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From: =1 :}r1 behalf of Ed Boyden Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:41 AM To: Jeffrey Epstein Subject: Re: Thanks I agree we need a top-down! Two thoughts: -- Yes, developing mapping circuit technology and then applying it to simple behaviors -- hard wired aversive stuff -- is indeed a way to go. As we plan out these mapping technologies, we're actually beginning experiments to map out these aversive things too. We are collaborating with many groups along these lines. We need to finish the fundamental technology building so that we can obtain maps at the right level, and then we can acquire datasets that are compatible with top-down theory, to be sure. -- Another way to think top-down is to work our way inwards, from the observables. We know that behavior -- movement, speech, other action -- is observable; if a feeling or thought is prominent enough, it will be manifest through these channels as an observable. Thus we can also try to infer internal states by their effects on observables, and then to associate neural activity with these internal states and observables. In theory this should scale to arbitrarily complex internal states, not just simple aversive states. Best, Ed On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 11:24 AM, Jeffrey Epstein <[email protected]> wrote: > i think you need a top down as well as bottom up. as looking at my piano > while being played, i can go string by string ( not string theory > strings). hammer by hammer, material of string , molecular interaction > naturalvibration, harmonics, sympathtice vibration but i would not hear > or understand the melody or music being played. I believe that each > individual has its own encrpytion algorithm, as the neural net grows > it encrypts some input signals. some are hard wired. so instead of > emotion , movement, speech, etc, I think a proitable area of initail inquiry should > be the hard wired aversive stuff only. smell of dead meat. . reaction > to fire. i tihnk that aesthectics will be the greatest ration of output to > input. . or the least energy to decode. . dissonance, cannot be easily > resolved so the energy to decode the information, is too high and becomes > painful. Does a dream state come upon us, or do we dream all the time > and concious state relegates the dreams to behind the screen. When sleep > deprived the dreams begin to pop through the screen, as hallucinations. > a breakdown of the screen , results in a form of schizphrenia, where > they cann no longer distiguish between voices. dream produced while awake or the > awake state angel on the shoulder whispering. . I am an avid funder of > the bleeding edge in many fields. keep me up to date on what you are > doing, and hope to see you in your own habitat. > On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 11:04 AM, Ed Boyden < > wrote: » Hi Jeffrey, >> EFTA_R1_01737441 EFTA02569904 » Yes, it was great chatting about all the ways neuroengineering is » going to go in the coming years, revealing both fundamental » mechanistic brain maps, and providing the control knobs for fixing » brain disorders and understanding complex phenomena like » consciousness. Would be great to talk about how then to make » mathematical sense of these maps and control knobs... arguably the » big stumbling block to date is the lack of good data, but that's » about to change, thanks to our current and future efforts! Then we » will have many things that require deep mathematics to understand! » Ed » On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 1:16 AM, Joi Ito >» Hi Jeffrey. >>> >» Thanks for a really enjoyable conversation and your hospitality tonight. >» Look forward to connecting again and receiving you at the Media Lab >» on my turf. ;-) >> > >» - Joi » > » -- » Ed Boyden, Ph. D. » Leader, Synthetic Neurobiology Group » Associate Professor, MIT Media Lab and McGovern Institute, » Departments of Biological Engineering and Brain and Cognitive » Sciences Benesse Chair, New York Stem Cell Foundation-Robertson » Investigator, and Paul Allen Distinguished Investigator MIT, Room » E1S-421, 20 Ames St., Cambridge, MA 02139 office - » cell - fax » skype - web - http://syntheticneurobiology.org twitter - » http://twitter.com/eboyden3 wrote: > The information contained in this communication is confidential, may > be attorney-client privileged, may constitute inside information, and > is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of > Jeffrey Epstein Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this > communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be > unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please > notify us immediately by return e-mail or by e-mail to > [email protected], and destroy this communication and all copies > thereof, including all attachments. copyright -all rights reserved 2 EFTA_R1_01737442 EFTA02569905 Ed Boyden, Ph. D. Leader, Synthetic Neurobiology Group Associate Professor, MIT Media Lab and McGovern Institute, Departments of Biological Engineering and Brain and Cognitive Sciences Benesse Chair, New York Stem Cell Foundation-Robertson Investigator, and Paul Allen Distinguished Investigator MIT, Room E15-421, 20 Ames St., Cambridge, MA 02139 office email - eb - http://syntheticneurobiology.org twitter - http://twitter.com/eboyden3 <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-B"?> <!DOCTYPE plist PUBLIC "-//Apple//DTD PLIST 1.0//EN" "http://www.apple.com/DTDs/PropertyList-1.0.dtd"> <plist version="1.0"> <dict> <key>conversation-idgkey> <integer>255311</integer> <key>date-last-viewed</key> <integer>0</integer> <key>date-received</key> <integer>1369737680</integer> <key>flags</key> <integer>8590195713</integer> <key>gmail-label-ids</key> <array> <integer>6</integer> <integer>2</integer> </array> <key>remote-id</key> <string>30S661</string> </dict> </plist> 3 EFTA_R1_01737443 EFTA02569906