EFTA00009586

Transcript April 24, 2007 f LA- Si' oQ n st i scat `v 1 &cmJvWS CONFIDENTIAL MM20-GJ TESTIMONY-O00368 3501.182-031 Pagc I of 35 EFTA00009586 I 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA RE: OPERATION LEAP YEAR TESTIMONY, Federal Grand Jury 07-103 Federal Building U.S. Courthouse West Palm Beach, Florida Tuesday, April 24, 2007 APPEARANCES: roreperson OFFICIAL REPORTING SERVICE, LIC. (954) 467-8204. . CONFIDENTIAL 1 MM20-OJ TESTIMONY-000389 3501.182-031 Page 2 of 35 EFTA00009587 • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2 The sworn testimony of was taken before the Federal Grand Jury, West Palm Beach Division, Federal Building, U.S. Courthouse, Palm Beach County, State of Florida, on'Tuesday, April 24, 2007. Paula E. Angelocci, Certified Court Reporter and Notary Public, State of Florida, Official Reporting Service, LLC, 524 South Andrews Avenue, Suite 302N, Fort Lauderdale, Florida, 33301, was authorized to and did report the sworn testimony. OFFICIAL REPORTING SERVICE, LLC (954) 467-8204 CONFIDENTIAL MM20-GJ TESTIMONY-000370 3501.182-031 Page 3 of35 EFTA00009588 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (Witness enters the Grand Jury Room.) THE FOREPERSON: You do solemnly swear that the testimony you give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? THE WITNESS: I do. THE FOREPERSON: Thank you. Please be seated. EXAMINATION BY III Q Good afternoon, Ms. . Could you state and spell your name for the record? A And where do you currently live? A I live -- do you want me to give the address? Q Sure. ,'West Palm Beach, Florida 33412. Q Okay. And you are living with your parents now? A Yes. Q Were you served with a subpoena to appear before the grand jury today? A Yes. CONFIDENTIAL 3 OFFICIAL REPORTING SERVICE, LLC (954) 167-8204 MM20-GJ TESTIMONY-000371 3501.182-031 Page 4 of 35 EFTA00009589 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q And do you understand that an order was signed by a judge compelling you to appear and answer questions? A Yes. Q And that order states that what you tell the grand jury won't be used against unless you perjure yourself? A Yes. Q Do you understand that you are under oath, and if you don't tell the truth -- A I can go to jail, yes. Q Okay. Let's start with where you went to high school. A Q How old are you today? A Twenty-one. Q And what is your date of birth? A .Q What year did you graduate from A 2004. Q And where are you currently working? A I currently am not working. Q But you are A OFFICIAL REPORTING SERVICE, LLC (954) 467-8204 CONFIDENTIAL MM204J TESTIMONY-000372 3501.182-031 Pagc 5 of 35 EFTA00009590 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q Where will that be? A Fort Lauderdale, Coral Springs. Q What type of position will that be? A Q Have you worked since the time that you graduated from high school? A Uh-huh. Q Can you tell the grand jury what type of jobs you have had? A I worked at worked in a club up in Orlando as as well. I have also worked at a sports bar as a waitress. Q when you were in high school, where did you work? A and ▪ And do you know Jeffrey Epstein? A Yes, I do.. Q Can you tell the grand jury how you first came to meet Mr. Epstein? A I met Epstein through two acquaintances, and , and I met them at a beach resort. They made a proposition to me. Later then I picked them up and they gave me directions to the house and that's where I was formerly introduced CONFIDENTIAL 5 OFFICIAL REPORTING SERVICE, LLC (954) 467-8204 MM20-GJ TESTIMONY-000373 3501.182-031 Page 6 of 35 EFTA00009591 6 1 2 3 4' 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to Mr. Epstein. Q . Okay. And Let me just go back over that a little bit. You mentioned that you had two acquaintances, and , and you met them at a beach resort, correct? A Yes. Q And you said that they made a proposition to you. What was that exactly? A had asked me if I wanted to make money and she was working for this guy, Epstein, in Palm Beach. So I told her I was interested and she further went into detail about massaging him, that you would have to take off articles of clothing and there would be touching and fondling involved. Q How old were you when this happened? A About 16. Q And how old was A Same age. Q And how did you know MIF A We went to together. Q And she was in your same grade in high school? A Yeah. Q And you mentioned that had OFFICIAL REPORTING SERVICE, LLC (954) 467-8204 CONFIDENTIAL MM20-GJ TESTIMONY-000374 3501.182-031 Page 7 of 35 EFTA00009592 ( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 previously worked for Epstein or was currently working for Epstein? A Yes, that's right. Q So they explained this proposal to you and you said that you would be interested? A Yes. Q What happened next? A Within a couple of days to a week I picked them up and I went to his house to work for him and I was introduced to , who is his assistant. She took me upstairs to Epstein's bedroom and that's where the massage took place. I was naked and he tried fondling me and I wouldn't have it, so after the massage he gave me another proposition to bring girls to the house and for every girl that I brought I would make $200. Q All right. We'll go back over that a little more slowly. I know this is a lot of information. So let's go back to the proposition that and made to you. Did they say you would be paid for massaging Mr. Epstein? A Yes. Q And how much would you be paid? OFFICIAL REPORTING SERVICE, LLC (954) 467-8204 CONFIDENTIAL MM20-GJ TESTIMONY-000375 3501.182-031 Pagc 8 of 35 EFTA00009593 8 1 2 3 4 S 6 7 a 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A $200. Q Now you said that they had told you that you might have to take your clothing off? A They told me that I was expected to take my clothing off and that there would be fondling. Q Okay. And what -- did they explain what fondling meant? A Just that he'd be touching me. Q Okay. And so you agreed to do that and you went to Mr. Epstein's home? A Correct. Q And where was that located? A Palm Beach, Brillo Way. Q B-R-I-L-L-O? A Yes. Q And when you arrived at the home, you said that you were driving with and IIII? A That is correct. Q Tell us how you got into the house. A We went through a gate on the side of the house that led to the back and we just rang the doorbell and answered the door and we were standing in the kitchen and then brought me upstairs. Q Okay. Now did you have any -- did OFFICIAL REPORTING SERVICE, LLC (954) 467-8204 CONFIDENTIAL NIM20-GJ TESTIMONY-OOO376 3501.182-031 Page 9 of 35 EFTA00009594 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 tell you anything about what you would do when you got upstairs? A No, she never discussed that with me. Q Did she say anything to you about taking your clothes off? A No, she never discussed that with me. Q Okay. When you arrived upstairs, you said that you went into a bedroom? A That is correct. • Q What was in the bedroom? A It was a bedroom that had a door that led to then I want to say a bigger more than just a bathroom. It was a bigger room with like a pretty large size walk-in closet, a shower, a steam shower, and then two sinks. on the right, and in the middle laid the massage table, and then to the left there was two couches. Q And so the massage table was already set up when you arrived? A That is correct. Q Okay. And after bedroom, what did she do? led you up to the A She had left and that's when Epstein came in. Q Okay. And when Mr. Epstein came in, OFFICIAL REPORTING SERVICE, LLC (954) 467-8204 CONFIDENTIAL MM20-GJ TESTIMONY-000377 3501.182-031 Page 10 of 35 EFTA00009595 10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 what was he wearing? A He was wearing a towel. Q Okay. And nothing else? A Nothing else. Q And what did he do? A He laid on the table and that's when the massage began and later on he -- when he got in, I took off my clothes and I was just wearing my bottoms, and he later tried to touch me and he grabbed my butt, and that's when. I had a problem. I told him that I didn't feel comfortable. So later he took the towel off and he was laying on his back and he asking me to and then after that everything was done. Q Okay. So when Mr. Epstein then the massage or whatever was over? A Yes, it was. Q And once that happened, what did he do? A Just got up and dried himself off and then walked me downstairs. Q And you got dressed as well? A That's right. Q And when you got back downstairs, what OFFICIAL REPORTING SERVICE, LLC (954) 467-8204 CONFIDENTIAL MM20-GJ TESTIMONY-000378 3501.182-031 Page 11 of 35 EFTA00009596 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 happened? A I went back into the kitchen and he pulled and aside and then we just left. Of course, I got paid. Q Okay. And tell us where you got paid, who paid you, and how much you received? A Epstein paid me. I received 200, but I cannot recall if it was upstairs that he paid me or if he waited until I got back downstairs. Q Okay. And when he paid you the $200, was it in small bills, large bills? A Big bills, 100s. Q Okay. So two 100 dollar bills. And you said that he pulled and aside. Do you know what that was about? A He would never pay them in front of me. He always was funny about that. So I'm sure it was just paying them for bringing me. Q Okay. And you mentioned that you told Mr. Epstein that you were uncomfortable with him touching you? A That's correct. Q And what bec.ame of that? A Later on before I left he had addressed me to not massage him anymore, but asked me if I OFFICIAL REPORTING SERVICE, LLC (954) 467-8204 CONFIDENTIAL MM20-GJ TESTIMONY-000379 3501.182-031 Page 12 of 35 EFTA00009597 12 1 2 3 could bring girls over, and for every girl that I brought to the table he would pay me $200. • Q Okay. So you weren't comfortable with 4 him touching you, so you weren't going to do any 5 more massages? 6 A No. 7 Q He wanted you to find other girls? 8 A That's correct. 9 Q And he wanted girls that would let him 10 touch them? 11 A Uh-huh. • 12 Q After that first massage, did you 13 perform any other massages at his house? 14 A Absolutely not.. 15 Q Did you bring girls? 16 A That's correct. 17 Q Tell us how you started to bring girls 18 to Mr. Epstein's house. 19 A Just girls that I met in high school, 20 acquaintances, people that I just said hi and bye 21 to. A lot of them actually heard about it through 22 a couple of girls that I brought and they were 23 interested. 24 Some of the girls asked me about it. 25 Just girls in school I'd talk to, just get on the OFFICIAL REPORTING SERVICE, LLC (954) 467-8204 CONFIDENTIAL MM20-GJ TESTIMONY-000380 3501.182-031 Page 13 of 35 EFTA00009598 13 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 subject. They had no problem with it. Q Okay. So when you found a girl that you thought would be interested, what exactly would you tell her? A I asked them if they were interested in making extra money and that I knew an older wealthier man in Palm Beach who liked to have massages and they would get paid $200. The more they did, the more they make, and I would explain to them in detail what was expected of them when they showed up at the house and I also told them that if they are under age just lie about it and tell him that you are 18 Q Let's talk first about what you said that you tell them what was expected of them. A Yes. Q First of all, why did you tell them that? A Because that's what I was told O By whom? A and Q Okay. And did Jeffrey Epstein ever address you about don't bring girls over here if they don't know what's going to happen? A Absolutely. OFFICIAL REPORTING SERVICE, LLC (954) 467-8204 CONFIDENTIAL MM20-GJ TESTIMONY-000381 3501.182-031 Page 14 of 35 EFTA00009599 14 1 Q Okay. So all the girls were supposed to 2 know that when they got there they would be 3 undressing? 4 A They would be undressing. There would 5 be. touching. There would be fondling. He was 6 very big on that. He told me never to bring a 7 girl over unless they knew what was expected. 8 Q Okay. And did you also tell them that 9 he would 10 A I didn't really talk to them about that. 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I didn't know if he did it with everybody or it was just with me that he did that. Q But you told them that they all would have to be partially naked or fully naked? A Partially to fully naked and there would be touching and fondling. Q Okay. How many girls do you think you took to Mr. Epstein's house? A Seven, between seven to ten. Q Okay. And were there any -- in addition to this rule about the girls had to know what was expected, did Mr. Epstein have any other rules in terms of what the girls looked like or what he liked? A No. OFFICIAL REPORTING SERVICE, LLC (954) 467-8204 CONFIDENTIAL MNI20-GJ TESTIMONY-000382 3501.1g2-031 Pagc 15 of 35 EFTA00009600 15 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q Okay. Were there girls that you brought that he didn't like? A There were a few girls he wasn't crazy about. He didn't really like. He didn't favor. for instance, 23, he thought she was kind of too old. Q Okay. So you brought a girl named who was 23 years old? A Yes. Q And you were told that she was too old? A Yes. Q Did you ever bring her back? A No. Q What about any other girls that he didn't like? A This other girl T went to high school with, III, she was maybe a year younger, and him and her got . I told her in detail what was expected and she, to me, was all for it and then when she got there, decided she didn't want to perform what was necessary. So they got and after that I never really brought her Q Okay. And did either Jeffrey Epstein CONFIDENTIAL OFFICIAL REPORTING SERVICE, LLC (954) 467-8204 MM20-GJ TESTIMONY-000383 3501.182-031 Page 16 of 35 EFTA00009601 16 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 or say anything to you about what happened with III? A He had made a comment just about had asked -- he had asked me for someone to come over and work and when I suggested III, he kind of nodded, not really interested. He told me to find somebody else. So I assumed that meant he really didn't care for her. Q Okay. Now the -- you mentioned who was 23. What was the age range of the other girls that you brought to Mr. Epstein's home? A High school, 16 to 18. Q Were there any girls who were younger than that? A Yes. Q A Q And how was she? A' She was 14. Who was that? Q Okay. Now you were interviewed by the Palm Beach Police Department? A That's correct. Q And during that interview, you told them that there were two ways to make money with Jeffrey Epstein. Can you explain to the grand OFFICIAL REPORTING SERVICE, LLC (954) 467-8204 CONFIDENTIAL MM20-GJ TESTIMONY-000384 3501.182-031 Page 17 of 35 EFTA00009602 17 2 3 4 6 7 a 9 10 1 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 jury what those two ways are? A The more you did is the more you make. Basically, the more clothes that come off, the more you let him touch you, the more you just let him have his way with you is the more that you would make, otherwise, you would be demoted down to bringing girls over and just making money that way. Q And that's what you were doing? A That's correct. Q Was bringing girls? A That's correct. Q If you could explain to the grand jury how you would go about making an appointment for a girl to come and give a massage? A His assistant there would call me either before they got into town or while he was in town and either she would ask me for a particular girl, preferably one that he favored, or if I couldn't get a hold of that girl just bring somebody over to work. I would call the girl. She would okay it. I would call back, confirm it, set an appointment, and then the next couple of days we'd go. OFFICIAL REPORTING SERVICE, LLC (954) 467-8204 CONFIDENTIAL MM20-GJ TESTIMONY-000305 3501.182-031 Page 18 of 35 EFTA00009603 18 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q And was the person that you always made the appointment with? A Always. • Do you remember ever talking to Jeffrey Epstein on the telephone? A Never. The only time I talked to him was physically in person at his house. • Okay. was really the person that you had to•-- A Deal with. Q Okay. Now you mentioned that sometimes would request a specific girl? A That's correct. Q Did she give you any reason why he really liked this girl or just is this girl available? What would happen on those calls? A If it was a specific girl, she would call me and just ask: Can this girl work? She would never give me a reason. She would never go into detail. It was just: Can she work, yes or no? work? Q And was saying to you can she A I can't recall if those were her exact words. I can't remember if it•was: Can she come OFFICIAL REPORTING SERVICE, LLC (954) 467-8204 • CONFIDENTIAL MM20-GJ TESTIMONY-OOO386 3501.182-031 Pagc 19 of 35 EFTA00009604 19 1 over and massage or can she work? / don't recall 2 the exact words. 3 Q Okay. And once you made those 4 appointments then who would normally take you and 5 the girls to the house? 6 A I would. 7 Q Okay. And you would drive? 8 A I would drive. 9 Q And were all -- wa's this always taking 10 place at Mr. Epstein's home? 11 A Yes. 12 Q On Brillo Way? 13 A That's correct. 14 Q When you spoke with on the 15 telephone, did you were all of these 16 conversations about setting up these appointments/ 17 A when I would talk to 18 Q Yes. 19 A Yes. It would be pure business whenever 20 I talked to 21 Q So you didn't have any sort of friendly 22 relationship? 23 A No friendly relationship, never 24 socialized unless I was at the house. It wasn't 25 like that at all. OFFICIAL REPORTING SERVICE, LLC (954) 467-8204 CONFIDENTIAL MM20-GJ TESTIMONY-000387 3501.182.031 Page 20 of 35 EFTA00009605 20 1 Q Okay. Now when you would bring a new 2 girl over to the house, what would you do? 3 A Walk up the same way towards the back of 4 the house. They would let us in. I could sit in '5 the kitchen with the girl. I would either wait 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 for to come in or Jeffrey. Most of the time it was would bring the girl upstairs while I waited downstairs. After the massage, the girl would come downstairs. I would get paid and then we would leave. Q Tell us how you would get paid when you were the person who brought the girls. A What do you mean how I would get paid? Q Who would pay you? A Jeffrey Epstein would pull me aside whether it be in his, I guess, living room slash office. He would just make sure that when he paid me, it was just me and him, nobody else was around. • And how much would you get paid for each girl? A $200- Q And again with the two 100 dollar bills? A Always 100 dollar bills. OFFICIAL REPORTING SERVICE, LLC (954) 467-8204 CONFIDENTIAL MM20-GJ TESTIMONY-000388 3501.182-031 Pap 21 of 35 EFTA00009606 21 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q Did you ever see the girl who actually did the massages get paid? A No, I never saw them get paid. He never paid us in front of each other Q Okay. Did the girls ever tell you that they did get paid or how much they got paid? A Most of the time. Q Okay. And how much money would each girl get paid? A It ranges. Q From? A It ranges from 200 to some got paid 300. Like I said, the more you do, the more you make. There were a couple of girls that got paid 300, 400, and then there were a couple of girls that got paid 200 maybe even 100. Q Now you mentioned that usually would take the girl upstairs? A That's correct. Q Were there ever instances where you took the girl upstairs? A Very rarely. I think it happened once or twice where was doing something or she would need me to go upstairs and set up. I would just go upstairs. I would show her where the OFFICIAL REPORTING SERVICE, LLC (954) 467-8204 CONFIDENTIAL MM20-GJ TESTIMONY-000389 3501.182.031 Page 22 of 35 EFTA00009607 22 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 .13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 massage table was. I would set it up for them. I would show them where the towels were, put the towels on the massage table and then I would tell them Jeffrey would be in, in a minute and then I would walk back downstairs and wait in the kitchen. Q Okay. And when you were in these other instances where you led the girl upstairs, besides the massage table, did you ever see any other implements that were used during the massage? A I think there were maybe a few occasions where I would walk upstairs to show the girl or maybe it was even when I first massaged him, there was like a white jury? on the table or a white Q And can you describe that to the grand A What it looked like? Q What it looked like, yes. A The the top of it was It was like a . It was really . It was white. I think maybe like pink. It was that's all I remember. Q Okay. And did any of the girls ever tell you that that OFFICIAL REPORTING SERVICE, LLC (954) 467-8204 CONFIDENTIAL NIM20-GJ TESTIMONY-000390 3501.182-031 Page 23 of 35 EFTA00009608 23 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 OFFICIAL REPORTING SERVICE, LLC (954) 467-8204 Q Okay. Now I'm going to run through the names of some girls that you brought just to confirm with the grand jury that you brought them. A Okay. A That's correct. Q A Correct. A Correct. Q A Yes. A Yes. Q A Yes. Q And then there is another girl, A never, ever, ever worked for Jeffrey. She accompanied me to his house I think once or twice and waited in the kitchen with me, but she never worked for him. Q Okay. But she was somebody that you brought along with you? CONFIDENTIAL MM20-GJ TESTIMONY-000391 3501.182.031 Page 24 of 35 EFTA00009609 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A That is correct. Q On visits? A Yes. Q Okay. In addition to those girls that -- who I just named, you mentioned a woman, , who is 23? A Uh-huh. Q Were there any other girls that you recall bringing to Jeffrey Epstein's house? A I cannot recall bringing anybody else. Q Okay. Now one of those girls that we mentioned .was correct? A Yes. Q And you told the police that Jeffrey liked the best? A Yes. Q How old was A She was around the same age as me, maybe a grade lower than me. Q Okay. So she was under age? A Yes, correct. Q And all of those girls who names I read were under age when you brought them there? A Except for • Okay. What did look like? OFFICIAL REPORTING SERVICE, LLC (954) 467-8204 CONFIDENTIAL MM20-GJ TESTIMONY-000392 3501.182-031 Page 25 of 35 EFTA00009610 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A was . She kind of looks but she's , maybe. She had a . She had Q Was she thin or heavy? A No. She was maybe -- she had a figure, maybe a little than me. Q And how tall do you think she was? A About 5'5, 5'6. Q Okay. And you knew that Jeffrey liked because he would specifically request her? A There was a few occasions that he would specifically ask for her, correct. Q Okay. And you mentioned that some of the girls told you about the correct? A Yes. Q Did some of girls tell you what happened inside of that bedroom? A A few of them did. Q Let's talk first about A Okay. Q Did she tell you what happened? A All that she really told me was that they got into . He had tried CONFIDENTIAL OFFICIAL REPORTING SERVICE, LLC (954) 467-8204 MM20-GJ TESTIMONY-000393 3501.182-031 Page 26 of 35 EFTA00009611 26 ) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 fondling her. She wasn't having it, and then she only got paid $100 and she felt like she was being ripped off. Q Okay. What about , did she tell you about what happened? A Yes. Q What did she explain to you? A , on the way home, had told me she got paid $300, and basically let him and Q Okay. And she told you those things? A She told me those things. Q That he had and had ? A That's correct. Q Okay. And that was -- when did she tell you that? A Right when we got outside into the truck. Q As you were driving away? A That's correct. Q Do you remember which other girls told you about the A I can't recall. I know there was another one that said something about the OFFICIAL REPORTING SERVICE, LLC (954) 467-8204 CONFIDENTIAL MM20-GJ TESTIMONY-000394 3501.182-031 Page 27 of 35 EFTA00009612 27 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 massager, but I wasn't really paying attention. Q Now when you first went and gave Mr. Epstein the massage, did he ask for your telephone number after you were finished? A No, did. did. And she took down your telephone number? A She took down my name and my telephone number. • After that, how was all contact made with you? A • Directly to you? A Directly toward me. Q Okay. So were there any more instances where she went either through or to reach you? A Absolutely not. Q Okay. Now when you brought girls over was it the same thing where they would ask for the girl's name and number? A Yes. Q And when that happened, would they continue to go through you to set up appointments? A Most of time they went through me. OFFICIAL REPORTING SERVICE, LLC (954) 467-8204 CONFIDENTIAL MM20-GJ TESTIMONY-000395 35o .I s, _03 Fag,: 2N or 35 EFTA00009613 28 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Actually 99.9 percent of the time they went through me. On a few occasions, the girls that they liked the best, for instance, , after a while me and stopped contact with each other and Jeffrey just went strictly through her. Q Okay. And when an appointment was made directly with the girl, you wouldn't necessarily know about it? A I would not necessarily know about it. Q And when the appointment was made directly with the girl then you wouldn't get paid, correct? A Correct. Q Did you hear or do you know whether some girls that you brought, brought more girls? A Yeah, I'm sure of it. Q Okay. When did you first meet Was it that day that you went to give the massage? A That's correct. Q And how did you first meet her? A Just walking in the kitchen and waiting for somebody whether it be Epstein or came and introduced herself as and I learned that she was Epstein's assistant. OFFICIAL REPORTING SERVICE, LLC (954) 467-8204 CONFIDENTIAL MM20-GJ TESTIMONY-000398 3501.182-031 Page 29 of 35 EFTA00009614 29 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q And you said that she was the one who took you upstairs on the first day? A That's correct. Q And we were talking earlier about how appointments would be made for you to bring additional girls, correct? A Yes. Q How far in advance would call you to make appointments? A It depends. Sometimes she would call me a few days in advance. Jeffrey is going to be in town tomorrow or this weekend, have a couple of girls lined up or have a girl lined up. So it would be anywhere between a couple of days to a weekend. Q Okay. Did you ever talk with or did ever tell you anything about what Jeffrey liked to do with the girls? A Absolutely not. We never discussed that. Q Did you ever talk with her about a rumor that you had heard that a girl had intercourse with Jeffrey? A One day I was talking on the phone with and I addressed her with it, asking her OFFICIAL REPORTING SERVICE, LLC (954) 467-8204 CONFIDENTIAL MM20-GJ TESTIMONY-000397 3501.182-031 Page 30 of 35 EFTA00009615 30 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 about a rumor I heard of a girl sleeping with Jeffrey, having intercourse, and making $1 ,000, and she denied it and said that he doesn't do that kind of thing, he just plays with them. Q Okay. So she said that he didn't have intercourse, he just liked to play with the girls? A That's correct. Q And when you spoke with the police, you said that Jeffrey liked to A That's correct. Q What led you to believe that? A He just did it. I just learned that Epstein just . It was like the new thing for him, and it just started happening and more and more girls were making comments. Q So did know that he was A Not that I know of. I didn't say anything and I don't think she had an idea. I think she knew there was playing going on. I don't think she knew of what sort. Q . Okay. So she knew that something sexual was going on., but not necessarily what that OFFICIAL REPORTING SERVICE, LLC (954) 467-8204 CONFIDENTIAL MM20-GJ TESTIMONY-000398 3501.182-031 Page 31 of 35 EFTA00009616 31 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 entailed? A Correct. Q Okay. Did Jeffrey or or anyone else who worked for Mr. Epstein ever ask you for proof of someone's age? A Never. Q Did they ever specifically instruct you that you shouldn't bring girls who were under age to the house? A Never. Q And when you spoke with the police department you said that at some point Jeffrey said the younger the better? A That's correct. Q And even after that he never said to you but make sure that they are over 18? A We never discussed age. He never made a comment about age except for that one time about her being too old. He never told me to go find under aged girls, but at the same time never said make sure they are over 18. It was never discussed. Q Okay. All right. I'm going to ask you to step outside for a minute and I will find out OFFICIAL REPORTING SERVICE, LLC (954) 467-8204 CONFIDENTIAL MM20-GJ TESTIMONY-000399 3501.182-031 Page 32 of 35 EFTA00009617 32 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 BY if the grand jury has questions. Thank you very much. (Witness exits the Grand Jury Room.) * * (Witness enters the Grand Jury Room.) Q Hs. I have to remind you that 8 you are still under oath. There were just two 9 1'0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 follow-up questions. The first one is something that I think you spoke about earlier, but who first asked you to find other girls? A Who first asked me to first other girls? Q Yes. A That would be Epstein. Q Okay. So Jeffrey asked you himself, Jeffrey Epstein himself asked you? A Yes. Q Okay. And then the other question was: Are you currently in contact with anyone who works for Mr. Epstein or himself? A I don't talk to any of the females that I once brought over there. I haven't been in contact with Epstein for years. He tried contacting me a few times. I haven't contacted him back. I refuse OFFICIAL REPORTING SERVICE, LLC (954) 467-8204 CONFIDENTIAL MM20-GJ TESTIMONY-000400 3501.182-031 Page 33 of 35 EFTA00009618 ,33 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1,6 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to talk to him. I refuse to talk to any of the girls that were involved. However, I did live with one of the girls in Orlando for a couple months to a year. I haven't spoken to her in over a year either. Q Okay. So after and just so the grand jury has a sense here, we are talking about the 2004 to 2005 period is when you were bringing girls over? A That's correct. Q So since then A I don't -- to be honest with you, I think it was more 2003, 2004. Q Okay. A My junior senior year. Q Okay. But anyhow it .was a couple of years ago? A Several years ago. Q Okay. Is there any follow up on either of those points? Yes, A GRAND JUROR: Was it Jeffrey Epstein himself trying to contact you or THE WITNESS: I don't know if it wasliim directly. I know that his number showed up OFFICIAL REPORTING SERVICE, LLC (954) 467-8204 CONFIDENTIAL MM20-GJ TESTIMONY-000401 3501.182-031 Page 34 of 35 EFTA00009619 34 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 on my house phone. I'm assuming because gill. was there, I'm assuming that she is the one that has been trying to contact me in the past years. Epstein never talked directly to me on the phone. : Any other follow up? Okay. Thank you, IIIIII Thank you for coming. (Witness was excused.) CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER I, Paula E. Angelocci, Certified Court Reporter and Notary Public, do certify that the transcript is a true and correct transcription of my stenotype notes of the testimony of taken before the Federal Grand Jury, West Palm Beach, Florida. AULA E. AANGHIQICCI, CSR #4869 Certified Court Reporter OFFICIAL REPORTING SERVICE, LLC (954) 467-8204 CONFIDENTIAL MM20-GJ TESTIMONY-000402 3501.182-031 Page 35 of 35 EFTA00009620 ( ( EFTA00009621