
THE COURT: The problem is you make
blanket objections.
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CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
I, Rogcr Watford, Florida Professional
Reporter, certify that I was authorized to and
did stenographically report the foregoing
proceedings and that the transcript is a trot
and complete record of my stenographic notes.
I further certify that I am not a
relative, employee, attorney or counsel of any
of the parties, nor am I a relative or
employee of any of the parties' attorneys or
counsel connected with the action, nor am I
financially interested in the action.
Dated this 21st day of June, 2013
Rogcr Watford, FPR/RPR
18
1
MS. COLEMAN: We didn't, Judge. We
2
objected to each one individually.
3
THE COURT: In the same objection, like
4
you just mimeographed it. Well, y'alt are too
5
young to remember mimeographs.
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MR. SCAROLA: Not all of us.
7
MS. COLEMAN: No, Judge, not to all of
8
them. Some of them, for example, may have a
9
work product type privilege or a third party
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privacy right privilege. I'll just give you
11
an example: Any account on which Mr. Epstein
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would have signatory authority.
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THE COURT: Okay, I have to move on. I
14
will take a closer look at it. I have already
15
taken a close look at it. I will take a
16
magnifying glass to it, I guess, and get you
17
something out.
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MS. COLEMAN: Thank you, Judge.
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MR. SCAROLA: Thank you, Your Honor.
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