Sentencing Memorandum

Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643 Filed 12/10/19 Page 1 of 19 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA UNITED STATES OF AMERICA v. Crim. No. 17-201-2 (ABJ) RICHARD W. GATES III, Defendant. GOVERNMENT’S MOTION FOR A DOWNWARD DEPARTURE AND MEMORANDUM IN AID OF SENTENCING Since entering a guilty plea in February 2018, the defendant, Richard W. Gates III, has provided the government with extraordinary assistance. He met with investigators more than fifty times, providing truthful information to the Special Counsel’s Office and several other prosecuting offices of the Department of Justice. He voluntarily surrendered his electronic devices with broad authorization for the government to image and search them. He gave sworn testimony in three federal criminal trials in the Eastern District of Virginia and the District of Columbia. And he has pledged to continue to cooperate with the government after his sentencing in several ongoing matters. In short, under exceedingly difficult circumstances and under intense public scrutiny, Gates has worked earnestly to provide the government with everything it has asked of him and has fulfilled all obligations under his plea agreement. Accordingly, consistent with its promise to Gates in his plea agreement, the United States, through the United States Attorney for the District of Columbia, submits this memorandum in aid of sentencing and respectfully moves for a downward departure, pursuant to the United States Sentencing Guidelines (“Guidelines” or “U.S.S.G.”) § 5K1.1, and does not oppose Gates’ request for probation. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643 Filed 12/10/19 Page 2 of 19 PROCEDURAL HISTORY This section reviews the charges filed against Gates in this Court, in the District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia, and his subsequent guilty plea. I. District of Columbia Indictment On October 17, 2017, a federal grand jury in the District of Columbia returned an eight- count indictment in the instant case. Indictment, ECF No. 13. The conduct charged in the Indictment related to Manafort’s and Gates’ failure to register under the Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA) for their work as agents of the Government of Ukraine, the Party of Regions, and Ukrainian President Victor Yanukovych, as well as their failure to report the income earned from that work and the overseas accounts in which those funds were maintained. Manafort and Gates also later concealed that work by making false statements to the United States Department of Justice, National Security Division’s FARA Unit. The various charged schemes involved money laundering and tax fraud, as well as a series of lies, by both Manafort and Gates, to the professionals hired by Manafort to assist with his finances and government filings, including his bookkeepers, tax preparers, and lawyers. II. Eastern District of Virginia Indictment On February 22, 2018, a federal grand jury in the Eastern District of Virginia returned a 32-count Superseding Indictment charging Manafort and Gates. Gates was charged with: (a) assisting Manafort in the filing of Manafort’s false tax returns as to income and the existence of Manafort’s overseas accounts from 2010 to 2014 (Counts Six through Ten); (b) subscribing false tax returns as to Gates’ income and the existence of his own overseas accounts from 2010 to 2014 (Counts Fifteen through Nineteen); (c) filing a false amended tax return in 2013 (Count Twenty); (d) failing to file Foreign Bank Account Reports (FBARs) in the years 2011, 2012 and 2013 for 2 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643 Filed 12/10/19 Page 3 of 19 his own overseas accounts (Counts Twenty-One, Twenty-Two, Twenty-Three); and (e) various bank fraud and bank fraud conspiracy counts (Counts Twenty-Four to Thirty-Two). United States v. Manafort and Gates, 1:18-cr-83 (TSE) (ECF No. 9). Prior to pursuing charges in the Eastern District of Virginia, the Special Counsel’s Office asked Manafort and Gates whether they would waive venue and allow the additional charges to be added to the existing District of Columbia Indictment. Gates agreed to waive venue. Manafort, as was his right, declined. In light of Manafort’s decision, the government proceeded in the Eastern District of Virginia against both defendants. As with the Indictment filed in the District of Columbia, the tax and FBAR charges related to income earned in Ukraine, maintained in overseas accounts, and transferred to the United States to purchase luxury items and real estate, and to improve Manafort’s homes in Bridgehampton, New York, and Palm Beach, Florida, among others. The Indictment also alleged that Manafort and Gates disguised, for Manafort’s benefit, more than $10 million in income transferred from overseas accounts by falsely characterizing that income as loans. The Indictment added substantive tax charges relating to Gates’ false personal income tax filings from 2010 to 2014. During that time period, Gates wired more than $3 million from various overseas accounts to accounts he controlled—some of which he stole from Manafort, totaling several hundred thousand dollars. Gates failed to report this income and the overseas accounts he controlled. Additionally, the Indictment charged Manafort and Gates in nine bank fraud/bank fraud conspiracies, involving five loan applications to three separate financial institutions. Four of these loans related to properties that Manafort purchased or improved with funds from his overseas accounts. As such, Manafort was able to access the overseas income he invested in these 3 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643 Filed 12/10/19 Page 4 of 19 properties, and for which he did not pay taxes, by using the property as collateral. Manafort (or his son-in-law) were the sole beneficiaries of the four loans that were approved; Gates did not receive any proceeds. III. Guilty Plea and Cooperation Agreement On February 23, 2018, less than four months after his initial indictment in the instant case, Gates pled guilty, under a plea agreement, to a two-count Superseding Criminal Information. ECF No. 195. Count One of the Information charged Gates with Conspiracy, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 371; the objects of the conspiracy were tax fraud in violation of 26 U.S.C. § 7206(1), FBAR crimes in violation of 31 U.S.C. §§ 5312, 5322(b), and a FARA violation, including making false statements to the Justice Department, in violation of 22 U.S.C. §§ 612, 618. Gates’ specific conduct underlying the charges was summarized in the Statement of the Offense attached to his plea agreement. ECF No. 206. During his allocution, Gates admitted that he caused millions of dollars of Manafort’s income to be wired from offshore accounts for goods, services, and real estate purchased for Manafort; that Gates helped conceal that income and the related purchases, and the offshore accounts themselves; that Gates helped Manafort hide millions of dollars of other income by characterizing it as “loans”; that Gates lied to Manafort’s bookkeeper and tax preparers about the payments from overseas and the existence of the bank accounts from which the money was transferred; that Gates engaged in extensive lobbying activities in the United States on behalf of Ukraine and failed to register for this work as required; that Gates was involved in hiring two U.S. lobbying firms to represent Ukraine; and that in submissions to the Department of Justice in November 2016 and February 2017, Gates caused false and misleading statements to be made relating to the Ukraine work. Gates also admitted that as part of the lobbying scheme, he 4 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643 Filed 12/10/19 Page 5 of 19 was involved in hiring a group of former European leaders to lobby in the United States on behalf of Ukraine. Count Two charged Gates with making a false statement to the Federal Bureau of Investigation on February 1, 2018, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1001(a). This conduct involved Gates’ lies during his initial proffer sessions with the government at the start of the cooperation process, the effect of which was to provide false exculpatory information about Manafort. Specifically, the information supported a false defense that Manafort was not guilty of a FARA violation because he did not directly lobby any United States government officials. Gates lied about what Manafort and a senior lobbyist told him about their meeting with a Member of Congress in March 2013, affirmatively telling the government that Manafort told Gates that Ukraine was not discussed. After Gates was confronted with, among other things, a memorandum for President Yanukovych written by Gates and Manafort that summarized the meeting and explicitly noted that the meeting addressed Ukraine, Gates admitted the truth. Gates’ lie during the proffer was not without consequence. Because of the false statement, the government’s plea offer changed substantially, and in order to obtain a cooperation agreement, Gates had to plead guilty to the false statement count in addition to the conspiracy count. Gates’ criminal exposure under the resulting plea agreement increased from five to ten years. Gates agreed. Consistent with the Gates’ plea agreement, the government moved to dismiss without prejudice the charges filed against Gates in the Eastern District of Virginia. The court granted that motion on March 1, 2018. United States v. Gates, 1:18-cr-83 (TSE) (ECF No. 21). 5 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643 Filed 12/10/19 Page 6 of 19 FACTUAL BACKGROUND The Court is familiar with Gates’ substantial criminal conduct. For more than a decade, Gates engaged in a range of crimes at Manafort’s direction. Together, Manafort and Gates engaged in tax fraud, FBAR and FARA violations, money laundering, bank fraud, false statements to the government, and related conspiracies. Throughout their jointly undertaken crimes, Manafort was the principal and Gates was his employee. Although Manafort generally benefited either exclusively or principally from these crimes, Gates sometimes profited as well. Many of Manafort’s and Gates’ crimes related to their work for Ukraine, President Yanukovych, the Party of Regions, and the Opposition Bloc in Ukraine. Gates, at Manafort’s direction, helped conceal the nature of their work, the income derived from it, and the overseas accounts where those funds were maintained. Gates assisted in laundering funds to promote the scheme. From 2010 to 2014, Gates assisted Manafort in shielding more than $15 million of Manafort’s income from United States tax authorities. Manafort used that money to pay vendors for personal goods and services and to purchase and improve real estate. More than $65 million flowed through the overseas accounts that Manafort controlled and which Gates helped maintain and conceal. After Manafort’s work in Ukraine ended in 2015, Manafort needed liquidity and secured more than $25 million through bank fraud. Gates was an active participant in these schemes, although he received no money from the fraudulently procured loans. Gates did not commit crimes only with Manafort; on a far smaller scale, he also committed crimes on his own and for his own benefit. He failed to report more than $3 million in income on his tax returns over several years, failed to disclose his own foreign bank accounts, and stole approximately several hundred thousand dollars from Manafort’s overseas accounts. He engaged in mortgage fraud by overstating his income and the submitted false reimbursement vouchers to 6 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643 Filed 12/10/19 Page 7 of 19 employers. And Gates also engaged in an investment fraud scheme with a defendant charged in the Southern District of New York, Steven Brown, by drafting a letter that made false representations to promote that scheme. United States v. Brown, No. 16-cr-436 (KBW). Finally, as the Court is aware, Gates lied during proffer sessions early on in his cooperation, a crime to which he pled guilty. ARGUMENT I. Before Any Departure, A Sentence at the Low End of the Guidelines is Sufficient and not Greater than Necessary In order to determine an appropriate sentence, the Court first accurately calculates the defendant’s advisory Guidelines range, and then considers the various factors set forth under 18 U.S.C. § 3553(a). Gall v. United States, 552 U.S. 38, 49-50 (2007). The United States submits that in this case, in light of such factors, a sentence at the low end of the advisory Guidelines range—before any departure under Section 5K1.1—is appropriate. A. Gates’ Advisory Guidelines Range The Presentence Investigation Report (PSR)—with which both Gates and the government agree—has calculated the Gates’ total offense level at 23. See PSR at 13. This includes a base offense level of 24, pursuant to U.S.S.G. §2T1.1; an additional 2 levels for failure to report income of $10,000 or more from criminal activity, pursuant to U.S.S.G. § 2T1.1(b)(1); and an additional 2 levels for an offense involving sophisticated means, pursuant to U.S.S.G. §2T1.1(b)(2). Id. at 11-12. The PSR then subtracts 2 levels for Gates’ mitigating role, pursuant to U.S.S.G. §3B1.2(b). Id. at 12. The PSR agrees that Gates should receive a 3-level reduction for acceptance of responsibility, pursuant to U.S.S.G. §§ 3E1.1(a) and (b). Id. at 13. Gates has no criminal history. Accordingly, based on a total offense level of 23 and a criminal history category of I, his advisory Guidelines range is 46 to 57 months’ imprisonment. 7 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643 Filed 12/10/19 Page 8 of 19 B. Section 3553(a) Factors Under 18 U.S.C. § 3553(a), the goal of sentencing is to impose a sentence that is “sufficient, but not greater than necessary.” After calculating the defendant’s advisory Guidelines range, the Court considers factors under Section 3553(a), including the nature and circumstances of the offense; the history and characteristics of the defendant; and the need for the sentence to promote respect for the law, just punishment, and adequate deterrence. 18 U.S.C. § 3553(a). The nature and circumstances of the offenses demonstrate that Gates engaged in a pattern of deceit over an extended period of time. To be clear, the principal beneficiary of Gates’ criminal acts was Manafort, who directed Gates to lie, conceal, and commit fraud and money laundering to feed Manafort’s immense greed. But for a decade, Gates agreed and participated, and enabled Manafort to defraud the government on a massive scale. Furthermore, Gates enjoyed some personal financial benefit from his crimes. Gates’ history and characteristics suggest that he could easily have chosen to avoid criminal conduct. According to the PSR, Gates had a pleasant upbringing, earned Bachelor’s and Master’s degrees, and held positions with several companies before choosing to work for Manafort in 2006. At the same time, the crimes that Gates committed at Manafort’s direction appear inconsistent with his behavior before starting work as Manafort’s employee, or his conduct since pleading guilty in this case and assisting the government. Gates has no previous criminal convictions and served in the Army National Guard until his honorable discharge. As noted above, Gates accepted responsibility for his crimes within months of his indictment, and has been truthful and reliable since entering his plea. Finally, a sentence at the low end of the advisory Guidelines range is appropriate to promote respect for the law and ensure adequate deterrence. The government is confident that 8 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643 Filed 12/10/19 Page 9 of 19 there is no need in Gates’ case for specific deterrence. But a pre-departure sentence within the Guidelines would promote respect for laws requiring disclosures of foreign bank accounts and work for foreign principals, and would send a public message that extended financial crimes like Manafort’s and Gates’ merit a significant prison sentence. II. Motion for Downward Departure under Section 5K1.1 of the Guidelines The United States moves for a significant downward departure from Gates’ advisory Guidelines range under Section 5K1.1, based on his substantial assistance in the investigation and prosecution of others. Gates’ extensive cooperation is detailed here and in the accompanying sealed submission. A. Nature of Gates’ Cooperation i. Debriefings As noted, Gates initially lied to the government about Manafort’s involvement in a meeting with a lobbyist and a Member of Congress. Thereafter, however, Gates’ cooperation improved markedly, and the government believes he has been entirely candid about his and other’s criminality. His assistance has been substantial. Gates has met on more than fifty occasions with numerous prosecutors and investigators from a range of Department of Justice components, and his information has been used in more than a dozen search warrants. As described in the supplemental Motion being filed separately under seal, Gates has provided truthful and valuable information in a number of different ongoing matters. Furthermore, over the course of debriefings with the government, Gates has admitted his own participation in crimes in addition to those to which he pled guilty—several of which the government was unaware. These admissions included that Gates stole money from Manafort; 9 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643 Filed 12/10/19 Page 10 of 19 committed mortgage and credit card fraud; testified falsely during a civil deposition; and participated in investment fraud with a business associate. Most significantly, and early in his cooperation, Gates admitted that he had been living beyond his means and, to pay his expenses, he had stolen money from Manafort’s overseas accounts, amounting to approximately several hundred thousand dollars. At the time of this disclosure, the government was unaware that Gates had taken this money from Manafort. Gates also admitted that as part of a lawsuit involving the Pericles fund that Manafort operated for Oleg Deripaska, a Russian oligarch, at Manafort’s request, Gates provided false testimony about his relationship with a lawyer in Cyprus who worked with Manafort. In particular, Gates lied by testifying that Deripaska recommended the lawyer in question and that the Cypriot lawyer controlled the bank accounts at issue. Gates explained that he lied to make it appear that Deripaska had some control over the money that flowed through the overseas bank accounts, when in fact Manafort controlled those accounts. At the time of this disclosure, the government did not know the nature of Gates’ false testimony. Gates provided information about his involvement in additional frauds, including inflating vouchers to his employers and providing false statements to financial institutions to secure credit cards and mortgages for himself. The vouchers involved expenses such as meals that he would claim to be business-related, when they were not. With respect to his mortgage application, Gates had Manafort draft a letter overstating Gates’ income as part of a mortgage application. The government was not aware of these frauds at the time Gates admitted them. Finally, Gates acknowledged that, at the behest of defendant Steven Brown, he drafted documents that made false claims regarding the purchase of film rights, which Brown then used in the course of an investment fraud scheme to induce investment by others. Gates admitted that 10 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643 Filed 12/10/19 Page 11 of 19 the purpose of the documents was to mislead and were, in his words, “clearly fraudulent.” The Special Counsel’s Office learned of the fraudulent documentation from prosecutors involved in the Brown investigation. When questioned, Gates admitted he had written the materials and understood their purpose. Gates profited from several investments he made with Brown, with whom he invested in various film productions. Brown has since pled guilty in the Southern District of New York and been sentenced in connection with this scheme. United States v. Brown, No. 16cr-436 (KBW). ii. Sworn Testimony As the Court knows, as part of his cooperation, Gates has testified under oath in three federal criminal trials. 1. Testimony in the Eastern District of Virginia, United States v. Manafort, 1:18-cr-83 (TSE) Gates provided important testimony at Manafort’s trial in the Eastern District of Virginia (EDVA) over a three-day period from August 6-8, 2018. He provided a firsthand account as to each of the 18 tax, FBAR, and bank fraud/bank fraud conspiracy charges against Manafort, and his testimony was corroborated by numerous documents and was consistent with that of almost a dozen other witnesses. For the Court’s consideration, a transcript of Gates’ testimony in that case is enclosed as Exhibit 1. As the Court is aware, as part of the Eastern District of Virginia prosecution, Manafort was principally charged in two schemes: one involving tax fraud and FBAR violations and a second involving multiple bank fraud and bank fraud conspiracies. During his testimony, Gates detailed Manafort’s political work in Ukraine supporting the Party of Regions and Victor Yanukovych (and noting Manafort’s skill as a political strategist); the payment by Ukrainian oligarchs including Rinat Akhmetov, Serhiy Lyovochkin, and Boris 11 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643 Filed 12/10/19 Page 12 of 19 Kolesnikov to Manafort for his services; the manner in which they made the payments (from Cypriot account to Cypriot account); the relevant underlying consultancy agreements and the names of both the entities controlled by the Ukrainian oligarchs and Manafort’s own entities; the manner in which the monies were held and concealed in Cyprus, and later moved to St. Vincent and the Grenadines; his understanding of how accounts were held by others to conceal Manafort’s name and how those accounts were set up and maintained; the manner in which Manafort moved these funds to the United States, and specifically the payments to his tailors, landscapers, and other contractors, totaling millions of dollars; and Manafort’s (and Gates’) lies to his bookkeepers and tax preparers to perpetuate the scheme. Manafort also fraudulently reduced his tax exposure by classifying certain overseas income as loans, and Gates detailed for the jury the lies Manafort told to do so. Gates provided important details and context to the documentary evidence presented to the jury. As noted, Manafort was also charged with a series of bank frauds (Counts 25 to 32) relating to five loan applications from three financial institutions for more than $25 million in funding— all at a time when Manafort was experiencing financial difficulties due to President Yanukovych’s flight to Russia. Four of the five loans related to properties that Manafort purchased or improved using money he earned in Ukraine and failed to report as income. The properties included a townhouse in Brooklyn on Union Street, a SoHo condominium in Manhattan on Howard Street, and a home in Bridgehampton in Long Island, New York. Manafort applied for a $3.4 million loan from Citizens Bank on the Howard Street property; a $5.5 million mortgage from Citizens Bank on the Union Street property; a $9.5 million mortgage on the Bridgehampton property from The Federal Savings Bank; and a $6.5 million mortgage on the Union Street property also from The Federal Savings Bank. Of these loans, only the $5.5 million loan from Citizens was not 12 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643 Filed 12/10/19 Page 13 of 19 funded. Manafort also applied for, and was granted, a $1 million business loan from the Banc of California. Gates testified about each of these frauds and many of the materially false statements Manafort made on the bank applications ranging from where he lived and his use of the property to his assets and income, and the existence of liens on the properties at issue. As noted, Gates participated in each of the frauds, and often collected the relevant underlying documents and submitted them to the bank. Gates, for example, helped Manafort create and submit false profit and loss (P&L) statements overstating Manafort’s income. At Manafort’s request, Gates cut and pasted the contents of .pdf documents to “word versions” and back, altering them in the process and before they were submitted to banks. The details of their efforts to doctor P&L statements were often documented in emails, which Gates read and explained for the jury. At Manafort’s direction, Gates also asked an insurance broker to submit an older version of an insurance binder with respect to the Union Street property to conceal the existence of a prior mortgage on the property. Finally, Gates testified about his role in supporting Manafort’s claim that a substantial delinquency on Manafort’s American Express card—a red flag on his mortgage applications to The Federal Savings Bank—was the result of Manafort’s having lent his credit card to Gates to buy season tickets for the New York Yankees, when in fact Manafort had made this payment himself. Manafort was convicted on 8 of 18 counts in the Eastern District prosecution, and he has been sentenced in both that district and before this Court. 13 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643 Filed 12/10/19 Page 14 of 19 2. Testimony in the District of Columbia, United States v. Craig, 19-cr125 (ABJ) On August 22, 2019, Gates provided a full day of crucial testimony in the trial of United States v. Craig, in which Craig was charged with a false statements scheme. In communications with the Department of Justice’s FARA Unit in 2013, Craig allegedly concealed information about his work on a report (the Report) for Manafort and Ukraine, including his efforts to distribute the Report within the United States. Gates’ testimony was essential to providing the jury with an understanding of how and why Manafort and Ukraine decided to commission the Report, Manafort’s and Ukraine’s plan for the rollout of the Report in the United States, and Gates’ understanding of Craig’s participation in the rollout. For the Court’s consideration, a transcript of Gates’ testimony in U.S. v. Craig is enclosed as Exhibit 2. In his testimony, Gates explained to the jury why Ukraine had commissioned the Report. He testified that the work that he and Manafort were doing for Ukrainian president Victor Yanukovych included retaining a major United States law firm to review Ukraine’s prosecution of its former prime minister (and Yanukovych rival), Yulia Tymoshenko; Manafort’s strategy was that such a report would improve Ukraine’s image internationally. Gates testified that Manafort chose the law firm of Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom (Skadden) and Craig, a senior Skadden partner, because Skadden was a credible Western firm and Craig was, in Gates’ words, “a very experienced and credible attorney that would give the project visibility globally.” Exhibit 2 at 1822. Gates also outlined the strategy for the rollout of the Report once it was complete—that a public relations agent would provide an advance copy of the Report to a trusted reporter whose initial exclusive article would set the tone for later coverage. Gates testified that Craig had participated in discussions regarding the rollout of the Report in the United States, understood the 14 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643 Filed 12/10/19 Page 15 of 19 rollout strategy, and had recommended a particular New York Times reporter to receive the advance copy of the Report. Gates further explained that the New York Times reporter suggested by Craig ultimately was chosen to receive the exclusive advance copy of the Report, consistent with the rollout strategy—and that in fact, Craig personally provided the Report to the reporter and spoke with him. Finally, Gates stated that he had viewed the Report’s rollout—and the first New York Times article on the Report—as successes for Ukraine. As the Court knows, Craig was acquitted on the false statements scheme charge on September 4, 2019. Although Craig was acquitted, Gates’ testimony was corroborated and credible, and the government believes that Gates testified truthfully and completely in that case. Gates’ assistance should be evaluated independent of the jury’s decision—he should be given no more or less credit for his cooperation in that matter than had Craig been found guilty. 3. Testimony in the District of Columbia, United States v. Stone, 19-cr018 (ABJ) On November 12, 2019, Gates provided significant testimony in the prosecution of Roger Stone for making false statements and obstructing justice. Stone was charged with obstruction and false statements in connection with Stone’s 2017 appearance before and communications with the House of Representatives Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence (HPSCI), and witness tampering in connection with Stone’s threatening communications with another witness whose testimony HPSCI sought. The scope of HPSCI’s inquiry included WikiLeaks, whether Stone had been in contact with WikiLeaks, and whether Stone had provided information about WikiLeaks to anyone in the Trump Campaign in 2016. Because Gates had worked for the Trump Campaign in 2016, he was able to provide the jury with factual testimony that established that the information that Stone provided to HPSCI in 2017 was not accurate. For the Court’s consideration, a transcript of Gates’ testimony in U.S. v. Stone is enclosed as Exhibit 3. 15 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643 Filed 12/10/19 Page 16 of 19 In particular, Gates testified that he personally had conversations with Stone during the 2016 campaign in which Stone indicated that he had non-public information that WikiLeaks would soon be releasing more information publicly. Gates also recounted an incident in which, when riding in a car with then-candidate Trump, Gates observed Trump take a phone call from Stone, immediately following which Trump indicated that more information would be coming. As the Court is aware, Stone was found guilty of all of the charges against him on November 15, 2019. iii. Voluntary Surrender of Valuable Evidence During his cooperation, Gates surrendered a series of electronic devices, including multiple phones and computers, which were imaged and searched by the government. Numerous documents recovered from these devices provided the government with important information relating to Manafort. Gates also turned over other physical evidence, namely several passports, which demonstrated his travel to Ukraine and Cyprus. These documents were of evidentiary value and were admitted at Manafort’s Eastern District of Virginia trial, as they corroborated Gates’ testimony about his and Manafort’s work in Ukraine, and the use of financial accounts in Cypress. iv. Manafort Breach Issue Finally, Gates provided information relevant to the Court’s determination that Manafort breached his cooperation agreement and the Court’s finding that Manafort lied to the government and the grand jury. Gates provided information that formed a part of the Court’s findings. v. Commitment to Continue Cooperation Although he is being sentenced now, Gates has committed to continue his cooperation with the government, and has agreed that the Court can make such continuing cooperation a condition of any probationary sentence that he may receive. 16 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643 Filed 12/10/19 Page 17 of 19 B. Considerations Under Guidelines Section 5K1.1 Under Section 5K1.1 of the Guidelines, upon a motion by the government regarding a defendant’s substantial assistance, courts may depart from the guidelines. The Guidelines suggest that, in determining the appropriate reduction of a defendant’s sentence based on his substantial assistance, a court’s considerations may include factors such as the court’s evaluation of the significance of the defendant’s assistance (taking into account the government’s evaluation); the truthfulness, completeness, and reliability of information provided by the defendant; the nature and extent of his assistance; any injury or risk of injury suffered to the defendant or his family; and the timeliness of the defendant’s assistance. See U.S.S.G. § 5K1.1(a). In Gates’ case, each of these factors weighs in favor of a significant departure from Gates’ advisory Guidelines range. As the government has described above and in the supplemental submission filed under seal, Gates’ assistance has been significant and useful to the government in several criminal cases. Since entering his guilty plea, Gates has worked assiduously to provide truthful, complete, and reliable information to any government investigators who have asked to speak with him. And Gates’ assistance has been timely; after pleading guilty within four months of his initial indictment, Gates has provided significant information contributing to the convictions of Manafort and Stone, and to other investigation that are ongoing. Finally, is important to note that the public nature of this case has made Gates and Gates’ family the subject of intense media scrutiny. Gates’ cooperation has been steadfast despite the fact that the government has asked for his assistance in high profile matters, against powerful individuals, in the midst of a particularly turbulent environment. Gates received pressure not to cooperate with the government, including assurances of monetary assistance. He should be commended for standing up to provide information and public testimony against individuals such 17 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643 Filed 12/10/19 Page 18 of 19 as Manafort, Craig, and Stone, knowing well that they enjoy support from the upper echelons of American politics and society. Based on his substantial assistance, the government recommends a downward departure and does not oppose Gates’ request for a probationary sentence. CONCLUSION For the foregoing reasons, the government respectfully moves this Court for a significant downward departure from Gates’ advisory Guidelines range based on his substantial assistance, and does not oppose his request for probation. The government respectfully requests that the Court make Gates’ continued cooperation a condition of his sentence. Respectfully submitted, JESSIE K. LIU United States Attorney District of Columbia D.C. Bar No. 472845 By: /s/ Molly Gaston Molly Gaston, VA Bar No. 78506 Assistant United States Attorney 555 4th Street, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20530 (202) 272-7803 [email protected] 18 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643 Filed 12/10/19 Page 19 of 19 Certificate of Service I hereby certify that by virtue of the ECF system, I have caused a copy of the foregoing Motion to be served on counsel for the defendant. /s/ Molly Gaston Molly Gaston Assistant United States Attorney 19 Case Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 1 of 580 Exhibit 1 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 2 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 981 1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA ALEXANDRIA DIVISION 2 3 4 5 6 7 ------------------------------x : UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, : : versus : : PAUL J. MANAFORT, JR., : : Defendant. : ------------------------------x Criminal Action No. 1:18-CR-83 August 6, 2018 Volume VI 8 TRANSCRIPT OF JURY TRIAL BEFORE THE HONORABLE T.S. ELLIS, III UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE 9 10 APPEARANCES: 11 FOR THE GOVERNMENT: UZO ASONYE, AUSA United States Attorney's Office 2100 Jamieson Avenue Alexandria, VA 22314 and GREG ANDRES, SAUSA BRANDON LANG VAN GRACK, SAUSA Special Counsel's Office U.S. Department of Justice 950 Pennsylvania Avenue NW Washington, D.C. 20530 FOR THE DEFENDANT: JAY ROHIT NANAVATI, ESQ. BRIAN KETCHAM, ESQ. Kostelanetz & Fink LLP 601 New Jersey Avenue NW Suite 620 Washington, DC 20001 and THOMAS E. ZEHNLE, ESQ. Law Office of Thomas E. Zehnle 601 New Jersey Avenue NW Suite 620 Washington, DC 20001 and KEVIN DOWNING, ESQ. Law Office of Kevin Downing 601 New Jersey Avenue NW Suite 620 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 3 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 982 1 Washington, DC 20001 and RICHARD WILLIAM WESTLING, ESQ. Epstein, Becker, & Green, PC 1227 25th Street NW Washington, DC 20037 2 3 4 OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER: 5 6 TONIA M. HARRIS, RPR U.S. District Court, Ninth Floor 401 Courthouse Square Alexandria, VA 22314 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 4 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 983 1 TABLE OF CONTENTS TRIAL WITNESSES 2 3 On behalf of the Government: 4 Cindy Laporta (cont'd from 8/3/18) 5 Cross-examination by Mr. Downing................. 990 Redirect examination by Mr. Asonye............... 1047 Recross-examination by Mr. Downing............... 1065 6 7 Paula Liss 8 Direct examination by Mr. Asonye................ 1076 Cross-examination by Mr. Zehnle................. 1081 Redirect examination by Mr. Asonye.............. 1089 9 10 Richard Gates 11 Direct examination by Mr. Andres................ 1090 12 13 EXHIBITS On behalf of the Government: Admitted 14 17 Number Number Number Number Number Number 18 On behalf of the Defendant: 15 16 2F................................................ 338A.............................................. 338B.............................................. 356............................................... 342............................................... 344............................................... 1101 1134 1137 1140 1152 1153 Admitted 19 Number 3................................................. 1010 20 MISCELLANY 21 22 Preliminary matters...................................... 984 Certificate of Court Reporter............................ 1177 23 24 25 Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 5 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 984 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 (Court proceedings commenced at 1:33 p.m.) 3 THE COURT: Contrary to public opinion, Mr. Flood 4 was not previously a Marine Corps drill sergeant, but he does 5 a good job. 6 All right. The record will reflect that the 7 defendant and counsel for the Government and counsel for the 8 defendant are present, prepared to proceed in this case, which 9 is U.S. against Manafort. What's the number, Margaret? 10 (Discussion off the record.) 11 THE COURT: 83 -- 18-CR-83. 12 All right. And as I recall -- before we get the 13 jury in, is there anything that needs to be done, Mr. Andres? 14 MR. ANDRES: Very briefly, Judge. Your Honor, I 15 don't know if it's the practice of the Court to give an 16 instruction to the jurors about whether they run into counsel 17 and other people outside the courtroom, but I know I was in 18 the elevator with a juror this morning. 19 nothing. 20 jury that we're not being rude, but that we're under -- But if Your Honor was inclined to just say to the 21 THE COURT: 22 MR. ANDRES: 23 THE COURT: 24 MR. ANDRES: 25 Obviously I said Yes, I'll do that. Okay. I'll do that. Thank you, Judge. Anything else? Just secondly, to the extent we've identified previously the idea that -- the idea of any marital Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 6 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 985 1 infidelity on the part of a witness is not necessarily 2 reflective of truthfulness and not necessarily a relevant 3 ground for cross-examination. 4 We've talked to the defense about that, and they've 5 agreed to the extent that that comes up during their 6 cross-examination we would approach the bench to understand 7 the circumstance of that so that Your Honor could rule on that 8 prior to any questions asked if that's okay with Your Honor. 9 THE COURT: 10 MR. ANDRES: 11 THE COURT: 12 MR. ANDRES: Yes, that's the way we do it. Great. Anything else? Just two other issues, which we briefed 13 and won't come up today necessarily, but one is the 1006 14 exhibits and -- 15 THE COURT: Yes, I've read that brief. I haven't 16 had the opportunity to read the most recent submission, which 17 you-all made, but I will. 18 MR. ANDRES: 19 THE COURT: 20 21 Okay. The 1006, I've read that, but it won't come up in -- on this witness' testimony, it hasn't -MR. ANDRES: Correct. And we've also talked to the 22 defense, and not clear to me, and they'll speak to themselves, 23 that they'll object to those. 24 And, lastly, the one we filed today, which won't 25 come up today either, is just to have a FBI agent read the Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 7 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 986 1 e-mails from Mr. Manafort that are his own statements. 2 again, won't come up today, but just to preview for Your 3 Honor. 4 THE COURT: 5 MR. ANDRES: 6 THE COURT: That, All right. Thank you, Judge. As far as the exhibits, which I've 7 already told you you may use those summary exhibits as 8 demonstrative. 9 chief. You want to introduce them as evidence in And I understand that. 10 If you look at the rule carefully, the rule says 11 that if the data is voluminous, that it's sensible and 12 appropriate to do so as long as the exhibits are admitted and 13 so forth. 14 What you may not do is to use an exhibit, which is 15 really a demonstrative, to put that in. 16 disguised as an exhibit. 17 think what you had originally shown me is something having to 18 do with voluminous financial figures and the like. 19 that's, of course -- but I'll hear the parties on that in 20 greater detail. 21 It's an argument And so I won't allow that. But I And Again, keep in mind that if it is a summary of an 22 argument disguised to be a 1006, I won't allow it. 23 doesn't mean you can't use it, but it will be a demonstrative. 24 25 MR. ANDRES: Understood. That Thank you, Judge. Appreciate that. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 8 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 987 1 2 THE COURT: All right. Anything else before we begin? 3 MR. DOWNING: No, Your Honor. 4 MR. ASONYE: 5 We were handed a number of exhibits that defense We have one other issue, Your Honor. 6 counsel plans to use in the cross of Ms. Laporta. 7 is -- 8 THE COURT: 9 MR. ASONYE: 10 THE COURT: 11 MR. ASONYE: One of them Well, how thoughtful of them. One of them is -But they're not obligated to do that. Your Honor, one of them is a tax return 12 from 2016, which is outside of the charged period and was not 13 prepared by Ms. Laporta or her firm. 14 relevance whatsoever in this document; and, additionally, she 15 would have no personal knowledge of it either. 16 object to it being used to cross-examine her. 17 18 THE COURT: The Government sees no So we would Well, are you going to ask questions of this witness to demonstrate the relevancy of this document. 19 MR. DOWNING: 20 THE COURT: Correct, Your Honor. All right. Well, why don't I wait until 21 you ask those questions? And when it's offered, then, 22 Mr. Asonye, you may state your objection. 23 you come to the bench. 24 it's -- it's a waste of time to sit here and hear Mr. -- hear 25 one or both of you -- hear Mr. Downing or Mr. Zehnle tell me I'll probably have But I need to see it in context and Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 9 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 988 1 about this -- 2 3 MR. DOWNING: May I have one second to confer with the Government? 4 THE COURT: 5 (Discussion off the record.) 6 THE COURT: 7 MR. DOWNING: 8 THE COURT: 9 Yes, you may. Mr. Downing, all set? Yes. All right. You may bring the jury in, All right. You may be seated. Mr. Flood. 10 (Jury in.) 11 THE COURT: 12 afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. 13 the calling of the roll by the numbers. 14 15 THE DEPUTY CLERK: Good We'll begin as always with Ms. Pham. Ladies and gentlemen, as I call your number, please answer "present" or "here." 16 Juror 0008. 17 THE JUROR: 18 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 19 THE JUROR: 20 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 21 THE JUROR: 22 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 23 THE JUROR: 24 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 25 THE JUROR: Here. Juror 0037. Here. Juror 0276. Present. Juror 0017. Present. Juror 0145. Present. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 10 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 989 1 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 2 THE JUROR: 3 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 4 THE JUROR: 5 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 6 THE JUROR: 7 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 8 THE JUROR: 9 THE DEPUTY CLERK: Present. Juror 0009. Present. Juror 0299. Present. THE JUROR: 11 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 12 THE JUROR: 13 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 14 THE JUROR: 15 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 16 THE JUROR: 17 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 18 THE JUROR: 19 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 20 THE JUROR: 21 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 22 THE JUROR: 23 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 24 THE COURT: gentlemen. Juror 0082. Present. 10 25 Juror 0115. Juror 0091. Present. Juror 0302. Present. Juror 0060. Present. Juror 0296. Present. Juror 0054. Present. Juror 0127. Present. And Juror 0133. Present. Thank you. All right. Good afternoon, ladies and Let me confirm, verify that you were able to do as Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 11 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 990 1 you were instructed to refrain from discussing the matter with 2 anyone over the weekend. 3 THE JURORS: Yes. 4 THE COURT: Good. Thank you. And I hope you had a 5 pleasant and I had a pleasant and uneventful -- and to me that 6 always make it pleasant, I realize. 7 where uneventful is really good. 8 9 All right. Ms. Laporta. You'll get to the point Let's have Ms. Laporta back on the stand, please. 10 Ms. Laporta, you may recall you remain under oath. 11 THE WITNESS: 12 THE COURT: 13 (Witness seated.) 14 THE COURT: 15 Yes. You may resume the stand. Mr. Downing, you may proceed, sir. (Witness previously sworn 8/3/18.) CROSS-EXAMINATION (cont'd) 16 17 BY MR. DOWNING: 18 Q. 19 and I represent Paul Manafort. 20 today. Good afternoon, Ms. Laporta. 21 My name is Kevin Downing, Thank you for coming back I want to follow up on some of your testimony from 22 last week. 23 provided through your accounting firm, KWC, to Mr. Manafort 24 and his entities. 25 There's a bit of testimony about services that you Can you explain to the jury how big of an accounting Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 12 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 991 1 firm KWC is? 2 A. Yes, certainly. 3 KWC has about -- 4 THE COURT: 5 you. 6 my ears aren't. I'm sorry, Ms. Laporta, I can't hear Ask you just to speak up. I'm sure your voice is fine; 7 THE WITNESS: 8 KWC has about -- I think we've got around 80 people 9 I'm happy to speak up. on staff, including partners, CPAs, administrative staff. 10 BY MR. DOWNING: 11 Q. 12 firm; is that correct? 13 A. That's correct. 14 Q. And what firm is that? 15 A. BDO. 16 Q. How big of a firm is that? 17 A. They're an international firm. 18 Q. Hundreds of accountants? 19 A. I would -- yes. 20 Q. With respect to both KWC and BDO, do you have -- did you 21 have available to you back in 2013, '14, '15, individual CPAs 22 that had expertise in tax? 23 A. Yes, we did. 24 Q. And that's not your particular area of expertise, is it? 25 A. No. And you're affiliated with an international accounting Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 13 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 992 1 Q. What is your particular area of expertise? 2 A. Accounting and auditing. 3 Q. And you didn't do any auditing for Mr. Manafort or for 4 his entities, did you? 5 A. No, I did not. 6 Q. And most of the work was tax work; is that correct? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And you did tax work for him individually? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. For DMP and DMP International, his political consulting 11 firm? 12 A. That's correct. 13 Q. As well as a myriad of entities that were involved in 14 everything from real estate, horse farm, correct? 15 A. That's before my time, but as a client of the firm -- 16 Q. You're familiar with that? 17 A. That's right. 18 19 THE COURT: Movie production? You'll have to answer a little louder, please. 20 THE WITNESS: 21 THE COURT: And you as well, Mr. Downing. 22 little louder, please. 23 MR. DOWNING: 24 BY MR. DOWNING: 25 Q. Yes. Just a I've never heard that, Your Honor. How about international investing? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 14 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 993 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And with respect to this engagement, how is it that you 3 as an audit and accounting partner got put in charge of a tax 4 engagement? 5 A. 6 business taxes, their individual taxes, and then financial 7 statement work. 8 department that we work as a team on these engagements. 9 Well, typically the profile of our clients is their And what we do at our firm, is we have a tax So while I may advise on an engagement that is 10 typically tax but then has an accounting and audit section, I 11 would help there the same way the tax department will step in 12 and help me on an engagement. 13 that's all. 14 Q. 15 experience that had the expertise in tax to take over that 16 relationship? 17 A. 18 run by Philip Ayliff. 19 Q. 20 in the area of tax? 21 A. Yes, he did. 22 Q. And with respect to your dealings with Mr. Manafort's 23 entities and his personal taxes, you had quite a few 24 interactions with Mr. Richard Gates; is that correct? 25 A. And when I took over -- well, So at that time, did -- KWC did not have someone of your Uhm, the -- at the time I took over, it was still being And you felt that Mr. Ayliff had considerable experience Yes, that is correct. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 15 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 994 1 Q. And if I -- if I got this correct from your testimony 2 last week, this was not a client that had everything organized 3 and for you -- and for -- available to you on a timely basis; 4 is that correct? 5 A. That's correct. 6 Q. And you ran up against a lot of deadlines; is that 7 correct? 8 A. Yes, that is. 9 Q. And it seemed like it was quite a chore to get this 10 information that you needed to get the returns filed year in 11 and year out; is that correct? 12 A. That is correct. 13 Q. And I could sense a level of frustration that you had, in 14 particular with Mr. Gates and others on your team, in terms of 15 that process being inefficient, difficult, a fact-finding 16 mission; is that correct? 17 A. That's correct. 18 Q. And I think you even stated last week there came a point 19 in time where you just didn't believe what Mr. Gates was 20 saying to you; is that correct? 21 A. That is correct. 22 Q. Now, in terms of the team that was involved, especially 23 let's talk about for tax years 2014 and '15, which would cover 24 years 2015; is that correct? 25 A. That's correct. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 16 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 995 1 Q. Because the tax returns come a year after? 2 A. That's correct. 3 Q. Now, your team consisted of you, that had the general 4 relationship? 5 A. No, I had the general communication. 6 Q. General communication. 7 describe his role? 8 A. He would prepare and review the tax returns. 9 Q. And Mr. Walters, was it? 10 A. He was one person on the team at one point. 11 Q. And did he have the tax expertise? 12 A. Absolutely, yes. 13 Q. And Mr. O'Brien, who is Mr. O'Brien? 14 A. He was a staff member on the engagement. 15 Q. Pretty young accountant at the time? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. So when it came to the technical tax issues, was it 18 primarily Mr. Walters that would be relied upon? 19 A. And Mr. Ayliff. 20 Q. And Mr. Ayliff? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And others at KWC in the tax department? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. So one of the issues that you testified about last week 25 had to do with real estate. Mr. Ayliff, what would you It was Howard Street, in Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 17 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 996 1 particular, that came up. 2 Now, Mr. Manafort had invested in quite a few 3 residential properties; is that correct? 4 A. That's correct. 5 Q. And when I say "residential," I don't mean as a 6 residence, but they weren't commercial and big buildings. 7 They were actually individual properties; is that correct? 8 A. That's correct. 9 Q. And the ownership interest of these various properties in 10 New York involved Mr. Manafort, correct? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. His wife? 13 A. That's correct. 14 Q. His daughters? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And there were several entities that were being used in 17 various forms, whether it was for personal occupancy? 18 A. Correct. 19 Q. Or rentals? 20 A. That's correct. 21 Q. And they were in various states of construction or 22 rehabilitation; is that correct? 23 A. Yes, that is. 24 Q. And during the 2015 and 2016 period, there were lots of 25 issues about trying to get financing for these various Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 18 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 997 1 properties; is that correct? 2 A. Yes, that is. 3 Q. A lot of moving parts, would you say? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And we could see from the e-mail traffic that the 6 Government went through with you last week that it seemed to 7 be a lot of things were changing year by year; is that 8 correct? 9 A. Yes, that is correct. 10 Q. And that was one of the issues that it was tough for KWC 11 to deal with, was it not? 12 A. Yes, it was difficult to follow. 13 Q. And, in fact, at some time one of the issues that came 14 up, well, is it being used as a personal residence or is it 15 being rented; is that correct? 16 A. That's correct. 17 Q. And it was for more than one property? 18 A. Yes, I believe so. 19 Q. And involving more than Mr. Manafort, all the individuals 20 we talked about before, his daughters? 21 A. Yes, that's correct. 22 Q. And then some individual named Jeff Yohai, is it? 23 A. I don't recall if Jeff Yohai was part of the -- who 24 was -- regarding those properties. 25 Q. I think you said the other day that you -- you remember Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 19 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 998 1 Jessica had a husband and his name was Jeff? 2 A. Yes, that's correct. 3 Q. Is that Jeff Yohai? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And he was involved with one of Jessica's properties; is 6 that correct? 7 A. 8 living, she was going to be living in New York. 9 it together about Jeff Yohai until just now. So I just -- I guess I think of Jess, where she was I didn't put 10 Q. But you do know that she was married to him at the time; 11 is that correct? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Now, with respect to the Howard Street property, there 14 was an issue that came up, I think Mr. Manafort had sent you 15 an e-mail that was covered last week, and he said, hey -- he 16 didn't say "hey." 17 That was me. He said, Can you help me with something? I'm 18 looking to borrow against one of the properties, Howard 19 Street. 20 wanted you to communicate with the bank about that property 21 being not his primary but his secondary residence? 22 And he said that it was a residence and that he Do you recall that? 23 A. Yes, I do. 24 Q. And I believe you stated that you did convey that to 25 Mr. Fallarino at Citizens Bank; is that correct? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 20 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 999 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And you also indicated that you made a mistake, that it 3 actually wasn't a second residence, it had been picked up as a 4 rental property; is that correct? 5 A. 6 properties was being used -- or had been used for 2015. 7 Q. 8 dealing with an issue like this for the jury, you're not 9 spending day and night on these questions, are you? I relied on Rick Gates' facts as to how each of those Right. And I think just part of the explanation for 10 A. No. 11 Q. So if Mr. Manafort calls you up as a client, with a 12 question, how many clients call you with a question any given 13 day? 14 A. All day, every day. 15 Q. All day, every day. 16 accurate information back out for the client; is that correct? 17 A. That's correct. 18 Q. And you have files that you can go check or have others 19 check to make sure that you're providing accurate information? 20 A. That's correct. 21 Q. And I think, in this instance, you said that you didn't 22 have an opportunity to go check the tax returns or your work 23 papers when you conveyed the information; is that correct? 24 A. 25 else or didn't do any more work on determining how that house And you try to do your best to get I believe what I said was that I didn't rely on anything Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 21 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1000 1 had been used, how those properties had been used. 2 Q. 3 the tax return that had been filed for the prior year; is that 4 correct? 5 A. 6 would have been right for that. 7 Q. 8 going on, whether it was a rental or a residence for the 9 current year; is that correct? And one way you could have done that is to go to your -- I don't believe so, because I don't think the timing So you wouldn't know from the prior years return what was 10 A. That's correct. 11 Q. And that's because you hadn't prepared the tax returns 12 yet? 13 A. That's correct. 14 Q. And that's because you didn't have any other information 15 from Mr. Gates regarding how the property was being used? 16 A. 17 correct. 18 Q. 19 didn't do any other procedures or inquiries to determine if 20 they were accurate; is that correct? 21 A. That's correct. 22 Q. Okay. 23 not accurate; is that correct? 24 A. That's correct. 25 Q. Now, on your part, you wouldn't say that you conveyed The only information I had was his representation, And other than taking Mr. Gates' representation, you So at the end of the day, it ends up that it was Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 22 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1001 1 something intentionally false to the bank, did you? 2 A. No, I did not believe so. 3 Q. And, if anything, a mistake was made on your part; is 4 that correct? 5 A. That's correct. 6 Q. And you would have no reason to believe whether 7 Mr. Manafort was mistaken either, do you? 8 A. No, I have no reason to believe that. 9 Q. So one of the -- one of the overriding issues, I think, 10 last week during your direct had to do with foreign bank 11 accounts and whether FBARs had to be filed. 12 years, it seemed there were a lot of questions about whether 13 or not FBARs had to be filed for Mr. Manafort or for his 14 entities; is that correct? 15 A. That's correct. 16 Q. Now, the FBAR area is not an area of expertise for you, 17 is it? 18 A. No. 19 Q. And who on your team did you go to in terms of relying 20 upon the analysis as to whether or not Mr. Manafort or his 21 entities had any FBAR filing requirements? 22 A. 23 international filing requirements, and he had established this 24 in a routine of being certain that we addressed it each and 25 every year, for each and every entity. And over the Philip Ayliff was very well informed about these Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 23 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1002 1 Q. And did you think that Mr. Ayliff had expertise with 2 respect to determining if an FBAR had to filed? 3 A. 4 that did. 5 Q. 6 experience with respect to determining whether or not an FBAR 7 had to be filed. 8 A. 9 requirements. Yes, or he would have gone to another member of the firm Why do you say yes? You said, yes, you thought he had Because he had a lot of large clients that had FBAR 10 Q. Would you be surprised to learn last week he testified 11 that he did not have expertise with respect to determining 12 whether or not an FBAR had to be filed? 13 A. 14 the KWC team that did have expertise. 15 Q. 16 not have the expertise with respect to determining if an FBAR 17 had to be filed? 18 A. No, I guess I could see him relying on other people. 19 Q. As you did; is that correct? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. And in terms of the determination to file FBARs, there 22 came a point in time, I believe, the -- you had some 23 discussions with Mr. Gates, in particular, about some accounts 24 that were in Ukraine; is that correct? 25 A. Well, as I said, he may have spoken to other members of But I asked if you would be surprised if he said he did That is correct. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 24 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1003 1 Q. 2 Mr. Gates told you that things were set up, the bank accounts, 3 so that they did not have an FBAR filing requirement with 4 regards to a foreign account; is that correct? 5 A. That is correct. 6 Q. And other than Mr. Gates' representation to you on that 7 issue, did you have any other information from Mr. Gates about 8 what that meant about how things were set up? 9 A. No, I did not. 10 Q. And do you know if KWC or Mr. Ayliff made any further 11 inquiries about what that meant, how they were set up? 12 A. I don't believe so, or I'm not aware of any others. 13 Q. And another issue last week that I think you spent 14 considerable time on was talking about loans, and loans 15 between DMP and foreign entities or loans between affiliates 16 and DMP or Mr. Manafort. 17 And it has been represented to us that you had said that Do you recall that? 18 A. I do recall those. 19 Q. And in particular, you were brought -- you were asked 20 some questions about the 2015, '16 time frame, and most of it 21 came out of questions -- is that correct? 22 A. That's correct. 23 Q. Sorry. 24 25 I need to slow down. And was that -- did that come about because of some of the questions about Mr. Manafort trying to get lending on Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 25 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1004 1 the real estate? 2 A. Do you mind repeating your question? 3 Q. Sure. 4 I'll break it down in a smaller piece. Last week when you were asked questions about 5 Telmar? 6 A. Okay. 7 Q. Telmar questions came up because Mr. Manafort was trying 8 to borrow some money and they were trying to get financial 9 statements out to the lenders; is that correct? 10 A. That is not how I recall the Telmar note. 11 Q. Do you recall Telmar being part of tax return 12 preparation? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Do you recall it being on a deadline date -- 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. -- when you were dealing with that issue? 17 Now, when you talked about Telmar, some issues came 18 up about how you're dealing with income that was coming into 19 DMP International; is that correct? 20 A. That is correct. 21 Q. And DMP International, you understood to be earning 22 income overseas by providing political consulting; is that 23 correct? 24 A. Yes, that is correct. 25 Q. And you understood the money that was coming in from Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 26 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1005 1 these overseas companies was for the political consulting 2 fees? 3 A. That is correct. 4 Q. But there was another issue that you -- KWC was dealing 5 with every year. 6 reported as loans to Mr. Manafort or loans from an affiliate; 7 is that correct? 8 A. 9 tax return. It was a question of how much money would be The first experience I had with that was filing the 2014 10 Q. And Mr. Ayliff was involved with that issue, correct? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And Mr. Ayliff had been doing the work -- tax work for 13 Mr. Manafort and his entities, going back to 1997, did you 14 know that? 15 A. Yes, I did. 16 Q. And Mr. Ayliff is familiar with this income loan issue; 17 is that correct? 18 A. That's my understanding, yes. 19 Q. So before I get into the nitty-gritty detail, which I 20 apologize, I need to do, are you familiar that when you're 21 dealing with a partnership and its partners, that every year 22 you have to reconcile issues in terms of personal expenditures 23 that may have been made on behalf of a partner by the 24 partnership? 25 A. Yes. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 27 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1006 1 Q. Distributions that may have been made that may not have 2 been taxed? 3 A. That's correct. 4 Q. And then finally, what is the income of the partner; is 5 that correct? 6 A. That's correct. 7 Q. Now, in the course of doing accounting and doing tax work 8 in a given year, a partnership may pay out personal expenses 9 for an individual partner; is that correct? 10 A. That's correct. 11 Q. And the question is, at the end of the day, how do you 12 account for it; is that correct? 13 A. That's correct. 14 Q. Because you're not going to account for it as a 15 deduction, a business deduction for the partnership, correct? 16 A. That's correct. 17 Q. And that's because it's personal? 18 A. Correct. 19 Q. But the next thing to figure out is, okay, what do we do 20 with it? 21 A. No. 22 Q. It's not, because you're not going to have compensation 23 to a partner; is that correct? 24 A. That's correct. 25 Q. So the next question is: Is it going to be compensation to a partner? Is it a distribution? Has the Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 28 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1007 1 partnership taken its own money for the personal benefit of a 2 partner and distributed it out? 3 A. That's -- 4 Q. So it could be a distribution? 5 A. Yes, it could be a distribution. 6 Q. And then the other item, the only other item that you're 7 generally going to deal with: 8 personal benefit, whether or not it's a loan to that partner; 9 is that correct? If a particular partner got a 10 A. I'm sorry. Can you repeat that question for me? 11 Q. The third way you can categorize the partnership's 12 payment of a personal expense for a partner would be as a loan 13 to a partner? 14 A. That's correct. 15 Q. Okay. 16 deal with this issue every day with closely held partnerships; 17 is that correct? 18 A. That's correct. 19 Q. Because quite often, the partners in these closely held 20 partnerships are having personal expenses paid by the 21 partnership, correct? 22 A. That is correct. 23 Q. But they're also going out of their own pockets to pay 24 business expenses? 25 A. Now, in terms of this issue, as an accountant, you That is correct. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 29 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1008 1 Q. 2 Mr. Manafort also with respect to DMP; is that correct? 3 A. That is correct. 4 Q. Do you need something, ma'am? 5 A. I need water badly. 6 And you had that -- you had that second issue with Sorry. (A pause in the proceedings.) 7 BY MR. DOWNING: 8 Q. 9 Mr. Manafort and for DMP International, did you have occasion Now, in the -- in the course of doing work for 10 for yourself or your staff to put together work papers? 11 A. Yes, we did. 12 Q. And can you explain to the jury what's a work paper? 13 What's the purpose of it? 14 A. 15 balance sheet or certain income and expense accounts that need 16 to have a little more detail, so that we can follow the next 17 year in preparation. 18 we'd want to include in that work paper. 19 guide to help as a -- if there are any questions on the 20 current year, but also for any assistance in the following 21 year. 22 Q. 23 just talk about DMP and DMP International, there are certain 24 schedules you need to keep, because every year the issue is 25 going to come up again on a tax return like schedules for Work paper is to support items that are reported on the There might be anticipated activity that It's just really a And part of your work every year for an accountant, let's Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 30 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1009 1 depreciation? 2 A. That's correct. 3 Q. That would be an example. 4 consider reoccurring on a tax return, you'd want to have a 5 schedule for? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And as part of your work with DMP International with 8 Mr. Manafort, there also comes occasion when clients ask you 9 for information; is that correct? But anything you would 10 A. That's correct. 11 Q. And you have occasion, in your capacity as an accountant 12 at a CPA firm, to put together schedules for clients; is that 13 correct? 14 A. Yes, that is. 15 Q. So I'm going to ask you to take a look at what's been 16 marked Defendant's Exhibit 3. 17 And take a minute and take a look at it. 18 A. Exhibit 3? 19 Q. 3, yes. 20 And, Ms. Laporta, is this a work paper, would you 21 call it, spreadsheet? What would you call it? 22 A. A spreadsheet. 23 Q. And is this something that you -- the client had asked 24 you to put together? 25 A. Yes, it is. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 31 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1010 1 Q. And is this something you were involved with putting 2 together and oversaw the completion of it? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And at the time you were putting this together, was this 5 put together from the tax filings of DMP, DMP International, 6 and Mr. Manafort? 7 A. Yes, that's correct. 8 Q. And as you were putting the document together, did you 9 have other people help you out and check that it's fair and 10 accurate? 11 A. Yes, I did. 12 Q. Okay. 13 a fair and accurate record that you put together? 14 A. 15 16 And as you sit here today, do you know this to be Yes. MR. DOWNING: Your Honor, I move Defense Exhibits 3 into evidence as business record of KWC. 17 MR. ASONYE: 18 THE COURT: No objection. Admitted. 19 (Defendant's Exhibit No. 3 20 admitted into evidence.) 21 MR. DOWNING: 22 THE COURT: 23 MR. DOWNING: 24 THE COURT: 25 MR. DOWNING: May we publish, Your Honor? You may. Maybe not. You can use the ELMO. With a little help, I think so. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 32 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1011 1 THE COURT: 2 There we are. 3 MR. DOWNING: 4 Well, it's small enough that no one can read it, so 5 THE COURT: Well, you can. You can magnify. Let me ask the court security officer, can you manipulate this thing or do we need to get Lance up here? 10 THE CSO: 11 MR. DOWNING: 12 THE COURT: 13 MR. DOWNING: 14 MR. NANAVATI: 15 MR. DOWNING: 16 THE COURT: 17 MR. NANAVATI: 18 Yes, Your Honor. 19 THE COURT: Probably Lance. I have a volunteer. Oh, all right. Thank you, sir. Sure. We're having technical difficulty. Mr. Nanavati. I'm going to do my best, Your Honor. All right. Go ahead. He knows how to 20 do it. 21 MR. DOWNING: 22 Q. 23 document, it says it's loans from wire transfers. 24 25 You can focus it down. 8 9 Thank you. I'm not sure that's going to be helpful. 6 7 That, I can't help you with. Very good. So on that -- the top left corner of this And do you recall you going back in time and trying to find out through the records, what kind of monies were Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 33 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1012 1 flowing into DMP International, where it was coming from, and 2 how it was categorized; is that correct? 3 A. That is correct. 4 Q. And this particular spreadsheet shows wires that came in 5 from various foreign entities that had been recorded as loans; 6 is that correct? 7 A. That is correct. 8 Q. And going back as far as 2006, you -- the first loan you 9 have recorded there is about $10 million; is that correct? 10 A. Yes, that's correct. 11 Q. And then as you go down that column, there's 3.5 million 12 in 2007, correct? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And in 2007, there's another -- that's from LOAV. 15 There's another one, 2.8 million that came in, do you see 16 that? 17 A. That's correct. 18 Q. And then for 2008, you have four entries; is that 19 correct? 20 A. That's correct. 21 Q. For 225,507, 8 million, 120,000. 22 8,120,000, correct? 23 A. Correct. 24 Q. You have another 105,000, and then if we go down a little 25 further on 2008, there's a series of transfers in from That one totaled Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 34 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1013 1 Yiakora, correct? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. To the tune of 1.9 million, do you see that? 4 A. Yes, I do. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. Right. 7 Q. 1.5, and next up for 2014, '15 is Telmar, which Peranova 8 and Telmar are what you were familiar with, correct? 9 A. Yes, that's correct. 10 Q. Okay. 11 there was over $30 million in loans that had been reported on 12 the tax returns, correct? 13 A. That's correct. 14 Q. Of DMP International? 15 And then 2012, there's Peranova, right? So over that period of time, from 2006 to 2015, And during that same period of time, if we can go 16 down a little further -- 17 A. 18 I'm looking at the responsible party. 19 Q. Go ahead. 20 A. Okay. 21 were other entities. 22 Q. Go ahead. 23 A. That there were other entities here besides DMP. 24 Q. There were other entities involved, too. 25 Excuse me, not all on DMP International. I don't think. I'm sorry, I'm not -- Take your time. That's all I was going to point out, that there One more time, I'm sorry? But this -- all of this information came from tax Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 35 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1014 1 returns that had been filed by KWC, correct? 2 A. That's correct. 3 Q. Okay. 4 for the total loans and it shows $30 million, correct? 5 A. That's correct. 6 Q. Okay. 7 does that mean? 8 A. 9 have to guess, the only one I'm familiar with is the And we go to the bottom, you have a total number What's the next line, "recognized revenues," what Those are loans that had been over time. I guess -- I 10 1.5 million from Peranova, but -- so that's the only time I 11 remember recognizing revenue for what had previously been a 12 loan. 13 Q. 14 And let's just go back to that testimony you gave. The recognition of income from a loan is when you 15 say the loan has been forgiven? 16 A. That's correct. 17 Q. And then the amount of the loan in the case of Peranova, 18 you would report that 1.5 million Peranova loan as income on 19 Mr. Manafort's tax return, correct? 20 A. That's correct. 21 Q. And even though he didn't receive anymore money, you 22 reported as income because he's not paying it back, correct? 23 A. That's correct. 24 Q. So in addition to Peranova, there must have been another, 25 what is that, almost 6 million, just shy of 6 million in loan Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 36 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1015 1 forgiveness that you were not involved with? 2 A. That's correct. 3 Q. But KWC was? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. How about the next line, "Distributed to Paul Manafort," 6 is that what we were talking about earlier, the distributions 7 from the partnership? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And that totals $15.7 million, correct? 10 A. Correct. 11 Q. The next line is, "Distributed to others, other 12 partners." 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. 2.3? 15 mean? 16 A. 17 investment that had been reported on the tax return that had 18 no further value. 19 Q. 20 correct? 21 A. That's correct. 22 Q. And that would be Telmar, correct? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Okay. 25 document. Do you see that? And then "Worthless Investment," what does that I would think that that would -- that would be an And then the final balance on there says 1.9 million, Now, let's go to the bottom right-hand side of the Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 37 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1016 1 You have some notes on this side of the document, 2 and the particular note I want to point your attention to is 3 the three-star note. 4 A. 5 longer expected to receive connected anticipated proceeds in 6 order to repay this debt." 7 Q. So that was the outstanding amount as of 2015? 8 A. That's correct. 9 Q. And you were expecting that in 2016, that would be picked Can you read that? "To be recognized as income in 2016 by Paul Manafort, no 10 up in income? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Now, you didn't prepare the 2016 tax return for Mr. 13 Manafort, did you? 14 A. No, I did not. 15 Q. But you did talk to a Mr. Gittelman, a CPA, about the 16 preparation of that return? 17 A. Yes, I tried to -- 18 Q. And you provided some records with respect to the 19 preparation of that return, correct? 20 A. Yes, that's correct. 21 Q. And you have to provide records, right? 22 anything else, a new accountant can't start from scratch, they 23 need to know what happened before, correct? 24 A. That's correct. 25 Q. And they need some books and records and prior year's tax It's like Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 38 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1017 1 returns, and those are the kind of things that you provided, 2 correct? 3 A. That's correct. 4 Q. Now, I'm going to ask you to take a look at what's been 5 marked Government's Exhibit 4 -- Defendant's Exhibit 4. 6 about that. 7 I would like you to take a look at Line 1. 8 is line -- well, first of all, what is this? 9 A. it was prepared by Gittelman CPA. 11 Q. 12 in providing information -- And that's the Gittelman CPA that you were dealing with 13 THE COURT: Mr. Downing, I want to know what magic 14 you have. 15 and he sat right back down. 16 Mr. Asonye started to get up and he went like this MR. ASONYE: Give him a little more leeway, Your Honor. 18 19 MR. DOWNING: A little more rope you've given me, I believe. 20 THE COURT: 21 MR. DOWNING: 22 THE COURT: 23 MR. DOWNING: 24 THE COURT: 25 And what This is a tax return for DMP International for 2016, and 10 17 Sorry I see. Are you offering the Exhibit 4? Not yet, Your Honor. All right. Not yet. Proceed. MR. DOWNING: Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 39 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1018 1 Q. So you see the Line 1, gross receipts? 2 A. I do. 3 Q. And how much is that? 4 MR. ASONYE: 5 MR. DOWNING: 6 I'm about to explain why it's relevant. 7 8 Well, objection, relevance, Your Honor. MR. ASONYE: document. 9 Now, getting the information out of the It's not admitted. THE COURT: Go ahead, Mr. Downing, and elicit why 10 it's relevant from this witness, if you can do so. 11 MR. DOWNING: 12 Q. 13 about, you had $1.9 million that was supposed to be picked up 14 in 2016; is that correct? 15 A. That's correct. 16 Q. And in your dealings with Mr. Gittelman, did you provide 17 him with information regarding picking up that income? 18 A. 19 sure. 20 I can't tell you exactly what I gave him besides tax returns. 21 Q. 22 the statement section marked Page 2, Statement 6? 23 A. I'm here. 24 Q. Do you see that entry? 25 A. Yes. In terms of your note on the work sheet we just talked I don't recall. It would -- I just don't recall that for I gave him everything I could or that he asked for, but Okay. So can you turn to the back of this tax return in Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 40 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1019 1 Q. Now, does that refresh your recollection as to whether 2 KWC provided the Telmar information to Mr. Gittelman? 3 A. 4 general ledger. 5 Q. 6 the Telmar investment was picked up as income for 7 Mr. Manafort? 8 A. 9 general ledger. It could have also come from the general ledger, the 2016 And do you know if the 2016 general ledger indicated that I don't remember. 10 Q. 11 correct? 12 A. 13 14 And that's what's being indicated on this year's return, Yes, that's correct. THE COURT: What is it that's being reflected on this 2016 return? 15 16 I don't believe I saw that 2016 THE WITNESS: That the -- the liability to Telmar Investments is zero at the end of 2016. 17 THE COURT: Meaning what? 18 THE WITNESS: That it was included in income. 19 MR. DOWNING: In 2016? 20 THE COURT: 21 THE WITNESS: 22 THE COURT: For whom in 2016? DMP International. Next question. 23 MR. DOWNING: 24 Q. 25 International, the income of DMP International would directly And with respect to the partnership structure at DMP Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 41 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1020 1 flow down to its partners, correct? 2 A. That's correct. 3 Q. And that would be Mr. Manafort and Mrs. Manafort, 4 correct? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And that would flow through to their 1040 for that year? 7 A. Yes, that's correct. 8 Q. Now, in terms of your preparation of other documents and 9 work papers for Mr. Manafort at the request of the client, 10 would you take a look at Government's Exhibit No. 11 Defendant's Exhibit No. 2? 12 THE COURT: 13 MR. DOWNING: 14 I've already admitted 2, have I not? It's Defendant's. I'm sorry, Your Honor. 15 16 2 -- THE COURT: Yeah, but I've already admitted Defendant's 2, have I not? 17 MR. DOWNING: 18 THE COURT: 19 MR. DOWNING: 20 THE COURT: 3. 3 I've admitted. I'm going out of order. All right. You may do so. 21 MR. DOWNING: 22 Q. 23 document? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. And, again, is this a schedule you prepared at the Ms. Laporta, you've had a chance to look at that Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 42 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1021 1 request of a client? 2 A. Yes, it is. 3 Q. And your capacity as a CPA? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And did you have other individuals at KWC work with you 6 on this? 7 A. Yes, I did. 8 Q. And has it been checked for accuracy? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Against the tax records of KWC for DMP and Mr. Manafort? 11 A. It was prepared from the tax returns. 12 13 MR. DOWNING: Your Honor, I move Defendant's Exhibit No. 2 into evidence as a record of KWC. 14 MR. ASONYE: No objection. 15 THE COURT: 16 MR. DOWNING: 17 THE COURT: Admitted. May I publish, Your Honor? Yes, you may. 18 MR. DOWNING: 19 Q. Ms. Laporta, can you explain what this work sheet is? 20 A. It's a summary of all of Mr. Manafort's companies and it 21 shows the gross receipts that came from those companies. 22 The second column shows what was reported on 23 Mr. Manafort's personal income tax returns as adjusted gross 24 income. 25 these various tax years on Mr. Manafort's taxable income. And then the next column shows what was reported on Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 43 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1022 1 Q. So can we -- go ahead. 2 A. The final column is how much in federal taxes did 3 Mr. Manafort pay in each of those years. 4 MR. DOWNING: I'm sorry. So can we scroll down to the total, 5 please, Jay? 6 BY MR. DOWNING: 7 Q. And, again, we have totals by year here, correct? 8 A. Yes, that's correct. 9 Q. So start -- going back to 2005, there was about 10 10.9 million in gross revenues, correct? 11 MR. ASONYE: Your Honor, at this point we're going 12 to object to the relevance of years beyond the charge years 13 2010 to 2014. 14 15 MR. DOWNING: day this goes back to 2005. 16 17 MR. ASONYE: Not the actual income. Not the actual income that's charged in the indictment, Your Honor. 18 THE COURT: 19 proceed. 20 MR. DOWNING: 21 Q. 22 correct? 23 A. I'll overrule the objection. You may So there's a year-by-year account from '05 to '15, Yes, that's correct. 24 25 I believe Mr. Asonye said the other MR. DOWNING: by year? And why don't we just scroll down year We -- we'll go to the total, Jay. To the next page, Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 44 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1023 1 please. 2 BY MR. DOWNING: 3 Q. 4 that 92.5 million was reported as gross revenue on the tax 5 returns of DMP and DMP International, correct? 6 A. That's correct. 7 Q. And those are federal United States tax returns, correct? 8 A. Yes, that's correct. 9 Q. The next number that you list there, it says, "Entity So in total for this period of time, you're reporting 10 business expenses." And those are the entity business 11 expenses that were deducted on those various federal tax 12 returns against the $92 million; is that correct? 13 A. That is correct. 14 Q. You also have other partner share. 15 A. I think in one of these years there was another partner 16 involved and so the income would have gone to their -- it 17 would have been reported on that partner's 1040, not 18 Mr. Manafort's. 19 Q. 20 what does that encompass? 21 at the bottom. 22 A. Would you like me to read that note? 23 Q. Sure. 24 A. So this 14 million that we're showing here is other 25 Manafort income, meaning not derived from these various What is that? And then you have other Paul Manafort 1040 items. And You have a note on that, I believe, Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 45 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1024 1 entities. 2 investment portfolio income. 3 Q. 4 reported on Mr. Manafort's personal federal income tax returns 5 over that period; is that correct? 6 A. That's correct. 7 Q. And the next total on there for 30 -- I'm sorry -- 8 $23,924,619, what is that? 9 A. That's the taxable income. 10 Q. And how do you get to taxable income from gross to 11 taxable? 12 A. 13 but the biggest, of course, is the Schedule A deductions. 14 Q. 15 on his federal income taxes from 2005 to 2015, paid $8,383,179 16 in federal income tax; is that correct? 17 A. 18 Includes W-2 wages, consulting income, and And that leaves $30,249,398 of adjusted gross income Can you explain that? There are a few adjustments, including health insurance, And on that amount of money you have that Mr. Manafort, That is correct. (A pause in the proceedings.) 19 MR. DOWNING: 20 Q. 21 Ms. -(A pause in the proceedings.) 22 MR. DOWNING: 23 Q. 24 about this Telmar loan, and I think you had said that if the 25 $1.9 million had been picked up as income in 2015 or -- 2015, Now, Ms. Laporta, last week you were asked some questions Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 46 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1025 1 I believe it was, that there could have been about $500,000 in 2 tax; is that correct? 3 A. Yes, that's correct. 4 Q. But it's a ballpark, you're giving a high-end number 5 saying -- 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. -- tax bracket -- 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Now, in terms of -- in terms of that number, you saw the 10 tax return, it was picked up in 2016, as you indicated on your 11 work sheet; is that correct? 12 at? 13 A. 14 case. 15 Q. Well, you saw the number on the income line, correct? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. I'd like to ask you a question. 18 the penalty for late payment is, that's calculated by the IRS, 19 of tax? 20 A. 21 penalties -- 22 Q. Sure. 23 A. -- including underpayment of taxes, and then if it's -- 24 Q. So let's talk about the underpayment of taxes. 25 go to -- take a look at Defendant's Exhibit 5? Yes. The tax return we just looked I don't know -- I mean, it seems like that's the Do you know what the -- So there are -- there are different fines and Can you Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 47 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1026 1 It's an IRS publication and it has a penalty for 2 late filing, and it says, "Penalty for late payment." Do you 3 see that No. 3? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And that charges .5 percent per month; is that correct? 6 A. Yes, that's correct. 7 Q. And with respect to the Telmar, assuming what you've seen 8 as being correct, that Telmar was not reported in 2015 as 9 income but was reported in 2016; is that correct? 10 A. That's correct. 11 Q. And the IRS would say, "Okay, well, if we think it should 12 have been paid in 2015, we want .5 percent per month for the 13 late payment"; is that correct? 14 A. Up to as much as 25 percent. 15 Q. Depending upon how long you went out; is that correct? 16 A. That's correct. 17 Q. But in this case let's say we went out just one year. 18 That's about $30,000, isn't it? 19 A. I can't do that in my head. 20 Q. Well, you could do it by month, right? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Why don't you try? 23 A. So, no, that's -- that's ballpark. 24 Q. That's ballpark, about $30,000. 25 have been additionally owed to the IRS for a late payment if, And that's what would Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 48 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1027 1 in fact, they prevailed; is that correct? 2 A. That's correct. 3 Q. So one other issue I wanted to talk about before we leave 4 Telmar. 5 up against the September filing date in 2016 was a question 6 of, why was KWC so off on the estimated taxes? 7 client be in a position this far into filing season to be -- 8 not know what the tax would be? It seems to -- part of the conversation about Telmar 9 Why would a So why don't we take a minute and talk about that? 10 Can you explain what estimated taxes are and what 11 you do as an accountant with respect to estimated taxes for a 12 client? 13 A. 14 is -- right. 15 Q. Go ahead. 16 A. Okay. 17 estimated taxes and how are they calculated? 18 Q. Yes. 19 A. So typically estimated taxes are calculated at the same 20 time that an extension would be prepared in April. 21 So you really asked me two questions, right? The first The first question was, how do we -- what are And the information that we have available, as 22 provided by the client, we estimate what the tax hit on that 23 is and then we ask, will the following year be better or the 24 same? 25 number by 4 and have the client pay in those estimated taxes If it's the same, we divide that -- we divide that Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 49 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1028 1 during the year. 2 And then the second question about when you get to 3 the -- when you -- based on what you've done in April for 4 extension purposes and then down to the final -- the filing of 5 the tax return, why is there a difference? 6 this instance you're asking how can we be so far off? 7 Q. 8 estimates you're at, you know, April 15th, sometimes the 9 following year and you're setting up for the next year, Well, I would ask you differently. And that -- in When you do your 10 there's a lot of unknowns, correct? 11 A. That's correct. 12 Q. But you generally use last year's numbers, correct? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And then you see if the client has any insight into 15 whether or not you're going to have a lot more income or a lot 16 less; is that correct? 17 A. That's correct. 18 Q. And then as the year goes on, you check in with the 19 client, I would imagine? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. And try to see if you can get some updates? 22 A. That's correct. 23 Q. And I don't know why, but for some reason for that tax 24 year, KWC didn't seem to note that there was going to be that 25 amount of income that had to be reported, and, therefore, Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 50 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1029 1 there was going to be additional tax that was going to have to 2 be paid that was not covered by the estimate; is that correct? 3 A. That's correct. 4 Q. Do you know how that happened? 5 happened? 6 A. Just lack of response to our questions. 7 Q. And -- and the person that you were dealing with with 8 respect to these kinds of things was Mr. Gates; is that 9 correct? Typically. Do you know why it 10 A. 11 Mr. Manafort was copied on those e-mails. 12 getting Rick's attention then I'd copy Mr. Manafort on e-mails 13 for requesting information. 14 Q. 15 is, the bookkeeper? 16 A. Yes, that is correct. 17 Q. And she's recording things, activity, as it occurs during 18 the year, correct? 19 A. 20 is, but we certainly relied on her information. 21 Q. 22 you were using the books and records to determine if you 23 needed to pay an additional tax, the tax payments would be 24 short? 25 A. Sure. But as I testified on Friday, often Or if I wasn't You also had another source of information, that I don't know that for sure how frequently her recording So if she was not up to date on the books and records and Yes, that's correct. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 51 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1030 1 Q. Okay. So the tax payments were short that year, were 2 they not? 3 A. That's correct. 4 Q. And you have experience dealing with clients on filing 5 deadlines, don't you? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Do clients have a tendency to get very upset when all of 8 a sudden they're told they have to cut a check for a few 9 hundred thousand dollars? 10 A. Yes, this is an usual -- 11 Q. Unusual filing. 12 Regardless of who may have caused the problem, it's 13 just one of those things that people are upset because they 14 usually want to plan for it, especially when it's a large 15 amount of money? 16 A. 17 That's correct. (A pause in the proceeding.) 18 Q. 19 the Peranova loan and the write-off of the Peranova loan. 20 So now I'd like to go back and talk a little bit about Again, the issue with the Peranova loan came up with 21 respect to an attempt by Mr. Manafort to borrow money from a 22 bank; is that correct? 23 A. That's correct. 24 Q. And had to do with some of his properties up in New York; 25 is that correct? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 52 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1031 1 A. Yes, that is. 2 Q. And the bank had a bunch of questions about 3 Mr. Manafort's balance sheet, correct? 4 A. Yes, that's true. 5 Q. The bank had made a determination that they weren't going 6 to use Mr. Manafort's income or P&L, profit and lost 7 statement, to determine whether or not they were going to 8 lend; is that correct? 9 A. That's correct. 10 Q. And they were looking at his assets and his liabilities, 11 correct? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. You'd call that a balance sheet? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. An issue came up about -- 16 THE COURT: I'm sorry, did you answer that question? 17 THE WITNESS: 18 THE COURT: Yes. All right. Next question. 19 MR. DOWNING: 20 Q. 21 liability, correct? 22 A. Yes, that's correct. 23 Q. Okay. 24 no, it's not a liability at this point in time; is that 25 correct? And an issue came up with respect to Peranova being a And what was being conveyed to the bank was that, Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 53 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1032 1 A. That's correct. 2 Q. Now, much like the issue that you talked about with 3 Telmar, if you're making a call whether or not something is a 4 loan or it's income, you're making a call, correct? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And in this case, the call was made that they were no 7 longer going to carry this as a loan, correct? 8 A. 9 forgiveness of debt. As I said to the bank, this is being represented to me as 10 Q. And that's important because you wouldn't know otherwise? 11 A. That's correct. 12 Q. Correct? 13 And you were being told by Mr. Gates this is what 14 happened, correct? 15 A. Yes, that's correct. 16 Q. But more importantly at that point in time, if, in fact, 17 Peranova was no longer an outstanding loan, it would not be 18 appropriate to tell a bank it was a liability, correct? 19 A. That's correct. 20 Q. And let's go to another issue. 21 monies that Mr. Manafort was owed, about $2.4 million from one 22 of his consulting contracts. 23 A. Yes, I do. 24 Q. And there was this question about, well, are we doing a 25 cash basis P&L or are we doing an accrual P&L? There was an issue about Do you remember that? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 54 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1033 1 A. That's correct. 2 Q. And the way you addressed it, you told the bank, well, 3 here is a cash basis P&L from the bookkeeper, correct? 4 A. That's correct. 5 Q. And I want you to know that my client also has an 6 accounts receivable that he believes he is going to collect by 7 November for $2.4 million, correct? 8 A. Yes, that's correct. 9 Q. So two separate issues. Here is the P&L cash basis, and 10 you should know my client believes he's got another asset? 11 A. That's correct. 12 Q. Correct? 13 There's nothing inappropriate about telling the bank 14 that someone owes you money, correct? 15 A. That is correct. 16 Q. And it's called an accounts receivable, correct? 17 A. That's what it's called, yes. 18 Q. But it's not going to show up on a cash P&L, a cash basis 19 P&L, correct? 20 A. That's correct. 21 Q. Why is that? 22 A. Because cash basis only records income that's been 23 received and not what's been earned but not received. 24 Q. 25 that the 2.4 million wasn't really owed as an accounts And you have no reason, as you sit here today, to believe Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 55 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1034 1 receivable? 2 A. 3 asked for contracts or invoices, but I never saw that. 4 Q. 5 seems like KWC asks for a lot of information, especially 6 contracts and loan documents that it never received; is that 7 correct? 8 A. That's correct. 9 Q. So this would be another instance of not getting what it I didn't have any evidence that -- to the contrary, I Well, it's interesting you should raise that issue. It 10 is you would like to have in your file? 11 A. That's correct. 12 Q. So one last thing I'd like to cover with you -- until, of 13 course, I convey with my colleagues and they tell me 14 everything I missed -- an issue came up, and we talked about 15 earlier, that you had reason to question the representations 16 of Mr. Gates, representations he made to you? 17 A. Yes, that's correct. 18 Q. About financial information that you were conveying to 19 other people, correct? 20 A. Yes, that's correct. 21 Q. About financial information that you would have to put on 22 tax returns? 23 A. Yes, that's correct. 24 Q. And you testified last week that you didn't want to rock 25 the boat, you didn't want to upset a client, I think, in sum Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 56 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1035 1 and substance is what you said about why you didn't raise an 2 issue; is that correct? 3 A. I did raise issues. 4 Q. I mean about Mr. Gates' credibility, about him giving you 5 false or misleading information, did you raise that issue? 6 A. Yes, I did with him. 7 Q. With Gates? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Okay. 10 A. That he didn't respond. 11 Q. He didn't respond. 12 that you were getting misleading information or incomplete 13 information from him; is that correct? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And you didn't get it? 16 A. No, I did not. 17 Q. And did you share that with Mr. Ayliff or other folks at 18 KWC? 19 A. 20 talked about it. 21 Q. 22 feeling about the representations he was getting from 23 Mr. Gates? 24 A. I feel that Philip also felt -- had that -- 25 Q. And at the time of dealing with various banks, this -- And I'm sure he reacted well to that? So you pointed out to him you thought I asked for clarification on that. I don't recall whether they would be copied or whether we We probably talked about it. Do you know if Mr. Ayliff, in particular, had a similar Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 57 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1036 1 this Telmar issue and Peranova, the e-mail was clear that you 2 were dealing with Mr. Gates. 3 Did you ever think about picking up the phone and 4 calling Mr. Manafort, either you personally or with 5 Mr. Ayliff, to let him know what your concerns were? 6 A. 7 clear that Mr. Manafort was aware of what was going on. 8 Q. But in this particular instance, you don't know? 9 A. That's correct. 10 Q. And were you surprised when Mr. Gates was telling you 11 that Mr. Manafort couldn't come up with the money to pay a 12 couple hundred thousand dollars in tax? 13 you? 14 A. 15 didn't know if this -- if these were conversations -- 16 Q. Of course. 17 A. -- that had happened in the past. 18 Q. Of course. 19 led to finding out that Mr. Gates was embezzling millions of 20 dollars from Mr. Manafort and his entities -- I did not do that. 23 24 25 Did that surprise Yes, but I had limited experience with the client, so I 21 22 I think that in most instances it was Well, what if you picked up the phone and it MR. ASONYE: Objection, calls for -- objection, Your Honor. THE COURT: Let him finish the question, and then you may object. THE WITNESS: I didn't hear. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 58 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1037 1 MR. ASONYE: 2 THE COURT: Your Honor -You don't have -- wait until he finishes 3 his question. 4 And don't answer -- I want to hear the objection and then I 5 may have you come to the bench if you need to, Mr. Asonye. 6 Re-ask your question starting at the beginning. What's your question. 7 MR. DOWNING: 8 Q. 9 Mr. Gates you knew that he had embezzled millions of dollars Ms. Laporta, if at the time you were dealing with 10 from Mr. Manafort unbeknownst to Mr. Manafort, would you have 11 picked up the phone and called Mr. Manafort? 12 MR. ASONYE: 13 THE COURT: 14 MR. ASONYE: 15 Objection. What's your objection? Assumes facts not in evidence, Your Honor. 16 THE COURT: I can't hear you. 17 MR. ASONYE: There are no facts of that in evidence. 18 MR. DOWNING: I have a good faith basis for asking 19 the question, and the Government knows facts will be coming 20 into evidence. 21 22 Mr. Gates is next up. THE COURT: I'll overrule the objection. You may answer. 23 THE WITNESS: If I had known -- 24 MR. DOWNING: Could the court reporter ask the 25 question back, please? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 59 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1038 1 (Audience laughter.) 2 (Reporter read back into the record.) 3 THE COURT: 4 I don't think that was the question. Try it again. 5 MR. DOWNING: I'm sorry, Your Honor. Did it quiet 6 down? 7 BY MR. DOWNING: 8 Q. 9 Telmar issue and Peranova, if at the time you learned that Ms. Laporta, if at the time you were dealing with the 10 Mr. Gates was embezzling millions of dollars from 11 Mr. Manafort, would you have picked up the phone, you or 12 Mr. Ayliff to let Mr. Manafort know that? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Would that have caused you to not trust anything that 15 Mr. Gates was telling you? 16 A. 17 scenario you've described, but, of course, if I knew there was 18 wrongdoing, then -- 19 Q. 20 accountant for how many years now? 21 A. Since '84. 22 Q. Since '84. 23 Yes. I don't know how that would happen, that whole So you raised an interesting point. You've been an You have a retainer agreement at KWC that says you 24 are not retained to conduct procedures to detect fraud, 25 illegalities, or defalcations; is that correct? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 60 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1039 1 A. That is correct. 2 Q. And is that because generally the two last people to know 3 about it are the accountants and the business owner? 4 A. Yes, that's correct. 5 Q. And unless you're specifically called in to do procedures 6 to detect fraud, you really won't know? 7 A. That's correct. 8 Q. But there's one thing you probably do know, given your 9 experience, when you have somebody on the inside of an 10 accounting system, in the inside of a business that is in 11 control of financial information, if that person is embezzling 12 funds, is that person usually the one of the most difficult to 13 get information from? 14 MR. ASONYE: Objection, Your Honor, because this 15 calls for speculation. 16 MR. DOWNING: 17 18 No, I'm asking her about a CPA -- as a CPA, her experience. MR. ASONYE: Your Honor, there's no foundation that 19 she's ever dealt with that type of scenario before. 20 for speculation. 21 22 23 THE COURT: I'll overrule it. It calls She can answer. If you don't know, simply say you don't know. THE WITNESS: That scenario you've just described is 24 what is taught in fraud related CP -- that's continuing 25 professional education. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 61 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1040 1 MR. DOWNING: 2 Q. 3 train you for these red flags, would you call them? 4 A. Yes, that's correct. 5 Q. And some of the red flags are difficulty in getting 6 information from that individual? 7 A. 8 not so much. 9 Q. Well, explain it on the audit side? 10 A. Well, on the audit side, it's a whole different world and 11 you're doing a risk assessment before you even see a number. 12 Q. 13 not the procedures. 14 information from that should have the information for you; is 15 that correct? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And you have reason to call into question what 18 information was given to you; is that correct? 19 A. That is correct. 20 Q. So these are some of the telltale sides of someone who 21 can be involved as an insider in an embezzlement; is that 22 correct? 23 A. And then continuing professional education for CPAs, they Yes. That's normally on the audit side; on the tax side, I'm talking about the behavior that you're looking for, But somebody who is difficult to get That is correct. 24 MR. DOWNING: 25 THE COURT: No further questions. Let me have counsel quickly at the Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 62 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1041 1 bench, please. 2 (Bench Conference.) 3 THE COURT: 4 5 Mr. Downing, I didn't understand what you meant by "there would be evidence of embezzlement." MR. DOWNING: The Government has produced statements 6 of Mr. Gates regarding embezzlement. 7 records from various accounts which Mr. Gates was unauthorized 8 to take monies out of and embezzled funds, and that's 9 something that that's been given to us by the Government and 10 11 We have accounting have put us on notice of the embezzlement. THE COURT: So is that what you meant when you said 12 you had a good faith basis to believe that he had embezzled 13 money from Mr. Manafort? 14 MR. DOWNING: 15 THE COURT: That's correct, Your Honor. Now, on another subject, you didn't ask 16 this witness -- she testified in her direct examination what 17 she took responsibility for. 18 about what she took responsibility for, or what consequences 19 she faced, or anything of that sort. 20 Is that right? 21 MR. DOWNING: 22 THE COURT: 23 MR. DOWNING: 24 THE COURT: 25 You didn't go into that at all, That is correct. And that's a judgment that you-all made? Correct, Your Honor. Is she still an accountant? Is she still a CPA? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 63 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1042 1 MR. DOWNING: I believe she is. 2 think the Government knows better. 3 she was suspended from her firm. 4 5 THE COURT: I think over the weekend I don't know in what terms. But you're not going into that? And you don't plan to go into it for sure? 6 MR. ASONYE: 7 THE COURT: 8 I believe that -- I No, Your Honor. And he didn't ask whether you-all had made any deal with her about that. 9 10 MR. ASONYE: About her -- THE COURT: Consequences. Typically when a 11 cooperating witness cooperates, typically, they cooperate, but 12 there are consequences. 13 they get a reduction in their sentence. 14 case that there are no consequences. 15 wanted to sit with her to assert objections to questions, 16 which, of course, I didn't permit. 17 18 MR. DOWNING: It seems odd in this And, indeed, her lawyer And, Your Honor, I guess we believe THE COURT: made. Yes, you can. But it's a judgment you I'm not going to ask the question. 21 Did you want to say something? 22 MR. ANDRES: 23 THE COURT: 24 MR. ANDRES: 25 And that we can use that immunity in our closing. 19 20 They plead guilty and so forth. consequences. May I, Judge? You may. It's not right to assume there were no Whether they get brought out on direct or not Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 64 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1043 1 is a different issue. 2 that Ms. Laporta is telling the truth. 3 no -- I just -- it doesn't mean that we didn't -- there 4 weren't consequences and with her own employment -- 5 6 THE COURT: Mr. Downing wants the jury to believe What did I miss? So, obviously, there's What are the consequences? 7 MR. ANDRES: 8 sure. 9 things. Well, she has licensing issues, I'm She just testified in public that she's lied about That doesn't mean that the accounting board or these 10 other entities, which have now been alerted to, may take 11 action. 12 Department of Justice. 13 14 THE COURT: MR. ANDRES: THE COURT: 18 MR. ANDRES: 19 THE COURT: MR. ANDRES: 22 THE COURT: 24 25 No, no. The only agreement that we Is in the -Immunity order. It's not in the order, it's in the agreement you have with her. 21 23 And, of course, there's no Government have -- 17 20 We don't control that within the agreement to help her avoid that? 15 16 We don't know. her to testify. I just signed -- We don't have an agreement with her. All right. I signed an order requiring There is no agreement? MR. ANDRES: The agreement was to get her immunity from the Court, to apply to the Court for -Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 65 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1044 1 THE COURT: 2 MR. DOWNING: 3 THE COURT: 4 MR. ASONYE: 5 THE COURT: 6 MR. ASONYE: That is correct, Your Honor. 7 MR. ANDRES: Yes. 8 MR. DOWNING: 9 THE COURT: 10 right. Thank you. 11 12 That's the only agreement? Yes. I did not give her immunity. That is correct. I required her to testify. Absolutely. Thank you, Your Honor. Let's be very clear about it. MR. ASONYE: Your Honor, I was going to ask if it's time for -- an appropriate time for a bathroom break. THE COURT: 14 MR. ASONYE: 15 (End of bench conference.) 16 THE COURT: MR. ASONYE: 19 THE COURT: 20 MR. ASONYE: 22 23 Oh, okay. Yes, I'll do that. Thank you, Your Honor. All right. Is there any redirect, Mr. Asonye? 18 21 All Mr. Downing -- 13 17 You did. minutes. Yes, there is, Your Honor. How long? You know, it could be about 15, 20 15 minutes. THE COURT: All right. I take it you would appreciate a break now. 24 MR. ASONYE: 25 THE COURT: That would be helpful, Your Honor. Pass your books to the right. The court Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 66 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1045 1 2 security officer will collect them, maintain their security. Ms. Laporta, you may step down. Remember, you may 3 not discuss your testimony with anyone at all. 4 that includes attorneys? 5 THE WITNESS: 6 THE COURT: 7 8 9 Yes, I understand. All right. You understand Thank you. We will reconvene at 5 minutes after 3:00. I hope -- you got your lunches today, those of you who wanted them. Good. 10 And there will be soft drinks, Mr. Flood? 11 THE CSO: 12 THE COURT: Yes, sir. Good. Remember to refrain from 13 discussing the matter with anyone or among yourselves and also 14 undertaking any kind of investigation at all. 15 THE CSO: 16 THE COURT: 17 (Recess.) 18 THE COURT: 19 20 Quiet. You may follow Mr. Flood out. All right. Before we begin -- ladies and gentlemen, you may be seated for just a moment. Before we begin, in the last session, for the second 21 time in this case, because of something that was said, at 22 least a half a dozen to a dozen or more people jumped up and 23 ran out of here. 24 (Audience laughter.) 25 THE COURT: Making noises as they did. It happened Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 67 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1046 1 once before. 2 and mildly amusing, especially since there was no reason at 3 all for it, and this time it was not as amusing and equally or 4 more disruptive. 5 The first time it happened, it was disruptive You may not do that. If you cause a disruption, I'm 6 going to have you excluded. 7 leave the courtroom, yes, of course, you may do so. 8 in a quiet, orderly way, not in the way in which we've seen it 9 done twice. 10 11 It's that simple. If you want to But do so Let's not have that again. All right. Let's have the jury brought in. We'll continue with the redirect examination of the witness. 12 Did you have something, Mr. Asonye? 13 MR. ASONYE: Just if Your Honor could remind -- we, 14 again, ran into some of the jurors in the elevator at the 15 break. 16 17 THE COURT: that, Mr. Asonye. Oh, yes, you're quite right. I will do Thank you for the reminder. 18 (Jury in.) 19 THE COURT: 20 Ladies and gentlemen, you will, on occasion, see All right. You may be seated. 21 lawyers on behalf of the Government or the defendant, either 22 in the hallways, here, or on the street or walking across to 23 the hotel or whatever. 24 acknowledge you or say hello, and that's entirely appropriate. 25 And they will typically not They are told by the Court not to discuss or not to Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 68 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1047 1 have any conversations or contact with any of the jurors. 2 And, indeed, everyone should avoid that, but the lawyers, in 3 particular. 4 as being rude. 5 abiding my instructions. 6 So if that happened, don't think of the lawyers Think of them, instead, as having adhered or All right. Let's have Ms. Laporta return and, 7 Mr. Asonye, you may do your redirect examination, which you 8 say should be about 30 minutes? 9 MR. ASONYE: 10 And hopefully I can do it in less, Your Honor. 11 THE COURT: 12 (Witness seated.) 13 THE COURT: 14 Good. Ms. Laporta, you'll recall you're still under oath. 15 THE WITNESS: 16 THE COURT: Yes, I do, Your Honor. And you may resume the stand. REDIRECT EXAMINATION 17 18 BY MR. ASONYE: 19 Q. 20 remember him asking you some questions about 29 Howard Street 21 and whether there was some confusion about whether it was a 22 rental? Good afternoon. 23 Ms. Laporta, Mr. Downing, do you Do you remember those questions? 24 A. Yes, I do. 25 Q. Okay. Were you confused as to whether 29 Howard Street Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 69 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1048 1 was a rental? 2 A. Was I confused that it was? 3 Q. Were you confused? 4 A. No, I think the only confusion was whether or -- who was 5 living there when another name was thrown out there. 6 Q. 7 has already been admitted. In fact, let me show you Government Exhibit 156, which 8 MR. ASONYE: 9 THE COURT: 10 BY MR. ASONYE: 11 Q. Your Honor, may we publish? Yes, you may. And you received -- if you look at the middle e-mail? 12 You received this e-mail from Rick Gates, and did 13 Rick Gates ever express any confusion about the 29 Howard 14 Street, whether it was a rental in 2015? 15 A. No. 16 Q. In fact, in Paragraph 2, what does he say about how it's 17 used in 2015? 18 A. He said rental clearly. 19 Q. All right. 20 337L, which is the tax return for MC Soho, 29 Howard Street in 21 2015. 22 the top. 23 And if we can pull up Government Exhibit And if we could turn to Page 14, if we could zoom in on Was there any confusion about the number of days 24 this property was rented out for when the tax return was 25 filed? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 70 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1049 1 A. No, there was not. 2 Q. Is the -- how many days was it rented for? 3 A. It was available 365 days. 4 Q. Okay. 5 available for 365 days. 6 jury, what does it say? 7 A. 8 For each rental property -- real estate property listed, 9 report the number of days rented at fair rental value and days In fact, if you read Line 1, you said it was (As read): Could you actually read Line 1 to the "Show the type and address of each property. 10 with personal use." 11 Q. 12 value; is that correct? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And how many days was it rented? 15 A. 365. 16 Q. How many days was it personal? 17 A. None. 18 Q. If we can take that down. 19 All right. So that says days rented at fair rental Thank you. Now, Mr. Downing also asked you some questions about 20 your expertise in preparing tax returns; is that correct? 21 A. That's correct. 22 Q. And what is your expertise? 23 A. Expertise is accounting and auditing, but experience 24 includes business and personal tax returns. 25 Q. Now, did it take you an -- did you need to be an expert Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 71 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1050 1 in order to determine that the Peranova letter -- forgiveness 2 letter for $1.5 million was backdated? 3 expert to figure that out? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Did you need to be an expert to know that you can't 6 disguise income as a loan? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Was that complicated? 9 A. No. 10 Q. Did you need to be an expert to know that calling 11 $900,000 from Telmar was wrong and not right? 12 A. The $900,000? 13 Q. Calling that a loan instead of income? 14 A. Correct. 15 Q. Did you need to be an expert to know that that was wrong? 16 A. No. 17 Q. Now, Mr. Downing asked you about some tax returns from 18 KWC going all the way back to 2005; is that correct? 19 A. That is correct. 20 Q. Now, you testified that you signed the 2014 and the 2015 21 return for DMP International; is that correct? 22 A. That is correct. 23 Q. Did you sign the 2010, '11, '12, or '13 returns? 24 A. No, I did not sign those returns. 25 Q. Did you even work on the 2010, '11, or '12 returns? Did you need to be an Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 72 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1051 1 A. No, I did not. 2 THE COURT: Did you work on the 2013 return? 3 THE WITNESS: I did not work on them. There's -- 4 it's possible I was copied on e-mails in that transition 5 period, but I don't recall. 6 7 THE COURT: them, what do you mean? 8 9 So you when you say you didn't work on THE WITNESS: I don't -- I don't recall working on anything but '14 or '15. 10 THE COURT: Next question. 11 BY MR. ASONYE: 12 Q. 13 approve the 2013 tax return for Mr. Manafort? 14 A. No, I did not. 15 Q. So with respect to the tax returns that are at issue in 16 this case, that are charged in this case, what is the one year 17 that you worked on? 18 A. 2014 and 2015. 19 Q. Now, Mr. Downing asked you about DMP International's 2016 20 return. 21 A. No, I did not. 22 Q. Did your firm work on that tax return? 23 A. No, we did not. 24 Q. Okay. 25 A. No, I have not. In effect, with respect to 2013, did you review or Did you work on that return? Have you ever seen that tax return before today? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 73 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1052 1 Q. And you indicated during your cross-examination that 2 $1.9 million from Telmar was apparently picked up as income in 3 that 2016 tax return, correct? 4 A. That's correct. 5 Q. Okay. 6 actually filed? 7 A. I don't recall when it was actually filed. 8 Q. If you could take a look at Defendant's two thousand- -- 9 I'm sorry, Defendant's 4? And did you recall when that 2016 tax return was 10 A. Oh, sorry. 11 Q. Okay. 12 in this investigation? 13 A. I don't remember. 14 Q. Was it -- was it prior to October 2017? 15 A. I don't believe so. 16 Q. Now, let me show you -- Mr. Downing asked you about 17 Defendant's Exhibit 2, and if we could actually put that up on 18 the ELMO. 19 October 16, 2017. Now, when were you interviewed for the first time Maybe a year ago. I honestly don't remember. And did you testify that you prepared this document? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. It's just based on tax returns that are in the files for 23 those years for those entities. 24 Q. 25 provided by Heather Washkuhn and her firm? How did you prepare this document? And did those tax returns rely on the GL's that were Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 74 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1053 1 A. Presumably. 2 MR. DOWNING: 3 return rely on a general ledger? 4 THE COURT: Objection, Your Honor. How can a tax I'll overrule the objection. But you 5 may, of course, in a recross-examination, clarify that. 6 answered the question. 7 MR. ASONYE: Oh, I'm sorry. 8 hear her response, Your Honor. 9 THE COURT: 10 I didn't -- I didn't Well, maybe I missed it as well. You may re-ask it. 11 BY MR. ASONYE: 12 Q. 13 prepared, did they rely on the information on the GL's 14 provided by Heather Washkuhn and her firm? 15 A. 16 entities, the general ledger. 17 Q. Okay. Ms. Laporta, the tax returns that you -- that KWC That's the initial representation of the activity for the And if -- 18 19 She's THE COURT: Does that mean that everything is accepted without question? 20 THE WITNESS: 21 THE COURT: No, it does not. Next question. 22 BY MR. ASONYE: 23 Q. 24 didn't tell you about it, was it reflected in the client's tax 25 return? Now, if income wasn't included on the GL and the client Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 75 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1054 1 A. And which tax year are we talking about? I'm sorry to be 2 confused. 3 Q. 4 Mr. Manafort. 5 A. Okay. 6 Q. If you -- if you didn't see a payment or income on the GL 7 and -- or -- and Mr. Manafort didn't tell you about it, was it 8 reflected on his tax return? 9 A. No, I don't think so, if I'm following correctly. 10 Q. And, in fact, were you aware of any foreign accounts that 11 were under the control of Mr. Manafort? 12 A. No, I was not ever aware of those foreign accounts. 13 Q. So did your tax returns that you prepared reflect any 14 payments into those foreign accounts? 15 A. No. 16 Q. And if payments were made out of those foreign accounts 17 on behalf of Mr. Manafort to U.S. vendors, would that have 18 been reflected in your tax returns? 19 A. 20 vendors? 21 Q. 22 didn't know about to a U.S. vendor on Mr. Manafort's behalf, 23 would that have been reflected as income on the tax return 24 that you prepared? 25 A. The -- let's just take 2014, the year that you signed for Okay. If payments had been made from foreign accounts to If a payment was made from a foreign account that you Well, I'm not completely following, but I think Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 76 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1055 1 if overseas accounts were used to pay vendors of the 2 company -- 3 Q. 4 Mr. Manafort? 5 A. 6 if they'd be expenses on his behalf or -- 7 Q. So -- 8 A. -- it'd be -- it would be income. 9 what the -- ultimately, if there was payments made from 10 another account, that income would need to be picked up 11 somewhere. 12 Q. And you're not aware of any such payments, are you? 13 A. No, I'm not. 14 Q. So any such payments are not reflected on Defendant's 15 Exhibit 2, are they? 16 A. That's correct. 17 Q. And, in fact, let's look a little closer at Defendant's 18 Exhibit 2. Vendors of Mr. Manafort, personal vendors for Oh, I didn't know of any. 19 And if they were, I don't know What your -- I think Now, if you -- Mr. Downing asked you about the total 20 amount of gross receipts between 2005 and 2015, and you said 21 92 million on the second page; is that right? 22 A. Yes, that's correct. 23 Q. Okay. 24 particular years, if we can do a little bit of addition 25 together. But I want you to actually focus on five If you could add the gross receipts for 2010 Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 77 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1056 1 through 2014 that was reported that you-all picked up, I'd 2 like you to tell the jury what the total of that is, okay? 3 So we're going to start for 2010. 4 reported as gross receipts by Davis Manafort in 2010? 5 A. Approximately $6.5 million dollars. 6 Q. Okay. Let me just keep track of that. 7 THE COURT: 8 MR. ASONYE: 9 And how much was What is this? Your Honor, I'm just -- I'm just trying to -- 10 (Audience laughter.) 11 THE COURT: 12 You don't testify. 13 BY MR. ASONYE: 14 Q. All right. You don't -- no, take it off of there. 6.5 -- 15 THE COURT: Yes, all right is correct. 16 Go head, Mr. Asonye. 17 BY MR. ASONYE: 18 Q. 19 Manafort Partners? 20 A. 5.3 million. 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. For 2012, how much is reported in gross receipts for DMP 24 International? 25 A. In 2011, how much is reported as gross receipts for Davis So are we now at 11.8 million? Seven million-three. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 78 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1057 1 Q. Okay. 2 A. That sounds right. 3 Q. Okay. 4 A. 4.5 million. 5 Q. Does that take you to 23.6 million approximately? 6 A. Approximately. 7 Q. And then the final year, how much is reported for DMP 8 International in 2014? 9 A. 7.4 million. 10 Q. Does that get you to around 31 million? 11 A. Right. 12 Q. Okay. 13 A. Excuse me? 14 Q. Is that less than $60 million -- 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. -- for the one million that's reported? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Now, let me show you Defense Exhibit 3. 19 about this as well. 20 So are we now at 19.1 million? 11.8 plus 7.3? And how much is reported for 2014 -- 2013? Is that less than 60 million? You were asked And can you explain to the jury again what this 21 exhibit is? 22 A. 23 from wire transfers during 2005 and 2015. 24 dates and the amounts and which entities received those 25 monies -- that money. Yes. This exhibit is a summary of loans that were made And we show the And -- and then we show of those loans Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 79 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1058 1 how much was recognized in revenue, how much was distributed 2 to the patterns, how much was written off as a worthless 3 investment, and the year of -- the loans were repaid or 4 converted. 5 Q. Okay. So -- 6 THE COURT: 7 THE WITNESS: 8 THE COURT: 9 Did you do this? Yes. Did you do this as what, in order to help you get the return accurate? 10 THE WITNESS: 11 THE COURT: 12 THE WITNESS: 13 THE COURT: 14 MR. ASONYE: No, this was a request of the clients. From Mr. Gates? No, from Mr. Manafort. What was -- you may proceed. Thank you, Your Honor. 15 BY MR. ASONYE: 16 Q. 17 are listed on this exhibit. 18 19 I want to ask you first about some of the entities that THE COURT: But is it accurate based on what you saw? 20 THE WITNESS: This was developed from tax returns 21 that were already filed. 22 in the preparation of this schedule. 23 THE COURT: 24 BY MR. ASONYE: 25 Q. So there were no judgments made here Next question. Now, Yiakora Ventures Limited, do you see that, Yiakora Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 80 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1059 1 Ventures Limited, in the middle? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Okay. 4 relationship with Davis Manafort Partners was? 5 A. 6 but I believe they were all -- they were all -- I didn't know 7 the relationship between them. 8 9 What was your understanding of what that entity's I believe -- and I wasn't familiar back in those years, I'd be guessing. I know the two I dealt with, Peranova and Telmar, were customers of DMP International. 10 Q. 11 Mr. Manafort? 12 And you didn't understand Peranova to be controlled by THE COURT: 13 BY MR. ASONYE: 14 Q. 15 You're leading. Did you understand -- did you understand -THE COURT: What, if anything. 16 BY MR. ASONYE: 17 Q. 18 Peranova was controlled by Mr. Manafort? 19 A. No -- no knowledge of that. 20 Q. And what about for Yiakora? 21 A. I don't -- I wasn't involved with Yiakora, I don't think. 22 Q. And -- 23 A. I mean, I know I wasn't. 24 Q. Now, there's a name at the top, Deripaska. 25 anything, did Mr. Manafort tell you about $10 million in loans What, if anything, did you understand about whether What, if Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 81 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1060 1 from Mr. Deripaska? 2 A. 3 with some explanations or maybe they came from the general 4 ledger. 5 or entity where that was coming from. 6 Q. What did Mr. Manafort tell you about a Russian NGO? 7 A. Nothing. 8 Q. Now, this -- the title of this document is called "Loans 9 From Wire Transfers." 10 Nothing. We were just using numbers and maybe he came in I don't remember where the client or customer listing Why did -- why did you label this document "Loans 11 From Wire Transfers"? 12 A. 13 balance sheets, as loans for each of these years. 14 simply every Schedule L for all the entities that are listed 15 here. 16 Q. 17 10 million and the 8 million from Yiakora, do you see that -- 18 those loans ever being picked up as income in any subsequent 19 year? 20 A. All I know are when Telmar was picked up as income. 21 Q. But do you know of any time that the $10 million in loans 22 from Deripaska was picked up as income? 23 A. 24 of 7 million. 25 wait. We were going from what was reported on tax returns, the So it was Now, the loans I asked you about from Deripaska, the I don't know that. It would be in the recognized income And I don't have the details of that. That's not true. Oh, 7 million -- recognizes income. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 82 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1061 1 And which two are you asking about? 2 Q. Well, let's first start with Deripaska. 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Do you see the $10 million purportedly loaned from 5 Deripaska ever being picked up as income? 6 THE COURT: 7 MR. ASONYE: 8 THE COURT: 9 What do you mean by "ever"? Ever. Well, have you seen any returns after 2016? 10 THE WITNESS: 11 THE COURT: No, I have not. All right. So that's all she can say. 12 BY MR. ASONYE: 13 Q. 14 were made -- supposedly made in 2006? For any return that you've ever seen these loans 15 16 THE COURT: course, it isn't there. 17 18 Well, if she hasn't seen a return, of MR. ASONYE: For any return that she's worked on or seen. 19 THE COURT: All right. That's an appropriate 20 question. You may ask that. 21 BY MR. ASONYE: 22 Q. 23 loans from Deripaska being picked up as income? 24 A. 25 over here in the columns to the right. Since 2006, have you seen the $10 million in supposed I'm sorry, I'm reading the disposition of those loans And it looks like the Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 83 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1062 1 loans were distributed, reported as distributions, and to 2 another partner, and there was a write-off of a worthless 3 security. 4 So I don't see it here where its been paid off, no. 5 Q. And, in fact, if you look at your other -- the other 6 chart that you prepared, which was Mr. Manafort's income that 7 year -- if we could flash that up quickly -- Defendant's 8 Exhibit 2. 9 Do you see any income that is reported from 10 Deripaska? 11 A. No, I don't see any. 12 Q. And then let's take a look at Yiakora. 13 supposedly $1.969 million in loans from Yiakora on Defendant's 14 Exhibit 3; isn't that right? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And do you see that on Defendant's Exhibit 2 ever being 17 picked up as income? 18 A. 19 schedule I prepared on loans -- 20 Q. Sure. 21 A. -- the 1.9, if you go to recognized income, it appears to 22 have happened and it says, "Year 2016 to be recognized in 23 income in 2016." 24 Q. 25 you see that being picked up as income? Is there Well, if we can stick with the loan document, the And when Mr. Downing showed you that 2016 tax return, did Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 84 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1063 1 A. I did not. 2 Q. Now, Ms. Laporta, in order to call something a loan, do 3 you have to have an intent to actually repay it? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Can you call something a loan when it's actually income? 6 A. No. 7 Q. If you do that, if you call something a loan when its 8 income, is that fraud? 9 A. It could be considered fraud. 10 Q. Now, let me ask you, Mr. Downing asked you about the 11 Telmar loan, isn't that right, or supposed loan? 12 A. That's correct. 13 Q. Was Mr. Manafort's 2014 tax return accurate when he 14 called the $900,000 a loan and not income? 15 A. No, it was not. 16 Q. And so is -- was Mr. Manafort's 2014 tax return still 17 false for 2014 even if he picked it up as income two years 18 later? 19 A. Yes, that's correct. 20 THE COURT: 21 MR. ASONYE: 22 THE COURT: Anything further? Just a little bit, Your Honor. All right. 23 BY MR. ASONYE: 24 Q. 25 about your representations to the bank about $2.4 million in Mr. Downing -- do you recall when Mr. Downing asked you Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 85 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1064 1 accrual income for Mr. Manafort? 2 A. Yes, I do. 3 Q. Okay. 4 about using an accrual P&L; is that correct? 5 A. That's correct. 6 Q. Now, to show as income on an accrual P&L -- And I think you said there's nothing inappropriate 7 THE COURT: 8 MR. ASONYE: 9 Go ahead and finish your question. I haven't even finished my thought, but, yes. 10 BY MR. ASONYE: 11 Q. 12 When is income recognized on an accrual basis P&L? MR. DOWNING: Objection, Your Honor. The question 13 to Ms. Laporta earlier had to do with the cash basis P&L and 14 then accounts receivable. 15 an accrual based P&L. 16 THE COURT: I did not ask her a question about Well, I'll overrule the objection. 17 you might use those words. 18 Go ahead, Mr. Asonye. 19 BY MR. ASONYE: 20 Q. For an accrual based P&L, when is income recognized? 21 A. In the year. But It might be better, more accurate. 22 THE COURT: Haven't we been over this? 23 Let's not -- 24 (A pause in the proceedings.) 25 THE COURT: Let us not cover ground that has already Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 86 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1065 1 been covered. 2 BY MR. ASONYE: 3 Q. 4 accounts receivable for Mr. Manafort? 5 A. No, I did not. 6 Q. Did you ask for it? 7 A. Yes, I did. 8 Q. And in that case were you dealing with Mr. Manafort 9 directly? Did you receive any evidence that the $2.4 million was an 10 A. Yes, I was. 11 Q. And did you ever get it from him? 12 A. No, I did not. 13 Q. Did he tell you why? 14 A. No. 15 MR. ASONYE: Nothing further, Your Honor. 16 THE COURT: 17 MR. DOWNING: 18 THE COURT: Mr. Downing, any recross based on that? Brief. All right, sir. That's the magic word. RECROSS-EXAMINATION 19 20 MR. DOWNING: 21 Q. 22 just asked, the Schedule L is the balance sheet on a tax 23 return; is that correct? 24 A. That is correct. 25 Q. And the schedule you put together that you were just Ms. Laporta, with respect to the questions that you were Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 87 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1066 1 talking about when it looked at the Schedule L's for the tax 2 returns for DMP and DMP International from '05 to '15, 3 correct? 4 A. That is correct. 5 Q. And can you explain from year to year on those 6 Schedule L's, do they have a beginning balance for the items 7 on the balance sheet? 8 A. Yes, they do. 9 Q. And do they have an ending balance? 10 A. Yes, they do. 11 Q. And as part of your preparation of the tax returns, a 12 balance sheet, in fact, has to balance, correct? 13 A. That is correct. 14 Q. And what does that mean? 15 A. That the assets have to equal the liabilities and equity. 16 Q. And with respect to a loan account, from a year-to-year 17 basis, for a loan to go off of the balance sheet, either 18 somebody had to repay it, correct? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Or it had to be reclassified; is that correct? 21 A. That is correct. 22 Q. They don't magically disappear, do they? 23 A. No, they don't. 24 MR. DOWNING: 25 THE COURT: No further questions. All right. Thank you. You may step Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 88 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1067 1 down. You may be excused. 2 Call your next witness. 3 (Witness excused.) 4 MR. ASONYE: The Government calls Paula Liss. 5 MR. ZEHNLE: Your Honor, may I be heard? 6 THE COURT: 7 MR. ZEHNLE: 8 THE COURT: 9 Yes. At the bench? Yes. All right. Keep Ms. Liss outside for just a few minutes. 10 (Bench Conference.) 11 THE COURT: 12 MR. ZEHNLE: 13 It is my understanding that through Special Yes, Mr. Zehnle? Good afternoon, Your Honor. 14 Agent Liss that the Government intends to introduce Government 15 Exhibit 117. 16 That's what we were advised of. And the defense has an objection to Government 17 Exhibit 117 both for relevancy under 401 and 403 analysis and 18 under -- you know, basically stating that it's irrelevant for 19 many, many purposes. 20 It's a composite exhibit. It deals with more than a 21 dozen separate individuals and entities and purports to state 22 that no FBAR reports were filed for any of these individuals 23 or entities. 24 The defendant's objection -- 25 THE COURT: Let me get the report. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 89 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1068 1 (A pause in the proceedings.) 2 THE COURT: 3 4 Tell me what you think these purport to be, Mr. Zehnle. MR. ZEHNLE: These are essentially certifications 5 from the FinCEN, Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, stating 6 that a search was done for records relating to the filing of 7 foreign bank reports. 8 of January 1, 2001 through May 25th of this year, 2018. 9 And it purports to do so for the period The defense's objection, Your Honor, is that in 10 Counts 11 through 14 of the superseding indictment, the 11 Government has charged Mr. Manafort, and Mr. Manafort alone, 12 for failing to file a foreign bank account report for each of 13 the years 2011, '12, '13, and '14. 14 So the basis for the objection are multiple. 15 Number one, out of these -- and I counted them, I 16 believe there's 14, Your Honor. 17 Out of more of a dozen of these records, the only ones that 18 relate to Mr. Manafort appears to be the first page of the 19 exhibit, Government 117. 20 There's more than a dozen. In addition, the search purports to state that it 21 was done for a period going all the way back to 2001 and 22 continuing all the way up to May 25th of this year, 2018. 23 None of these things have relevance to the four charges 24 related solely to Mr. Manafort with respect to the failure to 25 file the FBARs. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 90 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1069 1 And, in fact, under 401 and 403 analysis, it seems 2 that the Government was trying to suggest that he had a duty 3 or a responsibility or an obligation to file these things 4 going back all these years when, in fact, no evidence has been 5 adduced to that whatsoever. 6 THE COURT: 7 MR. ASONYE: What's your response? Well, Your Honor, these are all -- 8 these not only Mr. Manafort, but all his related entities. We 9 just saw a chart where he's talking about, I guess, loans from 10 foreign sources for an account that is an affiliate of his. 11 We, of course, to check, A, to show that there was no absence 12 of mistake to show that: 13 percent partner, filed the FBAR. 14 check. 15 Well, maybe his wife, another 50 We, of course, had to go and And in addition to -THE COURT: Well, maybe you had to check, but I'm 16 not sure it's admissible. 17 not the ones accused of it. 18 of -- a bit of a smear. 19 record that he checked "no" on his tax returns; is that right? 20 MR. ASONYE: Because that -- these people are And it has -- it has the effect But you have already evidence in the Yeah, but this is an independent and 21 different requirement. The tax return is one requirement. 22 There's a separate statute of a partner that actually filed 23 the FBAR with a different agent. 24 Secondly, Your Honor -- 25 THE COURT: But it only accuses him of failing to do Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 91 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1070 1 it. 2 MR. ASONYE: 3 THE COURT: Well, the -Do you intend to argue that the 4 Government has not proven that because they didn't do it 5 on evidence -- that -- that John Hannah, LLC, did not file 6 a -- an FBAR? 7 8 MR. ZEHNLE: Yes, Your Honor. That's my point. There's no evidence that's been adduced. 9 THE COURT: No. Do you intend to argue to the jury 10 that they failed because they didn't show that John Hannah, 11 LLC, did not file an FBAR? 12 MR. ASONYE: Your Honor. 13 MR. ANDRES: No, Your Honor. 14 (Court reporter interruption.) 15 THE COURT: Yes, she can only get one of us at a MR. ASONYE: Your Honor, the other thing that's 16 time. 17 18 incredibly important here, the defense -- the parties just 19 agreed to a stipulation where we're going to get into the fact 20 that Mr. Manafort and one of his entities responded to the 31 21 subpoenas and these are Mr. Manafort's -- DMPs foreign 22 accounts. 23 And there's no FBAR filing for DMP as well. 24 THE COURT: 25 Well, let me see if I can get my fingers -- or my arms around this. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 92 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1071 1 2 Who is John Hannah, LLC? It's a name I've never even heard in the case so far. 3 MR. ASONYE: It is, Your Honor. It's one of 4 Mr. Manafort's entities. 5 number of entities received these foreign loans, supposed 6 foreign loans. 7 THE COURT: 8 MR. ASONYE: 9 In fact, if I can grab that chart, a Jesand Investments. These are Manaforts. And he is a member of these entities or his children are a member of these 10 entities. But most of them -- I believe all of them are. 11 there may be a way. 12 about it. 13 Honor. But This is the first time we're hearing I can tell you about the ones we care about, Your 14 THE COURT: 15 MR. ASONYE: All right. We care about Paul Manafort, Kathleen 16 Manafort. 17 more about Rick Gates than we do, but -- Davis Manafort 18 matters and DMP International. 19 Those are the most important ones that are critical to this 20 case. 21 foreign accounts and controlling those accounts and that he 22 never filed a FBAR for any of those. 23 The rest we can -- 24 25 That's on their tax return. They probably care Davis Manafort Partners. The evidence about all of those parties actually having THE COURT: Just a minute. That's highly relevant. I want to get a copy of the indictment. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 93 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1072 1 2 MR. ZEHNLE: Your Honor, if you want to just look at mine. 3 THE COURT: No. 4 (A pause in the proceedings.) 5 THE COURT: 6 MR. NANAVATI: 7 THE COURT: All right. Mr. Zehnle -- Yes, Your Honor. -- do you intend to argue that the 8 Government fails in its allegations on the FBAR, because they 9 didn't cover all of these various other entities? 10 MR. NANAVATI: No, Your Honor. My focus is really 11 if we had -- if they had produced a document that simply said 12 Mr. Manafort did not file -- there's no record of filing FBARs 13 for the years 2011 through 2014, we wouldn't be standing here. 14 THE COURT: 15 MR. ASONYE: Well, you have that, don't you? We have it for those -- no, we don't. 16 What we have, Your Honor, is each entity and they do one 17 search. 18 They cover an entire period. THE COURT: I don't care how they do it. Do you 19 have evidence that Mr. Manafort didn't file FBARs on these 20 four years, which is the crime he's accused of committing? 21 MR. ASONYE: 22 THE COURT: 23 we'll end with that. 24 25 MR. ASONYE: Yes. I mean, we have -- All right. Then let's offer that and Your Honor, it's also absolutely relevant that the company, DMP International did not -Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 94 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1073 1 THE COURT: 2 MR. ANDRES: He's not accused of that. He would be required on his tax return. 3 I believe this witness is going to testify it would have 4 been -- 5 6 THE COURT: All right. I said that I'm only going to allow one lawyer, but go ahead, Mr. Andres. 7 MR. ANDRES: Go ahead. I think the requirement would be that 8 because of his position at DMP, he would have had to file 9 those either himself or for his company. So his -- he has an 10 obligation to file not just for himself but for his companies. 11 And so -- 12 THE COURT: Well, that's not alleged in the 13 indictment is the problem. 14 anything about his entities having filed FBARs? 15 MR. ZEHNLE: 16 THE COURT: 17 And do you intend to argue No, Your Honor. All right. That's the way it's going the stand. 18 MR. ANDRES: 19 THE COURT: Understood. I'm going to sustain the objection. You 20 are limited to these four years and the failure of him and his 21 wife, I think -- doesn't she jointly file with him? 22 MR. ASONYE: 23 THE COURT: 24 MR. ZEHNLE: 25 Yes. It's a joint return. The only point I would make in that regard, Your Honor, is that these are done on -- excuse me -Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 95 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1074 1 the FinCENs are done on an individual basis. 2 charge anything in there with respect to Mrs. Manafort. 3 I mean, there's individuals in here and there's also entities 4 that they are doing this for and they are doing it for a long 5 period of time. 6 THE COURT: Yes. And they didn't Or -- I think you've made your point 7 clear and I've accepted it. I'm not going to allow them to 8 put on evidence that they've not done it for 15 years. 9 I'm going to allow them to show that he didn't file 10 the FBAR on 2011, 2012, 2013, and 2014, because that's what's 11 alleged in the indictment. 12 that, you may do it. And if -- if you want to show How you do it is entirely up to you. 13 MR. ASONYE: 14 it from the exhibit, Your Honor. 15 periods -- 16 THE COURT: I think -- well, I obviously can't do It's becomes the longer Yes, but you could maybe ask the person 17 to look -- I'm not going to tell you how to try your case, but 18 I think you have evidence. 19 you're not required to go ahead with this witness. 20 MR. ASONYE: You just need to present it. And Well, Your Honor, may I -- I can either 21 lead her or just have one minute with her to make her clear of 22 the Court's ruling on where we can go. 23 solve the issue. 24 25 THE COURT: All right. That will probably Well, I'll let you lead -- well, did -- did he file -- does the record show that he filed Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 96 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1075 1 an FBAR for the years 2012, '13, '14, '15? 2 MR. ASONYE: 3 THE COURT: 4 that statement. MR. ZEHNLE: 6 THE COURT: 7 MR. ASONYE: THE COURT: answer. I'm fine with that, Your Honor. Let's do it. I just -- she's prepped a number of MR. ANDRES: 12 THE COURT: right? That's her problem. Don't let her I don't want to take a recess at this time. 11 13 And she can rely on this record to make times for the whole thing, so it may not -- 9 10 Yes, I just -- she's -- Don't you agree? 5 8 Yes or no? I agree. Because then we have a long witness, We do, don't we? 14 MR. ANDRES: 15 THE COURT: 16 MR. ANDRES: 17 THE COURT: 18 MR. ZEHNLE: 19 THE COURT: 20 For the record, the objection is sustained, but the 21 Government is permitted to offer evidence based on the search 22 that relates to the matters that were listed in the 23 indictment. 24 MR. ZEHNLE: 25 THE COURT: Yes. That's your witness? Yes. All right. Let's proceed. Thank you, Your Honor. For the record -- just a moment. Understood. And the sustained -- and it's not Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 97 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1076 1 relevant, all of those other things. And there is a 403 2 problem with doing it that way. 3 years that he's not alleged to have violated in the 4 indictment. They can convict him for So that is why I'm doing it. 5 (End of bench conference.) 6 THE COURT: All right. Let's proceed. Mr. Asonye, you may proceed 7 in accordance with the Court's ruling, which focuses sharply 8 on what is in the indictment. 9 MR. ASONYE: The Government calls Paula Liss. 10 THE COURT: All right. 11 Come forward and take the oath, please, ma'am. 12 Thereupon, PAULA LISS, 13 14 having been called as a witness on behalf of the Government 15 and having been first duly sworn by the Deputy Clerk, was 16 examined and testified as follows: 17 (Witness seated.) 18 THE COURT: All right. You may proceed, Mr. Asonye. DIRECT EXAMINATION 19 20 BY MR. ASONYE: 21 Q. 22 last name for the record? 23 A. My name is Paula Liss, L-i-s-s. 24 Q. And how far did you go in school? 25 A. I have a bachelor's degree in accounting. Good afternoon. Could you please state and spell your Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 98 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1077 1 Q. Do you have any certifications? 2 A. Yes. 3 anti-money laundering specialist. 4 Q. 5 little bit closer into the microphone, that will -- that will 6 help some of us who are getting up in age, myself. 7 I'm a certified fraud examiner and a certified And, Ms. Liss, if you could scoot up and just speak a So do you -- where do you work? 8 A. I work at the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, 9 commonly known as FinCEN. 10 Q. And what Government agency is FinCEN part of? 11 A. FinCEN is a Bureau of the Treasury Department. 12 Q. What does FinCEN do? 13 A. FinCEN's mission is to protect the U.S. financial system 14 from money laundering, terrorist financing, and other illicit 15 use through the collection -- 16 THE COURT: Can we get immediately to the 17 straightforward question? There's no money laundering in this 18 case alleged. 19 BY MR. ASONYE: 20 Q. Where do you -- what's your position at FinCEN? 21 A. I'm a senior special agent. 22 Q. And what are your duties? 23 A. Part of my duties are to search records maintained in 24 FinCEN's database, testify as custodian of record. 25 Q. And are you familiar with a report of foreign bank Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 99 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1078 1 account -- bank and financial accounts? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Is that also called the FBAR? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. An FBAR is required when a U.S. person has a financial 7 interest in or signature or other authority over one or more 8 foreign financial accounts when aggregated exceed $10,000 at 9 any time during a calendar year. What is that? 10 Q. And is the FBAR reporting requirement separate from the 11 requirement to disclose a foreign bank account on an 12 individual tax return? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. When during the year is the deadline to file an FBAR if 15 you are required to do so? 16 A. It's April 15th of the year following the activity. 17 Q. Now, when was the deadline to file an FBAR in tax years 18 2011 through 2014? 19 A. It was June 30 of the following year. 20 Q. Now, if a person has an obligation to file a FBAR, how is 21 it actually filed? 22 A. Electronically. 23 Q. Was there a time that it could be mailed? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. When was that? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 100 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1079 1 A. It could be mailed prior to June 30, 2013. 2 Q. And if it was mailed, who was the FBAR mailed to? 3 A. It was mailed to the IRS. 4 Q. Are you familiar with the way that FinCEN keeps records 5 of FBARs? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And generally how does FinCEN keep those records? 8 A. They are maintained electronically. 9 Q. And do you have access to those electronic records? 10 A. Yes, I do. 11 Q. Were you asked to conduct a search for FBAR filings in 12 this case? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And did you conduct a FBAR filing search for Paul 15 Manafort, the defendant? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Let me show you what's marked as Government Exhibit 117 18 in your binder. 19 20 THE COURT: bench. 21 MR. ASONYE: 22 THE COURT: 23 I thought we discussed that at the I just want her to see it. Just ask her the question as we discussed at the bench. 24 MR. ASONYE: 25 THE COURT: Let's get it done. Trying, Your Honor. Well -Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 101 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1080 1 BY MR. ASONYE: 2 Q. 3 Manafort filed an FBAR for the tax years 2011, 2012, 2013, and 4 2014? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And who conduct -- who asked you to conduct that search? 7 A. The U.S. government. 8 Q. And what were the results -- what did you find for those 9 tax years? 10 A. Did you -- did you conduct a search of whether Paul There were no FBARs in FinCEN's system of record. 11 MR. ASONYE: 12 THE COURT: 13 MR. ASONYE: 14 Thank you. Any cross-examination? Actually, Your Honor, may I have one moment, Your Honor. 15 THE COURT: 16 (A pause in the proceedings.) 17 MR. ASONYE: 18 Yes, you may. Your Honor, may we approach? There's a question about the Court's ruling. 19 THE COURT: All right. 20 (Bench Conference.) 21 THE COURT: 22 MR. ASONYE: Yes, you may. What's the question? The question is whether we're allowed 23 to ask about any FBAR filings for Kathleen Manafort during the 24 same period? 25 Your Honor. We understood that we were allowed to do so, Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 102 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1081 1 THE COURT: 2 MR. ZEHNLE: 3 clarification. 4 5 Any objection to that? Your Honor, I was just asking for I thought initially it was just the husband. THE COURT: I did, but as long -- they filed joint returns -- 6 MR. ZEHNLE: I'm okay with it, Your Honor. 7 THE COURT: 8 (End of bench conference.) 9 THE COURT: Let's return. All right. You may proceed. 10 BY MR. ASONYE: 11 Q. 12 2014, did your search yield any results for FBAR filings for 13 Kathleen Manafort, the defendant's wife? 14 A. And, Ms. Liss, for the same period, 2011, 2012, 2013, and There were no FBARs in FinCEN's system of record. 15 THE COURT: 16 THE WITNESS: 17 I didn't hear you. There were no FBARs in FinCEN's system of record. 18 THE COURT: Thank you. 19 MR. NANAVATI: Cross-examination. Yes, briefly, Your Honor. CROSS-EXAMINATION 20 21 BY MR. ZEHNLE: 22 Q. 23 and I represent Paul Manafort in this case. 24 A. Good afternoon. 25 Q. I just wanted to go over a little bit of your testimony a Good afternoon, Agent Liss. My name is Thomas Zehnle, Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 103 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1082 1 moment ago. You are familiar with the FBAR, correct? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Okay. 4 to be filed on June 30th of the following year; is that 5 correct? 6 A. That's correct. 7 Q. And that was not the same time obviously as income tax 8 returns were generally due, correct? 9 A. That's true. 10 Q. And then it's also now changed to a system whereby it's 11 done electronically; is that correct? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And in the past it could have been mailed in by paper, 14 right? 15 A. True. 16 Q. And that was sent to the Detroit center; wasn't that 17 correct? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Okay. 20 this, there are a number of elements that need to be satisfied 21 before a person, a U.S. person, is required to file an FBAR; 22 is that correct? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And so one of those elements would be that it has to be a 25 United States person, correct? And I think you testified that in the past it used Now, just in terms of the FBAR so we can clarify Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 104 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1083 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And a person can be more than just an individual, right? 3 A. That's correct. 4 Q. It can be a corporation, correct? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. A U.S. domestic corporation has to file. 7 And the U.S. person has to have a financial interest 8 in the account; is that correct? 9 A. That's one of the ways. 10 Q. And another way is that they have signature authority 11 over the account? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Okay. 14 financial account, correct? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And a financial account can mean more than just a bank 17 account, right? 18 A. That's correct. 19 Q. It can be a securities account, right? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. It could be an insurance policy with a cash or 22 undervalue, right? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. There are a number of definitions that deal with what a 25 foreign financial institution is, correct? And then there's a definition of what is a foreign Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 105 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1084 1 A. That's correct. 2 Q. Okay. 3 the amounts. 4 the $10,000 threshold, there are regulations on that as well, 5 correct? 6 A. Yes, there's guidance on that as well. 7 Q. And there are practical issues because if it's a foreign 8 financial account, it might be in currency that's different 9 than U.S. dollars, of course? And then you also said something about aggregating And how amounts are aggravated in order to meet 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Okay. 12 requirements, and an individual who owns a corporation, what 13 is the rule in terms of ownership of the corporation in order 14 to require the filing of an FBAR? 15 A. I'm not sure I understand your question. 16 Q. Okay. 17 So in terms of a corporation's filing That was probably my inartful question. How much ownership does a person have to have in a 18 corporation in order to be required to file an FBAR on behalf 19 of that corporation? 20 A. 21 then an individual may have their own filing requirement if 22 they own, directly or indirectly, more than 50 percent of the 23 company. 24 Q. That is, it's more than 50 percent, correct? 25 A. That's correct. The corporation may have its own filing requirement, and Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 106 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1085 1 Q. So if it's 50 percent ownership or less, they have no 2 filing requirement? 3 A. 4 indirectly own some of that as well. 5 Q. 6 have indirect ownership of it, if it's 50 percent or less, 7 there is no FBAR filing requirements? 8 A. 9 that's correct. Well, you have to take into consideration if they may Okay. So if you take that into account and they don't For the individual who owned something in the company, Others may have a filing requirement because 10 multiple people can have a filing requirement on one account. 11 Q. Okay. 12 MR. ZEHNLE: Nothing further, Your Honor. 13 MR. ASONYE: Your Honor, I believe he's opened the 14 door on some of the -- 15 THE COURT: 16 MR. ASONYE: I'm sorry? May we -- I can -- we can approach on 17 this, but we believe his cross opened the door on at least one 18 or two additional filings. 19 20 THE COURT: done. I don't agree. I can see that. It's But come to the bench anyway. 21 (Bench Conference.) 22 THE COURT: Mr. Zehnle, do you intend to argue that 23 any entities -- well, that Paul Manafort or his wife did not 24 file FBARs because they didn't have 50 percent of a company? 25 MR. ZEHNLE: No, Your Honor. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 107 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1086 1 MR. ASONYE: Your Honor, he just basically made the 2 argument. 3 who doesn't necessarily own 50 percent of DMP, therefore 4 implying that he has no filing responsibility. 5 deeply into personal -- 6 Because their evidence in this case is if a person THE COURT: He also went But they're not accused of failing to 7 file. We're only focused on his obligation to file. 8 could have indicted him for more, but you didn't. 9 MR. ASONYE: You Then, Your Honor, then he expanded in 10 the area and went into this -- 11 THE COURT: Yes, but he's entitled -- he's entitled 12 to -- what he did in cross-examination is to make clear that 13 if he doesn't own 50 percent of a company, he doesn't have to 14 file. 15 company have to file, but the company hasn't been indicted. 16 Only he has been indicted. If he does own more than 50 percent, then he and the 17 So he's entitled to argue that for any company that 18 he only owned 50 percent of, there was no FBAR requirement. 19 Well, that's what he wants to argue. Am I correct? 20 MR. ZEHNLE: Correct, Your Honor. 21 MR. ASONYE: And to be clear, Your Honor, in 2010 22 and in 2011, Mr. Manafort owned 100 percent of Davis Manafort 23 Partners. 24 THE COURT: 25 MR. ASONYE: Well, do you have evidence to that? It's already in evidence. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 108 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1087 1 THE COURT: 2 MR. ASONYE: 3 going to ask her now. 4 Mr. Manafort had 100 percent ownership in Davis Manafort 5 Partners, did he have an FBAR requirement and so did Davis 6 Manafort. 7 THE COURT: Well, then don't worry about it. Well, Your Honor, that's what we were That opened the door on that issue. Yes, but you don't have to -- his 8 failure to file is all you can prosecute because of your 9 indictment. 10 If You cannot prosecute that Davis Manafort Partnership didn't file. 11 Do you understand what I'm saying? 12 MR. ASONYE: 13 Honor. 14 issue now by -- 15 I understand what you're saying, Your I just vigorously disagree that he has now opened that THE COURT: Well, then you lose the argument. I'm 16 going to permit you to offer as much evidence as you would 17 like that he had an obligation to file and that he didn't 18 file. 19 through 14. 20 didn't file, no. 21 50 percent of the company, then he had an obligation to file. 22 Not for the company, but on his own. 23 24 25 That is what's in exhibits -- or in the counts 11 The fact that some partnership or some company But if you have shown that he owns more than MR. ASONYE: now. And, Your Honor, we're going to do that I'm going to ask her that on redirect then. THE COURT: All right. You can do that on redirect, Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 109 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1088 1 but it can only focus on him. Do you understand that? 2 MR. ASONYE: On Mr. Manafort, understood. 3 MR. ZEHNLE: Your Honor, if I might just be heard on 4 this. I was -- I was very careful in the way I asked the 5 questions, simply talking about the element of what's required 6 for the filing of an FBAR. 7 bring this into a direct discussion of Mr. Manafort's 8 obligations. 9 are necessary because the jury needs to know that this is a Mr. Asonye seems like he wants to I was only asking: What are the elements that 10 complicated process. This isn't just something where it's 11 like, oh, gee, I've got a foreign account and I have to file. 12 THE COURT: 13 Mr. Flood, let's have the noise in the courtroom 14 kept down, please. 15 THE CSO: 16 THE COURT: Well, the other -- Stop talking. Court is in session. Again, I want to emphasize that 17 Mr. Manafort has been indicted for failing to file FBARs for 18 four years, and that is the sharp focus. 19 that he does have an obligation to file an FBAR if he owns 20 more than 50 percent of a company that had that obligation. 21 The company would have to file it and the individual would 22 have to file it. I think that's right. 23 MR. ASONYE: 24 THE COURT: 25 Now, it's come out That's correct. And so what is it, Mr. Zehnle, that you would object to if he emphasizes that point he asks on Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 110 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1089 1 redirect. 2 50 percent, he has to file an FBAR. 3 All he would ask is if Mr. Manafort owns more than MR. ASONYE: I mean, Your Honor, the question I 4 would ask is: For 2010 and 2011, Mr. Manafort owned 100 5 percent of Davis Manafort Partners and DMP foreign bank, did 6 he have an obligation to file a FBAR? 7 THE COURT: 8 MR. ZEHNLE: 9 Any objection to that? Well, only to the extent, Your Honor -- not on that particular point, but only to the extent that it 10 assumes that all the other elements that I just discussed with 11 this witness -- 12 13 THE COURT: That's a matter of argument. permit you to ask that question and then we're done. 14 Let's proceed. 15 MR. NANAVATI: 16 (End of bench conference.) 17 THE COURT: 18 I'll Thank you, Your Honor. All right. You may proceed in accordance with the ruling at the bench. 19 MR. ASONYE: Okay. One moment, Your Honor. REDIRECT EXAMINATION 20 21 BY MR. ASONYE: 22 Q. 23 a foreign bank account with more than $10,000 in it and 24 Mr. Manafort owned 100 percent of that company, would he have 25 an FBAR filing requirement in 2010 and 2011? Ms. Liss, if in 2010 and 2011 Davis Manafort Partners had Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 111 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1090 1 A. It sounds like it, yes. 2 Q. I'm sorry? 3 A. Yes, yes. 4 MR. ASONYE: 5 THE COURT: 6 MR. ZEHNLE: 7 THE COURT: 8 THE COURT: Thank you. You may step down. You may All right. Call your next witness, please. 12 MR. ANDRES: 13 THE COURT: 15 No, Your Honor. (Witness excused.) 10 14 Any cross? be excused. 9 11 No further questions. The Government calls Richard Gates. Come forward and take the oath, please, sir. Thereupon, RICHARD GATES, 16 17 having been called as a witness on behalf of the Government 18 and having been first duly sworn by the Deputy Clerk, was 19 examined and testified as follows: 20 (Witness seated.) 21 MR. ANDRES: May I inquire, Judge? 22 THE COURT: Just a moment, please. 23 MR. ANDRES: 24 THE COURT: 25 Sure. Thank you. Proceed, Mr. Andres. DIRECT EXAMINATION Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 112 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1091 1 BY MR. ANDRES: 2 Q. 3 record. 4 A. Yes, Rick Gates, G-a-t-e-s. 5 Q. How old are you, Mr. Gates? 6 A. 46 years old. 7 Q. Where do you live? 8 A. Richmond, Virginia. 9 Q. Are you married? 10 A. I am. 11 Q. Do you have children? 12 A. I do. 13 Q. How many children? 14 A. I have four children. 15 Q. Can you describe your educational background, starting 16 with college? 17 A. 18 William and Mary in 1994, and then I received a masters in 19 arts and public policy in 2001. 20 Q. Have you served in the military? 21 A. I did. 22 Q. In what capacity? 23 A. I was in the Virginia Army National Guard. 24 Q. Were you discharged? 25 A. I was. Please state your name and spell your last name for the Yes. I received my bachelor of arts from the College of Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 113 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1092 1 Q. What was the nature of your discharge? 2 A. Honorable. 3 Q. Since graduating from college, what field have you worked 4 in? 5 A. Primarily political affairs. 6 Q. And can you tell us -- briefly describe what jobs you've 7 held? 8 A. 9 with a lobbying firm called Black, Manafort Stone and Kelly. Yes. Since graduating from university, I first served 10 I then went to work for a company called GTECH Corporation. 11 That was followed by a company called Business Strategies and 12 Insight, then went to work for Scientific Games followed by my 13 employment at Davis Manafort Partners, and then I worked for 14 one of the presidential campaigns most recently. 15 Q. Do you know Paul Manafort? 16 A. I do. 17 Q. How do you know Mr. Manafort? 18 A. I worked for Mr. Manafort from 2006 to 2016. 19 Q. When did you first meet Mr. Manafort? 20 A. I first met Mr. Manafort when I was an intern at his 21 firm, Black, Manafort, Stone and Kelly in 1995. 22 Q. 23 Mr. Manafort? 24 A. 25 hosting a Christmas party at his house. Can you explain the circumstances under which you met Yes. I was an intern at the time. Mr. Manafort was Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 114 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1093 1 Q. 2 Stone and Kelly. 3 A. 4 based in Alexandria, Virginia. 5 Q. 6 for? 7 A. 8 Black and Rick Davis. 9 Q. Was Mr. Manafort a named partner? 10 A. He was. 11 Q. Did you work with him during that time period? 12 A. No, I did not. 13 Q. And over what period of time did you work at Black, 14 Manafort, Stone and Kelly? 15 A. From 1995 to 1997. 16 Q. Let me direct your attention to 2006. 17 And you testified that you worked at Black, Manafort, What is that? That is a bipartisan political lobbying firm that was And when you worked there, who did you principally work At that time, it was one of the named partners, Charlie Did you start a new job in that year? 18 A. I did. 19 Q. What month of that year did you start the job? 20 A. October of 2006. 21 Q. And where did you go to work? 22 A. Davis Manafort Partners. 23 Q. And what is Davis Manafort Partners? 24 A. It is a -- it was a political lobbying company that also 25 did work in electoral campaigns. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 115 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1094 1 Q. Did you work with Mr. Manafort at Davis Manafort 2 Partners? 3 A. I did. 4 Q. Okay. 5 A. It did. 6 Q. Can you explain why it changed and when? 7 A. Yes. 8 believe the name changed in 2012. 9 Q. And what was it changed to? 10 A. DMP International LLC. 11 Q. And who owned, as far as you knew, DMP International? 12 A. Mr. Manafort. 13 Q. During this time period, from 2006 to 2016, who did you 14 report to? 15 A. Mr. Manafort. 16 Q. And what type of work did you do? 17 A. I did primarily work on political electoral campaigns and 18 then the firm also, at that time, had a private equity fund 19 that it was working on. 20 Q. Did you work internationally? 21 A. I did. 22 Q. Where specifically? 23 A. Primarily in Ukraine. 24 Q. Anywhere else? 25 A. In Cyprus as well. At some point, did the name of the firm change? The two named partners went their separate ways. I Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 116 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1095 1 Q. While you were working for Mr. Manafort, from 2006 to 2 2016, did your responsibility change over time? 3 A. 4 As well, we had a number of employees that left the firm over 5 time. 6 Q. 7 which you kept Mr. Manafort up to date on your activities? 8 A. 9 the week. It did. Over the years, my responsibilities increased. So with less employees, I acquired more of the work. What was the process or protocol during that time by Yes, we typically had calls, e-mail exchanges throughout But that usually culminated in kind of an agenda 10 process where either Mr. Manafort or I would prepare an 11 agenda, and then the other would add items to the agenda to go 12 through kind of on a weekly or biweekly basis. 13 Q. 14 Mr. Manafort, did you learn about his educational background? 15 A. I did. 16 Q. Was that -- did you learn about that as part of your work 17 for Mr. Manafort? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. How? 20 A. In -- as part of my job, I had to put together 21 presentations to describe the firm, and as part of that, I 22 would take and put the bios into the experience that the 23 principals had at the time. 24 Q. 25 school? During the course of the time that you worked for And what did you learn about where Mr. Manafort went to Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 117 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1096 1 A. He went to Georgetown University. 2 Q. And did he have any additional education? 3 A. And then he went to Georgetown University of law school 4 following that. 5 Q. Do you know if Mr. Manafort practiced as a lawyer? 6 A. I don't know. 7 Q. Do you know if he had any -- took any continuing legal 8 education courses? 9 A. I believe he took continuing legal education courses. 10 Q. How did you know that? 11 A. I recall, at one point, Mr. Manafort describing that he 12 had to take some classes in continuing legal education. 13 Q. 14 often would you communicate with him? 15 A. 16 sometimes more than a few times a day and then other times 17 throughout the week. 18 Q. How did you communicate with him? 19 A. By e-mail, phone, and text. 20 Q. Did you meet with him in person? 21 A. I did. 22 Q. Where would you meet with him? 23 A. Initially, we met at our Alexandria office until we no 24 longer had the office. 25 I don't know. During the time that you worked for Mr. Manafort, how Very frequently. I wouldn't say daily, but I mean, And then I would also meet with him at his house in Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 118 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1097 1 Alexandria, Virginia. 2 And then later, his condo in Alexandria, Virginia. 3 And then we also had a office temporarily in New 4 York, and also in his New York apartment. 5 Q. 6 Mr. Manafort, did you socialize with him? 7 A. 8 I was an employee of the firm. 9 believe Mr. Manafort viewed me as an employee of the firm, but In addition to having a professional relationship with No, outside of business, we didn't, you know, socialize. And I kind of, you know -- I 10 our work was mainly professional. 11 Q. 12 you involved in criminal activity? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Did you commit crimes with Mr. Manafort? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Were you indicted for some of those crimes? 17 A. I was. 18 Q. Were you arrested? 19 A. I was. 20 Q. When were you arrested? 21 A. In October of 2017. 22 Q. Did you make a decision about how you wanted to resolve 23 those charges? 24 A. I did. 25 Q. What decision did you make? During the time that you worked for Mr. Manafort, were Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 119 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1098 1 A. I made the decision to plead. 2 Q. And when did you plead guilty? 3 A. In February of 2018. 4 Q. As part of your guilty plea, did you enter into a written 5 agreement with the Government? 6 A. I did. 7 Q. Does that agreement contain all the terms of your 8 agreement with the Government? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Do you have a binder in front of you? 11 binder that starts with Tabs 2F to 326. Two binders. 12 Can I ask you to look at Government Exhibit 2F? 13 Can you tell me what that is? 14 A. This is a copy of my plea agreement. 15 MR. ANDRES: 16 THE COURT: 17 MR. ANDRES: 18 THE COURT: 19 (Bench Conference.) 20 THE COURT: 21 The clear. Your Honor, I'd like to admit that. 2F, did you say? Yes, Judge. Come quickly to the bench, please. I want to be clear. I'm not sure I am He didn't plead guilty in this case, did he? 22 MR. ANDRES: 23 THE COURT: No. This plea agreement isn't in the form 24 I'm accustomed to. That doesn't mean anything, but he pled 25 guilty to a criminal information? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 120 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1099 1 MR. ANDRES: 2 THE COURT: 3 Yes. And the criminal information was in the D.C. case? 4 MR. ANDRES: 5 THE COURT: Correct. And so am I correct that when the time 6 comes for an assessment of whether he has provided substantial 7 assistance and whether he's been truthful, that's not a 8 judgment I will make. 9 District of Columbia will make? It's a judgment that the judge in the 10 MR. ANDRES: Correct. 11 THE COURT: All right. 12 Yes? 13 MR. DOWNING: Well, I've been in multi-district 14 prosecutions before, and I think, generally, the judge in D.C. 15 will pay deference to your thoughts on the testimony. 16 THE COURT: 17 MR. DOWNING: 18 Perhaps. I mean, I've seen it before, Your Honor. 19 THE COURT: Well, it isn't something that really is 20 of immediate concern. 21 way it's happened and we'll deal with it. 22 It does bother me a bit, but that's the Ultimately, it's her judgment as to whether he has 23 provided substantial assistance. And it's her judgment, as to 24 how much that should count and how that should reduce his 25 sentence. I assume you're going to ask him whether he's been Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 121 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1100 1 sentenced yet. And I don't see that she's obligated at all to 2 communicate with me or ask me my views. 3 So I'm not sure it works that way. 4 MR. DOWNING: 5 THE COURT: 6 MR. ANDRES: 7 THE COURT: Okay. If she calls me, I'll give her my views. And, Judge -The problem with that is that it isn't 8 out in the open. She has to explain or give some speculation 9 of why she thinks there's been substantial assistance and why 10 she thinks that quantum of substantial assistance warrants the 11 required reduction that she orders that's required. 12 Your brow is furrowed. 13 MR. ASONYE: I'm sorry, Your Honor, I'm just 15 MR. ANDRES: You're pleasantly listening. 16 THE COURT: 17 But anyway, I just wanted to be clear. 14 18 listening. MR. ANDRES: 20 the record. 21 implying this. 22 place or the other. 23 25 He didn't plead here. 19 24 Yes, your brow wasn't furrowed, his was. Judge, just here is the full scale of And to the extent that -- I know you're not It's not like we chose to let him plea in one THE COURT: Oh, of course not. I'm not implying that. MR. ANDRES: The case is much more developed. It Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 122 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1101 1 went -- the only reason we came here, the defendant, as he's 2 entitled to, decided not to waive in that other court. 3 Your Honor, Mr. Gates wasn't indicted in the Eastern 4 District of Virginia and Your Honor dismissed the indictment 5 against him at the Government's request, and that's a term of 6 his plea agreement, which I will elicit. 7 8 THE COURT: All right. Any objection to any of that? 9 MR. DOWNING: No. 10 THE COURT: 11 (End of bench conference.) 12 THE COURT: 13 MR. ANDRES: 14 Let's go. All right. Mr. Andres, you may proceed. Your Honor, the Government moves to admit Government Exhibit 2F. 15 THE COURT: All right. 16 MR. DOWNING: 17 THE COURT: Without objection? Without objection. It's admitted. 18 (Government's Exhibit No. 2F 19 admitted into evidence.) 20 MR. ANDRES: 21 THE COURT: May I publish that, Judge? Yes, you may. 22 BY MR. ANDRES: 23 Q. 24 Exhibit 2F and tell me what that is? 25 A. Mr. Gates, can I ask you, again, to look at Government Yes, this is a copy of my plea agreement. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 123 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1102 1 Q. 2 page? Okay. 3 And can I ask you, first, to look at the last Did you sign that agreement? 4 A. I did. 5 Q. And did your lawyer sign it? 6 A. He did. 7 Q. And if I could ask you to look at the preceding page, is 8 it also signed by the Government? 9 A. It is. 10 Q. Do you see in the bottom corner, there's writing on each 11 page? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. What is that? 14 A. Those are my initials with the date. 15 Q. And why did you initial and date each page? 16 A. I was requested by the judge to do so in order to make 17 sure that I read every page. 18 Q. 19 of the -- Okay. Let me ask you to turn, again, to the first page 20 THE COURT: 21 MR. ANDRES: 22 THE COURT: 23 Let me ask one further question. Sure. If you'd come up quickly, please. It's very minor, but I want to be sure. 24 (Bench Conference.) 25 THE COURT: I haven't had the opportunity to read it Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 124 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1103 1 thoroughly. 2 district, there is an obligation to submit to a polygraph. 3 Is there any reference to a polygraph? 4 In virtually every plea agreement in this Because we strike that routinely when it's admitted in this Court. 5 MR. ANDRES: There is not, Judge. And just so 6 you're clear, these agreements -- this isn't my home district 7 either. 8 channel that we follow. 9 there is no polygraph. So this is the Washington, D.C. district's plea It was slightly foreign to me, but Well, actually -- 10 MR. ASONYE: Well actually -- 11 MR. ANDRES: -- a forfeiture -- 12 THE COURT: 13 MR. ASONYE: Yes. 14 MR. ANDRES: I'm not going to refer to it. 15 MR. ASONYE: We'll take a look at it and we'll 16 If there is, it needs to be stricken. redact it and let the court know. 17 THE COURT: 18 (End of bench conference.) 19 BY MR. ANDRES: 20 Q. All right. Let's proceed. Can you turn now to the first page of the plea agreement? 21 Can I direct your attention to Paragraph 1 where it 22 says, "Charges and statutory penalties"? Do you see that? 23 A. I do. 24 Q. And were you required to plead guilty to one count or two 25 counts? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 125 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1104 1 A. Two counts. 2 Q. And are those listed in Paragraph 1A and 1B? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And with respect to Paragraph 1A, what were you charged 5 with? 6 A. One count of conspiracy. 7 Q. Conspiracy against the United States? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And with respect to the second count, what were you 10 charged with? 11 A. Making a false statement to the Government. 12 Q. With respect to the Count 1 conspiracy against the United 13 States charge, as part of those -- as part of that crime, who 14 did you conspire with? 15 A. Mr. Manafort. 16 Q. And over what period of time did that conspiracy cover? 17 A. It was 2008 to 2015. 18 Q. Does that conspiracy cover a series of crimes? 19 A. It does. 20 Q. What crimes? 21 A. There was three components to it. 22 Mr. Manafort in filing his tax returns falsely. 23 24 25 I assisted Mr. Manafort, with my assistance, did not file a report indicating he had control over foreign banks. And the third was Mr. Manafort did not register as a Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 126 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1105 1 foreign agent, which I was aware. 2 Q. 3 Mr. Manafort to file false tax returns. 4 false? 5 A. 6 underreported. You testified that you pled guilty to conspiring with There are two aspects. 7 8 One is that the income was And, two, there was a schedule in the IRS -- IRS tax report that was not checked. 9 THE COURT: 10 11 How are those returns That was not what, sir? THE WITNESS: Checked, regarding the foreign bank accounts. 12 THE COURT: Next question. 13 BY MR. ANDRES: 14 Q. 15 about, whose tax returns were involved? 16 A. Mr. Manafort's. 17 Q. Can you explain to the jury what you did to conspire with 18 Mr. Manafort to file those false tax returns? 19 A. 20 make wire transfers from the offshore accounts. 21 information was not reported to the accountants. 22 was not reported as well. With respect to the tax charges that you're talking Yes. 23 Mr. Manafort over the years had requested that I That The income In addition, we did not report the foreign bank 24 accounts. And, then again, we also failed to check the box on 25 the tax returns indicating we had foreign accounts. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 127 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1106 1 Q. 2 foreign accounts housed? 3 A. 4 and one in the United Kingdom. 5 Q. 6 Mr. Manafort to file the false tax returns, did you deal with 7 his accountants? 8 A. I did. 9 Q. Did you lie to them? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Why? 12 A. We didn't report the income or the fact that the accounts 13 existed. 14 Q. 15 file -- 16 17 With respect to those foreign accounts, where were those They were primarily in Cyprus and then the Grenadines, And during the time that you were conspiring with At the time did you understand that it was illegal to MR. DOWNING: The question was: Why? 18 THE COURT: 19 MR. ANDRES: It was a question or two again, but I don't -- I did ask why. 21 accountants. 23 24 25 THE COURT: Why did he lie? Was that your question, Mr. Andres? 20 22 Objection, Your Honor, nonresponsive. I asked why Mr. Gates lied to the tax Well, the objection is overruled, but you should clarify it. MR. ANDRES: Sure. BY MR. ANDRES: Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 128 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1107 1 Q. You testified that you lied to Mr. -- lied to 2 Mr. Manafort's accountants. 3 A. 4 year that we do not disclose the foreign bank accounts. 5 Q. 6 did you understand that it was illegal to file false U.S. tax 7 returns as to income? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And did you understand that it was a crime to fail to Yes. Okay. Why did you do that? Mr. Manafort requested at different points in the At the time that you conspired with Mr. Manafort, 10 identify foreign bank accounts on a tax return? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. As part of the tax fraud conspiracy, did you provide 13 information to Mr. Manafort's accountants about alleged loans? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And can you explain what information you provided? 16 A. Yes. 17 directed whether the income would be treated as income or, in 18 some cases, whether it would be treated as loans. 19 When income came into the company, Mr. Manafort However, the entity that loaned the money was not 20 one of the companies that actually paid for the work that was 21 done. 22 Mr. Manafort. 23 Q. 24 loans? 25 A. It was actually a company offshore controlled by And were there times that you characterized income as Yes. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 129 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1108 1 Q. And why did you do that? 2 A. That was in order to reduce the taxable income on the tax 3 returns. 4 Q. Whose tax returns? 5 A. Mr. Manafort's. 6 Q. And who directed you to characterize the income as a 7 loan? 8 A. Mr. Manafort. 9 Q. Did you have an understanding of how that benefitted 10 Mr. Manafort? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. How? 13 A. By not including the income and treating it as a loan he 14 was able to defer the ability to pay the increased tax on his 15 tax returns. 16 Q. 17 loans, did you deal with Mr. Manafort's bookkeeper? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Who is that? 20 A. Heather Washkuhn. 21 Q. And were you truthful to her about the nature of the 22 income? 23 A. No. 24 Q. And in the course of dealing with these loan issues, did 25 you deal with Mr. Manafort's tax preparers? In the context of the income that was characterized as Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 130 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1109 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And who were they? 3 A. It was primarily Philip Ayliff and Cindy Laporta. 4 Q. And were you truthful to them as to -- were you truthful 5 with them with respect to the nature of the loans and the 6 income? 7 A. No. 8 Q. You testified that you conspired with Mr. Manafort to 9 fail to file foreign bank accounts reports with the Treasury 10 Department. Do you remember that? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. What did you do that made you guilty of failing to file 13 foreign bank account reports with the Treasury Department? 14 A. 15 had control over a offshore account that was in Mr. Manafort's 16 control. 17 Q. 18 with -- with Mr. Manafort's accountants about the FBAR 19 requirements? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Okay. 22 whether Mr. Manafort had false -- had foreign bank accounts? 23 A. We told them that he did not have foreign bank accounts. 24 Q. And when you say "we," who do you mean by "we"? 25 A. Meaning the company or Mr. Manafort. We did not submit the required form designating that we With respect those accounts, did you have discussions And what, if anything, did you tell them about Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 131 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1110 1 Q. And when you spoke to the accountants and told them there 2 were no foreign bank accounts, why did you tell them that? 3 A. Mr. Manafort's direction. 4 Q. With respect to those foreign bank accounts, do you know 5 how much money flowed through those accounts? 6 A. Over the years, it was several million dollars. 7 Q. And with respect to those overseas bank accounts that 8 Mr. Manafort controlled, do you know what countries they were 9 in? 10 A. Yes. They were primarily in Cyprus, the Grenadines, and 11 the United Kingdom. 12 Q. 13 fail to file FBARs, did you know it was illegal to fail to 14 file those FBARs? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. How did you know it was illegal? 17 A. We were notified by the accounting firm in regards to 18 e-mails that were sent both to myself and Mr. Manafort along 19 with the regulation outlining the definitions of foreign bank 20 accounts. 21 Q. 22 bank accounts under Mr. Manafort's control. 23 the names of those accounts and their locations? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Slowly. And at the time that you conspired with Mr. Manafort to Mr. Gates, you've testified about a variety of foreign Can you tell me Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 132 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1111 1 A. Actinet was in Cyprus. 2 Cyprus. 3 Peranova was in Cyprus. 4 Cyprus. Black Sea View Limited was in Bletilla was in Cyprus. Yiakora was in Cyprus. Olivenia was in Cyprus. Serangon, Cyprus. Marziola, Lucicle, Cyprus. 5 Let me see how many more in Cyprus. 6 And then there were two in the Grenadines, Global 7 Endeavor and Jeaunet. 8 9 And one in the United Kingdom called Pompolo. Q. Okay. How about a company named -- or an entity known as 10 Leviathan Advisors? 11 A. 12 Limited was also Cyprus. 13 Q. How about LOAV? 14 A. LOAV was Cyprus. 15 Q. Do you know if Mr. Manafort's name was listed on any of 16 these accounts? 17 A. Yes, some of them. 18 Q. And was your name listed on any of these accounts? 19 A. It was. 20 Q. Was there anyone else who was listed on the accounts? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Who is Konstantin Kilimnik? 23 A. He's a consultant that worked for Mr. Manafort. 24 Q. Okay. 25 A. There were. Yes. Leviathan Advisors was Cyprus, and Global Highway One other colleague, Mr. Konstantin Kilimnik. Were there other signatories on these accounts? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 133 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1112 1 Q. Who? 2 A. The way that the accounts were set up in Cyprus is that 3 there were two directors from a legal firm that set up the 4 entities so they were the signature panels on the accounts. 5 Q. 6 whose money was that? 7 A. Mr. Manafort's. 8 Q. And where did it come from? 9 A. It came from income related to political campaigns that With respect to the money that was in those accounts, 10 he worked on in Ukraine. 11 Q. Was that income to Mr. Manafort? 12 A. It was. 13 Q. You testified that you also pled guilty to making a false 14 statement to the FBI. 15 A. 16 had with a member of the United States Congress. 17 Q. And what false statement did you tell? 18 A. It was a meeting that was, you know, over five years ago. 19 I was not at the meeting. 20 meeting when I was presented with a memo from the government. 21 I had made a mistake and I lied on the -- on the basis of the 22 memo that the meeting had not occurred and it did. 23 Q. 24 did you make that false statement to the government? 25 A. Yes. Can you explain that charge? It was in regards to a meeting that Mr. Manafort I was given information after the When you made the false statement to the government, when During the interview sessions. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 134 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1113 1 Q. Okay. Was that before or after you pled guilty? 2 A. That was before I pled guilty. 3 Q. As a result of making those false statements to the 4 government, was -- were there consequences? 5 A. There were. 6 Q. What were the consequences? 7 A. The Government added a second charge of making a false 8 statement. 9 Q. And did you plead guilty to that charge as well? 10 A. I did. 11 Q. Can you explain to the jury what effect that second 12 charge had on the amount of time you're facing in jail? 13 A. 14 years. 15 Q. 16 guilty did you appear in front of a federal judge? 17 A. I did. 18 Q. Did the judge explain to you what penalties you're 19 facing? 20 A. She did. 21 Q. For the Count 1 conspiracy against the United States 22 charge, what are the statutory penalties? 23 A. 24 $250,000, and up to three years of supervised release. 25 Q. Yes, it increased it from potentially five years to ten Okay. You testified that you pled guilty. When you pled It's up to five years imprisonment, up to a fine of With respect to the Count 2 false statement charge, what Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 135 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1114 1 penalties are you facing? 2 A. 3 $250,000 in fines, and up to three years of supervised 4 release. 5 Q. 6 you're facing, what is that? 7 A. Up to ten years. 8 Q. Does -- Again, it was up to five years imprisonment, up to And with respect to the total amount of time, jail time 9 THE COURT: What, if anything, were you told about 10 whether the two five-year maximums could run concurrently as 11 well as consecutively? 12 THE WITNESS: I was advised by my attorney that 13 could happen but it was totally up to the judge, as I 14 understood. 15 THE COURT: Next question. 16 BY MR. ANDRES: 17 Q. 18 may be facing in jail in terms of something called the 19 sentencing guidelines? 20 A. It does. 21 Q. What does it say? 22 A. It indicates that I could serve up to -- from 57 to 71 23 months. 24 Q. 25 did you make -- did you make certain promises to the Does your plea agreement estimate the amount of time you As part of your written agreement with the Government, Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 136 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1115 1 Government? 2 A. I did. 3 Q. What did you promise to do? 4 A. I promised to tell the truth, I promised to plea, I 5 promised to provide evidence, and I promised to testify if 6 required. 7 Q. Okay. 8 A. I have. 9 Q. What evidence have you turned over to the Government? 10 A. Documents, e-mails, computers, and phones. 11 Q. Okay. 12 promises did the Government make to you? 13 A. 14 promised not to bring any additional charges. As part of the written plea agreement, what The Government promised to write a 5K1 letter. 15 16 Have you turned over evidence to the Government? It It also promised to drop the charges in regards to a second indictment. 17 And then it also agreed not to oppose my attorney 18 filing a recommendation of probation at sentencing. 19 Q. 20 second indictment. 21 A. Here in the Eastern District of Virginia. 22 Q. And what crimes were you charged with in that indictment? 23 A. Related to, primarily, tax fraud, bank fraud, and foreign 24 banks. 25 Q. You testified that the Government agreed to dismiss a Where was that indictment brought? And were you indicted alone in that case? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 137 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1116 1 A. No. 2 Q. Who else was charged? 3 A. Mr. Manafort. 4 Q. Were you charged with any crimes relating to your own 5 taxes? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Can you explain what charges were included in that 8 indictment as they related to your personal tax returns? 9 A. Yes. I was charged with underreporting income on my 10 personal account and then also not disclosing a foreign bank 11 account. 12 Q. Were you also charged with FBAR charges? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Okay. 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Were you guilty of those charges? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. With respect to the income on your tax return that you 19 failed to disclose or your false filing, can you explain to 20 the jury what you did to make you guilty? 21 A. 22 for my compensation, I transferred those from a Cyprus bank 23 account to a UK bank account then transferred them to my U.S. 24 bank account. 25 the UK account to the U.S. account. Yes. And bank fraud? In regards to some of the payments that I received And I did not report the additional income from Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 138 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1117 1 Q. During that time period, did you have a tax preparer? 2 A. I did. 3 Q. Did you use the same tax preparer as Mr. Manafort? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Okay. 6 your other income? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Okay. 9 filing tax returns as it related to overseas accounts. Were you truthful with your tax preparer about You also testified that you were charged with Did 10 you have overseas accounts? 11 A. I did. 12 Q. Okay. 13 A. They were based in the United Kingdom. 14 Q. And did you report those on your tax return? 15 A. I did not. 16 Q. With respect to the bank fraud charges, what conduct did 17 that involve? 18 A. 19 attempting to receive. 20 Q. And did you help him with those loans? 21 A. I did. 22 Q. Did you provide fraudulent documents to banks? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Did you alter documents? 25 A. Yes. Where were they? That related to a series of loans that Mr. Manafort was Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 139 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1118 1 Q. At the time you did that, did you know it was illegal to 2 send those documents to banks? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And did you benefit in any way from those loan 5 applications that Mr. Manafort made? 6 A. No, I did not. 7 Q. You testified that the Government agreed to dismiss the 8 second indictment in the Eastern District of Virginia. 9 the Government done that? Has 10 A. It has. 11 Q. Are there circumstances where those charges could be 12 brought again? 13 A. There is. 14 Q. Under what circumstances could they be re-filed? 15 A. If they -- there's a violation of the plea agreement or I 16 breach the plea agreement then those charges can be brought 17 against me. 18 Q. 19 violate your agreement? 20 A. It would. 21 Q. You testified that the Government also agreed not to 22 bring additional charges with respect to certain conduct. 23 What were you referring to? 24 A. 25 payments to expenses. If you lied during your testimony today, would that Yes. I omitted information in a deposition. I added I also increased my income on a credit Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 140 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1119 1 card and mortgage application and then also created an 2 inaccurate letter for a colleague. 3 Q. 4 aware of these additional crimes? 5 A. 6 my interview sessions. 7 Q. 8 money that you took from Mr. Manafort that wasn't authorized? 9 A. I did. 10 Q. Okay. 11 testified that you lied on a mortgage application. 12 explain to the jury what you did? 13 A. 14 submitting the application for the mortgage. 15 Q. 16 credit card applications? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. What did you do? 19 A. Increased the amount of income. 20 Q. Have you filed false expense reports to your employers? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Okay. 23 deposition. 24 25 As far as you're aware, how did the Government become I presented those to the Government at my accord during Okay. Did you also tell the Government about additional Let me start with the mortgage fraud. Yes. You Can you I increased my income level in regards to How about credit card applications? Have you filed false You testified that you were not truthful during a Can you explain when that was and what happened? THE COURT: You said -- just a moment. You said you filed false expense reports to your employer? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 141 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1120 1 THE WITNESS: 2 THE COURT: 3 THE WITNESS: 4 THE COURT: 5 THE WITNESS: 6 THE COURT: Yes. Is that Mr. Manafort? Yes. Did he know they were false. No. Next question. 7 BY MR. ANDRES: 8 Q. Was it Mr. Manafort and other employers? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Okay. 11 deposition. 12 A. 13 company had set up. 14 deposed in separate settings. 15 in preparation for that Mr. Manafort and I met on several 16 occasions and Mr. Manafort had asked me not to include certain 17 things in the deposition. 18 Q. 19 Steve Brown. 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Were you involved in a business with him? 22 A. I was. 23 Q. And were you involved in fraudulent conduct with respect 24 to that business? 25 A. Yes. You testified that you weren't truthful during Can you explain what happened and when that was? It was in regards to a private equity fund that the We -- the principals of the firm had been During the course of that and You testified about a colleague that you worked with, Do you remember that? Yes. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 142 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1121 1 Q. How so? 2 A. Mr. Brown had asked me, as a favor, to write him a letter 3 in regards to an investment offer that he was making. 4 represented that the company that we are using had income 5 level that was not accurate. 6 Q. 7 wasn't authorized. 8 A. 9 created expense reports to receive the additional money. I You testified that you took money from Mr. Manafort that Yes. Can you explain specifically what you did? In essence, I added money to expense reports and 10 Q. And where did that money come from? 11 A. Primarily from Cyprus. 12 Q. Okay. 13 Mr. Manafort that wasn't authorized? 14 A. 15 several hundred thousand. 16 Q. 17 Mr. Manafort and not -- and he not notice? 18 A. 19 that money. 20 Q. 21 Mr. Manafort authorized? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And how would you make those payments? 24 A. Same basis, through wire transfers. 25 Q. Okay. And approximately how much money did you take from I don't have an exact number, but approximately, I'd say, Okay. And how were you able to take that money from I had authority on some of the offshore accounts to move Okay. And were you paid money from those accounts that And Mr. Manafort was aware of those? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 143 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1122 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. With respect to the money that was unauthorized, how 3 would you charge those? 4 A. How do I charge? 5 Q. What -- what was the process by which you would be able 6 to take that money that wasn't authorized? 7 A. 8 typically Mr. Manafort would request, you know, me to make 9 wire transfers or he would do it himself. Yes. So the way that the wire transfers worked is Those transfer 10 requests would be sent to the law firm in Cyprus. 11 separate group that dealt with financial and accounting 12 matters. 13 requested. 14 Q. 15 them as expenses? 16 A. Uh-huh, yes. 17 Q. Okay. 18 if those charges were passed onto anybody else? 19 A. 20 the employees that were working on the Ukrainian campaigns, 21 and we submitted those expenses back to the client in Ukraine. 22 Q. 23 from Mr. Manafort in your first indictment? 24 A. No. 25 Q. Were you ever charged with taking this money from They would then process the wire transfers that were Okay. Yes. They had a And with respect to that money, you identified And as you identified them expenses, do you know Typically, the firm took the expenses from any of Were you ever charged criminally for taking this money Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 144 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1123 1 Mr. Manafort in your second indictment? 2 A. No. 3 Q. As far as you know, how does the Gov -- how did the 4 Government find out about these unauthorized monies? 5 A. I made the Government aware of them in our interviews. 6 Q. You testified that the Government promised that if your 7 cooperation was substantial, the Government would not oppose 8 your application for a sentence of probation. 9 Can you explain what that means? 10 A. 11 writing a 5K1 letter, that if I provide substantial 12 cooperation, then my attorney can file a request for probation 13 that the Government would not oppose. 14 Q. 15 16 Yes. It means that on the basis of the Government And has that recommendation -THE COURT: What's your understanding of who would make the decision? 17 THE WITNESS: 18 THE COURT: 19 THE WITNESS: 20 THE COURT: The judge makes the decision. Which judge? The judge in D.C. Next question. 21 BY MR. ANDRES: 22 Q. You testified about a 5K letter. 23 A. A 5K1 letter is something that the Government writes. 24 is a summary of everything I've done to cooperate 25 substantially, and it also includes everything I've done wrong What is a 5K letter? It Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 145 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1124 1 and then that letter is presented to the judge. 2 Q. And who writes the letter? 3 A. The Government. 4 Q. And who does the Government write the letter to? 5 A. It writes it to the judge. 6 Q. Is that letter important to you? 7 A. It is. 8 Q. Why? 9 THE COURT: So we're clear, the judge in D.C.? 10 THE WITNESS: 11 THE COURT: The judge in D.C. yes, Your Honor. Next question. 12 BY MR. ANDRES: 13 Q. 14 in D.C., you testified. Go ahead, Mr. Andres. Who does the prosecutor write the letter to? 15 The judge Is that letter important to you? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Why? 18 A. It potentially reduces the amount of time that I can be 19 potentially incarcerated. 20 Q. 21 obligated to give you a lower sentence? 22 A. She is not. 23 Q. Okay. 24 breach this agreement in some way? 25 A. If the Government writes the letter, is the judge Do you understand what will happen to you if you Yes. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 146 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1125 1 Q. What? 2 A. I lose all the benefits associated with the plea 3 agreement. 4 Q. And what happens to your guilty plea? 5 A. The guilty plea would stand. 6 Q. Would you be entitled to a sentencing reduction for your 7 cooperation? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Okay. After your arrest, Mr. Gates, were you released on 10 bail? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Are there conditions with respect to your travel? 13 A. There are. 14 Q. Have you always complied with all those conditions? 15 A. No. 16 Q. In what respect did you not comply? 17 A. In one instance I violated the curfew, it was set for 18 11:00, by about 15 minutes. 19 office of that violation. 20 Q. 21 with the Government to prepare? 22 A. I did. 23 Q. And during that time, did you review documents and other 24 materials? 25 A. Okay. And then I notified the probation Prior to your testimony here today, did you meet Yes. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 147 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1126 1 Q. Approximately how many times did you meet with the 2 Government? 3 A. Approximately 20 times. 4 Q. Okay. 5 Mr. Manafort. 6 responsibilities were? 7 A. 8 firm finalize a private equity fund that it was starting. 9 Following that, I became more involved in the political Yes. You testified that in 2006 you began working for Can you explain to the jury what your When I first started, my first role was to help the 10 activities of the firm and the international elections it was 11 working on. 12 Q. 13 the United States at the time? 14 A. It did. 15 Q. Where? 16 A. In Alexandria, Virginia. 17 Q. How about offices in the Ukraine? 18 A. It did. 19 Q. Where was that located? 20 A. In Kiev, Ukraine. 21 Q. Did you work from both offices? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. With respect to the Alexandria office, how many -- how 24 many employees worked there? 25 A. Okay. Did Mr. Man -- did Davis Manafort have offices in It ranged over time over the years, but when I first Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 148 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1127 1 joined, there were approximately eight employees at the 2 company. 3 Q. 4 employed there -- how many -- let me rephrase that. And how about the office in Kiev, how many employees were 5 Sorry. With respect to the Kiev office, how many people 6 worked there? 7 A. 8 work that was happening. 9 to 12 employees. It, again, ranged over time depending on the amount of It ranged anywhere from, you know, 5 10 Q. And who were some of the people that worked in the Kiev 11 office? 12 A. 13 Phillip Griffin, Vlad Sivkovych, and then several other local 14 employees that we had hired. 15 Q. 16 office? 17 A. 18 principal people that interacted with the political people in 19 Ukraine. 20 Q. 21 Ukrainian? 22 A. He spoke Ukrainian and Russian and English. 23 Q. Okay. 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. What was it? Some of the original people were Konstantin Kilimnik, And what were Mr. Kilimnik's responsibilities in the Kiev He was primarily Mr. Manafort's translator and one of the And you said that he was a translator. Did he speak Did Mr. Kilimnik have a nickname? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 149 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1128 1 A. KK. 2 Q. Were individuals in the Ukraine often referred to by 3 their initials? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Why? 6 A. Because sometimes their names were a little difficult to 7 pronounce or long and it was easier to abbreviate in e-mails. 8 Q. 9 and Mr. Kilimnik was in the Ukraine, were you able to Okay. During the time that you were in the United States 10 communicate with him? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Were there any problems with respect to the time 13 difference? 14 A. No. 15 Q. Any problems with respect to the phones? 16 A. No. 17 Q. How about e-mail? 18 A. No. 19 Q. How about Mr. Manafort, did he communicate with 20 Mr. Kilimnik from the United States? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. How do you know that? 23 A. Because in some instances I was with him when he was 24 communicating with Mr. Kilimnik. 25 Q. Were you able to help direct the efforts in the Ukraine Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 150 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1129 1 from the United States? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. You testified that your first assignment at Davis 4 Manafort Partners related to a private equity fund. 5 explain what you did? 6 A. 7 private equity fund, we were putting together the documents, 8 that constituted the fund and seeking investment at that time. 9 Q. Yes. Can you The firm was -- at the beginning of starting a Okay. When did you first start working on elections in 10 the Ukraine? 11 A. 12 election in 2007. 13 Q. 14 elections? 15 A. From 2007 to 2014. 16 Q. Who did you report to with respect to your election work 17 in the Ukraine? 18 A. Mr. Manafort. 19 Q. Did you ever learn how Mr. Manafort first started working 20 on elections in the Ukraine? 21 A. I did. 22 Q. Okay. 23 there? 24 A. It was, I believe, 2005. 25 Q. And what did you understand about how he first started The first election I worked on was the parliamentary And over what period of time did you work on the First of all, when did he first start working Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 151 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1130 1 working there? 2 A. 3 helping with a business project, which then later translated 4 to a political project because of the role of the businessmen. 5 Q. And who was that businessman? 6 A. His name was Rinat Akhmetov. 7 Q. Who did you understand Mr. Akhmetov to be? 8 A. He was one of the founders of the party that Mr. Manafort 9 worked for over the years and he was also a very wealthy He was introduced to a Ukrainian businessmen that he was 10 businessman in Ukraine. 11 Q. 12 by his initials? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And what were they? 15 A. RA. 16 Q. Okay. 17 approximately what his net wealth was? 18 A. 19 anywhere from -- Did you refer or people within your company refer to him THE COURT: Do you know for any -- on any basis other than what was in the newspapers. 22 THE WITNESS: 23 BY MR. ANDRES: 24 Q. 25 Do you know I mean, in the papers it fluctuated over time, but it was 20 21 You said that he was a wealthy man. No. Okay. THE COURT: All right. Let's not venture on -- Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 152 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1131 1 MR. ANDRES: 2 THE COURT: 3 I understand. You don't need it. It's not relevant. Next question. 4 MR. ANDRES: Understood. 5 BY MR. ANDRES: 6 Q. Do you know what business Mr. Akhmetov was in? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. What business? 9 A. Energy and steel. 10 Q. And did he hold a position in politics in the Ukraine? 11 A. He did. 12 Q. What position? 13 A. He was a member of parliament for a number of years. 14 Q. Was Mr. Akhmetov responsible for paying Davis Manafort -- 15 Davis Manafort and DMP International for certain work? 16 A. Yes, he was. 17 Q. What work? 18 A. Largely political work from the time that I started. 19 Q. And how did he make those payments? 20 A. Through wire transfers. 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. Generally it was from Cyprus to Cyprus. 23 Q. Okay. 24 associates? 25 A. Wire transfers from where to where? And did Mr. Akhmetov make those payments through Yes, in some cases he did. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 153 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1132 1 Q. And did they have shelf companies? 2 A. They did. 3 Q. Where were those shelf companies located? 4 A. In Cyprus. 5 Q. I'm sorry, what? 6 A. In Cyprus. 7 Q. And in terms of those contracts or those issues, who 8 negotiated the payments for Mr. Akhmetov? 9 A. Mr. Manafort. 10 Q. And do you know how Mr. Manafort received those payments? 11 A. Through a wire transfer. 12 Q. You testified that Mr. Akhmetov asked Mr. Manafort to set 13 up the Party of Regions. 14 Party of Regions is? 15 A. 16 the time, the purpose of it was to create a stable party in 17 Ukraine that brought together many of the different regions in 18 the country. 19 Q. Did Mr. Manafort agree to do this work? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. And at the start of the Party of Regions, what was the 22 initial work that Mr. Manafort did? 23 A. 24 party structuring, party platform, creating party leadership, 25 and a party congress. Yes. Can you explain to the jury what the The Party of Regions was a new political party. It was primarily building the party. At So it started out It was kind of, you know, building a Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 154 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1133 1 party 101. 2 Q. Who was the leader of the Party of Regions at the time? 3 A. Mr. Viktor Yanukovych. 4 Q. Do you know if Mr. Manafort had a relationship with 5 Mr. Yanukovych? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. What did you understand that to be? 8 A. The relationship was such that Mr. Manafort, in essence, 9 brought him back from the proverbial political dead. 10 Mr. Yanukovych ran for the presidential election in 2004 and 11 ultimately lost. 12 him back. 13 Q. When you say "bringing him back," what does that mean? 14 A. Bringing him back, back into the political spectrum. 15 Later on Mr. Yanukovych became prime minister with 16 Mr. Manafort's help and then later he won the presidency in 17 2010 in Ukraine. 18 Q. 19 successes? 20 A. 21 start to finish. 22 Q. 23 assess his political skills or his ability to work in the 24 Ukraine? 25 A. And Mr. Manafort was successful in bringing And what role did Mr. Manafort have in those election Mr. Manafort ran the elections, you know, kind of from And during the time that you worked for him, how did you He's probably one of the most, you know, politically Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 155 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1134 1 brilliant strategists I've ever worked with. 2 Q. Did Mr. Manafort ever meet with President Yanukovych? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Frequently? 5 A. I mean, I think, you know, most of the times that he was 6 in Ukraine, he would meet with him. 7 Q. 8 about? 9 A. Mr. Manafort. 10 Q. Would you attend those meetings? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Why not? 13 A. Those meetings were designed more for kind of the 14 principals to meet. 15 Q. 16 to in the company memos by a certain way? 17 A. He was. 18 Q. How? 19 A. It was either VFY for his initials or sometimes BG or Big 20 Guy. 21 Q. 22 travel there? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. How often? 25 A. It was frequently during the elections. When you say "he was in Ukraine," who are you talking I was not at that level. And with respect to President Yanukovych, was he referred During the course of your work in the Ukraine, did you And then I did Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 156 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1135 1 some work for the private equity fund there as well. 2 Q. 3 traveling? 4 A. 5 2012 to 2014. 6 Q. Okay. Was there a period of time when you weren't Yes. I traveled primarily from 2007 to 2010 and then Can I ask you to take a look at Government Exhibit 338A. 7 Do you see that? 8 A. I do. 9 Q. Can you tell me what's included in Government 10 Exhibit 338A? 11 A. It's a copy of my U.S. passport. 12 Q. Did you provide this passport to the Government as part 13 of your cooperation? 14 A. I did. 15 16 MR. ANDRES: Your Honor, the Government moves to admit Government Exhibit 338A. 17 MR. DOWNING: 18 THE COURT: Without objection. Admitted. 19 (Government's Exhibit No. 338A 20 admitted into evidence.) 21 MR. ANDRES: 22 THE COURT: 23 the matter. 24 25 May we publish it? Yes, but I -- let's get to the heart of I doubt a passport -- MR. ANDRES: Judge, we've been at the heart of the -Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 157 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1136 1 2 THE COURT: Just listen to me. For goodness sakes. Don't speak when I speak. 3 My point was, I don't see clearly why a passport 4 makes a hill of beans. 5 you to use it, but I want you to focus sharply on what matters 6 in this case so we can get this case done. 7 MR. ANDRES: And I'm going to admit it and allow Your Honor, we have gone through the 8 relevant payments with this witness. 9 passport is relevant, and that's why we're seeking to admit 10 it. 11 THE COURT: 12 MR. ANDRES: 13 THE COURT: 14 All right. MR. ANDRES: You may use it. Thank you. But I don't think there is any dispute about when he was there. 15 16 When he travels on his Just ask him. Well, this evidence has not been entered yet. 17 THE COURT: 18 MR. ANDRES: Just get on with it, please. Thank you, Judge. 19 BY MR. ANDRES: 20 Q. Can you turn to the first page? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And what's the period of time that's covered in this 23 passport? 24 A. It's from April 2009 to April 2011. 25 Q. Okay. And are there passports stamps in here that relate Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 158 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1137 1 to the Ukraine? 2 A. There are. 3 Q. Okay. 4 A. Mine stops at 0017. 5 Q. Do you see it on the screen? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. What is that? 8 A. That is entry and exit stamps into Ukraine. 9 Q. Okay. 10 Can I ask you to take a look at Government's Exhibit -- 11 12 And can I ask you to turn to page Bates No. 00020. THE COURT: Let me ask: any dispute about when he was in the Ukraine? 13 THE WITNESS: 14 THE COURT: 15 was there that are undisputed. 16 and move on. 17 18 MR. ANDRES: THE COURT: 20 MR. ANDRES: Why not have just a list of the dates he We can get it into the record Well, for one, no one has asked for I am. -- the defense has never raised that before and we're happy to do that, Judge. 22 THE COURT: 23 BY MR. ANDRES: 24 Q. 25 No, we don't, Your Honor. that before and, two, the defense -- 19 21 Mr. Downing, do you have Good. Do it. Can you take a look at Government Exhibit 338B? THE COURT: I'd like to find ways, Mr. Andres, to Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 159 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1138 1 expedite the trial of this matter, and that's one way we can 2 do it rather than go through pages of a passport. 3 MR. ANDRES: Judge, I appreciate that. And as you 4 know, each night you've asked us for copies of the exhibits, 5 which we've done. 6 trial along, and I think we've succeeded in doing that. 7 So we've done everything we can to move the THE COURT: All right. Well, you have, and I 8 appreciate what you've given me. 9 looking at something that says "passport." 10 But I have no idea just by In other words, find a way to expedite. You want to 11 show when he was in the Ukraine, fine. 12 doesn't have an objection, so you can show him some summary 13 and get it done in one question. 14 MR. ANDRES: 15 This next passport relates to travel in Cyprus, 16 Mr. Downing says he Thank you, Judge. which has not been admitted yet, so if it's okay -- 17 THE COURT: I'll admit it. 18 MR. DOWNING: No objection, is there? No objection, Your Honor. 19 (Government's Exhibit No. 338B 20 admitted into evidence.) 21 BY MR. ANDRES: 22 Q. Can you take a look at Government Exhibit 338B? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. What is that? 25 A. It's a copy of my passport. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 160 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1139 1 Q. Over what time period? 2 A. From April 2011 to April 2013. 3 Q. Okay. 4 00025? 5 A. Can I ask you to turn to page, at the bottom, Okay. 6 MR. ANDRES: 7 THE COURT: Can I publish that, Your Honor? Yes, you may. Let me be specific, 8 Mr. Andres, if you will submit to Mr. Downing what you want to 9 show as to when this witness was in the Ukraine or Cyprus, let 10 them look at it, see if they have any objection to it. 11 they don't, I'll admit that. 12 move on. 13 14 MR. ANDRES: We'll be done with it. Thank you, Judge. If We'll It's just going to take a minute. 15 THE COURT: Well, you see, it creates -- all right. 16 Go on. 17 BY MR. ANDRES: 18 Q. 19 screen there are number of -- or at least there's one passport 20 stamp from Laranka [sic]. 21 right? 22 A. Larnaka. 23 Q. What is that? 24 A. Larnaka is the capitol of Cyprus. 25 Q. Okay. With respect to Government Exhibit 338 and the -- on the Is that -- am I pronouncing that What is Larnaka? And did you travel to Cyprus -Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 161 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1140 1 A. I did. 2 Q. -- during the course of your work at DMP? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Okay. 5 A. Primarily two reasons: 6 some political election work for a candidate, and that 7 individual was also our attorney in Cyprus for our business 8 matters. 9 Q. Okay. 10 A. Kypros Chrysostomides. 11 Q. Okay. 12 A. He did. 13 Q. What was it? 14 A. Dr. K. 15 Q. Okay. 16 worked on some political campaigns for him? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Can you explain what you did? 19 A. Yes. 20 Mr. Manafort had been contacted by a business associate and 21 asked us to meet with them and assess whether or not he had a 22 prospect of not only running in the race but potentially 23 winning. 24 Q. Okay. 25 A. We did. And why did you travel to Cyprus? the first was that we worked on What was the name of that individual? Did he have a nickname? With respect to Dr. K, you testified that you In 2008, Cyprus was having a presidential election. And did you meet with Dr. K? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 162 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1141 1 Q. Okay. And you testified that Dr. K also performed 2 certain services with respect to your Cyprus accounts? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Can you explain what that was? 5 A. Yes. 6 accounts that were under Mr. Manafort's control. 7 Q. Okay. 8 A. Mr. Manafort invited me to a meeting with Dr. K in 9 Cyprus. Dr. K's law firm opened up all of the Cyprus And how did you first meet Mr. -- Dr. K? 10 Q. Okay. 11 Exhibit 356. 12 Can I ask you to take a look at Government Can you tell me what that is? 13 A. Yes. This is a memo to a businessmen Mr. Manafort knew 14 from Mr. Manafort and Dr. K. 15 Q. 16 in Cyprus? 17 A. And does this relate to the work that you did for Dr. K It does. 18 MR. ANDRES: The Government moves to admit 356. 19 MR. DOWNING: 20 THE COURT: No objection. Admitted. 21 (Government's Exhibit No. 356 22 admitted into evidence.) 23 MR. ANDRES: 24 THE COURT: 25 May I publish it, Your Honor? Yes. BY MR. ANDRES: Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 163 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1142 1 Q. Starting from the top of the memo -- can you highlight 2 the top, please -- can you just explain who it's to, from, the 3 subject matter, and the date? 4 A. 5 Mr. Manafort, and KC is also Kypros Chrysotomides. 6 Q. And what does it say for the subject? 7 A. The subject is Cyprus. 8 Q. How about the date? 9 A. The date is April 20, 2009. 10 Q. And can you read the first paragraph? 11 A. "Following several conversations in relation to the next 12 steps for KC in Cyprus, presented below is an interim report 13 that summarizes the strategy and the next steps pending your 14 agreement and approval." 15 Q. 16 Mr. Manafort in the Ukraine. 17 he was traveling, were you able to contact him? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Okay. 20 A. Either usually by phone or e-mail. 21 Q. And do you know if during the time that Mr. Manafort was 22 traveling, he was able to be in touch with his bill payer? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. How do you know that? 25 A. Because in some cases I had the e-mails forwarded to me Yes. Okay. The "to" is to Oleg Deripaska. The "from" is from You testified earlier about your work with During the periods of time that And how would you speak with him? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 164 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1143 1 by Mr. Manafort, you know, seeking action on a document or 2 other matter that he had received from the accountant or 3 bookkeeper. 4 Q. 5 prevented him from speaking to his tax preparers? 6 A. Not to my knowledge. 7 Q. How did you know whether or not he was in contact with 8 his tax preparers? 9 A. Was there anything about Mr. Manafort's travel that Again, I would get e-mails either forwarded by 10 Mr. Manafort or, in some cases, the accountants would reach 11 out to me and say they had talked to Paul and were trying to 12 follow up on certain actions. 13 Q. 14 Ukraine. 15 A. The parliamentary election in 2007. 16 Q. And can you describe how -- what work you did on that 17 election? 18 A. 19 by coordinating a number of the outside consultants that the 20 company used for that election, then also helping writing the 21 messaging and talking points for the Party of Regions. 22 Q. 23 elections work in the Ukraine? 24 A. 25 United States. You testified that you worked on elections in the What was the first election you worked on? Yes. Okay. Yes. That was my first election. I had primarily helped And can you describe how the parliamentary Politics in Ukraine is a little different than the They do not have elections by direct members. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 165 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1144 1 It's done by proportional representation -- 2 THE COURT: 3 MR. DOWNING: 4 Do you have an objection? I do. Objection, Your Honor, irrelevant. 5 MR. ANDRES: I'm not sure how this is irrelevant. 6 This is what Mr. Manafort is paid for, for his work in the 7 Ukraine. 8 9 THE COURT: Well, you don't deny that he was paid. You just deny that -- or the Government takes the position 10 that he didn't report everything he was paid for. 11 denies that he did work over there. 12 MR. ANDRES: Nobody Judge, there has not been a single 13 admission, not a single admission by the defense as to any 14 facts in this case. 15 mean that they made an admission. 16 Court's not going to instruct the jury they have to find it. 17 It doesn't mean we don't have the burden to do so. 18 THE COURT: The fact that they opened on it doesn't It doesn't mean that the I don't see anything in any instruction, 19 that either side has submitted, that calls for an instruction 20 on this. 21 Let me -- go ahead and move on, Mr. Andres, and 22 we'll talk about it after we let the jury go home. 23 But we need to focus sharply. What's in the 24 indictment, what the allegations are, and what each witness 25 can contribute to that. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 166 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1145 1 2 I certainly hope you don't mean to offer a history of Ukrainian politics or anything of that sort, do you? 3 (Audience laughter.) 4 MR. ANDRES: 5 THE COURT: 6 MR. ANDRES: 7 THE COURT: 8 Next question. 9 MR. ANDRES: 10 THE COURT: No. Judge, to be clear, what -- Do you? Answer my question. No. All right. Well, keep that in mind. The Government intends to -Next question, sir. 11 BY MR. ANDRES: 12 Q. 13 on in the Ukraine, how many elections did you work on? 14 A. 15 eight to ten. 16 Q. And what type of work did you do? 17 A. Primarily, again, worked in pulling a series of 18 consultants together that we used externally. 19 with our local staff to pull together messaging, talking 20 points, election integrity efforts, and media and political 21 matters and polling. 22 Q. 23 election of President Yanukovych? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Okay. With respect to the number of elections that you worked I think over the period of time from 2007 to 2014, it was Also, working You testified that you -- did you work on the 2010 And who won that election? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 167 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1146 1 A. Mr. Yanukovych. 2 Q. Can I show you what's been marked as Government 3 Exhibit 346? 4 Can you tell me what that is? 5 A. Yes. This is a memo from Mr. Manafort to our campaign 6 team and it's in regards to kind of a status of the campaign 7 three weeks out from the election date. 8 Q. And what campaign does that refer to? 9 A. This is in reference to -- let me check real quick -- the 10 presidential campaign in 2010. 11 Q. Okay. 12 A. I did. 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. Sorry, I apologize. 15 election in 2012. 16 Q. And did DMP and Mr. Manafort work on that campaign? 17 A. It did, yes. 18 19 And did you work on that campaign? And after that, can -- did you -- MR. ANDRES: The date, this is the parliamentary Your Honor, the Government moves to admit Government Exhibit 346. 20 MR. DOWNING: 21 THE COURT: No objection. It's admitted. But let me give you an 22 opportunity, Mr. Andres, to tell me a bit more about why you 23 think it's relevant. Come to the bench. 24 (Bench Conference.) 25 THE COURT: All right. Why is it relevant? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 168 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1147 1 THE CSO: Quiet. 2 MR. ANDRES: 3 THE COURT: Is there an objection, Judge? I want to know why it is relevant. Yes, 4 I have an objection to the time this is taking. 5 has testified that he committed crimes, pointed them out. 6 have evidence that you've -- but you're asking him about what 7 he did in an election and it just doesn't seem relevant. 8 so I'm giving you an opportunity to tell me why. 9 MR. ANDRES: This witness You And I'm asking these questions because 10 these are the facts that are alleged in the indictment and 11 this is the money that he'll be paid for. 12 testify about shortly about who specifically paid for those 13 elections, for what accounts they used, how they did it. 14 There are a number of individuals -- 15 THE COURT: 16 MR. ANDRES: 17 THE COURT: 18 MR. ANDRES: 19 20 What he's going to Ask him that directly. Judge, you -You can ask the question directly. And there's also no reason why I can't ask the questions. THE COURT: 21 interminable time. 22 to Mr. Asonye.) There is, because we don't have Don't look so puzzled (directing comment 23 You've tried cases in this Court before. 24 MR. ANDRES: 25 Judge, I disagree that speed is more important than the substance. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 169 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1148 1 2 THE COURT: than substance, but a delay is unnecessary. 3 4 MR. ANDRES: The suggestion that the Government is somehow delaying the record does not reflect that. 5 6 I agree that speed isn't more important THE COURT: You're going into areas that don't seem to be relevant. 7 MR. ANDRES: I understand. But Your Honor -- as 8 Your Honor now knows, I haven't previewed my entire case for 9 you. So I don't know how exactly I'm supposed to explain to 10 the Court before I ever admit any of the evidence what's 11 coming next. 12 coming next -- And so Your Honor has questions about what's 13 THE COURT: 14 MR. ANDRES: 15 THE COURT: 16 17 Look at me when you're talking to me. I'm sorry, Judge, I was. No, you weren't. You were looking at down. MR. ANDRES: Because I don't want to get in trouble 18 for some facial expression. 19 again by the Court for having some facial expression when I'm 20 not doing anything wrong, but trying my case. 21 I don't want to get yelled at So every instance the Court interrupts every single 22 one of the Government's directs, every single one. 23 defense direct, they get to bring in documents that aren't 24 even in the relevant time frame. 25 THE COURT: On the Well, why didn't you object? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 170 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1149 1 MR. ANDRES: 2 THE COURT: 3 One lawyer at a time. We did. Then I ruled on it. You must be quiet. You knew that. 4 (Directing comment to Mr. Asonye.) 5 MR. ANDRES: 6 THE COURT: 7 are. I'm sorry, Judge. Well, I understand how frustrated you In fact, there's tears in your eyes right now. 8 MR. ANDRES: 9 THE COURT: 10 There are not tears in my eyes, Judge. Well, they're watery. Look, I want you to focus sharply on what you need 11 to prove -- to prove the crime. 12 lot of these questions have to do with it. 13 And I don't understand what a Now, let me be clear about the trips to the Ukraine. 14 I'm going to permit you to show those, but I'd like you to 15 expedite things and I don't fault you for not doing this in 16 advance. 17 him a list of when he was in the Ukraine, and ask them to do 18 that, then we don't have to spend time going page by page 19 through a passport. 20 21 22 You could have, but you're not required to. Now, what is it you want to elicit from him about the work on the campaigns? MR. ANDRES: The memos list the individuals who are 23 paying for the campaigns. 24 Their names have not been entered into evidence. 25 Give They are being updated repeatedly. The last time we tried to go through the memos, with Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 171 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1150 1 the search warrant witness, the Court prevented us from doing 2 that. 3 or was copied on. These are memos that Mr. Gates wrote for Mr. Manafort 4 THE COURT: 5 MR. ANDRES: And what do they show? They show who the -- who's being 6 updated about the campaign. And the people with the initials, 7 the businessmen here, the oligarchs. 8 that obviously, but businessmen who are paying them for 9 the campaign. We're not calling them This is the money trail Your Honor has been 10 asking for for some time and here we are, and yet, we're still 11 having problems submitting our case. 12 13 THE COURT: How were they paid? They were paid by wire transfers through the Cyprus accounts. 14 MR. ANDRES: Through shell companies. So we have to 15 elicit the name of people who control the accounts. 16 pay masters were, the businessmen, what accounts they held. 17 There's documentary evidence which support that. 18 knows very well that Mr. Gates' credibility will be tested 19 severely on cross-examination. 20 documents that are going to help how it is he knows what he 21 does. 22 MR. DOWNING: Who the Your Honor And we're simply submitting Your Honor, I'm -- I get your point, 23 too. I don't mind working with the Government. If they give 24 us some kind of summary of the contracts for the consulting 25 services and the payments that go into the accounts, we'd be Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 172 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1151 1 more than happy to work on this. 2 And by the way, to be clear, this was something I 3 talked to Mr. Andres about before this trial, about getting 4 some of this stuff summarized, getting an agreement on it, and 5 moving through this case. 6 So I definitely did raise it with him and I did not 7 appreciate him saying that earlier. 8 happened. 9 MR. ANDRES: Okay. That is not what So maybe Mr. Downing can send up 10 an e-mail that it doesn't exist. And by the way, Judge, 11 you'll remember not long ago, I tried to show a witness a 12 summary chart and Your Honor wouldn't let it in. 13 THE COURT: 14 MR. ANDRES: 15 THE COURT: 16 Now, you're going to get a chance to introduce those 17 That's a different matter. It's not a different matter. I say it's different. later, but the right way. 18 MR. ASONYE: 19 THE COURT: 20 MR. DOWNING: 21 22 Can I say something on this point? No, you may not. But I will -- I'll work with Mr. Andres this evening, do my work. THE COURT: Look -- yes, and I want you-all to work 23 to see if you can expedite getting the evidence in this case. 24 You may continue with your examination now. 25 MR. ANDRES: Okay. Thank you, Judge. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 173 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1152 1 (End of bench conference.) 2 THE COURT: 3 MR. ANDRES: 4 THE COURT: 5 may proceed as you were doing. 6 MR. ANDRES: All right. Mr. Andres, you may proceed. Thank you, Your Honor. And I didn't exclude anything, so you Thank you, Judge. 7 BY MR. ANDRES: 8 Q. Can you look at Government Exhibit 342? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Can you tell me what that is? 11 A. This is an e-mail chain involving Mr. Kilimnik and 12 Mr. Manafort. 13 Q. 14 subject? 15 A. The subject is ST documents. 16 Q. And the reference to ST, is that an individual? 17 A. It is. 18 Q. Who is ST? 19 A. His name is Serhiy Tihipko. 20 Q. Okay. 21 A. Serhiy Tihipko is -- had his own political party and also 22 supported the Party of Regions that we were working for. 23 at the point of this e-mail, he was helping as a surrogate on 24 economic matters. 25 Q. Okay. And the attached -- the subject, can you read the And was he -- who is Serhiy Tihipko? And In the course of your work in the Ukraine, did Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 174 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1153 1 Mr. Tihipko make payments to Davis Manafort and DMP 2 International? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. For what? 5 A. For a lobbying project involving the EU in the U.S. 6 Q. Okay. 7 8 MR. ANDRES: Your Honor, the Government moves to admit Government Exhibit 342. 9 MR. DOWNING: 10 THE COURT: No objection, Your Honor. Admitted. 11 (Government's Exhibit No. 342 12 admitted into evidence.) 13 BY MR. ANDRES: 14 Q. 15 Tihipko, how were those payments made? 16 A. By wire transfer. 17 Q. Okay. 18 A. From his company in Cyprus to Mr. Manafort's company in 19 Cyprus. 20 Q. 21 companies in Cyprus? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Do you know what the names of those were? 24 A. Yes. 25 Holdings, I believe, Dresler Holdings. With respect to the payments that ST made, or Serhiy Wire transfer from where to where? And did Mr. Tihipko, did he control certain shell The one that was used by Mr. Tihipko was Dresler Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 175 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1154 1 Q. Okay. 2 Cypriote holdings? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. How do you know that? 5 A. Because I was the one that helped organized the paperwork 6 to -- and initiate the wire transfer from their side. 7 Q. Can you take a look at Government Exhibit 344? 8 9 And did they make payments to Mr. Manafort's Can you tell me what that is? A. Yes. This is a memo drafted by Mr. Manafort in regards 10 to an election integrity program that we were working on for 11 the upcoming parliamentary elections in 2012. 12 basically outline the strategy for how the Party of Regions 13 members would work with embassies, the media, and MGO's prior 14 to the campaign. 15 16 MR. ANDRES: And this was to The Government moves to admit Government Exhibit 344. 17 MR. DOWNING: 18 THE COURT: No objection. Admitted. 19 (Government's Exhibit No. 344 20 admitted into evidence.) 21 MR. ANDRES: 22 THE COURT: 23 BY MR. ANDRES: 24 Q. 25 top e-mail. Okay. May I publish it? Yes. You testified, Mr. Gates, about the e-mail, the And I'd just ask you to look at the top e-mail Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 176 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1155 1 and tell me who the e-mail is to? 2 A. The top e-mail is to Mr. Manafort. 3 Q. And who's it from? 4 A. Mr. Kilimnik. 5 Q. And are you CC'd? 6 A. I am. 7 Q. What's the date? 8 A. Date is July 12, 2012. 9 Q. Okay. 10 A. The subject is EI, which means Election Integrity 11 Outreach International Plan. 12 Q. 13 sentence of the e-mail? 14 can you just read that first sentence? 15 A. 16 was given to SL, Levenets, MFA, AK." 17 Q. Okay. 18 A. Serhiy Lyovochkin. 19 Q. Okay. 20 the Ukraine, did Mr. Lyovochkin pay for certain services? 21 A. He did. 22 Q. Davis Manafort? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. What did he pay for? 25 A. He paid for political work and some policy work on behalf Okay. Yeah. Can you tell me what the subject of the e-mail is? And in the e-mail, can you just read the first Who's it -- after it says, "Paul," "Attached is the final version of the memo. It The reference to SL, who is that? During the course of the time that you worked in Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 177 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1156 1 of the Party of Regions. 2 Q. 3 payments in the millions of dollars? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Okay. 6 work contracts with them? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. How did Mr. Lyovochkin pay for the work to DMP? 9 A. Mr. Lyovochkin wired money from his Cyprus account to And without giving us a particular number, were those And did DMP International enter into series of 10 Mr. Manafort's account in Cyprus. 11 Q. 12 company? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. What were the names? 15 A. The two that Mr. Lyovochkin primarily used were Taunton 16 Limited and Telmar Investments. 17 Q. 18 those payments, where did he receive those payments? 19 A. He received them in Cyprus. 20 Q. Okay. 21 move it to the United States immediately? 22 A. 23 as well. 24 Q. 25 period of time? And was his Cyprus account in the name of a shell And with respect to the way that Mr. Manafort received And did he -- when the money got to Cyprus, did he In some cases, he moved some, but he left some in Cyprus Did Mr. Manafort maintain those Cyprus accounts over a Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 178 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1157 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And was there money in those accounts? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Was it millions of dollars? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Can I ask you to turn to the memorandum attached to 7 Government Exhibit 344? 8 9 Can you tell me what that is? A. Yes. This is the memo that Mr. Manafort drafted to 10 several people in the party of leadership, outlining what 11 needed to be done in terms of the election integrity efforts. 12 Q. Okay. 13 A. Yes. Can you tell me who's on the "to" line? SL is Mr. Serhiy Lyovochkin. 14 AK is Andriy Klyuyev. 15 ST is Serhiy Tihipko. 16 BVK is Borys Kolesnikov. 17 And KG is Kostyantyn Gryshchenko. 18 Q. And who is KG? 19 A. KG is Kostyantyn Gryshchenko. 20 Q. And what was his position? 21 A. At that time, I believe he was the Minister of Foreign 22 Affairs. 23 Q. 24 AK, ST, and BVK, were they businessmen in the Ukraine? 25 A. Okay. With respect to the four other individuals, SL, They were. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 179 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1158 1 Q. Were they all involved in making payments to 2 Mr. Manafort? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Okay. 5 companies? 6 A. 7 any payments. 8 Q. Correct. So all the people before KG? 9 A. Correct. That's -- yes. 10 Q. Okay. 11 A. AK is Andriy Klyuyev. 12 minister in the government. 13 Q. Is he also a businessmen in the Ukraine? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And did he make payments to Mr. Manafort? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Okay. 18 A. I think the primary one he used was Novirex Limited. 19 Q. Okay. I should say the only one, Mr. Gryshchenko did not make 20 21 Did they make those payments through shell You've testified previously about SL. He was the first deputy prime Not that many, though. What entities did he use? And -THE COURT: What -- do you know what these payments were for? 22 THE WITNESS: 23 THE COURT: 24 THE WITNESS: 25 Who is AK? Yes. What? Primarily political campaigns with Mr. Klyuyev specifically, since he didn't make that many, and Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 180 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1159 1 this one was for polling work that was done. 2 THE COURT: 3 THE WITNESS: 4 THE COURT: 5 In other words, services? Services done in support of these people's political campaigns? 6 THE WITNESS: 7 THE COURT: 8 THE WITNESS: 9 THE COURT: 10 That's correct. So the people they supported. Yes. And you said payments were made by these people or their entities, because you said -- 11 12 Services, yes. THE WITNESS: Their Cyprus entities, yes, Your Honor. 13 THE COURT: I beg your pardon? 14 THE WITNESS: 15 THE COURT: 16 THE WITNESS: 17 THE COURT: 18 THE WITNESS: 19 THE COURT: Their Cyprus entities. Yes, to Mr. Manafort. Correct. Or his entity? His Cyprus entity, yes. Next question. 20 BY MR. ANDRES: 21 Q. The person with -- that's identified as BVK? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Can you tell me who that is? 24 A. Yes. 25 leadership. That's Borys Kolesnikov. He was in the party He's very closely associated with Rinat Akhmetov. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 181 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1160 1 And then Mr. Kolesnikov is also the minister of transportation 2 in the government. 3 Q. 4 businessmen? 5 A. Yes, I think so. 6 Q. Did he make payments to Mr. Manafort? 7 A. He did. 8 Q. And what were those payments for? 9 A. Political work. 10 Q. And did he make those payments through a series of shell 11 companies? 12 A. He did. 13 Q. Do you know what the names of those shell companies are? 14 A. Some that I recall are Mistaro, Inlord Sales -- let's 15 see, Firemax. 16 Q. 17 businessmen -- Okay. Okay. 18 And with respect BVK, was he a wealthy I think there are some others as well. Do you have an understanding why these THE COURT: Go ahead. Go ahead. 19 BY MR. ANDRES: 20 Q. 21 making payments for political campaigns in the Ukraine? 22 A. 23 is in the U.S. 24 Committee or a Democratic National Committee, so there are no 25 political contributions in Ukraine. Do you have an understanding why these businessmen were Yes. In Ukraine, there's no party structure like there So you don't really have a Republican National And what typically Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 182 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1161 1 happens is those people supporting a particular party come 2 together, a budget is created, and then the budget is divided 3 among those people who can contribute to those campaigns. 4 THE COURT: 5 THE WITNESS: 6 THE COURT: 7 So it is a political contribution. A very high one, yes, Your Honor. You've said they did it shelf -- through shelf companies. 8 THE WITNESS: 9 THE COURT: 10 Yes. What did you mean by that? THE WITNESS: Shelf companies are basically 11 companies in Cyprus that have already been set up and remain 12 on the corporate registry in Cyprus and that you're allowed to 13 use. 14 actually create a name for. And it's cheaper than to set up a company that you 15 THE COURT: Well, what does the term "shell" mean? 16 THE WITNESS: I think it's shelf company. 17 shell? Yeah, it should be shelf, not shell. 18 meaning they are already on the shelf. 19 THE COURT: 20 THE WITNESS: 21 THE COURT: 22 THE WITNESS: 23 THE COURT: 24 Mr. Andres. 25 BY MR. ANDRES: You said Shelf, like Oh, I see. Right. Are you saying s-h-e-l-f? Correct. I see. All right. Go ahead, Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 183 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1162 1 Q. You testified about the manner in which the -- well, let 2 me ask you this: 3 benefit in some way from supporting these elections? 4 A. 5 then yes. 6 or ownership of certain companies or percentages of companies. 7 Q. 8 were made from the businessmen in the Ukraine to Mr. Manafort. 9 How did you first learn about that process? Did the businessmen in the Ukraine, did they If the party was successful and that party came to power, Often they benefitted financially through contracts You testified about this manner in which these payments 10 A. Mr. Manafort told me, and then later Mr. Kilimnik also 11 confirmed that information. 12 Q. 13 open accounts in Cyprus? 14 A. 15 people that were working on the political parties had directed 16 him to set up Cyprus accounts because the payments would be 17 coming from Cyprus. 18 businessmen to make those payments. Anything to you about whether or not he was required to Yes. 19 20 So it was easier for the Ukrainian THE COURT: When you come to a good stopping point, I take it you have more that we can't finish today. 21 22 He indicated that the Ukrainian businessmen and the MR. ANDRES: I can stop now if you'd like, Your Honor. 23 THE COURT: Let's do that. 24 Mr. Gates, you may step down. 25 We will reconvene tomorrow at 9:30. And in the Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 184 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1163 1 interim, you may not discuss your testimony with anyone at 2 all, whether lawyer or other. 3 THE WITNESS: 4 (Witness excused.) 5 THE COURT: 6 the right. 7 security. 8 9 10 Ladies and gentlemen, pass your books to Mr. Flood will collect them, maintain their matter with your family or anyone or undertaking any investigation on your own. And avoid, as I find it easy to do, the news or anything, any discussions. 13 14 Thank you. Remember, as always, to refrain from discussing the 11 12 Okay. Let me ask Mr. Andres: How much more do you anticipate with this witness? 15 MR. ANDRES: 16 THE COURT: Approximately three hours. All right. Gives you a forecast. We'll 17 try, of course, to focus it sharply and ensure that -- that 18 time is spent well. 19 You may follow the court security officer out. 20 see you tomorrow morning at 9:30. 21 I hope. I'll You filled out your menus, 22 Good. See you tomorrow morning. 23 (Jury dismissed.) 24 THE COURT: 25 Mr. Andres, let me give you an opportunity to All right. You may be seated. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 185 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1164 1 educate me. 2 3 I understand that the -- Mr. Andres? MR. ANDRES: I'm listening, Judge. I'm sorry. I was listening. 4 THE COURT: It's customary, as Mr. Asonye will tell 5 you, when I address you to come to the podium and stand, but 6 you can be forgiven. 7 MR. ANDRES: No, no. 8 THE COURT: 9 Anyway, Mr. Andres, I want to give you an You can be forgiven that. 10 opportunity to explain to me why some of this is relevant. 11 understand that the Government has alleged in the indictment 12 that he received payments from these people in -- and from 13 these organizations and companies that he report on his 14 return. 15 to do -- for example, you asked a question: 16 have something to gain from giving -- giving this money? And so I'm not sure that I see clearly what this has Do these people 17 I don't see any earthly relevance to that. 18 I mean, I don't ask Mr. Koch or Mr. Soros whether 19 they have anything to gain from contributions they make. 20 These are people that are backing political parties and 21 political factions. 22 23 24 25 I So maybe I'm not seeing something and maybe you can explain that to me. MR. ANDRES: These people are not making political contributions in the way that you suggest. They're not Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 186 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1165 1 anything like any Americans. 2 singling out these individuals. 3 their political connections or who they give money to. 4 I don't know why you keep I don't know anything about These people are oligarchs. They are oligarchs. 5 And that means they control a segment of the economy based on 6 the Government's allowing them to do that. 7 who they support, then provides them with political cover so 8 that they can have a monopoly over certain areas of the 9 economy. The Government, 10 Now, Your Honor, and I've done my best -- 11 THE COURT: 12 MR. ANDRES: 13 THE COURT: I'm glad you've explained that to me -Yes. -- because that makes it even clearer to 14 me that it doesn't have anything to do with the allegations in 15 this case. 16 I think -- you know, I'm not here to debate with you 17 whether these are good people or bad people. 18 on about the use of the term "oligarch." 19 throws dirt on these people. 20 know and I don't care. 21 I raised early I didn't -- it They may deserve it. I don't What matters is whether he received money and he 22 didn't report it on his income tax. 23 these are good people, bad people, oligarchs, crooks, Mafia, 24 or whatever. 25 allegations that he received money that he didn't report on It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter whether What matters is that your Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 187 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1166 1 his income tax, that's what matters. 2 3 MR. ANDRES: Respectfully, Judge, that is not what the law is. 4 The law is that what he earned as income matters, 5 not if these people gave it as a gift, I want to make sure 6 that's not clear, not if these people gave it for some other 7 reason and that Mr. Manafort earned it, that he earned 8 income -- 9 THE COURT: All right. I see that. I see that. 10 But you don't need to throw mud at these people or the cause 11 they supported or the reasons. 12 witnesses said Mr. Manafort was brilliant and so forth and 13 that it was an important aspect in -- I'm here, Mr. Andres. 14 MR. ANDRES: 15 THE COURT: 16 if to say, you know, that's BS. 17 more from you. 18 MR. ANDRES: I'm sorry, Judge, I'm listening. I know. reactions in some way. 20 being disrespectful in any way. 21 THE COURT: 22 MR. ANDRES: 23 THE COURT: 25 But when you look down, it's as I don't want to listen any Judge, you continue to interpret our 19 24 In fact, some early -- early We don't do that to you and we're not All right. Well, then look at me. Fine. Don't look down. Don't roll your eyes. Don't -MR. ANDRES: I'm not rolling -- I don't understand Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 188 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1167 1 how -- 2 3 THE COURT: You may not have rolled your eyes, but you're not the only person sitting on that side. 4 MR. ANDRES: I would find it interesting to see that 5 I was both looking down and you notice that I was rolling my 6 eyes, but I -- 7 THE COURT: I told you, Mr. Andres, I wasn't saying 8 you rolled your eyes. 9 here, and I stand by that comment. 10 I did make a comment about your eyes up But, anyway, explain to me why it makes a difference 11 whether the payments came from people you think are immoral 12 and oligarchs or whatever other than that he earned the money. 13 I don't think anyone denies that he did work over there, that 14 he was successful, and they paid him millions of dollars. 15 And I think you have shown that it was paid through 16 these companies in Cyprus. 17 you have evidence, that he didn't report that money on his 18 income tax. 19 And you need to show, as I think But I don't see any need to cast aspersions on 20 whether he was doing the Lord's work or some evil work over 21 there, do you? 22 MR. ANDRES: I wasn't suggesting that in any way. 23 didn't say a word about oligarchs. 24 anything. 25 I I didn't say a word about But, Your Honor -- Your Honor -THE COURT: I stopped that early on. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 189 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1168 1 MR. ANDRES: -- Your Honor then injected that these 2 were political contributions, and they're not really political 3 contributions. 4 THE COURT: 5 MR. ANDRES: Why not? Only with respect to Your Honor 6 injecting a question to the witness about -- because they're 7 not just political contributions, they are these self-serving 8 payments with respect to what the oligarchs are giving to 9 these politicians. 10 11 THE COURT: States when they give -- 12 13 MR. ANDRES: I'm not here to talk about what political people do in a campaign. 14 15 You don't think people in the United THE COURT: I'm here to prove a fact. It is political contribution, but it doesn't matter. 16 MR. ANDRES: 17 THE COURT: Fine. What matters is that he received 18 payments and it was for work and, therefore, it's income and 19 he didn't report it. 20 MR. ANDRES: That's what matters. Right. And at every instance when we 21 try to describe the work, that he worked on elections, what he 22 did, Your Honor stops us and tell us to move on. 23 at -- 24 25 THE COURT: Judge, look Oh, the record will reflect I have rarely stopped you in this case. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 190 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1169 1 MR. ANDRES: I will stand by the record as well. 2 THE COURT: All right. 3 All right. I want to see this matter tried Then you will lose. 4 expeditiously. So I am requiring you and Mr. -- well, Downing 5 and anyone else -- for example, on these passports, I want you 6 to get together. 7 when this witness was in the Ukraine, and it ought to be a 8 simple piece of paper that you can agree to, a stipulation. There's no dispute about when this fellow -- 9 Going through the thing page by page is unnecessary. 10 And there are other things that I think -- if you want to show 11 that certain payments were made, and certainly you can do so. 12 What I don't think is necessary -- I haven't been 13 through these hundred-plus exhibits that you plan to go 14 through. 15 chains that you admitted that I don't think have much to do 16 with this. 17 18 19 There were a couple of these e-mails trails that -- All I'm asking is that you look at what you intend to present and see if you can focus it very sharply. MR. ANDRES: Your Honor, it would be helpful for me 20 to do that if you could identify an e-mail chain that you've 21 admitted as relevant evidence, which is not relevant or how 22 it's not relevant -- 23 THE COURT: 24 25 Well, I've admitted a lot of e-mail. I'm not going to go through those. MR. ANDRES: Just asking for one example of a Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 191 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1170 1 2 3 4 document that you've admitted -THE COURT: I don't have to give you an example. want you to shorten it. MR. ANDRES: Your Honor, I don't understand how 5 I'm -- this is a trial. 6 going to try to admit evidence. 7 supposed to combine with Mr. Downing so that he can approve 8 the Government's evidence before it's admitted. 9 10 11 12 We're I don't understand how I'm He has his own work to do. THE COURT: He says he offered to do it. You said he didn't; is that right, Mr. Downing? MR. ANDRES: 14 THE COURT: 16 We're going to call witnesses. I'm not casting any aspersions on Mr. Downing. 13 15 I To do what? To do what? What was it that you said you offered to do and they said you didn't? MR. DOWNING: Your Honor, earlier in the case, 17 before all these witnesses were called to the vendors to talk 18 about the personal expenses, we said to the extent you have a 19 chart and you break it down by vendor, give us the detail. 20 We'll look at it. 21 can put it in evidence. 22 issues that are coming up now. 23 If we don't have any objection to it, you So we feel no differently about the He's got a chart that summarizes the payments that 24 came in, who made the payments, and the purpose of it. 25 will look at it. We And if we have no objections -Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 192 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1171 1 2 THE COURT: Well, didn't you object to a chart that Mr. Asonye offered? 3 MR. DOWNING: I think it was an objection to the 4 timing of a summary coming in. 5 THE COURT: 6 gone on -- is this the sixth day, I believe? 7 MR. ANDRES: 8 THE COURT: 9 MR. ANDRES: 10 11 Well, in any event, this case has now THE COURT: right. I think -- I think -I beg your pardon. It might be the fifth. All right. It's -- I think you're It is the fifth. 12 But we need to move the matter along. 13 And any way that you can think to do it, Mr. Andres, 14 would be appreciated by the Court, would be appreciated by the 15 jury. And you should cooperate, Mr. Downing. 16 MR. DOWNING: 17 THE COURT: Understood. No reason to -- to extend this. I still 18 am not sure, Mr. Andres, give me another try, tell me why it 19 matters, apart from the fact that whether it's income or a 20 gift, and nobody is going to contend any of this money was a 21 gift, but why it matters for us to go into detail about who 22 these contributors were and so forth. 23 MR. ANDRES: That it prove -- it proves the flow of 24 money. We have to prove where the money came from. 25 again, Your Honor, we're all tired. And, So I don't mean to be Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 193 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1172 1 disrespectful, but this seems to me the very type of evidence 2 that Your Honor was saying we should move on to, and here we 3 are. 4 prove that these men in the Ukraine, Rinat Akhmetov, 5 Sergei Lyovochkin, Borys Kolesnikov are the payers. 6 the money to the DMP. So we're just trying to prove this. 7 We're trying to They pay Now, the way they do it are through companies, not 8 in their name, Cyprus companies, and Mr. Manafort's companies 9 that are in Cyprus, not in his name, and that's where the 10 money sits. 11 form the basis of the false tax filing. 12 So there you have the foreign bank accounts which Okay. That money is then moved to the United 13 States. 14 It's used to pay a whole host of different things, and that's 15 the income that's not reported. 16 THE COURT: 17 18 It's income. It's not reported to his accountants. Well, I agree with everything you've said. Now, tomorrow if you ask a question about who is 19 this guy and what does he do and how does he benefit from 20 giving this money, you will see why I am confused about why 21 that makes any difference. 22 MR. ANDRES: Again, Your Honor, I was just trying to 23 make the record clear -- Mr. Gates never described these as 24 necessarily or simply as political contributions. 25 to complete his answer with respect to that. So I wanted Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 194 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1173 1 I'm not -- I'm certainly not going to ask any 2 questions I've already asked. 3 That's not my goal. It is not going to happen. I share your interest in moving it along. 4 I will say that I am -- I -- you know -- 5 THE COURT: Tell me why these are not political 6 contributions if they're trying to help get a candidate 7 elected and why it makes any difference. 8 9 10 The only thing that matters is that they paid Mr. Manafort money that he didn't report. That's what the case is about. 11 MR. ANDRES: I don't fundamentally disagree with 12 that except for the fact that I don't think it's appropriate 13 to not explain to the jury why they are making these payments, 14 right? 15 So why exactly these people are paying millions and 16 millions of dollars, more than $60 million over time to 17 Mr. Manafort. 18 It's not -- it's not extraneous or irrelevant to 19 explain that these people control industry and have the money 20 to make the payments. 21 It's one. 22 That's all. It's not ten questions. So -THE COURT: All right. Well, it occurs to me that I 23 am unnecessarily -- I am unnecessarily extending this by 24 continuing this conversation. 25 But you are both under my firm desire that you Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 195 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1174 1 should do what you can to expedite this matter and not spend 2 time on matters that aren't relevant. 3 MR. ANDRES: I will do that, Judge, but the notion 4 that we're going to meet with Mr. Downing tonight to help him 5 understand what Mr. Gates' testimony is so we can 6 expedite it -- 7 THE COURT: I'm not requiring you to meet with 8 Mr. Downing. I am requiring -- the only thing I've said is 9 give him the chart on the things and -- I'm up here. 10 MR. ANDRES: 11 THE COURT: 12 in the Ukraine. 13 questions. Sorry. Give him a chart that says when he was We'll at least get rid of some of those We don't have to have passports in the record. 14 MR. ANDRES: 15 THE COURT: Got it. Good. Past that. See, and if you can see other 16 areas where you can do it, do it. 17 meet with him. 18 But you're not required to I do want you to make every effort to expedite this 19 matter. 20 stipulate something will expedite it, wonderful. 21 And if meeting with Mr. Downing and getting him to MR. ANDRES: We will do that, Judge. You'll 22 remember from the opening statements that's central to the 23 defense case was that this whole -- whole conspiracy was 24 Mr. Gates doing so. 25 bit of leniency in being able to introduce documents which I would just ask the Court for a slight Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 196 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1175 1 corroborate Mr. Gates' testimony, because, obviously, in every 2 case, I'm sure most that you've had, the credibility of a 3 cooperating witness is central. 4 We want to be able to corroborate that with 5 documentary evidence which he had, which we seized from 6 Mr. Manafort's house and the like. 7 witness these documents are critical. 8 9 10 THE COURT: All right. and I will have that in mind. So that's why with this I will cut them down -- That's a good explanation Anything else you think I should have in mind? 11 MR. ANDRES: That's about it, Judge. We're hoping 12 to finish tomorrow morning and with your instruction, we'll 13 get to moving it along. 14 disrespectful. 15 16 THE COURT: For sure. And I didn't mean to be Don't worry about it. I'm not concerned about that at all. 17 I remember trying cases. I don't think I ever 18 had -- I had big cases that I thought were important. 19 were important to me, important to my career. 20 the stress and I remember the pressure. 21 true for both of you -- I mean all of you. 22 This is a stressful time. They And I remember And so I know that's So I understand that. 23 But I'm trying to minimize the stress time is all I'm trying 24 to do. 25 And I think we can do it. I don't think this case is as complex as it could be Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 197 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1176 1 2 3 made to be. I think it's simpler than that. And you do what you think you have to do. object if you think he's getting to this irrelevant stuff. 4 And I'll rule on it. 5 MR. ANDRES: 6 THE COURT: 7 And you Thank you, Judge. All right. Have a good night. We're in recess until 9:30. (Proceedings adjourned at 5:50 p.m.) 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 198 of 580 1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 2 3 I, Tonia Harris, an Official Court Reporter for 4 the Eastern District of Virginia, do hereby certify that I 5 reported by machine shorthand, in my official capacity, the 6 proceedings had and testimony adduced upon the Jury Trial 7 in the case of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA versus PAUL J. 8 MANAFORT, JR., Criminal Action No. 1:18-CR-83, in said 9 court on the 6th day of August, 2018. 10 I further certify that the foregoing 197 pages 11 constitute the official transcript of said proceedings, as 12 taken from my machine shorthand notes, my computer realtime 13 display, together with the backup tape recording of said 14 proceedings to the best of my ability. 15 16 In witness whereof, I have hereto subscribed my name, this August 6, 2018. 17 18 19 20 21 22 ______________________________ Tonia M. Harris, RPR Official Court Reporter 23 24 25 1177 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 199 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1178 1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA ALEXANDRIA DIVISION 2 3 4 5 6 7 ------------------------------x : UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, : : versus : : PAUL J. MANAFORT, JR., : : Defendant. : ------------------------------x Criminal Action No. 1:18-CR-83 August 7, 2018 Volume VI - A.M. 8 TRANSCRIPT OF JURY TRIAL BEFORE THE HONORABLE T.S. ELLIS, III UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE 9 10 APPEARANCES: 11 FOR THE GOVERNMENT: UZO ASONYE, AUSA United States Attorney's Office 2100 Jamieson Avenue Alexandria, VA 22314 and GREG ANDRES, SAUSA BRANDON LANG VAN GRACK, SAUSA Special Counsel's Office U.S. Department of Justice 950 Pennsylvania Avenue NW Washington, D.C. 20530 FOR THE DEFENDANT: JAY ROHIT NANAVATI, ESQ. BRIAN KETCHAM, ESQ. Kostelanetz & Fink LLP 601 New Jersey Avenue NW Suite 620 Washington, DC 20001 and THOMAS E. ZEHNLE, ESQ. Law Office of Thomas E. Zehnle 601 New Jersey Avenue NW Suite 620 Washington, DC 20001 and KEVIN DOWNING, ESQ. Law Office of Kevin Downing 601 New Jersey Avenue NW Suite 620 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 200 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1179 1 Washington, DC 20001 and RICHARD WILLIAM WESTLING, ESQ. Epstein, Becker, & Green, PC 1227 25th Street NW Washington, DC 20037 2 3 4 OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER: 5 6 TONIA M. HARRIS, RPR U.S. District Court, Ninth Floor 401 Courthouse Square Alexandria, VA 22314 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 201 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1180 1 TABLE OF CONTENTS TRIAL WITNESSES 2 3 On behalf of the Government: 4 Richard Gates (cont'd from 8/6/18) 5 Direct examination by Mr. Andres................. 1185 6 7 EXHIBITS On behalf of the Government: Admitted 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 Number Number Number Number Number Number Number Number Number Number Number Number Number Number Number Number Number Number Number Number Number Number Number Number 66F............................................... 66B............................................... 350............................................... 352............................................... 364............................................... 370............................................... 427. ............................................ 373............................................... 219............................................... 375............................................... 375............................................... 376............................................... 220............................................... 380............................................... 235............................................... 237............................................... 240............................................... 263............................................... 384............................................... 262............................................... 137............................................... 389............................................... 388............................................... 424............................................... 1190 1198 1209 1213 1216 1228 1232 1258 1260 1261 1263 1264 1268 1280 1284 1289 1291 1291 1293 1295 1296 1303 1304 1306 MISCELLANY Preliminary matters...................................... 1181 Certificate of Court Reporter............................ 1310 23 24 25 Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 202 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1181 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 (Court proceedings commenced at 9:33 a.m.) 3 4 5 6 7 THE COURT: All right. The record will reflect that counsel and the defendant are present, prepared to proceed. Anything we need to deal with at the outset, Mr. Andres? MR. ANDRES: Just briefly, Judge. We have had a 8 chance to work with the defense, and we appreciate their 9 cooperation. 10 I understand that they are going to stipulate to any venue issues, so we'll be able to avoid any evidence -- 11 THE COURT: 12 MR. ANDRES: 13 14 15 16 Good. -- with exhibits or witnesses. And maybe we can just get that on the record from the defendant. THE COURT: All right. Well, you're both to be complimented for that. Now, there are other things. I've received the 17 Government's briefs on the summaries. The rules are pretty 18 clear on that, as are the cases. 19 difficult to discern is an indistinct line is between the 20 presentation of voluminous data by way of charts and advocacy. 21 In other words, it is appropriate for the Government The line that sometimes is 22 to prepare summary charts. It's not appropriate for the 23 Government to present charts that do that and advocate at the 24 same time by the way the matter is presented. 25 to look at all of it. I'm not going That's your problem. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 203 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1182 1 MR. DOWNING: 2 THE COURT: Understood. So if there's no objection, you need to 3 let me know and counsel for the Government so we can proceed 4 expeditiously. 5 Anything else this morning? 6 MR. ANDRES: If we could just have our colleagues 7 from the defense side put on the record that they have no 8 objection to venue, that would be -- I think complete that 9 issue. 10 11 12 THE COURT: I'm sorry, I didn't hear you, Mr. Andres? MR. ANDRES: I just was asking Mr. Downing to 13 confirm that he's not going to object or consent to the venue 14 issue and I think the best way -- 15 THE COURT: All right. 16 was sufficient for me. 17 MR. DOWNING: 18 THE COURT: Well, your representation We consent, Your Honor. Yes. Okay. I'm sure he would have 19 popped up if you had said something he didn't agree with. 20 if you represented to me that it was done that way, I accept 21 the representation of counsel. 22 All right. 23 (Jury in.) 24 THE COURT: 25 And You may bring the jury in, please. You may be seated. Of course I can see all of you are present and prepared to proceed. For purposes Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 204 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1183 1 of the record, I will have Ms. Pham call the roll by the 2 numbers and we will proceed. 3 4 THE DEPUTY CLERK: Ladies and gentlemen, as I call your name, please answer "present" or "here." 5 Juror 0008. 6 THE JUROR: 7 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 8 THE JUROR: 9 THE DEPUTY CLERK: Present. Juror 0037. Here. 10 THE JUROR: 11 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 12 THE JUROR: 13 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 14 THE JUROR: 15 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 16 THE JUROR: 17 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 18 THE JUROR: 19 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 20 THE JUROR: 21 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 22 THE JUROR: 23 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 24 THE JUROR: 25 THE DEPUTY CLERK: Juror 0276. Present. Juror 0017. Present. Juror 0145. Present. Juror 0115. Present. Juror 0082. Present. Juror 0009. Present. Juror 0299. Present. Juror 0091. Present. Juror 0302. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 205 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1184 1 THE JUROR: Present. 2 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 3 THE JUROR: 4 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 5 THE JUROR: 6 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 7 THE JUROR: 8 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 9 THE JUROR: Present. Juror 0054. Present. Juror 0127. Present. THE DEPUTY CLERK: 11 THE JUROR: 12 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 13 THE COURT: 15 Juror 0296. Present. 10 14 Juror 0060. And Juror 0133. Present. Thank you. Once again, good morning, ladies and gentlemen. And I can understand your haziness on the number. 16 It brings to mind when I forgot my service number when I was 17 first a young member of the United States Navy. 18 a painful experience. 19 later, 647251. And that was And to this day, some 60-some years 20 (Audience laughter.) 21 Now, we'll proceed today. Let me confirm that all 22 of you were able to adhere to the Court's instructions to 23 refrain from discussing the case with anyone or undertaking 24 any investigation. 25 THE JURORS: Yes, Your Honor. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 206 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1185 1 THE COURT: Good. Thank you. 2 All right. Let's have Mr. Gates return. And, 3 Mr. Andres, you may complete your examination, which I think 4 you indicated would be another -- 5 MR. ANDRES: 6 THE COURT: 7 Good morning, sir. 8 Three to four hours, Judge. All right. oath, and you may resume the stand. 9 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 10 (Witness seated.) 11 THE COURT: 12 MR. ANDRES: 13 You'll recall you're still under All right. Mr. Andres, you may proceed. Thank you, Your Honor. (Witness previously sworn 8/6/2018.) DIRECT EXAMINATION 14 15 BY MR. ANDRES: 16 Q. 17 structure from businessmen in Ukraine to Mr. Manafort's shelf 18 companies in the -- in Cyprus. 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Okay. 21 did Mr. Manafort tell you why he was paid through Cypriote 22 entities? 23 A. 24 to set up Cyprus bank accounts in order to make transfers to 25 Mr. Manafort through entities that he needed to set up in Mr. Gates, yesterday you testified about a payment Yes. Do you remember that? With respect to the structure of those payments, He indicated that the Ukrainian businessmen wanted Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 207 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1186 1 Cyprus as well. 2 Q. 3 obtaining those payments from the Ukrainian businessmen? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Okay. 6 entities that were controlled by the Ukraine businessmen? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Are you familiar with the name Bedel Ventures Limited? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Who controlled Bedel Ventures Limited? 11 A. It was controlled by a businessman named Mr. Kolesnikov. 12 Q. And where is he from? 13 A. I believe he's from Ukraine. 14 Q. And did he hold a position in the -- in the government in 15 Ukraine? 16 A. 17 position of minister of transportation. 18 leader in the party. 19 Q. 20 Ventures Limited to Mr. Manafort's Cypriote accounts? 21 A. There were. 22 Q. And what were those payments for? 23 A. It was for political work for political campaigns. 24 Q. During the course of your work for Mr. Manafort, did you 25 become familiar with an entity named Dresler Holdings Limited? During the course of that process, were you involved in And did you learn the names of the Cypriote He did. In the time that they were in power, he held the That was also a Are you aware of whether there were payments from Bedel Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 208 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1187 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. What was Dresler Holdings Limited? 3 A. Dresler Holdings was an entity held by another Ukrainian 4 businessman, Serhiy Tihipko, who helped finance the lobbying 5 campaign in the United States and the European Union. 6 Q. And those payments were made to Mr. Manafort? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Are you familiar with an entity called Firemax 9 Corporation? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. What is Firemax Corporation? 12 A. Firemax Corporation is an entity, again, that was held by 13 Mr. Kolesnikov. 14 Q. Inlord Sales, LLP, can you tell me what that was? 15 A. Yes. 16 for payments regarding political work. 17 Q. Payments to Mr. Manafort? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. How about Mistaro Ventures Limited? 20 A. Mistaro Ventures was also Mr. Kolesnikov and, again, 21 payments for political work for Mr. Manafort. 22 Q. Novirex Sales, LLP, are you familiar with that entity? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. What is? 25 A. Novirex was held by another businessman named Andriy It was used for political work. That was an entity, again, held by Mr. Kolesnikov Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 209 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1188 1 Klyuyev, and it was a payment for political work. 2 Q. You said Andriy Klyuyev. 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Was he identified by certain initials on memorandum and 5 otherwise at your company? 6 A. He was. 7 Q. What initials? 8 A. AK. 9 Q. How about Plymouth Consultants Limited, what was that? 10 A. Plymouths Consultants Limited was an entity held by 11 Ukrainian businessman named Victor Pinchuk, and that was in 12 relation to a legal project. 13 Q. 14 to be? 15 A. 16 businessman, and it was in regards to expenses for a different 17 campaign. 18 Q. 19 bank accounts? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. How about Taunton Business Limited, what was that? 22 A. Taunton Business Limited is a company that was held by 23 Serhiy Lovochkin, and it was used for payments for political 24 work and for policy contract later on. 25 Q. How about Sea Chaika Corp., what did you understand that Sea Chaika Corp. was related to a non-Ukrainian And those payments were made into Mr. Manafort's Cypriote And how is Serhiy Lovochkin referenced in the various Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 210 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1189 1 memos from DMP International? 2 A. SL. 3 Q. How about Telmar Investments Limited? 4 A. Telmar was also held by Mr. Lovochkin, and it was 5 primarily used for political and policy work. 6 Q. And who did he make payments to? 7 A. Mr. Manafort. 8 Q. Viewpoint Trade, LLP? 9 A. Viewpoint Trade was a entity by Mr. Kolesnikov, and that 10 was used for political work. 11 Q. 12 entities used for the payments from the Ukrainian businessmen 13 to Mr. Manafort. Okay. 14 You testified about the various bank accounts and Was there a process in place to initiate payment? 15 A. There was. 16 Q. Did that involve the execution of consultancy agreements? 17 A. It did. 18 Q. Did you play a role with respect to the drafting of those 19 consultancy agreements? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Can you explain what the process was? 22 A. Yes. 23 leaders of the party. 24 political campaign for any given year. 25 amount and typically agree to a payment structure. Early on Mr. Manafort would sit with the relevant They would craft a budget for the They would agree to an Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 211 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1190 1 Once that payment structure was agreed to, I would 2 either be contacted by Mr. Manafort or Mr. Kilimnik to put 3 together a draft agreement, which outlined the terms of the 4 contract. 5 And then what they would typically do is we would be 6 given an amount. 7 Then we would have our Cypriote agent execute that contract, 8 send it back to Mr. Kilimnik, who would handle the contract on 9 the Ukrainian side. 10 Q. 11 66F. I would put the amount into the contract. Can I ask you to take a look at Government Exhibit 60 -- 12 MR. ANDRES: Your Honor, the Government moves to 13 admit 66F pursuant to 18 U.S.C. 3505. 14 business records that have been certified? 15 THE COURT: 16 MR. DOWNING: 17 THE COURT: They're international Any objection? No, Your Honor. Admitted. 18 (Government's Exhibit No. 66F 19 admitted into evidence.) 20 BY MR. ANDRES: 21 Q. 22 Exhibit 66F? 23 before? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Do they include some of the consultancy agreements that Mr. Gates, can I ask you to take a look at Government Can you tell me, have you seen those documents Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 212 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1191 1 you were referring to? 2 A. They do. 3 Q. Do they also include loan agreements? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Let me start with Government Exhibit 66F at Page 11 at 6 the bottom. 7 MR. ANDRES: 8 THE COURT: 9 Your Honor, may I publish this exhibit? You may. BY MR. ANDRES: 10 Q. Mr. Gates, can you tell me what's contained in Government 11 Exhibit 66F at Page 11? 12 A. 13 that was a template given to us by our Cypriote attorney. 14 would typically fill in the details regarding the agreement 15 and the parties between which the payment was made and then it 16 would also contain the amount of that specific payment that 17 was going to be made. 18 Q. 19 the date of the agreement is? 20 A. The date of this agreement is 5 June 2012. 21 Q. And can you identify who the parties are? 22 A. Parties are Black Sea View Limited and Dresler Holdings 23 Limited. 24 Q. What was Black Sea View Limited? 25 A. Black Sea View Limited was an entity held by Mr. Manafort Yes. Okay. This is an example of the consultancy agreement We If you look at the agreement, can you tell me what Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 213 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1192 1 in Cyprus. 2 Q. And how about Dresler Holdings Limited? 3 A. Dresler Holdings Limited was an entity held by Serhiy 4 Tihipko. 5 Q. 6 Page 13? Can I ask you to turn to paragraph 4, which is on 7 What's contained in paragraph 4 of this consultancy 8 agreement? 9 A. The amount that was actually paid in the contract. So 10 this did not represent the total contract value, but just 11 actually how much money was being wired from the Ukrainian 12 businessmen. 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. In this contract it's $1.1 million. 15 Q. Can I ask you to turn to the page at 66F, Page 15? 16 And how much is listed in this contract? What was that, Mr. Gates? 17 A. This is another consultancy agreement that was prepared 18 in regards to a payment for a different project. 19 Q. Okay. 20 A. Since it was Telmar Investments, it was likely either 21 related to the parliamentary election in 2012 or it could have 22 been the policy work that was done as well. 23 Q. Can you tell us what the date of this agreement is? 24 A. 1 June 2012. 25 Q. And who are the parties? Do you know what project this is for? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 214 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1193 1 A. Black Sea View Limited and Telmar Investments Limited. 2 Q. And you previously testified about Black Sea View 3 Limited. 4 A. 5 Lovochkin, a Ukrainian businessmen. 6 Q. 7 company documents? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Can you turn to -- at paragraph 4, and tell us what the What's Telmar Investments? Telmar Investments, again, is an entity held by Mr. And Mr. Lovochkin is referred to as "SL" throughout the 10 amount agreed upon for some portion of this contract was? 11 A. 12 euros. 13 Q. 14 contract? 15 A. It does not. 16 Q. Can you turn to Page 12 of the agreement? 17 it's -- scratch that. 18 Page 21. In this particular contract, the fee is for 1 million Okay. 19 And does that constitute the full payment of the I think It's at the bottom of Page 21. 66F, Do you see the reference there to Chrysostomides & 20 Company? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. What is that? 23 A. Chrysostomides is the company with the law firm that 24 Mr. Manafort employed to set up the various Cypriote entities 25 and which all Cypriote paperwork went to. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 215 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1194 1 Q. And is that -- was that firm associated with Dr. K? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Can I ask you to turn to Page 25? 4 Can you tell me what this is? 5 A. Again, it's another consultancy agreement for a specific 6 project. 7 Q. And who is this agreement between? 8 A. This agreement is between Black Sea View Limited and 9 Dresler Holdings Limited. 10 Q. And what is Dresler Holdings? 11 A. Dresler Holdings is an entity that was held by Serhiy 12 Tihipko. 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. ST. 15 Q. Can I ask you to turn to Page 37? 16 And what are his initials? Do you see that? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. What's -- is there a consultancy agreement included on 19 Page 37? 20 A. There is. 21 Q. And who are the entities? 22 A. Peranova Holdings Limited and Telmar Investments Limited. 23 Q. And what's the date of the agreement? 24 A. 1 November 2011. 25 Q. And you previously testified that Telmar related to Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 216 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1195 1 Serhiy Lovochkin. 2 What is Peranova Holdings Limited? 3 A. Peranova Holdings Limited is a company that Mr. Manafort 4 set up in Cyprus. 5 Q. 6 Ukraine business -- Ukrainian businessmen? 7 A. It did. 8 Q. Okay. 9 represented -- or was that income ever represented as And did Peranova Holdings Limited receive income from the That's the same entity that you -- that you 10 something else to either Ms. Washkuhn or to the tax preparers? 11 A. It was. 12 Q. What was it classified as? 13 A. It was classified as a loan. 14 Q. Okay. 15 A. Mr. Manafort. 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. At the time, I believe that he was trying to decrease the 18 amount of taxable income for that particular tax year. 19 Q. 20 from Peranova Holdings? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Okay. 23 A. Mr. Manafort. 24 Q. And was there consistently income to Peranova Holdings? 25 A. There was. And who classified it as a loan? Why did he do that? As far as you're aware, was there ever a loan extended And who controlled Peranova Holdings? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 217 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1196 1 Q. And where did that come from? 2 A. It came from the electoral work that we did in Cyprus. 3 Q. Can I ask you to turn to Page -- 4 A. Excuse me, in Ukraine. 5 Q. Can I ask you to turn to Page 64 of Government Exhibit 6 66F? 7 Can you tell me what that is? 8 A. Another consultancy agreement. 9 Q. And who's this between? 10 A. Leviathan Advisors and Telmar Investments. 11 Q. Okay. 12 Advisors? 13 A. 14 Mr. Manafort in Cyprus. 15 Q. Okay. 16 A. It was to receive payments. 17 it was related to the policy contract. 18 Q. And what was the purpose of these payments? 19 A. The purpose of these payments was for policy work. 20 Q. Can you turn to Paragraph 4 in the agreement, which is on 21 Page 41? You testified about Telmar. What's Leviathan Leviathan Advisors is another entity that was set up by 22 For what purpose? In this case, it looks like Can you identify for the jury what the terms of this 23 agreement were in terms of payment? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Okay. It was a fee of 3 million euros. Why is this contract in euros and not dollars? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 218 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1197 1 A. At a point in time, the Ukrainian businessmen started 2 using the euro currency as opposed to U.S. dollar currency 3 because, in some instances, it was easier to make payments, 4 and in other instances, the currency exchange rate was better 5 using the euro. 6 Q. Can I ask you to turn to Page 75? 7 Do you see the signature page for this consultancy 8 agreement? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Who signed on behalf of the parties? 11 A. So these are both the Cypriote directors of the companies 12 that represented each of the Cyprus entities. 13 Q. 14 "Inter Jura CY"? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. What is that? 17 A. Inter Jura CY was a subsidiary company of 18 Mr. Chrysostomides. 19 director companies and they just act as directors for the 20 various companies that are set up. 21 Jura pertained to the Leviathan entity. 22 Q. 23 Mr. Manafort, Leviathan, for example, did they sell any 24 products? 25 A. Do you see a reference at the bottom of the page to In Cyprus, you have what they call So in this case, Inter And the entities that were set up on behalf of No. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 219 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1198 1 Q. Did they have any employees? 2 A. No. 3 Q. What was the purpose of those entities? 4 A. The purpose of the entities was to accept payments and 5 make payments in and out of the companies. 6 Q. Can I ask you to turn to Government Exhibit 66B? 7 MR. ANDRES: Your Honor, the Government admits 66B 8 also pursuant to 18 U.S.C. 3505 international bank records 9 that have been certified. 10 MR. DOWNING: 11 THE COURT: No objection. Admitted. 12 (Government's Exhibit No. 66B 13 admitted into evidence.) 14 BY MR. ANDRES: 15 Q. 16 you turn to Page -- at the bottom, it says Page 006? With respect to Government Exhibit 66B, Mr. Gates, can 17 MR. ANDRES: 18 THE COURT: May I publish that, Your Honor? Yes. 19 BY MR. ANDRES: 20 Q. Can you tell me what that is, Mr. Gates? 21 A. This is a -- again, a consultancy agreement between DMP 22 International and Telmar Investments Limited. 23 Q. 24 directly? 25 A. Okay. And these agreements identified DMP International Yes. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 220 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1199 1 Q. And why have these changed that there's no reference to 2 the Cypriote entity? 3 A. 4 specific bank, and because of the difficulty in many cases of 5 getting payments from Cyprus to the United States, he 6 approached the bank directly and outlined for them the type of 7 work that he did. 8 the risk, if you will, of accepting payments from Cyprus. 9 then we were able to get the payments directly from the At a point in time, Mr. Manafort had worked with a As a result, they were willing to take on So 10 Ukrainian businessmen into the business account in the United 11 States? 12 13 MR. DOWNING: Your Honor, can I have a moment just to ask a question of the Government? 14 (A pause in the proceedings.) 15 THE COURT: 16 MR. DOWNING: Mr. Downing, I didn't quite hear you. I'm sorry. I just wanted to confer 17 with Government as to where we were in the exhibit. 18 you. 19 THE COURT: 20 BY MR. ANDRES: 21 Q. All right. You've done so. Thank Proceed. And can you turn to Paragraph 4 of this document? 22 And can you identify what the terms of this document 23 were? 24 A. Yes, this is for a payment of $1 million. 25 Q. Okay. And do you -- do you remember which project this Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 221 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1200 1 document -- this contract relates to? 2 A. 3 that Mr. Manafort began working on called the Opposition BLOC. 4 Q. 5 President Yanukovych, was he still in power? 6 A. He was not. 7 Q. And what had happened to the Party of Regions? 8 A. The Party of Regions had dissolved for the most part. 9 Q. Okay. Yes, this would be in relation to a new political project Okay. At the point that the Opposition BLOC began, was And with respect to this document -- let me show 10 you first, there's another one at Page 019 -- yeah, I'm 11 sorry -- yeah, 019. 12 Can you tell me what that is? 13 A. Yes. 14 International and Telmar Investments. 15 Q. Okay. 16 A. Again, this is related to the Opposition BLOC political 17 work. 18 Q. 19 031, you testified that the contract is in the name of DMP. 20 Who signs for DMP? 21 A. 22 Cyprus, we had our Cypriote director sign it. 23 Q. 24 the payment still goes to Cyprus? 25 A. Okay. This is a consultancy agreement between DMP And what does this project relate to? If you look at the last page of that contract, In this case, because the transfer was occurring from So even though the agreement is between DMP and Telmar, No, the payment went directly to DMP. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 222 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1201 1 Q. Okay. 2 A. I have -- I don't know. 3 Q. Okay. 4 A. Inter Jura is controlled by Chrysostomides and company. 5 Q. Okay. 6 Is it fair to say there are more of these or these are 7 examples of the types of documents you used to get payment? 8 A. Yes, they are. 9 Q. Okay. 10 And so why is Inter Jura signing on behalf of DMP? But Inter Jura, who controls that entity? I've shown you a series of consultancy agreements. Let me ask you to turn back to Government Exhibit 66F and look at the first page. 11 Can you tell me what that is? 12 A. Yes, this is a loan agreement that was constructed in 13 regards to the financial transfer between the two entities in 14 Cyprus. 15 Q. Okay. 16 A. So in Cyprus you also had to file what were called 17 audits. 18 recorded, there needed to be some sort of agreements between 19 the various entities that received payments and had outgoing 20 payments. 21 every financial transaction in Cyprus was tracked. 22 Q. 23 payments from the Ukraine businessmen to Mr. Manafort? 24 A. Our law firm did, yes. 25 Q. Okay. And what was the purpose of this loan document? And in order to ensure that all transactions were So it was, in essence, a way to make sure that So as part of this Cyprus audit, did you track all of the And were you involved in that process? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 223 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1202 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And was Mr. Manafort? 3 A. He was aware of the process. 4 day-to-day basis. 5 Q. 6 actually loans between the Ukrainian businesses and the -- 7 Mr. Manafort's Cypriote account? 8 A. 9 was basically money moving among the accounts. 10 Q. 11 12 Okay. He wasn't involved from a And in terms of those loan agreements, were there In Cyprus, they were documented as loans. Okay. In reality, it And for the -THE COURT: By that, do you mean they were compensation? 13 THE WITNESS: 14 THE COURT: 15 THE WITNESS: 16 THE COURT: 17 THE WITNESS: 18 THE COURT: 19 THE WITNESS: 20 THE COURT: Yeah, so -- For work done? Yes, correct, Your Honor. Compensation for work done. Yes. By the Manafort group. Yes. Next question. 21 BY MR. ANDRES: 22 Q. 23 dated correctly, the loan agreements? 24 A. 25 dates of the transactions. Were you involved -- were those documents, were they They were -- the dates of the agreements are based on the Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 224 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1203 1 Q. Okay. 2 A. But these -- a lot of the loan agreements are backdated 3 simply because in Cyprus, you have the ability to file your 4 audits two years after the calendar year in which the work was 5 done. 6 Q. 7 businessmen to Mr. Manafort. 8 policy work? 9 A. It did. 10 Q. Okay. 11 the Ukraine? 12 A. 13 Party of Regions took control, Mr. Manafort entered into a 14 policy contract. 15 sense of once Mr. Yanukovych was elected, he was elected on a 16 platform of issues. 17 political officials there to help implement those policy 18 initiatives based on those campaign promises. 19 Q. 20 or payments over a two-year period of time? 21 A. 22 president was elected, it was on an annual basis. 23 belief was, is that it would be for the duration of the 24 president's tenure. 25 Q. So they give you a little bit of time. You testified earlier about payments from Ukrainian Did that include payments for What type of policy work did Mr. Manafort do in When Viktor Yanukovych was elected president and the And we describe it as policy advisory in the So Mr. Manafort worked with the local And was there an agreement for a two-year policy contract Well, it was -- it started out as potentially once the But the And in terms of the two years, at least, what were -Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 225 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1204 1 what were the terms or the payments? 2 amount and what were the installment payments? 3 A. 4 I think one year, it was actually changed again from a 5 denomination point of view to 4 million euros, and then the 6 payments were broken up into $1 million quarterly payments. 7 Q. Uh-huh. So the total amount was $4 million a year. And Can I ask you to turn to Government Exhibit 359? 8 9 What was the total Can you tell me what that is when you get there? Excuse me. 10 A. Yes. This is a memo that I prepared for Mr. Manafort in 11 regards to the payments that were outstanding and the payments 12 that had been made related to the policy contract work in 13 2011. 14 Q. Let me just stop you there. 15 MR. ANDRES: Your Honor, the Government moves to 16 admit Government Exhibit 359. 17 Judge. I'm sorry. 18 Excuse me. THE COURT: 19 BY MR. ANDRES: 20 Q. Oh, it's in evidence already, May I publish it? Yes, you may. Can we start with the top, Mr. Gates? 21 Can you explain who the document is to, from, the 22 subject, and the date? 23 A. 24 The subject is consulting payments. 25 2011. Yes. The document is to SL and YN from Mr. Manafort. The date is October 11, Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 226 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1205 1 Q. You've testified previously about SL. How about YN, who 2 is that? 3 A. YN was Mr. Lovochkin's sister. 4 Q. Do you know what her last name was? 5 A. Nemovskiy (ph), I think, Nemovskiy. 6 Q. Okay. 7 A. Mr. Manafort. 8 Q. And the subject is consulting payments. 9 refer to? Her name was Yulia (ph). And who's the -- who's the memorandum from? What does that 10 A. This refers to the policy contract work that Mr. Manafort 11 had at this time. 12 Q. 13 jury? 14 A. 15 and the fees that have been paid in relation to the consulting 16 agreement between Telmar Investments and Leviathan Advisors 17 for March 2011 to 2012." 18 Q. 19 from Telmar to Leviathan? 20 A. 21 who was paying the policy contract. 22 the four million, in this case, euros a year. 23 at the document, you can see it's broken down by quarter. 24 it tracks the actual quarterly payment made. 25 Q. Can you read the first paragraph and explain it to the (As read): "This document outlines the total fees owed And what does that mean that the fees that have been paid Again, Telmar is an entity that was held by Mr. Lovochkin So the terms, again, were And if you look So And once the money gets to Leviathan, do you know what Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 227 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1206 1 Mr. Manafort does with it then? 2 A. 3 case to the United States. 4 Leviathan. 5 Q. 6 ever report that to Heather Washkuhn, Mr. Manafort's 7 bookkeeper? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Did you ever report it to any of his tax preparers at I don't. I mean, he moved money from Leviathan in some In some cases, he left it in With respect to the Leviathan account in Cyprus, did you 10 KWC? 11 A. No. 12 Q. There's a chart on the memo in Government Exhibit 359. 13 Can you explain what that is? 14 MR. ANDRES: 15 Your Honor, is that me with the feedback? 16 THE WITNESS: The chart indicates, again, the -- 17 both the expenses and the quarterly payments that have both 18 been made and the outstanding balance that is still due. 19 BY MR. ANDRES: 20 Q. 21 does that refer to? 22 A. 23 the expenses. 24 Q. And in what denomination is that listed? 25 A. This contract is in euros. And at the bottom where it says, "total contract," what That's the total contract value for that year included in Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 228 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1207 1 Q. Okay. For the last -- can you just read the last line of 2 the memorandum? 3 A. 4 soon as possible." 5 Q. And what did you understand that to mean? 6 A. That Mr. Manafort was looking for the remaining balance 7 that was due on the contract. 8 Q. 9 being paid for in Government Exhibit 359, did you write memos "I am requesting that this outstanding balance be paid as With respect to the policy work that Mr. Manafort is 10 on behalf of Mr. Manafort to outline that work? 11 A. 12 Ukraine. 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. They would typically go to various members of the party 15 leadership, including Mr. Lovochkin, who, at this time, was 16 the chief of staff to the president, and in some cases, to the 17 president himself. 18 Q. 19 Yes, in some cases, I did as well as the staff in And who did those memos go to, for example? Can I ask you to turn to Government Exhibit 350? Can you tell me what that is? 20 A. This is a memo that was drafted by our two lobbying firms 21 that were hired in the United States, and they put together a 22 memo that went from Mr. Manafort to the president of the 23 Ukraine to describe the activity. 24 Q. And what were those lobbying firms? 25 A. It was Mercury Public Affairs and the Podesta Group. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 229 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1208 1 Q. And this is part of the work that you were doing for the 2 overall policy project? 3 A. 4 Ukraine, but it was related to policy, yes. 5 Q. 6 those were the payments that we just saw in the prior exhibit 7 from Serhiy Lovochkin? 8 A. 9 payment specifically for the lobbying work from Mr. Tihipko. It was labeled as a different project called Engage Okay. And in terms of the payment for Mr. Manafort, Some of those payments were, but there was a separate 10 Q. 11 payments that were -- 12 A. Oh, yes. 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. Payments to Mr. Manafort, correct. 15 Q. And then just in terms -- you mentioned Engage Ukraine. 16 What was that? 17 A. 18 enter into the European Union, and as a result, a public 19 affairs effort was put together both in the EU and the U.S. 20 for that work. 21 Q. 22 Project? 23 A. 24 25 I'm referring to the payments to Mr. Manafort, not the Engage Ukraine became the strategy for helping Ukraine Was there also a project referred to as the Hapsburg Yes. MR. ANDRES: Your Honor, the Government moves to admit Government Exhibit 350. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 230 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1209 1 MR. DOWNING: 2 THE COURT: No objection. Admitted. 3 (Government's Exhibit No. 350 4 admitted into evidence.) 5 MR. ANDRES: 6 THE COURT: 7 MR. DOWNING: 8 Q. All right. 9 May I publish it? Yes. Zoom in on the top. Just with respect to Government Exhibit 350 that you 10 testified about, can you identify the heading of the memo? 11 A. 12 Mr. Manafort. 13 Q. 14 quarterly report. 15 A. 16 U.S. consulting firms identified. 17 Q. 18 project called the Hapsburg Project. 19 A. 20 kind of tied into the overall effort to have Ukraine align 21 with the European Union. Yes, it was to the president, Mr. Yanukovych, from Okay. And there's a reference to U.S. consultants What does that refer to? This refers to the report that was drafted by the two Okay. I was asking you whether you were familiar with a What was that? The Hapsburg Project was a separate initiative that was 22 The Hapsburg Group used former European politicians 23 to help interface with European politicians to work on that 24 effort. 25 Q. Was there also work that you did together with Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 231 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1210 1 Mr. Manafort that involved hiring of an international law 2 firm? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Okay. 5 A. Skadden Arps. 6 Q. And work did that relate to? 7 A. Skadden Arps related to a independent legal report that 8 was done in conjunction with a former political official that 9 had a trial in Ukraine. What law firm was that? 10 Q. You testified that, at some point, Mr. Manafort's work 11 for President Yanukovych and the Party of Regions came to an 12 end? 13 A. It did. 14 Q. Approximately, when was that? 15 A. The last project we did for the Party of Regions was at 16 the beginning of 2014, and then we picked up with another 17 political project that also went to the end of 2014 in 18 October. 19 Q. 20 lost power, what effect, if any, did that have on 21 Mr. Manafort's income stream? 22 A. I would say that it decreased the income stream. 23 Q. How? 24 A. Because there was a change in the -- in the power 25 structure and a new political party needed to be created, With respect to the time frame when President Yanukovych Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 232 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1211 1 which meant that we had to go through and work to build a new 2 contract. 3 Q. Did you work with the Opposition BLOC? 4 A. I did. 5 Q. And did the Opposition BLOC ever come to power within 6 Ukraine? 7 A. It didn't come to power. 8 Q. Okay. 9 for the Opposition BLOC? It won seats in Parliament. As a result of work that you and Mr. Manafort did 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. As a result of it being the minority party, were you able 12 to do additional work for Opposition BLOC? 13 A. 14 BLOC, but because most of the Opposition BLOC or a good 15 portion of it had been aligned with the Party of Regions, they 16 were, in essence, out of power. 17 more difficult to come by. 18 Q. 19 Mr. Manafort or obtain additional work for the Opposition 20 BLOC? 21 A. No. 22 Q. At some point, in addition to working for the Opposition 23 BLOC, did you also work on local elections? 24 A. We worked on local elections in the prior year. 25 Q. Okay. The hope was to do additional work for the Opposition Okay. So the income streams were And did you continue to obtain additional work for And what election did that relate to? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 233 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1212 1 A. That related to the -- well, there was the presidential 2 election in 2014 that Mr. Manafort worked on very briefly. 3 And then the parliamentary election in 2014, which was at the 4 end of the year. 5 Q. 6 Mr. Manafort work for? 7 A. He was assisting the current president, Mr. Poroshenko. 8 Q. And was he paid for that work? 9 A. I don't believe he was. 10 Q. Was that work substantial with -- did he have the same 11 position with respect to that campaign that he had for 12 president -- 13 A. No, he did not. 14 Q. At some point did your work in the Ukraine come to an 15 end? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Approximately, when was that? 18 A. The last election we worked on was the parliamentary 19 election of 2014. 20 work after that time. 21 Q. 22 was Mr. Manafort paid in full? 23 A. He was not. 24 Q. Was he paid -- was part of his bill paid? 25 A. Yes, I believe part of the bill was paid. Okay. For the presidential election, who did And there was no other political campaign And with respect to that work for the Opposition BLOC, Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 234 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1213 1 Q. 2 me what that is? 3 A. 4 leadership of the Opposition BLOC party following the 5 parliamentary election in 2014. 6 MR. ANDRES: 7 If you can turn to Government Exhibit 352. Yes. Can you tell This is a memo that Mr. Manafort drafted to the Your Honor, the Government moves to admit Government Exhibit 352. 8 MR. DOWNING: 9 THE COURT: No objection. It's admitted. 10 (Government's Exhibit No. 352 11 admitted into evidence.) 12 MR. ANDRES: 13 THE COURT: May I publish it? You may. 14 BY MR. ANDRES: 15 Q. 16 that is? 17 A. 18 and myself indicating that he has attached the final version 19 of the memo, which outlines the priorities of the Opposition 20 BLOC strategy moving forward. 21 Q. 22 the last work you were doing in the Ukraine? 23 A. 24 additional contract. 25 Q. With respect to the cover e-mail, can you explain what Yes. It's an e-mail from Mr. Manafort to Mr. Kilimnik And this is the work you were describing that was sort of Yes. The hope was that this effort would lead to an Mr. Manafort writes, "Your opinions on when we should Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 235 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1214 1 circulate the memo, the options are next week for when I 2 arrive in Kyiv on approximately November 10th." 3 Did you have an understanding from this e-mail where 4 Mr. Manafort was when he wrote it? 5 A. I do not. 6 Q. Okay. 7 A. Correct. 8 Q. And was Mr. Manafort often able to manage his work in 9 Kyiv when he wasn't there? Is it fair to understand it wasn't in Kyiv? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And did you -- when you were not in Kyiv, were you able 12 to communicate with people there? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. With respect to the memo that's attached to Government 15 Exhibit 352, can I just ask you to look at the top of that 16 memo? 17 And identify who it's to, who's CC'd, and who it's 18 from. 19 A. 20 pretty much leading the new Opposition BLOC that's been 21 formed. 22 Ukrainian businessmen that were part of the Opposition BLOC 23 party. 24 Q. 25 play with respect to the Opposition BLOC? Yes. It's to Mr. Levochkin and Mr. Akhmetov who are And CC'd OB leadership, included a series of other What role did Serhiy Lovochkin or what role did SL and RA Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 236 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1215 1 A. They were principally the financiers of the new political 2 party. 3 Q. 4 receiving payment for his work for the Opposition BLOC. 5 you explain what efforts were made to obtain that payment? 6 A. 7 sent to Mr. Kilimnik to translate and deliver. 8 Mr. Manafort used Mr. Kilimnik to work with the Opposition 9 BLOC leadership to secure the payments. You testified earlier that Mr. Manafort had difficulty Yes. Can There were a series of memos that Mr. Manafort had In addition, 10 Q. And earlier you had testified about a process involving 11 consultancy agreements to initiate payment from the Ukraine 12 businessmen. 13 A. We did when the payments were made, yes. 14 Q. Okay. 15 payments from the Opposition BLOC, what role, if any, did you 16 play? 17 A. 18 payment was going to be made, I worked with the Cypriote law 19 firm to draft the consultancy agreement and then returned it 20 to Ukraine for execution. 21 Q. Did you follow that same procedure here? And with respect to that process to obtain the Again, once Mr. Kilimnik or Mr. Manafort confirmed that a Can I ask you to turn to Government's Exhibit 364? 22 Do you recognize that? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Are you listed on that e-mail? 25 A. I am. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 237 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1216 1 Q. And is there attached documents? 2 A. There is. 3 Q. Were you involved in preparing those? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And did these documents in the e-mail relate to the 6 efforts to obtain payment from the Opposition BLOC? 7 A. They did. 8 9 MR. ANDRES: The Government moves to admit 364, Your Honor. 10 MR. DOWNING: 11 THE COURT: No objection. Admitted. 12 (Government's Exhibit No. 364 13 admitted into evidence.) 14 MR. ANDRES: 15 THE COURT: May I publish it? You may. 16 BY MR. ANDRES: 17 Q. 18 can you identify who it's "to" and "from" and the date? 19 A. 20 2015. 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. Subject is "Contract for 1." 23 Q. Okay. 24 bottom, there's an e-mail from Mr. Kilimnik at 11:07 a.m. 25 you explain or summarize that e-mail? Starting with the top e-mail in Government Exhibit 364, It's to me from Mr. Kilimnik, and it's dated August 25, How about the subject? Starting with the e-mail all the way at the Can Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 238 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1217 1 A. Yes. 2 regarding the payment that Mr. Manafort was seeking from the 3 Opposition BLOC. 4 pro forma documents, including the details that he had given 5 me to execute the payment. 6 Q. 7 calm Paul down." Mr. Kilimnik asked me to send the initial There's a reference at the bottom that says, "This is to 8 9 Mr. Manafort and Mr. Kilimnik had been in contact What did you understand that to mean? A. The payment was well overdue. The campaign occurred in 10 October of 2014. So payment was significantly, you know, 11 overdue and Mr. Manafort was quite upset that the money had 12 not been sent. 13 process in order to, you know, create the -- create the 14 scenario that we were making the effort to get the payment. 15 Q. 16 of 2015? 17 A. 18 amount of income he had received from prior years. 19 Q. Was he having issues paying his bills? 20 A. He was. 21 Q. And at this time in July of 2015, did Mr. Manafort have 22 any work in the Ukraine? 23 A. No, not in the Ukraine. 24 Q. Did DMP International have any clients? 25 A. No. So Mr. Kilimnik wanted to start the paperwork And what was Mr. Manafort's financial situation in July It was, I'd say, substantially decreased in terms of the Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 239 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1218 1 Q. If you turn to the top portion of the e-mail there's a 2 reference that says, "I have no idea where this amount come 3 from, but this is SL's people's request anyway." 4 Can you explain that? 5 A. Yes. So, originally, Mr. Levochkin was going to send a 6 million per the agreement he and Mr. Manafort had entered 7 into. 8 Mr. Kilimnik then responded that the payment, in 9 essence, had been decreased and that they were going to be 10 sending a payment of 500,000 instead. 11 Q. 12 Exhibit 364? 13 A. 14 DMP International and Telmar Investments Limited, which was 15 Mr. Levochkin's entity. 16 Q. And why you were attaching this to -- did you draft this? 17 A. Yeah. 18 entered the information in terms of the individual parties. 19 Q. 20 Investments? 21 A. Mr. Levochkin. 22 Q. And if you look back at the e-mail, that's the reference 23 to "SL"? 24 A. It is. 25 Q. And do you know as of the time that you left DMP Okay. Can you look at the attachment of Government Can you tell me what that is? Again, this is the pro forma contract which identifies The Cypriote attorneys drafted the template. I And the Telmar Investments, who controlled Telmar Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 240 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1219 1 International whether or not this contract was ever paid in 2 full? 3 A. To my understanding, it was not paid in full. 4 Q. You can take that down. 5 When you first began working for Mr. Manafort, did 6 you understand that he had Cypriote accounts? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And do you know who set those accounts up? 9 A. I believe it was Mr. Manafort with the Cypriote attorney. 10 Q. Okay. 11 attorney? 12 A. Kypros Chrysostomides. 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. Dr. K. 15 Q. -- did he have a nickname? 16 A. Dr. K. 17 Q. Okay. 18 Dr. K? 19 A. There was. 20 Q. When? 21 A. I met with Dr. K in 2007 with Mr. Manafort. 22 Q. And where was -- where did that meeting take place? 23 A. It occurred in Cyprus. 24 Q. And why were you meeting with Dr. K? 25 A. We were meeting with him for two purposes. And who is the Cypriote -- Cypriote -- Cypriotic For efficiency -- Did there come a time when you met, yourself, Mr. Manafort Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 241 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1220 1 had just met with our investor for the private equity fund and 2 the investor wanted to have Mr. Manafort meet with him to 3 engage in potential political project, and then also to have 4 him coordinate some of the activity on our private equity 5 fund. 6 Q. 7 and entities in Cyprus? 8 A. We did. 9 Q. Okay. Did you also meet with Dr. K about opening bank accounts Did Dr. K explain to you the process involved with 10 opening up the shelf companies? 11 A. He did. 12 Q. What did he say to you? 13 THE COURT: Isn't that hearsay? If there's no 14 objection, I'll permit it. But we ought to avoid just 15 importing hearsay, putting to one side whether it's relevant. 16 MR. DOWNING: Objection, Your Honor, hearsay. 17 THE COURT: 18 (Audience laughter.) 19 THE COURT: 20 MR. ANDRES: 21 THE COURT: You're a little late. Mr. Andres, do you really need it? No, Your Honor. I can work around it. Thank you. 22 BY MR. ANDRES: 23 Q. 24 understand the process for opening the entities in Cyprus? 25 A. Based on your meetings with Dr. K, did you come to Yes. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 242 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1221 1 Q. And did you understand that there were some level of 2 secrecy involved? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Okay. 5 these meetings with Dr. K, was Mr. Manafort there? 6 A. He was. 7 Q. Can you explain what you understood the process for 8 setting up these shelf companies? 9 A. Yes. Can you explain what you understood -- and at When you set up a shelf company in Cyprus, the 10 individual that was setting it up wasn't necessarily on any of 11 the paper work. 12 within the law firm that was setting up the entities, and then 13 above that you had what they call two board members. 14 essence, you had four people controlling a Cypriote entity, 15 but the actual individual setting up the company name did not 16 appear on any of the incorporation material. 17 Q. 18 up, do you know who was listed as the directors, secretaries, 19 board members? 20 A. 21 generally of Mr. -- Dr. K's firm. 22 Q. 23 for Mr. Manafort, did his name appear on any of those 24 documents? 25 A. You had two directors, which were usually So, in With respect to the companies that were ultimately set Yes. The directors and board members were members So with respect to the Cypriote entities that were set up No. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 243 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1222 1 Q. Did you come to understand, based on your meeting with 2 Dr. K and Mr. Manafort, what the process was for setting up 3 bank accounts in Cyprus? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Can you describe that for the jury? 6 A. The law firm handled everything with respect to opening 7 the accounts. 8 a point of contact with the bank, but neither Mr. Manafort nor 9 myself had any interaction with the bank. Dr. K explained that to us as well. Initially in the earlier years they designated Later on that point 10 of contact came to be known what was an ultimate beneficial 11 owner. 12 publicly disclosed in any way. 13 Q. Was that an issue that was discussed in detail? 14 A. Yes, by Dr. K. 15 Q. And was that important to Mr. Manafort to understand how 16 his name would be represented on those documents? 17 A. 18 represented, nor was mine. 19 Q. 20 Peranova, Leviathan, Global Endeavor. 21 picked? 22 A. 23 all of those entities' names were selected by Dr. K's law firm 24 as shelf companies. 25 Q. And none of the information on the banking forms was I believe he understood that his name would not be Okay. You testified about a variety of different names, How were those names So, again, with the exception of a few of the entities, And with respect to all of the Cypriote entities that Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 244 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1223 1 Dr. K set up, did those companies -- did they exist for some 2 purpose or did they sell any product or provide any services? 3 A. No, but it was very common for them to set up. 4 Q. And what was -- 5 A. To conduct various work. 6 Q. What was the sole purpose of those companies? 7 A. In terms of setting them up in general or with respect to 8 Mr. Manafort? 9 Q. Just in terms of what they -- in setting them up for 10 Mr. Manafort, what function did those companies play? 11 A. 12 from the Ukrainian businessmen for the political contracts and 13 then for Mr. Manafort to, you know, determine what would be 14 done with that money. 15 Q. 16 different denominations? 17 A. They were. 18 Q. What denominations? 19 A. Primarily U.S. dollars and euros. 20 Q. Okay. 21 entities were set up at? 22 A. 23 was the Bank of Cyprus, Laiki Bank, and I think Marfin Popular 24 Bank. 25 Q. Oh, they serve to play the role of accepting the money And in terms of the bank accounts, were they set up in And do you know what banks in Cyprus those As I recall, there aren't many banks in Cyprus, but it And the money that was -- that was deposited in those Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 245 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1224 1 accounts for Mr. Manafort, was that income? 2 A. It was. 3 Q. And how did he earn it? 4 A. Through political campaign work in Ukraine. 5 Q. You testified earlier about on one of the contracts there 6 was a reference to Inter Jura. 7 A. 8 represented the directors of the Cypriote entities that were 9 assigned to the companies that anybody set up. What was Inter Jura? An Inter Jura was a subsidiary company of Dr. K's that 10 Q. You testified that Mr. Manafort's name was not on the 11 entity in corporation documents but that it was on some of the 12 Cypriote bank accounts. 13 name be removed from those? 14 A. He did. 15 Q. Do you know why? 16 A. Yes. 17 a lawsuit with somebody from the Ukraine and there was concern 18 that the individual might be able to find some of the 19 information on Mr. Manafort and, specifically, who some of the 20 other Ukrainian businessmen that paid some of those contracts 21 might be. 22 Q. Did you -- was his name removed? 23 A. It was. 24 Q. And did you ask to have your name removed? 25 A. No, not in all cases. At some point did he ask that his Mr. Manafort described to me that he was engaged in Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 246 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1225 1 Q. At some point did you have your name removed? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Why did you want your name removed from the accounts? 4 A. Well, at that time the number of accounts in Ukraine had 5 diminished in 2012 because of the banking collapse. 6 kind of a good time to make sure that most of the entities 7 were closed and our names were removed. 8 Q. 9 the overseas accounts moved to another country? Okay. So it was And when there was a banking issue in Cyprus, were 10 A. They were. 11 Q. Where? 12 A. They were moved to the Grenadines. 13 Q. Is that the same country referred to as St. Vincent in 14 the Grenadines? 15 A. It is, yes. 16 Q. Do you know where that is? 17 A. Somewhere in the Caribbean. 18 Q. Okay. 19 Cypriote accounts to St. Vincent in the Grenadines? 20 A. Dr. K. 21 Q. How was he able to do that? 22 A. They have a relationship, apparently, between Cyprus and 23 the Grenadines, and so he was able to both open the entities, 24 which were actually designated in Cyprus, and then the actual 25 bank accounts as well. And who -- who facilitated the movement of the Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 247 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1226 1 Q. And was the money moved to -- from the Cyprus accounts to 2 St. Vincent in the Grenadines? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Okay. 5 know the names of those accounts? 6 A. 7 accounts, as I recall. 8 Q. What were the names? 9 A. Global Endeavor and Jeunet. 10 Q. Do you know what bank or banks they were opened at? 11 A. The name of the bank was Loyal Bank. 12 Q. And whose name was the -- the St. Vincent in Grenadines 13 accounts opened in? 14 A. 15 point of contact for those. 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. He is not. 18 Q. Were you able to move money from the Cypriote accounts 19 when they were in Cyprus? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. And what was the process for moving money from the Cyprus 22 accounts to the United States or elsewhere? 23 A. 24 The typical practice was that Mr. Manafort would send me a 25 list of wire requests or he would send the wires directly to a Yes. And when the accounts were opened there, do you It was a very limited number. There were only two At that time I believe we designated Mr. Kilimnik as the Is Mr. Kilimnik -- is he a U.S. citizen? So, generally, it was all done again by the law firm. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 248 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1227 1 point of contact that we had at Dr. K's firm. 2 then coordinated with the bank to make the wire distributions. 3 Q. 4 contacted at Dr. K's law firm? 5 A. I know the primary person that we used, yes. 6 Q. Who was that? 7 A. Her name was Christina. 8 Q. And would you receive directions from Mr. Manafort about 9 how to move money between the different accounts? Okay. That contact And do you know who the people were that you 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Would you receive instruction from Mr. Manafort about 12 directing payments from Cyprus to vendors in the United 13 States? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. How would that happen? 16 A. Mr. Manafort would prepare an e-mail. 17 template that the law firm had given him to use. 18 minimal information at that time. 19 in the name of the vendors that he wanted paid, the amount, 20 and then he would send that either again directly to the bank 21 in some cases or he would send it to me to send over to the 22 bank. 23 Q. It was very And Mr. Manafort would put Can I ask you to take a look at Government Exhibit 370? 24 25 There was a Have you had a chance to review that? A. Yes. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 249 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1228 1 Q. Government Exhibit 370, is that an e-mail chain involving 2 you and Mr. Manafort? 3 A. It is. 4 Q. And does it involve the transfer of funds from Cypriote 5 accounts? 6 A. It does. 7 8 MR. ANDRES: The Government moves to admit Government Exhibit 370, Your Honor. 9 MR. DOWNING: 10 THE COURT: No objection. Admitted. 11 (Government's Exhibit No. 370 12 admitted into evidence.) 13 MR. ANDRES: 14 THE COURT: May I publish it? Yes. 15 BY MR. ANDRES: 16 Q. 17 who the e-mail is to and from? 18 A. It's from Mr. Manafort to me. 19 Q. Okay. 20 A. The date is November 29, 2011. 21 Q. And what's the subject? 22 A. Subject is "Payments." 23 Q. Okay. 24 describe to the jury what's -- what you're communicating to 25 Mr. Manafort there? Starting with the top e-mail, Mr. Gates, can you tell me And what's the date? Can you start at the bottom e-mail at 22:38:24 and Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 250 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1229 1 A. Yes. 2 (As read): I write, "Mr. Manafort, for your review 3 and approval. Let me know if you have any questions. And 4 then I will transfer the money from the Leviathan account to 5 DMP International unless you direct otherwise." 6 Q. It says, "Levi," L-e-v-i. 7 A. Levi is the abbreviation for Leviathan. 8 Q. Okay. 9 payment? What's that a reference to? And did Mr. Manafort explicitly approve that 10 A. He did. 11 Q. What did he say? 12 A. "Yes, this is approved." 13 Q. Okay. 14 transferring money to P for the loan earlier this month. 15 And then there's a reference in the e-mail to What's the P reference? 16 A. Yes. So the reference to that is at some point we moved 17 money from Peranova to Leviathan and we were returning the 18 money, because, again, even within Mr. Manafort's Cyprus 19 entities, you could move money from one entity to the other, 20 but at the end of the day, it was going to be part of the 21 audit. 22 that we could account where it came from. 23 Q. 24 you and Mr. Manafort with respect to the Cypriote accounts? 25 A. So it was just an exercise of moving the money back so Okay. Yes. Is this e-mail typical of communications between There were hundreds of these. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 251 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1230 1 Q. During the course of the time that you worked for 2 Mr. Manafort, do you know if he had any bill keepers? 3 A. He did. 4 Q. What bill keepers were you aware of? 5 A. Initially, I was aware that he had been using KWC to do 6 the bills, but that he wanted to make a change. 7 a gentlemen by the name of Hesham Ali, who at that time was 8 working with Heather Washkuhn; and then later on, Heather 9 Washkuhn directly took over the bill keeping. Okay. He had hired 10 Q. 11 Heather Washkuhn, can you characterize what your relationship 12 was with the bill payers? 13 A. 14 you know, various directions and instructions from 15 Mr. Manafort. 16 would reach out to me that they had received a request from 17 Paul and wanted some assistance in -- in fulfilling that 18 request. 19 Q. 20 bookkeepers to authorize payments? 21 A. I did. 22 Q. Okay. 23 A. I did. 24 Q. At whose direction? 25 A. Mr. Manafort's. Yes. In terms of your interaction with Hesham Ali or I would communicate frequently with them based on, There were a number of instances where they Did you have the ability when you were dealing with the And did you? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 252 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1231 1 Q. 2 accounts or for his personal accounts? 3 A. Business accounts. 4 Q. Okay. 5 a process in place where the banks had to confirm payment? 6 A. 7 confirmation from any type of money that Mr. Manafort was 8 moving between his accounts. 9 Heather would put the list of bills together. 10 And did those payments relate to Mr. Manafort's business Yes. And once you authorized those payments, was there The banks, actually in this case, required a verbal So the typical process is that I would add the DMP bills. And then once the total 11 amount of that wire was calculated, Mr. Manafort would do a 12 verbal approval with his bank. 13 Q. 14 electronic signature for Mr. Manafort? 15 A. I did. 16 Q. What's an electronic signature? 17 A. An electronic signature is Mr. Manafort's signature that 18 can be used on PDF documents. 19 Q. And did you use it on PDF documents? 20 A. I did on occasions, yes. 21 Q. What types of documents would you use it on? 22 A. Primarily documents that Mr. Manafort had asked me to 23 sign on his behalf. 24 something into a particular entity or organization, he would 25 often ask me to create the document, sign it on his behalf, During this time period, did you have access to an If he was traveling or needed to get Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 253 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1232 1 and then send it to him. 2 Q. Can I ask you to look at Government Exhibit 427? 3 Can you tell me what that is? 4 A. Yes. 5 to me. It's an e-mail from -- originally from Mr. Manafort 6 MR. ANDRES: Okay. Your Honor, the Government moves 7 to admit Government Exhibit 427. 8 MR. DOWNING: 9 THE COURT: No objection. Admitted. 10 (Government's Exhibit No. 427 11 admitted into evidence.) 12 BY MR. ANDRES: 13 Q. 14 e-mail, can you tell me who the e-mail is chain is between and 15 the date? 16 A. 17 date is February 17, 2016. With respect to the e-mail, can you -- looking at the top Yes. The top e-mail is from me to Mr. Manafort. 18 MR. ANDRES: 19 THE COURT: The May I publish it, Your Honor? Yes. 20 BY MR. ANDRES: 21 Q. 22 read that e-mail? 23 A. "I need you to sign my name to another doc and return to 24 me. I will be sending in 5 to 20 minutes. 25 turnaround." Focusing on the bottom e-mail where it says "R," can you It's on a quick Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 254 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1233 1 Q. And who is that from? 2 A. Mr. Manafort. 3 Q. And what did you understand Mr. Manafort to ask you to be 4 doing? 5 A. 6 to it. 7 Q. 8 that document was? 9 A. I do not. 10 Q. Okay. 11 A. I did. 12 Q. And was it common for you to do that? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And would you always seek Mr. Manafort's approval? 15 A. Yes. 16 document, but there were occasions where I reached out to him 17 on documents as well. 18 Q. 19 paying bills for Mr. Manafort. To take the document and attach his electronic signature Did -- as you sit here today, do you have any idea what And did you -- did you agree to sign it? Usually he reached out to me in order to sign the You testified earlier that Ms. Washkuhn was involved in 20 Did you play a role in paying Mr. Manafort's bills? 21 A. There were instances where I would pay some of the bills 22 from the DMP U.S. account. 23 to that account. 24 Q. How about from the overseas accounts? 25 A. Yes. Ms. Washkuhn and I both had access Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 255 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1234 1 Q. Would you frequently make payments for Mr. Manafort from 2 the Cypriote accounts? 3 A. Probably more frequently from the Cypriote accounts, yes. 4 Q. Okay. 5 Ms. Washkuhn? 6 A. I did not. 7 Q. Why not? 8 A. Mr. Manafort had basically requested that we not need to 9 inform Ms. Washkuhn on those payments. And when you made those payments, did you alert 10 Q. And when you paid those bills, do you know the types of 11 bills they were; that is, who were you paying from the 12 Cypriote accounts? 13 A. 14 would prepare wiring instructions. 15 document or an e-mail that he provided. 16 necessarily know what the payment was for, but over time I 17 learned who some of the vendors were. 18 Q. 19 bills directly himself? 20 A. He did. 21 Q. How did you know that? 22 A. Because in some instances when he had asked me to check 23 on the balances of the account, money had been wired out and 24 they were reflected wire transfers that he had requested in 25 addition. I just knew them by name because, again, Mr. Manafort So it would all be in a So I wouldn't And do you know if Mr. Manafort also paid some of those Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 256 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1235 1 Q. And what accounts did he use to make those payments? 2 A. Cyprus accounts. 3 U.S. accounts as well. 4 Q. 5 individual named "Steve Jacobson" and the business name 6 "SP&C"? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. What is that? 9 A. That was one of the Mr. Manafort's contractors that I had And obviously he made requests for the Are you familiar with an individual in a business -- an 10 come to learn about in the process of doing some wires for 11 Mr. Manafort. 12 Q. Okay. 13 A. I believe it came from a combination of offshore and U.S. 14 accounts. 15 Q. 16 Mr. Manafort? 17 A. 18 and Bridgehampton home. 19 Q. 20 Bridgehampton? 21 A. I have not. 22 Q. Are you familiar with a individual named "Joel Maxwell"? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Who is that? 25 A. Joel Maxwell provided audio and visual technical support And where did that money come from? And do you know what work Mr. Jacobson did for I believe it was work related to his New York apartment Have you ever been to Mr. Manafort's home in Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 257 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1236 1 for Mr. Manafort. 2 Q. Okay. 3 A. I believe he was, yes. 4 Q. Have you ever sought services or has Mr. Maxwell done any 5 services at any -- at your residence? 6 A. He has not. 7 Q. So you're familiar with an entity named "Alan Couture"? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. What is Alan Couture? 10 A. It's a clothing store that Mr. Manafort had directed me 11 and Ms. Washkuhn to make payments over the year. 12 Q. 13 money come from? 14 A. 15 the U.S. accounts. 16 Q. 17 they're in? 18 A. 19 business. 20 Q. Have you ever purchased any clothing from Alan Couture? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Are you familiar with an entity known as "New Leaf 23 Landscaping"? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Did you make payments to New Leaf Landscaping? And was he paid from the overseas accounts? When you made payments to Alan Couture, where did the It was a combination both from the offshore accounts and And do you know what Alan Couture -- what business I learned over time that they were in the clothing Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 258 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1237 1 A. Yes, I did at Mr. Manafort's request. 2 Q. For what services? 3 A. I believe that was landscaping services for his home in 4 Bridgehampton. 5 Q. 6 Leaf Landscaping? 7 A. No. 8 Q. When you made payments to New Leaf Landscaping, where 9 would the money come from? Have you ever contracted or gotten any services from New 10 A. I believe, again, it was a combination of the Cyprus 11 accounts and the U.S. accounts. 12 Q. And would you report those to Ms. Washkuhn? 13 A. The U.S. payments were reported to Ms. Washkuhn. 14 ones from overseas were not. 15 Q. 16 Bijan? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. What is that? 19 A. I believe, again, that was another clothier. 20 Q. And who did -- was Mr. Manafort a customer of House of 21 Bijan? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Did you make payments to that entity? 24 A. I did. 25 Q. And where did that money come from? The Are you familiar with an entity known as the House of Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 259 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1238 1 A. Again, I believe that was a combination of offshore and 2 U.S. accounts. 3 Q. 4 Bijan? 5 A. No. 6 Q. Okay. 7 wiring money directly from Cyprus to the vendors. Have you ever ordered any clothes from the House of 8 9 You testified that both you and Mr. Manafort were Do you know what benefit if any -- how that benefitted Mr. Manafort? 10 A. Well, in not reporting the wires that were done, they 11 were not disclosed on Mr. Manafort's U.S. business records. 12 Therefore, it was, in essence, diminishing the amount of 13 income that should have been reported on the tax return. 14 Q. 15 Cyprus to St. Vincent's and the Grenadines; is that correct? 16 A. That's correct. 17 Q. The process for moving money from St. Vincent and the 18 Grenadines, was it different than the process you used in 19 Cyprus? 20 A. It was. 21 Q. How? 22 A. The process in the Grenadines was a little more document 23 complex, because it was a different bank. 24 time there were banking issues that had transpired over from 25 Europe into kind of the Caribbean area. You testified that at some point the accounts moved from And, again, at that So they requested Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 260 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1239 1 much more documentation as evidence to initiate that wire 2 transfer. 3 Q. 4 Grenadines that you made, were they on behalf of Mr. Manafort? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And did you also make payments to yourself from those 7 accounts? 8 A. I did. 9 Q. And those were the unauthorized payments? 10 A. Some were; some were not. 11 Q. You testified that there was additional documentation 12 required for moving money from the St. Vincent's and the 13 Grenadines? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Did you create some of those documents? 16 A. I did. 17 Q. Okay. 18 of creating documents and why you did it? 19 A. 20 send me a list of wire transfers. 21 the transfers from the Grenadines, because they required 22 additional documentation, I had asked Mr. Manafort for a 23 copies of the invoices. 24 25 And the payments from the St. Vincent's and the Can you explain to the jury what you did in terms So Mr. Manafort had sent -- you know, would typically But when we started making In most occasions he didn't have the original invoices, so we used a template that basically was for the Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 261 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1240 1 legitimate payment of that invoice. 2 addressed to Mr. Manafort, it needed to be addressed to the 3 company that the payment was actually coming from. 4 edited the template and put the name of the company as opposed 5 to Mr. Manafort's name. 6 Q. 7 and the Grenadines, what were the companies there that were 8 opened? 9 A. So I And because those payments were coming from St. Vincent's The two companies, they were basically registered in 10 Cyprus but they were offshore. 11 Q. And what were their names? 12 A. Global Endeavour and Jeunet. 13 Q. Okay. 14 Exhibit 67A. 15 16 But instead of being Can I ask you to take a look at Government MR. ANDRES: These are already in evidence, Your Honor. 17 THE COURT: 18 MR. ANDRES: 19 THE COURT: All right. May I publish them? Yes. 20 BY MR. ANDRES: 21 Q. 22 document, Mr. Gates? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Okay. 25 A. This is an invoice for amount -- a wire amount that Can I ask you to turn to page 2. Do you recognize this What is it? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 262 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1241 1 Mr. Manafort had sent to me. And this is the invoice that 2 went to the actual Grenadines entity where the payment came 3 from. 4 Q. Who created this invoice? 5 A. I did. 6 Q. And based on what information? 7 A. Information that Mr. Manafort had given to me about the 8 wire transfer. 9 Q. Is it fair to say that this is a fake invoice? 10 A. It's a -- yes, it's a modified invoice. 11 Q. Okay. 12 A. Correct. 13 Q. And how about the payment that's being made, what -- what 14 is -- how would you characterize the payment? 15 A. 16 here was to -- instead of having it billed to -- with the name 17 of Mr. Manafort, because the payment was coming from this 18 company at Mr. Manafort's request, it had to have the name of 19 the company itself. 20 Q. And so where it says "billed to," who's listed? 21 A. Global Endeavour. 22 Q. And having reviewed this now, you realize that there are 23 typographical errors or other errors on these documents? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Okay. It's fake in terms of the document itself? The payment was legitimate. I mean, again, the effort And where it says "Alan Couture," who -- who added Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 263 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1242 1 that information? 2 A. 3 sent me in the wire request. 4 Q. 5 to that -- I'm sorry -- with respect to that second document, 6 what's the total amount of the payment that was made as a 7 result of the invoice that you sent? 8 A. In this one the amount is 42,000. 9 Q. And that's a payment to who? 10 A. Alan Couture. 11 Q. And was there a wire initiated as a result of you 12 submitting this document? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Okay. 15 Government exhibit, ending in the Bates No. 552? 16 Can you explain what this document is? I took it off of the information that Mr. Manafort had Okay. Yes. Can I ask you to take a look -- and with respect Can I ask you to turn to, in the same exhibit, 17 A. Again, this is an invoice that Mr. Manafort had 18 requested a payment for. 19 Global Endeavour to initiate the wire transfer. 20 Q. And what's Big Picture Solutions? 21 A. I believe that was Mr. Maxwell's company, the audio and 22 visual technician. 23 Q. Okay. 24 A. I did. 25 Q. There's a stamp on the top right-hand side of the I put in the name of the company And you created this document? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 264 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1243 1 invoice. What's that? 2 A. That's from the bank. 3 Q. Okay. 4 it be one for -- one from an invoice from one of these vendors 5 or did you aggregate them from time to time? 6 A. I don't recall. 7 Q. Okay. 8 A. Well, these are based on wire transactions that 9 Mr. Manafort had requested, so I was using the information he Now, when you were creating these invoices, would I believe it was one to one. And who were you relying on for that information? 10 provided. 11 Q. And at the time, he didn't have the invoices? 12 A. No. 13 Q. So he provided you a total amount to make a payment? 14 A. Well, yeah. 15 much needed to be paid and who it needed to be paid to. 16 He would send it in the description of how I do believe on some occasions there were invoices 17 that he did provide, but, again, it didn't matter because the 18 invoice to him was in his name and the invoice for the payment 19 needed to be in the company's name. 20 Q. 21 Picture Solutions invoice that you -- that you created, where 22 it says "Description of services," where did that information 23 come from? 24 A. 25 either filled in the template or maybe I modified it on some Okay. If you look down a little further in the Big That was usually just generic language that was already Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 265 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1244 1 occasions. 2 Q. 3 Solutions were on behalf of who? 4 A. Mr. Manafort. 5 Q. And they were for services that were rendered? 6 A. Yes, to my understanding. 7 Q. Okay. 8 go to the vendors? 9 A. No. 10 Q. Who did they go to? 11 A. They went to the bank. 12 Q. Can you look at Government Exhibit -- at the page 636 in 13 the same exhibit? 14 A. 15 Landscape. 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. It is. 18 Q. Same process? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Okay. 21 A. Again, because Mr. Manafort wanted a wire transfer 22 initiated for this company. 23 Q. 24 the exhibit that ends in 452. 25 Okay. And, again, the payments for Mr. -- to Big Picture And did these invoices themselves -- did they ever What is that? Again, this is another invoice for work done by New Leaf And this is also an invoice that you created? And why did you create this invoice? And then, lastly, if you could turn to the last page in Can you tell me what that is? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 266 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1245 1 A. Again, finally, this is another invoice. 2 SP&C. 3 Q. Same process? 4 A. Same process. 5 Q. You created this invoice? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And it was to initiate a payment? 8 A. It was. 9 Q. Mr. Gates, let me direct your attention to July of 2014. 10 This time to Were you interviewed by the FBI at that time? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Okay. 13 A. I was. 14 Q. At the time of the interview, did you understand why you 15 were being interviewed? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Why? 18 A. We were asked to -- in the words of my attorney, to 19 voluntary help in regards to a forfeiture investigation the 20 Ukrainian Government was working on in conjunction with the 21 FBI. 22 Q. 23 else also interviewed? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Who? Okay. Were you represented by counsel? And at the time when you said "we," was somebody Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 267 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1246 1 A. Mr. Manafort. 2 Q. At the time did you understand whether you, yourself, was 3 under -- were under investigation? 4 A. It was my understanding I was not. 5 Q. And did you understand whether Mr. Manafort was under 6 investigation? 7 A. It was my understanding he was not. 8 Q. And how did you learn that Mr. Manafort was also being 9 interviewed? 10 A. He told me. 11 Q. Who was interviewed first? 12 A. I was interviewed first. 13 Q. During the interview were you asked questions about your 14 work in the Ukraine? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And were you asked questions about certain overseas 17 accounts? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. At the time of that interview, what was the status of the 20 Cypriote accounts? 21 A. 22 the time of the interview. 23 Q. 24 interviewed first, you or Mr. Manafort? 25 A. The majority of the Cypriote accounts had been closed at And in terms of the order of the interviews, who was I was interviewed first. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 268 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1247 1 Q. At some point, prior to Mr. Manafort's interview, did he 2 direct you to take certain action? 3 A. He did. 4 Q. What did he ask you to do? 5 A. He asked me to travel to meet with one of the Ukrainian 6 businessmen to, one, notify him that we were going to be 7 interviewing with the FBI, and then to also determine the 8 status of the Ukrainian businessman's company because a lot of 9 the money came from the one particular company and we didn't 10 really have a lot of background on that company and wanted to 11 learn more. 12 Q. 13 to see? 14 A. Mr. Lovochkin. 15 Q. And where did you go see him? 16 A. In France. 17 Q. And did he agree -- did he answer your questions? 18 A. He did. 19 Q. Okay. 20 were you also aware of any negotiations with Mr. Lovochkin 21 about the payments that he was making to Mr. Manafort? 22 A. 23 move all of his banking directly to one particular 24 institution. 25 contract payments for the Ukraine political work also sent to Okay. And who is the Ukrainian businessmen that you went Did -- at some point around this time, did you -- Well, Mr. Manafort, in another exercise, was trying to So he was trying to have the payments -- the Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 269 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1248 1 that bank as well. 2 Q. And did Mr. Lovochkin agree to this arrangement? 3 A. He did. 4 Q. At that point, there was no longer a requirement to have 5 Cypriote or overseas accounts? 6 A. At that time, no. 7 Q. Excuse me? 8 A. Yeah, at that time, no. 9 Q. Mr. Gates, at some point during the course of the time 10 that you worked for Mr. Manafort, did you assist him in the 11 preparation of his tax returns? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Over what time period? 14 A. I think my involvement specifically increased from 2010 15 forward. 16 Q. 17 Mr. Manafort's tax preparers? 18 A. I did. 19 Q. Who did you understand them to be? 20 A. At the time, it was Mr. Ayliff at KWC, who he later 21 brought on Ms. Cindy Laporta, and then there was some support 22 staff that worked with us as well. 23 Q. How about Naji Lakkis? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Who is he? And during that time period, did you work with Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 270 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1249 1 A. Mr. Lakkis was primarily Mr. Ayliff's assistant that 2 worked on the tax efforts in the early years. 3 Q. 4 the taxes, was there a process in place together with KWC with 5 respect to the preparation of Mr. Manafort's taxes? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Can you explain what that was? 8 A. In the -- in the early years, the process started that 9 Mr. Manafort had asked me to sit in some of the meetings with And during the time starting in 2009 that you helped with 10 his accountants because the business entities were something 11 that I was involved in and followed. 12 with gathering a lot of the questions and answers that the 13 bookkeepers and the tax accountants had in regards to 14 Mr. Manafort's taxes. 15 Over time, I was tasked So the process would be that they -- the bookkeeper 16 would send the balance sheet and ledger to the accountants. 17 The accountants would review that and then they would prepare 18 a series of questions. 19 stages, e-mailed to both of us. 20 just to me. 21 and then I would typically either speak or meet with 22 Mr. Manafort and ask him for the remaining answers. 23 answers were compiled and then returned to the accountants. Those questions were, in the initial Later on, they were e-mailed I would answer the questions that I could answer 24 THE COURT: All right. 25 our morning break, Mr. Andres? The Is this a good time to take Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 271 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1250 1 MR. ANDRES: 2 THE COURT: Yes, Your Honor. All right. Mr. Gates, you may step 3 down, sir. During the recess, which will be until about 4 11:20, you may not discuss your testimony with anyone. 5 THE WITNESS: 6 THE COURT: 7 the right. 8 security as usual. 9 Okay. Ladies and gentlemen, pass your books to Mr. Flood will collect them, maintain their During the recess, remember to refrain from 10 discussing the matter with anyone or undertaking any 11 investigation on your own and we will reconvene at 11:20. 12 may follow Mr. Flood out. You 13 (Jury dismissed.) 14 THE COURT: 15 Mr. Andres, what's your estimate now of what remains All right. 16 in Mr. Gates' direct testimony? 17 MR. ANDRES: 18 THE COURT: 19 You may be seated. I'd say two hours, Judge. All right. See if you can compress it. I mean, this morning when I asked you, you said three hours. 20 MR. ANDRES: 21 THE COURT: Now you've been at it for almost two MR. ANDRES: I understand my math doesn't add up 22 I -- hours. 23 24 entirely, Judge, but I will do everything I can to expedite 25 it. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 272 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1251 1 THE COURT: 2 (Recess.) 3 THE COURT: 4 Thank you. Court stands in recess. All right. We're prepared to proceed. You may be seated. Bring the jury in. 5 (Jury in.) 6 THE COURT: All right. 7 All right. And let's have Mr. Gates return, please. 8 Mr. Gates, you'll recall that you're still under 9 oath, sir, and you may resume the stand. 10 THE WITNESS: 11 THE COURT: 12 MR. ANDRES: Thank you. All right. Mr. Andres, you may proceed. Thank you, Your Honor. 13 BY MR. ANDRES: 14 Q. 15 respect to Mr. Manafort's tax returns. Mr. Gates, you were testifying about your role with 16 What role specifically did you play in interacting 17 with the tax preparers? 18 A. 19 questions that they submitted based on a balance sheet and 20 ledger that they put together based on what the -- the work 21 that Ms. Washkuhn did. 22 Q. 23 tax preparers? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Cindy Laporta? Again, I worked with the tax preparers on answering Were there times that you interacted directly with the Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 273 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1252 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Philip Ayliff? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. How about Mr. Manafort? 5 interactions with his tax preparers? 6 A. 7 me in regards to requests that he wanted me to seek from the 8 accountants. 9 Q. What did you know about his I knew he interacted with them. He also reached out to And with respect to your involvement, did you attend 10 meetings with Mr. Manafort and his tax preparers? 11 A. I did. 12 Q. Do you know what his relationship with Mr. Ayliff was? 13 A. It was very longstanding. 14 got there, but they seemed to have a longstanding 15 relationship. 16 Q. 17 with Mr. Manafort, that he understood the details of his tax 18 returns? 19 A. Yes, it was my belief he did. 20 Q. Did you make efforts to reduce the amount of income that 21 was reported on the tax returns? 22 A. We did. 23 Q. Okay. 24 A. I would say specifically the idea of exchanging income 25 for loans and putting those on the books enabled Mr. Manafort It was preexisting before I Did you have an understanding, based on your discussions What specifically did you do? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 274 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1253 1 to reduce his overall tax liability. 2 Q. Okay. 3 A. It did. 4 Q. How about the Telmar loan? 5 A. It did. 6 Q. Okay. 7 Cyprus to vendors or other locations, was that ever disclosed 8 to the tax preparers? 9 A. It was not. 10 Q. Did you have a discussion with Mr. Manafort about whether 11 those accounts should be disclosed? 12 A. 13 It was never an overt, you know, don't disclose the accounts, 14 but there were issues with the accounts, specifically such as 15 having signature authority, which because the Cyprus law firm 16 had the signature authority on the accounts, Mr. Manafort 17 would tend to use that as the reason for not informing the 18 accountants or the bookkeepers of those accounts. 19 Q. 20 Cyprus and St. Vincent and the Grenadines were opened, at any 21 time during that period, did Mr. Manafort not have control of 22 those accounts? 23 A. No, he always had control. 24 Q. And whose money was in those accounts? 25 A. Mr. Manafort's. Yes. And did that relate to the Peranova loan? And with respect to the income that was sent from Over the years, we had various discussions on them. And at any point during the time that those accounts in Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 275 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1254 1 Q. You testified yesterday that from time to time, either 2 you or Mr. Manafort would circulate an agenda for meetings 3 that you would attend? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Or phone calls? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Can you explain what those agendas were and what the 8 purpose was? 9 A. Sure. The agendas were a way for Mr. Manafort to catch 10 up or for me to provide updates on a variety of issues related 11 to work in Ukraine, work in the U.S. 12 the tax preparation, gathering material for various 13 investments that Mr. Manafort had. 14 issues. 15 Q. Can I ask you to look at Government Exhibit 372? 16 A. Okay. 17 Q. Can you tell me what that is? 18 A. In this instance, it's an agenda that was prepared by 19 Mr. Manafort and outlines a number of the issues that we were 20 talking about at that particular time. 21 MR. ANDRES: It could be related to It was a wide range of The Government moves to admit 22 Government Exhibit 372 -- oh, I'm sorry, Your Honor, it's in 23 evidence. May I publish it? 24 THE COURT: 25 MR. ANDRES: Yes. Excuse me, Your Honor. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 276 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1255 1 BY MR. ANDRES: 2 Q. Mr. Gates, can you zoom in on the top half, please? 3 Just read the heading of the document. 4 A. Gates agenda, March 21, 2013. 5 Q. Did you draft this or Mr. Manafort? 6 A. Mr. Manafort did. 7 Q. Okay. 8 red typing. 9 A. Yes. And there is black writing and -- or typing and Do you know what the distinction is? So typically, Mr. Manafort would take notes during 10 our calls and outline, in this case, once we had a discussion 11 about an issue, identifying an action item related to that 12 issue and who would carry it out and what the action item was. 13 Q. 14 or a communication with Mr. Manafort on or around March 21, 15 2013? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Okay. 18 what's -- who's Ayliff? 19 A. Mr. Ayliff is in reference to Philip Ayliff at KWC. 20 Q. And there's a reference to k1's Global and L DONE. 21 is that? 22 A. That's in reference to businesses that Mr. Manafort had. 23 Q. And then if you look at Number 2, it says, "do payment." 24 Any idea what that is? 25 A. And does this agenda reflect a meeting on or -- a meeting If you look at the first category under Ayliff, What I don't recall what that might be. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 277 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1256 1 Q. What about 3, "tax plan for April 15 done"? 2 A. Yes, that's in reference to the tax preparation for that 3 tax year. 4 Q. And Number 4, "Taxes - Assets Allocations"? 5 A. Yes. 6 that specific reference is for, but related to the tax 7 preparation. 8 Q. 9 Mr. Manafort's taxes with him? I don't know if this is -- well, I don't know what During the March 21, 2013 meeting, were you discussing 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Was that routine for you to do? 12 A. It was. 13 Q. If you look at the second section under KC, who's -- who 14 is KC? 15 A. KC is Kypros Chrysostomides. 16 Q. Is that the individual we've referred to as "Dr. K"? 17 A. Dr. K, it is. 18 Q. And if you look at Number 2, it says, "update on 19 movements." 20 A. 21 Cyprus, so moving money in and out is difficult. 22 Mr. Manafort wanted an update on what we were doing in order 23 to facilitate faster transfers. 24 Q. 25 Mr. Manafort discussing this overseas bank accounts? Sure. What's that a reference to? At this time, there are still liquidity issues in So At the meeting on March 21, 2013, were you and Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 278 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1257 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Okay. 3 Yanks. 4 A. 5 Mr. Manafort possessed. 6 Q. Was Mr. Manafort a season ticket holder? 7 A. He is. 8 Q. With respect to the New York Yankees? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Okay. 11 New York Yankees? 12 A. No. 13 Q. Have you attended Yankee games using Mr. Manafort's 14 tickets? 15 A. I have. 16 Q. If you look on the next page, there's a reference to 17 Ukraine. 18 reference to the Gusenbauer trip. 19 A. 20 member of the project Hapsburg. 21 former chancellor of Austria. 22 Q. 23 reviewed this document, is it fair to say that in March 21, 24 2013, you're discussing issues relating to Ukraine with 25 Mr. Manafort? If you look at the bottom, there's a reference to What's that in reference to? That would be in regards to the Yankees season tickets Have you ever been a season ticket holder for the And can you tell me, for example, there's a What's that? Yes, that's in reference to Alfred Gusenbauer who was a Mr. Gusenbauer used to be the I'm not going to go through anymore of this. But having Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 279 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1258 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Okay. 3 Exhibit 373? 4 Could I ask you to take a look at Government Can you tell me what that is, 373? 5 A. Yes, it's an e-mail between Mr. Manafort and myself. 6 Q. Okay. 7 A. Yes. 8 draft agenda, asking me to review it, and add items, which was 9 a typical process we used. And is this -- is -- are there attachments? In this case, Mr. Manafort is attaching a copy of a 10 Q. And that's reflected in the cover e-mail? 11 A. Yes. 12 13 MR. ANDRES: Your Honor, the Government moves to admit 373. 14 MR. DOWNING: 15 THE COURT: No objection. Admitted. 16 (Government's Exhibit No. 373 17 admitted into evidence.) 18 Q. At the bottom e-mail at 4:26 on December 13th, what does 19 Mr. Manafort say? 20 A. 21 outstanding items. 22 call. 23 8:00 a.m." 24 Q. And is there an e-mail -- is there an agenda attached? 25 A. There is. (As read): "I would like to review the range of I have attached my agenda notes for the I am moving around all day, so best time to reach me is Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 280 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1259 1 MR. ANDRES: 2 THE COURT: May I publish, Your Honor? Yes. 3 BY MR. ANDRES: 4 Q. 5 reference to a No. 3, "Wires to send." 6 What is that a reference to? If you look at the agenda for December 11th, there's a 7 A. These are typically where Mr. Manafort would either say 8 he had some wires he would send me or he's already sent me and 9 he's looking for updates on the status. 10 Q. Okay. No. 8 refers to 2014 taxes. 11 A. Yes. 12 something in preparation for the 2014 tax filing. 13 Q. That would be in reference to either looking at And No. 13 says, "Kyiv office - budget." 14 What is that a reference to? 15 A. That is the office budget that we had in Kyiv still at 16 this time, indicating how many employees, our rent at the 17 local office, and other items. 18 Q. Were these agendas typical? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. How often would you receive or send an agenda to 21 Mr. Manafort? 22 A. 23 week. 24 e-mails about catching up on certain items, but we typically 25 try to group items together, especially depending on travel Oh, I mean, it could be, you know, as many as a couple a Sometimes they weren't as formal. They were just Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 281 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1260 1 schedules. 2 Q. I would ask you to take a look at Government Exhibit 219. 3 Can you tell me what that is? 4 A. This is an e-mail from Conor O'Brien to myself, copying 5 Ms. Laporta and Mr. Ayliff. 6 Q. Who is Conor O'Brien? 7 A. Conor O'Brien works at KWC as well and works for 8 Ms. Laporta. 9 Q. And does this e-mail relate to issues that you're 10 discussing with Mr. Manafort's tax preparers? 11 A. It does. 12 Q. Is Mr. Manafort included on this e-mail? 13 A. He is not. 14 Q. Okay. The Government moves to admit 219. 15 MR. DOWNING: 16 THE COURT: Without objection. Admitted. 17 (Government's Exhibit No. 219 18 admitted into evidence.) 19 BY MR. ANDRES: 20 Q. Mr. Gates -- 21 MR. ANDRES: 22 THE COURT: May I publish, Your Honor? Yes. 23 BY MR. ANDRES: 24 Q. 25 the e-mail for the jury? Can you identify the -- who's on the e-mail and summarize Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 282 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1261 1 A. Yes. 2 Ms. Laporta -- I'm sorry -- copying Ms. Laporta and 3 Mr. Ayliff. 4 which Mr. Manafort believed his taxes were very high and we 5 needed to determine how we could lower the taxes, if at all 6 possible. 7 The e-mail is from Conor O'Brien to myself and And this is in regards to a 2014 tax issue in I was tasked by Mr. Manafort to go to Ms. Laporta 8 and ask her if there are ways in which we could do that, the 9 typical ways that we had been advised by KWC was, as always, 10 to convert income into loans and then also look at, you know, 11 other potential deductible expenses. 12 Q. 13 loans, for example, in Peranova, what was that money? 14 A. It was originally income. 15 Q. Okay. 16 Exhibit 375? When you -- in the instances when you converted income to 17 And can I ask you to take a look at Government Can you tell me what that is? 18 A. 19 Mr. Manafort regarding his taxes. 20 21 Yes. This is an e-mail exchange between me and MR. ANDRES: The Government moves to admit Government Exhibit 375. 22 MR. DOWNING: 23 THE COURT: No objection. Admitted. 24 (Government's Exhibit No. 375 25 admitted into evidence.) Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 283 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1262 1 BY MR. ANDRES: 2 Q. 3 can -- can you summarize that e-mail for the jury? 4 A. 5 the accountants, they had provided an outline of 6 Mr. Manafort's potential tax impact. 7 gathered the information that they had prepared, and then put 8 it in a report to Mr. Manafort. 9 Q. With respect to the bottom e-mail on April 15, 2005, Yes. Okay. So as is standard in our process of meeting with I met with them, And this is -- you're communicating those issues 10 to Mr. Manafort? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Again, you're discussing the tax returns with him? 13 A. I am. 14 Q. When he writes back at 4:20, what is his reaction? 15 A. He's not happy. 16 "I just saw this. 17 MR. ANDRES: 18 WTF." May I publish this, Your Honor? I'm sorry, excuse me. 19 THE COURT: 20 Had you finished? 21 THE WITNESS: 22 BY MR. ANDRES: 23 Q. 24 summarizing it? 25 A. Let him finish his answer first. I can continue reading, if you want. I just asked you to summarize it. Could you finish Yes. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 284 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1263 1 2 THE COURT: finished. All right. Did you say you've finished? 3 THE WITNESS: 4 THE COURT: 5 MR. ANDRES: 6 You may publish if he's I did, Your Honor, yes. All right. You may publish. Judge, to the extent I hadn't, I move to admit 375. 7 THE COURT: 8 MR. ANDRES: 9 THE COURT: I thought it was already admitted. Okay. Thank you, Judge. No objection, is there, Mr. Downing? 10 MR. DOWNING: 11 THE COURT: No objection. Admitted. 12 (Government's Exhibit No. 375 13 admitted into evidence.) 14 BY MR. ANDRES: 15 Q. 16 testified that he was upset. 17 A. 18 originally been projected for his potential tax impact for 19 that year were off by the accountants. 20 time that, one, I was learning about it and then when I 21 communicated the information, obviously first time he was 22 learning about it as well. 23 Q. 24 which you would discuss Mr. Manafort's taxes with him? 25 A. With respect to Mr. Manafort's reaction at 4:20, you Why was he upset? He was upset because a number of the items that had And this is the first And is it typical -- was this the typical process in Yes, in the latter years. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 285 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1264 1 Q. May I ask you to turn to Government's Exhibit 376? 2 Can you tell me what that is? 3 A. Yes. 4 Ms. Washkuhn. 5 Q. 6 from Telmar? 7 A. It does. 8 Q. Who is Telmar associated with? 9 A. Telmar is associated with Mr. Lovochkin. And does it relate to the -- to -- to an incoming wire 10 11 This is an e-mail exchange between myself and MR. ANDRES: The Government moves to admit Government Exhibit 376. 12 MR. DOWNING: 13 THE COURT: No objection. Admitted. 14 (Government's Exhibit No. 376 15 admitted into evidence.) 16 BY MR. ANDRES: 17 Q. 18 happening in your discussion with Ms. Washkuhn? 19 A. 20 notified that a wire payment is being made from the Ukrainian 21 businessmen, and at this point the wires are being sent 22 directly to the U.S., we would typically track the payment. 23 With respect to this document, can you explain what's Yes. As is typical the case when Mr. Manafort is So once the payment hits, Ms. Washkuhn had the role 24 of either recording it as income or loan based on, you know, 25 direction of Mr. Manafort. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 286 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1265 1 Q. Okay. And how is that -- how do you direct Ms. Washkuhn 2 to classify the Telmar payment? 3 A. In this case, we disclosed it as a loan. 4 Q. Okay. 5 A. It was not. 6 Q. During the time that you worked for Mr. Manafort and he 7 worked in the Ukraine, did Mr. Manafort ever receive a loan 8 from Serhiy Lovochkin? 9 A. Not to my knowledge. 10 Q. And the payments for Mr. Lovochkin to Mr. Manafort, what 11 were they? 12 A. It was income for political work. 13 Q. With respect -- when you identified the Telmar payment as 14 a loan for Ms. Washkuhn, was there an interest rate on that 15 loan? 16 A. No. 17 Q. Was there documentation? 18 A. There wasn't at this point, but it was asked for later, 19 yes. 20 Q. It was asked for because it didn't exist? 21 A. Correct. 22 Q. And did you create it? 23 A. Ultimately, for this one, yes, we did. 24 Q. You created a loan agreement for a loan that didn't 25 exist? And was it a loan? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 287 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1266 1 A. Correct. 2 Q. Why? 3 A. At Mr. Manafort's direction. 4 Q. Can you turn to Government Exhibit 160? 5 Can you tell me what that is? 6 A. Yes. 7 Ms. Laporta. 8 Q. Is there something attached? 9 A. There is. 10 11 This is an e-mail exchange between me and MR. ANDRES: The Government moves to admit Government Exhibit 160 -- oh, it's in evidence, Your Honor. 12 Thank you. May I publish it? 13 THE COURT: You may. 14 BY MR. ANDRES: 15 Q. 16 it's to, and what it relates to? 17 A. 18 And it's in reference to me sending her a copy of the loan 19 agreement between Telmar and DMP, which she requested. 20 Q. 21 at this time? 22 A. 23 was on the books, they were more insistent on having loan 24 documentation to support that particular transaction. 25 Q. Mr. Gates, can you explain who this e-mail is from, who Yes. It's to me -- excuse me -- to Ms. Laporta from me. And what discussions are happening with the tax preparers At this stage when the tax preparers saw that the loan Okay. And you drafted this document on behalf of Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 288 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1267 1 Mr. Manafort? 2 A. 3 attorneys and then I put in the relevant parties. 4 Q. 5 the loan agreement, when you compare those, what do you find? 6 A. 7 of March in 2014. 8 Q. And was that, in fact, the day it was executed? 9 A. The loan agreement? 10 Q. Yeah. 11 A. No, it was done at a later date. 12 Q. Backdated it? 13 A. Correct. 14 Q. Because there was no loan? 15 A. That is correct. 16 Q. Can I ask you to turn to Government Exhibit 220? Yeah. The document was provided by our Cypriote And in terms of the dates on the e-mail and the date of So the loan agreement was executed on the 6th day 17 Can you tell me what -- what's included in 18 Government Exhibit 220? 19 A. Yes. This is an e-mail regarding Mr. Manafort's taxes 20 for 2013. Mr. O'Brien is seeking the engagement letter and 21 they are also seeking payment and then have a number of 22 questions regarding Mr. Manafort's tax return. 23 24 25 MR. ANDRES: The Government moves to admit Government Exhibit 220. MR. DOWNING: No objection. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 289 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1268 1 THE COURT: Admitted. 2 (Government's Exhibit No. 220 3 admitted into evidence.) 4 BY MR. ANDRES: 5 Q. Can you tell us the date of this e-mail? 6 A. October 7, 2015. 7 Q. Okay. 8 that? 9 A. And you said it was from Conor O'Brien. I'm sorry, it's to Conor O'Brien from me. Who is Conor O'Brien 10 was Ms. Laporta's assistant at KWC. 11 Q. 12 the engagement letters to Mr. Manafort? 13 A. I did. 14 Q. Who signed those letters? 15 A. In some cases, Mr. Manafort did, depending on where he 16 was. 17 submit them to KWC. 18 Q. 19 about certain foreign-related reporting requirements? 20 A. I believe, yes, they do. 21 Q. Okay. 22 and interactions with the accountants about those 23 requirements? 24 A. Yes, we had. 25 Q. Can I ask you to turn to Government Exhibit 206? Okay. And was it -- did you from time to time pass on In other cases, he had requested me to sign them and Okay. And the engagement letters provide information At this time, had you previously had discussions Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 290 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1269 1 It's already in evidence, Your Honor. 2 THE COURT: All right. 3 BY MR. ANDRES: 4 Q. 5 that is? 6 A. 7 Mr. Ayliff, and it's in regards to Mr. Manafort's 2013 tax 8 return and asking for specific items, along with direction on 9 whether or not there's been a status change to any foreign Can you look at Government Exhibit 206 and tell me what Yes. This is an e-mail from Mr. Lakkis to me copying 10 accounts Mr. Manafort might have. 11 Q. 12 that? 13 A. And in the top e-mail, you write to Naji Lakkis. Who is Naji Lakkis worked for Mr. Ayliff at KWC. 14 MR. ANDRES: 15 THE COURT: 16 BY MR. ANDRES: 17 Q. May I publish this, Your Honor? You may. With respect to the top, can you focus on the top? 18 You indicate, to your knowledge, nothing has 19 changed. 20 A. 21 relayed to Mr. Lakkis that nothing has changed with respect to 22 reporting of foreign bank accounts. 23 Q. 24 accounts? 25 A. Yes. What do you mean by that? After having a discussion with Mr. Manafort, I On June 24, 2013, did Mr. Manafort have foreign bank He did. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 291 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1270 1 Q. Was this representation accurate -- not as to whether 2 something changed, but accurate as to whether or not there 3 were foreign bank accounts? 4 A. It is not accurate. 5 Q. Okay. 6 learned from the accountants about various FBAR requirements; 7 is that correct? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Can you look at the bottom e-mail on June 17, 2013? 10 And you previously testified that over time you Do you see that? 11 A. I do. 12 Q. You're having a discussion -- or an e-mail -- excuse 13 me -- with Mr. Lakkis. 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And who else is included on that e-mail? 16 A. Mr. Ayliff and Mr. O'Brien. 17 Q. And what's the title of the e-mail? 18 A. "Foreign account report due 6/30/13." 19 Q. And in sum and substance, what is Mr. Lakkis asking you 20 about in that bottom e-mail? 21 A. 22 foreign bank accounts and then attaches the IRS reg with it. 23 Q. 24 say? 25 A. Do you see that? He's summarizing the regulation with respect to reporting And then with respect to A, can you read A? What does it "They had a financial interest (see below for Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 292 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1271 1 explanation) in or signature authority (see below for 2 explanation) over accounts outside of the United States." 3 Q. And B? 4 A. "The aggregate value of all foreign financial accounts 5 exceeds 10,000 at any time during 2012." 6 Q. 7 interest signature authority over accounts outside of the 8 United States? 9 A. He did. 10 Q. The aggregate value of those accounts, did it exceed 11 10,000? 12 A. It did. 13 Q. It far exceeded $10,000; isn't that true? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. What was the amount of money in those accounts? 16 A. I can't recall, but I venture to guess it's several 17 million dollars. 18 Q. And as of June 2013, did Mr. Manafort have a financial With respect to -- 19 THE COURT: Guesses are not admissible. 20 THE WITNESS: 21 THE COURT: Understood. So that's stricken, but you may ask 22 other questions if you think you can establish a value. 23 guesses not admissible. 24 25 MR. ANDRES: But Understood, Your Honor. BY MR. ANDRES: Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 293 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1272 1 Q. With respect to 2012, did DMP International, 2 Mr. Manafort, have a contract with the Ukraine? 3 A. In 2012 it did. 4 Q. Did that include a policy contract? 5 A. Well, the policy contract had started earlier, but it was 6 continuing, yes. 7 Q. Were there payments from the policy contract in 2012? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. What was the total amount that was paid on the policy 10 contract in 2012? 11 A. It would have been $4 million. 12 Q. And where did that money go to? 13 A. It went to a Cyprus bank account in Mr. Manafort's 14 control. 15 Q. 16 accounts of at least $4 million? 17 A. He did. 18 Q. With respect to the document from Mr. Lakkis, it says, 19 "Last year we discussed the telecommunications company foreign 20 account as possible being reported." 21 So in 2012, did Mr. Manafort have money in his Cyprus What does that refer to? 22 A. This refers to one of the investments from our private 23 equity fund that Mr. Manafort had. 24 opportunity whereby Mr. Manafort wanted to exchange some of 25 the shares for loans that he had on his books over the years. And there was an Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 294 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1273 1 And we made this known to the accountants so that we could 2 figure out what type of tax impact it might have. 3 Q. 4 was there a discussion about foreign bank accounts? 5 A. There was. 6 Q. And were there regulations explained? 7 A. Yes, I believe they were. 8 Q. Okay. 9 Exhibit 2585. And in the course of that discussion about EVO Holdings, If you'd turn to the next page, Government 10 And if I could ask you to zoom in on the top. 11 What do you understand this to be? 12 A. Based on Mr. Lakkis' e-mail, this was the attachment of 13 the financial regulation regarding ownership of foreign bank 14 accounts. 15 Q. 16 discussions with Mr. Manafort about the disclosure of any 17 foreign bank accounts? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. And did you have a discussion with him and pass on the 20 information from Mr. Lakkis? 21 A. Yes, we did. 22 Q. Okay. 23 Exhibit 195. Okay. And during this time period, were you having I want to ask you to turn to Government 24 Can you tell me what that is? 25 MR. ANDRES: It's already in evidence, Your Honor. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 295 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1274 1 THE COURT: 2 THE WITNESS: 3 All right. Yes. This is an e-mail chain from Paul to me and then from me to Cindy. 4 MR. ANDRES: 5 THE COURT: May I publish it, Your Honor? You may. 6 BY MR. ANDRES: 7 Q. 8 can you explain what's happening and summarize this e-mail for 9 the jury? Starting with the bottom e-mail on September 15, 2015, 10 A. Yes. It appears that KWC had sent Mr. Manafort the tax 11 forms to sign. 12 to forward to KWC. 13 Q. 14 what year tax returns are these? 15 A. It's 2014. 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. And then you sent them on to KWC? 19 A. I did. 20 Q. Do you know why Mr. Manafort didn't just send them 21 directly? 22 A. 23 delegation point of view, send me documents to disburse among 24 other individuals. 25 Q. Okay. He signed the forms and then sent them to me So these tax returns with respect to the year -- It came from Mr. Manafort to you; is that right? I don't, but it wasn't unusual for him to just, from a And did you send those along to KWC? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 296 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1275 1 A. I did. 2 Q. Did you make any changes to them? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Mr. Gates, let me direct your attention to late 2015. 5 Where were you working in 2015? 6 A. At DMP International. 7 Q. Did DMP International have any active clients? 8 A. No. 9 Opposition BLOC party in Ukraine, but at that time no new We were attempting to secure a new contract with the 10 contracts. 11 Q. How about 2016? 12 A. I did. 13 Q. Up until when? 14 A. Approximately, March of 2016. 15 Q. And what did you do in March of 2016? 16 A. I went to work on -- for one of the presidential 17 campaigns. 18 Q. And who hired you for that presidential campaign? 19 A. Mr. Manafort. 20 Q. And was he also working on the presidential campaign at 21 the time? 22 A. He was. 23 Q. With respect to the income that DMP was earning prior to 24 that, was he -- was DMP earning any income in 2016? 25 A. Did you continue to work at DMP? Not to my knowledge. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 297 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1276 1 Q. How did you know? 2 A. Ms. Washkuhn would typically prepare monthly 3 reconciliation pages with respect to both Mr. Manafort's 4 business and personal accounts so we'll have a snapshot of the 5 amount due in bills and then Ms. Washkuhn would request 6 funding for those payments. 7 Q. 8 employed at DMP? 9 A. Two. 10 Q. Who were they? 11 A. Myself and Alex Trusko. 12 Q. And what was Mr. Kilimnik's status? 13 A. He was still working with Mr. Manafort, but, to my 14 knowledge, he was being paid locally from Ukraine. 15 Q. 16 2006 to 2016, was Mr. Kilimnik always associated with the firm 17 in some way? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. In 2016, do you -- if DMP wasn't making any money, do you 20 know how Mr. Manafort was paying your salary? 21 A. 22 paid by savings and investment accounts that Mr. Manafort had 23 at the time. 24 Q. How did you know that? 25 A. Based on information that Ms. Washkuhn had circulated. In late 2015 and early 2016, how many people were During the time that you worked for Mr. Manafort from Yes. The salary and the bills of the company were being Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 298 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1277 1 Q. During this time period, were you also -- did you have 2 other businesses that you were involved in? 3 A. I did. 4 Q. Were you involved in a company called Map Global 5 Holdings? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. What was the name of that company? 8 A. Map Global Holdings. 9 Q. And what did that involve? 10 A. It was PR and a movie production company. 11 Q. Okay. 12 A. I did. 13 Q. -- company? 14 A. I did. 15 Q. Steve Brown involved in that company? 16 A. He was. 17 Q. Okay. 18 backdating documents? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. How about ID Watchdog, what was that? 21 A. That was a company that I served as a board of directors 22 for. 23 Q. 24 Mr. Manafort having issues with his expenses? 25 A. And did you make any money from that -- And that's the instance where you were involved in During this time period in 2015 and 2016, was Yes. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 299 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1278 1 Q. What were the issues? 2 A. There were a number of vendors that had reached out to 3 both myself and Ms. Washkuhn, indicating that the bills had 4 not been paid and asking when payment might be received. 5 Q. 6 for bank loans? 7 A. He did. 8 Q. How did you know that? 9 A. He had requested a team of people to begin pulling During this time period, did Mr. Manafort begin applying 10 together an assortment of documents in order for him to apply 11 for the bank loans. 12 Q. Did he apply for one loan or more than one loan? 13 A. It was more than one loan. 14 Q. And what role did you play with respect to those loans? 15 A. It varied depending on the loan. 16 was the point person for collecting all of the documents from 17 the various individuals and then submitting those to the 18 members of the various banks that Mr. Manafort directed. 19 Q. 20 information to any of the banks where Mr. Manafort applied for 21 a bank [sic]? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Did Mr. Manafort know that you were doing that? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. How did he know? But in large respect, I In the process of doing that, did you provide false Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 300 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1279 1 A. 2 some of the documents. 3 Q. And did you, in fact, alter those documents? 4 A. Yes, we did. 5 Q. Did you alter profit and loss documents? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. How were you able to do that? 8 A. At one point, I was tasked with -- by Mr. Manafort, 9 speaking with Ms. Laporta, to determine whether or not there 10 Because he had requested certain things be changed in could be any other sources of income. 11 At the time Ms. Laporta indicated to us that the 12 only way that you can find more income is if you have loans on 13 the books, but in doing so you have to forgive a loan and if 14 you do that, there's a tax consequence with that as well. 15 Q. 16 you changed them from PDF documents to other types of 17 documents? 18 A. Yes, to Word documents. 19 Q. Okay. 20 Can you tell me what this is? 21 A. This is an e-mail to me from Mr. Manafort. 22 Q. And does this relate to some of the loan applications 23 Mr. Manafort was making? 24 A. 25 Okay. But when you altered the P&L documents, physically Let me ask you to turn to Government Exhibit 380. It does. MR. ANDRES: The Government moves to admit Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 301 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1280 1 Government Exhibit 380. 2 MR. DOWNING: 3 THE COURT: No objection. Admitted. 4 (Government's Exhibit No. 380 5 admitted into evidence.) 6 BY MR. ANDRES: 7 Q. 8 from and to and the date? 9 A. 10 Starting at the top, can you tell us who the e-mail is Yes. Subject is VIP time sensitive. 11 12 It's to me from Mr. Manafort on January 6, 2016. MR. ANDRES: Your Honor, may I publish this document? 13 THE COURT: You may. 14 BY MR. ANDRES: 15 Q. 16 title? 17 A. VIP time sensitive. 18 Q. Can you summarize the e-mail for the jury? 19 A. Yes. 20 Mr. Ayliff in regards to a question that he wanted additional 21 information and was hoping for a specific answer in regards to 22 some of his properties that he was using to apply for the 23 loan. 24 Q. 25 Howard Street property. Okay. And with respect to the document, what's the Mr. Manafort had requested me to reach out to Mr. Manafort said he wants to cash out refinance on the What did you understand that to mean? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 302 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1281 1 A. That a cash-out refinance is, if successfully you obtain 2 the mortgage, then part of what you get back is cash. 3 Q. 4 Howard Street as a second loan." Mr. Manafort says, "For the maximum benefit I'm claiming 5 6 Do you know if Mr. Manafort has ever -- as a second home, excuse me. 7 Has Mr. Manafort ever lived at Howard Street? 8 A. To my knowledge, no. 9 Q. Do you know what his primary residence was? 10 A. At that time it was his house in Florida. 11 Q. And how did you know his house in Florida was his primary 12 residence? 13 A. 14 estate attorneys, changed the incorporation documentation to 15 have the company listed as a Florida-based company and then 16 Mr. Manafort changed his state of residence to Florida. 17 Q. 18 that in? 19 A. That was in New York City, New York. 20 Q. When Mr. Manafort was in New York City, where did he 21 stay? 22 A. He had an apartment on Fifth Avenue. 23 Q. When Mr. Manafort said he -- in order to have a maximum 24 benefit that he's claiming Howard Street as a second home, do 25 you have an understanding what that referred to? Because I, along with one of our legal advisors and real And the Howard Street property, what city and state was Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 303 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1282 1 A. Yes. Just that he was looking for the most favorable 2 terms in the mortgage interest rate. 3 Q. 4 property is a home or an investment property? 5 A. 6 described that there were. 7 Q. 8 with David Fallarino. 9 A. And do you know if there are different terms if the Based on my conversation with Ms. Laporta, yeah, she Okay. And then he -- he says he needs to be in touch David Fallarino was the banking representative at 10 Citizens Bank. 11 Q. 12 Who is that? Okay. And he asked you to get in touch with Mr. Ayliff. Did you ever get in touch with Mr. Ayliff? 13 A. 14 able to speak with Ms. Laporta. 15 Q. 16 understand about what actions Ms. Laporta had taken as a 17 result of that conversation? 18 A. 19 various options and then she, I believe, had designated 20 Mr. Manafort to use this as a second home. 21 Q. 22 I was not able to get in touch with Mr. Ayliff, but I was And what, if anything, did Ms. Laporta -- what did you Ms. Laporta had given some background information on the Can I ask you to take a look at Government Exhibit 235. Can you tell me what that is? 23 A. Originally this is an e-mail from Linda Francis in 24 regards to outstanding items she needed to process Paul's bank 25 loan application. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 304 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1283 1 Q. Who is Melinda Francis? 2 A. She was a banking representative at Citizens Bank that 3 worked with Mr. Fallarino. 4 Q. 5 the property -- excuse me. And do you know where Mr. Manafort was applying for -- or 6 Do you know what property he was seeking a loan with 7 respect to at Citizens Bank? 8 A. 9 Union Street and also Baxter Street. Yes. 10 Q. 11 the actual loan, did it relate to Howard Street? 12 A. Oh, yes, Howard Street. 13 Q. So if you look at number -- the e-mail from Mr. Manafort 14 to Ms. Francis on February 21st, can you tell me what that 15 says? 16 A. 17 questions that you posed in your e-mail. 18 red. 19 48 hours." 20 21 Okay. At Citizens I believe it was a property called Well, those were the mortgages. With respect to (As read): "Melinda, I have provided answers to the My answers are in I will provide the requested documentation in the next MR. ANDRES: The Government moves to admit Government Exhibit 235. 22 THE COURT: Well, that portion of it I will admit. 23 Any objection to portion of it? 24 (A pause in the proceedings.) 25 MR. DOWNING: No, Your Honor. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 305 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1284 1 THE COURT: Admitted. 2 (Government's Exhibit No. 235 3 admitted into evidence.) 4 THE COURT: Next question. And that's an e-mail 5 from Mr. Manafort, so it's clearly admissible. 6 sure you either need or want to have the hearsay testimony 7 from a person who isn't here and testifying. 8 9 MR. ANDRES: I'm -- I'm not Thank you, Your Honor. BY MR. ANDRES: 10 Q. With respect to the request for information, was there a 11 request for information about certain mortgages on properties 12 that Mr. Manafort owned? 13 A. There was. 14 Q. Okay. 15 to the Union Street property? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Okay. 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Do you know when Mr. Manafort applied for the loan how he 20 represented the Union Street property? 21 A. He represented that it had no mortgage on the property. 22 Q. And did you understand that it did? 23 A. I later came to learn that it did, yes. 24 Q. Okay. 25 A. From some documentation Mr. Manafort had requested me to Was there a request for information with respect And how about the Baxter Street property? How did you learn that fact? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 306 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1285 1 gather from his insurance representative. 2 Q. Who is that? 3 A. Donna Duggan. 4 Q. And when you called Donna Duggan, what did you ask for? 5 A. I asked her for the current insurance policies that 6 Mr. Manafort had asked me to obtain for him from her. 7 Q. 8 policy or did you ask for a different copy? 9 A. When you spoke to Ms. Duggan, did you ask for the current At the time I asked -- 10 THE COURT: The correct question is what did you ask 11 for, because otherwise you're only giving him two choices and 12 it's leading. 13 What did you ask for is the question. THE WITNESS: I asked for the current year policy. 14 BY MR. ANDRES: 15 Q. 16 did you have a second discussion or interaction with 17 Ms. Duggan? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. And what did you ask for then? 20 A. At that point Mr. Manafort had asked me to get the prior 21 year policy. 22 Q. Okay. 23 A. I did. 24 Q. And what did you do with that document? 25 A. I sent it to Melinda Francis at the bank. Okay. And did you later have a discussion with Ms. -- And did you? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 307 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1286 1 Q. And what did you represent that to be? 2 A. These were two of the insurance policies Mr. Manafort had 3 asked me to obtain for him, and both of them showed that they 4 were free and clear of any mortgages. 5 Q. 6 accurate? 7 A. It was not. 8 Q. How was it inaccurate? 9 A. Because there was a mortgage listed on the Union Street And when you sent that document to Citizens Bank, was it 10 property. 11 Q. Can I ask you to turn to Government Exhibit 237? 12 When you sent that inaccurate mortgage document to 13 the bank, did you know it was false? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And was Mr. Manafort involved in those e-mails? 16 A. He was. 17 Q. Can I ask you -- when you look at Government Exhibit 237, 18 can you tell me what that is? 19 A. 20 Mr. Manafort and Ms. Washkuhn. 21 some of the outstanding documents that the bank had required. 22 Q. 23 Ms. -- to Ms. Francis on behalf of Mr. Manafort? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. And is there attachment to this document? This is an e-mail from me to Ms. Francis. Okay. I copied And this is in regard to the And you were sending documents back and forth to Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 308 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1287 1 A. There is. 2 Q. And does that -- the attachment, is that the current 3 version of the insurance or is it the older version? 4 THE COURT: 5 MR. ANDRES: 6 BY MR. ANDRES: 7 Q. 8 the jury? 9 A. Again, you're giving him two choices. Understood, Your Honor. I'm sorry. With respect to the attachment, can you describe that to Yes. The effective date on the attachment is 10/12/2015, 10 which would have been the prior year policy. 11 Q. 12 that? 13 A. The date of the e-mail is February 23, 2016. 14 Q. Okay. 15 property, is that included in the document? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Okay. 18 what's the effective date of that policy? 19 A. Okay. That document that you sent, what's the date of The e-mail, I'm sorry. And the policy with respect to the Union Street And with respect to the Union Street property, The effective date is 10/12/2015. 20 MR. ANDRES: 21 THE COURT: 22 (A pause in the proceedings.) 23 MR. ANDRES: 24 document, Your Honor. 25 THE COURT: Can I have one moment, Your Honor? Yes, you may. I'll move on and come back to this I beg your pardon? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 309 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1288 1 2 MR. ANDRES: back to this document, if that's okay. 3 THE COURT: 4 MR. ANDRES: 5 BY MR. ANDRES: 6 Q. All right. To move things along. Can I ask you to take a look at Government Exhibit 240. 7 8 I said I was going to move on and come Actually, I'm sorry, Mr. Gates, can you turn back to the prior exhibit, 235 -- 237. 9 Can you look at the document marked "7526," the last 10 four Bates numbers? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Do you see that? 13 A. I do. 14 Q. What's the property listed there? 15 A. Property listed is 377 Union Street. 16 Q. What's the effective date of that policy? 17 A. 2/1/2016. 18 Q. And this is the document that's attached -- the -- the 19 insurance folders that's attached to Government's Exhibit 237; 20 is that right? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. As far as you understood, how would you describe that 23 version of the policy? 24 A. 25 by the insurance brokers. This was the most current policy that had been submitted Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 310 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1289 1 Q. Can I ask you now to turn to Government's Exhibit 240? 2 MR. ANDRES: Your Honor, I just want to make sure I 3 admit or I move to admit Government Exhibit 237 -- or 240. 4 I'm sorry. 240. 5 THE COURT: 6 MR. ANDRES: 7 THE COURT: Not admitted yet. Move to admit it, Judge. Any objection to 240, which is a -- just 8 a moment -- e-mail chain that includes Mr. Manafort? 9 objection. 10 MR. DOWNING: 11 MR. ANDRES: 12 THE COURT: 13 MR. ANDRES: 14 MR. DOWNING: 15 THE COURT: 16 MR. DOWNING: 17 THE COURT: 18 Any One moment, Your Honor. It's 237, Your Honor. Oh, it was 237? Yes. I thought you said 240. That's an e-mail chain Mr. -No objection. No objection. All right. It's admitted. 19 (Government's Exhibit No. 237 20 admitted into evidence.) 21 BY MR. ANDRES: 22 Q. Can I ask you to turn to Government Exhibit 240 now? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Can you tell me what that is? 25 A. This is an e-mail chain involving myself, Mr. Manafort, Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 311 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1290 1 Ms. Washkuhn, and Ms. Francis. 2 Q. 3 this e-mail? 4 A. She is. 5 Q. Is Mr. Manafort included in these e-mails? 6 A. He is. 7 Q. Okay. 8 A. She's asking about the properties in question, Union 9 Street and Baxter Street, as being owned free and clear. Okay. And is Ms. Francis asking a question in this -- in And what is she asking? 10 Their records indicate that one of the properties was not. 11 Q. 12 understood at this time? 13 A. She did. 14 Q. Okay. 15 A. The conflicting information that she was given the 16 current year policy, which in the case of the one property 17 showed the mortgagee listed on it. 18 Q. Okay. 19 A. I'm sorry. 20 Q. Who had sent her the current policy? 21 A. I sent her the current policy. 22 Q. Okay. 23 listed on his application? 24 A. The current policy was not accurate. 25 Q. Okay. Has she received conflicting information, as you And what was the conflicting information? Who had sent her the current policy? And is that consistent with what Mr. Manafort Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 312 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1291 1 A. Excuse me. 2 Mr. Manafort had asked me to submit the prior year policies. 3 4 The current policy was accurate. MR. ANDRES: Your Honor, the Government moves to admit Government Exhibit 240. 5 MR. DOWNING: 6 THE COURT: No objection. Admitted. 7 (Government's Exhibit No. 240 8 admitted into evidence.) 9 10 BY MR. ANDRES: Q. Can I ask you now to look at Government Exhibit 263? 11 Can you tell me what that is? 12 A. This is an e-mail from me to Donna Duggan. 13 had requested that I reach out to Ms. Duggan to get some 14 information that he had already spoken to her about. 15 Q. 16 that between? 17 A. At the -- at the e-mail -- at the bottom e-mail, who is At the bottom e-mail is between myself and Ms. Duggan. 18 19 Mr. Manafort MR. ANDRES: Your Honor, the Government moves to admit 263. 20 MR. DOWNING: 21 THE COURT: Without objection. Admitted. 22 (Government's Exhibit No. 263 23 admitted into evidence.) 24 BY MR. ANDRES: 25 Q. And can you summarize for the jury what's happening in Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 313 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1292 1 this e-mail? 2 MR. ANDRES: May I publish it, Your Honor. 3 THE COURT: 4 THE WITNESS: You may. Yes. Mr. Manafort asked that I reach 5 out to Ms. Duggan in order to get the prior year policy after 6 Ms. Francis had indicated that there was a discrepancy in the 7 current year policy. 8 BY MR. ANDRES: 9 Q. And did you e-mail back and forth with Ms. Duggan? 10 A. I did. 11 Q. Did you eventually speak with her? 12 A. I did. 13 Q. And what specifically did you request? 14 A. I requested the copy of the prior year policy per 15 Mr. Manafort. 16 Q. And did she -- why did you do that? 17 A. Because at the time Mr. Manafort had asked me to. 18 Q. And did she provide that? 19 A. She did. 20 Q. I'm going to show you Government Exhibit 384. 21 Can you tell me what that is? 22 A. It's an e-mail between me and Mr. Manafort. 23 Q. Okay. 24 testifying about with Donna Duggan? 25 A. And does it relate to this issue that you've been It does. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 314 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1293 1 Q. And the Citizens Bank loan? 2 A. Yes. 3 4 MR. ANDRES: The Government moves to admit Government Exhibit 384. 5 MR. DOWNING: 6 THE COURT: No objection. Admitted. 7 (Government's Exhibit No. 384 8 admitted into evidence.) 9 MR. ANDRES: 10 THE COURT: 11 BY MR. ANDRES: 12 Q. May I publish it? You may. Can I focus on the e-mail at the bottom at 2:45? 13 Mr. Gates, can you explain that e-mail? 14 A. Yes. 15 him that I was successful in reaching Ms. Duggan and told him 16 that we would have the amended policies very soon. 17 Q. 18 from Ms. Duggan; is that correct? 19 A. Correct. 20 Q. So with respect to the Baxter Street insurance policy, 21 the policy that was originally sent to the bank, how would you 22 describe that? 23 A. That was accurate. 24 Q. Okay. 25 A. In the sense that there was no mortgagee listed on that Okay. It is a follow-up for Mr. Manafort, indicating to So there were two insurance policies that you got How? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 315 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1294 1 insurance policy. 2 Q. And did you get the right one? 3 A. We did. 4 Q. And what did you do with it? 5 A. Submitted it to her. 6 Q. With respect to the Union Street property, the one that 7 was originally submitted to the bank, was that the -- was that 8 correct? 9 A. It was not correct. 10 Q. Okay. 11 A. The one that was -- the original policy was accurate. 12 reflected the mortgagee. 13 Q. And what did you get from Ms. Duggan? 14 A. Ms. Duggan sent us the prior year policy, which we then 15 forwarded to the bank. 16 Q. And was that accurate? 17 A. That was not accurate. 18 Q. Okay. 19 Mr. Manafort, what are you discussing? 20 A. 21 request regarding the insurance policies. 22 who we're sending these to at Citizens, or if I had sent them 23 to anybody at Citizens, and I said that I would be sending 24 them to Melinda. 25 Q. The one that was originally sent to the bank? It And your e-mail here on February 24, 2016 with Again, I'm updating Mr. Manafort on the status of his Okay. He then asked me Can I show you Government Exhibit 262? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 316 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1295 1 Can you tell me what that is? 2 A. Yes. These are the declaration pages for both Union 3 Street property and Baxter Street, forwarded to Mrs. Duggan to 4 myself and Ms. Azzam at UBS Bank. 5 MR. ANDRES: The Government moves to admit 262. 6 MR. DOWNING: 7 THE COURT: No objection. Admitted. 8 (Government's Exhibit No. 262 9 admitted into evidence.) 10 BY MR. ANDRES: 11 Q. 12 spoke to her? 13 A. It is. 14 Q. And how would you characterize this policy that she sent 15 to you after you spoke to her? 16 A. 17 sent. 18 Q. Is this the document that Ms. Duggan sent you after you This was the prior year policy to the earlier one she had Okay. 19 Can I show you now Government Exhibit 137? What is Government Exhibit 137? 20 A. This is an e-mail from me to Ms. Francis, copying 21 Mr. Manafort and Ms. Washkuhn. 22 Q. Okay. 23 A. In regards to the two properties. 24 Q. And who is Melinda Francis? 25 A. She's the representative at Citizens Bank. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 317 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1296 1 Q. Okay. 2 A. I sent her the two previous year policies on the two 3 properties. 4 Q. 5 in reference to? 6 A. Where it says, "MC Brooklyn (Carol Gardens)," what's that That is Union Street. 7 8 And what did you send her? MR. ANDRES: The Government moves to admit Government Exhibit 137. 9 MR. DOWNING: 10 THE COURT: No objection. It's admitted. 11 (Government's Exhibit No. 137 12 admitted into evidence.) 13 BY MR. ANDRES: 14 Q. With respect to the -- 15 MR. ANDRES: Thank you, Your Honor. 16 BY MR. ANDRES: 17 Q. 18 is that? 19 A. The Union Street property. 20 Q. Okay. 21 insurance policy that you sent to Melinda Francis on this date 22 with respect to that property? 23 A. 24 reflect no mortgagees on the properties. 25 Q. With respect to MC Brooklyn, Carol Gardens, what property And what -- how would you characterize the So this e-mail attaches the two older policies, which Okay. And with respect to Baxter Street, was there a Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 318 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1297 1 mortgage there? 2 A. There was not. 3 Q. Okay. 4 mortgage there? 5 A. There was. 6 Q. Okay. 7 Bank, did an issue arise with respect to Peranova? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Okay. 10 A. The issue that arose was regarding the effort of 11 Mr. Manafort to find additional income for the mortgage 12 application. 13 books at DMP had been forgiven and then was treated as income. 14 Q. Okay. 15 A. Peranova Holdings. 16 Q. And during the course of the time that you worked for 17 Mr. -- what was Peranova? 18 A. 19 Mr. Manafort. 20 Q. 21 Peranova, the Cypriote entity, ever make a loan to 22 Mr. Manafort? 23 A. It did not. 24 Q. Were there payments from Peranova to Mr. Manafort? 25 A. There were. And with respect to Union Street, was there a During the course of the dealings with Citizens And what issue arose with respect to Peranova? This is when one of the loans that was on the So -- and that loan related to what entity? Peranova was a Cypriote entity and the controller was During the time that you worked for Mr. Manafort, did Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 319 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1298 1 Q. What were they? 2 A. Income. 3 Q. Were they always income? 4 A. To my knowledge, yes. 5 Q. Can I ask you to look at Government Exhibit 163? 6 MR. ANDRES: It's already admitted into evidence, 7 Your Honor. 8 BY MR. ANDRES: 9 Q. Can you tell me what Government Exhibit 163 is? 10 A. Yes. 11 Fallarino and Cindy Laporta, and then later -- yes, and copies 12 Ms. Francis. 13 Q. And with respect -- and you're on the top e-mail? 14 A. I'm on the top and Mr. Manafort is as well. 15 Q. And what's the -- what's the date of the e-mail, the top 16 one? 17 A. February 4, 2016. 18 Q. Okay. 19 o'clock where it says, "we qualify for everything," do you see 20 that? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Can you describe what's -- what's being conveyed to 23 Mr. Manafort there? 24 A. 25 came back and indicated areas that we were still lacking in Yes. It's an e-mail exchange initially between David Can you look at the e-mail on February 4 at four So after submitting a series of documents, the bank Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 320 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1299 1 documentation. 2 on the information they received in terms of the 3 differentiating tax years, is there was a liquidity issue with 4 respect to Mr. Manafort's current year income. 5 Q. 6 solved in some regard? 7 A. I believe it was, yeah, solved partially. 8 Q. Okay. 9 A. By converting the Peranova loan to income, we were able Okay. One of the areas that they described is based And did you solve that problem or was that problem How? 10 then to treat that as income on the books for 2015. 11 Q. And when you say, "converted," how did you convert that? 12 A. We did a loan forgiveness letter between Peranova and DMP 13 International. 14 Q. And who is Peranova? 15 A. A company controlled by Mr. Manafort. 16 Q. Did a loan forgiveness letter between Mr. Manafort and 17 Mr. Manafort? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. And was the -- were the details of that loan forgiveness, 20 the dates, were they accurate? 21 A. They were not. 22 Q. And did Ms. Laporta help you with that process? 23 A. She did. 24 Q. Can I ask you to turn to Government Exhibit 164? 25 MR. ANDRES: This is already in evidence, Your Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 321 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1300 1 Honor. 2 BY MR. ANDRES: 3 Q. 4 know when you've had a chance to read it? 5 A. Okay. 6 Q. Can you look at the e-mail at 3:28 on the first page and 7 explain, summarize that for the jury? 8 A. 9 that she will need documentation supporting the 1.5 million Can you take a look at Government Exhibit 164 and let me Yes. Ms. Laporta is reaching out to me and she's says 10 loan forgiveness. 11 to the banker. 12 earlier that she's requesting to demonstrate the loan. 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. I responded that I will get her the letter and then she 15 could do the cover letter that Mr. Manafort had requested. 16 Q. 17 had the loan, in fact, been forgiven? 18 A. No. 19 Q. It never existed in the first place? 20 A. Correct. 21 Q. Can I ask you to turn to Government Exhibit 165? 22 23 This is in order so that she can report it So this is the letter that I had mentioned And how did you respond? At the time that you're discussing writing this letter, THE COURT: But the money represented, was that actual money paid to Mr. Manafort for services? 24 THE WITNESS: 25 THE COURT: It was. Next question. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 322 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1301 1 BY MR. ANDRES: 2 Q. Can I ask you to turn to Government 165? 3 4 MR. ANDRES: Which is already in evidence, Your Honor. 5 THE COURT: All right. 6 We're going recess at 12:30, ladies and gentlemen. 7 BY MR. ANDRES: 8 Q. 9 that for the jury, Mr. Gates? When you look at Government Exhibit 165, can you describe 10 A. Yes. This is the draft loan forgiveness letter that I 11 had sent to Ms. Laporta so that she could review and make sure 12 that nothing else needed to be included with it before I got 13 the signatures. 14 Q. 15 Ms. Laporta? 16 A. And what is the date on the e-mail that you send to It is February 8, 2016. 17 MR. ANDRES: 18 THE COURT: 19 BY MR. ANDRES: 20 Q. 21 May I publish this, Your Honor? Yes. Just highlight the date. Where do you see the date on that e-mail? 22 A. Where it says, "sent, Monday, 2/8/2016." 23 Q. And who is the e-mail to? 24 A. To Cindy Laporta from me. 25 Q. And if you look now at the attachment, what is that? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 323 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1302 1 A. Peranova loan forgive. 2 Q. Okay. 3 A. June 23, 2015. 4 Q. When you wrote the letter, did you put the right date? 5 A. No. 6 had to secure a date in that year. 7 Q. And, again, the purpose for this document is to do what? 8 A. To forgive a loan in order to treat loan as income in 9 2015. And what's the date on the letter? The income needed to be associated with 2015, so we 10 Q. And that was in relation to Mr. Manafort's bank loan 11 application? 12 A. Bank loan application, that's correct. 13 THE COURT: Was the money involved always income? 14 THE WITNESS: 15 THE COURT: It was. Next question. 16 BY MR. ANDRES: 17 Q. Can I ask you to turn to Government Exhibit 166? 18 A. Okay. 19 20 MR. ANDRES: This is already in evidence, Your Honor. 21 THE COURT: All right. 22 BY MR. ANDRES: 23 Q. 24 and explain who that e-mail is to and from and summarize it 25 for the jury? Can I ask you to take a look at Government Exhibit 166 Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 324 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1303 1 A. Yes. 2 the loan letter that she, in essence, approved. 3 was going to originally do a cover e-mail of -- Mr. Manafort 4 had requested actually a cover letter with the KWC letterhead 5 on it because it was being submitted to the bank. 6 asking her basically to do a letter instead of an e-mail. 7 Q. 8 forgiveness issue? 9 A. It does. 10 Q. Okay. Okay. 11 It's to Ms. Laporta from me and it's in regards to So I'm And this, again, relates to the Peranova loan Can I ask you to turn to Government Exhibit 389? Can you describe Government Exhibit 389? 12 A. This is an e-mail to Mr. Manafort from me. 13 Q. Okay. 14 15 And then she MR. ANDRES: Your Honor, the Government moves to admit Government Exhibit 389. 16 MR. DOWNING: 17 THE COURT: No objection. Admitted. 18 (Government's Exhibit No. 389 19 admitted into evidence.) 20 BY MR. ANDRES: 21 Q. 22 from you to Mr. Manafort? 23 A. 24 Mr. Manafort to get his approval and sign off as well in case 25 he wanted to add anything. And can you describe what's happening here in the e-mail Yes. After Ms. Laporta approved the letter, I sent it to Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 325 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1304 1 Q. And did he ultimately approve? 2 A. Yes, he did. 3 Q. Okay. 4 Can you turn to Government Exhibit 388? Can you tell me what that is? 5 A. 6 This shows that Mr. Manafort is fine with the letter and it 7 can go forward and he requests that it be on KWC's stationary, 8 and then I indicate that the cover note from Ms. Laporta will 9 be, but that the forgiveness letter would be on Peranova 10 Yes. letterhead since Peranova was forgiving the loan. 11 12 This is a continuation of the previous e-mail. MR. ANDRES: Government moves to admit Government Exhibit 388. 13 MR. DOWNING: 14 THE COURT: No objection. Admitted. 15 (Government's Exhibit No. 388 16 admitted into evidence.) 17 BY MR. ANDRES: 18 Q. 19 in Peranova, there's -- do you know what year that was 20 actually earned? 21 A. I believe it was 2012. 22 Q. Okay. 23 A. That's correct. 24 Q. Can I ask you to turn to Government Exhibit 167? 25 Mr. Gates, with respect to the income that was at issue It wasn't 2015; is that correct? Can you tell me what that is? Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 326 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1305 1 A. Yes. 2 with the director of the signature from the Cypriote company. 3 Q. Okay. 4 A. In this case, it was a woman by the name of 5 Ms. Chrysostomides. 6 Q. 7 Dr. K? 8 A. Dr. K's firm, that's correct. 9 Q. Okay. Okay. This is the final letter that I send to Ms. Laporta And who is the director from the Cypriote company? And is that an individual that's associated with With respect to the e-mail in 167, what's the date 10 of that e-mail? 11 A. February 9, 2016. 12 Q. Okay. 13 A. June 23, 2015. And the -- and the letter that was signed? 14 MR. ANDRES: 15 MR. DOWNING: 16 THE COURT: 17 Is this an appropriate time? 18 MR. ANDRES: Judge. 21 Admitted. It's now virtually THE COURT: BY MR. ANDRES: 23 Q. 24 I have two documents left of this loan, Could I finish those? 22 25 No objection. 12:30. 19 20 The Government moves to admit 167. All right. Go ahead. You may do it. Take a look at Government Exhibit 424. Can you tell me what that is? A. Let's see. Yes, this is in reference to the loan. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 327 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1306 1 Mr. Manafort is on an e-mail exchange with other individuals 2 from Citizens Bank, and this is where the requirement from the 3 bank saying that the letter from Ms. Laporta will need to be 4 on KWC letterhead. 5 requesting me to make sure that we get that on KWC letterhead. 6 Q. 7 relates to the loan application at Citizens Bank? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And also the -- 10 A. The Peranova loan, correct. Just to clarify, you said this relates to a loan. 11 12 So this is where Mr. Manafort is MR. ANDRES: It And the Government moves to admit 424, Your Honor. 13 MR. DOWNING: 14 THE COURT: No objection. Admitted. 15 (Government's Exhibit No. 424 16 admitted into evidence.) 17 BY MR. ANDRES: 18 Q. 19 and interacting with Ms. Laporta, was Mr. Manafort fully 20 informed of what was happening with respect to the Peranova 21 letter? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And did you include him on e-mails? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. And the the e-mail in 424, Mr. Manafort is included in During the process of crafting the letter for the bank Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 328 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1307 1 that e-mail chain; is that right? 2 A. He is. 3 Q. And if you look at the top e-mail on 424, does it 4 reference a conversation between Mr. Manafort and Ms. Laporta? 5 A. 6 updating Mr. Manafort. 7 Q. I'm sorry, so that's -- that top e-mail is for you? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Okay. 10 A. That Cindy would put the letter on the letterhead. 11 Q. Okay. 12 document, as it relates to this issue. Well, it's a reference to me talking to Ms. Laporta and 13 14 And you were informing Mr. Manafort of what? Let me show you Government Exhibit 168, the last MR. ANDRES: This is already in evidence, Your Honor. 15 THE COURT: All right. 16 BY MR. ANDRES: 17 Q. 18 that is. 19 A. 20 highlighted for Mr. Manafort and had asked Ms. Laporta to 21 become involved in terms of the ordinary income versus the 22 dividend income in regards to Mr. Manafort's income. 23 Q. 24 look at the last page, it's the forgiveness letter? 25 A. Can you take a look at the exhibit at 168? Tell me what Yes, this is in regard to another issue Mr. Fallarino Okay. But attached to this string of e-mails, if you It is. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 329 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1308 1 Q. 2 being sent to Citizens Bank? 3 A. 4 prior. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. Let's see. 7 Q. On the first page at 168? 8 A. Oh, 168. 9 10 Okay. And in this -- is that forgiveness letter now Yes, Ms. Laporta sent it with her cover note on the page And who was CC'd on that cover note? So it was myself and Mr. Manafort. MR. ANDRES: Your Honor, I can stop now if that's appropriate. 11 THE COURT: Yes. 12 All right. You may step down, Mr. Gates. And 13 remember, you may not discuss your testimony with anyone 14 during the luncheon recess. 15 THE WITNESS: 16 THE COURT: 17 Mr. Andres, how much more do you anticipate with 18 Understood. We'll reconvene at 1:35. this witness? 19 MR. ANDRES: 20 THE COURT: Less than an hour, Your Honor. Now, you've listed on your witness list 21 a number of witnesses. 22 the fifteenth witness and we're not yet finished, and there 23 are twice that number on your list. 24 you expect to call? 25 MR. ANDRES: We've heard thus far from 15. This is I assume not all of those That's absolutely true, Your Honor. Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 330 of 580 U.S. v. Manafort 1309 1 2 THE COURT: MR. ANDRES: this week. 5 6 And when do you think you'll finish your case in chief? 3 4 All right. Your Honor, we're hoping by the end of That's our intention. THE COURT: All right. right, ladies and gentlemen. 7 Pass your books to the You've done that. Remember, during the luncheon recess not to discuss 8 the case with anyone or undertake any investigation on your 9 own. I hope you enjoy your pheasant under glass or whatever 10 else you were able to see on the menu. 11 hard at Panera's menu, but I've never seen that. 12 you do get something engaging, you can tell me about it and 13 I'll take steps to get it. 14 15 Thank you. I've looked pretty So maybe if We'll resume at -- well, let's resume at 1:35. 16 You may follow Mr. Flood out. 17 (Jury dismissed.) 18 (Lunch Recess 12:32 p.m.) 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Tonia M. Harris OCR-USDC/EDVA 703-646-1438 EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 331 of 580 1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 2 3 I, Tonia Harris, an Official Court Reporter for 4 the Eastern District of Virginia, do hereby certify that I 5 reported by machine shorthand, in my official capacity, the 6 proceedings had and testimony adduced upon the Jury Trial 7 in the case of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA versus PAUL J. 8 MANAFORT, JR., Criminal Action No. 1:18-CR-83, in said 9 court on the 7th day of August, 2018. 10 I further certify that the foregoing 133 pages 11 constitute the official transcript of said proceedings, as 12 taken from my machine shorthand notes, my computer realtime 13 display, together with the backup tape recording of said 14 proceedings to the best of my ability. 15 16 In witness whereof, I have hereto subscribed my name, this August 7, 2018. 17 18 19 20 21 ______________________________ Tonia M. Harris, RPR Official Court Reporter 22 23 24 25 1310 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 332 of 580 1311 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA ALEXANDRIA DIVISION ------------------------------x UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, . . versus . . PAUL J. MANAFORT, JR., . . Defendant. . ------------------------------x Criminal Action No. 1:18-CR-83 August 7, 2018 Volume VI-P.M. TRANSCRIPT OF JURY TRIAL BEFORE THE HONORABLE T. S. ELLIS, III UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE APPEARANCES: FOR THE GOVERNMENT: UZO ASONYE, AUSA United States Attorney's Office 2100 Jamieson Avenue Alexandria, VA 22314 and GREG D. ANDRES, SAUSA BRANDON L. VAN GRACK, SAUSA Special Counsel's Office U.S. Department of Justice 950 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20530 FOR THE DEFENDANT: JAY ROHIT NANAVATI, ESQ. BRIAN P. KETCHAM, ESQ. Kostelanetz & Fink LLP 601 New Jersey Avenue, N.W. Suite 620 Washington, D.C. 20001 and THOMAS E. ZEHNLE, ESQ. Law Office of Thomas E. Zehnle 601 New Jersey Avenue, N.W. Suite 620 Washington, D.C. 20001 (APPEARANCES CONT'D. ON FOLLOWING PAGE) (Pages 1311 - 1446) COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION OF STENOGRAPHIC NOTES Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 333 of 580 1312 1 APPEARANCES: (Cont'd.) 2 FOR THE DEFENDANT: KEVIN M. DOWNING, ESQ. Law Office of Kevin M. Downing 601 New Jersey Avenue, N.W. Suite 620 Washington, D.C. 20001 and RICHARD W. WESTLING, ESQ. Epstein, Becker & Green, P.C. 1227 25th Street, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20037 OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER: ANNELIESE J. THOMSON, RDR, CRR U.S. District Court, Fifth Floor 401 Courthouse Square Alexandria, VA 22314 (703)299-8595 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 334 of 580 1313 1 INDEX 2 WITNESS EXAMINATION PAGE DIRECT CROSS 1314 1361 3 4 RICHARD GATES (Resumed) 5 6 7 E X H I B I T S 8 9 10 Government Government Government Government Government Exhibit Exhibit Exhibit Exhibit Exhibit No. No. No. No. No. 391 392 398 377 400 was was was was was received received received received received 1315 1316 1328 1329 1331 Government Government Government Government Government Exhibit Exhibit Exhibit Exhibit Exhibit No. No. No. No. No. 403 405 407 408 409 was was was was was received received received received received 1334 1336 1338 1340 1341 Government Government Government Government Government Exhibit Exhibit Exhibit Exhibit Exhibit No. No. No. No. No. 406 411 399 402 393 was was was was was received received received received received 1342 1343 1348 1350 1353 Defendant's Exhibit No. 14 was received Defendant's Exhibit No. 15 was received 1411 1415 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 335 of 580 Gates - Direct 1 1314 A F T E R N O O N 2 (Defendant present, Jury out.) 3 4 S E S S I O N THE COURT: All right. You may call the jury, please. 5 (Jury present.) 6 THE COURT: 7 Ladies and gentlemen, I hope your lunches were 8 adequate, satisfactory. 9 10 11 All right. You may be seated. Good. We'll proceed. Let's bring Mr. Gates back, please. RICHARD GATES, GOVERNMENT'S WITNESS, PREVIOUSLY SWORN, RESUMED 12 13 All right. THE COURT: You'll recall, sir, you remain under oath. 14 THE WITNESS: 15 THE COURT: 16 And, Mr. Andres, you may complete your direct 17 I understand, Your Honor. You may resume the stand. examination. 18 MR. ANDRES: 19 Thank you, Your Honor. DIRECT EXAMINATION (Cont'd.) 20 BY MR. ANDRES: 21 Q. 22 involved in applying for a loan from the Banc of California? 23 A. Yes, he was. 24 Q. Were you involved in providing information to the bank for 25 that loan? Mr. Gates, did you know whether or not Mr. Manafort was Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 336 of 580 Gates - Direct 1315 1 A. I was. 2 Q. Why were you involved? 3 A. Mr. Manafort asked me to get a team of individuals, 4 including the accountants and bookkeeper, to pull together the 5 relevant documents for the loan application. 6 Q. 7 Do you have that document? 8 Exhibit 391? 9 A. Can I ask you to take a look at Government Exhibit 391? What is included in Government This is an e-mail among myself, Mr. Manafort, and 10 Mr. Yohai in regards to the bank loan and the required 11 documents from the bankers. 12 Q. What bank loan? 13 A. This is for Banc of California. 14 Q. And who's Mr. Yohai? 15 A. Mr. Yohai is Mr. Manafort's son-in-law. 16 17 MR. ANDRES: The Government moves to admit Government Exhibit 391. 18 MR. DOWNING: No objection. 19 THE COURT: 20 (Government Exhibit No. 391 was received in Admitted. 21 evidence.) 22 BY MR. ANDRES: 23 Q. 24 respect to that e-mail, there's an e-mail at 8:24 a.m. 25 see that? If you can look at the bottom of the first page with Do you Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 337 of 580 Gates - Direct 1 A. I do. 2 Q. Okay. 3 quarterback. 4 1316 Mr. Manafort writes: "Rick, you are the All information needs to go to you." What did you understand that to mean? 5 A. That means I was the point person designated with pulling 6 together all of the documents from the various individuals. 7 Q. 8 who's the loan for? 9 A. I understood it to be for Mr. Manafort. 10 Q. Did you -- were you expecting or intending to get any of 11 the funds extended by the bank? 12 A. No. 13 Q. Can you look at Government Exhibit 392? 14 what that is? 15 A. 16 put together, the banks required a response to specific 17 questions about Mr. Manafort's properties. 18 believe, and myself put this together and sent it to 19 Mr. Manafort for review. And with respect to this loan from the Banc of California, Yes. 20 21 Can you tell me As part of the document package that needed to be MR. ANDRES: Mr. Yohai, I The Government moves to admit 392, Your Honor. 22 MR. DOWNING: 23 THE COURT: 24 (Government Exhibit No. 392 was received in 25 No objection. Yes, it's admitted. evidence.) Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 338 of 580 Gates - Direct 1 MR. ANDRES: 2 THE COURT: 1317 May I publish it? Yes, you may. 3 BY MR. ANDRES: 4 Q. 5 loan, Mr. Gates? 6 A. It does. 7 Q. And the e-mail from Mr. Manafort makes a reference-- the 8 top e-mail, can you tell me who that's from and who it's to? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. At what time? 11 A. 3:55 p.m. 12 Q. And after Mr. Manafort writes, "Rick," can you read the 13 last sentence? 14 A. 15 This e-mail in 392, it relates to the Banc of California It's to me from Mr. Manafort. Yes. "I need to see the P&L and then we are fine." 16 Q. And what did you understand that to mean? 17 A. This is in reference to the profit and loss statement that 18 was required by the bank as one of the documents. 19 Q. 20 created those documents? 21 A. Ms. Washkuhn. 22 Q. May I ask you to take a look at Government Exhibit 140? And based on your time at -- working for Mr. Manafort, who 23 MR. ANDRES: 24 THE COURT: 25 MR. ANDRES: This is in evidence, Your Honor. All right. May I publish it? Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 339 of 580 Gates - Direct 1 THE COURT: 1318 Yes, you may. 2 BY MR. ANDRES: 3 Q. 4 Can you tell me what this is? 5 A. 6 Ms. Washkuhn in terms of obtaining the profit and loss 7 statement for 2015. 8 Q. And why are you asking Ms. Washkuhn for the P&L? 9 A. I'm asking Ms. Washkuhn for the P&L because we need to add I ask you to take a look at the Government's Exhibit 140. Yes. This is an e-mail exchange between myself and 10 additional income into the P&L in order to obtain an income 11 level that was equal to or close to prior years. 12 Q. Did you need to alter the document? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And who directed you to get the P&L? 15 A. Mr. Manafort did. 16 Q. Who directed you to alter it? 17 A. Mr. Manafort. 18 Q. Can you look at the last e-mail in the chain from 19 Ms. Washkuhn at March 16th, 7:18 a.m.? 20 21 22 Can you read that e-mail? A. Yes. (As read): "Can you send me the Word document 23 version of the 2015 P&L for DMP International before 24 11:00 a.m.? 25 have not received yet, in order to send it to the Banc of Paul wants me to add the accrual revenue, which we Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 340 of 580 Gates - Direct 1319 1 California. 2 and not completely clear." 3 Q. When you say a Word version, what does that mean? 4 A. A Word version is a Word document version that can be 5 edited more easily than a PDF document. 6 Q. 7 revenue? 8 A. 9 to the Opposition Bloc contract that had not been fully paid. Okay. I have the PDF version you sent but it is slanted And you said accrual revenue. Did DMP have accrual It was accrued revenue from 2014, not 2015. This related 10 Q. And the P&L that you're asking for is in what year? 11 A. The P&L is for 2015. 12 Q. And at that time, did DMP keep its books on a cash basis 13 or accrual basis? 14 A. A cash basis. 15 Q. And what's the difference? 16 A. The difference is that cash basis records revenue the year 17 that you receive it. 18 Q. 19 you -- has it ever been your experience that you can add 20 accrual revenue? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Okay. 23 When you're sending these e-mails, do you know where she is and 24 where you are? 25 A. And if you're keeping your books on a cash basis, can Look at Mrs. -- Ms. Washkuhn's response at 10:21. I believe I'm in Virginia and she's in California. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 341 of 580 Gates - Direct 1320 1 Q. Okay. Does -- how does she respond? 2 A. "Hi, Rick. 3 version. 4 software." 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. I do. 7 Q. What did you write? 8 A. I said: 9 sent which is why it is not clear. I can resend the PDF, but there is no Word These are generated directly from our accounting And do you write back? "The version I have looks to be scanned and then If you can send me the 10 original PDF version generated by the system that would be 11 great and work." 12 Q. 13 an hour. 14 A. 15 generated by your system? 16 scanner does not work well. 17 electronic version by e-mail." 18 Q. And what time are you asking her to send it to you by? 19 A. I had asked her to send it to me by 11:00 a.m. East Coast 20 time. 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Why? 24 A. Because Mr. Manafort in the earlier e-mail had indicated 25 that we needed to have all the documents to the bank by Okay. And Ms. Washkuhn says that she can send it in about What's your response to that? I say: "I am confused. Why can't you e-mail the version Scanning does not work. Your You should be able to send the Were you in a hurry to get these documents? Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 342 of 580 Gates - Direct 1321 1 9:00 a.m. Pacific time. 2 Q. 3 where it says, "The system prints," can you read that? 4 A. 5 only way to e-mail them to you is to scan them and e-mail them. 6 That is our only option unless you want a hard copy in the 7 mail." 8 Q. 9 what do you say about the accrued revenue? Okay. And how does Ms. Washkuhn respond? "The system prints financial statements. Okay. She says -- From there the And with respect to the -- your response to her, 10 A. I ask her in any case, if she can't send a PDF version, if 11 she can add the amount of the accrued revenue on her end. 12 Q. And what did she say? 13 A. She says: 14 on cash basis, not accrual." 15 Q. And what did you understand that to mean? 16 A. Meaning that she couldn't take income from either prior 17 year or successive year and actually attribute it to the 18 current year. 19 Q. And did you ultimately get a copy of this P&L? 20 A. Not one that I could use. 21 Q. Okay. 22 you mean by that? 23 A. 24 but that was in no position to be able to be edited. 25 created a separate page for this document. "Can't make that change on my end. Books are When you say "not one that you can use," what do Meaning that she had sent the scanned version that I had So I Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 343 of 580 Gates - Direct 1322 1 Q. You ultimately altered the document? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Let me ask you to take a look first at Government 4 Exhibit 138. 5 MR. ANDRES: 6 THE COURT: 7 MR. ANDRES: 8 THE COURT: 9 This is in evidence, Your Honor. All right. May I publish it to the jury? You may. BY MR. ANDRES: 10 Q. What is Government Exhibit 138? 11 A. This is an e-mail from Ms. Lauren Tanner, who worked for 12 Ms. Washkuhn at her firm. 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. She attaches a copy of the DMP P&L. 15 Q. And this is what you were requesting from Ms. Washkuhn? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Can you look on the 12th page -- is there an attachment? 18 A. There is. 19 Q. What is the attachment? 20 A. The attachment is the statement of assets and liabilities 21 and balance sheet and P&L for DMP. 22 Q. 23 net income? 24 A. Okay. 25 Q. What is recorded as the net income as of December 31, Okay. And what does she attach? Can you turn to the 12th page, which records the Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 344 of 580 Gates - Direct 1323 1 2015? 2 A. Net income is recorded as $400,744. 3 Q. Okay. 4 Can you turn to -MR. ANDRES: 5 BY MR. ANDRES: 6 Q. Can you turn to Government Exhibit 139? 7 8 MR. ANDRES: And this is also in evidence, Your Honor. 9 THE COURT: 10 BY MR. ANDRES: 11 Q. 139. 12 A. I do. 13 14 The Government moves -- oh, it's in. All right. Do you see that document, Mr. Gates? MR. ANDRES: May I publish it, Your Honor? May I publish it, Your Honor? 15 THE COURT: You may. 16 BY MR. ANDRES: 17 Q. Okay. 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. What is -- what is the document -- can you tell us who 20 it's from and summarize the document for the jury? 21 A. 22 Washkuhn. 23 Q. Okay. 24 A. And then I indicate to her that, based on my previous call 25 with Ms. Washkuhn, the revised P&L had not been updated to Sure. Can you look at the top e-mail here? It's from me to Lauren Tanner, copying Heather Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 345 of 580 Gates - Direct 1324 1 reflect the accrued income. 2 Q. Okay. 3 A. To help bolster Mr. Manafort's income number in that year 4 for the bank application. 5 Q. 6 Exhibit 298. And why were you trying to add the accrued income? Okay. And let me ask you to turn to Government 7 MR. ANDRES: 8 THE COURT: 9 10 That's admitted already, Your Honor. All right. BY MR. ANDRES: Q. What's included in Government Exhibit 298? 11 MR. ANDRES: 12 THE COURT: 13 THE WITNESS: May I publish it, Your Honor? You may. This is an e-mail on Mr. Manafort's 14 bankers at Banc of California that ultimately includes me, 15 copying Mr. Manafort and Mr. Yohai, and it attaches the 2015 16 P&L statement. 17 Q. 18 received from Lauren Tanner? 19 A. It does not. 20 Q. Can you take a look at the exhibit at 111, the Bates -- 21 Government Exhibit 298, Bates stamp 111. 22 A. Okay. 23 Q. And can I ask you to zoom in on the net income? Does it attach the copy of the P&L statement that you 24 25 What is the net income that's listed in this document? Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 346 of 580 Gates - Direct 1325 1 A. The net income is $4.45 million. 2 Q. And is that the same net income that -- or is that the 3 same document that you got from Ms. Washkuhn's firm? 4 A. No, it is not. 5 Q. And how is it different? 6 A. It's a -- it adds approximately $6 million of income. 7 Q. Who added that? 8 A. I did. 9 Q. And how did you come up with that figure? 10 A. That figure included the loan forgiveness of 1.5 million 11 from the Peranova loan, and then it included the accrued 12 revenue of 2.6 million as well. 13 Q. 14 earned? 15 A. It was actually earned around 2012. 16 Q. So did it belong in the 2015 P&L? 17 A. No. 18 Q. And with respect to the accrued interest, when did that 19 occur? 20 A. The accrued income occurred in 2014. 21 Q. And was it appropriate to add accrued interest into this 22 P&L? 23 A. No. 24 Q. Why not? 25 A. Because the books were on a cashier basis according to And with respect to the Peranova loan, when was that Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 347 of 580 Gates - Direct 1326 1 Ms. Washkuhn. 2 Q. 3 on March 16, 2016, to the Banc of California, was it accurate? 4 A. It was not. 5 Q. Was it false? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. With respect to how much in income was it false? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Okay. Was the document that you submitted attached to the e-mail Oh, how much? Approximately $6 million. Let me ask you, with respect to Citizens Bank, did 10 there come a time that Mr. Manafort applied for another loan at 11 Citizens Bank? 12 A. Yes, he did. 13 Q. Did that relate to the Union Street property? 14 A. It did. 15 Q. And was there an issue again with respect to the Peranova 16 loan? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Can I ask you to turn to Government Exhibit 169? 19 MR. ANDRES: 20 THE COURT: 21 MR. ANDRES: 22 THE COURT: This is already in evidence, Your Honor. All right. May I publish it? You may. 23 BY MR. ANDRES: 24 Q. What is included in Government Exhibit 169? 25 A. This is an e-mail string among David Fallarino, Cindy Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 348 of 580 Gates - Direct 1327 1 Laporta, Mr. Yohai, and Mr. Manafort in regards to information 2 that is needed for that second loan. 3 Q. Okay. 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And what did you understand the issue to be now as to the 6 second loan in Peranova? 7 A. 8 that the -- there was an issue with ordinary business income 9 and distribution income, and then also, again, there was an And are you included in the e-mail as well? Later I'm added to the e-mail. There are two issues. The first, as I understood, was 10 issue with the amount of income that Mr. Manafort had for that 11 given year. 12 Q. And what did the income have to equal? 13 A. Either kind of equal to or around the prior year. 14 Q. And why is that? 15 A. Because that's what was required by the bank in order to 16 obtain the loan. 17 Q. 18 was in 2014? 19 A. No. 20 Q. Why not? 21 A. Because DMP had no clients at that time. 22 Q. Can I ask you to turn to Government Exhibit 398? And in 2016, was DMP's income around or equal to what it 23 Can you tell me what that is? 24 A. Yes. This is an e-mail string including Ms. Laporta, 25 Mr. Manafort, and myself in regards to the income issue that Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 349 of 580 Gates - Direct 1328 1 Mr. Fallarino raised, and Ms. Laporta is going to begin the tax 2 preparation for that year, which is required by the bank for 3 the loan application, but the question that arises is the 4 income level. 5 that -- 6 Q. Let me just stop you there. 7 8 And I write an e-mail to Mr. Manafort indicating MR. ANDRES: Your Honor, may I move in Government Exhibit 398? 9 THE COURT: Yes, but let him finish his answer. 10 MR. ANDRES: Sorry. 11 THE WITNESS: Okay. And I indicated to Mr. Manafort 12 that we're not going to have anywhere near the 2014 income 13 level for 2016. 14 THE COURT: All right. 15 admissibility of that exhibit? Any objection to the 16 MR. DOWNING: 17 THE COURT: 18 (Government Exhibit No. 398 was received in 19 It's admitted. evidence.) 20 THE COURT: 21 MR. ANDRES: 22 THE COURT: 23 MR. ANDRES: 24 THE COURT: 25 No, Your Honor. Next question. May I publish it? I beg your pardon? May I publish it? You may. BY MR. ANDRES: Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 350 of 580 Gates - Direct 1 Q. 2 e-mail string. 1329 You testified that Cindy Laporta and others are on this 3 With respect to the top e-mail alone, who's on that 4 e-mail? 5 A. On that e-mail, it's just myself and Mr. Manafort. 6 Q. Okay. 7 e-mail? 8 A. 9 to the income level of 2014. And what are you informing Mr. Manafort in this I'm informing him that we're not even going to come close 10 Q. And, again, why is that? 11 A. Because DMP at that time has no clients. 12 Q. Can I ask you to turn to Government Exhibit 377? 13 Can you tell me what that is? 14 A. This is an e-mail chain between myself and Mr. Manafort. 15 Q. Okay. 16 A. It does. 17 Q. Is there a response to the e-mail in the prior exhibit? 18 A. Yes. And it relates to the Citizens Union loan? 19 MR. ANDRES: 20 MR. DOWNING: 21 THE COURT: 22 (Government Exhibit No. 377 was received in 23 The Government moves to admit 377. No objection. It's admitted. evidence.) 24 MR. ANDRES: 25 THE COURT: Can I publish it? You may. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 351 of 580 Gates - Direct 1330 1 BY MR. ANDRES: 2 Q. 3 to your -- your concerns about the level of income? 4 A. He does. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. Yes. 7 e-mail that there was no way that he would have the 2015 tax 8 filing before October. 9 from Ukraine approximately 2.5 million. With respect to the top e-mail, does Mr. Manafort respond Can you read that e-mail at the top? (As read): "Let's talk around 9 a.m. I sent him an We can count the account receivables Send me the P&L that 10 we used for the other refis before we speak." 11 Q. 12 receivable? 13 A. 14 2014 that had not been paid for that contract. 15 Q. And it didn't relate to the 2015 P&L? 16 A. It did not. 17 Q. Can I ask you to turn to Government Exhibit 400? Okay. And, again, the reference to the accounts That's the reference to the money that had been earned in 18 Can you tell me what this is? 19 A. 20 Mr. Fallarino with regards to a number of documents that need 21 to be pulled together for the loan. 22 23 Yes. This is an e-mail response from Mr. Manafort to MR. ANDRES: The Government seeks to admit Government Exhibit 400. 24 MR. DOWNING: 25 THE COURT: No objection. Admitted. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 352 of 580 Gates - Direct 1 2 1331 (Government Exhibit No. 400 was received in evidence.) 3 MR. ANDRES: 4 THE COURT: May I publish it? Yes. 5 BY MR. ANDRES: 6 Q. 7 Mr. Manafort write to David Fallarino? 8 A. 9 Among other responsibilities Rick manages the company and my With respect to the top e-mail, Mr. Gates, what does (As read): "David, I have asked Rick Gates to call you. 10 personal assets. 11 Q. 12 company? 13 A. I was doing a lot of the administrative day-to-day items. 14 Q. How about his personal assets? 15 A. No. 16 Q. Did you ever have any control over his personal assets? 17 A. No. 18 Q. Okay. 19 on gathering information for the bank? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. If you look below, there's an e-mail from Mr. Fallarino to 22 Mr. Manafort. 23 A. I do. 24 Q. Can you read the first paragraph? 25 A. (As read): "Without using 2015 taxes, we will have to get Okay. He will work with you to get what you need." At this time were you managing Mr. Manafort's With respect to this loan, do you continue to work Do you see that? Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 353 of 580 Gates - Direct 1332 1 creative in terms of income (The K1 income versus distributed 2 income on the DMP returns knocks us down significantly)." 3 Q. And who's writing that e-mail? 4 A. Mr. Fallarino. 5 Q. And where does he work? 6 A. Citizens Bank. 7 Q. Okay. 8 with respect to Cindy Laporta? 9 A. And then what does he say in the second paragraph (As read): "I will get a letter from Cindy stating that 10 the 2015 K-1 income will be equal to the distribution income." 11 Q. Can I ask you to take a look at Government Exhibit 173? 12 Can you tell me what that is? 13 A. Yes. This is the letter that Mr. Manafort asked me to 14 draft and send to Cindy in regards to the ordinary versus 15 distribution income. 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. It does. 18 Q. And this is a different loan application now? 19 A. Correct. 20 Q. Okay. And this, again, relates to the Peranova loan? 21 MR. ANDRES: 22 evidence, Your Honor. 23 THE COURT: 24 MR. ANDRES: 25 THE COURT: And the Government -- this is in All right. Can I publish it? Yes. Has it already been -- we're not Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 354 of 580 Gates - Direct 1333 1 reviewing testimony you've already elicited from someone else, 2 are we? 3 MR. ANDRES: I believe Ms. Laporta may have testified 4 to several facts that Mr. Gates has his own information about 5 the loan. 6 THE COURT: All right. Proceed. 7 BY MR. ANDRES: 8 Q. Can you summarize this e-mail for the jury? 9 A. Yes. This is a draft letter that I sent to Ms. Laporta in 10 order to fulfill Mr. Fallarino's request. 11 Q. 12 letter? Okay. 13 And what does the letter -- can I turn to the What can you tell me about the letter? 14 A. 15 forgiveness can be counted in the income of DMP. 16 Q. And did you send that letter to Ms. Laporta? 17 A. I did. 18 Q. And what did she do with it? 19 A. She, in the end, actually rewrote the letter and then sent 20 it to Mr. Fallarino. 21 Yes. The purpose of the letter is to attest that the loan MR. ANDRES: Can I focus on the second-to-last line? 22 Q. With respect to the line for the tax year 2015, is that 23 the part of the letter which Ms. Laporta changed? 24 A. 25 she changed. She changed more than just that, but, yes, that's one area Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 355 of 580 Gates - Direct 1334 1 Q. She revised the letter? 2 A. She did. 3 Q. Okay. 4 Can you take a look at Government Exhibit 403? Can you tell me what that is? 5 A. Again, it's an e-mail chain initially starting with 6 Mr. Fallarino and Mr. Manafort, indicating that the letter has 7 been attached. 8 Q. Okay. 9 A. Yes. 10 11 And it's now been changed? MR. ANDRES: The Government moves to admit Government Exhibit 403. 12 MR. DOWNING: No objection. 13 THE COURT: 14 (Government Exhibit No. 403 was received in Admitted. 15 evidence.) 16 BY MR. ANDRES: 17 Q. With respect to the top e-mail, who wrote the top e-mail? 18 A. Mr. Fallarino. 19 Q. The top e-mail at 5-6-2016? 20 A. 5-6-2016. 21 Q. Do you have Exhibit 403? 22 A. 403, yes. 23 from Mr. Manafort. 24 Q. 25 Okay. I have to Mr. Fallarino, copying Ms. Rodriguez, And can you read that e-mail? MR. ANDRES: May I publish this, Your Honor? Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 356 of 580 Gates - Direct 1 THE COURT: 2 MR. ANDRES: 1335 Yes. Focus on the top e-mail. 3 BY MR. ANDRES: 4 Q. Who's writing that e-mail? 5 A. Mr. Manafort is. 6 Q. And what does he say? 7 A. (As read): "Rick, please deal with Fallarino regarding the 8 change he needs in Laporta letter due this morning." 9 Q. Okay. 10 A. Seek the change in the letter that he requested. 11 Q. And does that letter provide accurate information to the 12 bank? 13 A. No, it does not. 14 Q. How is it inaccurate? 15 A. It states that I think Mr. Manafort's primary address is 16 different than the one they used. 17 Q. 18 that letter accurate? 19 A. 20 income in the letter for that year. 21 Q. 22 Exhibit 174? 23 And Mr. Manafort is asking you to do what? But in terms of the letter from Cindy Laporta, what -- was Yes. She includes the Peranova income in the ordinary Okay. And can I ask you to turn to Government What is that? 24 A. This is the letter that Ms. Laporta wrote and sent to 25 Mr. Fallarino. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 357 of 580 Gates - Direct 1 MR. ANDRES: 2 THE COURT: 1336 This is already in evidence, Your Honor. All right. 3 BY MR. ANDRES: 4 Q. 5 is that right? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Mr. -- was Mr. Manafort updated as to each and every 8 effort with respect to that letter? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And then it's sent to the bank? 11 A. It is. 12 Q. And when it's sent to the bank, who sends it to the bank? 13 A. Ms. Laporta sends it to the bank. 14 Q. Can I ask you now to turn to Government Exhibit 405? So you've been through the process of revising the letter; 15 Can you tell me what Government Exhibit 405 is? 16 A. Yes. 17 Ms. Laporta, Ms. Washkuhn, later copying me on the -- asking 18 for them to send Mr. Manafort the 2015 P&L. 19 20 It's an e-mail exchange among Mr. Manafort, MR. ANDRES: Your Honor, the Government moves to admit 405. 21 MR. DOWNING: 22 THE COURT: 23 (Government Exhibit No. 405 was received in 24 25 No objection. Admitted. evidence.) MR. ANDRES: May I publish it? Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 358 of 580 Gates - Direct 1 1337 THE COURT: 2 BY MR. ANDRES: 3 Q. Yes, you may. And can I focus on the top e-mail? 4 With respect to the document, you said that 5 Mr. Manafort is seeking the P&L. Do you see on the top e-mail 6 what -- what the date of the P&L is? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And in the top e-mail, does Mr. Manafort make a request of 9 you? It's July 31, 2016. 10 A. He does. 11 Q. What does he say? 12 A. He asked me: 13 Word document? 14 Q. 15 Ms. Washkuhn's firm, what form does it come in? 16 A. It comes in a PDF format. 17 Q. When Mr. Manafort said, "How do I convert into non-PDF 18 Word document," what did you understand that to mean? 19 A. 20 for his use. 21 Q. 22 How do I convert the PDF document into a And as you understand it, when the P&L comes from That he wanted me to convert it from PDF to a Word format Can you take a look at Government Exhibit 407? What is this e-mail? 23 A. 24 respond to Mr. Manafort's e-mail about the document conversion. 25 This is a follow-on e-mail to the previous one in which I MR. ANDRES: Okay. The Government moves to admit Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 359 of 580 Gates - Direct 1 1338 407, Your Honor. 2 MR. DOWNING: 3 THE COURT: 4 (Government Exhibit No. 407 was received in 5 No objection. Admitted. evidence.) 6 MR. ANDRES: 7 THE COURT: 8 BY MR. ANDRES: 9 Q. May I publish it? Yes, you may. Can I focus on the middle e-mail? 10 When Mr. Manafort writes, "How do I convert into 11 non-PDF Word document," what do you respond? 12 A. I respond that I can do it and will send to him. 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. 2:01 p.m. 15 Q. And then did Mr. Manafort inquire again? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And what did you say? 18 A. I said, "About 15 minutes. 19 Q. Okay. 20 to at this point? 21 A. In Richmond. 22 Q. Did you ultimately convert this document into a non-PDF? 23 A. I did. 24 Q. And when Mr. Manafort says "non-PDF," what do you 25 understand that to mean? And what time did you respond to that? Almost home." And when you say "almost home," where are you going Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 360 of 580 Gates - Direct 1339 1 A. 2 of change to it. 3 Q. 4 type of document? 5 A. Into a Word document. 6 Q. Okay. 7 A. Yes, correct. 8 Q. Can I ask you to take a look at Government Exhibit 408? 9 A. Okay. 10 Q. What is contained in Government Exhibit 408? 11 A. This is the 2016 P&L document that I convert from a PDF to 12 a Microsoft Word document and send to Mr. Manafort. 13 Q. This is the original document Mr. Manafort sent to you? 14 A. It is. 15 Q. Okay. 16 Word or a word processing document, what, if anything, happens 17 to it? 18 A. 19 fonts and graphics used, the alignments can be messed up when 20 you convert the document. 21 to symbols. 22 23 Understand that to mean that he is going to make some sort Okay. You're going to convert it into what form or what And that's a word processing-related application? And when you convert a document from a PDF to a In often cases, depending on the complexity of the various MR. ANDRES: Also, some of the numbers can change Your Honor, the Government moves to admit Government Exhibit 408 and asks to publish it. 24 MR. DOWNING: 25 THE COURT: No objection. Admitted. You may do so. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 361 of 580 Gates - Direct 1 1340 (Government Exhibit No. 408 was received in 2 evidence.) 3 BY MR. ANDRES: 4 Q. Focusing on the first e-mail, who is the e-mail from? 5 A. The e-mail is from me. 6 Q. From who? 7 A. From me to Mr. Manafort. 8 Q. And what's attached? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Okay. 11 and numbers mixed together. 12 A. 13 document format. 14 Q. 15 here at all? 16 A. No. 17 Q. So when you look at the net income or loss, what was the 18 net income or loss of the document when you sent it to 19 Mr. Manafort? 20 A. The net loss was $638,000. 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And in what version is it in? 24 A. Word document. 25 Q. Can I ask you to take a look at Government Exhibit 409? Can I show you the first attachment? The attachment is the July 31, 2016, P&L statement. And there are various parentheses and other letters What's that a result of? That's a result of converting it from a PDF to a Word When you look at the net -- have you changed the numbers And then this is the document sent to Mr. Manafort? Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 362 of 580 Gates - Direct 1 1341 What is that? 2 A. This is an e-mail to me from Mr. Manafort in regards to a 3 revised P&L he has attached. 4 Q. 5 he means by that? 6 A. 7 income number. And when he says revised P&L, what do -- what do you think When I saw the document, I saw that he had changed the 8 MR. ANDRES: 9 MR. DOWNING: The Government moves to admit 409. No objection. 10 THE COURT: 11 (Government Exhibit No. 409 was received in 12 Admitted. evidence.) 13 MR. ANDRES: 14 THE COURT: May I publish it? Yes, you may. 15 BY MR. ANDRES: 16 Q. 17 writes in all caps, what is he conveying to you? 18 A. 19 discuss this and other matters. 20 Q. Okay. In terms of the first document, when Mr. Manafort That he's attached the revised P&L and to call him and Okay. And can you turn to the next page? 21 And can you focus on net income? 22 What is listed as the net income? 23 A. Net income is $3 million. 24 Q. Okay. 25 A. It is. And is the format of the document different? Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 363 of 580 Gates - Direct Okay. 1342 1 Q. 2 have any clients? 3 A. It did not. 4 Q. Were they making any money? 5 A. No. 6 Q. Was the number that Mr. Manafort included there, was it 7 accurate? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Was it off by how much money approximately? 10 A. About 4.2 million. 11 Q. Okay. 12 And as of September of 2016, did DMP International Can I ask you to turn to Government Exhibit 406? Can you tell me what's included in Government 13 Exhibit 406? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And -- 16 A. Asking to convert the document and send to him. 17 18 It's an e-mail from Mr. Manafort to me. MR. ANDRES: The Government moves to admit Government Exhibit 406 and seeks to publish it. 19 MR. DOWNING: 20 THE COURT: 21 No objection. You may -- yes, it's admitted. You may do so. 22 (Government Exhibit No. 406 was received in 23 evidence.) 24 BY MR. ANDRES: 25 Q. With respect to the top e-mail, who's that from? Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 364 of 580 Gates - Direct 1343 1 A. Mr. Manafort. 2 Q. What does he ask you to do? 3 A. He's asking me to convert the PDF -- convert the document 4 to a PDF and send to him. 5 Q. And what's attached? 6 A. Attached is the 2016 P&L statement that he modified. 7 Q. Okay. 8 in the attachment? 9 A. Net income is 3 million. 10 Q. Okay. 11 International's P&L as of September 2016? 12 A. It is not. 13 Q. I'm going to ask you to turn to page 411 -- Exhibit 411, 14 excuse me, Government Exhibit 411. 15 What is that? And with respect to the net income, what's listed And is that an accurate statement of DMP 16 A. It's an e-mail to Mr. Manafort from me, reconverting the 17 document and sending to him. 18 Q. Okay. 19 A. Yes. 20 21 And this also contains the false P&L? MR. ANDRES: Your Honor, the Government moves to admit Government Exhibit 40- -- sorry, Government Exhibit 411. 22 MR. DOWNING: 23 THE COURT: 24 (Government Exhibit No. 411 was received in 25 No objection. Admitted. evidence.) Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 365 of 580 Gates - Direct 1 MR. ANDRES: 2 THE COURT: 3 1344 Can I publish it? Yes. You need to -- I assume you need to do so. 4 MR. ANDRES: 5 THE COURT: Yes, Judge, I'm -All right. 6 BY MR. ANDRES: 7 Q. 8 page and identify the net income? 9 A. Net income is 3 million. 10 Q. Okay. Proceed. With respect to the document, can you turn to the second 11 You can take that down. Mr. Gates, you testified that you were arrested in 12 October of what year? 13 A. 2017. 14 Q. Okay. 15 aware of the fact that you were under investigation? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Had you received subpoenas and other requests for 18 documents? 19 A. I did. 20 Q. Did you receive a subpoena for your overseas bank records? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And did you make a production of those documents? 23 A. I did. 24 Q. Okay. 25 Mr. Manafort about those -- about that production or the Prior to the time that you were arrested, were you At some point, did you have a conversation with Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 366 of 580 Gates - Direct 1345 1 overseas bank records? 2 A. I did. 3 Q. What, if anything, did he tell you? 4 A. Mr. Manafort indicated to me that he wasn't sure why I was 5 being dragged into the investigation and indicated that he 6 would have a representative signify that I had no ownership or 7 control over those, that I was an employee of DMP and had no 8 ability to have control over those accounts. 9 Q. During the time that you worked for Mr. Manafort, did you 10 delete your e-mails from time to time? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. In what instances did you delete your e-mails? 13 A. I mean, typically, I tried to do a purge of e-mails, you 14 know, throughout the year, just given the volume of e-mails I 15 typically received. 16 Q. 17 they -- the Government or other entities wouldn't find out 18 about them? 19 A. Yes, there was one instance. 20 Q. Okay. 21 Mr. Manafort, did you ever use encrypted applications? 22 A. We did. 23 Q. What are encrypted applications? 24 A. Well, encrypted applications are supposed to protect the 25 communications between two individuals. Were there instances where you deleted e-mails so that During the time that you communicated with Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 367 of 580 Gates - Direct 1346 1 Q. Okay. Did you frequently use those applications? 2 A. I would say so in the later years, yes. 3 Q. And what are some of the encrypted applications that you 4 used? 5 A. 6 had used an application called Box at one point. 7 Q. 8 the Trump campaign; is that correct? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Approximately, when was that? 11 A. March of 2016. 12 Q. And was Mr. Manafort also working for the Trump campaign? 13 A. He was. 14 Q. What was his position? 15 A. At that moment, he was the convention manager. 16 Q. And did he later have a different position? 17 A. He did. 18 Q. Okay. 19 A. He ultimately became chairman of the campaign. 20 Q. Do you know, did there come a point when Mr. Manafort left 21 the campaign? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Approximately, when was that? 24 A. It was in late August. 25 Q. And did you continue on? Signal, Viber, I think were the primary two. I think we You testified that at some point, you began working for What position? Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 368 of 580 Gates - Direct 1347 1 A. I did. 2 Q. Okay. 3 another job with respect to the administration? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. What was it? 6 A. Following the campaign, I went to work for the 7 inauguration. 8 Q. Okay. 9 A. Okay. 10 Q. Can you tell me what Government Exhibit 397 is? 11 A. Yes. 12 in regards to an economic advisory council that we're putting 13 together. 14 Q. 15 campaign? 16 A. That's correct. 17 Q. Okay. 18 says 3 of 66? 19 A. Okay. 20 Q. Is there an individual named Stephen Calk listed? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Okay. 23 A. To the economic advisory council for the campaign. 24 Q. And do you know if he ultimately was on that? 25 A. I believe he was. Okay. After your work on the campaign, did you have Let me ask you to look at Government Exhibit 397. It's an e-mail exchange among a number of the staff And that's economic advisory council for the Trump Can I just focus you on the page, at the bottom it And what is he being nominated to? Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 369 of 580 Gates - Direct 1 Q. Okay. 2 1348 Can I ask you to turn to Government Exhibit 399? Do you see that? 3 A. I do. 4 Q. What is Government Exhibit 399? 5 A. It's an e-mail from Mr. Manafort to me in regards to 6 Mr. Calk. 7 Q. Okay. 8 9 MR. ANDRES: Exhibit 399. 10 11 The Government moves to admit Government MR. DOWNING: Your Honor, could I have a moment, please? 12 THE COURT: 13 MR. DOWNING: Yes. I don't have that exhibit available to 14 me. I think it was produced electronically this morning. 15 could have a copy, I'll take a quick look at it. 16 THE COURT: 17 MR. DOWNING: 18 MR. ANDRES: 19 It was produced when? This morning. I don't think it -- I don't want to respond, Your Honor, but I'm happy to -- Kevin? 20 MR. DOWNING: 21 No objection. 22 THE COURT: 23 (Government Exhibit No. 399 was received in 24 25 If I Oh, do you have a copy? All right. Thank you. It's admitted. evidence.) MR. ANDRES: May I publish it, Your Honor? Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 370 of 580 Gates - Direct 1 THE COURT: 2 MR. ANDRES: 1349 Yes. 399. I'm going to use the ELMO, Your 3 Honor. 4 BY MR. ANDRES: 5 Q. Mr. Gates, who's this e-mail from? 6 A. From Mr. Manafort. 7 Q. And who is it to? 8 A. To me. 9 Q. And what's the date? 10 A. November 24, 2016. 11 Q. On November 24, 2016, where were you working? 12 A. I was working for the presidential inaugural committee. 13 Q. And where was Mr. Manafort working? 14 A. I don't know. 15 Q. And can you read that e-mail? 16 A. "Rick, we need to discuss Steve Calk for Secretary of 17 Army. 18 Q. 19 on the economic council? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Can I ask you to turn to Government Exhibit 402? I hear the list is being considered this weekend." Is that the same Steve Calk who was previously identified 22 Do you see that? 23 A. I do. 24 Q. What is that? 25 A. It's an e-mail from Mr. Manafort to me in regards to a Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 371 of 580 Gates - Direct 1 list. 2 3 1350 MR. ANDRES: And the Government moves to admit Government Exhibit 402. 4 Can you pass that? 5 THE COURT: 6 may not have seen? 7 MR. ANDRES: 8 THE COURT: 9 10 How many more of these are there that he I think this is the last one, Judge. I take it all of this relates to a person who had some contact with the bank these loans were being applied for? 11 MR. ANDRES: 12 THE COURT: 13 MR. DOWNING: 14 THE COURT: 15 (Government Exhibit No. 402 was received in 16 That's correct, Your Honor. All right. No objection. All right. It's admitted. evidence.) 17 MR. ANDRES: 18 THE COURT: May I publish it, Your Honor? Yes. 19 BY MR. ANDRES: 20 Q. 21 what's the date of that e-mail? 22 A. December 23, 2016. 23 Q. And who's it from? 24 A. Mr. Manafort. 25 Q. And who is it to? With respect to the e-mail in Government Exhibit 402, Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 372 of 580 Gates - Direct 1351 1 A. To me. 2 Q. And what does it pertain to? 3 A. It pertains to individuals that Mr. Manafort would like to 4 invite to the inauguration. 5 Q. And where were you working at the time? 6 A. At the inaugural committee. 7 Q. Okay. 8 A. I don't know. 9 Q. If you turn to the last page of that, 15 of 26 -- 10 And how about Mr. Manafort? actually, the second-to-last page, excuse me, 14 of 26. 11 Second from the bottom, can you read the name there? 12 A. Yes. Stephen Calk and Stephen Calk, Jr. 13 Q. And was Mr. Manafort asking for tickets to the 14 inauguration for Stephen Calk? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Okay. You can take that down. 17 Mr. Gates, you've testified at various times that 18 Mr. Manafort had season tickets to the New York Yankees; is 19 that correct? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Okay. 22 season ticket holder? 23 A. From at least the time I was there in 2006 to 2016. 24 Q. Okay. 25 for those tickets? And over what period of time was Mr. Manafort a Did there come a time when he had difficulty paying Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 373 of 580 Gates - Direct 1352 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Approximately, when was that? 3 A. In 2016. 4 Q. Did he task you with -- do you -- did he task you with -- 5 THE COURT: What, if anything, did he task you with, 6 with respect to the tickets? 7 BY MR. ANDRES: 8 Q. What, if anything, did he -- 9 THE COURT: 10 11 That means it's not leading. MR. ANDRES: I -- that's a great question, Judge. Thanks. 12 (Laughter.) 13 14 THE COURT: Now, if they only paid me as much as they pay you. 15 (Laughter.) 16 THE COURT: Next. Go ahead. 17 BY MR. ANDRES: 18 Q. 19 respect to the tickets? 20 A. 21 campaign at the time, and it was very, you know, work 22 intensive. 23 attributed the cost of the Yankees tickets to me instead of 24 him. 25 Q. What, if anything, did Mr. Manafort ask you to do with He asked me to do him a favor. Okay. I was still on the So he asked me to sign a letter for him that And did it -- did the letter make a reference to Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 374 of 580 Gates - Direct 1353 1 borrowing his credit card? 2 A. It did, I believe, yes. 3 Q. Okay. 4 buy Yankees tickets? 5 A. No. 6 Q. Did you ever purchase Yankees tickets, season Yankees 7 tickets for yourself? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Okay. Did you ever borrow Mr. Manafort's credit card to Were you previously involved in helping to resolve 10 the payment issue? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Okay. 13 Exhibit 393. 14 I'm going to ask you to turn to Government Can you tell me what that is? 15 A. Yes. 16 received from the New York Yankees in regards to the payment 17 for his accounts. 18 19 This is an e-mail that Mr. Manafort originally MR. ANDRES: Your Honor, the Government moves to admit Government Exhibit 393. 20 MR. DOWNING: 21 THE COURT: 22 (Government Exhibit No. 393 was received in 23 No objection. All right. It's admitted. evidence.) 24 MR. ANDRES: 25 THE COURT: May I publish it? Is it necessary? We're going to get this Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 375 of 580 Gates - Direct 1 finished soon. 2 MR. ANDRES: 3 THE COURT: 4 It's the last document, Your Honor. All right. And what does this document that you want to publish show that isn't already in evidence? 5 6 1354 MR. ANDRES: It shows the issue with respect to the payment plan and the communications with the New York Yankees. 7 THE COURT: 8 MR. ANDRES: 9 THE COURT: 10 MR. ANDRES: Didn't he already testify to that? Not to the specifics. All right. Go ahead, publish it. Thank you, Your Honor. 11 BY MR. ANDRES: 12 Q. 13 Exhibit 393? 14 A. 15 Mr. Manafort's payment for season tickets. 16 Q. 17 the payment was that was owed? 18 A. 19 in kind of the 210- to $225,000 range. 20 Q. 21 credit card for Mr. Manafort? 22 A. It was. 23 Q. And was that credit card paid on time? 24 A. Not at that time. 25 Mr. Gates, can you tell me what's described in Government Yes. It's an e-mail from the New York Yankees regarding And do you know approximately what the debt was or what I believe at the time, the Yankees tickets usually ranged And was that -- was that money assessed to a particular MR. ANDRES: Your Honor, may I have one moment? Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 376 of 580 Gates - Direct 1 THE COURT: 1355 Yes. 2 BY MR. ANDRES: 3 Q. 4 Government promised to write you a 5K letter; is that correct? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Has that letter been written yet? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Have you been sentenced yet? 9 A. No. 10 Q. As you sit here today, do you know what your sentence is 11 going to be? 12 A. Mr. Gates, you testified that in your plea agreement, the I do not. 13 MR. ANDRES: 14 THE COURT: 15 I have no further questions, Your Honor. But in addition, did the Government promise to seek or not to object to a request for probation? 16 THE WITNESS: 17 THE COURT: 18 MR. ANDRES: 19 THE COURT: 20 21 It did. Anything else? No, Judge. All right. I'm going to take a recess so you -- give you an opportunity, Mr. Downing. Pass your books to the right, ladies and gentlemen. 22 The court security officer will collect them, maintain their 23 security during the recess, and we will recess until quarter -- 24 quarter of three give you enough time, Mr. Downing? 25 MR. DOWNING: Thank you, Your Honor. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 377 of 580 1356 1 2 THE COURT: All right. If you need longer, tell Mr. Flood. 3 MR. DOWNING: 4 THE COURT: 5 Quarter of three. I will. And I expect you to use any extra time to focus sharply your cross-examination. 6 MR. DOWNING: 7 THE COURT: Understood. All right. Remember to refrain from 8 discussing the matter among yourselves or with anyone or 9 undertaking any investigation. 10 Soft drinks are available back there. 11 (Jury out.) 12 THE COURT: 13 Court stands in recess. (Recess from 2:25 p.m., until 3:07 p.m.) 14 (Defendant present, Jury out.) 15 16 Follow Mr. Flood out. THE COURT: All right. Mr. Downing, have you had enough time? 17 MR. DOWNING: 18 THE COURT: I have, Your Honor. All right. Thank you. Let me ask something because 19 I want to see if I can forestall any objections or resolve them 20 first. 21 got from this deal with the Government, that is, what he 22 avoided? Do you intend to examine Mr. Gates on what benefits he 23 MR. DOWNING: 24 THE COURT: 25 Yes. So I take it you intend -- as I understand it, he pled guilty to charges in Washington, not Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 378 of 580 1357 1 here. 2 MR. DOWNING: 3 THE COURT: 4 Correct. But the charges against him here were dismissed as a result of that deal. 5 MR. DOWNING: 6 THE COURT: Correct. Do you intend to go over the charges here 7 that are no longer against him and what -- how many years he 8 faced for all those? 9 MR. DOWNING: 10 THE COURT: I do. And that's -- Mr. Andres, that's 11 perfectly appropriate, isn't it? 12 MR. ANDRES: 13 THE COURT: Perfectly. 14 All right. (Laughter.) 15 16 THE COURT: parts of this case not to do that. 17 18 Because you've made judgments in other MR. DOWNING: I did, Your Honor. One other issue I'd like to address with the Court 20 beforehand: 21 sidebar? There was a motion -- oh, we need to do that 22 MR. ANDRES: 23 MR. DOWNING: 25 Or we did. 19 24 That's correct. Yes. The Government would like a sidebar to talk about it. THE COURT: All right. You may do that. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 379 of 580 1358 1 (Bench conference on the record.) 2 THE COURT: 3 MR. DOWNING: 4 The government raised an issue about if we were going to question -- 5 6 Yes, sir. THE COURT: I'm sorry, if you-all could step back a bit? 7 MR. DOWNING: 8 THE COURT: 9 If we were to -My mother smoked when she was pregnant, or I'd be as tall as you are. 10 Go ahead. 11 MR. DOWNING: My father was six-one. The government raised an issue whether 12 or not we were going to cross-examine Mr. Gates about specific 13 acts of marital infidelity. 14 we plan on questioning him about what we call his, you know, 15 separate secret life and how -- 16 THE COURT: 17 MR. DOWNING: 18 THE COURT: 19 MR. DOWNING: We don't plan on doing that, but Whose separate secret life? Mr. Gates. Oh. And how it relates to money he had 20 stolen, embezzled, and things that he was doing, but 21 specifically as to infidelity, we do not think we're going to 22 get into that. 23 24 25 THE COURT: All right. And is there anything for me to consider and decide in that regard? MR. ANDRES: No. I believe that the issue that we Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 380 of 580 1359 1 raised originally, Judge, was that the Fourth Circuit has held 2 that if somebody cheats on their wife or whatever, it's not 3 necessarily indicative of truthfulness. 4 indicated he's not going to go there, and so we don't have any 5 issue. 6 MR. DOWNING: 7 THE COURT: 8 MR. DOWNING: 9 Mr. Downing has Well, I want to be clear. Yeah, I -We're not going to go into specific acts of infidelity, but we are definitely implying that he was 10 leading a separate secret life from Mr. Manafort and from 11 others. 12 THE COURT: Well, if that's -- am I right that what 13 you're thinking of doing is you're thinking of showing that he 14 needed money -- 15 MR. DOWNING: Yes. 16 THE COURT: 17 wasn't his for another purpose? 18 MR. DOWNING: 19 THE COURT: -- and therefore he took money that 20 21 Yes. I don't see anything wrong with that. Do you, Mr. Andres? MR. ANDRES: Yeah, just as long as there's not some 22 suggestion he's spending that money on things that are, that 23 are, you know, would somehow suggest marital infidelity. 24 MR. DOWNING: 25 MR. ANDRES: Well, I think -I mean, I don't know how that's Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 381 of 580 1360 1 appropriate. 2 spending his money, but he's got to answer yes to those 3 questions in the first place. 4 putting that aside -- 5 6 They can ask whatever they want about how he's THE COURT: I don't know that he will, but You're not going to ask him directly whether he was faithful to his wife? 7 MR. DOWNING: Correct, but I will ask him about 8 keeping an apartment in London and going to fancy restaurants 9 and staying in fancy hotels, stuff like that, but no, I'm not 10 going to ask him about a specific act of infidelity. 11 THE COURT: 12 MR. DOWNING: 13 THE COURT: 14 And so he needed money. Correct. And you're going to establish or try to establish that he stole money from Manafort for that purpose. 15 MR. DOWNING: 16 THE COURT: 17 MR. ANDRES: 18 THE COURT: 19 Yes, Your Honor. It seems to me perfectly appropriate. Totally agree, Judge. All right. Anything else we need to discuss? 20 MR. ANDRES: 21 MR. DOWNING: 22 THE COURT: 23 (End of bench conference.) 24 THE COURT: 25 No, Judge. Thank you. Thank you. All right. All right. Let's go. Let's have Mr. Gates return, please. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 382 of 580 Gates - Cross 1 1361 Oh, she's wonderful. She's a jewel. 2 Ms. Pham, I would fall on my face every day. 3 in. 4 THE COURT: I just told her supervisor this morning that she's a jewel. 7 (Jury present.) 8 9 Bring the jury (Laughter.) 5 6 Without THE COURT: All right. You may be seated. Thank you for your patience, ladies and gentlemen, but I assure you it 10 was necessary. Neither side objected and neither side was 11 responsible for this delay. It's necessary to do it. 12 All right. 13 Mr. Gates, you'll recall, sir, that you remain under 14 Now, I'll have Mr. Gates return. oath. 15 THE WITNESS: 16 THE COURT: 17 And, Mr. Downing, you may begin your 18 Yes, sir. You may resume the stand. cross-examination. 19 MR. DOWNING: 20 Thank you, Your Honor. CROSS-EXAMINATION 21 BY MR. DOWNING: 22 Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Gates. 23 A. Good afternoon. 24 Q. I think, as you know, I represent Mr. Manafort, and we're 25 here to ask you some questions about events leading up to your Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 383 of 580 Gates - Cross 1362 1 testimony here today and your 20-some-odd interviews with the 2 Office of Special Counsel on the way here. 3 THE COURT: You'll have to speak up just a bit, 4 Mr. Downing, for my benefit. 5 BY MR. DOWNING: 6 Q. 7 of this year? Mr. Gates, why don't we go back to the period of January 8 9 You had occasion to sit down with your lawyer in the Office of Special Counsel to discuss matters surrounding this 10 case? 11 A. I did. 12 Q. And did you meet on more than one occasion with the Office 13 of Special Counsel before entering into a plea agreement? 14 A. We did. 15 Q. Did you meet approximately three or four times before you 16 entered your plea? 17 A. Yes, I'd say that's accurate. 18 Q. And during the three or four times that you met with the 19 Office of Special Counsel, did you provide to them false and 20 misleading information? 21 A. Not at that time, no. 22 Q. Not at that time. 23 A. No. 24 Q. Do you recall when you first started giving false and 25 misleading information to the Office of Special Counsel? Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 384 of 580 Gates - Cross 1 A. 2 plea agreement. 3 Q. I was charged with a second count that was prior to the The second count was prior to the plea agreement? 4 5 1363 THE COURT: question. 6 I don't think that was responsive to his Re-ask your question. THE WITNESS: Can you repeat the question, please? 7 BY MR. DOWNING: 8 Q. 9 information to the Office of Special Counsel? When did you first start providing false and misleading 10 A. I didn't provide false and misleading information to the 11 Special Counsel's office. 12 Q. 13 plead guilty to providing false information to the Office of 14 Special Counsel? 15 A. And then why did the Office of Special Counsel have you Under the one instance I did. 16 THE COURT: 17 THE WITNESS: 18 THE COURT: 19 I'm sorry, I didn't hear you. Under the one instance I did. Well, so previously, you said you didn't provide false information. 20 THE WITNESS: That's correct. Your Honor, my 21 information leading up to the one count, up to that point, I 22 had not provided false and misleading information. 23 THE COURT: 24 BY MR. DOWNING: 25 Q. Next question. So just to get an idea of timeframe, you pled in February Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 385 of 580 Gates - Cross 1364 1 of this year? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And you met with the Special Counsel starting in late 4 January of this year? 5 A. I believe that's correct. 6 Q. And prior to you entering your plea, when did you provide 7 false and misleading information to the Government? 8 A. 9 interviews, certainly recalling details and facts about various There were instances where I struggled with the 10 questions that the Special Counsel asked. 11 question that I struggled to -- to get all the information out. 12 Q. 13 saying you knowingly, intentionally provided false and 14 misleading information. 15 that correct? 16 A. 17 18 So it sounds to me, as you sit here today, you're not THE COURT: But I thought you said you pled guilty to providing false information? THE WITNESS: 20 THE COURT: 21 bad memory. 22 just a bad memory? 24 25 You just had a bad recollection; is To some extent, yes. 19 23 So there's no I did, Your Honor, to one count. All right. You just said you just had a Did you provide false information or did you have THE WITNESS: Your Honor, I provided false information to the Special Counsel prior to my plea agreement. THE COURT: Next question. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 386 of 580 Gates - Cross 1365 1 BY MR. DOWNING: 2 Q. Prior to your plea agreement? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. But not after your plea agreement? 5 A. No. 6 Q. And how many times did you meet with the Office of Special 7 Counsel after you entered into your plea agreement? 8 A. Approximately 20 times. 9 Q. Now, do you know how the Office of Special Counsel found 10 out that you had provided false and misleading information to 11 them? 12 A. No, I do not. 13 Q. Were you confronted by the Office of Special Counsel in an 14 interview about providing false and misleading information? 15 A. I was. 16 Q. And who confronted you? 17 A. I believe it was Mr. Weissman. 18 Q. And when he confronted you, did he indicate to you that 19 you had -- you had no chance of getting a plea agreement 20 because you had lied intentionally during a proffer session? 21 A. 22 agreement I would have to accept the second charge. 23 Q. 24 time? 25 A. He indicated that in order to move forward with the plea And did you have a plea agreement drafted for you at that I don't recall if it was drafted at that time. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 387 of 580 Gates - Cross 1366 1 Q. Did you know the terms and conditions of your plea 2 agreement at that time? 3 A. I was aware of some of them, yes. 4 Q. And when you met with the Office of Special Counsel at 5 each meeting, did they tell you you were required to provide 6 truthful information? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And after they discovered that you had intentionally 9 provided false and misleading information, did they tell you 10 they would not offer you a plea? 11 A. They never made that indication. 12 Q. But, instead, they told you they added a charge; is that 13 correct? 14 A. That's correct. 15 Q. Even though you knowingly and intentionally lied? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And subsequent to that, you did sign a plea agreement with 18 the Office of Special Counsel, correct? 19 A. That is correct. 20 Q. And that agreement, once again, requires you to provide 21 truthful information? 22 A. That's correct. 23 Q. Not to be intentionally false or misleading; is that 24 correct? 25 A. Correct. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 388 of 580 Gates - Cross 1367 1 Q. And in your plea agreement, despite the fact that you had 2 a plea to two counts with a total exposure to you of ten years 3 in jail, the Office of Special Counsel agreed that your lawyer 4 could file a recommendation with a judge in Washington, D.C., 5 to say that even though you had committed these crimes and 6 admitted to it and lied during the process, that you should get 7 probation; is that correct? 8 A. 9 sentence might be. No, they were not responsible for indicating what the That's up to the judge. 10 Q. So let me repeat the question. The terms of your plea 11 agreement let your lawyer argue that you should have probation 12 and no jail time; is that correct? 13 A. That is correct. 14 Q. And it would be unopposed by the Office of Special 15 Counsel; is that correct? 16 A. 17 yes. 18 Q. 19 violated the terms and conditions of your proffer with them? 20 A. 21 I knew when I signed the plea agreement what the terms were. 22 Q. 23 important term was that you tell the truth? 24 A. That's correct. 25 Q. And you violated that before you even got a plea If I fulfilled the requirements in the plea agreement, Even though before you got the plea agreement, you I don't know all the terms related prior to the proffer. Well, you did know that the proffer agreement -- the most Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 389 of 580 Gates - Cross 1 agreement? 2 3 MR. ANDRES: THE COURT: I'll overrule the objection. If he You may disagree with the accuracy of it, but your mindset is not what's important; it's his. 8 9 That misstates both misstates something in his mind, he can testify to it. 6 7 Objection, Judge. the proffer agreement and the nature of it. 4 5 1368 MR. ANDRES: Understood. BY MR. DOWNING: 10 Q. So is that correct? 11 things for you to do, tell the truth? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. So let's talk about some of the information that you 14 provided during your proffers on the fraudulent activity that 15 you were involved in and let's start with Global Sites. 16 That was one of the most important Do you want to explain what Global Sites is? 17 A. Yes. Global Sites is a company set up by Mr. Manafort and 18 a partner of his in New York in regards to a high-frequency 19 trading business. 20 Q. And that was a gentleman named Arthur Cohen, correct? 21 A. It was. 22 Q. And "it was" because he's deceased, correct? 23 A. Correct. 24 Q. And he had expertise in the area of high-speed trading? 25 A. He did not, but people affiliated with him did. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 390 of 580 Gates - Cross 1369 1 Q. And Mr. Manafort made an investment with Mr. Cohen in 2 Global Sites; is that correct? 3 A. That is correct. 4 Q. And there came a time where you got involved with that 5 investment; is that correct? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And you had represented to Mr. Cohen that of the 8 $1.5 million that Mr. Manafort invested -- he invested 1.5, did 9 he not? 10 A. I don't recall the exact amount. I believe it was more, 11 though. 12 Q. 13 that Mr. Manafort invested, $250,000 of that was your money? 14 A. That's correct. 15 Q. And you represented that it was a bonus? 16 A. That's correct. 17 Q. And that's what you told the Office of Special Counsel? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Now, this is in 2012 when this investment took place? 20 A. No, it was in 2011, I believe. 21 Q. 2011. 22 A. I believe it was approximately 240,000. 23 Q. And you, in 2011, received a bonus that year of about 24 $60,000; is that correct? 25 A. And you represented to Mr. Cohen of the amount of money In 2011, what was your salary at DMP? I believe that was -- I don't know. I don't have the -- Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 391 of 580 Gates - Cross 1370 1 Q. About 60 to put you at $300,000? 2 A. That would be correct. 3 Q. And you sit here today, and you're telling this jury to 4 believe that on top of the 60,000 that Mr. Manafort allocated 5 another 250,000 to you for a bonus? 6 A. Yes, that's correct. 7 Q. That's correct? 8 with Mr. Cohen? 9 A. And that that would be your investment The investment with Mr. Cohen was actually through a 10 promissory note as well. 11 Q. 12 next up. Oh, we're going to get to the promissory note. 13 That's But so the first 250, you represented that 14 Mr. Manafort said it was a bonus for you; is that correct? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And have you seen any e-mails presented to you in any of 17 your meetings with the Office of Special Counsel that 18 Mr. Manafort communicated that you were going to be paid a 19 $250,000 bonus? 20 A. I do not believe there are any e-mails. 21 Q. So let's get to the promissory note, Part 2 of this 22 investment, correct? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And the second part of the investment is approximately a 25 $700,000 investment split between you and Mr. Cohen; is that Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 392 of 580 Gates - Cross 1371 1 correct? 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. And I think you represented to the Office of Special 4 Counsel that $350,000 that you provided to Mr. Cohen came out 5 of the Cypriot funds; is that correct? 6 A. 7 of bonuses and other payments, which, over time, I paid back 8 Mr. Cohen. 9 Q. And in what year did you get the $350,000 bonus? 10 A. It wasn't a singular year. 11 of four years. 12 Q. 13 year, but then it took three years to accumulate the 350,000; 14 is that correct? 15 A. Yes, in order for me to repay the promissory note. 16 Q. And as you sit here today, do you want the jury to believe 17 that Mr. Manafort authorized you to take $350,000 out of the 18 Cypriot account? 19 A. 20 funds from Mr. Manafort. 21 Q. So they weren't bonuses? 22 A. No, they were bonuses. 23 Q. Well, how can it be unauthorized? 24 A. I thought you were talking about additional funds that I 25 already admitted to. It came from the Cypriot funds to my accounts in the form Four years. It was over, I think, a period So in 2011, you got a $250,000 bonus for one I've already admitted to the fact that I took unauthorized Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 393 of 580 Gates - Cross 1 Q. Oh, okay. 1372 I can see where the confusion comes from? 2 MR. DOWNING: 3 THE COURT: May I -Hand it to the court security officer. 4 There's a rule that you can't stray from the podium. The court 5 security officer will hand the witness anything the witness 6 needs. 7 BY MR. DOWNING: 8 Q. 9 Exhibit 17. Now, please take a look at what's been marked Defendant's 10 So, Mr. Gates, just take a minute to look over this 11 exhibit, kind of look at the -- the totals for years 2010 to 12 2014. 13 you could. 14 A. It looks like approximately 2.7, 2.8. 15 Q. It's about $3 million, correct? 16 A. Okay. 17 Q. And about how many entries are contained on this -- this 18 document? 19 A. I'd venture to guess somewhere around 40. 20 Q. Somewhere around 40 entries? Give me a ballpark total number for all those items, if 21 And do you recall this document being a compilation 22 of unreported income that you had been initially indicted for 23 in this district? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. And included on this -- on this -- in this document are Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 394 of 580 Gates - Cross 1373 1 some very large dollar entries that are coming out of various 2 Cypriot entities; is that correct? 3 A. That's correct. 4 Q. And each and every one of the transactions that was -- 5 that's contained on this document, as included in your original 6 indictment here, they were authorized by you; isn't that 7 correct? 8 A. 9 unauthorized transfers as well. Yes. Some were authorized by Mr. Manafort, but there were 10 Q. So what I would imagine is -- can you -- do you recall 11 talking to the Office of Special Counsel about having some 12 unauthorized transfers out of the Cypriot accounts? 13 A. I believe I indicated that to them, yes. 14 Q. And do you recall saying that you thought there were about 15 six that were unauthorized? 16 A. No, I don't have any recollection. 17 Q. Totaling about $420,000, do you remember that? 18 A. I do not. 19 Q. Can you pick out the six that you represented to the 20 Office of Special Counsel were authorized? 21 A. No, I cannot. 22 Q. Can you pick out the 420,000 out of this list that you 23 represented were authorized? 24 A. I cannot. 25 Q. Now, as you sit here today, are you representing that Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 395 of 580 Gates - Cross 1374 1 particular transactions on here were authorized by 2 Mr. Manafort? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. But you can't recall if it was the six that you 5 represented to the Office of Special Counsel? 6 A. 7 what it was for. 8 Q. It's actually not the amount. Okay. 9 It's for the purpose of That's how I can tell. One moment. Now, Mr. Gates, the transactions that I have in front 10 of you totaling $3 million, can you explain to me what these 11 transactions are for? 12 A. 13 admitted to. 14 Q. 15 transactions? 16 A. 17 statement. 18 Q. 19 dollar amount that you can give to the jury were unauthorized 20 out of the 3 million? 21 A. Out of this 3 million, no, I cannot. 22 Q. And in addition to unauthorized ones, do you see 23 transactions that you -- you can identify as being some kind of 24 legitimate amount of money? 25 A. Yes. Some of them were unauthorized transactions, which I Others were -- So let's slow down. Which were the unauthorized I don't know in general. I'm saying I made that And other than unauthorized transaction, do you have a Yes. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 396 of 580 Gates - Cross 1375 1 Q. That you were duly owed? 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. Which ones are those? 4 A. The series of transactions from Bletilla Ventures, while 5 not all of these were authorized, many of them were authorized 6 in the form of increased income from Mr. Manafort in regards to 7 the lobbying project that we took on between the years of 2012 8 and 2014, and that also included expenses as well. 9 Q. What kind of expenses? 10 A. In this case, some legitimate, some not. 11 Q. What does that mean? 12 A. Yes. 13 Mr. Manafort and others had not been approved. 14 Q. And why would they need to be approved by Mr. Manafort? 15 A. Because all expenses at some point needed to be approved 16 by him. 17 Q. 18 International; is that correct? 19 A. These expenses? 20 Q. Yes. 21 A. Some were in relation to DMP, but others were not. 22 Q. They were personal, correct? 23 A. Some were personal, yes. 24 Q. A substantial amount of them were personal, correct? 25 A. That's possible, yes. Can you explain that? That means that some expenses had been approved by And they were unrelated to the business of DMP Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 397 of 580 Gates - Cross 1376 1 Q. Why do you say it's possible? 2 A. Because I don't know the exact breakdown based on this 3 sheet that you indicated -- or that you gave to me in terms of 4 what they exactly are. 5 Q. 6 expenses as legitimate business expenses and have them paid 7 through these offshore accounts? Did you have a scheme that you developed to put personal 8 9 Was that a scheme you perpetrated? A. It wasn't a scheme. I just added expense numbers to the 10 reports. 11 Q. You added what? 12 A. Numbers to the expense reports. 13 Q. Or did you just submit your total AmEx bill and say, I'll 14 have the whole thing paid, thank you? 15 A. 16 didn't submit that type of documentation. 17 Q. 18 your AmEx bill? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. That included substantial personal expenditures? 21 A. Yes, that's possible. 22 Q. What do you mean it's possible? 23 I don't believe it was submitted overseas because we Did you have amounts paid to you in the full amount of Is that part of your scheme? 24 A. 25 don't know what you're referring to. Did you do that? I don't have the AmEx statements in front of me, so I Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 398 of 580 Gates - Cross 1377 1 Q. Did you knowingly and intentionally have personal expenses 2 paid for through the Cypriot accounts of DMP International? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And it was part of the scheme that you perpetrated over 5 several years; is that correct? 6 A. 7 several years, that's correct. 8 Q. 9 Special Counsel, did you? I've already stated that. I submitted expense reports that were not authorized over And this is not something you disclosed to the Office of 10 A. Yes, it is. 11 Q. Was this the seven times that you were talking about that 12 you had unauthorized transfers? 13 A. 14 Special -- 15 Q. 16 from Mr. Manafort? 17 A. I don't know what you're referring to. 18 Q. Did you not get questioned by the Office of Special 19 Counsel about closing a DMP SunTrust account? 20 A. I don't recall. 21 Q. You don't recall it having a balance of $125,000? 22 A. No. 23 Q. You don't recall telling the Office of Special Counsel 24 that 100 of it was a bonus for you? 25 A. No, I don't believe I indicated a number with the Was this the 125,000 you stole out of SunTrust account It's possible. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 399 of 580 Gates - Cross 1378 1 Q. It's possible you said it or it's possible it's a bonus? 2 A. It's possible that it's both. 3 Q. And then when you told them the last 25,000 was used to 4 open a PNC bank account, were you confronted by Mr. Weissmann 5 that no such thing ever happened? 6 A. I don't recall. 7 Q. You know -- 8 THE COURT: 9 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry, what was your answer? I said I don't recall. 10 BY MR. DOWNING: 11 Q. 12 examination. 13 about the same period of time. Mr. Gates, you seem to have perfect recollection on direct 14 You have such a hard time now having recollection Why is that? 15 A. Well, I think you're referring to statements that I 16 haven't seen, so I don't know where you're getting the 17 information from. 18 Q. You haven't seen the 302s? 19 A. No, I have not. 20 Q. Have you been confronted with information you provided by 21 the Office of Special Counsel? 22 A. On the 302s? 23 Q. Yes. 24 A. Not to my knowledge. 25 Q. Have they confronted you with so many lies that you can't Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 400 of 580 Gates - Cross 1379 1 remember any of it? 2 A. No. 3 Q. No what? 4 A. No, they presented me with -- in the interview sessions, I 5 answered the questions. 6 notes, but I have never seen the notes in regards to those 7 conversations. 8 Q. Okay. 9 There was an agent in the room taking We'll keep going on. So the issue I talked to you about, a scheme where 10 you submit personal expenses to get reimbursed, like from DMP, 11 you did offshore, you did the same thing when you were at the 12 inaugural committee, didn't you? 13 A. No, I did not. 14 Q. You did not? 15 Counsel that you were submitting personal expenses to the 16 inaugural committee and getting reimbursed for it? 17 A. 18 recollection, the inaugural expenses were reviewed very 19 closely. 20 Q. 21 committee -- 22 A. I don't recall. 23 Q. -- for reimbursement? 24 A. It's possible. 25 Q. Now, during your meetings with the Office of Special You did not tell the Office of Special Oh, I'm not sure if I told them that or not. But to my Did you submit personal expenses to the inaugural Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 401 of 580 Gates - Cross 1380 1 Counsel, did you have occasion to talk about an entity called 2 Map Global Holdings? 3 A. I did. 4 Q. And -- well, let me go back for one second. 5 finish on this other issue. 6 I'll just So after investing the 250,000 and 350,000 that came 7 from DMP International accounts, you were paid out in two 8 installments on that investment, were you not? 9 A. I was. 10 Q. And you were paid out 800,000 -- half of the first part of 11 the payout, correct? 12 A. I believe that's correct. 13 Q. And 1.7 million on the second payout, correct? 14 A. Well, the 1.7 was split between the two partners. 15 Q. That was the first payment. 16 another 1.7, did you not? 17 A. Oh, okay. 18 Q. So you got $2.5 million. 19 you ever think about paying the money back to DMP or 20 Mr. Manafort? 21 A. No, I did not. 22 Q. No. 23 A. We put it into investment accounts. 24 Q. Who's "we"? 25 A. My family. The second one you got I don't remember if it was 1.7. When you got to 2.5 million, did What did you do with it? Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 402 of 580 Gates - Cross 1381 1 Q. And did you take any of that money to pay for anything 2 else? 3 A. The 2.5? 4 Q. Yeah. 5 A. I don't understand the question. 6 Q. Well, you just said you just did an investment. 7 "we"? 8 A. Myself and my wife. 9 Q. You and your wife? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. But there's another Richard Gates, right? 12 Gates? 13 separate life in London, in other places throughout the 14 country; isn't that true? 15 A. 16 had a relationship, yes. 17 Q. 18 offshore accounts to pay for your lifestyle, your secret life, 19 did you not? 20 A. 21 money that I used for that, and I used family money or money 22 from my family account as well. 23 Q. So more bonus money. 24 A. It was, yes. 25 Q. To the tune of $3 million? Who is Another Rick The secret life of Rick Gates, where you maintain a There was a period of time, almost ten years ago, when I And over that period of time, you used money from these No. I believe those were payments that resulted in bonus Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 403 of 580 Gates - Cross 1382 1 A. No. 2 Q. Do you have a number, as you sit here today, that you 3 would like to provide as a possible number? 4 A. 5 it was far less than 3 million. 6 Q. 7 Is that what they call it in London, an apartment? 8 A. 9 for about two months. I don't have an exact number because of the figures, but And as part of your secret life, did you maintain a flat? There was a period of time when I was in a flat in London 10 Q. And you spent a lot of time flying first class back and 11 forth to London and the United States; isn't that correct? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And usually those were expenses that went through the 14 offshore accounts for DMP International; isn't that correct? 15 A. 16 Mr. Manafort's card was associated with the U.S. account. 17 Q. Are you sure about that? 18 A. I'm not, but I believe that to be the case. 19 Q. And if we had records that indicated that you submitted 20 the expense reports to the Cypriot accounts and to the accounts 21 in St. Vincent's and the Grenadines, would you be surprised? 22 A. I'd be happy to take a look. 23 Q. Would you be surprised? 24 A. Would I be surprised about the money coming from Cyprus? 25 Q. That you went to the foreign banks, represented that you No. Usually on my transits to Ukraine, correct. Those probably went through the U.S. account because Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 404 of 580 Gates - Cross 1383 1 had business expenses when they were not, and had them cut 2 checks or wire transfer money to you? 3 A. 4 expenses -- 5 Q. To fund your separate secret life? 6 A. I -- yes, I acknowledge I had a period of time where I had 7 another relationship. 8 Q. 9 and fancy dinners and trips to Vegas? No. I've already admitted that I've taken unauthorized And did that also include spending money on fancy hotels 10 A. 11 Europe, yes. 12 Q. You don't think you had to pay for her to go to Vegas? 13 A. No. 14 Q. How about buying sound equipment, audio equipment, do you 15 think the offshore accounts paid for that? 16 A. No, I don't think so. 17 Q. How about you going to Whole Foods down in Richmond, do 18 you think the offshore accounts paid for that? 19 A. No. 20 Q. As you sit here today, you're going to deny -- 21 22 I don't believe to Vegas, but there were some trips in That was out of my family -- THE COURT: You didn't give him a chance to finish his answer. 23 MR. DOWNING: 24 THE COURT: 25 THE WITNESS: Sorry. You may finish your answer. Thank you. In Richmond, it was Whole Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 405 of 580 Gates - Cross 1384 1 Foods, that's not offshore money. 2 BY MR. DOWNING: 3 Q. 4 wouldn't be -- you wouldn't have submitted false requests for 5 reimbursements for trips to Las Vegas? 6 A. 7 to Las Vegas to, I believe, meet Mr. Brown, and I don't 8 believe -- I don't know if I expensed those. 9 expensed those to the U.S. And, and you said you wouldn't be -- the offshore accounts The business trips, there was business trips that I took I believe I 10 Q. But Mr. Brown is not related to DMP International; isn't 11 that correct? 12 A. That is correct. 13 Q. You were conducting separate business and investment with 14 Mr. Brown; is that correct? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And so it would have been inappropriate -- it would have 17 actually been an embezzlement if you were trying to get 18 reimbursed for those trips through DMP's accounts; is that 19 correct? 20 A. That would be correct. 21 Q. And now let's get to Mr. Brown since you mentioned his 22 name. 23 did you have occasion to be confronted with your involvement 24 with Mr. Brown and Map Global Holdings? 25 A. During your meetings with the Office of Special Counsel, I did. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 406 of 580 Gates - Cross 1385 1 Q. And what, if anything, did the Office of Special Counsel 2 confront you with? 3 A. 4 about how the company was structured, and about some of the 5 business deals that Mr. Brown was involved in, and then later 6 on, they confronted me in regards to a letter that I prepared 7 for Mr. Brown. 8 Q. Was Map Global Holdings some type of Ponzi scheme? 9 A. Map was not. 10 Q. What was? 11 A. I don't know what you're referring to. 12 map was a PR and movie production company. 13 Q. 14 of Special Counsel confronted you with? 15 A. 16 that we had worked on to create a Swiss documentary, and then 17 other questions arose not related to Map but specifically to 18 Mr. Brown about a Ponzi scheme. 19 Q. 20 together falsified financial statements? 21 A. For Mr. Brown, yes. 22 Q. And what do you mean for Mr. Brown? 23 A. You're referring to? 24 Q. Was it a personal financial statement? 25 financial statement? They confronted me first by asking about the relationship, Map was not a -- And what is it that you were doing for Map that the Office They were interested in two things. One was a project Weren't there issues with you being involved with putting I acknowledged that. What does that mean? A corporate Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 407 of 580 Gates - Cross No. 1386 1 A. It was a letter that Mr. Brown asked me to prepare 2 for him in regards to an investment he was working on. 3 Q. And what was false and misleading about the letter? 4 A. The letter was a request from Mr. Brown to have a company 5 indicate that it might be interested investing in one of the 6 movies so that he could use it in another negotiation. 7 Q. And it was not true? 8 A. The amount of money listed in the letter was not true; 9 that's correct. It was just false? 10 Q. And how much was listed in the letter? 11 A. I don't recall. 12 Q. Millions? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And, in fact, did you know how much money was actually 15 involved? 16 A. No. 17 Q. And you didn't ask him before you signed the letter? 18 A. No, because I did it as a -- as a favor, similar as I did 19 the letter to Mr. Manafort. 20 Q. So you committed fraud with Mr. Brown as a favor? 21 A. I did. 22 Q. And there's also another issue that went on with Mr. Brown 23 and his company that involved false entries on the general 24 ledgers. 25 Mr. Brown never indicated to me. I admitted to that. And apparently do you recall -THE COURT: Is that a question? Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 408 of 580 Gates - Cross 1387 1 BY MR. DOWNING: 2 Q. Yeah, do you recall that? 3 A. Which general ledger? 4 Q. Map Global Holdings. 5 A. I'd have to look at it to see. 6 Q. Do you recall receiving payments from Map Global Holdings? 7 A. I did for PR work, yes. 8 Q. What kind of amounts did you receive? 9 A. 200,000, roughly. 10 Q. And do you recall that on the ledgers of Map Global 11 Holdings they were recorded as distributions for Steve Brown? 12 A. 13 Mr. Brown. 14 Q. You didn't make the general ledger entries for Map Global? 15 A. I made the general ledger entries and reviewed with our 16 accountant. 17 Q. 18 to you as distributions to Steve Brown? 19 A. 20 and indicating that they were mine. 21 Q. 22 you told the Office of Special Counsel that distributions 23 recorded as distributions to Steve Brown were actually received 24 by you in your bank account? 25 A. For Map? Not in my -- not my entries. I don't know about Mr. Brown had different entries. And you did not make entries that were recording payments I wasn't making recordings that gave money to Mr. Brown So there did not have a -- there was not an occasion when The money in the Map, because it was a Map bank account, Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 409 of 580 Gates - Cross 1388 1 and then the distributions were divided between myself and 2 Mr. Brown. 3 Q. 4 sorry. 5 A. Sure. 6 Q. You did not tell the Office of Special Counsel that 7 payments to you were being disguised on Map Global Holdings' 8 general ledger as distributions for Steve Brown? 9 say that? Okay. One more time I have to ask the question, I'm You did not 10 A. I don't recall saying that, no. 11 Q. Do you recall being confronted with that? 12 A. No, I don't. 13 Q. Now, with respect to Map Global Holdings, was there any 14 discussions with the Office of Special Counsel as to what kind 15 of federal crimes you committed when you signed that letter and 16 provided it for Mr. Brown, the potential investments that he 17 had, I guess? 18 What would you call that type of letter? 19 A. The letter was for a potential investment in a movie 20 project that he was working on. 21 Q. 22 that what it was? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Okay. 25 You want to invest with us too," correct? So he was representing that he had certain backing, is So you're saying, "Hey, we have these investors. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 410 of 580 Gates - Cross 1389 1 A. That's what I understood. 2 Q. Is that like a lulling letter? 3 call it? 4 A. He didn't call it that. 5 Q. Would you? 6 A. I don't know, because I wasn't privy to the negotiations. 7 Q. Did the government indicate to you what kind of federal 8 crimes you committed when you did that? 9 A. I think they indicated that it was fraud. 10 Q. It was fraud? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Any securities fraud? 13 A. I don't recall them indicating that. 14 Q. Mail/wire fraud? 15 A. I don't recall. 16 Q. Any money received with respect to that letter by 17 Mr. Brown? 18 A. Not to my knowledge. 19 Q. But it wasn't discussed that crimes that would constitute; 20 is that correct? 21 A. Other than fraud, I don't believe so, but I don't recall. 22 Q. And was there any discussion about you pleaing to that 23 fraud? 24 A. 25 plea agreement, yes. Is that what you would It was represented as an additional crime as part of my Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 411 of 580 Gates - Cross 1390 1 Q. But you didn't need to plea to it? 2 A. No, because as part of the plea agreement, the government 3 agreed that it would not bring -- or would not prosecute for 4 additional charges, and I believe that was one that I raised in 5 addition with them. 6 Q. 7 believe you raised it? 8 A. 9 The letter itself, I was confronted with the letter. You don't believe you were confronted with it. No, no. You I mean, the relationship with Mr. Brown I raised. 10 Q. Now, there's also an issue the Office of Special 11 Counsel -- Office of Special Counsel -- excuse me -- raised 12 with you regarding potential insider trading. 13 insider trading, do you know what that is? 14 A. That's correct. 15 Q. Did they raise an issue with you about potential insider 16 trading? 17 A. They did. 18 Q. Can you explain to the jury what insider trading is? 19 A. Yes. 20 position in a company is able to provide information that's not 21 available to the public. 22 Q. And can that be considered fraud too? 23 A. I don't know that. 24 Q. Were you advised by the Office of Special Counsel that 25 there are federal statutes that criminalize insider trading? Is that -- To my understanding, it's when somebody that has a I don't know the law in that regard. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 412 of 580 Gates - Cross 1391 1 A. I believe they mentioned that there were statutes 2 regarding that, yes. 3 Q. Did they mention that you would be prosecuted for that? 4 A. No, they did not. 5 Q. Now, when you were confronted about this insider 6 trading -- 7 THE COURT: 8 prosecuted for that? 9 10 THE WITNESS: Did you understand you could be Oh, I understood that I could be prosecuted, yes. 11 THE COURT: Next question. 12 BY MR. DOWNING: 13 Q. 14 you not, making an inquiry about this? 15 A. I did. 16 Q. And did you raise that issue with the Office of Special 17 Counsel or were you confronted with that letter? 18 A. 19 letter. 20 context of talking about that entity, if I -- if I informed 21 them that I had received a letter. 22 Q. And what entity did that involve? 23 A. That was a company called ID Watchdog. 24 Q. And what was the allegation about the insider trading? 25 A. The allegation was in regards to a conversation and Well, in fact, you had received a letter from the SEC, did As I recall, I think I acknowledged that I had received a I don't know if they asked it as a question or in the Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 413 of 580 Gates - Cross 1392 1 whether or not it occurred with my brother, who I did not know 2 if he had invested in the company or not. 3 Q. 4 warrants on the eve of an IPO for this company or a purchase? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And can you explain what that was? 7 A. Yes. 8 their warrants before the expiration date, but it was very 9 close to the expiration date. Was there also an issue about you receiving certain So a number of board directors did not exercise And the CFO of the company 10 allowed the various board members, as I recall, to exercise 11 those warrants. 12 Q. 13 exercise? 14 A. 15 warrants. 16 Q. And what year was that? 17 A. The exercise of the warrants, I believe, was in 2017. 18 Q. And did the Office of Special Counsel indicate whether or 19 not, at the time, there was an ongoing investigation against 20 you regarding insider trading? 21 A. I don't recall if they had an investigation. 22 Q. Did you retain a lawyer to represent you with respect to 23 an ongoing investigation by the SEC? 24 A. No. 25 Q. And did the Office of Special Counsel indicate that you And what kind of -- what kind of warrants did you get to I think it was a total of, I think, around 250,000 Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 414 of 580 Gates - Cross 1393 1 would have to plead guilty for your actions with respect to 2 that activity? 3 A. No, they did not. 4 Q. Now, in addition to these various fraud schemes, you also 5 had discussions with the Office of Special Counsel about your 6 failure to report income on your tax returns; is that correct? 7 A. That is correct. 8 Q. And one such occasion had to do with an investment you 9 made in a Facebook IPO; is that correct? 10 A. I don't recall. 11 Q. Do you recall what you disclosed to the Office of Special 12 Counsel about unreported income from various investments? 13 A. I do not. 14 Q. Did you disclose unreported income from various 15 investments? 16 A. 17 indicated that I did not disclose all of my income. 18 Q. 19 that you did not report the $2.5 million proceeds from your 20 activities with Mr. Cohen on your original tax returns? 21 A. 22 has not been filed yet. 23 Q. 24 the original return, but you did report it on an amended tax 25 return; is that correct? I believe I did. It may have been generally, that I Do you recall disclosing to the Office of Special Counsel Well, that would have been on the 2017 tax return, which So you didn't represent that you failed to report it on Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 415 of 580 Gates - Cross 1394 1 A. I don't think it's been reported yet. It's an action that 2 occurred in 2017. 3 original has not been filed. 4 Q. 5 of Special Counsel? 6 A. I don't believe I did. 7 Q. Did you have occasion to talk to the Office of Special 8 Counsel or disclose that you had filed amended tax returns in 9 the summer of 2017? That tax year has not been filed. The So you did not make any such representation to the Office 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And do you recall being confronted by the Office of 12 Special Counsel about falsities in the amended return? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And what were the falsities that you were confronted with? 15 A. At the time, my attorney had indicated that I should put a 16 letter into the tax returns, because at subject was the foreign 17 bank accounts that were controlled by Mr. Manafort. 18 stated earlier, Mr. Manafort had accepted that he had control 19 and signature authority over those accounts, but we were not in 20 the position, as I recall, with the Special Counsel to 21 determine whether or not they would accept that position or 22 not. 23 As was So my attorney had submitted, with the tax return, a 24 letter stating that we would have to investigate the -- 25 further, the foreign bank accounts because of the situation Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 416 of 580 Gates - Cross 1395 1 going on with the Special Counsel's office. 2 Q. 3 you they felt that you failed to report offshore bank accounts 4 on your amended tax return? 5 A. They did. 6 Q. And the amended tax returns, if I understand this 7 correctly, the timing of them was that the Office of Special 8 Counsel had been conducting an investigation for some time? 9 A. Correct. 10 Q. And you knew of it, correct? 11 A. That's correct. 12 Q. Did you also get confronted with leaving off well over 13 $1 million on your amended tax return? 14 A. I don't recall if that was the number. 15 Q. Do you recall that it was a large number? 16 A. I don't recall what number that they allocated or 17 indicated that I had not paid in taxes. 18 Q. Do you recall what it related to? 19 A. I do not. 20 Q. Do you recall if it related to income from offshore 21 accounts? 22 A. 23 accounts. 24 Q. So you do recall that? 25 A. Now, with you recollecting my memory, yes. So, Mr. Gates, did the Office of Special Counsel state to Oh, I'm sorry, yes, it did relate to income from offshore Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 417 of 580 Gates - Cross 1396 1 Q. So I want to go back to the EDVA indictment. 2 indictment that I believe you testified, I'll ask the question 3 again, that the -- 4 5 THE COURT: The original Let me just say EDVA means Eastern District of Virginia. 6 MR. DOWNING: Oh, thank you, Your Honor. 7 BY MR. DOWNING: 8 Q. 9 Counsel agreed to dismiss the charges against you here in the As part of your plea agreement, the Office of Special 10 Eastern District of Virginia; is that correct? 11 A. That is correct. 12 Q. And those charges included filing false tax returns for 13 several years; is that correct? 14 A. Yes, that's correct. 15 Q. And it included failure to file FBARs for several years? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And it included bank fraud charges? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. And conspiracy to commit bank fraud, is that correct? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. And did the Office of Special Counsel indicate to you that 22 you could be looking at as much as 290 months in jail? 23 A. 24 recall. 25 Q. I don't think they ever indicated a number, but I don't Oh, I stand corrected. It's 290 years. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 418 of 580 Gates - Cross 1 1397 Did they indicate to you that you could go to jail 2 for 290 years? 3 A. Same response, but I like your first answer better. 4 5 (Laughter.) Q. What is the response? 6 THE COURT: 7 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry? Sorry, Your Honor. I said that it's 8 the same answer. 9 to me the total number of maximum years that I could serve for 10 I don't recall the Special Counsel indicating the second indictment. 11 THE COURT: Well, what did you understand the maximum 12 years you could be sentenced to? 13 THE WITNESS: 14 significant. 15 16 THE COURT: quantify that? 17 18 It was -- I understood it to be quite All right. Do you -- did you -- can you Did you have, in your mind, a number? THE WITNESS: I knew it was in excess of 50 to 100 years, yes. 19 THE COURT: 20 MR. DOWNING: Next question. Thank you, Your Honor. 21 BY MR. DOWNING: 22 Q. 23 Special Counsel after you took your plea, did you have occasion 24 to be interviewed by other members of the Office of Special 25 Counsel about the Trump campaign? Now, in terms of your cooperation with the Office of Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 419 of 580 Gates - Cross 1398 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And were you interviewed on several occasions about your 3 time at the Trump campaign? 4 MR. ANDRES: 5 THE COURT: 6 Objection, Your Honor. All right. Do you need to come to the bench? 7 MR. ANDRES: Please. 8 THE COURT: 9 (Pages 1399 through 1405 filed under seal.) All right. You may do so. 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 420 of 580 Gates - Cross 1 THE COURT: 1406 Ladies and gentlemen -- ladies and 2 gentlemen, I want to thank you in advance for your patience, 3 because we're going to take another break now, and hope you'll 4 have a soft drink. 5 But it won't be a long break. It will be -- well, it 6 will be -- we'll recess until 4:30 and then go at least until 7 5:30, and we'll see where we are. 8 I can assure you that this is necessary. 9 Thank you for your patience. Pass your books to the right. Mr. Flood will collect 10 them, maintain their security. 11 discussing the matter amongst yourselves or with anyone or 12 undertaking any investigation. 13 All right. 14 And remember to refrain from You may follow Mr. Flood out. Court stands in recess until -- I said 4:30. 15 Oh, Mr. Gates, you may step down, sir, but you must 16 remember that you may not discuss your testimony with anyone. 17 THE WITNESS: 18 MR. ANDRES: 19 Thank you. Thank you, Your Honor. (Recess from 4:04 p.m., until 4:28 p.m.) 20 (Defendant present, Jury out.) 21 THE COURT: Did you have something? 22 MR. DOWNING: 23 THE COURT: 24 MR. NANAVATI: 25 THE COURT: No. Mr. Nanavati? Yes. That's yours. It was delivered to the Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 421 of 580 Gates - Cross 1407 1 clerks. The marshals opened it. 2 have no idea what it is and don't care. 3 MR. NANAVATI: 4 THE COURT: THE COURT: All right. You may be seated. Thank you again for your patience. 8 Let's have Mr. Gates return. And we will recess sharply at 5:30. 10 11 Bring in the jury, please. (Jury present.) 6 9 I Thank you, Your Honor. All right. 5 7 I have not looked at it. All right. oath. Mr. Gates, you'll recall you remain under You may resume the stand. 12 THE WITNESS: 13 THE COURT: 14 MR. DOWNING: Thank you. All right. Mr. Downing, you may proceed. Thank you, Your Honor. 15 BY MR. DOWNING: 16 Q. 17 was marked as Defendant's Exhibit 17, the compilation of 18 $3 million in wires from DMP's offshore accounts. 19 that in front of you? 20 A. I do. 21 Q. And there's a section starting in 2010 -- 2011, I'm 22 sorry -- 9/9/2011, and it says -- the name on it is "Jemina" -- 23 is it Jemina? 24 A. Jemina. 25 Q. Jemina, J-e-m-i-n-a, LLC. Mr. Gates, I'd like you to go back and take a look at what Do you have Is that correct? Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 422 of 580 Gates - Cross 1 1408 And do you see on 9/9/2011, there was a wire transfer 2 from Peranova for $48,500 to Jemina? Do you see that? 3 A. I do. 4 Q. And then if you go to the next page, and for a series of 5 entries for July 8, 2013, do you see that? 6 A. July 8? 7 Q. Yeah. 8 Marziola? 9 A. Yes, I do. 10 Q. In the amount of $72,500? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And there's an entry for September 4, 2013, also from 13 Marziola to Jemina for $89,807? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. There's another entry on 10/22/2013 from Cypriot agent to 16 Jemina for $119,844. 17 A. I do. 18 Q. What is Cypriot agent? 19 A. I don't know. 20 Q. Did you have some side deal in Cyprus where you were 21 getting money funneled to you from a law firm or an accounting 22 firm? 23 A. No, there was no side deal. 24 Q. Well, what is Cypriot agent? 25 A. Oh, Cypriot agent could be in reference to when the Do you see that for Jemina LLC, 7/8/2013 from Do you see that? Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 423 of 580 Gates - Cross 1409 1 Cypriot accounts were closed Dr. K had consolidated those 2 accounts into a -- what he called a client account. 3 could be in reference to that. 4 Q. 5 11/12, and 12/22/13 -- excuse me -- December 20, 2013, all say 6 "Cypriot agent," correct? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. 119,844, 80,000, and $90,000; is that correct? 9 A. That is. 10 Q. And can we go down to 2014? So that And those Cypriot agent, the next three entries are 10/22, 11 There's two more entries for Cypriot agent to Jemina, 12 correct? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. February 2014 and April for $60,044 and $44,068, is that 15 correct? 16 A. That is. 17 Q. All to Jemina? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. And then the last one is 10/6/2014 from Global Endeavour 20 to Jemina for $65,000, correct? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. So that's several hundred thousand dollars that were going 23 to Jemina, correct? 24 A. Yes, it is. 25 Q. Now, I'd like you to take a look at what's been put in Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 424 of 580 Gates - Cross 1410 1 front of you and marked as Defense Exhibit 14. Do you see 2 that? 3 A. I do. 4 Q. And -- and what is that document? 5 A. The first one appears to be the wiring instructions. 6 Q. And these are wire instructions from? 7 A. It appears to be from -- I'm sorry -- it's a confirmation 8 statement from Loyal Bank. 9 Q. And for which account? 10 A. This would be Global Endeavour. 11 Q. And that's what it says on the bottom right-hand side, 12 correct? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And this is a wire transfer for $65,000? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And where is it headed? 17 A. It appears to Jemina. 18 Q. And what is the date of that? 19 A. It's way at the bottom. 20 Q. And can you turn to the next page? 21 document? 22 A. This says, "Checklist for Confirmation of Wire Request." 23 Q. And is that a corresponding document for the front page 24 for the wire transfer? 25 A. It looks like 8/9/2014. And what is that Yes, it appears to be. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 425 of 580 Gates - Cross 1411 1 Q. And it's the same bank, correct? 2 A. It is. 3 Q. And on the next page? 4 A. This is a pro forma invoice that I -- that I drafted in 5 regards to the documentation needed from Global Endeavour. 6 Q. 7 correct? 8 A. That is correct. 9 Q. And can you turn to the next page? And for the total of six- -- excuse me -- $65,000, What is that document? 10 THE COURT: 11 MR. DOWNING: 12 THE COURT: 13 MR. ANDRES: 14 THE COURT: 15 (Defendant's Exhibit No. 14 was received in 16 Do you plan to offer this document? I do. All right. No, Your Honor. All right. THE COURT: 18 THE WITNESS: So let's see if we can move it along. It appears to be applicant check details. 20 THE COURT: 21 MR. DOWNING: 22 It's admitted. evidence.) 17 19 Any objections to it? What's the question to Mr. Gates? I was just asking if he understood what the next document was, if he knows what it is. 23 THE WITNESS: 24 BY MR. DOWNING: 25 Q. No, I've never seen it. And the next page? Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 426 of 580 Gates - Cross 1412 1 A. This is the consultancy agreement that was required by the 2 account of the bank in order to make a wire transfer. 3 Q. 4 is that correct? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Jemina. Okay. 7 This says it's Global Endeavour, Inc., and Jemina; And what is this supposed to be, a consultancy 8 agreement? 9 A. Yes. The bank required supporting documentation, so they 10 required both an agreement and a invoice. 11 Q. 12 What does that mean? 13 A. 14 effective, required the two pieces of supporting documentation. 15 Q. 16 is it not? 17 A. The -- in order to do the wire, yes, it was. 18 Q. There was no consultancy agreement between Global 19 Endeavour and Jemina? 20 A. 21 transacted out of the account. 22 Q. 23 Office of Special Counsel? 24 A. 25 So when you say the bank required it, what do you mean? I don't understand. It means that the bank, in order to make the wire transfer And the supporting documentation is false and misleading, That's correct. It was in order to get the wire And did you have occasion to discuss Jemina with the I'm not -- I don't recall if they discussed that or not. THE COURT: Mr. Gates, is that your signature at the Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 427 of 580 Gates - Cross 1 end of this document? 2 agreement? 1413 3 THE WITNESS: 4 THE COURT: 5 THE WITNESS: At the end of the so-called consultancy No, it is not. Do you recognize the signature? Yes. These were the signatures for 6 Global Endeavour, and it appears some of that I had signed on 7 behalf of Jemina from the Cyprus law firm. 8 THE COURT: 9 THE WITNESS: So you did sign it? I personally didn't sign it, but I had 10 a representative sign it, yes. 11 THE COURT: Next question. 12 BY MR. DOWNING: 13 Q. 14 professional fees," is a false document, correct? 15 A. Yes, it is. 16 Q. And the consultancy agreement is a false document, 17 correct? 18 A. 19 the wire transaction. 20 Q. 21 that's your account, is it not? 22 A. It is. 23 Q. And all the transfer we just talked about for Jemina were 24 similar to this, correct? 25 A. So the invoice attached for $65,000, it says, "For Yes. They were supporting documentation in order to get And the account to which the wire went to for Jemina, I don't know which accounts they came from but -- Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 428 of 580 Gates - Cross 1414 1 Q. Well, we went through that before but they're all under 2 the same consultancy agreement, correct? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. A fake and phony consultancy agreement? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And the original -- the consultancy agreement itself is 7 something you drafted? 8 A. 9 the Cyprus law firm and then that was the same one I've used to No, that was drafted by the -- the template was drafted by 10 edit other things. 11 Q. 12 false and misleading information? 13 A. No, I updated it. 14 Q. And you sent it to them? 15 A. Correct. 16 Q. Now, getting back to Exhibit 17, Defense Exhibit 17, I 17 draw your attention to the last page. 18 there's a transfer from Global Endeavour to Bade LLC for 19 $120,000. So you've asked them to update it for this particular 20 I used their template. For November 25, 2014, Do you see that? 21 A. I do. 22 Q. Now, can you look at what's been marked Defense 23 Exhibit 15? 24 25 15. MR. DOWNING: And, Your Honor, we move Defendant's Exhibit 15 into evidence. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 429 of 580 Gates - Cross 1415 1 MR. ANDRES: 2 THE COURT: 3 (Defendant's Exhibit No. 15 was received in 4 None. No objection. Admitted. evidence.) 5 THE COURT: Next question. 6 BY MR. DOWNING: 7 Q. 8 page is of Defendant's Exhibit 15? 9 A. The first page is a wire confirmation request. 10 Q. For $120,000? 11 A. It is. 12 Q. And it's set to go to Bade LLC; is that correct? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And the attached invoice from Bade LLC, do you see that? 15 A. I do. 16 Q. And it says it's for professional fees for $120,000? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. And Bade LLC, is that an entity that you set up? 19 A. It is. 20 Q. And that's a bank account that you're the holder of? 21 A. It is. 22 Q. And this invoice is a false and phony invoice, correct? 23 A. It is. 24 Q. And there were no professional services provided with 25 respect to receiving 120,000, correct? The first page, can you explain to the jury what the first Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 430 of 580 Gates - Cross 1416 1 A. Correct. These were more expenses. 2 Q. These are for what? 3 THE COURT: 4 THE WITNESS: 5 Where did the money come from? The money came from Global Endeavour, one of the offshore accounts. 6 THE COURT: And -- but where did the money come from? 7 THE WITNESS: Oh, the money came in conjunction to 8 expense reports that I created in order to get the money wired 9 out of the account. 10 THE COURT: Yeah. That tells me how you got the 11 money, you say by -- by using these false expense reports, but 12 I want to know whose money it was. 13 14 THE WITNESS: Oh. In this case it was Mr. Manafort's money. 15 THE COURT: Next question. 16 BY MR. DOWNING: 17 Q. 18 out of, Global Endeavour, was one of DMP International's 19 offshore accounts, correct? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. So I want to see if I can understand this. 22 $120,000 are expenses? 23 A. 24 different payments. 25 description on the invoice was not necessarily consistent with It's one of the -- the money -- the account that it came It's one of the accounts controlled by Mr. Manafort. You're saying Well, it was a series of -- as I recall, there were two The invoice is broken down. So the Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 431 of 580 Gates - Cross 1417 1 what the, you know, payment may have been for. 2 Q. Are these payments for your secret life? 3 A. No, they're not. 4 5 MR. ANDRES: Your Honor, can the witness answer the question? 6 THE COURT: 7 MR. DOWNING: 8 THE COURT: 9 THE WITNESS: Yes, he can. I thought he did. What's the answer to the question? The answer is: No, they're not. 10 BY MR. DOWNING: 11 Q. 12 the tune of $120,000? 13 A. 14 back and try to refresh, but one of them is fabricated. 15 not a true expense report. 16 think you showed me, was a bonus from Mr. Manafort, and I 17 believe this one to be one as well. 18 Q. Okay. 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. First, you said it was reimbursement for expenses. 21 A. For both, correct. 22 Q. And now you're saying it's a bonus. 23 A. Yes. 24 the invoice. 25 Q. So what exactly are you telling us these expenses are to As I said, at least one of them -- I, you know, could go It's For example, one of the entries, I One more time. One -- there's -- you have two entries on here, on And the entries say, "Professional fees"? Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 432 of 580 Gates - Cross 1418 1 A. That's correct. That was the notation used to actually 2 transact the wire from the bank in the Grenadines. 3 Q. 4 expenses," attach an invoice for DMP International-related 5 business expenses? 6 A. As I said, I fabricated the invoice. 7 Q. Why? 8 A. Because I was -- in essence, I was living beyond my means. 9 I was -- it was a difficult time. So why exactly would it not say, "Reimbursement for I was living, you know, more 10 than I should have. I, you know, I regret it, clearly, and, 11 you know, I'm taking responsibility for it, but I made a 12 mistake. 13 Q. 14 business. 15 this is about? 16 A. 17 my wife is aware of but -- 18 Q. Was she aware of your secret life, too? 19 A. She was. 20 Q. So, Mr. Gates, just to be clear, because you've said it 21 several different things, but it is truly just an embezzlement, 22 correct? 23 A. 24 unauthorized. 25 Q. So -- so this truly is not related to DMP International's This is related to your secret life. That's what It's not a secret life since this went to an account that This is money that I've taken from Mr. Manafort that was I've already indicated that. I've said that. It's not authorized? Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 433 of 580 Gates - Cross 1419 1 A. I said it's unauthorized, that's correct. 2 Q. It's an embezzlement, is it not? 3 A. You can choose -- sure. 4 you'd like. 5 Q. Well, why don't you use the word? 6 A. It is an unauthorized transaction that I took from 7 Mr. Manafort. 8 Q. Why won't you say "embezzlement"? 9 A. What difference does it make? 10 Q. Why won't you say "embezzlement"? 11 A. It was embezzlement from Mr. Manafort. 12 13 THE COURT: You can choose whatever word It's an embezzlement? I've admitted 15, 17 -- not 17. I've admitted 14 and 15; is that correct? 14 MR. DOWNING: 15 THE COURT: 16 MR. DOWNING: 17 THE COURT: That's correct, Your Honor. All right. Not 17. Not 17 as yet. 18 BY MR. DOWNING: 19 Q. 20 activities with respect to DMP International and these -- you 21 know, DMP's offshore bank accounts. 22 indicated earlier that you left DMP for a few years and you 23 came back. 24 25 Mr. Gates, I'd like to ask you a few questions about your You came -- I think you Do you recall when you came back to DMP? A. I'm not sure what you mean by leaving DMP. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 434 of 580 Gates - Cross 1420 1 Q. You went off on some business venture, didn't you? 2 A. You'd have to give me more information. 3 you mean. 4 Q. 5 worked at Davis Manafort for a while and then you went off to 6 some tech company. 7 Well, I thought you testified the other day that you Didn't you testify to that? 8 A. What's the name of the tech company? 9 Q. I don't know. 10 11 G-something? MR. ANDRES: Judge, could we have questions and answers as opposed to a discussion here? 12 13 I'm not sure what THE COURT: I don't see that as an objection. overrule it. 14 Go ahead, Mr. Downing. 15 BY MR. DOWNING: 16 Q. 17 Mr. Manafort and went off to some tech venture? 18 A. 19 sure what you mean. 20 21 I'll Was there a period of time when you left working for I don't -- you have to give me more information. THE COURT: I'm not Well, just with that information, can you give an answer? 22 THE WITNESS: Yeah. I mean, I've never left the 23 employ of Mr. Manafort from 2006 to 2016. 24 BY MR. DOWNING: 25 Q. No, I asked before that. G-Tech? Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 435 of 580 Gates - Cross 1421 1 A. Oh, I'm sorry, yes. Yes. That was my second job after 2 going to Black, Manafort, Stone and Kelly. 3 Q. And how many years did you spend at G-Tech? 4 A. I believe it was about four years. 5 Q. And then you came back in 2006 to Davis Manafort, correct? 6 A. No. 7 Strategies & Insight, then Scientific Games. 8 Scientific Games, I came to Davis Manafort Partners. 9 Q. In 2006? 10 A. In 2006. 11 Q. Okay. 12 questions about 2006. 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. When you came back in 2006, was Davis Manafort a smaller 15 operation than it had been before you left? 16 A. It had approximately nine employees when I joined in 2006. 17 Q. And before when you worked there? 18 A. So I started with DMP -- Actually, I came back, I went to work for Business Here we are in 2006. And then from I'm going to ask you some 19 MR. ANDRES: 20 THE COURT: 21 MR. DOWNING: I'm just asking when -- 22 THE WITNESS: I started with Davis Manafort -- 23 MR. ANDRES: 24 THE COURT: 25 Objection, Judge. It misrepresents -- Just a moment. I'm objecting to the question. Wait just a moment. What's your question, Mr. Downing? Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 436 of 580 Gates - Cross 1 BY MR. DOWNING: 2 Q. 3 Manafort? Before you left to go off with G-Tech, how big was Davis 4 5 THE COURT: MR. ANDRES: before that time. 8 9 Yeah. Before you answer, what's the There was no Davis Manafort There was Davis Manafort -- THE COURT: Well, you can't testify. What's your objection? 10 11 All right. objection? 6 7 1422 MR. ANDRES: existed. 12 He's misrepresenting the entities that They were two entirely different -THE COURT: Well, he will have to answer the 13 question. If something is wrong with the question, presumably 14 he'll know that, but you can't get up and tell the Court -- I'm 15 addressing you. 16 MR. ANDRES: 17 THE COURT: 18 view what's right. I'm sorry. You can't simply tell the Court in your This is for the witness. 19 MR. ANDRES: 20 THE COURT: 21 MR. DOWNING: Thank you, Judge. All right. Proceed. Thank you, Your Honor. 22 BY MR. DOWNING: 23 Q. 24 you were working about with Mr. Manafort, what was it called? 25 A. Before you went off to work for G-Tech, the entity that That was Black, Manafort, Stone and Kelly. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 437 of 580 Gates - Cross 1423 1 Q. Okay. So that company that you were working for back -- 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. -- back in that day, was that a larger company than what 4 you had joined Manafort again in 2006? 5 A. It was. 6 Q. Okay. 7 A. How much smaller was Davis Manafort? 8 Q. Yes. 9 A. It was significantly smaller. How much smaller was it? I mean, Davis Manafort was 10 a offshoot of Black, Manafort, Stone and Kelly by some of the 11 partners. 12 Q. 13 your direct you took on more responsibilities. 14 A. Over the years, that's correct. 15 Q. Over the years. 16 types of responsibilities that you took on over the years? 17 A. 18 political campaigns. 19 equity fund, as I mentioned. 20 administrative responsibilities. 21 number of employees decreased over the years, more 22 responsibilities were split with the few staff that remained. 23 Q. 24 you explain what types of administrative responsibilities you 25 took over? And when you returned in 2006, I think you indicated on Yes. And can you give a little detail of the It started out as being more engaged in the I was asked to help set up the private It also included a number of I think, as I stated, as the And in terms of the administrative responsibilities, can Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 438 of 580 Gates - Cross Yes. 1424 1 A. It was a series of things such as managing the 2 company's healthcare, some of the information with the 3 accountants that I've stated, working with the bookkeeper as an 4 example, and also doing some of the other things that 5 Mr. Manafort assigned, including working with some of his real 6 estate attorneys. 7 Q. 8 you had, there was also some travel that came along with your 9 job? And in addition to these -- these responsibilities that 10 A. There was. 11 Q. And can you explain what kind of travel you did? 12 do travel within the United States? 13 A. 14 international travel. 15 Q. And where in the United States did you travel to? 16 A. I know a lot in New York, because Mr. Manafort would meet 17 up there, and then also in kind of around the Washington, D.C., 18 area. 19 that Mr. Manafort wanted me to attend, in some cases I would 20 join him. 21 Q. And how about international? 22 A. Internationally, it was primarily Cyprus and Ukraine, and 23 then, again, there were a host of other countries that we had 24 meetings in that we would go to. 25 Q. Did you I did travel within the United States as well as And then depending on if there were various meetings And when did you -- when you came back in 2006, when did Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 439 of 580 Gates - Cross 1425 1 you start getting involved with the offshore -- Davis 2 Manafort's offshore accounts? 3 A. 4 Mr. Chrysostomides, and then additional responsibilities were 5 assigned to me, you know, over the subsequent years. 6 Q. 7 Manafort's international accounts, were you also working with 8 the accountants year in and year out in terms of getting tax 9 returns ready and prepared for Davis Man- -- DMP, DMP I believe it was started in late 2007, when I met with And as you came up to speed and you were working on Davis 10 International, and Mr. Manafort? 11 A. 12 bookkeeper. 13 Q. 14 about offshore bank accounts; is that correct? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And in 2013, or go ahead a little bit, there was an issue 17 that popped up about an EVO Holdings account. Yes. I was working with the accountants and the And year in and year out, the questions seem to come out 18 Do you remember that? 19 A. I do. 20 Q. And the question was whether or not an FBAR had to be 21 filed by Mr. Manafort for his investment in EVO Holdings. 22 Do you remember that? 23 A. I do. 24 Q. And that particular inquiry you happened to be involved 25 with with accounts over at KWC? Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 440 of 580 Gates - Cross 1426 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And the issue that developed was a bit of a complicated 3 issue, was it not? 4 A. I would say so, yes. 5 Q. And the issue that came up had to do with whether or not 6 Mr. Manafort had the requisite control to be required to file 7 an FBAR; is that correct? 8 A. 9 not foreign bank account. Yeah. Actually, that year it was about foreign shares, 10 Q. Foreign shares, ownership. 11 A. Yes, yes. 12 Q. And there was a question about how to determine if he had 13 control, correct? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And the question was difficult enough that the folks at 16 KWC had to get an expert involved, correct? 17 A. 18 19 I don't recall who the expert was. MR. DOWNING: Would you please bring up Exhibit 201? It's already been in evidence. 20 May we publish, Your Honor? 21 THE COURT: 22 MR. DOWNING: 23 THE COURT: 24 MR. DOWNING: 25 THE COURT: Which exhibit? Yes, 201. And it's already in evidence? It is. All right. You may do so. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 441 of 580 Gates - Cross 1427 1 BY MR. DOWNING: 2 Q. Mr. Gates, please take a look at Government Exhibit 201. 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And if we can flip to the second page, please? 5 A. Oh, so there's no additional expert. 6 Q. Right. 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Okay. 9 this area involved to determine that, in fact, an FBAR did not Thank you. This is KWC. It's someone in their tax department, correct? This is Naji Lakkis. And they got someone with some tax expertise in 10 have to be filed; is that correct? 11 A. Yes, it appears that's their recommendation. 12 Q. And, Mr. Gates, you don't have any expertise in the area 13 of FBAR, do you? 14 A. I do not. 15 Q. Have you ever read any of the IRS regulations on them? 16 A. I have not read them in full, but I've seen them, yes. 17 Q. You've seen parts of them, correct? 18 A. Correct. 19 Q. And when you were presented with KWC's expert opinion on 20 this, they have asked you a question about whether or not this 21 would be the same for another year, correct? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And you respond, "I will call you tomorrow, but based on 24 the structure, as I've learned today, we do not need to file 25 for Paul." Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 442 of 580 Gates - Cross 1 1428 Is that correct? 2 A. Can you show me where that is? 3 Q. It's in the top. 4 A. Yes, I see it. 5 Q. On page 1. 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And what did you mean when you said, "I will call you 8 tomorrow, but based on the structure, as I learned today"? 9 What did you mean by that? Yes. It's in the box. Do you see that? 10 A. I believe that was initially the structure that had 11 been proposed to KWC in which they looked at the ownership 12 percentage of EVO Holdings. 13 Q. 14 FBAR had to be filed. 15 A. 16 associated bank account with EVO Holdings that Mr. Manafort had 17 control of. 18 Q. 19 to whether or not an FBAR had to be filed, correct? 20 A. Not an FBAR on EVO Holdings. 21 Q. Maybe I'll be clearer. 22 here. 23 correct? 24 A. 25 here, once KWC asked the questions about it, I contacted the But you weren't making any decisions on whether or not the KWC was, correct? With respect to the foreign taxes. However, there was an But the question here, you weren't making the decision as This related to the shares. You weren't making the decision It was KWC that was making the decision; is that Yes. Based on a previous e-mail, I believe, that's not Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 443 of 580 Gates - Cross 1429 1 accountants in -- or the law firm in Cyprus to ask them the 2 complete structure of EVO Holdings. 3 Q. Okay. 4 Can you turn to page 2 again? And that's an e-mail from -- is it Lakkis? 5 A. Naji Lakkis, yes. 6 Q. Lakkis. 7 A. Correct, copying Mr. Ayliff and Mr. O'Conor (sic). 8 Q. And they're both employees of KWC, correct? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Okay. 11 "Based on our conversation"? 12 A. 13 financial account that Paul may need to report on the FBAR is 14 the telecommunications entity. 15 let me know." 16 Q. 17 incorrect? 18 A. 19 disclose the other foreign bank accounts. 20 Q. 21 that? 22 A. 23 question and he responds no. 24 Q. 25 Mr. Manafort? To you, correct, dated June 26, 2012? And it says, "Hello, Rick." And can you read the (As read): "Based on our conversation, the only foreign If this is incorrect, please And did you ever let him know if he thought it was No. Because at Mr. Manafort's request, he asked me not to And do you have an e-mail in which Mr. Manafort told you There is an e-mail where he is asked directly the same I'm asking you: Communication between you and Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 444 of 580 Gates - Cross No. 1430 1 A. A lot of our communication occurred verbally, 2 especially on subjects like this. 3 Q. 4 Because in direct, every time you wanted to say something that 5 would make Mr. Manafort be involved with your activity, you 6 said, "We had discussions." 7 A. Correct. 8 Q. And there's no record of any such discussions, are there? 9 A. I think there's a strong record that there are a number of Actually, it's interesting you raise that question. Every single time. 10 discussions that occurred, but for the most part, Mr. Manafort 11 would employ both phone and e-mail in those discussions. 12 Q. 13 direct, this jury is supposed to just believe you; is that 14 correct? 15 A. Yes, they are. 16 Q. Uncorroborated believe you? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. After all the lies you told and fraud you've committed, 19 you expect this jury to believe you? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Uncorroborated? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Do you hope the Office of Special Counsel thinks the same 24 way? 25 A. So with respect to every time you said "discussions" on Yes. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 445 of 580 Gates - Cross 1431 1 Q. Because they're the ones that are going to write you the 2 5K1 letter? 3 A. They will. 4 Q. They're the ones that are going to let your lawyer say you 5 get probation unopposed? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Even if you lie? 8 A. But I haven't, and I'm here to -- 9 Q. And the jury is supposed to believe that? 10 A. Yes. 11 because I made a decision to take responsibility for my 12 actions. 13 Q. 14 conduct? 15 A. I don't know the sentence. 16 Q. That's your responsibility, probation? 17 A. The sentence is decided by the judge. 18 Q. It seems like the government agreed you can get probation? 19 A. The government doesn't decide. 20 Q. For all your crimes, for all your fraud, that's your 21 responsibility? 22 A. 23 trying to change, yes. 24 Q. 25 Mr. Manafort and his entities? Because I'm here to tell the truth. Mr. Manafort had the same path. Responsibility? I'm here I'm here. Probation is responsibility for your I have accepted responsibility. I'm taking it and I'm Have you returned any of the money you stole from Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 446 of 580 Gates - Cross 1432 1 A. I have not. 2 Q. When you filed a financial disclosure form after you were 3 arrested, did you indicate on the form that you have money 4 stashed away in investments? 5 A. 6 would accurately report that information. 7 Q. 8 Services that other than your home, you really have very few 9 assets? I don't recall filing a financial form, but if I did, I Do you recall representing to the Court or Pretrial 10 A. No. We included all the assets that I have. 11 Q. Did you include the assets that you invested from your 12 embezzlement? 13 A. I'm not sure what you mean. 14 Q. The monies we just talked about you were unauthorized to 15 take from DMP International's accounts or Mr. Manafort. 16 A. Most of those went into my personal account. 17 Q. And where are they now? 18 A. Well, those were spent over the years. 19 Q. Oh, so you can't return it to Mr. Manafort, can you? 20 A. No, I cannot. 21 Q. So you're really not taking responsibility, are you? 22 A. On that subject, no. 23 Q. What about on the insider trading? 24 ill-gotten gains you got in insider trading? 25 those? What about the Did you return Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 447 of 580 Gates - Cross 1433 1 A. First, they weren't ill-gotten gains, and I paid for those 2 out of bonuses and payments that I worked off a promissory note 3 over years. 4 Q. 5 from Mr. Manafort, any intent to return that to Mr. Manafort? 6 A. No, because it wasn't stolen. 7 Q. Mr. Gates, are there other frauds that you've committed 8 for which you cannot reimburse or get restitution for their 9 victims as you sit here today? The $2.5 million from the investment from stolen money 10 A. No. 11 Q. Now, with respect to these offshore accounts and the 12 accountants, KWC, there was testimony from Ms. Laporta that she 13 had conversations with you about the offshore accounts, the 14 Davis Manafort offshore accounts. 15 Is that correct? Do you recall having conversations? 16 A. Yes. Several people at KWC had discussions with me and 17 Mr. Manafort. 18 Q. 19 had stated that the accounts were set up in a manner to not 20 have to be reported in the United States. 21 Do you recall telling her that? And she stated that when she had talked to you, that you 22 A. I may have, but I don't recall. 23 Q. You don't recall that, either? 24 A. No. 25 information that Mr. Manafort and I discussed is that it was Well, specifically what I recall telling KWC is the Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 448 of 580 Gates - Cross 1434 1 unnecessary to report foreign accounts because, in his view, he 2 did not have signature authority over the account. 3 Q. 4 that same thing? 5 A. 6 to them that is why Mr. Manafort did not file his foreign 7 accounts. 8 Q. 9 Special Counsel to prep for trial? And do you recall telling the Office of Special Counsel Yes. Initially in my discussions with them, I indicated And how many times did you say you met with the Office of 10 A. Approximately 20 times. 11 Q. No, to prep the trial. 12 trial prep closer to this trial? 13 A. I think it was about 20 hours. 14 Q. Twenty hours. 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And in the 20 hours, did the Office of Special Counsel 17 prep you at all with respect to your conversation with 18 Ms. Laporta? 19 A. No. 20 Q. Show you any documents? 21 A. I was shown documents, yes. 22 Q. About that conversation? 23 A. I don't recall. 24 Q. And is that why you don't recall a conversation? 25 weren't prepped? Was it 20 trial preps or was it If you have a copy, I can look at it. You Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 449 of 580 Gates - Cross No. 1435 1 A. If you'd just show me a copy, I'd be happy to tell 2 you. 3 Q. I asked you a different question. 4 A. Repeat the question. 5 Q. If you weren't prepped by the Office of Special Counsel, 6 have you been prepped to say, "I don't recall"? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Mr. Gates, in -- you gave direct testimony that as an 9 initial matter, you learned that the Cyprus accounts were set 10 up for ease of transfers from the folks in the Ukraine that 11 were going to pay for consulting services; is that correct? 12 A. That's what Mr. Manafort indicated, yes. 13 Q. And over time, a lot of activity went on through those 14 accounts in Cyprus with respect to money being paid for 15 consulting services; is that correct? 16 A. That is correct. 17 Q. Now, you had testified on direct that all of the money 18 that came in was the income of Mr. Manafort or DMP or DMP 19 International; is that correct? 20 A. Of the income that was asked, yes, that's correct. 21 Q. I'm sorry, can you -- 22 A. Yes. 23 indicating the values of the contracts, those contracts were 24 specifically for the majority of political work. 25 Q. What I mean is when we went through the documents Majority of political work. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 450 of 580 Gates - Cross 1436 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And do you know what other amounts were for? 3 A. Well, yes. 4 the lobbying effort that the firm undertook for the European 5 Union and the U.S. 6 Q. 7 in that were supposed to be paid out to other consultants, 8 correct? 9 A. That's correct. 10 Q. And -- and millions of dollars, not small amounts of 11 money, correct? 12 A. Correct. 13 Q. And so all the money that came in was not the income of 14 DMP International. 15 different consultants; isn't that correct? 16 A. That is correct. 17 Q. And there were transfers made through those accounts into 18 the United States to a lot of those consultants, correct? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And to other parts of the world to consultants, correct? 21 A. That is correct. 22 Q. And millions of dollars. For example, there was one amount that was for And there was also considerable amounts of money that came It actually was the income of a lot of 23 In addition to facilitating this flow of funds from 24 Cyprus, did there come a time where Mr. Manafort and DMP were 25 having difficulties banking in the United States? Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 451 of 580 Gates - Cross 1437 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And what do you know about that? 3 A. As I understood, in some of the wire transfers from 4 Cyprus, over a period of time, some of the U.S. banking 5 institutions reached out to the firm, me and Mr. Manafort, 6 indicating that the accounts would be closed because of, I 7 think, what was -- they never really reported. 8 that they have the option of closing the account, but it was 9 quickly learned that the reason they did not keep the accounts They just said 10 open was because the money was coming from Cyprus. 11 Q. And it was a difficult issue, correct? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. I mean, not knowing whether or not your bank is going to 14 honor a transaction or transfer money can make banking and 15 doing business very difficult, correct? 16 A. Yes, it can. 17 Q. Now, when it came to dealing with payments out of Cyprus 18 into the United States, were there any procedures that were put 19 in place to prevent amounts from being bounced back from U.S. 20 bank accounts? 21 A. 22 the wiring -- or the instructions by the Cypriot law firm that 23 requested specific information about a wire, and then either 24 Mr. Manafort or I would send those wire requests to the Cyprus 25 banks. There were no protections that I'm aware of. We followed They would then make the subsequent wire transfer. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 452 of 580 Gates - Cross 1438 1 Q. With respect to sending the request to the Cypriot banks, 2 did you have occasion to make up invoices that weren't the 3 invoice of, let's say, a contractor that was getting paid? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. You did. 6 A. Yes, because in that instance, as I said, the invoice 7 couldn't be in the name of Mr. Manafort. 8 name of the company. 9 Q. As I disclosed earlier, that's correct. And can you explain why you did that? It had to be in the But you didn't just -- if a $375,000 invoice came in the 10 door, you didn't just make up a $375,000 invoice, did you? 11 A. 12 did. 13 Q. 14 break it down into five separate invoices? 15 A. 16 earlier, beginning in 2012 through part of 2013, when Cyprus 17 had experienced a banking collapse. 18 internally, they put what were called liquidity restrictions. 19 So you were only allowed to withdraw a certain amount of money 20 from the country over a defined period of time. 21 the invoices were broken up into various amounts. 22 Q. 23 template and you'd make it look like it was an outside vendor's 24 invoice, but you were doing it for that very reason? 25 A. If that was the wire request from Mr. Manafort, yes, we And would there be a reason to take a $375,000 invoice and Yes. There was a period of time, I think, as I disclosed So within the country, So that's why And you testified on direct that you actually had a No, that was related to the Grenadines. Cyprus was Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 453 of 580 Gates - Cross 1439 1 different. Cyprus had a much simpler process, for the most 2 part. 3 regarding five lines of information that were required. 4 Q. 5 Grenadines? 6 A. 7 explained earlier, you had to have more documentation 8 associated with the account. 9 after the banking collapse in 2012, there, as I recall, was a It was one that they had given to Mr. Manafort and I And what was the -- what was the procedure in the And that would be Global Endeavour, correct? Correct. And Global, the process in the Grenadines, as I I will say, though, in Cyprus, 10 more substantial requirement in terms of documentation. 11 So there could possibly be invoices that were 12 created, i.e., breaking down the payments for the banks in 13 Cyprus. 14 Q. 15 were you instructed by Mr. Manafort at the end of 2011 to no 16 longer be a signatory on the accounts in Cyprus? 17 A. Mr. Manafort had requested me to remove him in 2012. 18 Q. And yourself? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. But you didn't? 21 A. I removed myself from some of the accounts; that's 22 correct. 23 Q. But not all? 24 A. Not all of them. 25 Q. And was that so you can continue to maintain authority to And with respect to your signature authority on accounts, Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 454 of 580 Gates - Cross 1440 1 be able to embezzle funds from DMP International's accounts 2 offshore? 3 A. 4 take my name off. 5 have his name expunged from the records. 6 Q. 7 interview that in 2012 Mr. Manafort told you to remove yourself 8 as a signator, but you did not? 9 A. No. And let me go back. Mr. Manafort never requested I It was his request to take his name off and So you did not tell the Office of Special Counsel in an I don't recall telling them that I was to remove myself. 10 The request was to remove Mr. Manafort, and then Mr. Kilimnik 11 and myself split the various accounts that were still open. 12 But at that point in 2012, a number of the accounts were 13 closed. 14 Q. So on direct, you were -- excuse me one second. 15 On direct, you briefly talked about an account 16 called -- or an entity called "Pompolo"? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. What is that entity? 19 A. Pompolo was an entity that we created in the UK after 20 conversing with Mr. Manafort about the problems in Cyprus with 21 moving money from Cyprus to the United States and having some 22 of those banks close. 23 Cyprus to see if there was a better way that we could get money 24 over to the United States without having the U.S. bank account 25 closed. We conferred with our attorneys down in Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 455 of 580 Gates - Cross 1 1441 Because Cyprus has a relationship with the U.K., it 2 was recommended to us to set up an entity in the U.K. and then 3 transfer the money from Cyprus to the U.K. and then U.K. to the 4 U.S. 5 Q. 6 up? 7 A. Yes, it was. 8 Q. Pompolo? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And what bank in the U.K. was that account set up with? 11 A. That was set up at HSBC. 12 Q. And at the same time an account was set up at HSBC in 13 London, was an account also opened in HSBC in New York? 14 A. 15 had the HSBC account in New York opened. 16 an addition. 17 Q. 18 easier to get the money into the country? 19 A. Yes, at that time. 20 Q. And did you -- were attempts made to do that? 21 A. As I recall, yes. 22 Q. And were they successful? 23 A. I believe so, yes. 24 Q. Now, when I asked you earlier about what Cypriot agent 25 was, I think your explanation after saying, "I don't recall," And did you, in fact -- was -- in fact, was a company set It was, yes. Well, I take that back. I think we already The one in the UK was And was the idea that being interbank at HSBC might be Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 456 of 580 Gates - Cross 1442 1 was that it had something to do with Dr. K, we'll call him? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And him consolidating amounts that were from the offshore 4 accounts, DMP's offshore accounts that were closed, is that 5 correct? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And you mentioned that you think that -- those were the 8 amounts that were transferred to you, correct? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And can you -- can you explain -- or what did you explain 11 to Dr. K as to why you would be entitled to get these kind of 12 payments? 13 A. 14 payments, Mr. Manafort or I had sent through the wire 15 transfers. 16 accounts department would reach out to either me or 17 Mr. Manafort. 18 Q. 19 him directly, did you? 20 A. 21 gentleman, another lawyer in his firm, that was working with 22 him. 23 Q. And who was that? 24 A. I believe his name was George Ioannou. 25 Q. And with respect to initiating wire transfers, I think you No. Did you talk to him? Dr. K never requested any information about the If any documentation was needed, somebody in his But Dr. K specifically never had any inquiries. So with respect to Dr. K, you didn't really deal much with Over the years, it was less frequent. He also had another Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 457 of 580 Gates - Cross 1443 1 indicated you dealt with Dr. K's daughter? 2 A. 3 was actually an attorney. 4 Q. 5 accounts department? 6 A. 7 long last name. 8 Q. 9 clearly, with Dr. K's firm, had the complete authority to make No, his -- he had an accounts department. His accounts department. His daughter Who did you deal with in the The woman I recall is Christina. I don't -- she had a And with respect to initiating a wire transfer, you 10 any transfer that you had requested? 11 A. 12 beginning with Dr. K, so that's correct. 13 Q. 14 especially from Defendant's Exhibit 17, the $3 million, you 15 were never questioned about making those transfers, were you? 16 A. No. 17 Q. Not until you came here? 18 A. That's correct. Yes. Mr. Manafort had given me the authority at the And with respect to the transfers that you've made, and 19 THE COURT: Questioned by whom? 20 BY MR. DOWNING: 21 Q. By anybody? 22 A. Well, I mean, we were asked for supporting documentation, 23 but no specific inquiries into any of the amounts that were 24 wired. 25 Q. And Mr. Manafort wasn't keeping after you on this stuff, Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 458 of 580 Gates - Cross 1444 1 was he? 2 A. 3 on the information from the accounts. 4 good about knowing where the money is and knowing where to 5 spend it. 6 Q. Mr. Manafort, in my opinion, kept fairly frequent updates So it's pretty -- 7 8 THE COURT: Well, he missed the amounts of money you stole from him, though, didn't he? 9 THE WITNESS: 10 THE COURT: Yes, that's correct. So he didn't do it that closely. 11 (Laughter.) 12 13 Mr. Manafort was very THE COURT: How much more do you have with this witness? 14 MR. DOWNING: 15 THE COURT: Quite a bit, Your Honor. All right. I think, ladies and 16 gentlemen, I promised you we would cease sharply at 5:30 17 because one of you has child care responsibilities. 18 books to the right. 19 Pass your We'll do it now. Mr. Gates, you may step down, sir, and you will 20 recall you must refrain from discussing your testimony with 21 anyone, and we will convene tomorrow morning at 9:30. 22 23 24 25 (Witness stood down.) THE COURT: And give me a quantitative estimate, Mr. Downing. MR. DOWNING: One moment, please. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 459 of 580 1445 1 I was going to try to hedge my bet, but my colleagues 2 say if I tell you I should get done in an hour, it looks like 3 we can do it. 4 THE COURT: All right. 5 Remember to refrain from discussing the matter with 6 anyone. 7 it out of your mind. 8 tomorrow morning at 9:30. 9 Don't look at TV or anything else on this case. Don't do any investigation. THE JURORS: 11 THE COURT: It doesn't get any more exciting, does it? (Laughter.) 14 MR. DOWNING: 15 THE COURT: You mean the menu? Yes, and -- that's right, the menu doesn't. 17 18 (Laughter.) THE COURT: But if it's not suitable to you, you'll 19 have to stand behind me in lines at Panera. 20 Mr. Flood out. 21 22 I'll see you Yes, Your Honor. 13 16 Put Have you filled in your menus? 10 12 Good. You may follow (Jury out.) THE COURT: All right. Court will stand in recess 23 until 8:30 tomorrow in another matter, and I'll stand -- start 24 this matter at 9:30. 25 MR. ANDRES: Court stands in recess. Thank you, Your Honor. Have a nice Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 460 of 580 1446 1 night. 2 THE COURT: 3 MR. ANDRES: 4 5 6 I beg your pardon? I said have a nice night. Thank you, Your Honor. THE COURT: Oh, thank you. You-all do the same. (Recess from 5:20 p.m., until 9:30 a.m., August 8, 2018.) 7 8 9 10 CERTIFICATE OF THE REPORTER I certify that the foregoing is a correct transcript of the record of proceedings in the above-entitled matter. 11 12 13 /s/ Anneliese J. Thomson 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 461 of 580 1447 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA ALEXANDRIA DIVISION ------------------------------x UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, . . versus . . PAUL J. MANAFORT, JR., . . Defendant. . ------------------------------x Criminal Action No. 1:18-CR-83 August 8, 2018 Volume VII-A.M. TRANSCRIPT OF JURY TRIAL BEFORE THE HONORABLE T. S. ELLIS, III UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE APPEARANCES: FOR THE GOVERNMENT: UZO ASONYE, AUSA United States Attorney's Office 2100 Jamieson Avenue Alexandria, VA 22314 and GREG D. ANDRES, SAUSA BRANDON L. VAN GRACK, SAUSA Special Counsel's Office U.S. Department of Justice 950 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20530 FOR THE DEFENDANT: JAY ROHIT NANAVATI, ESQ. BRIAN P. KETCHAM, ESQ. Kostelanetz & Fink LLP 601 New Jersey Avenue, N.W. Suite 620 Washington, D.C. 20001 and THOMAS E. ZEHNLE, ESQ. Law Office of Thomas E. Zehnle 601 New Jersey Avenue, N.W. Suite 620 Washington, D.C. 20001 (APPEARANCES CONT'D. ON FOLLOWING PAGE) (Pages 1447 - 1566) COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION OF STENOGRAPHIC NOTES Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 462 of 580 1448 1 APPEARANCES: (Cont'd.) 2 FOR THE DEFENDANT: KEVIN M. DOWNING, ESQ. Law Office of Kevin M. Downing 601 New Jersey Avenue, N.W. Suite 620 Washington, D.C. 20001 and RICHARD W. WESTLING, ESQ. Epstein, Becker & Green, P.C. 1227 25th Street, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20037 OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER: ANNELIESE J. THOMSON, RDR, CRR U.S. District Court, Fifth Floor 401 Courthouse Square Alexandria, VA 22314 (703)299-8595 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 463 of 580 1449 1 INDEX 2 WITNESS EXAMINATION PAGE CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS 1453 1459 1502 DIRECT 1537 3 4 RICHARD GATES (Resumed) 5 6 MORGAN MAGIONOS 7 8 9 E X H I B I T S 10 11 12 13 Defendant's Exhibit No. 17 was received Government Exhibit Nos. 66A, 66C, 66D, 66E, 66G, 67B, and 67C were received Government Exhibit No. 63 was received Government Exhibit Nos. 447A thru 447Q and 456 were received 1484 1542 1546 1549 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 464 of 580 1450 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 (Defendant present, Jury out.) 3 THE COURT: All right. 4 Manafort. 5 and the defendant are present and prepared to proceed. 6 7 It's 18-CR-83. This is U.S. against Paul Let's see. The record will reflect that counsel We were in the midst of your cross-examination? 8 MR. DOWNING: 9 THE COURT: We're almost done, Your Honor. All right. Let's bring the jury in. 10 I'll ask you in front of the jury how much more you have, and 11 then I'll ask you how much you have by way of redirect. 12 Can you give me the news now? 13 (Laughter.) 14 15 THE COURT: grimacing or some other facial -- go ahead, sir. 16 17 18 That will save -- that will save me from MR. ANDRES: I would say less than 30 minutes, Your Honor. THE COURT: 19 Ah. Maybe you want that. (Laughter.) 20 THE COURT: 21 Thank you, Mr. Andres. 22 THE COURT SECURITY OFFICER: 23 You may bring the jury in. One of them is indisposed. 24 25 All right. (Jury present.) THE COURT: All right. You may be seated. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 465 of 580 1451 1 2 3 4 Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. As always, we will commence the day with the calling of the roll by numbers. THE CLERK: Ladies and gentlemen, as I call your number, please answer "present" or "here." 5 Juror 0008. 6 THE JUROR: Present. 7 THE CLERK: Juror 0037. 8 THE JUROR: Present. 9 THE CLERK: Juror 0276. 10 THE JUROR: Present. 11 THE CLERK: Juror 0017. 12 THE JUROR: Present. 13 THE CLERK: Juror 0145. 14 THE JUROR: Present. 15 THE CLERK: Juror 0115. 16 THE JUROR: Present. 17 THE CLERK: Juror 0082. 18 THE JUROR: Present. 19 THE CLERK: Juror 0009. 20 THE JUROR: Present. 21 THE CLERK: Juror 0299. 22 THE JUROR: Present. 23 THE CLERK: Juror 0091. 24 THE JUROR: Present. 25 THE CLERK: Juror 0302. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 466 of 580 1452 1 THE JUROR: Present. 2 THE CLERK: Juror 0060. 3 THE JUROR: Present. 4 THE CLERK: Juror 0296. 5 THE JUROR: Present. 6 THE CLERK: Juror 0054. 7 THE JUROR: Present. 8 THE CLERK: Juror 0127. 9 THE JUROR: Present. 10 THE CLERK: And 0133. 11 THE JUROR: Present. 12 THE COURT: All right. Good morning, again, ladies 13 and gentlemen, and let me begin again by asking you to confirm 14 to me that you were successful in following the Court's 15 instructions to refrain from discussing the matter among 16 yourselves or with anyone or undertaking any investigation. 17 THE JURORS: Yes, Your Honor. 18 THE COURT: Thank you. 19 All right. We're in the midst of the 20 cross-examination of Mr. Gates, and, Mr. Downing, your estimate 21 of how much more, I think, was about a half an hour or 45 22 minutes? 23 24 25 MR. DOWNING: I think I might even get down to 15 minutes, Your Honor. THE COURT: All right. And, Mr. Andres, your Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 467 of 580 Gates - Cross 1 1453 prediction as to how much redirect you would have was? 2 MR. ANDRES: 3 THE COURT: Less than a half-hour, good. 4 All right. Bring Mr. Gates in, please. 5 RICHARD GATES, GOVERNMENT'S WITNESS, PREVIOUSLY SWORN, RESUMED 6 7 THE COURT: under oath. 8 Mr. Gates, you'll recall, sir, you remain You may resume the stand. THE WITNESS: 9 Thank you. CROSS-EXAMINATION (Cont'd.) 10 BY MR. DOWNING: 11 Q. Good morning, Mr. Gates. 12 13 Less than a half-hour, Your Honor. THE COURT: All right. Mr. Downing, you may proceed and I'll give you some latitude for continuity purposes. 14 MR. DOWNING: Thank you, Your Honor. 15 BY MR. DOWNING: 16 Q. 17 were asked some questions about an interview that you gave in 18 July of 2014. 19 A. I do. 20 Q. And it was an interview with FBI agents, correct? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And at that interview were also lawyers from the 23 Department of Justice, correct? 24 A. That is correct. 25 Q. And you were brought into that interview to discuss Mr. Gates, on direct examination from the Government, you Do you remember that? Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 468 of 580 Gates - Cross 1454 1 payments that had come out of the Ukraine into DMP's offshore 2 accounts; is that correct? 3 A. Yes, that was one of the topics. 4 Q. And overall, the investigation you were told was about 5 monies that Mr. Yanukovych may have inappropriately taken out 6 of the Country of Ukraine; is that correct? 7 A. That was what was described to us, yes. 8 Q. And both you and Mr. Manafort met with the FBI; is that 9 correct? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And both you and Mr. Manafort disclosed to the FBI the 12 offshore accounts in Cyprus that we've been discussing, 13 correct? 14 A. 15 did disclose some of the accounts, yes. 16 Q. 17 St. Vincent's and the Grenadines, correct? 18 A. I believe so, yes. 19 Q. And this interview took place in July of 2014? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. And when you met with Mr. Manafort, before having this 22 interview, did Mr. Manafort tell you that you should disclose 23 the activity in the Cypriot accounts? 24 A. 25 information about the questions that were asked of us. I don't know what was in Mr. Manafort's interview, but I And you also disclosed that there were also accounts in He indicated that we should be open and provide the Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 469 of 580 Gates - Cross 1455 1 Q. So I'm going to ask you to take a look at what's been 2 marked Defendant's Exhibit 22. 3 4 And if you could turn in to Page 3? minute and read through that. 5 6 THE COURT: This is a number of pages. Do you want him to read the whole thing? 7 8 And take a MR. DOWNING: I asked him to pay attention to Page 3, Your Honor. 9 THE COURT: All right. 10 BY MR. DOWNING: 11 Q. And the first two paragraphs on Page 4, please, Mr. Gates. 12 A. Okay. 13 Q. So, Mr. Gates, as part of the FBI interview, you had 14 disclosed that DMP and Mr. Manafort had been hired as 15 consultants to assist in campaigns in the Ukraine, correct? 16 A. That is correct. 17 Q. And you also disclosed that payments that came into 18 accounts that were set up in Cyprus were for the offshore 19 consulting in the Ukraine; is that correct? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. And you also disclosed to the FBI that you had been told 22 or Mr. Manafort had been told to open accounts in Cyprus for 23 the ease of payment from the Ukraine; is that correct? 24 A. Yes, that was one of the reasons. 25 Q. And you also indicated that invoices -- you had prepared Okay. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 470 of 580 Gates - Cross 1456 1 invoices for campaign assistance that were also paid into the 2 accounts that were held in Cyprus by DMP International, 3 correct? 4 A. That is correct. 5 Q. And you identified accounts such as Lucicle, correct? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. You identified Bletilla Ventures? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. You identified Leviathan Advisors? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Yiakora was also identified by you? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And LOAV, correct? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And all of these -- you also identified Global Endeavours 16 as something that was set up in St. Vincent's, correct? 17 A. 18 account was in the Grenadines. 19 Q. 20 about the activities in Cyprus and in the Ukraine, correct? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And you felt that the interview you gave in 2014 was a 23 truthful interview about the operations of DMP in the Ukraine 24 and in Cyprus, didn't you? 25 A. Yes. The entity itself was set up in Cyprus. The bank So you and Mr. Manafort agreed to be open and truthful Yes. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 471 of 580 Gates - Cross 1457 1 Q. Did you have occasion to talk to Mr. Manafort after your 2 interview? 3 A. I did. 4 Q. And after his interview? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And did he indicate to you that he was also truthful with 7 the FBI in his interview? 8 A. To the extent of my recollection, yes. 9 Q. Now, there were some questions of you about some loans and 10 the activities in acquiring loans in the 2015-2016 time frame? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Do you recall that? 13 And there were -- there were some questions of you 14 about decreasing income and DMP International's activities; is 15 that correct? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And that a lot of the campaigns had been done and were 18 finished; is that correct? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Now, I believe you -- The last campaign was October of 2014. 21 THE COURT: 22 THE WITNESS: 23 campaign was in October of 2014. 24 25 THE COURT: I'm sorry. I didn't hear that. Oh, sorry, Your Honor. The last Next question. BY MR. DOWNING: Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 472 of 580 Gates - Cross 1458 1 Q. I believe you also testified that there was some 2 outstanding monies that were due to DMP for one of the 3 campaigns that DMP ran? 4 A. For the last campaign, correct. 5 Q. And who was the gentleman, Porochkin? 6 right? 7 A. The outstanding amount was related to the Opposition Bloc. 8 Q. The Opposition Bloc? 9 A. It was a parliamentary election. 10 Q. Thank you. 11 $2.4 million? 12 A. That is correct. 13 Q. And there were efforts by Mr. Manafort and others to try 14 to collect that money; is that correct? 15 A. That is correct. 16 Q. And those efforts continued through 2016; is that correct? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. And with respect to Mr. Manafort's overall financial 19 picture, were you aware in the 2015-2016 time frame, that 20 Mr. Manafort had a net worth of around $20 million? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Did you have any idea? 23 A. I had some idea from some of the accounting statements 24 that Ms. Washkuhn had sent over, but that related more to the 25 business. Poroshenko, is that And the outstanding amount was approximately I was not privy to his personal assets. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 473 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1459 1 Q. And where would you -- if at the time you were looking at 2 these accounting records, where -- in 2015 and '16, where did 3 you think his net worth was? 4 A. 5 properties. 6 million. Net worth, I don't know because of the value of the I thought somewhere in the realm of 6 to 10 7 MR. DOWNING: 8 THE COURT: 9 MR. ANDRES: 10 THE COURT: 11 No further questions. Any redirect? Yes, Your Honor. All right. You may proceed. REDIRECT EXAMINATION 12 BY MR. ANDRES: 13 Q. 14 about some -- about your interview with the FBI in July 2014. 15 Do you remember that? 16 A. I do. 17 Q. Okay. 18 understand that you were under investigation? 19 A. I understood that we were not under investigation. 20 Q. And did you understand that Mr. Manafort was under 21 investigation? 22 A. I understood he was not under investigation either. 23 Q. And you were interviewed by FBI agents; is that correct? 24 A. We were. 25 Q. Was anyone from the IRS there? Now, Mr. Gates, Mr. Downing asked you on cross-examination And at the time of that interview, did you Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 474 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1460 1 A. No. I believe it was DOJ. 2 Q. Were you asked to produce your tax returns? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Was Mr. Manafort, if you know, asked to produce his tax 5 returns? 6 A. I don't know. 7 Q. Okay. 8 accounts closed? 9 A. The majority of the Cypriot accounts were closed, yes. 10 Q. Okay. 11 asked you to take certain action? 12 A. He did. 13 Q. What did he ask you to do? 14 A. He asked me to go meet with one of the Russian -- excuse 15 me, the Ukrainian businessman and to inform him of the FBI 16 interview. 17 Q. And why did he ask you to do that? 18 A. He asked me to do that because he wanted to know more 19 information about one of the entities that was paying 20 Mr. Manafort and to understand if that entity was viewed as a 21 clean entity, meaning that it had only been used to make 22 payments to Mr. Manafort. 23 Q. 24 various of the Cypriot accounts; is that correct? 25 A. At the time of the interview, were the Cypriot And at the time of the interview, had Mr. Manafort And during that interview, there was a reference to Yes. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 475 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1461 1 Q. Do you remember the names of any of those accounts? 2 A. I do. 3 I guess, Monday. 4 Peranova, Global Highways, Serangon, Lucicle, and then there 5 was an additional list that I provided to the FBI that day of 6 accounts that they did not have. 7 Q. 8 accounts? 9 A. No, I did not. 10 Q. Did you tell the FBI that you didn't -- or were you asked 11 by the FBI whether or not you identified those accounts on your 12 tax return? 13 A. I don't recall if we were. 14 Q. And do you know if Mr. Manafort was asked those questions? 15 A. No, I don't. 16 Q. And when you pled guilty in front of the judge in 17 Washington, D.C., did your guilty plea relate to those 18 accounts? 19 A. No. 20 Q. Your guilty plea to conspire -- 21 A. Oh, to the Cyprus accounts? 22 Q. Yes? 23 A. Yes, I did. 24 Q. How did your guilty plea relate to the Cyprus accounts? 25 A. The guilty plea related to the Cyprus accounts to the It was similar to the names that I testified to on, It was Leviathan, Bletilla, Actinet, Did you tell the FBI that there was hidden income in those Sorry. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 476 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1462 1 extent that I was wiring money for Mr. Manafort from those 2 accounts and then not reporting the income in the United States 3 nor the foreign bank accounts. 4 Q. 5 follow-up? 6 A. No, there was not. 7 Q. Okay. 8 interview, were you? 9 A. I was not. 10 Q. And you're not aware -- are you aware from the details of 11 which accounts he was asked about? 12 A. I was not. 13 Q. Okay. 14 he said he only had a recollection about certain accounts? 15 A. I don't know how many accounts Mr. Manafort recalls. 16 Q. But to be clear, the subject matter of that interview was 17 the subject matter of your guilty plea in large respect? 18 A. 19 20 21 22 Okay. And after this FBI interview, was there any And you weren't present during Mr. Manafort's Would you be surprised if he -- if you learned that It was, yes. THE COURT: Well, what was the subject of his guilty plea is recorded in the plea agreement. Were you charged in the District of Columbia with -how many counts? 23 THE WITNESS: 24 THE COURT: 25 I believe it was 12 counts, Your Honor. And all of those counts with the exception of the one or two that you pled guilty to, I think Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 477 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1 1463 one, were dismissed as a result of your plea; is that right? 2 THE WITNESS: 3 THE COURT: I believe so. So you pled guilty to two counts, one of 4 which was in the indictment in the District of Columbia, and 5 the other one related to conduct outside of that. 6 THE WITNESS: 7 THE COURT: 8 BY MR. ANDRES: 9 Q. That is correct. Next question. With respect to the Count 1 conspiracy against the United 10 States that you pled guilty to, did that relate to the foreign 11 Cypriot accounts? 12 A. It did. 13 Q. And did it relate to the filing of a false tax return for 14 Mr. Manafort? 15 A. It did. 16 Q. And did it relate to the filing of a false tax return as 17 it related to income? 18 A. It did. 19 Q. And was that income hidden in the accounts in Cyprus? 20 A. It was. 21 Q. And did it relate to a false filing as it related to the 22 failure to disclose foreign bank accounts? 23 A. It did. 24 Q. And did that relate to the Cypriot accounts? 25 A. Yes. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 478 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1464 1 Q. And did you plead guilty to conspiring to fail to file 2 FBAR accounts for Mr. Manafort's foreign bank accounts? 3 A. I did. 4 Q. And did that relate to the overseas accounts in the 5 Cyprus? 6 A. They did. 7 Q. On cross-examination, Mr. Gates, you were asked about your 8 guilty plea and whether or not you made false statements to the 9 FBI. Do you remember that? 10 A. I do. 11 Q. Mr. Gates, did you make false statements to the FBI? 12 A. Only the one second count. 13 Q. And that, that was a false statement that you made to the 14 FBI? 15 THE COURT: 16 THE WITNESS: 17 Oh, to the FBI? No, it was not to the FBI. 18 19 You're leading now. THE COURT: question you asked. 20 This jury is not going to know what Re-ask your question. MR. ANDRES: Sure. Certainly, Judge. 21 BY MR. ANDRES: 22 Q. 23 that correct? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. You were asked about that on cross-examination by You pled guilty to making a false statement to the FBI; is Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 479 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1465 1 Mr. Downing? 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. What did you say to the FBI and the Government that was 4 false? 5 A. 6 that Mr. Manafort attended with a United States Congressman and 7 had met with Mr. Manafort in 2016 regarding that meeting. 8 When the FBI confronted me with a document that 9 I indicated to them that I had been aware of a meeting showed that Mr. Manafort had, in fact, met with the Congressman 10 and discussed a specific issue, I had not informed the FBI of 11 that, and I was under oath, and I made a mistake, and I regret 12 it. 13 Q. And that statement was false? 14 A. It was. 15 Q. You knowingly and intentionally made a false statement to 16 the FBI? 17 A. That is correct. 18 Q. As you sit here today, do you have any doubt in your mind 19 as to whether that was a false statement? 20 A. No. 21 Q. You were asked questions about your plea agreement on 22 cross-examination by Mr. Downing. 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Do you remember that Mr. Downing asked you about the 25 possibility of getting probation? Do you remember that? Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 480 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1466 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And do you remember that Mr. Downing asked if the terms of 3 your plea agreement let your lawyer argue that you should have 4 probation and no jail time? 5 A. I do. 6 Q. And Mr. Downing asked you if such a motion would be 7 unopposed by the Special Counsel's Office? 8 that? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. With respect to the promises that have been made with your 11 plea agreement, are they all contained in your written plea 12 agreement? 13 A. They are. 14 Q. Okay. 15 during your direct examination; is that right? 16 A. I did. 17 Q. I'd like to ask you to turn to Government Exhibit 2F, 18 which is already in evidence. Do you remember that? Do you remember And you testified about your written plea agreement 19 MR. ANDRES: 20 THE COURT: Can I publish that, Your Honor? Yes, you may. 21 BY MR. ANDRES: 22 Q. Can you tell me what Government Exhibit 2F is? 23 A. This is a copy of my plea agreement. 24 Q. Okay. 25 the Government; is that correct? And this contains all of the promises in it from Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 481 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1467 1 A. That is correct. 2 Q. And all the promises that you made to the Government? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And this document was entered into the docket in the 5 District Court in Washington, D.C.; is that correct? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Can I ask you to turn to Paragraph 9 on Page 6? 8 A. Okay. 9 Q. On Paragraph 9, what is the title of Paragraph 9? 10 A. "Government's Obligations." 11 Q. Okay. 12 And -- okay. And Paragraph 9 starts on Page 6; is that right? 13 A. Yes, it does. 14 Q. And it continues onto Page 7? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Okay. 17 can you read that to the jury? 18 A. 19 at the time of sentencing the nature and extent of your 20 client's cooperation or lack of cooperation." 21 Q. I'm sorry, Mr. Gates, on Page 7? 22 A. Oh, sorry. 23 Q. The first full sentence that starts with "Defendant." 24 A. "Defendant will then be free to argue for any sentence 25 below the advisory Sentencing Guidelines range calculated by Yes. With respect to the first full sentence on Page 7, "The Government will bring to the Court's attention Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 482 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1468 1 the Probation Office, including probation." 2 Q. And read the next sentence. 3 A. "Depending on the precise nature of the defendant's 4 substantial assistance, the Office may not oppose defendant's 5 application." 6 Q. 7 oppose a sentence of probation? 8 A. No, it did not. 9 Q. Okay. Did the, did the Government agree in this document to not When Mr. Downing was questioning you on 10 cross-examination, did he show you this document? 11 A. No, he did not. 12 Q. Has the Government made any promise to you about what your 13 sentence will be? 14 A. No, it has not. 15 Q. On cross-examination, you were asked questions about your 16 stealing money or embezzlement from Mr. Manafort. 17 remember that? 18 A. I do. 19 Q. Have you ever been charged with any crimes relating to 20 that money? 21 A. I have not. 22 Q. In your first indictment in Washington, were you charged 23 with any crimes? 24 A. No. 25 Q. How about here in the Eastern District of Virginia? Do you Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 483 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1469 1 A. No. 2 Q. Did Mr. Manafort ever confront you about that? 3 A. He did not. 4 Q. As far as you understand, your understanding, how did the 5 Government know that you embezzled money from Mr. Manafort? 6 A. I told the Government that I did. 7 Q. And how did Mr. Downing know, to the best of your 8 understanding, that you -- that you embezzled money from 9 Mr. Manafort? 10 A. As I understood, Mr. Downing received the 302 reports from 11 the FBI during my interviews, so that he was able to gather the 12 information from that document. 13 Q. With respect to -- 14 MR. DOWNING: 15 THE COURT: 16 MR. DOWNING: 17 Objection, Your Honor. Speculation. That's not an objection. How would he know how I learned of this fraud? 18 THE COURT: The proper way to have proceeded is when 19 he asked the question, you should have objected. 20 and answered the question, and I'm going to overrule the 21 objection. 22 He's asked But you don't know, one way or the other, how he 23 learned of it, do you? 24 THE WITNESS: 25 THE COURT: I do not. All right. That takes care of it. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 484 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1 BY MR. ANDRES: 2 Q. 1470 With respect to -- 3 MR. ANDRES: 4 THE COURT: 5 BY MR. ANDRES: 6 Q. May I continue, Your Honor? I'm sorry. Yes, you may. With -- 7 THE COURT: 8 BY MR. ANDRES: 9 Q. But finish. With respect to the funds that you took from Mr. Manafort, 10 how did you charge those? 11 A. When you say "charge," what do you mean? 12 Q. Did you charge them as expenses? 13 A. Yes, the majority, yes. 14 Q. Okay. 15 for? 16 A. 17 most part, were ultimately reimbursed to the Ukrainian clients. 18 Q. 19 money or income because the money was passed on to -- 20 And with respect to expenses, how were those paid The expenses, across the board for the company, for the So Mr. Manafort wouldn't have noticed any loss in his THE COURT: The question is now leading. 21 BY MR. ANDRES: 22 Q. With respect to those funds, who paid for them? 23 A. The Ukrainian businessman. 24 Q. During the cross-examination, you were asked questions 25 about the FBAR filings and KWC. Do you remember that? Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 485 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1471 1 A. I do. 2 Q. And you pled guilty to -- to conspiring with Mr. Manafort 3 to fail to file FBARs; is that correct? 4 A. That is correct. 5 Q. And that related to overseas accounts? 6 A. It did. 7 Q. And what foreign countries were those accounts in? 8 A. Cyprus, the Grenadines, and one in the United Kingdom. 9 Q. And they involved bank accounts? 10 A. They did. 11 Q. Mr. Gates, did you need to -- did you need to consult with 12 an expert to know that Cyprus was a foreign country? 13 A. No. 14 Q. Did you need to consult with an expert to know that those 15 were bank accounts? 16 A. No. 17 Q. Did you need to consult with an expert to know that the 18 money Mr. Manafort earned from the income in foreign bank 19 accounts in Cyprus had to be disclosed on your tax returns? 20 A. No. 21 Q. With respect to your own conduct, you were charged with 22 respect to failing to file FBARs for your own accounts as well; 23 is that correct? 24 A. That is correct. 25 Q. And where were those accounts located? Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 486 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1472 1 A. United Kingdom. 2 Q. Did you consult with an expert to know that the United 3 Kingdom was a foreign country? 4 A. No, I did not. 5 Q. And did you consult with an expert -- 6 THE COURT: 7 MR. ANDRES: 8 This is all irrelevant to this case. He was asked -- I'm sorry. Your Honor, I'll move on. 9 THE COURT: Yes, you will. 10 BY MR. ANDRES: 11 Q. 12 about EVO Holdings on cross-examination. 13 A. I do. 14 Q. Can you explain to the jury what EVO Holdings is? 15 A. EVO Holdings is a Cyprus-based company that was set up to 16 hold an asset that was purchased through Mr. Manafort's private 17 equity fund. 18 Q. 19 Holdings? 20 A. There was. 21 Q. What bank accounts? 22 A. It was an EVO Holdings bank account in Cyprus. 23 Q. Okay. 24 issues, there were communications with Mr. Manafort's tax 25 accountants; is that right? With respect to EVO Holdings, you were asked questions Okay. Do you remember that? Were there any bank accounts related to EVO During the discussion about the EVO Holdings Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 487 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1473 1 A. Correct. 2 Q. The accountants at KWC? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And Mr. Downing asked you about that on cross-examination? 5 A. He did. 6 Q. Okay. 7 anyone disclose to the tax accountants or the tax preparers 8 that there was a foreign bank account related to EVO Holdings? 9 A. No. During the discussion about EVO Holdings, did The only piece of information that was disclosed was 10 that there were foreign shares. 11 Q. 12 Mr. Manafort's taxes, did either you or Mr. Manafort disclose 13 to the tax preparers that there were foreign accounts? 14 A. No. 15 Q. And if you give false information, Mr. Gates, to tax 16 preparers, can you expect appropriate advice? 17 A. No. 18 Q. You were asked questions on cross-examination about your 19 trial preparation. 20 A. I do. 21 Q. Mr. Downing asked you if anyone from the Special Counsel's 22 office told you how to answer any questions; is that right? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Were you told how to answer any questions? 25 A. The only answer I was told is to tell the truth. And at any time during the time that you worked on Do you remember that? Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 488 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1474 1 Q. You were shown a series of exhibits by Mr. Manafort -- I'm 2 sorry -- by Mr. Downing. 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. You were shown Defense Exhibit 14. 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Do you have that up there? 7 A. I do. 8 Q. What does that relate to, Defense Exhibit 14? 9 A. It relates to a wire transfer request from one of the Do you remember that? 10 offshore accounts. 11 Q. And for what account? 12 A. Global Endeavour. 13 Q. Who set up Global Endeavour? 14 A. Our lawyers in Cyprus. 15 Q. Who specifically? 16 A. At the direction of Mr. Manafort. 17 Q. And what money was included in the Global Endeavor 18 account? 19 A. Funds from the Ukrainian political elections. 20 Q. And that's a foreign bank account; is that right? 21 A. That's correct. 22 Q. And Mr. Manafort had money in it? 23 A. He did. 24 Q. Did he disclose that on his taxes? 25 A. To my knowledge, no. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 489 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1475 1 Q. And that's what you pled guilty to as part of the Count 1 2 conspiracy; is that correct? 3 A. That is correct. 4 Q. Can you look at Government Exhibit -- I'm sorry -- Defense 5 Exhibit 15? 6 THE COURT: 7 MR. ANDRES: 8 THE WITNESS: 9 And avoid leading. Yes, sir. Okay. BY MR. ANDRES: 10 Q. What is Defense Exhibit 15? 11 A. It's another wire request form for an offshore account. 12 Q. What offshore account? 13 A. Again, it's Global Endeavour. 14 Q. And who set up Global Endeavour? 15 A. It was at the direction of Mr. Manafort. 16 17 THE COURT: asked: He didn't ask you whose direction. He Who set it up? 18 THE WITNESS: 19 THE COURT: Okay. The Cypriot attorneys set it up. Next question. 20 BY MR. ANDRES: 21 Q. And what funds were included in that? 22 A. Funds from the work from political campaigns. 23 Q. Okay. 24 A. No. 25 Q. It's a chart. Do you have Defense Exhibit 17 there as well? Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 490 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1 A. 2 3 1476 No, I do not. MR. ANDRES: here. Do you have it, 17? Oh, it's right Can I use that? 4 MR. DOWNING: 5 MR. ANDRES: 6 MR. DOWNING: Yeah, sure. Okay. Mr. Flood, can I ask you -- Your Honor, we don't object to 7 Defendant's Exhibit 17 being admitted into evidence at this 8 time. 9 10 MR. ANDRES: It's not admitted, Your Honor. We're not asking to admit it. 11 THE COURT: 12 MR. ANDRES: 13 MR. DOWNING: You don't want to admit it? No, I'm not asking to admit it. Your Honor, we would move it in as a 14 1006 summary that's been authenticated as accurate by the 15 United States Government. 16 17 THE COURT: All right. argument in another context. 18 MR. ANDRES: 19 THE COURT: 20 MR. ANDRES: 21 THE COURT: 22 MR. DOWNING: I think I've heard a 1006 Do you oppose its admission? Your Honor -I'm just asking. Yes. Yes or no? It's not complete. All right. Your Honor, I believe that is an 23 inaccurate representation by the United States Government. 24 That came directly out of a charging instrument that this 25 Government returned in this district. That's what this is. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 491 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1 It's a copy of that. 2 3 1477 It is definitely complete. MR. ANDRES: Your Honor, I'm happy to respond or come to the sidebar, whatever Your Honor pleases. 4 THE COURT: 5 MR. ANDRES: You do want to use this document? I'm going to use it in the same way 6 defense did, by asking the defense -- the witness to look at 7 it. But -- 8 THE COURT: 9 MR. ANDRES: 10 All right. THE COURT: -- this is a copy of the -But they're now offering -- they're going 11 to offer it, so I'll have to consider whether I admit it, and 12 the allegation -- I'll have you come to the bench, but the 13 allegation is that the document came from the Government, was 14 attached to a charging document. 15 Come to the bench. 16 (Bench conference on the record.) 17 THE COURT: 18 19 Mr. Downing, where do you think the document came from? MR. DOWNING: This is a line-by-line copy of what was 20 contained in the indictment that was returned here in the 21 Eastern District of Virginia. 22 THE COURT: 23 MR. DOWNING: 24 THE COURT: 25 MR. DOWNING: This exact document -Correct. -- or did somebody copy it? Copy, an exact copy. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 492 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1478 1 THE COURT: 2 MR. DOWNING: 3 THE COURT: 4 5 6 She's got to get all of us -Sorry. -- and if we're both talking, she can't get us. Is this a verbatim, exact copy of something that was attached to the indictment? 7 MR. DOWNING: 8 THE COURT: 9 MR. DOWNING: Yes. We represent it is. All right. And you want to offer it? Yes, as a summary. This is the 10 $3 million that we questioned Mr. Gates about in his 11 embezzlement. 12 13 14 THE COURT: And you also want to question this witness about this? MR. ANDRES: 15 exhibit, Your Honor. 16 address that. 17 THE COURT: 18 MR. ANDRES: Not if it's going to be admitted as an I'm happy to wait, but I'd like to Yes, go ahead. Okay. First of all, I'm on questioning 19 now, and I'm not aware that defense is allowed to admit 20 exhibits while I'm there. 21 indictment -- 22 23 THE COURT: Putting that aside, I think the I think you should put it aside because I am going to get a request to have it admitted -- 24 MR. ANDRES: 25 THE COURT: Fair enough. -- so I need to deal with it. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 493 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1479 1 But you're correct to point out that this isn't the 2 time to admit a piece of evidence on behalf of the defendant. 3 I understand that. 4 5 MR. ANDRES: If you're going to send the indictment back to the jury -- 6 THE COURT: 7 MR. ANDRES: 8 THE COURT: 9 This is from the indictment, Judge. I'm not. Well, this is the -At the moment, I'm not. I'm going to give you an opportunity and you an opportunity to address 10 whether I should. 11 preview of what I'm thinking, and you can address it. 12 want it; you may not want it. 13 I'm inclined not to. I'll give you a You may I don't know. There's a great deal in the indictment that's sort of 14 argument. 15 people, and I'm not inclined to admit anything other than the 16 exact counts and none of the previous paragraphs. 17 hand, I'm inclined to leave it all out. 18 enough information. 19 I'm going to send something back with the jury. 20 you an opportunity to tell me what you think about that, and I 21 will give you an opportunity to tell me as well. 22 It's the government's argument about these sleazy On the other I expect you've given But this isn't the time to decide whether I will give Now, what -- Mr. Andres is correct, this isn't an 23 opportunity for you to offer because he's in the midst of his, 24 but if I'm going to admit it, if I were Mr. Andres, I'd like to 25 know that now before I am questioning a witness. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 494 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1480 1 Wouldn't you? 2 MR. ANDRES: 3 THE COURT: 4 Yes, Judge. All right. So I'm going to consider it now. 5 MR. ANDRES: My argument, Judge, is this is part of 6 the indictment, and if Mr. Downing wants to include it, he 7 should have to include the entire indictment. 8 out of it are misleading. 9 I don't doubt at all -- 10 11 Snipping pieces THE COURT: You mean what you attached makes the indictment misleading? 12 MR. ANDRES: 13 THE COURT: No, it's not attached. I'm not moved by an argument that he 14 either has to swallow the whole pill or none of it. 15 interested in is whether if he offers -- you're going to offer 16 it. 17 MR. DOWNING: 18 THE COURT: 19 All I'm Yes, Your Honor. And if you're going to object to it, let's resolve that now. 20 MR. ANDRES: That was my argument, Judge. If you're 21 going to -- if that's unpersuasive to you, then I'm ready to 22 proceed, and I don't have any objection to it being admitted, 23 and that's that. 24 objected. 25 indictment. I just don't think it's -- listen, I have I don't doubt that Mr. Downing took this from the That's fine. We can check it afterwards. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 495 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1 2 3 4 THE COURT: Well, I hope somebody from the government checked it before they attached it to an indictment. MR. ANDRES: It's not attached, Judge. It's in the indictment. 5 THE COURT: 6 MR. ANDRES: 7 1481 Oh. It's not an attachment. body of the indictment. 8 THE COURT: 9 MR. ANDRES: This is the That's the problem. I see. I see. The indictment -- and the reason -- I'm 10 sorry, the reason why I raised the question of whether you're 11 going to admit the indictment is this is tantamount to 12 including the indictment and sending it back to the jury, 13 because it's part of the indictment. 14 THE COURT: Well, I assume, though, that the 15 government would have checked something. 16 something false in an indictment. 17 MR. ANDRES: 18 THE COURT: 19 MR. ANDRES: They wouldn't put That's not the issue. Well, it's an issue for me. No, the question isn't whether there's 20 something inaccurate in the indictment. 21 take what Mr. Downing has marked as Government (sic) Exhibit 22 17, which we got for the first time last night, I haven't 23 checked that against the indictment to see if it matches up. 24 I'm not doubting that it -- 25 THE COURT: I'm saying I didn't Well, I will give you that opportunity if Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 496 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1 I admit it. 1482 You may certainly go and check it. 2 Go ahead. 3 MR. ANDRES: That's it. This is the indictment. 4 This is excerpts from the indictment, and that's what my 5 objection is, is it's only part of the indictment, and 6 that's -- unless Your Honor is going to send the whole 7 indictment back, I think it's misleading. 8 THE COURT: 9 MR. DOWNING: 10 All right. What's your view? The chart itself was in the indictment as a -- 11 THE COURT: 12 MR. DOWNING: 13 THE COURT: 14 MR. DOWNING: The chart. You're referring to -- This is the chart. -- these three pages? Correct. Appear in the indictment as a 15 summary of the transfers that came from the offshore accounts 16 of DMP International that went to Mr. Gates and to Mr. Gates' 17 account for which he did not report on his tax return. 18 exactly what I asked him about yesterday. 19 20 It also represents items that we believe are embezzlement. 21 22 23 That's We also questioned about that. That's the purpose of this, using this chart. That's it. THE COURT: I'll give you an opportunity to look and 24 ensure that it is complete and that they haven't omitted 25 something, but -- and, of course, you have an opportunity -- Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 497 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1 1483 your case isn't closed yet. 2 MR. ANDRES: 3 THE COURT: 4 You may do as you wish. Okay. But I don't have it in the record yet. We'll have to do that on recross if you -- yes? 5 MR. ASONYE: 6 THE COURT: We were just consulting with each other. All right. If you do that, please ask -- 7 please say you need an opportunity to consult. 8 consult with him. 9 understand that. Then you can And I'm talking, and it interrupts me. I think you would feel the same way. 10 Do you need an opportunity to consult? 11 MR. ASONYE: 12 You No. No, we don't. I said my piece, Your Honor. 13 THE COURT: 14 MR. DOWNING: 15 THE COURT: Anything further, Mr. Downing? No, Your Honor. All right. We had this bench conference. 16 I'm not clear that I have any issue in front of me. 17 wish to offer this as an exhibit at the appropriate time, I'll 18 consider it. 19 rule on it. 20 21 22 If you You may state your objection then, and I will As of this time, there's -- at this moment, I don't think I have a question before me. MR. ANDRES: Your Honor, I don't object to its 23 admission since you're going to admit it, and we might as well 24 do it now because if he's going to get to admit it and show it, 25 I think to avoid a re-redirect examination, we might as well Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 498 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1 1484 get it over with. 2 So if Mr. Downing wants to admit it now, that's fine. 3 I'm going to ask to publish it, and I'll ask Mr. Gates about 4 it. 5 6 MR. DOWNING: 17 into evidence. 7 8 THE COURT: evidence.) MR. ANDRES: 12 THE COURT: Thank you, sir. You'll be entitled to ask him questions on re-redirect. 14 MR. ANDRES: 15 THE COURT: 16 MR. ANDRES: 17 redirect. 18 it. 19 Oh, so not now? Yes. Oh, yeah. This is just the first I'm not -- the point was to avoid all the rest of THE COURT: All right. 20 you're in the midst of redirect. 21 MR. ANDRES: 22 I'll overrule the (Defendant's Exhibit No. 17 was received in 11 13 17, all right. objection and admit it. 9 10 So, Your Honor, I move Defense Exhibit Well, that's right, because Just the first one, Judge. I know it feels like the fifth one. 23 THE COURT: 24 MR. ANDRES: 25 THE COURT: I hope it's the last one. I'm trying. Go ahead. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 499 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1485 1 MR. ANDRES: 2 (End of bench conference.) 3 THE COURT: 4 MR. ANDRES: 5 THE COURT: 6 All right. You may proceed. Okay. For the record, I have admitted Defense Exhibit 17 over the objection of the Government. 7 MR. ANDRES: 8 THE COURT: 9 Thank you. Proceed. May I publish it, Your Honor? Yes, you may. BY MR. ANDRES: 10 Q. Mr. Gates, do you have document Defense Exhibit 17? 11 A. Not yet. 12 Q. You don't have it? 13 A. No. 14 MR. ANDRES: 15 THE COURT: 16 MR. ANDRES: 17 THE COURT: 18 Do you have another copy? He has it in front of him on the screen. Oh, fine. Or at least one screen of it. It's three pages. 19 MR. ANDRES: Okay. 20 BY MR. ANDRES: 21 Q. 22 charges that were brought against you in the Eastern District 23 of Virginia; is that correct? 24 A. It does. 25 Q. And with respect to those charges, they relate to your Mr. Gates, the -- the chart in Government's 17 includes Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 500 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1486 1 income taxes? 2 A. They do. 3 Q. And the failure for you to declare income? 4 A. That is correct. 5 Q. With respect to those charges, were you guilty of all 6 those charges? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And do they also relate to your failure to, to disclose 9 foreign bank accounts on your tax returns? 10 A. They do. 11 Q. And were you guilty of all those charges? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Mr. Downing asked you questions about these various 14 transfers. 15 true? 16 A. That is correct. 17 Q. And they were included in your indictment? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Can I ask you to look at the chart, the first entries for 20 Serangon -- I may be mispronouncing it, so excuse me -- 21 Serangon Holdings Limited? 22 Do you see that? Those were identified by the Government; isn't it 23 A. I do. 24 Q. And what does it say about the country of origin? 25 A. Cyprus. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 501 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1487 1 Q. And what is Serangon Holdings Limited? 2 A. It was an entity set up in Cyprus. 3 Q. Okay. 4 A. At the direction of Mr. Manafort. 5 Q. And whose money was in it? 6 7 By who? THE COURT: you: Well, he didn't ask you that. He asked Who set it up? 8 THE WITNESS: 9 THE COURT: The Cypriot attorneys set it up. Next question. 10 BY MR. ANDRES: 11 Q. Who asked the Cypriot lawyers to set it up? 12 A. In this account, I don't know specifically, but either 13 Mr. Manafort asked the Cypriot attorney or he asked me to ask 14 the Cypriot attorney. 15 Q. 16 tax preparers, did either you or Mr. Manafort disclose Serangon 17 Holdings? 18 A. No, we did not. 19 Q. There's another listing a few down before the shading for 20 Global Highway Limited. 21 A. Global Highway Limited is another entity in Cyprus. 22 Q. And who controlled that? 23 A. Mr. Manafort. 24 Q. And whose money was in that? 25 A. Mr. Manafort's. During the time that you were dealing with Mr. Manafort's What is Global Highway Limited? Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 502 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1 Q. 2 preparers? 3 A. We did not. 4 Q. And below that -- 1488 Did you disclose that account to Mr. Manafort's tax 5 THE COURT: 6 THE WITNESS: 7 THE COURT: 8 THE WITNESS: 9 THE COURT: I'm sorry, what was your answer? We did not, Your Honor. Are you saying "we" or "I"? I did not. Next question. 10 BY MR. ANDRES: 11 Q. 12 to his tax preparers? 13 A. To my knowledge, no, he did not. 14 Q. Below that is Peranova. 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. What is Peranova? 17 A. Peranova is another Cyprus attorney that was used for 18 political work. 19 Q. And who controlled that? 20 A. Mr. Manafort. 21 Q. Did you disclose that to Mr. Manafort's tax preparers? 22 A. I did not. 23 Q. Why not? 24 A. Because Mr. Manafort had asked us not to -- said we did 25 not need to disclose the foreign accounts to the accountants. Do you know if Mr. Manafort disclosed that to your tax -- Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 503 of 580 Gates - Redirect Okay. 1489 1 Q. And then for Peranova there are two entries. 2 is for $48,000. 3 A. It is. 4 Q. Okay. 5 A. That is correct. 6 Q. And what year is that in? 7 A. That is tax year 2011. 8 Q. And that money was income to Mr. Manafort; is that 9 correct? One Is that money you drew from that account? And the other was for $100,000; is that right? 10 A. This actually was income to me. 11 Q. Income to you, but the money when it first went to 12 Peranova, what was that? 13 A. That was income from the political work. 14 Q. And that was never a loan, right? 15 A. That's correct. 16 Q. There was no loan from some businessman in the Ukraine to 17 Mr. Manafort -- 18 THE COURT: You're leading. 19 BY MR. ANDRES: 20 Q. 21 Mr. Manafort that you were aware of? 22 A. No. 23 Q. Okay. 24 "Bletilla Ventures." 25 A. Was there ever a loan from a businessman in the Ukraine to Just one more. At the bottom there it says, What is that? Bletilla is another company that was incorporated in Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 504 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1490 1 Cyprus. 2 Q. Okay. 3 A. Mr. Manafort. 4 Q. And did you disclose that to Mr. Manafort's tax preparers? 5 A. I did not. 6 Q. Why not? 7 A. At the direction of Mr. Manafort. 8 9 And who controlled that? MR. ANDRES: Can I just have one moment to look at the chart, Judge? 10 THE COURT: Yes, you may. 11 MR. ANDRES: 12 Just one or two more questions about the chart. I'm just trying to speed this along. 13 BY MR. ANDRES: 14 Q. Do you see a reference to Pompolo Limited? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. What is that? 17 A. Pompolo Limited is an entity that was set up in the United 18 Kingdom. 19 Q. Okay. 20 A. That was controlled by me and Mr. Manafort. 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. I did not. 23 Q. Under that is Lucicle. 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. What is Lucicle? And who controlled that entity? And did you disclose that to your tax preparer? Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 505 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1491 1 A. Lucicle is a company based in Cyprus. 2 Q. Okay. 3 A. Mr. Manafort. 4 Q. Under that Mr. Downing asked some questions about Cypriot 5 Agent. 6 A. I do. 7 Q. You didn't have your own lawyer in Cyprus, did you? 8 A. I did not. 9 Q. You didn't have your own accounts in Cyprus, did you? 10 A. No. 11 Q. At some point, the accounts moved from Cyprus to the 12 Grenadines, St. Vincent and the Grenadines? 13 A. Correct. 14 Q. And was there a transition period? 15 A. There was. 16 Q. What happened in that transition period? 17 A. In terms of? 18 Q. In terms of where the money was put, what accounts, where 19 was the money held? 20 A. 21 Cypriot Agent account in Cyprus. 22 Q. By Dr. K, is that right? 23 A. That's correct. 24 Q. The Cypriot Agent account is not yours, is it? 25 A. No. And who controlled that entity? Do you see that? The money -- oh, the remaining money was held in the It was actually an internal account that actually Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 506 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1492 1 designated by the company that the money remained in that 2 company, so it was simply a list of all the companies that we 3 had had prior to Cyprus and the remaining balance in those 4 companies. 5 Q. 6 Mr. Manafort having trouble moving the money from Cyprus to the 7 United States? Do you remember that Mr. Downing asked you questions about 8 Do you remember that? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And he asked you if that caused difficulties? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And it caused problems for Mr. Manafort's business? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Do you know why banks in the United States wouldn't accept 15 Mr. Manafort's money from Cyprus? 16 THE COURT: 17 MR. ANDRES: 18 THE COURT: 19 MR. ANDRES: 20 MR. DOWNING: Wouldn't this be hearsay? It's his understanding. His understanding isn't relevant. Well, that's what he was asked about. Actually, his answer was yes, he was -- 21 the banks didn't tell him why. 22 yesterday, Your Honor, but objection. 23 24 25 MR. ANDRES: That was his statement Calls for hearsay. But he asked the exact same question, Your Honor. THE COURT: His understanding isn't really relevant, Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 507 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1 1493 is it? 2 MR. ANDRES: 3 THE COURT: 4 MR. DOWNING: It is. Mr. Downing? Your Honor, I believe yesterday when I 5 asked Mr. Gates if he knew why the accounts were closed, he 6 said the banks did not indicate. 7 accounts. 8 9 10 They just closed the So I don't think he's got a personal understanding of why the banks closed the accounts. That was his testimony yesterday. 11 MR. ANDRES: 12 THE COURT: We could ask him. All right. I'll permit it, although it 13 leaves open the question of why he didn't answer it in the 14 first place when he was asked the question. 15 BY MR. ANDRES: 16 Q. 17 banks wouldn't accept Mr. Manafort's money from Cyprus? 18 A. Mr. Gates, do you have an understanding as to why U.S. It wasn't Mr. Manafort's -- 19 THE COURT: 20 THE WITNESS: 21 22 23 Do you have an understanding? I have a response from one of the banks that we banked with, yes, Your Honor. THE COURT: I thought you answered Mr. Downing's question that the banks didn't tell you. 24 THE WITNESS: 25 THE COURT: That's correct, that was the answer. Now, you're remembering that one bank Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 508 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1 told you. 2 3 THE WITNESS: No, no. THE COURT: Just a moment. Now you're telling that the bank had indicated something to you? 6 THE WITNESS: 7 yesterday, Your Honor. 8 9 The one bank had indicated to us that they are able to -- 4 5 1494 THE COURT: I'll exclude that. 10 BY MR. ANDRES: 11 Q. Yeah. It follows with my answer All right. That would be hearsay, so Continue. Did anything about the fact that Mr. -- 12 THE COURT: By hearsay, ladies and gentlemen, I mean 13 that if I permitted a witness to testify as to what that 14 witness had been told by somebody else, that somebody else 15 couldn't be cross-examined here in court, so that's why it's 16 excluded. 17 Proceed, Mr. Andres. 18 BY MR. ANDRES: 19 Q. 20 time moving his money from Cyprus to the United States, did 21 anything about that prevent him, as you understand it, from 22 disclosing his overseas accounts to his tax payers? 23 A. No. 24 Q. Yesterday, Mr. Downing asked you some questions about a 25 relationship that you had. Did anything about the fact that Mr. Manafort had a hard Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 509 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1 1495 Do you remember that? 2 A. I do. 3 Q. How long did that last? 4 A. Approximately five months. 5 Q. And have you discussed that with your wife? 6 A. I have. 7 Q. How long ago was that? 8 A. Almost ten years ago. 9 Q. When it happened, did you -- did you tell Mr. Manafort? 10 A. I did. 11 Q. And was he supportive? 12 A. He was. 13 Q. Did he fire you? 14 A. He did not. 15 Q. Mr. Downing asked you some questions about bonuses that 16 you received. 17 Do you remember that? 18 A. I do. 19 Q. Where did those bonuses -- how were they made? 20 A. They were paid from Cyprus. 21 Q. Okay. 22 preparers, were they? 23 A. No. 24 Q. Did Mr. Manafort report it to his tax payers? 25 A. He did not. And those bonuses weren't disclosed to the tax I failed to report those on my income tax. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 510 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1496 1 Q. That was his secret, right? 2 A. As I understand, yes. 3 Q. Did he report it to Ms. Washkuhn? 4 A. He did not. 5 THE COURT: 6 MR. DOWNING: Just a moment. Objection, Your Honor. There is no 7 evidence that Mr. Manafort knew that he was taking this money. 8 This is embezzlement. 9 him what -- 10 THE COURT: This isn't a bonus. That's not the question that's being 11 asked. 12 reported bonuses that were paid to him. The question that's being asked is whether Mr. Manafort 13 14 MR. DOWNING: That's not what I understood the question -- 15 THE COURT: 16 MR. ANDRES: 17 THE COURT: 18 MR. ANDRES: 19 THE COURT: 20 is not an informal proceeding. 21 MR. ANDRES: 22 THE COURT: 23 24 25 How could he ask pending. Is that your question, Mr. Andres? Yeah. I beg your pardon? Yes, Judge. All right. Be careful about that. Understood. This With -- I'm not done yet. There's an objection So what's your objection? MR. DOWNING: My objection, I thought he was asking a question about was the money he took out of these offshore Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 511 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1497 1 accounts that was unknown to Mr. Manafort that he calls 2 bonuses, that were reported by Mr. Manafort on tax returns. 3 That's what I understood the question. 4 5 THE COURT: Mr. Andres? 6 MR. ANDRES: 7 THE COURT: 8 MR. ANDRES: 9 THE COURT: 10 That was the question, wasn't it, Yes. I beg your pardon? Yes, Judge. All right. I'll overrule the objection. He may answer. 11 THE WITNESS: 12 BY MR. ANDRES: 13 Q. Sorry, can you repeat the question? With respect to the -- 14 THE COURT: He wants to know whether the monies that 15 were paid to Mr. Manafort as bonuses were reported on his 16 income taxes, if you know. 17 18 THE WITNESS: The money that was paid to Mr. Manafort was not reported as income. 19 THE COURT: Next question. 20 BY MR. ANDRES: 21 Q. 22 here in the Eastern District of Virginia. 23 that? 24 A. I do. 25 Q. He said that you might be facing a substantial amount of Mr. Downing asked you some questions about your indictment Do you remember Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 512 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1 1498 jail time for that. 2 Do you remember that? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 years in jail? 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. Is that your understanding that you were facing that 7 amount of time? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Are there -- 10 11 I thought it was a lower amount. THE COURT: What was the lower amount that you thought? 12 THE WITNESS: I thought it was somewhere in the range 13 of a hundred years, Your Honor. 14 THE COURT: 15 MR. ANDRES: 16 THE COURT: 17 MR. ANDRES: A hundred years. Next question. Fair enough. Go ahead, Mr. Andres. Fair enough. 18 BY MR. ANDRES: 19 Q. That indictment has been dismissed? 20 A. It has. 21 Q. Are there circumstances under which that indictment can be 22 brought again? 23 A. There are. 24 Q. What are they? 25 A. If I fail to tell the truth here today, the Special Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 513 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1499 1 Counsel can claim a breach of the plea agreement, and they can 2 indict me on those charges. 3 Q. 4 be facing? 5 A. A significant amount. 6 Q. Hundred years by your account. 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. With respect -- And if you were indicted on that, how much time would you 9 THE COURT: 10 but you may ask him. 11 BY MR. ANDRES: 12 Q. So how much time are you facing? 13 A. To my knowledge, up to a hundred years. 14 Q. Okay. 15 District of Virginia indictment, you were guilty of all those 16 charges, right? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. And if you had lied here today and those charges were 19 brought again, would you have any defense to those? 20 A. No. 21 Q. Mr. Downing asked you some questions -- 22 I'll strike that. That's your testimony, And with respect to the charges in the Eastern THE COURT: 23 Mr. Andres. 24 BY MR. ANDRES: 25 Q. Just so we're clear -- no, go ahead, Mr. Downing asked you some questions about your Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 514 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1500 1 sentencing. Do you remember that? 2 A. I do. 3 Q. And you're going to be sentenced by a federal judge in 4 Washington, D.C.; is that correct? 5 A. That is correct. 6 Q. With respect to all of the things that you've testified 7 today, will that judge know about all of the criminal activity 8 you're involved in? 9 A. She will. 10 Q. Okay. 11 will that judge know about that? 12 A. She will. 13 Q. And with respect to your own failing to file tax returns, 14 will the judge know about that? 15 A. Yes, she will. 16 Q. How will she know about that? 17 A. Because the government prepares a letter which indicates 18 all of the criminal activity conducted. 19 Q. And will that judge have access to this transcript? 20 A. I assume so, yes. 21 Q. Okay. 22 understanding that the judge will take into consideration the 23 totality of your conduct? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. That includes your criminal conduct? With respect to the embezzlement from Mr. Manafort, And so at the time of sentencing, is it your That's what is expressed to me. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 515 of 580 Gates - Redirect 1501 1 A. It does. 2 Q. And your cooperation? 3 A. That's correct. 4 Q. And as you sit here today, do you have any idea what your 5 sentence will be? 6 A. None. 7 Q. As you sit here today, Mr. Gates, do you have any doubt in 8 your mind, if you lied, that the Special Counsel's Office would 9 rip up your plea agreement? 10 A. No doubt at all. 11 MR. ANDRES: Judge, may I have a moment? 12 THE COURT: 13 MR. ANDRES: 14 If I could go back to Defense Exhibit 17? 15 14. Yes, you may. Just one other quick area, Your Honor. Defense Exhibit 14. 16 BY MR. ANDRES: 17 Q. Do you have that in front of you, Defense Exhibit 14? 18 A. I do. 19 20 MR. ANDRES: May I just have one moment, Your Honor? 21 THE COURT: 22 MR. ANDRES: 23 THE COURT: 24 MR. ANDRES: 25 Okay. Yes. I'm finished, Your Honor. Thank you. I'm sorry? I'm finished with my examination. Thank you. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 516 of 580 Gates - Recross 1502 1 THE COURT: 2 MR. DOWNING: 3 Can I get a copy of the plea agreement? 4 All right. Mr. Downing? Thank you, Your Honor. RECROSS EXAMINATION 5 BY MR. DOWNING: 6 Q. Can we go back to Defense Exhibit 17? 7 Mr. Gates, you've had an opportunity to look at 8 what's been marked as Defense Exhibit 17, haven't you? 9 A. Yes, I have. 10 Q. Today and yesterday? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And I think you ballparked yesterday -- 13 THE COURT: 14 THE WITNESS: 15 THE COURT: 16 THE WITNESS: 17 Well, have you seen this chart before? Yesterday, yes, Your Honor. Before yesterday, have you seen it? Before yesterday? Yes, I did see it in the indictment, Your Honor. 18 THE COURT: Next question. 19 BY MR. DOWNING: 20 Q. The indictment here in EDVA, correct? 21 A. That's correct. 22 Q. And yesterday you ballparked that the total amount of 23 these wire transfers to your accounts was somewhere between 2.7 24 and 3 million dollars, correct? 25 A. I believe that's correct, yes. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 517 of 580 Gates - Recross 1503 1 Q. And this is all monies that you directed from DMP 2 International's offshore accounts to your personal accounts, 3 correct? 4 A. That is correct. 5 Q. And these monies are part of what we discussed yesterday, 6 your embezzlement from DMP and Mr. Manafort, correct? 7 A. That is correct. 8 Q. And they come from various entities in Cyprus as well as, 9 I believe, Global Endeavour is there for St. Vincent and the 10 Grenadines, correct? 11 A. 12 previous page, yes, that's correct. 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. I don't have the last page, but I think that's correct. 15 Yes, November 2014. 16 Q. 17 Mr. Andres has made a big fact of the point that if you don't 18 tell the truth, that they can tear up your plea agreement? 19 A. That's true. 20 Q. Who prepped you for trial? 21 A. My attorney. 22 Q. And from the Government? 23 A. I met with -- I met with Special Counsel. 24 Q. Who? 25 A. Mr. Andres and various FBI agents. I don't see Global Endeavour here, but I think on that Okay. And it spans from what years, 2010 to 2014? Not to rehash too much of yesterday, but I believe Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 518 of 580 Gates - Recross 1504 1 Q. Any other lawyers from the Office of Special Counsel you 2 met with for trial prep? 3 A. For trial prep? 4 Q. And about on how many occasions did you meet with 5 Mr. Andres to prep for trial? 6 A. Approximately 20. 7 Q. How many? 8 A. Approximately 20. 9 Q. And in your trial preparation, this issue came up about an I don't recall if there are any others. 10 extramarital affair that you may have had, correct? 11 A. It did. 12 Q. And when I asked you yesterday about your secret life, you 13 said you had made a mistake, correct? 14 A. I did. 15 Q. And that it was a short period of time and you rectified 16 it? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Do you recall telling the Office of Special Counsel that 19 you actually engaged in four extramarital affairs? 20 MR. ANDRES: 21 MR. DOWNING: 22 23 24 25 Objection, Your Honor. Relevance. It's going to go to you ripping up his plea agreement for lying yesterday. MR. ANDRES: Your Honor, if we're going to testify, maybe we could come to the sidebar? THE COURT: Yes, I think you're right, Mr. Andres. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 519 of 580 Gates - Recross 1505 1 (Bench conference on the record.) 2 THE COURT: 3 basis of relevance. 4 All right, there's an objection on the Let me hear you, Mr. Andres. MR. ANDRES: Well, Judge, as a procedural matter, 5 Your Honor said that we weren't going to discuss any of this 6 stuff. 7 extramarital affairs without a bench conference. In fact, Your Honor ruled there would be no mention of 8 9 10 Mr. Downing has violated that, obviously, but what is the possible relevance of whether or not Mr. Gates had other extramarital affairs? 11 MR. DOWNING: What's the possible relevance of that? I'm just throwing out the fact that 12 yesterday, first of all, Mr. Gates volunteered that he had the 13 affair. 14 court order or agreement. I did not directly ask that, so I did not violate any 15 MR. ANDRES: 16 MR. DOWNING: 17 THE COURT: 18 MR. ANDRES: 19 THE COURT: I would disagree with that. Second of all -I'll be the judge of that. I understand. I'm just letting -- That's not really what I need to pay 20 attention to now. 21 relevant. 22 think it isn't relevant, and I understand you want to make 23 clear that you think he's violated the Court's order. 24 25 The question is whether this question is You said it isn't, and you've explained why you That's not what I'm concerned with now. What I'm concerned with right now is whether this question is relevant. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 520 of 580 Gates - Recross 1 1506 Why do you think it's relevant? 2 MR. DOWNING: Well, yesterday, he offered up that he 3 had an affair, one affair. 4 We've, we've alleged and the basis for questioning about this, 5 we called it the secret life of the affair, that it stretched 6 over a period of time and it explained why he was embezzling 7 all of this money. 8 9 It was a short period of time. He, in fact, did not have one affair. He told the Office of Special Counsel he had multiple affairs, which goes 10 to the very issue of why we started questioning about this, his 11 lifestyle that he was leading, his secret life. 12 it also goes to his credibility. 13 yesterday about it. 14 THE COURT: But, in fact, He lied on the stand Well, I think it is true that the 15 cross-examination referred to it as a secret life, and you did 16 not elicit that it was an affair. 17 it was. 18 bench. 19 It was pretty obvious that Just now, you've raised it without coming to the You should have come to the bench. It's no secret. The real question is whether -- the 20 multiple affairs question, and you contend that that's relevant 21 because there's been a great deal of testimony about whether 22 the -- if he's lied, he loses his immunity, and you want to 23 bring out that he's lied? 24 MR. DOWNING: 25 THE COURT: Is that what you want? Correct. Where is it he's lied? Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 521 of 580 Gates - Recross 1 MR. DOWNING: 2 THE COURT: 3 MR. DOWNING: 1507 He said he had an affair, one affair. Who said that? Yesterday, Mr. Gates said it. He, 4 unsolicited by me, he blurted it out, and that it was over a 5 short period of time. 6 It was not one affair. He told the Office of Special 7 Counsel it was multiple affairs and it took place over a period 8 of time, which goes to the motivation, his secret life, for 9 embezzling the money. 10 THE COURT: So it all ties into that. Yes, but that's not really -- the only 11 thing that's relevant is this whole thing is about whether or 12 not he's going to lose the benefit of his plea agreement if he 13 doesn't tell the truth. 14 did you want to establish that he didn't tell the truth in this 15 case? 16 MR. DOWNING: 17 THE COURT: That's what you've been asking. And Yes. Well, the problem with that is he wasn't 18 asked a question directly: 19 I think you're correct, blurted out that he had an affair. 20 Consistent with my instructions to you, you didn't ask him, 21 because you weren't permitted to -- 22 MR. DOWNING: 23 THE COURT: 24 MR. DOWNING: 25 How many affairs did you have? He, Correct. -- how many affairs did you have? And, Your Honor, I apologize because I thought since he opened the door to it by blurting it out Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 522 of 580 Gates - Recross 1508 1 unsolicited, that it wasn't a violation of our agreement, so I 2 apologize. 3 THE COURT: Well, that wasn't a violation. That 4 wasn't a violation. 5 what you said here in open court, but I'm not concerned with 6 that now. 7 What Mr. Andres says is a violation is I think the question about multiple affairs is not 8 relevant, and I'm not going to permit it. It's not relevant 9 because I don't see how it bears on his credibility here. 10 In other words, well, you might argue, I suppose -- 11 that's what interests me, is how does the multiple versus one 12 affair lead to this jury's consideration of whether he's been 13 truthful? 14 MR. DOWNING: So I think overall what he was trying 15 to do was minimize the reason or the basis which caused him to 16 decide to embezzle the funds. 17 very short period of time and that it was over. 18 He made it sound like it was a What I'm trying to say is he embezzled funds from 19 2010 to 2014, and those affairs span that period of time. 20 wasn't a short, five-month period. 21 22 THE COURT: It Well, I'll tell you what I think you can do, but let me inquire of Mr. Andres. 23 I'm here. 24 MR. ANDRES: 25 THE COURT: I'm looking. He wants to show that this person is not Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 523 of 580 Gates - Recross 1509 1 worthy of credibility, of course, and he did testify on direct 2 testimony that he had a secret life -- that's the term used -- 3 he admitted that and he said -- I don't know whether he 4 admitted one affair, but it sort of sounded like that, and I 5 think what Mr. Downing wants to do is to point out that that 6 wasn't truthful. 7 The problem, Mr. Downing, is he wasn't asked: Did 8 you only have one affair, because I wouldn't have permitted it. 9 What I will permit now is for you to establish that his secret 10 life spanned years. 11 MR. DOWNING: 12 MR. ANDRES: 13 Your Honor, I object to that for the following reason. 14 THE COURT: 15 MR. ANDRES: 16 Okay. All right. I don't know the parlance of "affairs" and "sexual encounters" -- 17 THE COURT: 18 MR. ANDRES: Good. Thank you. And the like. I don't think 19 Mr. Gates would say that he had another affair, and I don't 20 think Mr. Downing can prove that, and he can bring up the 302 21 and the other document that said that. 22 23 24 25 THE COURT: Well, the only thing I'm letting him, letting him bring out is how long this secret life spanned. MR. ANDRES: Well, so if I could finish, Mr. Gates had, I don't know what to call it, but he had sex with other Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 524 of 580 Gates - Recross 1510 1 women aside from his wife more than once. 2 something that's relevant in any way. 3 Mr. Gates -- 4 THE COURT: That is not It is relevant if it's inconsistent with 5 any other testimony he's given because this jury has to decide 6 whether or not to believe this witness. 7 than candid, less than truthful in his testimony, they have an 8 opportunity to bring that out. 9 So if he has been less You have a wonderful brow furrowing -- 10 MR. ASONYE: I'm just, Your Honor -- 11 MR. ANDRES: Your Honor, the problem that Mr. Downing 12 is going to say is: You had four affairs. 13 And he's going to say: 14 THE COURT: No, I didn't. No, I didn't permit him to ask that. 15 What I'm permitting him to ask is did his secret life span a 16 number of years, and that's all. 17 MR. DOWNING: 18 THE COURT: 19 20 I got it. That's all. Now, what's your objection to that? MR. ANDRES: My objection is that Mr. Downing never 21 tied any of the payments that he alleges, and only him, have 22 anything to do with the, quote-unquote, secret life. 23 said that he didn't use any money from Mr. Manafort for that, 24 so what's -- 25 THE COURT: I don't care. Mr. Gates What I care about is Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 525 of 580 Gates - Recross 1511 1 whether there is information from which a jury can make a 2 judgment about whether to believe this witness. 3 to permit that. 4 5 6 MR. ANDRES: So I'm going Can I just understand what specifically you're going to permit? THE COURT: Yes. I've said it; I'll say it again: 7 I'm going to permit Mr. Downing to inquire whether his secret 8 life, that's one question -- 9 MR. DOWNING: 10 THE COURT: 11 MR. DOWNING: 12 THE COURT: 13 MR. ANDRES: Yes. 14 -- spanned whatever years it is. Okay. And that's it. And there's not going to be follow-up or there's not going to be -- 15 THE COURT: Unless you do it. 16 MR. ANDRES: 17 THE COURT: 18 He wanted an exhibit admitted. 19 out that he used that. 20 MR. DOWNING: 21 MR. ANDRES: 22 (End of bench conference.) 23 THE COURT: Okay. Thank you. I mean, you-all seem to be good at that. I admitted it, and it turned Maybe -- be careful what you ask for. I agree. I'll make it brief. Thank you, Judge. All right. Mr. Downing, you may proceed 24 in accordance with the Court's ruling at the bench. 25 BY MR. DOWNING: Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 526 of 580 Gates - Recross 1512 1 Q. Mr. Gates, I asked you some questions about Defendant's 2 Exhibit 17 and the time frame over which it spanned. 3 from 2010 to 2014. 4 It was Yesterday, I referred to your secret life, and I 5 believe you testified yesterday that you were spending beyond 6 your means, and there was a reason for your taking this 7 money -- 8 9 THE COURT: testimony. Well, never mind summarizing his Get to the question. 10 BY MR. DOWNING: 11 Q. 12 talking about spanned this period of time that's evidenced in 13 Exhibit 17? 14 A. 15 years, and I regret them. Well, the question is: Mr. Downing, I'd say I've made many mistakes over many 16 17 THE COURT: This isn't the time for that. Just answer his question directly. 18 THE WITNESS: 19 BY MR. DOWNING: 20 Q. It is? 21 A. Yes. MR. DOWNING: 23 THE COURT: I understand. 22 24 25 The secret life that we were Yes, it did. No further questions. Anything further? (No response.) THE COURT: All right. Thank you. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 527 of 580 1513 1 Anything further, Mr. Andres? 2 MR. ANDRES: 3 THE COURT: 4 THE WITNESS: 5 THE COURT: Thank you, Your Honor. All right. Who is the next witness, Mr. Andres? 8 9 Mr. Gates, you may step down. (Witness excused.) 6 7 No, Your Honor. MR. ANDRES: Forensic Accountant Morgan Magionos, from the FBI. 10 THE COURT: All right. Now, do I have something that 11 you submitted that I need to decide before that witness 12 testifies? 13 MR. ANDRES: 14 THE COURT: Yes, Judge. All right. Pass your books to the right, 15 ladies and gentlemen. 16 your books and maintain their security. 17 The court security officer will collect Remember to refrain from discussing the matter among 18 yourselves or with anyone or undertaking any investigation on 19 your own. 20 and we will reconvene at -- how long is this next witness? We will reconvene -- I have this issue to consider 21 MR. ANDRES: 22 THE COURT: 23 24 25 Two hours. All right. We'll reconvene at 11:30 -- at, yes, let's make it 11:25 -- 11:30, and I'll resolve it. Follow Mr. Flood out. (Jury out.) Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 528 of 580 1514 1 THE COURT: Mr. -- just a moment. 2 Mr. Andres, would you give me a brief summary of this 3 witness and this -- you submitted a memorandum relating to 4 this. 5 in response. I don't believe I received anything from the defendants 6 MR. WESTLING: 7 THE COURT: 8 All right. But your -- is it your witness? 9 MR. WESTLING: 10 THE COURT: 11 MR. WESTLING: 12 THE COURT: 13 You did not, Your Honor. It is, Your Honor. All right. You can respond orally. I'll be happy to. Do you have any objection to the admissibility? 14 MR. WESTLING: Well, I think that as a practical 15 matter, Your Honor, we don't have objections to the use of 16 summaries. 17 regarding information that's being put in related to domestic 18 expenditures that we're not entirely clear of the relevance of 19 that, because we understand those were actually captured and 20 put on the tax returns. 21 There's some issues in some of these charts In addition, Your Honor, there are some exhibits the 22 Government has listed for this witness that relate to e-mails 23 and other things that I don't think fit under sort of the 24 general mantle of a summary witness. 25 going to come and summarize transactions and other things. It's one thing to say I'm Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 529 of 580 1515 1 It's another to say I'm going to refer to other testimony or 2 the e-mails that have already been admitted into evidence, and 3 so that would be our concern with this witness. 4 5 THE COURT: Well, let me go and read Mr. Andres' brief that was submitted. 6 I think I mentioned earlier, Mr. Andres, that, of 7 course, summaries of voluminous data can be summarized if the 8 admissible evidence is submitted and available to the Court and 9 opposing counsel, but it isn't a device through which a party 10 can summarize its arguments; in other words, you can't use it 11 as a means of doing that. 12 want this witness to testify to as exhibits listed? 13 MR. ANDRES: 14 THE COURT: 15 those? 16 But do you have the charts that you Yes, Judge. What are they so that I may look at Are they listed in your brief and attached to it? MR. ANDRES: I believe they are, Judge, but if it's 17 faster, we can just e-mail them as soon as we take a break. 18 That might be the most expeditious way to do it. 19 THE COURT: 20 MR. ANDRES: 21 THE COURT: 23 MR. ANDRES: 25 All right. Can I -- can I suggest just two other things? 22 24 All right. Yes. I'm happy to, if Your Honor is interested, in giving a quick overview of the testimony. THE COURT: Yes. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 530 of 580 1516 1 MR. ANDRES: And then I think if I could work with 2 Mr. -- with defense counsel in terms of understanding their 3 objections, then we could try to work that out because we do 4 not intend to -- 5 THE COURT: 6 MR. ANDRES: 7 -- admit other testimony or other, other e-mails. 8 9 Excellent idea. I'm not sure I understand that, but I'm happy to clarify. So Morgan Magionos is a forensic accountant with the 10 FBI, been involved in this investigation for some time. 11 done tracing work to trace the payments from the Ukraine to 12 Cyprus to the United States to the vendors in a variety of 13 different ways, and that's principally what she'll testify 14 about is all of the movement of the money. 15 charts that we provided. 16 She's And those are the There were a series of charts that related to the 17 purchase of real property. 18 real property on them. 19 pictures and one without. 20 objection, I don't think listing the photographs of the houses 21 is necessarily prejudicial, but in either case, we're not 22 arguing that. 23 testimony. 24 25 Some of those had pictures of the We now have two versions, one with To the extent that there's an So that's A, let's call that Part A of her Secondly, during the course of reviewing those materials, which involve a substantial number of foreign bank Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 531 of 580 1517 1 accounts, as well as bank account information that Mr. Manafort 2 produced pursuant to a Title 31 subpoena, there are a handful 3 of e-mails that Mr. Manafort included that are his statements 4 that relate to the tracing exercise that she'll testify to, and 5 those, again, are his statements. 6 in Category A. So all of that, again, I put 7 Category B are Mr. Manafort's e-mail statements that 8 are admissible as his statements, that is a different project, 9 if you will, than simply her tracing project. But they involve 10 a range of issues in the case, whether it's the bank frauds or 11 other things, but they're defendant's statements. 12 That brief has more recently come to Your Honor, I 13 think, in the last day or two and is the issue that hasn't been 14 involved. 15 appreciate the difference between a summary witness -- 16 17 18 19 The 1006 issue has been resolved, and I certainly THE COURT: I'm sorry, you say it has been resolved? I don't recall ruling on the 1006 issue. MR. ANDRES: You did, Your Honor, and with the admonition that we're not to use it as a summation. 20 THE COURT: 21 MR. ANDRES: 22 summary witness. 23 through this witness. Oh, I see. I understand the difference between a I'm not going to give my closing witness 24 THE COURT: 25 MR. ANDRES: All right. The issue about whether to read her Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 532 of 580 1518 1 e-mails -- the e-mails that -- of Mr. Manafort as his 2 statements is something we briefed. 3 defense position is, but our position are there's a stipulation 4 that they're authentic and these are the defendant's 5 statements. 6 Special Agent -- 7 I'm not sure what the So there's a handful that we seek to read through THE COURT: Yes, that's, I think, the objection as I 8 understood it. 9 admitted, but you can't have a witness read it who doesn't know 10 You can have the document admitted and it's anything about it other than that she's an FBI agent. 11 MR. WESTLING: 12 MR. ANDRES: That's the objection, Your Honor. Well, Judge, if I could address that, 13 agents take statements from witnesses all the time, and they 14 don't have to know all the background. 15 all the time. 16 the drugs that they seize in order to testify. Drug agents seize drugs They don't have to have personal knowledge of 17 THE COURT: 18 MR. ANDRES: 19 THE COURT: And that's quite true. Right? So -- But this is merely a means of conveying 20 to the jury through the mouth of an agent -- these -- she had 21 nothing to do with -- is it a woman? 22 MR. ANDRES: 23 THE COURT: Yes, Judge. She had nothing to do with this. In 24 other words, it isn't -- these aren't statements Mr. Manafort 25 made to her. They're statements he made, and I'll think about Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 533 of 580 1519 1 that. 2 missed it, I want you to call my attention to it. 3 None of cases you've cited thus far is that, but if I've MR. ANDRES: I think we did cite a case in 4 particular, Judge, that allows for the reading of the e-mails. 5 The question is not -- we'll do it in any way that's 6 appropriate. 7 issue is to get the evidence in front of the jury. 8 9 We're not trying to prejudice, but again, the THE COURT: Well, the documents would be admitted because they're statements of the defendant. It's clearly 10 admissible. But using an agent to make the case is not, 11 because these statements weren't made to an agent, and all the 12 agent is doing is testifying to the -- what it says. 13 Tell me what case you're relying on. 14 MR. ANDRES: I'm obviously getting some help here, 15 Judge, but there's a Sixth Circuit case, United States v. 16 Kilpatrick, that says agents are free to read aloud from 17 admitted documents, and then there's another case, and this 18 one's in the Fifth -- 19 THE COURT: Well, I'll look at that, but, you know, 20 you're cherry-picking that statement. 21 agent could read aloud from it because that agent was involved 22 in some other part of the investigation where that statement, 23 that admission by a party was important. 24 case. 25 Who knows whether that I'll look at the Certainly, the exhibit is admissible. It does become Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 534 of 580 1520 1 part of the record. I'll just look at whether the appropriate 2 way to do it is simply to admit it. 3 direct the jury: 4 specifically at this, and so forth, rather than -- what she's 5 doing is simply repeating what you want her to do. 6 reading those documents. You, in your argument, can You know, I think you ought to look She's 7 And I'm going to look at the -- what you say is the 8 Sixth Circuit case, but I'm not inclined to do it, but I may. 9 But as I said, you do get the documents to come into the 10 record. 11 them. They're perfectly admissible. You do get to argue That's perfectly appropriate. 12 MR. ANDRES: Thank you, Your Honor. 13 Just before you leave, Bucket 3 for Forensic 14 Accountant Magionos is just to admit some telephone records. 15 Again, as a custodian, they're business records that are coming 16 in, and she's going to identify certain of the telephone 17 records that are relevant to another part of the case. 18 Again, the telephone records themselves are 19 voluminous, and she has a chart that identifies. 20 to ask her as to what they relate to or anything else, but 21 rather just to identify those phone calls. 22 THE COURT: All right. 23 to take the recess. 24 that are being offered -- 25 Let's do this: I'm not going We're going I want you to look at all of the charts MR. WESTLING: Yes, Your Honor. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 535 of 580 1521 1 THE COURT: -- as summaries of data under 1006, 2 because voluminous data can be presented to a jury by way of a 3 chart if the chart is not argumentative. 4 If it simply portrays in an organized fashion the 5 data that is admissible and if you're satisfied and don't have 6 an objection as to its accuracy, you get a chance to look at 7 it. 8 9 So number one, I want you to look at that and tell me whether you have any objection to these charts that Mr. Andres 10 wants to introduce under 1006. 11 the -- or make available all of the underlying data that would 12 be admissible, and then you can determine whether or not it's 13 an accurate summary. 14 MR. WESTLING: 15 THE COURT: He has to introduce all of Yes, Your Honor. But obviously, it's got to be neutral. 16 In other words, you can't offer a summary that has some numbers 17 in black and some numbers in red and some numbers with stars by 18 it, because that's an argument. 19 argument. 20 the jury room. 21 22 23 They can do that in closing You can, you can do that, but it won't go back to Okay. It'll be a demonstrative then. So that's the first thing I want you to do. I want to know whether there's any objection. Second, do you know what exhibits Mr. Andres intends 24 to introduce through this witness because you provided that, 25 Mr. Andres? Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 536 of 580 1522 1 MR. ANDRES: 2 THE COURT: Yes, Judge. I want to know if there's any objection 3 to those. I think, for the most part, they're all 4 Mr. Manafort's statements, are they not? 5 MR. ANDRES: 6 THE COURT: Yes, Your Honor. So there's no objection on the basis of 7 hearsay, but there may be some other objection, and I want to 8 know that. 9 MR. WESTLING: Yes, Your Honor. 10 THE COURT: And I want to resolve it. 11 There was a third -- oh, yes, and you were going to 12 get together with Mr. Andres to see if you could agree on if 13 you have an objection, give him notice of that, so I can hear 14 informed argument. 15 16 17 Now, tell me once again, what that Sixth Circuit case was? MR. ANDRES: Your Honor, if I could hand up, I'm 18 happy to brief it, but I'm happy to provide you with a copy. 19 It does have highlighting, but it -- 20 THE COURT: 21 MR. ANDRES: 22 23 24 25 No, I'll look it up. Okay. Just give me the -- Sure, here it is. United States v. Kilpatrick, 798 F.3d 365, 383 (6th Cir. 2015). THE COURT: All right. I'm sure somebody helpfully wrote that down. MR. ANDRES: I'm happy to -- I'm happy to repeat it. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 537 of 580 1523 1 (Laughter.) 2 THE COURT: 3 MR. ANDRES: 4 THE COURT: No, that's fine. All right. It's not a -- it's not a secret. Now, Mr. Flood will have to tell the jury 5 that we'll probably be a little later. 6 will reconvene. Let's make it 11:45 we 7 Anything further at this time? 8 MR. WESTLING: 9 THE COURT: 10 MR. ANDRES: 11 THE COURT: 12 Are we clear now? Yes, Your Honor. Let's proceed. Okay. Thank you, Your Honor. Court stands in recess. (Recess from 11:08 a.m., until 11:43 a.m.) 13 14 Anything -- (Jury out.) THE COURT: All right. All right. When we recessed, 15 I did not have any sense of the scope. 16 need some more clarification, but I want to give you some 17 guidance as well. 18 I now have it, and I The focus, my focus was these charts that I received 19 a two- or three-page memorandum on, maybe it was two, no 20 specific charts were referred to, but you did give me an out -- 21 not an outline but a -- as you've been doing, Mr. -- yes -- as 22 you've been doing, Mr. Andres, you've given me a chart of this 23 witness and the exhibits you want to offer through her. 24 a forensic accountant. 25 She's So I've looked at some of those. And, Mr. Wesley, I don't know what you're objecting Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 538 of 580 1524 1 to. 2 so that's what I expected you and Mr. Andres to review. 3 may be no objections; there may be a slew of them. 4 don't know. 5 So you need -- just a moment -- what you're objecting to, There I just Now, let me give you some guidance that might resolve 6 it. 7 under -- charts under 1006, if they are a way of conveying to 8 the jury in a neutral manner the content of voluminous 9 documents, but that they couldn't be disguised advocacy, that 10 11 I told Mr. Andres that I would admit, of course, documents is, as evidence. So I began to look at some of these charts, and it 12 seemed to me, Mr. Westling, that they did that. I didn't see 13 any problem with them. 14 the names of certain foreign entities, a date created, and a 15 corporation location, and these are names that I think all have 16 been mentioned in the record. 17 accountant determined, Mr. Andres, where these people were 18 created, when they were created, and then on the basis of 19 admissible records, and where they are incorporated. For example, Exhibit 61, all it says is So I would assume this forensic 20 Am I right about that? 21 MR. ANDRES: 22 THE COURT: Yes, Your Honor. So that seems to me that that would be 23 admissible under 1006, and I don't know if there's an 24 objection, but at some point -- 25 MR. WESTLING: There is not as to that one, Your Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 539 of 580 1525 1 2 Honor. THE COURT: Well, I'm not surprised. But then I go 3 on and there's this much, and at some point I needed to have 4 some guidance on what's really at issue between the parties. 5 Now, that's one issue. 6 I'll come back to it. The second issue is whether this witness could read 7 e-mails that are otherwise admissible into the record. 8 answer to that is, yes, in some instances, but not in all. 9 other words, you can't have someone who's an agent come in and 10 read e-mails that that agent has nothing to do with other than 11 to read, and if she -- he or she was involved in the 12 investigation, but if in preparing her testimony, this 13 witness -- and in making these charts she used this evidence, 14 assuming it's admissible, in other words, a statement by 15 Mr. Manafort which is admissible, she could certainly read 16 that, but, of course, nobody would doubt that I can't go in and 17 find one of these nice people off the street in the morning and 18 say, "Come in, I want you to read a bunch of e-mails for me," 19 of course not. 20 have to have some context. 21 you can't cross-examine most of these anyway because maybe 22 there are other people on the e-mail and so forth. 23 The In Even though the e-mails may be admissible, they Remember, the defendant can't -- or But anyway, so those are the two questions. One is 24 these charts, clearly charts that summarize voluminous 25 information in a neutral way to present to the jury that's Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 540 of 580 1526 1 appropriate under 1006. 2 the predicates are met; namely, whether the documents have been 3 admitted in evidence, that is, the underlying data, and whether 4 the chart is accurate in its representation of that data. 5 not going to go through it; that's your problem. 6 need to know what the, what the objections are. 7 It's up to you, Mr. Westling, whether I'm And then I And for the second thing, you've got a list, 8 Mr. Westling, of all the documents Mr. Andres intends to 9 introduce through this witness. If you have an objection to 10 those, I expected you and Mr. Andres to talk about it and see 11 if you could obviate the necessity for us to have yet another 12 bench conference, which I dearly wish to avoid. 13 MR. ANDRES: 14 THE COURT: 15 MR. ANDRES: Can I -- can I try first, Your Honor? Yes, of course. So here's my understanding, and 16 Mr. Westling can correct me. 17 a -- one issue was cumulative, which Mr. Westling will handle, 18 but, otherwise, there's not an objection to the admission. 19 There are -- 20 THE COURT: 21 MR. ANDRES: As to the 1006 charts, there's Except for cumulativeness? Mr. Westling will handle that. 22 leave that. 23 generally there's not an objection with respect to one 24 exception. 25 was purchased. I'll I think -- and I don't want to speak for him, but There are flow charts that cover the property that So it shows the movement to the various Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 541 of 580 1527 1 accounts. 2 that the -- we'd be allowed to show it so that Forensic 3 Accountant Magionos can describe her tracing activity, but 4 we're not going to admit those as exhibits. 5 6 They're different than the charts. THE COURT: All right. So it's a demonstrative in effect? 7 MR. ANDRES: 8 MR. WESTLING: 9 MR. ANDRES: 10 11 We've agreed THE COURT: For this witness. That's correct, Your Honor. Correct. And then there's -- Then you may use it in closing argument, if you wish. 12 MR. ANDRES: 13 THE COURT: That would be wonderful. But the jury will be told you're not 14 going to have it in the jury room and it is not itself 15 evidence. 16 MR. ANDRES: Understood. And then there's a fourth 17 chart that also falls into that category with respect to 18 FARA -- the FARA filing, and it has -- it does summarize 19 voluminous evidence, but it also makes the comparison, which 20 there is some arguments that that could be argument, and we 21 don't want to fight about that, and we're going to put that 22 chart in as well as demonstrative evidence. 23 THE COURT: 24 MR. ANDRES: 25 So -- What chart is that? It's called the FARA chart. I don't know offhand -- Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 542 of 580 1528 1 MR. WESTLING: 2 THE COURT: 3 right. I believe it's Exhibit 80, Your Honor. Just a moment. I do have Exhibit 80. 4 MR. ANDRES: Let's see if I -- all Go on. So half of that chart summarizes 5 voluminous evidence. 6 through all of the things that are in the general ledger, all 7 of the things that are in the bank account. 8 voluminous evidence. 9 I think it's the right side that goes That is truly On the opposite side of that is a summary of what's 10 in Mr. Manafort's FARA filing, which is a document that is not 11 voluminous. 12 defense is arguing that this is some sort of argumentative 13 summation point, we're not going to seek to admit that as 14 evidence but rather have the accountant explain what she did 15 and the comparison that she made. 16 it will come in as a demonstrative exhibit but it won't be 17 admitted. We don't contend it is, and to the extent that the 18 THE COURT: 19 MR. WESTLING: 20 And like the other charts, All right. And we have no problem with that, Your Honor. 21 THE COURT: All right. That's a sensible resolution. 22 Now, your objection as to cumulativeness, of course, 23 we've heard testimony about how -- about the payment to the 24 clothiers, payment to the landscapers and other entities, and 25 we've heard these people who actually received payment testify Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 543 of 580 1529 1 that, yes, I sent that bill, yes, I got that payment, and the 2 payment came to me from this entity. 3 4 And is it your argument that we don't need to hear that evidence again? 5 MR. WESTLING: 6 THE COURT: That is my argument, Your Honor. Well, it was fairly clear. What is it 7 that you intend to offer about that? 8 payments. 9 There were other payments, and I think the evidence showed they 10 I mean, I just said clothiers and landscapers. came from Cyprus. 11 There were lots of Am I correct? MR. ANDRES: Yes, Your Honor. The point of Forensic 12 Accountant Magionos is to -- and we're not going to spend a lot 13 of time on this. 14 hours. 15 to put together the whole picture. 16 one part of the picture, which is the domestic half. 17 going to put in the foreign half and she'll reference the 18 domestic half as well to show the connection between the 19 domestic payments and the foreign payments, and this is -- 20 21 22 I'm really hoping it's not going to take two I think we can get through it much quicker, but it is THE COURT: So she -- they put it in She's Well, the domestic payments came from a foreign bank. MR. ANDRES: Correct. But what the, what the -- she 23 can trace the wire remittance from those foreign accounts, and 24 Your Honor will remember that when, when Your Honor asked that 25 we not admit the domestic chart payments through the, through Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 544 of 580 1530 1 the vendors, that you said through an appropriate FBI agent, 2 this is that appropriate FBI agent. 3 So it's not cumulative in the sense that it puts the 4 whole picture together. 5 absolutely not going through every entry but rather to 6 summarize the charts so that the evidence is -- is in properly. 7 8 THE COURT: And again, we are not -- we are All right. What's your -- why is that cumulative, Mr. Westling? 9 MR. WESTLING: Well, Your Honor, I guess simply 10 because we've heard it all before, and so I don't think that 11 it's appropriate to have this witness get on the stand and 12 repeat for each vendor the specific transactions, sort of 13 transaction by transaction, which is at least what the charts 14 seem to suggest is going to happen and would have to happen for 15 the charts to be admitted. 16 THE COURT: Well, do you intend to argue to the jury 17 that there was no evidence that the payments for his clothes 18 came from a Cyprus bank account? 19 20 MR. WESTLING: We do not intend to argue that, Your Honor. 21 THE COURT: There was evidence of that, I think. 22 MR. WESTLING: 23 THE COURT: There was. Well, I'm looking for a way, Mr. Andres, 24 that you-all could shorten this matter. 25 the accountant could be asked: You know, one way is Did you examine the records to Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 545 of 580 1531 1 see whether any payments were made to Clothier A from Cyprus 2 bank accounts between this time period? 3 Yes, I did. 4 And how much was that? 5 And then you're done, right? 6 MR. ANDRES: Judge, I don't -- we're putting on a -- 7 not an expert but a forensic accountant whose done a tremendous 8 amount of work. 9 work. I think it's important the jury understand her I'm not going through every transaction, even close. 10 THE COURT: 11 life doing it. 12 neither is the jury. 13 really relevant to us. Look, it isn't relevant if she spent her 14 I'm not going to spend my life doing it, So the amount of work she's done is not What I'm looking for is a means -- and you can 15 express your gratitude to her, and so can the Department of 16 Justice. 17 (Laughter.) 18 19 20 THE COURT: sharply. But we need to find a way to focus I think your use of charts helps. MR. ANDRES: Your Honor, I think the compromise is to 21 not go through every transaction, which was never our intent, 22 but it's important to show that the transactions, the domestic 23 transactions match the foreign transactions. 24 going to go through every one. 25 to do that. And we're not We're absolutely not intending Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 546 of 580 1532 1 THE COURT: All right. I do remember some testimony, 2 I don't remember all of it in detail, but I think you did 3 elicit testimony that the clothing bills, the landscaping 4 bills, the other bills were paid from wire transfers from an 5 account in Cyprus. 6 7 8 9 Was that elicited? MR. ANDRES: A substantial number of those witnesses said that they didn't know whose accounts those were. THE COURT: Oh, I agree with you. But one chart shows that. You can show that. In fact, that's 60 -- that's 61, 10 although, it doesn't say whose accounts that is, but that -- 11 I'm sure you've got other charts that does that. 12 13 14 That was my goal, Mr. Andres, is not to repeat things and not to -- and I think you share that view. MR. ANDRES: I do, Your Honor. And I don't intend to 15 repeat things, but I don't think it's -- that means that the 16 subject matter itself won't come up, that is, where the 17 payments resulted. 18 I'm not going to ask this -- this agent -- or this accountant 19 about all of the transactions or even close to all of them. 20 I'm just going to ask for a summary so that she can establish 21 the work that she did. 22 I'm not going to ask these people about -- I wasn't suggesting that we all be thankful for the 23 work that she did. I was suggesting that it's important that 24 the jury understand what she did so that the charts -- she can 25 explain her process with the charts. That's really all. And, Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 547 of 580 1533 1 again, I don't think this is going to be voluminous. 2 certainly don't think it's going to be cumulative. 3 4 5 THE COURT: I Mr. Westling, have you looked at all of these charts? MR. WESTLING: I have, Your Honor, and I'll give the 6 Court an example. 7 example of a proper summary. 8 all of the transactions that are foreign transactions that paid 9 vendors on one page as compared to the numerous charts that are 10 11 If you look at No. 72, I think this is an It seems to include a summary of sort of vendor by vendor. THE COURT: I'm looking at 72. All right. It does 12 it by year, payments to vendors, how much. 13 however, Mr. Westling, is whether these vendors were paid by 14 wire transfers from Cyprus accounts. 15 MR. WESTLING: What's missing, Well, I suspect, Your Honor, that the 16 testimony of the witness would be that's what she gathered to 17 come up with these numbers. 18 THE COURT: Well, another one-page chart could take 19 care of that. 20 you want -- it's not a matter of gratitude for all the work the 21 witness has done, but you want to impress on the jury that 22 there's no doubt about the path of this money. 23 I think the better way to put it, Mr. Andres, is I agree that you may do that. On the other hand, I 24 have to take into account the fact that they're not 25 disagreeing, they're not disputing it, and as a concession to Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 548 of 580 1534 1 the shortness of life, we need to get it done. 2 representation that you don't plan to go through it transaction 3 by transaction. 4 permit it, but in any event, I'm glad to hear that. 5 Have you gone through all these exhibits, 6 I'm glad to hear that. I don't know that I'd Mr. Westling? 7 MR. WESTLING: 8 THE COURT: 9 I take your I have, Your Honor. Now, which ones do you say are cumulative and why? 10 MR. WESTLING: Well, I guess I would say that all of 11 the charts that relate to vendors, which include 65A, 65B, 65C, 12 65D, 65E, 65F, 65G, 65H, 65I, 65J, 65K, 65L, and 65M, which are 13 summaries of all of the transactions on a per-vendor basis, 14 which we've heard about from many folks on the stand or through 15 stipulations, are cumulative, Your Honor. 16 I will say, to be fair to my conversation with 17 Mr. Andres in trying to work this out, that we also note that 18 some of those we believe are proper summaries. 19 they are cumulative, but there's a number that have five or 20 less than ten transactions, which I think Mr. Andres has said 21 he probably is not going to use in an effort to shorten the 22 witness. 23 this. 24 25 I still think So we have made an effort to kind of work through THE COURT: Yes, and I appreciate that, but now we need to bring it to a close and it's lunchtime. I take it you Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 549 of 580 1535 1 were -- the two of you were under way in your effort to see if 2 you could focus this sharply. 3 MR. ANDRES: Judge, I wouldn't agree with that at 4 all. 5 exhibits have been with the defense for at least a month. 6 We're not delaying this trial. 7 time -- 8 9 10 11 We've been focused sharply for a long time. THE COURT: These We're not spending any more I didn't say that you are delaying it. I asked whether you were in the process with Mr. Westling of -of seeing if you could reach agreement on these many exhibits. MR. ANDRES: I think we're largely in agreement and 12 we're ready to proceed, with the exception, I don't -- we don't 13 agree that they're cumulative. 14 of time on them. 15 said previously that the charts that we tried to admit through 16 the vendors will more appropriately come through an FBI agent. 17 We've now done that, and we're now going to walk through this 18 in what I think would be an expeditious fashion. 19 We're not going to spend a lot But, again, it's important, and Your Honor And it's important to tie those specific receipts to 20 specific payments. It's not enough to simply do a chart with 21 all of the payments. 22 the receipts and the payments. You have to show the relationship between 23 The other thing, Your Honor, is -- 24 THE COURT: 25 If there's a dispute, you do. Otherwise, you wouldn't. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 550 of 580 1536 1 MR. ANDRES: Well, Judge, again -- again, I apologize 2 if this is argumentative, but if the defense has not stipulated 3 to anything, which they haven't, not a single thing in terms of 4 these charts -- 5 THE COURT: 6 in these charts, Mr. Westling? 7 8 Do you want to stipulate to anything here MR. WESTLING: I think we're willing to stipulate to the information in Chart No. 72, Your Honor. 9 MR. ANDRES: Judge, I'm not -- I'm at a loss. 10 prepared our case. 11 more time. 12 Here we are ready to go and the defense now wants to stipulate. 13 Who's going to write up a stipulation? 14 put the witness on and get started. 15 16 We're ready to go. We've We're not taking any You tell us constantly we need to focus sharply. THE COURT: It would be quicker to He's stipulating to what -- the information on 72; is that correct? 17 MR. WESTLING: 18 THE COURT: 19 we're going to get the jury in. 20 quickly. 21 you at the bench, and neither side is going to profit from 22 that. 23 mistake when they confirmed me. All right. What we're going to do is You can proceed. Do it Every time an objection is made, I'm going to have I generally -- judges should be patient. 24 25 That's correct, Your Honor. They made a (Laughter.) THE COURT: I'm not very patient, so don't try my Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 551 of 580 Magionos - Direct 1 1537 patience either. 2 Bring the jury in. 3 And if the e-mail does not relate to the work that 4 she did, she's not going to read it. 5 MR. ANDRES: Judge, I'd like to address that after, 6 after lunch. I'm not going to -- in this session won't raise 7 that, but I'd like to address that at some point. 8 THE COURT: 9 MR. ANDRES: 10 THE COURT: You've already submitted a brief on it. I understand, but I -And the brief was two pages, said a Sixth 11 Circuit case, which I've gone and read. 12 line. 13 That's a throwaway (Jury present.) 14 THE COURT: All right. 15 All right. Call your next witness, Mr. Andres. 16 MR. ANDRES: Your Honor, the Government calls 17 You may be seated. Morgan Magionos, a forensic accountant from the FBI. 18 THE COURT: 19 oath, please, ma'am. 20 All right. Come forward and take the MORGAN MAGIONOS, GOVERNMENT'S WITNESS, SWORN 21 THE COURT: 22 All right. You may proceed, Mr. Andres. DIRECT EXAMINATION 23 BY MR. ANDRES: 24 Q. Please state your name and spell it for the record. 25 A. Morgan Magionos, M-a-g-i-o-n-o-s. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 552 of 580 Magionos - Direct 1538 1 Q. Are you currently employed? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Where are you employed? 4 A. The FBI. 5 Q. And what's your title at the FBI? 6 A. Forensic accountant. 7 Q. Did you receive training from the FBI for this position? 8 A. I did. 9 Q. What training? 10 A. I attended a six-week training session where we studied 11 forensic accounting investigative techniques and legal studies. 12 Q. 13 FBI? 14 A. Eight years. 15 Q. Have you been assigned to the investigation of 16 Paul Manafort? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. And what was your role on that investigation? 19 A. The financial analysis. 20 Q. Did that involve tracing? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. What is tracing? 23 A. Tracing is following a transaction from origination to the 24 ultimate destination. 25 Q. And how long have you been a forensic accountant at the And over the course of your career in the FBI, how many Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 553 of 580 Magionos - Direct 1539 1 tracing and financial investigations have you been involved in? 2 A. Over 25 investigations. 3 Q. Can you briefly describe your educational background? 4 A. Yes. 5 Manhattan School of Music, and I studied accounting at Portland 6 State University's postbaccalaureate program. 7 Q. 8 can you describe what that entailed? 9 A. I have a Bachelor of Music in Cello Performance from With respect to the program at Portland State University, Yes. It entailed taking 68 credit hours of accounting and 10 business-related courses, such as economics, statistics, and 11 finance. 12 Q. And what was the purpose of that course? 13 A. It allowed me to take the credit hours necessary to sit 14 for the CPA exam. 15 Q. What is the CPA exam? 16 A. It's a four-part exam that is one of the steps in becoming 17 licensed as a CPA. 18 Q. 19 did you also work? 20 A. I did. 21 Q. Where did you work? 22 A. I worked for a local architecture and engineering firm. 23 Q. Okay. 24 point? 25 A. During the time that you were in school at Portland State, And did you also work at an accounting firm at some I did. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 554 of 580 Magionos - Direct 1540 1 Q. What accounting firm? 2 A. Deloitte & Touche. 3 Q. What's Deloitte & Touche? 4 A. It's an international audit, tax, and consulting firm. 5 Q. And over what period of time did you work there? 6 A. From 2007 to 2010. 7 Q. And can you describe your responsibilities? 8 A. Yes. 9 not-for-profit entities. I audited the financial statements of for-profit and 10 Q. Did you hold any professional licenses or certificates? 11 A. I do. 12 Q. What license or certificates do you hold? 13 A. I'm a certified public accountant and a certified fraud 14 examiner. 15 Q. 16 license, what did you have to do to earn that license? 17 A. 18 degree and additional coursework in accounting. 19 passing a four-part examination, at least one year of practical 20 experience, and then continuing professional education. 21 Q. And what year did you receive your CPA license? 22 A. 2009. 23 Q. Are you required to complete annual training to maintain 24 that license? 25 A. And with respect to the certified public accountant It requires educational experience, such as a bachelor's It requires Yes. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 555 of 580 Magionos - Direct 1541 1 Q. What does that involve? 2 A. It requires 40 hours of continuing professional education 3 every year. 4 Q. 5 since 2009? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. You also testified that you're a certified fraud examiner. 8 What does it mean to be a certified fraud examiner? 9 A. And have you maintained that license in good standing The certification denotes experience in investigating and 10 preventing fraud. 11 Q. What -- what are the requirements? 12 A. It requires educational and professional experience as 13 well as taking a -- and passing a four-part examination. 14 Q. 15 certificate? 16 A. 2011. 17 Q. Are you required to complete annual training to maintain 18 that designation? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. What -- what did that require? 21 A. It requires 20 hours of continuing professional education. 22 Q. And have you maintained that designation since 2011? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. You testified that as part of the Manafort investigation 25 you did a financial analysis. And what year did you obtain your certified fraud What was the purpose of that Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 556 of 580 Magionos - Direct 1542 1 review? 2 A. 3 funds into foreign bank accounts and then also determine the 4 ultimate destination of transfers from those foreign bank 5 accounts. 6 Q. 7 documents? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. What documents? 10 A. I relied on documents from foreign -- foreign accounts as 11 well as domestic bank accounts, title records, vendor records, 12 business records, tax records, and accounting records. 13 The purpose of the review was to determine sources of As part of that review, did you rely on particular MR. ANDRES: Your Honor, at this point, the 14 Government moves to admit Government Exhibit 66A, 66C, 66D, 15 66E, 66G, 67B, and 67C, all of which are foreign financial 16 records, and we move to admit them pursuant to Title 18, United 17 States Code, 3505. 18 MR. WESTLING: 19 THE COURT: 20 (Government Exhibit Nos. 66A, 66C, 66D, 66E, 66G, 21 No objection, Your Honor. Admitted. 67B, and 67C were received in evidence.) 22 THE COURT: Next question. 23 BY MR. ANDRES: 24 Q. 25 Can you tell me what that is? Let me ask you to take a look at Government Exhibit 63. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 557 of 580 Magionos - Direct 1543 1 A. This is a chart that lists foreign bank accounts. 2 Q. Okay. 3 chart? 4 A. 5 documents from Cyprus, St. Vincent and the Grenadines, and from 6 HSBC U.K. 7 Q. Okay. 8 A. I obtained the records from Cyprus, St. Vincent and the 9 Grenadines through an MLAT, a mutual legal assistance treaty, And what information did you rely on to create this I relied on bank account applications and account opening And how did you obtain those documents? 10 and the records from HSBC U.K. were provided via subpoena. 11 Q. 12 chart in Government Exhibit 63, were they voluminous? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Okay. 15 And were the documents that you relied on in creating the MR. ANDRES: 16 me -- 17 BY MR. ANDRES: 18 Q. 19 Exhibit 66, 66C. Your Honor, the Government would -- let Before I do that, let me ask you to turn to Government 20 What's included in Government Exhibit 66C? 21 MR. ANDRES: 22 THE COURT SECURITY OFFICER: 23 Mr. Flood? We have five volumes here. 24 MR. ANDRES: Yeah. 25 THE COURT SECURITY OFFICER: Do you know which one Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 558 of 580 Magionos - Direct 1 1544 it's in? 2 MR. ANDRES: 3 THE WITNESS: 4 MR. ANDRES: 5 THE COURT: 6 MR. ANDRES: 7 I believe it's in the first volume. They're the MLAT records. 66C? Is it a chart? No, it's the underlying records. have those? 8 THE WITNESS: 9 THE COURT: Not up here. Have they been admitted? 10 MR. ANDRES: 11 THE COURT: 12 MR. ANDRES: 13 THE COURT: 14 What is the question before this witness? 15 MR. ANDRES: 16 I just admitted them, Your Honor. All right. And what -- Yes. -- is the question before this witness? The question was to have her turn to the exhibit that's been admitted. 17 18 THE COURT: What is the question you're going to put to her? 19 MR. ANDRES: 20 what the document is. 21 THE COURT: I'm going to ask her what the records -- All right. You may show that to the 22 witness. 23 an objection as to cumulative. 24 but you may reassert it as to a specific matter. 25 Do you And let me state so the record is clear: MR. WESTLING: There was I'll overrule that objection, Thank you, Your Honor. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 559 of 580 Magionos - Direct 1 THE COURT: 2 MR. ANDRES: 3 THE COURT: 5 MR. ANDRES: If I may, I just want to make sure I Can I have a moment? Yes, you may -- you may. Your Honor, may Mr. Binder go and facilitate looking for the exhibit in those boxes? 7 THE COURT: 8 MR. ANDRES: 9 THE COURT: 10 Proceed. have the right exhibit, Your Honor. 4 6 1545 Yes, you may. Thank you. Can you go to something else while he does that? 11 MR. ANDRES: Sure. 12 BY MR. ANDRES: 13 Q. 14 chart in 66C, did you rely on bank records from abroad? 15 A. I did. 16 Q. What bank records? 17 A. I relied on records provided by Cyprus, St. Vincent and 18 the Grenadines, and HSBC U.K. 19 Q. And did that include bank account records? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Okay. 22 banks? 23 A. I did. 24 Q. Okay. 25 A. Yes, 63. Government Exhibit -- in the course of the -- creating the And did you also get records from the particular And did you include that information in 66C? Yes, I did. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 560 of 580 Magionos - Direct 1 Q. 63, yes. 1546 And -- 2 THE COURT: You were saying 66. 3 THE WITNESS: 4 THE COURT: 5 THE WITNESS: 6 THE COURT: 7 Mr. Andres has asked you about? 63, sir. Is that the summary that you prepared? Yes. THE WITNESS: 9 THE COURT: And is that based on these exhibits that 8 10 Mr. Andres? 11 12 Which exhibit is it? Yes. I've admitted the 63, haven't I, I think I have. MR. ANDRES: I didn't move to admit it yet, but I'll do that now, Your Honor. 13 MR. WESTLING: 14 THE COURT: 15 (Government Exhibit No. 63 was received in evidence.) 16 MR. ANDRES: 17 THE COURT: 18 MR. ANDRES: 19 BY MR. ANDRES: 20 Q. No objection, Your Honor. It's admitted. May I publish it, Your Honor? Yes, you may. Okay. Can I ask you to turn to Government Exhibit 63, the chart? 21 You testified that you relied on overseas bank 22 records. Did that include records from HSBC? 23 A. Yes, it did. 24 Q. And what records came from HSBC? 25 A. A bank account opening document and wires and bank Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 561 of 580 Magionos - Direct 1547 1 statements for Pompolo Limited. 2 Q. 3 Mr. Manafort? 4 A. Yes, I did. 5 Q. And that was pursuant to a subpoena? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Okay. 8 Government Exhibit 447A through Q, what did -- what are those 9 documents? Okay. Did you also rely on documents provided by With respect to those documents from Mr. Manafort, 10 A. Those documents include account opening documents, bank 11 statements, and wires. 12 MR. ANDRES: The Government moves to admit Government 13 Exhibit 447A through Q. 14 MR. WESTLING: 15 in the stipulation, no objection. 16 MR. ANDRES: 17 THE COURT: 18 MR. WESTLING: I think, assuming you're going to put Thank you. I didn't hear that. There's a -- there's a related 19 stipulation, Your Honor, that I wanted to be ensured the 20 Government was going to be offering, and with that proviso, we 21 have no objection to the records. 22 THE COURT: 23 MR. ANDRES: 24 records, Your Honor. 25 find it. What's the stipulation, Mr. Andres? The stipulation relates to those I'm happy to offer it now, I just need to I'm sorry, I apologize. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 562 of 580 Magionos - Direct 1548 1 It's Government Exhibit 456. 2 THE COURT: 3 MR. ANDRES: 4 7 8 9 10 456. I'm going to hand up a copy to Mr. Flood. 5 6 What's the number of the stipulation? THE COURT: No, I have it here. I should have it here. No, I don't. Mine goes to 451, so hand that to the court security officer. MR. ANDRES: THE COURT: Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, the parties 11 stipulate that in August and September of 2017, the United 12 States served several federal subpoenas for records, including 13 foreign bank records on Paul Manafort and DMP International. 14 In response, on October 20, 2017, the documents in 15 Government Exhibits 447A through Q were produced, and the 16 parties stipulate that the documents, Exhibits 447A through Q, 17 are admissible as trial exhibits. 18 On October 20, 2017, a duly-appointed agent also made 19 the following representation to the Government concerning the 20 documents described in Exhibit 2 with respect to the offshore 21 bank account information that we produced -- the "we" means 22 that these entities have produced the documents -- produced. 23 These are accounts of DMP International. 24 25 Mr. Rick Gates had no control over, no financial interest, and ownership interest in these accounts. He was not Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 563 of 580 Magionos - Direct 1549 1 a trustee as defined by U.S. law. 2 DMP International and only had authority to act as an employee 3 with respect to these accounts. 4 Anything further? 5 MR. ANDRES: He was merely an employee of Your Honor, the "we" references the 6 parties in No. 1, which is not just the entities. 7 Mr. Manafort. 8 THE COURT: 9 MR. ANDRES: I see. It's also Yes, that's correct. Thank you, Your Honor. 10 THE COURT: 11 (Government Exhibit Nos. 447A thru 447Q and 456 were 12 You may proceed. And 456 is admitted. received in evidence.) 13 MR. ANDRES: Thank you, Your Honor. 14 BY MR. ANDRES: 15 Q. 16 Government Exhibit 63 and explain what that is? 17 A. 18 provided by accounts in Cyprus, St. Vincent and the Grenadines, 19 and the United Kingdom. 20 name and account number as well as the financial institution 21 where the account is located. 22 23 24 25 Forensic Accountant Magionos, can you look at the chart in Yes. This chart summarizes account opening documents as The first column lists the account The second column lists the account opening date or the balance forward date. The third column lists the account close date or the final transaction date. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 564 of 580 Magionos - Direct 1 2 1550 The next column lists the beneficial owner listed on the bank account application. 3 And then the last column lists the authorized signers 4 listed on the bank account application. 5 Q. And how many accounts are listed in this chart? 6 A. Thirty-one. 7 Q. Okay. 8 information about those accounts through your investigation? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Okay. 11 owners. 12 A. 13 documents and bank account applications. 14 Q. 15 that you identify in your chart? 16 A. They're either in U.S. dollar, euro, or British pound. 17 Q. And how are you able to distinguish between those two 18 currencies? And those charts -- those accounts, you received And listed on the accounts are the beneficial Where did that information come from? That information came directly from the account opening Okay. And what denomination are the different accounts in 19 THE COURT: 20 THE WITNESS: 21 There were three currencies. It depended on the account number, so -- 22 THE COURT: She said three currencies. 23 MR. ANDRES: 24 THE COURT: 25 Go ahead, Mr. Andres. Yeah. But that's all right. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 565 of 580 Magionos - Direct 1551 1 BY MR. ANDRES: 2 Q. 3 currencies? 4 A. 5 the Cypriot accounts denoted either a 32 or an 11. 6 U.S. dollar account, the 11 shows a euro account. 7 Q. 8 the names -- so, for example, when you look at the entry in 9 No. 1, it says "Actinet"; is that correct? How were you able to distinguish between those three It depended on the account number. The second digit for 32 shows a And without going through each account, can you tell us 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And there's more than one account for Actinet? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. How do you -- how can you explain that? 14 A. There were two accounts, a U.S. dollar account and a euro 15 account at Bank of Cyprus; and then there were two accounts at 16 Hellenic Bank, again, a U.S. dollar account and a euro account. 17 Q. 18 terms of the banks and denomination, can you identify for the 19 jury the names of each of the entities that had bank accounts 20 that are in the chart in Government Exhibit 63? 21 A. You want me to read the names? 22 Q. Yes. 23 A. Actinet Trading Limited; Black Sea View Limited; Bletilla 24 Ventures Limited; Global Highway Limited; Leviathan Advisors 25 Limited; LOAV Advisors Limited; Lucicle Consultants Limited; Okay. And without going through each of the accounts in Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 566 of 580 Magionos - Direct 1552 1 Marziola Holdings Limited; Olivenia Trading Limited; Peranova 2 Holdings Limited; Serangon Holdings Limited; Yiakora Ventures 3 Limited; Pompolo Limited; Global Endeavour, Inc.; and Jeunet 4 Limited. 5 Q. 6 accounts, did you compare them to the documents produced by 7 Mr. Manafort? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And what did you find? 10 A. I found that all of the accounts listed in this exhibit 11 were included in Mr. Manafort's production except for the 12 Peranova Holdings euro account and then the Pompolo Limited 13 account. 14 Q. Okay. 15 A. They just were not provided by Mr. Manafort. 16 Q. Okay. 17 relating to those entities? 18 A. I did. 19 Q. And with respect to the accounts in the chart, what 20 countries are those accounts located? 21 A. 22 and the United Kingdom. 23 Q. 24 listed. 25 the individuals that are identified as the beneficial owners? Okay. And when you look at those -- the names in those And how were those different? But you received documentation from overseas They're located in Cyprus, St. Vincent and the Grenadines, Okay. In Column No. 5, you have the beneficial owner Without going through each of the accounts, who were Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 567 of 580 Magionos - Direct 1553 1 A. It was either Mr. Manafort, Mr. Gates, or Mr. Kilimnik. 2 Q. Okay. 3 A. By reviewing the account opening documentation. 4 Q. Okay. 5 authorized signatures listed on the bank account application. 6 Where did that information come from? 7 A. 8 that we received. 9 Q. And where did you determine that information from? And then in the final column, it's listed That information came from the bank account opening docs And again, without going through each and every account, 10 who are the names listed on those -- on those accounts? 11 A. 12 individuals located in Cyprus: 13 Chrystalla Pitsilli Dekatris, Myrianthi Christou, Evelina 14 Georgiades, or Georgoula Mavrides. 15 Q. 16 course of your investigation, those individuals that you just 17 mentioned, did you understand that they were associated with a 18 particular entity? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. What entity? 21 A. They were associated with Dr. Kypros Chrysostomides' law 22 firm. 23 Q. Is he also known as Dr. K? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Okay. Either Mr. Manafort and Mr. Gates or a group of Eleni Chrysostomides, I'm not even going to try to pronounce those, but in the And how did you decide what accounts to include in Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 568 of 580 Magionos - Direct 1554 1 your chart in Government Exhibit 63? 2 A. 3 activity or were relevant to the investigating -- 4 investigation, meaning they had transfers into their accounts 5 from other foreign entities, and they made transfers to vendors 6 for real estate purchases to DMP International or Davis 7 Manafort Partners or Mr. Manafort, his family, and related 8 entities. 9 Q. I included accounts that actually had transactional Okay. And over what time period did you -- did that 10 relate to? 11 A. 2010 through 2014. 12 Q. Okay. 13 Can you identify now the banks that are listed in your chart? 14 A. 15 Bank, and HSBC U.K. 16 Q. 17 and identify who the beneficial owner is? 18 A. 19 then as of January 21, 2013, Mr. Kilimnik. 20 Q. 21 Exhibit 66D, which is in evidence, and tell me what that is? 22 A. 23 application. 24 Q. 25 and tell me what that is? Yes. You testified that you've gotten these records. The banks are Bank of Cyprus, Hellenic Bank, Loyal Okay. Yes. Can I ask you to look at the entry in No. 1 and 2 The beneficial owner is listed as Mr. Manafort, and Okay. Can I ask you to take a look at Government This is an account opening document and bank account Okay. And can you take a look at Government Exhibit 4385 Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 569 of 580 Magionos - Direct Yes. 1555 1 A. This shows the beneficial owner for Actinet Trading 2 Limited, and it shows Mr. Manafort as the beneficial owner. 3 Q. Okay. 4 A. Mr. Manafort. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. This is a signature card. 7 Q. And who's listed on that document? 8 A. Eleni Chrysostomides, Chrystalla Pitsilli Dekatris, and 9 Myrianthi Christou. I'm sorry, who's listed as the beneficial owners? And can you turn to 4395 and tell me what that is? 10 Q. Can I ask you to turn to Government Exhibit -- to page 11 4401 of Government Exhibit 66D? 12 A. Okay. 13 MR. ANDRES: 14 THE COURT: 15 MR. ANDRES: 16 THE COURT: Your Honor, can I publish this document? Is it admitted? Yes. You may. 17 BY MR. ANDRES: 18 Q. 19 Bates number is 4401? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. What's the page number listed? 22 A. It's the last page. 23 Q. Okay. 24 bank records that you received in Government Exhibit 66D at 25 4401? Is there a page number listed on the bottom of there? Okay. The Can you tell me what was included in the Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 570 of 580 Magionos - Direct 1556 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And where did you find that document? 3 A. In the account opening documents. 4 Q. And where did those come from? 5 A. From Cyprus. 6 Q. Okay. 7 Hellenic Bank was one of the banks that provided documents. 8 9 This is a copy of Mr. Manafort's passport. You testified that with respect to the banks, Was there a correlation between the dates of the first transaction and those records and the relevant dates at 10 the Bank of Cyprus? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Can you explain what that was? 13 A. So when the accounts at the Bank of Cyprus closed, soon 14 after, there were transfers from those accounts directly to 15 Hellenic Bank. 16 Q. 17 opening -- or the opening balance and the dates of the first 18 transaction or the opening dates of the records at Hellenic 19 Bank, that they matched up or there was some issue between 20 those? 21 A. 22 account opening date or closing date, like the bank of Cyprus 23 did, and as a result, I used the balance forward date that was 24 listed on the statements as the account opening date, and then 25 I used the final transaction date as the date of the account Okay. And did you -- was there -- did you find that the As far as Hellenic Bank goes, they did not provide the Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 571 of 580 Magionos - Direct 1 closing. 2 Q. Okay. 3 4 1557 THE COURT: When you say, "they did not provide," you're referring to the bank? 5 THE WITNESS: 6 THE COURT: 7 BY MR. ANDRES: 8 Q. 9 tell me what that is? That's correct. Next question. With respect to Item 7 on Government Exhibit 63, can you 10 A. This is a summary of the account opening documents for 11 Bletilla Ventures Limited. 12 Q. 13 account, can I ask you to look at Government Exhibit 66D and 14 turn to Page 4480? Okay. 15 And with respect to those documents -- to that Can you tell me what that is? 16 A. This is a page that lists the beneficial owner for 17 Bletilla Ventures Limited. 18 Q. Okay. 19 MR. ANDRES: 20 THE COURT: 21 MR. ANDRES: 22 BY MR. ANDRES: 23 Q. 24 the number is? 25 A. May I publish that, Your Honor? You may. It's been admitted, hasn't it? Yes. Do you see in the middle of the page, at the bottom, what It's 4480. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 572 of 580 Magionos - Direct 1558 1 Q. It's -- not the Bates number, I'm sorry. The -- in the 2 middle of the bottom, there's a number that says 66D-page and 3 the page number. 4 A. Do you not see that? No. 5 MR. ANDRES: Okay. I'll move on, Your Honor. 6 BY MR. ANDRES: 7 Q. What is that document that you have? 8 A. This lists the beneficial owner for Bletilla Ventures 9 Limited. 10 Q. And what's the date of that? 11 A. It is February 1, 2012. 12 Q. Okay. 13 Can I ask you to look at Entry 14 on your chart? Can you tell me what that is? 14 A. This summarizes the account opening docs for LOAV Advisors 15 Limited. 16 Q. 17 the Bates No. 5105? Okay. 18 Can I ask you to look at Government Exhibit 66D and Can you tell me what that is? 19 A. Yes. This lists the beneficial owner and comes from the 20 bank account opening docs. 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. Mr. Gates and Mr. Manafort. 23 Q. Okay. 24 respect to creating the chart in Government Exhibit 63? 25 A. And who's listed as the beneficial owner? And is that the information you relied on with Yes. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 573 of 580 Magionos - Direct 1559 1 Q. And what's the date of the document 5105? 2 A. The date is October 8, 2007. 3 Q. Okay. 4 Can I ask you to look at the entries at 15 and 16? Tell me what those are. 5 A. Yes. 6 Lucicle Consultants Limited. 7 Q. 8 accounts, 15 and 16, can you take a look at Government 9 Exhibit 66D and Page 4248? Okay. 10 These summarize the account opening documents for And with respect to the signature cards for those Tell me what that is. 11 A. Yes. 12 Limited. 13 Q. Okay. 14 This is a signature card for Lucicle Consultants And can I ask you to turn to Page 4239? What's included there? 15 A. It's a copy of Mr. Manafort's passport. 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. From the account opening documents provided by Bank of 18 Cyprus. 19 Q. And what account was that related to? 20 A. Lucicle Consultants Limited. 21 Q. Okay. 22 No. 20? 23 And where did you receive that document? Can I ask you to take a look at the entry at Can you tell me what that is? 24 A. This summarizes the bank account opening docs for Marziola 25 Holdings Limited. Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 574 of 580 Magionos - Direct 1560 1 Q. And you testified earlier that the individuals listed on 2 the column on the far right were associated with Dr. K. 3 did you learn that? 4 A. Through the investigation, reviewing e-mails. 5 Q. Okay. 6 where did the information in the chart come from as it related 7 to Government Exhibit -- with respect to No. 26? 8 A. 9 of Cyprus. How And with regard to entry No. 26, Serangon Holdings, It was from the bank account opening documents from Bank 10 Q. Okay. And is it fair to say that in the context of 11 reviewing these records, you found other instances where 12 Mr. Manafort's passport was included? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And that was produced as part of the account opening 15 documents? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Do you know generally when the date was that the -- that 18 the accounts in Cyprus was closed? 19 A. They were closed in 2013. 20 Q. Okay. 21 learn that Mr. Manafort was interviewed at some point? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And when did that interview take place? 24 A. In July of 2014. 25 Q. And did you also learn that Mr. Gates was interviewed at And during the course of the investigation, did you Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 575 of 580 Magionos - Direct 1561 1 some point? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And when was that? 4 A. In July of 2014. 5 Q. That was after the accounts in Cyprus were closed? 6 A. Yes. 7 8 THE COURT: When we finish with this exhibit, we'll recess for lunch. 9 MR. ANDRES: Okay. Thank you, Judge. 10 question. 11 BY MR. ANDRES: 12 Q. 13 pursuant to a Title 31 subpoena; is that correct? 14 A. You testified that Mr. Manafort produced certain documents Yes. 15 MR. WESTLING: Your Honor, I just want to object. 16 don't think that's what the stipulation says. 17 they were produced by DMP International. 18 19 Just one other MR. ANDRES: THE COURT: I think it says Your Honor, the stipulation, it obviously stands for itself. 20 I I'll rephrase the question. All right. 21 BY MR. ANDRES: 22 Q. 23 entities; is that correct? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. And you relied on those at some point? There were documents produced by Mr. Manafort and his Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 576 of 580 Magionos - Direct 1562 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And that involved -- or that included bank records from 3 Cyprus; is that correct? 4 A. That's correct. 5 Q. Do you know when Mr. Manafort made that production? 6 7 MR. WESTLING: Again, objection. Same objection, Your Honor. 8 THE COURT: What's the objection? 9 MR. WESTLING: It's misstating what's in the 10 stipulation, which clearly states these were produced by DMP 11 International. 12 THE COURT: 13 objection. 14 BY MR. ANDRES: 15 Q. 16 production. 17 A. 18 19 All right. I'm just asking for the approximate date of the The date of the production was October 20, 2017. THE COURT: And so far as you know from the documents, was that production by DMP International? THE WITNESS: 21 THE COURT: I don't know. All right. Ladies and gentlemen -- you're done now? 23 MR. ANDRES: 24 THE COURT: 25 I'll overrule the Answer the question. 20 22 Go on. Yes, Your Honor. All right. Pass your books to the right. The court security officer will collect them, maintain their Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 577 of 580 Magionos - Direct 1563 1 security. 2 yourselves or with anyone or undertaking any investigation on 3 your own. 4 5 Remember to refrain from discussing the matter among Your lunches should be there. adequate. You may follow the court security officer out. 6 (Jury out.) 7 8 I hope they are THE COURT: All right. You may be seated for a moment. 9 Mr. Westling, I think you are aware of -- oh, I beg 10 your pardon. 11 correctly? Ms. Magionos, you -- did I pronounce your name 12 THE WITNESS: 13 THE COURT: 14 THE WITNESS: 15 THE COURT: Yes. You may take the luncheon recess. Thank you. You may step down. During your recess, 16 you may not discuss this -- your testimony with anyone, 17 including lawyers. 18 THE WITNESS: 19 THE COURT: 20 21 Okay. Thank you. You may depart. (Witness stood down.) THE COURT: Mr. Westling, you have the benefit of 22 receiving, I think, notice of what exhibits the Government 23 intends to offer through this witness. 24 MR. WESTLING: 25 THE COURT: Am I correct? That's correct, Your Honor. If you have any objections to those Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 578 of 580 1564 1 exhibits, I want you to disclose to Mr. -- well, yes, I want 2 you to disclose to Mr. Andres what your objection is to a 3 specific exhibit, see if you can reach accommodation. 4 I'll rule on it, but we want to move along fairly expeditiously 5 if we can. 6 Is that clear? 7 MR. WESTLING: 8 THE COURT: 9 If not, Yes, Your Honor. And the other thing is I don't know, Mr. Andres, whether you intend to have her read e-mails. She 10 may read admissible e-mails if they pertain to her 11 investigation, but you may not read -- have her read e-mails 12 that she didn't use, if they weren't part of her -- that's not 13 the way to present evidence. 14 MR. ANDRES: Am I clear? You are, Your Honor. I just -- just for 15 the record, I understand your ruling. 16 position that agents can read evidence that's admitted, so our 17 basis for asking that the other -- 18 THE COURT: 19 MR. ANDRES: 20 21 It's the Government's She's not even an agent. If what Your Honor is suggesting is that -THE COURT: I'm suggesting that if you want -- I told 22 you that it's admissible, and I don't know whether you've 23 already offered it, but it would be admitted, if it's an 24 admission and there's no other objection to it. 25 What I find problematic, troublesome is that you are Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 579 of 580 1565 1 going to have a witness read it, a witness who didn't use it in 2 her investigation, and she's just reading something that's in 3 the record. 4 I admit it. 5 You do that in your closing, if you want to, after MR. ANDRES: Understood, Judge, but does that mean 6 that an agent who was involved in those aspects of the 7 investigation could read that or -- 8 THE COURT: 9 MR. ANDRES: 10 11 12 Yes, it does. Okay. Thank you. That's very helpful, Judge. THE COURT: But you can't get somebody who has nothing to do with it to sit there and read it. 13 MR. ANDRES: 14 THE COURT: I completely understand, Your Honor. And how in the world could a defendant 15 cross-examine this? It's very difficult to anyone, but that 16 would make it impossible if the witness would simply say, "I 17 don't know. I was just given this to read." 18 MR. ANDRES: 19 THE COURT: 20 Thank you, Your Honor. All right. We will, we will recess until -- let's make it 1:35, and then we'll continue. 21 How much more do you anticipate, Mr. Andres? 22 MR. ANDRES: 23 THE COURT: 24 MR. ANDRES: 25 At least another hour, Your Honor. I thought we were shortening it. Well, we were. We started -- I don't think I've been speaking for much longer than 15 or 20 minutes, Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-1 Filed 12/10/19 Page 580 of 580 1566 1 2 3 but I'm sure there's a record of that somewhere. THE COURT: I'm merely asking that you make an effort to shorten it even more if you can. 4 MR. ANDRES: 5 THE COURT: 6 I'm not limiting it. Enjoy your lunch, Judge. Court stands in recess. (Recess from 12:40 p.m., until 1:35 p.m.) 7 8 9 10 CERTIFICATE OF THE REPORTER I certify that the foregoing is a correct transcript of the record of proceedings in the above-entitled matter. 11 12 13 /s/ Anneliese J. Thomson 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Anneliese J. Thomson OCR-USDC/EDVA (703)299-8595 Case Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 1 of 285 Exhibit 2 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 2 of 285 1801 1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA 2 3 4 5 6 7 United States of America, ) Criminal Action ) No. 19-CR-125 Plaintiff, ) ) JURY TRIAL vs. ) DAY 9 - Morning ) Public Transcript Gregory B. Craig, ) Washington, DC ) August 22, 2019 Defendant. ) Time: 9:30 a.m. ___________________________________________________________ 8 9 10 TRANSCRIPT OF JURY TRIAL - DAY 9 - MORNING HELD BEFORE THE HONORABLE JUDGE AMY BERMAN JACKSON UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE ____________________________________________________________ 11 A P P E A R A N C E S 12 For Plaintiff: Fernando Campoamor-Sanchez Molly Gulland Gaston U.S. Attorney's Office FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA 555 Fourth Street, NW Washington, DC 20530 (202) 252-7698 Email: [email protected] Email: [email protected] Jason Bradley Adam McCullough U.S. Department of Justice 950 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW Washington, DC 20530 (202) 233-0986 Email: [email protected] For Defendant: William James Murphy William W. Taylor, III Adam B. Abelson ZUCKERMAN SPAEDER, LLP 100 East Pratt Street Suite 2440 Baltimore, MD 21202 (410) 949-1146 Email: [email protected] Email: [email protected] Email: [email protected] 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 3 of 285 1802 Paula M. Junghans Ezra B. Marcus ZUCKERMAN SPAEDER, LLP 1800 M Street, NW Suite 1000 Washington, DC 20036 (202) 778-1814 Email: [email protected] Email: [email protected] 1 2 3 4 5 6 ____________________________________________________________ 7 Court Reporter: 8 9 Janice E. Dickman, RMR, CRR, CRC Official Court Reporter United States Courthouse, Room 6523 333 Constitution Avenue, NW Washington, DC 20001 202-354-3267 10 11 12 13 14 INDEX Witness: Richard Gates 15 Direct Examination By Mr. Campoamor-Sanchez..........1812 16 Cross-Examination By Ms. Junghans....................1893 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 * * * Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 4 of 285 1 THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: All rise. 1803 The United States 2 District Court for the District of Columbia is now in session, 3 the Honorable Richard -- 4 5 THE COURT: Richard Leon? Do I look like the Honorable I don't think so. 6 All right. 7 THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: 8 THE COURT: 9 All right. It's only 9:30. Have everybody put their names on the record, and then we can -- 10 THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: Your Honor, this is Criminal 11 Case Number 19-125, the United States of America v. Gregory B. 12 Craig. 13 14 Counsel, please approach the lectern and identify yourself and your colleagues for the record. 15 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: Good morning, Your Honor. 16 Molly Gaston, Jason McCullough, and 17 Fernandez Campoamor for the United States. 18 paralegal specialist Amanda Rohde. And with us is 19 THE COURT: 20 MS. JUNGHANS: 21 Paula Junghans, Bill Murphy, Bill Taylor and 22 Good morning. Good morning, Your Honor. Adam Abelson and Ezra Marcus for Mr. Craig. 23 THE COURT: All right. 24 MS. JUNGHANS: 25 THE COURT: And Mr. Craig is present. Good morning, everybody. I think Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 5 of 285 1804 1 you've -- the parties have both been informed, we -- Mr. Haley 2 received a note from a juror yesterday evening, or earlier this 3 morning, asking to be excused. 4 information. 5 sit in the witness stand, ask him if it's a matter that he 6 would prefer to discuss in private at the bench, or not. 7 We don't have any further My intention would be to bring him in, let him If he says it is, then we'll do it at the bench. 8 will be on the record, though. 9 there, then we'll let him sit there. It And if he's comfortable sitting And we'll find out what 10 it is before we figure out what to do about it. But if some 11 discussion is required, we will have him step out before we 12 discuss it. 13 Does anybody else think we should do anything else? 14 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 15 MS. JUNGHANS: 16 THE COURT: 17 Can you bring in the juror, Mr. Haley, and ask him to 18 No, Your Honor. No, Your Honor. All right. have a seat. 19 (Whereupon the juror enters the courtroom.) 20 THE JUROR: Good morning, Your Honor. 21 THE COURT: Good morning, sir. 22 I understand that Mr. Haley received an email from 23 you, asking if you could be excused from jury service. 24 Are you the one that sent the email to Mr. Haley? 25 THE JUROR: Yes, ma'am. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 6 of 285 1 THE COURT: All right. 1805 Now, I would like to ask you 2 the circumstances behind your request. If it's very personal 3 and you would like to come to the bench with the husher on, we 4 can accommodate that. 5 THE JUROR: Yes, ma'am. 6 THE COURT: There would still be a public record 7 being transcribed of what you're saying. 8 that you can discuss from there, or would you prefer to come to 9 the bench? 10 11 THE JUROR: So, is it something I would prefer to come to the bench, if I may, ma'am. 12 THE COURT: 13 Can I have somebody from both sides? 14 (Bench discussion:) 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 All right, sir. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 7 of 285 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1806 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 8 of 285 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1807 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 9 of 285 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1808 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 10 of 285 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1809 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 11 of 285 1810 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 (Whereupon the juror exits the courtroom.) 16 (Open court:) 17 THE COURT: That portion of the transcript will be 18 sealed, given the fact that it contained the jurors's personal 19 medical information. 20 at this time. 21 22 23 24 25 All right. And the juror is not going to be excused Are we ready to bring the jury in to start this morning's proceedings? MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: Yes. Do you want me to bring the witness in? THE COURT: Yeah. You can have him ready to go. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 12 of 285 1 I'll have you call him when the jury is seated. 2 Thank you. 3 (Whereupon the jury enters the courtroom.) 4 THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: 5 THE COURT: 6 everyone is present. 7 hear that many of you were here early, so I very much 8 appreciate that. 9 1811 All present, Your Honor. All right. Good morning. I note And when I arrived this morning, I could I take it that everyone has managed to follow the 10 instructions and not do have any research or have conversations 11 about the case overnight. 12 Okay. 13 There has been, you may notice, a little bit of a Everybody is nodding their heads. 14 seating rejiggering this morning. It is just for the physical 15 convenience of one of the jurors, and it has nothing to do 16 with -- it is -- no negative inferences should be drawn about 17 any of you for any reason. 18 convenience one of you. 19 about that. We just changed the seats to And we thank you for your flexibility 20 All right. 21 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 22 The government calls Richard Gates. 23 You can call your next witness. Thank you, Your Honor. RICHARD GATES, 24 was called as a witness and, having been first duly sworn, was 25 examined and testified as follows: Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 13 of 285 1 THE COURT: 2 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 3 1812 You can proceed. Thank you, Your Honor. DIRECT EXAMINATION 4 BY MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 5 Q. Good morning, sir. 6 A. Good morning. 7 Q. Can you please tell us your name and spell it for the 8 record? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. How old are you, sir? 11 A. I am 47 years old. 12 Q. Without telling us where you live -- or without telling us 13 your specific address, where do you live? 14 A. In Richmond, Virginia. 15 Q. Are you married, sir? 16 A. I am. 17 Q. Do you have kids? 18 A. I do. 19 Q. Can you please tell us your educational background? 20 A. Yes. 21 William & Mary, and then I received my master's of arts in 22 public policy from George Washington University. 23 Q. Sir, do you have any military experience? 24 A. I do. 25 Q. What is that? Richard W. Gates, G-A-T-E-S. I have four kids. I received a bachelor of arts from the College of Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 14 of 285 1 A. 2 half years. 3 Q. Did you receive an honorable discharge? 4 A. I did. 5 Q. Now, sir, are you currently unemployed? 6 A. I am. 7 Q. We're going to get back to that in a few minutes. I served in the Virginia Army National Guard for six and a 8 9 1813 But, first of all, do you know a man by the name of Paul Manafort? 10 A. I do. 11 Q. How is it that you know Mr. Manafort? 12 A. I worked for Mr. Manafort for approximately ten years, at 13 his firm. 14 Q. 15 approximately? 16 A. That was from 2006 until 2016. 17 Q. In what type of work was Mr. Manafort engaged during that 18 time period, just generally? 19 A. 20 on: 21 and the other was, Mr. Manafort had done a lot of work in 22 political consulting, both in the United States and 23 internationally. 24 Q. 25 And what time span was that, those ten years, Yeah. There were two things that I was primarily working One was a private equity fund that his firm had set up, And that was going to be my next question. So were some of those political projects overseas? Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 15 of 285 1814 1 A. Yes, they were. 2 Q. Where? 3 A. Primarily Ukraine, but there were other projects in 4 Montenegro, in Cyprus, in Pakistan, and a number of other 5 countries as well. 6 Q. And did you, yourself, travel and work in Ukraine? 7 A. I did. 8 Q. Approximately what period of time did you work in Ukraine? 9 A. From 2007 to about 2014, was the last project. 10 Q. What kind of work -- if you could tell the ladies and 11 gentlemen of the jury, what kind of work were you doing in 12 Ukraine, generally? 13 A. 14 building and political campaigns for various candidates. 15 in the period of 2007 to 2014, I helped by managing the 16 consultants that were hired in the United States that helped 17 with various parts of the election campaign. 18 Um-hum. So, primarily in Ukraine, we were doing party So, So that could be anything from grassroots efforts, 19 which entailed a lot of working on the ground. There was 20 election integrity, in terms of bringing groups from other 21 parts of the world to come and monitor the elections. 22 there was also the media and advertising components which we 23 worked on for the various candidates. 24 Q. 25 Mr. Manafort? And how would you describe your role, vis-à-vis And then Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 16 of 285 1 A. Yes. So I was an employee of Davis Manafort. 2 was the principal. 3 through the years and a couple of employees. 4 relatively small, and we hired different consultants for 5 different work that we needed. 6 Q. 1815 Mr. Manafort We had a series of different consultants But, the firm was If I can direct your attention now, briefly, to 2012. 7 Okay. Can you give us a brief description of what 8 was the political situation in Ukraine in 2012? 9 A. Um-hum. The primary issue for Ukraine at that time was to 10 gain entry into the European Union. 11 country, in terms of its geography and where it's located, 12 right on the border with Europe and with Russia. 13 kind of a constant tug and pull over which direction it would 14 go. 15 Ukraine is an interesting So, there was So, at the time in 2010, when we ran a campaign for 16 the president that was elected that year, the primary issue was 17 moving Ukraine to the west and getting them into the European 18 Union. 19 Q. 20 to sort of helping Ukraine move to the west -- 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. -- or the European Union? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. What was that? 25 A. Ukraine was a young democracy. And were there any -- in 2012, any significant roadblocks It had, at that time, I Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 17 of 285 1816 1 think, just three presidents that were elected by the people. 2 In one situation, a former prime minister was put on trial for 3 various criminal charges that she participated in while she was 4 prime minister. 5 As a result, that created some political tension in 6 Europe with respect to many of the European leaders believing 7 it was a politically motivated event. 8 Ukraine to kind of, you know, think about the idea of moving 9 into the European Union. So it was difficult for But, then, also, the idea that they 10 needed to look at criminal justice reform, and in that context 11 politically targeting, you know, previous leaders in the 12 country. 13 Q. 14 to Europe? 15 A. 16 United States that were the main two -- you know, I would say, 17 proponents of making sure this issue was resolved. 18 Q. Now, who was the president of Ukraine in 2012? 19 A. At that time, it was a gentleman by the name of 20 Viktor Yanukovych. 21 Q. 22 Mr. Yanukovych's election? 23 A. 24 for president. 25 Q. And was the criticism of Ukraine about that issue limited No, it was global. But, it was primarily Europe and the Did you and/or Mr. Manafort play any role in Yes. We ran Mr. Yanukovych's election in 2010, when he ran You and Mr. Manafort helped to get him elected? Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 18 of 285 1817 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Was Mr. Manafort and, therefore, you also working for -- or 3 still working for Mr. Yanukovych in 2012? 4 A. Yes, we were. 5 Q. And what was -- what was the role or what was the work that 6 you and Mr. Manafort were doing in Ukraine in 2012? 7 A. 8 obviously, was the effort to get Ukraine into the EU, so that 9 had many different components to it. Yeah. 10 So there were a number of efforts ongoing. One, Another effort that we worked on was a project that 11 included the law firm of Skadden Arps in doing a -- what we 12 call the Tymoshenko Report. 13 Mrs. Tymoshenko. 14 It was a review of the trial of And then we were also consulting on various policy 15 issues at the time that were relatively localized matters. 16 Q. So, I think you mentioned the law firm Skadden. 17 So what kind of companies or consultants were you and 18 Mr. Manafort employing in 2012 for these purposes? 19 A. 20 called FTI Consulting was hired. 21 two additional firms in Washington. 22 Europe were also hired for the project. 23 Q. Now, why was Skadden Arps hired in 2012? 24 A. So, Skadden was viewed as a very reputable law firm. 25 was the belief that a Western oriented law firm was needed Yep. So, in addition to Skadden, a public relations firm And then later on, we hired And a number of firms in It Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 19 of 285 1 2 1818 to -MS. JUNGHANS: Objection. It's not clear whether the 3 witness is speaking from his personal knowledge or if he's 4 conveying views or opinions of others. 5 THE COURT: 6 Were you involved in the decision to bring Skadden 7 All right. Arps on to write this report? 8 THE WITNESS: 9 THE COURT: 10 11 12 13 No, ma'am. Do you know who made the decision? THE WITNESS: Yes. The decision was made by Mr. Manafort. THE COURT: Okay. And who explained to you why the decision was made? 14 THE WITNESS: Mr. Manafort. 15 THE COURT: 16 Do you still have an objection? 17 MS. JUNGHANS: 18 THE COURT: 19 (Bench discussion:) 20 MS. JUNGHANS: Thank you. I do. All right. Can we approach the bench? Well, I think this is the problem we 21 anticipated, is that he didn't do most of these things himself. 22 What he knows he knows because he was told by Manafort. 23 though this is maybe sort of general background, I think it's 24 on the same point, the same principle. 25 THE COURT: All right. Even Well, the question is, he is Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 20 of 285 1 talking about something that he learned from out-of-court 2 statements of Mr. Manafort. 3 asking him for any statement that goes to the truth of some 4 matter asserted. 5 he picked Skadden for other reasons. 6 testified why they picked Skadden. 7 getting into some hearsay statement. 1819 But, I'm not sure that they're I think he's saying that he understood that 8 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 9 MS. JUNGHANS: I believe Mr. Schoen has So, I'm not sure that we're Yeah. If -- I'm sorry. 10 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 11 MS. JUNGHANS: I didn't want to interrupt. As I said, Your Honor, I appreciate 12 this particular statement may not be momentous, but, I think 13 we're launching into a recitation of what we did. 14 didn't; Manafort did, and he only knows about it because 15 Manafort told him. 16 THE COURT: And "we" I think he was the foot soldier for a lot 17 of things that were done. 18 specifics, I think it's important to say -- ask him what he 19 personally did as opposed to what David -- Mr. Manafort did. 20 And you can ask him, Did you do it at anyone's direction? 21 And I think -- as we move into more And he can say he did it at Manafort's direction, or 22 was it his own initiation. 23 witnesses have said -- I think people have testified, I did X. 24 And so it's a direction. 25 But, he can certainly say, as other And did you speak to so and so? Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 21 of 285 1 Yes. 2 As a result of that, what did you do? 3 I did X, Y, and Z. 4 I think we can try to limit how much of what 5 Mr. Manafort said comes in. 6 at a person's direction, in and of itself, doesn't violate 7 hearsay. 1820 But, I think, since he was acting 8 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 9 MS. JUNGHANS: Sure. And can I -- Sorry. 10 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 11 So -- yeah. Thank you. So, I'm not trying to suggest -- and I 12 think what the witness was making reference to is, Manafort is 13 making the decisions. 14 implementing all these things, and this is -- I'm just 15 literally setting up the background about whether we're going 16 to -- 17 THE COURT: But he is part of the team that is This particular decision, after I talked 18 to him, it seems to have been pretty -- he wasn't consulted, 19 Mr. Gates wasn't consulted -- 20 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 21 THE COURT: Correct. -- because of Manafort. I think he was 22 told why. And I think he was told why, Manafort says why he 23 did what he did, isn't particularly objectionable. 24 take your point that you don't want to open the door to have 25 just everything Manafort says comes in as a Manafort exception But I do Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 22 of 285 1 to the hearsay rule. It may happen. 2 MS. JUNGHANS: 3 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 4 1821 Precisely. Precisely. I'm not trying to do that. I'm just trying to lay the background for the -- 5 THE COURT: As we move forward, I think it's going to 6 be very important to say, you know, What did you do, as opposed 7 to, What did Davis Manafort do, and then it will be clearer. 8 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 9 MS. JUNGHANS: 10 THE COURT: 11 (Open court:) Right. Thank you. All right. Thank you. 12 BY MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 13 Q. 14 from -- but, did you know what the purpose was of hiring 15 Skadden Arps -- 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. -- in 2012? 18 A. Yes, I do. 19 Mr. Manafort. Did you know -- and please tell us where you know this And the information was conveyed to me by The purpose of Skadden being hired was -- 20 MS. JUNGHANS: 21 THE COURT: Objection. I'm sorry. I think that we just ruled 22 that he could testify why he understood, based on what 23 Mr. Manafort said, that they were choosing -- they were hiring 24 that firm with respect to this issue. 25 All right. Go ahead. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 23 of 285 There were two components to it: 1822 1 A. One, Skadden was viewed 2 as a very credible Western firm. 3 a very experienced and credible attorney that would give the 4 project visibility globally. 5 inside and outside of the law, it was very relevant to have 6 somebody of that stature associated with the Report, 7 particularly for the Western leaders to believe that it was an 8 independent and credible report. 9 BY MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: And number two, Mr. Craig was And given his success, both 10 Q. If you know, why would an independent report help Ukraine? 11 A. An independent report would help Ukraine for a number of 12 reasons. 13 Ukrainian report. 14 judicial system, especially at that time, given the -- that it 15 was a young democracy, was not very effective. The primary one was, this could not have been a 16 Ukraine, kind of, evaluating its own So, you needed, particularly with the EU involved and 17 the United States, a Western-oriented firm to be able to lead 18 this effort, particularly one that had experience doing this in 19 the past. 20 Q. 21 engagement? 22 A. I did. 23 Q. And what was your role? 24 A. I was primarily the intermediary for a number of people 25 that were associated with Skadden and FTI. Did you, personally, have a role regarding the Skadden We had a small team Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 24 of 285 1 of people in Ukraine that dealt with local issues. 2 liaised with one lawyer in particular from Skadden. 3 Mr. Manafort typically managed my delegation. 4 1823 I primarily So, I was an intermediary for various parts of the 5 Skadden Report. 6 Q. 7 for the Skadden Report? 8 A. Yes, I did. 9 Q. What was, just generally, your role for that process? 10 A. I was the primarily link between our firm and FTI. 11 capacity, I worked with Jonathan Hawker, who was the primary 12 point of contact for us in regards to an overall media and a 13 government relations plan related to the rollout of the Report. 14 Q. 15 transpired in 2012, I want to go back to the issue of your 16 current unemployment. And did you have any involvement in the PR strategy rollout All right. 17 In that Mr. Gates, before we get to the specifics, what Why are you currently unemployed? 18 A. I'm currently unemployed. I was indicted in 2017 in 19 relation to a larger investigation. 20 largely been unemployed. 21 Q. 22 of charges? 23 A. I am. 24 Q. All right. 25 evidence as Government's Exhibit 625. Since that time, I have And, sir, are you currently pending sentencing for a number And let's take a look at what's already in Hopefully, you have a Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 25 of 285 1 copy of that in front. 2 page on the screen. 3 1824 But, if not, we'll also put the first Do you recognize what's Government's Exhibit 625? 4 A. Yes, I do. 5 Q. What is it? 6 A. This is a copy of my plea agreement. 7 Q. Okay. 8 A. With the government. 9 Q. And if we can take a look at -- under charges. 10 And -- And let me just ask you, first of all, sir, did you 11 plead guilty, in the case referenced in your plea agreement, to 12 conspiracy against the United States? 13 A. I did. 14 Q. And was this plea part of a cooperation agreement? 15 A. It was. 16 Q. And did you also plead guilty, sir, to making a false 17 statement to the Special Counsel's Office, Robert Mueller's 18 office? 19 A. I did. 20 Q. Let me ask you, first of all, what is the maximum penalty 21 you can receive for the charge of conspiracy? 22 A. Up to five years. 23 Q. How about for the penalty for making a false statement to 24 the Special Counsel's Office? 25 A. That's up to five years, as well. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 26 of 285 1 Q. 2 guidelines range? 3 A. 1825 And are you familiar with what is called the estimated Yes, I've learned. 4 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: If we could take a look now 5 at page 3, at the bottom. Zoom in. 6 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 7 Q. 8 of your sentence for the charges you pled guilty to? 9 A. The estimated range is from 57 to 71 months. 10 Q. So, Mr. Gates, under a cooperation agreement, what is it 11 that you agreed to do? 12 A. 13 documents and other material to the United States government. 14 And agreed to help them in any cases or trials that they were 15 working on. 16 Q. 17 pursuant to this cooperation agreement? 18 A. I have. 19 Q. Did you, in fact, provide evidence to government 20 investigators about what they were looking for? 21 A. Yes, I did. 22 Q. Have you met with government investigators? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And answered their questions? 25 A. Yes, I have. And what is the calculated and estimated guidelines range So, I agreed to tell the truth. I agreed to provide Have you, in fact, testified in a different trial for -- Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 27 of 285 1826 1 Q. About how many times, if you know? 2 A. Over the course of almost two years, probably, you know, at 3 least 40 times. 4 Q. Now, what is the most important -- 5 6 Probably more. THE COURT: Is that with respect to more than one matter or is that just with respect to this matter? 7 THE WITNESS: 8 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 9 No, ma'am, that was multiple matters. Thank you, Your Honor. BY MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 10 Q. 11 government 40 times on this case. 12 Yeah. I did not mean to suggest that you met with the Sir, what is the most important thing you are 13 required to do under this cooperation plea agreement? 14 A. To tell the truth. 15 Q. Now, did the government also make you some promises under 16 this agreement? 17 A. It laid out some conditions in the agreement, yes. 18 Q. All right. 19 20 So, let's take a look at some of those. If we can look at page 2, the heading under Additional Charges. 21 What was one of the things the government agreed to 22 do? 23 A. 24 drop additional charges that were brought in 2017. 25 Q. One of the things the government did was, they agreed to So another separate case? Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 28 of 285 1827 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. In another jurisdiction? 3 A. Correct. 4 Q. All right. 5 prosecute you for other charges? 6 A. It did. 7 Q. What are we talking about there? 8 A. Those were charges related to some previous activity in 9 regards to taxes, tax returns, FARA registration, and other And did the government also agree not to 10 activities. 11 Q. 12 required to sort of inform the government about other things 13 that may have been crimes that you committed? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. All right. 16 government also make you other promise with regards to your 17 cooperation? And as part of this cooperation agreement, were you So, in addition to the charges, did the 18 And if we can look at page 5. 19 You can explain to the ladies and gentlemen of the 20 jury what else the government agreed to do. 21 A. 22 the -- the government also agreed to, upon my cooperation -- 23 Q. Oh, no, you're right. 24 A. Yeah. 25 Q. Thank you. Yes. I think this is actually what I agreed to. But, You're correcting me and you're absolutely Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 29 of 285 1 1828 right. 2 If we can go to page 6, paragraph 9. 3 A. The government agreed to write what was called a 5K1 4 letter, which outlines everything I've done right, everything 5 I've done wrong. 6 would kind of codify all of my activity in cooperation for the 7 judge's review. 8 Q. 9 one, what would that do? And the 5K1 letter would be a document that And what does that 5K letter -- if the government provides 10 A. 11 previous page. 12 Q. 13 government specified or provided? 14 A. 15 to request probation, if we -- you move in that direction. 16 Q. 17 "Depending on the precise nature of the defendant's substantial 18 assistance, the office may not oppose defendant's application"? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. All right. 21 you cooperated, that's what the government agreed to do? 22 A. Correct. 23 Q. All right. 24 25 It could potentially reduce the sentence that was on the So, sir -- and let me ask you, anything else that the Yeah. The government also agreed not to oppose my motion Is that located at the top on page 7, where I'm reading, So, there's not a guarantee, but, assuming that Now, sir, we've been talking about the government and what it promised you. But, who, ultimately, is responsible for Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 30 of 285 1829 1 sentencing you? 2 A. The judge in my case. 3 Q. What do you think will happen to you if the judge in your 4 case decides that you're not being truthful? 5 MS. JUNGHANS: 6 THE COURT: Objection. He can answer the question. 7 A. I think the judge would find it not good. And also the 8 government could tear up my, you know, plea agreement if I'm 9 not telling the truth. 10 BY MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 11 Q. And who is the judge that will sentence you in this case? 12 A. She's right here, next to me, Mrs. -- Judge Jackson. 13 Q. All right. 14 Mr. Gates, let's move on, then. Can you please tell the ladies and gentlemen of the 15 jury, what is the first task you actually remember 16 accomplishing with regards to the Skadden engagement? 17 A. 18 to the Skadden law firm as the beginnings of the Report. 19 that process, Mr. Manafort described to me in a little -- The first task that I was given was to make a wire transfer 20 MS. JUNGHANS: 21 THE COURT: 22 In Objection. All right. Just -- your task was to send a wire transfer? 23 THE WITNESS: 24 THE COURT: 25 THE WITNESS: Yes, ma'am. All right. Yes. At Mr. Manafort's direction? Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 31 of 285 1 THE COURT: 2 So, ask your next question. 3 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: Okay. 4 BY MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 5 Q. 6 "process." Yes. And how was it that you process or arranged -- not 7 8 1830 How do you accomplish that task? A. Yes. 9 Mr. Manafort described to me -THE COURT: I think the concern is, there's just 10 general rules about people on the witness stand saying what 11 somebody else said when the somebody else isn't here and only 12 you're here. 13 if you could just answer what you did, without offering up what 14 you were told by Mr. Manafort, unless the question specifically 15 calls for what you were told by Mr. Manafort, that might ease 16 the interruptions. So, if he asks you a question about what you did, 17 THE WITNESS: Okay. Sure. 18 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: And, Your Honor, would it be 19 possible for him to describe the instructions he received as to 20 how to accomplish the payment? 21 Court? 22 23 24 25 THE COURT: Would that be acceptable to the Well, just that it had to be wired to X, Y, Z place? MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: Yes, I believe, and through a particular method, a particular company. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 32 of 285 1 THE COURT: 2 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: Why don't we just find out what he did. Okay. 3 BY MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 4 Q. What did you do? 5 A. Yes. 6 Skadden. 7 that our firm would be receiving a -- So, I was tasked by Mr. Manafort to make a wire to And in that process, I was told that we would be -- 8 MS. JUNGHANS: 9 THE COURT: 10 1831 Objection. All right. Just, what happened? What did you do? 11 THE WITNESS: Um-hum. So, I -- I sent a wire to 12 Skadden through a -- an account that belonged to Mr. Manafort 13 that had received an incoming transfer by a Ukrainian business 14 man in order to make that payment to Skadden. 15 BY MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 16 Q. 17 that payment to Skadden? 18 A. Black Sea View Limited. 19 Q. And where was that account located? 20 A. In Cyprus. 21 Q. Let me ask you, from your own knowledge, was the Skadden 22 Report or the Skadden engagement limited to writing the Report 23 on the Tymoshenko prosecution, or did it include something 24 else? 25 A. And what was the name of the account that was used to make No. There was other activity that Skadden was working on Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 33 of 285 1832 1 in relation to another case. 2 Q. And what was that other case you're making reference to? 3 A. The other case was another case involving the former prime 4 minister, Yulia Tymoshenko, and her trial. 5 Q. 6 a case that was upcoming in the future? 7 A. That was a case that was upcoming. 8 Q. So, let me ask you, did -- I believe you told us, but now 9 that you sort of started with the engagement, what were your Was that a case that also happened in the past, or was that 10 responsibilities, if any, regarding public relations as it 11 relates to the Skadden Report on the Tymoshenko trial? 12 A. 13 to help find a PR firm that had expertise in legal matters. 14 And we started -- I started working with an attorney from 15 Skadden who had a company that the firm had used -- which was 16 FTI -- in other matters. 17 looked at to use in this project. 18 Q. 19 with related to that? 20 A. 21 Alex van der Zwaan. 22 Q. 23 process or hiring of FTI to do that work? 24 A. 25 the project kicked off, I like to say, there were a lot of Sure. So one of the additional tasks that I was given was And it was a firm that we vetted and And who was the attorney at Skadden that you were dealing At that time, it was a gentleman by the name of Were there any issues with regards to the contracting Yes. There were -- early on there were -- just kind of as Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 34 of 285 1 cooks in the kitchen. 2 Skadden -- 3 4 Objection. -- excuse me, how FTI -- 5 6 And there was some discussion about how MS. JUNGHANS: A. 1833 THE COURT: Wait. Let him just -- he can say that a topic was discussed and that it was an issue. 7 So what was the issue bringing FTI on board, without 8 saying exactly what Mr. Manafort -- what was the nature of the 9 problem? 10 THE WITNESS: Yeah. The nature of the problem is, 11 given the client and -- meaning, the Ukrainian government -- 12 the nature of the issue was who FTI was going to be 13 subcontracted under. 14 were trying to get FTI organized under. 15 essence, the issue. 16 BY MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 17 Q. Okay. 18 A. It did. 19 Q. Did it resolve quickly or did it take some time? 20 A. No. 21 Q. So was FTI paid, ultimately, for their work? 22 A. They were. 23 Q. Were they paid in full, though, for all their expenses? 24 A. No, they were not. 25 Q. And why was that? There were a number of parties that we And that was, in And did that issue ultimately get resolved? It took quite a bit of time. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 35 of 285 1834 1 A. At the time FTI started, they had deployed a pretty 2 significant team on the ground. 3 approved by the client, but it was in the works. 4 time in order to get everything lined up, in terms of their 5 contract and the payment mechanism of who would actually pay 6 them. 7 They had not technically been It took some They were ultimately paid, but, in fact, it was 8 Mr. Manafort who advanced FTI their fees and dealt with the 9 client behind the scenes to help get that payment taken care of. 10 Q. 11 with the public relations campaign associated with the rollout 12 of the Skadden Report in the United States? 13 A. 14 that were originally not hired for the Skadden Report, but it 15 became one of their tasks as kind of an overall strategic plan 16 for consulting in Washington, D.C. 17 Q. 18 Exhibit 166. 19 also have it in front of you. 20 In addition to FTI, were, ultimately, other firms involved Yes. In the United States, there were two specific firms Let me show you what's been admitted as Government's Should be on your screen, but, hopefully, you MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: And if we can zoom in. Thank 21 you. 22 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 23 Q. What are we looking at in Government's Exhibit 166? 24 A. This is an email from me to most of the individuals from 25 both teams here in the U.S., and then it also includes some of Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 36 of 285 1835 1 our European firms that were hired. 2 Q. 3 here? 4 A. 5 Group. 6 Q. And you said there were some Europeans in here as well? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And what kind of firm or group were they associated with? 9 A. So, in Europe we used a series of bigger firms, Who were the teams in the U.S. that you were dealing with The two in the U.S. were Mercury consulting and the Podesta 10 Burson-Marsteller, FleishmanHillard. And they were tasked with 11 the same thing but just doing it in Europe. 12 Q. And how about Ms. Ina Kirsch? 13 A. Ms. Ina Kirsch was the executive director of an 14 organization called the European Centre for a Modern Ukraine. 15 Q. And why was she being copied on this? 16 A. Ina was part of the kind of governing group that hired the 17 European consultants on behalf of the client. 18 Q. 19 wrote. 20 "The names you provide will be potentially put into direct 21 contact with the lawyers working on the case for background 22 information, Q&A, and interviews/meetings." Who was she with? So taking a look at the actual body of the email that you You write here, at the bottom of the first paragraph, 23 Can you explain what you were trying to convey in 24 that sentence? 25 A. Yes. At that time, we were going through kind of different Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 37 of 285 1836 1 iterations of how we would run a public relations and 2 government relations campaign. 3 although it changed, was that lawyers from Skadden would do 4 background briefings on their report and their work. 5 reasoning for that was that there would be no better group to 6 be able to talk about their work than the group that actually 7 did the work. 8 Q. 9 relations. Part of the original plan, And the Now, you mentioned public relations and government Yes. Are those two separate things? 10 A. Kind of in the way that we set up the strategic plan, 11 there were kind of two components. 12 public relations component. 13 government relations component, and that was ensuring that, 14 particularly leaders in the west, in Europe, were apprised of 15 the Report and knew of its findings and conclusions. 16 Q. 17 companies for this purpose? 18 A. 19 relations world, they knew journalists, some had actually 20 worked for some of the publications that we were looking at. 21 So, it was a way of setting up kind of a very methodical way of 22 reaching out to people, both in the public relations world and 23 the government relations world, with some built-in 24 relationships to help foster the project through. 25 Q. There was clearly the But, just as important was the And, if you know, what was the idea behind using these Yeah. These companies had contacts, both in the public And, finally, is the date of this email June 24th, 2012? Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 38 of 285 1 A. Yes, it is. 2 Q. All right. 3 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 1837 You can take that down. 4 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 5 Q. 6 you have much contact with Mr. Greg Craig? 7 A. 8 Mr. Craig a total of five times, sometimes in different 9 matters. Now, let me ask you, Mr. Gates, during this project, did No, I didn't have much direct contact. I think I met with But, that was, I think, the extent of it. And then 10 some emails and communications. 11 Q. Okay. 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And do you see him in the courtroom here today? 14 A. I do. 15 Q. Can you tell us where he's seated and what he's wearing? 16 A. He is a wearing a blue suit and -- it looks like a sort of 17 red tie. And would you recognize him, though? 18 He's sitting right over there (indicating.) THE COURT: All right. The record will reflect he's 19 referring to the defendant. 20 BY MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 21 Q. 22 Mr. Craig? 23 A. Mr. Manafort. 24 Q. Okay. 25 would you find out about those contacts that Mr. Manafort had If you know, who was the main contact between your firm and Now, without telling us about the actual statements, Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 39 of 285 1838 1 with Mr. Craig? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. So he would brief you on them? 4 A. Yes, he would. 5 Q. And why were you briefed on those? 6 A. I was briefed because a lot of the conversations between he 7 and Mr. Craig resulted in action items that I and other people 8 on the team had to carry out. 9 Q. The ones that he informed me of, I did. And I think you said it, but just to be clear. So, who was 10 your main point of contact at Skadden, if you had one? 11 A. 12 Skadden. 13 Q. 14 contact? 15 A. FTI, it was Jonathan Hawker. 16 Q. Now, let me ask you, did you, personally, have some 17 opportunities to discuss the media rollout plan with Mr. Craig? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Tell us about that. 20 A. Sure. 21 had a very general discussion about a potential media plan and 22 government relations plan in terms of what Mr. Craig might do 23 specifically. Mine, it was Alex van der Zwaan, who is an attorney for And for FTI, who would have been your main point of The first was early on in the project, in which we It was broad in nature. 24 MS. JUNGHANS: 25 THE COURT: Objection. Although -- Leading. Time and place. Well, he's talking about at the first Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 40 of 285 1 meeting. 2 3 The direct is allowed to conduct its direct. All right. A. Okay. 4 1839 You can continue your answer. Timeframe, I think it was June, July. The -- following that, there was a second meeting in 5 September, in New York, which I was part of a group that met 6 Mr. Craig; and at which time, we also had discussions on public 7 relations and government relations. 8 BY MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 9 Q. Okay. So, let me ask you, first, do you have a 10 recollection of the defendant ever suggesting that a reporter 11 be used as part of the media rollout plan? 12 A. I do. 13 Q. Tell us about that recollection. 14 A. Yeah. 15 reporter from The New York Times as somebody that might be 16 interested in writing this and that he had a specific 17 relationship with that could -- he could reach out to and help 18 with that effort. 19 Q. Did he explain to you how he knew that reporter? 20 A. He just said, historically. 21 Q. And do you recall the name? 22 A. The name was David Sanger. 23 Q. And in terms of when you first heard Mr. Craig mention 24 that, is that in relationship to the second meeting at the 25 Harvard Club? The first recollection is that Mr. Craig had named a Or was that in relation to the first meeting Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 41 of 285 1840 1 earlier, that you just were talking about? 2 A. 3 came up in more detail in the second meeting, in December. 4 Q. 5 you do anything about it? 6 A. 7 things that both our firm and FTI were trying to determine, how 8 good of a reporter Mr. Sanger was, and kind of the general 9 areas of topics that he covered in his reporting. The first mention was at the first meeting. And then it When Mr. Craig mentioned Mr. Sanger for the first time, did Yes. Later on I looked up Mr. Sanger, because one of the 10 Q. And when you say you looked him up, what does that mean? 11 A. Sure. 12 know, who he was and kind of his expertise. 13 Q. 14 sorry -- that Mr. Craig said about Mr. Sanger about why he 15 could be a good reporter for this? 16 A. 17 reporter, and that we wouldn't necessarily get a positive 18 article, but we would get a good article, and he was very 19 credible in the space. 20 help with our PR strategy. 21 Q. Okay. Basically, did a Google search, just to see, you And do you recall anything else that Mr. -- I'm He said that Mr. Sanger is a tough reporter but a fair And that would, you know, obviously, Moving on to a slightly different topic. 22 Was there a specific strategy about how the Report 23 would be released? 24 A. 25 we were able to get a first article, and not knowing if the Yes. The idea behind our PR strategy is -- it was that if Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 42 of 285 1841 1 article was going to be positive or neutral, the idea was that 2 most of the other reporters would follow the lead off of that. 3 And that's kind of a very common practice. 4 typically don't like to do all of their own legwork, so they 5 borrow from other reporters. Journalists 6 And by getting a story in there that could actually 7 capture the essence of the Report, at least in a neutral way, 8 would be great for us and the client, because then the other 9 journalists would likely cover in that same fashion. 10 So it was kind of like a domino effect, where if you 11 get one good article, then a lot of the other articles would 12 follow suit. 13 Q. 14 selected, in the United States, to be the person to get this 15 article? Now, Mr. Gates, who was the reporter that was ultimately 16 MS. JUNGHANS: 17 THE COURT: 18 Objection. Selected by whom? He gets to ask his questions. There's no -- that's not an objectionable question. 19 Overruled. 20 Who was the reporter selected. If he asks him who 21 selected him, and if he doesn't know, then he won't be able to 22 answer. 23 24 25 But, he can ask the question he asked. Who was the reporter selected to be the one in the United States? THE WITNESS: The reporter selected was David Sanger Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 43 of 285 1842 1 from The New York Times. 2 BY MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 3 Q. Who made the decision to use Sanger of The New York Times? 4 A. Mr. Manafort. 5 Q. And -- 6 MS. JUNGHANS: 7 THE COURT: 8 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 9 THE COURT: 10 Objection. Yes. You can talk, but we're just going to talk up here. (Bench discussion:) 12 THE COURT: It's not bringing in a statement of Mr. Manafort for the truth of the matter asserted. 14 15 Hearsay. Can you approach the bench? 11 13 Move to strike. MS. JUNGHANS: Well, actually, I think it is. It's him saying Manafort told him he chose David Sanger. 16 THE COURT: He is allowed to say, if he was at 17 meetings where decisions were made, that Mr. Manafort made the 18 decision. 19 MS. JUNGHANS: Well, but he didn't say he was at a 20 meeting where Mr. Manafort made a decision. 21 happened and he learned about it. 22 THE COURT: 23 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: He just said it What's your response to that? So, he is in a lot of 24 meetings with Mr. Manafort. And, actually, I thought they 25 would like to hear that from his perspective, the person that Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 44 of 285 1843 1 made the call that that would be the reporter that the story 2 would be seeded and leaked to was Mr. Manafort. 3 made the call. 4 That's who And that's the instructions he received. He's the one that -- we're going to get to the plan, 5 right, where Mr. Sanger is included. I'm going to get to the 6 document, and he's going to say, Yeah, I put that there, and I 7 put that there because Mr. Manafort told me. 8 have some follow-up questions as to when that happened 9 time-wise. But I am going to It's an instruction he received. 10 Who selected him? 11 Manafort did. 12 MS. JUNGHANS: No. No. An instruction is do 13 something. It's -- I mean, it may be right on the Report, but 14 to say Manafort told me to write this on the Report is one 15 thing. 16 reporter is a different thing. To say Manafort made the decision to choose the 17 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 18 MS. JUNGHANS: 19 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 20 the conversation. 21 It's not a different thing. I think it is. He knows that because he had Somebody told him to do it and he did it. THE COURT: All right. All right. I'm going to ask 22 if he was at a meeting where Manafort said, I made the 23 decision. 24 simply told him that a decision had been made. 25 This is my decision to do this, or if Manafort MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: Okay. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 45 of 285 1 2 THE COURT: And then we'll go on from there. 1844 All right. 3 MS. JUNGHANS: Okay. I mean, I'm trying not to jump 4 up. But, at the same time, I think we're getting a lot of 5 hearsay that's sort of sneaking in because he says -- you know, 6 he doesn't frame it, at least at first blush, as a hearsay 7 statement. 8 9 THE COURT: I think he's trying to frame it properly, and sometimes the witness is answering the way a normal person 10 would answer, as opposed to a witness bound by the hearsay 11 rules. 12 MS. JUNGHANS: 13 THE COURT: I understand that. And so I think everybody is doing the 14 best they can here, and I don't think there's anything 15 nefarious going on. 16 some of them are relative to him and some aren't, and we're 17 trying to move along. 18 this particular objection before he's allowed to speak further 19 about it. And with respect to objections, I think And I will try to get to the bottom of 20 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 21 MS. JUNGHANS: 22 (Open court:) 23 THE COURT: 24 25 Thank you. Thank you, Your Honor. All right. Mr. Gates, just try to answer my questions as directly as you can. Were you at a meeting at which Mr. Manafort made a Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 46 of 285 1 decision about this issue? 2 3 THE WITNESS: THE COURT: 5 THE WITNESS: 6 THE COURT: 7 THE WITNESS: 8 THE COURT: 10 I don't recall if it was a meeting or a phone call, but he told me the decision. 4 9 1845 So he told you what to do? Correct. That Mr. Sanger would be the person? Yes. So you can't say, from your personal knowledge, whether he made that decision or someone else told him to do it and then he was carrying it on to you? 11 THE WITNESS: That is true, yes. 12 THE COURT: 13 Ask your next question. All right. 14 BY MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 15 Q. 16 instruction, was that after Mr. Craig had suggested the name of 17 David Sanger previously? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Before the defendant mentioned Mr. Sanger, to your 20 knowledge, had Mr. Sanger ever been considered to be the 21 journalist to seed the Report? 22 A. Not to my knowledge. 23 Q. All right. 24 25 All right. And, Mr. Gates, when Manafort gave you that Let's move on. In the months before the release, was there more than one PR plan produced? Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 47 of 285 1846 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Why were there multiple plans produced? 3 A. There were a lot of false starts with the release of the 4 Report. 5 continued to get close to each release of the Report, the 6 Report was refined. 7 there was more skill sets brought to the overall strategic 8 effort. 9 living, breathing document that we continued to work on. There were issues on multiple sides. And then as we There were additional firms added. So it continued to kind of morph. So, It was kind of a 10 Q. Now, through all of these multiple plans that you 11 described, did the strategy change, ever, about seeding the 12 Report to a journalist? 13 A. No, the strategy never changed about seeding the Report. 14 Q. All right. 15 happened in New York. 16 A. Um-hum. 17 Q. Let's talk about that. 18 person with the defendant and others? 19 A. It was. 20 Q. And do you recall approximately when that happened? 21 A. That was in late September. 22 Q. And where did that meeting take place? 23 A. It took place at the Harvard Club in New York City. 24 Q. What was the purpose of that meeting? 25 A. The purpose of the meeting was, in large part, to level set You told us a little bit about a meeting that Was that a meeting that you had in Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 48 of 285 1 1847 on several issues. 2 THE COURT: Now you're using PR speak. 3 What is "level set"? 4 THE WITNESS: 5 It was a meeting that was called in order to review a Sorry. Sorry. 6 number of the topics that related both to the Report, the 7 Tymoshenko Report, in terms of its content, and then also for 8 the media and government relations rollout plan. 9 BY MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 10 Q. Before the meeting took place, did you receive an updated 11 media rollout plan? 12 an updated media plan? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Let's take a look at Government's Exhibit 254 that is 15 already in evidence. Yeah. Before the meeting, did you receive 16 We can take a look at the top. 17 THE COURT: 18 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 19 THE COURT: Is it 284 or 254? 2-5-4, Your Honor. Okay. 20 BY MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 21 Q. Do you recall this email, Mr. Gates? 22 A. I do. 23 Q. And what is this email? 24 A. This was an email sent by Mr. Hawker after a conversation 25 with Mr. Manafort and myself in regards to getting all the Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 49 of 285 1 documents out in advance of the meeting. 2 Q. 3 Exhibit 254? 4 A. He is. 5 Q. If we can please take a look at page 2 of the exhibit. 1848 And is Mr. Craig one of the recipients of Government's 6 What are -- and I'll zoom in. 7 But, what are we looking at here, if you recognize, 8 sir? 9 A. Or do you want me to zoom in right now? Yeah. This document is an agenda that was drafted by 10 Mr. Hawker, with help and input from me. 11 Q. 12 Club? 13 A. 14 but all the topics were covered at the meeting. 15 Q. 16 meeting that took place before the Harvard Club meeting with 17 the other people that attended? 18 A. There was. 19 Q. And who was that meeting between? 20 A. Mr. Manafort and Mr. Craig. 21 Q. And when did that meeting happen? 22 A. That meeting happened prior to our meeting. 23 I believe it was the night before. 24 Q. Were you at that meeting? 25 A. I was not at that meeting. And was this agenda followed at the meeting at the Harvard Yes. I don't know if it was followed exactly by number, And if you know from personal knowledge, was there a It happened -- Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 50 of 285 1 Q. So you don't know what was discussed at that meeting? 2 A. I do not. 3 Q. All right. 4 meeting? 5 A. Yes. Do you know what the purpose was of having that Part of the purpose -- 6 MS. JUNGHANS: 7 THE COURT: 8 Objection. Objection. Foundation. Were you part of the planning of why there -- why or whether there should be such a meeting? 9 THE WITNESS: 10 11 1849 THE COURT: Yes. So, what did you understand the purpose of the meeting to be? 12 THE WITNESS: The purpose of the meeting was for Paul 13 to talk to Mr. Craig in relation to some of the issues that had 14 come up that were raised by Mr. Hawker with respect to PR 15 specifically, and then also some of the content of the Report. 16 17 THE COURT: All right. I don't think we can talk more about the meeting -- 18 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 19 THE COURT: 20 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: -- that he didn't attend. 21 BY MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 22 Q. 23 All right. No. I do not intend to. So, let's take a look at the agenda here. And what is Point Number 1? 24 to? 25 A. Okay. What does that relate Point Number 1 is kind of an overall update on the status Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 51 of 285 1850 1 of the actual report that was being prepared by Skadden. 2 Q. How about Point Number 2? 3 A. Point 2 was something that Mr. Hawker prepared. 4 called a -- just a message review. 5 documents that went to explain to people externally what the 6 Report is about and what the conclusions were. 7 Q. How about Point Number 3? 8 A. Three was the PR plan, and that related to specific roles 9 of different parties. It was It was a series of 10 Q. And as we look at Point B, what parties does that relate 11 to? 12 A. It relates to Skadden and Mr. Craig's roles. 13 Q. So what does that mean, when we see this in this -- when we 14 see this in the agenda as "PR Plan B, SKA/GC role"? 15 A. 16 to refine and kind of nail down a number of the actions item in 17 the Report. 18 specifically ask, you know, Mr. Craig what he was going to be 19 doing with respect to both the PR and GR portions of the Report 20 rollout. 21 Q. So, as we got closer to the rollout of the Report, we had And so part of the purpose of the meeting was to And if we could go a little further down. 22 Points 4 and 5. And when it reads "Ukraine activity," what does that 23 relate to? 24 A. 25 internally from Ukraine, in terms of all the players that were So, the Ukraine activity was what was going to happen Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 52 of 285 1851 1 involved and what they would be doing in relation to the Report 2 rollout. 3 Q. And specifically -- now, let's talk about 5 and 5.B. 4 What does that relate to? 5 A. 5.B relates to the role that we were going to conduct with 6 respect to, kind of, the other Western groups. 7 international plan that was a component of the overall 8 strategy. 9 Q. An And if we could move down to Point 6. 10 Just generally, when it says "Skadden Arps reaction," 11 what does that relate to? 12 A. 13 respect to Skadden's contract with the Ministry of Justice, and 14 then specifically on the independence of the Report and how it 15 was going to be viewed by the international community. So there were a number of issues that had come up with 16 So part of the action items that Jonathan prepared -- 17 or, excuse me -- some of the documents he prepared were kind 18 of -- just kind of Q&A, questions and answers, of if certain 19 things came up, how would any of us respond to those questions. 20 Q. And where it says in 6.B "fees," what does that relate to? 21 A. Yes. 22 that the government was looking at contracting with Skadden. 23 It had a procurement process that it had to abide by. 24 way to not address that, they lowered the Skadden fees 25 considerably early on, and there were issues with respect to There was an issue early on with respect to the way And as a Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 53 of 285 1 external parties that thought the fees were too low. 2 that became a talking point -- 3 MS. JUNGHANS: 4 THE COURT: 1852 And, so, Objection. There's been a lot of testimony about 5 this already and documents about this. 6 issue was, and he's saying the issue was that external people 7 were complaining about it. 8 think he can -- 9 10 MS. JUNGHANS: He asked him what the I think he can say that. I don't Well, Your Honor, I think he's just citing an awful lot of information. 11 THE COURT: All right. 12 (Bench discussion:) 13 MS. JUNGHANS: Let's talk at the bench. He said -- he just began to say, 14 "External parties thought." 15 interrupt, but he's recounting everybody's opinions, everybody 16 else's views. 17 He's -- I'm trying not to And I don't think he should be doing this. THE COURT: He's saying this is an issue, this is an 18 issue because external parties were complaining about it and 19 being public about the complaints about it, all of which is 20 already in the record in great detail, and which Skadden 21 witnesses have testified about. 22 MS. JUNGHANS: Well, actually, they haven't; they've 23 just read a bunch of documents. 24 THE COURT: 25 No. didn't just read documents. It came up with Mr. Haskell. It's come up. He It's out there. I Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 54 of 285 1853 1 don't think -- I think it was just about -- the end of the 2 point was that there were issues where people externally had 3 expressed concerns about the fees. 4 evidence. 5 Those documents are in And all he can say is, We were figuring out how we 6 were going to address the issue, and I don't think that's 7 hearsay. 8 fact that people were talking, and that they had to figure out 9 what they were going to do about it. 10 11 It doesn't get to the truth of the matter. MS. JUNGHANS: It's a Well, if he wants to say it that way -- 12 THE COURT: 13 MS. JUNGHANS: 14 hearing it that way. 15 THE COURT: That's what he said. I'm sorry, Your Honor. All right. I'm not I heard it that way. Well, I 16 don't think he -- he wasn't speaking for the truth of what 17 Mr. Vlasenko complained about. 18 complained. 19 MS. JUNGHANS: He just said people had Right. But then he's saying, you 20 know, decisions were made to structure the arrangement in a 21 certain way, decisions that he didn't make, that, apparently, 22 he's trying to convey what other people wanted to do and the 23 purpose for what they wanted to do it. 24 25 THE COURT: Where it's set up, where we were at, they were dealing with this issue. So, I think we can -- I mean, Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 55 of 285 1854 1 again, The dispute about the size and the nature of the fees 2 was something that you wanted to discuss at the meeting? 3 can ask that leading question, and then we can go on. 4 MS. JUNGHANS: 5 THE COURT: 6 (Open court:) Very well. He Thank you. All right. 7 BY MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 8 Q. 9 perceived or talked about, was that one of the issues that was Mr. Gates, was the issue of Skadden fees and how was that 10 planned to be discussed at the Harvard Club meeting? 11 A. It was. 12 Q. All right. 13 that was also sent to you by Mr. Hawker. 14 So let's move on to the master control grid MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: We can look at page 3 from 15 the exhibit, and the top of page 4 -- yes -- 6, 7, and 8. 16 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 17 Q. 18 team engagement with Bloomberg," and then below that, "GC/SKA," 19 what does that mean? 20 A. 21 different reporters, including Mr. Sanger and Bloomberg. 22 had put this, in this case, into the grid, that Mr. Craig and 23 Skadden would engage with them to, basically, do a kind of 24 pre-briefing on the Report. 25 Q. So, Mr. Gates, when we're looking at line 7, "2000 project So, at that time, we had looked at using a couple of We And was that one of the items that was discussed at the Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 56 of 285 1855 1 Harvard Club meeting? 2 A. It was. 3 Q. And what do you recall Mr. Craig saying at the Harvard Club 4 meeting? 5 A. 6 meeting, Mr. Craig had showed some concern about doing media 7 events. 8 looking at a very detailed plan, in terms of the exact number 9 of reporters and politicians that Mr. Craig might be doing Prior to the meeting, and part of the reason for the When we got to the meeting on the 23rd, we were 10 engagement with. 11 Q. 12 that issue at the meeting? 13 A. 14 David Sanger, but wanted to significantly reduce the amount of 15 contact he had with, primarily, media. 16 Q. 17 meeting, in terms of his willingness to help with the PR? Okay. And what do you recall the defendant saying about At that time, he was -- in the end, he was willing to do So what was your perception of the defendant at the 18 MS. JUNGHANS: 19 THE COURT: Objection. All right. 20 he was willing or not? 21 THE WITNESS: What did he say about whether He was willing on specific things, but 22 not nearly the number of things that we had hoped and planned 23 for. 24 BY MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 25 Q. Did you take some notes at the meeting? Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 57 of 285 1856 1 A. I did take notes. 2 Q. And what was your focus when you were taking notes at the 3 meeting? 4 A. 5 going to be complex, given the agenda. 6 sure that we tried to codify, as much as possible, both related 7 to the content of the Report and any action items that were 8 going to result from discussions on PR and other matters. 9 Q. 10 The -- we knew the meeting -- or, I knew the meeting was All right. Let's take a look at Government's Exhibit 258. It's already in evidence. 11 12 So, I wanted to make And then we can look first at the bottom part of the email. 13 What are we looking at there? 14 A. This is an email from Jonathan Hawker to me, requesting if 15 he could see the notes that I had taken at the meeting. 16 Q. And do you respond to Mr. Hawker? 17 A. I did. 18 Q. And what did you tell him? 19 A. I said, "Here you go. 20 but this is my shorthand." 21 Q. So let's take a look at page 2 of this exhibit. 22 And are these some of the notes that you took? 23 A. Yes, they are. 24 Q. Okay. 25 You might not understand all of it, Let's focus first on the top. THE COURT: Were you typing at the meeting or did you Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 58 of 285 1 1857 type up handwritten notes after the meeting? 2 THE WITNESS: I was typing at the meeting. 3 BY MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 4 Q. 5 "media strategy." And the top reads, "Tymoshenko Report." 6 And then it says, So, what is this section we're looking at here? 7 A. So, this specific section actually goes a little bit beyond 8 media. 9 capture as much action-oriented material about the PR plan, But, the idea was for Jonathan and I specifically to 10 because we were continuing to update it and we needed to refine 11 it. 12 times. 13 possible from Mr. Craig at the meeting. 14 Q. 15 "The single biggest issue for us," and what follows, who was 16 saying that? 17 A. 18 that -- or, you know, had made a comment that I -- I took notes 19 on right here. 20 Q. 21 witness issue"? 22 A. Mr. Craig, as well. 23 Q. How about the third line? 24 political' prosecution"? 25 A. And, again, even from this point it changed multiple But, we wanted to make sure that we captured as much as And when you say "from Mr. Craig" -- so, when you write So that piece, I believe that was Mr. Craig had made How about the second issue? "The other issue is the "This was not 'selective and/or I believe that was Mr. Craig, as well. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 59 of 285 1858 1 Q. And when it says "GC, he has a preamble that 'Ukraine did a 2 good job overall in the trial process,'" who was saying that? 3 A. That was Mr. Craig. 4 Q. Well, let me ask you, do you recall any of these that were 5 not Mr. Craig's? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Want you to focus in on the middle of the page? 8 A. Yeah. Let's see. 9 I'm sorry. I can't read. What exhibit is it? 10 Q. It says 258. 11 as well. 12 A. 13 these issues," I believe that was Mr. Manafort. 14 their criminal procedure code. 15 series of judicial reforms, and this was one of the items that 16 was discussed. 17 Q. Okay. 18 A. The next line, "We need a list of hypothetical Q&As," was 19 Mr. Hawker. 20 Q. And, I'm sorry. 21 A. Sorry. 22 major issues." 23 Q. The very next line after the one you were just reading? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. So that was Mr. Hawker? All right. You should have a hardcopy in front of you, The line with "The new CPC will fix a number of CPC related to They were going through a Which line is that? "We need a list of hypothetical Q&As to address Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 60 of 285 1 A. 1859 Mr. Hawker. 2 I'm not quite certain about the next line. I believe 3 that was Mr. Craig, but can't be certain. 4 Q. The one that days -- 5 A. Yeah. 6 the witness list." 7 Q. Okay. 8 A. "The key is to know the facts of the case and to 9 structure," again, that was my shorthand for things that 10 Mr. Craig was saying about the Report. 11 12 The next line, "She was behaving the way she did for political and PR purposes of Mr. Craig." 13 14 "Yulia Tymoshenko got two witnesses that were not on Same with the next line, "Opposition politicians have been on trial." 15 And then the next line, I believe, was Mr. Manafort. 16 "We need to use the facts of the Report to define and fill the 17 holes that Yulia Tymoshenko had created via a PR campaign." 18 Same with the next line, it was Mr. Manafort. "Not 19 using Ukraine law, but using Western thinking and standards 20 to -- to address the Report." 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. And then, I think it -- I believe it picks up back with 23 Mr. Craig. 24 case and is not required for a fair trial." 25 Q. "The absence of a jury trial does not diminish the Let's look at -- you have an item that says just "Issues." Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 61 of 285 1 What is -- at the bottom. 2 What is that about. What are those issues about? 3 A. 4 meeting, and things that needed to be fixed with the Report. 5 In one case, it was a translation. 6 review the four conclusions in the Report. 7 some ideas discussed. 8 terms of how the Report could, you know, cause a review of the 9 judge, the lawyer to file an application in the case. 10 Q. Yep. 1860 So these issues, again, were in the context of the And then we needed to And then there were One of them was looking at, you know, in Can we go to the next page? 11 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 12 Thank you. Zoom in. 13 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 14 Q. What are we looking at here under the title PR Items? 15 A. Yeah. 16 where we were able to refine the PR section of the Report and 17 how we talked about it. 18 action items that we took away from the meeting and began 19 inputting into both the Report and, you know, executing the 20 action items. 21 Q. So are these potential action items you are listing below? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. So the first line says, "Hawker, RG-AVZ to link up SA PR 24 person." 25 So this was a meeting -- at the point of the meeting So, out of that came a number of What does that mean? Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 62 of 285 Yep. 1861 1 A. One of the items that we had agreed to, as you can 2 see in the next line, was to put the Report online, on the 3 Skadden website. 4 Mr. van der Zwaan to link up with the designated Skadden Arps 5 PR communications director and coordinate when that report 6 would go up online. 7 Q. 8 the week." So, the task was for myself, Mr. Hawker, and In the next it says, "September 27, GC will be in Cairo for 9 What does that have to do with PR items? 10 A. Yeah. So, we had talked about the rollout of the Report, 11 and specifically focusing on debriefings that Mr. Craig would 12 give, both with some reporters and some politicians. 13 made note of that because we were trying to coordinate with his 14 travel schedule, to see if he could do some of those meetings 15 in Europe, on his way back from Cairo. 16 Q. 17 to possibly meet with Fule in transit to Europe." 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. What is that? 20 A. Yeah. 21 basically, processes requests to join the European Union. 22 one of the meetings that we wanted -- or, Mr. Manafort wanted 23 to set up for Mr. Craig was to have him meet and debrief 24 Mr. Fule. 25 transit, when Mr. Craig was coming back from Cairo. Well, let's go for a second to the last line. And I It says, "GC So, Stefan Fule was in charge of the committee that, An opportunity to do that was going to be in So, Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 63 of 285 1862 1 Q. And the line that says "KK to get Hawker the information on 2 the financing of SA by MOJ," what does that relate to? 3 A. 4 worked for Mr. Manafort. 5 issue. 6 dealing with the Ministry of Justice to try to fix the 7 contractual language with respect to Skadden and the contract 8 with the Ministry of Justice. 9 Q. That related to the fees? 10 A. It related to the fees, yes. 11 Q. And let me ask you -- Yeah. 12 So, "KK" refers to a colleague on the ground that And this was in relation to that fees KK was the point person on the ground in Ukraine MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: We can zoom out now. 13 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 14 Q. 15 journalist in this list. 16 A. Correct, not in the notes. 17 Q. And why not? 18 A. We had discussions. 19 Mr. Hawker was aware of Sanger. 20 into the notes specifically. 21 updated in the grid. 22 determine how much and to what extent Mr. Craig would be 23 willing to take on some of the roles that we had outlined. 24 Q. 25 those? There is no mention of either Sanger or any other It was -- I was aware of Sanger and There was no need to put it You know, we tend to keep it The key for us from that meeting was to And after the meeting, was Mr. Craig willing to do some of Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 64 of 285 1863 1 A. He was. 2 Q. And what was that? 3 A. Well, specifically, he continued to reach out to 4 Mr. Sanger. 5 Europe, but had significantly reduced the number of people that 6 we had wanted him to reach out to. 7 Q. 8 the Harvard Club meeting? 9 A. I do not. 10 Q. And this relates to something I asked you earlier. 11 after the Harvard Club meeting, were additional media plans 12 prepared? 13 A. There were. 14 Q. And was that for the same reasons you outlined previously? 15 A. Yes. 16 iterations, and until the Report was released, we just kept 17 making changes to it. 18 Q. 19 working to potentially help out with the Skadden release? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Who were those? 22 A. In the United States, it was Podesta and Mercury; and then 23 in Europe, it was a series of firms that we had hired. 24 Q. 25 evidence. And then he agreed to certain key politicians in Now, sir, do you know if Mr. Craig changed his mind after But, So, again, as we continued to go through different So, in addition to FTI, were other firms at this time Let's look at Government's Exhibit 281, already in Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 65 of 285 1 1864 What is this email, sir? 2 A. 3 firms specifically, and had sent this document to Mr. Hawker. 4 Q. 5 then attachments, "D.C. consultants plan 9-28-1012." 6 So, this is a document that I had requested of the two U.S. Okay. And the subject line says, "Matrix-actions." And What does that -- we see "D.C. consultants plan." 7 What does that relate to? 8 A. 9 directed to Mr. Manafort to reach out to both firms, ask them As we got closer to the release of the Report, I was 10 who they thought should get a copy of the Report, and 11 potentially be debriefed by, you know, somebody either at 12 Skadden or the government or somebody collectively involved in 13 the project. 14 So, it pertained specifically to, basically, the 15 relationships that the two firms in D.C. had, both in the PR 16 sphere and in the government relations sphere. 17 Q. And why did you send this to Mr. Hawker? 18 A. I sent it to Mr. Hawker because he was keeping the master 19 control grid. 20 information that we had collected from the consultants that was 21 going to go into the overall strategic plan. 22 Q. 23 So, this was just, again, kind of additional Can we then take a look at Page Number 2. And what are we looking at at the top, where it says, 24 "Engage Ukraine, project map, Washington, D.C. consultants"? 25 A. So, the Engage Ukraine was kind of a bigger banner for Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 66 of 285 1865 1 spearheading a project that would kind of target both U.S. 2 legislators and U.S. media with respect to Ukraine's overall 3 effort. 4 Report was a component of it. 5 Q. 6 Report," and then it has some action items. 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. It reads, "Finalize report release strategy for the U.S. 9 Identify key reporter and outlet that can 'leak' story, So it went beyond the Skadden Report, but the Skadden An there is an item line to the left that says, "Skadden Do you see? 10 possibly Bloomberg, but this needs to be vetted and ensure we 11 get a balanced piece." 12 What does that relate to? Yep. What does that mean? 13 A. So, at this point in the project, Mr. Manafort had 14 directed me and Mr. Hawker to keep the idea of potentially 15 using David Sanger off any material that was going back and 16 forth between the two D.C. firms. 17 finalized the plan yet. 18 didn't want it to leak out that we might -- 19 MS. JUNGHANS: 20 THE COURT: 21 We had not, you know, fully And just as a precaution, Mr. Manafort Objection. All right. He told you not to put the name? 22 THE WITNESS: 23 THE COURT: Correct. All right. 24 BY MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 25 Q. I just want to make sure we're clear. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 67 of 285 1 1866 So, without telling us what somebody else told you, 2 was there a reason that Sanger's name was not included here? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And who gave you that instruction? 5 A. Mr. Manafort. 6 MS. JUNGHANS: Objection. 7 THE COURT: 8 But, all right. 9 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: Well, he just -- it's repeated. Ask your next question. Yes, Your Honor. 10 BY MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 11 Q. 12 name first made it into any of the media plans? 13 A. 14 getting onto paper. 15 Q. You're not sure? 16 A. I'm not sure of the specific date. 17 Q. Do you know a woman by the name of Lucy-Claire Saunders? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Who is she? 20 A. Lucy-Claire Saunders was a -- or, is a -- was an associate 21 with one of the firms that we used, Mercury Consulting. 22 Q. 23 with? 24 A. Vin Weber. 25 Q. And did Ms. Saunders have any responsibility for the Now, do you recall, as you sit here today, when the Sanger I recall it was later in the game, in terms of actually Okay. And who was the principal at Mercury that you worked Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 68 of 285 1 Skadden Report? 2 A. 3 Mercury that would coordinate the Mercury activity for the 4 Skadden Report. 5 Q. 6 evidence. Yes. 1867 Ms. Saunders was tasked as the point person for And if we can look at Government's Exhibit 306, already in 7 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 8 top part of the document. 9 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: And if we can zoom in on the 10 Q. Do you recognize this document? 11 A. I do. 12 Q. What is it? 13 A. This is a document that Ms. Saunders prepared on behalf of 14 representing the European Centre for a Modern Ukraine, in terms 15 of the rollout of the Skadden Report and how strategically it 16 would work, in terms of the first article. 17 subsequent actions that we took. 18 Q. And is Sanger's name included here? 19 A. It is. 20 Q. As well as Mr. Hunt? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. As you sit here today, do you know whose idea it was to 23 suggest Al Hunt of Bloomberg? 24 A. I do. 25 Q. Who was it? And then the Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 69 of 285 1 A. It was Mr. Weber. 2 Q. All right. 3 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 4 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 5 Q. 1868 You can take that down. Let's move on to the Report release. 6 Do you recall, sitting here today, when was it that 7 you notified others about the release of the Report? 8 A. 9 thought there were going to be different releases. I think we notified them on multiple times because we But, 10 ultimately, it was the end of November, at which point we had 11 tentatively been given the green light to release in early 12 December. 13 Q. 14 already in evidence. Okay. 15 Can we take a look at Government's Exhibit 316, MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: And can we focus in on the 16 bottom part? 17 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 18 Q. Do you recognize that, sir? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And what is it? 21 A. This is an email from me to members of the PR team. 22 was to set up a conference call because we had been given the 23 green light to release the Report. 24 to, finally, take action. 25 Q. And it So, we were actually going And who gave you the green light to notify others that the Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 70 of 285 1 Report was coming? 2 A. Mr. Manafort did. 3 Q. And -- I'm sorry? 4 A. Mr. Manafort. 5 Q. Okay. 6 1869 And, did the media rollout, at this point, still rely 7 on seeding as a strategy? 8 A. It did. 9 Q. And at this point, who was the reporter that was going to 10 be used in the U.S. for that seeding strategy? 11 A. At this point, to my knowledge, it was Mr. Sanger. 12 Q. Let's take a look at Government's Exhibit 322. 13 Do you recognize 322? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And what is this email? 16 A. So, as we built out the plan, at the time of the release, 17 we had to get very specific. 18 Mr. Hawker sent to me in regards to what we considered Phase 19 One. 20 the reporter. 21 other journalists that we had identified. 22 Q. And when you say "Phase One," what does that mean? 23 A. Phase One, we believed that there were going to be multiple 24 phases to this project, to the PR plan. 25 was the immediate, first contact with that first reporter. So, this is an email that And that was kind of the immediate, first contact with And then from there, it would expand to the So Phase One, again, And Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 71 of 285 1870 1 then there was a tier of select reporters in key jurisdictions 2 that we identified that we wanted to make sure that we got to 3 very early in the process. 4 Q. If you look at the second page of this exhibit. 5 What are we looking at here? 6 A. So, this is that first waive of, Here are the key reporters 7 in each of the jurisdictions, and publications that we were 8 going to reach out to once the Report was launched. 9 Q. And for the United States, who's now listed as being that 10 reporter? 11 A. David Sanger. 12 Q. And if we go back to the email, that is as of which date? 13 A. The date is December 6. 14 Q. Let me ask you, sir, did the defendant have a role to play 15 in the media rollout plan that you were -- well, let me ask you 16 this first: 17 What were you charged with doing? 18 A. 19 then with some of my colleagues on the ground in Ukraine, in 20 terms of the other agencies. 21 with the two D.C. firms, Podesta and Mercury, that I had to 22 coordinate with as well. 23 Q. 24 to know whether the defendant himself had a role to play in the 25 media PR plan? What was your role now for the actual rollout? So, my role was to coordinate the activity between FTI and Okay. And then, also, it had to deal And as part of -- as part of your role, did you come Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 72 of 285 1 A. I did. 2 MS. JUNGHANS: 3 THE COURT: 4 1871 Objection. Well, did you know whether he had a role to play in the PR plan that you were coordinating? 5 THE WITNESS: 6 THE COURT: Yes. Ask your next question. 7 BY MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 8 Q. What was the role? 9 A. That role was to pre-brief the reporter from The New York 10 Times, David Sanger, on the Report, at which point it would be 11 an embargoed article. 12 of the gate for the project. 13 Q. All right. But, it would be the first article out And -- 14 THE COURT: What does "embargoed" mean? 15 THE WITNESS: Embargoed means that you give the 16 reporter material in advance of putting it out publicly, and 17 then you allow that reporter a period of time to write a story 18 before anybody else can write the story. 19 kind of first crack at writing that story. 20 BY MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 21 Q. 22 on-the-record interview by Mr. Craig to be this glowing 23 endorsement of Ukraine? 24 MS. JUNGHANS: 25 THE COURT: All right. So, it gives them And, Mr. Gates, did you expect the Objection. Overruled. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 73 of 285 1872 1 A. No, we didn't, actually. 2 BY MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 3 Q. Why? 4 A. Mr. Craig made very clear that, you know, he didn't know 5 how David Sanger might write the Report. 6 reporter, he described. 7 going to get a positive report, but we would hopefully get a 8 neutral report. 9 Times and Mr. Sanger, it was worth the risk to look at using a Why not? He was a tough It didn't necessarily mean we were But, given the credibility of The New York 10 credible reporter like that. 11 Q. 12 opposed to the idea of releasing the Report? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And why was that? 15 A. One of the -- And were some of your consultants, to your knowledge, 16 MS. JUNGHANS: Objection. 17 THE COURT: 18 Approach the bench. 19 (Bench discussion:) 20 THE COURT: All right. Okay. I think he can say whether anyone 21 objected to the release. 22 statement of fact, that's a statement of an opinion, "I 23 object." 24 25 If they objected to him, that's not a So, if he has personal knowledge that anyone didn't think it should be released, why can't he say that? Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 74 of 285 1 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 1873 And, Your Honor, and to add 2 to this, part of the reason I'm asking this question is, the 3 defense has made it abundantly clear that they intended to ask 4 Mr. Gates about the fact that others at Mercury and/or Podesta 5 had opposed the public relations report because, according to 6 them, it was such a glowing endorsement of the pro-Tymoshenko 7 camp. 8 9 10 And, so, I'm getting out the fact that he knew about that and, still, the decision went forward to release the Report. 11 MS. JUNGHANS: 12 THE COURT: 13 That's true. But when I tried to -- But the decision to release the Report wasn't necessarily his decision to make, so -- 14 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 15 THE COURT: It was not. But -- So the question you asked initially was: 16 Did you -- did you know -- did you expect that the Sanger 17 article was going to be a glowing endorsement? 18 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 19 THE COURT: 20 21 Correct. And then the next question was: know whether any consultants objected to releasing the Report? And I think he can say whether he did or he didn't 22 and whether they did or they didn't. 23 opine as to their reasons because -- 24 25 Did you MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: ask about the reasons. I don't think he can Right. I'm not intending to Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 75 of 285 1 MS. JUNGHANS: 1874 Right, I agree that they can't. But, 2 when we tried to elicit testimony, even if there was objection, 3 we were precluded from offering it. 4 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 5 MS. JUNGHANS: 6 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 7 10 MS. JUNGHANS: That is not true. That is Well, then I will be able to explore with him, I assume, not only that they objected, but why they objected. 11 12 I don't think so. not correct. 8 9 That's not true. THE COURT: So you're going to ask for all the hearsay you just -- 13 MS. JUNGHANS: Well, I don't want to. But -- but, I 14 mean, I -- there's obviously an effort going on here to make 15 Mr. Gates's testimony as short and nondescriptive as possible. 16 17 THE COURT: There's nothing wrong with that. But, okay. 18 MS. JUNGHANS: 19 And I just think that, you know, if we're not going 20 to air these issues altogether, we shouldn't air them at all. 21 THE COURT: Well, that's neither here nor there. You have injected them into this trial, 22 in great detail. You've actually called your own witnesses 23 during the course of the government's case to make sure that 24 this issue got fully vetted. 25 wasn't a glowing endorsement of the Yanukovych regime and the So, the fact that the Report Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 76 of 285 1 1875 Tymoshenko trial is a significant -- 2 MS. JUNGHANS: 3 THE COURT: It is. -- part of your case. So, to say he 4 can't ask this question now, and perhaps taking the sting out 5 of what's coming, is a pretty legitimate thing to do. 6 MS. JUNGHANS: 7 THE COURT: Right. Right. And I think the question was -- and he 8 can bring it without saying what they said -- were you aware 9 that any consultants objected to the release of the Report at 10 all, and then go on to the next question. 11 MS. JUNGHANS: 12 (Open court:) All right. Thank you. 13 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 14 Q. 15 some of the consultants opposed to the release of the Skadden 16 report? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Were those opinions communicated to Mr. Manafort? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Was a decision made to go forward anyway? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Now, who, if anybody, was responsible for notifying 23 Mr. Craig that the Report had gotten a green light and was 24 about to be released? 25 A. Mr. Gates, without telling us why or what they said, were My recollection was Mr. Hawker. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 77 of 285 1876 1 Q. Do you know or do you remember if Mr. Hawker did that? 2 A. He did. 3 Q. How do you know that? 4 A. Because I was copied on an email that he sent. 5 Q. All right. 6 But, let me first ask you about Government's Exhibit 327, also 7 in evidence. 8 9 We're going to get to some of those emails. And what are we -- well, let's look at the bottom part first. 10 Is that an email from you on December the 10th? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. The subject reads what? 13 A. "Master grid." 14 Q. What is this document that is attached to this email as 15 master grid? 16 A. 17 the document that we continued to refine over many months. 18 this was the final grid prior to release date that we then 19 circulated to some of our other PR consultants. 20 Q. 21 document? 22 A. I did. 23 Q. All right. 24 25 So, this is a document that Mr. Hawker had largely created, And did you, yourself, help to sort of craft or create this Let's first look at what's on the side. And what is it? A. And The right-hand side is a legend that we just prepared Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 78 of 285 1877 1 because we knew this grid was now going to be viewed by other 2 parties. 3 groups were responsible for which actions. 4 Q. 5 before the release? 6 A. I believe it is, yes. 7 Q. And that -- I mean, if you want to look at it, December the 8 10th is when you sent it? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Is that on or about -- 11 A. Yeah, that would be the last one. 12 Q. All right. So, it was just simply a way to explain to them which And this master control grid, is this sort of the last one 13 We can come out. And let me focus, now, your attention on lines -- oh, 14 I'm sorry -- starting on December the 12th, Wednesday, through 15 the end of the page. 16 What are we looking at here, this part of the 17 document? 18 A. 19 going to be Thursday morning. 20 pre-briefing of Mr. Sanger and the embargo of the article prior 21 to the Report actually being publicly released. 22 Q. 23 and GC," can you read what it says? 24 A. 25 So, this is -- announcement day is A Day. So, that was And then this reflects the And, so, when we look at the 1300 hours, when it says "FTI Yes. "The Report will be given to David Sanger of The New Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 79 of 285 1878 1 York Times, who will have an exclusive on the material for 24 2 hours." 3 Q. And if we go look at the next line, 1900. 4 What are the initials there? 5 A. "GC" is Greg Craig. 6 Q. Okay. 7 A. It says, "Greg Craig will give a on-recorder interview with 8 The New York Times." 9 Q. Is that a misspelling? 10 A. I think that was Mr. Hawker, yes. 11 Q. Okay. 12 And what does it say? And then what does it say under that? 13 A. "Sanger will write an article to be placed in The New York 14 Times that will be released Thursday morning, midnight." 15 Q. And then when was the release supposed to take place? 16 A. The release was supposed to take place at 7 a.m. 17 Q. So, above that, where we were reading, it says, "List to 18 include the following individuals: 19 Obama, Boehner, Reid," and then it lists those. 20 Barosso, Fule, Schultz, Did that happen? 21 A. To my knowledge, the -- not all of them did. 22 Q. Which actually happened, if you know? 23 A. The only one I'm aware is Mr. Fule. 24 Q. Okay. 25 President Obama at the time? Was somebody actually supposed to talk to Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 80 of 285 1 A. I think it was more of his staff. 2 directly. 3 Q. So not President Obama himself? 4 A. The representative of the Obama administration. 5 Q. Okay. 6 1879 I don't think it was him All right. MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: You can take that down. 7 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 8 Q. 9 identified in the media -- in the master control grid? All right. Did Mr. Craig carry on those tasks as 10 A. Some of them. 11 Q. Okay. 12 The New York Times? 13 A. Yes, that did occur. 14 Q. Had other tasks been assigned, according to the master 15 control grid, to Mr. Craig? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. What were those? 18 A. A good number of them were for Mr. Craig to pre-brief 19 politicians -- key politicians, primarily in Europe. 20 my knowledge, none of those occurred. 21 Q. 22 Mr. Craig related to those efforts? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Who was that? 25 A. Mr. van der Zwaan. Well, specifically as it relates to Mr. Sanger and And, to Now, did anybody from Skadden serve in as a stand-in for Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 81 of 285 1880 1 Q. And who did Mr. van der Zwaan talk to? 2 A. He talked to a gentleman, Aleksander Kaczynski, who is the 3 former president of Poland. 4 Q. And what was Mr. Kaczynski's role at the time? 5 A. At the time, he was a large proponent of Ukraine entering 6 into the European Union. 7 a, kind of, independent report on behalf of Europe to the 8 European Commission on Ukraine, and its ability to get into the 9 European Union. And he was also tasked with writing 10 Q. And why was it important to brief him about the contents of 11 the Skadden Report? 12 A. 13 politicians, maybe outside of Mr. Barosso, who was president at 14 the time, it was extremely important get to Mr. Kaczynski 15 because he had a significant role in discussing the future of 16 Ukraine in the European Union. 17 Q. 18 going to be doing this briefing of this high-ranking 19 politician? 20 A. Yes, he was. 21 Q. Let's take a look at Government's Exhibit 331, which is in 22 evidence. He played a key role. So, out of all the European Was Mr. Craig aware of the fact that Mr. van der Zwaan was 23 Let's start with your email. 24 First of all, this is an email from you? 25 A. It is. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 82 of 285 1881 1 Q. All right. 2 A. The date is December 11th. 3 Q. And who was this email to? 4 A. To Mr. Craig. 5 Q. So, let me ask you, first, were you in contact, from time 6 to time, with Mr. Craig during this media rollout plan? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. This is one of those examples? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. All right. 11 A. One of the issues that came up was to, obviously, pre-brief 12 some of the politicians. 13 not going to be engaging in that activity. 14 by Mr. Manafort to ask if Alex van der Zwaan could do the 15 briefing instead. 16 Q. And why is the subject "Update"? 17 A. It's an update because we're getting ready to release the 18 Report. 19 pulling away from briefing the politicians. 20 find kind of a stopgap to make sure that somebody from Skadden 21 was briefing key members of these delegations. 22 Q. 23 correctly. 24 25 What's the date? And what are you asking Mr. Craig here? Mr. Craig had indicated that he was So, I was requested And we knew, I think at this point, that Mr. Craig was And I'll read the last lines. But, we needed to Let me know if I read it "Ideally, we use Alex to do briefings, which would happen tomorrow in Warsaw. I wanted to run it by you in case Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 83 of 285 1 you were interested in handling personally, but I am 2 speculating that might not be the case. 3 we can proceed or if you would like to discuss further. 4 you." 5 1882 Please let me know if Thank And did Mr. Craig respond to your email? 6 A. He did. 7 Q. What did he say? 8 A. He said, "I cannot go to Poland tomorrow." 9 Q. And then you respond to him? 10 A. Yes. 11 the Ministry know, and tell them to work with Alex." 12 Q. 13 mean? 14 A. Alex van der Zwaan. 15 Q. And then you thanked him for it? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And did, in fact, Mr. van der Zwaan conduct the briefing, 18 as requested, in Warsaw? 19 A. He did. 20 Q. Now, were you, sir, responsible for sort of keeping tabs on 21 the progress of the media rollout plan? 22 A. I was. 23 Q. And why were you? 24 A. I was tasked with putting together kind of a summary of 25 events, primarily for Mr. Manafort, so that he could "Okay. I figured that might be the case. I will let When you say "and tell them to work with Alex," what do you Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 84 of 285 1883 1 communicate it to the client. 2 Q. 3 seeding with regards to Mr. Sanger of The New York Times? 4 A. 5 updated on that progress. 6 Q. 7 proceed with this piece, was there a backup plan in place? 8 A. Tentatively, yes. 9 Q. And what was that backup plan? 10 A. The backup plan was to use Bloomberg. 11 Q. Okay. 12 communications between Mr. Hawker and Mr. Craig related to the 13 seeding of Mr. Sanger? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Let's look at Government's Exhibit 360. 16 And how were you keeping tabs on what was going on with the With respect to Mr. Sanger, Mr. Hawker was keeping me Now, let me ask you, if Mr. Sanger had elected not to All right. THE COURT: Were you copied on some of the Mr. Campoamor-Sanchez, I was hoping that 17 we would finish the direct before we had a break, but, we're a 18 little past our usual break time. 19 approximately how much more direct do you have? 20 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: So, I wondered, About ten minutes. Maybe I 21 can cut it down a little more, but maybe it makes sense to take 22 a little break. 23 minutes left. 24 25 But, I really have between five and ten THE COURT: All right. Okay. The back row is definitely in a Let's keep -- well, the front row, too. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 85 of 285 1 All right. 1884 Well, since everybody seems to be 2 suggesting we complete the direct before the break, that's what 3 we'll do. 4 working for them personally, as you know, you can just raise 5 your hand, and I will try to take note of it. But, if a juror decides that that timing is not 6 You can proceed. 7 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 8 And I will try to be brief. 9 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 10 Q. 11 bottom two emails. 12 13 Thank you, Your Honor. All right. Let's look at 360. And if we look at the Below, we see the email from Mr. Craig to Mr. Hawker about electronic delivery. 14 Well, let me ask you, first, was Mr. Hawker actually 15 keeping you updated about what was happening with Mr. Sanger 16 and The New York Times? 17 A. He was. 18 Q. All right. 19 copied you, Re: 20 Greg, that's great, and I've shared with Rick." 21 And this is an email from Mr. Hawker, and he Electronic delivery. And it reads, "Thanks, Had Mr. Hawker actually shared that with you? 22 A. He did. 23 Q. The fact that there had been a delivery to Mr. Sanger? 24 A. Um-hum. 25 Q. You have to say Yes or No. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 86 of 285 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. All right. 3 1885 "We're both keeping our fingers crossed for David and 4 thank you for your efforts here, especially handling the 5 Report. 6 Deputy for ED, Rick has pointed out that if the meeting in 7 which this is discussed is at 11 a.m., it would leave us little 8 time to take the Report to your contact at the Post, or to 9 Al Hunt, if the Times decided to go with it." Although we understand that he needs to run it by the 10 Did you, in fact, point that out to Mr. Hawker at the 11 time? 12 A. I did. 13 Q. Were you concerned about that? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Why were you concerned? 16 A. Because, as always, you make great plans, but sometimes 17 those plans change. 18 we were going to be in a difficult position of trying to get 19 that initial seeded article out. 20 Q. And how would that impact you if that did not happen? 21 A. That would have stunned us, to say the least. 22 Q. And then he finishes. 23 If certain time metrics hadn't been met, "Did you get a view of how keen David was to run 24 this, and his confidence in getting to print, based on your 25 conversation? Rick is wondering whether we should wait until Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 87 of 285 1 David reports back before engaging with the Post. 2 your thoughts?" 3 1886 What are Now, what do you recall about potential engagement 4 with the Post? 5 A. 6 contact. 7 I don't even recall the name of it. 8 considered it. 9 consultant, so we had a little more background and information My recollection of that is that Mr. Craig had another It wasn't as significant as Mr. Sanger at the Times. We'd never really Mr. Hunt, however, came from another 10 on him as a backup. 11 Q. And the timing of this is on December 11th, 2012? 12 A. It is. 13 Q. And was that before the Report had been released by the 14 Ministry of Justice? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Do you also inform others -- or, were you keeping others 17 informed of the progress of the media rollout plan as it 18 related to what was going on with The New York Times? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Let's take a look at Government's Exhibit 361, also in 21 evidence. 22 23 24 25 If you can get some context, and you can look at, first, this email, second email from the top. It's an email from Mr. Sager to you and others -- or, to Mr. van der Zwaan, copying you and others; is that right? Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 88 of 285 1 A. That's correct. 2 Q. It says, "Warsaw." 3 1887 What does that relate to? 4 A. Warsaw was in reference to the trip Mr. van der Zwaan was 5 going to make to brief Mr. Kaczynski. 6 Q. 7 reporting that after speaking with Greg, he has approved the 8 briefing of politicians, but had not approved discussions by 9 him with the media; is that right? And there was a below email there from Mr. van der Zwaan, 10 A. That's correct. 11 Q. So what is Mr. Sager asking you here to do? 12 A. Mr. Sager is asking me if we can limit the kind of 13 pre-briefing by Mr. Craig to one specific reporter. 14 Q. And that is ANSA? 15 A. That is correct. 16 Q. And let's look at your response to the email at the top. 17 What do you respond? 18 A. I said that "We are waiting for Greg to finish dealing with 19 The New York Times right now, but we'll plan to have him do it 20 tomorrow. 21 time." 22 Q. 23 email or not? 24 A. I don't recall. 25 Q. But, what are you conveying here, that you were waiting for I will be sending him an email first thing Kyiv All right. Do you even know if you actually sent him an Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 89 of 285 1888 1 him to finish dealing with The New York Times? 2 A. 3 interview with Mr. Sanger was, in fact, going to happen and 4 could be completed, then we didn't want to jeopardize the rest 5 of the strategy. 6 see if that could be accomplished. 7 Q. Was that more important than the interview with the Times? 8 A. It was. 9 Q. Now, ultimately -- Yeah. 10 So, we, again, wanted to hold off. And if the So, we were willing to wait a little bit to MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: You can take that down. 11 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 12 Q. 13 before the Report was released by the Ministry of Justice? 14 A. Yes, it did. 15 Q. And did Mr. Craig actually provide an on-the-record 16 interview to The New York Times that appeared in that article? 17 A. He did. 18 Q. And had he been asked to do so on Ukraine's behalf? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Now, let's look at, finally, last exhibit, Government's 21 383. Ultimately, did The New York Times publish an article 22 Let's look at the email. 23 Now, you recognize this email, Mr. Gates? 24 A. I do. 25 Q. What is it? Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 90 of 285 1889 1 A. This is one of the email updates that I'm sending to 2 Mr. Manafort, as well as some other members of the PR team, to 3 keep them updated on the progress. 4 Q. What is the subject line? 5 A. The subject is, "Report coverage." 6 Q. Okay. 7 this report coverage update happening? 8 A. This was sent at -- 9 Q. Well, let's read your own email, the first line. 10 A. Oh, the first line. 11 And as of what time, according to your email, is "Here is an update as of 8 a.m. Ukraine time." 12 Q. Is that accurate, the time? 13 A. That is accurate, yes. 14 Q. And then you say, "Below are two articles thus far that 15 have been published from The New York Times and The Telegraph." 16 And you say, "Overall" -- well, let me ask you, 17 first, at this point, had the Ministry report been released? 18 A. No. 19 Q. So this is before the release of the Report by the Ukraine 20 Ministry? 21 A. That's correct. 22 Q. "Overall, the strategy of targeting a few select 23 journalists was absolutely the right one." 24 25 What strategy are you referring to? A. The strategy of seeding the Report with one journalist. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 91 of 285 1 Q. Then you go on. 2 "There are good quotes on selective prosecution in 3 the articles. 4 the New York Time article." 5 6 1890 My only disappointment is one of GC's quotes in And then you say, "But that was part of the strategy in using him via The New York Times." 7 What was the strategy of using Mr. Craig via The New 8 York Times? 9 A. What does that mean? It means that we knew the Report was independent. Greg was 10 going to, you know, make reference to that. But, more 11 importantly, we knew it may not necessarily be a positive 12 article, but we were willing to take the risk, given that, 13 again, Mr. Sanger was a very credible reporter. 14 Q. Then he goes on. 15 "He's much more direct and positive on the same 16 matter in The Telegraph article. We are getting ready to 17 release the MOJ statement and the Report. 18 coming." 19 A. Correct. 20 Q. All right. 21 updated of the progress of the seeding and then the articles 22 that followed? 23 A. I did. 24 Q. So what was your assessment of the success of the media 25 rollout plan, including the seeding of The New York Times? More coverage Now, did you, in fact, keep Manafort and others Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 92 of 285 1 A. 2 email, the article wasn't the greatest, but it, at least, was 3 viewed neutrally. 4 articles that came out, which were, in some cases, more 5 positive. 6 great. 7 Q. 8 rollout plan as to The New York Times? 9 So, the overall strategy worked. 1891 So, it did have an impact on some of the So, from our standpoint, the success of it was very And did Mr. Craig willingly participate in the media MS. JUNGHANS: 10 As you can see in my THE COURT: Objection. I think it's a little argumentative. 11 But, I think he's already established that. 12 Ask your next question. 13 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 14 THE WITNESS: 15 I'm sorry. 16 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 17 THE COURT: 18 Yes, Your Honor. Yes. No. No. If I sustain an objection, then you don't get to answer. 19 The question and the answer have been stricken. 20 THE WITNESS: 21 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 22 Q. 23 carry out as it related to The New York Times? 24 A. 25 Sorry. Did Mr. Craig carry out the role that he had promised to He did. MS. JUNGHANS: Objection. It's also argumentative. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 93 of 285 1 THE COURT: 2 Did Mr. Craig -- can you answer that question? 3 THE WITNESS: 4 THE COURT: 5 THE WITNESS: 6 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 7 No further questions. 8 THE COURT: 9 1892 I think he can ask the question. I can. All right. What's the answer? Yes, he did. All right. Thank you. We're going to take a break before we have cross-examination of this witness. So, I'm 10 going to ask you, please, to not discuss anything that's 11 happened this morning or anything that's happened so far in the 12 case. 13 The case has not yet been given to you to decide. You're excused. We'll try to resume again at 11:30. 14 Maybe 11:35 by the time we all gather. 15 notebooks on your chairs. You can leave your 16 (Whereupon the jury leaves the courtroom.) 17 THE COURT: 18 All right. we'll resume in ten minutes. 19 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 20 (Recess.) 21 THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: 22 23 24 25 Everyone is excused, and Thank you, Your Honor. Your Honor, recalling Case Number 19-125, United States of America v. Gregory B. Craig. THE COURT: All right. Can we proceed with cross-examination? MS. JUNGHANS: Yes, Your Honor. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 94 of 285 1 THE COURT: 2 (Whereupon the jury enters the courtroom.) 3 THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: 4 THE COURT: 5 Mr. Gates, I want to remind you that you're still 6 All right. Let's bring the jury in. All present. You can be seated. under oath. 7 Note that all of our jurors are back. I assume no 8 one has tried to discuss this case with you during your 9 break. 10 Ms. Junghans, you can proceed. 11 MS. JUNGHANS: 12 Thank you, Your Honor. CROSS-EXAMINATION 13 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 14 Q. 15 I am going to have some questions for you. Mr. Gates, I'm Paula Junghans. 16 MS. JUNGHANS: I represent Mr. Craig, and Let's put up Government Exhibit 625, 17 please. 18 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 19 Q. 20 on your direct examination, pursuant to which you appear in 21 court today -- or, part of -- it's part of why you're here. 22 23 24 25 1893 Mr. Gates, this is the plea agreement that you identified Now, Mr. Campoamor asked you about some of the items of it, but I want to ask you about some more. MS. JUNGHANS: John, would you pull up this first section, Charges and Statutory Penalties? Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 95 of 285 1 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 2 Q. 3 correct? 4 A. Yes, ma'am. 5 Q. Okay. 6 that's the tax evasion statue, right? 7 A. 8 tax returns. 9 Q. 1894 And this details the crimes to which you pled guilty, And 371, a conspiracy to violate 26 U.S.C. 7206(1), I don't believe it was tax evasion. It was filing false You're right, filing false tax returns. 10 And then 31 U.S.C. 5312 and 5322(b), that has to do 11 with failing to file reports of foreign bank accounts, right? 12 A. It does. 13 Q. And then 22 U.S.C. Section 612 and 618, that's FARA, right? 14 A. Yes, ma'am. 15 Q. So you pled guilty to conspiring to violate all of those 16 federal statutes? 17 A. I did. 18 Q. And you also pled guilty to one count of 1001, which is 19 making a false statement, right? 20 A. I did. 21 Q. And the false statement in this case was made to the Office 22 of Special Counsel, which was conducting an investigation? 23 A. That is correct. 24 Q. Now, the tax evasion offenses -- tax -- false tax return 25 conspiracy here and the foreign bank account conspiracy is a Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 96 of 285 1895 1 conspiracy that you participated in with Paul Manafort, right? 2 A. Yes, ma'am. 3 Q. He was the other coconspirator? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Were there any others? 6 A. No. 7 Q. And it was about filing false tax returns for Mr. Manafort? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And about both his and your obligations to file reports of 10 foreign bank accounts that were not filed? 11 A. That's correct. 12 Q. And that's because Mr. Manafort had bank accounts in a 13 number of countries around the world, right? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Okay. 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And those accounts were accounts that had -- even though 18 you didn't own the money in the account, you had the ability to 19 cause money to go out of the account on Mr. Manafort's 20 direction, right? 21 A. I did. 22 Q. In fact, sometimes not on Mr. Manafort's direction? 23 A. Correct. 24 Q. And those activities related to those accounts and to 25 Mr. Manafort's false tax returns occurred during the period Including a number of large accounts in Cyprus? Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 97 of 285 1896 1 that you were doing work in Ukraine, including the work you've 2 described involving Mr. Craig? 3 A. That's correct. 4 Q. Now, if you -- 5 6 MS. JUNGHANS: Section 4? 7 Okay. 8 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 9 Q. 10 Can you scroll down, John, to There. Now, you mentioned, in response to questions on direct, that you understood what your guidelines range was. 11 But, you understand that in a money case, the 12 guidelines are driven by the amount of money involved, right? 13 A. That's what I've learned, yes. 14 Q. Pardon? 15 A. That's what I learned through the process, yes. 16 Q. Right. 17 the amount of tax that should have been paid by the taxpayer in 18 question that was not paid, right? 19 A. Yes, to my understanding. 20 Q. And as it states here, in this case, the amount that you 21 helped Mr. Manafort hide from the Internal Revenue Service is 22 more than $9.5 million? 23 A. That's correct. 24 Q. And it also says that the source of income was from 25 criminal activity? And in a tax case particularly, they're driven by Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 98 of 285 1 A. The aggravating -- oh, yes. 2 Q. That caused your guideline level to go up, right? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Now, the FARA violations -- well, actually, let's turn 5 to -- 6 MS. JUNGHANS: 7 please? 8 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 9 Q. 1897 I see that, yes. Can we have up Government Exhibit 626, And when you enter into a plea agreement, there's a 10 companion document to it called the Statement of the Offense, 11 right? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And that actually sets out the facts. 14 of the statutes to which you're pleading guilty, but the 15 facts that support your guilty plea, that make it a crime, 16 correct? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Okay. 19 constitute all of the facts known to the parties, but they 20 demonstrate that sufficient facts exists to establish that the 21 crime was committed," right? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And what the Statement of the Offense sets forth -- Not just the list And in this case, as it says here, "The facts do not 24 MS. JUNGHANS: John, if you could go over to page -- 25 sorry -- page 3, the FARA scheme. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 99 of 285 1898 1 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 2 Q. 3 activities in the United States as an agent of a foreign 4 principal without registering, and that you and Mr. Manafort 5 engaged in the scheme to avoid registering for your company, 6 correct, and for yourselves? 7 A. Correct. 8 Q. And part of what you did here was to create this entity -- 9 -- is that you understood that it was illegal to engage in MS. JUNGHANS: If you scroll down to the lower part 10 of paragraph 7, please, John. 11 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 12 Q. 13 European Centre for a Modern Ukraine, and you acted as the 14 voice of -- and we'll call it ECFMU. 15 You created -- well, an entity was created called the You acted as its representative in dealing with 16 various parties, did you not? 17 A. 18 intermediary for the executive director of the entity, yes. 19 Q. 20 Kirsch, correct? 21 A. Ina Kirsch, yes. 22 Q. Ina Kirsch? 23 A. Ina, yes. 24 Q. And ECFMU was, in fact, an arm of the Ukraine government? 25 A. It was a arm of a specific member of the government. I was not an employee of the entity. But, I was a The executive director was a woman named Ina, or Ina He Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 100 of 285 1 served a role in the government. 2 Q. Pardon me? 3 A. He served a role inside the government. 4 direct arm of the entire government. 5 Q. 6 was not an independent, nonprofit organization, right? 7 A. Yes, that's correct. 8 Q. Okay. 9 retaining the firms that we've heard about, Podesta and 1899 It was not a But it was associated with the Ukrainian government. It And you assisted, on behalf of ECFMU, in 10 Mercury, right? 11 A. That is correct. 12 Q. And you represented to them that, in fact, ECFMU was an 13 independent, nonprofit entity, did you not? 14 A. That's correct. 15 Q. You lied to them? 16 A. I did. 17 Q. And eventually, it dawned on them that, in fact, it was a 18 governmental -- 19 20 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: Relevance. 21 22 23 24 25 Objection, Your Honor. Beyond the scope. THE COURT: Are we going to spend a lot more time on this? MS. JUNGHANS: Not too much time, Your Honor. believe it goes to the witness's -- well, not too much. THE COURT: All right. Go ahead. But I Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 101 of 285 1900 1 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 2 Q. 3 were, in fact, attempting to advance the interests of Ukraine? 4 A. 5 Podesta at the early stages of the relationship. 6 Q. 7 you -- there was an inquiry to you -- when I say "you," and 8 Mr. Manafort -- about the activities of ECFMU, right, by the 9 FARA Unit of the Department of Justice? 10 A. And so when you were dealing with Podesta and Mercury, you Yes. And that was codified in emails to Mercury and Now, when the time came -- eventually, the time came that Yes. 11 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: Relevance. 12 THE COURT: Can we approach the bench? 13 (Bench discussion:) 14 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 15 16 17 18 about. All right. He's admitted to what he pled And, so, you know, the purpose of the cross... THE COURT: I just heard somebody talking. I wasn't sure if someone was trying to get my attention. MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: Well, it's not relevant. 19 It's beyond the scope. 20 lawyers for folks that worked for the Centre here -- I really 21 don't know what the purpose of this line of questioning is. 22 And other than the fact that the MS. JUNGHANS: I have absolutely no -- I -- I'm not 23 playing to the audience, if that's what you're saying. 24 it goes to his credibility. 25 THE COURT: Okay. He lied to them. I think That goes to Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 102 of 285 1 credibility. 2 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 3 MS. JUNGHANS: 4 THE COURT: He alleged to be Mr. Manafort? MS. JUNGHANS: 8 THE COURT: No, it's alleged to be both of them. That they lied to their lawyer, who then -- 10 11 And then he lied to the FARA Unit. Is that alleged to be him, or is that 7 9 Right. lied to the lawyer who was representing him before the FARA. 5 6 1901 MS. JUNGHANS: He went to the FARA Unit and said they don't have to register because this isn't a Ukrainian entity. 12 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: If she wants to ask whether 13 he lied to a lawyer about FARA registration, that's one thing, 14 but that's not what I'm hearing with ECFMU questions. 15 16 MS. JUNGHANS: That was the subject matter of the lie. 17 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 18 THE COURT: But what does it matter -- He didn't know that Manafort -- Manafort 19 pled guilty to -- that was part of Manafort's Statement of 20 Offense. 21 Offense. 22 23 24 25 I'm not sure it was a part of his Statement of So, just remind me, he drafted the letters to the lawyer? MS. JUNGHANS: No. I think he participated, is my understanding, from reading his 302s. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 103 of 285 1 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 1902 He did not send a letter, is 2 my understanding. As the lawyer that was interfacing with FARA 3 asked him questions, they did not provide truthful answers, and 4 then he made those representations. 5 MS. JUNGHANS: 6 THE COURT: That would be called a lie. All right. Now, I will say that if 7 you're going to bring up this stuff, you need to read it 8 accurately. 9 said, in his Statement of Offense, the conspiracy that he Because there was a paragraph that came up that he 10 agreed that for FARA avoidance was that it was FARA avoidance 11 by DMI, Manafort, and others. 12 specifically involved causing others to avoid FARA 13 registration, and I don't know that you want to go down that 14 road too far. 15 16 17 MS. JUNGHANS: backwards. And I know that Manafort No, Your Honor. I'm not going I'm just going forward. MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: In fact, she wanted to make 18 sure I did not ask or get into comments about Mr. Craig's FARA 19 knowledge of registration, and I didn't. 20 MS. JUNGHANS: And I'm not asking about him. 21 asking about his truthfulness. 22 THE COURT: 23 All right. Well, I think it needs to be very focused. 24 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 25 (Open court:) I'm Yes. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 104 of 285 1903 1 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 2 Q. 3 from the FARA Unit of the Department of Justice, you did not 4 answer their inquiries truthfully; isn't that right? Mr. Gates, I was asking you about when you had an inquiry 5 THE COURT: When you say you, do you mean Davis 6 Manafort? 7 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 8 Q. You personally. 9 A. I personally answered truthfully. 10 Q. Davis Manafort did not? 11 A. Mr. Manafort did not. 12 Q. Well, he is Davis Manafort, isn't he? 13 A. He's the owner, yes. 14 Q. Okay. 15 Let's go on. 16 No, you personally. I don't know about Davis Manafort. And isn't it also true that -- well, never mind. Now, under this plea agreement -- the plea agreement 17 was in lieu of charges that had been previously brought against 18 you, correct? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. In other words, you were first indicted. 21 were indicted both in the District of Columbia and in Virginia, 22 right? 23 A. That is correct. 24 Q. Okay. 25 the plea agreement was substituted, correct? And, in fact, you And then those charges were dropped and what's in Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 105 of 285 1904 1 A. The charges in Virginia were dropped, correct. 2 Q. Yes. 3 dropped? 4 A. That is correct. 5 Q. And one of the things that was dropped was the charge of 6 money laundering? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And one of the things that was dropped was a claim by the 9 government for monetary forfeiture, correct? And, in fact, some of the charges in D.C. were 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Okay. 12 pay any kind of restitution, right? 13 A. As I understand, that's determined by the judge. 14 Q. Well, there's no -- there's no amount of restitution set 15 forth in the plea agreement, correct? 16 A. That is correct, to my understanding, yes. 17 Q. And now, you are required, under your agreement, as you've 18 already said, to meet with the government? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And you've done that more than 40 times since you started 21 this process? 22 A. I have. 23 Q. About lots and lots of different things? 24 A. Correct. 25 Q. Okay. And under this agreement, you have no obligation to One or two times about the matters that bring us Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 106 of 285 1 here today? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Okay. 4 government lawyers and agents? 5 A. I don't have the exact number. 6 Q. A lot? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Okay. 9 to provide all documents relative to the matters that the 1905 And you've been interviewed by more than 30 That sounds pretty good. And you were also required under your plea agreement 10 government's interested in, right? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. But you can't do that, can you -- you couldn't do that? 13 A. I'm not sure what you mean. 14 Q. Because you deleted a lot of materials that were on your 15 computers related to the work that you did in Ukraine, right? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Okay. 18 that you maintained is not complete? 19 A. 20 different types of email accounts. 21 Q. 22 so the government wouldn't have access to them; isn't that 23 right? 24 A. 25 referring -- And so that the record as to your own activities Correct. On an annual basis, I deleted documents from all Well, you deleted them, in part, in purpose -- on purpose, Not in relation to the FARA letter. I think you're Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 107 of 285 No. I'm not asking you about that. 1906 1 Q. I'm just asking you in 2 general, didn't you delete them so anybody wouldn't see what 3 you were doing? 4 A. 5 matter that I deleted documents for, yes. 6 Q. 7 promise that you will not be prosecuted for other crimes that 8 you've committed, correct? 9 A. That is correct. 10 Q. And you've committed quite a few, haven't you? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. You've committed tax evasion with respect to your own 13 taxes, in addition to helping Mr. Manafort conceal his tax 14 liabilities? 15 A. 16 false tax returns. 17 Q. There was an instance related to a completely separate All right. Now, you also get, under your plea agreement, a I don't believe it was ever tax evasion; it was filing Okay. 18 Well, you make a distinction. Filing a false tax return is to file a tax return 19 that has a statement on it -- a statement of material fact 20 that's not true, that the person knows is not true? 21 A. Okay. 22 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 23 THE COURT: 24 25 Objection. There are legal distinctions between the counts. MS. JUNGHANS: There are. And I'm trying -- if the Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 108 of 285 1 1907 witness wants to define them, I can do that. 2 THE COURT: Well, I think -- he's allowed to answer 3 your questions as he understands it. 4 quibble with him about matters of law, I don't think that he 5 should be testifying to matters of law or you should be 6 testifying to matters -- 7 8 MS. JUNGHANS: No. So, if you're going to Let me -- let me try again, Your Honor. 9 THE COURT: 10 All right. MS. JUNGHANS: Okay. 11 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 12 Q. 13 Mr. Manafort's taxes is a conspiracy to violate 7206(1) of 14 Title 26, which you've just pointed to, right? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. Okay. 19 respect to your own tax matters. 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. There were unpaid taxes on my tax returns, yes. 23 Q. Well, you're not saying simply that you filed tax returns 24 that showed an amount due that you didn't pay? 25 A. The conspiracy that you pled guilty to with respect to And that is the crime of filing a false tax return? Leaving that aside, turning to your own crimes with You have committed tax evasion, have you not? I didn't pay the full amount of taxes on my taxes owed. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 109 of 285 1 Q. Right. 2 either -- 3 A. That's correct. 4 Q. -- did you? 5 1908 But you didn't report all the income that you had For a number of years running? 6 A. I don't know the total number of years. But, yeah, there 7 was several occasions where I did not report the full amount of 8 taxes owed. 9 Q. Well, in -- for the tax year 2010, you omitted more than 10 half a million dollars in income, did you not? 11 A. I don't believe the number was that high. 12 Q. You don't? 13 Did you lie about the -- your control over foreign 14 bank accounts? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. For the year 2011, did you omit about 200-and-some-thousand 17 dollars in taxes? 18 A. I don't know the exact number. 19 Q. Have you attempted to figure it out? 20 A. No. 21 review some documents at different junctures, but I never owed 22 the total amount. 23 Early on, when I pled, we didn't figure it out. I did I did subsequently -- actually, before the plea, have 24 revised tax documents submitted to the IRS to fix any mistakes 25 that were made in the past. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 110 of 285 1 Q. 2 your prior -- 3 A. 1909 So that you would look good to the Court that you had fixed Do the right thing. 4 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: Objection. 5 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 6 Q. 7 did you not? 8 A. I did. 9 Q. And you also lied about your control over the bank accounts For the year 2011, you also took false expense deductions, 10 that you controlled? 11 A. That's correct. 12 Q. Okay. 13 well as the accounts that you managed for Mr. Manafort, right? 14 A. Correct. 15 Q. And in 2012, same thing, omitted income -- 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. -- lied about foreign bank accounts? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. In 2013, you omitted about $1 million in income? 20 A. I don't believe that's the correct number. 21 taxes, yes. 22 Q. 23 accounts? 24 A. Correct. 25 Q. 2016, you omitted $800,000 that you got from a company And you had foreign bank accounts for yourself, as But, I did omit And, again, you continued to lie about your foreign bank We did not file foreign bank accounts. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 111 of 285 1 called IDW? 2 A. 3 tax return was a good tax return. 4 properly. 5 Q. In 2016? 1910 No, I don't believe that money was -- the 2016 All right. It should have been filed Well, maybe check that over the break. 6 For all the tax returns that you just described that 7 were false, you lied to the preparer who put them together for 8 you? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And you lied to the government of Cyprus to avoid tax on 11 accounts that you had there? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And to conceal the fact that you had taken money out of 14 those accounts? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And, in fact, you took money from Mr. Manafort himself? 17 A. That's correct. 18 Q. So that you were able to write checks on or arrange wire 19 transfers out of the accounts that Mr. Manafort had in Cyprus, 20 and you just helped yourself from time to time without telling 21 him? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And you didn't pay tax on that money either? 24 A. Correct. 25 Q. And all of that has been forgiven as part of your plea Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 112 of 285 1911 1 agreement, at least from a criminal perspective, right? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And you've lied to the SEC in an insider trading inquiry? 4 A. No, that's not correct. 5 Q. You didn't fail to tell the SEC, when you were being asked 6 about Equifax's -- Equifax's acquisition of this company called 7 IDW, that you had tipped your father and brother when they 8 asked you? 9 A. No. 10 Q. You lied to banks to borrow money for yourself? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And, in fact, you had Mr. Manafort sign a letter so that 13 you could give it to Morgan Stanley, claiming that you had more 14 income than you had so you could get a loan from Morgan 15 Stanley? 16 A. Correct. 17 Q. And you altered other kinds of documents to give to the 18 banks to get those loans? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. You lied to Visa so you could get a higher grade credit 21 card? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. You lied to the government of Ukraine, your own client, 24 about the amounts that Davis Manafort paid to employees in the 25 Ukraine? Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 113 of 285 I -- you have to be more specific. 1912 1 A. I don't know what 2 you're talking about. 3 Q. 4 date you've been interviewed by various federal agents. 5 do you remember being interviewed on February 12th, 2018, by 6 Mr. Weissmann, Mr. Andres, and others? 7 A. 8 specifically there, but I'll take your word for it. 9 Q. Do you remember -- I know you can't possibly remember every There were interviews. And I apologize. But, I don't know if they were I think I have the wrong date. So, let 10 me -- let me verify that, and I'll come back. 11 A. Okay. 12 Q. Pardon me? 13 A. I thought you were correct, but since you said you weren't 14 correct, I said I won't take your word for it. 15 Q. 16 Ukraine or not? 17 A. 18 Ukraine, specific individuals. 19 statement, I'm not clear on what you're trying to ask. I won't take your word for it. I'm sorry, I didn't hear what you said. Well, sir, you're the one who knows whether you lied to Well, I never had any interaction with the government of 20 THE COURT: 21 MS. JUNGHANS: 22 THE COURT: 23 MS. JUNGHANS: 24 25 So when you're making that I think you're arguing with him now. I'm trying not to, Your Honor. All right. I would like to come back to it, actually -THE COURT: All right. You may. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 114 of 285 1 MS. JUNGHANS: 2 THE COURT: 3 1913 -- when I check the document. Well, ask your next question rather than making comments. 4 MS. JUNGHANS: Okay. 5 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 6 Q. 7 company called Pericles? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. To conceal Mr. Manafort's control over bank accounts in Did you lie in the deposition about Black Sea Cable and a 10 Cyprus? 11 A. That is correct. 12 Q. You did. 13 Now, after you left the -- after Davis Manafort 14 folded -- for want of a better term -- what did you do after 15 that? 16 A. 17 Donald J. Trump for President campaign. 18 Q. And Mr. Manafort was campaign manager for a period of time? 19 A. He was. 20 Q. And you worked in the campaign also, under Mr. Manafort's 21 direction? 22 A. I did. 23 Q. Okay. 24 expenses to be reimbursed by the Trump campaign to which you 25 were not entitled? The next role I served was under Mr. Manafort at the And during that period of time, did you submit Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 115 of 285 1 A. For the Trump campaign? 2 Q. To the Inaugural Committee? 3 A. No. 4 Q. To any organization associated with the campaign? 5 A. No. 6 Q. Now -- all right. 7 me ask you one more question. 8 9 1914 No, I don't recall that I did. Let's talk about -- well, actually, let You said that you had filed amended tax returns right around the time you entered your guilty plea? 10 A. That's correct. 11 Q. Have you paid the taxes associated with them? 12 A. Some, not all. 13 Q. How much do you owe? 14 A. At this time, I -- 15 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 16 THE COURT: Objection. Sustained. 17 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 18 Q. 19 were talking about this morning on direct, when the Skadden 20 project got off -- the Skadden Report project got off the 21 ground. Now, let's go back to the period of time when -- that you 22 I believe you said that "We hired Skadden," correct? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Who's "we"? 25 A. Davis Manafort. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 116 of 285 1915 1 Q. Well, actually, the Ministry of Justice engaged Skadden, 2 correct? 3 A. On an official basis, yes. 4 Q. Are you saying that unofficially Skadden was working for 5 Davis Manafort? 6 A. 7 asked the question about what the first task was by 8 Mr. Manafort, it was to wire Skadden money. 9 time he explained to me how -- No, not working for Davis Manafort. Again, when I was At that point in 10 Q. No, I'm not asking you that. 11 A. Okay. 12 Q. I'm just asking you, Skadden was engaged by the Ministry of 13 Ukraine -- the Ministry of Justice of Ukraine; is that correct? 14 A. Yes, that is correct. 15 Q. And you were separately engaged by the government of 16 Ukraine? 17 A. Actually, it's the Party of Regions, but that's correct. 18 Q. The Party of Regions? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And that's a political party that Mr. Yanukovych headed, 21 correct? 22 A. That is correct. 23 Q. The fellow who you had helped to get him elected? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. So, Skadden was not Davis Manafort's client? Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 117 of 285 1916 1 A. That is correct. 2 Q. Or, put it the other way around, David Manafort was not 3 Skadden's client. 4 Ukraine? 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. The same with respect to FTI, correct? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. I believe you also said, "We hired FTI." 9 Skadden's client was the Ministry of But, in fact, the Ministry of Justice hired FTI? 10 A. The Ministry of Justice hired FTI at a later point. 11 paid FTI through proceeds from Mr. Manafort. 12 Q. Okay. 13 A. Correct. 14 Q. Now, let's look at Government Exhibit 166, which you were 15 asked about on direct. 16 We And FTI didn't get paid everything? And you said, I believe, that in the very beginning 17 of this, while the Report was still in process, you began to 18 think about media activities related to the Report? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And that you sent this email to a bunch of people 21 soliciting names of -- 22 MS. JUNGHANS: 23 John, after "Team." 24 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 25 Q. If you go to the first line, please, "I need you to identify a list with media, GR's government Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 118 of 285 1917 1 relations," right? 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. "And third-party contacts that we will need to engage with 4 the SA firm"? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Now, the first person on this email is Ina Kirsch? 7 A. That's correct. 8 Q. That's the person you've already mentioned is related to 9 ECFMU? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Tell us, again, who all these other people are. 12 A. They are a series of consultants from firms, both in Europe 13 and the United States, that we hired. 14 Q. You hired -- 15 A. That the -- in part, the ECFMU hired. 16 Q. Well, you, acting on behalf of the ECFMU, put these people 17 together, right? 18 A. Correct. 19 Q. And how many firms -- I mean, there's a number of 20 individuals here, but how many firms does this represent? 21 A. 22 United States, in total. 23 Q. So the two in the United States were Podesta and Mercury? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. And the four -- the other two in Europe were I believe there were four firms in Europe and two in the Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 119 of 285 1918 1 FleishmanHillard and Burson-Marsteller? 2 A. 3 France and one in Germany. 4 Q. So you had six firms altogether? 5 A. I believe so, yes. 6 Q. Now, you didn't disclose to Mr. Craig that you had hired 7 any of these people, right? 8 A. 9 the Skadden Report -- or, that was not the impetus for hiring FleishmanHillard, Burson-Marsteller. Correct. There was one in These firms were not hired in conjunction with 10 them. 11 Q. 12 that we will need to engage the SA firm." Well, you say in the first -- the second line, "Contacts 13 That's Skadden, right? 14 A. Yeah. Because the Skadden Report was a component of a 15 greater plan called Engage Ukraine, which I mentioned earlier. 16 So, this is just one facet of it. 17 Q. 18 engaged six PR firms to do work related to the work that 19 Skadden was doing? 20 A. Correct. 21 Q. And when you -- did you get -- did you get responses to 22 this? 23 A. Yes, I did. 24 Q. Okay. 25 With, particularly, with Mr. Craig? Well, nevertheless, you didn't tell Skadden that you had Did you get names? And you didn't share those with Skadden either? Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 120 of 285 1 A. 2 and Mr. van der Zwaan. 3 Q. 4 Mr. Craig directly until September, right? 5 A. 6 generally done through Mr. Hawker. 7 Q. 8 at -- 1919 They were in the media matrix that we provided to Mr. Craig Well, actually, you didn't provide the media matrix to I never provided the media matrix directly. Right. It was Now, in -- when you -- you got this -- let's look 9 MS. JUNGHANS: 10 Defendant's Exhibit 77? 11 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 12 Q. 13 prefer to look at the exhibits in hardcopy, you should be able 14 to find it. 15 A. Okay. 16 Q. Now, this is an email from yourself. 17 top -- oh, I'm sorry. 18 A. Okay. 19 Q. This is from yourself to Jon Aarons from Jonathan Hawker, 20 FTI. 21 Can we have up, please, Exhibit 77, And, sir, there's a binder in front of you. If you'd They're organized defense and government. If you look at the I'll wait until you have it. And it says the subject is "Asset tracing." Just so it's clear, what was that? 22 A. That was a project proposed by FTI to look at assets that 23 the previous government had either taken or confiscated. 24 as part of the new government coming in, it was an idea to find 25 out where those assets went. And Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 121 of 285 1 Q. Okay. 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. But, in spite of that, that heading sort of carrying 4 through here, the attachment here is referred do as the "SA 5 outreach list final, July 2, 2012." 6 1920 Which never went anywhere, right? Do you see that? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Okay. 9 the page marked 77-4. And if you turn to that document, which begins at It's got this enormous list of contacts. 10 And is this what you're referring to, contacts that 11 you had collected from the inquiry you had made of the six PR 12 firms? 13 A. Yes, this looks like it. 14 Q. Okay. 15 bottom. 16 And if you go to the last page here, 77-7, at the MS. JUNGHANS: If you could highlight, John, please, 17 the part that says, "Media." 18 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 19 Q. 20 The New York Times, right? 21 A. That's correct. 22 Q. And that name is Steven Lee Myers, right? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Where did that come from? 25 A. Mr. Hawker. The contact that is listed -- there is a contact listed at Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 122 of 285 1 Q. Okay. 2 A. No. 3 Q. And -- but, this is in -- let's see. 4 Not from Mr. Craig? This is July 10th. And I believe you told us on direct that around this 5 time you had already discussed with Mr. Craig David Sanger? 6 A. Correct, in broad terms. 7 Q. In broad terms. 8 make it onto the media list? 9 10 But not good enough terms that he would MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: A. Objection. Correct. 11 THE COURT: Overruled. 12 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 13 Q. So you didn't think it was serious? 14 A. No. 15 actually go through and identify. 16 here that are not as concrete either. 17 man. 18 Mr. Hawker in order to identify key reporters at certain 19 publications. 20 Q. 21 was being considered from The New York Times was 22 Steven Lee Myers? 23 A. We just hadn't gotten to a point in the media grid to There are other names in This was kind of a straw Meaning, it was an initial document put together by Okay. No. 24 25 1921 So, the written record is that the correspondent who That was a -MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: question. Object to the form of the Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 123 of 285 1 THE COURT: 2 MS. JUNGHANS: 3 Yeah. I don't think he said that. I apologize. Did I misspeak? I said, "The written record here" -- 5 THE COURT: 6 MS. JUNGHANS: 7 THE COURT: 8 MS. JUNGHANS: 9 THE COURT: That's the part that I think -"The written record" -- Steven Myers is listed here. Yes. Okay. 10 MS. JUNGHANS: 11 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: "The written record is that the" -Object to the form of the question. 13 MS. JUNGHANS: 14 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 15 What did I say? 4 12 1922 The written -Mischaracterizing the document. 16 MS. JUNGHANS: 17 THE COURT: 18 MS. JUNGHANS: It is a written record. It is a plan dated July 12th. Let me -- I think my question was 19 clear, but let me try again. 20 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 21 Q. 22 correspondent who was being considered was Steven Lee Myers, 23 correct? 24 A. 25 Mr. Hawker's -- he put that name in there, along with other What was put down in writing at this time, was that the It wasn't necessarily being considered. It was Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 124 of 285 1 names that were placeholders of key publications. 2 identified who specifically at those publications would be 3 selected. 4 Q. Okay. 5 We hadn't But the only writing we have that -MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 6 It mischaracterizes the record. 7 THE COURT: 8 1923 All right. Objection to the "writing." Let's talk about this writing. 9 MS. JUNGHANS: 10 THE COURT: 11 MS. JUNGHANS: 12 THE COURT: The writing. This writing? Yes, this writing. Okay. This writing. I think he's answered -- you've 13 asked and answered multiple times. 14 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 15 Q. 16 that the document list was created on July 2nd. 17 says that the correspondent from The New York Times who was 18 being considered was Steven Lee Myers. 19 A. Correct. 20 Q. And whoever else was in somebody's head, it was not reduced 21 to writing, correct, in this document? 22 A. Correct. 23 Q. Do you know of any other document issued at this time that 24 reflected that Greg Craig had suggested David Sanger? 25 A. This writing, as of July 10th -- and, actually, it says At the time of July 10th? This writing Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 125 of 285 1924 1 Q. Yes, sir. 2 A. No. 3 Q. Now, these plans and strategies and all that, as you said, 4 evolved over time, right? 5 A. That is correct. 6 Q. And there was a lot of work done on these things in 7 anticipation of the release of the Report, correct? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Okay. 10 And, in fact, if we go to -MS. JUNGHANS: Can we have up, please, Government 11 Exhibit 176? 12 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 13 Q. 14 related to Project Veritas, the communications strategy, 15 right? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And Veritas is -- actually, let's just look at -- well, 18 Veritas is the name that was given to trying to counter 19 Yulia Tymoshenko, right? 20 A. 21 and GR plan for the rollout of the Skadden Report. 22 Q. Now, this is from Mr. Aarons to you and some others Project Veritas was given as the name for the overall PR Well, if you look at page 1 of this document -- 23 MS. JUNGHANS: John, if you could go to the next 24 page. It's actually 2 of the PDF, and the paragraph that 25 begins, "We have called this Project Veritas." Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 126 of 285 1 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 2 Q. 3 prosecutions and the accused, collectively, as Veritas." 1925 It says, "We will refer in this document to the 4 The accused is Yulia Tymoshenko, is it not? 5 A. It is. 6 Q. Okay. 7 project was to not only talk about the Skadden Report, but to 8 counter Ms. Tymoshenko's interests? 9 A. What do you mean by "interests"? 10 Q. Well, you've said that there was a lot of controversy about 11 her situation in Ukraine, right? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And she claimed that she had been wrongfully prosecuted and 14 she was being wrongfully detained and there was political 15 persecution and all sorts of noise that she was making, right? 16 A. Correct. 17 Q. And the Yanukovych government wanted to counter her, to 18 fight back against her, correct? 19 A. 20 crimes that she had committed and the justification for the 21 trial, that's correct. 22 Q. 23 properly in going after her, correct? 24 A. 25 European Union. So is it not the case that the purpose of the They wanted to make sure that the record was clear on the Right. Yes. So they wanted to defend that they had acted Because it was a big part of their entry into the Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 127 of 285 Right. 1926 1 Q. And there were forces in the world who thought 2 that, in fact, prosecuting a prior -- a -- prosecuting the 3 previous prime minister of the country was a bad thing to do? 4 A. 5 "forces," but there were people specifically concerned about 6 the way that the trial had occurred, yes. 7 Q. 8 get out that the Ukrainian government hadn't done anything 9 wrong in going after her? There were individuals. Right. I don't know what you mean by And the Ukrainian government wanted the message to 10 A. That was the general intent, yes. 11 Q. Exactly. 12 finished, right? 13 A. Yes, it was. 14 Q. Okay. 15 draft of the Report at this time, correct? 16 A. I believe that's correct, yes. 17 Q. Okay. 18 A. Correct. 19 Q. But, nevertheless, the communications strategy was set 20 forth by Mr. Hawker to you, right? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Okay. 23 Now, this document was before the Report was And, so, neither you nor anybody else had seen a And didn't know what it was going to say? And if you look at page 6, at the top -MS. JUNGHANS: 24 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 25 Q. I'm sorry, John. Page 7 of the PDF. -- it says, "The Report will conclude that the trial was Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 128 of 285 1927 1 valid, the crime was committed, and the sentence was 2 appropriate." 3 A. Correct. 4 Q. You had no idea what the Report was going to conclude, did 5 you? 6 A. 7 eventually got the information. 8 first attempt at trying to establish the kinds of information 9 that would be necessary to show in the rollout of the Report. That's correct. 10 Q. 11 the trial was flawed. But, this is Mr. Hawker's Well, you could have said, the Report will conclude that 12 13 This was a placeholder for when we MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: Objection to the form of the question. 14 THE COURT: 15 MS. JUNGHANS: 16 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 17 Q. He didn't draft this. No. You agreed with it, though, right? 18 THE COURT: Agreed with the plan or the sentence? 19 MS. JUNGHANS: 20 THE COURT: 21 MS. JUNGHANS: No, this sentence. I think he has said what the sentence is. Right. Well, let me try again. 22 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 23 Q. This was Mr. Hawker's expression, right, of what might be? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. And I think he says in the earlier portion of it, "If given Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 129 of 285 1 1928 a free hand" -- look at page -- 2 MS. JUNGHANS: It's page 2 of the PDF, John, on -- 3 paragraph that says, "We have been asked." 4 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 5 Q. 6 Skadden publication if given a completely free hand," right? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And the person who asked him to do that was you? 9 A. At the direction of Mr. Manafort, yes. 10 Q. But it was you? 11 A. Well, it was asked -- it was requested for Mr. Hawker to 12 put together a full communications strategy, based on their 13 experience in other jurisdictions. 14 Q. 15 the government of Ukraine wanted its position to be expressed? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Okay. "We have been asked to explain how we would address the And you had been in communication with Mr. Hawker about how 18 19 So, when Mr. -- when Mr. Hawker wrote on -MS. JUNGHANS: Go back to page 7 of the PDF, please, John. 20 Yes. Thank you. 21 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 22 Q. 23 crime was committed, and the sentence was appropriate," that's 24 what you hoped the Report would conclude, too, right? 25 A. "The Report will conclude that the trial was valid, the Well, we believed at the time that the -- that the trial Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 130 of 285 1929 1 was appropriate, but we didn't have all the information. 2 we needed was the independence of a third-party report from a 3 prominent law firm in order to establish some of these, you 4 know, potential ideas. 5 Q. 6 conversation that you say you had with Mr. Craig about 7 David Sanger? 8 A. I don't recall specifically the date of the meeting. 9 Q. Where do you -- where did that conversation take place? 10 A. Yeah. 11 Q. In? 12 A. D.C. 13 Q. Was anybody else there? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Now, you kept working on this, right? 16 A. Working on what? 17 Q. The plan. 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. The communication strategy? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. And, again -- 22 All right. What That's correct. Now, at this point, had you had this This is now July 14th. I recall that conversation took place at his office. Sorry. Washington, D.C. It was myself, Mr. Manafort, and Mr. van der Zwaan. MS. JUNGHANS: 23 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 24 Q. 25 we just looked at. Let's go to Government Exhibit 189. So, this is now July 28th, 2012, couple weeks after the one Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 131 of 285 1 1930 And this is you sending to Mr. Aarons and Mr. Hawker 2 a revised media plan, right? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Now, it's the case, isn't it, that frequently they would 5 write things -- primarily Mr. Hawker would write things, but 6 then you would take the documents and revise them? 7 A. 8 add my comments, and then recirculate to Mr. Hawker. 9 Q. Yes. I would show them to Mr. Manafort, get his comments, Okay. And what you were trying to communicate to 10 Mr. Hawker is what you hoped the strategy would be and what you 11 hoped the Report would say? 12 A. 13 messaging. 14 you show me the content of it, then I could be more specific. 15 Q. 16 media plan. 17 We had, along the way, worked with Mr. Hawker to refine the I'm not sure what specific document this is. Okay. Well, let's do that. Let's look at the revised And let's look at page 1. And, in fact, if you look at the top of this, this is 18 formulated as from PJM -- that's Mr. Manafort, right? 19 A. Correct. 20 Q. -- to SL. 21 And that's Serhiy Lyovochkin, right? 22 A. It's actually Serhiy Lyovochkin. 23 Q. Lyovochkin. 24 25 If Okay. Thank you. And he was? A. He was, at the time, the president of Ukraine's chief of Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 132 of 285 1931 1 staff. 2 Q. 3 expected to go to the client? 4 A. 5 put together, based off of Mr. Hawker's media plan, but it was 6 a shortened version of that plan. 7 Q. Okay. Yes. Okay. And, so, this was something that you actually This is something Mr. Manafort had requested me to And if you look at page 3 of the PDF -- 8 MS. JUNGHANS: John, please. 9 And go down to the second bullet point. 10 Could you blow up the upper part? 11 Thank you. And go to the second bullet point. 12 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 13 Q. 14 valid, that crimes were committed by YT" -- that's 15 Yulia Tymoshenko, right? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. -- "but that some irregularities existed not in line with 18 Western jurisprudence," right? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Now, if you drop down to the bottom bullet point there. Again, it says, "The Report will conclude the trial was 21 It says, "SA" -- that's Skadden, right? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. -- "cannot proactively lead in communications, given their 24 restrictions by FARA registration and disclosure," correct? 25 A. Correct. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 133 of 285 1932 1 Q. Now, had you had this conversation that you said you had 2 with Mr. Craig about David Sanger before this? 3 A. What was the date of this report, again? 4 Q. July 28th. 5 A. Yes, I would have had that conversation before. 6 Q. So, is it your testimony that although Mr. Craig may have 7 mentioned David Sanger, he also said, "We are not going to 8 proactively lead in communications"? 9 10 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: Objection to the form of the question. 11 May we approach? 12 THE COURT: 13 (Bench discussion:) 14 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 15 But, two, you know, I stayed away, in part because of Yes. One, it's very argumentative. 16 the objections, about all the communications Mr. Manafort is 17 having with Mr. Craig. 18 the door to me getting a lot of those communications in, in 19 light of how the question is being presented. 20 THE COURT: And, you know, I believe she's opening All right. You have put a document up 21 there that has a sentence in it, and, so are you going to ask 22 him -- you didn't ask him why he wrote it or where he got that 23 information from. 24 25 MS. JUNGHANS: The question I just asked him was, "Did Mr. Craig also tell you, when he mentioned David Sanger, Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 134 of 285 1 that he couldn't be proactive in communications?" 2 I didn't ask -- 3 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 4 What she asked is, Despite the fact you claimed this, and then that. 5 That's what you asked. 6 THE COURT: 7 1933 All right. Mr. Craig said that to him? 8 MS. JUNGHANS: 9 THE COURT: Do you want to know if Is that your question? Yes. Okay. Yes. Well, ask him that question. You 10 are sort of linking things up with -- it's usually the preface 11 for the question I think is prompting the objections more than 12 the questions. 13 of the answer before that you're purporting to summarize, and 14 so that's why he's objecting. 15 16 17 They use your words, not necessarily the words MS. JUNGHANS: Okay. But, I'm asking only about his conversation he claims to have had -THE COURT: Okay. Well, then ask that. But, what 18 I'm saying is, when you lay your predicates and your 19 foundations for your questions that tell the story the way you 20 want to tell the story, if they don't align exactly with what's 21 been said before, he's going to object. 22 that can be avoided, if you just ask the second half of the 23 question after the comma. 24 MS. JUNGHANS: 25 (Open court:) Thank you. He has a point. And Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 135 of 285 1 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 2 Q. 3 point. 1934 Focusing your attention, again, sir, on that last bullet 4 Did Mr. Craig tell you that Skadden cannot 5 proactively lead in communications? 6 A. He did not tell me specifically; he told Mr. Hawker. 7 Q. Okay. And Mr. Hawker told you? 8 A. Yeah. Put it into the original memo. 9 Q. Okay. Now, then you go on and recite, down lower in the 10 page -- 11 MS. JUNGHANS: John, if you would just go down to 12 Item Number 6. 13 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 14 Q. 15 international journalists should be briefed in advance of the 16 publication of the Report, and formally contacted, etcetera, 17 right? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Now, you've said, I believe, that as of this time, 20 Mr. Craig had already told you that David Sanger would be the, 21 kind of, international journalist who should be briefed in 22 advance, right? 23 A. 24 journalist. 25 Q. There's this information about a small number of It was on the U.S. side. It wasn't an international Oh, you don't consider Mr. Sanger an international Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 136 of 285 1 journalist? 2 A. No. 3 Q. Okay. 1935 4 Now, if you go to the next page. 5 And there is a whole section here called Post Report 6 Release. 7 and interviews with key stakeholders, as listed on the 8 attachment." 9 A. I think the exact is, "He will need to do," not "will do." 10 Q. Okay. 11 committed to do? 12 A. 13 again, but we hadn't defined the plan with much specificity at 14 that time. 15 Q. 16 "Consideration should be given to him visiting Moscow, and that 17 he should do a roundtable in Berlin," etcetera, right? 18 A. Correct. 19 Q. So this was your wish list of what Mr. Craig would do? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. Correct. 23 Q. Now, if you look at the bottom of the page, in Item 18. 24 25 And the very first item is, "GC will do briefings So this was something you wanted but he had not Correct. Okay. He, at this stage, had agreed to help, generally, And then you go on lower on the -- in Item 11, None of which he had committed to do? The very last sentence says, "We have to be firm in the position that this report concludes that a crime was Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 137 of 285 1936 1 committed, and that the weight of evidence would have secured a 2 conviction under a Western-style system, irrespective of any 3 minor procedural issues." 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Now, did you have any understanding that the Report was 6 going to take a position as to whether a crime was committed? 7 A. 8 say. 9 didn't know what the conclusion was going to cite. At that time, we did not know what the Report was going to And, so, with specific reference to a crime committed, we 10 Q. But, you were drafting a memorandum to go to your client 11 that said, "We have to be firm in the position that the Report 12 concludes that a crime was committed." 13 A. 14 firm in the position. 15 again, an idea. 16 the Report. 17 conclusion of the Report would be. 18 Q. 19 say, We hope the Report will conclude. 20 A. Um-hum. 21 Q. It says, "We have to be firm in the position that the 22 Report concludes," present tense. The idea was that the government was going to need to be 25 This wasn't -- again, because we didn't have So, we were still waiting to see what the Well, I'm a little confused, Mr. Gates, because it doesn't 23 24 But, up until this point, this was, MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: Objection. Asked and answered. THE COURT: I think it has been asked and answered. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 138 of 285 1937 1 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 2 Q. 3 your client that the Report concludes something, and it hadn't 4 concluded anything at this point; isn't that right? 5 A. That is correct. 6 Q. Now -- Well, what I'm trying to get to, sir, is, you were telling 7 8 MS. JUNGHANS: tell me when you want me to stop for lunch. 9 THE COURT: I will. 10 MS. JUNGHANS: 11 THE COURT: 12 longer. 13 14 Your Honor, whenever you -- you can Okay. But, I think we should go a little bit Would you like to estimate how much more you have? MS. JUNGHANS: Oh, a while. Certainly not enough to be finished before lunch. 15 THE COURT: 16 But, in general, what are we talking about? 17 MS. JUNGHANS: 18 THE COURT: 19 Well, I predicted that. Your Honor, I'm guessing two hours. All right. Well, let's go for a little bit longer, since we've recently had a break. 20 MS. JUNGHANS: 21 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 22 Q. 23 Okay. Now, on August the 5th -MS. JUNGHANS: 24 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 25 Q. Let's have Government Exhibit 207. This is now August the 5th of 2012. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 139 of 285 1 1938 And at that point, did you expect that the release of 2 the Report was imminent? 3 A. 4 belief that the Report would be released, because the summer 5 had passed, and we were trying to get it out before summer. So, in August we -- yes. 6 Now, we were back working on the So, at this point in time, we were gearing up with 7 the belief that the Report would be released. 8 Q. 9 whether to release the Report lay with the client, correct? And the decision about when to release the Report or 10 A. To my understanding, yes. 11 Q. It certainly wasn't Mr. Craig's decision? 12 A. No. 13 Q. Or yours? 14 A. No. 15 Q. So -- but, while it was still out there, in the sense of 16 while it was unreleased, you all kept working away at refining 17 these plans, correct? 18 A. Correct. 19 Q. Okay. 20 called a draft plan of the Veritas master control plan. 21 And on August the 5th, Mr. Hawker sent you something Do you recall this? 22 A. I would have to look at the document. 23 Q. Okay. 24 25 MS. JUNGHANS: John. Let's turn to the first page of this, It's called master control grid. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 140 of 285 1 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 2 Q. Now, Mr. Hawker did a lot of these things, right? 3 A. He did. 4 Q. And sometimes you edited them and sometimes you just 5 reviewed them? 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. If you go to the next page of this one. 8 1939 It says, at the top, the first bullet point -- or, 9 the first item on the graph says -- and this is -- strike that. 10 This anticipates what's going to happen on the day of 11 the release. It purports to set out, hour by hour, what 12 everybody is going to do, correct? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Okay. 15 A. Correct. 16 Q. Okay. 17 is that drafts are going to be shared with Charlie." 18 A. Correct. 19 Q. Who's Charlie? 20 A. I don't recall who Charlie is. 21 Jonathan used for somebody, I don't recall, though. 22 Q. Okay. 23 A. Jonathan typically talked in code quite a bit. 24 were issues or areas where we weren't clear on who it might be, 25 that he would put just kind of a -- a name in there as a And whatever the release date might be? And it says, "The first thing that's going to happen It's a code name, I think, So why were you talking in code? When there Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 141 of 285 1 placeholder, similar to what he did in other versions. 2 Q. So if you scroll down to line 10. 3 "The plan anticipates that Charlie and GC" -- that's 4 Mr. Craig, right? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. -- "will discuss changes and sign off," correct? 7 A. Correct. 8 Q. And that "Mr. Craig will have a conference" -- the next 9 line. 10 "Mr. Craig will have a conference call" -- or, "that 11 there will be a conference call between FTI in Kyiv and 12 Mr. Craig to discuss the statement." 13 A. The Skadden statement, yes. 14 Q. Okay. 15 16 1940 Is that right? Turn to the next page, please. It anticipates, in line 24, that the judge is going to be sent on a foreign trip. 17 What does that mean? 18 A. I think that's in reference to the general prosecutor, 19 Mr. Pshonka, being -- he was planning to come over to the 20 United States. 21 Q. 22 strike that. Well, isn't it a fact that the -- well, the judge -- Mr. -- 23 Mr. Pshonka isn't a judge; he's the prosecutor, 24 right? 25 A. At the time. But, apparently, he was a judge prior to Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 142 of 285 1941 1 that. 2 Q. 3 trial being sent out of town so he wouldn't be available to 4 answer questions? 5 A. I don't know. 6 Q. Now, it also contemplates, on line 32, that there would be 7 meetings between Mr. Craig and Cox, Kwaniewski, and the 8 Ukrainian commissioner for human rights? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And if we go to the next page. This doesn't refer to the judge from the Yulia Tymoshenko 11 A number of items. Like, for example, in line 39, 12 Mr. Craig is going to do something. 13 going to provide counterpoints. In line 43, Mr. Craig is 14 And if you go to the next page -- 15 THE COURT: 16 Can we -- can we put a question mark somewhere? 17 MS. JUNGHANS: 18 THE COURT: I think he said yes. Those are on there? 19 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 20 Q. You agree? 21 A. These are on the grid, yes. 22 Q. Thank you, sir. 23 And if you go to the next page. 24 In lines 53 through 57, it sets out something of a 25 world tour for Mr. Craig, right? Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 143 of 285 1942 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Now, he hadn't, at this point, agreed to do any of this, 3 had he? 4 A. That is correct. 5 Q. In fact, this document was not shared with him, correct? 6 7 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: A. Objection. I did not share it with him. 8 Sorry. 9 THE COURT: 10 All right. THE WITNESS: 11 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 12 Q. Okay. 13 I don't. Do you know? I did not share it with him. Well, you sent it to -- if you go back to page 1. The people you sent it to were Jon Aarons, 14 John Hawker, and Alex van der Zwaan. 15 Greg Craig. 16 A. 17 email. 18 Q. 19 correct. 20 You did not send it to Actually, Jonathan Hawker sent this to me, based on the I'm sorry, sir. I'm looking at the wrong one. You are You are correct. This is just Jonathan Hawker to you? 21 A. Correct. 22 Q. So Jonathan Hawker, at least on the surface of this, did 23 not send it to Greg Craig? 24 A. To my knowledge. 25 Q. And you did not send it to Greg Craig? Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 144 of 285 1 A. I did not. 2 Q. Okay. 3 Now, let's go to Government Exhibit 220. 4 This is now August 24th, 2012. 1943 And if you look at 5 the bottom email, it's from yourself to Mr. Hawker and 6 Mr. Aarons at FTI. 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And you say, "It looks like we will be moving forward next 9 week. In the interim, I need you guys to think of a few 10 friendly reporters that we can outreach to when the Report is 11 made public." 12 Do you see that? 13 A. I do. 14 Q. Now, this is sometime after you've told us you already had 15 a conversation with Greg Craig identifying David Sanger? 16 A. Correct. 17 Q. Did you say -- well, you obviously did not say, Hey, guys, 18 we could use David Sanger? 19 A. 20 not saying it mentions David Sanger, but this was more of a 21 question, that we needed more reporters to solicit this to, 22 friendly reporters. 23 Q. 24 that Mr. Craig had identified David Sanger a month or two 25 before and -- did you ever tell him that? No. This actually alluded to additional reporters. I'm Did you ever, during this period of time, advise Mr. Hawker Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 145 of 285 1 A. 2 Mr. Sanger potentially being involved. 3 specifically when we had that conversation. 4 Q. 1944 To my recollection, Mr. Hawker was aware of Sanger -- Well, okay. 5 But, I don't know Because you said he was aware. But, are you saying you told him? 6 A. No, I did not tell him. 7 Q. So, how was he aware? 8 A. It was my understanding he was aware from Mr. Craig. 9 Q. You're saying Jonathan Hawker, you believe -- 10 THE COURT: Do you know how Mr. Hawker became aware? 11 THE WITNESS: 12 THE COURT: I do not. Okay. Next question. 13 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 14 Q. Okay. 15 A. That's correct. 16 Q. And you did not take any steps to include David Sanger in 17 the email to Jonathan Hawker? 18 A. Not in this specific email, no. 19 Q. Pardon me? 20 A. Not in this specific email that you're referencing here, 21 no. 22 Q. 23 98? 24 25 Right. You don't know? On the next -- can you turn to Defendant's Exhibit This is from Jon Aarons to you. I think -- well, if you look at the bottom of the page, it repeats or incorporates Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 146 of 285 1945 1 the email we were just discussing where you were asking for a 2 list of reporters. 3 And Mr. Aarons responds to you with a list he says 4 that he previously sent you, and there are reporters all 5 throughout Europe, right? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Okay. 8 United States? 9 A. Were you expecting to get, also, reporters in the I don't recall. I don't know if they left those off or -- 10 this was the list that they provided. 11 Q. Okay. 12 A. We weren't specific. 13 Q. But, if you look at what is attached here, is another 14 version of the communications strategy document. 15 Do you see that? 16 A. (No response.) 17 Q. And if you look at page -- it's -- well, look at page 5. 18 A. Is this exhibit 98? 19 Q. I'm sorry. 20 but it's page 7 of the PDF. 21 A. The PDF page is 98-7. It's page 5 of the memo, Okay. 22 MS. JUNGHANS: 23 page? 24 okay. 25 BY MS. JUNGHANS: John, could you go to the previous I don't know why mine are numbered differently. But -- Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 147 of 285 1946 1 Q. Item 2, still saying, "The Report will conclude that the 2 trial was valid, the crime was committed, and the sentence was 3 appropriate," right? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Now, by this time had you had any more insight into what 6 the Report said? 7 A. 8 content to it, but the conclusions had not been written yet. 9 So we still didn't have an understanding of what the So, there were -- the Report, as it was being drafted, had 10 conclusions might contain. But there were elements of the 11 Report -- I would have to go back. 12 had seen at least some of it. 13 Q. Did Mr. Craig give it to you? 14 A. He did not. 15 Q. In fact, he wouldn't give it to you, right? 16 A. It was my understanding that Mr. van der Zwaan had given it 17 to Mr. Hawker and copied me. 18 Report at that time, though. 19 Q. 20 Mr. Hawker to enter his hotel room in Kyiv and have 21 Mr. van der Zwaan leave a copy of the Report behind so that 22 Mr. Hawker could see it; isn't that right? 23 A. That's correct. 24 Q. And you got Alex van der Zwaan to do that, in spite of the 25 fact that Greg Craig had refused to disclose the Report to you I think at this time, we I had not seen a copy of the Well, in fact, Mr. van der Zwaan, at your request, allowed Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 148 of 285 1 1947 or to Mr. Hawker? 2 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: Objection to the form of the 3 question. 4 A. 5 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 6 Q. 7 Mr. Hawker? 8 A. To my knowledge, yes. 9 Q. Or to you? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And you were friendly with Alex van der Zwaan, were you 12 not? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. You socialized in Kyiv? 15 A. In London, Kyiv, Washington. 16 Q. You hung out? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. You went to parties and nightclubs -- or, dinners and 19 nightclubs together? 20 A. We went to dinners. 21 Q. And Mr. van der Zwaan, you understood, was Mr. Craig's 22 associate? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Subject to Mr. Craig's discretion? 25 A. Yes. Can you repeat the question, please? Mr. Craig had declined to disclose the Report to We socialized. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 149 of 285 1948 1 Q. But, nevertheless, you persuaded Mr. van der Zwaan to 2 disclose the Report to Mr. Hawker, against Mr. Craig's 3 instructions? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Did you offer him anything for that? 6 A. No. 7 Q. Well, around that time, you were trying to get Alex 8 van der Zwaan to come to work for Davis Manafort, were you not? 9 A. Well, Alex had expressed interest in looking at other 10 opportunities. 11 Davis Manafort. 12 the Skadden office in Eastern Europe. 13 indicated that he wanted to stay at Skadden long enough to make 14 partner before, you know, any decision was made. 15 Q. 16 your request -- or, he acted in response to your request, and 17 he contradicted Mr. Craig's instruction and gave the Report to 18 Mr. Hawker? 19 A. 20 continue with the outline until he had some information from 21 the Report. 22 Q. 23 24 25 Okay. Yes. One opportunity was potentially working for Another opportunity was looking at expanding So, at that time, he had And whatever -- for whatever reason, he accepted We had a situation where Mr. Hawker could not Mr. Manafort had asked me to -- I didn't ask you, sir, to tell us -THE COURT: Well, you strung together many statements, and I think he's responding to them. Go ahead. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 150 of 285 1 A. 2 the Report in advance, to have Jonathan write the matrix. 3 communicated that to Alex. 4 the Report was not ready. 1949 Mr. Manafort had asked me to see if we could get a copy of 5 I The initial response I got was, No, I went back to Alex to ask him if he could let 6 Jonathan at least see snippets of the Report, at which time, 7 then Mr. van der Zwaan arranged for Mr. Hawker to receive parts 8 of it. 9 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 10 Q. 11 doing that? 12 A. I did not. 13 Q. Now, so, after Mr. Hawker had seen the Report, that had 14 occurred prior to the exhibit we're looking at, August 24th, 15 right? 16 A. 17 18 And none of you, to your knowledge, told Mr. Craig you were I don't -MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: Objection to the form. I think misstates the evidence. 19 MS. JUNGHANS: 20 THE COURT: Let me -- All right. 21 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 22 Q. Do you know when it occurred? 23 A. I don't know when Mr. Hawker saw the Report. 24 multiple movements in terms of, we could see it, we couldn't 25 see it, the Report was ready, it wasn't ready. There were So I don't have Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 151 of 285 1 a specific date. 2 could -- 3 Q. Well, sir, I wasn't there. 4 A. Well, I wasn't there either. 1950 If you could tell me the date, then I 5 THE COURT: 6 THE WITNESS: 7 THE COURT: I mean, do you recall -- He doesn't know the date. Yeah. Ask your next question. 8 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 9 Q. Do you recall it being before the end of July? 10 A. I don't. 11 Q. So, if you look at this document that Mr. -- that FTI was 12 generating, it still said, "The Report will conclude that the 13 trial was valid, the crime was committed, and the sentence was 14 appropriate," right? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. So, either Mr. Hawker had seen the Report at this time and 17 knew that the Report did not conclude this -- that's one 18 possibility, right? 19 A. It could be a possibility, yes. 20 Q. -- or he had not seen the Report and was still hoping 21 that's what it would say? 22 A. 23 details from the Report. 24 And this was not the only instance where there were things in 25 this document that we put in that, yes, you could suggest we Keep in mind this was just a placeholder until we got So, this went on for quite some time. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 152 of 285 1951 1 were hoping for, but we didn't know the definitive answer. 2 until we got the Report, we couldn't fill in the details. 3 Q. And the placeholder was what you wanted the message to be? 4 A. That was certainly one of the messages, yes. 5 Q. Now, if you look at -- 6 7 MS. JUNGHANS: If you go to page 12 of the PDF, please, John. 8 9 And go -- actually, keep going to the next page. Page 12 of the PDF. Go to the prior page, please. 11 There you go. 12 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 13 Q. 14 listed for The New York Times is still Steven Lee Myers -- 15 A. Correct. 16 Q. -- right? So there's a list of reporters, and the reporter who's 17 Not David Sanger? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. By this time, do you think you had communicated to 20 Mr. Hawker that Greg Craig was suggesting Davis Sanger? 21 23 No. There's a list of reporters. 10 22 And MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: question. Objection to the form of the Misstates the facts in evidence. THE COURT: Well, do you know if you had given the 24 name David Sanger to Mr. Hawker by the time this report -- this 25 draft of the plan -- Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 153 of 285 1 THE WITNESS: 2 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 3 Q. Okay. THE COURT: 5 MS. JUNGHANS: Okay. THE COURT: 8 MS. JUNGHANS: 10 Why don't we approach the bench. No, Your Honor. I'll just go to the next question. 7 9 In August, I don't believe so. Mr. Craig had given it to you -- 4 6 1952 Okay. Okay. BY MS. JUNGHANS: Q. Now, go to Government Exhibit 232, please. 11 August -- no, strike that. 12 2012. 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. All right. That's September 12th, So, two weeks or so after what we just looked at? 15 Okay. And you say -- this is from you to Mr. Hawker and 16 Mr. Kilimnik, right? 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. -- "We're getting close to the release of the Report. 19 need to have the following prepared for me by 2 p.m." 20 We And the first item on your agenda was the headline -- 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. -- right? 23 Now, at this point, did you know -- excuse me -- did 24 you know how long the Report appeared it was going to be? 25 A. No, because the Report still wasn't finalized at this time. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 154 of 285 1 Q. 1953 Excuse me. 2 But, you knew it wasn't going to be ten pages? 3 A. Oh, no. We suspected it would be much longer. 4 Q. Hundreds of pages? 5 A. We didn't know the total number until the end. 6 Q. Okay. 7 because you knew that this dense report, when it came out, was 8 not likely to be read in its entirety by too many people, 9 right? Okay. But, the reason you wanted the headline was 10 A. Correct. 11 Q. And, in fact, even if there were news articles about the 12 Report, people might not read the whole article; they might 13 just read the headline? 14 A. Correct. 15 Q. That's part of what you think about in your business, 16 right? 17 A. That is correct. 18 Q. So you were -- the first thing on your agenda was, The 19 headline, let's get that -- 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. -- correct? 22 23 24 25 Okay. And then Number 5 was, "What media are we privately leaking to?" And you say, "Remember, I want to use Bloomberg in the United States." Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 155 of 285 1954 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. What happened to David Sanger? 3 A. At this time, there was concern raised by one of the other 4 consultants in terms of Sanger and whether or not he would 5 actually put out a favorable article. 6 recommendation made that we consider another reporter. 7 So, there was a We, at that time, looked at Bloomberg. The reporter 8 that was recommended was actually more related to TV. So, we 9 thought that we would look at one in print and one in TV, as 10 well. Bloomberg was going to be the television. 11 Q. 12 Mr. Craig, right? 13 A. No. 14 Q. So, there's no indication in here that you had, by then, 15 told Mr. Hawker about the suggestion of Mr. Sanger? 16 A. 17 Mr. Sanger was a possibility. 18 Q. 19 version of the messaging documents, right? You had never discussed a television reporter with By this point, I believe that Mr. Hawker was aware that Okay. 20 21 Now, the same day, Mr. Hawker sent you yet another If you go to government -- defendant -- ah -Defendant's Exhibit 126. 22 And this is Mr. Hawker sending you more versions of 23 these things, right? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Okay. And what -- if you turn to the next page. Let's Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 156 of 285 1 1955 just see what the first page looks like. 2 He actually is putting together here a proposed set 3 of question and answers that the Ministry of Justice might 4 answer when the Report was released, correct? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Okay. 7 And if you look at page -- the next page. MS. JUNGHANS: 8 "You can say," that part. 9 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 126-3, John. In about the lower -- 10 Q. One of the questions -- and, again, this is writing -- this 11 is anticipating, What if this question is asked? 12 going to say, right? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And the question that he anticipated was, "You say you have 15 only just received the Report and are just reading it. 16 it odd, given that you paid for it, you were not provided with 17 a draft? 18 "Answer: What are we We wanted an independent report. Isn't It would 19 not have been independent if we had requested a draft," right? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Well, that's not a truthful statement, is it? 22 A. These were statements designed by Mr. Hawker initially to 23 look at how we might potentially answer these questions or how 24 people from the Ministry of Justice would answer those 25 questions. But, in fact, a draft had been seen by multiple Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 157 of 285 1 groups before the final report was released. 2 Q. 3 statement? So the answer to my question is, yes, it's not a truthful 4 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 5 THE COURT: 6 Objection to the form. The statement that Mr. Hawker put in this draft as a possible answer to a Q&A was not accurate? 7 THE WITNESS: 8 THE COURT: 9 1956 That is correct. Okay. BY MS. JUNGHANS: 10 Q. And was that okay with you? 11 A. Frankly, I'd -- he had sent so many documents. 12 review every document in detail. 13 Q. I did not Okay. 14 MS. JUNGHANS: Scroll down to the part that says 15 "Findings." 16 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 17 Q. 18 Surely this was the key point you wanted to address. 19 disappointed?" "The Report is inconclusive on political motivation. 20 Are you This was, again, a question he imagined might come 21 up, right? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And the issue of political -- whether the prosecution of 24 Ms. Tymoshenko was politically motivated was the most important 25 issue for the government of Ukraine to dispel, correct? Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 158 of 285 1957 1 A. Yes, it was a major provision that needed to be dispelled. 2 Q. Okay. 3 were important, but they were secondary to this question of 4 whether this was a political prosecution of a former prime 5 minister? 6 A. 7 motivation piece was central to the Western leaders from other 8 European countries seeing that Ukraine did not do this through 9 political motivation. I mean, the issues about how the trial was conducted I'd say, both were important. But, the political 10 Q. 11 hypothetical question -- excuse me -- starts out with the 12 premise, "The Report is inconclusive on political motivation." 13 14 And so the -- the hypothetical statement -- or, the That's a true statement, isn't it? A. 15 Contrary... THE COURT: Well, at the time it was written or right 16 now? 17 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 18 Q. 19 you understood that the Report did not take a position on 20 whether there was a political motivation for the prosecution? 21 A. 22 statement about political motivation, but it was more extensive 23 than what Jonathan boiled it down to. 24 based on one of the greater conclusions in the Report -- 25 Q. At the time it was written -- at the time it was written, At the time of the Report, I recall that there was a All right. So this is a sound bite Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 159 of 285 1 A. -- about political motivation. 2 Q. We're going to get to the Report. 3 4 1958 But, is it your testimony that at that time you believed -- well, strike that. 5 Let's look at the answer. 6 "On the contrary" -- the proposed answer. 7 "On the contrary. The Report clearly states that 8 there is no evidence of political motivation." 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. The Report did not take a position about whether there was 11 political motivation, right? 12 A. 13 the -- that there was no evidence of political motivation. 14 Q. 15 prosecution? 16 A. 17 that the trial was not done out of political malice toward a 18 former opponent. 19 Q. 20 Ms. Tymoshenko presented enough evidence of political 21 prosecution that her conviction could be overturned because of 22 it, right? 23 A. Correct. 24 Q. And then there's the larger issue of whether Skadden 25 surveyed information outside the trial to make a conclusion Correct? My recollection of the Report was that there was -- that Are you distinguishing political motivation from selective No, we're not separating the two. We are trying to show And the issue was -- there's two issues. One is whether Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 160 of 285 1 about political prosecution? 2 A. 3 correct. 4 Q. 5 of the trial, correct? 6 A. 1959 I'm not sure about the second piece, but the first piece is Okay. Well, you know that Skadden only reviewed the record Correct. 7 MR. TAYLOR: 8 THE COURT: 9 And I was thinking I was going to let her finish this 10 MS. JUNGHANS: THE COURT: All right. Well, let me hear from Mr. Taylor and then you'll ask your questions and -- 15 16 And I just have one more, possibly two more, questions. 13 14 Yes. document before we broke for lunch. 11 12 Could we approach, Your Honor? MR. TAYLOR: It relates to the -- when we get a break. 17 THE COURT: 18 Your colleague says it's going to be in two 19 Okay. questions. 20 MR. TAYLOR: 21 THE COURT: 22 MS. JUNGHANS: 23 All right. You asked me to rise my hand. All right. All right. I think everybody is ready for lunch. You'll probably be relieved. 24 THE COURT: All right. 25 MS. JUNGHANS: Why don't we do it now, then? Sure, let's do that. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 161 of 285 1 THE COURT: 2 Thank you, Mr. Taylor. 3 All right. 1960 All right. Members of the jury, please don't discuss 4 this case among yourselves or with anyone else during the 5 break. 6 It is 1 p.m. We'll resume at 2 p.m. So, please enjoy your lunch, and don't discuss the 7 case or research it in any way. 8 Thank you. 9 (Whereupon the jury leaves the courtroom.) 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 THE COURT: All right. Everyone is excused. witness also gets a lunch, hopefully. I'll see you at 2 o'clock. * * * The Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 162 of 285 1961 1 2 CERTIFICATE OF OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 3 4 5 I, JANICE DICKMAN, do hereby certify that the above 6 and foregoing constitutes a true and accurate transcript of my 7 stenograph notes and is a full, true and complete transcript of 8 the proceedings to the best of my ability. 9 Dated this 22nd day of August, 2019. 10 11 12 /s/________________________ 13 Janice E. Dickman, CRR, RMR, CRC Official Court Reporter Room 6523 333 Constitution Avenue NW Washington, D.C. 20001 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 163 of 285 $ $800,000 [1] - 1909:25 ' 'leak' [1] - 1865:9 'selective [1] - 1857:23 'Ukraine [1] - 1858:1 / /s [1] - 1961:12 1 1 [7] - 1849:23, 1849:25, 1909:19, 1924:22, 1930:16, 1942:12, 1960:5 10 [1] - 1940:2 100 [1] - 1801:22 1000 [1] - 1802:3 1001 [1] - 1894:18 10th [5] - 1876:10, 1877:8, 1921:3, 1923:15, 1923:25 11 [2] - 1885:7, 1935:15 11:30 [1] - 1892:13 11:35 [1] - 1892:14 11th [2] - 1881:2, 1886:11 12 [2] - 1951:6, 1951:9 126 [1] - 1954:21 126-3 [1] - 1955:7 12th [4] - 1877:14, 1912:5, 1922:17, 1952:11 1300 [1] - 1877:22 14th [1] - 1929:7 166 [3] - 1834:18, 1834:23, 1916:14 176 [1] - 1924:11 18 [1] - 1935:23 1800 [1] - 1802:2 189 [1] - 1929:22 19-125 [2] - 1803:11, 1892:22 19-CR-125 [1] - 1801:3 1900 [1] - 1878:3 2 2 [13] - 1826:19, 1848:5, 1850:2, 1850:3, 1856:21, 1864:22, 1920:5, 1924:24, 1928:2, 1946:1, 1952:19, 1960:5, 1960:12 2-5-4 [1] - 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1814:14 Campoamor [5] - 1801:12, 1802:15, 1803:17, 1883:16, 1893:22 CAMPOAMOR [116] - 1803:15, 1804:14, 1810:23, 1811:21, 1812:2, 1812:4, 1819:8, 1819:10, 1820:8, 1820:10, 1820:20, 1821:3, 1821:8, 1821:12, 1822:9, 1825:4, 1825:6, 1826:8, 1826:9, 1829:10, 1830:3, 1830:4, 1830:18, 1830:24, 1831:2, 1831:3, 1831:15, 1833:16, 1834:20, 1834:22, 1837:3, 1837:4, 1837:20, 1839:8, 1842:2, 1842:8, 1842:23, 1843:17, 1843:19, 1843:25, 1844:20, 1845:14, 1847:9, 1847:18, 1847:20, 1849:18, 1849:20, 1849:21, 1854:7, 1854:14, 1854:16, 1855:24, 1857:3, 1860:11, 1860:13, 1862:12, 1862:13, 1865:24, 1866:9, 1866:10, 1867:7, 1867:9, 1868:3, 1868:4, 1868:15, 1868:17, 1871:7, 1871:20, 1872:2, 1873:1, 1873:14, 1873:18, 1873:24, 1874:4, 1874:6, 1875:13, 1879:6, 1879:7, 1883:20, 1884:7, 1884:9, 1888:10, 1888:11, 1891:13, 1891:16, 1891:21, 1892:6, 1892:19, 1899:19, 1900:11, 1900:14, 1900:18, 1901:2, 1901:12, 1901:17, 1902:1, 1902:17, 1902:24, 1906:22, 1909:4, 1914:15, 1921:9, 1921:24, 1922:11, 1922:14, 1923:5, 1927:12, 1932:9, 1932:14, 1933:3, 1936:23, 1942:6, 1947:2, 1949:17, 1951:21, 1956:4 Campoamor-Sanchez [2] - 1801:12, 1883:16 CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ [116] - 1803:15, 1804:14, 1810:23, 1811:21, 1812:2, 1812:4, 1819:8, 1819:10, 1820:8, 1820:10, 1820:20, 1821:3, 1821:8, 1821:12, 1822:9, 1825:4, 1825:6, 1826:8, 1826:9, 1829:10, 1830:3, 1830:4, 1830:18, 1830:24, 1831:2, 1831:3, 1831:15, 1833:16, 1834:20, 1834:22, 1837:3, 1837:4, 1837:20, 1839:8, 1842:2, 1842:8, 1842:23, 1843:17, 1843:19, 1843:25, 1844:20, 1845:14, 1847:9, 1847:18, 1847:20, 1849:18, 1849:20, 1849:21, 1854:7, 1854:14, 1854:16, 1855:24, 1857:3, 1860:11, 1860:13, 1862:12, 1862:13, 1865:24, 1866:9, 1866:10, 1867:7, 1867:9, 1868:3, 1868:4, 1868:15, 1868:17, 1871:7, 1871:20, 1872:2, 1873:1, 1873:14, 1873:18, 1873:24, 1874:4, 1874:6, 1875:13, 1879:6, 1879:7, 1883:20, 1884:7, 1884:9, 1888:10, 1888:11, 1891:13, 1891:16, 1891:21, 1892:6, 1892:19, 1899:19, 1900:11, 1900:14, 1900:18, 1901:2, 1901:12, 1901:17, 1902:1, 1902:17, 1902:24, 1906:22, 1909:4, 1914:15, 1921:9, 1921:24, 1922:11, 1922:14, 1923:5, 1927:12, 1932:9, 1932:14, 1933:3, 1936:23, 1942:6, 1947:2, 1949:17, 1951:21, 1956:4 Campoamor-Sanchez.......... 1812 [1] - 1802:15 candidates [2] - 1814:14, 1814:23 cannot [3] - 1882:8, 1931:23, 1934:4 capacity [1] - 1823:11 capture [2] - 1841:7, 1857:9 captured [1] - 1857:12 card [1] - 1911:21 care [1] - 1834:9 carry [4] - 1838:8, 1879:8, 1891:22, 1891:23 carrying [2] - 1845:10, 1920:3 Case [2] - 1803:11, 1892:21 case [37] - 1811:11, 1824:11, 1826:11, 1826:25, 1829:2, 1829:4, 1829:11, 1832:1, 1832:2, 1832:3, 1832:5, 1832:6, 1965 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 167 of 285 1832:7, 1835:21, 1854:22, 1859:8, 1859:24, 1860:5, 1860:9, 1874:23, 1875:3, 1881:25, 1882:2, 1882:10, 1892:12, 1893:8, 1894:21, 1896:11, 1896:16, 1896:20, 1897:18, 1925:6, 1930:4, 1960:4, 1960:7 cases [2] - 1825:14, 1891:4 caused [1] - 1897:2 causing [1] - 1902:12 central [1] - 1957:7 Centre [4] - 1835:14, 1867:14, 1898:13, 1900:20 certain [7] - 1851:18, 1853:21, 1859:2, 1859:3, 1863:4, 1885:17, 1921:18 certainly [4] - 1819:22, 1937:13, 1938:11, 1951:4 CERTIFICATE [1] - 1961:2 certify [1] - 1961:5 chairs [1] - 1892:15 change [2] - 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1928:14, 1929:19 communications [13] 1837:10, 1861:5, 1883:12, 1924:14, 1926:19, 1928:12, 1931:23, 1932:8, 1932:16, 1932:18, 1933:1, 1934:5, 1945:14 community [1] - 1851:15 companies [3] - 1817:17, 1836:17, 1836:18 companion [1] - 1897:10 company [6] - 1830:25, 1832:15, 1898:5, 1909:25, 1911:6, 1913:7 complained [2] - 1853:17, 1853:18 complaining [2] - 1852:7, 1852:18 complaints [1] - 1852:19 complete [3] - 1884:2, 1905:18, 1961:7 completed [1] - 1888:4 completely [2] - 1906:4, 1928:6 complex [1] - 1856:5 component [5] - 1836:12, 1836:13, 1851:7, 1865:4, 1918:14 components [4] - 1814:22, 1817:9, 1822:1, 1836:11 computers [1] - 1905:15 conceal [3] - 1906:13, 1910:13, 1913:9 concern [3] - 1830:9, 1855:6, 1954:3 concerned [3] - 1885:13, 1885:15, 1926:5 concerns [1] - 1853:3 conclude [10] - 1926:25, 1927:4, 1927:10, 1928:22, 1928:24, 1931:13, 1936:19, 1946:1, 1950:12, 1950:17 concluded [1] - 1937:4 concludes [4] - 1935:25, 1936:12, 1936:22, 1937:3 conclusion [3] - 1936:9, 1936:17, 1958:25 conclusions [6] - 1836:15, 1850:6, 1860:6, 1946:8, 1946:10, 1957:24 concrete [1] - 1921:16 conditions [1] - 1826:17 conduct [3] - 1839:1, 1851:5, 1882:17 conducted [1] - 1957:2 conducting [1] - 1894:22 conference [4] - 1868:22, 1940:8, 1940:10, 1940:11 confidence [1] - 1885:24 confiscated [1] - 1919:23 confused [1] - 1936:18 conjunction [1] - 1918:8 consider [2] - 1934:25, 1954:6 considerably [1] - 1851:25 Consideration [1] - 1935:16 considered [7] - 1845:20, 1869:18, 1886:8, 1921:21, 1922:22, 1922:24, 1923:18 conspiracy [9] - 1824:12, 1824:21, 1894:5, 1894:25, 1895:1, 1902:9, 1907:12, 1907:13 conspiring [1] - 1894:15 1966 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 168 of 285 constant [1] - 1815:13 constitute [1] - 1897:19 constitutes [1] - 1961:6 Constitution [2] - 1802:8, 1961:14 consultant [1] - 1886:9 consultants [16] - 1814:16, 1815:2, 1815:4, 1817:17, 1835:17, 1864:5, 1864:6, 1864:20, 1864:24, 1872:11, 1873:20, 1875:9, 1875:15, 1876:19, 1917:12, 1954:4 consulted [2] - 1820:18, 1820:19 Consulting [2] - 1817:20, 1866:21 consulting [4] - 1813:22, 1817:14, 1834:16, 1835:4 contact [15] - 1823:12, 1835:21, 1837:6, 1837:7, 1837:21, 1838:10, 1838:14, 1855:15, 1869:19, 1869:25, 1881:5, 1885:8, 1886:6, 1920:19 contacted [1] - 1934:16 contacts [5] - 1836:18, 1837:25, 1917:3, 1920:9, 1920:10 Contacts [1] - 1918:11 contain [1] - 1946:10 contained [1] - 1810:18 contemplates [1] - 1941:6 content [5] - 1847:7, 1849:15, 1856:7, 1930:14, 1946:8 contents [1] - 1880:10 context [3] - 1816:10, 1860:3, 1886:22 continue [2] - 1839:2, 1948:20 continued [7] - 1846:5, 1846:8, 1846:9, 1863:3, 1863:15, 1876:17, 1909:22 continuing [1] - 1857:10 contract [3] - 1834:5, 1851:13, 1862:7 contracting [2] - 1832:22, 1851:22 contractual [1] - 1862:7 contradicted [1] - 1948:17 contrary [2] - 1958:6, 1958:7 contrary.. [1] - 1957:14 control [10] - 1854:12, 1864:19, 1877:4, 1879:9, 1879:15, 1908:13, 1909:9, 1913:9, 1938:20, 1938:25 controlled [1] - 1909:10 controversy [1] - 1925:10 convenience [2] - 1811:15, 1811:18 conversation [11] - 1843:20, 1847:24, 1885:25, 1929:6, 1929:9, 1929:10, 1932:1, 1932:5, 1933:16, 1943:15, 1944:3 conversations [2] - 1811:10, 1838:6 convey [2] - 1835:23, 1853:22 conveyed [1] - 1821:18 conveying [2] - 1818:4, 1887:25 conviction [2] - 1936:2, 1958:21 cooks [1] - 1833:1 cooperated [1] - 1828:21 cooperation [8] - 1824:14, 1825:10, 1825:17, 1826:13, 1827:11, 1827:17, 1827:22, 1828:6 coordinate [5] - 1861:5, 1861:13, 1867:3, 1870:18, 1870:22 coordinating [1] - 1871:4 copied [5] - 1835:15, 1876:4, 1883:11, 1884:19, 1946:17 copy [6] - 1824:1, 1824:6, 1864:10, 1946:17, 1946:21, 1949:1 copying [1] - 1886:25 correct [126] - 1820:20, 1827:3, 1828:22, 1845:5, 1862:16, 1865:22, 1873:18, 1874:7, 1887:1, 1887:10, 1887:15, 1889:21, 1890:19, 1894:3, 1894:23, 1895:11, 1895:23, 1896:3, 1896:23, 1897:16, 1898:6, 1898:7, 1898:20, 1899:7, 1899:11, 1899:14, 1903:18, 1903:23, 1903:25, 1904:1, 1904:4, 1904:9, 1904:15, 1904:16, 1904:24, 1905:19, 1906:8, 1906:9, 1907:17, 1908:3, 1909:11, 1909:14, 1909:20, 1909:24, 1910:17, 1910:24, 1911:4, 1911:16, 1912:13, 1912:14, 1913:11, 1914:10, 1914:22, 1915:2, 1915:13, 1915:14, 1915:17, 1915:21, 1915:22, 1916:1, 1916:5, 1916:6, 1916:13, 1917:2, 1917:7, 1917:18, 1918:8, 1918:20, 1920:2, 1920:21, 1921:6, 1921:10, 1922:23, 1923:19, 1923:21, 1923:22, 1924:5, 1924:7, 1925:16, 1925:18, 1925:21, 1925:23, 1926:15, 1926:16, 1926:18, 1927:3, 1927:6, 1929:4, 1930:19, 1931:24, 1931:25, 1935:12, 1935:18, 1935:22, 1937:5, 1938:9, 1938:17, 1938:18, 1939:6, 1939:12, 1939:15, 1939:18, 1940:6, 1940:7, 1942:4, 1942:5, 1942:19, 1942:21, 1943:16, 1944:15, 1946:23, 1951:15, 1952:17, 1953:10, 1953:14, 1953:17, 1953:21, 1955:4, 1956:7, 1956:25, 1958:11, 1958:23, 1959:3, 1959:5, 1959:6 correcting [1] - 1827:25 correctly [1] - 1881:23 correspondent [3] - 1921:20, 1922:22, 1923:17 counsel [1] - 1803:13 Counsel [1] - 1894:22 Counsel's [2] - 1824:17, 1824:24 count [1] - 1894:18 counter [3] - 1924:18, 1925:8, 1925:17 counterpoints [1] - 1941:13 countries [3] - 1814:5, 1895:13, 1957:8 country [3] - 1815:11, 1816:12, 1926:3 counts [1] - 1906:24 couple [3] - 1815:3, 1854:20, 1929:24 course [2] - 1826:2, 1874:23 Court [6] - 1802:7, 1802:7, 1803:2, 1830:21, 1909:1, 1961:13 court [9] - 1810:16, 1819:1, 1821:11, 1844:22, 1854:6, 1875:12, 1893:21, 1902:25, 1933:25 COURT [163] - 1801:1, 1803:4, 1803:8, 1803:19, 1803:23, 1803:25, 1804:16, 1804:21, 1805:1, 1805:6, 1805:12, 1810:17, 1810:25, 1811:5, 1812:1, 1818:5, 1818:9, 1818:12, 1818:15, 1818:18, 1818:25, 1819:16, 1820:17, 1820:21, 1821:5, 1821:10, 1821:21, 1826:5, 1829:6, 1829:21, 1829:24, 1830:1, 1830:9, 1830:22, 1831:1, 1831:9, 1833:5, 1837:18, 1838:25, 1841:17, 1842:7, 1842:9, 1842:12, 1842:16, 1842:22, 1843:21, 1844:1, 1844:8, 1844:13, 1844:23, 1845:4, 1845:6, 1845:8, 1845:12, 1847:2, 1847:17, 1847:19, 1849:7, 1849:10, 1849:16, 1849:19, 1852:4, 1852:11, 1852:17, 1852:24, 1853:12, 1853:15, 1853:24, 1854:5, 1855:19, 1856:25, 1865:20, 1865:23, 1866:7, 1967 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 169 of 285 1871:3, 1871:6, 1871:14, 1871:25, 1872:17, 1872:20, 1873:12, 1873:15, 1873:19, 1874:11, 1874:16, 1874:21, 1875:3, 1875:7, 1883:16, 1883:24, 1891:10, 1891:17, 1892:1, 1892:4, 1892:8, 1892:17, 1892:23, 1893:1, 1893:4, 1899:21, 1899:25, 1900:12, 1900:16, 1900:25, 1901:5, 1901:8, 1901:18, 1902:6, 1902:22, 1903:5, 1906:23, 1907:2, 1907:9, 1912:20, 1912:22, 1912:25, 1913:2, 1914:16, 1921:11, 1922:1, 1922:5, 1922:7, 1922:9, 1922:17, 1923:7, 1923:10, 1923:12, 1927:14, 1927:18, 1927:20, 1932:12, 1932:20, 1933:6, 1933:9, 1933:17, 1936:25, 1937:9, 1937:11, 1937:15, 1937:18, 1941:15, 1941:18, 1942:9, 1944:10, 1944:12, 1948:23, 1949:20, 1950:5, 1950:7, 1951:23, 1952:4, 1952:7, 1956:5, 1956:8, 1957:15, 1959:8, 1959:13, 1959:17, 1959:21, 1959:24, 1960:1, 1960:10, 1961:2 Courthouse [1] - 1802:8 COURTROOM [6] - 1803:1, 1803:7, 1803:10, 1811:4, 1892:21, 1893:3 courtroom [7] - 1804:19, 1810:15, 1811:3, 1837:13, 1892:16, 1893:2, 1960:9 cover [1] - 1841:9 coverage [3] - 1889:5, 1889:7, 1890:17 covered [2] - 1840:9, 1848:14 Cox [1] - 1941:7 CPC [2] - 1858:12, 1858:13 crack [1] - 1871:19 craft [1] - 1876:20 Craig [105] - 1801:6, 1803:12, 1803:24, 1822:2, 1837:6, 1837:8, 1837:22, 1838:1, 1838:7, 1838:17, 1838:22, 1839:6, 1839:14, 1839:23, 1840:4, 1840:14, 1845:16, 1848:2, 1848:20, 1849:13, 1850:18, 1854:22, 1855:3, 1855:6, 1855:9, 1857:13, 1857:14, 1857:17, 1857:22, 1857:25, 1858:3, 1859:3, 1859:10, 1859:12, 1859:23, 1861:11, 1861:23, 1861:25, 1862:22, 1862:24, 1863:7, 1871:22, 1872:4, 1875:23, 1878:5, 1878:7, 1879:8, 1879:15, 1879:18, 1879:22, 1880:17, 1881:4, 1881:6, 1881:10, 1881:12, 1881:18, 1882:5, 1883:12, 1884:12, 1886:5, 1887:13, 1888:15, 1890:7, 1891:7, 1891:22, 1892:2, 1892:22, 1893:14, 1896:2, 1918:6, 1918:25, 1919:1, 1919:4, 1921:1, 1921:5, 1923:24, 1929:6, 1932:2, 1932:6, 1932:17, 1932:25, 1933:7, 1934:4, 1934:20, 1935:19, 1940:4, 1940:8, 1940:10, 1940:12, 1941:7, 1941:12, 1941:25, 1942:15, 1942:23, 1942:25, 1943:15, 1943:24, 1944:8, 1946:13, 1946:25, 1949:10, 1951:20, 1952:3, 1954:12 craig [2] - 1803:22, 1947:6 Craig's [8] - 1850:12, 1858:5, 1902:18, 1938:11, 1947:21, 1947:24, 1948:2, 1948:17 CRC [2] - 1802:7, 1961:13 create [2] - 1876:20, 1898:8 created [6] - 1816:5, 1859:17, 1876:16, 1898:12, 1923:16 credibility [3] - 1872:8, 1900:24, 1901:1 credible [6] - 1822:2, 1822:3, 1822:8, 1840:19, 1872:10, 1890:13 credit [1] - 1911:20 crime [11] - 1897:15, 1897:21, 1907:16, 1927:1, 1928:23, 1935:25, 1936:6, 1936:8, 1936:12, 1946:2, 1950:13 crimes [6] - 1827:13, 1894:2, 1906:7, 1907:18, 1925:20, 1931:14 criminal [5] - 1816:3, 1816:10, 1858:14, 1896:25, 1911:1 Criminal [2] - 1801:3, 1803:10 criticism [1] - 1816:13 cross [2] - 1892:9, 1892:24 CROSS [1] - 1893:12 Cross [1] - 1802:16 cross-examination [2] 1892:9, 1892:24 CROSS-EXAMINATION [1] 1893:12 Cross-Examination [1] 1802:16 cross.. [1] - 1900:15 crossed [1] - 1885:3 CRR [2] - 1802:7, 1961:13 current [1] - 1823:16 cut [1] - 1883:21 Cyprus [6] - 1814:4, 1831:20, 1895:15, 1910:10, 1910:19, 1913:10 D D.C [11] - 1834:16, 1864:5, 1864:6, 1864:15, 1864:24, 1865:16, 1870:21, 1904:2, 1929:12, 1961:15 date [15] - 1836:25, 1866:16, 1870:12, 1870:13, 1876:18, 1881:1, 1881:2, 1912:4, 1912:9, 1929:8, 1932:3, 1939:14, 1950:1, 1950:5 Dated [1] - 1961:9 dated [1] - 1922:17 David [30] - 1819:19, 1839:22, 1841:25, 1842:15, 1845:17, 1855:14, 1865:15, 1870:11, 1871:10, 1872:5, 1877:25, 1885:3, 1885:23, 1886:1, 1916:2, 1921:5, 1923:24, 1929:7, 1932:2, 1932:7, 1932:25, 1934:20, 1943:15, 1943:18, 1943:20, 1943:24, 1944:16, 1951:17, 1951:24, 1954:2 Davis [15] - 1815:1, 1821:7, 1903:5, 1903:10, 1903:11, 1903:12, 1911:24, 1913:13, 1914:25, 1915:5, 1915:6, 1915:25, 1948:8, 1948:11, 1951:20 dawned [1] - 1899:17 DAY [1] - 1801:8 days [1] - 1859:4 DC [5] - 1801:6, 1801:15, 1801:18, 1802:3, 1802:9 deal [1] - 1870:20 dealing [8] - 1832:18, 1835:2, 1853:25, 1862:6, 1887:18, 1888:1, 1898:15, 1900:2 dealt [2] - 1823:1, 1834:8 debrief [1] - 1861:23 debriefed [1] - 1864:11 debriefings [1] - 1861:11 December [8] - 1840:3, 1868:12, 1870:13, 1876:10, 1877:7, 1877:14, 1881:2, 1886:11 decide [1] - 1892:12 decided [1] - 1885:9 decides [2] - 1829:4, 1884:3 decision [22] - 1818:6, 1818:9, 1818:10, 1818:13, 1820:17, 1842:3, 1842:18, 1842:20, 1843:15, 1843:23, 1843:24, 1845:1, 1845:3, 1845:9, 1873:9, 1873:12, 1873:13, 1875:20, 1938:8, 1938:11, 1948:14 decisions [4] - 1820:13, 1968 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 170 of 285 1842:17, 1853:20, 1853:21 declined [1] - 1947:6 deductions [1] - 1909:6 defend [1] - 1925:22 Defendant [2] - 1801:7, 1801:20 defendant [9] - 1837:19, 1839:10, 1845:19, 1846:18, 1855:11, 1855:16, 1870:14, 1870:24, 1954:20 defendant's [2] - 1828:17, 1828:18 Defendant's [3] - 1919:10, 1944:22, 1954:21 defense [2] - 1873:3, 1919:14 define [2] - 1859:16, 1907:1 defined [1] - 1935:13 definitely [1] - 1883:25 definitive [1] - 1951:1 delegation [1] - 1823:3 delegations [1] - 1881:21 delete [1] - 1906:2 deleted [4] - 1905:14, 1905:19, 1905:21, 1906:5 delivery [3] - 1884:13, 1884:19, 1884:23 democracy [2] - 1815:25, 1822:15 demonstrate [1] - 1897:20 dense [1] - 1953:7 Department [3] - 1801:17, 1900:9, 1903:3 deployed [1] - 1834:1 deposition [1] - 1913:6 DEPUTY [6] - 1803:1, 1803:7, 1803:10, 1811:4, 1892:21, 1893:3 Deputy [1] - 1885:6 der [24] - 1832:21, 1838:11, 1861:4, 1879:25, 1880:1, 1880:17, 1881:14, 1882:14, 1882:17, 1886:25, 1887:4, 1887:6, 1919:2, 1929:14, 1942:14, 1946:16, 1946:19, 1946:21, 1946:24, 1947:11, 1947:21, 1948:1, 1948:8, 1949:7 describe [2] - 1814:24, 1830:19 described [6] - 1829:19, 1830:8, 1846:11, 1872:6, 1896:2, 1910:6 description [1] - 1815:7 designated [1] - 1861:4 designed [1] - 1955:22 Despite [1] - 1933:3 detail [4] - 1840:3, 1852:20, 1874:22, 1956:12 detailed [1] - 1855:8 details [3] - 1894:2, 1950:23, 1951:2 detained [1] - 1925:14 determine [2] - 1840:7, 1862:22 determined [1] - 1904:13 DICKMAN [1] - 1961:5 Dickman [2] - 1802:7, 1961:13 different [17] - 1815:2, 1815:4, 1815:5, 1817:9, 1825:16, 1835:25, 1837:8, 1840:21, 1843:16, 1843:17, 1850:9, 1854:21, 1863:15, 1868:9, 1904:23, 1905:20, 1908:21 differently [1] - 1945:23 difficult [2] - 1816:7, 1885:18 diminish [1] - 1859:23 dinners [2] - 1947:18, 1947:20 DIRECT [1] - 1812:3 direct [15] - 1815:6, 1835:20, 1837:7, 1839:1, 1883:17, 1883:19, 1884:2, 1890:15, 1893:20, 1896:9, 1899:4, 1914:19, 1916:15, 1921:4 Direct [1] - 1802:15 directed [2] - 1864:9, 1865:14 direction [11] - 1815:13, 1819:20, 1819:21, 1819:24, 1820:6, 1828:15, 1829:24, 1895:20, 1895:22, 1913:21, 1928:9 directly [4] - 1844:24, 1879:2, 1919:4, 1919:5 director [4] - 1835:13, 1861:5, 1898:18, 1898:19 disappointed [1] - 1956:19 disappointment [1] - 1890:3 discharge [1] - 1813:3 disclose [4] - 1918:6, 1946:25, 1947:6, 1948:2 disclosure [1] - 1931:24 discretion [1] - 1947:24 discuss [12] - 1804:6, 1804:12, 1805:8, 1838:17, 1854:2, 1882:3, 1892:10, 1893:8, 1940:6, 1940:12, 1960:3, 1960:6 discussed [9] - 1833:6, 1849:1, 1854:10, 1854:25, 1858:16, 1860:7, 1885:7, 1921:5, 1954:11 discussing [2] - 1880:15, 1945:1 discussion [10] - 1804:11, 1805:14, 1818:19, 1833:1, 1838:21, 1842:11, 1852:12, 1872:19, 1900:13, 1932:13 discussions [4] - 1839:6, 1856:8, 1862:18, 1887:8 dispel [1] - 1956:25 dispelled [1] - 1957:1 dispute [1] - 1854:1 distinction [1] - 1906:17 distinctions [1] - 1906:23 distinguishing [1] - 1958:14 DISTRICT [4] - 1801:1, 1801:1, 1801:10, 1801:14 District [3] - 1803:2, 1903:21 DMI [1] - 1902:11 document [34] - 1828:5, 1843:6, 1846:9, 1848:9, 1864:2, 1864:3, 1867:8, 1867:10, 1867:13, 1876:14, 1876:16, 1876:17, 1876:21, 1877:17, 1897:10, 1913:1, 1920:8, 1921:17, 1922:15, 1923:16, 1923:21, 1923:23, 1924:22, 1925:2, 1926:11, 1930:13, 1932:20, 1938:22, 1942:5, 1945:14, 1950:11, 1950:25, 1956:12, 1959:10 documents [17] - 1825:13, 1848:1, 1850:5, 1851:17, 1852:5, 1852:23, 1852:25, 1853:3, 1905:9, 1905:19, 1906:5, 1908:21, 1908:24, 1911:17, 1930:6, 1954:19, 1956:11 dollars [2] - 1908:10, 1908:17 domino [1] - 1841:10 Donald [1] - 1913:17 done [9] - 1813:21, 1819:17, 1828:4, 1828:5, 1904:20, 1919:6, 1924:6, 1926:8, 1958:17 door [2] - 1820:24, 1932:18 down [19] - 1837:3, 1850:16, 1850:21, 1851:9, 1868:3, 1879:6, 1883:21, 1888:10, 1896:5, 1898:9, 1902:13, 1922:21, 1931:9, 1931:20, 1934:9, 1934:11, 1940:2, 1956:14, 1957:23 draft [8] - 1926:15, 1927:14, 1938:20, 1951:25, 1955:17, 1955:19, 1955:25, 1956:6 drafted [3] - 1848:9, 1901:22, 1946:7 drafting [1] - 1936:10 drafts [1] - 1939:17 drawn [1] - 1811:16 driven [2] - 1896:12, 1896:16 drop [2] - 1826:24, 1931:20 dropped [5] - 1903:24, 1904:1, 1904:3, 1904:5, 1904:8 due [1] - 1907:24 duly [1] - 1811:24 during [9] - 1813:17, 1837:5, 1874:23, 1881:6, 1893:8, 1895:25, 1913:23, 1943:23, 1960:4 E early [9] - 1811:7, 1832:24, 1838:20, 1851:21, 1851:25, 1868:11, 1870:3, 1900:5, 1908:20 1969 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 171 of 285 ease [1] - 1830:15 East [1] - 1801:22 Eastern [1] - 1948:12 ECFMU [9] - 1898:14, 1898:24, 1899:8, 1899:12, 1900:8, 1901:14, 1917:9, 1917:15, 1917:16 ED [1] - 1885:6 edited [1] - 1939:4 educational [1] - 1812:19 effect [1] - 1841:10 effective [1] - 1822:15 effort [7] - 1817:8, 1817:10, 1822:18, 1839:18, 1846:8, 1865:3, 1874:14 efforts [4] - 1814:18, 1817:7, 1879:22, 1885:4 either [9] - 1862:14, 1864:11, 1908:2, 1910:23, 1918:24, 1919:23, 1921:16, 1950:4, 1950:16 elected [5] - 1815:16, 1816:1, 1816:25, 1883:6, 1915:23 election [4] - 1814:17, 1814:20, 1816:22, 1816:23 elections [1] - 1814:21 electronic [2] - 1884:13, 1884:19 elements [1] - 1946:10 elicit [1] - 1874:2 email [47] - 1804:22, 1804:24, 1834:24, 1835:18, 1836:25, 1847:21, 1847:23, 1847:24, 1856:12, 1856:14, 1864:1, 1868:21, 1869:15, 1869:17, 1870:12, 1876:4, 1876:10, 1876:14, 1880:23, 1880:24, 1881:3, 1882:5, 1884:12, 1884:18, 1886:23, 1886:24, 1887:6, 1887:16, 1887:20, 1887:23, 1888:22, 1888:23, 1889:1, 1889:6, 1889:9, 1891:2, 1905:20, 1916:20, 1917:6, 1919:16, 1942:17, 1943:5, 1944:17, 1944:18, 1944:20, 1945:1 Email [8] - 1801:16, 1801:16, 1801:19, 1801:24, 1801:25, 1801:25, 1802:4, 1802:5 emails [4] - 1837:10, 1876:5, 1884:11, 1900:4 [email protected] [1] - 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1802:15, 1802:16 EXAMINATION [2] - 1812:3, 1893:12 examination [3] - 1892:9, 1892:24, 1893:20 examined [1] - 1811:25 example [1] - 1941:11 examples [1] - 1881:8 exception [1] - 1820:25 exclusive [1] - 1878:1 excuse [5] - 1833:4, 1851:17, 1952:23, 1953:1, 1957:11 excused [6] - 1804:3, 1804:23, 1810:19, 1892:13, 1892:17, 1960:10 executing [1] - 1860:19 executive [3] - 1835:13, 1898:18, 1898:19 exhibit [8] - 1848:5, 1854:15, 1856:21, 1858:9, 1870:4, 1888:20, 1945:18, 1949:14 Exhibit [27] - 1823:25, 1824:3, 1834:18, 1834:23, 1847:14, 1848:3, 1856:9, 1863:24, 1867:5, 1868:13, 1869:12, 1876:6, 1880:21, 1883:15, 1886:20, 1893:16, 1897:6, 1916:14, 1919:9, 1919:10, 1924:11, 1929:22, 1937:23, 1943:3, 1944:22, 1952:10, 1954:21 exhibits [1] - 1919:13 existed [1] - 1931:17 exists [1] - 1897:20 exits [1] - 1810:15 expand [1] - 1869:20 expanding [1] - 1948:11 expect [3] - 1871:21, 1873:16, 1970 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 172 of 285 1938:1 expected [1] - 1931:3 expecting [1] - 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1851:14, 1929:2 independent [9] - 1822:8, 1822:10, 1822:11, 1880:7, 1973 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 175 of 285 1890:9, 1899:6, 1899:13, 1955:18, 1955:19 INDEX [1] - 1802:12 indicated [2] - 1881:12, 1948:13 indicating [1] - 1837:17 indication [1] - 1954:14 indicted [3] - 1823:18, 1903:20, 1903:21 individuals [5] - 1834:24, 1878:18, 1912:18, 1917:20, 1926:4 inferences [1] - 1811:16 inform [2] - 1827:12, 1886:16 information [15] - 1804:4, 1810:19, 1821:18, 1835:22, 1852:10, 1862:1, 1864:20, 1886:9, 1927:7, 1927:8, 1929:1, 1932:23, 1934:14, 1948:20, 1958:25 informed [3] - 1804:1, 1838:2, 1886:17 initial [3] - 1885:19, 1921:17, 1949:3 initials [1] - 1878:4 initiation [1] - 1819:22 injected [1] - 1874:21 input [1] - 1848:10 inputting [1] - 1860:19 inquiries [1] - 1903:4 inquiry [4] - 1900:7, 1903:2, 1911:3, 1920:11 inside [2] - 1822:5, 1899:3 insider [1] - 1911:3 insight [1] - 1946:5 instance [2] - 1906:4, 1950:24 instead [1] - 1881:15 instruction [5] - 1843:9, 1843:12, 1845:16, 1866:4, 1948:17 instructions [4] - 1811:10, 1830:19, 1843:3, 1948:3 integrity [1] - 1814:20 intend [1] - 1849:20 intended [1] - 1873:3 intending [1] - 1873:24 intent [1] - 1926:10 intention [1] - 1804:4 interaction [1] - 1912:17 interest [1] - 1948:9 interested [3] - 1839:16, 1882:1, 1905:10 interesting [1] - 1815:10 interests [3] - 1900:3, 1925:8, 1925:9 interfacing [1] - 1902:2 interim [1] - 1943:9 intermediary [3] - 1822:24, 1823:4, 1898:18 Internal [1] - 1896:21 internally [1] - 1850:25 international [6] - 1851:7, 1851:15, 1934:15, 1934:21, 1934:23, 1934:25 internationally [1] - 1813:23 interrupt [2] - 1819:10, 1852:15 interruptions [1] - 1830:16 interview [5] - 1871:22, 1878:7, 1888:3, 1888:7, 1888:16 interviewed [3] - 1905:3, 1912:4, 1912:5 interviews [2] - 1912:7, 1935:7 interviews/meetings [1] 1835:22 investigation [2] - 1823:19, 1894:22 investigators [2] - 1825:20, 1825:22 involved [8] - 1818:6, 1822:16, 1834:10, 1851:1, 1864:12, 1896:12, 1902:12, 1944:2 involvement [1] - 1823:6 involving [2] - 1832:3, 1896:2 irregularities [1] - 1931:17 irrespective [1] - 1936:2 IRS [1] - 1908:24 issue [31] - 1815:9, 1815:16, 1816:13, 1816:17, 1821:24, 1823:15, 1833:6, 1833:7, 1833:12, 1833:15, 1833:17, 1845:1, 1851:21, 1852:6, 1852:17, 1852:18, 1853:6, 1853:25, 1854:8, 1855:12, 1857:15, 1857:20, 1857:21, 1862:5, 1874:24, 1956:23, 1956:25, 1958:19, 1958:24 issued [1] - 1923:23 issues [20] - 1817:15, 1823:1, 1832:22, 1846:4, 1847:1, 1849:13, 1851:12, 1851:25, 1853:2, 1854:9, 1858:13, 1858:22, 1860:2, 1860:3, 1874:20, 1881:11, 1936:3, 1939:24, 1957:2, 1958:19 Issues [1] - 1859:25 Item [3] - 1934:12, 1935:15, 1935:23 item [7] - 1850:16, 1859:25, 1865:5, 1935:6, 1939:9, 1946:1, 1952:20 items [13] - 1838:7, 1851:16, 1854:25, 1856:7, 1858:15, 1860:18, 1860:20, 1860:21, 1861:1, 1861:9, 1865:6, 1893:22, 1941:11 Items [1] - 1860:14 iterations [2] - 1836:1, 1863:16 itself [1] - 1820:6 J JACKSON [1] - 1801:9 Jackson [1] - 1829:12 James [1] - 1801:20 JANICE [1] - 1961:5 Janice [2] - 1802:7, 1961:13 Jason [2] - 1801:17, 1803:16 jason.mccullough@usdoj. gov [1] - 1801:19 jeopardize [1] - 1888:4 job [1] - 1858:2 John [17] - 1893:24, 1896:5, 1897:24, 1898:10, 1916:23, 1920:16, 1924:23, 1926:23, 1928:2, 1928:19, 1931:8, 1934:11, 1938:25, 1942:14, 1945:22, 1951:7, 1955:7 join [1] - 1861:21 Jon [3] - 1919:19, 1942:13, 1944:24 Jonathan [16] - 1823:11, 1838:15, 1851:16, 1856:14, 1857:8, 1919:19, 1939:21, 1939:23, 1942:16, 1942:20, 1942:22, 1944:9, 1944:17, 1949:2, 1949:6, 1957:23 journalist [7] - 1845:21, 1846:12, 1862:15, 1889:25, 1934:21, 1934:24, 1935:1 journalists [6] - 1836:19, 1841:3, 1841:9, 1869:21, 1889:23, 1934:15 JUDGE [2] - 1801:9, 1801:10 judge [11] - 1829:2, 1829:3, 1829:7, 1829:11, 1860:9, 1904:13, 1940:15, 1940:21, 1940:23, 1940:25, 1941:2 Judge [1] - 1829:12 judge's [1] - 1828:7 judicial [2] - 1822:14, 1858:15 July [11] - 1839:3, 1920:5, 1921:3, 1922:17, 1923:15, 1923:16, 1923:25, 1929:7, 1929:24, 1932:4, 1950:9 jump [1] - 1844:3 junctures [1] - 1908:21 June [2] - 1836:25, 1839:3 JUNGHANS [172] - 1803:20, 1803:24, 1804:15, 1818:2, 1818:17, 1818:20, 1819:9, 1819:11, 1820:9, 1821:2, 1821:9, 1821:20, 1829:5, 1829:20, 1831:8, 1833:3, 1838:24, 1841:16, 1842:6, 1842:14, 1842:19, 1843:12, 1843:18, 1844:3, 1844:12, 1844:21, 1849:6, 1852:3, 1852:9, 1852:13, 1852:22, 1853:10, 1853:13, 1853:19, 1974 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 176 of 285 1854:4, 1855:18, 1865:19, 1866:6, 1871:2, 1871:24, 1872:16, 1873:11, 1874:1, 1874:5, 1874:8, 1874:13, 1874:18, 1875:2, 1875:6, 1875:11, 1891:9, 1891:25, 1892:25, 1893:11, 1893:13, 1893:16, 1893:18, 1893:24, 1894:1, 1896:5, 1896:8, 1897:6, 1897:8, 1897:24, 1898:1, 1898:9, 1898:11, 1899:23, 1900:1, 1900:22, 1901:3, 1901:7, 1901:10, 1901:15, 1901:24, 1902:5, 1902:15, 1902:20, 1903:1, 1903:7, 1906:25, 1907:7, 1907:10, 1907:11, 1909:5, 1912:21, 1912:23, 1913:1, 1913:4, 1913:5, 1914:17, 1916:22, 1916:24, 1919:9, 1919:11, 1920:16, 1920:18, 1921:12, 1922:2, 1922:6, 1922:8, 1922:10, 1922:13, 1922:16, 1922:18, 1922:20, 1923:9, 1923:11, 1923:14, 1924:10, 1924:12, 1924:23, 1925:1, 1926:23, 1926:24, 1927:15, 1927:16, 1927:19, 1927:21, 1927:22, 1928:2, 1928:4, 1928:18, 1928:21, 1929:22, 1929:23, 1931:8, 1931:12, 1932:24, 1933:8, 1933:15, 1933:24, 1934:1, 1934:11, 1934:13, 1937:1, 1937:7, 1937:10, 1937:13, 1937:17, 1937:20, 1937:21, 1937:23, 1937:24, 1938:24, 1939:1, 1941:17, 1941:19, 1942:11, 1944:13, 1945:22, 1945:25, 1947:5, 1949:9, 1949:19, 1949:21, 1950:8, 1951:6, 1951:12, 1952:2, 1952:5, 1952:8, 1952:9, 1955:7, 1955:9, 1956:9, 1956:14, 1956:16, 1957:17, 1959:11, 1959:22, 1959:25 Junghans [4] - 1802:1, 1803:21, 1893:10, 1893:14 Junghans....................1893 [1] - 1802:16 jurisdiction [1] - 1827:2 jurisdictions [3] - 1870:1, 1870:7, 1928:13 jurisprudence [1] - 1931:18 juror [6] - 1804:2, 1804:17, 1804:19, 1810:15, 1810:19, 1884:3 JUROR [4] - 1804:20, 1804:25, 1805:5, 1805:10 jurors [2] - 1811:15, 1893:7 jurors's [1] - 1810:18 JURY [2] - 1801:4, 1801:8 jury [13] - 1804:23, 1810:21, 1811:1, 1811:3, 1814:11, 1827:20, 1829:15, 1859:23, 1892:16, 1893:1, 1893:2, 1960:3, 1960:9 Justice [14] - 1801:17, 1851:13, 1862:6, 1862:8, 1886:14, 1888:13, 1900:9, 1903:3, 1915:1, 1915:13, 1916:9, 1916:10, 1955:3, 1955:24 justice [1] - 1816:10 justification [1] - 1925:20 K Kaczynski [1] - 1880:2 kaczynski [2] - 1880:14, 1887:5 kaczynski's [1] - 1880:4 keen [1] - 1885:23 keep [7] - 1862:20, 1865:14, 1883:25, 1889:3, 1890:20, 1950:22, 1951:8 keeping [7] - 1864:18, 1882:20, 1883:2, 1883:4, 1884:15, 1885:3, 1886:16 kept [3] - 1863:16, 1929:15, 1938:16 key [13] - 1859:8, 1862:21, 1863:4, 1865:9, 1870:1, 1870:6, 1879:19, 1880:12, 1881:21, 1921:18, 1923:1, 1935:7, 1956:18 kicked [1] - 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1823:20, 1876:16 larger [2] - 1823:19, 1958:24 last [9] - 1814:9, 1861:16, 1877:4, 1877:11, 1881:22, 1888:20, 1920:14, 1934:2, 1935:24 late [1] - 1846:21 launched [1] - 1870:8 launching [1] - 1819:13 laundering [1] - 1904:6 law [10] - 1817:11, 1817:16, 1817:24, 1817:25, 1822:5, 1829:18, 1859:19, 1907:4, 1907:5, 1929:3 lawyer [7] - 1823:2, 1860:9, 1901:4, 1901:8, 1901:13, 1901:23, 1902:2 lawyers [4] - 1835:21, 1836:3, 1900:20, 1905:4 lay [3] - 1821:4, 1933:18, 1938:9 lead [5] - 1822:17, 1841:2, 1931:23, 1932:8, 1934:5 leaders [5] - 1816:6, 1816:11, 1822:7, 1836:14, 1957:7 leading [2] - 1838:24, 1854:3 leak [1] - 1865:18 leaked [1] - 1843:2 leaking [1] - 1953:23 learned [5] - 1819:1, 1825:3, 1842:21, 1896:13, 1896:15 least [9] - 1826:3, 1841:7, 1844:6, 1885:21, 1891:2, 1911:1, 1942:22, 1946:12, 1949:6 leave [3] - 1885:7, 1892:14, 1946:21 leaves [2] - 1892:16, 1960:9 leaving [1] - 1907:18 lectern [1] - 1803:13 Lee [5] - 1920:22, 1921:22, 1975 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 177 of 285 1922:22, 1923:18, 1951:14 left [4] - 1865:5, 1883:23, 1913:13, 1945:9 legal [2] - 1832:13, 1906:23 legend [1] - 1876:25 legislators [1] - 1865:2 legitimate [1] - 1875:5 legwork [1] - 1841:4 Leon [1] - 1803:5 letter [6] - 1828:4, 1828:5, 1828:8, 1902:1, 1905:24, 1911:12 letters [1] - 1901:22 level [3] - 1846:25, 1847:3, 1897:2 liabilities [1] - 1906:14 liaised [1] - 1823:2 lie [5] - 1901:16, 1902:5, 1908:13, 1909:22, 1913:6 lied [15] - 1899:15, 1900:25, 1901:3, 1901:4, 1901:8, 1901:13, 1909:9, 1909:17, 1910:7, 1910:10, 1911:3, 1911:10, 1911:20, 1911:23, 1912:15 lieu [1] - 1903:17 light [5] - 1868:11, 1868:23, 1868:25, 1875:23, 1932:19 likely [2] - 1841:9, 1953:8 limit [2] - 1820:4, 1887:12 limited [2] - 1816:13, 1831:22 Limited [1] - 1831:18 line [31] - 1854:17, 1857:23, 1858:12, 1858:18, 1858:20, 1858:23, 1859:2, 1859:11, 1859:13, 1859:15, 1859:18, 1860:23, 1861:2, 1861:16, 1862:1, 1864:4, 1865:5, 1878:3, 1889:4, 1889:9, 1889:10, 1900:21, 1916:22, 1918:11, 1931:17, 1940:2, 1940:9, 1940:15, 1941:6, 1941:11, 1941:12 lined [1] - 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1846:8 Moscow [1] - 1935:16 most [6] - 1818:21, 1826:4, 1826:12, 1834:24, 1841:2, 1956:24 motion [1] - 1828:14 motivated [2] - 1816:7, 1956:24 motivation [11] - 1956:17, 1957:7, 1957:9, 1957:12, 1957:20, 1957:22, 1958:1, 1958:8, 1958:11, 1958:13, 1958:14 move [11] - 1815:20, 1819:17, 1977 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 179 of 285 1821:5, 1828:15, 1829:13, 1842:6, 1844:17, 1845:23, 1851:9, 1854:12, 1868:5 movements [1] - 1949:24 moving [4] - 1815:17, 1816:8, 1840:21, 1943:8 MR [119] - 1803:15, 1804:14, 1810:23, 1811:21, 1812:2, 1812:4, 1819:8, 1819:10, 1820:8, 1820:10, 1820:20, 1821:3, 1821:8, 1821:12, 1822:9, 1825:4, 1825:6, 1826:8, 1826:9, 1829:10, 1830:3, 1830:4, 1830:18, 1830:24, 1831:2, 1831:3, 1831:15, 1833:16, 1834:20, 1834:22, 1837:3, 1837:4, 1837:20, 1839:8, 1842:2, 1842:8, 1842:23, 1843:17, 1843:19, 1843:25, 1844:20, 1845:14, 1847:9, 1847:18, 1847:20, 1849:18, 1849:20, 1849:21, 1854:7, 1854:14, 1854:16, 1855:24, 1857:3, 1860:11, 1860:13, 1862:12, 1862:13, 1865:24, 1866:9, 1866:10, 1867:7, 1867:9, 1868:3, 1868:4, 1868:15, 1868:17, 1871:7, 1871:20, 1872:2, 1873:1, 1873:14, 1873:18, 1873:24, 1874:4, 1874:6, 1875:13, 1879:6, 1879:7, 1883:20, 1884:7, 1884:9, 1888:10, 1888:11, 1891:13, 1891:16, 1891:21, 1892:6, 1892:19, 1899:19, 1900:11, 1900:14, 1900:18, 1901:2, 1901:12, 1901:17, 1902:1, 1902:17, 1902:24, 1906:22, 1909:4, 1914:15, 1921:9, 1921:24, 1922:11, 1922:14, 1923:5, 1927:12, 1932:9, 1932:14, 1933:3, 1936:23, 1942:6, 1947:2, 1949:17, 1951:21, 1956:4, 1959:7, 1959:15, 1959:20 MS [172] - 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1810:16 opening [1] - 1932:17 opine [1] - 1873:23 opinion [1] - 1872:22 opinions [3] - 1818:4, 1852:15, 1875:18 opponent [1] - 1958:18 opportunities [2] - 1838:17, 1948:10 opportunity [3] - 1861:24, 1948:10, 1948:11 oppose [2] - 1828:14, 1828:18 opposed [6] - 1819:19, 1821:6, 1844:10, 1872:12, 1873:5, 1875:15 Opposition [1] - 1859:13 order [5] - 1831:14, 1834:4, 1847:5, 1921:18, 1929:3 organization [3] - 1835:14, 1899:6, 1914:4 organized [2] - 1833:14, 1919:14 oriented [3] - 1817:25, 1822:17, 1857:9 original [2] - 1836:2, 1934:8 originally [1] - 1834:14 out-of-court [1] - 1819:1 outlet [1] - 1865:9 outline [1] - 1948:20 outlined [2] - 1862:23, 1863:14 outlines [1] - 1828:4 outreach [2] - 1920:5, 1943:10 outside [3] - 1822:5, 1880:13, 1958:25 Overall [1] - 1889:16 overall [11] - 1823:12, 1834:15, 1846:7, 1849:25, 1851:7, 1858:2, 1864:21, 1865:2, 1889:22, 1891:1, 1924:20 overnight [1] - 1811:11 overruled [3] - 1841:19, 1871:25, 1921:11 overseas [1] - 1813:25 1979 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 181 of 285 overturned [1] - 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1924:24, 1926:23, 1928:2, 1928:18, 1931:7, 1945:19, 1945:20, 1951:6, 1951:9 Penalties [1] - 1893:25 penalty [2] - 1824:20, 1824:23 pending [1] - 1823:21 Pennsylvania [1] - 1801:18 people [24] - 1816:1, 1819:23, 1822:24, 1823:1, 1830:10, 1836:22, 1838:7, 1848:17, 1850:5, 1852:6, 1853:2, 1853:8, 1853:17, 1853:22, 1863:5, 1916:20, 1917:11, 1917:16, 1918:7, 1926:5, 1942:13, 1953:8, 1953:12, 1955:24 perceived [1] - 1854:9 perception [1] - 1855:16 perhaps [1] - 1875:4 Pericles [1] - 1913:7 period [9] - 1813:18, 1814:8, 1814:15, 1871:17, 1895:25, 1913:18, 1913:23, 1914:18, 1943:23 persecution [1] - 1925:15 person [12] - 1841:14, 1842:25, 1844:9, 1845:6, 1846:18, 1860:24, 1862:5, 1867:2, 1906:20, 1917:6, 1917:8, 1928:8 person's [1] - 1820:6 personal [6] - 1805:2, 1810:18, 1818:3, 1845:8, 1848:15, 1872:24 personally [8] - 1819:19, 1822:20, 1838:16, 1882:1, 1884:4, 1903:8, 1903:9 perspective [2] - 1842:25, 1911:1 persuaded [1] - 1948:1 pertained [1] - 1864:14 Phase [3] - 1869:18, 1869:22, 1869:24 phase [1] - 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1816:21, 1870:14, 1870:24, 1871:4 played [1] - 1880:12 players [1] - 1850:25 playing [1] - 1900:23 plea [17] - 1824:6, 1824:11, 1980 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 182 of 285 1824:14, 1826:13, 1829:8, 1893:19, 1897:9, 1897:15, 1903:16, 1903:25, 1904:15, 1905:8, 1906:6, 1908:23, 1910:25, 1914:9 plead [2] - 1824:11, 1824:16 pleading [1] - 1897:14 pled [8] - 1825:8, 1894:2, 1894:15, 1894:18, 1900:14, 1901:19, 1907:12, 1908:20 Podesta [8] - 1835:4, 1863:22, 1870:21, 1873:4, 1899:9, 1900:2, 1900:5, 1917:23 point [40] - 1818:24, 1820:24, 1823:12, 1838:10, 1838:13, 1849:25, 1850:3, 1852:2, 1853:2, 1857:11, 1860:15, 1862:5, 1865:13, 1867:2, 1868:10, 1869:6, 1869:9, 1869:11, 1871:10, 1881:18, 1885:10, 1889:17, 1915:8, 1916:10, 1921:14, 1929:5, 1931:9, 1931:11, 1931:20, 1933:21, 1934:3, 1936:14, 1937:4, 1938:1, 1938:6, 1939:8, 1942:2, 1952:23, 1954:16, 1956:18 Point [5] - 1849:23, 1850:2, 1850:7, 1850:10, 1851:9 pointed [2] - 1885:6, 1907:14 points [1] - 1850:21 Poland [2] - 1880:3, 1882:8 policy [2] - 1812:22, 1817:14 political [24] - 1813:22, 1813:25, 1814:14, 1815:8, 1816:5, 1859:12, 1915:20, 1925:14, 1956:17, 1956:23, 1957:4, 1957:6, 1957:9, 1957:12, 1957:20, 1957:22, 1958:1, 1958:8, 1958:11, 1958:13, 1958:14, 1958:17, 1958:20, 1959:1 political' [1] - 1857:24 politically [3] - 1816:7, 1816:11, 1956:24 politician [1] - 1880:19 politicians [10] - 1855:9, 1859:13, 1861:12, 1863:4, 1879:19, 1880:13, 1881:12, 1881:19, 1887:8 portion [2] - 1810:17, 1927:25 portions [1] - 1850:19 position [9] - 1885:18, 1928:15, 1935:25, 1936:6, 1936:11, 1936:14, 1936:21, 1957:19, 1958:10 positive [6] - 1840:17, 1841:1, 1872:7, 1890:11, 1890:15, 1891:5 possibility [3] - 1950:18, 1950:19, 1954:17 possible [5] - 1830:19, 1856:6, 1857:13, 1874:15, 1956:6 possibly [4] - 1861:17, 1865:10, 1912:3, 1959:11 Post [4] - 1885:8, 1886:1, 1886:4, 1935:5 potential [4] - 1838:21, 1860:21, 1886:3, 1929:4 potentially [8] - 1828:10, 1835:20, 1863:19, 1864:11, 1865:14, 1944:2, 1948:10, 1955:23 PR [30] - 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1816:1 pretty [4] - 1820:18, 1834:1, 1875:5, 1905:5 previous [6] - 1816:11, 1827:8, 1828:11, 1919:23, 1926:3, 1945:22 previously [4] - 1845:17, 1863:14, 1903:17, 1945:4 primarily [11] - 1813:19, 1814:3, 1814:13, 1816:15, 1822:24, 1823:1, 1823:10, 1855:15, 1879:19, 1882:25, 1930:5 primary [4] - 1815:9, 1815:16, 1822:12, 1823:11 prime [5] - 1816:2, 1816:4, 1832:3, 1926:3, 1957:4 principal [3] - 1815:2, 1866:22, 1898:4 principle [1] - 1818:24 print [2] - 1885:24, 1954:9 private [2] - 1804:6, 1813:20 privately [1] - 1953:23 pro [1] - 1873:6 pro-Tymoshenko [1] - 1873:6 proactive [1] - 1933:1 proactively [3] - 1931:23, 1932:8, 1934:5 probation [1] - 1828:15 problem [3] - 1818:20, 1833:9, 1833:10 procedural [1] - 1936:3 procedure [1] - 1858:14 proceed [6] - 1812:1, 1882:3, 1883:7, 1884:6, 1892:23, 1893:10 proceedings [2] - 1810:22, 1961:8 proceeds [1] - 1916:11 process [12] - 1823:9, 1829:19, 1830:5, 1830:6, 1831:6, 1832:23, 1851:23, 1858:2, 1870:3, 1896:15, 1904:21, 1916:17 processes [1] - 1861:21 procurement [1] - 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1828:13, 1919:1, 1919:5, 1945:10, 1955:16 provides [1] - 1828:8 provision [1] - 1957:1 Pshonka [2] - 1940:19, 1940:23 public [15] - 1801:5, 1805:6, 1812:22, 1817:19, 1832:10, 1834:11, 1836:1, 1836:8, 1836:12, 1836:18, 1836:22, 1839:6, 1852:19, 1873:5, 1943:11 publication [2] - 1928:6, 1934:16 publications [5] - 1836:20, 1870:7, 1921:19, 1923:1, 1923:2 publicly [2] - 1871:16, 1877:21 publish [1] - 1888:12 published [1] - 1889:15 pull [2] - 1815:13, 1893:24 pulling [1] - 1881:19 purporting [1] - 1933:13 purports [1] - 1939:11 purpose [16] - 1821:14, 1821:19, 1836:17, 1846:24, 1846:25, 1849:3, 1849:5, 1849:10, 1849:12, 1850:17, 1853:23, 1900:15, 1900:21, 1905:21, 1925:6 purposes [2] - 1817:18, 1859:12 pursuant [2] - 1825:17, 1893:20 put [26] - 1803:8, 1816:2, 1824:1, 1835:20, 1843:6, 1843:7, 1854:22, 1861:2, 1862:19, 1865:20, 1893:16, 1910:7, 1916:2, 1917:16, 1921:17, 1922:21, 1922:25, 1928:12, 1931:5, 1932:20, 1934:8, 1939:25, 1941:15, 1950:25, 1954:5, 1956:5 putting [3] - 1871:16, 1882:24, 1955:2 Q Q&A [3] - 1835:22, 1851:18, 1956:6 Q&As [2] - 1858:18, 1858:21 questioning [1] - 1900:21 questions [21] - 1825:24, 1841:17, 1843:8, 1844:24, 1851:18, 1851:19, 1892:7, 1893:15, 1896:9, 1901:14, 1902:3, 1907:3, 1933:12, 1933:19, 1941:4, 1955:10, 1955:23, 1955:25, 1959:12, 1959:14, 1959:19 quibble [1] - 1907:4 quickly [1] - 1833:19 quite [5] - 1833:20, 1859:2, 1906:10, 1939:23, 1950:23 quotes [2] - 1890:2, 1890:3 R raise [1] - 1884:4 raised [2] - 1849:14, 1954:3 ran [3] - 1815:15, 1816:23 range [4] - 1825:2, 1825:7, 1825:9, 1896:10 ranking [1] - 1880:18 rather [1] - 1913:2 Re [1] - 1884:19 reach [5] - 1839:17, 1863:3, 1863:6, 1864:9, 1870:8 reaching [1] - 1836:22 reaction [1] - 1851:10 read [11] - 1852:23, 1852:25, 1858:8, 1877:23, 1881:22, 1889:9, 1902:7, 1953:8, 1953:12, 1953:13 reading [5] - 1828:16, 1858:23, 1878:17, 1901:25, 1955:15 reads [5] - 1850:22, 1857:4, 1865:8, 1876:12, 1884:19 ready [8] - 1810:21, 1810:25, 1881:17, 1890:16, 1949:4, 1949:25, 1959:22 really [3] - 1883:22, 1886:7, 1900:20 reason [6] - 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1818:7, 1822:8, 1822:10, 1822:11, 1822:13, 1836:4, 1850:1, 1861:5, 1865:8, 1872:7, 1872:8, 1873:5, 1875:16, 1880:7, 1889:7, 1889:17, 1908:1, 1908:7, 1929:2, 1932:3, 1935:25, 1951:24, 1953:7, 1955:18, 1956:1 reporter [29] - 1839:10, 1839:15, 1839:19, 1840:8, 1840:15, 1840:16, 1840:17, 1841:13, 1841:20, 1841:23, 1841:25, 1843:1, 1843:16, 1865:9, 1869:9, 1869:20, 1869:25, 1870:10, 1871:9, 1871:16, 1871:17, 1872:6, 1872:10, 1887:13, 1890:13, 1951:13, 1954:6, 1954:7, 1954:11 Reporter [3] - 1802:7, 1802:7, 1961:13 REPORTER [1] - 1961:2 reporters [17] - 1841:2, 1841:5, 1854:21, 1855:9, 1861:12, 1870:1, 1870:6, 1921:18, 1943:10, 1943:19, 1943:21, 1943:22, 1945:2, 1945:4, 1945:7, 1951:9, 1951:13 reporting [2] - 1840:9, 1887:7 reports [3] - 1886:1, 1894:11, 1895:9 represent [2] - 1893:14, 1917:20 representations [1] - 1902:4 representative [2] - 1879:4, 1898:15 represented [1] - 1899:12 representing [2] - 1867:14, 1901:4 reputable [1] - 1817:24 request [5] - 1805:2, 1828:15, 1946:19, 1948:16 requested [6] - 1864:2, 1881:13, 1882:18, 1928:11, 1931:4, 1955:19 requesting [1] - 1856:14 requests [1] - 1861:21 required [6] - 1804:11, 1826:13, 1827:12, 1859:24, 1904:17, 1905:8 research [2] - 1811:10, 1960:7 resolve [1] - 1833:19 resolved [2] - 1816:17, 1833:17 respect [18] - 1816:6, 1821:24, 1826:5, 1826:6, 1844:15, 1849:14, 1850:19, 1851:6, 1851:13, 1851:21, 1851:25, 1862:7, 1865:2, 1883:4, 1906:12, 1907:12, 1907:19, 1916:6 respond [5] - 1851:19, 1856:16, 1882:5, 1882:9, 1887:17 1983 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 185 of 285 responding [1] - 1948:24 responds [1] - 1945:3 response [6] - 1842:22, 1887:16, 1896:9, 1945:16, 1948:16, 1949:3 responses [1] - 1918:21 responsibilities [1] - 1832:10 responsibility [1] - 1866:25 responsible [4] - 1828:25, 1875:22, 1877:3, 1882:20 rest [1] - 1888:4 restitution [2] - 1904:12, 1904:14 restrictions [1] - 1931:24 result [3] - 1816:5, 1820:2, 1856:8 resulted [1] - 1838:7 resume [3] - 1892:13, 1892:18, 1960:5 retaining [1] - 1899:9 return [6] - 1894:24, 1906:18, 1907:16, 1910:3 returns [10] - 1827:9, 1894:8, 1894:9, 1895:7, 1895:25, 1906:16, 1907:22, 1907:23, 1910:6, 1914:8 Revenue [1] - 1896:21 review [8] - 1817:12, 1828:7, 1847:5, 1850:4, 1860:6, 1860:8, 1908:21, 1956:12 reviewed [2] - 1939:5, 1959:4 revise [1] - 1930:6 revised [3] - 1908:24, 1930:2, 1930:15 RG [1] - 1860:23 RG-AVZ [1] - 1860:23 RICHARD [1] - 1811:23 Richard [5] - 1802:14, 1803:3, 1803:5, 1811:22, 1812:9 Richmond [1] - 1812:14 Rick [3] - 1884:20, 1885:6, 1885:25 right-hand [1] - 1876:25 rights [1] - 1941:8 rise [2] - 1803:1, 1959:20 risk [2] - 1872:9, 1890:12 RMR [2] - 1802:7, 1961:13 road [1] - 1902:14 roadblocks [1] - 1815:19 Robert [1] - 1824:17 Rohde [1] - 1803:18 role [23] - 1814:24, 1816:21, 1817:5, 1822:20, 1822:23, 1823:9, 1850:14, 1851:5, 1870:14, 1870:16, 1870:18, 1870:23, 1870:24, 1871:3, 1871:8, 1871:9, 1880:4, 1880:12, 1880:15, 1891:22, 1899:1, 1899:3, 1913:16 roles [3] - 1850:8, 1850:12, 1862:23 rollout [22] - 1823:6, 1823:13, 1834:11, 1838:17, 1839:11, 1847:8, 1847:11, 1850:15, 1850:20, 1851:2, 1861:10, 1867:15, 1869:6, 1870:15, 1870:16, 1881:6, 1882:21, 1886:17, 1890:25, 1891:8, 1924:21, 1927:9 room [1] - 1946:20 Room [2] - 1802:8, 1961:14 roundtable [1] - 1935:17 row [2] - 1883:24, 1883:25 rule [1] - 1821:1 ruled [1] - 1821:21 rules [2] - 1830:10, 1844:11 run [4] - 1836:1, 1881:25, 1885:5, 1885:23 running [1] - 1908:5 Russia [1] - 1815:12 S SA [6] - 1860:23, 1862:2, 1917:4, 1918:12, 1920:4, 1931:21 Sager [1] - 1886:24 sager [2] - 1887:11, 1887:12 SANCHEZ [116] - 1803:15, 1804:14, 1810:23, 1811:21, 1812:2, 1812:4, 1819:8, 1819:10, 1820:8, 1820:10, 1820:20, 1821:3, 1821:8, 1821:12, 1822:9, 1825:4, 1825:6, 1826:8, 1826:9, 1829:10, 1830:3, 1830:4, 1830:18, 1830:24, 1831:2, 1831:3, 1831:15, 1833:16, 1834:20, 1834:22, 1837:3, 1837:4, 1837:20, 1839:8, 1842:2, 1842:8, 1842:23, 1843:17, 1843:19, 1843:25, 1844:20, 1845:14, 1847:9, 1847:18, 1847:20, 1849:18, 1849:20, 1849:21, 1854:7, 1854:14, 1854:16, 1855:24, 1857:3, 1860:11, 1860:13, 1862:12, 1862:13, 1865:24, 1866:9, 1866:10, 1867:7, 1867:9, 1868:3, 1868:4, 1868:15, 1868:17, 1871:7, 1871:20, 1872:2, 1873:1, 1873:14, 1873:18, 1873:24, 1874:4, 1874:6, 1875:13, 1879:6, 1879:7, 1883:20, 1884:7, 1884:9, 1888:10, 1888:11, 1891:13, 1891:16, 1891:21, 1892:6, 1892:19, 1899:19, 1900:11, 1900:14, 1900:18, 1901:2, 1901:12, 1901:17, 1902:1, 1902:17, 1902:24, 1906:22, 1909:4, 1914:15, 1921:9, 1921:24, 1922:11, 1922:14, 1923:5, 1927:12, 1932:9, 1932:14, 1933:3, 1936:23, 1942:6, 1947:2, 1949:17, 1951:21, 1956:4 Sanchez [2] - 1801:12, 1883:16 Sanchez..........1812 [1] 1802:15 [email protected] [1] 1801:16 sanger [1] - 1883:4 Sanger [62] - 1839:22, 1840:4, 1840:6, 1840:8, 1840:14, 1840:16, 1841:25, 1842:3, 1842:15, 1843:5, 1845:6, 1845:17, 1845:19, 1845:20, 1854:21, 1855:14, 1862:14, 1862:18, 1862:19, 1863:4, 1865:15, 1866:11, 1869:11, 1870:11, 1871:10, 1872:5, 1872:9, 1873:16, 1877:20, 1877:25, 1878:13, 1879:11, 1883:3, 1883:6, 1883:13, 1884:15, 1884:23, 1886:6, 1888:3, 1890:13, 1921:5, 1923:24, 1929:7, 1932:2, 1932:7, 1932:25, 1934:20, 1934:25, 1943:15, 1943:18, 1943:20, 1943:24, 1944:1, 1944:2, 1944:16, 1951:17, 1951:20, 1951:24, 1954:2, 1954:4, 1954:15, 1954:17 Sanger's [2] - 1866:2, 1867:18 Saunders [5] - 1866:17, 1866:20, 1866:25, 1867:2, 1867:13 saw [1] - 1949:23 scenes [1] - 1834:9 schedule [1] - 1861:14 scheme [2] - 1897:25, 1898:5 Schoen [1] - 1819:5 Schultz [1] - 1878:18 scope [2] - 1899:20, 1900:19 screen [2] - 1824:2, 1834:18 scroll [4] - 1896:5, 1898:9, 1940:2, 1956:14 Sea [2] - 1831:18, 1913:6 sealed [1] - 1810:18 search [1] - 1840:11 seat [1] - 1804:18 seated [3] - 1811:1, 1837:15, 1893:4 seating [1] - 1811:14 seats [1] - 1811:17 SEC [2] - 1911:3, 1911:5 second [12] - 1839:4, 1839:24, 1840:3, 1857:20, 1861:16, 1984 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 186 of 285 1870:4, 1886:23, 1918:11, 1931:9, 1931:11, 1933:22, 1959:2 secondary [1] - 1957:3 Section [2] - 1894:13, 1896:6 section [5] - 1857:6, 1857:7, 1860:16, 1893:25, 1935:5 secured [1] - 1936:1 see [27] - 1837:13, 1840:11, 1850:13, 1850:14, 1856:15, 1858:6, 1861:2, 1861:14, 1864:6, 1865:6, 1884:12, 1888:6, 1891:1, 1897:1, 1906:2, 1920:6, 1921:3, 1936:16, 1943:12, 1945:15, 1946:22, 1949:1, 1949:6, 1949:24, 1949:25, 1955:1, 1960:12 seed [1] - 1845:21 seeded [2] - 1843:2, 1885:19 seeding [9] - 1846:11, 1846:13, 1869:7, 1869:10, 1883:3, 1883:13, 1889:25, 1890:21, 1890:25 seeing [1] - 1957:8 select [2] - 1870:1, 1889:22 selected [8] - 1841:14, 1841:16, 1841:20, 1841:21, 1841:23, 1841:25, 1843:10, 1923:3 selective [2] - 1890:2, 1958:14 send [6] - 1829:21, 1864:17, 1902:1, 1942:14, 1942:23, 1942:25 sending [4] - 1887:20, 1889:1, 1930:1, 1954:22 sense [2] - 1883:21, 1938:15 sent [21] - 1804:24, 1831:11, 1847:24, 1854:13, 1864:3, 1864:18, 1869:18, 1876:4, 1877:8, 1887:22, 1889:8, 1916:20, 1938:19, 1940:16, 1941:3, 1942:12, 1942:13, 1942:16, 1945:4, 1954:18, 1956:11 sentence [13] - 1825:8, 1828:10, 1829:11, 1835:24, 1927:1, 1927:18, 1927:19, 1927:20, 1928:23, 1932:21, 1935:24, 1946:2, 1950:13 sentencing [2] - 1823:21, 1829:1 separate [3] - 1826:25, 1836:9, 1906:4 separately [1] - 1915:15 separating [1] - 1958:16 September [5] - 1839:5, 1846:21, 1861:7, 1919:4, 1952:11 Serhiy [2] - 1930:21, 1930:22 series [6] - 1815:2, 1835:9, 1850:4, 1858:15, 1863:23, 1917:12 serious [1] - 1921:13 serve [1] - 1879:21 served [4] - 1813:1, 1899:1, 1899:3, 1913:16 service [1] - 1804:23 Service [1] - 1896:21 session [1] - 1803:2 set [11] - 1813:20, 1836:10, 1846:25, 1847:3, 1853:24, 1861:23, 1868:22, 1904:14, 1926:19, 1939:11, 1955:2 sets [4] - 1846:7, 1897:13, 1897:23, 1941:24 setting [2] - 1820:15, 1836:21 several [2] - 1847:1, 1908:7 share [3] - 1918:24, 1942:7, 1942:10 shared [4] - 1884:20, 1884:21, 1939:17, 1942:5 short [1] - 1874:15 shortened [1] - 1931:6 shorthand [2] - 1856:20, 1859:9 show [5] - 1834:17, 1927:9, 1930:7, 1930:14, 1958:16 showed [2] - 1855:6, 1907:24 side [3] - 1876:23, 1876:25, 1934:23 sides [2] - 1805:13, 1846:4 sign [2] - 1911:12, 1940:6 significant [5] - 1815:19, 1834:2, 1875:1, 1880:15, 1886:6 significantly [2] - 1855:14, 1863:5 similar [1] - 1940:1 simply [3] - 1843:24, 1877:2, 1907:23 single [1] - 1857:15 sit [4] - 1804:5, 1804:9, 1866:11, 1867:22 sitting [3] - 1804:8, 1837:17, 1868:6 situation [4] - 1815:8, 1816:2, 1925:11, 1948:19 six [4] - 1813:1, 1918:4, 1918:18, 1920:11 size [1] - 1854:1 SKA/GC [1] - 1850:14 Skadden [81] - 1817:11, 1817:16, 1817:19, 1817:23, 1817:24, 1818:6, 1819:5, 1819:6, 1821:15, 1821:19, 1822:1, 1822:20, 1822:25, 1823:2, 1823:5, 1823:7, 1829:16, 1829:18, 1831:6, 1831:12, 1831:14, 1831:17, 1831:21, 1831:22, 1831:25, 1832:11, 1832:15, 1832:18, 1833:2, 1834:12, 1834:14, 1836:3, 1838:10, 1838:12, 1850:1, 1850:12, 1851:10, 1851:22, 1851:24, 1852:20, 1854:8, 1854:23, 1861:3, 1861:4, 1862:7, 1863:19, 1864:12, 1865:3, 1865:5, 1867:1, 1867:4, 1867:15, 1875:15, 1879:21, 1880:11, 1881:20, 1914:19, 1914:20, 1914:22, 1915:1, 1915:4, 1915:8, 1915:12, 1915:25, 1918:9, 1918:13, 1918:14, 1918:17, 1918:19, 1918:24, 1924:21, 1925:7, 1928:6, 1931:21, 1934:4, 1940:13, 1948:12, 1948:13, 1958:24, 1959:4 Skadden's [3] - 1851:13, 1916:3 skill [1] - 1846:7 SL [1] - 1930:20 slightly [1] - 1840:21 small [3] - 1815:4, 1822:25, 1934:14 sneaking [1] - 1844:5 snippets [1] - 1949:6 socialized [2] - 1947:13, 1947:14 soldier [1] - 1819:16 solicit [1] - 1943:21 soliciting [1] - 1916:21 someone [2] - 1845:9, 1900:17 sometime [1] - 1943:14 sometimes [6] - 1837:8, 1844:9, 1885:16, 1895:22, 1939:4 somewhere [1] - 1941:16 Sorry [1] - 1929:12 sorry [21] - 1819:9, 1820:9, 1821:21, 1840:14, 1847:4, 1853:13, 1858:8, 1858:20, 1858:21, 1869:3, 1877:14, 1891:15, 1891:20, 1897:25, 1912:12, 1919:17, 1926:23, 1942:8, 1942:18, 1945:19 sort [11] - 1815:20, 1818:23, 1827:12, 1832:9, 1837:16, 1844:5, 1876:20, 1877:4, 1882:20, 1920:3, 1933:10 sorts [1] - 1925:15 sound [1] - 1957:23 sounds [1] - 1905:5 source [1] - 1896:24 space [1] - 1840:19 SPAEDER [2] - 1801:22, 1802:2 span [1] - 1813:14 speaking [3] - 1818:3, 1853:16, 1887:7 spearheading [1] - 1865:1 Special [3] - 1824:17, 1824:24, 1894:22 1985 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 187 of 285 specialist [1] - 1803:18 specific [20] - 1812:13, 1834:13, 1839:16, 1840:22, 1850:8, 1855:21, 1857:7, 1866:16, 1869:17, 1887:13, 1898:25, 1912:1, 1912:18, 1930:13, 1930:14, 1936:8, 1944:18, 1944:20, 1945:12, 1950:1 specifically [20] - 1830:14, 1838:23, 1849:15, 1850:18, 1851:3, 1851:14, 1857:8, 1861:11, 1862:20, 1863:3, 1864:3, 1864:14, 1879:11, 1902:12, 1912:8, 1923:2, 1926:5, 1929:8, 1934:6, 1944:3 specificity [1] - 1935:13 specifics [2] - 1819:18, 1823:14 specified [1] - 1828:13 speculating [1] - 1882:2 spell [1] - 1812:7 spend [1] - 1899:21 sphere [2] - 1864:16 spite [2] - 1920:3, 1946:24 staff [2] - 1879:1, 1931:1 stage [1] - 1935:12 stages [1] - 1900:5 stakeholders [1] - 1935:7 stand [3] - 1804:5, 1830:10, 1879:21 stand-in [1] - 1879:21 standards [1] - 1859:19 standpoint [1] - 1891:5 Stanley [2] - 1911:13, 1911:15 start [2] - 1810:22, 1880:23 started [5] - 1832:9, 1832:14, 1834:1, 1904:20 starting [1] - 1877:14 starts [2] - 1846:3, 1957:11 Statement [5] - 1897:10, 1897:23, 1901:19, 1901:20, 1902:9 statement [23] - 1819:3, 1819:7, 1819:12, 1824:17, 1824:23, 1842:12, 1844:7, 1872:22, 1890:17, 1894:19, 1894:21, 1906:19, 1912:19, 1940:12, 1940:13, 1955:21, 1956:3, 1956:5, 1957:10, 1957:13, 1957:22 statements [4] - 1819:2, 1837:24, 1948:24, 1955:22 states [2] - 1896:20, 1958:7 STATES [2] - 1801:1, 1801:10 States [25] - 1801:3, 1802:8, 1803:1, 1803:11, 1803:17, 1813:22, 1814:16, 1816:16, 1822:17, 1824:12, 1825:13, 1834:12, 1834:13, 1841:14, 1841:24, 1863:22, 1870:9, 1892:22, 1898:3, 1917:13, 1917:22, 1917:23, 1940:20, 1945:8, 1953:25 statue [1] - 1894:6 stature [1] - 1822:6 status [1] - 1849:25 statutes [2] - 1894:16, 1897:14 Statutory [1] - 1893:25 stay [1] - 1948:13 stayed [1] - 1932:15 Stefan [1] - 1861:20 stenograph [1] - 1961:7 step [1] - 1804:11 steps [1] - 1944:16 Steven [5] - 1920:22, 1921:22, 1922:22, 1923:18, 1951:14 steven [1] - 1922:7 still [15] - 1805:6, 1817:3, 1818:16, 1869:6, 1873:9, 1893:5, 1916:17, 1936:16, 1938:15, 1946:1, 1946:9, 1950:12, 1950:20, 1951:14, 1952:25 sting [1] - 1875:4 stop [1] - 1937:8 stopgap [1] - 1881:20 story [8] - 1841:6, 1843:1, 1865:9, 1871:17, 1871:18, 1871:19, 1933:19, 1933:20 strategic [4] - 1834:15, 1836:10, 1846:7, 1864:21 strategically [1] - 1867:15 strategies [1] - 1924:3 strategy [24] - 1823:6, 1840:20, 1840:22, 1840:24, 1846:11, 1846:13, 1851:8, 1857:5, 1865:8, 1869:7, 1869:10, 1888:5, 1889:22, 1889:24, 1889:25, 1890:5, 1890:7, 1891:1, 1924:14, 1926:19, 1928:12, 1929:19, 1930:10, 1945:14 straw [1] - 1921:16 Street [3] - 1801:14, 1801:22, 1802:2 stricken [1] - 1891:19 strike [5] - 1842:6, 1939:9, 1940:22, 1952:11, 1958:4 structure [2] - 1853:20, 1859:9 strung [1] - 1948:23 stuff [1] - 1902:7 stunned [1] - 1885:21 style [1] - 1936:2 subcontracted [1] - 1833:13 subject [8] - 1864:4, 1876:12, 1881:16, 1889:4, 1889:5, 1901:15, 1919:20, 1947:24 submit [1] - 1913:23 submitted [1] - 1908:24 subsequent [1] - 1867:17 subsequently [1] - 1908:23 substantial [1] - 1828:17 substituted [1] - 1903:25 success [3] - 1822:4, 1890:24, 1891:5 sufficient [1] - 1897:20 suggest [4] - 1820:11, 1826:10, 1867:23, 1950:25 suggested [2] - 1845:16, 1923:24 suggesting [3] - 1839:10, 1884:2, 1951:20 suggestion [1] - 1954:15 suit [2] - 1837:16, 1841:12 Suite [2] - 1801:23, 1802:3 summarize [1] - 1933:13 summary [1] - 1882:24 summer [2] - 1938:4, 1938:5 support [1] - 1897:15 supposed [3] - 1878:15, 1878:16, 1878:24 surely [1] - 1956:18 surface [1] - 1942:22 surveyed [1] - 1958:25 suspected [1] - 1953:3 sustain [1] - 1891:17 sustained [1] - 1914:16 sworn [1] - 1811:24 system [2] - 1822:14, 1936:2 T tabs [2] - 1882:20, 1883:2 target [1] - 1865:1 targeting [2] - 1816:11, 1889:22 task [6] - 1829:15, 1829:17, 1829:21, 1830:7, 1861:3, 1915:7 tasked [5] - 1831:5, 1835:10, 1867:2, 1880:6, 1882:24 tasks [4] - 1832:12, 1834:15, 1879:8, 1879:14 tax [31] - 1827:9, 1894:6, 1894:7, 1894:8, 1894:9, 1894:24, 1895:7, 1895:25, 1896:16, 1896:17, 1906:12, 1906:13, 1906:15, 1906:16, 1906:18, 1907:16, 1907:19, 1907:21, 1907:22, 1907:23, 1908:9, 1908:24, 1910:3, 1910:6, 1910:10, 1910:23, 1914:8 taxes [10] - 1827:9, 1906:13, 1907:13, 1907:22, 1907:25, 1908:8, 1908:17, 1909:21, 1914:11 taxpayer [1] - 1896:17 Taylor [4] - 1801:21, 1803:21, 1959:14, 1960:2 TAYLOR [3] - 1959:7, 1959:15, 1959:20 1986 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 188 of 285 team [7] - 1820:13, 1822:25, 1834:2, 1838:8, 1854:18, 1868:21, 1889:2 Team [1] - 1916:23 teams [2] - 1834:25, 1835:2 tear [1] - 1829:8 technically [1] - 1834:2 Telegraph [2] - 1889:15, 1890:16 television [2] - 1954:10, 1954:11 ten [6] - 1813:12, 1813:14, 1883:20, 1883:22, 1892:18, 1953:2 tend [1] - 1862:20 tense [1] - 1936:22 tension [1] - 1816:5 tentatively [2] - 1868:11, 1883:8 term [1] - 1913:14 terms [19] - 1814:20, 1815:11, 1834:4, 1838:22, 1839:23, 1847:7, 1850:25, 1855:8, 1855:17, 1860:8, 1866:13, 1867:14, 1867:16, 1870:20, 1921:6, 1921:7, 1949:24, 1954:4 testified [5] - 1811:25, 1819:6, 1819:23, 1825:16, 1852:21 testify [1] - 1821:22 testifying [2] - 1907:5, 1907:6 testimony [5] - 1852:4, 1874:2, 1874:15, 1932:6, 1958:3 thanked [1] - 1882:15 THE [206] - 1801:1, 1801:1, 1801:9, 1801:13, 1803:1, 1803:4, 1803:7, 1803:8, 1803:10, 1803:19, 1803:23, 1803:25, 1804:16, 1804:20, 1804:21, 1804:25, 1805:1, 1805:5, 1805:6, 1805:10, 1805:12, 1810:17, 1810:25, 1811:4, 1811:5, 1812:1, 1818:5, 1818:8, 1818:9, 1818:10, 1818:12, 1818:14, 1818:15, 1818:18, 1818:25, 1819:16, 1820:17, 1820:21, 1821:5, 1821:10, 1821:21, 1826:5, 1826:7, 1829:6, 1829:21, 1829:23, 1829:24, 1829:25, 1830:1, 1830:9, 1830:17, 1830:22, 1831:1, 1831:9, 1831:11, 1833:5, 1833:10, 1837:18, 1838:25, 1841:17, 1841:25, 1842:7, 1842:9, 1842:12, 1842:16, 1842:22, 1843:21, 1844:1, 1844:8, 1844:13, 1844:23, 1845:2, 1845:4, 1845:5, 1845:6, 1845:7, 1845:8, 1845:11, 1845:12, 1847:2, 1847:4, 1847:17, 1847:19, 1849:7, 1849:9, 1849:10, 1849:12, 1849:16, 1849:19, 1852:4, 1852:11, 1852:17, 1852:24, 1853:12, 1853:15, 1853:24, 1854:5, 1855:19, 1855:21, 1856:25, 1857:2, 1865:20, 1865:22, 1865:23, 1866:7, 1871:3, 1871:5, 1871:6, 1871:14, 1871:15, 1871:25, 1872:17, 1872:20, 1873:12, 1873:15, 1873:19, 1874:11, 1874:16, 1874:21, 1875:3, 1875:7, 1883:16, 1883:24, 1891:10, 1891:14, 1891:17, 1891:20, 1892:1, 1892:3, 1892:4, 1892:5, 1892:8, 1892:17, 1892:21, 1892:23, 1893:1, 1893:3, 1893:4, 1899:21, 1899:25, 1900:12, 1900:16, 1900:25, 1901:5, 1901:8, 1901:18, 1902:6, 1902:22, 1903:5, 1906:23, 1907:2, 1907:9, 1912:20, 1912:22, 1912:25, 1913:2, 1914:16, 1921:11, 1922:1, 1922:5, 1922:7, 1922:9, 1922:17, 1923:7, 1923:10, 1923:12, 1927:14, 1927:18, 1927:20, 1932:12, 1932:20, 1933:6, 1933:9, 1933:17, 1936:25, 1937:9, 1937:11, 1937:15, 1937:18, 1941:15, 1941:18, 1942:9, 1942:10, 1944:10, 1944:11, 1944:12, 1948:23, 1949:20, 1950:5, 1950:6, 1950:7, 1951:23, 1952:1, 1952:4, 1952:7, 1956:5, 1956:7, 1956:8, 1957:15, 1959:8, 1959:13, 1959:17, 1959:21, 1959:24, 1960:1, 1960:10 therefore [1] - 1817:2 they've [1] - 1852:22 thinking [2] - 1859:19, 1959:9 third [3] - 1857:23, 1917:3, 1929:2 third-party [2] - 1917:3, 1929:2 thoughts [1] - 1886:2 three [2] - 1816:1, 1850:8 throughout [1] - 1945:5 Thursday [2] - 1877:19, 1878:14 tie [1] - 1837:17 tier [1] - 1870:1 time-wise [1] - 1843:9 timeframe [1] - 1839:3 timing [2] - 1884:3, 1886:11 tipped [1] - 1911:7 Title [1] - 1907:14 title [1] - 1860:14 today [6] - 1837:13, 1866:11, 1867:22, 1868:6, 1893:21, 1905:1 together [9] - 1882:24, 1910:7, 1917:17, 1921:17, 1928:12, 1931:5, 1947:19, 1948:23, 1955:2 tomorrow [3] - 1881:25, 1882:8, 1887:20 took [12] - 1833:20, 1834:3, 1846:23, 1847:10, 1848:16, 1856:22, 1857:18, 1860:18, 1867:17, 1909:6, 1910:16, 1929:10 top [13] - 1828:16, 1847:16, 1854:15, 1856:24, 1857:4, 1864:23, 1867:8, 1886:23, 1887:16, 1919:17, 1926:22, 1930:17, 1939:8 topic [2] - 1833:6, 1840:21 topics [3] - 1840:9, 1847:6, 1848:14 total [5] - 1837:8, 1908:6, 1908:22, 1917:22, 1953:5 tough [2] - 1840:16, 1872:5 tour [1] - 1941:25 toward [1] - 1958:17 town [1] - 1941:3 tracing [1] - 1919:20 trading [1] - 1911:3 transcribed [1] - 1805:7 Transcript [1] - 1801:5 transcript [3] - 1810:17, 1961:6, 1961:7 TRANSCRIPT [1] - 1801:8 transfer [3] - 1829:17, 1829:22, 1831:13 transfers [1] - 1910:19 transit [2] - 1861:17, 1861:25 translation [1] - 1860:5 transpired [1] - 1823:15 travel [2] - 1814:6, 1861:14 trial [25] - 1816:2, 1817:12, 1825:16, 1832:4, 1832:11, 1858:2, 1859:14, 1859:23, 1859:24, 1874:21, 1875:1, 1925:21, 1926:6, 1926:25, 1927:11, 1928:22, 1928:25, 1931:13, 1941:3, 1946:2, 1950:13, 1957:2, 1958:17, 1958:25, 1959:5 TRIAL [2] - 1801:4, 1801:8 trials [1] - 1825:14 tried [4] - 1856:6, 1873:11, 1874:2, 1893:8 trip [2] - 1887:4, 1940:16 true [10] - 1845:11, 1873:11, 1874:4, 1874:6, 1903:14, 1906:20, 1957:13, 1961:6, 1961:7 Trump [3] - 1913:17, 1913:24, 1987 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 189 of 285 1914:1 truth [7] - 1819:3, 1825:12, 1826:14, 1829:9, 1842:13, 1853:7, 1853:16 truthful [4] - 1829:4, 1902:3, 1955:21, 1956:2 truthfully [2] - 1903:4, 1903:9 truthfulness [1] - 1902:21 try [10] - 1820:4, 1844:17, 1844:23, 1862:6, 1884:5, 1884:8, 1892:13, 1907:7, 1922:19, 1927:21 trying [24] - 1820:11, 1821:3, 1821:4, 1833:14, 1835:23, 1840:7, 1844:3, 1844:8, 1844:17, 1852:14, 1853:22, 1861:13, 1885:18, 1900:17, 1906:25, 1912:19, 1912:21, 1924:18, 1927:8, 1930:9, 1937:2, 1938:5, 1948:7, 1958:16 tug [1] - 1815:13 turn [6] - 1897:4, 1920:8, 1938:24, 1940:14, 1944:22, 1954:25 turning [1] - 1907:18 TV [2] - 1954:8, 1954:9 two [29] - 1813:19, 1816:16, 1817:21, 1822:1, 1822:2, 1826:2, 1834:13, 1835:4, 1836:9, 1836:11, 1859:5, 1864:2, 1864:15, 1865:16, 1870:21, 1884:11, 1889:14, 1904:25, 1917:21, 1917:23, 1917:25, 1932:15, 1937:17, 1943:24, 1952:12, 1958:16, 1958:19, 1959:11, 1959:18 Tymoshenko [17] - 1817:12, 1817:13, 1831:23, 1832:4, 1832:11, 1847:7, 1857:4, 1859:5, 1859:17, 1873:6, 1875:1, 1924:19, 1925:4, 1931:15, 1941:2, 1956:24, 1958:20 Tymoshenko's [1] - 1925:8 type [2] - 1813:17, 1857:1 types [1] - 1905:20 typically [3] - 1823:3, 1841:4, 1939:23 typing [2] - 1856:25, 1857:2 U U.S [11] - 1801:13, 1801:17, 1834:25, 1835:2, 1835:4, 1864:2, 1865:1, 1865:2, 1865:8, 1869:10, 1934:23 U.S.C [3] - 1894:5, 1894:10, 1894:13 Ukraine [54] - 1814:3, 1814:6, 1814:8, 1814:12, 1814:13, 1815:8, 1815:9, 1815:10, 1815:17, 1815:20, 1815:25, 1816:8, 1816:13, 1816:18, 1817:6, 1817:8, 1822:10, 1822:11, 1822:13, 1823:1, 1835:14, 1850:22, 1850:24, 1850:25, 1859:19, 1862:5, 1864:24, 1864:25, 1867:14, 1870:19, 1871:23, 1880:5, 1880:8, 1880:16, 1889:11, 1889:19, 1896:1, 1898:13, 1898:24, 1900:3, 1905:15, 1911:23, 1911:25, 1912:16, 1912:18, 1915:13, 1915:16, 1916:4, 1918:15, 1925:11, 1928:15, 1956:25, 1957:8 Ukraine's [3] - 1865:2, 1888:18, 1930:25 Ukrainian [8] - 1822:13, 1831:13, 1833:11, 1899:5, 1901:11, 1926:7, 1926:8, 1941:8 ultimately [9] - 1828:25, 1833:17, 1833:21, 1834:7, 1834:10, 1841:13, 1868:10, 1888:9, 1888:12 um-hum [2] - 1846:16, 1884:24 Um-hum [4] - 1814:13, 1815:9, 1831:11, 1936:20 under [18] - 1824:9, 1825:10, 1826:13, 1826:15, 1826:19, 1833:13, 1833:14, 1860:14, 1878:12, 1893:6, 1903:16, 1904:11, 1904:17, 1905:8, 1906:6, 1913:16, 1913:20, 1936:2 understood [6] - 1819:4, 1821:22, 1896:10, 1898:2, 1947:21, 1957:19 unemployed [4] - 1813:5, 1823:17, 1823:18, 1823:20 unemployment [1] - 1823:16 Union [9] - 1815:10, 1815:18, 1815:22, 1816:9, 1861:21, 1880:6, 1880:9, 1880:16, 1925:25 Unit [4] - 1900:9, 1901:3, 1901:10, 1903:3 UNITED [2] - 1801:1, 1801:10 United [25] - 1801:3, 1802:8, 1803:1, 1803:11, 1803:17, 1813:22, 1814:16, 1816:16, 1822:17, 1824:12, 1825:13, 1834:12, 1834:13, 1841:14, 1841:24, 1863:22, 1870:9, 1892:22, 1898:3, 1917:13, 1917:22, 1917:23, 1940:20, 1945:8, 1953:25 University [1] - 1812:22 unless [1] - 1830:14 unofficially [1] - 1915:4 unpaid [1] - 1907:22 unreleased [1] - 1938:16 up [43] - 1813:20, 1820:15, 1824:22, 1824:25, 1829:8, 1830:13, 1834:4, 1836:10, 1836:21, 1840:3, 1840:6, 1840:10, 1842:10, 1843:8, 1844:4, 1849:14, 1851:12, 1851:19, 1852:24, 1852:25, 1853:24, 1857:1, 1859:22, 1860:23, 1861:4, 1861:6, 1861:23, 1868:22, 1881:11, 1893:16, 1893:24, 1897:2, 1897:6, 1902:7, 1902:8, 1919:9, 1924:10, 1931:10, 1932:20, 1933:10, 1936:14, 1938:6, 1956:21 upcoming [2] - 1832:6, 1832:7 update [5] - 1849:25, 1857:10, 1881:17, 1889:7, 1889:11 Update [1] - 1881:16 updated [7] - 1847:10, 1847:12, 1862:21, 1883:5, 1884:15, 1889:3, 1890:21 updates [1] - 1889:1 upper [1] - 1931:10 usual [1] - 1883:18 V valid [5] - 1927:1, 1928:22, 1931:14, 1946:2, 1950:13 van [24] - 1832:21, 1838:11, 1861:4, 1879:25, 1880:1, 1880:17, 1881:14, 1882:14, 1882:17, 1886:25, 1887:4, 1887:6, 1919:2, 1929:14, 1942:14, 1946:16, 1946:19, 1946:21, 1946:24, 1947:11, 1947:21, 1948:1, 1948:8, 1949:7 various [8] - 1814:14, 1814:17, 1814:23, 1816:3, 1817:14, 1823:4, 1898:16, 1912:4 verify [1] - 1912:10 Veritas [7] - 1924:14, 1924:17, 1924:18, 1924:20, 1924:25, 1925:3, 1938:20 version [3] - 1931:6, 1945:14, 1954:19 versions [2] - 1940:1, 1954:22 vetted [3] - 1832:16, 1865:10, 1874:24 via [3] - 1859:17, 1890:6, 1890:7 View [1] - 1831:18 view [1] - 1885:23 viewed [5] - 1817:24, 1822:1, 1851:15, 1877:1, 1891:3 views [2] - 1818:4, 1852:16 Viktor [1] - 1816:20 1988 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 190 of 285 Vin [1] - 1866:24 violate [4] - 1820:6, 1894:5, 1894:15, 1907:13 violations [1] - 1897:4 Virginia [4] - 1812:14, 1813:1, 1903:21, 1904:1 vis-à-vis [1] - 1814:24 Visa [1] - 1911:20 visibility [1] - 1822:4 visiting [1] - 1935:16 vlasenko [1] - 1853:17 voice [1] - 1898:14 vs [1] - 1801:5 W wait [4] - 1833:5, 1885:25, 1888:5, 1919:17 waiting [3] - 1887:18, 1887:25, 1936:16 waive [1] - 1870:6 wants [3] - 1853:10, 1901:12, 1907:1 Warsaw [4] - 1881:25, 1882:18, 1887:2, 1887:4 Washington [12] - 1801:6, 1801:15, 1801:18, 1802:3, 1802:9, 1812:22, 1817:21, 1834:16, 1864:24, 1929:12, 1947:15, 1961:15 wearing [2] - 1837:15, 1837:16 Weber [2] - 1866:24, 1868:1 website [1] - 1861:3 Wednesday [1] - 1877:14 week [2] - 1861:8, 1943:9 weeks [2] - 1929:24, 1952:12 weight [1] - 1936:1 Weissmann [1] - 1912:6 west [3] - 1815:17, 1815:20, 1836:14 Western [9] - 1817:25, 1822:2, 1822:7, 1822:17, 1851:6, 1859:19, 1931:18, 1936:2, 1957:7 Western-oriented [1] - 1822:17 Western-style [1] - 1936:2 whole [2] - 1935:5, 1953:12 William [3] - 1801:20, 1801:21, 1812:21 willing [7] - 1855:13, 1855:20, 1855:21, 1862:23, 1862:24, 1888:5, 1890:12 willingly [1] - 1891:7 willingness [1] - 1855:17 wire [6] - 1829:17, 1829:22, 1831:5, 1831:11, 1910:18, 1915:8 wired [1] - 1830:22 wise [1] - 1843:9 wish [1] - 1935:19 witness [15] - 1802:13, 1804:5, 1810:24, 1811:20, 1811:24, 1818:3, 1820:12, 1830:10, 1844:9, 1844:10, 1857:21, 1859:6, 1892:9, 1907:1, 1960:11 WITNESS [31] - 1818:8, 1818:10, 1818:14, 1826:7, 1829:23, 1829:25, 1830:17, 1831:11, 1833:10, 1841:25, 1845:2, 1845:5, 1845:7, 1845:11, 1847:4, 1849:9, 1849:12, 1855:21, 1857:2, 1865:22, 1871:5, 1871:15, 1891:14, 1891:20, 1892:3, 1892:5, 1942:10, 1944:11, 1950:6, 1952:1, 1956:7 witness's [1] - 1899:24 witnesses [4] - 1819:23, 1852:21, 1859:5, 1874:22 [email protected] [1] - 1801:24 woman [2] - 1866:17, 1898:19 wondered [1] - 1883:18 wondering [1] - 1885:25 word [3] - 1912:8, 1912:11, 1912:14 words [3] - 1903:20, 1933:12 works [1] - 1834:3 world [7] - 1814:21, 1836:19, 1836:22, 1836:23, 1895:13, 1926:1, 1941:25 worth [1] - 1872:9 write [13] - 1818:7, 1828:3, 1835:19, 1843:14, 1857:14, 1871:17, 1871:18, 1872:5, 1878:13, 1910:18, 1930:5, 1949:2 writing [16] - 1831:22, 1839:16, 1871:19, 1880:6, 1922:21, 1923:4, 1923:5, 1923:8, 1923:9, 1923:10, 1923:11, 1923:15, 1923:16, 1923:21, 1955:10 written [10] - 1921:20, 1922:4, 1922:6, 1922:10, 1922:13, 1922:16, 1946:8, 1957:15, 1957:18 wrongfully [2] - 1925:13, 1925:14 wrote [3] - 1835:19, 1928:17, 1932:22 [email protected] [1] 1801:25 Y Yanukovych [5] - 1816:20, 1817:3, 1874:25, 1915:20, 1925:17 Yanukovych's [2] - 1816:22, 1816:23 year [4] - 1815:16, 1908:9, 1908:16, 1909:6 years [10] - 1812:11, 1813:2, 1813:12, 1813:14, 1815:3, 1824:22, 1824:25, 1826:2, 1908:5, 1908:6 yesterday [1] - 1804:2 York [30] - 1839:5, 1839:15, 1842:1, 1842:3, 1846:15, 1846:23, 1871:9, 1872:8, 1878:1, 1878:8, 1878:13, 1879:12, 1883:3, 1884:16, 1886:18, 1887:19, 1888:1, 1888:12, 1888:16, 1889:15, 1890:4, 1890:6, 1890:8, 1890:25, 1891:8, 1891:23, 1920:20, 1921:21, 1923:17, 1951:14 young [2] - 1815:25, 1822:15 yourself [9] - 1803:14, 1814:6, 1876:20, 1909:12, 1910:20, 1911:10, 1919:16, 1919:19, 1943:5 yourselves [2] - 1898:6, 1960:4 YT [1] - 1931:14 Yulia [7] - 1832:4, 1859:5, 1859:17, 1924:19, 1925:4, 1931:15, 1941:2 Z zoom [7] - 1825:5, 1834:20, 1848:6, 1848:8, 1860:11, 1862:12, 1867:7 ZUCKERMAN [2] - 1801:22, 1802:2 Zwaan [24] - 1832:21, 1838:11, 1861:4, 1879:25, 1880:1, 1880:17, 1881:14, 1882:14, 1882:17, 1886:25, 1887:4, 1887:6, 1919:2, 1929:14, 1942:14, 1946:16, 1946:19, 1946:21, 1946:24, 1947:11, 1947:21, 1948:1, 1948:8, 1949:7 1989 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 191 of 285 1991 1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA 2 3 4 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, v. 5 GREGORY B. CRAIG, 6 Defendant. ___________________________ 7 ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) Criminal Action No. 19-CR-125 JURY TRIAL - DAY 9 Afternoon Session Washington, D.C. August 22, 2019 8 9 10 TRANSCRIPT OF JURY TRIAL - AFTERNOON SESSION BEFORE THE HONORABLE AMY BERMAN JACKSON UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE 11 APPEARANCES: 12 For the Government: Fernando Campoamor-Sanchez, AUSA Molly Gulland Gaston, AUSA U.S. ATTORNEY'S OFFICE FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA 555 Fourth Street, NW Washington, DC 20530 -andJason Bradley Adam McCullough U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE 950 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW Washington, DC 20530 For the Defendant: Adam B. Abelson, Esq. William James Murphy, Esq. ZUCKERMAN SPAEDER, LLP 100 East Pratt Street Suite 2440 Baltimore, MD 21202 -andWilliam W. Taylor, III, Esq. Paula M. Junghans, Esq. ZUCKERMAN SPAEDER, LLP 1800 M Street, NW Suite 1000 Washington, DC 20036 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 PATRICIA A. KANESHIRO-MILLER, RMR, CRR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA 202-354-3243 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 192 of 285 1992 1 2 3 4 5 6 Court Reporter: PATRICIA A. KANESHIRO-MILLER, RMR, CRR U.S. Courthouse, Room 4700A 333 Constitution Avenue, NW Washington, D.C. 20001 (202) 354-3243 Proceedings reported by stenotype shorthand. Transcript produced by computer-aided transcription. 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 PATRICIA A. KANESHIRO-MILLER, RMR, CRR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA 202-354-3243 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 193 of 285 1993 1 E X A M I N A T I O N S 2 3 WITNESS RICHARD GATES DIRECT CROSS 1994 REDIRECT 2042 4 E X H I B I T S 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DEFENDANT EXHIBIT 418 PAGE 2016 RECROSS Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 194 of 285 1994 1 AFTERNOON SESSION 2 (2:03 P.M.) 3 THE COURT: 4 (Jury present) 5 THE COURT: 6 Mr. Gates, I want to remind you that you're still 7 All right. Let's bring the jury in. The jurors are all present. under oath. 8 You can be seated. 9 Ms. Junghans, you can resume. 10 MS. JUNGHANS: Thank you, Your Honor. 11 12 RICHARD GATES, having been duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 13 CROSS-EXAMINATION 14 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 15 Q. Mr. Gates, before we broke, we were talking about Exhibit 16 126, which I just want to go back to for a moment. 17 were looking at the portion where it discussed whether the 18 report stated there was no evidence of political motivation. 19 And we Now, if you look at the first page of the e-mail that 20 sent this to you, the first page of the document which was 21 the e-mail that sent this to you, you'll notice that 22 Mr. Hawker says to you, "We've provided answers even where we 23 do not know the facts." 24 25 Do you see that? A. Yes. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 195 of 285 1995 1 Q. And is that because at that point, if this was all still 2 hypothetical, what the report was going to say? 3 A. 4 the full report, so there were pieces of it that still had 5 not been filled in by Mr. Hawker because of that. 6 Q. 7 get the report; didn't you? I believe at that time we still had not seen a copy of Okay. But pretty much simultaneously with this, you did 8 Let's look at Exhibit 234, Government Exhibit 234. 9 This shows that on September the 12th, 2012, you were 10 forwarding the report to Mr. Hawker and he was, in turn, 11 forwarding it to Jon Aarons; correct? 12 A. Correct. 13 Q. Okay. 14 correct? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. This is the report -- 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. -- right? 19 And you have the paper document in front of you; So I take it you read it when you got it? 20 A. Not the entire report, no. 21 Q. Have you ever read the entire report? 22 A. Honestly, I have not read the entire report. 23 Q. I see. 24 have to read the report, wouldn't you, to know what the 25 report said? So in order to get the facts right, you would Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 196 of 285 1996 1 A. Mr. Hawker was preparing the detailed items that were 2 related to the previous attachments, so he was the one that 3 went through the report in more detail. 4 Q. Let's look at Exhibit 233. 5 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 6 MS. JUNGHANS: 7 I'm sorry. Government 233. Thank you. 8 9 Government 233? BY MS. JUNGHANS: Q. There is a lot of activity on September 12th, so this is 10 another e-mail from you to Mr. Hawker on September 12th, and 11 you appear to be forwarding comments from Mr. Manafort; 12 correct? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Okay. 15 messaging document. 16 e-mail, it says, "Project Veritas messaging and draft NR PJM 17 REV." 18 And if we turn to the -- and sending yet another If you look at the caption of the Does that mean Paul J. Manafort revisions? 19 A. Revisions, yes. 20 Q. Okay. 21 attached; right? 22 A. Yes, the MOJ QNA. 23 Q. Can you go to the next page, please, John. 24 25 And the same thing for the other document that is So, again, what this is is the messaging document -A. Yes. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 197 of 285 1997 1 Q. -- what we're going to say about this report. 2 that right? 3 A. I believe so, yes. 4 Q. Okay. 5 check to see whether the findings actually said these things? 6 A. 7 had a conclusion section in it, and we largely used that as 8 the basis for a lot of the messaging memos that we put out. 9 Q. And it summarizes the findings. Okay. Now, did you I believe -- yeah, we read the executive summary, which Okay. 10 And turn to the next page, please. And then you put together statements that various 11 interested parties might make about the report; correct? 12 A. Yes. 13 14 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: Objection to the form of the question. 15 MS. JUNGHANS: 16 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 17 Pardon? Objection to the form of the question. 18 THE COURT: All right. Well, this is still -- when 19 you say "you," was that your objection? 20 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 21 THE COURT: 22 Okay. Right. So are you talking about the group -- 23 MS. JUNGHANS: 24 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 25 Is Q. Yes, the group. You were working on statements that interested parties Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 198 of 285 1998 1 might make after the report was released? 2 A. 3 did the initial preparation of the statements. 4 Q. 5 statements? 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. This was a group project? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Okay. I had the occasion to edit the statements. Okay. Mr. Hawker And Mr. Manafort had occasion to edit the In this draft on this page, the proposed statement 10 for the Ministry of Justice was in the headline, "Independent 11 report concludes Tymoshenko trial was not politically 12 motivated." 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. You see that? 15 A. I do. 16 Q. Is that statement in the report? 17 A. That specific statement, no. 18 Jonathan created based off the information from the report. 19 MS. JUNGHANS: 20 counsel for one second, please? 21 THE COURT: 22 Excuse me. That was a headline that Can I just consult with Yes. (Counsel confer) 23 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 24 Q. Let's look at page -- it is pdf page 9, John, of Exhibit 25 234 that we were just looking at; 234, page 9. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 199 of 285 1999 1 2 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: whether -- 3 4 I'm confused as to MS. JUNGHANS: I apologize. There are so many iterations of this report. 5 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 6 Q. Exhibit 234, which is the one we just looked at that you 7 had on September 12th, okay, and if you look at page 9, it 8 deals with selective prosecution; right? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And what it says is -- 11 THE COURT: Wait. What are we quoting from? The 12 last document we were asking him about was the messaging 13 plan. This doesn't seem to be the messaging plan. 14 15 MS. JUNGHANS: No, Your Honor. This is the actual report. 16 THE COURT: Okay. Well, we first got the step of 17 directing his attention to the e-mail transmitting the report 18 and -- 19 MS. JUNGHANS: 20 THE COURT: 21 off track. I thought I had just done that. No, you missed it. Things got a little So let's go back. 22 MS. JUNGHANS: 23 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 24 Q. 25 paper form -- right? Thank you. Mr. Gates, Exhibit 234, which you have in front of you in Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 200 of 285 2000 1 A. Yes. 2 THE COURT: Defendant's Exhibit 234; correct. 3 MS. JUNGHANS: 4 THE COURT: 5 MS. JUNGHANS: No, Government's Exhibit 234. Okay. 6 Q. Shows that on December the 12th -- September the 12th, 7 2012 you had the full report, and you sent it to Mr. Hawker; 8 correct? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Okay. 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Okay. 13 this report -- and maybe before we do that, we should just 14 see how the report is -- let's back up for a second so 15 everybody can see how the report is organized. And then he sent it to Mr. Aarons? And if we turn to page 5, which is pdf page 9 of 16 So it has a cover page; right? 17 And then go to the next page, please. 18 It has a table of contents. 19 Go on to the next page, please. And then it 20 identifies several appendices that are attached to it. 21 Right? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Then it starts on page 1, which is pdf page 5, with the 24 executive summary; correct? 25 A. Yes. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 201 of 285 2001 1 Q. And the first number of bullet points are under the 2 heading of "Factual Conclusions." 3 facts related to Ukraine, etc.; right? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And then there is another page of factual conclusions; 6 correct? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And then if you go to -- at the bottom of what is page 2 9 of the report, it starts identifying the conclusions of the 10 report; correct? 11 A. Correct. 12 Q. Okay. 13 all just run through them. 14 15 Why don't we just so everybody is -- why don't we The first conclusion is the Court's opinion, and it says, "The Court -- 16 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 17 THE COURT: 18 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 19 20 And it talks about various Can we approach? Yes. Sorry. (At the bench) MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: The document was still a 21 draft, it is not the final report. 22 there to be any confusion that the conclusions in the 23 executive, whatever we're reading, are not from the final 24 report, they're from a draft report. 25 MS. JUNGHANS: So I don't just want We can make that clear, but they don't Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 202 of 285 2002 1 change. 2 3 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: don't. Well, maybe they I just want to be -- 4 5 Okay. THE COURT: We are now reading to him from the draft report that he had in hand as of the time of the plan -- 6 MS. JUNGHANS: 7 THE COURT: 8 Exactly. All right. (In open court) 9 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 10 Q. Just to be clear, Mr. Gates, this is the version that was 11 in existence as of September 12, 2012? 12 A. Correct. 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. Correct. 15 Q. Okay. 16 opinion -- I'm not going to read every word of this -- 17 "Although many facts were in sharp dispute and conflicting 18 evidence was offered on many issues, the Court, as finder of 19 fact, based its findings on evidence before the Court and, in 20 some instances, on inferences that the Court drew from that 21 evidence." 22 So the first conclusion is that the Court's Correct? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Okay. 25 And the version that you were messaging about? Let's go down to the second conclusion. "Legal adequacy of the charges under Ukrainian law." Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 203 of 285 2003 1 And it says, "The parties vigorously disputed what was in 2 issue. 3 law -- the legal requirements necessary to satisfy the 4 elements of the statutory offense -- is beyond the scope of 5 our assignment and beyond our expertise." 6 And then it goes on to say, "This issue of Ukrainian So you understood from that conclusion that Skadden 7 was not undertaking to render an opinion about whether 8 Ms. Tymoshenko was or was not guilty under Ukrainian law? 9 A. That is correct. 10 Q. Then, the third conclusion deals with the opportunity to 11 prepare a defense, and that was an issue Ms. Tymoshenko had 12 complained about; correct? 13 A. Correct. 14 Q. Okay. 15 "We believe that, looking at this case, most American trial 16 courts would have given the defendant more time to prepare 17 her defense. 18 record, an American appellate court would find a due process 19 violation and reverse the conviction." 20 21 And again, it says in the center of the paragraph, It is unlikely, however, that based on this Everybody can read it eventually. conclusion two; right? 22 THE COURT: 23 MS. JUNGHANS: 24 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 25 But that was Q. Three. Three. Thank you. Can you go to the next one, please, John. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 204 of 285 2004 1 And then the next issue dealt with the selection of 2 the judge and dealt with Ms. Tymoshenko's allegation, in 3 essence, that Mr. Yanukovych had hand-picked the judge; 4 right? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Okay. 7 established that the judge's experience, tenure, or selection 8 violated Western standards of fairness -- 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. -- right? And it said that "The report concluded she has not 11 Okay. Let's go to the next one. 12 Jury request. It goes on -- if I may summarize, even 13 though she would have liked to have had a jury, juries are 14 not customarily used in Ukraine, not a violation of due 15 process. 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Okay. 18 Correct? And let's go to the next one. Her courtroom behavior. And it describes that 19 Ms. Tymoshenko refused to acknowledge the Court's legitimacy 20 and engaged in conduct that was disrespectful. 21 tactics made management of the trial substantially more 22 difficult. 23 discussed in more detail. 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Then, can you go to the next one, please. And that the And then it points you to the pages where that is Right? Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 205 of 285 2005 1 Removal from the courtroom. This goes to her 2 complaint that she was put out of the room during certain 3 portions of the trial. 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Then it says, "Neither she nor her counsel raised any 6 objection to the admission of the document, and it does not 7 appear that she suffered any prejudice." 8 THE COURT: 9 MS. JUNGHANS: 10 11 Right? Well, wait. All right. That doesn't quite -- As a result of the absence. And one can find more details on that at the pages that are cited? 12 Correct? THE COURT: Well, you read the first sentence that 13 there were two removals. 14 characterize what is sitting here, the conclusion is that the 15 July 6 removal doesn't raise fairness concerns, the 15th was 16 more troubling, but she didn't suffer any prejudice as a 17 result. 18 19 MS. JUNGHANS: Yes, Your Honor. Thank you, Your Honor. 20 THE COURT: 21 All right. 22 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 23 And I think just to fairly Q. Is that a fair summary? Can you go to the next one, please. 24 That deals with her detention. And this goes to the 25 fact that she was put in jail during her trial. Correct? Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 206 of 285 2006 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Okay. 3 Western standards, "We find the decision to detain Tymoshenko 4 for the entire balance of her trial and after the trial had 5 concluded -- until sentencing -- without adequate 6 justification or review raises concerns about whether she was 7 inappropriately deprived of her liberty prior to her 8 conviction." 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 And the conclusion that is expressed here, under Right? A. Yes. MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: Objection, Your Honor. The conclusion or the summary is not entirely accurate. THE COURT: I'm sorry. You want to read the whole paragraph? MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: Yes, I think it would be better to just have it read. MS. JUNGHANS: Your Honor, I'm certainly not adverse, 18 but I'm trying not to bore everybody by standing here and 19 reading the whole thing. 20 report is organized. 21 THE COURT: I'm just trying to present how the Well, you're now presenting the actual 22 content of the report so you can ask him if the summary of 23 the report was accurate, so -- 24 MS. JUNGHANS: 25 last one. Well, I'm trying to get to just the Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 207 of 285 2007 1 2 THE COURT: of them. All right. MS. JUNGHANS: 4 THE COURT: I'm happy to read it. You might was well just read it rather 5 than talking about it. 6 MS. JUNGHANS: 7 THE COURT: 8 BY MS. JUNGHANS: Q. And we'll get to all But I think it is fair that this one -- 3 9 I know. Sure. I would be faster. So what this conclusion says, Mr. Gates, is, under the 10 subject of "detention," "Tymoshenko claims that the Court's 11 decision to incarcerate her in a detention 12 facility -- beginning on August 5 and continuing through her 13 sentencing -- was an open-ended detention unjustified by the 14 facts. 15 merited a summary contempt finding under Western standards. 16 The Court's separate suggestion that she presented a flight 17 risk is problematic, however, on the record of this case. 18 Taking steps to maintain order in the courtroom is 19 justifiable. 20 the Court did in this case, is an accepted but rarely used 21 practice in Western courts. 22 that the decision to detain Tymoshenko for the entire balance 23 of her trial and after the trial had concluded -- until 24 sentencing -- without adequate justification or review raises 25 concerns about whether she was inappropriately deprived of Tymoshenko's courtroom behavior would likely have Using detention to achieve that objective, as Under Western standards, we find Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 208 of 285 2008 1 her liberty prior to her conviction." 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Okay. 4 -- well, actually not the last. 5 representation by counsel. 6 read the whole thing. 7 And then last, the last conclusion deals with The next one deals with And so we're not confused, I'll "Tymoshenko argues that the Court violated her right 8 to adequate representation by examining witnesses in the 9 absence of defense counsel and by failing to adjourn the 10 proceedings to allow her to acquire new legal representation. 11 Ukrainian law, as well as European and Western legal 12 standards, requires that a defendant who wishes to be 13 represented by counsel during trial must be able to exercise 14 that right. 15 examination of witnesses without representation by counsel 16 would almost certainly be viewed as a violation of the right 17 to assistance of counsel." 18 Correct? Under Western standards, the continued 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And then the next one, presentation of defense. "During 21 the investigation stage of the proceeding, Tymoshenko 22 identified a large number of witnesses that she asked to be 23 interviewed. 24 chief investigator denied her request. 25 identified other witnesses and asked that they be permitted Her request was found to be untimely, and the During the trial, she Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 209 of 285 2009 1 to testify. 2 these witnesses to testify. 3 Kireyev's refusal undermined her ability to present her 4 defense. 5 that the Court's decision not to call certain defense 6 witnesses compromised Tymoshenko's ability to present a 7 defense." 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. All right. 10 Judge Kireyev refused to permit all but two of Tymoshenko argues that Judge Under Western standards of fairness, we believe And then last, selective prosecution. Before we read that, you've already told us that this 11 question of selective or political prosecution was the most 12 important issue to your client, the Ministry of Justice. 13 A. That's correct. 14 Q. Okay. 15 her prosecution was a politically motivated reprisal 16 undertaken in order to silence a political opponent of the 17 ruling regime. 18 government, unsuccessful presidential candidate, and leader 19 of the opposition merits close scrutiny in all respects. 20 this report -- could you highlight this part please, John -- 21 "In this report, we do not opine about whether the 22 prosecution was politically motivated or driven by an 23 improper political objective -- i.e., to remove her from 24 political life in Ukraine in the future. 25 the record of the case and established precedent, we do And what it says is, "Tymoshenko has alleged that The prosecution of a former head of In Instead, based on Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 210 of 285 2010 1 address the narrow doctrine of selective prosecution. 2 Tymoshenko has not provided specific evidence of political 3 motivation that would be sufficient to overturn her 4 conviction under American standards." 5 Right? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Okay. 8 summary in hand at September 12, 2012, the messaging document 9 that was being prepared -- John, can you go back to 233, Now, having this report with this executive 10 please, on page 3 -- says in the headline, "Independent 11 report concludes Tymoshenko trial was not politically 12 motivated." 13 Do you see that? 14 A. I do. 15 Q. That was not the conclusion of the Skadden Report; was 16 it? 17 A. 18 from the report. 19 Q. That was Mr. Hawker's interpretation of the conclusion Well, that wasn't my question, sir. 20 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 21 THE COURT: Objection. You're asking him about whether something 22 someone else said is, in his judgment, the characterization 23 of something as if it is a yes-or-no fact question. 24 the question -- he didn't write it. 25 what's your question. So is It's in the plan. So Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 211 of 285 2011 1 MS. JUNGHANS: Actually, Your Honor, he forwarded 2 this as a revised version from -- let me clarify -- from 3 yourself and Mr. Manafort? 4 5 THE WITNESS: If that's at the previous e-mail you showed me -- 6 MS. JUNGHANS: If you look at the first page. 7 you can put that up again, please. 8 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 9 Q. John, So this is a document from you to Hawker, not from Hawker 10 to you. 11 A. 12 provided to us first because that would reflect why there are 13 edits and revisions. 14 Q. 15 characterization of the conclusion that we just read from the 16 report? 17 A. Based on the information at the time, yes, I do. 18 Q. You think saying the independent report concludes it was 19 not politically motivated is the same as what I just read 20 from the -- 21 22 23 24 25 But this is based off of a document that Mr. Hawker Okay. So do you think this is an accurate MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: question. Objection to the form of the Asked and answered. MS. JUNGHANS: It would be nice if I could get my question out. MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: Objection. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 212 of 285 2012 1 THE COURT: Well, we have all been doing that. Let's 2 try not to snipe at each other. 3 working very hard here and tensions are high. 4 complicated matter. 5 come to the bench, but if we're going to argue at each other, 6 we're going to have to do that, and I think that would 7 frustrate everybody in the courtroom. 8 9 I realize everybody is This is a And I'm trying to avoid having everybody So you asked him what he thought. You can ask another question, but you can't argue with him. 10 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 11 Q. Well, my question was: 12 characterization of what we just read from the conclusions of 13 the report? 14 A. And yes, I commented yes, I do believe that. 15 Q. Okay. 16 Do you think that is an accurate Now, let's turn to Defendant's Exhibit 123. If you could blow up the top of it, please, John. 17 No, actually, scroll down to the lower part of the page, 18 please. 19 20 So this is an e-mail from Mr. Hawker to you, also September 12, 2006, sending you a control grid -- 21 MR. TAYLOR: 22 MS. JUNGHANS: 23 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 24 Q. Do you see that? 25 A. Yes. 2012. Yes, September 12, 2012. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 213 of 285 2013 1 Q. And you were exchanging these documents back and forth a 2 lot during this period of time; were you not? 3 A. Correct. 4 Q. Okay. 5 sets out what everybody is going to do on launch date? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. So if we turn to the first page of what is 8 attached -- first of all, you will note that it says in the 9 upper left-hand corner, "Draft document for consideration of And the control grid is the chart that sort of 10 legal counsel." 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Who did you understand that to be? 13 A. I could guess, but I don't recall. 14 Q. Okay. 15 A. Not in the e-mail you just showed me. 16 Q. And generally speaking, at this time, you were not 17 providing these grids to Mr. Craig? 18 A. I was not. 19 Q. Now, if you turn to what is identified as page DX 123-3, 20 which is again the list of who is going to do what, and you 21 look at the line that is line 14 -- 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. -- it refers to the project team and then -- who's the 24 project team? 25 A. Mr. Hawker did not send this to Mr. Craig here? It was sent to me. That was not one of my responsibilities. The project team would have been Mr. Hawker's team on the Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 214 of 285 2014 1 ground. 2 Q. GC, that is Mr. Craig? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. SKA, that's Skadden; right? 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. And it says, "Engagement with Bloomberg." 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. No David Sanger? 9 A. Correct. 10 Q. Okay. 11 more, Mr. Craig talking to various officials; right? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And the last page, it repeats the Greg Craig travel log; 14 right? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Okay. 17 to take any of these trips that are identified here? 18 A. That is correct. 19 Q. Now, at the same time -- same day -- I guess later in the 20 day -- can we have Defendant's Exhibit 125. 21 And then it goes on to the next page, and we have You had not heard from Mr. Craig that he was going And this is yet another version from Mr. Hawker to 22 you. Why were you asking him for so many versions? 23 A. 24 going to. 25 now, it was a cut-down version because it was going to So we had different audiences that these documents were In reference to the document you're just citing Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 215 of 285 2015 1 different stakeholders who would not have paid attention to 2 the level of detail that we had in the master grid. 3 Q. 4 about? 5 A. 6 could have been somebody outside the government. 7 depends on at the time who Mr. Manafort requested the 8 document go to. 9 Q. And when you refer to a stakeholder, who are you talking It could have been somebody inside the government. Okay. It It all And do you have an idea for whom this one, 10 particular version would have been intended since it is the 11 cut-down version? 12 A. 13 referenced earlier was the chief of staff to the President. 14 Q. 15 the client all the great stuff that it was doing? 16 A. That was the general idea, yes. 17 Q. And all the great stuff you were going to get Mr. Craig 18 to do? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. But you had had no assurances from Mr. Craig that he was 21 going to do them? 22 A. I had none, that's correct. 23 Q. Now, let's turn to what has been marked as Defendant's 24 Exhibit 418. 25 I believe this one went to Mr. Lyovochkin, who I Okay. So the purpose of this was for your firm to tell Now, Mr. Gates this is a document dated September 12, Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 216 of 285 2016 1 2012. 2 A. 3 Mr. Hawker, and I, in turn, sent it to Mr. van der Zwaan. 4 5 Do you recognize it? Yes. I think it was a document forwarded to me by MS. JUNGHANS: Your Honor, I move the admission of Defendant's Exhibit 418. 6 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: No objection. 7 THE COURT: It will be admitted. 8 All right. (Defendant 418 admitted in evidence) 9 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 10 Q. 11 is something you cut and pasted from an e-mail from 12 Mr. Hawker; right? 13 And what this is, Mr. Gates, is the lower portion of it Everything under "FYI"? 14 A. Yes, I believe so. 15 Q. Can you blow that up, please, John. 16 And what this is is a sort of form of an article 17 about the report that Mr. Hawker had written, expressing what 18 he called the worst-case scenario? 19 20 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: Object to the form of the question. 21 THE COURT: 22 You can answer it if you recall. 23 THE WITNESS: 24 25 I think that is a fair question. Give me one second. Let me look at this, please. MS. JUNGHANS: Well, let me rephrase it a little Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 217 of 285 2017 1 different -- 2 THE WITNESS: Yes, I was going to say, could you 3 repeat the question -- 4 MS. JUNGHANS: 5 BY MS. JUNGHANS: Let me phrase it a little differently. 6 Q. Actually, if you look at the caption of the article -- or 7 the caption of the e-mail, it says, "How a journalist will 8 see the report" -- 9 A. Uh-huh. 10 Q. -- right? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. So this was Mr. Hawker's take -- 13 A. Exactly. 14 Q. -- on how he thought a journalist would see the report? 15 A. It was one iteration of an idea that Mr. Hawker thought a 16 reporter could react to the Skadden effort, that's correct. 17 Q. 18 start off with, was "Ukraine violated former Prime Minister's 19 rights, according to Ukraine's own lawyer"? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. That's not the headline you were looking for? 22 A. No. 23 Q. Well, we will get to that. And the headline he thought that a reporter might issue, But this also never appeared as the headline. 24 Let's turn to Defendant's Exhibit 134. 25 Now, at this point, you thought that the release of Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 218 of 285 2018 1 the report was imminent; right? 2 A. 3 very soon. 4 Q. 5 pretty significantly finished; wasn't it? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Okay. 8 folks that as far as they were concerned it was finished; 9 right? As of September 18th, yes, we thought it was going to be Okay. And you had a version of the report that was And in fact, you had been told by the Skadden 10 A. I believe that was Mr. Craig's representation, yes. 11 Q. Okay. 12 Ministry of Justice to get it to be changed yet again; 13 correct? 14 A. That is correct. 15 Q. If we look at Defendant's Exhibit 134, that is exactly 16 what this is, isn't it? But nevertheless, there were efforts by the 17 John, could you enlarge the lower part. Thank you. 18 So this is an e-mail from you to Mr. Craig saying, 19 "Call me with questions." 20 what you're doing here is sending comments that Mr. Manafort 21 wrote but for whatever reason he asked you to send? 22 A. 23 turn, he asked me to forward it to Mr. Craig. 24 Q. 25 top -- "I thought we had dealt with all of the concerns that Yes. Okay. And then is it fair to say that It is an e-mail from Mr. Manafort to me, which, in And Mr. Craig's response was -- if you go to the Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 219 of 285 2019 1 had been raised." Right? 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. And the concerns were those of BG; correct? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. BG was? 6 A. That referred to the President of Ukraine. 7 Q. BG is short for Big Guy? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Nevertheless, did Mr. Craig consent to consider these 10 comments? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Okay. 13 convening the meeting at the Harvard Club; wasn't it? 14 A. It was. 15 Q. Okay. 16 identified it, I think, as the agenda and a batch of other 17 documents circulated prior to the meeting at the Harvard 18 Club. 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Okay. And you have that in paper form in your binder? 21 A. I do. What is the exhibit number again? 22 Q. It is Defendant's Exhibit 254. And in fact, that was one of the purposes for If we go to Government's Exhibit 254, you have 23 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 24 MS. JUNGHANS: 25 THE WITNESS: Government's. Government's exhibit. Okay. I have it. I apologize. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 220 of 285 2020 1 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 2 Q. It is actually about 75 pages' worth of stuff; isn't it? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Pardon? 5 A. It is a rather large document. 6 Q. Yes. 7 Do you recall receiving it? 8 A. I do. 9 Q. Do you recall what time you got it? 10 A. I do not. 11 Q. Okay. 12 was actually sent at 4:11 or not; do you? 13 A. 14 computer being on UK time, I would gather that that was 15 4 a.m. UK time at the time he sent it. 16 Q. So it is probably more like midnight or so? 17 A. About, yes. 18 Q. And so you didn't have a conversation with Mr. Craig 19 about whether he had the opportunity to read this thing prior 20 to the Harvard Club meeting? 21 A. No, I did not. 22 Q. Okay. 23 as part of the meeting; was it? 24 A. To my recollection, it was not. 25 Q. It was not? It is a rather large document. And do you recall what time -- well, strike that. Well, it says 4:11 a.m. You don't know whether it That is actually from Mr. Hawker to me, so based on his And the whole master control grid was not reviewed Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 221 of 285 2021 1 A. Correct. 2 3 THE COURT: Wasn't there a stipulation about what time it was actually sent? 4 MR. MURPHY: 5 THE COURT: 6 MR. MURPHY: 7 THE COURT: 8 MR. MURPHY: 9 THE COURT: 10 11:11, Your Honor. 11:11 -p.m., Saturday night. U.S. time or Hawker's time? 11:11 Saturday night, New York time. Okay. Thank you. BY MS. JUNGHANS: 11 Q. So the master control grid that is attached to this, if 12 you could, John, go over to the -- if you could go to page 3 13 of the document, which is page 5 of the pdf. 14 15 It repeats -- it repeats what we have seen before about Mr. Craig's engagement with U.S. media. 16 Right? And then it repeats what we have seen before about 17 him going all over Europe to talk to people. 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Okay. 20 the meeting took place? 21 A. That is correct. 22 Q. Okay. 23 Harvard Club, and you said that Mr. Craig again mentioned the 24 name of David Sanger -- 25 A. And he had not consented to do these things before Now, you have told us about the meeting at the Correct. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 222 of 285 2022 1 Q. -- as a reporter he knew? 2 A. To my recollection, yes. 3 Q. Okay. 4 David Sanger? 5 A. 6 specific component of Sanger but that he was a reporter that 7 we could potentially use based on Greg's relationship to get 8 the story out, the seed story out. 9 Q. And what else is it that you say he said about At the meeting, it was not a lot of discussion on any So he didn't say, "Don't worry, I'll do it, I'll go get 10 Sanger, just tell me when to launch? He didn't say anything 11 like that? 12 A. He did not. 13 Q. It was just this is a good guy? 14 A. That he had a relationship with, yes. 15 Q. So that was not part of the media plan at the end of the 16 Harvard Club meeting that Greg Craig had taken on this 17 assignment? 18 A. 19 component of it, it was more general; that Craig had reduced 20 the amount of effort that he was willing to put into it, but 21 that he was still willing to do something. 22 was still dependent on what we came up with for the final 23 plan. 24 Q. 25 change the plan to say that Greg Craig will talk to David It was -- without specifically going through each Okay. And a lot of that But you didn't go out, then, and immediately Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 223 of 285 2023 1 Sanger? 2 A. That's correct. 3 Q. And that's why, if you look at -- well, strike that. 4 If you look at Exhibit 258, which is your notes from 5 the meeting, under "PR Items" on page 2 -- 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. -- and I think you told us earlier this was -- the next 8 page, please, John -- I think you told us earlier this was a 9 list of action items emanating from the Harvard Club meeting? 10 A. Notes and action items, yes. 11 Q. So there is no action item for Greg Craig? 12 A. Correct. 13 Q. Except possibly meeting this Mr. Fule? 14 A. Correct. 15 Q. To your knowledge, he never did that? 16 A. He did not. 17 Q. Now, do you know that the day after the Harvard Club 18 meeting Mr. Craig said that whatever discussion may have 19 occurred during that meeting about him backgrounding 20 journalists, he wouldn't be able to do it? 21 A. 22 Jonathan had mentioned it or not, but there was reluctance on 23 Mr. Craig's part to take on a number of the actions that we 24 had outlined in some of the models. 25 Q. I wasn't part of any discussion. I don't recall if Well, I think you said earlier that you never heard that Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 224 of 285 2024 1 Greg Craig changed his mind. 2 A. I personally did not, that's correct. 3 Q. Well, did you hear about it, him changing his mind? 4 A. Yes, at different points throughout the project, so not 5 just specifically at that time, but in other months as well. 6 Q. Well, how about specifically at this time? 7 A. At this time, I did not hear Mr. Craig change his mind 8 about that specific issue, no. 9 Q. Well, wasn't his changing his mind the subject of such 10 concern that a meeting was convened at Mr. Manafort's 11 apartment at Trump Tower to talk about what was going to 12 happen in view of him changing his mind? 13 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 14 question. 15 16 THE COURT: Was there a meeting convened at the Trump Tower shortly after the meeting at the Harvard Club? 17 THE WITNESS: 18 THE COURT: 19 Objection to the form of the Yes. Do you know what the purpose of the meeting was? 20 THE WITNESS: The purpose of the meeting was to 21 review and go through the report's content, and then also to 22 look at some of the material that we had discussed at the 23 meeting. 24 25 BY MS. JUNGHANS: Q. So it had nothing to do with -- Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 225 of 285 2025 1 THE COURT: 2 THE WITNESS: 3 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 4 Q. 5 you would. Did you call the meeting? No. Well, actually, take a look at Government Exhibit 270, if 6 This is an e-mail from yourself to Mr. Hawker -- 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. -- saying, "We are going to meet at 10 a.m. at Paul's 9 apartment." 10 Is it fair to say that if you didn't call it, you 11 organized it? 12 A. Paul asked me to call for the meeting. 13 Q. And who was there? 14 A. Myself, Mr. Hawker, Mr. Manafort, and I believe, for part 15 of it, Mr. van der Zwaan. 16 Q. Well, he is not on the e-mail. 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. Okay. 19 reversing course was not an issue that was brought up at this 20 meeting? 21 A. 22 Club meeting. 23 brought up previously to the Harvard Club meeting. 24 Q. 25 following you. So maybe I'm wrong about that. And you're saying that the issue of Mr. Craig It was not an issue brought up directly at the Harvard From my understanding from Mr. Hawker, it was I'm sorry, Mr. Gates. Maybe I'm tired, but I'm not I thought you said that at the Harvard Club Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 226 of 285 2026 1 meeting Mr. Craig said David Sanger is a good reporter? 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. Right. 4 of briefing David Sanger? 5 A. No, not at that meeting. 6 Q. Okay. 7 journalist, in general? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Okay. 10 A. Correct. 11 his mind. 12 Q. Understood. 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. You learned that the next day? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And was that a subject of concern to the group? 17 A. To Mr. Hawker, it was. 18 he would talk to Mr. Craig and take care of -- 19 Q. 20 21 In the general discussion that we had. And he didn't say, I will accept the assignment But he might have talked about backgrounding the And then you heard that he changed his mind? But this is not the first time he had changed But I'm talking about this specific subject. But Mr. Manafort indicated that I didn't ask you what Mr. Manafort -THE COURT: Well, you asked if it was a subject of concern to the group -- 22 MS. JUNGHANS: 23 THE COURT: 24 MS. JUNGHANS: 25 THE COURT: And that was a "yes" or "no" question. -- the group had different brains -Right, I'm just asking -- -- so he didn't have the same answer for Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 227 of 285 2027 1 every person. He's trying to answer your question. 2 MS. JUNGHANS: 3 THE COURT: Right. Okay. So it was the subject -- it was -- was 4 Mr. Hawker concerned? 5 THE WITNESS: 6 THE COURT: 7 THE WITNESS: 8 BY MS. JUNGHANS: He was. Was Mr. Manafort concerned? Not as concerned. 9 Q. Okay. 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And then you continued to do media plans. 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And let's look at September 26th, which is Defendant's 14 Exhibit 161. 15 So then you had this meeting at Trump Tower. Again, this is a document from you to Mr. Hawker, the 16 "SA outreach list." 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Okay. 19 addition to circulating it? 20 A. 21 the two D.C. firms. 22 but it had already been prepared by them. 23 Q. Okay. 24 A. I did. 25 Q. Okay. And are you the one who put this together in No, this was actually put together by the -- primarily, It's a template that we just updated, And did you have any input into it? And particularly as to U.S. journalists who might Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 228 of 285 2028 1 be employed in this process? 2 A. 3 that might be. 4 on what I was directed to do with the document. 5 Q. 6 which is page 3 of the pdf -- so after you review journalists 7 in Europe, then you get to the United States. 8 States person was Al Hunt at Bloomberg; correct? 9 A. That is correct. 10 Q. Okay. 11 included? 12 A. 13 it with that information. 14 Q. 15 presumption that Mr. Craig is going to reach out to David 16 Sanger? 17 A. At this stage, that is correct. 18 Q. And if you go to Defendant's Exhibit 167, a couple of 19 days later, another version. 20 caused you to update this version since September 26th? 21 A. 22 the plan. 23 either. 24 Q. Probably not. 25 A. Yes. Well, to be clear, I didn't have input in terms of who Okay. I had input into I could make changes based And what the document says, if you go to page 2, And the United And did you direct that that information be I don't recall, but we -- either I or Mr. Hawker updated Okay. So at this point, you are not operating on the Do you have any idea what Other than just more changes as we continued to change I don't even think this is the last document, Let's look at pdf 167-5. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 229 of 285 2029 1 Q. And if you look at the lower portion of the page, it has 2 got a whole bunch of assignments for Mr. Craig. 3 in this one, it says, "Al Hunt and Bloomberg will be 4 contacted by FTI and MCW." 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. What is that? 7 A. MCW was Mercury. 8 alluded to earlier that Mr. Weber had with the reporter, 9 Mr. Hunt. Okay. But I notice That was based on the contact that I 10 Q. So Mr. Craig isn't involved in that, according to 11 this plan? 12 A. That is correct. 13 Q. Okay. 14 Tony Blinken, Philip Gordon, and John Boehner? 15 A. That's who we identified, yes. 16 Q. Pardon me? 17 A. Yes, that's who we identified putting into the matrix. 18 Q. You're saying that Mr. Craig told you he would talk to 19 these three individuals? 20 A. 21 have -- I did not have a conversation with Mr. Craig. 22 Q. 23 Mr. Craig is going to do? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Not shared with him by you or by anybody else, as far as But Mr. Craig supposedly is going to go talk to No, I'm saying we just put it in the matrix. Okay. We did not This is your continuing wish list about what Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 230 of 285 2030 1 you know? 2 A. 3 at Congress and at the administration that we thought that 4 Mr. Craig would be willing to do. 5 Q. 6 hadn't asked him if he was willing to do it? 7 A. I personally did not, no. 8 Q. Now, if you go to Defendant's Exhibit 168, which is 9 September 30th, a couple of days later, again from you to Correct. Okay. This was a briefing of top level officials both You thought he would be willing to do, but you 10 Mr. Hawker, yet another version, and you ask him to look 11 closely at it. 12 Now, at this point, did you think that the 13 report -- this was like getting down to crunch time? I mean 14 you're exchanging lots of documents. 15 A. 16 times -- throughout the months that we thought we were going 17 to release it. 18 which we were attempting and believed that the report would 19 be released, that we would be given the green light from 20 Ukraine so that we could then put these into action. 21 Q. 22 we're still sticking with Al Hunt and Bloomberg. 23 A. That is correct. 24 Q. Without saying who's going to do it? 25 A. Correct. This happened a couple of times -- actually, a few Right. So it was another fire drill exercise in So, at that moment, if you look at page 168-2, Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 231 of 285 2031 1 2 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: MS. JUNGHANS: 4 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 168, page 2. Can you show the jurors a little bit above the box -- 6 MS. JUNGHANS: 7 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 8 THE COURT: 9 Are we at Exhibit 168? 3 5 Objection. Sure. Happy to. Okay. Well, I do think -- she can ask her questions, and you can ask your questions but -- 10 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 11 THE COURT: 12 (At the bench) 13 THE COURT: May we approach, Your Honor? Yes. I think his point was it wasn't a fair 14 question to say, without saying who's going to do it, when 15 immediately above it says this will be done by FTI and SA. 16 Now, you can establish whether he knew that, whether 17 it was a wish list, blah, blah, blah. 18 you asked a question that was misleading. 19 was deliberately you who put the box up -- 20 MS. JUNGHANS: 21 THE COURT: 22 MS. JUNGHANS: 23 24 25 But it says that. And I don't think it I'm happy to fix it. Okay. I'm happy to have him read this whole thing. THE COURT: That's not the point. I think what he meant, information that was invisible at the moment, and so Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 232 of 285 2032 1 it was an unfair question because it was written there. 2 MS. JUNGHANS: 3 THE COURT: 4 5 deliberately. I am not -- Nobody is suggesting that you did it All right. Now, I just want to say that we're all trying to 6 remain calm. 7 You don't need to turn back and look at him. 8 through me. 9 I think you can object and ask to approach. Let's put it I do want to say -- and this isn't directed to you 10 personally, this is directed to everyone -- that when the 11 jurors were making the gesture that indicated let's just keep 12 going that I think that conveyed that they wanted to just 13 finish whatever we were doing before the next break. 14 concerned that it also reflects the notion that this is 15 taking a long time. 16 either side. 17 and crosses, a fair amount of replowing of territory and 18 recapitulation of testimony, and so I just want everybody to 19 think about the fact that it may be wearing on your untended 20 audience. 21 personally; I'm directing that to everyone. 22 I'm And that doesn't lie at the feet of But there is, by both sides, in both directs And as I said, I'm not directing that to you MS. JUNGHANS: Your Honor, I appreciate that. There 23 is evidentiary value to the fact that these people generated 24 iteration after iteration after iteration of these documents 25 that don't mention Mr. Craig. You know, if I don't put that Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 233 of 285 2033 1 in, I can't make the point. 2 THE COURT: Well, I think Mr. Hawker was 3 cross-examined for an entire day during which that was put 4 in, and I think that this gentleman is being cross-examined 5 to put that in, and I understand the point, and the relevance 6 of the point will be both sides' ability to argue when the 7 time comes. 8 the jury with too much repetition. 9 only to the defense. I'm just suggesting that everyone risks annoying I think there has been a lot of 10 repetition by everyone. 11 that. And I think the jury's indicated So that's for what it is worth. 12 MS. JUNGHANS: 13 THE COURT: 14 I'm not directing that I hear you, and I'm doing my best. All right. Thank you. (In open court) 15 BY MS. JUNGHANS: 16 Q. Mr. Gates, Mr. Campoamor pointed out that I failed to 17 highlight this whole section, and I want to make sure that it 18 is complete. 19 20 So, John, could you go up to -- you can just do the line above the box. 21 Okay. "The background briefings will be done by FTI 22 and SA" -- which would be Skadden, right? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. -- "and include the following journalist." 25 A. Yes. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 234 of 285 2034 1 Q. And the journalist is Bloomberg? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Okay. 4 an e-mail from Mr. Hawker to Mr. Manafort and you. 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And what he does here is to take segments out of the 7 master grid and comment on them. 8 A. Let's look at Government Exhibit 280. And this is Right? Right? Let me read it real quick. 9 Okay. 10 Q. Okay. 11 "Mr. Craig is in Egypt. 12 would do meetings with political stakeholders." 13 And if you go to the next page, he says that In his last call, he said that he You see that? 14 A. I do. 15 Q. Now, Mr. Craig never -- you never heard him say that to 16 you? 17 A. No. 18 Q. And you don't know of him ever doing that? 19 A. Political stakeholders, I do not believe he did. 20 Q. Okay. 21 talks about the part that says "the setup" -- at the 22 bottom -- "The set up and numbers is the responsibility of 23 the agencies." 24 done by GC" -- Greg Craig" -- slash "me." 25 Mr. Hawker; right? And then if you go down lower on that page, he Again, it says, "briefings again would be "Me" is Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 235 of 285 2035 1 A. That's correct. 2 Q. "Or someone appropriate from the Ukraine." 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Now, this is a few days after you have just heard that 5 Mr. Craig had -- 6 7 THE COURT: Wait. Correct? Are the typed comments Hawker's comments or Manafort's comments? 8 MS. JUNGHANS: 9 THE WITNESS: 10 Hawker's. Mr. Hawker's. BY MS. JUNGHANS: 11 Q. Okay. This is a few days after you had been told that 12 Mr. Craig had reversed course about whatever he indicated at 13 the Harvard Club he might be able to do? 14 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: Objection to the form. 15 THE COURT: Can you repeat the question? 16 BY MS. JUNGHANS: I'm sorry. 17 Q. You said that the Harvard Club meeting was 18 September 23rd; right? 19 A. Correct. 20 Q. And within a day or two after that you heard that 21 Mr. Craig said that no, I can't do that? 22 A. With respect to media, not political stakeholders. 23 Q. Okay. 24 the line we just looked at, we're talking about briefings 25 with political stakeholders at that point. Well, right. But then we're talking about here, Right? Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 236 of 285 2036 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Okay. 3 do that but you understood clearly he was not going to do 4 media? 5 A. Based on -- yes, that's correct. 6 Q. Okay. 7 Government Exhibit 281. 8 "Matrix," and it says, "D.C. consultants plan." 9 So you're saying you still thought he was going to And let's just try to go through these. This is from you to Mr. Hawker, Right? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And this is the Podesta and Mercury people? 12 A. It is a revised version, yes. 13 Q. Turn to the next page, please, John. 14 And again, we're still talking about identifying a 15 key reporter, an outlet that can leak the story, possibly 16 Bloomberg. 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Okay. 19 A. Not in this document. 20 Q. Turn to Defendant's Exhibit 175. 21 to Mr. Hawker, October 3rd. 22 Right? No David Sanger? Do you see that? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. More of the same? 25 This is from yourself With a list? If you scroll to the next page, please, John. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 237 of 285 2037 1 "Proposed outreach list." And when you get to the 2 media on page 175-7, down at the bottom, and then go to the 3 next page, the person from The New York Times is Steven Lee 4 Myers. 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And so was that put in by somebody from Mercury or 7 Podesta? 8 A. 9 Mercury and Podesta, along with the document that Mr. Hawker 10 had created, and then in a lot of these instances things had 11 not been updated accordingly. 12 Q. I'm sorry. 13 A. Some things had not been updated accordingly. 14 Q. Okay. 15 leftover from some prior version, or was he in active 16 contemplation? 17 A. 18 showed me earlier where Mr. Hawker had put in Mr. Myers' name 19 as a placeholder. 20 Q. So he is still a placeholder? 21 A. At this stage, yes. 22 Q. So there is no plan at that point for Mr. Craig to reach 23 out to David Sanger? 24 A. 25 talked about about Mr. Craig reaching out -- Mr. Craig No. In fact, this was a compilation of documents from I didn't hear the last part. So you're saying Steven Lee Myers was just like a No, that was actually from the original document that you At that stage, to my knowledge, no specifics had been Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 238 of 285 2038 1 actually reaching out to him, that's correct. 2 Q. 3 identified journalist? 4 A. 5 briefings, but the plan in the context of when he would do 6 those, how many, to who, had not been decided at this stage. 7 Q. And then he said he couldn't do that, you heard? 8 A. Yes. 9 10 11 Or Mr. Craig reaching out to any other particularly That's correct. Mr. Craig had agreed to do background MS. JUNGHANS: Your Honor, if we could take a few minutes, I can maybe consolidate this. THE COURT: Is it too early? I think consolidation would be a useful 12 exercise. It's a little early. 13 better use of our time than not consolidating. 14 would like to take the afternoon break now for 10 minutes, we 15 will do that. 16 MS. JUNGHANS: 17 THE COURT: But I think it may be a So if you Thank you. All right. Members of the jury, we will 18 take our afternoon break. 19 one later that you don't get one. 20 now and we will resume in 10 minutes. 21 And our witness would get a break, too. 22 (Jury not present) 23 THE COURT: It doesn't mean that if you need All right. 24 will resume in 10 minutes. 25 (Recess) But we are going to break That would be 3:15. Everyone is excused, and we Thank you. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 239 of 285 2039 1 2 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 19-125, United States of America v. Gregory B. Craig. 3 4 THE COURT: All right. Can we bring the jury back in. 5 6 Your Honor, re-calling Case Number (Jury present) BY MS. JUNGHANS: 7 Q. 8 September of 2012; right? 9 A. That's correct. 10 Q. Or October? 11 A. Correct. 12 Q. Or November? 13 A. Correct. 14 Q. And it wasn't released, actually, until mid-December of 15 2012? 16 A. That is correct. 17 Q. And you learned in early December of 2012 that it was 18 going to be released; correct? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. So there were more iterations of the plan? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Okay. 23 A. I'm sorry. What exhibit? 24 Q. I'm sorry. Exhibit 317, Government Exhibit 317. 25 Mr. Gates, as it happened, the report was not released in Now, let's look at December 5th, 2012. And if you look at the lower portion of the document, Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 240 of 285 2040 1 it is an email from yourself to Mr. Kilimnik, Mr. Manafort, 2 and Mr. Hawker, saying that you are sending a complete set of 3 documents for the Skadden Report -- 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. -- that includes edits from Paul, which is Mr. Manafort; 6 right? 7 A. Correct. 8 Q. And the only new one is the file entitled "Master control 9 grid, SA report." 10 You see that? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Okay. 13 that on to Mr. van der Zwaan; correct? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And the address to which it was sent, 16 [email protected] is Mr. van der Zwaan's private 17 e-mail address, not his Skadden e-mail address; correct? 18 A. Correct. 19 Q. And then Mr. Hawker -- and you did not send this to 20 Mr. Craig? 21 A. I did not. 22 Q. And we don't have any evidence that Mr. Hawker sent it to 23 Mr. Craig? 24 A. I don't know. 25 Q. Okay. And then Mr. Hawker, you understand, forwarded Can you look at Defendant's -- Government's Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 241 of 285 2041 1 Exhibit 318. 2 And Mr. Hawker notified you pretty quickly there that 3 "Everything had gone to Alex's gmail. 4 Greg" -- 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. -- you see that? 7 Can't get hold of And if you go back to 317, that was -- the documents 8 that were forwarded -- that you sent to Mr. Hawker and 9 Mr. Hawker sent to Mr. van der Zwaan were a whole raft of 10 documents; correct? 11 A. 12 prepared. 13 Q. So if you look at Exhibit 317 in your paper form -- 14 A. Okay. 15 Q. -- it is actually about 90-some pages of documents; is it 16 not? 17 A. It looks pretty close. 18 Q. Okay. Yes. 19 It was the entirety of the packet that we had And John, if you would put up page 317-94. So on the 94th page of this batch of documents is an 20 item that says, in the middle of the page -- if you can blow 21 that up -- that the report will be given -- the upper 22 portion -- the report will be given to David Sanger, etc.; 23 right? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. And this is the only media plan you crafted that said Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 242 of 285 2042 1 that, and it was not provided by you to Mr. Craig? 2 A. 3 I did not send it to Mr. Craig, that's correct. I didn't craft the report. 4 5 MS. JUNGHANS: THE COURT: Thank you very much. When you say the 94th page, was this all one document or multiple documents? 8 THE WITNESS: 9 MS. JUNGHANS: 10 All right. But Nothing further. 6 7 I received a copy of it. Multiple documents. Multiple documents that are printed that came as one package. 11 THE COURT: They came as separate pdfs attached to 12 the email, and they have now been print and put in an order 13 that makes this the 94th page. 14 MS. JUNGHANS: 15 Correct. listed on the header is the master control grid. 16 THE COURT: 17 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 18 All right. Any redirect? Yes, Your Honor. REDIRECT EXAMINATION 19 20 And the last one that is BY MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: Q. Let's start with the last few sets of questions. 21 You were asked whether the documents were sent to 22 Mr. van der Zwaan's gmail account -- 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. -- as opposed to his Skadden account. 25 A. Yes. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 243 of 285 2043 1 Q. Was there a reason for that? 2 A. There was. 3 project that Mr. Manafort's e-mail had been hacked on a prior 4 occasion, and he wanted to ensure the integrity of the 5 information. 6 receiving highly sensitive information from the Skadden law 7 firm, particularly about the involvement of former Prime 8 Minister Tymoshenko, so we did not want that information to 9 be hacked, basically. There was concern very early on from the There were a number of instances where we were So we all used personal e-mail 10 accounts for some of the documents. 11 Q. 12 the business account? 13 A. 14 They wouldn't specifically know my gmail account because it 15 might not even have my name. 16 some other way that would not be a unique identifier to any 17 of us working on the project. 18 Q. 19 briefly. 20 as to who was Skadden's client in this matter. Why would that be safer than using the Skadden account or Well, because most people would know the Skadden account. All right. 21 It might be personalized in Let me take you back to this morning very You were asked some questions on cross-examination Do you recall those? 22 A. I do. 23 Q. Now, who arranged for Skadden to become involved in this 24 project? 25 A. To my knowledge, it was Mr. Pinchuk. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 244 of 285 2044 1 Q. Okay. But who paid or who was arranging for the payment 2 to be made to Skadden? 3 A. Mr. Manafort. 4 Q. And who was actually delivering the payment to Skadden? 5 A. I was. 6 Q. At Mr. Manafort's instructions? 7 A. Correct. 8 Q. And who was the person that would communicate Ukraine's 9 position on the Skadden Report to Mr. Craig? 10 A. It was Mr. Manafort. 11 Q. Not the Ministry of Justice? 12 A. No. 13 Q. You were also asked a number of questions about media 14 plans, a lot of questions about media plans today. 15 will be short. 16 But I Did you yourself ever send a media plan to Mr. Craig? 17 A. I did not. 18 Q. Were you copied on the one that was sent prior to the 19 Harvard Club meeting? 20 A. I was. 21 Q. Now, sir, do you know whether Mr. Craig -- well, strike 22 that. 23 Do you know whether Mr. Manafort had sent Mr. Craig 24 earlier versions of the media plan and you were not copied on 25 it? Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 245 of 285 2045 1 A. I do not. 2 Q. Do you know whether Mr. van der Zwaan had received prior 3 versions of the media rollout plan? 4 A. I know he did receive them from Mr. Hawker, yes. 5 Q. And do you know if Mr. van der Zwaan had provided those 6 copies to Mr. Craig? 7 A. I do not. 8 Q. Do you know whether Mr. van der Zwaan had shared with 9 other members of the team at Skadden? 10 A. I do not. 11 Q. And did those versions of the media plan make reference 12 to all these other PR firms that were also involved? 13 A. At different times, yes. 14 Q. Now, talking about those other firms, you were asked some 15 questions again this morning about Podesta and Mercury and 16 whether you had lied about the ECFMU. 17 Do you recall those questions? 18 A. I do. 19 Q. Let me ask you, first, who was the head of the Podesta 20 Group? 21 A. Tony Podesta. 22 Q. And who was the person in charge of the Mercury Group? 23 A. Vin Weber. 24 Q. Okay. 25 And -- THE COURT: Just for the record, he said who was in Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 246 of 285 2046 1 charge of The Podesta Group, and you said Podesta. 2 his first name? 3 THE WITNESS: Sorry. 4 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: What was Tony Podesta. 5 Q. And for Mercury, it was Vin Weber? 6 A. Vin Weber, correct. 7 Q. All right. 8 you in their personal capacities as opposed to the business, 9 okay? 10 So I want to make sure now that I'm asking Sir, did you lie to Mr. Podesta himself about whether 11 the ECFMU was independent from the government of Ukraine? 12 A. I did not. 13 Q. Did you lie to Mr. Weber himself about whether the ECFMU 14 was independent from the government of Ukraine? 15 A. I did not. 16 Q. Did you, in fact, tell Podesta -- Tony Podesta -- 17 that they were -- well, strike that. 18 Did you tell them who the client actually was? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And who was the client? 21 A. The government of Ukraine. 22 Q. So following up on that, you were also asked a lot of 23 questions about either lies or other crimes that you 24 committed earlier this morning. 25 You recall those? Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 247 of 285 2047 1 A. I do. 2 Q. And sir, you also had made a reference to approximately 3 how many interviews you have done with the government? 4 A. In excess of 40. 5 Q. Did you tell the investigators from the government and 6 the Special Prosecutor's Office about those lies and crimes? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And that's why that long list that you went on this 9 morning is known to us and to the defense? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And sir, did you have to come clean as part of this 12 process and talk and tell about all of the things you had 13 done? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And did you do that? 16 A. I did. 17 Q. Sir, as you sit here today, do you have any incentive to 18 lie or hide anything else from this Court or from the ladies 19 and gentlemen of the jury? 20 A. I certainly do not. 21 MS. JUNGHANS: 22 THE COURT: 23 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 24 25 Objection. A little. Argumentative. On to your next question. Yes, Your Honor. on. BY MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: I will move Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 248 of 285 2048 1 Q. All right. 2 very briefly. Let's go talk about the Harvard Club meeting 3 You got a lot of questions about that, and I 4 think -- please correct me -- you said at some point -- well, 5 first of all, did you yourself remember or recall Mr. Craig 6 reversing his position about backgrounding journalists? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Okay. 9 that you heard about a reversal. But upon questions of cross-examination, you said 10 A. I did. 11 Q. Can you explain what you mean by that? 12 A. Yes. 13 respect to media was Mr. Hawker. 14 communicate various updates and messages to me, and I would 15 relay them to Mr. Manafort. 16 were both present for the meeting. 17 communicated those messages to us directly. 18 Q. 19 Mr. Hawker was concerned about that. 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. And was he? 22 A. He was. 23 Q. Okay. 24 A. Mr. Manafort was not as concerned. 25 Q. And why was Mr. Manafort not concerned? Okay. The primary point of contact with Mr. Craig with So often Mr. Hawker would In this case, Mr. Manafort and I So Mr. Hawker And you, I think, also were asked about whether And whether Mr. Manafort was concerned about that? Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 249 of 285 2049 1 MS. JUNGHANS: 2 THE COURT: 3 I think this is fair redirect after you asked him what Mr. Manafort thought. 6 7 THE WITNESS: Yes, Mr. Manafort indicated to me that he would talk to Greg and take care of the situation. 8 9 What did he say that led you to believe he was more or less concerned? 4 5 Objection. BY MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: Q. Do you know -- without telling us what was said -- do you 10 know if Mr. Manafort did have, indeed, contact with 11 Mr. Craig? 12 A. I do know he had contact, yes. 13 Q. After this alleged reversal? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And in any event, was the idea of using Mr. Craig to 16 background journalists abandoned at any point? 17 A. No. 18 Q. Why not? 19 A. Because we needed Skadden to represent the findings of 20 the report. 21 it. 22 same. 23 had indicated, I'm only willing to talk to one person, we 24 would have taken it because we needed his expertise and 25 credibility to debrief people on the report. There was nobody that was more credible to do So if I did it or Mr. Hawker did it, it wouldn't be the So we had to continue down a path. Even if Mr. Craig Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 250 of 285 2050 1 Q. Now, let me ask you: 2 think it was reflected both in the notes and Government 3 Exhibit 280 that you were just shown by the defense. 4 you learn of Mr. Craig traveling to Egypt around either late 5 September or early October 2012? 6 A. I did. 7 Q. And in fact, was that discussed at the Harvard Club 8 meeting? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Do you know who, if anybody, from the other PR firms was 11 with Mr. Craig during that trip? 12 A. 13 they had a separate but shared client. 14 Q. In Egypt? 15 A. In Egypt, yes. 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. Or I believe it was the Middle East. 18 was Egypt specifically they were flying into and out of. 19 Q. 20 together? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Now, as you sit here today, do you recall when it was 23 that the name of David Sanger first got put in any document 24 related to the media PR plans? 25 A. Yes. Okay. You were shown some documents -- I But did Mr. Weber happened to be with Mr. Craig because I don't know if it Somewhere in the Middle East and they were Physical document, I believe it was the first document Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 251 of 285 2051 1 that came from Mercury that we saw earlier today. 2 Q. And is that where Mr. Weber worked? 3 A. It is. 4 Q. And if we can take a look at Government's Exhibit 306. 5 Can we zoom in on the top. 6 Is this a document you're referring to? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And does this, indeed, talk about Mr. Sanger as well as 9 Mr. Hunt being part of the seeding process? 10 A. It does. 11 Q. And you were shown all of these media -- well, let me do 12 one more thing. 13 zoom in on the bottom right. 14 Let's go to page 3 of this report. Let's In looking at the created date of October 3rd, 2012, 15 in the morning, does that help refresh your recollection 16 approximately about when the name of David Sanger at least 17 was being discussed among the PR firms? 18 19 20 MS. JUNGHANS: Objection, Your Honor. He didn't say he didn't have a recollection -THE COURT: I think he said he didn't know. You 21 asked him do you recall when his name first showed up in a 22 document. 23 24 25 He said it was this document. MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: Right. And I'm just trying to see if this helps -THE COURT: All right. Well, I think if you're Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 252 of 285 2052 1 refreshing somebody's recollection, you do it slightly 2 differently. 3 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: Okay. 4 THE COURT: 5 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 6 BY MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: Then if -- Ask your next question. I will ask my next question. 7 Q. As you sit here today, you don't recall? 8 A. When David Sanger's name was first mentioned -- 9 Q. Yes. 10 A. -- or in a document? 11 Q. No, in a document. 12 A. In a document, this document by Ms. Saunders was the 13 first time I had seen it in a document. 14 Q. 15 Mr. Sanger or Mr. Hunt? 16 A. There was. 17 Q. What was that debate? 18 A. The debate, again, was that Mr. Weber was concerned that 19 Mr. Sanger would not -- Now, was there a debate in the team as to whether to use 20 MS. JUNGHANS: 21 THE COURT: 22 (At the bench) 23 THE COURT: Objection. All right. Objection. Hearsay. Approach the bench. I don't think he was bringing in the 24 truth of the matter asserted. He's saying that there was a 25 debate, and someone said X and someone said Y. Now, if he Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 253 of 285 2053 1 wasn't present for the debate and the debate was reported to 2 him by somebody else, X said that Y said, he can't do that. 3 But if he heard the person say, I don't like Sanger for this 4 reason, and somebody else said, I like him for that reason, 5 that is not hearsay. 6 MR. TAYLOR: 7 THE COURT: 8 MR. TAYLOR: She is. 9 THE COURT: All right. 10 I don't know why he can't say that. May I? Okay. MR. TAYLOR: I think she's doing great. We're going to make sure that the record 11 is clear that we object to the extensive use of hearsay, 12 which is -- 13 THE COURT: 14 objection. 15 hearsay. Mr. Taylor, you can't lay down a general She objected every time she thought she heard 16 MR. TAYLOR: 17 THE COURT: I know that. And then she got up on cross-examination 18 and elicited hearsay. 19 your objection to my question? 20 generally inadmissible. 21 So now we're on redirect. And I agree that hearsay is He said, was there a debate within the team? 22 yes. 23 to testify to the fact that something was said. 24 25 And what is He asked him to explain it. He said And he is, I think, about And I don't understand where the hearsay comes in. Where is the assertion of a matter for the truth of the Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 254 of 285 2054 1 matter asserted? 2 That is hearsay. MR. TAYLOR: What I want to say, Your Honor, is 3 regardless of what has occurred, the testimony that Manafort 4 said he was going to do something with Craig is a violation 5 of our right in a criminal case to confront the witnesses 6 against us. 7 but the government's efforts to put into the case -- 8 9 I want to be sure that -- it is not just hearsay THE COURT: Okay. I'm going to tell you exactly why I ruled the way that I ruled. 10 MR. TAYLOR: 11 THE COURT: I -I'm going to put it on the record. 12 Ms. Junghans asked this witness on cross-examination about 13 the meeting in Mr. Manafort's office after the e-mail had 14 been received that he wasn't going to do the backgrounding. 15 And she said, what did the group think about that? 16 the group think, group including Mr. Manafort? 17 started to say what each of their positions was, including a 18 statement of future intention by Mr. Manafort, which again 19 seems to me it isn't hearsay, it falls within the exception, 20 I'm going to do X. 21 directly responsive -- to something that had been asked on 22 cross. 23 you. 24 ask a question about what did the people in the room think, 25 because people can't see inside of other people's heads, What did And he But it was directly responsive -- And so he asked about it on redirect. Your objection is on the record. And I hear But I believe if you Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 255 of 285 2055 1 they're going to tell you what they said. 2 So I think where we are right now is in the middle of 3 an answer about what the nature of the debate was within the 4 team. 5 So tell me your hearsay objection to that. 6 MS. JUNGHANS: What I was saying there, the debate, 7 some people thought it was good and some people thought it 8 was bad. 9 testimony that I think was about to be elicited was Mr. Weber I don't have a problem. He was about to -- the 10 thought a specific thing, and I don't think we need to know 11 Mr. Weber's specific opinions. 12 13 THE COURT: So you're saying it is irrelevant or it's hearsay? 14 MS. JUNGHANS: 15 THE COURT: Both. All right. Well, I think you asked him 16 why -- you asked him many times, well, why didn't it get 17 changed -- 18 MS. JUNGHANS: 19 THE COURT: 20 there. 21 be there. 22 Now, I didn't actually -- You kept saying, nonetheless, it's not So he's bringing out one of the reasons it might not MS. JUNGHANS: Look, I don't have a perfect 23 recollection of every word I have uttered today, I'm sure. 24 But I think I just said, it is not in this one, it is not in 25 this one, it is not in this one. And I didn't ask a single Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 256 of 285 2056 1 question about Vin Weber, not a single question. 2 Weber's opinion about thus and so, I just don't think is 3 relevant. 4 THE COURT: So Vin Nobody has addressed my question about 5 why the words that came out of Mr. Weber's mouth, if they 6 were said to Mr. Gates -- do we know if they were said to 7 Mr. Gates? 8 9 10 11 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: call where that was said. I believe there was a phone I can't recall if it was -- I believe so, but I'm not a hundred percent sure. THE COURT: Why don't we short-circuit some of this 12 and just ask him targeted questions. 13 use of Mr. Sanger? No. Who did Mr. Weber favor? 14 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 15 THE COURT: 16 17 18 Right. And I think you're allowed to bring that out because it is responsive to many issues that were raised. MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: I am trying to establish why the name of Sanger was not in the document -- 19 THE COURT: 20 Will that solve your problem? 21 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 22 MR. TAYLOR: 23 24 25 Did Mr. Weber favor the I understand that. Yes. If it can be done without inadmissible hearsay, that's one thing. THE COURT: to do it. All right. I just told him exactly how And so far no one has explained to me why, if he Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 257 of 285 2057 1 heard what Mr. Weber said, it would even constitute hearsay. 2 But we're trying to skip that by having him simply say -- and 3 then don't object that it is leading -- without telling me 4 why, did Mr. Weber favor Mr. Sanger? 5 someone else? Yes. 6 Okay. 7 MR. TAYLOR: 8 THE COURT: 9 MR. TAYLOR: 10 Did he favor Who? That's what we're going to do. May I tell you why it is hearsay? Yes. I know I'm trying your patience. I'm sorry. 11 12 No. THE COURT: No, no. It's just that you're arguing broader principles than what I'm asking. 13 MR. TAYLOR: If Mr. Gates is permitted to say 14 Mr. Weber recommended this, that conveys a message, a 15 statement, just like a doctor's diagnosis conveys. 16 hearsay. 17 Mr. Weber's state of mind doesn't make it admissible against 18 a defendant in a criminal case. 19 That's And the fact that it explains or may be relevant to THE COURT: An out-of-court statement -- every 20 out-of-court statement is not hearsay. 21 statement being offered for the truth of a matter asserted in 22 that statement is hearsay. 23 None of us need to lecture each other about what hearsay was. 24 25 An out-of-court You know that. I know that. And so I was asking him a more nuanced question about why the words coming out of Mr. Weber's mouth, I want to use Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 258 of 285 2058 1 X and not Y, is a fact, an assertion of a true fact. 2 not sure it is, but we don't need to look it up because we're 3 going to go past that with a much more tailored redirect so 4 that we can finish this bench conference and the trial. 5 MR. TAYLOR: 6 about what he said. 7 THE COURT: 8 So I'm We just can't cross-examine Mr. Weber I know that. You can call him. (In open court) 9 BY MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 10 Q. Let me ask you, to try to make this shorter: Did 11 Mr. Weber favor having Mr. Sanger be the person to be 12 backgrounding journalists? 13 A. No. 14 Q. Which journalist did Mr. Weber favor? 15 A. Mr. Al Hunt from Bloomberg. 16 Q. So when you were shown all those media plans in 17 October that did not have Mr. Sanger's name, the other ones, 18 is there a reason for that? 19 A. 20 we looked at potentially using other reporters. 21 communicated the information from Mr. Weber to Mr. Manafort. 22 And we had made a decision -- There is no specific reason other than that at the time 23 MS. JUNGHANS: 24 THE COURT: 25 supposed to do at the time? I had Objection. All right. You were doing what you were Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 259 of 285 2059 1 THE WITNESS: Yes, ma'am. 2 THE COURT: 3 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 4 BY MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: All right. Go on to your next question. Yes, Your Honor. 5 Q. Ultimately, who made the call to use Sanger? 6 A. Mr. Manafort. 7 Q. And that was after Mr. Craig had suggested -- 8 9 MS. JUNGHANS: That is hearsay. 10 THE COURT: 11 MS. JUNGHANS: 12 Your Honor, objection. All right. And I move to strike. And it is beyond the scope of the cross-examination. 13 THE COURT: No, that one it is not. 14 At the time someone reached out to Mr. Sanger on a 15 particular date. Do you know at whose direction -- do you 16 know from your own personal knowledge at whose direction they 17 were acting? 18 THE WITNESS: 19 THE COURT: 20 MS. JUNGHANS: 21 THE COURT: 22 (At the bench) 23 24 25 Mr. Manafort's. All right. Approach the bench. I renew our objection. I know. MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: I'm a little confused now myself. THE COURT: Well, I had asked for the first two Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 260 of 285 2060 1 questions. I didn't know where you were going after that. 2 So he is saying -- we don't know how he knew -- 3 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 4 THE COURT: 5 6 I can ask him that. Well, it would be because Mr. Manafort told him -MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: So I think there were 7 meetings at which they participated in phone calls. 8 can ask him if that's the case. 9 MS. JUNGHANS: 10 11 12 13 THE COURT: Excuse me. But I I'm sorry. If he was in a meeting where direction was given to Mr. Hawker, do X -MS. JUNGHANS: But the "do X" -- Mr. Hawker never talked to David Sanger. 14 THE COURT: He sent him an e-mail. 15 MS. JUNGHANS: No, he didn't. I apologize. 16 Mr. Gates never communicated with Mr. Sanger. 17 Mr. Gates why Mr. Hawker did something, I don't understand 18 that at all. 19 So asking He never communicated with -- THE COURT: I'm going to ask him, was he ever at a 20 meeting where someone was -- where Mr. Manafort specifically 21 directed someone in his presence to contact Mr. Sanger. 22 think he can testify to that. 23 direction, do X, do Y. 24 heard Mr. Manafort say, do X, do Y. 25 we have to go on. That's not hearsay. I That's If he was there, then he can say he If he wasn't there, then Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 261 of 285 2061 1 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: And my understanding, Your 2 Honor, is that Mr. Manafort told him personally and then he 3 relayed that to Mr. Hawker, who puts it in the plan. 4 the chain of command. 5 MS. JUNGHANS: Well, let's be clear because I don't 6 want to keep popping up. 7 Manafort said -- You're saying he is going to say 8 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 9 MS. JUNGHANS: 10 11 Can I just get my words out? Sanger and made sure of that -- is that what you're saying -THE COURT: He is saying Manafort told him, Gates, tell Hawker to do it, and he did. 14 MS. JUNGHANS: 15 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 16 MS. JUNGHANS: 17 Manafort made the decision. Manafort instructed Hawker to send an e-mail to 12 13 That's Told Hawker to do it. Is that what you're saying? That's what I believe, yes. Well, you'd think if that had happened, we would have heard it on direct. 18 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 19 THE COURT: You objected -- Let's assume that's the testimony. 20 Mr. Manafort direct you to do anything with respect to 21 Mr. Hawker and Mr. Sanger? 22 to tell him to contact him. 23 anyone? Yes. Yes. What did he do? He told me Did you communicate that to Mr. Hawker. 24 Is that hearsay? 25 MS. JUNGHANS: Did Well, it probably isn't in that Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 262 of 285 2062 1 precise format. 2 totally objectionable, is Manafort and Craig got together and 3 Craig agreed to do that and then Manafort told Hawker to do 4 it. 5 Manafort told Hawker to e-mail Sanger and Hawker did it, I 6 don't think that is hearsay. 7 THE COURT: 8 9 What this is all trying to hint at, which is We really have to keep away from that. If it is simply And so we're going to continue to lead him extremely tightly. Did you get a direction? Without telling me what it 10 is, did you get a direction from Mr. Manafort to tell 11 Mr. Hawker to do something? 12 What was it? 13 you pass that on to Mr. Sanger -- pass that on to Mr. Hawker? 14 And if you want to lead him through all of this, and the 15 questions are just "yes" and "no", you can do that, too. 16 can say, Mr. Gates, did you get a direction from Mr. Manafort 17 to pass on to Mr. Hawker? Yes. 18 contact Mr. Sanger? And did you pass that on to 19 Mr. Hawker? 20 Yes or no? And then yes. He told me to have him call Sanger. Yes. Yes. And did And stop. MS. JUNGHANS: I don't know what the witness is going to say as much as he does. 22 say he got a direction from Manafort to tell Hawker. 24 25 THE COURT: You Was it to have Mr. Hawker 21 23 Okay. I'm not even sure he is going to If he says, did you get a direction to pass on to Mr. Hawker, and he says no, then -MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: Right. I believe -- well, I Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 263 of 285 2063 1 will ask the question. But I believe the direction is who's 2 the journalist to be seeded. 3 THE COURT: That's the direction. Did you get a specific direction from 4 Mr. Manafort to pass on to Mr. Hawker as to who to contact as 5 the first journalist? 6 the journalist? 7 Mr. Hawker? 8 9 Yes or no. He answers yes. Who was Did you pass that information on to Three questions. MR. TAYLOR: This is so important to the core of this case that I want to implore you that this is a way of getting 10 before the jury the impression that Mr. Manafort had a 11 conversation with Mr. Craig, and that's the purpose of this. 12 The non-hearsay purpose is to get in front of a jury that the 13 implication that Manafort said something to Craig, he can't 14 avoid that. 15 And to let him testify -- THE COURT: Well, I think there is already an 16 implication that it could have been a ton of people. 17 have -- I mean, think of the end of the day, their closing 18 argument is going to be the documents were Craig reaches out 19 to Sanger. 20 e-mail to Sanger. 21 that. 22 he got that from Gates. 23 He got that direction from somebody else. 24 25 And we But there was indication where Hawker sent an He seems to think he was supposed to do He got that direction from somebody. And apparently And Gates didn't do it on his own. I think the thing about Manafort said he would speak to Craig, that was September. We're now talking about Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 264 of 285 2064 1 December, in a different time period. 2 know when these conversations took place. 3 We actually don't even There have been at least 20 minutes of our being up 4 here in between these two things. And he is not going to ask 5 any questions to link those two things. 6 is fair argument. 7 what transpired between the two of them. 8 talked about something else completely different. 9 know whether Mr. Craig said I will participate or I won't I'm not even sure it There is no testimony in the record about They could have We don't 10 participate, when they had that conversation. 11 think there will be any argument in closing argument about 12 what happened in some secret side conversation between the 13 two of them. 14 So I don't I don't think the evidence supports it. MR. TAYLOR: His testimony was that Paul Manafort 15 gave the instruction to put Craig -- Craig and Sanger's name 16 and that that's hearsay. 17 THE COURT: 18 MR. TAYLOR: 19 THE COURT: 20 defense: 21 the report. 22 by that person? 23 And it goes -- It is not -The subject was -He has been asked a thousand times by the Is this in the report? He told you to put it in Did you run it by this person? Did you run it You demanded that no conversation with Mr. Manafort 24 be introduced in direct, and the prosecution adhered to that. 25 And I sustained every objection along those lines. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 265 of 285 2065 1 And then, on cross-examination, you stood up and 2 said, what was Mr. Manafort thinking. 3 Manafort -- how did he react. 4 was elicited by the defense. 5 MR. TAYLOR: You asked, what did And the witness answered. It Your Honor, I don't believe that 6 anything we've done waived the right that I'm asserting, that 7 is, not to have to confront this kind of issue. 8 concerned about this from the beginning. 9 objection. We have been I note my I do believe that at the most tender portion in 10 this case the government is being permitted to get the 11 implication before the jury that Manafort spoke to Craig -- I 12 think that is wrong. 13 THE COURT: Well, as I said, I think there is a 14 separation between the two different things. We have now Vin 15 Weber and Craig going to Egypt together and talking about who 16 knows what. 17 name appears on the document, which gave me the implication 18 that it was Weber who told his associate to write it on the 19 piece of paper, and there have been further communications. And thereafter is the first time David Sanger's 20 We also know from evidence that this witness is not 21 going to be permitted to discuss that it is precisely during 22 that period of time that Mr. Craig reaches out to Mr. Sanger 23 and mentions Mr. Weber. 24 inference that you're concerned about is not necessarily the 25 inference, I don't believe, and I think it would be So I think at the end of the day the Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 266 of 285 2066 1 inappropriate in closing argument to stand up and say you all 2 can assume that Craig told Manafort he was going to do it 3 because Manafort told -- I understand their objection on that 4 point. 5 closing argument. 6 questions just to get out of this conundrum and on to your 7 next issue would be appropriate. 8 So I don't think you're going to argue that in But I think asking these couple of MS. JUNGHANS: 9 Thank you, Your Honor. (In open court) 10 BY MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 11 Q. Mr. Gates, did you get direction from Mr. Manafort to 12 tell Mr. Hawker which journalist to contact for the purposes 13 of the seeding? 14 THE COURT: That is just a "yes" or "no" question. 15 THE WITNESS: 16 BY MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: Yes. 17 Q. And which journalist was it? 18 A. Mr. David Sanger. 19 Q. And did you, in fact, pass on that information to 20 Mr. Hawker? 21 A. I did. 22 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 23 (Pause) 24 BY MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 25 Q. The Court's indulgence. Did Mr. Craig contact Mr. Sanger? Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 267 of 285 2067 1 A. He did. 2 3 6 This witness can be excused. All right. (Witness excused) THE COURT: Do we have a short witness, or a tall witness who isn't going to testify for a long time? 9 10 THE COURT: Thank you. 7 8 No further questions, Your Honor. 4 5 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: MS. GASTON: We don't have a really short witness here, Your Honor. 11 THE COURT: All right. Then everybody has lots of 12 things to do. So I think what we'll do is break for the 13 evening unless anybody has any objection. 14 All right. We're going to break for the evening. 15 You are all, once again, cautioned to please do not 16 pay attention to any news accounts of this matter. 17 look back to try to find prior news accounts about this 18 matter. 19 each other. 20 Don't discuss it with anyone. Do not Don't discuss it with The case has not yet been submitted to you. Tomorrow morning, in an abundance of caution, just 21 given some other matters on my calendar, I'm going to say 22 we're going to start proceedings at 10. 23 your breakfast. 24 9:30 and quarter of 10. 25 knocking on the door and beginning at 10 a.m. You'll still get You can aim to be in the jury room between And then, hopefully, we will be Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 268 of 285 2068 1 2 I urge you to have a pleasant evening, and don't think about the trial. 3 (Jury not present) 4 THE COURT: 5 All right. Have you refined your witness list such that you know how many more are left? 6 I understand that there's at least one more major 7 witness, and that would be Ms. Hunt. 8 got going on? 9 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: But what else have we I believe we have five 10 witnesses in the mix, but likely only four. 11 five. But we just have Would you like me to identify them? 12 THE COURT: Yes. 13 MS. JUNGHANS: 14 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: 15 I believe we have, at most, five witnesses left, We can't hear you. I'm sorry. 16 although it could be as short as four. 17 assuming crosses are not overly long, to be done by Monday. 18 THE COURT: All right. We do expect, That is very hopeful. If you 19 determine which witness you're not calling, that you're 20 definitely not calling, you can let the defense know if you 21 know you're definitely not going to call them. 22 23 MR. CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ: We will. And we will also give them the expected order for tomorrow. 24 THE COURT: 25 MR. TAYLOR: Thank you. Can I address the Court on a less Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 269 of 285 2069 1 controversial matter? 2 THE COURT: 3 MR. TAYLOR: Okay. We expect the government will rest 4 tomorrow or Monday, and we will be addressing the Court on 5 the sufficiency issues. 6 THE COURT: 7 MR. TAYLOR: All right. There has been a fair amount of briefing 8 on the question of how the Court will define the duty that is 9 at issue in this case. 10 For us to meaningfully address the Rule 29 issues, it 11 would be helpful to have some understanding of how the Court 12 intends to proceed. 13 But if we're going to address the question of whether or not 14 the government has proved the elements, including duty, then 15 it would be helpful to know from the Court, before we do 16 that, how the Court views the duty, as we have said in our 17 pleadings. 18 THE COURT: Obviously, that is an instruction issue. I will do the best I can. And certainly, 19 I won't make you articulate the argument if you have not yet 20 heard where I'm headed on that point. 21 I would note that the army of superb scribes on both 22 sides that are submitting information are submitting it to a 23 funnel, which is me, and I have been, as you know, here. 24 I have not concluded my examination of those issues, but I 25 understand that they are of the utmost importance; and that, So Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 270 of 285 2070 1 as in this case, the recurring theme, there is a deadline 2 looming and about to happen. 3 MR. TAYLOR: I wouldn't impose on the Court for this 4 in the ordinary case, but because this is a legal issue and 5 it comes up in connection with instructions, but if we're to 6 have a meaningful discussion about sufficiency it would be 7 helpful to us. 8 9 THE COURT: All right. And I appreciate that. And I think to the extent there is any lack of clarity about which 10 way I'm headed, until I have heard the whole case, you can 11 certainly -- if you argue that they haven't even met their 12 own standard, then they clearly wouldn't have met your higher 13 standard, and you can address both. 14 MR. TAYLOR: 15 THE COURT: 16 MR. TAYLOR: 17 THE COURT: I'm eager to do that. All right. Thank you, Your Honor. I certainly want to underscore something 18 that I said at the bench, which is that I'm not chagrinned 19 with anyone in this courtroom. 20 difficult issues, and we're all doing our best at threading 21 the needle carefully and in accordance with the rules of 22 evidence and all the challenges that this case has posed for 23 both sides. I think these are very 24 All right. Thank you. 25 (Proceedings adjourned at 4:10 p.m.) Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 271 of 285 2071 1 CERTIFICATE OF OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 2 3 I, Patricia A. Kaneshiro-Miller, certify that the foregoing 4 is a correct transcript from the record of proceedings in the 5 above-entitled matter. 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 /s/ Patricia A. Kaneshiro-Miller ---------------------------------PATRICIA A. KANESHIRO-MILLER August 22, 2019 --------------------DATE Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 272 of 285 2072 1 1 [1] - 2000:23 10 [7] - 2025:8, 2038:14, 2038:20, 2038:24, 2067:22, 2067:24, 2067:25 100 [1] - 1991:20 1000 [1] - 1991:24 11:11 [3] - 2021:4, 2021:5, 2021:8 12 [5] - 2002:11, 2010:8, 2012:20, 2012:22, 2015:25 123 [1] - 2012:15 123-3 [1] - 2013:19 125 [1] - 2014:20 126 [1] - 1994:16 12th [6] - 1995:9, 1996:9, 1996:10, 1999:7, 2000:6 134 [2] - 2017:24, 2018:15 14 [1] - 2013:21 15th [1] - 2005:15 161 [1] - 2027:14 167 [1] - 2028:18 167-5 [1] - 2028:24 168 [3] - 2030:8, 2031:2, 2031:3 168-2 [1] - 2030:21 175 [1] - 2036:20 175-7 [1] - 2037:2 1800 [1] - 1991:24 18th [1] - 2018:2 19-125 [1] - 2039:2 19-CR-125 [1] - 1991:4 1994 [1] - 1993:3 2 2 [4] - 2001:8, 2023:5, 2028:5, 2031:3 20 [1] - 2064:3 20001 [1] - 1992:4 20036 [1] - 1991:25 2006 [1] - 2012:20 2012 [13] - 1995:9, 2000:7, 2002:11, 2010:8, 2012:21, 2012:22, 2016:1, 2039:8, 2039:15, 2039:17, 2039:22, 2050:5, 2051:14 2016 [1] - 1993:6 2019 [1] - 1991:7 202 [1] - 1992:5 2042 [1] - 1993:3 20530 [2] - 1991:15, 1991:17 21202 [1] - 1991:21 22 [1] - 1991:7 233 [4] - 1996:4, 1996:5, 1996:6, 2010:9 234 [8] - 1995:8, 1998:25, 1999:6, 1999:24, 2000:2, 2000:3 23rd [1] - 2035:18 2440 [1] - 1991:21 254 [2] - 2019:15, 2019:22 258 [1] - 2023:4 26th [2] - 2027:13, 2028:20 270 [1] - 2025:4 280 [2] - 2034:3, 2050:3 281 [1] - 2036:7 29 [1] - 2069:10 2:03 [1] - 1994:2 3 3 [4] - 2010:10, 2021:12, 2028:6, 2051:12 306 [1] - 2051:4 30th [1] - 2030:9 317 [4] - 2039:24, 2041:7, 2041:13 317-94 [1] - 2041:18 318 [1] - 2041:1 333 [1] - 1992:4 354-3243 [1] - 1992:5 3:15 [1] - 2038:20 3rd [2] - 2036:21, 2051:14 4 4 [1] - 2020:15 40 [1] - 2047:4 418 [4] - 1993:6, 2015:24, 2016:5, 2016:8 4700A [1] - 1992:3 4:10 [1] - 2070:25 4:11 [2] - 2020:11, 2020:12 5 5 [4] - 2000:12, 2000:23, 2007:12, 2021:13 555 [1] - 1991:14 5th [1] - 2039:22 6 6 [1] - 2005:15 7 75 [1] - 2020:2 9 9 [5] - 1991:5, 1998:24, 1998:25, 1999:7, 2000:12 90-some [1] - 2041:15 94th [3] - 2041:19, 2042:6, 2042:13 950 [1] - 1991:17 9:30 [1] - 2067:24 A a.m [4] - 2020:11, 2020:15, 2025:8, 2067:25 Aarons [2] - 1995:11, 2000:10 abandoned [1] - 2049:16 Abelson [1] - 1991:19 ability [3] - 2009:3, 2009:6, 2033:6 able [3] - 2008:13, 2023:20, 2035:13 absence [2] - 2005:9, 2008:9 abundance [1] - 2067:20 accept [1] - 2026:3 accepted [1] - 2007:20 accordance [1] - 2070:21 according [2] - 2017:19, 2029:10 accordingly [2] - 2037:11, 2037:13 account [6] - 2042:22, 2042:24, 2043:11, 2043:12, 2043:13, 2043:14 accounts [3] - 2043:10, 2067:16, 2067:17 accurate [4] - 2006:12, 2006:23, 2011:14, 2012:11 achieve [1] - 2007:19 acknowledge [1] - 2004:19 acquire [1] - 2008:10 acting [1] - 2059:17 Action [1] - 1991:4 action [4] - 2023:9, 2023:10, 2023:11, 2030:20 actions [1] - 2023:23 active [1] - 2037:15 activity [1] - 1996:9 actual [2] - 1999:14, 2006:21 Adam [2] - 1991:16, 1991:19 addition [1] - 2027:19 address [8] - 2010:1, 2040:15, 2040:17, 2068:25, 2069:10, 2069:13, 2070:13 addressed [1] - 2056:4 addressing [1] - 2069:4 adequacy [1] - 2002:25 adequate [3] - 2006:5, 2007:24, 2008:8 adhered [1] - 2064:24 adjourn [1] - 2008:9 adjourned [1] - 2070:25 administration [1] - 2030:3 admissible [1] - 2057:17 admission [2] - 2005:6, 2016:4 admitted [2] - 2016:7, 2016:8 adverse [1] - 2006:17 Afternoon [1] - 1991:5 afternoon [2] - 2038:14, 2038:18 AFTERNOON [2] - 1991:9, 1994:1 agencies [1] - 2034:23 agenda [1] - 2019:16 agree [1] - 2053:19 agreed [2] - 2038:4, 2062:3 aided [1] - 1992:6 aim [1] - 2067:23 Al [4] - 2028:8, 2029:3, 2030:22, 2058:15 Alex's [1] - 2041:3 AlexanderVanDerZwaan@gmail. com [1] - 2040:16 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 273 of 285 2073 allegation [1] - 2004:2 alleged [2] - 2009:14, 2049:13 allow [1] - 2008:10 allowed [1] - 2056:15 alluded [1] - 2029:8 almost [1] - 2008:16 AMERICA [1] - 1991:3 America [1] - 2039:2 American [3] - 2003:15, 2003:18, 2010:4 amount [3] - 2022:20, 2032:17, 2069:7 AMY [1] - 1991:9 annoying [1] - 2033:7 answer [4] - 2016:22, 2026:25, 2027:1, 2055:3 answered [2] - 2011:22, 2065:3 answers [2] - 1994:22, 2063:5 apartment [2] - 2024:11, 2025:9 apologize [3] - 1999:3, 2019:24, 2060:15 appear [2] - 1996:11, 2005:7 APPEARANCES [1] - 1991:11 appeared [1] - 2017:22 appellate [1] - 2003:18 appendices [1] - 2000:20 appreciate [2] - 2032:22, 2070:8 approach [5] - 2001:16, 2031:10, 2032:6, 2052:21, 2059:19 appropriate [2] - 2035:2, 2066:7 argue [5] - 2012:5, 2012:9, 2033:6, 2066:4, 2070:11 argues [2] - 2008:7, 2009:2 arguing [1] - 2057:11 argument [7] - 2063:18, 2064:6, 2064:11, 2066:1, 2066:5, 2069:19 argumentative [1] - 2047:21 army [1] - 2069:21 arranged [1] - 2043:23 arranging [1] - 2044:1 article [2] - 2016:16, 2017:6 articulate [1] - 2069:19 asserted [3] - 2052:24, 2054:1, 2057:21 asserting [1] - 2065:6 assertion [2] - 2053:25, 2058:1 assignment [3] - 2003:5, 2022:17, 2026:3 assignments [1] - 2029:2 assistance [1] - 2008:17 associate [1] - 2065:18 assume [2] - 2061:19, 2066:2 assuming [1] - 2068:17 assurances [1] - 2015:20 attached [5] - 1996:21, 2000:20, 2013:8, 2021:11, 2042:11 attachments [1] - 1996:2 attempting [1] - 2030:18 attention [3] - 1999:17, 2015:1, 2067:16 ATTORNEY'S [1] - 1991:13 audience [1] - 2032:20 audiences [1] - 2014:23 August [2] - 1991:7, 2007:12 AUSA [2] - 1991:12, 1991:13 Avenue [2] - 1991:17, 1992:4 avoid [2] - 2012:4, 2063:14 B background [3] - 2033:21, 2038:4, 2049:16 backgrounding [5] - 2023:19, 2026:6, 2048:6, 2054:14, 2058:12 bad [1] - 2055:8 balance [2] - 2006:4, 2007:22 Baltimore [1] - 1991:21 based [11] - 1998:18, 2002:19, 2003:17, 2009:24, 2011:11, 2011:17, 2020:13, 2022:7, 2028:3, 2029:7, 2036:5 basis [1] - 1997:8 batch [2] - 2019:16, 2041:19 become [1] - 2043:23 BEFORE [1] - 1991:9 beginning [3] - 2007:12, 2065:8, 2067:25 behavior [2] - 2004:18, 2007:14 bench [9] - 2001:19, 2012:5, 2031:12, 2052:21, 2052:22, 2058:4, 2059:19, 2059:22, 2070:18 BERMAN [1] - 1991:9 best [3] - 2033:12, 2069:18, 2070:20 better [2] - 2006:16, 2038:13 between [5] - 2064:4, 2064:7, 2064:12, 2065:14, 2067:23 beyond [3] - 2003:4, 2003:5, 2059:12 BG [3] - 2019:3, 2019:5, 2019:7 Big [1] - 2019:7 binder [1] - 2019:20 bit [1] - 2031:5 blah [3] - 2031:17 Blinken [1] - 2029:14 Bloomberg [7] - 2014:6, 2028:8, 2029:3, 2030:22, 2034:1, 2036:16, 2058:15 blow [3] - 2012:16, 2016:15, 2041:20 Boehner [1] - 2029:14 bore [1] - 2006:18 bottom [4] - 2001:8, 2034:22, 2037:2, 2051:13 box [3] - 2031:5, 2031:19, 2033:20 Bradley [1] - 1991:16 brains [1] - 2026:23 break [7] - 2032:13, 2038:14, 2038:18, 2038:19, 2038:21, 2067:12, 2067:14 breakfast [1] - 2067:23 briefing [3] - 2026:4, 2030:2, 2069:7 briefings [4] - 2033:21, 2034:23, 2035:24, 2038:5 briefly [2] - 2043:19, 2048:2 bring [3] - 1994:3, 2039:3, 2056:15 bringing [2] - 2052:23, 2055:20 broader [1] - 2057:12 broke [1] - 1994:15 brought [3] - 2025:19, 2025:21, 2025:23 bullet [1] - 2001:1 bunch [1] - 2029:2 business [2] - 2043:12, 2046:8 BY [32] - 1994:14, 1996:8, 1997:24, 1998:23, 1999:5, 1999:23, 2002:9, 2003:24, 2005:22, 2007:8, 2011:8, 2012:10, 2012:23, 2016:9, 2017:5, 2020:1, 2021:10, 2024:24, 2025:3, 2027:8, 2033:15, 2035:10, 2035:16, 2039:6, 2042:19, 2047:25, 2049:8, 2052:6, 2058:9, 2066:10, 2066:16, 2066:24 C calendar [1] - 2067:21 calm [1] - 2032:6 CAMPOAMOR [54] - 1997:13, 1997:16, 1997:20, 1999:1, 2001:16, 2001:18, 2001:20, 2002:2, 2006:11, 2006:15, 2010:20, 2011:21, 2011:25, 2016:6, 2016:19, 2024:13, 2031:1, 2031:4, 2031:7, 2031:10, 2035:14, 2042:17, 2042:19, 2046:4, 2047:23, 2047:25, 2049:8, 2051:23, 2052:3, 2052:5, 2052:6, 2056:8, 2056:14, 2056:17, 2056:21, 2058:9, 2059:3, 2059:4, 2059:23, 2060:3, 2060:6, 2061:1, 2061:8, 2061:15, 2061:18, 2062:25, 2066:10, 2066:16, 2066:22, 2066:24, 2067:2, 2068:9, 2068:14, 2068:22 Campoamor [2] - 1991:12, 2033:16 CAMPOAMOR-SANCHEZ [54] 1997:13, 1997:16, 1997:20, 1999:1, 2001:16, 2001:18, 2001:20, 2002:2, 2006:11, 2006:15, 2010:20, 2011:21, 2011:25, 2016:6, 2016:19, 2024:13, 2031:1, 2031:4, 2031:7, 2031:10, 2035:14, 2042:17, 2042:19, 2046:4, 2047:23, 2047:25, 2049:8, 2051:23, 2052:3, 2052:5, 2052:6, 2056:8, 2056:14, 2056:17, 2056:21, 2058:9, 2059:3, 2059:4, 2059:23, 2060:3, 2060:6, 2061:1, 2061:8, 2061:15, 2061:18, 2062:25, 2066:10, 2066:16, 2066:22, 2066:24, 2067:2, 2068:9, 2068:14, 2068:22 Campoamor-Sanchez [1] - 1991:12 candidate [1] - 2009:18 capacities [1] - 2046:8 caption [3] - 1996:15, 2017:6, 2017:7 care [2] - 2026:18, 2049:7 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 274 of 285 2074 carefully [1] - 2070:21 case [18] - 2003:15, 2007:17, 2007:20, 2009:25, 2016:18, 2048:15, 2054:5, 2054:7, 2057:18, 2060:8, 2063:9, 2065:10, 2067:19, 2069:9, 2070:1, 2070:4, 2070:10, 2070:22 Case [1] - 2039:1 caused [1] - 2028:20 caution [1] - 2067:20 cautioned [1] - 2067:15 center [1] - 2003:14 certain [2] - 2005:2, 2009:5 certainly [6] - 2006:17, 2008:16, 2047:20, 2069:18, 2070:11, 2070:17 chagrinned [1] - 2070:18 chain [1] - 2061:4 challenges [1] - 2070:22 change [4] - 2002:1, 2022:25, 2024:7, 2028:21 changed [5] - 2018:12, 2024:1, 2026:9, 2026:10, 2055:17 changes [2] - 2028:3, 2028:21 changing [3] - 2024:3, 2024:9, 2024:12 characterization [3] - 2010:22, 2011:15, 2012:12 characterize [1] - 2005:14 charge [2] - 2045:22, 2046:1 charges [1] - 2002:25 chart [1] - 2013:4 check [1] - 1997:5 chief [2] - 2008:24, 2015:13 circuit [1] - 2056:11 circulated [1] - 2019:17 circulating [1] - 2027:19 cited [1] - 2005:11 citing [1] - 2014:24 claims [1] - 2007:10 clarify [1] - 2011:2 clarity [1] - 2070:9 clean [1] - 2047:11 clear [5] - 2001:25, 2002:10, 2028:2, 2053:11, 2061:5 clearly [2] - 2036:3, 2070:12 CLERK [3] - 1996:5, 2019:23, 2039:1 client [6] - 2009:12, 2015:15, 2043:20, 2046:18, 2046:20, 2050:13 close [2] - 2009:19, 2041:17 closely [1] - 2030:11 closing [4] - 2063:17, 2064:11, 2066:1, 2066:5 Club [16] - 2019:13, 2019:18, 2020:20, 2021:23, 2022:16, 2023:9, 2023:17, 2024:16, 2025:22, 2025:23, 2025:25, 2035:13, 2035:17, 2044:19, 2048:1, 2050:7 COLUMBIA [2] - 1991:1, 1991:14 coming [1] - 2057:25 command [1] - 2061:4 comment [1] - 2034:7 commented [1] - 2012:14 comments [6] - 1996:11, 2018:20, 2019:10, 2035:6, 2035:7 committed [1] - 2046:24 communicate [3] - 2044:8, 2048:14, 2061:22 communicated [4] - 2048:17, 2058:21, 2060:16, 2060:18 communications [1] - 2065:19 compilation [1] - 2037:8 complained [1] - 2003:12 complaint [1] - 2005:2 complete [2] - 2033:18, 2040:2 completely [1] - 2064:8 complicated [1] - 2012:4 component [2] - 2022:6, 2022:19 compromised [1] - 2009:6 computer [2] - 1992:6, 2020:14 computer-aided [1] - 1992:6 concern [4] - 2024:10, 2026:16, 2026:21, 2043:2 concerned [13] - 2018:8, 2027:4, 2027:6, 2027:7, 2032:14, 2048:19, 2048:23, 2048:24, 2048:25, 2049:3, 2052:18, 2065:8, 2065:24 concerns [5] - 2005:15, 2006:6, 2007:25, 2018:25, 2019:3 concluded [4] - 2004:6, 2006:5, 2007:23, 2069:24 concludes [3] - 1998:11, 2010:11, 2011:18 conclusion [15] - 1997:7, 2001:14, 2002:15, 2002:24, 2003:6, 2003:10, 2003:21, 2005:14, 2006:2, 2006:12, 2007:9, 2008:3, 2010:15, 2010:17, 2011:15 Conclusions [1] - 2001:2 conclusions [4] - 2001:5, 2001:9, 2001:22, 2012:12 conduct [1] - 2004:20 confer [1] - 1998:22 conference [1] - 2058:4 conflicting [1] - 2002:17 confront [2] - 2054:5, 2065:7 confused [3] - 1999:1, 2008:5, 2059:23 confusion [1] - 2001:22 Congress [1] - 2030:3 connection [1] - 2070:5 consent [1] - 2019:9 consented [1] - 2021:19 consider [1] - 2019:9 consideration [1] - 2013:9 consolidate [1] - 2038:10 consolidating [1] - 2038:13 consolidation [1] - 2038:11 constitute [1] - 2057:1 Constitution [1] - 1992:4 consult [1] - 1998:19 consultants [1] - 2036:8 contact [10] - 2029:7, 2048:12, 2049:10, 2049:12, 2060:21, 2061:22, 2062:18, 2063:4, 2066:12, 2066:25 contacted [1] - 2029:4 contemplation [1] - 2037:16 contempt [1] - 2007:15 content [2] - 2006:22, 2024:21 contents [1] - 2000:18 context [1] - 2038:5 continue [2] - 2049:22, 2062:7 continued [3] - 2008:14, 2027:11, 2028:21 continuing [2] - 2007:12, 2029:22 control [6] - 2012:20, 2013:4, 2020:22, 2021:11, 2040:8, 2042:15 controversial [1] - 2069:1 conundrum [1] - 2066:6 convened [2] - 2024:10, 2024:15 convening [1] - 2019:13 conversation [6] - 2020:18, 2029:21, 2063:11, 2064:10, 2064:12, 2064:23 conversations [1] - 2064:2 conveyed [1] - 2032:12 conveys [2] - 2057:14, 2057:15 conviction [4] - 2003:19, 2006:8, 2008:1, 2010:4 copied [2] - 2044:18, 2044:24 copies [1] - 2045:6 copy [2] - 1995:3, 2042:2 core [1] - 2063:8 corner [1] - 2013:9 correct [71] - 1995:11, 1995:12, 1995:14, 1996:12, 1997:11, 1998:6, 2000:2, 2000:8, 2000:24, 2001:6, 2001:10, 2001:11, 2002:12, 2002:14, 2002:22, 2003:9, 2003:12, 2003:13, 2004:15, 2005:11, 2005:25, 2008:18, 2009:13, 2013:3, 2014:5, 2014:9, 2014:18, 2015:22, 2017:16, 2018:13, 2018:14, 2019:2, 2019:3, 2021:1, 2021:21, 2021:25, 2023:2, 2023:12, 2023:14, 2024:2, 2025:17, 2026:2, 2026:10, 2028:8, 2028:9, 2028:17, 2029:12, 2030:2, 2030:23, 2030:25, 2035:1, 2035:2, 2035:19, 2036:5, 2038:1, 2038:4, 2039:9, 2039:11, 2039:13, 2039:16, 2039:18, 2040:7, 2040:13, 2040:17, 2040:18, 2041:10, 2042:3, 2042:14, 2044:7, 2046:6, 2048:4 counsel [8] - 1998:20, 2005:5, 2008:5, 2008:9, 2008:13, 2008:15, 2008:17, 2013:10 Counsel [1] - 1998:22 couple [4] - 2028:18, 2030:9, 2030:15, 2066:5 course [2] - 2025:19, 2035:12 COURT [116] - 1991:1, 1994:3, 1994:5, Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 275 of 285 2075 1997:18, 1997:21, 1998:21, 1999:11, 1999:16, 1999:20, 2000:2, 2000:4, 2001:17, 2002:4, 2002:7, 2003:22, 2005:8, 2005:12, 2005:20, 2006:13, 2006:21, 2007:1, 2007:4, 2007:7, 2010:21, 2012:1, 2016:7, 2016:21, 2021:2, 2021:5, 2021:7, 2021:9, 2024:15, 2024:18, 2025:1, 2026:20, 2026:23, 2026:25, 2027:3, 2027:6, 2031:8, 2031:11, 2031:13, 2031:21, 2031:24, 2032:3, 2033:2, 2033:13, 2035:6, 2035:15, 2038:11, 2038:17, 2038:23, 2039:3, 2042:6, 2042:11, 2042:16, 2045:25, 2047:22, 2049:2, 2051:20, 2051:25, 2052:4, 2052:21, 2052:23, 2053:7, 2053:9, 2053:13, 2053:17, 2054:8, 2054:11, 2055:12, 2055:15, 2055:19, 2056:4, 2056:11, 2056:15, 2056:19, 2056:24, 2057:8, 2057:11, 2057:19, 2058:7, 2058:24, 2059:2, 2059:10, 2059:13, 2059:19, 2059:21, 2059:25, 2060:4, 2060:10, 2060:14, 2060:19, 2061:12, 2061:19, 2062:7, 2062:23, 2063:3, 2063:15, 2064:17, 2064:19, 2065:13, 2066:14, 2067:4, 2067:7, 2067:11, 2068:4, 2068:12, 2068:18, 2068:24, 2069:2, 2069:6, 2069:18, 2070:8, 2070:15, 2070:17 court [8] - 2002:8, 2003:18, 2033:14, 2057:19, 2057:20, 2058:8, 2066:9 Court [15] - 1992:3, 2001:15, 2002:18, 2002:19, 2002:20, 2007:20, 2008:7, 2047:18, 2068:25, 2069:4, 2069:8, 2069:11, 2069:15, 2069:16, 2070:3 Court's [7] - 2001:14, 2002:15, 2004:19, 2007:10, 2007:16, 2009:5, 2066:22 Courthouse [1] - 1992:3 courtroom [6] - 2004:18, 2005:1, 2007:14, 2007:18, 2012:7, 2070:19 courts [2] - 2003:16, 2007:21 cover [1] - 2000:16 craft [1] - 2042:2 crafted [1] - 2041:25 CRAIG [1] - 1991:5 Craig [77] - 2013:14, 2013:17, 2014:2, 2014:11, 2014:13, 2014:16, 2015:17, 2015:20, 2018:18, 2018:23, 2019:9, 2020:18, 2021:23, 2022:16, 2022:19, 2022:25, 2023:11, 2023:18, 2024:1, 2024:7, 2025:18, 2026:1, 2026:18, 2028:15, 2029:2, 2029:10, 2029:13, 2029:18, 2029:21, 2029:23, 2030:4, 2032:25, 2034:11, 2034:15, 2034:24, 2035:5, 2035:12, 2035:21, 2037:22, 2037:25, 2038:2, 2038:4, 2039:2, 2040:20, 2040:23, 2042:1, 2042:3, 2044:9, 2044:16, 2044:21, 2044:23, 2045:6, 2048:5, 2048:12, 2049:11, 2049:15, 2049:22, 2050:4, 2050:11, 2050:12, 2054:4, 2059:7, 2062:2, 2062:3, 2063:11, 2063:13, 2063:18, 2063:25, 2064:9, 2064:15, 2065:11, 2065:15, 2065:22, 2066:2, 2066:25 Craig's [4] - 2018:10, 2018:24, 2021:15, 2023:23 created [3] - 1998:18, 2037:10, 2051:14 credibility [1] - 2049:25 credible [1] - 2049:20 crimes [2] - 2046:23, 2047:6 Criminal [1] - 1991:4 criminal [2] - 2054:5, 2057:18 CROSS [2] - 1993:2, 1994:13 cross [10] - 2033:3, 2033:4, 2043:19, 2048:8, 2053:17, 2054:12, 2054:22, 2058:5, 2059:12, 2065:1 cross-examination [6] - 2043:19, 2048:8, 2053:17, 2054:12, 2059:12, 2065:1 CROSS-EXAMINATION [1] - 1994:13 cross-examine [1] - 2058:5 cross-examined [2] - 2033:3, 2033:4 crosses [2] - 2032:17, 2068:17 CRR [1] - 1992:3 crunch [1] - 2030:13 customarily [1] - 2004:14 cut [3] - 2014:25, 2015:11, 2016:11 cut-down [2] - 2014:25, 2015:11 D D.C [4] - 1991:6, 1992:4, 2027:21, 2036:8 date [3] - 2013:5, 2051:14, 2059:15 dated [1] - 2015:25 David [16] - 2014:8, 2021:24, 2022:4, 2022:25, 2026:1, 2026:4, 2028:15, 2036:18, 2037:23, 2041:22, 2050:23, 2051:16, 2052:8, 2060:13, 2065:16, 2066:18 DAY [1] - 1991:5 days [4] - 2028:19, 2030:9, 2035:4, 2035:11 DC [3] - 1991:15, 1991:17, 1991:25 deadline [1] - 2070:1 deals [5] - 1999:8, 2003:10, 2005:24, 2008:3, 2008:4 dealt [3] - 2004:1, 2004:2, 2018:25 debate [9] - 2052:14, 2052:17, 2052:18, 2052:25, 2053:1, 2053:21, 2055:3, 2055:6 debrief [1] - 2049:25 December [5] - 2000:6, 2039:14, 2039:17, 2039:22, 2064:1 decided [1] - 2038:6 decision [6] - 2006:3, 2007:11, 2007:22, 2009:5, 2058:22, 2061:8 defendant [3] - 2003:16, 2008:12, 2057:18 Defendant [3] - 1991:6, 1991:19, 2016:8 DEFENDANT [1] - 1993:5 Defendant's [13] - 2000:2, 2012:15, 2014:20, 2015:23, 2016:5, 2017:24, 2018:15, 2019:22, 2027:13, 2028:18, 2030:8, 2036:20, 2040:25 defense [13] - 2003:11, 2003:17, 2008:9, 2008:20, 2009:4, 2009:5, 2009:7, 2033:9, 2047:9, 2050:3, 2064:20, 2065:4, 2068:20 define [1] - 2069:8 definitely [2] - 2068:20, 2068:21 deliberately [2] - 2031:19, 2032:4 delivering [1] - 2044:4 demanded [1] - 2064:23 denied [1] - 2008:24 DEPARTMENT [1] - 1991:16 dependent [1] - 2022:22 deprived [2] - 2006:7, 2007:25 DEPUTY [3] - 1996:5, 2019:23, 2039:1 der [9] - 2016:3, 2025:15, 2040:13, 2040:16, 2041:9, 2042:22, 2045:2, 2045:5, 2045:8 describes [1] - 2004:18 detail [3] - 1996:3, 2004:23, 2015:2 detailed [1] - 1996:1 details [1] - 2005:10 detain [2] - 2006:3, 2007:22 detention [5] - 2005:24, 2007:10, 2007:11, 2007:13, 2007:19 determine [1] - 2068:19 diagnosis [1] - 2057:15 different [9] - 2014:23, 2015:1, 2017:1, 2024:4, 2026:23, 2045:13, 2064:1, 2064:8, 2065:14 differently [2] - 2017:4, 2052:2 difficult [2] - 2004:22, 2070:20 direct [4] - 2028:10, 2061:17, 2061:20, 2064:24 DIRECT [1] - 1993:2 directed [4] - 2028:4, 2032:9, 2032:10, 2060:21 directing [4] - 1999:17, 2032:20, 2032:21, 2033:8 direction [15] - 2059:15, 2059:16, 2060:10, 2060:23, 2062:9, 2062:10, 2062:16, 2062:22, 2062:23, 2063:1, 2063:2, 2063:3, 2063:21, 2063:23, 2066:11 directly [4] - 2025:21, 2048:17, 2054:20, 2054:21 directs [1] - 2032:16 discuss [3] - 2065:21, 2067:18 discussed [5] - 1994:17, 2004:23, 2024:22, 2050:7, 2051:17 discussion [5] - 2022:5, 2023:18, 2023:21, 2026:2, 2070:6 dispute [1] - 2002:17 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 276 of 285 2076 disputed [1] - 2003:1 disrespectful [1] - 2004:20 DISTRICT [4] - 1991:1, 1991:1, 1991:10, 1991:14 doctor's [1] - 2057:15 doctrine [1] - 2010:1 document [41] - 1994:20, 1995:13, 1996:15, 1996:20, 1996:24, 1999:12, 2001:20, 2005:6, 2010:8, 2011:9, 2011:11, 2013:9, 2014:24, 2015:8, 2015:25, 2016:2, 2020:3, 2020:5, 2021:13, 2027:15, 2028:4, 2028:5, 2028:22, 2036:19, 2037:9, 2037:17, 2039:25, 2042:7, 2050:23, 2050:25, 2051:6, 2051:22, 2052:10, 2052:11, 2052:12, 2052:13, 2056:18, 2065:17 documents [18] - 2013:1, 2014:23, 2019:17, 2030:14, 2032:24, 2037:8, 2040:3, 2041:7, 2041:10, 2041:15, 2041:19, 2042:7, 2042:8, 2042:9, 2042:21, 2043:10, 2050:1, 2063:18 done [9] - 1999:19, 2031:15, 2033:21, 2034:24, 2047:3, 2047:13, 2056:22, 2065:6, 2068:17 door [1] - 2067:25 down [9] - 2002:24, 2012:17, 2014:25, 2015:11, 2030:13, 2034:20, 2037:2, 2049:22, 2053:13 draft [5] - 1996:16, 1998:9, 2001:21, 2001:24, 2002:4 Draft [1] - 2013:9 drew [1] - 2002:20 drill [1] - 2030:17 driven [1] - 2009:22 due [2] - 2003:18, 2004:14 duly [1] - 1994:12 during [10] - 2005:2, 2005:25, 2008:13, 2008:20, 2008:24, 2013:2, 2023:19, 2033:3, 2050:11, 2065:21 duty [3] - 2069:8, 2069:14, 2069:16 DX [1] - 2013:19 E e-mail [24] - 1994:19, 1994:21, 1996:10, 1996:16, 1999:17, 2011:4, 2012:19, 2013:15, 2016:11, 2017:7, 2018:18, 2018:22, 2025:6, 2025:16, 2034:4, 2040:17, 2043:3, 2043:9, 2054:13, 2060:14, 2061:10, 2062:5, 2063:20 eager [1] - 2070:14 early [5] - 2038:10, 2038:12, 2039:17, 2043:2, 2050:5 East [3] - 1991:20, 2050:17, 2050:19 ECFMU [3] - 2045:16, 2046:11, 2046:13 edit [2] - 1998:2, 1998:4 edits [2] - 2011:13, 2040:5 effort [2] - 2017:16, 2022:20 efforts [2] - 2018:11, 2054:7 Egypt [6] - 2034:11, 2050:4, 2050:14, 2050:15, 2050:18, 2065:15 either [5] - 2028:12, 2028:23, 2032:16, 2046:23, 2050:4 elements [2] - 2003:4, 2069:14 elicited [3] - 2053:18, 2055:9, 2065:4 email [2] - 2040:1, 2042:12 emanating [1] - 2023:9 employed [1] - 2028:1 end [3] - 2022:15, 2063:17, 2065:23 ended [1] - 2007:13 engaged [1] - 2004:20 Engagement [1] - 2014:6 engagement [1] - 2021:15 enlarge [1] - 2018:17 ensure [1] - 2043:4 entire [6] - 1995:20, 1995:21, 1995:22, 2006:4, 2007:22, 2033:3 entirely [1] - 2006:12 entirety [1] - 2041:11 entitled [1] - 2040:8 Esq [4] - 1991:19, 1991:19, 1991:22, 1991:23 essence [1] - 2004:3 establish [2] - 2031:16, 2056:17 established [2] - 2004:7, 2009:25 etc [2] - 2001:3, 2041:22 Europe [2] - 2021:17, 2028:7 European [1] - 2008:11 evening [3] - 2067:13, 2067:14, 2068:1 event [1] - 2049:15 eventually [1] - 2003:20 evidence [10] - 1994:18, 2002:18, 2002:19, 2002:21, 2010:2, 2016:8, 2040:22, 2064:13, 2065:20, 2070:22 evidentiary [1] - 2032:23 exactly [5] - 2002:6, 2017:13, 2018:15, 2054:8, 2056:24 examination [8] - 2008:15, 2043:19, 2048:8, 2053:17, 2054:12, 2059:12, 2065:1, 2069:24 EXAMINATION [2] - 1994:13, 2042:18 examine [1] - 2058:5 examined [3] - 1994:12, 2033:3, 2033:4 examining [1] - 2008:8 except [1] - 2023:13 exception [1] - 2054:19 excess [1] - 2047:4 exchanging [2] - 2013:1, 2030:14 excuse [2] - 1998:19, 2060:9 excused [3] - 2038:23, 2067:4, 2067:6 executive [4] - 1997:6, 2000:24, 2001:23, 2010:7 exercise [3] - 2008:13, 2030:17, 2038:12 EXHIBIT [1] - 1993:5 exhibit [3] - 2019:21, 2019:24, 2039:23 Exhibit [32] - 1994:15, 1995:8, 1996:4, 1998:24, 1999:6, 1999:24, 2000:2, 2000:3, 2012:15, 2014:20, 2015:24, 2016:5, 2017:24, 2018:15, 2019:15, 2019:22, 2023:4, 2025:4, 2027:14, 2028:18, 2030:8, 2031:1, 2034:3, 2036:7, 2036:20, 2039:24, 2041:1, 2041:13, 2050:3, 2051:4 existence [1] - 2002:11 expect [2] - 2068:16, 2069:3 expected [1] - 2068:23 experience [1] - 2004:7 expertise [2] - 2003:5, 2049:24 explain [2] - 2048:11, 2053:22 explained [1] - 2056:25 explains [1] - 2057:16 expressed [1] - 2006:2 expressing [1] - 2016:17 extensive [1] - 2053:11 extent [1] - 2070:9 extremely [1] - 2062:8 F facility [1] - 2007:12 fact [15] - 2002:19, 2005:25, 2010:23, 2018:7, 2019:12, 2032:19, 2032:23, 2037:8, 2046:16, 2050:7, 2053:23, 2057:16, 2058:1, 2066:19 facts [5] - 1994:23, 1995:23, 2001:3, 2002:17, 2007:14 Factual [1] - 2001:2 factual [1] - 2001:5 failed [1] - 2033:16 failing [1] - 2008:9 fair [10] - 2005:20, 2007:2, 2016:21, 2018:19, 2025:10, 2031:13, 2032:17, 2049:4, 2064:6, 2069:7 fairly [1] - 2005:13 fairness [3] - 2004:8, 2005:15, 2009:4 falls [1] - 2054:19 far [3] - 2018:8, 2029:25, 2056:25 faster [1] - 2007:7 favor [6] - 2056:12, 2056:13, 2057:4, 2058:11, 2058:14 feet [1] - 2032:15 Fernando [1] - 1991:12 few [5] - 2030:15, 2035:4, 2035:11, 2038:9, 2042:20 file [1] - 2040:8 filled [1] - 1995:5 final [3] - 2001:21, 2001:23, 2022:22 finder [1] - 2002:18 findings [4] - 1997:4, 1997:5, 2002:19, 2049:19 finish [2] - 2032:13, 2058:4 finished [2] - 2018:5, 2018:8 fire [1] - 2030:17 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 277 of 285 2077 firm [2] - 2015:14, 2043:7 firms [5] - 2027:21, 2045:12, 2045:14, 2050:10, 2051:17 first [23] - 1994:19, 1994:20, 1999:16, 2001:1, 2001:14, 2002:15, 2005:12, 2011:6, 2011:12, 2013:7, 2013:8, 2026:10, 2045:19, 2046:2, 2048:5, 2050:23, 2050:25, 2051:21, 2052:8, 2052:13, 2059:25, 2063:5, 2065:16 five [3] - 2068:9, 2068:11, 2068:15 fix [1] - 2031:20 flight [1] - 2007:16 flying [1] - 2050:18 folks [1] - 2018:8 following [3] - 2025:25, 2033:24, 2046:22 follows [1] - 1994:12 FOR [2] - 1991:1, 1991:13 form [10] - 1997:13, 1997:16, 1999:25, 2011:21, 2016:16, 2016:19, 2019:20, 2024:13, 2035:14, 2041:13 format [1] - 2062:1 former [3] - 2009:17, 2017:18, 2043:7 forth [1] - 2013:1 forward [1] - 2018:23 forwarded [4] - 2011:1, 2016:2, 2040:12, 2041:8 forwarding [3] - 1995:10, 1995:11, 1996:11 four [2] - 2068:10, 2068:16 Fourth [1] - 1991:14 front [3] - 1995:13, 1999:24, 2063:12 frustrate [1] - 2012:7 FTI [3] - 2029:4, 2031:15, 2033:21 Fule [1] - 2023:13 full [2] - 1995:4, 2000:7 funnel [1] - 2069:23 future [2] - 2009:24, 2054:18 FYI [1] - 2016:13 G GASTON [1] - 2067:9 Gaston [1] - 1991:13 gates [13] - 1994:6, 1999:24, 2007:9, 2015:25, 2025:24, 2033:16, 2039:7, 2056:6, 2056:7, 2057:13, 2060:16, 2060:17, 2062:16 GATES [2] - 1993:3, 1994:11 Gates [7] - 1994:15, 2002:10, 2016:10, 2061:12, 2063:22, 2066:11 gather [1] - 2020:14 GC [2] - 2014:2, 2034:24 general [5] - 2015:16, 2022:19, 2026:2, 2026:7, 2053:13 generally [2] - 2013:16, 2053:20 generated [1] - 2032:23 gentleman [1] - 2033:4 gentlemen [1] - 2047:19 gesture [1] - 2032:11 given [6] - 2003:16, 2030:19, 2041:21, 2041:22, 2060:11, 2067:21 gmail [3] - 2041:3, 2042:22, 2043:14 Gordon [1] - 2029:14 Government [6] - 1991:12, 1995:8, 2025:4, 2034:3, 2039:24, 2050:2 government [14] - 1996:5, 1996:6, 2009:18, 2015:5, 2015:6, 2036:7, 2046:11, 2046:14, 2046:21, 2047:3, 2047:5, 2065:10, 2069:3, 2069:14 government's [3] - 2019:23, 2019:24, 2054:7 Government's [4] - 2000:3, 2019:15, 2040:25, 2051:4 great [3] - 2015:15, 2015:17, 2053:7 green [1] - 2030:19 Greg [8] - 2014:13, 2022:16, 2022:25, 2023:11, 2024:1, 2034:24, 2041:4, 2049:7 Greg's [1] - 2022:7 Gregory [1] - 2039:2 GREGORY [1] - 1991:5 grid [8] - 2012:20, 2013:4, 2015:2, 2020:22, 2021:11, 2034:7, 2040:9, 2042:15 grids [1] - 2013:17 ground [1] - 2014:1 group [9] - 1997:22, 1997:23, 1998:7, 2026:16, 2026:21, 2026:23, 2054:15, 2054:16 Group [3] - 2045:20, 2045:22, 2046:1 guess [2] - 2013:13, 2014:19 guilty [1] - 2003:8 Gulland [1] - 1991:13 Guy [1] - 2019:7 guy [1] - 2022:13 H hacked [2] - 2043:3, 2043:9 hand [4] - 2002:5, 2004:3, 2010:8, 2013:9 hand-picked [1] - 2004:3 happy [4] - 2007:3, 2031:6, 2031:20, 2031:22 hard [1] - 2012:3 Harvard [16] - 2019:13, 2019:17, 2020:20, 2021:23, 2022:16, 2023:9, 2023:17, 2024:16, 2025:21, 2025:23, 2025:25, 2035:13, 2035:17, 2044:19, 2048:1, 2050:7 Hawker [70] - 1994:22, 1995:5, 1995:10, 1996:1, 1996:10, 1998:2, 2000:7, 2011:9, 2011:11, 2012:19, 2013:14, 2014:21, 2016:3, 2016:12, 2016:17, 2017:15, 2020:13, 2025:6, 2025:14, 2025:22, 2026:17, 2027:4, 2027:15, 2028:12, 2030:10, 2033:2, 2034:4, 2034:25, 2036:7, 2036:21, 2037:9, 2037:18, 2040:2, 2040:12, 2040:19, 2040:22, 2041:2, 2041:8, 2041:9, 2045:4, 2048:13, 2048:16, 2048:19, 2049:21, 2060:11, 2060:12, 2060:17, 2061:3, 2061:10, 2061:13, 2061:21, 2061:23, 2062:3, 2062:5, 2062:11, 2062:13, 2062:17, 2062:19, 2062:22, 2062:24, 2063:4, 2063:7, 2063:19, 2066:12, 2066:20 Hawker's [7] - 2010:17, 2013:25, 2017:12, 2021:7, 2035:6, 2035:8, 2035:9 head [2] - 2009:17, 2045:19 headed [2] - 2069:20, 2070:10 header [1] - 2042:15 heading [1] - 2001:2 headline [6] - 1998:10, 1998:17, 2010:10, 2017:17, 2017:21, 2017:22 heads [1] - 2054:25 hear [6] - 2024:3, 2024:7, 2033:12, 2037:12, 2054:22, 2068:13 heard [15] - 2014:16, 2023:25, 2026:9, 2034:15, 2035:4, 2035:20, 2038:7, 2048:9, 2053:3, 2053:14, 2057:1, 2060:24, 2061:17, 2069:20, 2070:10 hearsay [25] - 2052:20, 2053:5, 2053:11, 2053:15, 2053:18, 2053:19, 2053:24, 2054:1, 2054:6, 2054:19, 2055:5, 2055:13, 2056:23, 2057:1, 2057:7, 2057:16, 2057:20, 2057:22, 2057:23, 2059:9, 2060:22, 2061:24, 2062:6, 2063:12, 2064:16 help [1] - 2051:15 helpful [3] - 2069:11, 2069:15, 2070:7 helps [1] - 2051:24 hide [1] - 2047:18 high [1] - 2012:3 higher [1] - 2070:12 highlight [2] - 2009:20, 2033:17 highly [1] - 2043:6 himself [2] - 2046:10, 2046:13 hint [1] - 2062:1 hold [1] - 2041:3 honestly [1] - 1995:22 Honor [25] - 1994:10, 1999:14, 2005:18, 2005:19, 2006:11, 2006:17, 2011:1, 2016:4, 2021:4, 2031:10, 2032:22, 2038:9, 2039:1, 2042:17, 2047:23, 2051:18, 2054:2, 2059:3, 2059:8, 2061:2, 2065:5, 2066:8, 2067:3, 2067:10, 2070:16 HONORABLE [1] - 1991:9 hopeful [1] - 2068:18 hopefully [1] - 2067:24 hundred [1] - 2056:10 Hunt [4] - 2028:8, 2029:3, 2030:22, 2058:15 hunt [4] - 2029:9, 2051:9, 2052:15, 2068:7 hypothetical [1] - 1995:2 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 278 of 285 2078 I i.e [1] - 2009:23 idea [5] - 2015:9, 2015:16, 2017:15, 2028:19, 2049:15 identified [8] - 2008:22, 2008:25, 2013:19, 2014:17, 2019:16, 2029:15, 2029:17, 2038:3 identifier [1] - 2043:16 identifies [1] - 2000:20 identify [1] - 2068:11 identifying [2] - 2001:9, 2036:14 III [1] - 1991:22 immediately [2] - 2022:24, 2031:15 imminent [1] - 2018:1 implication [4] - 2063:13, 2063:16, 2065:11, 2065:17 implore [1] - 2063:9 importance [1] - 2069:25 important [2] - 2009:12, 2063:8 impose [1] - 2070:3 impression [1] - 2063:10 improper [1] - 2009:23 inadmissible [2] - 2053:20, 2056:22 inappropriate [1] - 2066:1 inappropriately [2] - 2006:7, 2007:25 incarcerate [1] - 2007:11 incentive [1] - 2047:17 include [1] - 2033:24 included [1] - 2028:11 includes [1] - 2040:5 including [3] - 2054:16, 2054:17, 2069:14 indeed [2] - 2049:10, 2051:8 Independent [2] - 1998:10, 2010:10 independent [3] - 2011:18, 2046:11, 2046:14 indicated [6] - 2026:17, 2032:11, 2033:10, 2035:12, 2049:6, 2049:23 indication [1] - 2063:19 individuals [1] - 2029:19 indulgence [1] - 2066:22 inference [2] - 2065:24, 2065:25 inferences [1] - 2002:20 information [12] - 1998:18, 2011:17, 2028:10, 2028:13, 2031:25, 2043:5, 2043:6, 2043:8, 2058:21, 2063:6, 2066:19, 2069:22 initial [1] - 1998:3 input [3] - 2027:23, 2028:2, 2028:3 inside [2] - 2015:5, 2054:25 instances [3] - 2002:20, 2037:10, 2043:5 instead [1] - 2009:24 instructed [1] - 2061:10 instruction [2] - 2064:15, 2069:12 instructions [2] - 2044:6, 2070:5 integrity [1] - 2043:4 intended [1] - 2015:10 intends [1] - 2069:12 intention [1] - 2054:18 interested [2] - 1997:11, 1997:25 interpretation [1] - 2010:17 interviewed [1] - 2008:23 interviews [1] - 2047:3 introduced [1] - 2064:24 investigation [1] - 2008:21 investigator [1] - 2008:24 investigators [1] - 2047:5 invisible [1] - 2031:25 involved [3] - 2029:10, 2043:23, 2045:12 involvement [1] - 2043:7 irrelevant [1] - 2055:12 issue [15] - 2003:2, 2003:11, 2004:1, 2009:12, 2017:17, 2024:8, 2025:18, 2025:19, 2025:21, 2065:7, 2066:7, 2069:9, 2069:12, 2070:4 issues [6] - 2002:18, 2056:16, 2069:5, 2069:10, 2069:24, 2070:20 item [2] - 2023:11, 2041:20 items [3] - 1996:1, 2023:9, 2023:10 Items [1] - 2023:5 iteration [4] - 2017:15, 2032:24 iterations [2] - 1999:4, 2039:20 J JACKSON [1] - 1991:9 jail [1] - 2005:25 James [1] - 1991:19 Jason [1] - 1991:16 John [16] - 1996:23, 1998:24, 2003:25, 2009:20, 2010:9, 2011:6, 2012:16, 2016:15, 2018:17, 2021:12, 2023:8, 2029:14, 2033:19, 2036:13, 2036:25, 2041:18 Jon [1] - 1995:11 Jonathan [2] - 1998:18, 2023:22 journalist [12] - 2017:7, 2017:14, 2026:7, 2033:24, 2034:1, 2038:3, 2058:14, 2063:2, 2063:5, 2063:6, 2066:12, 2066:17 journalists [6] - 2023:20, 2027:25, 2028:6, 2048:6, 2049:16, 2058:12 Judge [2] - 2009:1, 2009:2 JUDGE [1] - 1991:10 judge [2] - 2004:2, 2004:3 judge's [1] - 2004:7 judgment [1] - 2010:22 July [1] - 2005:15 JUNGHANS [91] - 1994:10, 1994:14, 1996:6, 1996:8, 1997:15, 1997:23, 1997:24, 1998:19, 1998:23, 1999:3, 1999:5, 1999:14, 1999:19, 1999:22, 1999:23, 2000:3, 2000:5, 2001:25, 2002:6, 2002:9, 2003:23, 2003:24, 2005:9, 2005:18, 2005:22, 2006:17, 2006:24, 2007:3, 2007:6, 2007:8, 2011:1, 2011:6, 2011:8, 2011:23, 2012:10, 2012:22, 2012:23, 2016:4, 2016:9, 2016:25, 2017:4, 2017:5, 2019:24, 2020:1, 2021:10, 2024:24, 2025:3, 2026:22, 2026:24, 2027:2, 2027:8, 2031:3, 2031:6, 2031:20, 2031:22, 2032:2, 2032:22, 2033:12, 2033:15, 2035:8, 2035:10, 2035:16, 2038:9, 2038:16, 2039:6, 2042:4, 2042:9, 2042:14, 2047:21, 2049:1, 2051:18, 2052:20, 2055:6, 2055:14, 2055:18, 2055:22, 2058:23, 2059:8, 2059:11, 2059:20, 2060:9, 2060:12, 2060:15, 2061:5, 2061:9, 2061:14, 2061:16, 2061:25, 2062:20, 2066:8, 2068:13 Junghans [3] - 1991:23, 1994:9, 2054:12 juries [1] - 2004:13 jurors [3] - 1994:5, 2031:4, 2032:11 JURY [2] - 1991:5, 1991:9 jury [11] - 1994:3, 2004:12, 2004:13, 2033:8, 2038:17, 2039:3, 2047:19, 2063:10, 2063:12, 2065:11, 2067:23 Jury [4] - 1994:4, 2038:22, 2039:5, 2068:3 jury's [1] - 2033:10 Justice [4] - 1998:10, 2009:12, 2018:12, 2044:11 JUSTICE [1] - 1991:16 justifiable [1] - 2007:19 justification [2] - 2006:6, 2007:24 K KANESHIRO [1] - 1992:3 KANESHIRO-MILLER [1] - 1992:3 keep [3] - 2032:11, 2061:6, 2062:4 kept [1] - 2055:19 key [1] - 2036:15 Kilimnik [1] - 2040:1 kind [1] - 2065:7 Kireyev [1] - 2009:1 Kireyev's [1] - 2009:3 knocking [1] - 2067:25 knowledge [4] - 2023:15, 2037:24, 2043:25, 2059:16 known [1] - 2047:9 knows [1] - 2065:16 L lack [1] - 2070:9 ladies [1] - 2047:18 large [3] - 2008:22, 2020:3, 2020:5 largely [1] - 1997:7 last [12] - 1999:12, 2006:25, 2008:3, 2008:4, 2009:9, 2014:13, 2028:22, 2034:11, 2037:12, 2042:14, 2042:20 late [1] - 2050:4 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 279 of 285 2079 launch [2] - 2013:5, 2022:10 law [5] - 2002:25, 2003:3, 2003:8, 2008:11, 2043:6 lawyer [1] - 2017:19 lay [1] - 2053:13 lead [2] - 2062:7, 2062:14 leader [1] - 2009:18 leading [1] - 2057:3 leak [1] - 2036:15 learn [1] - 2050:4 learned [2] - 2026:14, 2039:17 least [3] - 2051:16, 2064:3, 2068:6 lecture [1] - 2057:23 led [1] - 2049:2 Lee [2] - 2037:3, 2037:14 left [3] - 2013:9, 2068:5, 2068:15 left-hand [1] - 2013:9 leftover [1] - 2037:15 legal [6] - 2002:25, 2003:3, 2008:10, 2008:11, 2013:10, 2070:4 legitimacy [1] - 2004:19 less [2] - 2049:3, 2068:25 level [2] - 2015:2, 2030:2 liberty [2] - 2006:7, 2008:1 lie [4] - 2032:15, 2046:10, 2046:13, 2047:18 lied [1] - 2045:16 lies [2] - 2046:23, 2047:6 life [1] - 2009:24 light [1] - 2030:19 likely [2] - 2007:14, 2068:10 line [4] - 2013:21, 2033:20, 2035:24 lines [1] - 2064:25 link [1] - 2064:5 list [9] - 2013:20, 2023:9, 2027:16, 2029:22, 2031:17, 2036:22, 2037:1, 2047:8, 2068:5 listed [1] - 2042:15 LLP [2] - 1991:20, 1991:23 log [1] - 2014:13 look [30] - 1994:19, 1995:8, 1996:4, 1996:15, 1998:24, 1999:7, 2011:6, 2013:21, 2016:23, 2017:6, 2018:15, 2023:3, 2023:4, 2024:22, 2025:4, 2027:13, 2028:24, 2029:1, 2030:10, 2030:21, 2032:7, 2034:3, 2039:22, 2039:25, 2040:25, 2041:13, 2051:4, 2055:22, 2058:2, 2067:17 looked [3] - 1999:6, 2035:24, 2058:20 looking [5] - 1994:17, 1998:25, 2003:15, 2017:21, 2051:14 looks [1] - 2041:17 looming [1] - 2070:2 lower [6] - 2012:17, 2016:10, 2018:17, 2029:1, 2034:20, 2039:25 Lyovochkin [1] - 2015:12 M ma'am [1] - 2059:1 mail [24] - 1994:19, 1994:21, 1996:10, 1996:16, 1999:17, 2011:4, 2012:19, 2013:15, 2016:11, 2017:7, 2018:18, 2018:22, 2025:6, 2025:16, 2034:4, 2040:17, 2043:3, 2043:9, 2054:13, 2060:14, 2061:10, 2062:5, 2063:20 maintain [1] - 2007:18 major [1] - 2068:6 Manafort [57] - 1996:11, 1996:18, 1998:4, 2011:3, 2015:7, 2018:20, 2018:22, 2025:14, 2026:17, 2026:19, 2027:6, 2034:4, 2040:1, 2040:5, 2044:3, 2044:10, 2044:23, 2048:15, 2048:23, 2048:24, 2048:25, 2049:5, 2049:6, 2049:10, 2054:3, 2054:16, 2054:18, 2058:21, 2059:6, 2060:4, 2060:20, 2060:24, 2061:2, 2061:7, 2061:8, 2061:10, 2061:12, 2061:20, 2062:2, 2062:3, 2062:5, 2062:10, 2062:16, 2062:22, 2063:4, 2063:10, 2063:13, 2063:24, 2064:14, 2064:23, 2065:2, 2065:3, 2065:11, 2066:2, 2066:3, 2066:11 Manafort's [6] - 2024:10, 2035:7, 2043:3, 2044:6, 2054:13, 2059:18 management [1] - 2004:21 marked [1] - 2015:23 Master [1] - 2040:8 master [5] - 2015:2, 2020:22, 2021:11, 2034:7, 2042:15 material [1] - 2024:22 matrix [2] - 2029:17, 2029:20 Matrix [1] - 2036:8 matter [9] - 2012:4, 2043:20, 2052:24, 2053:25, 2054:1, 2057:21, 2067:16, 2067:18, 2069:1 matters [1] - 2067:21 McCullough [1] - 1991:16 MCW [2] - 2029:4, 2029:7 MD [1] - 1991:21 mean [5] - 1996:18, 2030:13, 2038:18, 2048:11, 2063:17 meaningful [1] - 2070:6 meaningfully [1] - 2069:10 meant [1] - 2031:25 media [17] - 2021:15, 2022:15, 2027:11, 2035:22, 2036:4, 2037:2, 2041:25, 2044:13, 2044:14, 2044:16, 2044:24, 2045:3, 2045:11, 2048:13, 2050:24, 2051:11, 2058:16 meet [1] - 2025:8 meeting [35] - 2019:13, 2019:17, 2020:20, 2020:23, 2021:20, 2021:22, 2022:5, 2022:16, 2023:5, 2023:9, 2023:13, 2023:18, 2023:19, 2024:10, 2024:15, 2024:16, 2024:19, 2024:20, 2024:23, 2025:1, 2025:12, 2025:20, 2025:22, 2025:23, 2026:1, 2026:5, 2027:9, 2035:17, 2044:19, 2048:1, 2048:16, 2050:8, 2054:13, 2060:10, 2060:20 meetings [2] - 2034:12, 2060:7 members [2] - 2038:17, 2045:9 memos [1] - 1997:8 mention [1] - 2032:25 mentioned [3] - 2021:23, 2023:22, 2052:8 mentions [1] - 2065:23 Mercury [8] - 2029:7, 2036:11, 2037:6, 2037:9, 2045:15, 2045:22, 2046:5, 2051:1 merited [1] - 2007:15 merits [1] - 2009:19 message [1] - 2057:14 messages [2] - 2048:14, 2048:17 messaging [8] - 1996:15, 1996:16, 1996:24, 1997:8, 1999:12, 1999:13, 2002:13, 2010:8 met [2] - 2070:11, 2070:12 mid [1] - 2039:14 mid-December [1] - 2039:14 Middle [2] - 2050:17, 2050:19 middle [2] - 2041:20, 2055:2 midnight [1] - 2020:16 might [11] - 1997:11, 1998:1, 2007:4, 2017:17, 2026:6, 2027:25, 2028:3, 2035:13, 2043:15, 2055:20 MILLER [1] - 1992:3 mind [8] - 2024:1, 2024:3, 2024:7, 2024:9, 2024:12, 2026:9, 2026:11, 2057:17 Minister [1] - 2043:8 Minister's [1] - 2017:18 Ministry [4] - 1998:10, 2009:12, 2018:12, 2044:11 minutes [5] - 2038:10, 2038:14, 2038:20, 2038:24, 2064:3 misleading [1] - 2031:18 missed [1] - 1999:20 mix [1] - 2068:10 models [1] - 2023:24 MOJ [1] - 1996:22 Molly [1] - 1991:13 moment [3] - 1994:16, 2030:21, 2031:25 Monday [2] - 2068:17, 2069:4 months [2] - 2024:5, 2030:16 morning [6] - 2043:18, 2045:15, 2046:24, 2047:9, 2051:15, 2067:20 most [5] - 2003:15, 2009:11, 2043:13, 2065:9, 2068:15 motivated [5] - 1998:12, 2009:15, 2009:22, 2010:12, 2011:19 motivation [2] - 1994:18, 2010:3 mouth [2] - 2056:5, 2057:25 move [3] - 2016:4, 2047:23, 2059:11 MR [79] - 1997:13, 1997:16, 1997:20, 1999:1, 2001:16, 2001:18, 2001:20, 2002:2, 2006:11, 2006:15, 2010:20, Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 280 of 285 2080 2011:21, 2011:25, 2012:21, 2016:6, 2016:19, 2021:4, 2021:6, 2021:8, 2024:13, 2031:1, 2031:4, 2031:7, 2031:10, 2035:14, 2042:17, 2042:19, 2046:4, 2047:23, 2047:25, 2049:8, 2051:23, 2052:3, 2052:5, 2052:6, 2053:6, 2053:8, 2053:10, 2053:16, 2054:2, 2054:10, 2056:8, 2056:14, 2056:17, 2056:21, 2056:22, 2057:7, 2057:9, 2057:13, 2058:5, 2058:9, 2059:3, 2059:4, 2059:23, 2060:3, 2060:6, 2061:1, 2061:8, 2061:15, 2061:18, 2062:25, 2063:8, 2064:14, 2064:18, 2065:5, 2066:10, 2066:16, 2066:22, 2066:24, 2067:2, 2068:9, 2068:14, 2068:22, 2068:25, 2069:3, 2069:7, 2070:3, 2070:14, 2070:16 MS [92] - 1994:10, 1994:14, 1996:6, 1996:8, 1997:15, 1997:23, 1997:24, 1998:19, 1998:23, 1999:3, 1999:5, 1999:14, 1999:19, 1999:22, 1999:23, 2000:3, 2000:5, 2001:25, 2002:6, 2002:9, 2003:23, 2003:24, 2005:9, 2005:18, 2005:22, 2006:17, 2006:24, 2007:3, 2007:6, 2007:8, 2011:1, 2011:6, 2011:8, 2011:23, 2012:10, 2012:22, 2012:23, 2016:4, 2016:9, 2016:25, 2017:4, 2017:5, 2019:24, 2020:1, 2021:10, 2024:24, 2025:3, 2026:22, 2026:24, 2027:2, 2027:8, 2031:3, 2031:6, 2031:20, 2031:22, 2032:2, 2032:22, 2033:12, 2033:15, 2035:8, 2035:10, 2035:16, 2038:9, 2038:16, 2039:6, 2042:4, 2042:9, 2042:14, 2047:21, 2049:1, 2051:18, 2052:20, 2055:6, 2055:14, 2055:18, 2055:22, 2058:23, 2059:8, 2059:11, 2059:20, 2060:9, 2060:12, 2060:15, 2061:5, 2061:9, 2061:14, 2061:16, 2061:25, 2062:20, 2066:8, 2067:9, 2068:13 multiple [3] - 2042:7, 2042:8, 2042:9 Murphy [1] - 1991:19 MURPHY [3] - 2021:4, 2021:6, 2021:8 must [1] - 2008:13 Myers [2] - 2037:4, 2037:14 Myers' [1] - 2037:18 N name [12] - 2021:24, 2037:18, 2043:15, 2046:2, 2050:23, 2051:16, 2051:21, 2052:8, 2056:18, 2058:17, 2064:15, 2065:17 narrow [1] - 2010:1 nature [1] - 2055:3 necessarily [1] - 2065:24 necessary [1] - 2003:3 need [5] - 2032:7, 2038:18, 2055:10, 2057:23, 2058:2 needed [2] - 2049:19, 2049:24 needle [1] - 2070:21 never [8] - 2017:22, 2023:15, 2023:25, 2034:15, 2060:12, 2060:16, 2060:18 nevertheless [2] - 2018:11, 2019:9 new [2] - 2008:10, 2040:8 New [2] - 2021:8, 2037:3 news [2] - 2067:16, 2067:17 next [25] - 1996:23, 1997:9, 2000:17, 2000:19, 2003:25, 2004:1, 2004:11, 2004:17, 2004:25, 2005:23, 2008:4, 2008:20, 2014:10, 2023:7, 2026:14, 2032:13, 2034:10, 2036:13, 2036:25, 2037:3, 2047:22, 2052:4, 2052:5, 2059:2, 2066:7 nice [1] - 2011:23 night [2] - 2021:6, 2021:8 nobody [3] - 2032:3, 2049:20, 2056:4 non [1] - 2063:12 non-hearsay [1] - 2063:12 none [2] - 2015:22, 2057:23 nonetheless [1] - 2055:19 note [3] - 2013:8, 2065:8, 2069:21 notes [3] - 2023:4, 2023:10, 2050:2 nothing [2] - 2024:25, 2042:5 notice [2] - 1994:21, 2029:2 notified [1] - 2041:2 notion [1] - 2032:14 November [1] - 2039:12 NR [1] - 1996:16 nuanced [1] - 2057:24 number [6] - 2001:1, 2008:22, 2019:21, 2023:23, 2043:5, 2044:13 Number [1] - 2039:1 numbers [1] - 2034:22 NW [4] - 1991:14, 1991:17, 1991:24, 1992:4 O oath [1] - 1994:7 object [4] - 2016:19, 2032:6, 2053:11, 2057:3 objected [2] - 2053:14, 2061:18 objection [27] - 1997:13, 1997:19, 2005:6, 2006:11, 2010:20, 2011:21, 2011:25, 2016:6, 2024:13, 2031:1, 2035:14, 2047:21, 2049:1, 2051:18, 2052:20, 2053:14, 2053:19, 2054:23, 2055:5, 2058:23, 2059:8, 2059:20, 2064:25, 2065:9, 2066:3, 2067:13 Objection [1] - 1997:16 objectionable [1] - 2062:2 objective [2] - 2007:19, 2009:23 obviously [1] - 2069:12 occasion [3] - 1998:2, 1998:4, 2043:4 occurred [2] - 2023:19, 2054:3 October [5] - 2036:21, 2039:10, 2050:5, 2051:14, 2058:17 OF [5] - 1991:1, 1991:3, 1991:9, 1991:14, 1991:16 offense [1] - 2003:4 offered [2] - 2002:18, 2057:21 Office [1] - 2047:6 office [1] - 2054:13 OFFICE [1] - 1991:13 officials [2] - 2014:11, 2030:2 often [1] - 2048:13 once [1] - 2067:15 one [38] - 1996:2, 1998:20, 1999:6, 2003:25, 2004:11, 2004:17, 2004:25, 2005:10, 2005:23, 2006:25, 2007:2, 2008:4, 2008:20, 2013:18, 2015:9, 2015:12, 2016:23, 2017:15, 2019:12, 2027:18, 2029:3, 2038:19, 2040:8, 2042:7, 2042:10, 2042:14, 2044:18, 2049:23, 2051:12, 2055:20, 2055:24, 2055:25, 2056:23, 2056:25, 2059:13, 2068:6 ones [1] - 2058:17 open [5] - 2002:8, 2007:13, 2033:14, 2058:8, 2066:9 open-ended [1] - 2007:13 operating [1] - 2028:14 opine [1] - 2009:21 opinion [4] - 2001:14, 2002:16, 2003:7, 2056:2 opinions [1] - 2055:11 opponent [1] - 2009:16 opportunity [2] - 2003:10, 2020:19 opposed [2] - 2042:24, 2046:8 opposition [1] - 2009:19 order [5] - 1995:23, 2007:18, 2009:16, 2042:12, 2068:23 ordinary [1] - 2070:4 organized [3] - 2000:15, 2006:20, 2025:11 original [1] - 2037:17 out-of-court [3] - 2057:19, 2057:20 outlet [1] - 2036:15 outlined [1] - 2023:24 outreach [2] - 2027:16, 2037:1 outside [1] - 2015:6 overly [1] - 2068:17 overturn [1] - 2010:3 own [4] - 2017:19, 2059:16, 2063:22, 2070:12 P p.m [2] - 2021:6, 2070:25 P.M [1] - 1994:2 package [1] - 2042:10 packet [1] - 2041:11 PAGE [1] - 1993:5 page [46] - 1994:19, 1994:20, 1996:23, 1997:9, 1998:9, 1998:24, 1998:25, 1999:7, 2000:12, 2000:16, 2000:17, 2000:19, 2000:23, 2001:5, 2001:8, 2010:10, 2011:6, 2012:17, 2013:7, Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 281 of 285 2081 2013:19, 2014:10, 2014:13, 2021:12, 2021:13, 2023:5, 2023:8, 2028:5, 2028:6, 2029:1, 2030:21, 2031:3, 2034:10, 2034:20, 2036:13, 2036:25, 2037:2, 2037:3, 2041:18, 2041:19, 2041:20, 2042:6, 2042:13, 2051:12 pages [3] - 2004:22, 2005:10, 2041:15 pages' [1] - 2020:2 paid [2] - 2015:1, 2044:1 paper [5] - 1995:13, 1999:25, 2019:20, 2041:13, 2065:19 paragraph [2] - 2003:14, 2006:14 pardon [3] - 1997:15, 2020:4, 2029:16 part [12] - 2009:20, 2012:17, 2018:17, 2020:23, 2022:15, 2023:21, 2023:23, 2025:14, 2034:21, 2037:12, 2047:11, 2051:9 participate [2] - 2064:9, 2064:10 participated [1] - 2060:7 particular [2] - 2015:10, 2059:15 particularly [3] - 2027:25, 2038:2, 2043:7 parties [3] - 1997:11, 1997:25, 2003:1 pass [8] - 2062:13, 2062:17, 2062:18, 2062:24, 2063:4, 2063:6, 2066:19 past [1] - 2058:3 pasted [1] - 2016:11 path [1] - 2049:22 patience [1] - 2057:9 PATRICIA [1] - 1992:3 Paul [4] - 1996:18, 2025:12, 2040:5, 2064:14 Paul's [1] - 2025:8 Paula [1] - 1991:23 Pause [1] - 2066:23 pay [1] - 2067:16 payment [2] - 2044:1, 2044:4 pdf [6] - 1998:24, 2000:12, 2000:23, 2021:13, 2028:6, 2028:24 pdfs [1] - 2042:11 Pennsylvania [1] - 1991:17 people [10] - 2021:17, 2032:23, 2036:11, 2043:13, 2049:25, 2054:24, 2054:25, 2055:7, 2063:16 people's [1] - 2054:25 percent [1] - 2056:10 perfect [1] - 2055:22 period [3] - 2013:2, 2064:1, 2065:22 permit [1] - 2009:1 permitted [4] - 2008:25, 2057:13, 2065:10, 2065:21 person [10] - 2027:1, 2028:8, 2037:3, 2044:8, 2045:22, 2049:23, 2053:3, 2058:11, 2064:21, 2064:22 personal [3] - 2043:9, 2046:8, 2059:16 personalized [1] - 2043:15 personally [5] - 2024:2, 2030:7, 2032:10, 2032:21, 2061:2 Philip [1] - 2029:14 phone [2] - 2056:8, 2060:7 phrase [1] - 2017:4 physical [1] - 2050:25 picked [1] - 2004:3 piece [1] - 2065:19 pieces [1] - 1995:4 Pinchuk [1] - 2043:25 PJM [1] - 1996:16 place [2] - 2021:20, 2064:2 placeholder [2] - 2037:19, 2037:20 plan [19] - 1999:13, 2002:5, 2010:24, 2022:15, 2022:23, 2022:25, 2028:22, 2029:11, 2036:8, 2037:22, 2038:5, 2039:20, 2041:25, 2044:16, 2044:24, 2045:3, 2045:11, 2061:3 plans [5] - 2027:11, 2044:14, 2050:24, 2058:16 pleadings [1] - 2069:17 pleasant [1] - 2068:1 Podesta [12] - 2036:11, 2037:7, 2037:9, 2045:15, 2045:19, 2045:21, 2046:1, 2046:3, 2046:10, 2046:16 point [16] - 1995:1, 2017:25, 2028:14, 2030:12, 2031:13, 2031:24, 2033:1, 2033:5, 2033:6, 2035:25, 2037:22, 2048:4, 2048:12, 2049:16, 2066:4, 2069:20 pointed [1] - 2033:16 points [3] - 2001:1, 2004:22, 2024:4 political [10] - 1994:18, 2009:11, 2009:16, 2009:23, 2009:24, 2010:2, 2034:12, 2034:19, 2035:22, 2035:25 politically [5] - 1998:11, 2009:15, 2009:22, 2010:11, 2011:19 popping [1] - 2061:6 portion [6] - 1994:17, 2016:10, 2029:1, 2039:25, 2041:22, 2065:9 portions [1] - 2005:3 posed [1] - 2070:22 position [2] - 2044:9, 2048:6 positions [1] - 2054:17 possibly [2] - 2023:13, 2036:15 potentially [2] - 2022:7, 2058:20 PR [5] - 2023:5, 2045:12, 2050:10, 2050:24, 2051:17 practice [1] - 2007:21 Pratt [1] - 1991:20 precedent [1] - 2009:25 precise [1] - 2062:1 precisely [1] - 2065:21 prejudice [2] - 2005:7, 2005:16 preparation [1] - 1998:3 prepare [2] - 2003:11, 2003:16 prepared [3] - 2010:9, 2027:22, 2041:12 preparing [1] - 1996:1 presence [1] - 2060:21 present [10] - 1994:4, 1994:5, 2006:19, 2009:3, 2009:6, 2038:22, 2039:5, 2048:16, 2053:1, 2068:3 presentation [1] - 2008:20 presented [1] - 2007:16 presenting [1] - 2006:21 President [2] - 2015:13, 2019:6 presidential [1] - 2009:18 presumption [1] - 2028:15 pretty [4] - 1995:6, 2018:5, 2041:2, 2041:17 previous [2] - 1996:2, 2011:4 previously [1] - 2025:23 primarily [1] - 2027:20 primary [1] - 2048:12 Prime [2] - 2017:18, 2043:7 principles [1] - 2057:12 print [1] - 2042:12 printed [1] - 2042:9 private [1] - 2040:16 problem [2] - 2055:8, 2056:20 problematic [1] - 2007:17 proceed [1] - 2069:12 proceeding [1] - 2008:21 Proceedings [2] - 1992:5, 2070:25 proceedings [2] - 2008:10, 2067:22 process [5] - 2003:18, 2004:15, 2028:1, 2047:12, 2051:9 produced [1] - 1992:6 project [8] - 1998:7, 2013:23, 2013:24, 2013:25, 2024:4, 2043:3, 2043:17, 2043:24 Project [1] - 1996:16 proposed [2] - 1998:9, 2037:1 prosecution [8] - 1999:8, 2009:9, 2009:11, 2009:15, 2009:17, 2009:22, 2010:1, 2064:24 Prosecutor's [1] - 2047:6 proved [1] - 2069:14 provided [5] - 1994:22, 2010:2, 2011:12, 2042:1, 2045:5 providing [1] - 2013:17 purpose [5] - 2015:14, 2024:18, 2024:20, 2063:11, 2063:12 purposes [2] - 2019:12, 2066:12 put [24] - 1997:8, 1997:10, 2005:2, 2005:25, 2011:7, 2022:20, 2027:18, 2027:20, 2029:20, 2030:20, 2031:19, 2032:7, 2032:25, 2033:3, 2033:5, 2037:6, 2037:18, 2041:18, 2042:12, 2050:23, 2054:7, 2054:11, 2064:15, 2064:20 puts [1] - 2061:3 putting [1] - 2029:17 Q QNA [1] - 1996:22 quarter [1] - 2067:24 questions [19] - 2018:19, 2031:9, 2042:20, 2043:19, 2044:13, 2044:14, 2045:15, 2045:17, 2046:23, 2048:3, 2048:8, 2056:12, 2060:1, 2062:15, Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 282 of 285 2082 2063:7, 2064:5, 2066:6, 2067:2 quick [1] - 2034:8 quickly [1] - 2041:2 quite [1] - 2005:8 quoting [1] - 1999:11 R raft [1] - 2041:9 raise [1] - 2005:15 raised [3] - 2005:5, 2019:1, 2056:16 raises [2] - 2006:6, 2007:24 rarely [1] - 2007:20 rather [3] - 2007:4, 2020:3, 2020:5 re [1] - 2039:1 re-calling [1] - 2039:1 reach [2] - 2028:15, 2037:22 reached [1] - 2059:14 reaches [2] - 2063:18, 2065:22 reaching [3] - 2037:25, 2038:1, 2038:2 react [2] - 2017:16, 2065:3 read [20] - 1995:19, 1995:21, 1995:22, 1995:24, 1997:6, 2002:16, 2003:20, 2005:12, 2006:13, 2006:16, 2007:3, 2007:4, 2008:6, 2009:10, 2011:15, 2011:19, 2012:12, 2020:19, 2031:22, 2034:8 reading [3] - 2001:23, 2002:4, 2006:19 real [1] - 2034:8 realize [1] - 2012:2 really [2] - 2062:4, 2067:9 reason [6] - 2018:21, 2043:1, 2053:4, 2058:18, 2058:19 reasons [1] - 2055:20 recapitulation [1] - 2032:18 receive [1] - 2045:4 received [3] - 2042:2, 2045:2, 2054:14 receiving [2] - 2020:7, 2043:6 Recess [1] - 2038:25 recognize [1] - 2016:1 recollection [6] - 2020:24, 2022:2, 2051:15, 2051:19, 2052:1, 2055:23 recommended [1] - 2057:14 record [8] - 2003:18, 2007:17, 2009:25, 2045:25, 2053:10, 2054:11, 2054:23, 2064:6 RECROSS [1] - 1993:2 recurring [1] - 2070:1 redirect [5] - 2042:16, 2049:4, 2053:18, 2054:22, 2058:3 REDIRECT [2] - 1993:2, 2042:18 reduced [1] - 2022:19 refer [1] - 2015:3 reference [3] - 2014:24, 2045:11, 2047:2 referenced [1] - 2015:13 referred [1] - 2019:6 referring [1] - 2051:6 refers [1] - 2013:23 refined [1] - 2068:4 reflect [1] - 2011:12 reflected [1] - 2050:2 reflects [1] - 2032:14 refresh [1] - 2051:15 refreshing [1] - 2052:1 refusal [1] - 2009:3 refused [2] - 2004:19, 2009:1 regardless [1] - 2054:3 regime [1] - 2009:17 related [3] - 1996:2, 2001:3, 2050:24 relationship [2] - 2022:7, 2022:14 relay [1] - 2048:15 relayed [1] - 2061:3 release [2] - 2017:25, 2030:17 released [5] - 1998:1, 2030:19, 2039:7, 2039:14, 2039:18 relevance [1] - 2033:5 relevant [2] - 2056:3, 2057:16 reluctance [1] - 2023:22 remain [1] - 2032:6 remember [1] - 2048:5 remind [1] - 1994:6 removal [2] - 2005:1, 2005:15 removals [1] - 2005:13 remove [1] - 2009:23 render [1] - 2003:7 renew [1] - 2059:20 repeat [2] - 2017:3, 2035:15 repeats [4] - 2014:13, 2021:14, 2021:16 repetition [2] - 2033:8, 2033:10 rephrase [1] - 2016:25 replowing [1] - 2032:17 report [60] - 1994:18, 1995:2, 1995:4, 1995:7, 1995:10, 1995:16, 1995:20, 1995:21, 1995:22, 1995:24, 1995:25, 1996:3, 1997:1, 1997:11, 1998:1, 1998:11, 1998:16, 1998:18, 1999:4, 1999:15, 1999:17, 2000:7, 2000:13, 2000:14, 2000:15, 2001:9, 2001:10, 2001:21, 2001:24, 2002:5, 2004:6, 2006:20, 2006:22, 2006:23, 2009:20, 2009:21, 2010:7, 2010:11, 2010:18, 2011:16, 2011:18, 2012:13, 2016:17, 2017:8, 2017:14, 2018:1, 2018:4, 2030:13, 2030:18, 2039:7, 2040:9, 2041:21, 2041:22, 2042:2, 2049:20, 2049:25, 2051:12, 2064:20, 2064:21 Report [3] - 2010:15, 2040:3, 2044:9 report's [1] - 2024:21 reported [2] - 1992:5, 2053:1 reporter [7] - 2017:16, 2017:17, 2022:1, 2022:6, 2026:1, 2029:8, 2036:15 Reporter [1] - 1992:3 reporters [1] - 2058:20 represent [1] - 2049:19 representation [5] - 2008:5, 2008:8, 2008:10, 2008:15, 2018:10 represented [1] - 2008:13 reprisal [1] - 2009:15 request [3] - 2004:12, 2008:23, 2008:24 requested [1] - 2015:7 requirements [1] - 2003:3 requires [1] - 2008:12 respect [3] - 2035:22, 2048:13, 2061:20 respects [1] - 2009:19 response [1] - 2018:24 responsibilities [1] - 2013:18 responsibility [1] - 2034:22 responsive [3] - 2054:20, 2054:21, 2056:16 rest [1] - 2069:3 result [2] - 2005:9, 2005:17 resume [3] - 1994:9, 2038:20, 2038:24 REV [1] - 1996:17 reversal [2] - 2048:9, 2049:13 reverse [1] - 2003:19 reversed [1] - 2035:12 reversing [2] - 2025:19, 2048:6 review [4] - 2006:6, 2007:24, 2024:21, 2028:6 reviewed [1] - 2020:22 revised [2] - 2011:2, 2036:12 revisions [3] - 1996:18, 1996:19, 2011:13 RICHARD [2] - 1993:3, 1994:11 rights [1] - 2017:19 risk [1] - 2007:17 risks [1] - 2033:7 RMR [1] - 1992:3 rollout [1] - 2045:3 room [3] - 2005:2, 2054:24, 2067:23 Room [1] - 1992:3 Rule [1] - 2069:10 ruled [2] - 2054:9 rules [1] - 2070:21 ruling [1] - 2009:17 run [3] - 2001:13, 2064:21 S SA [4] - 2027:16, 2031:15, 2033:22, 2040:9 safer [1] - 2043:11 SANCHEZ [54] - 1997:13, 1997:16, 1997:20, 1999:1, 2001:16, 2001:18, 2001:20, 2002:2, 2006:11, 2006:15, 2010:20, 2011:21, 2011:25, 2016:6, 2016:19, 2024:13, 2031:1, 2031:4, 2031:7, 2031:10, 2035:14, 2042:17, 2042:19, 2046:4, 2047:23, 2047:25, 2049:8, 2051:23, 2052:3, 2052:5, 2052:6, 2056:8, 2056:14, 2056:17, 2056:21, 2058:9, 2059:3, 2059:4, 2059:23, 2060:3, 2060:6, 2061:1, Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 283 of 285 2083 2061:8, 2061:15, 2061:18, 2062:25, 2066:10, 2066:16, 2066:22, 2066:24, 2067:2, 2068:9, 2068:14, 2068:22 Sanchez [1] - 1991:12 Sanger [26] - 2014:8, 2021:24, 2022:4, 2022:6, 2022:10, 2023:1, 2026:1, 2026:4, 2028:16, 2036:18, 2037:23, 2041:22, 2050:23, 2051:16, 2052:15, 2053:3, 2056:18, 2057:4, 2059:5, 2060:13, 2061:11, 2062:5, 2062:12, 2063:19, 2063:20, 2066:18 sanger [12] - 2051:8, 2052:19, 2056:13, 2058:11, 2059:14, 2060:16, 2060:21, 2061:21, 2062:13, 2062:18, 2065:22, 2066:25 Sanger's [4] - 2052:8, 2058:17, 2064:15, 2065:16 satisfy [1] - 2003:3 Saturday [2] - 2021:6, 2021:8 Saunders [1] - 2052:12 saw [1] - 2051:1 scenario [1] - 2016:18 scope [2] - 2003:4, 2059:12 scribes [1] - 2069:21 scroll [2] - 2012:17, 2036:25 scrutiny [1] - 2009:19 seated [1] - 1994:8 second [4] - 1998:20, 2000:14, 2002:24, 2016:23 secret [1] - 2064:12 section [2] - 1997:7, 2033:17 see [16] - 1994:24, 1995:23, 1997:5, 1998:14, 2000:14, 2000:15, 2010:13, 2012:24, 2017:8, 2017:14, 2034:13, 2036:22, 2040:10, 2041:6, 2051:24, 2054:25 seed [1] - 2022:8 seeded [1] - 2063:2 seeding [2] - 2051:9, 2066:13 seem [1] - 1999:13 segments [1] - 2034:6 selection [2] - 2004:1, 2004:7 selective [4] - 1999:8, 2009:9, 2009:11, 2010:1 send [6] - 2013:14, 2018:21, 2040:19, 2042:3, 2044:16, 2061:10 sending [4] - 1996:14, 2012:20, 2018:20, 2040:2 sensitive [1] - 2043:6 sent [18] - 1994:20, 1994:21, 2000:7, 2000:10, 2013:15, 2016:3, 2020:12, 2020:15, 2021:3, 2040:15, 2040:22, 2041:8, 2041:9, 2042:21, 2044:18, 2044:23, 2060:14, 2063:19 sentence [1] - 2005:12 sentencing [3] - 2006:5, 2007:13, 2007:24 separate [3] - 2007:16, 2042:11, 2050:13 separation [1] - 2065:14 September [18] - 1995:9, 1996:9, 1996:10, 1999:7, 2000:6, 2002:11, 2010:8, 2012:20, 2012:22, 2015:25, 2018:2, 2027:13, 2028:20, 2030:9, 2035:18, 2039:8, 2050:5, 2063:25 Session [1] - 1991:5 SESSION [2] - 1991:9, 1994:1 set [2] - 2034:22, 2040:2 sets [2] - 2013:5, 2042:20 setup [1] - 2034:21 several [1] - 2000:20 shared [3] - 2029:25, 2045:8, 2050:13 sharp [1] - 2002:17 short [6] - 2019:7, 2044:15, 2056:11, 2067:7, 2067:9, 2068:16 short-circuit [1] - 2056:11 shorter [1] - 2058:10 shorthand [1] - 1992:5 shortly [1] - 2024:16 show [1] - 2031:4 showed [4] - 2011:5, 2013:15, 2037:18, 2051:21 shown [4] - 2050:1, 2050:3, 2051:11, 2058:16 shows [2] - 1995:9, 2000:6 side [2] - 2032:16, 2064:12 sides [3] - 2032:16, 2069:22, 2070:23 sides' [1] - 2033:6 significantly [1] - 2018:5 silence [1] - 2009:16 simply [2] - 2057:2, 2062:4 simultaneously [1] - 1995:6 single [2] - 2055:25, 2056:1 sit [3] - 2047:17, 2050:22, 2052:7 sitting [1] - 2005:14 situation [1] - 2049:7 SKA [1] - 2014:4 Skadden [18] - 2003:6, 2010:15, 2014:4, 2017:16, 2018:7, 2033:22, 2040:3, 2040:17, 2042:24, 2043:6, 2043:11, 2043:13, 2043:23, 2044:2, 2044:4, 2044:9, 2045:9, 2049:19 Skadden's [1] - 2043:20 skip [1] - 2057:2 slash [1] - 2034:24 slightly [1] - 2052:1 snipe [1] - 2012:2 solve [1] - 2056:20 someone [8] - 2010:22, 2035:2, 2052:25, 2057:5, 2059:14, 2060:20, 2060:21 somewhere [1] - 2050:19 soon [1] - 2018:3 sorry [12] - 1996:6, 2001:18, 2006:13, 2025:24, 2035:15, 2037:12, 2039:23, 2039:24, 2046:3, 2057:10, 2060:9, 2068:14 sort [2] - 2013:4, 2016:16 SPAEDER [2] - 1991:20, 1991:23 speaking [1] - 2013:16 Special [1] - 2047:6 specific [9] - 1998:17, 2010:2, 2022:6, 2024:8, 2026:12, 2055:10, 2055:11, 2058:19, 2063:3 specifically [6] - 2022:18, 2024:5, 2024:6, 2043:14, 2050:18, 2060:20 specifics [1] - 2037:24 staff [1] - 2015:13 stage [5] - 2008:21, 2028:17, 2037:21, 2037:24, 2038:6 stakeholder [1] - 2015:3 stakeholders [5] - 2015:1, 2034:12, 2034:19, 2035:22, 2035:25 stand [1] - 2066:1 standard [2] - 2070:12, 2070:13 standards [8] - 2004:8, 2006:3, 2007:15, 2007:21, 2008:12, 2008:14, 2009:4, 2010:4 standing [1] - 2006:18 start [3] - 2017:18, 2042:20, 2067:22 started [1] - 2054:17 starts [2] - 2000:23, 2001:9 state [1] - 2057:17 statement [9] - 1998:9, 1998:16, 1998:17, 2054:18, 2057:15, 2057:19, 2057:20, 2057:21, 2057:22 statements [5] - 1997:10, 1997:25, 1998:2, 1998:3, 1998:5 States [3] - 2028:7, 2028:8, 2039:2 STATES [3] - 1991:1, 1991:3, 1991:10 statutory [1] - 2003:4 stenotype [1] - 1992:5 step [1] - 1999:16 steps [1] - 2007:18 Steven [2] - 2037:3, 2037:14 sticking [1] - 2030:22 still [13] - 1994:6, 1995:1, 1995:3, 1995:4, 1997:18, 2001:20, 2022:21, 2022:22, 2030:22, 2036:2, 2036:14, 2037:20, 2067:22 stipulation [1] - 2021:2 stood [1] - 2065:1 stop [1] - 2062:19 story [3] - 2022:8, 2036:15 Street [3] - 1991:14, 1991:20, 1991:24 strike [5] - 2020:6, 2023:3, 2044:21, 2046:17, 2059:11 stuff [3] - 2015:15, 2015:17, 2020:2 subject [7] - 2007:10, 2024:9, 2026:12, 2026:16, 2026:20, 2027:3, 2064:18 submitted [1] - 2067:19 submitting [2] - 2069:22 substantially [1] - 2004:21 suffer [1] - 2005:16 suffered [1] - 2005:7 sufficiency [2] - 2069:5, 2070:6 sufficient [1] - 2010:3 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 284 of 285 2084 suggested [1] - 2059:7 suggesting [2] - 2032:3, 2033:7 suggestion [1] - 2007:16 Suite [2] - 1991:21, 1991:24 summarize [1] - 2004:12 summarizes [1] - 1997:4 summary [7] - 1997:6, 2000:24, 2005:20, 2006:12, 2006:22, 2007:15, 2010:8 superb [1] - 2069:21 supports [1] - 2064:13 supposed [2] - 2058:25, 2063:20 supposedly [1] - 2029:13 sustained [1] - 2064:25 sworn [1] - 1994:12 T table [1] - 2000:17 tactics [1] - 2004:21 tailored [1] - 2058:3 talks [2] - 2001:2, 2034:21 tall [1] - 2067:7 targeted [1] - 2056:12 TAYLOR [22] - 2012:21, 2053:6, 2053:8, 2053:10, 2053:16, 2054:2, 2054:10, 2056:22, 2057:7, 2057:9, 2057:13, 2058:5, 2063:8, 2064:14, 2064:18, 2065:5, 2068:25, 2069:3, 2069:7, 2070:3, 2070:14, 2070:16 Taylor [2] - 1991:22, 2053:13 team [8] - 2013:23, 2013:24, 2013:25, 2045:9, 2052:14, 2053:21, 2055:4 template [1] - 2027:21 tender [1] - 2065:9 tensions [1] - 2012:3 tenure [1] - 2004:7 terms [1] - 2028:2 territory [1] - 2032:17 testified [1] - 1994:12 testify [6] - 2009:1, 2009:2, 2053:23, 2060:22, 2063:14, 2067:8 testimony [6] - 2032:18, 2054:3, 2055:9, 2061:19, 2064:6, 2064:14 THE [137] - 1991:1, 1991:9, 1991:13, 1994:3, 1994:5, 1996:5, 1997:18, 1997:21, 1998:21, 1999:11, 1999:16, 1999:20, 2000:2, 2000:4, 2001:17, 2002:4, 2002:7, 2003:22, 2005:8, 2005:12, 2005:20, 2006:13, 2006:21, 2007:1, 2007:4, 2007:7, 2010:21, 2011:4, 2012:1, 2016:7, 2016:21, 2016:23, 2017:2, 2019:23, 2019:25, 2021:2, 2021:5, 2021:7, 2021:9, 2024:15, 2024:17, 2024:18, 2024:20, 2025:1, 2025:2, 2026:20, 2026:23, 2026:25, 2027:3, 2027:5, 2027:6, 2027:7, 2031:8, 2031:11, 2031:13, 2031:21, 2031:24, 2032:3, 2033:2, 2033:13, 2035:6, 2035:9, 2035:15, 2038:11, 2038:17, 2038:23, 2039:1, 2039:3, 2042:6, 2042:8, 2042:11, 2042:16, 2045:25, 2046:3, 2047:22, 2049:2, 2049:6, 2051:20, 2051:25, 2052:4, 2052:21, 2052:23, 2053:7, 2053:9, 2053:13, 2053:17, 2054:8, 2054:11, 2055:12, 2055:15, 2055:19, 2056:4, 2056:11, 2056:15, 2056:19, 2056:24, 2057:8, 2057:11, 2057:19, 2058:7, 2058:24, 2059:1, 2059:2, 2059:10, 2059:13, 2059:18, 2059:19, 2059:21, 2059:25, 2060:4, 2060:10, 2060:14, 2060:19, 2061:12, 2061:19, 2062:7, 2062:23, 2063:3, 2063:15, 2064:17, 2064:19, 2065:13, 2066:14, 2066:15, 2067:4, 2067:7, 2067:11, 2068:4, 2068:12, 2068:18, 2068:24, 2069:2, 2069:6, 2069:18, 2070:8, 2070:15, 2070:17 theme [1] - 2070:1 thereafter [1] - 2065:16 thinking [1] - 2065:2 third [1] - 2003:10 thousand [1] - 2064:19 threading [1] - 2070:20 three [4] - 2003:22, 2003:23, 2029:19, 2063:7 throughout [2] - 2024:4, 2030:16 tightly [1] - 2062:8 tired [1] - 2025:24 today [6] - 2044:14, 2047:17, 2050:22, 2051:1, 2052:7, 2055:23 together [6] - 1997:10, 2027:18, 2027:20, 2050:20, 2062:2, 2065:15 tomorrow [3] - 2067:20, 2068:23, 2069:4 ton [1] - 2063:16 Tony [4] - 2029:14, 2045:21, 2046:3, 2046:16 took [2] - 2021:20, 2064:2 top [4] - 2012:16, 2018:25, 2030:2, 2051:5 totally [1] - 2062:2 Tower [3] - 2024:11, 2024:16, 2027:9 track [1] - 1999:21 Transcript [1] - 1992:6 TRANSCRIPT [1] - 1991:9 transcription [1] - 1992:6 transmitting [1] - 1999:17 transpired [1] - 2064:7 travel [1] - 2014:13 traveling [1] - 2050:4 trial [14] - 1998:11, 2003:15, 2004:21, 2005:3, 2005:25, 2006:4, 2007:23, 2008:13, 2008:24, 2010:11, 2058:4, 2068:2 TRIAL [2] - 1991:5, 1991:9 trip [1] - 2050:11 trips [1] - 2014:17 troubling [1] - 2005:16 true [1] - 2058:1 Trump [3] - 2024:11, 2024:15, 2027:9 truth [3] - 2052:24, 2053:25, 2057:21 try [4] - 2012:2, 2036:6, 2058:10, 2067:17 trying [11] - 2006:18, 2006:19, 2006:24, 2012:4, 2027:1, 2032:5, 2051:23, 2056:17, 2057:2, 2057:9, 2062:1 turn [14] - 1995:10, 1996:14, 1997:9, 2000:12, 2012:15, 2013:7, 2013:19, 2015:23, 2016:3, 2017:24, 2018:23, 2032:7, 2036:13, 2036:20 two [11] - 2003:21, 2005:13, 2009:1, 2027:21, 2035:20, 2059:25, 2064:4, 2064:5, 2064:7, 2064:13, 2065:14 Tymoshenko [14] - 1998:11, 2003:8, 2003:11, 2004:19, 2006:3, 2007:10, 2007:22, 2008:7, 2008:21, 2009:2, 2009:14, 2010:2, 2010:11, 2043:8 Tymoshenko's [3] - 2004:2, 2007:14, 2009:6 typed [1] - 2035:6 U U.S [6] - 1991:13, 1991:16, 1992:3, 2021:7, 2021:15, 2027:25 UK [2] - 2020:14, 2020:15 Ukraine [10] - 2001:3, 2004:14, 2009:24, 2017:18, 2019:6, 2030:20, 2035:2, 2046:11, 2046:14, 2046:21 Ukraine's [2] - 2017:19, 2044:8 Ukrainian [4] - 2002:25, 2003:2, 2003:8, 2008:11 ultimately [1] - 2059:5 under [13] - 1994:7, 2001:1, 2002:25, 2003:8, 2006:2, 2007:9, 2007:15, 2007:21, 2008:14, 2009:4, 2010:4, 2016:13, 2023:5 undermined [1] - 2009:3 underscore [1] - 2070:17 understood [3] - 2003:6, 2026:12, 2036:3 undertaken [1] - 2009:16 undertaking [1] - 2003:7 unfair [1] - 2032:1 unique [1] - 2043:16 UNITED [3] - 1991:1, 1991:3, 1991:10 United [3] - 2028:7, 2039:2 unjustified [1] - 2007:13 unless [1] - 2067:13 unlikely [1] - 2003:17 unsuccessful [1] - 2009:18 untended [1] - 2032:19 untimely [1] - 2008:23 up [22] - 2000:14, 2011:7, 2012:16, 2016:15, 2022:22, 2025:19, 2025:21, 2025:23, 2031:19, 2033:19, 2034:22, 2041:18, 2041:21, 2046:22, 2051:21, Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-2 Filed 12/10/19 Page 285 of 285 2085 2053:17, 2058:2, 2061:6, 2064:3, 2065:1, 2066:1, 2070:5 update [1] - 2028:20 updated [4] - 2027:21, 2028:12, 2037:11, 2037:13 updates [1] - 2048:14 upper [2] - 2013:9, 2041:21 urge [1] - 2068:1 useful [1] - 2038:11 utmost [1] - 2069:25 uttered [1] - 2055:23 V value [1] - 2032:23 van [9] - 2016:3, 2025:15, 2040:13, 2040:16, 2041:9, 2042:22, 2045:2, 2045:5, 2045:8 various [4] - 1997:10, 2001:2, 2014:11, 2048:14 Veritas [1] - 1996:16 version [13] - 2002:10, 2002:13, 2011:2, 2014:21, 2014:25, 2015:10, 2015:11, 2018:4, 2028:19, 2028:20, 2030:10, 2036:12, 2037:15 versions [4] - 2014:22, 2044:24, 2045:3, 2045:11 view [1] - 2024:12 viewed [1] - 2008:16 views [1] - 2069:16 vigorously [1] - 2003:1 Vin [6] - 2045:23, 2046:5, 2046:6, 2056:1, 2065:14 violated [3] - 2004:8, 2008:7, 2017:18 violation [4] - 2003:19, 2004:14, 2008:16, 2054:4 W wait [3] - 1999:11, 2005:8, 2035:6 waived [1] - 2065:6 Washington [5] - 1991:6, 1991:15, 1991:17, 1991:25, 1992:4 wearing [1] - 2032:19 weber [15] - 2029:8, 2050:12, 2051:2, 2052:18, 2055:9, 2056:12, 2056:13, 2057:1, 2057:4, 2057:14, 2058:5, 2058:11, 2058:14, 2058:21, 2065:23 Weber [7] - 2045:23, 2046:5, 2046:6, 2046:13, 2056:1, 2065:15, 2065:18 Weber's [5] - 2055:11, 2056:2, 2056:5, 2057:17, 2057:25 Western [8] - 2004:8, 2006:3, 2007:15, 2007:21, 2008:11, 2008:14, 2009:4 whole [9] - 2006:13, 2006:19, 2008:6, 2020:22, 2029:2, 2031:22, 2033:17, 2041:9, 2070:10 William [2] - 1991:19, 1991:22 willing [6] - 2022:20, 2022:21, 2030:4, 2030:5, 2030:6, 2049:23 wish [2] - 2029:22, 2031:17 wishes [1] - 2008:12 witness [12] - 2038:21, 2054:12, 2062:20, 2065:3, 2065:20, 2067:4, 2067:7, 2067:8, 2067:9, 2068:4, 2068:7, 2068:19 Witness [1] - 2067:6 WITNESS [17] - 1993:2, 2011:4, 2016:23, 2017:2, 2019:25, 2024:17, 2024:20, 2025:2, 2027:5, 2027:7, 2035:9, 2042:8, 2046:3, 2049:6, 2059:1, 2059:18, 2066:15 witnesses [9] - 2008:8, 2008:15, 2008:22, 2008:25, 2009:2, 2009:6, 2054:5, 2068:10, 2068:15 word [2] - 2002:16, 2055:23 words [3] - 2056:5, 2057:25, 2061:9 worry [1] - 2022:9 worst [1] - 2016:18 worst-case [1] - 2016:18 worth [2] - 2020:2, 2033:11 write [2] - 2010:24, 2065:18 written [2] - 2016:17, 2032:1 wrote [1] - 2018:21 Y Yanukovych [1] - 2004:3 yes-or-no [1] - 2010:23 York [2] - 2021:8, 2037:3 yourself [6] - 2011:3, 2025:6, 2036:20, 2040:1, 2044:16, 2048:5 Z zoom [2] - 2051:5, 2051:13 ZUCKERMAN [2] - 1991:20, 1991:23 Zwaan [7] - 2016:3, 2025:15, 2040:13, 2041:9, 2045:2, 2045:5, 2045:8 Zwaan's [2] - 2040:16, 2042:22 Case Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 1 of 105 Exhibit 3 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 2 of 105 1 902 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA 2 3 4 5 6 7 United States of America, ) Criminal Action ) No. 19-CR-018 Plaintiff, ) ) JURY TRIAL vs. ) Day 5 - Morning Session ) Roger Jason Stone, Jr., ) Washington, DC ) Date: November 12, 2109 Defendant ) Time: 9:30 a.m. ___________________________________________________________ 8 9 10 TRANSCRIPT OF JURY TRIAL HELD BEFORE THE HONORABLE JUDGE AMY BERMAN JACKSON UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE ____________________________________________________________ 11 12 A P P E A R A N C E S 13 For the Plaintiff: Jonathan Ian Kravis Michael John Marando Adam Jed Aaron Simcha Jon Zelinsky U.S. ATTORNEY'S OFFICE FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA 555 Fourth Street, NW Washington, DC 20530 (202) 252-7068 e-mail: [email protected] e-mail: [email protected] e-mail: [email protected] For the Defendant: Bruce S. Rogow LAW OFFICE OF BRUCE S. ROGOW, P.A. 100 NE 3rd Avenue Suite 1000 Fort Lauderdale, FL 33301 (954) 767-8909 e-mail: [email protected] 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 3 of 105 1 For the Defendant: 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 903 Robert C. Buschel Tara A. Campion BUSCHEL & GIBBONS, P.A. One Financial Plaza 100 S.E. Third Avenue Suite 1300 Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33394 (954) 530-5301 e-mail: [email protected] Grant J. Smith STRATEGYSMITH, P.A. 401 East Las Olas Boulevard Suite 130-120 Fort Lauderdale, FL 33301 (954) 328-9064 e-mail: [email protected] Chandler Paige Routman LAW OFFICE OF CHANDLER P. ROUTMAN 501 East Las Olas Blvd. Suite #331 Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33316 (954) 235-8259 e-mail: [email protected] 13 ____________________________________________________________ 14 Court Reporter: 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Janice E. Dickman, RMR, CRR, CRC Official Court Reporter United States Courthouse, Room 6523 333 Constitution Avenue, NW Washington, DC 20001 202-354-3267 e-mail: [email protected] * * * Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 4 of 105 1 2 3 4 INDEX Witnesses: Richard Gates Direct Examination By Mr. Zelinsky.............908 Cross-Examination By Mr. Rogow.................947 Redirect Examination By Mr. Zelinsky...........967 5 6 Michelle Taylor (Recalled) Direct Examination By Mr. Kravis...............969 Cross-Examination By Mr. Rogow.................974 7 8 9 10 Exhibits: Government Government Government Government Government Exhibit Exhibit Exhibit Exhibit Exhibit 6-B..............................972 209..............................977 201..............................977 202..............................977 214..............................974 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Plaintiff Rests.........................................979 * * * 904 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 5 of 105 1 THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: 905 Good morning, Your Honor. 2 This morning we have Criminal Case Number 19-18, United States 3 of America v. Roger Stone. 4 courtroom. 5 6 7 Mr. Stone is present in the Counsel, please, approach the lectern, identify yourself for the record. MR. KRAVIS: Good morning, Your Honor. 8 Jonathan Kravis for the United States. With me at counsel 9 table are Aaron Zelinsky, Michael Marando, Adam Jed, and 10 Amanda Rohde, all from the D.C. Attorney's Office, and 11 Christopher Keefe from the FBI. 12 THE COURT: 13 MR. BUSCHEL: All right. Good morning. Good morning, Judge. Robert Buschel, 14 Tara Campion, Grant Smith, Bruce Rogow, and Chandler Routman on 15 behalf of Mr. Stone. 16 THE COURT: 17 MR. KRAVIS: Do we have any preliminary matters? At the conclusion of the government's 18 case, which I expect will likely be this morning, we were 19 intending to recall Ms. Taylor to admit a few more exhibits 20 that we did not get to the first time around. 21 One of the exhibits that we would like to admit is 22 the transcript of the relevant scene of The Godfather II. I 23 think the Court, in its ruling denying our motion in limine on 24 this subject, ruled that we could admit the transcripts. 25 just want to confirm that we're permitted to do that before we We Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 6 of 105 1 recall Ms. Taylor. 2 3 906 THE COURT: All right. And how is it going to be authenticated? 4 MR. KRAVIS: Well, Ms. Taylor has seen the movie 5 several times, including very recently. 6 movie with a copy of the transcript in front of her, and she 7 can confirm that the transcript is fair and accurate. 8 also sent the transcript we propose to use to defense counsel, 9 I think three times over the last few weeks. 10 She has watched the We've I haven't heard any objection from them. 11 THE COURT: All right. Mr. Buschel, I know your 12 objection to its admission on relevance grounds and prejudice 13 grounds is noted, and I've overruled it. 14 15 Do you have any objection to the accuracy of the transcription. 16 MR. BUSCHEL: We don't have an objection to the 17 accuracy of the transcription. 18 there that we object to, like, what is going on, It's a 19 smoke-filled room. 20 noted it. 21 There are some descriptors in I think noting our objection, the Court has I just want to draw the Court's attention, we found 22 in the transcript, on page 690, that Mr. Credico explained what 23 he felt the movie -- or, what the comment of Frank Pentangeli 24 meant to him, and we believe that's the only relevance. 25 That being said, I think if the government were to Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 7 of 105 1 remove the descriptors and just put in the words, the 2 transcript of that scene itself, it would be less 3 objectionable. 4 THE COURT: All right. Why don't we do this: 907 Why 5 don't we have her identify the transcript -- the exhibit as a 6 transcript, which she has compared to the scene, and it 7 accurately reflects the words said in the scene, without then 8 publishing it or having it -- read it to the jury at that time. 9 It will then be in evidence, and they'll have it. 10 She's already described the scene anyway, as has 11 Credico, and then I will have an opportunity to look at it and 12 suggest any redactions based on this objection. 13 think we have to resolve them right now. 14 before we send it back to the jury room. 15 Does that make sense? 16 MR. KRAVIS: 17 THE COURT: Okay. All right. So I'll take a look at it with Anything before we bring in -- is it Mr. Gates is next? 22 MR. KRAVIS: 23 Nothing further. 24 THE COURT: 25 Thank you, Your that in mind. 20 21 We can resolve it Honor. 18 19 That makes sense. But I don't then. Mr. Gates is next. Thank you. Thank you, Your Honor. All right. So, let's bring in the jury, Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 8 of 105 1 (Jurors enter the courtroom.) 2 THE COURT: All right. Good morning. 3 see that all the jurors are present. 4 was on time, again, this morning. 5 and I hope you had a pleasant weekend. 6 908 I'm glad to And I know that everyone It has been a long weekend, Some of it was sunny. But I guess I just want to confirm that none of you 7 has been approached by anyone to discuss the case, none of you 8 have discussed the case or done any research or have any issues 9 that you need to bring to my attention before we proceed. 10 I'm going to assume, since everyone is either shaking 11 their head or nodding their head and no one has raised their 12 hand to speak to me, that your answer to my question is that 13 you have not discussed the case or done any research. 14 15 And, therefore, I will call on the government to call its next witness. 16 17 MR. ZELINSKY: The United States calls Rick Gates, Your Honor. 18 RICHARD WILLIAMS GATES, III, 19 was called as a witness and, having been first duly sworn, was 20 examined and testified as follows: 21 DIRECT EXAMINATION 22 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 23 Q. Good morning, sir. 24 A. Good morning. 25 Q. Could you state and spell your name for the record, please? Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 9 of 105 Yes. Richard Williams Gates, III. 909 1 A. R-I-C-H-A-R-D, 2 W-I-L-L-I-A-M, G-A-T-E-S. 3 Q. Mr. Gates, how old are you? 4 A. 47 years old. 5 Q. Where do you live? 6 A. I live in Richmond, Virginia. 7 Q. What's your educational background? 8 A. I received a bachelor of arts from the College of William & 9 Mary, and then a master of arts from George Washington 10 University. 11 Q. And since graduation, what field have you worked in? 12 A. Largely, political consulting. 13 Q. Can you briefly describe the jobs that you've held? 14 A. Yes. 15 consulting firm called Black, Manafort, Stone and Kelly. 16 17 I then went to work for one of their clients for a number of years called Gtech Corporation. 18 19 Following that, I came back to work with a business partner in a firm called Business Strategies and Insight. 20 21 My first job out of college was with a political And then worked for another company called Scientific Games. 22 And then in 2006, came to work for a firm called 23 Davis Manafort Partners. 24 Q. 25 a firm named Black, Manafort and Stone; is that right? At the beginning of your employment history, you mentioned Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 10 of 105 910 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Who was the "Stone" in Black, Manafort and Stone? 3 A. Mr. Roger Stone. 4 Q. Is that the defendant in this case? 5 A. It is. 6 Q. Did you interact with Mr. Stone when you were employed by 7 Black, Manafort and Stone? 8 A. I did not. 9 Q. And you also mentioned another name there, Manafort. 10 A. Mr. Paul Manafort. 11 partners at the firm. 12 Q. 13 called Davis Manafort; is that right? 14 A. That's correct. 15 Q. Who is the "Manafort" in Davis Manafort that you went to 16 work at in 2006? 17 A. It's the same, Mr. Paul Manafort. 18 Q. I want to turn your attention now to January of 2016, sir. He was another one of the primary You mentioned another firm that you went to work at in 2006 19 In January of 2016, what was your job? 20 A. At the time, I was still employed by Davis Manafort 21 Partners. 22 Q. What was Paul Manafort's job? 23 A. At the time, he was still the primary partner in Davis 24 Manafort Partners. 25 Q. And what kind of work did Davis Manafort Partners do at Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 11 of 105 911 1 that time? 2 A. 3 elections, and Mr. Manafort was responsible for building 4 political parties in different foreign countries. 5 Q. 6 Trump campaign on a volunteer basis? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. When did you first become involved with the Trump campaign 9 on a volunteer basis? At that time, it was largely international political Did there come a time when you became involved with the 10 A. I started working for the campaign at the end of March of 11 2016. 12 Q. In March of 2016, what was your role on the campaign? 13 A. At the time, it was deputy convention manager. 14 Q. Who was the convention manager? 15 A. It was Mr. Paul Manafort. 16 Q. And you mentioned a convention. 17 A. In the political world, in a presidential election, each 18 party has its respective convention. 19 Republican National Convention, which was held in July of 2016. 20 Q. 21 Trump campaign? 22 A. He did. 23 Q. Around when was that? 24 A. I believe that was June of 2016. 25 Q. Did you get a promotion when Mr. Manafort became the What convention is that? Our part was the Did Mr. Manafort eventually become the chairman of the Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 12 of 105 912 1 campaign's chairman? 2 A. I did. 3 Q. What was your job? 4 A. I was deputy campaign manager at that time. 5 Q. Before joining the Trump campaign, did you commit crimes 6 with Paul Manafort? 7 A. I did. 8 Q. And were you indicted for some of those crimes? 9 A. I was. 10 Q. Were you arrested? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And did you make a decision about how to resolve those 13 charges? 14 A. I did. 15 Q. What was your decision? 16 A. I pled to those charges. 17 Q. When did you plead guilty? 18 A. I pled in February of 2018. 19 Q. As part of your guilty plea, did you enter into a written 20 agreement with the government? 21 A. I did. 22 Q. And does that document contain all the terms of your 23 agreement with the government? 24 A. 25 It does. MR. ZELINSKY: Could we turn now to Exhibit 162. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 13 of 105 913 1 It's been previously admitted. 2 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 3 Q. Sir, do you recognize this document? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And what is it? 6 A. It is my plea agreement with the United States government. 7 MR. ZELINSKY: 8 of this exhibit, page 12. 9 BY MR. ZELINSKY: I would like to turn to the last page 10 Q. Do you see a signature there that says, "Richard W. Gates, 11 III"? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Did you sign the plea agreement? 14 A. I did. 15 Q. Did your lawyer sign the plea agreement? 16 A. He did. 17 Q. Turning to the previous page, page 11, did the 18 United States government also sign the plea agreement? 19 A. Yes, it did. 20 MR. ZELINSKY: 21 of this exhibit. 22 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 23 Q. 24 Statutory Penalties"? 25 A. I want to turn now to the first page Do you see a section there, sir, called "Charges and Yes. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 14 of 105 914 1 Q. How many charges were you required to plead to? 2 A. I pled to two charges. 3 Q. And are they listed there in the paragraph under Charges 4 and Statutory Penalties? 5 A. They are. 6 MR. ZELINSKY: 7 paragraph, please. 8 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 9 Q. Ms. Rohde, if we could enlarge that With respect to paragraph 1.(a), what were you charged 10 with? 11 A. I was charged with a conspiracy against United States. 12 Q. And with respect to 1.(b), the second count, what were you 13 charged with? 14 A. 15 government official. 16 Q. 17 United States. 18 I was charged with making a false statement to a federal Moving now to 1(a), the conspiracy against the With whom did you conspire? 19 A. Mr. Manafort. 20 Q. And did that conspiracy cover a series of crimes? 21 A. It did. 22 Q. What crimes did that conspiracy cover? 23 A. It was three components: 24 foreign registrations -- as a foreign registration agent [sic]; 25 the second one was helping Mr. Manafort file false tax returns; One was not registering for Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 15 of 105 915 1 and the third one was not reporting a foreign bank account. 2 Q. 3 making a false statement. 4 bit? 5 A. 6 interviews that I held with the Special Counsel's Office at the 7 time, I made a statement regarding a meeting that I did not 8 attend. 9 time. You also said that you pled guilty to a second charge, of Yes. Can you explain that charge a little Prior to my plea agreement, in the course of the I did not tell the truth to the government at that 10 Q. Were there consequences to lying to the government? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And what was the consequence? 13 A. The consequence, that a second charge was added to my plea 14 agreement. 15 Q. And what is the impact of that second charge? 16 A. The second charge could impose an additional penalty of up 17 to five years imprisonment and up to $250,000 fine. 18 Q. When you pled guilty, did you appear in front of a judge? 19 A. I did. 20 Q. And did she explain the maximum potential penalties to you? 21 A. Yes, she did. 22 Q. I would like to turn now back to page one of the Exhibit. 23 For Count 1, Conspiracy against the United States, 24 what are the maximum penalties for the charge? 25 A. The maximum penalty is up to five years imprisonment and up Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 16 of 105 916 1 to $250,000 fine. 2 Q. 3 maximum possible penalties? 4 A. 5 $250,000 fine. 6 Q. 7 could be facing? 8 A. Up to ten years. 9 Q. As part of your written agreement with the government, did And for Count 2 that you pled guilty to, what are the It is the same, up to five years imprisonment and up to So what is the total amount of time, maximum, that you 10 you make promises? 11 A. I did. 12 Q. And what did you promise? 13 A. To the government, I promised to tell the truth, I promised 14 to assist them in any investigation that they were conducting, 15 and I promised to provide them with emails and documents from 16 my records. 17 MR. ZELINSKY: Let's turn to page 6 of this Exhibit. 18 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 19 Q. 20 also make promises? 21 A. Yes, it did. 22 Q. And what promises did the government make? 23 A. The government promised to drop additional charges from a 24 separate indictment. 25 idea of submitting probation as a potential punishment. As part of the written plea agreement, did the government It promised not to oppose my attorney's And Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 17 of 105 1 then it also agreed to write a 5K1 letter, if I fully 2 cooperated and lived up to the terms of the agreement. 3 Q. 4 917 I want to go through that a little more in detail. You mentioned that the government agreed to dismiss a 5 second indictment; is that right? 6 A. That's correct. 7 Q. What was that second indictment? 8 A. The second indictment was in another jurisdiction, in the 9 Eastern District of Virginia, and it related to additional 10 financial crimes that were put into indictment against myself 11 and Mr. Manafort. 12 Q. 13 District of Virginia? 14 A. It has. 15 Q. Could they be brought again, sir? 16 A. They could. 17 Q. Under what circumstances? 18 A. If I do not fulfil the terms of my plea agreement, then 19 that plea agreement could be revoked by the government, and I 20 would be facing additional charges. 21 Q. 22 your plea agreement? 23 A. Yes, it would. 24 Q. And what would be the impact of a lie today? 25 A. I would end up facing a greater list of punishments. Has the government dismissed those charges in the Eastern If you lie during your testimony today, would that violate Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 18 of 105 918 1 Q. And you mentioned earlier that the government agreed to 2 write a 5K letter for you? 3 A. Yes, that's correct. 4 Q. What is a 5K letter? 5 A. A 5K letter is a description of the things that I've done 6 on behalf of the government, or for the government, and it 7 details the cooperation that I provided. 8 submitted to the judge, and the judge can use that letter for 9 purposes of the sentencing guidelines. That letter is 10 Q. And you mentioned earlier that if you fulfilled your plea 11 agreement, the government would not oppose a sentence of 12 probation; is that right? 13 A. That is correct. 14 Q. Who ultimately decides on your sentence? 15 A. Ultimately, the judge decides the sentence. 16 Q. And what judge ultimately decides that sentence? 17 A. Judge Jackson, in my case. 18 Q. Moving on to your testimony today. 19 Prior to your testimony here, did you also testify in 20 other proceedings? 21 A. I did. 22 Q. And did you meet with the government to prepare for those 23 other proceedings? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Did you review documents and other materials? Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 19 of 105 919 1 A. I did. 2 Q. Approximately how many times did you meet with the 3 government to prepare for those other proceedings? 4 A. Over 50 times in the other two proceedings. 5 Q. And did you also meet with the government to prepare for 6 this proceeding? 7 A. I did. 8 Q. And how many times did you meet with the government to 9 prepare for this proceeding? 10 A. Two times for this proceeding. 11 Q. Let's turn now to the spring of 2016. 12 In May of 2016, what was your role on the Trump 13 campaign? 14 A. 15 And I was responsible for a lot of the logistical aspects of 16 the campaign at that time. 17 Q. And what was Mr. Manafort's role on the Trump campaign? 18 A. Mr. Manafort had -- was progressing. 19 the convention and the head of delegates, and was very shortly 20 after promoted to the campaign chair. 21 Q. 22 were working for the campaign? 23 A. I did. 24 Q. And how did you interact with him? 25 A. Primarily by phone, via voice conversation, and some texts. In May of 2016, I was promoted to deputy campaign manager. He was leading both Did you interact with Mr. Stone in May of 2016, while you Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 20 of 105 920 1 Q. Do you know if Roger Stone had worked for the Trump 2 campaign in the past? 3 A. 4 adviser to Mr. Trump prior to me and Mr. Manafort joining the 5 campaign. 6 Q. 7 formal role on the campaign? 8 A. 9 formal role with the campaign. Yes. It was my understanding that Mr. Stone served as an In May 2016, what was your understanding of Mr. Stone's At that time, it was my understanding he did not have a 10 Q. What was your understanding of Mr. Stone's informal role on 11 the campaign? 12 A. 13 had the ability to access those people. 14 Q. 15 then-candidate Trump? 16 A. 17 somewhat tense, based on that Mr. Stone had worked for the 18 campaign and then had left the campaign. 19 30-plus year relationship, based on what I was told. 20 Q. Who were Stone's main points of contact on the campaign? 21 A. For the one that I was aware of, was primarily 22 Mr. Manafort. 23 Q. And were you also a point of contact? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. And when Mr. Bannon joined the campaign, was he a point of Mr. Stone still had people that he knew on the campaign and What was your understanding of Mr. Stone's relationship to At that point in time, it was my understanding that it was But, they had had a Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 21 of 105 921 1 contact to Mr. Stone? 2 A. Yes, he was. 3 Q. I want to continue talking with you about May of 2016 for a 4 moment. 5 In May of 2016, did you and Roger Stone talk about 6 Julian Assange? 7 A. We talked about WikiLeaks, yes. 8 Q. What did Mr. Stone tell you about WikiLeaks? 9 A. Mr. Stone indicated that he had information that would be 10 coming out at some point, although a date was never given. 11 that was the information that he had passed along. 12 13 THE COURT: And When you said, "He said he had information," who were the "he's" in that? 14 THE WITNESS: Sorry. Mr. Stone had indicated that he 15 had information that WikiLeaks would be submitting or dropping 16 information, but no information on dates or anything of that 17 nature. 18 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 19 Q. 20 information at that time? 21 A. 22 that time was Mr. Stone. 23 Q. 24 25 Who was the campaign's primary person regarding WikiLeaks's The only person that I'm aware of that had information at I want to talk now, for a moment, about June 12th, 2016. Do you remember Julian Assange's announcement on June 12th, 2016 that WikiLeaks had information related to Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 22 of 105 922 1 then-candidate Clinton, and that the information would be 2 released? 3 A. I do. 4 Q. What was the attitude within the campaign to 5 Julian Assange's announcement? 6 MR. ROGOW: Your Honor, I object. 7 THE COURT: On what grounds? 8 MR. ROGOW: The attitude of the campaign. 9 speak for the attitude of the campaign. 10 11 THE COURT: All right. (Bench discussion:) 13 THE COURT: So your objection is lack of foundation to his personal knowledge, not the relevance? 15 MR. ROGOW: Yes. Well, personal knowledge. 16 personal knowledge. 17 attitude of the campaign was. 18 19 Can you just come to the bench for a second? 12 14 He can't THE COURT: No Calls for speculation in terms of what the Okay. He's just testified that he was the deputy chief of the campaign. 20 MR. ROGOW: 21 was. 22 campaign. So he can testify as to what his feeling But, the whole campaign, has hundreds of people on the 23 MR. ZELINSKY: Your Honor, I'm happy to modify it to, 24 What was the leadership of the campaign's attitude at that 25 point? Mr. Gates clearly observed what the attitude of the Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 23 of 105 1 leadership of the campaign was. 2 chairman of the campaign. 3 THE COURT: 923 As he said, he's the deputy I don't think -- Well, I guess, are you including the 4 candidate, or are you just talking about Manafort and Gates? 5 Who is that question supposed to refer to? 6 MR. ZELINSKY: It will refer to Mr. Manafort. 7 will refer to Mr. Gates. 8 campaign leadership, like Mr. Miller, Mr. Kushner. 9 through in detail the names. 10 THE COURT: It It will refer to other senior All right. I can go Well, I think what you can 11 ask is, you know, At the time, was it discussed within senior 12 levels of the campaign? 13 reaction? 14 don't want to be eliciting hearsay. 15 And then ask him, What was the But, I think you need to be careful not to -- you But, I think he can, as the number two person on the 16 campaign, speak for the campaign. 17 candidate and he's not saying 100 percent of the people on the 18 campaign. 19 was their reaction, I think he has established a basis to 20 answer. 21 He's not saying the But, I think from his position as deputy chief, what MR. ROGOW: You know, it's like if the dean of the 22 law school is asked a question, How did the law school -- how 23 did all the professors feel about it, I don't think the dean 24 can answer that question. 25 THE COURT: Well, that's a different question, "How Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 24 of 105 924 1 did all the professors feel about it?" He didn't say, How did 2 everybody; he said the campaign. 3 know what to -- what was the reaction of the -- you know, Was 4 this discussed at the senior level of the campaign? And then I think he needs to 5 And he can say yes. 6 And, you know, Between you and Manafort? 7 Yes. 8 And then without -- then he needs to say, Without 9 10 announcing what anybody else said to you, what was the reaction of the senior level of the campaign? 11 I mean -- 12 MR. ROGOW: 13 said to you? 14 Then we get into the hearsay, What was And his answers are based upon hearsay. THE COURT: Well, I don't -- I think he was part of 15 the conversations. 16 asserted. 17 interested? 18 I think he can testify to that as being at the top of the -- he 19 was the deputy chief of the campaign. 20 And it's not for the truth of the matter He's asking what the reaction was. Were they not interested? MR. ROGOW: He was. 21 object on relevance grounds. 22 the -- Were they Were they dismissive? But, what is the relevance? I So, what's the relevance of 23 THE COURT: Okay. 24 MR. ROGOW: -- of the campaign's feelings about it? 25 If something happened, it happened. If actions were taken, it Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 25 of 105 1 was taken. 2 this -- 925 But, the relevance of the campaign's feeling about 3 THE COURT: All right. 4 MR. ZELINSKY: So what's -- Your Honor, an essential element of 5 the government's case is that Mr. Stone's motive for lying to 6 the House Intelligence Committee was to cover up his 7 relationship with the campaign and his role as the WikiLeaks 8 person, that he had an important role on the campaign, and that 9 the campaign was both receptive to and interested in the 10 WikiLeaks matters. 11 The campaign's response to the Wikileaks's -- to 12 Julian Assange's announcement is critical to explaining to the 13 jury what Mr. Stone's motive for lying is. 14 already said that he and Mr. Stone were in discussion about 15 that prior to the announcement by Mr. Assange. 16 campaign responded to this information is critical to 17 understanding Mr. Stone's motive for subsequently covering up 18 that activity. 19 20 THE COURT: Mr. Gates has And how the Are you anticipating an answer to this question? 21 MR. ZELINSKY: "Euphoric," Your Honor. 22 MR. ROGOW: The campaign is not on trial. 23 THE COURT: It's illegal for them to -- 24 MR. ROGOW: I understand. 25 THE COURT: He is laying the background for, number Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 26 of 105 926 1 one, why these questions were important to the House 2 investigation. 3 in the hacked information. 4 Mr. Stone said or didn't say to other people, and whether that 5 comports with what he told Congress he said or didn't say to 6 other people. 7 They were investigating the campaign's interest And he's investigating what So, I think that background, without going into more 8 detail, is relevant. I don't think that he's trying to prove 9 that he had had influence with Wikileaks. But, he professed to 10 have, to the campaign and publicly, communications and 11 information and connections, which he denied professing when he 12 went before Congress. 13 So, I think that goes to the heart of whether the 14 particular statements that they're trying to say were true or 15 untrue, were true or untrue. 16 foundational question about whether he was present at 17 discussions at senior levels of the campaign, and then say, you 18 know, Without going into what he said, what was the general 19 reaction at the top of the campaign when this happened? 20 then go on to the next question, and get to Mr. Stone. 21 MR. ROGOW: 22 (Open court:) So, you can add one more And Thank you, Your Honor. 23 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 24 Q. 25 June 12th, 2016 announcement that he had information about Mr. Gates, we were just discussing Julian Assange's Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 27 of 105 927 1 Hillary Clinton that was pending publication; is that right? 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. After that announcement, did you either discuss or were you 4 present for discussions with senior leadership of the campaign 5 about the announcement? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And what was the reaction -- without getting into the 8 specifics of what anyone said, what was the reaction of the 9 campaign to Julian Assange's announcement? 10 A. It was twofold. 11 competing campaign was going to have some information. 12 in a way, a gift that we had not sought, but was coming out. 13 One, it was one of -- of happiness. A It was, And the other piece is, we were kind of in disbelief, 14 to be honest. We had heard for so long that the information 15 would be coming out as early as April, but it still had never 16 come out. 17 that Mr. Assange had the emails, we still had no proof or 18 evidence that the information had actually been leaked at that 19 time. 20 Q. 21 information would be coming out. 22 information from? 23 A. Mr. Stone. 24 Q. What was Mr. Stone's reaction to the June 12th 25 announcement? And even though the announcement was an indication Mr. Gates, you said you'd heard since April that the Who had you heard that Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 28 of 105 He was happy. 928 1 A. From my recollection, it was an indication 2 that the information he had provided earlier would, in fact, 3 you know, potentially become true, that information would be 4 leaked out. 5 MR. ZELINSKY: Let's turn now to Exhibit 21. 6 If we could enlarge the e-mail at the bottom. 7 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 8 Q. 9 that begins on June 13, 2016, at 18:17, who is that e-mail Who is this e-mail -- all the way at the bottom, the one 10 from? 11 A. The e-mail is from Mr. Stone. 12 Q. What did Mr. Stone write? 13 A. "Need guidance on many things. 14 Q. Who was this e-mail to? 15 A. The e-mail was sent to me. 16 Q. What is the date this e-mail was sent? 17 A. June 13th. 18 Q. And that's one day after the June 12th announcement we just 19 discussed, correct? 20 A. Correct. 21 Q. Could you -- you just read what Mr. Stone said. 22 Call me." And then you responded to Mr. Stone; is that right? 23 A. I did. 24 Q. And what did you say? 25 A. "Barely. Will call in about an hour." Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 29 of 105 1 Q. 2 on many things. 3 things that Mr. Stone needed guidance on? 4 A. It was one of many things in the conversation, yes. 5 Q. I want to turn now to June 14th, 2016. 929 You just read that Mr. Stone wrote that he needed guidance 6 Did you understand Wikileaks to be one of the Do you recall, sir, that on June 14th, 2016, the 7 Democratic National Committee announced that it had been hacked 8 by the Russian government? 9 A. Yes, I do. 10 Q. And did you have conversations with senior leadership of 11 the campaign regarding the Democratic National Committee's 12 announcement? 13 A. We did. 14 Q. Without getting into the substance of what anyone said, 15 what was the campaign's attitude toward the Democratic National 16 Committee's announcement that he had been hacked by the Russian 17 government? 18 A. 19 that if information were to come out, that based on what we 20 were told that information might be about, there were a number 21 of us that felt that it would give our campaign a leg up. 22 Q. After the announcement, did you speak with Mr. Stone? 23 A. I did. Again, we were kind of in disbelief. We believed, again, 24 MR. ZELINSKY: Let's turn now to Exhibit 20, page 4. 25 If we could enlarge the messages, Ms. Rohde, on Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 30 of 105 930 1 June 15, 2016. 2 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 3 Q. 4 sir? 5 A. I do. 6 Q. And that's one day after the events we just spoke about; is 7 that correct? 8 A. That's correct. 9 Q. And what did Roger Stone text to you? 10 A. "Call me. 11 Q. And what did you write back? 12 A. "On con call, but will call right after. 13 Q. What did Mr. Stone respond? 14 A. "Please." 15 Q. And then? 16 A. "Awake?" 17 Q. And you wrote back? 18 A. "Yep." 19 Q. And Mr. Stone wrote? 20 A. "Call me." 21 Q. Did you subsequently speak with Mr. Stone? 22 A. I did. 23 Q. Did you discuss the Democratic National Committee's 24 announcement that it had been hacked by the Russian government? 25 A. These messages are sent June 15th, 2016. Yes. Do you see that, Important." Thanks." We discussed that information would be potentially Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 31 of 105 1 forthcoming. 2 Q. 3 National Committee's announcement? 4 A. 5 coming out of the DNC hack. 6 Q. 7 anyone else at the campaign about these matters? 8 A. 931 What did Mr. Stone tell you regarding the Democratic At that point, he said that more information would be Did Mr. Stone tell you that he wanted to get in touch with He did. 9 MR. ZELINSKY: We're turning now to Exhibit 22. If 10 we can enlarge the bottom e-mail, please. 11 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 12 Q. Who is the e-mail from? 13 A. From Mr. Stone. 14 Q. Who is the e-mail to? 15 A. It is to me. 16 Q. What is the date? 17 A. The date is June 15th. 18 Q. That's the day after the Democratic National Committee's 19 announcement; is that correct? 20 A. That's correct. 21 Q. It's the same day as the text messages we were just going 22 over; is that correct? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Could you read what Mr. Stone wrote you, please? 25 A. "I need contact for Murphy. I need contact information for Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 32 of 105 932 1 Jared." 2 Q. Who's Jared? 3 A. Jared is Jared Kushner. 4 Q. What was Mr. Kushner's role in the Trump campaign at that 5 point? 6 A. At that time, he was a senior advisor to the campaign. 7 Q. Was Mr. Kushner also related to then-candidate Trump? 8 A. Yes, he was. 9 Q. How was Mr. Kushner related to then-candidate Trump? 10 A. Mr. Kushner is Mr. Trump's son-in-law. 11 Q. Did you know why Mr. Stone was asking you for Mr. Kushner's 12 contact information at that time? 13 A. 14 Mr. Kushner and Mr. Murphy to debrief them on the developments 15 of the DNC announcement. 16 Q. 17 2016 -- did you continue to discuss WikiLeaks with Mr. Stone? 18 A. Yes, off and on. 19 Q. Why did you continue, in June, to continue to discuss 20 WikiLeaks with Mr. Stone? 21 A. 22 believe the information was coming because it still hadn't come 23 out. 24 with Mr. Stone to see if the information was still real and 25 viable. Mr. Stone indicated that he wanted to reach out to During the balance of June -- we're still in June of Because at that point, both myself and Mr. Manafort didn't And Mr. Manafort had asked me from time to time to check Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 33 of 105 1 Q. 2 WikiLeaks; is that correct? 3 A. That's correct. 4 Q. I want to talk now about July of 2016. 933 And when you say the "information," you mean releases from 5 Do you recall that on July 22nd, 2016, WikiLeaks 6 released a large amount of emails related to the Democratic 7 National Committee? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. I want to talk to you for a moment about the period in 10 July, before the release of those emails. 11 A. Um-hum. 12 Q. Let's speak for a moment now about July 22nd, 2016, prior 13 to the DNC release. 14 What did Roger Stone tell you in July 2016 prior to 15 the DNC release, about WikiLeaks? 16 A. 17 although, again, nothing had come out at that point. 18 were -- or, I was and Mr. Manafort were in -- were -- you know, 19 did not believe the information was coming out. 20 Q. 21 WikiLeaks would be releasing things, if that was public or 22 private? 23 A. It was not public information. 24 Q. I'm sorry, sir. 25 A. Not public information. He had indicated that information was still forthcoming, So we Did Mr. Stone indicate if his information, that he knew It was not public -- Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 34 of 105 934 1 Q. In response to Mr. Stone's nonpublic information, did the 2 campaign do anything? 3 A. 4 nothing prior to July 22nd. 5 Q. 6 that point? 7 A. 8 on the idea of if the information was leaked, what would the 9 campaign say and respond? At that point, nothing had come out. So, the campaign did On July -- were there any brainstorming sessions held at Oh, yeah. Prior to July, there were brainstorming sessions But, again, up to that point, 10 nothing had materialized, so there was no action to be taken. 11 Q. 12 brainstorming sessions about what to do if information was 13 leaked? 14 A. 15 was our director of communications; and Mr. Stephen Miller, who 16 was our director of policy at the time. 17 Q. 18 Mr. Stone's predictions? 19 A. 20 press release and Mr. Stone's predictions. 21 Q. Without saying what they said, who was involved in those Sure. It was Mr. Manafort; myself; Mr. Jason Miller, who And were those brainstorming sessions based, in part, on It was based, in part, on, yes, the Assange release -- I want to turn now to July 22nd, 2016. 22 Do you recall the release of the Democratic National 23 Committee emails by WikiLeaks on July 22nd, 2016? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. I want to talk briefly now about the time period Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 35 of 105 1 935 immediately following that July 22nd, 2016 release. 2 Did you have discussions with senior campaign 3 leadership about the campaign's attitude toward the release? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. What was the campaign's attitude toward the release? 6 A. The fact that the information had come out, the campaign 7 was in a state of happiness. 8 had come out on our competitor. 9 know, channels not related to us. 10 This was, again, information that It had come out through, you Anytime you're in a campaign and damaging information 11 comes out against, you know, your competitor, it's helpful. 12 mean, it's the -- similar to the example when the Access 13 Hollywood tape came out, you know, on Mr. Trump. 14 was information that hurt him. 15 side had that information. 16 Q. 17 Committee emails with Mr. Manafort? 18 A. I did. 19 Q. What was Mr. Manafort's reaction? 20 A. Mr. Manafort's -- I mean, it But, at the time, the other Did you discuss the release of the Democratic National 21 MR. ROGOW: Objection. 22 THE COURT: Sustained. 23 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 24 Q. 25 I Speculation, Your Honor. Let's move on to shortly after the WikiLeaks release. Did you overhear a conversation between Mr. Manafort Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 36 of 105 1 and Mr. Stone? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. I want to talk to you now about that conversation. 4 936 Was that conversation on the phone? 5 A. It was. 6 Q. And how did you come to overhear that conversation between 7 Mr. Manafort and Mr. Stone? 8 A. Mr. Manafort had put the phone on speaker phone. 9 Q. And, sir, can you recognize Mr. Stone's voice? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And did you hear it on that phone call? 12 A. I did. 13 Q. And what did Mr. Stone say to Mr. Manafort on that call? 14 A. Mr. Stone, at that point, had indicated that the 15 information had come out, and that additional information would 16 be coming out down the road. 17 Q. And what did Mr. Manafort reply to Mr. Stone? 18 A. Mr. Manafort thought that would be great, that it was 19 coming out. 20 indicated for so long that the information would come out, but 21 nothing had come out to that point. 22 know, really uncertain how much of the information that was 23 still going to come out was actually going to come out. 24 Q. 25 with Mr. Stone about the information that had come out? He was quite surprised because Mr. Stone had Mr. Manafort was, you After that call, did you also have a direct conversation Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 37 of 105 937 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And what did Mr. Stone say? 3 A. Mr. Stone had indicated that additional information would 4 be coming, but that this was the start of information that had 5 finally come out, which he had indicated much earlier. 6 Q. 7 information during the summer? 8 A. 9 changed, but we did have subsequent conversations. Did you continue to talk with Mr. Stone about additional Yes. Less frequently because my role on the campaign 10 Q. Did you continue to speak with Mr. Manafort? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Did you perceive Mr. Manafort to be under pressure? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And what did you perceive Mr. Manafort to be under pressure 15 with respect to? 16 A. 17 talked about, rumored that it would be coming out, and nothing 18 had ever come out up until July 22nd. 19 information came out, at that time it was, again, one of 20 disbelief because for so long it had been talked about coming 21 out and, finally, it had finally come out. 22 Q. 23 talked about," who was talking about it? 24 A. 25 attention in the public domain as well. Again, up until July 22nd, for months information had been The first time that the And to be clear, sir, when you say "for so long it had been Initially, Mr. Stone. And then, obviously, it gained Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 38 of 105 938 1 Q. Did Mr. Manafort instruct you to do anything in this time 2 related to Mr. Stone? 3 A. 4 to find out when the additional information might be coming 5 out. 6 Q. 7 the information that you would provide from Mr. Stone? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. What did Mr. Manafort tell you he intended to do? 10 A. He indicated that he would be updating other people on the 11 campaign, including the candidate. 12 Q. And the "candidate," that's Mr. Trump; is that correct? 13 A. Correct. 14 Q. So, Mr. Manafort indicated to you that he would be updating 15 the candidate on the information you got; is that right? 16 A. Among others, yes. 17 Q. I want to move now to the period, again, shortly after the 18 July 22nd, 2016 release of information. Yes. He asked me to follow up with Mr. Stone on occasion And did Mr. Manafort tell you what he intended to do with 19 Did there come a time when you heard another phone 20 call with Mr. Stone? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. I want to talk for a moment about that phone call. 23 Do you remember approximately when that phone call 24 took place? 25 A. It took -- the latter part of July. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 39 of 105 939 1 Q. Was it after the July 22nd release of emails? 2 A. It was. 3 Q. After the July 22nd release of DNC emails, what time of 4 day, if you remember, was that phone call? 5 A. It was during the evening. 6 Q. And how did you know that Mr. Stone was on the phone? 7 A. I saw his cell phone number on the caller ID display on the 8 phone. 9 Q. Could you hear Mr. Stone's voice at all? 10 A. I could hear the voice. 11 Q. So you could hear that it was his voice, but you couldn't 12 make out the content; is that correct? 13 A. Correct. 14 Q. Who else was on that phone call? 15 A. At that time it was the candidate, Mr. Trump. 16 Q. Immediately after the call with Mr. Stone ended, did 17 Mr. Trump say anything to you? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. And what did Mr. -- I could not hear the conversation. He had made a remark in regards to the call. 20 MR. ROGOW: Your Honor, objection. 21 THE COURT: All right. 22 Don't answer the question. 23 Just ask the question. 24 And then you can object to the question, then we'll 25 discuss it. Ask the question. But, I want to get the record clear as to what Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 40 of 105 1 940 you're about to ask. 2 MR. ZELINSKY: 3 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 4 Q. 5 did Mr. Trump say to you? Thank you, Your Honor. Immediately after the phone call with Mr. Stone ended, what 6 THE COURT: 7 Come to the bench. 8 Do you object? 9 MR. ROGOW: Yes. 10 THE COURT: You can tell me why. 11 (Bench discussion:) 12 MR. ROGOW: 13 MR. ZELINSKY: 14 the truth of the matter asserted. 15 witness will answer that Mr. Trump told him there would be 16 additional dumps of information coming out. 17 therefore, it's not hearsay. 18 him that. 19 of information would be coming out. 20 elicit from this witness. 21 All right. Don't answer the question. Because it's hearsay, Your Honor. Your Honor, it's not being put in for We anticipate that the It's a prediction, He isn't saying Mr. Stone told He's just making a statement that additional dumps THE COURT: Okay. That's all that we plan to So, I think if the statement had 22 been, Roger just told me that additional documents were going 23 to be coming out, that I would sustain the objection, because 24 it asserts a fact that Mr. Stone had just told him that. 25 also is assuming the fact that it's asserting a fact that This Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 41 of 105 941 1 they're not seeking to introduce for the truth of the matter 2 asserted; they're seeking to introduce for the fact that he 3 said it, which is ascribed to be inference that that's what 4 Mr. Stone said to him. 5 use of the statement. But, they're not making a huge thing, 6 So, why is it objectionable under the hearsay rule? 7 MR. ROGOW: Because the only conclusion to be drawn 8 from the statement is this is what was said. The connection 9 between the timing in the telephone call and what they're 10 seeking to get from Mr. Gates is, I think, classic hearsay for 11 the truth of it. 12 the truth, I think, is being willfully blind to what it is 13 being offered for. 14 For them to say it's not being offered for THE COURT: Well, you can admit statement -- 15 out-of-court statements just for the fact that they are said, 16 if it's relevant. 17 that's not -- just the fact that it's evidence against someone 18 doesn't mean it's not admissible. 19 Mr. Trump say anything? 20 point? 21 he say? 22 I understand that it's prejudicial, but They're saying that -- did So what did Mr. Trump say at that In other words, what was his state of mind? What did And, so, it's immediately after he gets off the call. 23 It does give rise to the inference that that's what he learned 24 from your client. 25 under the definition of hearsay. But, I don't understand how that's covered Hearsay is a statement that Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 42 of 105 942 1 is being introduced for the truth of the matter asserted, not 2 for the fact that it was said. 3 They're not -- the matter asserted in the statement 4 was, There will be more releases. 5 it for the fact that it was said at that time and in that 6 context; yes, it's true. 7 prohibited by the rule against hearsay because I don't see how 8 it's hearsay. 9 MR. ROGOW: So, they're only introducing But, I don't see how that's Well, certainly -- I mean, I start with 10 it's being offered for the purpose of the truth of the Stone 11 statement without any basis for what Stone said, because the 12 inference they're trying to draw is that after that 13 conversation, when Mr. Trump says something, there's going to 14 be more coming or whatever it is he's going to say, is being 15 offered to make the connection to Stone based on a statement 16 that has no content at all. 17 I mean, this is -- when he's relating what Mr. Trump 18 said, he is relating the statement of another. And I think 19 what the issue is -- for me is, there's no question he's 20 offering it for the truth and the inference from the truth. 21 THE COURT: Well, he's offering it for the -- 22 MR. ROGOW: Yes. 23 THE COURT: -- inference that he learned it from 24 Stone, no question. But, I guess what I'm saying is, he's not 25 offering the words that came out of the president's mouth for Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 43 of 105 943 1 the truth of the words that came out of the president's mouth, 2 which takes it outside of hearsay. 3 And then the question is, why would it be 4 inadmissible that he hung up the phone and said that? 5 it. 6 trying to bring out. He said And it's just the fact that it was said that they're 7 Now, it seems to me, on cross, you can say, You 8 didn't hear what Stone told him. 9 told him. You don't know what Stone 10 MR. ROGOW: Of course. 11 THE COURT: You don't know if he was just making his 12 prediction, do you? 13 So, I think the inference may not be as strong as 14 they put it out to be. 15 that's what Stone told him. 16 called the president, and when the president hung up, the 17 president was talking about more releases. 18 told the committee is, I didn't talk to anybody in the campaign 19 about any releases. 20 They can argue later that he said that I mean, all we know is that he And what Mr. Stone So, this tends to go to the truth or falsity. It 21 doesn't prove it outright, but it's evidence that bears on it. 22 So, it certainly seems relevant. 23 as the government wants it to be. 24 25 I don't think it's as strong But, he wouldn't be able to say, Roger Stone just told me X. But, I don't see why they can't -- why X is going Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 44 of 105 1 to happen with the jury being instructed that that's only 2 admissible for the fact that Mr. Stone said it and not the 3 truth of it. 4 944 I don't know how it meets the definition of hearsay. 5 If it doesn't meet the definition of hearsay, it's not excluded 6 by the hearsay rules. 7 to tell me, but I think that all goes to the weight of it and 8 not the admissibility of it, and those are relevance issues and 9 not hearsay issues. 10 11 I mean, this is a serious objection. I'm taking it seriously. 12 13 I mean, I understand what you're trying MR. ROGOW: I understand. And I understand Your THE COURT: It's hearsay to just say, Oh, man, dah, Honor's -- 14 15 dah, dah. 16 not making a statement of fact that they are trying to 17 introduce for the truth of the fact, then it's not hearsay. 18 It's outside the hearsay rules. 19 first you have to start with hearsay. 20 Whatever he said after he got off the phone, if he's MR. ROGOW: 21 objection. 22 that extent. 23 24 25 All the hearsay exceptions, I understand. I mean, I made my I understand where Your Honor is coming from to THE COURT: Okay. All right. All right. and you're sure he's not going to say -MR. ZELINSKY: Yes, Your Honor. I think -- Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 45 of 105 1 THE COURT: 2 MR. ZELINSKY: 3 945 -- President told me -I've been very careful about this. I am 100 percent confident. 4 THE COURT: Okay. 5 MR. ZELINSKY: One other thing I just want to make 6 the record clear, Your Honor had noted that it might not be as 7 strong as the government contended it was. 8 to be clear, there's been no prior conversation at all with the 9 Court regarding this statement and what the government does or Just for the record 10 does not intend this statement to mean. 11 the facts; that is, we're putting it in for the fact that the 12 statement was made after that call. 13 THE COURT: 14 MR. ZELINSKY: 15 16 Okay. We just mean it for Well, at some point -- And we will argue it at some point, yes, Your Honor. THE COURT: -- you'll argue to the jury that he was 17 asked, when he was before Congress, if he communicated with the 18 campaign about WikiLeaks. 19 to this, then I don't know why you're bringing it up. 20 assuming that you're going to you point to this. 21 MR. ZELINSKY: 22 THE COURT: 23 MR. ZELINSKY: 24 THE COURT: 25 (Open court:) And if you're not planning to point So, Yes, Your Honor, that is correct. All right. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 46 of 105 946 1 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 2 Q. 3 then-candidate Trump and Mr. Stone; is that correct? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And you said that you had heard Mr. Stone's voice on the 6 phone, but you couldn't -- Mr. Gates, we had just been discussing a phone call between 7 8 THE COURT: direct. 9 All right. You need to repeat the Let's go to the question that was asked. MR. ZELINSKY: Thank you, Your Honor. 10 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 11 Q. 12 Mr. Stone, what did then-candidate Trump say? 13 A. He indicated that more information would be coming. 14 Q. Do you recall that on October 7th, 2016 WikiLeaks released 15 emails related to John Podesta? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. After WikiLeaks released these emails, did you speak with 18 Roger Stone? 19 A. Yes, at some point after that date. 20 Q. And what did Mr. Stone tell you about the release? 21 A. That he had indicated that the information was out, 22 confirming that it was out. 23 mentioned earlier, both, I think, privately and publicly, that 24 the information would be coming. 25 Q. Mr. Gates, after Mr. Trump got off the phone with And that is something that he had When you say he had mentioned it earlier, did Mr. Stone say Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 47 of 105 1 he had predicted the Podesta release? 2 A. Yes, that there would be more information coming. 3 Q. We've talked a lot about statements that Mr. Stone was 4 making to you about the material that might be coming. 5 Did you understand Mr. Stone's updates about 6 WikiLeaks to be based on public information? 7 A. 8 from. 9 information. 947 Mr. Stone never indicated where he got the information But, I did not believe that they were public 10 Q. That is, you believed it was nonpublic information? 11 A. I believe, yeah, he had other sources that he was getting 12 the information from. 13 MR. ZELINSKY: 14 THE COURT: 15 No further, questions Your Honor. All right. Cross-examination? CROSS-EXAMINATION 16 BY MR. ROGOW: 17 Q. 18 questions this morning. 19 A. Okay. 20 Q. You said earlier that you met twice with the government 21 regarding this case, although you said that you'd met 40 or 50 22 times, altogether, with the government regarding other cases; 23 is that right? 24 A. That is correct. 25 Q. In those 40 or 50 times, are you saying that you were never Mr. Gates, I'm Bruce Rogow, and I'll be asking you some Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 48 of 105 948 1 questioned about Roger Stone in those other interviews you had 2 with the government? 3 A. 4 agreement, and then there was case preparation for the two 5 cases that I was at trial. 6 questioned on a number of issues related to Mr. Stone. 7 Q. There was a combination of interviews pertaining to my plea In the interviews, yes, I was So it's not accurate to say that the only two times -- 8 MR. ZELINSKY: 9 THE COURT: Objection. Well, I think the question he was asked 10 on direct is, Did you meet -- how many times did you meet to 11 prepare for this testimony? 12 And he answered, Twice. 13 MR. ROGOW: And -- 14 THE COURT: So, ask your question. 15 BY MR. ROGOW: 16 Q. 17 twice regarding information about Roger Stone? 18 A. 19 times did I meet to prepare for this trial? 20 you ask the question differently, how many times did the 21 government ask me about Mr. Stone, it would be -- there would 22 be more interviews, that's correct. 23 Q. Would it be 20 times? 24 A. With respect to just Mr. Stone? 25 Q. Not just -- in the questioning of you, did they, over this So it is not accurate that you only met with the government Well, that wasn't the question. 30 times? The question was how many That was two. If 40 times? Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 49 of 105 949 1 period of time, when you met with them -- I think you said over 2 50 times -- did they ask you during those periods of 3 questioning questions about Roger Stone? 4 A. On certain occasions, yes, they did ask me about Mr. Stone. 5 Q. Did you ever tell the government that Stone never talked 6 about WikiLeaks to Gates, to you, and that you were not aware 7 of Stone talking about WikiLeaks to Manafort? 8 A. No, I never said that. 9 Q. Let me show you something. Yes or no? 10 MR. ZELINSKY: Your Honor, objection. 11 THE COURT: 12 (Bench discussion:) 13 THE COURT: What did you just hand him? 14 MR. ROGOW: The 302 that says on 1-30 -- 15 THE COURT: Okay. All right. Can you approach the bench? I think what you need to say, you 16 need to -- he didn't write the 302. 17 him, Did you meet with this agent on this date, at that time, 18 and did you say the following? 19 it or denies it. 20 through someone else. 21 22 23 I think you can say to You can -- and he either admits But, then you complete the impeachment MR. ROGOW: But he didn't write the 302. I understand. The question I asked him simply was, did he say -- did you make the statement? THE COURT: And he denied it. 24 impeach him. 25 impeach him with the 302. And now you want to And you're entitled to impeach him, but you can't What you can say is, Did you -- you Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 50 of 105 1 can lay the foundation. 2 day? 3 And did you say the following? 4 deny it. Did you meet with an agent on this Was your lawyer there? 5 But, that's it. Were you here? Then you can't move the document in through him because it's not his document. 7 jury transcript. 9 10 MR. ROGOW: chance to look at it. Were you there? And he'll either admit it or 6 8 950 It's like a grand I'm not moving it, but I'm giving him a That's all. I understand. I'll do it your way. 11 THE COURT: That's incorrect to give it to him, 12 because it looks like it's his statement. 13 need to ask the questions. 14 made to FBI agents, but it's a different process than if it's 15 his statement. 16 MR. ROGOW: 17 MR. ZELINSKY: So, I think you just You can impeach him with statements I understand. Your Honor, to be clear, the 18 government objects to the use of any 302 being handed up to the 19 witness that is not written by the witness. 20 clear with Mr. Rogow about going forward, because he's just 21 handed a document to the witness that is not proper. 22 THE COURT: Okay. I just want to be I think you need to take it back. 23 I think that you asked the appropriate predicate question, Did 24 you ever tell him that Roger Stone did these things? 25 No. He said, And now you can direct him to the date and time and who he Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 51 of 105 1 was talking to and ask him again. 2 But, then you have to decide, in your case in chief, 3 if you want to put the agent on to say that didn't happen. 4 But, you can't move the statement in and you can't use the 5 statement. 6 you're impeaching him. 7 8 951 I mean, you're not refreshing his recollection; MR. ROGOW: So, why did you give him the statement? I gave him the statement so he could tell me whether or not, if he said it or didn't say it. That's all. 9 THE COURT: Right. 10 MR. ROGOW: No. 11 THE COURT: So, you can't just hand it off like that. 12 It's not his. I understand. All right. 13 (Open court:) 14 BY MR. ROGOW: 15 Q. Do you remember being questioned on January 30th, 2018? 16 A. I don't recall that specific date, but I remember being 17 questioned on a number of dates. 18 Q. 19 you questions with regard to you talking to Mr. Stone about 20 WikiLeaks? 21 A. 22 date, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. 23 Q. 24 the date? 25 A. Do you remember being questioned by an FBI agent who asked I don't recall specifically being asked questions that Do you remember being asked that question, putting aside Yes. On several occasions. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 52 of 105 952 1 Q. And did you answer that you did not speak to Stone about 2 WikiLeaks? 3 A. 4 number of occasions where I indicated that he had. 5 big piece of why he was reaching out to a number of people on 6 the campaign. 7 Q. 8 the way I asked? 9 A. I do not recall answering that way. It was a You just simply don't remember if you answered the question I don't recall answering the question that Mr. Stone had 10 never indicated anything about WikiLeaks. 11 either -- that's not what I recall. 12 Q. 13 call that we were just talking about. 14 In fact, there were a I think that is Let me ask you a couple of questions about the telephone Did you hear the content of the telephone call? 15 A. I did not. 16 Q. Do you know what Mr. Stone said to Mr. Trump? 17 A. I do not. 18 Q. Do you -- you heard his voice; is that right? 19 A. Correct. 20 Q. But you could not tell the content of the communication? 21 A. That is correct. 22 Q. And where were you when this call took place? 23 A. In the car with Mr. Trump. 24 Q. Were you going from Trump Tower to LaGuardia Airport? 25 A. I believe that's correct, yes. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 53 of 105 1 Q. And how long a ride is that? 2 A. Roughly, 20 minutes with the motorcade. 3 Q. And in that car -- what kind of car were you in? 4 A. It was a Suburban, I believe. 5 Q. And were you sitting in the back with Mr. Trump? 6 A. I was sitting diagonal in the back to him, yes. 7 Q. You say "diagonal in the back to him." 8 seat? 9 A. 953 He was in the front Well, he's in the middle seat, and then I was in the far 10 back. 11 Q. The far back? 12 A. Correct. 13 Q. Who else was in the car? 14 A. I don't recall who else was in the car at that time. 15 Q. Were there other people in the car? 16 A. The Secret Service, yes. 17 Q. How many Secret Service agents were in the car? 18 A. Two. 19 Q. And where were they sitting? 20 A. In the front seat. 21 front passenger seat. 22 Q. So this was a three-row Suburban? 23 A. Two and a half. 24 Q. And you were in the half? 25 A. Exactly. One was driving and one was in the Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 54 of 105 Okay. 954 1 Q. 2 Alexandria, do you recall what they were? 3 A. 4 submitting accurate tax returns. 5 Q. I'm sorry. 6 A. Not submitting accurate tax returns. 7 Q. And how inaccurate were the tax returns? 8 A. There were, I think, at least, before we corrected them, 9 three years of tax returns where income was not fully reported. Yes. The other crimes that were dropped against you in Most of them pertain to foreign bank accounts and not I didn't hear the last part. 10 Q. And how much income was not fully reported? 11 A. It varied by year, depending on the year. 12 Q. Do you have -- 13 THE COURT: Which tax returns are we talking about? 14 THE WITNESS: My personal tax returns. 15 BY MR. ROGOW: 16 Q. Do you have any idea about how much was not reported? 17 A. I don't. 18 Q. Was it more than 100,000? 19 A. Yes, it was. 20 Q. Do you have tax liability now, as a result? 21 A. I do. 22 Q. Was a money laundering charge dropped also? 23 A. It was. 24 Q. What was that about? 25 A. That was pertaining to money Mr. Manafort had earned from Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 55 of 105 955 1 his foreign political contracts, in terms of not reporting the 2 amount of income he received on his U.S. tax returns. 3 Q. 4 they're dropped, unless you don't answer honestly here? 5 that your understanding? 6 A. That is correct. 7 Q. Where there other untruths that you said along the way for 8 which you were not prosecuted? 9 A. In what regard? 10 Q. In regard to -- 11 A. The second charge? And you will not be prosecuted for those crimes now that 12 THE COURT: Is Can you just be more clear with the 13 question? "Along the way," are -- to whom? 14 BY MR. ROGOW: 15 Q. 16 that were dropped, money laundering charges were dropped; is 17 that correct? 18 A. That's correct. 19 Q. Failure to file accurate personal tax returns were dropped; 20 is that correct? 21 A. Correct. 22 Q. And have you committed other crimes, besides those crimes, 23 for which you were not prosecuted? 24 MR. ZELINSKY: 25 THE COURT: The charges that were brought against you in Alexandria Objection. All right. I'm sorry to continue with Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 56 of 105 1 the bench conferences, but these are important matters, and 2 everybody is allowed to be heard. 3 Can you come to bench, please. 4 (Bench discussion:) 5 THE COURT: 6 MR. ZELINSKY: 956 What's your objection? Your Honor, it's a completely 7 open-ended question. You can't impeach a witness by asking if 8 they've ever committed any other crimes for which they haven't 9 been prosecuted. If Mr. Rogow has a particular thing in mind. 10 But, to ask a witness to declare every criminal act they've 11 ever committed which the government has put on prosecution is 12 not -- 13 THE COURT: You don't even know if -- 14 You are allowed to lead this witness, and you are 15 allowed to cross-examine this witness about anything that is 16 subject to this plea agreement, anything that the government is 17 aware of that he has admitted to that he's not going to be 18 prosecuted for. 19 as you're well aware has already been done in other cases, 20 because you have transcripts from other cases. And you can take him through it line-by-line, 21 MR. ROGOW: Of course. 22 THE COURT: But asking him these open-ended 23 questions -- Have you told any other untruths along the way? 24 don't even know what that question meant. 25 any other crimes? Have you committed That's not the way to do it. I Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 57 of 105 1 You're allowed to get to the subject matter, 2 absolutely, but I think you have to ask more specific, more 3 focused questions. 4 what has the government agreed not to prosecute him for. Because it isn't just what he's done; it's 5 MR. ROGOW: That, we have out already. 6 THE COURT: All right. 7 MR. ZELINSKY: 8 (Open court:) 9 Thank you, Your Honor. BY MR. ROGOW: 10 Q. 11 tax returns, how much was involved in that? 12 A. The charge of conspiracy with Mr. Manafort filing the false Approximately $6 million, for Mr. Manafort. 13 14 957 THE COURT: And whose tax returns was that related to? 15 THE WITNESS: Mr. Manafort's returns. 16 BY MR. ROGOW: 17 Q. On your tax returns, did you take false expense deductions? 18 A. Yes, I did. 19 Q. On your personal return, did you lie about foreign bank 20 accounts? 21 A. I did. 22 Q. You had foreign bank accounts -- 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. -- correct? 25 And there's a question on the tax return as to Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 58 of 105 1 whether or not you have foreign bank accounts, correct? 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. And you -- 4 5 THE COURT: 958 Are we talking about the particular returns that were at issue in the Virginia case? 6 THE WITNESS: 7 THE COURT: 8 THE WITNESS: 9 THE COURT: Yes, ma'am. What years were those? Those were from 2011 to 2013. Okay. 10 BY MR. ROGOW: 11 Q. 12 returns? 13 A. I had two. 14 Q. Either one. 15 A. The first one never asked about foreign bank accounts. 16 second one took over my taxes in 2014. 17 was not aware until we went back and redid the tax returns. 18 Q. And did you have accounts in Cyprus? 19 A. Yes. 20 Cyprus. 21 Q. Did you take any steps to try to avoid taxes in Cyprus? 22 A. Actually, in Cyprus, taxes were paid. 23 Q. Pardon me? 24 A. I said, actually, in Cyprus, taxes were paid. 25 Q. Did you take any money from that account in Cyprus or from Did you lie to the tax preparer who prepared your tax So, I'm not sure which one you're referring to. The So, the time had -- he Mr. Man- -- I set up accounts for Mr. Manafort in Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 59 of 105 959 1 any account with Mr. Manafort and not tell him? 2 A. I did. 3 Q. Did you pay taxes on the money that you took from 4 Mr. Manafort's account? 5 A. Some of it, not all of it. 6 Q. Not all of it? 7 A. Correct. 8 Q. All right. 9 were seeking loans during this period of time when you were Did you tell the truth to banks from whom you 10 working with Mr. Manafort? 11 A. 12 forms that were prepared were prepared by me and Mr. Manafort's 13 accountant, and then those were submitted by Mr. Manafort. 14 Q. 15 they were preparing those loan requests? 16 A. 17 of the different companies that Mr. Manafort had established. 18 Q. I actually had very little contact with the banks. And did the accountants seek any information from you when Yes. They were seeking articles of incorporation from some Did you -- 19 20 The THE COURT: The bank loans that we're talking about here were loans to whom? 21 THE WITNESS: To Mr. Manafort. 22 BY MR. ROGOW: 23 Q. How about loans to yourself? 24 A. I'm not sure what you're -- I don't believe I had any 25 loans. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 60 of 105 1 Q. 2 financial institution? Did you ever seek loans for yourself from a bank or any 3 4 MR. ZELINSKY: A. 960 Objection. A mortgage. 5 THE COURT: Mr. Rogow, there's an objection. 6 MR. ROGOW: I don't have another question on that. 7 So, I don't know what -- 8 9 THE COURT: Okay. I don't think there was a -- there was a count related to any bank loan to Mr. Gates. 10 BY MR. ROGOW: 11 Q. 12 for yourself or for Mr. Manafort? Did you alter documents to give to banks to secure loans 13 14 THE COURT: You have to ask one or the other. think there's only one at issue. 15 You keep saying "your loan," and they weren't 16 necessarily his personal loans. 17 specific with the verbiage of your question. 18 BY MR. ROGOW: 19 Q. 20 yourself when you sought loans from the bank? 21 A. For myself -- for Mr. Manafort, yes. 22 Q. Did you -- 25 So, I think you need to be Did you alter any documents in order to secure loans for 23 24 I THE COURT: Okay. Not for myself. Can you come back to the bench, please? (Bench discussion:) Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 61 of 105 1 2 THE COURT: 961 Do you have any factual basis to ask him whether he defrauded banks in connection with loans to himself? 3 MR. ROGOW: Yes. The question was asked before. And 4 he answered it, in the Craig trial, that he altered documents 5 for bank loans. 6 THE COURT: To himself? 7 MR. ROGOW: I don't recall if it was to himself or THE COURT: They weren't to himself. 8 not. 9 You can't ask 10 questions suggesting facts that are not in evidence for which 11 you have no factual basis. 12 of the documents that were entered in evidence in the Eastern 13 District of Virginia case involving -- only Manafort was 14 charged with defrauding the banks, but he participated in 15 helping him prepare the documents. He was involved in the transmission 16 MR. ROGOW: Yes. 17 THE COURT: You've asked three times about loans to 18 him. And you're allowed to ask him questions, if you have a 19 factual basis that there's some crime out there that he's not 20 being prosecuted for. 21 those questions are going to be stricken from the record 22 because you don't have a factual basis for them. But, you can't just put those -- but, 23 If you would like to consult the Craig transcript and 24 come back and tell me, No, he did admit to falsifying documents 25 related to himself, then it's totally fair game. But, I Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 62 of 105 962 1 believe that you have to be specific here. 2 "you" when sometimes it's Manafort, sometimes it's Davis 3 Manafort. 4 You keep saying And you have to be clear. And I don't believe there's any evidence in the 5 record in any of these cases that he defrauded anyone in 6 connection with the loan to himself. 7 other things he committed. 8 that he did that with your question, and I don't think you have 9 a factual basis to ask that question. You've got plenty of But, you've now suggested twice 10 MR. ROGOW: I hear you. 11 THE COURT: All right. Well, do you think you do? 12 Because if you can't tell me what it is, then I'm just going to 13 say questions related to -- 14 MR. ROGOW: Well, I think, from my reading of the 15 Craig transcript -- and maybe I didn't read it as carefully as 16 it needed to be read with regard to that -- but, he went 17 through a whole long litany, including lying to Visa for his 18 Visa card. 19 20 21 So, isn't that getting credit from a bank? he did lie about that, too. THE COURT: Mr. Rogow, the more specific you are to 22 questions, the less objectionable they're going to be. 23 said, Did you ever apply for a loan? 24 25 Because And he said, I applied for one mortgage. You He said, I didn't alter documents in connection with any loan to me. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 63 of 105 1 Now, I just think you have to be specific. 2 just kind of throw stuff up there and see what sticks. 3 not fair to this witness. 4 fact for your questions. 5 963 You can't It's It's -- you have to have a basis of And Mr. Smith is leaving you a note on your lectern. 6 I don't know if you want to get it to see if it relates to this 7 issue. 8 9 MR. ROGOW: I will. But, I'm going to ask him the Visa question, for which I have a basis. 10 THE COURT: Okay. Well, just be specific with your 11 questions. And if you go back to the Eastern District matter 12 or Cyprus bank accounts or anything else, not paying taxes, I 13 just think in your question you have to talk about whether it's 14 his taxes, Manafort's taxes, you know, the partnership's taxes, 15 just so it's clear. 16 him, but you can't just put stuff out there. I'm not saying you can't cross-examine 17 MR. ZELINSKY: 18 (Open court:) 19 THE COURT: Thank you, Your Honor. All right. The objection to the question 20 about altering documents in connection with a loan for himself 21 is sustained. 22 record. 23 BY MR. ROGOW: 24 Q. 25 yourself? And the question will be stricken from the Did you lie to Visa to get a better credit card for Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 64 of 105 964 1 A. I misrepresented the amount of income I had on a credit 2 card application, correct. 3 Q. 4 Cyprus bank accounts? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. When will you be sentenced? 7 A. The date has not been set yet. 8 Q. You've testified as a government witness in two cases; is 9 that correct? Did you lie in a deposition to conceal Mr. Manafort's 10 A. Prior to this, yes, two. 11 Q. Yes. 12 A. It is, yes. 13 Q. And what was the outcome -- And this is the third case? 14 MR. ZELINSKY: 15 THE COURT: Objection. Sustained. 16 BY MR. ROGOW: 17 Q. 18 its intention to release materials? 19 A. It did make public announcements, correct. 20 Q. And were you aware of those public announcements? 21 A. At the time they were released, yes. 22 Q. And Mr. Stone never indicated to you, did he, what his 23 alleged source of information was? 24 A. He did not. 25 Q. And you don't know whether or not he had a source of Is it not true that WikiLeaks made public announcements of Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 65 of 105 965 1 information, do you? 2 A. I do not. 3 Q. How much time elapsed between the telephone call in the car 4 and the statement that you said was made by Mr. Trump later on? 5 A. 6 less than 30 seconds after the call finished. 7 Q. You were on your way to the airport? 8 A. I believe that's correct, yes. 9 Q. Did you arrive at the airport? 10 A. Yes, we did. 11 Q. Directly? 12 A. Yeah, we went straight to the airport. 13 Q. And who was at the airport waiting for you? 14 A. There were people in the plane there already there. 15 don't recall specifically, other than the pilot and a couple of 16 the Secret Service people. 17 Q. 18 that you're talking about from Mr. Trump was made on the plane? 19 A. 20 the plane. 21 Q. 22 from any personal knowledge that you've gained with regard to 23 the release of the documents? 24 A. I do not. 25 Q. In Exhibit 20 that was shown to you, which were the series Oh, the statement was in the car. It was within, you know, I Did you ever say to any government agent that the statement No. I don't believe this specific statement was made on Do you have any knowledge of WikiLeaks or Julian Assange Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 66 of 105 1 of texts, Please call me, was there any mention in those 2 documents, in those e-mail text exchanges, of WikiLeaks or 3 Assange? 4 A. There were not. 5 Q. Mr. Stone's role in the campaign dealt with voter 6 registration lists, primarily, didn't it? 7 A. 8 when I arrived. 9 campaign. I didn't know what Mr. Stone was responsible for prior to When I arrived, Mr. Stone had already left the 10 Q. 11 registration lists? 12 A. He did. 13 Q. When the campaign received word about the WikiLeaks 14 responses, they received that from public sources, did they 15 not? 16 A. Which time are you referencing? 17 Q. In any of the WikiLeaks drops of information. 18 A. So starting July 22nd, with the first drop -- 19 Q. Yes. 20 A. -- of information? 21 966 Did Mr. Stone continually ask questions about voter Yes. The first instance that myself and 22 Mr. Manafort -- I can't speak to the other people -- heard it 23 was through the TV. 24 Q. And any other leak of information? 25 A. The subsequent leak of the Podesta emails, again, I believe Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 67 of 105 967 1 it was done through -- we found out via the television, or 2 public media. 3 Q. 4 did not tell you that there would be this specific information 5 released; isn't that correct? 6 A. So Mr. Stone, before any of this information was released, That is correct. 7 8 MR. ROGOW: Let me check, Your Honor, but I don't think I have anything more. 9 THE COURT: All right. 10 (Pause.) 11 (Mr. Zelinsky approaching podium.) 12 THE COURT: Well, he's -- hasn't sat down yet. 13 MR. ROGOW: Nothing further, Your Honor. 14 THE COURT: All right. 15 MR. ZELINSKY: 16 Any redirect? Thank you, Your Honor. REDIRECT EXAMINATION 17 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 18 Q. 19 examination about "Mr. Stone had told you"; is that right? 20 A. Correct. 21 Q. Prior to the release of information, did Mr. Stone tell you 22 there was more information coming? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Did he do that on a number of occasions? 25 A. He did. Mr. Gates, you were just asked a lot of questions on cross- Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 68 of 105 968 1 Q. And the -- what did you understand to be the source of 2 Mr. Stone's information on those occasions? 3 A. 4 given that the information was coming from WikiLeaks, I assumed 5 it was WikiLeaks. 6 Q. And did you understand it to be public information? 7 A. No. 8 it was information in advance of those releases. He didn't reference a specific individual or person. 9 Because the press releases hadn't come out yet. MR. ZELINSKY: 10 THE COURT: 11 MR. ZELINSKY: 12 THE COURT: 13 Sir, you're excused. Thank you. 15 THE COURT: Thank you. I think you have another witness; is that correct? 17 MR. ZELINSKY: 18 THE COURT: 20 Can this witness be excused? (Nods head.) All right. THE WITNESS: 19 So, Nothing further, Your Honor. All right. 14 16 But, Yes, Your Honor, one more. All right. So why don't we take our mid-morning break before that happens. Members of the jury, we're going to take the promised 21 break this morning. 22 your notebooks here. 23 yourselves. We'll resume at 10 after 11. Please leave Please don't discuss the case among 24 (Jurors leave the courtroom.) 25 THE COURT: All right. We'll resume in approximately Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 69 of 105 1 10 or 15 minutes. 2 waiting outside the door when we come back. And let's have the next government witness 3 MR. ZELINSKY: 4 THE COURT: 5 (Recess.) 6 THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: 7 Yes, Your Honor. All right. Thank you. Your Honor, recalling Criminal Case Number 19-18, United States of America v. Roger Stone. 8 THE COURT: 9 (Jurors enter the courtroom.) 10 11 Okay. Let's bring in the jury. The government can call its next witness. MR. ZELINSKY: Your Honor, the government recalls Ms. Michelle Taylor. 14 15 All right. THE COURT: 12 13 MR. KRAVIS: Your Honor, we'll use the Elmo for this. Thank you. 16 THE COURT: All right. Ms. Taylor, I just want to 17 remind you that you were sworn to tell the truth, and you 18 remain under oath at this time. 19 THE WITNESS: 20 THE COURT: 21 22 969 Thanks. All right. MICHELLE TAYLOR, having been previously sworn, testified as follows: 23 DIRECT EXAMINATION 24 BY MR. KRAVIS: 25 Q. Good morning, Ms. Taylor. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 70 of 105 970 1 A. Good morning. 2 Q. When you first testified last week, do you remember 3 testifying about the release of some emails of the Democratic 4 National Committee by an organization called WikiLeaks on 5 July 22nd, 2016? 6 A. Yes, I do. 7 Q. What was the name of the online persona or figure who took 8 credit for hacking or obtaining those documents from the 9 Democratic National Committee? 10 A. Guccifer 2.0. 11 Q. During Mr. Stone's testimony before the House Intelligence 12 Committee, was he asked about that persona, Guccifer 2.0, and 13 that alleged hack? 14 A. Yes, he was. 15 MR. ZELINSKY: I would like to publish now, please, 16 for the witness and the jury, what's been admitted as 17 Government's Exhibit 1. 18 Exhibit 1. 19 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 20 Q. 21 of -- oh, and, Ms. Taylor, just to remind the jury, what is 22 Government's Exhibit 1? 23 A. This is a transcript of Mr. Stone's testimony before HPSCI. 24 Q. I've put on the screen in front of you page 28 of the 25 transcript. This is page 28 of Government's Ms. Taylor, I want to direct your attention to the portion Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 71 of 105 1 971 Can you read for us, please, the question and answer 2 that I have highlighted there? 3 A. 4 American public are aware, from press reporting, that Russia is 5 accused of hacking democratic emails, is that -- "MR. SWALWELL: 6 In 2016, August of 2016, you and the "MR. STONE. Yes." 7 Q. I want to direct your attention now to page 29, the next 8 page of the same exhibit. 9 Can you read, please, the question and answer that 10 I've highlighted on page 29 of Government's Exhibit 1, the 11 transcript? 12 A. "MR. SWALWELL: 13 It took me a while, too. "Were you aware when you wrote that article, the 14 Breitbart one, that Guccifer 2.0 was assessed by the 15 Intelligence Community as a cutout for the Russian intelligence 16 services? 17 "MR. STONE: I was aware of that claim, but I don't 18 subscribe to it. 19 you can find online that questions that. 20 assertion, but as I said in my statement, our intelligence 21 agencies are often wrong." 22 Q. 23 to page 113, bottom of 113 to the top of 114 of the same 24 exhibit, the transcript. 25 There's a substantial amount of information I realize it's an Finally, Ms. Taylor, I would like to direct your attention First, can you read for us, please, the question that Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 72 of 105 972 1 starts at the bottom of page 113 of the transcript? 2 A. 3 conclusion of the intelligence community that Guccifer 2 is a 4 cutout of the Russian intelligence agencies." 5 Q. And Mr. Stone's response? 6 A. "MR. STONE: 7 Q. Now, did the report prepared by the House Intelligence 8 Committee include any discussion of WikiLeaks? 9 A. "MR. SCHIFF: Mr. Stone, you've acknowledged that it's the They have said that, yes." Yes. 10 MR. ZELINSKY: Could I have this for the witness 11 only, for the moment, please. 12 BY MR. ZELINSKY: 13 Q. 14 the moment, for identification only as Government's Exhibit 15 6-B. Ms. Taylor, I'm going to show you what has been marked, for 16 17 Do you recognize Government's Exhibit 6-B? A. Yes. 18 19 It's a page of the HPSCI report. MR. ZELINSKY: At this time, the government moves Exhibit 6-B into evidence. 20 THE COURT: Any objection? 21 MR. ROGOW: It's in evidence. 22 THE COURT: Yeah. 23 right. Do you mean all of the -- all There's no -- is there any objection? 24 MR. ROGOW: No objection. 25 THE COURT: All right. It's in evidence. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 73 of 105 1 2 MR. KRAVIS: 973 And may I publish it for the jury, please? 3 THE COURT: Yes. 4 BY MR. KRAVIS: 5 Q. 6 I've highlighted at the bottom of the first column? 7 A. 8 malign influence campaign, and served as a third-party 9 intermediary for Russian intelligence during the period leading Ms. Taylor, can you read for us, please, the paragraph that "WikiLeaks. WikiLeaks played a key role in Russian's 10 up to the 2016 U.S. presidential election." 11 Q. 12 identification as Government's Exhibit 214. Finally, Ms. Taylor, I've handed you what's been marked for 13 Do you recognize Government's 214? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. What is it? 16 A. It is a transcript of the Frank Pentangeli testimony scene 17 from The Godfather II. 18 Q. And have you seen The Godfather, Part II? 19 A. Yes, I have. 20 Q. Once or more than once? 21 A. More than once. 22 Q. And this particular scene in the movie The Godfather, Part 23 II, have you seen this scene more than once? 24 A. Definitely more than once. 25 Q. When was the last time you saw that scene in the movie? Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 74 of 105 974 1 A. Last night. 2 Q. And based on having seen this portion of the movie -- oh, 3 and have you had a chance to review Government's Exhibit 214, 4 the transcript? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Based on your review of the transcript and your viewing of 7 the movie, is Government's Exhibit 214 a fair and accurate 8 transcript of the Frank Pentangeli congressional testimony 9 scene in the movie? 10 A. Yes. 11 12 MR. ZELINSKY: THE COURT: All right. It will be admitted pursuant to the rulings earlier. 15 MR. KRAVIS: 16 Thank you, Ms. Taylor. 17 No further questions. 18 THE COURT: 19 Subject to further redaction, the government moves Exhibit 214 into evidence. 13 14 All right. Thank you, Your Honor. Any cross-examination with respect to these matters? 20 CROSS-EXAMINATION 21 BY MR. ROGOW: 22 Q. Good morning, again, Ms. Taylor. 23 A. Good morning. 24 Q. Do you know, independently, whether or not Guccifer is 25 Russian? Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 75 of 105 975 1 A. I don't. 2 Q. Did Mr. Stone turn over his communications with Guccifer 3 that he mentioned in the transcript? 4 A. He did. 5 Q. Did you find any other communications between Mr. Stone and 6 Guccifer? 7 A. I'm not aware of any. 8 MR. ROGOW: Nothing further, Your Honor? 9 THE COURT: All right. Can this witness be excused? 10 MR. KRAVIS: Yes. 11 THE COURT: Okay. All right. Does the government have any other 12 Thank you very much. You can step down. 13 14 Thank you, Your Honor. witnesses to call? 15 MR. KRAVIS: No further witnesses. The government 16 does have some additional exhibits to move into evidence at 17 this time. 18 THE COURT: 19 presence of the jury? 20 MR. KRAVIS: All right. Do we need to do that in the There are two stipulations that have 21 been signed by the defense that we would like to read for the 22 jury. 23 THE COURT: 24 MR. KRAVIS: 25 THE COURT: Okay. All right. Thank you, Your Honor. Let's do that now. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 76 of 105 1 MR. KRAVIS: 976 The first is Government's Exhibit 203, 2 this has been marked and previously admitted. It's a 3 stipulation regarding the location of the hearing. 4 And may I read it to the jury? 5 THE COURT: 6 But, first, I would like to tell you, a stipulation Yes. 7 is an agreement between the parties of the facts that are about 8 to be read to you. 9 the case. And you can consider that as evidence in 10 Go ahead. 11 MR. KRAVIS: 12 13 Thank you, Your Honor. Government's Exhibit 203. The parties stipulate to the following fact: 14 Defendant Roger J. Stone's testimony before the United States 15 House of Representatives Permanent Select Committee on 16 Intelligence on September 26th, 2017 occurred in the District 17 of Columbia. 18 I have one further stipulation to read for the jury. 19 This is Government's Exhibit 210. 20 identification that's been signed by the parties. 21 THE COURT: 22 MR. KRAVIS: It's a stipulation regarding All right. The parties hereby agree and stipulate 23 as follows: The defendant is the individual named Roger Stone 24 referenced in the trial testimony and the exhibits admitted 25 into evidence in this case. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 77 of 105 1 2 THE COURT: Are there any other stipulations that you're planning to introduce at this time? 3 MR. KRAVIS: Your Honor, at this time the government 4 moves into evidence Exhibits 201 and 202, stipulations 5 regarding phone numbers and email. 6 them to the jury. 7 8 977 But I'm not asking to read I would like to just move them. THE COURT: All right. They'll be admitted, and they'll be available. 9 One simply relates to whose phone number is whose of 10 the documents you've reviewed. 11 email address is whose. 12 identified in that way through the testimony, but you will have 13 the stipulation that the parties have agreed to with respect to 14 those matters. 15 MR. KRAVIS: And the other identifies whose And you've been seeing documents And finally, Your Honor, the government 16 moves into evidence the portion of Mr. Bannon's grand jury 17 transcripts referenced in his testimony on Friday, Exhibit 209. 18 19 THE COURT: Is it in evidence? Can you approach the bench about that? 20 MR. KRAVIS: Yes, Your Honor. 21 (Bench discussion:) 22 THE COURT: I understand it's a sworn out-of-court 23 statement that was inconsistent with his in-court testimony. 24 But, after you read it to him, didn't he adopt it as his 25 testimony? Is it necessary to move it in? Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 78 of 105 1 MR. KRAVIS: 978 He did not adopt it as his testimony. 2 He acknowledged that the words were read correctly. 3 think that given the state of the record, we're entitled to 4 move in the prior inconsistent statement. 5 THE COURT: All right. 6 MR. BUSCHEL: But I Do you object? We object. He certainly, when I tried 7 to impeach him with his statement that had been made to a 8 federal agent, or the actual grand jury, he harmonized it and 9 said, Oh, the access point was -- we considered it an access 10 point for the campaign, and then he harmonized it. 11 12 THE COURT: I think it was the frequent, is that the one you want? 13 MR. KRAVIS: Yes. And we don't have to resolve this 14 right now, subject to the admission. But, I believe the rule 15 is that once he's made the inconsistent statement, the prior 16 statement comes into evidence. 17 THE COURT: If it's sworn, it's admissible under the 18 rules. 19 be helpful for you to give both sides exactly the excerpt that 20 you're planning to introduce, so that we can make a ruling 21 based on that rather than the general statement. 22 that later. 23 24 25 I think that's true. MR. KRAVIS: I just -- but, I think it would Certainly. I was raising it now only to preserve it before we rest. MR. BUSCHEL: So we'll do Well -- I'm sorry. Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 79 of 105 1 THE COURT: Yeah. 979 I mean, I want to hear your 2 objection, but I think you should at least see which statement 3 he's intending to introduce before we rule on it. 4 MR. BUSCHEL: 5 THE COURT: 6 MR. BUSCHEL: 7 If the government is resting, we do have a Rule 29 to 8 file and a jury -- proposed jury instruction that we are giving 9 to the government, just for timing-wise. 10 THE COURT: May I? Yes. I didn't mean to cut off the Court. Well, what I was planning to do is if he 11 says, With that, the government rests, to excuse the jury for 12 lunch, and then to chitchat with you about what's happening 13 next. 14 15 And if you give me something to read, I want to read it before we discuss it. 16 MR. BUSCHEL: 17 THE COURT: Right. And so we'll talk about scheduling after 18 we've excused them from the room. 19 approach. 20 MR. BUSCHEL: 21 THE COURT: 22 MR. KRAVIS: 23 (Open court:) 24 MR. KRAVIS: 25 THE COURT: I think that's the best Okay. All right. Thank you. Thank you, Your Honor. With that, the government rests. All right. Before we proceed to what Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 80 of 105 980 1 comes next in the trial, there's a number of legal and 2 logistical matters that we need to discuss with the parties 3 that I think it would be better for everyone if we are able to 4 discuss them without your having to listen to the husher. 5 So what I think I'm going to do is excuse you for an 6 early lunch. It's a little dicey to figure out exactly when I 7 would need you to return. 8 until 1:30, that we'll resume at 1:30. 9 here for some or all of that period of time, so that may get But, at this point I'm going say The people here may be 10 revised. But, at the very least, you all are excused now for 11 two hours, and to be ready, again, at 1:30. 12 While the government has said it rests -- and that 13 means it's not planning to introduce any further exhibits at 14 this time -- that doesn't mean the case has been submitted to 15 you. 16 evidence to be introduced. 17 instructions of law from me. 18 arguments of the parties. 19 yet at a point where you can discuss the matters among 20 yourselves. 21 22 You have not yet heard whether there is additional You have not received the You have not heard the closing And, therefore, you are still not So, enjoy your long lunch break and discuss something else. Thank you. 23 (Jurors leave the courtroom.) 24 THE COURT: 25 All right. Mr. Buschel. Okay. So I understand that you intend to make the motion at the close of Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 81 of 105 981 1 the government's case, but that you have something you would 2 like me to read in connection with that motion? 3 MR. BUSCHEL: 4 submit it momentarily. 5 6 THE COURT: MR. BUSCHEL: Do you have a copy that you could We're making some last minute edits. So, no. 9 10 Okay. We'll hand to Mr. Haley? 7 8 Yes, Judge, under Rule 29. THE COURT: Okay. And then if I, for example, reserve on the motion, what will transpire thereafter? 11 MR. BUSCHEL: The defense will move into evidence 12 everything it has agreed; some government exhibits that weren't 13 presented and some defense exhibits that will not be objected 14 to will be moved into evidence. 15 The only request the defense has is that we publish a 16 certain portion of the audio HPSCI testimony that Mr. Stone 17 gave. It is 50 minutes long. 18 jury. And then after that, the defense will rest. 19 THE COURT: We just ask to publish it to the All right. Have you -- is it a 50-minute 20 contiguous portion of the transcript, or is it chunks that 21 together make up 50 minutes? 22 MR. BUSCHEL: 23 relatively contiguous. 24 seconds long. 25 There are two portions. They are The first clip is 7 minutes and 19 It is from page 47 to page 52. The second clip is 45 minutes and 17 seconds. It is Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 82 of 105 1 from page 84 to page 117. 2 3 THE COURT: All right. MR. BUSCHEL: 5 THE COURT: Yes. Okay. At that time, is the jury also going to have the transcript to follow along? 7 MR. BUSCHEL: 8 THE COURT: 9 And you're going to play the audio? 4 6 982 We just want the jury to listen. Okay. All right. And the audio has already been authenticated as the actual audio? 10 MR. BUSCHEL: 11 THE COURT: It is in evidence as Government's 1-A. All right. And you said you have an 12 additional jury instruction. 13 that this afternoon, that we would have time to have the jury 14 instruction conference at the end of that. 15 probably be something that we would do first thing in the 16 morning and then have the jurors come. 17 wouldn't close tomorrow. 18 I don't know, even if we do all So, that would I don't see why we I don't think I need briefing on any of the issues 19 that are open. 20 reasonable doubt and a few other little gray snips that you all 21 disagreed about. 22 the standard jury instructions as possible. 23 look at everything again. 24 25 It's largely what I'm going to say about And I'm probably going to stick as close to But, I'm going to One issue that came to my -- I think the verdict form needs to be tinkered with. I think the defendant's is he Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 83 of 105 983 1 guilty of Count 2 in the indictment, Count 3 in the indictment 2 is problematical because I'm not sending the indictment to the 3 jury room because I do think it is unduly prejudicial to send 4 it to the jury room. 5 So, I do believe that the verdict form has to say, 6 With respect to this testimony, do you find that that was a 7 false statement in violation of? 8 9 So, I think is it has to be more similar to what the government provided than what the defense provided with respect 10 to the false statements. 11 paraphrases this. 12 specifies exactly what it is that they have to consider in each 13 count as being false. 14 15 16 But, I also think it has to kind of And I think I want a verdict form that So, I think it needs to be redone. And, perhaps, the government can take the laboring oar on that. My question is with respect to Count 1. Count 1 in 17 the indictment charged obstruction through a number of 18 different circumstances. 19 that they -- whether they have to be unanimous about what it 20 was that was the obstructive conduct, or if they only have to 21 be unanimous that he obstructed or not. 22 be an issue with respect to that. 23 that requires special interrogatories or a special unanimity 24 instruction. 25 And I haven't seen an instruction So, and there may not But, it may be something So, I want to know what the parties' positions are Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 84 of 105 984 1 about that. And if you think something more is needed than 2 Count 1, up or down, then I need that in writing before 3 tomorrow morning. 4 MR. BUSCHEL: 5 THE COURT: (Nods head.) Well, I can't tell you when we're going 6 to hear -- I would like to read what you gave me. 7 give you a chance to argue the Rule 29 motion before I take it 8 up. 9 maybe we can reconvene at 12:30 or 12:45, or something like 10 11 And I will So, the sooner you can get it to me the better. And then that, to talk about it. My other question is, I just want to make sure I 12 understand what is in evidence right now when I'm considering 13 the portions of the House report that could bear on the 14 arguments that you're about to make to me about intent and 15 materiality. 16 His entire testimony is in evidence; is that correct? 17 MR. BUSCHEL: 18 THE COURT: 19 MR. BUSCHEL: 20 THE COURT: Yes. So I could refer to anything in that. Yes. Okay. And with respect to the majority 21 report, the original exhibit binder has the whole report. 22 then, I think it was compressed into excerpts; is that correct? 23 MR. KRAVIS: 24 THE COURT: 25 But, Yes, Your Honor. Okay. So the excerpts that are in evidence are just the ones that were shown to the witness? Or Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 85 of 105 985 1 is it more that was marked as -- as, like, the renewed -- is 2 there a revised version of Government's Exhibit 6? 3 MR. KRAVIS: At this time, Your Honor, I believe what 4 is in evidence is Government's Exhibit 6-A, which is what I 5 showed Ms. Taylor last week. 6 nonconsecutive pages from the report. 7 which is a single page that I showed to Ms. Taylor this 8 morning. 9 THE COURT: 10 MR. KRAVIS: I think that's about ten pages, And also Government 6-B, Okay. The defense had on their exhibit list 11 some additional portions of the report that were discussed at 12 the pretrial conference. 13 yet -- 14 THE COURT: 15 MR. KRAVIS: 16 I don't think that those have been Have not been moved in evidence. But our position is the position that we stated at the conference with respect to that. 17 THE COURT: 18 MR. KRAVIS: 19 Court ruled on this. 20 THE COURT: 21 MR. KRAVIS: Which is? Well, a better way to put this is, the Okay. So the portions that the Court ruled are 22 admissible, obviously, the defense can move in in their case. 23 But, I don't think they're yet in evidence. 24 25 THE COURT: Some of them I think -- did you ask Ms. Taylor about any portions of the defense exhibits during Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 86 of 105 1 her testify? 2 MR. KRAVIS: 3 THE COURT: 4 MR. BUSCHEL: 5 THE COURT: 6 986 I -- oh, you're not talking to me. Mr. Buschel? No, I don't believe so. All right. So, would you happen to have handy a copy of 6-A and 6-B? 7 MR. KRAVIS: 8 THE COURT: 9 MR. KRAVIS: I do. All right. That would be useful for me. Just for the record, I'm showing defense 10 counsel, first, 6-B, the page that we admitted this morning, 11 and I'm handing that up. 12 I'm now showing defense counsel what we, I believe, 13 marked, admitted, and showed to the witness as Government's 14 Exhibit 6-A during Ms. Taylor's testimony last week. 15 Exhibit is a total of 18 pages -- they're not consecutive 16 pages -- from the report. 17 18 19 THE COURT: wait a minute. This What is your point of view about -- well, I may not have to ask that question. What is your point of view about whether I can take 20 judicial notice of definitions of terms used in the report that 21 are defined, for example, on pages 2 and 3 of the report? 22 MR. BUSCHEL: Do you have an example? 23 THE COURT: 24 measures taken by the Russians. 25 "multi-facetted leverage cyber attacks, covert platforms, Well, on page 2 they talk about active And they define that as Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 87 of 105 987 1 social media, third-party intermediaries," etcetera. 2 think it bears on what they meant when they said they were 3 investigating Russian interference or Russian active measures 4 and materiality. 5 I don't know that that particular excerpt has been 6 moved in evidence. 7 as an exhibit. 8 relying on. 9 10 And I At one point, the entire report was marked But, it is a public document that you're both So, should I ignore other aspects of it? Or am I allowed to consider other aspects of it? 11 MR. BUSCHEL: I think the Court should only consider 12 what is in evidence. 13 THE COURT: 14 When are you going to give me the thing you want me 15 All right. to read? 16 MR. BUSCHEL: 17 THE COURT: 18 We'll do that at this point. We're good to go. Okay. just have to docket it? 19 MR. BUSCHEL: 20 THE COURT: But you don't have a printer. You Or can you -We have a thumb drive for Mr. Haley. Okay. Or email it to him and he can 21 print it out and bring it to me in chambers, in addition to if 22 you're going to docket it. 23 I'll get it faster that way. So, why don't we break. And why don't we resume 24 at -- this is hard because I like to fit in lunch for 25 everybody, too. The jury is not even getting -- why don't Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 88 of 105 988 1 we resume at 12:30. 2 this discussion, then we'll take a lunch break, if we haven't 3 had it before. 4 what you plan to introduce. 5 6 Okay. And we can start the jury a little later with I appreciate the update, and I'll wait for this pleading. 7 Thank you. 8 (Recess.) 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 And then, perhaps, when we're done with * * * Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 89 of 105 989 1 2 CERTIFICATE OF OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 3 4 I, JANICE DICKMAN, do hereby certify that the above and 5 foregoing constitutes a true and accurate transcript of my 6 stenographic notes and is a full, true and complete transcript 7 of the proceedings to the best of my ability. 8 Dated this 12th day of November, 2019 9 10 11 ________________________________ 12 Janice E. Dickman, CRR, CMR, CCR Official Court Reporter Room 6523 333 Constitution Avenue, N.W. 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903:1, 905:14 candidate [12] - 920:15, 922:1, 923:4, 923:17, 932:7, 932:9, 938:11, 938:12, 938:15, 939:15, 946:3, 946:12 car [9] - 952:23, 953:3, 953:13, 953:14, 953:15, 953:17, 965:3, 965:5 card [3] - 962:18, 963:24, 964:2 careful [2] - 923:13, 945:2 carefully [1] - 962:15 Case [2] - 905:2, 969:7 case [19] - 905:18, 908:7, 908:8, 908:13, 910:4, 918:17, 925:5, 947:21, 948:4, 951:2, 958:5, 961:13, 964:11, 968:22, 976:9, 976:25, 980:14, 981:1, 985:22 cases [6] - 947:22, 948:5, 956:19, 956:20, 962:5, 964:8 CCR [1] - 989:12 cell [1] - 939:7 certain [2] - 949:4, 981:16 certainly [4] - 942:9, 943:22, 978:6, 978:23 CERTIFICATE [1] - 989:2 certify [1] - 989:4 chair [1] - 919:20 chairman [3] - 911:20, 912:1, 923:2 chambers [1] - 987:21 chance [3] - 950:9, 974:3, 984:7 Chandler [2] - 903:9, 905:14 CHANDLER [1] - 903:9 changed [1] - 937:9 channels [1] - 935:9 charge [9] - 915:2, 915:3, 915:13, 915:15, 915:16, 915:24, 954:22, 955:11, 957:10 charged [6] - 914:9, 914:11, 914:13, 914:14, 961:14, 983:17 charges [9] - 912:13, 912:16, 914:1, 914:2, 916:23, 917:12, 917:20, 955:15, 955:16 Charges [2] - 913:23, 914:3 check [2] - 932:23, 967:7 chief [4] - 922:19, 923:18, 924:19, 951:2 chitchat [1] - 979:12 Christopher [1] - 905:11 chunks [1] - 981:20 circumstances [2] - 917:17, 983:18 claim [1] - 971:17 classic [1] - 941:10 clear [9] - 937:22, 939:25, 945:6, 945:8, 950:17, 950:20, 955:12, 962:3, 963:15 clearly [1] - 922:25 client [1] - 941:24 clients [1] - 909:16 Clinton [2] - 922:1, 927:1 clip [2] - 981:23, 981:25 close [3] - 980:25, 982:17, 982:21 closing [1] - 980:17 CMR [1] - 989:12 College [1] - 909:8 college [1] - 909:14 COLUMBIA [2] - 902:1, 902:16 Columbia [1] - 976:17 column [1] - 973:6 combination [1] - 948:3 coming [24] - 921:10, 927:12, 992 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 93 of 105 927:15, 927:21, 931:5, 932:22, 933:19, 936:16, 936:19, 937:4, 937:17, 937:20, 938:4, 940:16, 940:19, 940:23, 942:14, 944:21, 946:13, 946:24, 947:2, 947:4, 967:22, 968:4 comment [1] - 906:23 commit [1] - 912:5 committed [5] - 955:22, 956:8, 956:11, 956:24, 962:7 committee [1] - 943:18 Committee [10] - 925:6, 929:7, 933:7, 934:23, 935:17, 970:4, 970:9, 970:12, 972:8, 976:15 Committee's [5] - 929:11, 929:16, 930:23, 931:3, 931:18 communicated [1] - 945:17 communication [1] - 952:20 communications [4] - 926:10, 934:15, 975:2, 975:5 Community [1] - 971:15 community [1] - 972:3 companies [1] - 959:17 company [1] - 909:20 compared [1] - 907:6 competing [1] - 927:11 competitor [2] - 935:8, 935:11 complete [2] - 949:19, 989:6 completely [1] - 956:6 components [1] - 914:23 comports [1] - 926:5 compressed [1] - 984:22 con [1] - 930:12 conceal [1] - 964:3 conclusion [3] - 905:17, 941:7, 972:3 conduct [1] - 983:20 conducting [1] - 916:14 conference [3] - 982:14, 985:12, 985:16 conferences [1] - 956:1 confident [1] - 945:3 confirm [3] - 905:25, 906:7, 908:6 confirming [1] - 946:22 Congress [3] - 926:5, 926:12, 945:17 congressional [1] - 974:8 connection [7] - 941:8, 942:15, 961:2, 962:6, 962:25, 963:20, 981:2 connections [1] - 926:11 consecutive [1] - 986:15 consequence [2] - 915:12, 915:13 consequences [1] - 915:10 consider [4] - 976:8, 983:12, 987:10, 987:11 considered [1] - 978:9 considering [1] - 984:12 conspiracy [5] - 914:11, 914:16, 914:20, 914:22, 957:10 Conspiracy [1] - 915:23 conspire [1] - 914:18 constitutes [1] - 989:5 Constitution [2] - 903:15, 989:13 consult [1] - 961:23 consulting [2] - 909:12, 909:15 contact [7] - 920:20, 920:23, 921:1, 931:25, 932:12, 959:11 contain [1] - 912:22 contended [1] - 945:7 content [4] - 939:12, 942:16, 952:14, 952:20 context [1] - 942:6 contiguous [2] - 981:20, 981:23 continually [1] - 966:10 continue [7] - 921:3, 932:17, 932:19, 937:6, 937:10, 955:25 contracts [1] - 955:1 convention [6] - 911:13, 911:14, 911:16, 911:18, 919:19 Convention [1] - 911:19 conversation [10] - 919:25, 929:4, 935:25, 936:3, 936:4, 936:6, 936:24, 939:10, 942:13, 945:8 conversations [3] - 924:15, 929:10, 937:9 cooperated [1] - 917:2 cooperation [1] - 918:7 copy [3] - 906:6, 981:5, 986:6 Corporation [1] - 909:17 correct [45] - 910:14, 917:6, 918:3, 918:13, 927:2, 928:19, 928:20, 930:7, 930:8, 931:19, 931:20, 931:22, 933:2, 933:3, 938:12, 938:13, 939:12, 939:13, 945:21, 946:3, 947:24, 948:22, 952:19, 952:21, 952:25, 953:12, 955:6, 955:17, 955:18, 955:20, 955:21, 957:24, 958:1, 958:2, 959:7, 964:2, 964:9, 964:19, 965:8, 967:5, 967:6, 967:20, 968:16, 984:16, 984:22 corrected [1] - 954:8 correctly [1] - 978:2 counsel [5] - 905:5, 905:8, 906:8, 986:10, 986:12 Counsel's [1] - 915:6 count [3] - 914:12, 960:9, 983:13 Count [7] - 915:23, 916:2, 983:1, 983:16, 984:2 countries [1] - 911:4 couple [2] - 952:12, 965:15 course [3] - 915:5, 943:10, 956:21 Court [10] - 903:14, 903:14, 905:23, 906:19, 945:9, 979:6, 985:19, 985:21, 987:11, 989:12 COURT [142] - 902:1, 905:12, 905:16, 906:2, 906:11, 907:4, 907:18, 907:24, 908:2, 921:12, 922:7, 922:10, 922:13, 922:18, 923:3, 923:10, 923:25, 924:14, 924:23, 925:3, 925:19, 925:23, 925:25, 935:22, 939:21, 940:6, 940:10, 940:21, 941:14, 942:21, 942:23, 943:11, 944:14, 944:23, 945:1, 945:4, 945:13, 945:16, 945:22, 945:24, 946:7, 947:14, 948:9, 948:14, 949:11, 949:13, 949:15, 949:23, 950:11, 950:22, 951:9, 951:11, 954:13, 955:12, 955:25, 956:5, 956:13, 956:22, 957:6, 957:13, 958:4, 958:7, 958:9, 959:19, 960:5, 960:8, 960:13, 960:23, 961:1, 961:6, 961:9, 961:17, 962:11, 962:21, 963:10, 963:19, 964:15, 967:9, 967:12, 967:14, 968:10, 968:12, 968:15, 968:18, 968:25, 969:4, 969:8, 969:10, 969:16, 969:20, 972:20, 972:22, 972:25, 973:3, 974:13, 974:18, 975:9, 975:11, 975:18, 975:23, 975:25, 976:5, 976:21, 977:1, 977:7, 977:18, 977:22, 978:5, 978:11, 978:17, 979:1, 979:5, 979:10, 979:17, 979:21, 979:25, 980:24, 981:5, 981:9, 981:19, 982:2, 982:5, 982:8, 982:11, 984:5, 984:18, 984:20, 984:24, 985:9, 985:14, 985:17, 985:20, 985:24, 986:3, 986:5, 986:8, 986:17, 986:23, 987:13, 987:17, 987:20, 989:2 court [9] - 926:22, 941:15, 945:25, 951:13, 957:8, 963:18, 977:22, 977:23, 979:23 Court's [1] - 906:21 Courthouse [1] - 903:15 COURTROOM [2] - 905:1, 969:6 courtroom [5] - 905:4, 908:1, 968:24, 969:9, 980:23 cover [3] - 914:20, 914:22, 925:6 covered [1] - 941:24 covering [1] - 925:17 covert [1] - 986:25 Craig [3] - 961:4, 961:23, 962:15 CRC [1] - 903:14 Credico [2] - 906:22, 907:11 credit [4] - 962:19, 963:24, 964:1, 970:8 crime [1] - 961:19 993 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 94 of 105 crimes [11] - 912:5, 912:8, 914:20, 914:22, 917:10, 954:1, 955:3, 955:22, 956:8, 956:25 criminal [1] - 956:10 Criminal [3] - 902:3, 905:2, 969:6 critical [2] - 925:12, 925:16 cross [6] - 943:7, 947:14, 956:15, 963:15, 967:18, 974:18 Cross [2] - 904:4, 904:6 CROSS [2] - 947:15, 974:20 Cross-Examination [2] - 904:4, 904:6 cross-examination [2] 947:14, 974:18 CROSS-EXAMINATION [2] 947:15, 974:20 cross-examine [2] - 956:15, 963:15 CRR [2] - 903:14, 989:12 cut [1] - 979:6 cutout [2] - 971:15, 972:4 cyber [1] - 986:25 Cyprus [8] - 958:18, 958:20, 958:21, 958:22, 958:24, 958:25, 963:12, 964:4 D D.C [2] - 905:10, 989:14 dah [3] - 944:14, 944:15 damaging [1] - 935:10 date [11] - 921:10, 928:16, 931:16, 931:17, 946:19, 949:17, 950:25, 951:16, 951:22, 951:24, 964:7 Date [1] - 902:6 Dated [1] - 989:8 dates [2] - 921:16, 951:17 Davis [7] - 909:23, 910:13, 910:15, 910:20, 910:23, 910:25, 962:2 DC [3] - 902:6, 902:17, 903:16 dealt [1] - 966:5 dean [2] - 923:21, 923:23 debrief [1] - 932:14 decide [1] - 951:2 decides [3] - 918:14, 918:15, 918:16 decision [2] - 912:12, 912:15 declare [1] - 956:10 deductions [1] - 957:17 Defendant [3] - 902:7, 902:20, 903:1 defendant [3] - 910:4, 976:14, 976:23 defendant's [1] - 982:25 defense [12] - 906:8, 975:21, 981:11, 981:13, 981:15, 981:18, 983:9, 985:10, 985:22, 985:25, 986:9, 986:12 define [1] - 986:24 defined [1] - 986:21 definitely [1] - 973:24 definition [3] - 941:25, 944:4, 944:5 definitions [1] - 986:20 defrauded [2] - 961:2, 962:5 defrauding [1] - 961:14 delegates [1] - 919:19 democratic [1] - 971:5 Democratic [11] - 929:7, 929:11, 929:15, 930:23, 931:2, 931:18, 933:6, 934:22, 935:16, 970:3, 970:9 denied [2] - 926:11, 949:23 denies [1] - 949:19 deny [1] - 950:4 denying [1] - 905:23 deposition [1] - 964:3 deputy [7] - 911:13, 912:4, 919:14, 922:19, 923:1, 923:18, 924:19 DEPUTY [2] - 905:1, 969:6 describe [1] - 909:13 described [1] - 907:10 description [1] - 918:5 descriptors [2] - 906:17, 907:1 detail [3] - 917:3, 923:9, 926:8 details [1] - 918:7 developments [1] - 932:14 diagonal [2] - 953:6, 953:7 dicey [1] - 980:6 DICKMAN [1] - 989:4 Dickman [2] - 903:14, 989:12 different [5] - 911:4, 923:25, 950:14, 959:17, 983:18 differently [1] - 948:20 DIRECT [2] - 908:21, 969:23 Direct [2] - 904:3, 904:6 direct [7] - 936:24, 946:8, 948:10, 950:25, 970:20, 971:7, 971:22 directly [1] - 965:11 director [2] - 934:15, 934:16 disagreed [1] - 982:21 disbelief [3] - 927:13, 929:18, 937:20 discuss [13] - 908:7, 927:3, 930:23, 932:17, 932:19, 935:16, 939:25, 968:22, 979:15, 980:2, 980:4, 980:19, 980:21 discussed [7] - 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921:15 drops [1] - 966:17 duly [1] - 908:19 dumps [2] - 940:16, 940:18 during [10] - 917:21, 932:16, 937:7, 939:5, 949:2, 959:9, 970:11, 973:9, 985:25, 986:14 E e-mail [19] - 902:18, 902:18, 902:19, 902:23, 903:5, 903:8, 903:12, 903:17, 928:6, 928:8, 928:9, 928:11, 928:14, 928:15, 928:16, 931:10, 931:12, 931:14, 966:2 early [2] - 927:15, 980:6 earned [1] - 954:25 East [2] - 903:6, 903:10 Eastern [4] - 917:9, 917:12, 961:12, 963:11 edits [1] - 981:7 educational [1] - 909:7 either [6] - 908:10, 927:3, 949:18, 950:3, 952:11, 958:14 elapsed [1] - 965:3 994 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 95 of 105 election [2] - 911:17, 973:10 elections [1] - 911:3 element [1] - 925:4 elicit [1] - 940:20 eliciting [1] - 923:14 Elmo [1] - 969:14 email [3] - 977:5, 977:11, 987:20 emails [13] - 916:15, 927:17, 933:6, 933:10, 934:23, 935:17, 939:1, 939:3, 946:15, 946:17, 966:25, 970:3, 971:5 employed [2] - 910:6, 910:20 employment [1] - 909:24 end [3] - 911:10, 917:25, 982:14 ended [4] - 939:16, 940:4, 956:7, 956:22 enjoy [1] - 980:21 enlarge [4] - 914:6, 928:6, 929:25, 931:10 enter [3] - 908:1, 912:19, 969:9 entered [1] - 961:12 entire [2] - 984:16, 987:6 entitled [2] - 949:24, 978:3 essential [1] - 925:4 established [2] - 923:19, 959:17 etcetera [1] - 987:1 euphoric [1] - 925:21 evening [1] - 939:5 events [1] - 930:6 eventually [1] - 911:20 evidence [30] - 907:9, 927:18, 941:17, 943:21, 961:10, 961:12, 962:4, 972:19, 972:21, 972:25, 974:12, 975:16, 976:8, 976:25, 977:4, 977:16, 977:18, 978:16, 980:16, 981:11, 981:14, 982:10, 984:12, 984:16, 984:25, 985:4, 985:14, 985:23, 987:6, 987:12 exactly [4] - 953:25, 978:19, 980:6, 983:12 EXAMINATION [5] - 908:21, 947:15, 967:16, 969:23, 974:20 Examination [5] - 904:3, 904:4, 904:4, 904:6, 904:6 examination [3] - 947:14, 967:19, 974:18 examine [2] - 956:15, 963:15 examined [1] - 908:20 example [4] - 935:12, 981:9, 986:21, 986:22 exceptions [1] - 944:18 excerpt [2] - 978:19, 987:5 excerpts [2] - 984:22, 984:24 exchanges [1] - 966:2 excluded [1] - 944:5 excuse [2] - 979:11, 980:5 excused [5] - 968:10, 968:12, 975:9, 979:18, 980:10 Exhibit [31] - 904:8, 904:9, 904:9, 904:10, 904:10, 912:25, 915:22, 916:17, 928:5, 929:24, 931:9, 965:25, 970:17, 970:18, 970:22, 971:10, 972:14, 972:16, 972:19, 973:12, 974:3, 974:7, 974:12, 976:1, 976:12, 976:19, 977:17, 985:2, 985:4, 986:14, 986:15 exhibit [8] - 907:5, 913:8, 913:21, 971:8, 971:24, 984:21, 985:10, 987:7 exhibits [8] - 905:19, 905:21, 975:16, 976:24, 980:13, 981:12, 981:13, 985:25 Exhibits [2] - 904:8, 977:4 expect [1] - 905:18 expense [1] - 957:17 explain [2] - 915:3, 915:20 explained [1] - 906:22 explaining [1] - 925:12 extent [1] - 944:22 F facetted [1] - 986:25 facing [3] - 916:7, 917:20, 917:25 fact [18] - 928:2, 935:6, 940:24, 940:25, 941:2, 941:15, 941:17, 942:2, 942:5, 943:5, 944:2, 944:16, 944:17, 945:11, 952:3, 963:4, 976:13 facts [3] - 945:11, 961:10, 976:7 factual [5] - 961:1, 961:11, 961:19, 961:22, 962:9 failure [1] - 955:19 fair [4] - 906:7, 961:25, 963:3, 974:7 false [8] - 914:14, 914:25, 915:3, 957:10, 957:17, 983:7, 983:10, 983:13 falsifying [1] - 961:24 falsity [1] - 943:20 far [2] - 953:9, 953:11 faster [1] - 987:22 FBI [3] - 905:11, 950:14, 951:18 February [1] - 912:18 federal [2] - 914:14, 978:8 feelings [1] - 924:24 felt [2] - 906:23, 929:21 few [3] - 905:19, 906:9, 982:20 field [1] - 909:11 figure [2] - 970:7, 980:6 file [3] - 914:25, 955:19, 979:8 filing [1] - 957:10 filled [1] - 906:19 finally [6] - 937:5, 937:21, 971:22, 973:11, 977:15 financial [2] - 917:10, 960:2 Financial [1] - 903:2 fine [3] - 915:17, 916:1, 916:5 finished [1] - 965:6 firm [6] - 909:15, 909:19, 909:22, 909:25, 910:11, 910:12 first [18] - 905:20, 908:19, 909:14, 911:8, 913:20, 937:18, 944:19, 958:15, 966:18, 966:21, 970:2, 971:25, 973:6, 976:1, 976:6, 981:23, 982:15, 986:10 fit [1] - 987:24 five [3] - 915:17, 915:25, 916:4 FL [4] - 902:22, 903:4, 903:7, 903:11 focused [1] - 957:3 follow [2] - 938:3, 982:6 following [5] - 909:18, 935:1, 949:18, 950:3, 976:13 follows [3] - 908:20, 969:22, 976:23 FOR [2] - 902:1, 902:15 foregoing [1] - 989:5 foreign [10] - 911:4, 914:24, 915:1, 954:3, 955:1, 957:19, 957:22, 958:1, 958:15 form [3] - 982:24, 983:5, 983:11 formal [2] - 920:7, 920:9 forms [1] - 959:12 Fort [2] - 902:22, 903:7 forthcoming [2] - 931:1, 933:16 forward [1] - 950:20 foundation [2] - 922:13, 950:1 foundational [1] - 926:16 Fourth [1] - 902:16 Frank [3] - 906:23, 973:16, 974:8 frequent [1] - 978:11 frequently [1] - 937:8 Friday [1] - 977:17 front [6] - 906:6, 915:18, 953:7, 953:20, 953:21, 970:24 Ft [2] - 903:4, 903:11 fulfil [1] - 917:18 fulfilled [1] - 918:10 full [1] - 989:6 fully [3] - 917:1, 954:9, 954:10 G G-A-T-E-S [1] - 909:2 gained [2] - 937:24, 965:22 game [1] - 961:25 Games [1] - 909:21 gates [2] - 907:21, 907:22 GATES [1] - 908:18 Gates [18] - 904:3, 908:16, 909:1, 909:3, 913:10, 922:25, 923:4, 923:7, 925:13, 926:24, 927:20, 941:10, 946:2, 946:11, 947:17, 949:6, 960:9, 967:18 995 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 96 of 105 general [2] - 926:18, 978:21 George [1] - 909:9 GIBBONS [1] - 903:2 gift [1] - 927:12 given [3] - 921:10, 968:4, 978:3 glad [1] - 908:2 Godfather [4] - 905:22, 973:17, 973:18, 973:22 government [60] - 906:25, 908:14, 912:20, 912:23, 913:6, 913:18, 914:15, 915:8, 915:10, 916:9, 916:13, 916:19, 916:22, 916:23, 917:4, 917:12, 917:19, 918:1, 918:6, 918:11, 918:22, 919:3, 919:5, 919:8, 929:8, 929:17, 930:24, 943:23, 945:7, 945:9, 947:20, 947:22, 948:2, 948:16, 948:21, 949:5, 950:18, 956:11, 956:16, 957:4, 964:8, 965:17, 969:1, 969:10, 969:12, 972:18, 974:12, 975:13, 975:15, 977:3, 977:15, 979:7, 979:9, 979:11, 979:24, 980:12, 981:12, 983:9, 983:15 Government [6] - 904:8, 904:9, 904:9, 904:10, 904:10, 985:6 Government's [17] - 970:17, 970:22, 971:10, 972:14, 972:16, 973:12, 973:13, 974:3, 974:7, 976:1, 976:11, 976:19, 982:10, 985:2, 985:4, 986:13 government's [3] - 905:17, 925:5, 981:1 graduation [1] - 909:11 grand [3] - 950:6, 977:16, 978:8 Grant [2] - 903:5, 905:14 gray [1] - 982:20 great [1] - 936:18 greater [1] - 917:25 grounds [4] - 906:12, 906:13, 922:7, 924:21 [email protected] [1] - 903:8 Gtech [1] - 909:17 Guccifer [7] - 970:10, 970:12, 971:14, 972:3, 974:24, 975:2, 975:6 guess [3] - 908:6, 923:3, 942:24 guidance [3] - 928:13, 929:1, 929:3 guidelines [1] - 918:9 guilty [6] - 912:17, 912:19, 915:2, 915:18, 916:2, 983:1 H hack [2] - 931:5, 970:13 hacked [4] - 926:3, 929:7, 929:16, 930:24 hacking [2] - 970:8, 971:5 Haley [2] - 981:6, 987:19 half [2] - 953:23, 953:24 hand [4] - 908:12, 949:13, 951:11, 981:6 handed [3] - 950:18, 950:21, 973:11 handing [1] - 986:11 handy [1] - 986:6 happiness [2] - 927:10, 935:7 happy [2] - 922:23, 928:1 hard [1] - 987:24 harmonized [2] - 978:8, 978:10 head [5] - 908:11, 919:19, 968:11, 984:4 hear [11] - 936:11, 939:9, 939:10, 939:11, 943:8, 952:14, 954:5, 962:10, 979:1, 984:6 heard [11] - 906:9, 927:14, 927:20, 927:21, 938:19, 946:5, 952:18, 956:2, 966:22, 980:15, 980:17 hearing [1] - 976:3 hearsay [21] - 923:14, 924:12, 924:13, 940:12, 940:17, 941:6, 941:10, 941:25, 942:7, 942:8, 943:2, 944:4, 944:5, 944:6, 944:9, 944:14, 944:17, 944:18, 944:19 heart [1] - 926:13 HELD [1] - 902:9 held [4] - 909:13, 911:19, 915:6, 934:5 helpful [2] - 935:11, 978:19 helping [2] - 914:25, 961:15 hereby [2] - 976:22, 989:4 highlighted [3] - 971:2, 971:10, 973:6 Hillary [1] - 927:1 himself [7] - 961:2, 961:6, 961:7, 961:9, 961:25, 962:6, 963:20 history [1] - 909:24 Hollywood [1] - 935:13 honest [1] - 927:14 honestly [1] - 955:4 Honor [47] - 905:1, 905:7, 907:17, 907:23, 908:17, 922:6, 922:23, 925:4, 925:21, 926:21, 935:21, 939:20, 940:2, 940:12, 940:13, 944:21, 944:25, 945:6, 945:15, 945:21, 946:9, 947:13, 949:10, 950:17, 956:6, 957:7, 963:17, 967:7, 967:13, 967:15, 968:9, 968:17, 969:3, 969:6, 969:12, 969:14, 974:15, 975:8, 975:10, 975:24, 976:11, 977:3, 977:15, 977:20, 979:22, 984:23, 985:3 Honor's [1] - 944:13 HONORABLE [1] - 902:9 hope [1] - 908:5 hour [1] - 928:25 hours [1] - 980:11 House [6] - 925:6, 926:1, 970:11, 972:7, 976:15, 984:13 HPSCI [3] - 970:23, 972:17, 981:16 huge [1] - 941:4 hum [1] - 933:11 hundreds [1] - 922:21 hung [2] - 943:4, 943:16 hurt [1] - 935:14 husher [1] - 980:4 I Ian [1] - 902:13 ID [1] - 939:7 idea [3] - 916:25, 934:8, 954:16 identification [3] - 972:14, 973:12, 976:20 identified [1] - 977:12 identifies [1] - 977:10 identify [2] - 905:5, 907:5 ignore [1] - 987:9 II [4] - 905:22, 973:17, 973:18, 973:23 III [3] - 908:18, 909:1, 913:11 illegal [1] - 925:23 immediately [4] - 935:1, 939:16, 940:4, 941:22 impact [2] - 915:15, 917:24 impeach [6] - 949:24, 949:25, 950:13, 956:7, 978:7 impeaching [1] - 951:6 impeachment [1] - 949:19 important [4] - 925:8, 926:1, 930:10, 956:1 impose [1] - 915:16 imprisonment [3] - 915:17, 915:25, 916:4 IN [1] - 902:1 in-court [1] - 977:23 inaccurate [1] - 954:7 inadmissible [1] - 943:4 include [1] - 972:8 including [4] - 906:5, 923:3, 938:11, 962:17 income [4] - 954:9, 954:10, 955:2, 964:1 inconsistent [3] - 977:23, 978:4, 978:15 incorporation [1] - 959:16 incorrect [1] - 950:11 independently [1] - 974:24 INDEX [1] - 904:1 indicate [1] - 933:20 indicated [16] - 921:9, 921:14, 932:13, 933:16, 936:14, 936:20, 996 Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 643-3 Filed 12/10/19 Page 97 of 105 937:3, 937:5, 938:10, 938:14, 946:13, 946:21, 947:7, 952:4, 952:10, 964:22 indication [2] - 927:16, 928:1 indicted [1] - 912:8 indictment [9] - 916:24, 917:5, 917:7, 917:8, 917:10, 983:1, 983:2, 983:17 individual [2] - 968:3, 976:23 inference [6] - 941:3, 941:23, 942:12, 942:20, 942:23, 943:13 influence [2] - 926:9, 973:8 informal [1] - 920:10 information [84] - 921:9, 921:11, 921:13, 921:15, 921:16, 921:20, 921:21, 921:25, 922:1, 925:16, 926:3, 926:11, 926:25, 927:11, 927:14, 927:18, 927:21, 927:22, 928:2, 928:3, 929:19, 929:20, 930:25, 931:4, 931:25, 932:12, 932:22, 932:24, 933:1, 933:16, 933:19, 933:20, 933:23, 933:25, 934:1, 934:8, 934:12, 935:6, 935:7, 935:10, 935:14, 935:15, 936:15, 936:20, 936:22, 936:25, 937:3, 937:4, 937:7, 937:16, 937:19, 938:4, 938:7, 938:15, 938:18, 940:16, 940:19, 946:13, 946:21, 946:24, 947:2, 947:6, 947:7, 947:9, 947:10, 947:12, 948:17, 959:14, 964:23, 965:1, 966:17, 966:20, 966:24, 967:3, 967:4, 967:21, 967:22, 968:2, 968:4, 968:6, 968:8, 971:18 Insight [1] - 909:19 instance [1] - 966:21 institution [1] - 960:2 instruct [1] - 938:1 instructed [1] - 944:1 instruction [5] - 979:8, 982:12, 982:14, 983:18, 983:24 instructions [2] - 980:17, 982:22 intelligence [5] - 971:15, 971:20, 972:3, 972:4, 973:9 Intelligence [5] - 925:6, 970:11, 971:15, 972:7, 976:16 intend [2] - 945:10, 980:25 intended [2] - 938:6, 938:9 intending [2] - 905:19, 979:3 intent [1] - 984:14 intention [1] - 964:18 interact [3] - 910:6, 919:21, 919:24 interest [1] - 926:2 interested [3] - 924:17, 925:9 interference [1] - 987:3 intermediaries [1] - 987:1 intermediary [1] - 973:9 international [1] - 911:2 interrogatories [1] - 983:23 interviews [5] - 915:6, 948:1, 948:3, 948:5, 948:22 introduce [8] - 941:1, 941:2, 944:17, 977:2, 978:20, 979:3, 980:13, 988:4 introduced [2] - 942:1, 980:16 introducing [1] - 942:4 investigating [3] - 926:2, 926:3, 987:3 investigation [2] - 916:14, 926:2 involved [5] - 911:5, 911:8, 934:11, 957:11, 961:11 involving [1] - 961:13 issue [6] - 942:19, 958:5, 960:14, 963:7, 982:24, 983:22 issues [5] - 908:8, 944:8, 944:9, 948:6, 982:18 itself [1] - 907:2 J JACKSON [1] - 902:9 Jackson [1] - 918:17 JANICE [1] - 989:4 Janice [2] - 903:14, 989:12 JaniceDickmanDCD@gmail. com [1] - 903:17 January [3] - 910:18, 910:19, 951:15 Jared [4] - 932:1, 932:2, 932:3 Jason [2] - 902:6, 934:14 Jed [2] - 902:14, 905:9 job [4] - 909:14, 910:19, 910:22, 912:3 jobs [1] - 909:13 John [2] - 902:14, 946:15 joined [1] - 920:25 joining [2] - 912:5, 920:4 Jon [1] - 902:15 Jonathan [2] - 902:13, 905:8 [email protected] [1] - 902:18 Jr [1] - 902:6 Judge [3] - 905:13, 918:17, 981:3 judge [5] - 915:18, 918:8, 918:15, 918:16 JUDGE [2] - 902:9, 902:10 judicial [1] - 986:20 Julian [7] - 921:6, 921:24, 922:5, 925:12, 926:24, 927:9, 965:21 July [20] - 911:19, 933:4, 933:5, 933:10, 933:12, 933:14, 934:4, 934:5, 934:7, 934:21, 934:23, 935:1, 937:16, 937:18, 938:18, 938:25, 939:1, 939:3, 966:18, 970:5 June [16] - 911:24, 921:23, 921:25, 926:25, 927:24, 928:9, 928:17, 928:18, 929:5, 929:6, 930:1, 930:3, 931:17, 932:16, 932:19 jurisdiction [1] - 917:8 jurors [6] - 908:1, 908:3, 968:24, 969:9, 980:23, 982:16 JURY [2] - 902:4, 902:8 jury [32] - 907:8, 907:14, 907:24, 925:13, 944:1, 945:16, 950:7, 968:20, 969:8, 970:16, 970:21, 973:1, 975:19, 975:22, 976:4, 976:18, 977:6, 977:16, 978:8, 979:8, 979:11, 981:18, 982:5, 982:7, 982:12, 982:13, 982:22, 983:3, 983:4, 987:25, 988:3 K Keefe [1] - 905:11 keep [2] - 960:15, 962:1 Kelly [1] - 909:15 key [1] - 973:7 kind [6] - 910:25, 927:13, 929:18, 953:3, 963:2, 983:10 knowledge [5] - 922:14, 922:15, 922:16, 965:21, 965:22 KRAVIS [34] - 905:7, 905:17, 906:4, 907:16, 907:22, 969:14, 969:24, 973:1, 973:4, 974:15, 975:10, 975:15, 975:20, 975:24, 976:1, 976:11, 976:22, 977:3, 977:15, 977:20, 978:1, 978:13, 978:23, 979:22, 979:24, 984:23, 985:3, 985:10, 985:15, 985:18, 985:21, 986:2, 986:7, 986:9 Kravis [2] - 902:13, 905:8 kravis...............969 [1] - 904:6 Kushner [6] - 923:8, 932:3, 932:7, 932:9, 932:10, 932:14 Kushner's [2] - 932:4, 932:11 L laboring [1] - 983:15 lack [1] - 922:13 LaGuardia [1] - 952:24 large [1] - 933:6 largely [3] - 909:12, 911:2, 982:19 Las [2] - 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905:18 limine [1] - 905:23 line [2] - 956:18 line-by-line [1] - 956:18 list [2] - 917:25, 985:10 listed [1] - 914:3 listen [2] - 980:4, 982:7 lists [2] - 966:6, 966:11 litany [1] - 962:17 live [2] - 909:5, 909:6 lived [1] - 917:2 loan [7] - 959:15, 960:9, 960:15, 962:6, 962:23, 962:25, 963:20 loans [13] - 959:9, 959:19, 959:20, 959:23, 959:25, 960:1, 960:11, 960:16, 960:19, 960:20, 961:2, 961:5, 961:17 location [1] - 976:3 logistical [2] - 919:15, 980:2 look [4] - 907:11, 907:18, 950:9, 982:23 looks [1] - 950:12 lunch [5] - 979:12, 980:6, 980:21, 987:24, 988:2 lying [4] - 915:10, 925:5, 925:13, 962:17 M ma'am [1] - 958:6 mail [19] - 902:18, 902:18, 902:19, 902:23, 903:5, 903:8, 903:12, 903:17, 928:6, 928:8, 928:9, 928:11, 928:14, 928:15, 928:16, 931:10, 931:12, 931:14, 966:2 main [1] - 920:20 majority [1] - 984:20 malign [1] - 973:8 man [2] - 944:14, 958:19 Manafort [60] - 909:15, 909:23, 909:25, 910:2, 910:7, 910:9, 910:10, 910:13, 910:15, 910:17, 910:20, 910:24, 910:25, 911:3, 911:15, 911:20, 912:6, 914:19, 914:25, 917:11, 920:4, 920:22, 923:4, 923:6, 924:6, 932:21, 932:23, 933:18, 934:14, 935:17, 935:25, 936:7, 936:8, 936:13, 936:17, 936:18, 936:21, 937:10, 937:12, 937:14, 938:1, 938:6, 938:9, 938:14, 949:7, 954:25, 957:12, 958:19, 959:1, 959:10, 959:13, 959:17, 959:21, 960:12, 960:21, 961:13, 962:2, 962:3, 966:22 manafort [3] - 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930:9, 931:21, 966:2 texts [2] - 919:25, 966:1 THE [154] - 902:1, 902:1, 902:9, 902:15, 905:1, 905:12, 905:16, 906:2, 906:11, 907:4, 907:18, 907:24, 908:2, 921:12, 921:14, 922:7, 922:10, 922:13, 922:18, 923:3, 923:10, 923:25, 924:14, 924:23, 925:3, 925:19, 925:23, 925:25, 935:22, 939:21, 940:6, 940:10, 940:21, 941:14, 942:21, 942:23, 943:11, 944:14, 944:23, 945:1, 945:4, 945:13, 945:16, 945:22, 945:24, 946:7, 947:14, 948:9, 948:14, 949:11, 949:13, 949:15, 949:23, 950:11, 950:22, 951:9, 951:11, 954:13, 954:14, 955:12, 955:25, 956:5, 956:13, 956:22, 957:6, 957:13, 957:15, 958:4, 958:6, 958:7, 958:8, 958:9, 959:19, 959:21, 960:5, 960:8, 960:13, 960:23, 961:1, 961:6, 961:9, 961:17, 962:11, 962:21, 963:10, 963:19, 964:15, 967:9, 967:12, 967:14, 968:10, 968:12, 968:14, 968:15, 968:18, 968:25, 969:4, 969:6, 969:8, 969:10, 969:16, 969:19, 969:20, 972:20, 972:22, 972:25, 973:3, 974:13, 974:18, 975:9, 975:11, 975:18, 975:23, 975:25, 976:5, 976:21, 977:1, 977:7, 977:18, 977:22, 978:5, 978:11, 978:17, 979:1, 979:5, 979:10, 979:17, 979:21, 979:25, 980:24, 981:5, 981:9, 981:19, 982:2, 982:5, 982:8, 982:11, 984:5, 984:18, 984:20, 984:24, 985:9, 985:14, 985:17, 985:20, 985:24, 986:3, 986:5, 986:8, 986:17, 986:23, 987:13, 987:17, 987:20 then-candidate [6] - 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967:11 Zelinsky [2] - 902:15, 905:9 Zelinsky.............908 [1] - 904:3 Zelinsky...........967 [1] - 904:4 1005