Grand Jury Volume 16: Witness watching TV, witness on porch, witness staying with dad

Case: State of Missouri v. Darren Wilson Transcript of: Grand Jury Volume XVI Date: October 27, 2014 This transcript is printed on 100% recycled paper 515 Olive Street, Suite 300 St. Louis, MO 63101 (314) 241-6750 1-800-878?6750 Fax: (314) 241-5070 Email: [email protected] Internet: State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 1 STATE OF MISSOURI VS. DARREN WILSON GRAND JURY October 27, 2014 VOLUME XVI Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 Grand Jury Volume XVI State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson October 27, 2014 owe-I?Page 2 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF ST. LOUIS COUNTY STATE OF MISSOURI STATE OF MISSOURI VS. DARREN WILSON The following is a hearing before the Grand Jury of St. Louis County, at the offices of St. Louis County Prosecuting Attorney's Office, 100 South Central Avenue, in the City of Clayton, State of Missouri, on the 27th day of October, 2014, before FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unvwagorepen3ncon1 Grand Jury Volume XVI State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson October 27, 2014 owe-I?Page 3 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL: FOR THE STATE: Ms. Kathi Alizadeh Ms. Sheila Whirley Assistant Prosecuting Attorneys for St. Louis County 100 South Central Avenue, 2nd Floor Clayton, MO 63105 (314) 615-2600 FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 5 GRAND JURY HEARING VOLUME XVI 2 MS. ALIZADEH: Good morning. This is 3 Kathi Alizadeh with the prosecutor's office. I 4 believe it is October 27th; is that correct? And it 5 is a little after it is 8:50 a.m. Sheila Whirley is 6 here, but she just stepped out to get the first 7 witness of the morning, who will be 8 And all 12 grand jurors are present, as the court 9 reporter's also present and taking things down. 10 We just had a brief conversation before we ll got started about transcripts and listening to 12 witness' statements, about best way to proceed with 13 that. And during our lunch break today, I'm going 14 to do everything I can to make sure I have 15 transcripts for statements. Some of our statements 16 do not have transcripts. We have played some 17 statements that we didn't have transcripts for and 18 we may now have those transcripts as they have all 19 been kind of getting done along the way. So I will 20 make sure that we have transcripts for all the 2l statements that we have for every witness. 22 23 24 25 FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 6 I 2 of lawful age, having been first duly sworn to 3 testify the truth, the whole truth, and 4 nothing but the truth in the case aforesaid, 5 deposes and says in reply to oral 6 interrogatories, propounded as follows, to?wit: 7 EXAMINATION 8 BY MS. WHIRLEY: 9 I'm Sheila Whirley views yourself to the 10 grand jurors? ll A My name is 12 Spell your name? 13 14 15 All right, thank you. 16 So you know why we're here? 17 A I'm here because I've been subpoenaed to 18 testify about, um, Michael Brown's incident that 19 happened August the 8th, 2014. 20 It was a Saturday, so it would have been 2l August 9th? 22 A Yeah, it was August the 9th. 23 Does that sound right? 24 A Yes, I forgot about, yes, it was August 25 the 9th. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 7 August 9th? 2 A Yes. 3 Do you remember that morning pretty well? 4 A Um, I remember some of it vaguely because 5 I do have like hard time remembering some things. 6 Some things I can rememberquestion though, when you 8 say you have a hard time remember things, what do 9 you mean? 10 A I mean that I can be talking about ll something for a minute and then all of the sudden if 12 I'm sidetracked, I forget what I was talking about. 13 If somebody says something, then they can bring my 14 memory back. 15 Okay, all right. 16 A I'm just going to come out and tell what I 17 know. 18 And that's all we want, tell us what you 19 know. 20 A Okay. On that day I heard some shooting. 2l Well, let's start at the beginning. We 22 want to know, do you recall what you did the first 23 thing that morning? 24 A Yes, I got up, took my shower, cook me 25 some breakfast, I had two eggs, three pieces of Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 8 1 bacon that was turkey, two pancakes, a glass of 2 orange juice, milk and coffee. 3 Great memory. So you had that breakfast 4 and then what did you do? 5 A I took my meds, I took my morning meds, I 6 take meds for high blood pressure, my mood swings at 7 night, I didn't take that one. I took my hormone 8 medicine, I took my allergy medicine, Benadryl and 9 Claritin. And I also took, I can't remember the 10 name of it, but it is for when I be itching, it ll ain't Benadryl, it is the other medicine. 12 Okay. 13 A I take it because I itch a lot with dry 14 skin. 15 Now, were you at home then, I'm assuming? 16 A Yes, I was home, yes. And after I did all 17 of that, I was watching television in my living 18 room, but I was watching some cartoons that come on 19 Saturdays and then I heard some shooting. 20 Let me ask this question. Where do you 21 live? 22 A I stay in 23 Okay. And you see that pointer there, 24 that's a laser pointer, there's a button? 25 A Let me get these eyes on. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 9 I have my on standby. 2 A Okay. 3 There's a button that you push. I don't 4 want to talk the same time you talk. I have to ask 5 a question and be quiet and then you can answer. 6 A Okay. is here. 7 Now, did you live in on August 8 the 9th of 2014? 9 A Yes. 10 You still live there? II A Yes. 12 Okay. So where were you inside 13 A This is my address here 14 Okay. Where were you when you were 15 watching 16 A In my living room. 17 Does your living room have a window? 18 A Yes. No, I don't have a window here, I 19 have patio doors. 20 Where does it face, what street does it 2l face? 22 A It faces the street I stay on, Coppercreek 23 Court. 24 So it faces this way? (indicating) 25 Yes. Basically where you see the cars FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 10 1 right there. 2 Sort of west? 3 A Yes. 4 This is West Florissant over here? 5 A Yeah. 6 All right. This map looks familiar to 7 you? 8 A No, I don't look at maps. 9 But you can tell that's where you live 10 11 A Yeah. 12 From this mapyou say you heard a shot? 15 A I heard shooting. 16 Shooting. About what time was around about like a quarter to 18 11:00, something like that. 19 You're not sure of the time? 20 A No, I really wasn't looking at the clock 21 like that. 22 Okay. 23 A But I did come out of my door. 24 Describe to me what you meant by you heard 25 shooting? Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page II I A Um, it sounded like fireworks, I say like 2 that. Sounded like gunfire. 3 How many shots? 4 A At the time that I heard it, it was like 5 four shots that I heard. 6 All right. So you heard four shots then 7 what did you do? 8 A Then I, I came outside and I went next 9 door, that's right here. that's where my 10 godson stays. ll Your godson? 12 A Yes. 13 Was he at home? 14 A Yes, he was at home. 15 Did he have to open the door for youhave a keythe, okay, like you got 19 certain levels of steps. So when I went up the 20 step, it is like a little porch like before you get 2l to the second level, and that's where I was at. He 22 was coming out of his apartment, coming out where I 23 was at. He came right there, I ran down to let me 24 get this thing back on. I ran down from here, I ran 25 down and I was like right here. (indicating) FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unvwagorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 12 1 Was anybody with you? 2 A No, not that I know of. 3 Your godson, he didn't do go with youthe porch at the time 5 that I know of. 6 Okay. Did it appear he was watching what 7 was going on too? 8 A Yes. 9 What is his name? 10 A His name is 11 Okay. 12 A And so by the time I made it to where I 13 could see what was going on, Michael Brown was on 14 his knees. 15 So by the time, so you heard four shots? 16 A Yes. 17 And then you come down to Coppercreek 18 CourtAnd how far, where do you go? 21 A I was right in this part right here. 22 (indicating) 23 Near the intersection of Coppercreek? 24 A Yeah, I went all the way in. 25 And Canfield? FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 13 1 A I was like right here. 2 Is that a parking lot? 3 A Yeah, that's a parking lot. 4 All right. Near Canfield Drive? 5 A Yes. 6 And where did you see Michael Brown, you 7 said he was on his knees, where was he? 8 A He was in this area right in here. 9 (indicating) 10 On Canfield Drive? 11 A Yeah, he was on Canfie1d Drive. 12 Was he in street or in the grass? 13 A He was in the street. 14 A11 right. When you saw him on his knees, 15 what was he doing? 16 A He had his hands up like this. 17 (indicating) 18 MS. ALIZADEH: I was writing, I didn't see 19 what you did with your hands. Can you show me? 20 A He was on his knees was like this. 21 (indicating) 22 (By Ms. Whirley) You're showing that his 23 hands are raised up in the air, what, above his 24 head? 25 A It wasn't all the way up like that, it was FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 14 1 like, it was like this. (indicating) 2 Somewhat above his head? 3 A And that's when he started falling and 4 went on down. 5 Okay. So on his knees falling down when 6 you saw him. Were any shots being fired? 7 A Um, I saw the officer and before he was 8 like, Michael Brown was like falling down, the 9 officer shot him again and that's when he went down. 10 Okay. So let me make sure I understand. 11 You heard four shots, you come out onto the parking 12 lot on Coppercreek near Canfield, you see Michael 13 Brown on Canfield in the street on his knees with 14 his hands up above his head, but not straight up and 15 then you hear or you see one more shot to his head 16 did you say? 17 A Yes, ma'am. 18 And then he falls down? 19 A Yes, ma'am. 20 Which way does he fall? 21 A He falls face ward, not backwards like 22 this, he went forward. 23 So you heard a total of five shots? 24 A I heard more shots than that. 25 Okay. Tell me about the other shots that Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 15 1 you heard? 2 A Um, it was like, it was like, you know, 3 how you got a full automatic pistol and they go off 4 like, that's the way going like that. (indicating) 5 It sounded like a fully automatic pistol? 6 A Yeah that's what it sounded like. 7 That's what it sounded. How many shots do 8 you think you heard total? 9 A Total I heard 11 shots. 10 11 shots? 11 A But it could have been nine shots because, 12 you know, echo. 13 Okay. So 9 to 11 shots? 14 A Yes. 15 You first, how many shots did you hear 16 when it first got your attention that somebody was 17 shooting? 18 A Four. 19 Four? 20 A Four. 21 And where were those others, I guess? 22 A I was constantly, as I was coming out, I 23 reached my son's porch, I heard like three or four 24 more shots. As I started running down, I was still 25 hearing shots and then when I made it to where I was Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 16 at, the police was where he was at, he was facing 2 the officer and the officer shot him and shot him in 3 the head. 4 That's the one shot you saw? 5 A Yeah. 6 When you heard the first four shots, could 7 you see anything? 8 A No. 9 I mean, could you figure out what was 10 happening? You just knew somebody was shooting? II A Yes. 12 And that's when you go to the parking lot 13 and you see Michael Brown on his knees? 14 A Yes. 15 Had you seen Mike Brown before the 16 shooting started? 17 A I had not personally knowing him, I known 18 him for like two years. 19 I'm going to get to that, let me ask this 20 question. Did you see him that day before the 2l shooting occurred? 22 A Yes, I did. 23 What did you see when you saw him that 24 day? 25 A That he was heading up the street like he Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page l7 normally do, I was coming down from the store, he 2 was going up to the store. 3 Like which way was he going? 4 A He was going this way and I was coming 5 down this way. (indicating) 6 He was going toward West Florissant? 7 A Ri . 8 And how, how much time before the shooting 9 occurred did you see him going towards West 10 Florissant? II A Um, I cannot pace that. 12 Okay. Was it earlier that morning? 13 A Yeah, it was earlier that morning. 14 What was he wearing? 15 A He was wearing some khaki like shorts. He 16 had on some yellow socks that look like bumblebee l7 socks that he had pulled up to his knees. He had on 18 his flip flops that he loved so much cause every 19 time I seen him, he always have flip flops on. And 20 he had on like a T?shirt and a red Cardinals 2l baseball cap. 22 Okay. And you say you have known him for 23 about two years? 24 A About two years. 25 What is your relationship? FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page l8 A If I see him, I just speak. We will talk 2 about God and he talk about how he's going to change 3 his life, about making something out of his life. 4 Like the boys in the neighborhood, he going to go to 5 school and make something with his life working on 6 people's home with air conditioners, stuff like 7 that. Help people that can't afford to pay big 8 bucks to get their air conditioner and furnace, 9 basically fix it for them, stuff like that. 10 I told him that's good, keep that ll thought and keep positive and everything it will 12 work out fine. And that's the last talk we had. 13 When you talk about changing his life, did 14 you know what he meant by that? 15 A No, ma'am. 16 Okay. All right. Did you know his 17 parents? 18 A No, ma'am. 19 His grandmother? 20 A No, ma'am. 2l Now, when did you first talk to the police 22 and tell them about what you knew? 23 A I didn't talk to the police officers. 24 Who did you talk to? 25 A I talked to the FBI. FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unvwagorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 19 1 To the FBI. Do you recall when you first 2 spoke with the 3 A Um, I don't know, they just kept on 4 calling my house irritating me. 5 They were calling your house? 6 A Yes, and I felt I was being harassed. 7 Do you know how they knew about you? 8 A No. 9 Okay. 10 A They told me that the leasing office 11 supposedly gave all the information who stayed in 12 where. They was going door to door knocking on 13 people's door. And they had a hard time catching up 14 with me, I take small walks in the morning too 15 sometimes beings how my arthritis is doing. If it 16 flares up, I can't do it, but I was having good days 17 because it was warm outside so I was able to take my 18 walks. 19 Okay. 20 A And, um, so I can't remember his name, I 21 should have remembered his name because he called me 22 so much he started upsetting me. I don't want to 23 talk, I don't want to get involved, I mind my own 24 business, I help anybody if they need to be helped. 25 I talk to everybody, but I don't want to get Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 20 involved with that because I've already been 2 traumatized from six years old to the age I am now, 3 and just talking about it is upsetting me. And I 4 don't likes to be upset. 5 And we understand. 6 A That's what he said, I understand. It 7 ain't going to take long, so my son said momma, you 8 always told us to do the right thing, so do the 9 right thing. I said okay. 10 So I called him back, I couldn't get ll him, he called me back I told him okay, I do this. 12 And he brings a person with him, oh, Lord. 13 Do you need some water, 14 A No. I told him that I didn't want to 15 relive that day. I said I didn't want to relive 16 that day. So I told him same thing I told you all. 17 I saw him in the middle of the street on his knees 18 with hands up. Officer came up to him and shot him 19 in his head and he fell. 20 What did you do when you saw him fall? 2l A Oh, I cried because it brought back 22 memories that I've been suppressing for years. 23 Is that something you want to tell us 24 about the memories you have been expressing? 25 A When I was six years old I was in the FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unvwagorspen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 21 1 store and this officer shot this man with a shotgun. 2 He had just shot him down. 3 And that's what you thought of when you 4 saw Michael Brown shot? 5 A Yes. 6 All right. And you went back into your 7 house or did you stand around? 8 A I stayed there for a while. 9 What did you see happen after you stood 10 there for a while? 11 A Um, people started coming out. 12 What did the police officer do? 13 A They snatched him up and they took him 14 down to the leasing office and they had that all 15 blocked, nobody could get near him. But when I saw 16 the officer's side of his face, it was like red. 17 How far away? 18 A I don't know if it was a bruise or he 19 turned red because he was mad, I don't know. 20 Did you hear the officer say anything? 21 A No. 22 Did you hear Michael Brown say anything? 23 A No. 24 Okay. You never heard either one of them 25 say anything? Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 22 A No, if they was saying anything, I 2 couldn't hear it. 3 You couldn't hear it? 4 A No. 5 And you said the officer's face looked red 6 or bruised? 7 A On this side of his face it looked red. 8 Right side? 9 A It looked red. I canbruise or not because I wasn't that close to ll actually see. 12 And how close were you, would you say, 13 from the officer when you saw his face? 14 A I was like on the grass right here. Right 15 here is where I was at. (indicating) 16 How many feet do you think that would be 17 apart? 18 A I don't know. 19 As close as we are now? 20 A I don't know. 2l Okay. So even if I kind of walked it out, 22 you couldn't tell me? 23 A Now, turn sideways okay. Now that's 24 About this close? 25 A Yeah. FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unvwagorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 23 Where you could see the officer? 2 Yeah. 3 Okay. Would you be looking at his left 4 side? 5 A Yes, it had to be his left. 6 But you said it was his right side that 7 was bruised? 8 A I didn't say it was bruised, I said it was 9 red. 10 You could see both sides of his face? II A No, if he was looking directly at me, then 12 I could see the whole face. 13 Was he ever looking directly at you? 14 A No, we never made contact. 15 Did he face you? 16 A No, we never made contact. 17 You think his left side was to you? 18 A It could have been left or right, I'm not 19 good on left and right stuff. 20 All right. And then could you see Michael 2l Brown's face? 22 A No, I just saw the back of him. 23 Okay. So when you see Michael Brown on 24 his knees, did you say you were somewhere like in 25 the parking lot? Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 24 1 A Yeah, I was right where them cars, but 2 those cars wasn't parked there. 3 Were you about the same distance from 4 Michael Brown as you were from the officer when you 5 saw him on his knees? 6 A Uh?huh. 7 And we're probably 10 or 15 feet, I guess, 8 kind of what you said to me? 9 A I don't know, I just know I heard the 10 officer say that the incident didn't happen a 100 11 feet from where I stayed at. 12 When did you hear the officer say that? 13 A The officer that came to my home. 14 I see. An officer did come to your home? 15 A Yeah, he was tall, he was cut clean head. 16 Did you talk to that officer? 17 A His face was clean. I tried until he 18 upset me and called me a liar. 19 He called you a liar? 20 A Yeah, he told me I was a liar, stop lying. 21 I told him I had no reason to lie about nothing. I 22 told the other one he had black hair, he was not as 23 tall as him and I don't know if they was playing bad 24 cop, good cop stuff, you know. And like I told 25 them, I'm too old to be playing games like that. FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 25 Y'all ask me to let y'all in my home, I did that. 2 If y'all came to my home to upset me, you need to 3 leave. 4 Had you ever really seen Darren Wilson 5 before? 6 A No. 7 You never had any interaction with him at 8 all before this incident? 9 A You say Darren Wilson? 10 The police officer involved with the ll shooting who shot Michael Brown, his name is Darren 12 Wilson? 13 A Oh, yeah, once. 14 You did once? 15 A Yeah, when I was running from QuikTrip 16 because I had to pee, because I normally walk to 17 QuikTrip and get my donuts and coffee and 18 cigarettes, and I was running down Canfield trying 19 to make it home to pee. I didn't buy no coffee that 20 day, I just had donuts and cigarettes. 2l And what happened? 22 A As I was running, he was asking me what 23 are you running from. I say I'm running from 24 QuikTrip to try to get home, I got to pee. He 25 pulled in front of me and I ran straight into it, Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 26 that's why my knees is kind of messed up a little 2 bit worse than what they are. 3 How long ago was that? 4 A This was like, I've been in Canfield for 5 four years, this was like two and a half years ago. 6 And your knee is messed up because of it? 7 A No, I already had chronic arthritis, it 8 just got worse. 9 So you said you ran into the car? 10 A Yeah, and then I called the captain of II Ferguson. 12 Let me ask you what happened when you ran 13 into the car? 14 A I peed on myself. 15 Did you have any discussion with the 16 officer? 17 A Yes, I did. 18 Tell us about that? 19 A I told him I say, uh, why is you blocking 20 my way of getting home. I said I'm trying, I got to 2l pee, I said I'm peeing on myself. I said I ain't 22 peed on myself since I was two. I'm feeling very 23 violated. Could you please move your vehicle so I 24 could pee. 25 He looked at me, he smiled, and then FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepengnconl State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 27 he pulled his car back. And I was on the phone 2 talking to the captain as I was running down the 3 street to finish peeing in the toilet. 4 What captain, who did you call? 5 A I can't remember the captain's name I 6 called, but I called and said I want to speak to the 7 captain, lieutenant, or a sergeant. 8 Was this with the Ferguson Police 9 Department? 10 A Yes, this was Ferguson Police Department. ll Did you speak with one of them, with the 12 captain? 13 A Yes, that's what he said who he was. I 14 can't say that's who he was because I'm on the 15 phone. 16 Okay. 17 A And he say, well, did the officer do any 18 bodily harm to you or nothing. I said he just made 19 me feel smaller than what I would be because I had 20 peed on myself. He say, did he let you go? Yeah, 2l after I peed on myself. I don't think that's right. 22 You know, I say I don't steal, I 23 don't beat up nobody, I do nothing like crazy stuff. 24 I'm just running down the streetsouth side city or south side county, west side and Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 28 1 run anywhere I want to run and not be stopped by an 2 officer at all. I can run anywhere I want to run 3 and not be stopped by an officer at allthe car when he stopped 5 you? 6 A No, he stayed in his vehicle, he didn't 7 get out. 8 Did you see him ever again before the 9 shooting occurredJennings. 11 Okay. And that was before the shooting 12 occurred? 13 A Yeah, that was before the shooting 14 occurred. 15 When you saw him in Jennings, was this 16 before or after the incident where you peed on 17 yourself? 18 A It was before I saw him in Jennings. I 19 saw him in Jennings twice. 20 What was going on when you saw him in 21 Jennings twice? 22 A I can't remember, I seen him at Jennings. 23 I stay at Jennings sometimes. 24 Did you have conversation with him those 25 two times? FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unvwagorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 29 1 A Hi and bye, that's it. Because he would 2 speak to me and I say hi, he'll say hi and I'll say 3 hi, officer. 4 So you knew him when you saw him and he 5 knew you when he saw you? 6 A We didn't have no like personal thing, 7 when I saw you, I say hi, you know, it is just me. 8 I just speak. 9 Okay. So after this happened, after you 10 peed on yourself, did you have occasion to see him 11 after? 12 A Uh, no, I didn't see him no more until 13 that incident. 14 Until that incident? 15 A And I wasn't for sure that was him or not 16 cause I saw like the side of him, so and then when 17 they showed a picture of him, I say I know him. 18 So as you sit here today, you know that 19 the Darren Wilson that they've shown that did the 20 shooting is the one that stopped you when you were 21 running trying to get home? 22 A Right. 23 Now, when you talked with the FBI, 24 according to my notes it was maybe August 26th of 25 2014. I think you first talked to them on the phone Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 30 1 August the 13th, a few days after this happened. 2 Then they actually had an interview with you 3 August 26th, do you remember that? 4 A Yes, I called them. They left a card on 5 my door. 6 Okay. 7 A So I called them, I told them, I said I 8 don't do court. I help you in any way I can help 9 you. But I'm not trying to get involved, but this 10 is what I can tell you what I saw and said y'all can 11 take it from there. 12 They actually came to your apartment; is 13 that right? Did they come to your apartment? 14 A They came knocking, but I wasn't there, 15 that's when they left their card the first time. 16 And then, I can't remember his name, I should 17 remember that name, I can't remember. 18 That's okay. 19 A He just kept on calling, kept on calling 20 me. And then my son told me that by him being my 21 power of attorney, he figured I should not talk to 22 him because you upset my momma, I don't want to talk 23 to you either. 24 Where did they have the interview with you 25 at? Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 31 A In my home, in my kitchen. I went behind 2 my son's wishes and behind his back and I let him in 3 anyway. 4 Why does your son have power of attorney? 5 A He have power of attorney because I had 6 cancer in my back. Thank God that it ain't there no 7 more. And I was having blackouts and I couldn't 8 take care of my business at the time, so I had to 9 stay with my son for like almost two years. 10 So was that like two years ago? ll A Yes. 12 But he still has power attorney? 13 A No, sir, cause I never took it away back 14 from him. 15 Okay. Do you need him now to have power 16 of attorney? 17 A No, I do not. I just went through that 18 stuff right now. 19 When you talked to the police that day, do 20 you recall stopping the recording when they were 2l recording your statement? 22 A Yes, I did. The one that is tall, clean 23 cut, started irritating me, called me a liar, it 24 just irritated me so bad, that I really wanted to 25 choke him. I ain't going to lie and say I didn't, I FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unvwagorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 32 wanted to choke him. 2 Okay. 3 A I told him, after I cut it off, I said I'm 4 done, I said what off. 5 They need to leave my home. They refused to leave 6 my home. 7 Okay. And did you 8 A And then the one with the black hair told 9 me, he say just calm down. He told the other two to 10 leave my home. And that's when they brung a female ll come in. Before she came in, he cut it back on. He 12 said, I want to ask a few more, I said okay. 13 So you did let them record some more? 14 A Right. I told them I say, that they said 15 that since I'm lying that what I said at first must 16 have been a lie. Right now I'm going to tell you 17 the truth, is what I put on the recording. 18 So you admitted on the recording that you 19 lied initially? 20 A Right, although I wasn't, but that's what 2l they wanted to hear, so I just gave them what they 22 wanted to hear. 23 Okay. 24 A Then I told them, I said, okay, I'm going 25 to tell you the truth. And that's when I told them FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 33 about the part that I saw him on his knees, the 2 police shot him in his head, his arms was up and 3 then he fell. 4 I just made it clean cut and short. 5 I'm not trying to give the beginning of the details 6 to the end, they weren't trying to hear that. You 7 need to get out of my house because I don't need to 8 hear this. You can't tell me I'm lying, you don't 9 even know me to tell me I'm lying. I don't have any 10 reason to lie to you or nobody else. ll They just start to irritate me so bad 12 that then, I went to go from my kitchen drawer to 13 get me a spoon so I could get me some Jello to eat 14 so I can take a pill with my Jello. 15 And he thought I was going for a 16 knife. I say no, I'm not suicidal. 17 Why would you -- 18 A That's because I'm with BJC Behavior 19 Health. I don't use weapons on myself, I take 20 pills. 2l You mean you tried to commit suicide 22 before? 23 A Yes, like what I'm going through now, all 24 of these questions about death and stuff, that 25 brings back other stuff that I'm trying not to FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 34 1 remember. 2 I understand. 3 A Cause I have a dream about this stuff, I'm 4 seeing it now when I talk liking what I'm seeing. And I'm trying to hold 6 myself where I can help y'all out of what y'all need 7 to know. 8 We don't want you to help us, just tell us 9 what happened? 10 A What I mean by helping you is telling the 11 truth, that's helping you all telling the truth. 12 Right, that's all we want. 13 A That's what I'm doing, that's why I say 14 I'm trying to keep myself, oh Lord, I'm feeling like 15 I was in my apartment. 16 Okay, all right. 17 MS. WHIRLEY: Kathi? 18 A Anything else? 19 MS. ALIZADEH: Pardon me? 20 A Anything else? 21 MS. ALIZADEH: You know what, I have some 22 clarifying questions. 23 A Okay, clarify. 24 (By Ms. Alizadeh) And I'm not 25 saying, these questions are not intended to FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 35 1 embarrass you in any way, okay. But you mentioned 2 that you take pills? 3 A Yes. 4 Is it for a mental health condition? 5 A Yes. 6 Do you know what your diagnosis is? 7 A They say I have mood swings, three 8 personalities. 9 How long have you been taking medications, 10 do you remember how old you were when you started? 11 A I can't remember. 12 Okay. 13 A It has been a long time. 14 And I know you stated you take blood 15 pressure medication and 16 A That's morning. 17 And allergy medication? 18 A Yeah. 19 Those things are not for your mental 20 health? 21 A No, they are just for my morning stuff. 22 Okay. Do you know what the name of your 23 medication is that you take for your mental health? 24 A I started with the for the mood 25 swings to suppress stuff. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 36 I don't know, I take 14 medicines a 2 day, I can't remember them all. 3 Okay. Would you say are you good about 4 taking your medication every day or do you sometimes 5 go off of it because you don't like what it makes 6 you feel like? 7 A I take them every other day, sometimes, I 8 don't know if I took it or not. See, I have the 9 nurse come every Monday and do my medicine for the 10 week. And I was without a nurse for like eight ll weeks, so I took morning meds, but I couldn't take 12 my meds because I didn't know which one I was 13 supposed to take. 14 Do you live by yourself? 15 A Yes, I do. 16 So somebody comes in once a week to make 17 sure you are okay, make sure your medications? 18 A I have a worker come five days a week. 19 Okay. 20 A She makes sure I take my meds. 2l Okay. 22 A And my nurse, she make sure that my meds 23 have been taken, my doctor comes and see me once a 24 month. 25 When you take your meds as you are FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepengnconl State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 37 supposed to, how does that make you feel? 2 A Some will make me feel good where I don't 3 feel like I'm a threat to myself or nobody else. I 4 can take criticism, when I take certain meds. 5 Certain meds if I don't take them, I can't take 6 nobody hollering at me period. Just makes me angry, 7 makes me want to hurt them. 8 Okay. 9 A But if I take them, I'm like normal. 10 So they make you feel calmer? ll A Yeah, and they make me feel normal. 12 If you are not taking your meds like 13 you're supposed to, it makes you more agitated? 14 A Yes. 15 Do you ever get paranoid? 16 A No. 17 What about it, it might make you angry 18 with people? 19 A Yeah. 20 When you don't take your meds, and again, 2l I'm not asking you this to embarrass you or 22 anything? 23 A No, just go ahead. 24 Are you able to 25 A Function right? Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 38 Perceive things or do you ever have 2 trouble, you know, like perceiving what's really 3 going on around you? 4 A Yes, I do. 5 Okay. 6 A If I see anything that isn't there it 7 ain't like, it is something like, I know, these 8 glasses here. It won't be like the glasses I'm 9 thinking ain't there, no, I'm never like that. 10 Okay. Do you know if on August 9th you ll have been taking your medication regularly? 12 A Yes, I did take my meds. 13 You took it that morning? 14 A Yes. 15 You already said that? 16 A Yes. 17 What about today, did you take them today? 18 A No, I didn't take them today because I 19 was, I thought I had to be here at exactly 8:00. So 20 I didn't get that much sleep because I was trying 2l not to miss the cab and so when chance to get my shower, get dressed, and I thought 23 maybe I got time to fix something to eat and I was 24 trying to fix something to eat. And then my son 25 said, the cab is here. So I couldn't get nothing to FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 39 eat, so I cannot take my meds unless I have food on 2 my stomach first. 3 So you said your son told you your cab was 4 here, was your son at your apartment this morning? 5 A No, he came and knocked on my door today. 6 Does your son live in the complex? 7 A He stays at and I stay at It is 8 like a walkway. 9 What's your son's name? 10 A that's my godson. ll And he's here today with you? 12 A Yes. 13 He's your godson? 14 A Yes. 15 You're not related by blood then? 16 A No, huh?uh. 17 Is that the same person that has the power 18 of attorney for you? 19 A The one that has power of attorney is 20 that's my birth son. 2l Okay, all right. You remember you and I 22 talked last week about you coming in; is that right? 23 A Yes. 24 Do you remember having a conversation on 25 the phone with me? Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 40 1 A Yes. I know that upset you, you didn't really 2 3 want to have to do that? 4 A Yes. 5 But one of the things you talked to me 6 about that time you had mentioned that you wear a 7 body camera? 8 A Yes. 9 How long have you been wearing the body 10 camera? 11 A I've been wearing the body camera for 12 almost two months. 13 Were you wearing the body camera on 14 August 9th? 15 A No. 16 Do you have it on today? 17 A No, that's because you told me that I 18 couldn't wear it. That's respecting what you are 19 telling me. 20 Why did you decide two months ago to start 21 wearing the body camera? 22 A I don't want to be disrespected no more by 23 officers. I've been called, excuse my French, a 24 nigger bitch, a bitch ass nigger by officers. One 25 was County Brown and one was Ferguson. It hurt me, Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 41 1 like it cut me with a knife. I said I respect 2 everybody, I don't care what color you is, what 3 belief you have, I respect everybody. 4 Okay. 5 A So I can understand why these officers did 6 that to me. So when I was offered the body camera, 7 I wore it. And when they see body camera, how you 8 doing, ma'am. You have a good day. You have a good 9 day too, sir. When I have the body camera on. When 10 I didn't have that on me, that's what I was called. 11 Okay. 12 A You know, the word didn't bother me. 13 The word did, but that's a female dog. I don't 14 walk on fours, I walk on two. 15 Well, I understand and frankly the word 16 is 17 A No, cause that didn't bother me I was not 18 acting a fool, you know, that's what that word 19 really actually stands for, a person that is acting 2O stupid and doing stupid things. 21 Let me ask you, you started wearing this a 22 couple of months ago, were you wearing it when the 23 police came to your house and upset you the way you 24 talked about that he was calling you? 25 A I didn't have Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 42 home. 2 Okay. 3 A So when they came, they came in the 4 morning and I still had my pajamas on that day. 5 Okay. So the first police that came to 6 your house, were those the County Browns, were those 7 detectives with St. Louis County? 8 A No, they was FBI. 9 Okay. But when they first came to your 10 house, you didn't talk to them, you didn't make a ll statement at that time? 12 A I wasn't there. They kept on missing me. 13 Okay. And then eventually you did talk to 14 them; is that right? 15 A Yes. 16 And Sheila asked you during the interview 17 you got upset and you grabbed the recorder and 18 turned it off is; is that right? 19 A I didn't grab it, it was on my table, I 20 just pushed the button off. 2l Okay. You said you were upset because 22 they were telling you you were a liar? 23 A Right. 24 Were they saying that while it was 25 recording? FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unywagorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 43 A Yes, they did. 2 Okay. And so 3 A He said you're lying because we talked to 4 a whole lot of other people, they ain't said nothing 5 you are saying, you lying. And that's when I say 6 okay, you say I'm lying, then I'm lying, I cut it 7 off. I said get your recorder and get out of my 8 apartment. 9 Okay. And then at some point you calm 10 down or they got you to calm down? II A The one with the black hair, he's the one 12 that told me, just overlook him. He's being 13 an ass, just overlook him, just go on with this 14 interview. 15 So they turned on the recorder againOkay. And then you started telling them 18 what you saw; is that rightJust so I'm clear, I know you said you 2l live in this right here? (indicating) 22 A Right, uh?huh. 23 What floor do you live on? 24 A The bottom. 25 Okay. So from when you exit your house, FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepengnconl State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 44 do you have to walk up steps? 2 A That's five little steps. 3 So you don't have like a balcony? 4 A No. 5 When you look out the window of your 6 house, can you see out to Canfield? 7 A No, I can only see the parking lot and 8 building across from me. That's why I left my 9 apartment and went to (sic) 10 Okay. II A It is still it is is 12 their address. 13 Okay. So you said you were watching TV 14 when you first heard shooting? 15 A Right. 16 And then you went outside at that point? 17 A Yes. 18 Do you remember when you were talking to 19 the FBI agents, do you remember telling them that 20 you heard nine shots and two clicks, do you remember 2l telling them about the clicks? 22 A The clicks. I told them I heard click, 23 click. 24 Okay. 25 A I did say that. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 45 Do you know what that was, the clicks? 2 A I just heard click, click. 3 When did you hear the click, click in 4 relation to what you saw? 5 A That was after. 6 After? 7 A He hit the ground. 8 Okay. So after Michael Brown hit the 9 ground, you hear two clicks; click, click and you're 10 shaking your head yes? II A Yes, I forgot. 12 That's all right, I'll catch you. So you 13 said, you testified here today that you saw when you 14 came around kind of down by the street, you saw 15 Michael Brown on his knees in the street with his 16 hands in the air; is that right? 17 A They weren't all way up in the air, they 18 was like this. (indicating) 19 Okay. And the officer you said you saw 20 him shoot him in the head at this point? 2l A Yes. 22 Do you remember when you talked to the FBI 23 you told them that you didn't actually see any of 24 the shots? 25 A No, I did not tell them that. FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 46 1 Okay. You don't recall saying that? 2 A No. 3 Okay. And did you ever see another 4 African?American young man that was around there at 5 the time? 6 A That was running? 7 Yes. 8 A At the time? 9 Yes. 10 A Yes, I did see a young man running on like 11 that side, this right here. 12 How about can you use the map to say where 13 he was running? 14 A I can imagine that there is Canfield. 15 Okay. 16 A And that's the side I'm on, and that side 17 there is where like the mailbox be in the other 18 apartments. He was on that side running and going 19 toward. 20 You are talking about the south side of 21 Canfield, right? 22 A Yeah, on that side that is outside and he 23 was there and he was running. Okay. This is where 24 the male basically stood before he be going this way 25 and he was running behind the building. But he was Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 47 1 coming from this way, coming down, he shot across 2 the street to the grass area he was running. 3 (indicating) 4 What did he look like? 5 A He had dread, dreadlocks as they called 6 them, call them dreads. 7 He was, he was my complexion. He was 8 not chubby or real skinny, he was like mid frame, if 9 I can find somebody in here, he was your size. 10 (indicating) 11 Do you remember anything about what he was 12 wearingwhite T?shirt, I don't 14 remember if he had a hat on because I saw the hair. 15 He had on short blue jeans pants, you know how they 16 sag, that's the way they were. 17 Okay. Do you remember what the officer 18 looked like that day? 19 A Caucasian, he had blond hair. The 20 color I only saw the side of his face, so I couldn't 21 see his eyes. 22 Do you remember what he was wearing? 23 A He was wearing a blue uniform. 24 Do you remember if it was long sleeve, 25 short sleeve? Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 48 A Short sleeve. 2 How about a hat, did he have a hat on? 3 A No hat. 4 You saw the officer's face and I know you 5 said you're not real good at left and right, but you 6 saw a side of his face that you said looked red? 7 A Yes. 8 But you don't know why that side of his 9 face was red? 10 A No, I don't know because he was mad, he II was blushing or whatever, I don't know. I just know 12 that it was red. 13 Okay. 14 A If he was like turning like I am to you, 15 his whole face was red. 16 And so you recall today that Michael Brown 17 was on his knees with his hands about like this? 18 (indicating) 19 A Yes, ma'am. 20 You saw the officer shoot him in the head? 2l A Yes, ma'am. 22 You saw him fall on the ground? 23 A Yes, ma'am. 24 And did the officer shoot any more after 25 his knees had fallen on the ground? Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 49 1 A I know I heard his hands did, I guess, 2 like this on the gun. 3 Did you hear gunshots? 4 A No, I just heard click, click and it could 5 have been behind me clicking, I just heard click, 6 click. 7 But you could see the officer's hand 8 pulling the trigger? 9 A Yes. 10 Do you remember which hand the gun was in? 11 A No, not at this time, no. 12 Did you see any blond or when Michael 13 Brown was on his knees with his hands in the air, 14 did you see any blood on his shirt? 15 A I just saw the back of him. 16 You just saw him from the back? 17 A Right. 18 Did you see any blood on his back? 19 A I wasn't looking for no blood or nothing 20 like that. If I want to make some stuff up, I'm not 21 going to say I saw blood. I did see blood later. I 22 didn't see none when he was on his knees and stuff 23 like that. 24 MS. WHIRLEY: Okay. I don't have any 25 other questions. The grand jurors might have FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 50 1 questions for you. Anyone have questions? 2 A No questions, thank you. 3 I have two questions. 4 You stated that you saw Michael Brown that morning 5 walking, you met him in the street, you had been out 6 taking your morning walkthe store? 8 A (Nods head.) 9 And you said that Michael 10 had told you that he wanted to change his life and 11 become better? 12 A He said he wanted to change his life from 13 what he was doing. 14 Okay. 15 A What he was doing, don't nobody know that 16 but him. I knew who Michael Brown was, cause he was 17 staying with his grandma, I found out later, he was 18 staying with his grandma, which was at Northwinds, 19 which was around the corner where I was staying. 20 But he socialized with everybody in 21 Canfield because he basically join the younger folks 22 in Canfield, there was older folks in Canfield. So 23 he hung out there, so that's where I got a chance to 24 know where he was. 25 You don't know if he was FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 51 1 troubled? 2 A No. Every time I saw him he just, you 3 know, told me that and we talk about God all the 4 time. If I'm not going up, he's coming down, and if 5 I'm not coming down, he's going up. That's the way 6 we have our conversation. And we have maybe like 7 five, ten minute talksmine. 8 Do you know, ma'am, if 9 you took your medicine the day before? 10 A I only missed three weeks and that's just 11 recently. 12 Okay. Thank you so much. 13 MS. WHIRLEY: Anyone else? 14 Good morning. 15 A Good morning. 16 I know 17 that you testified and I know you have been through 18 a lot since this incident, but you're not holding 19 any animosity about the situation? 20 A Oh, no, ma'am. 21 Okay. So this is straight 22 from your heart? 23 A Yes, it is. That's is one thing I cannot 24 do is hard my heart for nobody. 25 All right. Thank you. FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 52 A I still love everybody. 2 Yes, sir. 3 That day you 4 heard the shots and you left your apartment, did you 5 walk, did you run, did you, what kind of how did 6 you move to the scene? 7 A I ran. 8 When you hear the shots, 9 do you think you want to stay in the apartment for 10 safety or what kind of drew you out to II A Because the way that the sound was coming, 12 it never came from that way, it always came from 13 behind in Northwinds. And Northwinds is known for 14 shooting up the town, that's what I thought. It is 15 an apartment complex back from behind. 16 Come from a different angle, it is 17 new, it is just me, I want to know where it is 18 coming from, that's why. 19 Okay. 20 A Anyone else? 21 MS. ALIZADEH: Okay. Sit here. 22 A I wasn't leaving. 23 MS. WHIRLEY: Before we do that, let me 24 ask you, is there anything else you want us to know 25 that we didn't ask you that you would like to FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 53 I express to this grand jury? 2 A Um, not at this moment. 3 MS. WHIRLEY: Okay. 4 A Maybe before I leave, but not right now. 5 MS. WHIRLEY: Now is the time the time? 7 MS. WHIRLEY: If you want now. We don't want to stop you from 9 saying anything. You need to tell us, or to tell 10 this jury. II A Well, I appreciate you all giving me the 12 opportunity to tell my side that I've seen. And God 13 bless you all, and that's it. 14 MS. WHIRLEY: All right. 15 MS . ALIZADEH: You know what 16 when you saw Michael Brown walking earlier and he 17 was walking like toward West Florissant, was there a 18 young man with him when he was walking toward West 19 Florissant or was he by himself? 20 A He was by hisself when I saw him earlier. 21 MS. ALIZADEH: Okay. Nothing else. 22 (End of the testimony of 23 24 25 I FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 54 of lawful age, having been first duly sworn to 2 testify the truth, the whole truth, and 3 nothing but the truth in the case aforesaid, 4 deposes and says in reply to oral 5 interrogatories, propounded as follows, to?wit: 6 EXAMINATION 7 BY MS . WHIRLEY: 8 Good morning. 9 A Good morning. 10 Please introduce yourself to the grand ll jury and spell your name for the court reporter? 12 A My name is 13 14 Okay. you know why we are here? 15 A Yes, I do. 16 About the Michael Brown shooting? 17 A That's correct. 18 Do you remember that morning, August the 19 9th, it was a Saturday, 20l4? 20 A Clearly. 2l Clearly, good. Tell us what you remember 22 about that morning? And you don't have to jump 23 straight to the shooting, I want you to lead us into 24 it. 25 A Okay. Basically I was sitting on my porch FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 55 1 around 11?ish, I say 11:35, somewhere around there. 2 Okay. You have, there's a laser pointer 3 right there. Do you know how to use that? There's 4 a button right here, there will be a red light. 5 You said you were sitting on your 6 porch, does this map help you to show us where your 7 porch would be? 8 A Exactly, right here. 9 What's that address? 10 A 11 That's in on the map and this 12 is Grand Jury Number 25. We are looking at, all 13 right. So you were sitting on the porch. What time 14 did you go sit on the porch? 15 A Around 11?ish, 11:35. 16 What had you been doing before that? 17 A I was preparing coffee and to go get 18 better reception on my porch to talk to a friend 19 that was in because I was preparing myself to 20 go out of town. 21 And I heard a gunshot or two. 22 So one or two shots? 23 A Yeah, one or two. And it caught my 24 attention because I'm sitting on the porch and I'm 25 talking to her and I'm like, hold on, let me call FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 56 you back. And, uh, I seen to go right into it. 2 Go ahead. 3 A I seen an officer, as well as Mike Brown, 4 this is east down, I guess, I don't know. 5 Yes, that would be east, on this would be 6 West Florissant over here. 7 A Okay. Mike Brown was running in this 8 direction and I came further to my porch balcony 9 because I couldn't believe it, you know. I'm used 10 to hearing noises in the neighborhood, gunshots and II to see that it was a police officer shooting at an 12 individual running eastbound on my street was kind 13 of like far fetch for me to believe. 14 All right. So you saw Mike Brown running 15 eastbound and the officer was chasing him shooting 16 after him? 17 A It wasn't so much him chasing him, it was 18 just gunshots going on. I seen Mike Brown running 19 eastbound on my street. 20 What was the officer doing? 2l A The angle that I was in, I seen him in 22 view after he came from this building, he came more 23 clearer to me as he came going up more Coppercreek. 24 You are not suggesting that this officer 25 left this street, are you? FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 57 A No, he did not. 2 You are talking about you were moving? 3 A I wasn't in clear View of him until he 4 came in the view of chasing Mike Brown eastbound. 5 Okay. When the officer came into View, 6 for you, show me again where you wereporch. 8 Outside? 9 A On the balcony, on the balcony. 10 Is that outside? II A Yes, ma'am. 12 All right. And where was Mike Brown? 13 A He was running east bound. 14 Where was the officer? 15 A Not too far from, a little bit up further 16 because he wasn't like real clear view of me seeing l7 him as of yet. I seen Mike Brown clear as day. And 18 then I started to see the officer as he was getting 19 closer, but he didn't get that close. He didn't 2O cross 9422 Coppercreek, he did not cross over. 21 Okay. 22 A Basically when a shot went off, again, I 23 seen Mike Brown put his arms up and he turns around. 24 So he puts his arms up before he turns 25 around? FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unywagorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 58 1 A He puts his arms up, yeah, when he turns 2 around when he turns around. 3 Why don't you demonstrate for us? 4 A When he turns around 5 I'm going to kind of talk to get where I 6 want to go to, okay, listen to me. 7 A All right. 8 Mike Brown is running eastbound. 9 A Yes. 10 The officer is coming after him and you 11 hear shots fired? 12 A Yes, ma'am. 13 And so what does Mike Brown do? 14 A After the shot, I guess when it grazed him 15 on his arm. 16 Now, you're guessing, why are you guessing 17 that? 18 A Because I didn't know where he got shot 19 at, I'm assuming that he got shot. 20 And you learned that later from news? 21 A Autopsy. All I know that he turned around 22 after the gunshot went off, he turned around and did 23 this. (indicating) 24 Okay. Turn your back to us like you are 25 running. FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 59 A You running and pow, pow, so I guess he 2 felt something and he turned around, and he turned 3 around right on Coppercreek directly in front of 4 where I was able to see in eyes View. He started 5 walking back toward West Florissant where the 6 officer was in View of me to see him from my porch. 7 And what was the officer doing as Mike 8 Brown walks? 9 A He had his gun raised. (indicating) 10 Was he coming toward Mike Brown, backing ll up -- 12 A They was both coming at each other at a 13 moderate pace. Mike Brown was walking towards him, 14 just walking towards him. 15 Like walk towards me. 16 A Walking towards him. And the officer had 17 his gun up like this is all I seen was him having 18 his arms raised and he was coming closer and Mike 19 was coming like, stop shooting. And he's shooting 20 him and kept shooting him. (indicating) 2l I'm like, he don't pose no threat, 22 where is his weaponry to where you deem him to being 23 hostile. 24 I mean, there was two construction 25 workers over there on the side of my building that FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 60 1 was viewing the same thing I was viewing. And they 2 seen what I seen, so did other people seen what I 3 seen. It wasn't justifiable in my eyes and I didnhostile situation. 5 So when you saw Mike Brown with his arms 6 up coming towards the officer, he did not appear to 7 be rushing the officer to you? 8 A Not at all, not at all. 9 Did he appear to be charging the officer? 10 A Not at all, not at all. 11 What in your mind is going on? 12 A I was discombobulated, I didn't know what 13 was going on because I seen this individual, like I 14 said, running eastbound on my street like what's 15 going on. 16 I didn't see, I didn't deem it to be 17 a hostile situation to where the officer needed to 18 of have had his gun raised at the level in which he 19 had it at, you know what I'm saying? Facing Mike 20 Brown. So I know that this sign is a sign of 21 surrender. (indicating) 22 And you clearly saw his hands raised above 23 his head? 24 A Clearly, clearly, I was in plain view of 25 seeing it. FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unvwagorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 61 1 They were not straight up? 2 A They was at an angle. 3 At an angle above his head? 4 A It was simply I surrender. I don't know, 5 like I said, I don't know if he got hit or shot at 6 that point, but based on the autopsy of the news, I 7 didn't know until that came through. 8 Did you hear Mike Brown say anything? 9 A Stop shooting me. 10 Did you actually hear him say that? 11 A Yes, in the distance that I was at because 12 I think that was he was in pain based on the 13 gunshots due to his body because he was taking them. 14 Did you see any blood? 15 A I didn't see any blood, but I seen that 16 the gun was fired off into his upper torso. 17 And you heard him say, stop shooting me? 18 A Stop shooting me. 19 At what point was he saying, stop shooting 20 me? 21 A When they came close. 22 Was his hands raised when he said that? 23 A Still, still his hands was still raised. 24 You said the officer shot at him several 25 times in his torso when his hands were raised? Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 62 1 A Yes, ma'am. 2 How close were they when the officer was 3 shooting at him when his hands were raised? 1 can 4 walk it out for you. Like if you are the officer 5 and I'm Mike Brown, tell me when to stop. 6 A Come further. 7 Up closer? 8 A Okay. Get the arms up like, okay, so he's 9 shooting. 10 So they're this close? 11 A At this point right here. And as he was 12 shooting, he was moving back because they got close. 13 Like we're a few feet apart? 14 A Exactly, and he had his arms up. 15 Okay. Who starts moving back? 16 A The officer starts moving back after 17 shooting, still shooting, he was shooting, and then 18 he start moving back. 19 And how many times did he shoot him when 20 Mike Brown had his hands up? 21 A Uh, from what I seen it was multiple, like 22 two to the upper torso, two down to the lower torso 23 and the remaining portion, I'm still on my porch. 24 They start to walk further on Canfield going back 25 this way to where it becomes a blind spot for me FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unvwagorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 63 because of I'm not able to see at a 2 certain angle. 3 So I don't know the closure of the 4 remaining bullets that caused to the head, I can't 5 see it because I'm in a blind spot. 6 So you didn't see Mike Brown hit the 7 ground? 8 A I can only assume based on after shot. 9 You did not see him hit the grown? 10 A No, I did not. ll So when you saw him after taking those 12 shots to the torso, he was still 13 A He was still standing. 14 Standing and walking towards the officer? 15 A Yes. 16 Was the officer saying anything? 17 A I didn't see the officer's lips move or 18 nothing. 19 You would have heard him if he was saying 20 anything? 2l A If he would have said it at a tone to 22 where I was able to hear based on me being on my 23 porch. 24 And when Mike Brown said, stop shooting 25 me? FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 64 A I clearly heard him from this point, from 2 over here to my parking lot. I mean, over here in 3 the street, I was able to still hear this. 4 Was he loud in your opinion? 5 A Yes, after with the gun, yes. 6 Stop shooting me, was he saying that, 7 yelling that? 8 A It was a scream like. If the bullets is 9 piercing his skin. 10 Okay. You are still on your porch, you ll never went downstairs? 12 A I went down after he fell to the ground. 13 Okay. So when you are at your porch, 14 that's when you see what you see? 15 A Yes. 16 You don't see anything happening when you 17 go down? 18 A I don't see the closure of the situation. 19 Okay. So from where you were on your 20 porch to where the incident, the shooting was 2l occurring, any idea how far apart you were? 22 A The distance between my apartment and the 23 street? 24 Uh?huh. 25 A I don't know the radius, I don't know. FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unvwagorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 65 1 Okay. And your vision, is it pretty good? 2 A No, I got bad vision. 3 You got bad vision? 4 A Yeah, I've got bad vision. I've got 5 contacts in to where I'm able to see what I saw 6 because of the daylight. 7 So your contacts were in then? 8 A Yes, they were. 9 And your hearing? 10 A Yes, it's good. 11 Okay. All right. So total number of 12 shots that you heard that morning? 13 A I'm going to say at least ten, that's it. 14 I can't give you no more. 15 You think ten. I know you have heard 16 information on the news about the autopsy and where 17 shots were on his body, right? 18 A Yes and no, because I did not listen to or 19 look at a lot of news. I just 20 But you know some of the information by 21 where he received the shots? 22 A Yes, yes. 23 Okay. Now, do you recall when you first 24 talked to the police? 25 A I did not talk to the police. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 66 Who did you talk to? 2 FB . 3 Do you recall when you first talked to the 4 FB 5 A Yes, I do. 6 When was that? 7 A It was the following Saturday they came to 8 everybody's apartment and questioned individuals. 9 So approximately a week after 10 A Somewhere like that. ll this occurred? 12 A Yes, ma'am. 13 And you did give them a statement? 14 A Yes, I did. 15 Okay. As you are telling us here today, 16 believe you did not see the initial 17 A No, I did not. 18 when he first made contact with the 19 police officer? 20 A No, ma'am. 2l Okay. You only saw it when the police 22 officer was pursuing him east on Canfield Drive? 23 A Yes, ma'am. 24 And just to make sure I'm clear, were you 25 hearing shots fired as Michael Brown's back was Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 67 1 turned? 2 A Yes, ma'am. 3 So it would be reasonable to assume that 4 he's shooting based on what you are telling us, that 5 he's shooting at Mike Brown as he's running away? 6 A Yes, ma'am. 7 You say you didn't hear him? 8 A I didn't hear him say anything. 9 Initially you thought he actually shot him 10 in the back, right? II A Initially. 12 Before you knew where the shots were? 13 A Exactly. 14 You realized he wasn't shot in the back, 15 does that make sense with what you saw? 16 A Yes, it does, it makes sense, it does, it 17 makes sense to coincide with what I thought. 18 Okay. Now, did you see anyone with 19 Michael Brown when you saw this incident occurring? 20 A No, ma'am. All I seen was Mike Brown 2l running eastbound on the street. 22 And tell me again why you believe that he 23 was hit before he turned around? We now know he 24 wasn't shot in his back. You said you believe he 25 was shot in his back, why did you think he was hit FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 68 1 before he turned around? 2 A Because I heard gunshots, you know, I 3 heard the gunshot and when he turned around, I 4 figure he was hit. And so he immediately submitted, 5 subdued hisself like, okay, this is real, you know. 6 You didn't see anything that gave you the 7 impression that he was injured? 8 A No, I did not. I didn't see no physical 9 indication on his body whatsoever based on distance. 10 Okay. Was it strange to you that he was ll walking towards the police officer? 12 A No, it was not because he was ready to, I 13 guess, give hisself up from running based on being 14 grazed by the bullet and I did not know that 15 information until, like you said, the autopsy came 16 out. 17 But, I mean, with his hands up and walking 18 towards the officer, what was your thinking when you 19 saw him do that? 20 A He was ready to give hisself up. 2l And you didn't see him do anything 22 threatening towards the officer? 23 A No, I did not, none whatsoever. 24 Now, you seen the movie clip, I call it 25 movie, but it's a news clip with the two FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 69 1 construction workers? 2 A Yes, ma'am. 3 And there's someone saying he wasn't a 4 fucking threat? 5 A That was my voice. 6 You have seen this and you verified that's 7 your voice? 8 A Yes. 9 Okay. Now, once he, well, you already 10 said you didn't see him hit the ground? 11 A No, I did not. 12 So where do you go after 13 A After he's on the ground. 14 I mean, you just hear, see him approaching 15 the officer, the officer is still shooting, what get closer. I come from my porch. I 18 walk and he's laying there dead on the ground. 19 After hearing a couple more shots go off. 20 Did you hear more shots go off from when 21 you were leaving your porch to get out here on 22 Canfield Drive? 23 A Yes, I did, yes, I did. 24 Did you see the officer shooting into 25 Michael Brown's body as he laid on the ground? FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepengnconl State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 70 A No, I did not. I can only assume that 2 that happened. 3 Did you see him get shot in the head? 4 A No, I did not. 5 Now, how did you make contact with the 6 7 A They made contact with me. 8 Okay. So they came to your apartment? 9 A (Nods head.) 10 Okay. Now, when you initially talked to II the FBI, and we've listened to your statements, or 12 Kathi Alizadeh and I have, there is information in 13 there that the officer was standing over him while 14 he laid on the ground and finished him off? 15 A You know, I said that out of an assumption 16 based on me being where I'm from and that can be the 17 only assumption that I have. 18 You didn't see him hit the ground? 19 A I didn't physically see none of that 20 because of the blind spot in which I'm located at 2l and this is there is a cutoff 22 margin so where I'm not able to see. My assumption 23 and my common sense leads me to believe that's what 24 occurred. 25 That once he hit the ground that the Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 71 1 officer finished him off? 2 A (Nods heads.) 3 You did not see that? 4 A I did not physically see that. 5 Okay. You never saw the officer standing 6 over him shooting into his body? 7 A No, I did not. 8 Okay. Now, did you know Michael Brown? 9 A Uh, my nephew knew Michael Brown, my 10 sister knew Michael Brown, he was a friend of my 11 nephew's. They played and he came over to my 12 sister's house occasionally to play with my nephew 13 and they was real cool and my sister said he was a 14 well?mannered individual. 15 Did you have any interaction? 16 A Never whatsoever. 17 Okay. You learned all of this after he 18 died? 19 A After he died. 20 Okay. Now, did you talk to anyone that 21 day about what happened? 22 A As far as who? 23 About what was going on and what you saw 24 and I mean, just, like the construction workers or 25 other neighbors? FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 72 A Yes, neighbors was conversing with each 2 other all through the day, all through the night. 3 Okay. And you were talking? 4 A We was all discombobulated. 5 What do you mean discombobulated? 6 A Just confused, couldn't believe that it 7 happened. 8 Okay, all right. You went out here where 9 the body was, was the officer still there? 10 A He was present for a few moments or so ll until he was relieved. 12 What's he doing, what did you see him 13 doing, if anything? 14 A Pacing back and forth, you know, that's 15 about it. 16 Did he still have his weapon drawn? 17 A No, he did not. He had it in the holster. 18 Anybody appear to give Mike Brown any type 19 of assist? 20 A They tried to, but they had it taped off 2l where, you know, individuals could not even enter 22 into, not even close relatives could even enter into 23 the scene. 24 Okay. 25 A I had to hold off his step dad because he FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 73 1 was so emotional. 2 You actually held him off? 3 A Held him off. He was ready to go and see 4 his son, you knowstrength. 5 Did you know the police officer Darren 6 Wilson? 7 A No, I do not. 8 Never had any contact with him whatsoever? 9 A No, I did not. 10 MS. WHIRLEY: Kathi? 11 (By Ms. Alizadeh) All right. 12 the first time you talked to the FBI, which was a 13 week after this happened, you told them a story that 14 had a bunch of lies, isn't that right? 15 A A bunch of lies? 16 Well, you told them that you saw the 17 officer stand over Michael Brown and empty his clip 18 into his body and finish him off, didn't you say 19 that? 20 A Well, you know, I did say that, but it was 21 based on assumption. Like I told her earlier 22 because the blind spot, me being in and that's 23 I'm not able to physically see the closure of 24 the situation. 25 You told them that you saw Michael Brown Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 74 1 get shot in the back and that's not true, is it? 2 A That's not true based on the truth of the 3 autopsy coming out. 4 But you told them 5 A Yeah, I told them that. 6 You saw Michael Brown get shot in the 7 back? 8 A I didn't have no indication of where he 9 was shot at based on me seeing what I seen. 10 And you told them that you saw the officer 11 within an arm's length of Michael Brown shoot him in 12 the head and you didn't see that, did you? 13 A Based on assumption. 14 But you told them? 15 A Yes, I did. 16 You saw that? 17 A Yes, I did tell them that based on 18 assumption. 19 And then you also told them that after 20 Michael Brown was on the ground, the officer stood 21 over him and empty his clip into him and finished 22 him off, and you told them that you saw that? 23 A Based on assumption again. 24 But you didn't tell them that you were 25 basing that on assumption, you told them that you FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 75 1 saw that? 2 A I told them in the second meeting with the 3 FBI, we all sat down and it was solely based on 4 assumption because I'm not able to be at a point to 5 where I'm not able to see. I told them based on 6 assumption, if you see the report it says that based 7 on assumption and my common sense, I wasn't 8 physically there, so therefore, I can only assume 9 that happened. 10 Well, okay. So I listened to your 11 statement. 12 A You can read it. 13 In your first statement you didn't tell 14 them that you were assuming that, you told them that 15 that's what you saw? 16 A And that's what the second visit was for 17 to clarify the first recording. 18 So in the second interview, they told you 19 that, by the time you gave the second interview, at 20 that point you had seen on the news there was an 21 autopsy? 22 A Once again, I did not look at the TV or 23 listen to reports. I looked at the reports as far 24 as knowing his autopsy, I looked at it once to 25 verify my clarification for myself because I did not Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 76 know where initially where the bullets landed. 2 Well, you changed your story in the second 3 interview to say that when he was running away, the 4 officer's shot actually grazed him in the arm? 5 A And that's what it did. 6 And you saw that? 7 A Based on the autopsy once again. 8 So you are basing all of this on not your 9 personal observation? 10 A Well ll let me finish my question. 12 A Okay. 13 So you are basing this on, not your 14 personal observation, but on just things that you 15 heard in the media? 16 A It is concrete once the autopsy come out. 17 I can assume anything based on me looking, I don't l8 know, I don't know where the bullet was landing. 19 Didn't you say in your second interview 20 you admitted that those things that you said you saw 2l you really didn't see them and you were basing it on 22 what you had seen in the media? 23 A That was the truth based on the autopsy 24 coming back. I don't have no knowledge of giving 25 autopsy, so yeah. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 77 1 So it was after you learned that the 2 things that you said you saw couldn't of had 3 happened that way, then you changed your story about 4 what you seen? 5 A Yeah, to coincide with what really 6 happened. 7 So is what you're testifying about today 8 what you really saw or you also basing your 9 testimony today finish my question. Are you 12 also basing your testimony today on things that you 13 assumed? 14 A You know, it is not a thing of assumption, 15 based on being in the position when it happened in 16 the beginning because I don't know where the bullets 17 was flying to, I can only assume that they landed 18 where they landed. 19 And that wasn't the truth of the 20 matter being the autopsy came out and gave clarity 21 based on what I thought I saw. The autopsy didn't 22 lie. I didn't know in the beginning, I was full of 23 emotion and I knew that this individual was getting 24 shot. So I assume the portions of the body that I 25 named, he was getting shot. The autopsy came out to Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 78 where it clarified everything where he got shot at 2 so. 3 So you assumed when you made your first 4 statement that the officer stood over him and empty 5 his clip into him and finished him off? 6 A Once again, based on me being in 7 and that's I can only assume. I can 8 only assume. 9 Why did you assume that? 10 A Because some individual getting shot by ll police, it was like, really, this just didn't l2 happen. 13 I mean, don't you think is it possible 14 that you said that because that's what other people 15 were saying they seen? 16 A I didn't base that on anybody else's l7 knowledge of. I only based it on my assumption, 18 once again, because I'm in and that's 19 and that's a blind spot. I only assume 20 based on bullets being fired and a dead body laying 2l on the ground. 22 You never saw Michael Brown fall on the 23 street? 24 A No, I did not. I can only assume that he 25 did because of the bullets that was due to his body. FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 79 And you said that you could clearly hear 2 Michael Brown saying the thing he said screaming, 3 right? 4 A He yelled, don't shoot me, stop shooting. 5 You remember in your first interview 6 Michael Brown put his hands up and said okay? 7 A He was saying that too as well as the 8 bullets was going off of his body, okay, he was 9 saying okay. 10 You never told the agent in your first ll interview that he was saying don't shoot me, you 12 said he was saying okay. 13 A I never told him in the first interview? 14 Yes. Do you recall? 15 A It comes out, to actually see somebody get 16 gunned down, you might miss a couple of things, you 17 know, because it's just a shock to see an officer l8 shoot somebody the way he did. So you might forget 19 something. 20 And I'm going to correct myself, I've got 2l my notes from your first interview. You said 22 Michael Brown said don't shoot, and then you said 23 you saw him fall to the ground and the officer 24 continue to shoot him. The officer stood over him 25 and finished him off in the head. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 80 1 A Once again, based on my location, 2 3 When you were interviewed first, you said 4 Michael Brown said don't shoot? 5 A He was saying that, he was saying that. 6 And then in your second interview you said 7 Michael Brown was saying okay. 8 A He was saying okay based on getting shot 9 in his upper torso once again. 10 And now you are saying he was saying stop 11 shooting me? 12 A He goes don't shoot, stop shooting, okay. 13 There was a whole bundle of things of getting 14 pierced with a bullet to his upper torso once again. 15 And in your interview, your second 16 interview with the FBI, do you remember an attorney 17 named that was talking to you? 18 A Maybe. 19 Black hair guy. And he said, you know, 20 that it is important that you talk about what you 21 saw and not what you assume happened? 22 A Okay. 23 And it was after he explained to you that 24 you have to talk about what you actually saw and you 25 also at that point knew that there was no shots in Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 81 1 Michael Brown's back, correct? 2 A At that point you're saying I didn't know 3 there was shot to his back? 4 Well, in your second interview you talk to 5 about the fact you knew he was grazed 6 in arm because of the autopsy? 7 A Yes. 8 You knew about the autopsy results during 9 your second interview? 10 A Based on what I seen with the graze on the 11 arm and him turning around. As far as the other 12 bullets are concerned, I wasn't concerned about them 13 because of the fact the closure of the bullets, I 14 was only concern of the graze of the arm based on 15 his turning around and putting his arms up and what 16 I seen when he was walking toward the police. He 17 was getting shot in the upper torso and lower torso, 18 that's all I can give you based on me visualizing 19 and seeing what I saw, that's it. 20 I can't give you the closure of him 21 standing over him and finish him off with a head 22 shot. I don't know. I don't know. I assume, once 23 again, based on me being where I was at in 24 there's a blind spot. I 25 can only assume by common sense that occurred. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 82 I So today did you see the officer shoot 2 Michael Brown as he was running away? 3 A Yes, I did. 4 You saw him shoot Michael Brown as Michael 5 Brown was running away? 6 A I saw him shoot in the direction, he 7 became clear to, once again, he became clear to me 8 as Mike Brown running eastbound on the street, he 9 became clear to me when he made hisself visual 10 outside of When he became clear to me, ll this is the angle I'm able to see him at. He became 12 clear to me and I notice that Michael Brown run this 13 way, he became clear to me when he left this 14 building right here, 15 But my question is today, do you remember 16 the officer shooting Michael Brown as Michael Brown 17 was running away? 18 A Yes, I do. 19 You saw him shoot him as he's running 20 away? 21 A I saw him shoot in the direction Mike 22 Brown was running into, eastbound. 23 Okay. And then as you sit here today, do 24 you remember seeing Michael Brown get shot in his 25 chest and his torso? FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 83 1 A Yes, I did. 2 Do you remember Michael Brown falling on 3 the ground? 4 A I can only assume him falling on the 5 ground due to me being in and this 6 I wasn't able to see him physically fall 7 to the ground. 8 So from is your where your porch is? 9 A Yes. 10 Michael Brown would have been right around 11 this area, right? 12 A Yes, he would of. 13 And so at that point you kind of have a 14 side View of him, is that fair to say? 15 A Side View with a blind spot. 16 Side view with a blind spot? 17 A Yes. 18 MS. ALIZADEH: I don't have anything else. 19 MS. WHIRLEY: Questions? 20 21 Can you show us on the map at which point Michael 22 Brown turned around? 23 A At what point? 24 Yes, how far east did he 25 go? FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 84 A He was approximately, he was about right 2 here. He was about right here when he turned 3 around. (indicating) 4 Can you show us where his 5 body ended up? 6 A His body ended up about right there on the 7 ground. (indicating) 8 I'm trying to estimate 9 that distance how far he traveled back to the west 10 as he was being shot at. II A Right. 12 I mean, I don't know that 13 area well, is that 50 feet, 100 feet, that looks 14 like a pretty good distance. 15 A Yeah, it's a pretty good distance. 16 That whole time as he's 17 advancing towards the officer he's being shot at and 18 the officer is backing up for part of that, I guess 19 to keep his distance or what's happening in your 20 mind? 2l A In my mind I see Mike Brown with his hands 22 up once again, and they are coming closer and I'm 23 like, why is you shooting this individual if he's 24 showing a surrender, you know, I don't get it. He 25 started backing up and still letting rounds off Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 85 1 like, you don't pose no threat, what is the threat. 2 So I'm really puzzled, you know. 3 Okay, thank you. 4 5 A How you doing. 6 I have some questions. 7 You said that you made your changes in your story 8 after, um, the facts were revealed from the autopsy? 9 A Yes. 10 So you said that Michael 11 Brown was running eastbound? 12 A Yeah. 13 Okay. And the police 14 officer was shooting at him? 15 A Yes. 16 And you saw him get shot 17 in the upper torso story? 18 A Yes, I did. 19 So are you telling us 20 that he got shot in the upper torso through his 21 back? 22 A No. 23 Okay. 24 A What I'm saying is based on 25 Not assumption, 1 want to Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 86 1 know what you saw. Did you see blood, how did you 2 know he was shot? 3 A Well, basically his upper torso I was able 4 to see with my own two eyes. 5 Okay. And after he 6 turned around? 7 A After he turned around, the officer is 8 coming closer, he's coming closer and I was able to 9 physically see, no assumptions. 10 Okay. II A He was shooting in his upper torso. 12 Okay. 13 A And I seen this. 14 And how do you know he 15 was shot? 16 A Cause I seen it with my eyes. 17 Okay. What did you see 18 blood, did you see holes, did you see smoke, what 19 did you see? 20 A I seen the gun being fired, I seen the gun 2l being fired into his upper torso. 22 You saw the gun being 23 fired towards Michael Brown? 24 A Yes. 25 You didn't see anything, FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unvwagorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 87 1 a jerk or a fall or anything that would lead you to 2 believe, I'm just playing the devil's advocate here, 3 to lead you to believe that he was shot. You didn't 4 see him, you saw him get shot at? 5 A I seen him get shot. 6 Okay. 7 A I didn't see him get shot at. At that 8 point you are asking me, but as far as when he was 9 running eastbound is when he get shot at, that's 10 shot at, but being shot. 11 Okay. 12 A I seen him get shot in his upper torso. 13 Okay. And what makes you 14 say he got shot, did you see the holes, did you see 15 the blood? 16 A The distance between the officer and 17 Michael Brown and where he had his gun raised, I 18 seen him physically get shot in his upper torso. 19 Okaymoving toward the police with his arms up and he was 21 not posing a threat? 22 A None whatsoever. 23 Okay. And I'm going to 24 ask you this, and I believe you, but you live there 25 so you knew he wasn't a threat to you, but if you Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 88 1 were a police officer and he's still moving toward 2 you, how could you be sure that the police officer 3 didn't think he was a threat? If I were being shot 4 and I were being shot at, even though I had my hands 5 up, I'd get on the ground. 6 Couldn't it be possible, why didn't he 7 stop moving? I mean, it would seem to me that there 8 could still be perceived as a threat if he's still 9 moving toward the police officer and the police 10 officer is backing up. Look at it from another 11 point, I just want you to tell me if it's possible? 12 A It may be possible in your world. 13 In my world? 14 A Yeah. 15 Okay. What does that 16 mean? 17 A That means that you more than likely not 18 to be shot the way he was shot. So he did not know, 19 being as young as he is, not knowing the seriousness 20 the situation. After getting pierced with the gun, 21 his torso to get down on his knees because he's 22 thinking to hisself, I'm assuming that this officer 23 what is he doing. He's here to protect and serve, 24 he's here to protect and serve. 25 If you were being shot, FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unywagorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 89 wouldn't you want to get down on the ground? 2 A Immediately, but he did not know, 3 apparently, he did not know to get down on the 4 ground. 5 So I want to ask you a 6 question. Again, about thatquite a distance that he moved toward the police 8 officer, 50 to 100 feet? 9 A Uh?huh. 10 Okay. And at that point 11 he was out of your sight? 12 A Uh?huh, correct. 13 So you don't know, he's 14 moving toward the police officer, even though he has 15 his hands up, he's still moving towards him. 16 A After getting shot in the upper torso. 17 After getting shot in the 18 upper torso, how many times has he been shot? 19 A I say, 1 say, about four times, I think 20 about. 21 Four times in upper 22 torso? 23 A Two upper torso and two down lower 24 portion. At that point it becomes a blind spot once 25 again. FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 90 1 So he's been shot four 2 times, he's still moving forward, he hasn't gotten 3 down on the ground, and then he gets out of your 4 sight and you do not know what happens after that. 5 You don't know if his hands went down, you don't 6 know if he charged, you just know that his hands 7 were up and he was still moving forward. 8 A Correct. 9 And the police officer 10 was moving back? 11 A Correct. 12 Okay. So I need to know, 13 you said, and you have to help me understand, I want 14 to make a good decision here. You said he said stop 15 shooting, but then you said he was saying okay, 16 okay, okay. Why are you shooting me. 1 need to 17 know what you heard, not what you think you heard or 18 what you heard. 19 A I'm assuming, I'm not going to assume, I'm 20 going to tell you based on you get pierced with a 21 bullet. 22 Uh?huh. 23 A Multiple things will come out your mouth 24 you never spoke of. 25 Okay. FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 91 1 A That's what he was going on. He was 2 getting pierced by some bullets. He was pleading 3 for his life. 4 Okay. Thank you. 5 You have said 6 earlier today that your story matched those of the 7 construction workers, did you talk to them earlier 8 that day? 9 A No, I did not. 10 Did you talk to them after 11 this incident happened? 12 A We don't even know each other. 13 Okay. You haven't l4 communicated since this incident? 15 A I haven't communicated to him, no. 16 How do you know that your 17 story matches their story? 18 A Excuse me? 19 How do you know that your 20 story matches their story? 21 A I say this much, we was looking in the 22 same direction at the same given time. If it 23 differs, then we both blind. 24 Thank you. 25 Immediately FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 92 after the shooting stops, were you still on your 2 balcony? 3 A I started to get closer because I was 4 curious to want to know why was the extra rounds let 5 off. 6 Okay. Did you see any 7 cars go by? 8 A Traffic stopped because of the officer's 9 blocking off Canfield. 10 Okay. So from the time ll that you were on your balcony to the time that you 12 started getting closer to where Michael Brown had 13 fallen, did you notice any cars going up and down 14 Canfield. 15 A None whatsoever. 16 I'm sorry, one other 17 question. When you saw, when Michael Brown was 18 running from the police officer, he first came into 19 your field of vision, as he's running east towards 20 the Northwinds Apartments, can you describe how he 2l was running, was he in a dead sprint. 22 A It wasn't so much of a dead sprint, he was 23 light footed, he had socks on. And he was trying to 24 get little, in this expression I mean little, he was 25 trying to get up, but he wasn't fast, it wasn't FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 93 1 fast. It was a moderate pace, you know. 2 Okay. And at that point 3 he turned and as he's turning, his hands go up in 4 the air? 5 A That's correct. 6 And he starts moving back 7 towards the police officer and the police officer is 8 moving back. Was it, can you describe how he was 9 moving at that particular point? 10 A The way in which he was walking toward 11 West Florissant? 12 Yes. 13 A He was walking at a moderate pace to where 14 he has his arms up, he was walking like this at a 15 moderate pace. There was not no running whatsoever. 16 Okay. And that's when you 17 started to hear what he had to say? 18 A Because the gunshots was going off. 19 Okay, all right, thank 20 you. 21 At the 22 point that you see him coming back with his hands 23 up, did he ever appear to you that he was charging 24 the police officer? 25 A None whatsoever, not to me. FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 94 1 Did it appear to you that 2 he put his hands on his shirt or in his pants? 3 A No indication of that whatsoever. 4 Thank you. 5 Prior 6 to this incident, have you ever seen anyone or view 7 anyone shot before? 8 A I, myself, have been shot before. 9 Okay. And where did you 10 get shot? 11 A In the arm, in the lower torso. 12 Okay. And can you tell me 13 what distance you were shot, was it the same 14 distance at which Michael Brown was shot? 15 A Much closer. 16 Much closer, okay. And 17 when you were shot, did you immediately start 18 bleeding? 19 A Yes, I did. 20 Okay. 21 Were 22 you shot by the police? 23 A (Shakes head.) 24 Did you 25 say that you ever got a visible facial expression, FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 95 1 the police officer, could you see his face at all? 2 A Yeah, he was looking based on what I seen, 3 just in a state of confusion, I guess, that's the 4 best I can express it to be. 5 Is this afterwards? 6 A Yes. 7 Could you see him at all 8 during? 9 A Yeah, he was in the street. He was pacing 10 back and forth talking to his fellow officer. 11 Okay. While Michael was 12 running, could you see the police officer, did he 13 ever become visual? 14 A He became visual to me after he left this 15 point. I was able to visibly see him when he came 16 in view. 17 Could you see his face of 18 any color issue or anything? 19 A At that time there wasn't no physical 20 damage to his face that people say, there was 21 nothing on his face. 22 Thank you. 23 MS. ALIZADEH: you came down 24 to the scene closer eventually; is that right? 25 A Yes, I did. FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepengnconl State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 96 1 MS. ALIZADEH: Did you see people around 2 that area? 3 A A lot of people. 4 MS. ALIZADEH: Anybody you recognize? 5 A A_lot of people that live in the complex. 6 MS. ALIZADEH: You recognize anybody that 7 you know by name. 8 A Yeah, I did. 9 MS. ALIZADEH: What names do you remember 10 seeing down there? 11 A Um, they got nicknames, they don't have 12 even use their real names over there. So there is a 13 lot of people that live in the complex with me. I 14 seen a lot of other little people 15 and they was just in awe. 16 MS. ALIZADEH: And as the shooting was 17 happening, I know you said you saw the construction 18 workers there. 19 A Uh?huh. 20 MS. ALIZADEH: As the shooting was 21 happening, not afterwards, as it was happening, did 22 you see anybody that was in this vicinity? I'm just 23 going to generally say, did you see anybody that was 24 on foot in this general vicinity? 25 A Did I see anybody on foot? They only came Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 97 1 about being out there when they heard what they 2 heard or seen what they seen based on Mike Brown 3 being on the ground. 4 MS. ALIZADEH: Okay. So did you ever see, 5 and is your stepmom, not stepmom, 6 godmother? 7 A She's play mom, she stays next door to me. 8 MS. ALIZADEH: Did you ever see her that 9 day? 10 A Yes, she was out there. 11 MS. ALIZADEH: Where was she when you 12 first saw her? 13 A I wasn't, I wasn't paying attention to 14 nobody. I was zoning in to what I seen. I just had 15 a blockage. 16 MS. ALIZADEH: Okay. You said you saw her 17 out there? 18 A After I came from my porch and everybody 19 kind of gathered up as Mike Brown laid on the 20 ground. 21 MS. ALIZADEH: You weren't paying 22 attention to anything before you saw her at the 23 scene after he was on the ground? 24 A Exactly. 25 MS. ALIZADEH: All right. Did you talk to FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 98 1 her about what you had seen? 2 A No, no. 3 MS. ALIZADEH: Did she talk to you about 4 what she had seen? 5 A No, she kept stuff to herself, you know, 6 like I was. I'm like, did this really just happen. 7 It's like, it is hers, you know. 8 MS. ALIZADEH: Did you ever, I know there 9 is a part of it at the end that you say you didn't 10 see? ll A Exactly. 12 MS. ALIZADEH: You never saw Michael Brown 13 on his knees? 14 A No, I did not. 15 MS. ALIZADEH: All right. Thank you. 16 MS. WHIRLEY: Anybody else? 17 Did you know 18 prior to August 9th? 19 A I've seen her off and on. 20 So you have met her? 21 A Yes, off and on. Just, just the situation 22 just brought everybody close together in a sense 23 because, you know, you see people passing and you go 24 hi, bye, it is just that. 25 Okay. FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 99 Will 2 you tell us why you were shot? 3 A Could you repeat the question? 4 Why you got shot, 5 somebody shot you? 6 A Why did I get shot? 7 Yesmisunderstanding between me 9 and a brother?in?law. lO Between you and who? ll A A_brother?in?law. It was a family related 12 situation to where you know, it just occurred. 13 That's not on the record? 14 MS. ALIZADEH: Pardon me. 15 MS. WHIRLEY: Any other questions? 16 MS. ALIZADEH: is there 17 anything else that you can think of or that we 18 haven't asked you that you think is important for 19 this grand jury to know and understand when they 20 make their decision? 2l A Basically I think you guys are doing your 22 best to dissect and analyze this case. I just ask 23 that you be forever mindful of both sides, of both 24 families and give just due. 25 MS. ALIZADEH: Okay. Anyone else have Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 100 anything any other questions? All right. 2 (End of the testimony of .) 3 4 of lawful age, having been first duly sworn to 5 testify the truth, the whole truth, and 6 nothing but the truth in the case aforesaid, 7 deposes and says in reply to oral 8 interrogatories, propounded as follows, to?wit: 9 EXAMINATION 10 BY MS. ALIZADEH: ll Could you tell us your name? 12 A 13 Okay. remember when I told you 14 you are going to have to speak up so we can hear you 15 all the way back here? 16 A Yes. 17 So first of all, can you spell your name 18 for the court reporter? 19 A 20 Can I call you 2l A Yes. 22 How old are you? 23 A 24 And when was your birthday? 25 A Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 101 1 You live with your mom; is that right? 2 A Yes. 3 Now, your mom doesn't live in Canfield 4 Green; is that correct? 5 A No. 6 Who lives in Canfield Green that you know? 7 A My dad. 8 And do you know what your dad's address 9 is? 10 A I don't know. 11 Okay. Do you remember when the police 12 first came to talk shooting? 14 A Yes. 15 Were you at your father's apartment when 16 they talked to you? 17 A Yes. 18 Okay. So if the, can you look on this 19 map, this is Grand Jury Exhibit Number 25. These 20 are the buildings and the roads that are in Canfield 21 Green, can you see where your building is? 22 A No. 23 Okay. Do you know that your address is, 24 25 A No. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 102 1 You don't know that? 2 A No. 3 Okay. So here is So if your dad 4 told the police that on the day that you were 5 interviewed that that was your address, would that 6 be, do you have any reason that your dad wasn't 7 truthful, right, your dad told the police where you 8 lived? 9 A Uh?huh. 10 Okay. And the police were at your house 11 when they interviewed you, your dad's house? 12 A Yes. 13 Okay. So here is on the map right 14 here. Do you know what floor your dad lives on? 15 A Third floor. 16 The top floor? 17 A Uh?huh. 18 And so when you were in your dad's 19 apartment and you look out the window, the front 20 windows, you can see Canfield Drive; is that right? 21 A Yes. 22 Okay. Now, were you staying with your dad 23 when you were on, August 9th that day were you 24 staying there, like the weekend or something? 25 A Yes. FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 103 1 Do you spend weekends with your dad? 2 A Yes. 3 Do you know people in the complex, do you 4 have friends in the complex? 5 A No, that was my second time over there. 6 That was the second time you had ever been 7 there? 8 A Uh?huh. 9 Have you been there since? 10 A Yes, once. 11 Did you know, now you know that this is 12 about the day that Michael Brown got shot, right? 13 A Yes. 14 Did you know Michael Brown before that 15 day? 16 A No. 17 Had you ever seen him in the complex? 18 A No. 19 All right. Do you know a guy named Dorian 20 Johnson or 21 A No. 22 Okay. Um, so why don't you tell the grand 23 jurors what you were doing on that day on August 9th 24 when you heard something? 25 A Um, I was listening to some music on the FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 104 1 TV until I heard some screaming. 2 Okay. Nobody can hear you back here. 3 That microphone isn't going to amplify your voice. 4 So let's practice something, say 5 A 6 But louder? 7 A 8 A_little louder low. 9 A 10 There you go, okay. I know you can do it. 11 I bet you raise your voice sometimes, right? 12 A (Nods head.) 13 All right. So on the day that the 14 shooting happened you were at your dad's, right? 15 A Yes. 16 Where in the apartment were you, is your 17 dad's apartment a two bedroom or one bedroom? 18 A One. 19 One bedroom? 20 A Uh?huh. 21 So when you would stay at your dad's, 22 where would you, would you sleep in the living room? 23 A The living room. 24 Like on a couch? 25 A Yes. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 105 And so, um, when you're in the living room and you look out the windows, do you look onto 2 3 Canfield? 4 A Yes. 5 Okay. So I think you said that, were you 6 in the living room when you heard something? 7 A Yes. 8 What were you doing? 9 A Listening to some music. 10 Listening to some music? II A Yes. 12 Was it on the radio or were 13 A No, I was YouTube. 14 On YouTube? 15 A Yes. 16 Was it on a computer then game. 18 On a game? 19 A Yes. 20 Like a handheld kind of game? 2l A Yeah. 22 What kind of game was it? 23 A A_Play Station 24 Okay. So this is a game that plays on 25 your Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 106 1 A Yes. 2 Was the music turned up real loud? Like 3 sometimes my kids turn their music up really, really 4 loud, was your music up loud? 5 A No. 6 And what happened that suddenly drew your 7 attention to something? 8 A I heard some screaming. 9 And did the screaming, did you think it 10 was inside the apartment or outside the apartment? 11 A Outside. 12 And did you, could you tell at that time 13 if it was a man's scream or a woman's scream or a 14 boy's scream? 15 A Um, no. 16 You couldn't tell? 17 A No. 18 Was the scream a word or words or was it 19 just a sound? 20 A It was just a sound. 21 Prior to the scream, did you hear anything 22 else that drew your attention? 23 A No. 24 So that's the first thing that you heard 25 that you thought, what was that? FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unvwagorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 107 1 A Yes. 2 All right. So what did you do when you 3 heard the scream? 4 A I walked to the window and started to look 5 out the window. 6 So now in your living room, because we 7 heard people talk about the apartments there, is 8 there a sliding glass door? 9 A Yes. 10 Is that the window that you looked out? 11 A Yes. 12 And are there blinds on that sliding glass 13 door? 14 A Yes. 15 On that day, do you know were the blinds 16 open or closed? 17 A They was open, but there was some missing 18 so I didn't have to touch the blinds. 19 They were open? 20 A Yes. 21 You didn't have to touch them? 22 A Yes. 23 They were in a way where you could look 24 through the blinds? 25 A Yes. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 108 1 So the blinds were across the window, but 2 they were open? 3 A Yes. 4 All right. So when you looked out the 5 window, let me ask you first. Was there anybody 6 else home with you? 7 A No. 8 So when you looked out the window from 9 what did you see when you looked out the 10 window? 11 A I saw a police car parked in a funny kind 12 of way. 13 Okay. Let's back up. I'm going to repeat 14 what you say so everybody can make sure they hear 15 your answers and you tell me if, remember if I say 16 if I say something and it is not what you said, you 17 need to correct me, okay? 18 A All right. 19 So you said you saw a police car? 20 A Yes. 21 Was it, can you describe the car? 22 A Um, I guess it was a truck. 23 A truck? 24 A Uh?huh. 25 So are we talking about like a pickup Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 109 1 truck or like an SUV truck? 2 A Like an SUV truck. 3 Okay. Did it have markings on it or was 4 it just a plain color? 5 A It was a white car with blue police light 6 on it. 7 All right. Now, so this was a marked 8 police 9 A You said it was what? 10 It was a marked, meaning it had letters on 11 it? 12 A Yes. 13 That said police? 14 A Yes. 15 Did it have a light bar on the top of the 16 truck? 17 A Yes. 18 Were the lights on? 19 A No. 20 Okay. So you see the police truck and you 21 said it was parked in the street? 22 A Yes. 23 You said it was kind of, I can't remember, 24 did you say it was kind of parked funny? 25 A Yes. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 110 1 How so? 2 A It was like it was in the street kind of 3 like tilted so nobody could get past. 4 Okay. So from where you were looking at 5 it, which side of the police truck were you looking 6 at, the driver's side or the other side? 7 A The driver's side. 8 And so if this is the map of that street 9 and if you live here, can you use this, this is a 10 pointer, if you press that button see look, so you 11 can use this to point on here. Can you point on 12 there where the truck was when you saw it parked 13 kind of funny? 14 A It was about right there. (indicating) 15 So pretty much in front of your apartment? 16 A Yes. 17 Okay. And so when you looked out and saw 18 the police car, did you see any people? 19 A Yes, I saw one other person. 20 One other person? 21 A Uh?huh. 22 And what did that person look like? 23 A He was dark skin, had dreads and he had on 24 a black shirt. 25 And where was he? FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unvwagorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page A He was standing about like right here on 2 the side. (indicating) 3 So he was a little, a little further down 4 the street east from where the police car was? 5 A Yes. 6 So if he, from where he was, could he 7 reach out and touch the police car? 8 A No. 9 No. Too far away to touch it? 10 A Yes. ll What was he doing? 12 A He was just sitting there watching. 13 So when you say he was sitting there, was 14 he actually sitting? 15 A No, he was standing. 16 Was he in the street or on the side? 17 A On the sidewalk. 18 On the sidewalk? 19 A (Nods head.) 20 Was he on the opposite side of the street 2l or was he on your side of the street? 22 A Opposite side. 23 Okay. And so did you see anybody else on 24 the street or around the police car? 25 A I saw two cars trying to get through Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 112 1 coming from each direction. 2 So were these regular cars or police cars? 3 A Regular cars. 4 And you said they were going east to west, 5 were they going this way on Canfield? 6 A One was going that way and one was going 7 the other way. (indicating) 8 One was coming this way and one was coming 9 that way? (indicating) 10 A Yes. 11 Were they able to get by? 12 A Yes. 13 So they went ahead and passed the police 14 car? 15 A Uh?huh. 16 And did the car that was going westbound, 17 did that pass the police car too? 18 A Yes. 19 Okay. What was going on at or around the 20 police car, did you see anything? 21 A Yes. 22 What did you see? 23 A I saw, um, the man like trying to pull 24 away from the police, pull his arm out of the police 25 car. FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 113 1 Okay. So let's stop. You said you saw 2 the man was trying to pull away from the police car? 3 A Yes. 4 So is this the man with the dreads in the 5 black shirt? 6 A No. 7 So this is another person. So let's 8 describe this person, what did he look like from 9 what you could see? 10 A I saw a red hat, some yellow and black 11 socks and flip flops. 12 All right. Red hat, what kind of hat? 13 A I think the Cardinals. 14 Was it a ball cap style hat? 15 A Yes. 16 Okay. And you said what color socks? 17 A Yellow and black. 18 Yellow and black. And then you said some 19 Nike flip flops? 20 A Yes. 21 And what about his shirt, could you tell 22 what kind of shirt saw khaki shorts he had on. 24 Khaki shorts? 25 A Uh?huh. FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 114 1 And so when you looked out and you saw 2 him, were you looking at his back, his side or his 3 front? 4 A His back. 5 And so could you see his face when you 6 were looking out, when you first looked out? 7 A No. 8 Was this, I mean, we've said a he, it was 9 a male, correct? 10 A Yes. 11 Was he African?American? 12 A Yes. 13 And can you give me an idea of how old he 14 might have been? 15 A Like 17 or 18. 16 So like a young man? 17 A Yes. 18 Not an older person? 19 A No. 20 What about his size, what was his size 21 like? 22 A I'd say about 210. 23 About what? 24 A 210. 25 Like that would be his weight, 210? Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 115 1 A (Nods head.) 2 About how tall, how tall are you 3 A 4 And looking at what you could see of this 5 person, did he look like he was taller than that? 6 A Yes. 7 All right. And so where was he when you 8 first, you said that you saw him look like he was 9 trying to pull away. Where was he when you first 10 looked out and saw him? 11 A That's what he was doing, trying to pull 12 away. 13 Pull away from what? 14 A The police car, inside the police car. 15 So he was at the side of the police car? 16 A His arm was. 17 His arm was? 18 A (Nods head.) 19 Describe what you remember seeing. Is he 20 next to the police car, in front of the police car, 21 behind the police car? 22 A He was next to it. 23 Was he on the driver's side or on the 24 other side? 25 A Driver's side. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 116 1 Was he closer to the front of the car or 2 the middle of the car or the back of the car? 3 A The front. 4 Okay. Could you see, you said his arm, 5 you said something about his arm, what was his arm 6 doing? 7 A His arm was inside the police vehicle. 8 All right. His arm was inside the police 9 vehicle? 10 A Yes. 11 Do you remember which arm? 12 A No. 13 And did you get any, could you see what 14 was going on inside the police vehicle? 15 A No. 16 Could you see if there was anyone inside 17 the police vehicle? 18 A I wasn't paying attention to that. 19 Okay. So at this point you just notice 20 him? 21 A Yes. 22 And one of his arms is inside the police 23 vehicle? 24 A Yes. 25 So I don't want to assume anything, but is Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 117 1 it, is the door open, is the window open, how is it 2 that his arm is inside the vehicle? 3 A The window is down. 4 Okay. Which window, the front, like the 5 driver's window or back window? 6 A The driver's window. 7 All right. And so you said he was like 8 trying to pull away? 9 A Yes. 10 Okay. Can you describe what you mean by 11 that, what was he doing that you say it looked like 12 he was trying to pull away? 13 A Because he had one of his arms on the 14 police vehicle moving back trying to pull away. 15 So one of his arms was on the police 16 vehicle? 17 A (Nods head.) 18 And the other one was inside? 19 A Yes. 20 And you think he was trying to pull away? 21 A Yes. 22 Could you see why he couldn't walk away 23 from the vehicle, could you tell what was keeping 24 him from 25 A I guess he was grabbing on like. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 118 1 Okay. And you're guessing that I'm guessing. 4 So you couldn't tell what was holding him 5 from pulling away? 6 A No. 7 You said it was like he was trying to pull 8 away? 9 A Yes. 10 And, okay. So what did you see then? 11 A Then, uh, I seen the police officer try to 12 tase him. 13 Okay. So you said you saw the police 14 officer try to phase him? 15 A Uh?huh. 16 Could you see a police officer? 17 A You said, did I see a police officer? 18 Yeah. 19 A Yes. 20 Okay. Where was the police officer? 21 A In the car. 22 Was he in the back or the front? 23 A The front. 24 Was he in the passenger or driver's side? 25 A Driver's side. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 119 1 And you said you saw him try to tase him? 2 A Yes. 3 So what do you mean by that, describe what 4 you saw? 5 A I saw him pull out something. I also saw 6 something go past. 7 You saw who pull out something? 8 A The police officer. 9 All right. And did you see where he 10 pulled And what did this thing that he pulled out 13 look like? 14 A It looked like a yellow and black kind of 15 thing. 16 I'm sorry, it was like a yellow? 17 A Yellow and block. 18 Yellow and black? 19 A Yes. 20 So you described it, you said that he 21 tried to tase him, have you seen a taser before? 22 A No. 23 All right. What do you think a taser 24 looks like? 25 A Uh, I think it is yellow and black. FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unvwagorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 120 1 Okay. So does it look like, all right. 2 You said the officer had that in his hand. Do you 3 remember which hand it was in? 4 A Yes. 5 Which hand? 6 A His right. 7 And what was he doing with it? 8 A Like he pointed it at the victim. 9 So he pointed it at the guy that was at 10 the car? 11 A Yes. 12 Okay. And you said you saw something come 13 out of it? 14 A Uh?huh. 15 Did you hear anything? 16 A No. 17 You didn't hear any kind of pow or noise? 18 A Not until he shot. 19 Okay. So at this point something comes 20 out of the taser? 21 A Yes. 22 What did that look like? 23 A It was like a string. 24 Like a string? 25 A Like a metal string. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 121 1 Okay. And so does that look like the car? 3 A No. 4 Did you see that it didn't hit him or you 5 couldn't tell? 6 A I saw that it didn't hit him. 7 So did it go past his body then? 8 A Yes. 9 Have you ever seen like a taser being 10 fired like on television or anything? 11 A No. 12 You never seen a taser being fired? 13 A No. 14 Okay. So then what happened then you saw 15 the taser and the thing came out and went past the 16 boy in the car, what happened then? 17 A I saw him pull out his gun. 18 You what? 19 A I saw him pull out his gun. 20 You saw him with his gun? 21 A Yes. 22 You saw who with his gun? 23 A The officer. 24 So where did the gun come from, did you 25 see how the gun came into the picture? FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 122 A No. 2 Did the gun look different than the taser? 3 A No. 4 It looked like the same thing? 5 A Just a different color. 6 Different color. So the taser kind of 7 looks like a gun? 8 A Yes. 9 Only it was yellow and black? 10 A Yes. ll And then a string thing came out of it? 12 A Yes. 13 And the gun, what color was that? 14 A Black. 15 Was the officer still where? 17 A He was just about to get out. He was 18 opening up the door. 19 Okay. So you saw the officer opening up 20 the door? 2l A Yesthe car? 23 A Yes, but he waited until after he fired 24 the shot. 25 Let's back up then. You saw the gun and Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 123 1 do you know what hand the officer had it in? 2 A No. 3 You said that he fired a shot? 4 A Yes. 5 Where was the boy who had been at the car, 6 where was he when the shots were fired? 7 A He was at the apartment complexes. 8 Was he running into the apartment complex 9 when the shot was fired from the gun? 10 A Yes. 11 Okay. So did you ever see or hear that 12 gun being shot while the boy was up at the car? 13 A Yes. 14 Okay. So let's back up. You see a taser 15 being fired and then you see the gun? 16 A Yes. 17 And the first shot of the gun, where was 18 the boy when it was first shot? 19 A He was still at the car. 20 Still at the car? 21 A (Nods head.) 22 And then what happened? 23 A Then that's when he took off. 24 He took off. 25 A Yes. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 124 1 And then where did he go? 2 A He ran down the street. 3 So when you say he ran down the street, 4 was that Canfield Drive? 5 A Yes. 6 And did he run west towards West 7 Florissant or east towards Northwinds Apartments? 8 A East. 9 So the officer got out of the car? 10 A Yes. 11 Do you remember talking to the police 12 about what you had seen? 13 A Yes. 14 Okay. And did the officer have any 15 trouble getting out of his car? 16 A No. 17 Okay. Do you remember telling them that 18 the officer opened the door to shoot and then got 19 out of the car? 20 A Yes, I remember. 21 So where was the officer when he first 22 shot the gun? 23 A He was still in the car. 24 In the car? 25 A (Nods head.) Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 125 1 So when you said that he opened the door 2 to shoot, when he first shot the gun, was the car 3 door open or closed? 4 A Open. 5 It was what? 6 A Open. 7 Open. So he had opened his door? 8 A (Nods head.) 9 And Michael Brown was still at the 10 vehicle? 11 A Yes. 12 Okay. Did he open his door all the way? 13 A Yes, he opened it. 14 So was Michael Brown hit by the door when 15 the door opensaid Michael Brown, you know that's 18 Michael Brown, right? 19 A Yes. 20 Okay. So was he farther away from the 21 vehicle when the door came open? 22 A He was like almost towards the back. 23 So he had started moving at that point? 24 A Yes. 25 And he was close to the rear of the FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 126 1 vehicle? 2 A Yes. 3 And so you, when the officer fired the 4 gun, was he still sitting in the driver's seat? 5 A Yes, he was still sitting. 6 So he would of had to turn around, if he 7 was shooting at Michael Brown and he was close to 8 the rear of his vehicle, did he have to lean out and 9 turn around? 10 A Yes, he was halfway out. 11 Halfway out of the car? 12 A (Nods head.) 13 And so after that shot, did you see where 14 that shot wentWhat happened then? 19 A That's when he kept running. 20 So Michael Brown kept running? 21 A I guess. 22 Okay. Don't guess. I thought that's what 23 you said he kept running. I'm just trying to repeat 24 it because I want to make sure they hear you. 25 A After that first shot I turned to look Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 127 1 away, I thought everything, he had him in custody, I 2 guess, or whatever. 3 So after that first shot, you turned away 4 and you didn't watch it? 5 A Yeah, I didn't watch it. 6 Okay. Was there something that was going 7 on that drew your attention away from what was going 8 on outsidethat you turned away? 11 A Because I didn't hear no more gunshots 12 until, actually, I sat down and then I heard some 13 more. 14 All right. So when you say you turned 15 away, let's back up. When you were looking out the 16 sliding glass door, were you sitting down or 17 standing up? 18 A Standing up. 19 And so when you turned away, did you 20 actually turn your body away from this or did you 21 just not look? 22 A I turned my body away. 23 Did you then go back into the living room? 24 A You say what? 25 Did you stay in the living room? FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 128 1 A Yes. 2 Did you go sit down? 3 A Yes. 4 All right. So once you turned away, now 5 at this point you said, you have gotten to the point 6 where you said you heard one gunshot? 7 A Uh?huh. 8 And you saw the officer shooting his gun 9 as Michael Brown was running away? 10 A Yes. 11 Or he was near the back of the vehicle? 12 A He was running, yes, he was. 13 Can you tell me where Michael Brown was, 14 how his body was when you saw that first gunshot, 15 was he facing the officer, was he facing away from 16 the officer? 17 A He was facing away. 18 Facing away. Had he started to run when 19 you saw that first gunshot? 20 A Yes. 21 Okay. And then you turned away from the 22 window and you sat back down? 23 A Yes. 24 Did you hear anything after that? 25 A Yes. FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 129 1 What did you hear? 2 A I heard several more gunshots. 3 Okay. Were those was there a pause 4 between any of those gunshots? 5 A No. 6 And you said several or seven, I want to 7 make sure? 8 A Several. 9 Several? 10 A Uh?huh. 11 Can you in your head imagine them and see 12 if you can tell me how many you think there were? 13 A Four to five. 14 Okay. And then what, if anything, did you 15 do after you heard those four to five shots? 16 A I stood there and watch him get on his 17 walkie?talkie thing and I saw more officers come. 18 Okay. So I got to come up here so I can 19 hear you. You still what? 20 A I stood right there and I saw him get on 21 his little radio thing. 22 So let's go back. So at some point you 23 went back to the window? 24 A Yes. 25 When the four or five shots went off, were FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 130 you still on the couch or were you up at the window? 2 A I was still on the couch. 3 Okay. So when you went back to the 4 window, what did you see, was it still going on? 5 A No. 6 Okay. What did you see when you looked 7 back out the window? 8 A I saw him laying down. He was already on 9 the radio. 10 You said you saw him laying down, so would ll that be Michael Brown? 12 A Yes. 13 And he was bleeding? 14 A Yes. 15 Can you use the pointer and show me where 16 he was laying down? 17 A (Indicating.) 18 Was he me the street, or in the grass or 19 on the sidewalk? 20 A In the street. 2l Where was the officer? 22 A He was over him. 23 Over him? 24 A Uh?huh. 25 So standing over him? FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 131 1 A Yes. 2 What was he doing? 3 A He was like on his radio thing. 4 So you pointed to your shoulder, was he 5 talking, did it look like he was talking on a radio 6 on a shoulder? 7 A Yes. 8 Could you hear what he was saying? 9 A No. 10 Did you hear Michael Brown and the 11 officer, other than the scream that you heard, did 12 you ever hear them say anything? 13 A No. 14 Did you ever hear any other screams? 15 A No. 16 When you say the officer was standing over 17 him and he was talking on the radio, did the officer 18 still have his gun? 19 A Yes, he still had it out. 20 Where was it? 21 A In his right hand. 22 So it was still out? 23 A Yes. 24 Was he shooting it? 25 A No. FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unywagorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 132 1 After you turned away, after you saw the 2 first gunshot, did you ever see the officer fire the 3 gun? 4 A No. 5 So when you looked, when you said that his 6 gun was out, can you stand up for me and show them 7 how it was? 8 A How the officer was? 9 Yeah. 10 A He was like this on his thing. 11 (indicating) 12 So the gun was like down at his side? 13 A Yes. 14 Was it pointed at anybody? 15 A No. 16 Okay. You can sit back down. 17 Now, at some point you were talking 18 to the police you told them that you saw, well, 19 initially when you were first interviewed you said, 20 and I want to make sure I get it right. You said I 21 saw a man with his hands in a police car trying to 22 snatch it away and then he got away. Do you 23 remember saying that? 24 A Uh?huh. 25 What do you mean by that. That he was FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 133 1 trying to snatch it away, I don't know what you mean 2 by that? 3 A Like he was trying to prevent him from 4 grabbing, keep grabbing his arm. 5 Okay. So let's clarify. When you say I 6 saw a man with his hands in a police car trying to 7 snatch it away, who was trying to snatch something 8 away? 9 A The deceased. 10 Michael Brown? 11 A Uh?huh. 12 What was he trying to snatch away? 13 A His hand. 14 So he was trying to get his hand out of 15 the police car? 16 A Yes. 17 Did you see anything in his hand? 18 A No. 19 Okay. And then you also said in the 20 second, now you, last week you actually met with the 21 FBI and the attorney and gave them another 22 statement, right? 23 A Yes. 24 And that was downtown at their FBI 25 headquarters? FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 134 A Yes. 2 Or did they come to your house? 3 A Downtown. 4 Downtown. Okay. And you said at that 5 time you said the officer, it was like the officer 6 was trying to pull him into the car, did you say 7 that just last week? 8 A Yes. 9 So describe what you saw that makes you 10 say that? ll A Okay. Cause I saw him pulling away so. 12 So you saw who pulling away? 13 A The deceased. 14 Okay. And why is it that you say you saw 15 the officer was trying to pull him into the car? 16 A Because I saw him going in like a back and l7 forth motion. 18 A back and forth motion? 19 A Yes. 20 So did you ever see the officer, other 2l than the time you saw the taser and then saw the 22 gun, did you ever see the officer's hands? 23 A No. 24 So when you say a back and forth motion, 25 what was moving back and forth? Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 135 1 A Um, the 2 The arms? 3 A The decease's body. 4 The decease's body? 5 A Yes. 6 Was it moving forward and back, or was it 7 from side to side or both? 8 A Forward and back. 9 Forward and back? 10 A Yes. 11 And you said already that you saw a hand, 12 one of his hands was inside the police vehicle? 13 A Yes. 14 And one was on the police vehicle? 15 A Yes. 16 Okay. And you said you saw the police 17 officer grabbing, I couldn't understand what you 18 said, and then you said he was reaching for 19 something and he was trying to open the door. 20 A Yes. 21 So let's go back. I couldn't hear on your 22 taped statement because you are so quiet you said 23 you saw the officer grabbing. Do you remember 24 saying that? 25 A Yes. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 136 1 What did you see the officer grabbing? 2 A I just saw him reach. 3 Pardon me? 4 A I just saw him reaching. 5 You saw him reaching? 6 A Yes. 7 With his arm or hand? 8 A Hand. 9 Reaching what? 10 A To his side, right side. 11 To his right. So you could see officer's 12 hand reaching to his right side? 13 A I could see his arm. 14 Yeah. You said the officer tried to open 15 the door and then he shot his taser. So when you 16 say he tried to open his door, was, I don't want to 17 assume something, I don't know if that means he 18 couldn't open the door, or he did open the door, but 19 what do you mean when you say he tried to open the 20 door? 21 A He did, he opened it. That's when he 22 started to open it. 23 Okay. Did anything prevent him from 24 opening the door? 25 A No. FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 137 1 When he tried to open the door, was 2 Michael Brown still right up against the car? 3 A No, he was towards the end. 4 It was towards the end. Okay. So Michael 5 Brown, you already said was backed a little bit away 6 toward the back of the vehicle? 7 A Yes. 8 And you also said that one of the things, 9 one of the reasons why you turned away is you assume 10 that Michael Brown would have been in custody and in 11 handcuffs? 12 A Yes. 13 Why did you assume that? 14 A Because I didn't hear any more shots. 15 Okay. So when you turned away, you turned 16 away after the first gunshot? 17 A Yes. 18 And then you said you heard four more 19 shots? 20 A Yes. 21 Was there any pause between the first 22 gunshot and the four more shots? 23 A Yes. 24 Okay. Do you know how long it would have 25 been? FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 138 1 A About five seconds. 2 About five seconds? 3 A (Nods head.) 4 So when you say you turned away and you 5 didn't look because you assume that Mike Brown or 6 assume that that guy would have been in custody in 7 handcuffs, did you assume that before you heard the 8 four gunshots or after? 9 A Uh, before. 10 Before. And then you hear four gunshots 11 and then you are went back and looked out the 12 window? 13 A Yes. 14 And that's when you saw him on the ground? 15 A Yes. 16 When Michael Brown was moving away from 17 the police officer, did you ever see his hands up in 18 the air like this in this motion? (indicating) 19 A I don't remember. 20 Okay. And so you don't remember? 21 A (Nods head.) 22 All right. Did you ever see Michael Brown 23 doing anything with his hands around this area of 24 his midsection? 25 A No. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 139 1 No, you didn't? 2 No. 3 Because you are shaking your head, no, I 4 don't want to put, I don't want to put this in your 5 mouth, you tell medon't remember, remember I said the correct answer 7 is, I don't remember or I don't know, okay? 8 A Uh?huh. 9 Did you recall seeing anything like that 10 where his hands were somewhere in this area of his 11 body doing anything? 12 A No, I don't. 13 Did you ever see Michael Brown running? 14 A Yes. 15 Okay. So can you describe the way he was 16 running, was he running with his arms at his sides 17 or was he running with his arms outstretched in any 18 way? 19 A He was running to the side. 20 Arms to the side? 21 A Yes. 22 And so when you saw him running, was he 23 running away from the officer? 24 A Yes. 25 Was he running fast or was he kind of Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 140 1 jogging or was he? 2 A When I saw him he was just starting to 3 run, so I don't know. 4 MS. WHIRLEY: I didn't hear that. 5 MS. ALIZADEH: When he first took off, is 6 that what you said? 7 A Yes. 8 . His speed, how 9 fast did you see him run or was it like a jog? 10 A It was like a jog. 11 Okay. 12 MS. ALIZADEH: And that was when he first 13 took off? 14 A Yes. 15 (By Ms. Alizadeh) So whether he stopped or 16 slowed down or got faster, you stopped looking at 17 that point? 18 A Yes. 19 Is that right? 20 A Yes. 21 MS. ALIZADEH: I don't think I have any 22 other questions. Sheila? 23 (By Ms. Whirley) You said you have never 24 seen anyone tased before, right? 25 A Yes. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 141 1 What made you think he was being tased? 2 Um, because I saw like 3 You got to talk loud enough for me to 4 hear. 5 A I said because I saw him reaching for 6 something and then I saw a metal string come out. 7 You sought the officer reach for something 8 and you saw a metal string come out? 9 A Yes. 10 Okay. When Mike Brown ran away, you said 25 A 12 the officer, 11 he was kind of jogging as he is running away from 13 A No. 14 Did you hear a shot fired at that point? 15 A It got silent. 16 I'm sorry? 17 A It was silent. 18 It was silent? 19 A Uh?huh. 20 What do you mean? 21 A After the first shot, I didn't hear no 22 more shots until like five seconds later. 23 Okay. So the first shot, what was 24 happening when you heard the first shot? He was trying to exit the was the officer shooting at him? vehicle. FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 142 1 He was what? 2 A Trying to exit the vehicle. 3 Where was Mike Brown when the officer is 4 trying to exhibit the vehicle? 5 A Towards the end. 6 Towards what? 7 A The end of the car. 8 He was trying to get away from the car? 9 A Yes. 10 And the officer was exiting the vehicle 11 and shot? 12 A Yes. 13 What direction did he shoot at? 14 A Like he had, he was halfway out the car. 15 So he turned like towards his way to shoot. 16 Turn towards Michael Brown? 17 Yes. 18 He was shooting at Mike Brown as Mike 19 Brown is running away from the car? 20 A Yes, as he's starting. 21 Okay. And then you didn't hear any other 22 shots? 23 A No. 24 And that's when you stopped looking? 25 A Yes. FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 143 1 When you saw Mike Brown at the driver's 2 side window, when you said you thought he was trying 3 to get away? 4 A Yes. 5 Could you see them pretty clearly? 6 A Yeah, I only saw the side of the officer's 7 face. 8 I'm sorry? 9 A I only saw the side of the officer's face 10 and I saw the back of Michael Brown. 11 You could see the back of Mike Brown and 12 the side of the officer's face? 13 A Yes. 14 Could you see their hands, you could see 15 Mike Brown's hands? 16 A Yes. 17 Could you see the officer's hands? 18 A No, I just saw his arms. 19 You saw his arms. Did he have on sleeves? 20 A He had short sleeves. 21 Short sleeves. So you could clearly see 22 his sleeves? 23 A Yes. 24 You could tell he was white? 25 A Yes. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 144 1 How far do you think you were aware from 2 them, anyway to tell me? 3 A I don't know. 4 Do you have pretty good eyesight? 5 A Yes. 6 You don't wear glasses or anything? 7 A No. 8 So you saw Mike Brown's hands, was Mike 9 Brown striking the officer? 10 A No. 11 When you saw him he wasn't hitting the 12 officer? 13 A No. 14 You never saw him with a ba11ed up fist or 15 anything? 16 A No. 17 Did you see him reach in for the officer's 18 gun? 19 A No. 20 You never saw him reach for the officer's 21 gun? 22 A No. 23 Were you o1ose enough to see what was 24 going on in the car? 25 A No. FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 145 1 You were not? 2 No. 3 But you were close enough to see, what 4 could you see? 5 A Well, I saw him reaching and I saw 6 You saw who reaching? 7 A Mike, and then I saw the officer reaching 8 for his taser, that's all I saw. 9 So you could see inside the car, you 10 thought he was reaching for his taser? 11 A But I can barely see. 12 You can see the officer reaching for 13 something? 14 A Yes. 15 Did you see Mike's hands go to where the 16 officer's hands were reaching? 17 A No. 18 Were you in a position to see? 19 A Yes. 20 MS. WHIRLEY: I think that's it for me. 21 Questions? 22 At any 23 point did you see his whole top of his body, Mike 24 Brown's, go inside the police vehicle? 25 A No. FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unvwagorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 146 1 Do you know what mace 2 looks like? 3 A What? 4 Macecorrect? 8 A Yes. 9 So you didn't see 10 anybody, a man down in the grass area in a green 11 shirt, or did you? 12 A No, I didn't see nobody. 13 You didn't see anybody 14 out there, no people? 15 A I saw one person on the sidewalk with a 16 black shirt. 17 No, I'm sorry, what? 18 A I saw one person on the sidewalk with a 19 black shirt. 2O A_person on the sidewalk, 21 can you show me where on the sidewalk that person 22 was? 23 A He was right here. (indicating) 24 What about your side of 25 the street, by your building? FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 147 1 A There was nobody. 2 There was nobody there? 3 A Nobody. 4 You know for sure or 5 didn't see them? 6 A I know for sure. 7 Thank you. 8 MS. ALTZADEH: Did you notice a white lady 9 out there? 10 A No. 11 MS. ALIZADEH: Is it that you didn't 12 notice or you say I looked and there wasn't anybody 13 out there. 14 A I looked. 15 MS. ALIZADEH: Nobody out there? 16 A Nobody out there. 17 . When the 18 officer exited the car, the vehicle, could you see 19 his face? 20 A Yes. 21 Was there any coloration 22 to his face? 23 A No, he was like a regular white guy. 24 MS. WHIRLEY: I didn't hear you. 25 A He had a beard and a mustache. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 148 1 MS. WHIRLEY: You think he had a beard and 2 a mustache. 3 A Yes. 4 MS. ALIZADEH: What color was his beard 5 and mustache. 6 A Like a yellow?ish color. 7 MS . ALIZADEH: Huh? 8 A Like a yellow?ish color. 9 MS. ALIZADEH: I am just wanting to know 10 was it like blond, or was it brown or dark? 11 A It was a blond color. 12 MS. ALIZADEH: Blond colored. 13 A Yes. 14 MS. ALIZADEH: Was it a full beard, like 15 full beard like this guy kind of has, Number 1, or 16 was it more of a partial beard like the guy in the 17 blue shirt? 18 A It was like a partial beard. 19 MS. ALIZADEH: Kind of like goatee and 20 mustache. 21 A It wasn't a goatee, it was just 22 MS. ALIZADEH: I describe it as a goatee, 23 I don't know, but it was not the full beard. 24 A Yeah, it wasn't full beard. 25 MS. WHIRLEY: Did his face look injured. FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 149 1 A No 2 I have one more question. 3 When he exited the vehicle, did you 4 see his lips moving at all, you know, telling Mike 5 Brown to do anything? 6 A I wasn't paying attention. 7 That's when you left okay. 8 . I have one 9 more question. When you say at the very beginning 10 you said you heard screaming, did it appear that 11 there were two people screaming or was it just one 12 voice you heard. 13 A I heard one voice. 14 One voice. 15 A Yes. 16 MS. WHIRLEY: You couldn't make out what 17 the screaming was, could you? 18 A No. 19 MS. WHIRLEY: Can you demonstrate what the 20 screaming sounded like? 21 A It was like 22 MS. ALIZADEH: That's going to actually 23 require he actually raise his voice, I don't know. 24 MS. WHIRLEY: That's exactly why I asked 25 the question. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 150 1 A It was like an kind of scream. 2 MS. WHIRLEY: Like what? 3 A Like an kind of scream. 4 MS. WHIRLEY: Like 5 A Yes. 6 In 7 regards to the scream, did you hear that only one 8 time or was it like 9 A Once. 10 Huh? 11 A Once. 12 Once, just one. 13 A Yes. 14 MS. ALIZADEH: Anyone else. Is there 15 anything that we didn't ask you, that you 16 remember about that is important? 17 A No. 18 MS. ALIZADEH: Okay. When the police talk 19 to you, did you feel that they were respectful or 20 were they rude? 21 A Respectful. 22 MS. ALIZADEH: Did anybody ever get in 23 your face or tell you that you were lying and stop 24 lying? 25 A No. FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unvwagorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 151 1 MS. ALIZADEH: And you've had two 2 interviews, right? 3 A Yes. 4 MS. WHIRLEY: Did you talk to anybody in 5 the apartment complex about what happened? 6 A No besides my dad and his girlfriend. 7 MS. WHIRLEY: Your dad. You said you 8 didn't know, there is a lot of young people I 9 understand that live in the complex, but you had not 10 become friends with any of them? 11 A No. 12 MS. WHIRLEY: You didn't hang out with 13 anybody? 14 A No. 15 MS. WHIRLEY: Or talk to anybody about 16 what happened? 17 A Huh?uh. 18 MS. WHIRLEY: Even when you went back 19 later to visit with your dad? 20 A No. 21 Ms. WHIRLEY: Okay. All right. 22 (End of the testimony of 23 24 MS. ALIZADEH: It is October 27th, this is 25 Kathi Alizadeh, it is 12:11 p.m. We just took a FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 152 1 little bit of a break so we could print?out some 2 transcripts because the grand jurors have asked to 3 listen to the recorded statement of 4 that was made to the FBI on September 30th. So we 5 have that disc queued, it is about 22 minutes. We 6 were going to try to play that before lunch, we 7 didn't get to it because we were busy making the 8 copies. You all still want to start that or do you 9 want lunch. It is not out there right now. So go 10 ahead and start this? 11 The only other thing, and Sheila and I had 12 a discussion about this before now is, she and I are 13 going to kind of wing how we are doing this, after 14 testified and she had come here with 15 who she said was her godson and were 16 in the waiting room here and testified after 17 she did. 18 So when we walked out and we were 19 kind of saying goodbye to them and they were getting 20 ready to walk out I made the comment 21 about how it is too bad there weren't surveillance 22 cameras in the complex. 23 And then said that she had video 24 the entire thing on her phone and I said, what 25 portion, what part did you video the whole thing I FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 153 1 said the shooting, you have the shooting taped on 2 your phone. And she said yes, but I dropped the 3 phone in the toilet. 4 MS. WHIRLEY: Then I asked her, you know, 5 where is the phone, thinking we might be able to 6 recover it with forensic examination. She said it 7 is in the junk yard. She got so mad she threw it 8 away. 9 MS. ALIZADEH: This is information that 10 I've never known about. 11 MS. WHIRLEY: Neither have I. 12 MS. ALIZADEH: And Sheila has never known 13 about this, and from my observation of her godson 14 he was, this was news to him as well 15 because he asked her where is the phone and, you 16 know, he seemed to indicate that he had not heard 17 that information before. 18 So I thought it was important that you 19 know that. 20 MS. WHIRLEY: I agree. 21 MS. ALIZADEH: Sheila and I kind of 22 unwittingly became witness to that statement. I 23 don't think it is appropriate that we testify as 24 witnesses, but what we discussed is that knowing 25 that there was a statement made like that. FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 154 1 If you desire we can bring 2 back in and question her under oath about whether, 3 about that and you can ask her whatever questions 4 you want, but I wanted you to have that information 5 so that you could make a decision amongst yourselves 6 about whether you want to have her come back in and 7 ask her about that. 8 So you guys can talk about that during 9 your lunch break and for now we will go ahead and 10 start the pass out the transcripts. 11 Did she mention was the 12 recorder, was it on when the FBI was there or was it 13 just sitting on her counter? 14 MS. ALIZADEH: My recollection and this is 15 what you all are going to have to discuss amongst 16 yourselves what she testified to, I believe I asked 17 her if she was wearing the camcorder when the 18 shooting occurred, and she said no. I think she 19 said it was in her house, she said that during the 20 first interview she was in her pajamas when they 21 came. 22 She said that. 23 MS. ALIZADEH: You all are going to have 24 to look at your notes. I don't want to represent 25 she said something that maybe I'm wrong about that. FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unvwagorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 155 1 I did ask her if she had the camera on during the 2 shooting and she said no. But whether when she was being interviewed by the 4 officers, I recall something about that, you all are 5 going to have to talk amongst yourselves about that. 6 So no more questions? 7 MS. ALIZADEH: I don't know that I can 8 answer, I don't want to characterize the witness' 9 testimony or clarify it because that's something, 10 that will be my interpretation and I don't want to 11 have to do that. I will tell you that I think that 12 there was talk about that if it is helpful, we can 13 go back and, of course, we have the testimony on 14 audio, we also will eventually have a transcript of 15 it as well. 16 If you want to make a note that once those 17 transcripts are available to me, that I can give 18 them to you and you can go back and look and see 19 exactly what she said in regard to that, all right. 20 I'm not being rude, I just need to have 21 you guys decide that. 22 You ready? 23 (Playing of the audio recording of 24 .) 25 MS. WHIRLEY: We are stopping this FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 156 1 recording of at one minute and 56 2 seconds and we will resume after lunch. This is 3 October the 27th, 2014. The statement is actually 4 approximately 33 minutes and some seconds, so we 5 will resume it after lunch, thank you. 6 (Lunch recess taken) 7 MS. WHIRLEY: It is October the 27th, 8 2014. Approximately l:l7 p.m. We are going to 9 resume the recording of . We stopped 10 at about 2156. It looks like 2158, so it inched up 11 a couple seconds. I don't think they're talking 12 yet. I'm going to start it and then I'm going to 13 find when they resumed the conversation. l4 (Resume playing of the audio recording of 15 -) 16 (End of the audio recording of 17 18 (Grand Jury Exhibit Number 55 19 marked for identification.) 20 MS. WHIRLEY: It is October 27th, 2014 at 21 approximately 1:35 p.m. I'm getting ready to play 22 the video recording, I'm sorry, the audio recorded 23 statement of . You guys heard from her 24 earlier today. It is identified as Grand Jury 25 Exhibit Number 55. There's two transcripts that Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 157 1 passed out because as she testified, she turned off 2 the recording and then they started recording again. 3 I did not know exactly how long her statement is, it 4 is not very long at all. So with that 5 MS. ALIZADEH: The transcript, they're 6 both dated August 26th, but the one, the first one 7 is 9:32. 8 (Playing of recorded interview of 9 .) 10 MS. ALIZADEH: This is Kathi Alizadeh, it 11 is about 2:07. And I told you that I had a 12 conversation this weekend with . We 13 had talked about her coming in to complete her 14 testimony today. I asked her to be here by 1:00 and 15 I said if you can be here by 12:30 that would be 16 great, and here it is ten after 2:00, she's not 17 here. 18 I did call the number I have for her, I 19 got her answering message and I left her a message 20 to call me about trying to reschedule. So I don't 21 have any other live witnesses for today. Based upon 22 what you all have told me before, told us, I have 23 transcripts for two statements that were done by a 24 woman whose already testified woman who has already 25 testified, FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unthgorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 158 1 There was an interview of her on 2 August 9th, the day of the incident at 4:00 p.m. 3 That interview was done by St. Louis County 4 Detective and lasted two minutes and 23 5 seconds. So I have this transcript I can pass out 6 to you. You guys can look at that right now if you 7 would like. 8 And then there's a transcript of an 9 interview of that's done on 10 August 16th, 2014 at 11:43, I'm sorry, 11:34 a.m. by 11 Special Agent and Special Agent 12 and so this interview was 24 minutes 13 and 26 seconds so I will pass those transcripts out 14 to you. 15 If you guys just want to take the rest, I 16 know we're breaking at 2:30 today. So if you guys 17 want to take the rest of that time to review those 18 transcripts. And then if you have any need to hear 19 those statements, those prior statements, we can 20 play those at another time, or if you have a need to 21 review testimony after having 22 reviewed her, the transcripts of her prior 23 statements, we can get that testimony, either play 24 it back audio wise or we can get you transcripts of 25 those as well. All right. FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314~241-6750 unvwagorepen3ncon1 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 159 1 So at this time we'll cease the recording probably. We plan on reoessing by 2:30 today. So DUN at this time we'll just call the record quit for you Lb all to review this until it is time to go, all right. mm (End of Grand Jury Volume XVIGore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 160 1 2 State of Missouri 3 SS. 4 County of St. Louis 5 I, a Licensed Certified Court 6 Reporter by the Supreme Court in and for the State 7 of Missouri, duly commissioned, qualified and 8 authorized to administer oaths and to certify to 9 depositions, do hereby certify that pursuant to 10 Notice in the civil cause now pending and 11 undetermined in the County of St. Louis, State of 12 Missouri. 13 The said witness, being of sound mind and being 14 by the grand jury first carefully examined and duly 15 cautioned and sworn to testify to the truth, the 16 whole truth, and nothing but the truth in the case 17 aforesaid, thereupon testified as is shown in the 18 foregoing transcript, said testimony being by me 19 reported in shorthand and caused to be transcribed 20 into typewriting, and that the foregoing page 21 correctly sets forth the testimony of the 22 aforementioned witness, together with the questions 23 propounded by counsel and grand jurors thereto, and 24 is in all respects a full, true, correct and 25 complete transcript of the questions propounded to Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 161 1 and the answers given by said witness. I further certify that the foregoing pages DUN contain a true and accurate reproduction of the Ab proceedings. I further certify that I am not of counsel or mm attorney for either of the parties to said suit, not 7 related to nor interested in any of the parties or 8 their attorneysGore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 162 COURT MEMO MELON State of Missouri v. Darren Wilson mm 8 CERTIFICATE OF OFFICER AND 9 STATEMENT OF DEPOSITION CHARGES 10 11 DEPOSITION OF Grand Jury Volume XVI 12 13 10/27/2014 14 Name and address of person or firm having custody of 15 the original transcript: 16 17 St. Louis County Prosecuting Attorney's Office 18 100 S. Central Ave., 2nd Floor 19 Clayton, MO 63105 20 21 22 23 24 25 Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 163 1 ORIGINAL TRANSCRIPT TAXED IN FAVOR OF: DUN St. Louis County Prosecuting Attorney's Office Mb 100 S. Central Ave., 2nd Floor Clayton, MO 63105 mm TotalGore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 State of Missouri V. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XVI October 27, 2014 Page 164 1 Upon delivery of transcripts, the above 2 charges had not been paid. It is anticipated 3 that all charges will be paid in the normal course 4 of business. 5 GORE PERRY GATEWAY LIPA REPORTING COMPANY 6 515 Olive Street, Suite 700 7 St. Louis, Missouri 63101 8 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set 9 STATEMENT OF DEPOSITION CHARGES 10 my hand and seal on this day of 11 Commission expires 12 13 Notary Public FAX 314-241-6750 Gore Perry Reporting and Video 314-241-6750