Criminal trial testimony: Ava Avalos

A. Avalos 656 MR. GLICK: The United States calls Ava Avalos. AVA AVALOS, Government witness, duly sworn. THE CLERK Please state your name for the record and spell your last name THE WITNESS Ava Avalos a, A a DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR GLICK Good Ms Avalos Between 1982 and 1985 you were a member of the Rajneesh commune? Yes, I was Before we get lnto your experlences at the commune, would you please tell the ladles and gentlemen a about yourself, where you were born and your background? I was brown and ralsed ln San Dlego lower class Mexlcan Amerlcan household We were a pretty famlly We suffered of the same typical that, you know, parents were both of abuslve alcoholics and but they loved me and slster very much and they sent us to Cathollc school for 12 years And when I was 15 and a half I read a book A. Avalos 657 called Be Here Now Byron Doss I decided to become a vegetarian and start yoga. And I had some friends that were dolng yoga It happened they were dolng lt at a place called the Utsava Medltatlon Center lh Laguna Beach, Callfornra I know about Bhagwan or Rajneesh before I got there And I went and unbeknownst to my parents and started doing yoga and found out about Bhagwan, began to read some of books Now, how old were you when you came ln contact the of Bhagwan Shree Ra]neesh? I was 15 And what role, If any, had rellglon played ln your llfe up to that po1nt? Well, I had gone to Cathollc school slnce second grade We went to church every Sunday I was curious about from the Very So when I actually I did yoga for about months before I asked who this man was on the wall There were lots of plctures on the wall I of had ant; fear After about months, I flnally ask And I read a book I felt like Bhagwan was able to answer questlons about that I had never gotten 1U the Catholic church It was Very for me there come a time when you declded to take a journey to see hlm, to do about your curloslty Q. I A. . . . A. Avalos 658 Yeah I school and I went to Utsava Medltatlon Center I received a scholarship to go to Berkeley I went to Berkeley for a year My best frlend at the tlme, her name was Ma Prem Sono She had become sannyasln already Through the mall you had you could wrlte and ask to be a of Bhagwan, meant you wore orange clothes and had the Bhagwan plcture around your neck, or asked to have your name changed She had done that already and really wanted to go to Indla After I about a year, almost a year and a half at Berkeley, I declded to take a year and a half leave from school and go to Indla and see Bhagwan How old were you when you declded to leave the Unlted It was 1979 I was 19 you travel? Yeah My frlend and I And what happened when you got to Indla? Well, I never traveled out of Callfornla before went to Indla It was a real shock to me If you have ever been to Indla, lt llke another planet from the Unlted States It was very we went to Nepal for month Nepal lS an beautlful country Then we rode the traln and went to Indla The ashram was kind States and travel to see the Bhagwan yourselfA. Avalos 659 paradlse, I guess, 1n some way Everyone wore these long, flowlng orange robes and long halr and medltatlon that went on all day and people sang and danced It was llke a paradlse to me I had never seen a group of people l1v1ng like this before It seemed llke everybody loved each other And everybody lntentlon was to become, you know, better people And so lt was a really wonderful place And what you do when you got to the ashram ln Ind1a? Well, we purchased my and I sannyasln, to become a They sald that was okay I went and met Bhagwan personally The night when we were by was to take so you would come lH a small group of people would come to and he would put the (necklace) around your neck and touch your head and talk to you about your name So he that That was the tlme I met And what was the name that Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh gave you' He change my name He left lt Ava I was Ma Ava What does Ma represent, or If there lS an equ1valentthe meditation. And I asked right away to become A. Avalos 660 Women were called maybe that had to llke that Now, you remaln lH tlme for a perlod of t1me? I stayed at the ashram What d1d you do durlng and men were called Swaml, do mother, or India at the ashram at that about three months that perlod of time from the end of 1979 through the three months of 1980? I was really a I I did a number of therapy groups The ldea I guess, was to your egowere to transcend the you know, our And so I did the medltatlon and What lt mean to you to become a of Bhagwan? I meant that I was taking I was taklng a step to completely devote my llfe to my awaklng, and that I was Bhagwan as my master, therefore saylng that that he knew what I needed and would help me to achleve those goals, even though maybe I wasn totally clear the tlme what those were We would say lt was And I don we really questlon what that was It was all of us were do. A. Avalos 661 What you conslder Bhagwan to be An master I guess we felt llke he was Jesus In some way, try to make lt clear he was all knowlng, had achleved the hlghest human potentlal that a person could achleve He was clalrvoyant, all Understood there was to understand about llfe and belng on the planet, I guess there come a time when you left the ashram? I left about three months after I was there was ln Indra and Nepal about four months After four months being In the presence of your master, what d1d lt mean to leave the ashram? could stay I sold that I could sell to stay longer and came back when I absolutely have any more money What happened then when you returned to the Unlted States sometlme 1D the of 1980? Well, at that polnt I was then wearlng red clothes and the (necklaceback to school So I declded to return to Berkeley another semester there at school Durlng the tlme you were at Berkeley, were there any outerwear or external manlfestatlons of Bhagwan? I continued to wear red clothes and my (necklacewas really disappointed. I stayed as long A. Avalos 662 Whlle you attended school' Yes there come a time when you else? Yeah, that next summer As soon as I came back from Indla, there were a number of medltatlon centers ln San and the Bay Area And I started to attend them, Rajneesh Medltatlon Center ln San called PARR, PAR And from that I was contacted from a Rajneesh Medltatlon Center ln Laguna Beach that had just opened And they heard that I had secretarlal skills had worked slnce I was about 14 ln dlfferent offlces and had worked whlle I was ln school And somebody called me from Laguna Beach and sald, We understand you are a secretary We have medltatlon center We are looklng for an offlce manager Would you like to come to Laguna Beach? And we fly you down and see lf you llke lt here I thought, okay, at that polnt my goal was to try and earn as each money as I could and try and go back and be Bhagwan I went to Laguna Beach And as lt turned out, there was a church pastor that had become a sannyasln and asked his whole congregatlon to do that It was a large property There were resldentlal propertles was A. Avalos 663 beautlful I thought I should take job I moved Laguna Beach At Laguna Beach were there other sannyas1ns? Yes It was called Rajneesh a a And what you do your personal posltlons and the Items that you had whlle you were lH Berkeley when you moved down to Laguna Beach' Well, I have that much stuff furniture I just turned lt over, all the ashram You turned your possesslons over' How long you remaln ln Laguna Beach? I was ln Laguna Beach for about a year and a half, I What type of you do ln Laguna Beach as a sannyas1n? In the I was the manager I pretty much all of the that had to happen 1D the church, or the center at that polnt And at a certaln polnt Bhagwan ended up comlng to America And all of the sannyaslns that were ln Indla descended of on all of the ashrams ln the United States They were comlng hack to the Unlted States There was another big Rajneesh medltatlon . . What I might have, yesA. Avalos 664 center ln the desert It was called Geetan just east of here I can remember exactly where lt was Those are the two, Geetan was one of the Rajneesh meditation centers ln the United States on the West Coast, because was pretty blg, to become of these two centers became of slster centers A lot of the1r from Indla that were leavlng came to the centers to start to do medltatlons and therapy groups there So they suddenly descended upon all of the people that were all right there Now, was ln approxlmately the end of August of 1981 when Bhagwan moved to Oregon, 15 that correct' And others of followers from Indla go with to Oregon' Some and some At the very there were very few sannyaslns to be the Bhagwan So people that llved for years and years ln Indla weren belng to go to the ranch They were really What lt mean to you to be ln the Unlted States and at the locatlon 1U Laguna Beach, and the Bhaqwan, your master, up ln Oregon? Well, we were also that Bhagwan had come to America of llke beyond our wlldest dreams that it A. Yes, that is right. Q. . ,t A. A. Avalos 665 Bhagwan would come to Amerlca And the fact lH a way that I was at the place at the tlme ln some ways, I was medltatlng and the people from Indla came and took the center over And a lot of the people that had been there before they asked to leave, but they actually me to stay on So I felt of ln some way to be there a lot of the that had been Bhagwan for many years All of us wanted to go be with at the ranch there come a tlme when you had the opportunlty to for the tlme the commune located ln Eastern Oregon' the people on the ranch, we had about four dlfferent celebratlons a year that sannyasrns would celebrate One of them was the Master Day celebration, that was the biggest one, ln July And that was the Master Day celebratlon that was golng to be celebrated lH Oregon, so they the resldents of the medltatlon centers to go Would that have been the first World Festlval lH July of l982? That lS What you do after you got to that fest1val at that Q. A. Yes. In I guess it was in June of 1982 they had up. A. . A. Avalos 666 We were dlfferent jobs I I worked lH a tent Rajneesh souvenlrs lH the very The resldents of went up and everyone that was already ln the center got a job to do to make the festlval happen For how long a perlod of time you then remaln at the commune ln Oregon" I really remalned at the commune well, I stayed there I was asked to come up for two weeks And then I was told I was gOlHg back down and care take the center Because all of the resldents from Saba were to go for the full month I went up for two weeks Some of them had to go back That right What lt mean after you flnally got to the commune and had to leave' It was really hard to leave Specially because lt had been a whlle slnce I had seen Bhagwan Actually whlle I was on the ranch I had been lHV1tEd a small meetlng A few people had been for a meetlng you got near Bhagwan you felt you felt llke lt was a honor Spell DarshanDid you leave the commune and return to the SabaA. Avalos 667 And what was the darshan that you had Bhagwan? Well, lt meant agaln, we got to ln front of hlm, he touched our head I guess he gave us some sort blessing and asked us, maybe five or of us lf we had any affectlon for At time he wasn speaklng publ1cly, so lt was quite an honor to be there and have access to and ask him any questlons that we wanted And what you do when you returned to Saba after brlef perlod of tlme at the commune ln the of 19829 Well, at that polnt there was nobody really at the center, we were just caretaklng You know, taklng care of ourselves And I think maybe there were three, four of there at the tlme For how long a period of tlme that contlnue untll something else happened" Well I guess about the tlme when people are supposed to be comlng back the the person that ran the center, her name was Asema (ph) from Australla came back and she had been there for the day In the evenlng we were cooklng dlnner She looked at me and sald, I forgot to tell you you are suppose to be on a plane tomorrow to go l1ve at the ranch." I was ln complete shock. I thought, my God, I have been to llve at the ranch. The next A. Avalos 668 got on the plane and moved to Oregon And what you do when you got to Ra]neeshpuram? Well, there was a woman named Sheela who was had been lH charge of fund for the ranch She was sannyasln from Indla When all of the sannyaslns were relocated she was dolng a lot of fund because Saba and Geetan, the medltatlon center, have the potentlal to make a lot of money That was of her domaln When I got to Rajneeshpuram I went to see Sheela She told me to go and look for Ma Prem Geeta, she would tell me what to do Where you llve when you got to Ra]neesh? I llved ln a group of trallers called Des1derada I went to Geeta and she sald I was going to he assigned a really speclal job And Saba had worked at the legal team, I thought I was golng to he dolng legal She sald actually you are golng to be answerlng Bhagwan letters that have And there are only a few people that do You feel llke you are really and you know lS of a job You have to he speclal to be able to do And lS the job that we are golng to glve you What do you mean, you are the one that answers Bhagwan A. . . A. . Q. What did do you when you got to the ranch? A. Q. A. Avalos 669 A. Bhagwan received letters from around the world from his disciples asking for spiritual advice. Instead of Bhagwan answering the letters personally the typists in the typing pool would answer them We would read them and this had been going on for a long time There were books that had quotes about love or relationships and death or whatever, any number of subjects So we would read the person letter and write a few lines of advice and then pick a Bhagwan quote and then Sheela would sign for Bhagwan When you said you would go to a book with quotes, whose quotes where they? They were Bhagwan quotes You would place them in a letter' Who is Sheela' Sheela is Bhagwan personal secretary She was the she ran everything on the ashram in it I mean the commune Did there come a time when you first got there when you had meet Sheela, or was your only association the signing of those letters' I think I may have meet Sheela during the first really briefly the first time I went to the ranch when she had come into one of the tents where we sold the souvenirs A. . Q. . A. Yes. Q. . A. . A. A. Avalos 670 She said, 15 Ava, she works ashram That lS the tlme I had seen Sheela You mentloned Vldya? Yes Who was that? Vldya was the president of the commune this corporate structure ln order to the commune was the for profit corporatlon that employed workers, sannyaslns and there was the Rajneesh Foundation Internatlonal, the nonproflt corporatlon Sheela headed, we called rellglous corporatlon and was second to Bhagwan Vldya was the presldent of Rajneesh Internatlonal commune, which was for proflt corporatlon And you come to know her by the name of V1dya? Yes And who was Sav1ta? Savlta was the person that ran all of the flnanclal matters Do you see that woman ln the courtroom day? She 15 here MR WEATHERHEAD Stlpulated (By Mr Glick) there come a tlme when you met Anand Suour Rajneesh Foundation International, the nonprofit . A. Avalos 671 Who was Su? Su ran at that time ran the heavy equlpment department on the ranch Do you see her lH the courtroom' She 15 here MS SCISSORS Strpulated Hagan, Your Honor THE COURT Okay (By Mr For how long a perlod of tlme you work lh the capaclty of answerlnq Bhagwan mall? For about months I worked there Durlng that perlod of tlme you have any contacts Sheela' Any contacts Sav1ta? V1dya? Yes Vldya was Vldya was the was our supervlsor Geeta was my lmmedlate supervlsor, Vldya that was her supervlsor I would get to see Vldya, she was the person I felt was my supervisor Durlng that same perlod of tlme from approxlmately November of 82 until months of 1983, you have any contacts Su' As lt turned out lH Deslderada didn't, not personallyA. Avalos 672 my friend I had gone to Indra worked ln the heavy equlpment department and the people I llved w1th the Deslderada, my roommate, Swaml Prem Vljen, and my next door nelghborhood, a woman named Sambash (ph) and Radamba (ph) worked for Sheela And so they always would come home and talk about storles about Su and the heavy equlpment department And the time I met Su I was Sono and Monvera and Su was conducting a meetlng and we met brlefly Now, did there come a tlme when you got a new job the commune ln l983? One day we would have meetlng Every department boss or the supervlsors of every week they would have cal led coordlnators had a coordlnator was the that partlcular department And get togethers at Sheela house and have coordinators were they would exchange lnformatlon Sheela would tell them about what we were to do and what was comlng up And then those coordlnators would come back to thelr department and tell them that happened at the coordlnators meetlng So one day Vldya came and was to the whole department of the floor there and Sald we just purchased a dlsco ln Portland and we are looklng for . . . in Q. at A. Yeah. Q. A. A. Avalos 673 Volunteers to go and work ln Portland And the way lt work out you will go to Portland for two weeks and come back to the ranch for two weeks And I thought, boy, lS what I want to do, you know, 1U a Rajneesh dlsco sounded really great to me So that evenlng I went to Jesus Grove, 15 where Sheela and Vldya and Savlta llved A lot of the main ranch coordlnators llved there ln the traller compound called Jesus Grove So I went there for the tlme and asked to see Vldya and told her I would really llke to go to Portland and work lH the dlsco And What happen' A couple of days later she came to the pool and announced to everyone I was golng to be going over to go to Portland, I was really exclted about And there come a tlme then when you went to Portland to work ln lt Yeah for the ladles and gentlemen of the jury and the Court what you d1d? Well, lH the I was I was supposed to be a cocktall waltress As lt turned out, for a number of dlfferent reasons, they needed me to cook ln the So I started to cook And after a tlme they asked me lf wanted to be a bartender I started to be a bartender A. Avalos 674 the dlsco In your capaclty as the bartender, you have any contact Sheela? Actually that lS really the tlme I got to meet Sheela, or really any of the top branch at that tlme There were a lot of legal were and they needed to come lnto Portland qulte a to go to dlfferent legal proceedings And Sheela would come through the dlsco And one tlme because I was the bartender she ordered a Margarita I made a Margarlta She came down and sald that lS the best Margarita I ever had Whenever I come to Portland you are to make my come to Portland no matter where I was they would me and say you have to go make Sheela a Margarlta there come a tlme durlng perlod when you were as the bartender at the dlsco where you had personal contacts Savlta? What happened, whlle I was I would sometlmes read role (ph) cards That was I had done for a whlle, and someone told Sheela I read her role card One day when she came she sald, Why don you make a of margarltas and bring your cards and come and glve me a readlng I I also gave Savlta readlng I that lS the time I met Savlta A. Margarita. It was kind of a joke. So whenever she would A. up . I . a A. Avalos 675 Q. When did this take place, when you said you would come up' Well, the restaurant was two levels, a bar level and then the restaurant up on top She said come up from the bar Who was up there when you got up there? Probably Ma Patipada, Savlta, Sheela And yourself' And myself And was this to discuss the business of the commune or the business of the disco? No, just to have a reading Just you and the g1rls? Uh huh Sav1ta? That was the first time giving her a reading For how long a period of time did you continue to work in the disco before you had another job in relation to Ra]neeshpuram? I guess it was about five or six months, about five months probably And what was your next assignment? Where you told to go some where' Yeah, actually on one of my it never turned out And was that the first social occasion that you met A. Avalos 676 that we went two weeks to the ranch and two weeks to Portland It always turned out we spent a lot more tlme ln Portland than on the ranch, was actually okay me because I really enjoyed what I was dolng ln Portland because of thls, because a lot of the sannyaslns t, as lt turned out not enough people turned out to volunteer to go to Portland People were to Portland, they of resented that, they want be away from Bhagwan I think because, whoever that I ended up appearlng llke I was, I was very enthuslastlc And so one day when I was 1U Portland I got a message to go and see Ma Samadhl and they told me that I and also they bought the dlsco and then they purchased the Martha Hotel, lt was a pretty hotel At that tlme there were probably about 100 100 sannyaslns 1n Portland a hotel, the dlsco and restaurant and we also had a bakery So whoever ran the hotel, whoever was coordlnatlng the hotel of ran the whole show of all three places So I had a message that I was golng to be made the hotel manager, really shocked me Why did lt shock you' Well, I was just a bartender at that polnt, you know At when they asked me I thought they wanted me . I to was going to be made manager of the hotel because they Q. A. . to A. Avalos 677 cook ln the hotel They told me I was golng to be ln the hotel I thought they were golng to make me a cook again It turned out and they actually told me I was golng to be the manager I had to hear lt a couple tlmes to reallze that that was the job that I had gotten promoted to, to run the whole show 1U Portland And so 1U the summer of 1983 you were the manager of the hotel' That Where did you live' I llved ln the hotel That lS right there come a tlme at the end of July of 1983 something happened at the hotel' Yeah The hotel was bombed at the end of July And what, If happened as a result of that bomb1ng? What you do and what was the effect on whatever work you were do1ng? Well, because I was the manager I, you know, took care of that happened ln the hotel One night I went to bed and heard a loud exploslon and ran downstairs and saw a man lying 1U the lobby of half of face, you know, burned and blown up and half of his hand was blown off At the tlme I even know who was . Was that right here in PortlandA. Avalos 678 thought maybe lt was sannyaslns I couldn flgure out what happened I ran upstalrs and found out the hotel had been bombed The upstalrs was, you know, of lH a shambles, so I had to evacuate the hotel Immedlately, as soon as the came and flre department came and they reallzed lt was a bomhln you know, enormous amount of pollce, and, you know, speclal police that deal came and medla was there and the hotel was ln a complete uproar And because I was the manager I had to coordlnate all of the sannyaslns out Maklng sure was okay or how people react and to how you handled that Sltu&tlOH? Well, I recelved a lot of pralse for the way I handled myself and handled the sltuatlon that evening from Vldya and Sheela And I was glven a I recelved a watch from Bhagwan and a message He told me he was very proud of me and I had done very well What lt mean to you to recelve a from Bhagwan? to do that had to do Bhagwan, any messages or you felt really honored Was that an unusual occurrence for sannyas1ns? Q, Q. What, if any, result was there with respect to your No. A. Avalos 679 Rather un1que? It was unlque then the perlod of tlme after the July 29, 1983 through the next several months, was there a reactlon on the commune to that and the level of securlty anywhere' Absolutely what happened After the bombing Sheela tightened securlty, especially ln Portland Llke we always had a securlty force on the ranch And we had a pollce force also fact, my best frlend Sono went to the pollce academy That was her job We had pollce offlcers and securlty force After the Sheela doubled the securlty force ln slze And there was a new level of paranola, helghtened paranola and fear that, you know, accompanled the hotel Are you or have you ever heard the term 24 Shortly after the bombing the pollce chlef, her name was Ma Deva Barkha came to me ln Portland whlle I was on rotatlon and sald Sheela asked me to glve you a message She wanted to go ln the room and stuff, kind of top secret And she sald Sheela had a meetlng on the ranch with 24 people that she feels are the strongest people on the ranch and are ready to protect Bhagwan with thelr llves lf they ll? A. Avalos 680 need And she showed me the She sald You have been put on the 11st And I was of shocked Just because at that polnt everyone on the 11st were the maln people that were the ranch And so I thought wow, you know, Sheela must think How old were you when occurred' I mean, summer, fall of 19839 Sorry' And was Savlta, the defendant Savlta, on the 11st of the 24 most lmportant people' Uh huh MR WEATHERHEAD Objectlon to the form of the questlon, Your Honor I don counsel properly rephrased back to the wltness what her earller testimony had been She never sald 24 most lmportant people She sald 24 strong people THE COURT I am going to allow the question Go ahead THE WITNESS Yes (By Mr What about defendant Su, was she on that l1stA. Avalos 681 Yes. Vidya was Vidya on the list? Yes Sheela? Yes Shantl Bhadra? Yes Anug1ten? Yes Yourself on the l1st? Yes And there were others, lS that correct' That LS right What lf any, you receive as a member of the 24? Barkha explalned to me we were golng to be tralned to use a variety of different weapons that we might need to defend ourselves and to defend Bhagwan, and that lncluded plstols, Uzls, rifles, And you recelve that of tra1n1ng? Yes, I Now, what hours the 24 work' How that function as a securlty force and where lt fuHCtlOH? Well, Barkha explalned we were golng to construct, which they dld, construct a guard tower behlnd Bhagwan A. Avalos 682 house And ln the guard tower there were a variety of different guns and you had to walk up a starrcase to get to the top and you could overlook Bhagwan house and the And they made up a schedule where we would work two hour rotatlons So when for lnstance when the schedule begln the tlme you would work you would go from the Then the next you go from 1 30 to 3 30 The next 2 30 to 4 30 As soon as the whole operation began we our sleep pattern started to become lnterrupted We would be up all hours of the night and follow through durlng the day Yes Did u? Yes Vldy Yes And the others on the 24? Inltlally everyone on the 24 worked a shift Now, there ever come a time when you saw Savlta or flrearms ln relation to the 24 or any of those other that you had' I don't remember seelng Savlta traln lH flrearms. Q. Did Savita work on that scheduleA. Avalos 683 do remember Savlta wearlng a pistol and a flrearm lf you weren tralned to do that you couldn What about Su, you see her flrearms or traln firearms' Yes What you see, what you personally observe' The same Su carrying firearms and Bhagwan tra1n1ng? Yes, I What about Shantl Bhadra? Yes Now, there come a tlme when the 24 got expanded to personnel' Yes Later on the 24 became 38 And what were the clrcumstances that led to that 24 to be expanded to the 38? Well, I the 24 that had been chosen were the members that really have the most on the ranch and worked a lot And they just couldn keep up thelr normal types of schedules what they were doing on the ranch and do th1s other, you know, schedule on top of lt. So more people had to be lncluded so the people could run the ranchHow about Vidya, did you ever see Vidya get firearms A. Avalos 684 D1d there come a tlme, then, you also worked durlng perlod where you were on that schedule, you contlnued to work at the dlsco 1B the hotel? Yes, I contlnued to work lH Portland And then shortly after the when I came back to the ranch I was to work 1U the personnel department We called lt It was working directly Vldya All And what type of work d1d you do Vldya at the Department? The was the place where members would lf they had any problem ln thelr ]ob or lf they wanted job change or lf they weren happy really that was golng on ln thelr llfe They would go and see Vldya or one of her ln the often people, you know, would ask to have thelr job changed Vldya would say yes or no It was a pretty powerful place to be What was your functlon and your role' I was just one of Vldya Baslcally because there were so many sannyaslns on the ranch Vldya couldn always see everybody She had me and a couple of other women that would sometimes see people And we would just wrlte down what their problems where and we would go back to Vldya and say lS what lS golng on this person Vldya would tell us to do or that A. Avalos 685 Occaslonally we would tell people ourselves there come a time when you told someone yourself happened? One tlme I was seelng a that had became unhappy at the ranch I sald, If you don llke lt here, you should leave I told Vldya that She was really unhappy me She told me I was on a power shouldn be on the anymore I was demoted back Vldya was your super1or? Yes What you do when you got back to the pool? I the same Answered Bhagwan letters agaln I was still on the Portland rotation, and golng back to Portland I was the disco manager ln Portland there come a time 1D 1984 when you got a different ass1gnment? When I got back to the ranch I was told I was golng to start to work at the medlcal center Rajneesh Medical Corporation It was really just a medlcal center a woman named Ma Anand Puja What type of work you do there? Oh, I was supposed to a woman named Ma Bohdl, who was Puja That meant A. Avalos 686 ln whatever happened at the medical center Was Puja your superior at the medical center' That lS How long a perlod of tlme you work at the medlcal center' About a year that contlnue through the World Festlval the summer of 1984? Yes Now, I want to dlrect your attentlon to the perlod of tlme between July of 1984 and November of 1984 What was the atmosphere WEATHERHEAD I ll object to the form Questlon about an atmosphere MR GLICK I ll lt THE COURT Sustalned (By Mr What was personally told to you about the matters occurr1ng? What you personally observe' Well, even before I got to the ranch was an lssue for all sannyaslns because many sannyaslns were not Amerlcan And belng an Amerlcan myself, I anyone that wasn Amerlcan felt llke, you know, we had a role to play ln that ln some way And from the very beginningimmigration matters? Q. . . . I A. Avalos 687 from when I f1rst got to the ranch there was an ongolng lnvestlgatlon of I 12 couples that had supposedly flled false papers They had marriages of convenlence and they were under lnvestlgatlon you have a marriage to a non American' Yes, I I was marrled to Swaml Prem Vljen, a man named Franc1s What natlonallty was he" He was English You were Amer1can? I was Amerlcan How would you your that I was ln a with for the enter tlme was at the Saba But the fact of the matter was that Bhagwan never supported marrlage It was that, lf we hadn been ln the Unlted States would never have happened We would just contlnue to have a We would have not got marrled Spell the name? Swami Vljen, 1 3 Now, durlng the period of tlme you know and observe defendant Savlta and her anyone? Sorry What tlme' Durlng perlod of tlme you were at these was actually in a relationship, actually in loveA. Avalos 688 through 1984, prlor to that, had you had an opportunity to observe Savlta and her Yes And what LS Savlta nat1onal1ty? Was she marrled to an Amerlcan sannyas1n? Yes What was name' I don know his legal name legal name at the ranch was Swaml Pragltam, actually A chiropractor at the medlcal center you observe the defendant Savlta Prag1tam? you observe Savlta somebody else' Yes Who was the person you saw her ln a w1th? Swaml Anuglten During same perlod of tlme, you have an opportunlty to observe and see Defendant Su' Yes And what was Defendant Su natlonallty' Was she marrled to an Amerlcan sannyas1nA. Avalos 689 If you know, what was sannyasln name' Okay I can see face now I totally blank these names I can remember He was from Los Angeles Would the name Anutosh refresh your reco11ect1on? Yes During that tlme that you observed her, did you observe her ln a Anutosh? D1d you observe her ln a someone else" Yes Swaml Sanlr, a 1 Durlng the same perlod of tlme, you have an opportunlty to observe Vldya ln her re1atIonsh1p? Yes And was she married to an Amer1can? Yes What was Vldya She was from South Afrlca you observe her lH a that Amerlcan to whom she was marr1ed? Do you remember his nameWho was that personNo. A. Avalos 690 I can remember his name Would the name Shanti' Shantl, I that was name Shanti a a During perlod of tlme that you observed Vldya was she ln a someone else other than person who whom she was supposedly married? Yes And who was that person' And contlnulng now, or your attentlon to the November 1984 tlme perlod By this tlme, how many couples on the commune would you say were ln these type same type of marrlages between foreign sannyaslns and Amerlcan sannyas1ns? Well, lt really hard to say, I don know how many I could say a percent but I couldn I wouldn have a clue I not sure how many people Approxlmately what percent, of your own estimate and the from the people that you say had these types of and marr1ages? 85 percent Now, there come a time when you began to get Involved lh certaln A. . Q. A. A. S-h- P-Bodhi, B-o-d-h-A. Avalos 691 Yes Now, would that tlme frame then be the November tlme frame through the spring of l985? Yes Now, before we address certaln one that you personally were lnvolved ln, want to dlrect your attention to the of 1985 and ask you whether or not there was any structure or hlerarohy your OplnlOn as you observed lt at the commune" Absolutely And what would the structure or the order of hlerarchy Bhagwan was the head He was up on top, was dlrectly beneath and beneath Sheela, Savlta And between Savlta and V1dya? Well, I would say, well, lt went Sheela, Vldya And the three of them together shared Bhagwan For lnstance, another country or not able to go some reason, Savlta would see the Vldya were both gone, then Savlta Sheela made a real and Sheela Vldya, Savlta, and the job of lf Sheela was away ln and see Bhagwan for Bhagwan If Sheela and went ln polnt of saylng that the three of them could never be broken up as a team Sheela was always afrald Bhagwan was golng to tell Savlta A. Avalos 692 and not Sheela, or Vldya and not her So Sheela was always real concerned that they always tell each other so that Bhaqwan couldn use one of them against the other She used to say that Now, lH tlme frame, 1985, there come a tlme when you began to work Yeah Later lH the of 1985 And what type of work did you do for Sav1ta? Savlta ran, again, all of the corporate Savlta ran all of the corporate structure What I mean by that ls, all of the flnanclal of all of the dlfferent corporatlons that exlsted, Savlta had the overall plcture And for how long a perlod of tlme you work dlrectly Sav1ta? Probably three months Was she your super1or? Yes Now, by the of 1985, you have any conversatlon Sheela any lnvestlgatlon that was golng on' Sheela was very concerned about ongoing Lnvestlgatlon of these 12 couples In add1t1on, there was a lot of concern about Bhagwan status Petltlons had been flled for to be allowed to stay those corporations. . Q. A. . A. Avalos 693 the Unlted States, and there was an ongolng concern about lnvestlgatlon INS fraud And there come a tlme lH connectlon that concern of the INS that you had an occaslon to observe any of the sesslons that were golng observe sectlons that were taklng place ln the legal department on the ranch Sheela was very concerned that members wouldn do well ln thelr lntervlews because so many people that were marrled were not really ln the people they were marrled to They had to get to know all of the personal hablts and all of the lnformatlon about the people they weren havrng a She would have dlfferent people that are golng to be lntervlewed come lnto the legal department and be as though they were golng to be lntervlewed you observe any of those sess1ons? Yes, I And what, lf Vldya say about any INS LSSUE7 Well, Vldya was MR WEATHERHEAD I am golng to object to the hearsay at polnt. We are pretty far afleld A. . A. A. Avalos 694 hearsay GLICK Dlrectly related to the INS THE COURT Overruled Go ahead THE WITNESS I can answer' THE COURT Yes Go ahead THE WITNESS I sorry What did Vldya say' (By Mr About any INS lnvestlgatlon? Just she was very concerned about lt And how close were you to Sheela at this polnt by the spring of 1985? the sense that there was a small group of women and wel there were a few men, too, that she had taken lnto her confldence and we had worked together really closely And this small group that Sheela had taken lnto her confldence by tlme, does that lnclude S&Vlt&7 Yes Does that lnclude Su" Yes V1dya? Yes Shantl Bhadra? Yes Anug1tenwas very close. Well, I was very close to Sheela A. Avalos 695 Yourself? Yes Yog1n1? Yes MR WEATHERHEAD Your Honor, lS really leadlng ln a degree I have to object to THE COURT I ll sustaln the objectlon Let her name off the names (By Mr Who were the names of the persons the small group besldes the ones we already dlscussed, the exceptlon of the last one where the objectlon was susta1ned? Were there others' Well, yeah, Padma Patlpada MS SCISSORS I don know Lf she was done THE COURT Were you THE WITNESS I a confused about all the people that I have said so far THE COURT Okay (By Mr I will move on to something else can come back to that What lt mean to you by the of 1985 to be on the commune with Bhagwan? In the spring of 1985, meanlng up until, meanlng K.D., Julian, Shanti BhadraA. Avalos 696 before June, I was as Bhagwan and the commune' I anyone I loved ln my llfe person to me In that way, most lmportant to me, And what would lt have sent off the ranch' devoted as I had ever been to have loved Bhagwan more than He was the most lmportant the commune, you knowllfe meant for you to be exlled or I couldn even have lmaglned anywhere other than Bhagwan at that polnt ln tlme And who had the power to exlle sannyaslns from the ranch' Sheela Anyone else? Well, often llke well, lf lt had been me at that particular point lH tlme, I Sheela would probably have spoken with a member, number of people that Inner of women and men MR WEATHERHEAD Objection Move to speculatlon MR GLICK 15 based on her own observatlon and conversations the group she was part of, Your Honor She can to what she knows based on her own observation MR WEATHERHEAD Evldence of hablt, character, not evldence of facts, that occurred A. Avalos 697 THE COURT Sustaln the objection (By Mr I want to dlrect your attentlon, then, to a moment Ln tlme ln the of 1985 there come a time when you were ln Portland, Oregon durlng the trlal of between the commune and Helen Byron Yes Who else was you ln Oregon at that t1me? Anuglten and YOglHl And there come a tlme when the was reached ln the Byron case? And were you lH Sheela presence after the Verd1ct? Yes, I was Can you for the ladles Sheela reactlon was to the Sheela was very upset about the gone Helen Byron had loaned Sheela ranch had started She wanted Sheela clalmed she had glven her the and gentlemen what as expressed to you' way the trlal had $500,000 when the the money back money, lt wasn loan So Helen Byron sued Sheela and the commune for the money back and won the case plus damages, I suppose the case lt was golng to cost the ranch about a and a half dollars Sheela was really upset the same tlme there was an electlon trlal, we had an electlon trlal vlolatlon trlal going on. We also had . . A. A. A. YesA. Avalos 698 a dlsfavorable And so Sheela was really feellng desperate and expressed to me and Yoglnl lH the hotel room she felt llke we were never gorng to get a falr trlal LH Oregon and that we would really need to take the law Into our own hands, and sald If we were golng to survlve, there was going to have to be almost a war to achleve our goals ln the community she sald anything about Savlta or Vldya at that tlme' What she sald WEATHERHEAD Objectlon Calls for hearsay, Your Honor GLICK THE COURT GLICK break, Your Honor? THE COURT mlnutes THE CLERK minutes (Recess) THE COURT State of mlnd, Your Honor Sustain the be a good tlme for the All Well be ln recess for 20 Court lS now ln recess for 20 Previous to the last recess I sustalned an objection I I was ln error that and the objectlon 1S overruledTHE COURT: I am going to sustain the objectionA. Avalos 699 You may proceed that questlon MR GLICK Thank you, Your Honor (By Mr Glick) Ms Avalos, dlfEURCtlUg your attention to the matter of the Helen Byron verdict and Sheela reactlon What, lf Sheela say to you about Savlta and V1dya? What she sald was that when we got back to the ranch we would have to support her oplnlon, support her oplnlons about needlng to take the law into our own hands, so that the rest of the people at the ranch would agree she mentlon Savlta and Vldya spec1f1cally? No, she your attentlon then to the tlme, there come a tlme when you got back to the ranch' Yes And you go about your buslness untll happened? Yeah It was, I believe, the next day or the followlng today I was I had a beeper on was beeped to come to Jesus Grove for a meetlng It was lH the afternoon sometlme And we all I walked lnto Sheela bedroom Sheela was saylng to everyone, If you have any morality, you need to leave lt at the door or don come to meetlng And what, lf anything, took place at th1s meet1nqA. Avalos 700 Well, there was a group of us ln a And Sheela S&ld that expressed agaln the same ldea that she had expressed back at the hotel, which lS that the tlme had come for us to take the law lnto our own hands order for us to survlve ln Oregon, we were golng to have start to people Now, who else, lf anyone, spoke at meetlng Well, Sheela referred to Su and Su took over the meeting and sald that, I am golng to run the meetlng so that everyone knows that Sheela us to do thls, that everyone 15 taklng on thelr own and no one lS us to do Can you for the ladles and gentlemen respect to Sheela, what was here tone, her demeanor as you observed lt when you were present at It was completely serlous She meant buslness, lS how she put lt And what was defendant Su tone when she made statements that she made' She was equally as serlous And were there other that you attended durlng lmmedlate perlod of tlme where was d1scussed? Yes, there were Was there any dlscusslon durlng the period of tlme at any of these about who would A. Avalos 701 Yes Describe to the ladles and gentlemen what was Sald and who said lt MR WEATHERHEAD Your Honor, I object to the question lnsofar as lt doesn attempt to place us ln a place and time we can deal THE COURT Let have a framework of tlme when these meetlng took place (By Mr your attentlon then to the Helen Byron approxlmately May 24th, and the return to the ranch and the lH a day or so Were there a series of meetings after meetlng durlng MR WEATHERHEAD Objectlon Leadlng, Your Honor THE COURT Could you put a framework on that' THE WITNESS If the Helen Byron trlal was at the end of May, lt was dlrectly after that The trial ended, Sheela came back to the ranch, lt was a day or two that the series of took place (By Mr Glick) for us what was sald, who would do the and MR WEATHERHEAD I for contlnulng to interrupt, Your Honor Once again we don have a framed ln terms of place, tlme, 15 ohvlously A. . Q. Q. . the period of time May 26 to May 28 of 1985? . . A. Avalos the whole case, Your Honor, as to MR GLICK Your Honor, serles of She provlded THE COURT We will get get to the toplc Proceed 702 who was where when she lS a a tlme to the people after THE WITNESS Sorry Repeat the questlon (By Mr Were there some conversatlons during the serles of about who would be dolng the k1ll1ng? Yes And tell the ladles and gentlemen who sald what at these In one of the serles of Sheela sald that she wanted to create and she wanted me, Yoglnl, Su, Shanti to be these flve people that our maln that took place an assasslnatlon team Bhadra and Anuglten task would be to ln assasslnatlon team And that we should always have she would always make sure that we had an open plane tlcket ln case we had to flee the country at any polnt And we would always he provided money and always have money on hand ln case this needed to happen And we should hand all of our on the ranch to someone else because we needed to do full tlme At the meetlng where the assasslnatlon team was discussed by Sheela, can you remember any words A. Avalos 703 she used? believe she used the expression hit team 1 t9 Yes You mentioned during this time Sheela also stated that money would be provided for the assassination team for expenses That is right Was defendant Savita present at that time' Yes, she was What, if anything, did Sheela or Savita say about the money' Sheela said Savita would provide the money And what else was discussed in addition to a hit team in terms of killing How it would be accomplished, for example? Well, there were a variety of different options different possibilities of Any discussion about f1rearms? Yes, there were What I was going to say is there were a number of different options how to hurt people or how to kill people were discussed, which included poisoning shooting guns to kill people And did Savita protestA. Avalos 704 What was sald at these the flrearms that would be needed to people? We started about the fact that ln order to accomplish some of the we would need to have guns I am confused You earller defendant Savlta and Su and yourself on the 24th had flrearms What would be the need for flrearms other than they ones that Su and Savlta would have had? We all understood we would need flrearms that could never he traced back to the ranch All of the flrearms on the ranch were registered and bought legally And we couldn have there ever be a trace between a gun that we flred ln an assasslnatlon attempt, I suppose, and a ranch gun And was there any dlscusslon about where to get or how to get flrearms that could not be traced to the commune that you were present at or Yes Who made the declslon and what was said, lf you can tell me' Well, agaln, the way the dlscusslon took, there were a group of people that lH the dlscusslon And we talked about the need to buy guns that were untraceable, that we would need to have false A. Avalos 705 guns, to bring them back And was Savlta present durlng these Yes, she was Was Su present durlng these Yes, she was Vldya present' Yes Shantl Bhadra? Yes Now, was there any about who would be killed' Yes, there was Yes, lt What was sald about Charles Turner' Well, Charles Turner was brought up as an enemy of the commune Somebody that was of lmportance, one of the maln enemles of the commune At that tlme you know who Charles Turner was' I knew the name and I knew he was lnvolve ln the INS lnvestlgatlon But I understand I may have heard he was the Attorney But I understand what lt meant to be a Attorney at that tlme Was there any at these serles of as who to who would be the person to purchase or obtaln the Did the name Charles Turner get raisedA. untraceable f1rearms? Avalos 706 Yeah It was declded that Shantl Bhadra and Rlkta should go buy flrearms And were you present Yes, I was Who dlscussed at the Well, Sheela declded and Shantl Bhadra Agaln but ultlmately Sheela was during that meetlng that partlcular meetlng, that lt should be done by Rlkta the were group the one that declded Someone may have sald, How about Rlkt&7 You know, there was a dlalog that happened the group Ultlmately lt was always Sheela that sald, Yeah, Shantl Bhadra and Rlkta should go At the meetlng where the team was selected by Sheela Yes Rlkta was on the team' Yes any anybody, say No, not Protest lH any way? Sorry' . Protest ln any way' of the persons, lncludlng yourself or Su or about that select1onA. Avalos 707 Were there others there who object to Well, that was a dlfferent meetlng I mean, I feel llke lt sounded llke all of these happened ln one meetlng It really happen all ln one meetlng But the meeting where Su asked us are we lH or out, that LS when dlfferent people objected to the ldea of people And who objected at that meet1ng? objected Padma objected, Patlpada objected do lt Bodhi objected, Jayanada objected Now I want to dlrect your attentlon to the per1od of tlme after these objectlons were lodged lH early June of 1985 What, lf anything, Sheela do respect to the protests? Immedlately that meetlng she asked Bodhi and Jayanada to step out of the room she at any tlme thereafter tell the Bhagwan about anyth1ng? Yeah Agaln, a few days of that first meetlng she went Sheela would go and see Bhaqwan every and every evenlng In the evenlng she would talk and dlscuss ranch business and ask what he would want done the commune And I guess because so many She said, can't kill anybody, but I support you A. Avalos 708 the people that were close to her 1D that group objected to the ldea of people, she went to and asked what he thought about the need to people And what did Bhagwan say' Well, Sheela came back from the meetlng She had taken a tape recorder so she could play us the message She came back to the meeting and sald and began to play the tape It was a hard to hear what he was saylng But Param Bohdl, who was one of the people that of her ln Jesus Grove, assisted her, went and lt We listened to some of lt and he some of lt And the of Bhagwan response, yes, lt was golng to be necessary And that actually And actually Hltler was a say that because Hltler had great vlslon the tapes get to to people to stay ln Oregon people wasn such a bad thing great man although he could not nobody would understand that And be known by any name? I guess well, slnce has happened we referred to that as the Hitler tape Now, at tlme what, 1f other than what you have already told us about these about Charles Turner occurred you do lH the early part of June, lf anythingA. Avalos 709 Well after the lH relation to Charles Turner" Yes After the serles of I recelved a message to come and see Sheela I went to see Sheela She sald, "You should go and Samadhl and do lt you know, Go and see Samadhl I want you to work Samadhl Go her and go to Portland her I went and I found Samadhl and found out that Samadhl had been on lnvestlgatxng the location of Charles Turner home for sometlme Let me stop you there for a moment How much tlme had lapsed between the tlme of these serles of that took place after the Helen Byron trlal and the perlod of time where Sheela came see S&m&dhl7 Well, a week, two weeks Yeah, 1t's for me ln my memory lt llke a perlod of tlme I couldn tell you exactly how many tlmes It seems elther a week or two weeks at po1nt? I would so Let's see lf we some dates as we go through Now, you you were present at meeting ln one of the series of where Rlkta and Shantl Bhadra were assigned to go get flrearms Rlkta wasn at the meetlng Shantl Bhadra was A. Avalos 710 Do you know lf they went and that after the meeting" Yes Were they successful? Yes, they were How do you know that' Because they told me And because I was shown the guns that they went and purchased And what were the clrcumstances that surrounded the tlme when they show you, when they tell you* How lt come about that they told you that they had gotten the weapons' Was there another meet1ng? What took place' Shantl Bhadra and Rlkta outslde, you know, just seelng them ln Jesus Grove or or outside I also spoke Anuglten about lt He was the one that actually showed me the guns Because when they brought any guns back, they had to he you know, they had to be or, you know, he able to arm correctly them So on one and Shanti Bhadra were golng out and the guns actually met them outslde as they were golng over to the range to shoot the guns I saw them when they came back Were these the same guns Rlkta and Shantl Bhadra had rece1vedNo, there wasn't another meeting. I was talking A. Avalos 711 your conversatlons Sheela and Samadhl What Samadhl tell you about the work she had done on Charles Turner' Samadhl showed me, Samadhl told me she had been trying to locate Charles Turner home and contact Charles Turner for sometlme And she actually had went to and had gone to offlce and get an lntervlew with there and had unsuccessful What she back from plcture from his college yearbook a plcture different clubs and llke that That there to try been there was a of lH was the only And she also sald that she had found out where he came lH and out of the courthouse here ln And that we were her to help her out where And there come a tlme Yes, I did And what happened at that Samadh1? The Samadhl out he llved lH an area called I was supposed to go he llved when you went w1th Samadh1? tlmE? Where you go somehow she had flgured Sherwood, and that we should go to the llbrary and try and out where the voter for Sherwood were located So we went to the library here downtown . . .. A. . . . picture we had of himA. Avalos 712 Samadhl was looklng through the books and found out where LH Sherwood you could go And we drove there to the voter lnformatlon don know exactly what lt was called It was where they have all of the voter card lnformatlon We went ln and told them that well were are dolng a survey on Reagan economlc plan Let me stop you there for a moment You earller the orange and (necklace) that you were a sannyasln for the ladles and gentlemen prlor to going Samadhl were you wearlng these clothes or dlfferent clothes? We changed our clothes We changed lnto normal Why? Well, because we d1dn want to be recognlzed as sannyaslns And what of automoblle you travel lnto either look at Mr Turner home or get to the post office' Well, there was a green Maverlck that we used Now, what happens when you get to the post off1ce? You were a conversatlon you had about Reagan's economlc plan We went 1D and sald we were dolng a survey to see Reagan out about how people felt about Reagan economic plan, and they let us ln It was just llke a wall Q. . A. . clothes. We called it "blue clothesA. Avalos 713 of cabinets with these cards in them. And we pretended like we were looking at all different cards, but of course the main card we went to get was Charles Turner We pulled out the card and it had a had his name, but a box for an address, not an address So we left there and Samadhi said maybe if to the post office we can see lf they will tell us We drove to the post office in that area and the woman at the post the mail place said, No, we don give out addresses for post boxes, you know She gave us a paper, I think, that had different route numbers on it So we spent the rest of the afternoon trying to find the location of these post office boxes just driving around Sherwood around with Samadhi, did you have any discussion with her as to what the motive was for killing Charles Turner? Yes She explained that again, that Charles Turner was involved, headed the INS immigration investigation that was taking place against the ranch And the idea was if we killed him, that the investigation would be interrupted and that would give us more time What, if anything, did you say about that? I listened, I guess I don remember saying anything other than taking lH the information Now, during this period of time when you were driving A. . I Q. . A. A. Avalos 714 Based upon your conversations with Sheela, what was Sheela vlew of the Grand Jury lnvestlgatlon of the commune durlng June of 1985? that she sald MR WEATHERHEAD Objectlon to hearsay, Your Honor THE COURT Ask the questlon again, please (By Mr Gl1ck) In relatlon to the Grand Jury lnvestlgatlon, what lf Sheela say about lt lH June of 1985? THE COURT lt ln Sustaln the objectlon (By Mr you have any dlscusslon Sheela ln 1985 the Grand Jury lnvestlgatlon belng headed up by Charles Turner' Yes She express to you and make any statement about her vlew ln tlme period of the Grand Jury and possible effects on the ranch' Yeah All of us were very concerned about the INS lnvestlgatlon that was taking place because we understood that a Grand Jury had convened and that lf lf any of the couples that were belng lnvestlgated were found thelr marriages were found to be fraudulent, then that would reflect badly on Bhagwan also and he could be deported And then that we had . Q. . Needs some kind of tie-inA. Avalos 715 worked for on the ranch would cease to exlst The ranch couldn have exlsted wlthout Bhagwan Everyone had thrown all of thelr money and tlme and energy lnto creatlng commune So we had at stake How was rt, glven the that you had, that you came to ln dlscusslons about Charles Turner at polnt ln 1985? Well, I felt later ln to make sense of everything that happened to me, understood how desperate was to belong to a group, how desperate I was to have a famlly, you know, coming from some of the that I came from And there was more lmportant to me than my family, than my home, 15 the way I sald lt then, you know I was to jeopardize my llfe, glve up my llfe to protect the communlty, to protect Bhagwan How long a perlod of tlme you drive around Samadhl searching for Charles Turner house' Pretty much three, four hours, good part of the day there come a tlme when you eventually found lt' Yes to the ladles and gentlemen the clrcumstances lmmedlately precedlng lt and then the house Well, we flnally came upon a group of mallhoxes . . A. Avalos 716 There were, I don know, maybe seven, elght of them ln row, some old ones and then some of them that were llke Oregonlan mailboxes on the slde of the road The about road, however, was that lt wasn these mallboxes weren attached to any house They were lH the of street Well, they weren't really streets, they were dirt roads that one went this way and one went that way And there were houses all along those streets So we got to the mallboxes, found the mallbox We didn know where the house was And we went and had lunch And somehow ln I declded What ended up happenlng was I tried to flgure out way to go and we came I declded to turn on the road And when we went down when we turned on the road and went down a couple of houses we found Charles Turner home because lt had a 1n the front yard that sald Turner And what was you and Samadhl reactlon ln Mr Turner house' At the tlme we were exclted of havlng found the house What, lf you do at that polnt' Well, we went back to the apartment where we were at and called the ranch and reported back that we had found I at that I could do a road drive to try and find the houseA. Avalos 717 and located his house. And you sald that you went back to an apartment What apartment was th1s? Well, I they were called the St Francls apartments They were yellow apartments ln Portland I guess would be consldered of a safe house where we would go and change our clothes and, you know, we would from the ranch to the apartment, change our clothes and then go out, you know, to do whatever lt was we were gOlDg to be dolng And can you lH terms of time how long a perlod of tlme you remaln at the house when you got there before you went back to the apartment" We drove around and looked at and then stayed ln the area probably three hours or so I mean lt took us a couple of hours to rt We probably stayed there that tlme two or three hours by the slde of the road just of dolng and seelng whether the road was busy or who came around there It was a pretty lsolated place lt for the ladles and gentlemen It really pretty country, rural and of rolling and real pretty trees And there 15 a maln road before you turn off to the road to get to Charles Q. . A. . go A. After we found the house we we stayed in the area. Q. . . . A. A. Avalos 718 Turner house And there lS another road you down, lt was really country It lS not, lt not clty at all And lt very lsolated you remaln ln the same locatlon durlng first vlewlng of the home that you were at' We went and parked ln a couple of dlfferent locations and just sat out there I we put the hood up once, lf anybody wondered what we were dolng to pretend we were broken down And these dlfferent locatlons, you have a of the home from there? Sometlmes spoke to back at the ranch when you reported ln that you found the house? I don remember who But lt would have been MS SCISSORS Objection (By Mr Just tell us lf you remember No, I don there come a tlme you went back to the house with Samadhl later that Yes, later that evenlng Approxlmately what time rn the evenlng was that' It was around Later ln the evening And can you tell the ladles and gentlemen what All right. And do you recall who it was that you A. Avalos happened when you went back at m1dn1ght? 719 Well, baslcally the same thing We just went to see the lay of the land and to see what lt was like there ln the evenlng, to of get an ldea what was happenlng ln the meantime And what you discover was happenlng around Charles Turner house around on a partlcular June It was very qulte and very lsolated What, lf anything, Samadhl say about the location and Charles Turner' Well, both of us talked And what was discussed' Well, how that could be about the of And what plans or operation you dlscuss, lf any You remember any of the spec1f1cs? Well, yeah One ldea was that as he was comlng out along road, elther 1D the what sticks ln memory, m0ID1ng plan before he got out, out somebody could pretend they were because the road was only a one lane road to maybe you could two cars but lt was real llke lf he was broken down house so narrow Somebody could pretend llke thelr car lS broken down and stop the car would have to stop and then somebody would shoot killing Charles Turner there A. Avalos 720 Did there come a time that you then went back to the apartment the St Francis apartment after this midnight viewing Yes And for how long a period of time did you remain, did you say? After the evening? No, during the evening Maybe an hour or so I don remember staying a long time at night We were there for a long while else come? Yes Back at the Portland hotel, the real Rajneesh hotel, Vidya was giving a press conference about some legal pleading or proceedings that was happening And so we went to the hotel, also to tell Vidya, hey, we found Charles Turner house So amazingly enough Vidya asked to go with us to see his house Why do you say amazingly enough' Well, because up to that point Vidya, Sheela or Rikta MS SCISSORS Objection, your Honor, question has been answered MR GLICK She is 1n the middle of her answer THE COURT. I don think it has been answeredDirecting your attention to the next day. Did anybody A. . Q. A. A. Avalos 721 What was the purpose or what was sa1d? MR GLICK She replled amazingly so I was her to explaln that THE COURT What was the reason' THE WITNESS Well, that up untll that polnt Sheela, Vldya, Rlkta, the main people, never went out on any of (By Mr Glick) So you were that Vldya was there, lS that correct? Yeah I was surprised she wanted to come us contact with her' At the hotel she had red you know, the regular sannyasln red clothing she change' Yes And what was Vldya role 1H relatlon to Rajneesh Legal Services and the INS 1nVest1gat1on? Well, Vldya ran the legal department on the ranch And what, lf had Vldya say prlor to about the INS Because she ran the legal department she was the one that was ln charge of making sure that all of the couples were prepared and anyone that, you know, was going to he lntervlewed by the INS was prepared She was also Q. . d' A. . Q. What clothing did Vidya have when you came into A. Avalos 722 in charge of the all of the legal proceedings to try and get Bhagwan immigration approved in this country She was in charge of all of the legal things And did she then go with you on this surveillance of Charles Turner' Yes, she did What happened when you got to Charles Turner house this time, the second day with Vidya? Well, the same thing We drove her there and showed her where it was and drove around and came back All right And while you were at Charles Turner house, was there any discussing with Vidya and Samadhi Yes what was discussed with Vidya and Samadhi? Again, all of us discussed the possibility of killing him And what, if anything, did Vidya say about killing Charles Turner' She listened to what we had to say And was anyone else with you during this particular surve1llance? I think just the three of us at the time Did there come a time anyone else joined you going on surveillance' A. . A. . concerning their killing of Charles TurnerA. Avalos 723 Yes, later Yoglnl came What happened when Yoglnl arrived' We also took her out to see Charles Turner home Was this another other than the you descr1bed? I belleve so We went out Vrdya a couple of tlmes and Vldya was out at Charles Turner a couple of t1mes? Yes How long a perlod of tlme you remaln at Charles Turner house' drove I was really consclous Vldya was with us Vldya was the presldent of the commune We feel llke we could get caught the presldent of the commune roamlng around Charles Turner house Was there any separate of the courthouse where Mr Turner worked? Yes Before we had gone out to Charles Turner home Before the time you went out to house' Yes, I belleve so to the ladles and gentlemen whatwas actually before we went out and before we went out to Sherwood Samadhr had been here before and Not very long. Again, we just went out there and A. Avalos 724 sald she figured out how Charles Turner came lH and out of this And she wanted to see lf we could see agaln comlng lH and out of the I know what he looked llke I only had a picture from yearbook, many years prevlously So I sat at the I the bar the other slde, llke lf this was a one way street, here lt was the other slde I sat In a parked car for a whlle people come lH and out of the courthouse not knowlng who I was for the car golng to be lOOk1Dq for but knowlng I was gOlHq to look Charles Turner Then we went to the lot across parking lot lf that lS where he parked What you think about any plan to shoot lH the lot? I thought lt was a bad ldea Why' Because I thought well, lt seemed pretty to try and shoot across the street from the courthouse ln a lot where lt would make tons of noise Samadhl say about what role she wanted to play In the of Charles Turner' Samadhl was real enthuslastlc about and wanted to shoot hlm, actually. And that was, agaln, rather absurd the street. And she had this idea that he could be shot A. Avalos 725 and farfetched to me Because Samadhl had never been lncluded ln the 24 people, had never practlced, as far knew, guns and only had the use of one She had one and she wanted to Turner' Yes And how long you remaln outslde to see lf Charles Turner would go ln or out' don really remember It was a whlle ln a structure for a long perlod of tlme We sat outslde the courthouse people come How long you remaln outslde of courthouse to Charles Turner? An hour or two, maybe You sald you had an old yearbook picture you have at tlm? 1D June of 1985 and up to date plcture of Charles Turner? there come a tlme when your lH the of Charles Turner came to an end and you went back to the ranch' Yes What happened and what were the c1rcumstances? Well, after Yoglnl came 1D she relleved me Samadhl and I went back to the ranch. I flew back and out longer than the parking structureA. Avalos 726 ranch on the commune plane Vldya And you have any other role at the end of June the beglnn1ng of July lH relatlon to Charles Turner and hlm' Only that, that wanted came and asked me for a camera We had these very small cameras that we could take plctures of of wlthout them knowln I guess was the ldea He came and asked me for a camera because he was golng to be golng to some sort of social functlon that Charles Turner was and he wanted to take plcture Yes, I Now, your attentlon to the of September, three weeks later, there come a tlme when certaln people left the commune" Yes Can you the circumstances surrounded that and what you and what happened? Well at a certain polnt Sheela started to talk to that same small group of people and sald that she felt like she wasn happy on the ranch anymore and she feel like she would she was ready to go to prlson for Bhagwan, or work for anymore, you know, glve up her llfe for anymore She started about all Did you give K.D. that little cameraA. Avalos 727 leaving the country together, fleelng the country put lt fleeing the county, all leave the country together and go else 1U Europe Where you part of that group" Yes, I was Sheela leave the commune" Yes, she What you do' on a travelrng When she came back lt was around the of September, she came hack and told us, I leavlng tomorrow or, you know, real soon, maybe one or two days She wrote a letter of reslgnatlon to the Bhagwan She sald she thought we ought the people that were close to her had a real hard tlme to decide whether or not we should go or whether we should go And flnally pretty much all of us declded, okay, let go And we Sheela left the before And then the next day we all packed and got lnto the van and left we were the top of the ranch, so everyone was ln complete turmoll and we suddenly declded to get up and go Nobody really understood what was golng on What was your emotional state at the tlm?j A. I was really, really upset I was really confused . Well, Sheela came she was away on a she was away . up A. Avalos 728 because that I had done to that polnt had been for Bhagwan and the commune Subsequently we were now and we were golng off and do for ourselves And lt just lt make sense to me And prlor through the summer of 1985, what were your sleeplng hours then, the time' Sorry' What were your sleeping hours' What was golng terms of how you were feellng? Through the summer of 1985, durlng the tlme you were and up untll the tlme you left? Well, we were all you know, we were llke crazy We were havlng ln the evenlng, we were dolng schedule at the Bhagwan house Sometimes we slept maybe, four, flve hours a Four 15 probably closer to what lt was So our schedules were completely lnsane What happened then when you left the ranch and came to Portland' Well, Sheela had left before us Then there were a group of us went to a hotel 1D Portland And some people had passports already updated and some of us have new, you know, the new passport So half of the people could leave before the other half And I was really upsetWhat pointA. Avalos 729 And I hadn slept that so when we all got to the hotel Vldya gave me a sleeping so I could calm down And when I woke up ln the morning I found out that they had all talked ln the evenlng about all the plans that were golng to happen So when I woke up YOglHl walked lH the room and sald I just talked to Sheela on the phone, 15 golng to be flne We are golng to go buy a dlsco Europe And snapped of me at that tlme I sald, That lS the most Idea I ever heard of ln my life What you do? dlfferently about that I mean, everybody was so upset really at the tlme that, you know, everybody was really upset at the tlme So me saying I wasn going to go added to an already had sltuatlon So d1d you go back to the commune' Yeah How was lt you were able to go back to the commune after havlng left' I called I called Geeta agaln at the ranch I said, I really want to come back I don want to go She sald, Okay, come back So I dropped off I dropped off Yoglnl. I drove YOg1nl to the alrport I sald good bye . said, "I'm not going." And I think people felt A. Avalos 730 her I drove the van back to the Portland hotel and then got on the plane and went back to the ranch What happened when you got back to the ranch? When I go back to the ranch I found out Bhagwan had press conference LU the and had made a number of allegatlons agalnst all of the people that had left And what you was golng to happen to you that tlme? Well, even before I was back to the ranch, when I woke up that I reallzed that I had done to that polnt had been completely wrong And I thought, lf have to spent the rest of my llfe ln prlson because of that, that lS what I have to do I felt llke I had to make I had to put straight Sorry' I had to set things straight And part of that process, you come to retaln an attorney or have Contact the Yeah the first Contact the FBI and the clrcumstances that surrounded that Well, after Bhagwan Bhagwan started to have these press conferences and accused us all of doing all of and everyone started accuslng us of dolng all of some of were true and some A. Avalos 731 weren true, people were of havlng a hey day And because of the allegatlons the FBI and the State Department descended on the ranch of on matters and set up offlces llke In the middle of the ranch there You say the State Department, the State Department Department of State ln Washington' The State Pollce, sorry And I recelved a message to go and speak to an FBI agent named, Paul Hudson So I went ln to see And what I told was that I was really confused and that I know who to trust anymore And he llstened to me And I told hlm, I sald, A lot of people are saylng a lot of that are true and a lot of people are saylng a lot of that aren true to me, I here And I left And I ended up talkln qolng the only person I felt at that polnt I could really trust was my old frlend, Sono who had gone had gone to Indla when I was Spell Prem Sono Prem Sono, So I went and found Sono And sald Would you llke a break' I ll be okay I told her what had happened to And just a second, she llstened and she went Q. or A. . I . said, "Okay, we will just I'm here. If you want to talk me. A. Avalos 732 MS SCISSORS Objectlon, Your Honor, as to relevance And also lt clearly golng to be hearsay It really lrrelevant THE COURT Her own but not someone else at stage (By Mr What were your about what was happening to you at stage' What you do? I talked to Sono about what had happened Wlthout us what Sono sald to you, what you do' It really what Sono at that polnt? What Sono do' help And so at that polnt agaln, I was really confused And I was told by someone, and I don remember who lt was, that I should go ln and tell the FBI that I knew I went ln and I sat down I know that Sono had spoken to Paul Hudson She later told me she had done So I went to Paul Hudson And I sald, want to tell you what happened And he sald, I don think you want to tell me what happened He sald I don want to talk to you untll you have an attorney You need an attorney And you need to do whatever you can to an attorney, that lS what you needSono went to Paul Hudson and told him my friend needs A. Avalos 733 He make an attempt to lnterrogate you even though you wanted to talk' He wouldn What happened, you get an attorney? At that polnt there were a lot of other people on the ranch that felt llke that because the FBI and everybody where there there were a group of people that went to Portland to some attorneys to talk to And then that was when I met Ron Hoevet and Jack Ransom for the first tlme and we talked And then they recommended that I hlre Tommy Hawk as my attorney you do that' you hlre Tommy Hawk as your attorney" But the people at the commune put together some sort of fund to hlre attorneys for people that needed attorneys that polnt And that lS the ones that pald But I want to be my attorney Did Mr Hawk negotiate a plea agreement or lmmunlty agreement, lf you the United States? Yes, he And are you that' Yes, I am And what lS your as to what you have promlsed to do as part of that agreementWell, I didn't hire him. I didn't have any moneyA. Avalos 734 Part of the agreement I promlse to tell that I knew about everything that had happened as accurately as I could And what you understand that the promlse of the Unlted States was as part of that agreement' That as long as I lf I lle about or misrepresent any lnformatlon that I wouldn be prosecuted for the crimes that I But lf I was found to lle or tell not tell the truth lh any way I would be prosecuted completely for my crlmes and for that I sald that I sald would be used agalnst me all at once All Now, you talked a earller, you sald you a lot of things that you reallzed were at that polnt really wrong Can you tell the ladles and gentlemen the that you that at polnt that you knew were wrong' Actually I made a 11st Is lt okay for me to take lt out' MR WEATHERHEAD Your Honor, I object The quallty of wltness memory lS cruclal to us THE WITNESS Well, I just want to forget any of them THE COURT Go ahead and do what you can wlthout the 11st If you need the to refresh your memory PM A. . 7 A. Avalos 735 after that you can use it. THE WITNESS: Okay. I participated in poisoning Judge Hull. I participated in the salmonella poisoning that took place in The Dalles I participated in a series of MS SCISSORS Objection, Your Honor Can we approach the bench, please' THE COURT Ladies and gentlemen, why don you step out (Jury out) THE COURT Ms Scissors MS SCISSORS We are conferring among ourselves Your Honor It had been my understanding from the discussion we had the other day regarding immunity crimes for which an individual witness received immunity The problem with something like this is that all of us have very carefully avoided the hit list, which includes a whole series of people But now suddenly we have Ms Avalos testifying she got immunity for poisoning Judge Hull, which is very prejudicial because it creates the impression that, you know, all kinds of particularized individuals, public officers in that case were being poisoned, targeted or whatever . I . that the Government was to elicit those categories of A. Avalos 736 MR. GLICK: Your Honor, should we excuse the witness during this? THE COURT: Yes. I think it would be better if the was excused (Wltness excused from the stand THE COURT Mr MR GLICK Yes I we are dOlHg exactly what the Court wants us to do I we have been very careful to, on dlrect, to stay away from those areas that the Court has that dellcate balance ln the 404(b) area The wltnesses are under enormous pressure They are not attorneys It a legal lssue, but we have them as far as the dlrect lS concerned to stay away from certaln areas, and we that Now we are ln that of the testlmony lS not a chronolog to make lt seem as lf there 15 a serles of acts everyone the foundatlon 15 the plea agreement and what crlmes she she recelved lmmunlty on She lS about what she She not t&1k1Hg about what any others let alone that Savlta or Su ln them And she 15 under from me to just say what you And that 15 what she lS dolng . . . . . . . . . . . is I . . . . A. Avalos So far as Ms lS confused Hull was on the earller tlme It wasn 737 the lS concerned, I about the whether Judge That lS a pOlSOnlng at a much an attempt to Judge Hull as part of the So she lS factually wrong there But the lS dolng exactly what we thought would be the dEURllCate balance that the Court to stay away from the chronolog and to have the the that they lH as part of the plea agreement and what they recelved lmmunlty on And that 15 what the wltness lS dOlng and there lS no doubt on cross examlnatlon they go lHtO all of the bad that Ms Avalos to make lt seem to the jury she lS not a credlble person or that she had some sort of bl&S because she heard testlmony her testlmony lS ln exchange for not belng punlshed for all of the crlmes that she commlt So lt relevant a way we thought the Court wanted us to, lS a dellcate and balanced way THE COURT MS SCISSORS I was the analogy Both sldes have avolded saylng actually llsted ten or so people because that would open the door We are dolng lt ln and that measure by that Sheela the vlew had been . . . . A. Avalos 738 Well, by saylng the polsonlng of Judge Hull lS llke saylng that there were other publlc that were targeted So lt the analogy, not the fact Judge Hulls was ever on the That makes The other that lS as bad or worse she 15 belng to she lH lnstead of statlng Wh1Ch 15 mlSlEad1Hg to the jury lnstead of St&tlHg, I So I would ask on both scores that the testlmony not he allowed And the lnference was was that others were lnvolved She 15 here to say what she and what she got lmmunlty for THE COURT Well, has always been a concern to all of us I counsel has followed to the letter that I set the other day some prevlous testlmony along the same llne There that has some reverberatlons that one after lS no can conslder on the lssue of prejudlce And I am testlmony from prejudlclal posltlon, but I also feel that the Government lS to the jury ln as belng one affalrs or her And as although I don llke lt, to blunt endeavors of the defendants to use put before who lS candld about her the word lS used what would falrly be the these same acts to attack her The Government, I have pIeVlOUSly . so is ll . my I A. Avalos 739 ruled, lS to do that, and I they have been very CautlOUS ln dOlHg lt ln lnstance It would not necessarlly he accurate for her to say, I somethln lf she was merely or was not merely but was one of several That doesn necessarlly mean that your ln, but lt may well be the only truthful answer she can glV8 about that She lS gOlHg to say, I ln" or lH or dldmeans there may have been prejudlce to the defendants, but I am carefully, but I cannot preclude all evldence that the Government 15 to put ln just because lt has some prejudlce, whether the prejudlce the use that the Government puts testlmony to, and here I lt does not, so I am golng to overrule your Oh]eCtl0H Would be a better tlme to stop for noon rather than the jury back" MR GLICK Yes If the Court wlshes to stop, we as well Maybe we can return a earller MS SCISSORS I assume there lS a few more mlnutes of dlrect MR GLICK I that assumptlon lS THE COURT Okay That assumptlon 15 lnCOfI6Ct the jury backothers involved. Now, that has got some questions of A. Avalos 740 (Jury ln) THE COURT Be seated One of the jurors has mentloned that the wltness lS somewhat to hear so I ask that you advlse her to speak more dlrectly lnto the mlcrophone I found lt the same when she turns away from I have difficulty hearlng too MR GLICK I ll tell her durlng the luncheon recess THE COURT Ladles and gentlemen, we are golng to take our noon recess at tlme The reason we brought you back lh to tell you you can go agaln, I want to remlnd you agaln of all of my admonltlons You are back ln trlal mode agaln where you need to be very careful movlng lH and out of the and belng around people that be out on the sidewalk So be cautlous to have a good lunch and be back We reconvene counsel Any matters that counsel you need to up or can we just begin we reconvene at 1 00 Be back a few minutes early and we start at O0 clock THE CLERK Court now lR recess untll 1 O0 (Luncheon recessTHE move the mlke THE moment on one THE THE brought to my 741 AFTERNOON SESSION (Jury out) COURT Mr Ms Avalos, I want you to up and speak Ilght lnto lt WITNESS Okay GLICK Your Honor, may we approach for a other matter? COURT All GLICK Mr Wax brought lt to my attentlon COURT Be seated, everyone It has been attentlon that some members of the gallery are ln close to the jurors a couple of publlcatlons relate to the commune I need to be partlcularly to what my jurors are exposed to, and therefore, I am golng to ask that you leave those papers out of the courtroom or those out of the courtroom Now, I should also you that the sale or out of of pamphlets or materlal the courthouse lS And therefore, lf there have been attempts to sell or dlStIlbUtEUR any of lnformatlon, lt lS a matter may well be ln vlolatlon of that edlct I have asked a couple of ltems be brought to me now from where lt lS posted as you enter the courthouse Because 742 this case, even if that document does not preclude the sale or distribution of written materials about Rajneesh, I prohibit it within the courthouse and it immediate area of jurisdiction around the courthouse So I don know if there is any question that you might have on this, but I don want to have any misunderstanding Sollcitinq on commercial or political, vending of all kinds, displaying, advertising, commercial goes on quite a list here It is not allowed within the courthouse or its environment So you should be aware of that and be very careful, as it could bring about a citation VOICE Your Honor, may I apologize for my thoughtlessness And if I leave these in the coat room outside, may we come back and llsten to the testimony THE COURT Well, you can come back I would like you to take them out of the courthouse now VOICE Out of the courthouse VOICE Thank you MR WEATHERHEAD Your Honor, before the jury comes back, I took advantage of the unexpected break to hand up a proposed limiting instruction. THE COURT: Excuse me. Let me take it one step further. I'm not sure either of you ladies and gentlemen advertisements, collecting private debts, and so forth. 'It . . . 743 were around when the admonition was given to the jurors. They are not only to contact anybody or be subject to any publicity about this case, but they are not allowed to have anyone approach them about anything that has any relation to this case So most of these jurors are all marked with a jury button, but they may not wear that And.so that could be a violation of my rules regarding any contact with jurors You must he very, very careful about this VOICE It was not my intent to contact any of the jurors After we sat down here, I thought about the book and I put my purse on top, but I am sorry THE COURT Okay Thank you VOICE Thank you MR WEATHERHEAD Your Honor, since we have committed to the Court we had no business and didn at the jury, I did hand up to Miss Black and I distributed to the Government and Mr Wax a proposed limiting instruction regarding plea agreements that Mr Simms prepared for me and was able to complete over the noon hour, and this seems like a timely opportunity to propose it to the Court There was some discussion in camera the other day about the Court willingness or perhaps even duty to instruct the jury in connection with the blunting issue, and our thought was that since Miss Avalos is about time. Once we got the unanticipated moment away from the 744 to apparently embark on relatlng to her plea agreement and relatlng to the conduct underlay lt, we request that be glven lmmedlately after that testlmony lS recelved Thank you THE COURT Now, I am golng to ask you keep me tuned to when you are done with Do you have any Ob]eCtlOnS to l1m1t1ng? MR GLICK Very Two reasons One, this The Clrcult has clearly sald patent these of should given once ln a trlal lt shouldn be comblned when lt comes to type of area ln terms of the great cautlon If we do lt now and agaln, 1t's repeating lS a 1U the Clrcult Now, the second polnt 1S that as we dlscussed before, 15 a very fluid SltUatlOH And now, may be accurate, but to dellver lt for all tlme, we don know what 13 golng to happen on cross may be a different Sltu&tlOH I don know lf the Court wants to be ln a posltlon where lt glven an and now lt has to craft a new one and take back what lt sald I think lt needs to be I we need to lt through and I don't know that lS the tlme to do . in . be accomplice or something else. You should do one It 745 that Maybe we have a break a later on PILOI to the next THE COURT Let me ask you, lf I was to delete the last sentence and then start out the wlth, Unless I you further and to the contrary MR GLICK I the deletion of the last sentence ln that proposed be all lt should be done at the concluslon of the wltness testlmony, not the It drawn for thelr I MR WEATHERHEAD My ls, Your Honor, and that the cases Dawbert recommends that the lnfar THE COURT That lS what I the way worded, lt sounds that way That lS why I was you to clue me ln when you are done that MR GLICK It should be subject to cross they open the door on cross, we are ln a dlfferent Sltu&tlOD We should walt for the to be done, cross and redirect MR WEATHERHEAD Well, at juncture, Your Honor, their only basis the only lawful haSlS, the rules and glVeH the Court order upon witness can be to to those matters, lS ln relatlon ll ll I . instructions be read after the testimony in question comes . I . 746 to impeachment That 15 what this instruction goes Naturally, Your Honor, we prefer the instruction as it designed here on the understanding it has been proved, although I will not say mandated, by the Ninth Circuit The Ninth Circuit also recognized the giving of the instruction twice, once following the testimony ln question and once when the jury is charged at the end of the case Again, that is a recommendation from the circuit, not a mandate We feel in this particular case it 1S an appropriate course of action THE COURT All right Now, do you want this with the witness, completely through' MR WEATHERHEAD My belief is the instruction ought to be given after she testifies about her prior crimes In other words, she testified about a conspiracy That is what we are here about Fine Now she 15 going to testify, though, about a number of other crimes It seems to me the law says we are entitled to have the jury immediately told THE COURT I not going to do it more than once until I get to my final instructions on the jury as to the one final witness If you go back into these same crimes on cross examination, you don get it again MR WEATHERHEAD I understand that, Your Honor to' . . instruction when he is questioning or when you are through . . I . . A. Avalos 7 THE COURT You rather have lt at time? WEATHERHEAD I so GLICK We object to that and walt for the concluslon of redlrect 47 THE COURT All You let me know when you are through and that lS when I am golng to give lt MR GLICK The concluslon of my dlrect? THE COURT Well, at the concluslon of type of testimony You may have other areas MR. . . MR. GLICK: After we do this, I am going to start Q. . showlng her some though THE COURT Okay (Jury ln) DIRECT EXAMINATION (Contlnuatlng) BY MR GLICK Good afternoon, Avalos Before the lunch rece we were the that you had done that you were not proud of that were part of the plea agreement Can you explain for the ladles and gentlemen of the jury the crimes that you personally were lnvolved 1n? I was lnvolved I 1U of Devara] numerous times, who was Bhagwan lh polsonlng attempts on Vlvek, who was SS A. Avalos 748 Bhagwan a number of tlmes I ln polsonlng of Judge Hull I lh salmonella pOlSOnlnQ of the dams I ln medical records ln relatlon to the Share A Home project, and knew about Haldol belng glven to the people lnvolved there wlthout thelr knowledge I ln, I guess you would call lt and of the durlng the Share A Home project, named Felton Walker I ln the arson of the Clty attempted murder, attempt on Savrta llfe I knew about the attempt on to Devaraj at the celebration I knew about the electron fraud attempt ln the Wasco County election I'm not sure what all the names are I ln the plot to Charles Turner I ln the plot to Helen Byron I ln Any respect to The 0regon1an? MR WEATHERHEAD Objection Leadrng, Your Honor THE COURT Sustained That as far as she can remember (By Mr As best you can remember' A Now, he sald that should I say that' Planner's Office and Attorney's Office. I participated in . . Q. . A. Avalos 749 THE COURT Yes What you can remember now THE WITNESS Okay Well, I ln attempt to break ln and destroy evldence at the Oregonian I 1U the that occurred on the ranch That was the majority of them All You earller you had a Would lt refresh your recollectlon by that lf there was else' I have the 11st THE COURT Just look at lt to refresh your memory, not to read lt lnto the record Lorna Buckles after stealing her wallet ln Portland represented myself also twlce as people that I wasn t, two tlmes Once, Donna Larson and another tlme Tlna something I don remember the last name First name Tlna And I also ln the of Wasco County Courthouse w1th the lntentlon of the courthouse I ln the of a man named I lt I don remember name last name was Khomelnl llquor store, and the lntentlon of possibly his liquor store Also, he was ln the hospltal, when he was ln the hospltal, with the of possibly harming there I also knew about the way that money was Q. . . A. THE WITNESS: Okay. I represented myself A. Avalos 750 brought I suppose lnto the United States Large cash money was brought ln I that about lt MR GLICK Okay, your Honor THE COURT Ladles and gentlemen, unless I you further on respect, or contrary to these the testlmony that you have just heard, that the wltness entered lnto a plea agreement for crlmes she has ln the past ln exchange for her testlmony today plea agreement or the confessed crlmes contalned thereln or ln this testlmony lS not evldence against the defendants, and you may conslder lt only ln Avalos or All Proceed MR GLICK May I approach the witness, Your Honor? THE COURT Yes (By Mr I want to show you Government' 3 lnto evldence, and I ask you to take a look that Do you recognlze that' Yes What 15 lt? Jesus Grove, the compound where Sheela and the ones that worked with her llved All . . A. Avalos 751 MR GLICK If I may, Your Honor (By Mr Glick) Now I show you 3A ln evldence Would you take a look at Do you recognize th1s? Yes lS the floor plan of the traller complex It shows Jesus Grove Is lt the maln house' Yes there ever come a tlme when you llved ln the maln house? Yes Could you lf she may, Your Honor, where she llved? Come up to the dlagram Yes MR GLICK Your Honor, may the record reflect she 15 the portion of the dlagram on the top, bedroom THE COURT Let put an ln that bedroom (By Mr Just put your ln the spot where you llved want to show you, lf I may, Your Honor 3B Take a look at that Do you recognlze that' It a dlagram of Sheela bedroom Is this the bedroom where the serles of took place to kill Charles Turner? Yes There were also some that took place (IndicatingA. Avalos 752 On Government room There lS a large square there Okay I ll show you what lS marked as Government 5, 5A and 5B MR WEATHERHEAD Your Honor, I have a relevance object on those I belleve, from earlier MR GLICK Do you want to see them' THE COURT There lS yes Just go ahead your questlonlng MR GLICK Thank you, Your Honor and see lf you can these These are the that I out The one on the here were lt says Tlna Rlvera, that out, that was out after we burned down Dan Durow offlce 1n San MR WAX Your Honor, I we object to the we there We need of that (By Mr Just tell us, were you part of the we Yes There were two names and so I sald we MR WEATHERHEAD Your Honor, the record, I glven the amblgulty on that polnt, should the (By Mr. Glick) I'd ask you to take a look at this A. Avalos 753 bottom name was Rlchard Langford THE COURT Yes MR GLICK I sorry THE COURT We clarlfled the other name was Rlchard Langford MR GLICK Yes (By Mr Now, you earller on dlrect examlnatlon the apartment that you changed, or used for portlon of the Mr Turner, was the St Francls apartments, lS that correct' That lS I would llke to show the wltness 24A I ask you to take a look at that Tell us lf you recognlze Is lt a falr and accurate of the St Francis apartment as lt was at the tlme you used lt for of Charles Turner? Yes GLICK I offer lt, Your Honor WEATHERHEAD No objection THE COURT Recelved (Government's 24A recelved (By Mr Now, you on dlrect examlnatlon that you used a Ford Maverlck Yes. That was the St. Francis apartmentA. Avalos 754 lH the of Charles Turner' Yes You remember the name you used ln the of that Ford Maver1ck? I belleve lt was Stella Larson MR GLICK Your Honor, I would llke to show the wltness 26A, B, Please take a look at 26A, 26B, 26C Do you recognlze either your slgnature or any of the on these documents' 26B I slgned Stella Larson That 15 my All three of them are a of tltle and for the tltle for the car of Charles Turner? Yes MR GLICK I offer ln evldence and I belleve we have a stlpulatlon MR WEATHERHEAD believe lt lS stlpulated to foundation, Your Honor don see the relevance, but I don really care, so I don't object THE COURT 26A, MR GLICK Yes, Your Honor THE COURT Recelved (Government EXhlb1tS 26A and received THE COURT. Is there an offer And was this the Ford Maverick used A. Avalos 755 MR GLICK Not at this tlme We have a stipulation to read for 26A, B, C, MS HAIMOV It lS hereby stipulated and agreed by and between the United States of America and the defendants, Sally Anne Croft, also known as Ma Prem Savlta and Su Hagan, also known as Ma Anand Su, and through their counsel these facts are accurate The Unlted States 26 lS an envelope United States Exhibit 26A, 26B and 26C That Unlted States 26A lS a copy of a of tltle for at 1974 Ford number 4K9lLl9l547 from the Department of the State of Washington That United States 26B 15 certified copy of a dealer temporary permit application for a 1974 Ford Maverick, license plate number IFC 257, vehlcle No from the Department of from the State of Washington That Unlted States 26C 15 CEURItlfl&d copy of a mlCIOfllm copy of a tltle for a 1974 Ford Maverick, license No IFC 257, ID number from the Department of of the State of Washington That United States 26A, 26B and 26C . I Maverick, license plate IFC 257, vehicle identification I a of A. Avalos 756 are each records kept and malntalned 1U the course of regularly conducted buslness at the Department the State of That lt LS and was the regular practlce of the Department of the State to mark and malntaln these records, and that much of these records was made at or near the tlme of the event and facts deplcted by and from lnformatlon by a person knowledge of these events and facts And lt lS also hereby stlpulated and agreed that this stlpulatlon may be recelved lnto evldence and counsel for any matter the approval of the Court may lt to the jury durlng the trlal Slgned by each of the partles and by both defendants Croft and Hagan MR GLICK May I approach? THE COURT Yes (By Mr Glick) Now I want to show you Government 27A, 27B, and 27C, ask you to examlne these and tell me lf you can them for the record? These are the employment reports from Servlcemaster where I worked sald I was Lorna Buckles I filled out the 4 form and I slgned Lorna Buckles 4 And 27A, 27B was my time sheet I turned 1U And 27C looks like a payroll lnput record from Servlcemaster I never saw that beforeWhere you get form? It was from Lorna have a Soclal Securlty A wallet that you Yes A. Avalos 757 the Soclal Security number to put on Buckles wallet that happened card ln lt that I took stole' I ll show you Government 28 and tell me lf you recognlze that? lS the envelope that went some books that Were sent to a box that I In openlng And when was lt that you went and found this envelope' It was after I was testlmony to the Government Were the books send before you reached your agreement the Government' Yes, they were MR REARDON If I may, Your Honor" THE COURT Yes (By Mr I want to show you what lS marked as Government 23C and ask you lf you can take a look at that' D0 you recognlze that? Yes What lS that' It a false 1dent1f1cat1on of Shant1 Bhadra obtalned ln New York It looks llke lt 1t's a New York State card And when we were all preparing A. Avalos 758 leave the ranch Shantl Bhadra gave this to me and told me to destroy lt In the of I forgot and stuck lt ln a sweater pocket and then weeks later ybe month later I put my hand ln my pocket and I found Who you g1ve lt to? I gave it to I don remember exactly who I gave lt Was lH the same I glve lt to somebody 1D lt Government, the FBI Bhadra gave lt to you' Yes MR GLICK I offer this, 23C THE COURT 23C lS recelved (Government 23C recelved MR GLICK Can I lt to the jury whlle I hand the wltness the next exh1b1t? THE COURT Yes MR GLICK And 24A as well, Your Honor, may I that to the jury' THE COURT Yes MR GLICK May I approach the wltness, Your Honor THE COURT Yes Q. (By Mr I want to show you Government . this in the same condition as it was when Shanti A. . A. Avalos 759 19 for and ask you to look at this Tell me lf you recognlze th1s? Well, looks llke a brlefcase that I used to carry on the ranch And what type of ltems you keep ln br1efcase? We kept a number of dlfferent but books about how to people and different that were needed to carry out some of the crlmes that I And you personally have possesslon of brlefcase' Yeah, lt was assigned to me I would llke to show you Government l9A, l9B, 19C and 19D Tell me lf you can those ltems? Yes These were books How to 1 through 1 through 6 but When you see these books on the commune? These books were purchased by Jullan and they were the Inner of people that agreed to as the team Sheela ask that we read them and get to know what was of them you read those books? I never ready them cover to cover I looked through them Now, Government 19E and 19E 1 and 2, 15 the book called Wlthout a Trace And lt about how A. Avalos 760 commlt crlmes wlthout belng caught, how to commlt crlmes wlthout leavlng a trace you read this book' I have read this book more completely than I How to books I don I read lt cover to cover, but of lt And these two markers, book markers are one has l9E 1 has call numbers on lt In my and I belleve I was sent to out about polsonous plants at one polnt lH the llbrary That 15 what these call numbers are for I was looklng up plants were polsonous and could not be traced And l9E 2 1S has schedule tlmes and I not sure what they mean, my on the bottom Is that your that appears on that? MR GLICK Your Honor, I offer Into evldence 9A, C, an MR WEATHERHEAD Your Honor, I belleve the Court uled on that THE COURT Those be (Government 19, 19A, l9B, 19C, 19D, 19E 1, l9E 2 recelved GLICK I would llke to the How books to the jury, Your Honor THE COURT Proceed Mr are you going to A. Q. . A. YesA. Avalos 761 MR GLICK I wasn golng to do lt at this tlme THE COURT We got to show the jury spend less tlme lf we get all of them at once MR GLICK (Pause ln the jury MR GLICK The partles reached a stlpulatlon how came ln possession of 19E 1 and 2 THE COURT All Ilqht Government 19, serles just to the jury, as well as 20, 20A and 20B the Court we purpose to read the stlpulatlon respect to the 19 serles of THE COURT Right MS HAIMOV Is lt hereby stlpulated and agreed between and by the Unlted States of Amerlca and defendant Sally Anne Croft, also known as Ma Prem Savlta and Susan also known as Ma Anand Su, the followlng statements are factually accurate On or bought September 22, 1985 at Rajneeshpuram, dlStIlCt of Oregon, Special Agent James Russell obtalned one brown Samsonlte sultcase, Unlted States No 19, from Ma Deva Barkha, Chlef of the Rajneeshpuram Peace Force . we MS. HAIMOV: Your Honor, stipulation regarding A. Avalos 762 The brown Samsonite sultcase, No 19, contalned the followlng ltems Four books How to Kill, Volume 1, Unlted States 19A, Volume 2, United States No 19B, Volume 3, Unlted States No l9C, Volume 6, Unlted States No 19D, and a book Without a Trace, Unlted States No 19E That contalned the book entitled Wlthout a Trace, United States No 19E, was one one orange plece of paper, Unlted States No 19E 2 That on or about November 22, 1985, Speclal Agent Russell the brown Samsonlte sultcase, Unlted States No 19, and each of the ltems contalned thereln ln Unlted States No 19A, 19B, 19C, 19E, and 19ESpeclal Agent Buckmelster ln whose custody and control they remained untll October lst, 1985, when they were submitted to the custody and control of the Portland fleld offlce of the FBI And Unlted States 19, 19A, 19B, 19C, 19D l9Esubstantially the same today as they were on September 22, 1985, when Speclal Agent Russell obtalned them from Ma Deva Barker as above Speclal Agent Russell has no lnformatlon that Sally Anne Croft or Susan Hagan possessed, had, saw or yellow piece of paper, United States Exhibit No. l9E-1, and . I A. Avalos 763 knew about Unlted States Nos 19, l9A, 19B, 19C l9D, l9E, l9E 1 or l9E 2 The FBI not test Unlted States Nos 19A, l9B, 19C, 19D l9Ealso hereby stlpulated and agreed the stlpulatlon may be recelved lnto evldence and that counsel for any party the approval of the Court may publish lt to the jury durlng the trlal stlpulatlon lS Slgned by both parties, defendants Croft and Hagan MR GLICK I would like to show the witness Government 14 (By Mr Take a look at Government Tell me lf you recognlze what lt appears to be' The courthouse the map Is that the courthouse that you conducted the to determlne whether Charles Turner would ln or out of lt' Yes Can you please mark on the the Court the locatlons and your the places that you were when you conducted the of Charles Turner MR WEATHERHEAD Your Honor, I object to the of the on Rule 615 grounds, havlng to do the lndependent recollectlon of each wltness, unless A. Avalos 764 the Court has a fresh exhibit for each subsequent witness THE COURT Let do it right now with some yellow stickers, and then we can adjust those But we need to have some way to show where she is marking it in the record MR GLICK Put your initials, a on the number that would correspond to how many places you were I can use the easel, Your Honor THE WITNESS (Complies) I was asking if he wanted me to put where we did surveillance or where we went (By Mr Glick) Where you did surveillance MR GLICK Your Honor, may the record reflect the witness placed her initials on a sticky looks like if I got my directions right east of the courthouse between southwest Madison, Southwest Main, and Southwest Sixth Avenue, is that correct? THE WITNESS Yes MR GLICK She has placed a sticky on the north side of the courthouse, Southwest Main between Southwest Sixth and Broadway, is that correct' THE WITNESS Yes That would be in the parking structure (By Mr Glick) So this second sticky represents Q. . . A. (Indicating) Q. . A. Avalos 765 the structure' Yes Would you put a No 2 on this? (Indlcatlng) And No 1 on the one Were there other locations that you went to around the courthouse ln connectlon that are depleted on Government 14? We went around the block, traveled around the block All right Thank you MR GLICK Your Honor, lt has been to me we can get numerous coples of these ahead and mark lt MR GLICK So we THE COURT If you step over there, ln place of those yellow make your own mark THE WITNESS (Complles) I changed that (By Mr No 1, lS now place where you the surve1llance? The garage And No 2 lS exit to the courthouse, slde? The slde on Sixth Avenue All MR GLICK If I may, Your Honor, I would llke THE COURT: All right. If you can get copiesA. Avalos 766 approach the wltness THE COURT Ye (By Mr You that you were present on ln the area Charles Turner house That lS I would llke you to look at these serles of And there are letters on the back ln the 16 serles If you would of these depict the area that you recall that you conducted on respect to Mr Turner home If I recognize else, just only the ones about Charles Turner s? home 16N looks llke the surrounding Charles Turner home lH Sherwood As well plcture from the whlte Toyota that we were when we went to Charles Turner home Vldya was lS a shot, I belleve, of one of the roads leadlng to the house lS the Toyota or day you use the MaVer1ck? We used the Toyota the day or they second day l6R 15 the road that you go down before you A. . I Q. A. Q. Just with respect to the surveillance of Mr. TurnerA. Avalos 767 turn lS where Charles Turner home lS LS also a dlfferent perspectlve of the same road, 16F 16T seems llke also a dlfferent angle from the road We used the Maverlck the day 16U looks llke part of the road, mallboxes 16W looks llke one of the houses that were along the road to Charles Turner home 16X looks 11ke a side vlew of one of the homes It could actually be Charles Turner home, I not certaln, but lt was one of the houses elther the house or directly next door lS a clear picture of that, 16Z, elther house or nelghbor house That lS all of them Now, you that on the day that you the Vldya was you on one of the Yes ln June MR GLICK At tlme I would llke to play for the wltness Government No 30, a 10 or 15 second videotape, and ask her a questlon respect to Vldya and the stlpulatlon from the parties that occurred June 21, 1985 MR WEATHERHEAD Objectlon at tlme, Your Honor No foundatlon the wltness has seen the A. Avalos 768 to say about lt THE COURT Quallfy MR GLICK I don the vldeo I am golng to ask she was ln the Vld6O when she know lf the has seen lf Vldya was dressed the way went on the The vldeotape was the press conference that took place June 21, 1985 MS SCISSORS Your Honor, there lS absolutely no dlspute as to that lssue There has been testlmony she changed from red 15 lH the vldeo The vldeo adds to that presentatlon MR GLICK all due respect the tape lt would be very clear respect to the wltness THE COURT Okay I am qOlHg to ask the jurors to step out for a mlnute (Jury out) MR GLICK Your Honor, the Government posltlon, lS not unduly cumulatlve If to wltness would 15 not the way Vldya was lH when they went on the And the PIQVLOUS testlmony was from Mr Knapp presence at the conference and A. Avalos 769 it does add to the testimony, lt adds to the story of what happened Vldya 1S one of the defendants and went on the surveillance, and this witness has already to Vldya changing her clothes and present at the press conference and how she was that Vldya, personally so up ln the hierarchy would go on the surveillance Here you have Vldya making statement and then testifying And lS to add to wltness testlmony and the date ln tlm? I ll be asking her a June 21, what lS the day you got there, what lS the day you went on with Vldya THE COURT I don know why you can do that wlthout showing the vldeo agaln MR GLICK Because there has been no testimony from Mr Knapp when we show the vldeo that Vldya went on the surveillance wearlng changed case adds to lS the the the not This shows the ]ury that Vldya was red clothes and witness has she mean, we have the obllgatlon to present our jury, which we accept that burden, but and lt will that how Vldya was There lS no testimony on the record other . I series of questions afterwards as to establish that A. Avalos 770 than her OIlglHa1 testlmony that she was not wearlng the sannyasln clothes shows Vldya ln dlfferent clothes and she changed THE COURT I d1dn't hear any dlspute about that from elther defendant Am I MR WEATHERHEAD My understanding Vldya lS not here MS SCISSORS It stlpulated the press conference occurred on the 21st THE COURT She was wearlng are you stlpulatlng she was wearlng red at tlm?g MS SCISSORS It lH the vldeo GLICK Why don we show the vldeo? THE COURT Are you golng to refute that? WEATHERHEAD The lS ln evldence THE COURT I reallze lt lS ln evldence The lS whether or not we are agreelng that Vldya lS ln that ln red and later changes lht0 whatever want to call lt, muffle MR WEATHERHEAD Muffle lS probably a good word I don know lf the Court lS a stlpulatlon on that I really don't care The wltness has to lt There any source of lHf0Im&tlOH to COHtIadlCt lt other than MR . 2 . MS. SCISSORS: Absolutely not. MR. . We II 1| A. Avalos 771 maybe the other people who were ln the car Certalnly, are not ln a pOSltlOD to what Vldya was wearlng But I the ultlmate polnt lS the vldeo doesn't get you there All the vldeo shows lS Vldya wearlng red clothes The jury has seen that The Vldeo does not she changed her clothes cumulatlve and and more MR GLICK There lS no testlmony ln the record that Vldya was wearlng the sannyasln I a vldeo to audlo portlon about the and how lt was changed THE COURT I can she was there at that press conference MR GLICK She wasn at the press conference She was there after the press conference when Vldya got ln the car The questlon 15, the lS, lS not how Vldya was when she went on Vldya had gotten out of these clothes Vldya on that day at that tlme I don hear them stlpulatlng these are the sannyasln clothes that Vldya wore She wasn wearlng them at the tlme of the THE COURT lS the last tlme I am golng to show the vldeo If you don want to use lt somewhere, you better save ltA. Avalos 772 MR GLICK No, lS lt THE COURT All right the jury ln (Jury ln) THE COURT Ladles and gentlemen, lS one that you have already seen once It lS already lH evldence It lS now belng used for wltness And so you go ahead and show lt agaln MR GLICK If the Court could turn on the Helgln monltor If I may THE COURT Can all jurors see that' Walt minute Are you havlng d1ffLculty? THE WITNESS I can see through MR GLICK If you would watch the televlslon monitor dlrectly behlnd or the one ln front, Government 30 (By Mr opportunlty to watch played' Yes Yes And Red And (Videotape played Ms Avalos, you have an Government 30 as lt was you see the that was worn by Vldy what of clothing was that' was that that Vldya wore when she went A. Avalos 773 the surveillance with you? What kind of clothing was she wearing' She was wearing non sannyasin colored clothing Is the date of this press conference June 21, 1985? When did you first arrive in Portland to begin the surveillance? Two or three days before that Two definitely, maybe three And how many days did you remain in Portland after this press conference? We went back to the ranch that same day, that evening earlier that you actually saw the firearms which Anugiten had shown you, is that correct? That is correct I would like to show you Government Exhibits 10, ll, 12 Were you present or did you hear any discussion about what happened to these firearms' We were leaving the ranch Anugiten told me that he had thrown them into the lake I want to show you an portrait, Government Exhibit 5 in evidence I ask you to take that look at this and see if you recognize this Yes That looks like Patanjali Lake All right. Now, you indicated on direct examination A. Avalos 774 If anywhere Anuglten where he had thrown the guns' He tell me where In the lake, ln Patanjall referred to them as flve easy All And where did He just sald he threw them say the guns pleces that name derlve from' I have no ldea Now, you earller there came a tlme when Davld when came and asked you for a camera, LS that That lS the Court permission, I want to show you Governments No 22 I ask you to open that up and look 1ns1de your attention to 22 A, what you recognize lt to be' 15 one of the cameras that we had, one llke the Any that you No, the same All one I would have glven dlfferences between camera and the camera gave to 9 not that I remember It looked pretty type of camera I want to dlrect your attention, th Court to Governments 26, and ask you to take a look at that Do you recognlze thatright A. Avalos 775 Yes, I do What do you recognlze lt to be? It a plcture of Su, Patlpada, Savlta, Su, Sheela communal meetlng Do you recognlze by the depletion of any of the people when ln tlme this plcture was taken' Well, my guess lS lt was ln the summer because Savlta had her halred permed And Savlta permed her halr that summer MR Excuse me I guess I have object because lt was a guess THE COURT Sustalned you spend Savlta ln the summer of 1985, when approxlmately she had her halr permed? Well, lt was that summer she permed her halr Is that depleted ln Government 36? Yes What was her halr before that' Stralght, llke lt lS now And you recall partlcular meet1ng? It seemed llke I remember I was at lt, but I not completely sure why I have a feellng lt was when Bhagwan declded to talk agaln I don know for sure You are uncertaln as to the subject matter (By Mr. Glick) Do you know, based on your time that meeting' A. Avalos 776 That lS I know I had been to this meeting What would have been the clrcumstances for Savlta and Su to be next to Sheela at the front of that aud1tor1um? MR WEATHERHEAD Objectlon, Your Honor foundation I the wltness sald she has no recollectlon THE COURT GLICK GLICK meetlng THE COURT MR GLICK (By Mr meetlng? Yes Sustalned It a dlfferent question Not the subject matter of the I understand, sustained Thank you You recall belng present at Do you recall the person ln front of the audltorlum being depleted ln that p1cture? Yes And who were these people ln front of the audltorlum? . Vldya, Sheela, Savlta, Patlpada and Su What are the clrcumstances that led them to be next to Sheela as opposed to yourself or any other THE COURT: I understandA. Avalos 777 sannyz-1s1n'P Maklng some sort of announcement MR GLICK Offer that MR WEATHERHEAD Move to Objection to that, 1t's what lS to the witness may not be obvlous to the next person MR GLICK We can do next, at a later time THE COURT All right MR GLICK We move to 8 9 10 11 12 Your Honor, 1f I may I ask that Agent McCann take out the flrearms and them to the THE COURT Yes that I No 8 All right Take a look at that I want to show them to you one at a tlme and ask you a questlon after you have seen all flve ay 9 Take a look at that (Complles) Number 10 Okay 11 And No Based upon your examlnatlon of Government 9, 10, 11, 12, lS there about any of these . . I I I I Q. (By Mr. Glick) Indicate for the record what exhibit isA. Avalos 778 weapons, these firearms that you recognlze as to the tlme that you see them Anug1ten? Well, obvlously they are very rusty, but what I remember about seeing the guns was that one had a long barrel like number I lt No 10 here Just speak Into the microphone One of the guns had longer barrels than the rest and one had a smaller barrel, the small one Llke that one So those are the two that I remember ln relatlon to the five One had a longer barrel and one was short The other three All All right Thank you MR GLICK Thank you, Agent McCann (By Mr Now, your attentlon to Aprll of 1990, there come a tlme when you returned to Mr Turner home' (No response) Aprll of 1990, there come a tlme when you returned to Mr Turner home' Yes What were the clrcumstances of that' The Government asked me to accompany Agent McCann to resldence, lf I could where he llved A. A. Q. . A. I can't rememberA. Avalos 779 And how was it that you got to that residence? Hadley drove to Sherwood to close to the area where Charlie Turner lived And then what happened' Then he says, Can you tell me how to get to Charles Turner house from here, and I told him What happened' We went there Did you get to Mr Turner home" Yes, we did them to you' I gave them to him I would like to show 18A through these, and by the letter on the back and tell me if you can identify any of these 18A is one of the houses on that would be as you turn right to go down to It the same as the black and white one and it either home or the neighbor Take a look at the exhibit number you turn that Charles Turner ltself in color home This blue house on Exhibit 18B is also one of the houses along the road I not sure whether either of them could be Charles Turner home They are along the road 8 looks like the mailboxes that we finally . . Did you give Agent McCann directions or did he give A. Avalos 780 found that led us to home Sorry, 18C The numbers on the back 18D lS a color plcture of the road leadlng to Charles Turner home before you turn to go down the And 18E lS a the same shot, but I taken hack a so there lS more brush and trees that are showlng Thank you There lS one more, l8F, lS also the the property home, I am pretty sure Thank you earller on dlrect examlnatlon that you attended approxlmately a year and a half at Berkeley before you became ln the commune After all of was over, you ever go back to school' After I got out of jall, I went back to school Tell the ladles and gentlemen of the jury what you are dolng now I declded to go back to school I recelved an undergraduate I got my major ln dance and phllosophy I currently a graduate student and a thESlS on the of movement ln health and And I taught dance and movements I dlrect and teach And finally, Ms. Avalos, you indicated A. . . . A. . A. Avalos 781 teenagers I put myself through school I have been dolng that for the last seven years Does that mean you work at teenagers What does that mean' on probatlon or have been on probatlon as the out of jall I teach at the as an undergraduate student Generally what do you mean you put yourself through school? Well, I worked Whlle I have been golng to school I have been and put myself through school THE COURT All right Ladles and gentlemen, we be lH recess for 20 mlnutes (Recess) (Recess) THE COURT Ms Scissors MS SCISSORS Thank you CROSS EXAMINATION BY MS SCISSORS Ms Avalos, when you left the ranch on September 14, 1985, the concept of leavlng was that you dlscussed for some tlme wasn lt' A few weeks beforehand Q. . A. Q. A. . MR. GLICK: Thank you. No further questionsA. Avalos 782 Well, isn it true that in early August, 1985, Sheela had talked about two plans for the ranch, Plan A and Plan Yeah, that And under what she called Plan A, she was golng to try and have all the people put thelr resumes together' I don remember I know they were Plan A and Plan And one plan was about people golng off together But I don remember necessarlly a resume together, no Under one plan she was golng to have people who were on the commune go off the commune and work jobs to money back lHtO the ranch, lS that right' That correct? One plan was to leave, go to Europe, and the other one was to stay on the commune And the plan that talked about golng to Europe was the plan where she was golng to take people with her to Europe and they were golng to start up a buslness ln Europe that would generate Income for Rajneeshpuram, 15 that Ilght9 MR GLICK Objection to the questlon THE COURT Let break lt down I realize lt a ClaIlflCatlOH Break lt down (By Ms One plan Sheela had ln August Well, wasn't there there were two plans; is that