DIGITALLY RECORDED

1 DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL SEPTEMBER 29, 2021 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Drive, Suite 285 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: EFTA00063136 2 APPEARANCES: OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL BY: BY: BY: WITNESS: OTHER APPEARANCES: NONE EFTA00063137 3 1 : The recorder has started. 2 My name is and I am a Senior 3 Special Agent with the U.S. Department of 4 Justice, Office of the Inspector General, New 5 York Field Office, and these are my 6 credentials. 7 : Okay. I see them. 8 : This interview with 9 Federal Bureau of Prisons employee, Hughwon 10 , is being conducted as part of an 11 official U.S. Department of Justice, Office of 12 the Inspector General, or DOJ/OIG 13 investigation. Today's date is September 29th, 14 2021. And the time is 8:16 a.m. This 15 interview is being conducted at the OIG New 16 York Field Office, located at 1 Battery Park 17 Plaza, New York, New York. Also present is 18 DOJ/OIG ASAC, or Assistant Special Agent-in- 19 Charge, . He is in person. And 20 Special Agent is joining us by 21 telephone. He is also with the DOJ/OIG. This 22 interview will be recorded by me, Senior 23 Special Agent . Could 24 everyone please identify themselves for the 25 record, and spell their last name? To start, EFTA00063138 4 1 again, I am DOJ/OIG Senior Special Agent Dennis 2 Matulewicz. 3 : I am Assistant Special Agent- 4 in-Charge 5 6 Electronics tech. Bureau of Prisons. 7 D-A-N-I-E-L. 8 : This is Special Agent 9 . D-A-N-I-E-L. 10 : All right. Thank you. 11 This is an official DOJ/OIG investigation into 12 the death of inmate Jeffrey Epstein, and the 13 surrounding circumstances, and you are being 14 asked to voluntarily provide answers to our 15 questions. Will you agree to a voluntary 16 interview with the DOJ/OIG? 17 : Yes. 18 : Thank you, sir. So, this 19 is the official Warnings and Assurances to 20 Employees Requested to Provide Information on a 21 Voluntary Basis. And in this line, I'm going 22 to say, this investigation pertains to, 23 it's job performance failure and security 24 failure, correct? 25 : Yes. EFTA00063139 5 1 : Job performance failure. 2 All right. So, it says, United States 3 Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector 4 General, Warnings and Assurances to Employees 5 Requested to Provide Information on a Voluntary 6 Basis. "You are being asked to provide 7 information as part of an investigation being 8 conducted by the Office of the Inspector 9 General. This investigation is being conducted 10 pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978, 11 as amended. This investigation pertains to job 12 performance failure and security failure. This 13 is a voluntary interview. 14 Accordingly, you do not have to answer 15 questions. No disciplinary action will be 16 taken against you if you choose not to answer 17 questions. Any statement you furnish may be 18 used as evidence in any future criminal 19 proceedings, or agency disciplinary 20 proceedings, or both." And there is a waiver 21 section. And it says, "I understand the 22 Warnings and Assurances stated above and I am 23 willing to make a statement and answer 24 questions. No promises or threats have been 25 made to me, and no pressure or coercion of any EFTA00063140 6 1 kind has been used against me." 2 So, take a look. If you understand it, 3 and are agreeing, and are willing to continue, 4 can you just please sign where it says employee 5 signature? Thank you very much for signing. 6 DO you understand the form? 7 : Mm-hmm. Yes, I do. 8 : Okay. Do you understand 9 this is a voluntary interview? 10 : Yes. 11 : Perfect. Thank you. 12 Okay. Today's date, again, is September 29th. 13 So, I'm writing 09/29/21. The place is OIG, 14 NYFO. And the time is 8:19 a.m. And I am 15 signing my name as the Special Agent. ASAC 16 , can you sign as a witness, please? 17 : Mm-hmm. 18 : Thank you, sir. 19 : Thank you. 20 : All right. Before 21 starting the interview, I would like to place 22 you under oath. , can you please 23 raise your right hand? Do you swear to tell 24 the truth and nothing but the truth -- 25 : Yes. EFTA00063141 7 1 2 3 : -- during this interview? : Yes. : Thank you, sir. Again, 4 it's a voluntary interview, if you don't 5 understand any of my questions, please ask me 6 to rephrase. 7 : Yeah. 8 : Or ask for any 9 clarification. I would be happy to provide it. 10 Were you previously interviewed by the OIG at 11 the MCC on July 15th, 2021? 12 : Yes. 13 : Great. And that was by 14 me and Special Agent Correct? 15 : Yes. 16 : Great. Is it correct 17 that the MCC camera -. Or sorry. Before I go 18 on that, are you still at the MCC? 19 : Yes, I am. 20 : Are you still the 21 electronics technician? 22 : Yes, I am. 23 : Great. Has anything 24 changed since we spoke on July 15th, 2021? 25 : No. EFTA00063142 8 1 : No. Great. Is it 2 correct that the MCC cameras were not working 3 properly in August 2019? 4 : Yeah. Well, the recorders 5 wasn't working. The cameras were working. The 6 recorders weren't working. 7 : So, the live feed was 8 working, but the recordings were not. 9 : Yes. 10 : Correct. When did you 11 first learn that the MCC cameras were not 12 working properly? 13 : That day. This was, I 14 believe, that day. Towards the end of my 15 shift. I'm not sure what time. 16 : So, you still think it 17 was August 9th, 2019, that you learned? 18 : Yes. 19 : After giving it some 20 thought, do you think maybe it happened the day 21 before, on August 8th, 2019? 22 : I don't know if I spoke to 23 somebody. I don't know why it would be the 24 8th. 25 : All right. When we go EFTA00063143 9 1 2 3 4 over the reports, we will see if that can help freshen, you know, help you recall. First, we're just going to ask you some questions for, like, you know, so you can, from memory, recall 5 exactly -- 6 : What happened. 7 : -- when it was, and then 8 we will go over the reports, and see if that 9 helps jog anything. But to your recollection, 10 it was on August 9th, 2019? 11 : Yes. 12 : And what is -- 13 : It was that Friday. 14 : -- what is it that makes 15 you think that it was on that Friday? 16 : Because that's when I went 17 to the room. That's the only thing I really 18 remember. Because it was a lot of hours after 19 that. 20 : Okay. 21 : That day. 22 : So, it was just 23 : Yeah. 24 : -- it was a lot of things 25 going on. EFTA00063144 10 1 : Yeah. There was a lot of 2 things going on. But I remember the 9th 3 because everything happened the next day. 4 : Okay. 5 : On Saturday. 6 : And are you aware, now, 7 after the fact, that the cameras stopped 8 recording on July 29th, 2019? 9 : No. 10 : So, you're not aware of 11 that? 12 : No. Nobody. It's the 13 first time somebody has told me that. 14 : Okay. So, by reviewing 15 the recording system, or anything like that, 16 you didn't learn that they stopped on July 17 29th? 18 : No. The recorders were 19 still working. Because the recorders were 20 still working for the building. All the -. 21 Not all the cameras were working, but some of 22 the recorders were working. (Indiscernible 23 *00:06:26). 24 : So, when we spoke last 25 time, you explained to us that on, like, August EFTA00063145 11 1 9th, is when you first noticed it, and that 2 half of the cameras, or -- 3 4 5 6 : Half of them was on -- : -- half the cameras on : DVR-1. : DVR-1, and half were 7 on DVR-2. 8 : DVR-2. 9 : And one of the, one of 10 those DVRs, which included half of the cameras 11 -- 12 : Cameras. 13 : -- they stopped -- 14 : Yeah. Stopped working. 15 : -- working. 16 : Yeah. 17 : So, what is your 18 knowledge or recollection of when those half of 19 cameras -? 20 : I don't know when those 21 half the cameras stopped working? 22 : So, when you were trying 23 to obtain video after the fact, you never 24 learned, like, when they're 25 : This is the first time -- EFTA00063146 12 1 : -- the last video? 2 : -- yeah, this is the first 3 time I heard that, was July. 4 : Okay. 5 : Yeah. 6 : So, when is the first 7 time you found out, then, that the recordings 8 were, in fact, not working? 9 : When I went to go try to 10 fix it on that Friday. 11 : Okay. On the 9th? 12 : Yeah. 13 : Okay. But on the 9th, 14 did you -. I thought you had told us you 15 couldn't gain access to it on the 9th. So, 16 when did you actually gain access to the room, 17 to be able to -- 18 : I went up there -- 19 : -- determine -? 20 : -- in the afternoon, to go 21 do work. They said I couldn't stay because 22 had to leave, so the video room. 23 : Okay. 24 : Yeah. 25 So, III had to leave, so EFTA00063147 13 1 you couldn't stay to do the work? 2 : Yeah. I couldn't stay to 3 do the work, because I don't have a key, I 4 don't have access to the room. Because it's 5 the property room. 6 : And when you say "they," 7 who was it that told you this? 8 : I was talking to Officer 9 III. But it's no -. Everybody knows that SIS, 10 that's their room, and I don't have access to 11 go in the room. At the time, I didn't have 12 access to fix the recorders. 13 : Okay. Did you ever talk 14 to a 15 : That day? 16 : Any day, about these 17 recordings. 18 : Yeah. I've talked to 19 people numerous times about me getting access 20 to the room, that I should have access to the 21 room. 22 : No, I'm talking about, 23 like, on August 8th or August 9th, about the 24 cameras. Do you recall having a conversation - 25 - EFTA00063148 14 1 : I don't recall. 2 : -- with lieutenant 3 4 : No. 5 : No. Or ? The 6 Associate Warden. 7 : I don't remember. 8 : No. Okay. So, you don't 9 remember learning that, on July 29th, 2019, the 10 cameras stopped recording? 11 : This is the first time 12 : From (Indiscernible 13 *00:08:19). 14 : I heard it. 15 : That's the very first 16 time you heard? 17 : That it was July. Yeah. 18 : Okay. 19 : Because that's, like, two 20 weeks out, I wouldn't - not know it was 21 recording for two weeks. That doesn't make any 22 sense. 23 : Okay. So, you don't 24 think that that would be accurate? 25 : No. EFTA00063149 15 1 : All right. Do you know 2 what stopped them from recording? 3 : I just know that the 4 system was old, and it had a lot of problems. 5 : Okay. Do you know if 6 someone did, like, an improper shutdown, or 7 that power surge created it to shut off? 8 : They were on UPSs, and no 9 power surge that would have created it. It 10 would have just been mechanical. 11 : Okay. 12 : Or, yeah, yeah. 13 : Just from age? 14 : Just from age, and wear 15 and tear. Yes. 16 : Okay. And again, on 17 August 8th, you don't recall ever having 18 conversations with anybody regarding these 19 cameras, or first learning on August 8th that 20 the cameras went down? 21 : August 8th? The day 22 before? I don't really recall (Indiscernible 23 *00:09:09). 24 : And you don't recall 25 having the conversation with SIS Lieutenant EFTA00063150 16 1 and about the cameras not 2 recording on August 8th, 2019? On Thursday? 3 : No. I don't recall. 4 : You don't. Do you 5 remember them, towards the end of your shift, 6 bringing you in the office because they 7 couldn't get the recordings to rewind, and 8 asked you to fix the problem? 9 : On the 8th? 10 : On the 8th. 11 : Hmm. I don't recall that. 12 No. 13 : Do you remember having - 14 at any time - a conversation prior to Epstein's 15 death, with lieutenant, with SIS Lieutenant 16 and 17 : Together? At the same 18 time? No. I don't recall it. Yeah. 19 : What about separately? 20 : Separately, probably. We 21 probably talked about it. But not together. 22 At the same time. 23 : Well, do you recall the 24 conversations that you had, then, prior to 25 Epstein dying on the - or being found - on the EFTA00063151 17 1 10th. What conversations did you have with 2 each of those individuals? 3 : Right. I was just busy 4 working. On the 10th, the day it happened, or 5 -? 6 : No. Prior to the 10th. 7 So, the 8th, the 9th, or anywhere back to the 8 July 29th, really. 9 : Oh. That we were working 10 on the problem, trying to figure out what was 11 causing it, and that's when I ordered new hard 12 drives to replace all the drives. That was my 13 next step. That's what I was going to do that 14 day. But I couldn't. 15 : And what made you do 16 that, though? Who told you to replace the hard 17 drives? 18 : Talking through SigNet, 19 and the former com tech, he's the 20 computer services manager and we talked about 21 buying hard drives. I actually got a purchase 22 order, too. Yeah. 23 : So, who was the computer 24 service manager? 25 EFTA00063152 18 1 2 and last name? 3 4 M. S 6 1? 7 8 L. Yeah. 9 10 11 12 13 14 : Can you spell the first . And : And did you say . III Yes. That's an or -? Yeah. III So, no.. Noll. : Okay. And that's an- 15 : And that was the CSM? 16 : Yup. 17 I'm sorry. And it's All Not will At the 18 end. 19 : All right. So, 20 -M? 21 : Yes. 22 : Okay. Great. And who 23 was that person? 24 : He was the previous com 25 tech before I got there, and now, he was - at EFTA00063153 19 1 that present time - he was the computer 2 services manager. 3 : He was? 4 : Yes. 5 : Okay. So, he was 6 actually working at the MCC? 7 8 9 : Yes. : And he was your boss? : No. It's just, I talked 10 to him about computer stuff, because he knows a 11 little bit more than I do. That's his 12 specialty. 13 : Okay. What was his kind 14 of, like, job role at the time? 15 : His job role was to take 16 care of the computers. Infrastructure of the 17 building. 18 : Okay. 19 : Yeah. 20 : And what was the 21 conversation you had with him, and where? 22 : I think, that's when we 23 were talking about actually just replacing all 24 of the hard drives because they keep failing 25 all the time. So, the next step was to replace EFTA00063154 20 1 all the hard drives. 2 : And do you remember when 3 you had that conversation? 4 : A few days before this 5 happened. And we've had numerous conversations 6 about this for weeks because - and probably 7 months - because of the way the hard drives 8 kept failing. The drives would, the recorders 9 would stop working. 10 : So, did you know, then, a 11 few days before this? I'm assuming, when you 12 say "this," August 9th, 2019, that the hard 13 drives had failed? 14 : I knew it was a 15 possibility they failed. At the time, or the 16 before I left, I knew everything was working. 17 : Before you left when? 18 : I'm not too sure, but I'm 19 just saying, like, overall, as far as, like, as 20 far as everything recording, because I've 21 checked the recorders. It looked like 22 everything was recording. 23 : What day are you speaking 24 about, though? 25 : Oh, specifically, before EFTA00063155 21 1 the incident happened, on the 9th. 2 : So, on the 9th, 3 everything was recording? 4 : Well, when I checked it, 5 of course it wasn't recording. That's why I 6 went up there to check. 7 : It was not? 8 : It was not recording. 9 : Okay. So, when is the 10 first time you found out that it was not 11 recording? 12 : Oh. I guess the 9th. 13 Everybody keep saying the 8th, but I don't 14 really remember the 8th. 15 : Okay. So, the 9th, and 16 is that when you -- 17 : Because I -. 18 : -- are saying you had the 19 conversation with 20 : Yes. Well, I had the 21 conversation before, with , about what I 22 was going to do next. 23 : Okay. 24 : Because it happened 25 before, so the next step was just to replace EFTA00063156 22 1 all the hard drives. 2 : Like, it happened long 3 before, or when are you talking about -- 4 : It happened -- 5 : -- it happened? 6 : -- multiple times before, 7 where the recorders would stop working. 8 : Okay. 9 : Yes. 10 : So, you were trying to 11 preemptively stop that from happening? 12 : Happening again, yes. 13 : Okay. So -- 14 : So -. 15 : -- you didn't talk to 16 him based upon the system stopping recording. 17 You were talking about it -- 18 : Mm-hmm. 19 : -- doing preventative 20 maintenance? 21 : Maintenance. Yes. 22 : Is that correct? 23 : Yes. 24 : Okay. But you don't 25 remember exactly when you spoke with him? EFTA00063157 23 1 : No. Some time around that 2 time, because I have to get the purchase, I 3 have to get the parts to make the repairs, or 4 change the drives out. 5 : All right. So, until we 6 go over this, I'm going to run through these, 7 just so we keep on track. But it sounds like 8 I'm going to have to show you these documents, 9 to help maybe clarify some things. 10 : Mm-hmm. 11 : Do you know, did you know 12 that the recorders - that the cameras weren't 13 recording prior to August 9th, 2019? 14 : Yeah. I know there was 15 failures in the system. Yes. 16 : So, you knew that they 17 were not recording? 18 : Not that day. But I know 19 that, overall, there was going to be system 20 failures. 21 : And did you know that it 22 was half of them, all on DVR-1 or 2? 23 : I wasn't too sure what it 24 was. 25 : Okay. EFTA00063158 24 1 : But I know there was a 2 failure. I didn't check to see exactly where 3 they were. 4 : So, you knew there was a 5 failure with the system, prior to August 9th. 6 You just didn't know what the failure was? 7 : Yes. 8 : And how did you know 9 that? 10 : Well, I would have to go 11 check if there was video, there was no recorder 12 videos, live videos, but there was no recorder 13 video. 14 : So, you personally had 15 checked to see if there were recorded video? 16 : Yes. 17 : And when did you do that? 18 : I had, well, I had checked 19 that day, before I had to go upstairs to look 20 at everything. 21 : August 9th? 22 : August 9th. Yes. 23 : So, that's where I'm 24 saying. So, when you say, prior to the time, 25 you're talking about the same day, August 9th, EFTA00063159 25 1 is when you checked the -- 2 : Checked the recording. 3 : -- the recording. 4 : Yeah. 5 : Prior to August 9th, did 6 you check the recording to see if it was 7 recording? 8 : Multiple times before. 9 Yes. 10 : And were they recorded? 11 : From what I believe, yes. 12 I'm not too sure. 13 : Okay. Would you check 14 that system to check on the recordings, every 15 day? 16 : No. There was nothing 17 that says I have to check it. 18 : Sure. 19 : The thing with the 20 recorders is, I'm not really supposed to, like, 21 mess with the system. I just, I'm maintenance. 22 I'm not really supposed to, like, oh, today, 23 SIS, that's their job to tell me, hey, 24 there is no video, or something, there is a 25 problem. EFTA00063160 26 1 2 3 4 : So, how did you know that the recording wasn't being able to rewind, and check recording? Why were you in there checking that? 5 : I just, I guess I spoke to 6 somebody, or maybe I checked it. I'm not too 7 sure. 8 : But it would have been 9 based upon someone requesting you to do so? 10 : Yes. 11 : And you believe that 12 happened on the 9th? 13 : Yes. 14 : Okay. 15 : And just, and the call 16 dropped. Let me get back on. 17 : Absolutely. 18 : Agent 19 : Hey, . You hear us fine 20 now? 21 : Yes. I apologize. I 22 don't know why the call dropped. 23 : Mm-hmm. 24 : Okay. 25 : All right. So, we were EFTA00063161 27 1 just talking about the recording and how Mr. 2 would not go in and review a recording 3 without someone requesting him to do so. He 4 doesn't recall specifically who made that 5 request for him to review the recording, but he 6 believes that he reviewed the recording on the 7 9th, and that's when he determined that it 8 wasn't recording properly. Is that correct? 9 : Yes. 10 : All right. And you - and 11 again - you don't remember why you were 12 reviewing that recording? 13 : No. Because we're in the 14 middle of a -. Well, no, this -. Before 15 Epstein happened, we were in the middle of a 16 camera project, we had people TDY. So, I was, 17 like, the lead in the building, trying to tell 18 everybody what needs to get done. And I think 19 the day before, I was on 10 South, I was 20 putting in a rack or something, so I was busy 21 that day, and I had a TDY guy on me. 22 : And when you - on the 23 8th? 24 : Yeah. 25 : You got a TDY guy with EFTA00063162 28 1 you. 2 3 4 With you? 5 : Yeah. : And who was that TDY guy? . His last name was 6 , and I don't remember his first name. 7 He was an electrician. 8 : An electrician. Do you 9 know which facility he came from? 10 11 12 name? 13 : No. I'm not too sure. : You don't know the first : I forgot his first name. 14 We just call everybody by their last name. 15 : But he's not from MCC? 16 : No. He's not in from MCC. 17 : After the interview, can 18 you just see if you can identify who that 19 person is, and then send me an email? 20 : Okay. 21 : Of the person's name. 22 But the August 8th, 2019, you believe this -- 23 : Yeah. 24 : -- this TDY employee, 25 , was with you? EFTA00063163 29 1 : Yeah. He was with me. We 2 were together all day because we were doing the 3 piping, and trying to put the rack in. 4 : And what is a rack? 5 : Where the Well, for 6 the new camera system, that's where the power 7 supply, the switch would go, the camera feed, 8 the cat five cables would go. Everything will 9 go on the rack. 10 : So, it had to do with the 11 camera system? 12 : The upgrading the new 13 camera system. Yes. 14 : Is that anything that 15 could have possibly caused the cameras to stop 16 recording? 17 : No. That's -. Nothing 18 was hooked up. It was just the hardware. 19 There was no wiring or nothing. 20 : Okay. So, that could not 21 have affected the camera? 22 : The cameras? No. 23 : All right. And do you 24 remember, prior to August 9th, checking on the 25 camera system, though, to make sure it was EFTA00063164 30 1 recording? 2 : Yes. After we had the 3 problem, yes. 4 : No, no, no. Prior to the 5 9th. 6 : Yes. Prior to the 9th. 7 : And when did you check 8 on, prior, like, how many days before? Do you 9 remember? 10 : I don't really remember. 11 : Are you talking about, 12 like, a few days leading up, a day leading up, 13 or are you talking about, like, a month or two? 14 : Maybe, like, weeks. Not 15 months. It wouldn't have been a month. 16 : Like, a few weeks? 17 : Yeah, because I had to 18 order the parts. I don't know when I ordered 19 the parts. But I had to know that they weren't 20 working. 21 : But I thought you just 22 said that they were working, and you only 23 ordered them as preventative maintenance? 24 : Well, I - yeah -. Well, 25 they weren't working before. So, I had to EFTA00063165 31 1 rebuild one of the drives. I had to change one 2 of the drives out. 3 : Okay. 4 : That's when I went to say, 5 let me order a whole bunch of drives, to 6 replace all the drives together, at once. 7 : And are you able to 8 determine when you made that order? 9 : Yes. We have a purchase 10 order. Yes. 11 : All right. So, those two 12 things so far. Can you give me the name of 13 , and the second thing is the purchase 14 order, with regard to -- 15 : Yeah. 16 : -- when you made that 17 order -- 18 : Yeah. 19 • -- for the new drives? 20 : Mm-hmm. 21 : I'll send you an email 22 after this. 23 : Okay. 24 : Just kind of reminding 25 you of what it is we're hoping to get. And EFTA00063166 32 1 there, but again, you ordered that because 2 there was a problem with the -- 3 : Recorders. 4 : -- with the recorders -- 5 : Yes. 6 : -- you fixed that 7 problem. 8 : Temporarily. But I knew 9 it was going to happen again. And the best 10 thing to do was replace all the drives. 11 : Okay. So, you knew that 12 it would stop recording again? 13 : I knew there was going to 14 be a problem again. Yes. 15 : Okay. And what made you 16 know that 17 : Talking to the vendor, and 18 talking to , and the age of the unit, 19 because it was, like, 15 years old. And the 20 fact that it's on 365, 24 days, and on 24 hours 21 a day, like, it just constantly goes on. And 22 then, when you try to do maintenance, something 23 as simple as changing the time, the recording 24 would stop for, like, a whole day, day and a 25 half. Because for the drives rebuilding, you EFTA00063167 33 1 have to change the time. 2 : Okay. 3 : And before all of this 4 happened, I actually put in a camera project. 5 That's why I was in the middle of a camera 6 project, to replace everything. 7 : Now, when you say that 8 the people you spoke to, you mentioned 9 and then, you said the customer service people 10 -- 11 : Yeah. SigNet. 12 : -- Signet. 13 : Yeah. Mainly 14 , and I would talk to him. 15 • • 16 main point of contact? was your 17 : Yes. 18 : What about a 19 ? Would you recall -? 20 was the one that came 21 after Epstein. That's the guy that showed up 22 when we had to put in the new drives. Because 23 we ordered the new We ordered the new 24 recorders. But everything was downstairs in 25 the basement. And we weren't really a priority EFTA00063168 34 1 on the list until, of course, Epstein happened. 2 That's when SigNet came the next day, and put 3 the new recorders in. 4 : Okay. So, prior to 5 August 10th, 2019, your main point of contact 6 was SigNet, with 7 8 : I mean, -. 9 Yes. 10 : And what was his role and 11 responsibility with SigNet? 12 : He is just, like, the guy 13 we will call if there is a problem, or if 14 training, or if I don't know the system. 15 Because, like, this system, I never had 16 training on it. So, like, when I saw it, 17 because the last institution I was, was, like, 18 maybe two versions ahead of this one. So, when 19 I saw this recording, I was, like, this stuff 20 is old, like, I don't know anything about it. 21 Like, what should I do? So, I called 22 and , like, pretty much would walk me 23 through trouble shooting, if there is a 24 problem. 25 : And what was the system EFTA00063169 35 1 again? 2 : Raid (Phonetic Sp. 3 *00:21:08). 4 : Nice Pro, or something 5 like that? 6 : I don't -. I know it was 7 a raid system. A raid array. I remember 8 that's what he kept saying. Raid array. 9 : Okay. 10 : It was raid. 11 : And do you know what that 12 means? Raid array? 13 : Just the way the drives 14 would go. So, if, the way he explained that to 15 me, if one drive would go bad, that's not so 16 bad. But as soon as two drives go bad, that's 17 when all the recordings pretty much stops. 18 : So -- 19 : Because it was a redundant 20 system. 21 -- okay. So, when one 22 drive goes bad, does any, do any recordings 23 stop? 24 : No. It will keep 25 recording. EFTA00063170 36 1 : So, it will automatically 2 shift over to the other drive? 3 : To the other slot. Yes. 4 : Okay. 5 : And then, when two drives 6 go bad, that's when all the recordings stop. 7 : So, what is the 8 difference between ours, where is one -. Is 9 what you're talking about a DVR-1 and a DVR-2? 10 : No. That's the drive in 11 the DVRs, because there's 16 drives. That's 12 what - I think - that's what it was. So, out 13 of the 16 like, in DVR-1, if one goes bad, 14 that's not a problem. As soon as the second 15 drive goes bad, then that's when you have a 16 problem. And that's when the recording would 17 stop. 18 : Okay. So, what is your 19 understanding of what happened here? 20 : Oh. The drive went bad. 21 : One of them? 22 : Two of them. Yeah. 23 : Two of them 24 : I believe. 25 • -- did go bad? EFTA00063171 37 1 2 - : Yes. Because that's why - 3 : And is it two of 16, or 4 is it two out of two? 5 : Two out of 16. 6 : So, if two out of 16 go 7 bad -- 8 : Go bad. 9 : -- then -- 10 : Mm-hmm. 11 they all. 12 : The recordings stop. Yes. 13 : For all of them? 14 : Yes. 15 : Okay. 16 : On that drive. All the 17 recording stops. 18 : And the DVR-1 and DVR-2, 19 that's simply the recording system? 20 : Yes. 21 : That's not the, anything 22 to do with the -. The drives are what's making 23 -- 24 : Mm Hmm. 25 : -- the recording, but EFTA00063172 38 1 they're saving it to DVR-1 -- 2 : Yes. 3 : -- and DVR-2. 4 : Yes. 5 : So, what is the 6 difference between if a DVR-1 goes bad, but not 7 DVR-2? Is that just -? 8 : The physical location over 9 it. Because everything on the old system was 10 analog. So, like, cameras one through whatever 11 are on this drive, on DVR-1, and our other 12 cameras are on DVR-2. 13 : So, does each DVR have 16 14 drives? 15 : Yes. 16 : All right. So -- 17 : So -. 18 : DVR-1 has 16 drives. 19 DVR-2 has 16 drives. 20 : Yes. 21 : And either DVR-1 or DVR- 22 2, two of those drives went bad? 23 : Yes. 24 : And stopped that DVR-2 25 from recording. EFTA00063173 39 1 : From recording. Yes. 2 : But the drives on DVR-1 3 were all good? 4 : All good. Yes. 5 : Okay. 6 : And another thing I've 7 learned also, through my time, is that SigNet 8 replied to me this, you could look at the 9 camera software, until you physically look at 10 the drives, you would think that everything is 11 recording. That's something we went over 12 recently. 13 : Well, what about a -. I 14 was told that there was an application that you 15 would have, that was called Supervision. 16 : Yeah. I don't look at 17 Supervision. 18 : You don't. 19 : You can. I have access to 20 look at it, but I didn't get trained on it, so 21 I don't really look at Supervision. I would 22 just go in the regular Nice Vision, and look at 23 it that way. 24 : Yeah. We were told that, 25 in order to determine if there were problems EFTA00063174 40 1 2 3 4 with the drives -- have to -- : The drives. You would -- that's through -- 5 : -- yes. 6 -- yeah, you go into 7 Supervision, and that would, in fact, tell you? 8 : And which, I have no 9 training on. 10 : So, you've never -- 11 : Obviously. 12 : -- looked at that? 13 : No. 14 : Did anyone else have 15 health -- 16 : At the time, no. 17 : -- did anyone else have 18 access? 19 : No. 20 : So, you were the only 21 person with access to Supervision? 22 : Yes. Pretty much. Yes. 23 : All right. And do you 24 know if someone accessed the application 25 Supervision, they could have taken the drives EFTA00063175 41 1 offline, or the recordings offline? 2 : Hmm, yeah. But yeah, 3 nobody would have that access. 4 : Would they be able to do it from there, though? 6 : Yes. They probably would, 7 yes. 8 : But you are confident no 9 one had access to it? 10 : No. 11 : Okay. So, you would be 12 the one and only person with access to 13 Supervision? 14 : Yes. 15 : And there is no, like, if 16 you're not there, somebody else has 17 : There is nobody -- 18 : -- a way to -- 19 : -- there is nobody. Yeah. 20 : -- how would they do 21 that? From SigNet? To get access again. 22 : Oh, no. They would just 23 have to know the password, to log in. 24 : Well, that's what I mean. 25 So, if you ended up not being able to show up, EFTA00063176 42 1 or you left, or something like that, how would 2 someone gain access to that? 3 : That's something they 4 would have to try to figure out, but yeah. I 5 don't 6 : But to your knowledge, 7 you're the only person that had the password to 8 access Supervision? 9 : Yes. 10 : Okay. And SigNet 11 wouldn't be able to remote in? 12 : No. They have no access 13 to remote in. That's BOP. They don't want 14 them to be able to backdoor remote into 15 anything. 16 : Okay. And when did you - 17 - 18 : Oh. Well, they -. The 19 old system, they were able to, if you had a 56K 20 (Phonetic Sp. *00:25:06) modem, they were able 21 to do maintenance, and tell me, like, the 22 status of the drives. But I would have to 23 physically hook up 56k modem. But at the time, 24 that wasn't hooked up. Because we did some 25 repairs before, when I was trying to figure EFTA00063177 43 1 stuff out, and I couldn't figure it out, where 2 they would - through a modem - they would 3 remote into the -. Well, I would have to grant 4 them access to look at the drives, to help with 5 the drives. 6 : So, how -- 7 : And we've done that 8 before. Yes. 9 so, you had to grant 10 them access. They couldn't go in there 11 : No 12 -- without your 13 : Physically. And 14 physically, you have to put a cable in. 15 : Okay. 16 : Yeah. 17 : So, you are the one and 18 only person with access, remotely, that could 19 have accessed those servers? 20 : Yes. 21 : Okay. And do you 22 remember the last time you would have accessed 23 that application? 24 : I have no idea. 25 : No? Would it have been EFTA00063178 44 1 leading up to August 9th, 2019? 2 : Probably. Yeah. 3 : And do you know around 4 how long before that? 5 : No. 6 : Is there a way to 7 determine? Do they have, like, some thing that 8 you can see when your last log ons were, or 9 anything like that? 10 : You could call computer 11 services, then they could tell you my 12 keystrokes or whatever, whatever I logged into. 13 But that's, like, the only time. Yeah. 14 : Okay. 15 : But there is really 16 nothing to say when I logged in. 17 : But to your recollection, 18 you were not accessing Supervision at all? 19 : Hmm. I mean, they showed 20 me how to do some stuff on it, but I don't 21 really even think I remembered how to - at that 22 time - I don't really remember. 23 : But the point being, in 24 this case, you didn't find out the recordings 25 had stopped because of that application, EFTA00063179 45 1 Supervision. Correct? 2 : I don't believe so. No. 3 : Okay. And you did not 4 take the cameras, or recordings, offline from 5 Supervision. Correct? 6 : No. I can't. Yeah. No. 7 I've never been able to do that. So, no. 8 : So, you don't even -. 9 Sorry. I thought you told me before you could 10 do it. DO you think -- 11 : You have access to do it, 12 yes, if you are in Supervision. Yeah. There 13 is stuff you can do on Supervision to stop the 14 recordings. Yes. 15 : Now, if you weren't 16 really familiar with the application, is it 17 possible that you were in there, and you 18 accidentally knocked them offline? 19 : No. 20 : Okay. 21 : I wouldn't knock anything 22 offline. 23 : No. You don't believe 24 so? 25 : No. EFTA00063180 46 1 : Okay. And what would be 2 a reason for you to go into the application, 3 Supervision? 4 : Just to see what was going 5 on, who's logging on, or just to, if something 6 looks funky to me, or just doesn't feel right, 7 to see what was going on. 8 : Okay. 9 : Yeah. 10 : And do you have any 11 examples, prior to August 9th, 2019, when you 12 would have done that? 13 : I know there was one time, 14 like, when they remoted in, they were showing 15 me stuff on the drives. And I was talking to 16 SigNet over the phone, and they were showing me 17 how to fix the drives before. 18 : Okay. 19 : But other than that, like, 20 I don't really remember me using Supervision 21 that much. 22 : And that would have been, 23 they would have had a log of when that 24 happened? 25 : Yeah. Supervision has a - EFTA00063181 47 1 . Every time you log into Supervision, you see 2 a username and who logged in. That's always 3 kept on Supervision. 4 : Okay. And do you have 5 access to that now, to be able to 6 : Yes. 7 : -- determine? 8 : Yes. 9 : So, it shows that 10 : Well, that -- 11 : -- it shows -. 12 : -- well, whatever system 13 you have, you can log into it, and see what you 14 have on it, in Supervision. 15 : And when you logged in, 16 and when you logged out? 17 : Yeah. 18 : So, would you still have 19 the ability now, to go back to see when you 20 logged in and logged out? 21 : For the old system, no. 22 : No? Not for the old 23 system. 24 : Old system, no. 25 : Okay. But SigNet would EFTA00063182 48 1 2 3 4 probably have a call log of you -- : Of who's on. : -- talking with them? : Yes. 5 : Going over -- 6 : Supervision. 7 : -- Supervision? 8 : -- yes. 9 : All right. So, SigNet 10 should be able to provide us something, with 11 regard to 12 : Supervision. Yes. 13 : -- when they had you in 14 there. 15 : Yeah. 16 : And do you think that you 17 went in there, though, aside from them showing 18 you? 19 : Maybe to check some stuff 20 out. But not really. 21 : Okay. All right. So, 22 again, August 9th is the first time you think 23 that you knew that the cameras weren't 24 recording. 25 : Mm-hmm. EFTA00063183 49 1 : If we were to tell you 2 that the cameras actually stopped the recording 3 on July 29th, 2019, you said that's news to 4 you? 5 : Yes. That's kind of a 6 long time for me not to notice that the cameras 7 That's, like, a week and a half. 8 : Something like that. 9 : Yeah. 10 : Yeah. 11 : For me not to notice that 12 they stopped recording. 13 : So -. 14 : But I could see where, if 15 I didn't do it, because we were busy with a 16 project, maybe I didn't check it. But that's 17 kind of hard. And for SIS, or nobody to tell 18 me, like, hey, the cameras weren't recording, 19 or we've tried to pull video and it wasn't 20 working. That's kind of weird, too. 21 : All right. All right. 22 So, since you don't remember these, we're going 23 to start going into -- 24 : Sure. 25 : -- some of these -. I'm EFTA00063184 50 1 just, again, because I assumed you were going 2 to remember this stuff, I'm going to cover 3 these questions to make sure that I don't miss 4 anything. 5 : Mm-hmm. 6 : And then, we will have 7 to, maybe, refresh with some of them. So, did 8 , Associate Warden , or 9 tell you to fix the cameras on 10 August 9th, 2019? On August 8th -- 11 : 8th. 12 : -- or 9th, 2019. 13 : Yes. The 8th or 9th. 14 Yes. 15 : Okay. 16 : Somebody did tell me about 17 the drives. 18 : And who was it that told 19 you? 20 : I think it was SIS. 21 Somebody in SIS. It might have been 22 But I'm pretty sure it's somebody from SIS that 23 told me, hey, the cameras stopped working. Or 24 here, there is a problem. 25 : And can you just recall EFTA00063185 51 1 that conversation, of what they told you, and 2 what happened, and where it was? 3 : It's pretty simple. Like, 4 hey, , the camera is not working, this 5 and that, it's not really elaborate. Like, I 6 just go and do my thing. 7 : And did they tell you, 8 fix it immediately? 9 : No. 10 : Did they tell you that 11 they were informing the captain? 12 : No. 13 : And you don't recallill 14 being involved? 15 : Pfft. This is news to me, 16 she doesn't really get involved, as far as I 17 know. 18 : Well -. 19 : I mean, after the fact, 20 everybody is involved, but 21 : So, the information we 22 have is and were 23 attempting to review video on August 8th -- 24 : Oh, okay. 2019. 25 : -- 2019. EFTA00063186 52 1 2 at video -- 3 4 : Okay. They were looking And -- : -- for some reason. 5 : -- and they were looking 6 at video. So, they called you. 7 : Okay. 8 : And had you come up. And 9 had you determine what was going on. 10 : Okay. 11 said, 12 on August 8th, she said, make sure that you get 13 this thing fixed. 14 : Mm-hmm. 15 : She, then, she said she 16 didn't work on August 9th, and the schedule for 17 August 9th reflects that. 18 : Okay. So, if that 19 happened, I'm not saying this happened, but if 20 it that did happen, I probably noticed that the 21 drive went back and probably was trying to 22 rebuild the drive. But I'm not sure if that's 23 exactly -. Honestly, I don't remember the day 24 before what happened. 25 : And that's what I'm EFTA00063187 53 1 trying to, you know -- 2 : Mm-hmm. 3 -- refresh your 4 recollection. So, on August 8th, 2019, she 5 said it happened some time before 2:00 p.m., 6 that's when she spoke to you about this. 7 : So, I would have went in 8 there. 9 : And she said -. 10 : And if I was upstairs, I 11 would have went right in the room. 12 : And she - yeah - she said 13 that -- 14 : But I don't remember. 15 : -- she was under the 16 understanding that, on August 8th, you were 17 fixing it. 18 : Yeah. 19 : She said, she didn't work 20 on August 9th, and she hadn't planned on 21 working on August 10th -- 22 : Mm-hmm. 23 : -- but she got called in. 24 : Mm-hmm. 25 : On August 10th -- EFTA00063188 54 1 2 3 4 5 : August 10th. : -- because of what -- : Yeah. Epstein. : -- happened with Epstein. : Yes. 6 : She said, when she saw 7 you on August 10th, she had learned that the 8 camera system wasn't fixed 9 10 11 recording. 12 13 : Yeah. : -- and they weren't : Yeah. : And she said, , why 14 didn't this get fixed? And your response to 15 her was, I came in today to do that. 16 : Yeah. 17 : Does that all help you 18 : Yes. 19 : -- recollect what's going 20 on? 21 : Yes. 22 : Does that sound accurate? 23 : It sounds accurate, but -. 24 So, if something happened on the 8th, I don't 25 think I would wait until the 9th to fix it. EFTA00063189 55 1 So, if it did happen on the 8th, I don't really 2 remember the 8th. I remember the 9th more 3 specifically. But it did happen on the 8th. I 4 would have went to the room, and just replaced 5 the drives, because that's the only thing I 6 would do. 7 : All right. I'm going to 8 skip ahead and do, I'm going to read you - and 9 I'll continue on with this - I'm going to 10 : Yeah. 11 : -- read you the FBI 12 interview report from when you 13 : Mm-hmm. 14 : -- do you remember, you 15 said that you were interviewed by the FBI? 16 : Yes. I was. 17 : All right. So, this says 18 you were interviewed by the FBI on March 12th, 19 2020. Is that correct? 20 : Yes. 21 : All right. So, I'm going 22 to just read, I'll just read the whole thing, 23 so that we're not missing anything. It says, 24 "On March 12, 2020, ," it says 25 your date of birth and telephone number, "was EFTA00063190 56 1 interviewed by Assistant United States 2 Attorney, (Phonetic Sp. 3 *00:32:42), Task Force Officer Detective 4 (Phonetic Sp. *00:32:45), and 5 Special Agent-, at the United 6 States Attorney's Office, Southern District of 7 New York, 1 St. Andrew Plaza, New York, New 8 York. During the interview, provided 9 the following details." Does that all sound 10 correct so far? 11 : Yes. 12 : And we're just going to 13 stop after each paragraph, to have you -- 14 : Mm-hmm. 15 : -- to check in with you. 16 " started working for the Bureau of 17 Prisons in_, and worked in both New York 18 and Indiana. had some college 19 education, was in the United States Marine 20 Corps for four years, and had ten years' 21 experience in electronics." Correct? 22 : Yes. 23 : "In 2016, was put 24 in charge of all the cameras at the 25 Metropolitan Correctional Center (MCC). EFTA00063191 57 1 advised that the cameras at MCC were out of 2 date. The recorders frequently went bad, and 3 the cameras were all analog, and not maintained 4 properly." 5 : Yes. 6 "The camera system was 7 over 20 years old. Sometimes, the screen would 8 be active, indicating that the camera was 9 working. However, the video would not be 10 recording." 11 : Yes. 12 • advised that only 13 one hard drive of the camera system was 14 working, at the time of the incident, on August 15 10th, 2019. When a DVR went bad, none of the 16 cameras recorded. There was a system failure 17 of DVR-2 on July 29th, 2019, and the 18 motherboard failed on DVR-2 on August 8th, 19 2019. The hard drive failure occurred on 20 August 10th, 2019." Is that something that you 21 provided to them? 22 : Yeah. I probably did. 23 Yes. 24 : So, can you just explain 25 to me what we're talking about here, because it EFTA00063192 58 1 2 3 4 says -? : That was -. : It says, specifically, there was a system failure -- 5 : Yes. 6 : -- of DVR-2, on July 29th 7 8 : 29th. 9 : -- 2019. 10 : That was a month before. 11 Well, yeah. 12 : That's that week and a 13 half. 14 (Indiscernible *00:34:34). 15 : That's the July 29th, 16 2019 -- 17 : Yes. 18 : -- that we were talking 19 about. So, what would have happened with the 20 system failure? 21 : That's when I had to 22 replace the motherboard on the DVR-2. 23 : And what does that mean? 24 : DVR-2 was really old, and 25 SigNet didn't have the parts to replace it, so EFTA00063193 59 1 I had to call with , I contacted another 2 BOP facility, and then, I took the computer 3 apart, and he just pretty much replaced the 4 motherboard, and got the DVR-2 to start 5 working. 6 : On the 29th? 7 : If that's what it says, 8 yes. 9 : Well, it just says -. It 10 doesn't say when you got it to stop working. 11 It just says there was a system failure of DVR- 12 2 on July 29th, 2019. 13 : I believe they probably 14 spoke to Signet then. I'm not too sure with 15 the dates because everything is I've been 16 super busy. The dates, I'm not really good 17 with. 18 : Okay. But on July 29th, 19 2019, with the system failure, would have that 20 stopped the recordings? 21 : Yes. A system failure 22 would have stopped the recordings. 23 : Okay. And is it your 24 understanding that, after July 29th, the 25 recordings were working? EFTA00063194 60 1 : Yes. 2 : All right. 3 : Because he would have 4 logged into Nice Vision, and he would have seen 5 things was working. 6 : But I thought you said 7 that -- 8 : And that's, well -- 9 : -- you'll only see if it 10 was working, if it was live feed. I thought 11 you said you wouldn't see recording. 12 : No. If you log into the 13 Nice Vision, with the live feed, you would 14 think everything is still recording because 15 everything looks green. It's when you try to 16 play back the video and, like, oh, wow, there's 17 nothing being recorded. That's when you would 18 know there is a problem. 19 : Okay. So -- 20 : So, if somebody has 21 the way you check -- 22 -- to pull the video. 23 Yeah. 24 : -- like, the way you 25 checked was to try to rewind video? EFTA00063195 61 1 : Yeah. That's the only way 2 you could check it, is try to pull video from 3 the days prior. 4 : All right. So, you are 5 aware, though, on July 29th, 2019, it stopped 6 recording, but your understanding was that you 7 got it to work again? 8 : Yes. Everything started 9 working again. 10 : All right. And do you 11 know if you checked on it for say, let's say 12 the 30th of July, or -? 13 : I was in the middle of a 14 project, so I can't say I was just focused on 15 that, because there was a lot going on. 16 : So, you only recall that 17 you would have checked on the 29th? 18 : Yeah. 19 : Of July. 20 : Yeah. I don't think I 21 would have had reason to check, unless somebody 22 told me it wasn't working. 23 : Okay. And it says, "And 24 the motherboard failed on DVR-2, on August 8th, 25 2019." What does that mean? EFTA00063196 62 1 : So, the motherboard, 2 that's the one I had to get replaced on August 3 8th, 2019. 4 : Right. So, this says 5 August 8th. And you've been saying that you 6 first learned on August 9th. So, where does 7 this come into play? How do we know that the 8 motherboard failed on DVR-2 on August 8th, 9 2019? 10 : August 8th. That's the 11 motherboard I wrote, I must have replaced. 12 Because I remember replacing a motherboard. 13 : And what does a 14 motherboard do? What is that? 15 : When did this happen? 16 Everything happened on the Epstein, that was -- 17 : Epstein was the 10t . 18 : 10th. 19 : And just to help 20 : So, that's -- 21 : -- so, just so we're not 22 running in circles -- 23 24 : -- yeah, that -. : -- let me just read you 25 the SigNet service call, as well. EFTA00063197 63 1 : Yeah. 2 : So, this is the SigNet 3 service request, number 24975. 4 : Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 5 : It says, assigned to 6 7 : Mm-hmm. 8 9 : Mm-hmm. (Indiscernible 10 *00:37:33). 11 : -- and 12 Date created, August 8th, 2019. 13 : Okay. 14 : And then, if we go down 15 and we look at the, well, we'll read the 16 comment section. 17 : Okay. 18 : So, there is a comment by 19 on August 8th, 2019, at 3:38 p.m. 20 It says, "Hi, . Unable to locate anything 21 official. The basic steps are as follows. 22 One, set the raid level to none and save. It 23 will restart it with all drives being J. 24 Replace any faulty drives. Two, set the raid 25 level to five, and save. It will restart and EFTA00063198 64 1 being an initialization." And obviously, these 2 words seem to be wrong. I'm sure -- 3 : Mm-hmm. 4 : -- it's supposed to say, 5 it will restart and begin initialization. 6 : Mm-hmm. 7 : It talks about the 8 password. And it talks about different 9 directions to go forward -- 10 : Mm-hmm. 11 -- with. And then, there 12 is a comment by on August 14, 13 2019, at 8:02 p.m. This says, " 14 called us on Thursday, August 8th, stating that 15 he had two bad drives on his raid unit." 16 : Mm-hmm. 17 : "Of the Nice Vision Pro 18 Unit NVR. We advised him to get replacement 19 drives." 20 : Mm-hmm. 21 : Once they are replaced, 22 they should start to -- 23 24 25 : Initialize. : -- initialize -- : Yes. EFTA00063199 65 1 : -- to become available 2 for the raid array. Hughwon did not have 3 drives readily available." 4 : Mm-hmm. 5 : "He checked with his 6 local CSM," which again -- 7 : Mm-hmm. 8 : -- you said was -- 9 10 okay. "To see if they 11 had any spare replacement drives. Once he 12 located replacement drives on Friday, August 13 9th, he did not have access to the DVR room to 14 replace them. He called SigNet for phone 15 support, on Saturday, August 10th -- 16 : Mm-hmm. 17 : -- when he gained access 18 to the DVR room. 19 : Mm-hmm. 20 "He attempted to replace 21 the drives, and they started to rebuild. 22 During the rebuild process of the drives, the 23 drives were required to be taken out of the 24 raid on DVR-2." 25 : Yeah. EFTA00063200 66 1 2 3 4 : "Once the drives are removed without proper shutdown of the recorder, the video database becomes corrupted. Typically, any time the raid on a raid five 5 configuration loses two drives 6 : Mm-hmm. 7 : -- the raid needs to be 8 rebuilt, and all data is wiped from the raid." 9 : Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 10 : Do you want to just 11 review that yourself? 12 : Uh-huh. 13 : So that I'm not just 14 reading it to you, and tell me if that sounds 15 accurate to you. 16 : Yes. That sounds a little 17 bit better, like, what happened. 18 : So, is this now 19 refreshing your recollection that, actually, on 20 August 8th, is when you found out? 21 : Yes. Okay. It was the 22 8th, 23 : It was the 8th? 24 : The 8th. Yes. 25 : All right. And it was EFTA00063201 67 1 the 8th that someone told you that the 2 recorders -- 3 : (Indiscernible *00:40:04), 4 and I probably went to go look at the room. 5 Yes. And then, I probably went back the next 6 day, on the 9th, because the Thursday, when he 7 told me to put the drives in, I probably went 8 to put the drives in, and replace them. And 9 then, Friday, is when I'm stopped to see if the 10 drives finished that rebuilding. 11 : I'm sorry. Can you 12 repeat this again? What happened? 13 : Okay. Okay. Now, it's 14 making more sense. 15 : So, on the 8th, was it - 16 can you recall - was it that 17 told -? 18 : Somebody told me what was 19 going on, on the 8th. 20 : At the time, was there 21 only two SIS people working there, Lieutenant 22 , and SIS Tech 23 24 25 : -- is it -? EFTA00063202 68 1 2 : Yes. 3 : Were they -? I think 4 they were the only two 5 : Two working. 6 : -- at the time. 7 : Yes. 8 : So, would it have been 9 one of the two of them? 10 : Two of them. Yes. 11 : Okay. And they told you 12 that the recording -- 13 14 15 16 : Recorders went bad. : -- was -. : Yes. : Okay. So -. 17 : And then, and that's 18 probably when I called SigNet, okay, two 19 drives, two bad drives. So, I probably got the 20 drives. I started to rebuild it. And then, 21 the next day, that's when I checked. 22 : But it sounds like, from 23 this, you didn't have the drives on the 8th. 24 Is that correct? 25 : I probably - because there EFTA00063203 69 1 was spare drives on the room - so, I probably 2 started to rebuild on the 8th. I'm not too 3 sure. Honestly. 4 : All right. Well, this is 5 really important for us to get you to try to 6 remember. 7 : I know. 8 : Because this is, like, a 9 big piece of this, the fact that the cameras 10 were down when Epstein -- 11 : Yeah, I know, but I 12 : -- and 13 : I was doing, like, a 14 million things, and I've been doing a million 15 things after, like -- 16 : Sure. 17 : -- this happened. 18 : So, on the 8th, you 19 actually believe that, from reading this -- 20 : This. Yes. 21 : -- you believe that you 22 actually did try to rebuild on the 8th -- 23 : Yes. 24 : -- and not on the 10th? 25 : Not on the 10th. Yes. EFTA00063204 70 1 : All right. Because that 2 way that it reads, I thought was that, you 3 didn't have them on the 8th. On the 9th, you 4 didn't have access, "And then, on the 10th, 5 when he gained access to the DVR room, he 6 attempted to replace the drives, and they 7 started to rebuild." That's how this reads. 8 : That sounds about -. That 9 sounds right. Yeah. 10 : So, now you're thinking, 11 you actually did it on the 10th, and not the 12 8th? 13 : Yeah, I know I replaced 14 the drives on the 10th, because that's when 15 they told me, like, not to do it, and it got 16 crazy. 17 : All right. So, now 18 you're thinking that actually you didn't do 19 anything on the 8th. 20 : Hmm. I probably know 21 about those drives being bad, and I went to go 22 get drives. 23 : So -- 24 : Yes. 25 : -- so, on the 8th, you EFTA00063205 71 1 went to look for drives? 2 : Yes. 3 : Do you think you located 4 them on the 8th? 5 : Hmm. I came back the next 6 day, and that's when I replaced them. 7 : Well, the next day was 8 the 9th -- 9 : The 9th. 10 : -- and it says that you 11 didn't have access to 12 : Just to replace 13 : -- replace. 14 : -- yeah, I can't go in the 15 room. 16 : So then, it sounds like, 17 so, you didn't do anything on the 8th -- 18 : Or the 9th. 19 : -- or the 9th. 20 : Mm-hmm. 21 : You obtained the 22 hardware, but then, on the 10th -- 23 : That's when I got access 24 to the room. 25 : -- and previously, what EFTA00063206 72 1 you told us that, is that you found out on the 2 9th, and then on the 10th, you didn't have 3 access to the room, so on the 10th, you did 4 overtime so that you could do it then. 5 : I was going to be doing 6 overtime anyway. So, I was going to be there 7 regardless. 8 : You were going to be 9 there on the 10th, regardless? 10 : Yeah, because we had TDY 11 people there. 12 : Okay. So, you were going 13 to be working on the 10th, overtime, regardless 14 of this camera issue? 15 : Yeah. Regardless. I was 16 -. Because this had nothing to do with my 17 overtime. I was doing a project. 18 : All right. Because we 19 talked in pretty detail, in July, when 20 and I spoke with you about, like, how someone 21 approved your overtime to work on the 10th, 22 specifically to work on this camera issue. 23 : No. This was not for 24 that. 25 : And you -- EFTA00063207 73 1 : No. And that's -- 2 : -- and then, you went on 3 where, like, on, in detail about -- 4 : No. That's -- 5 : -- like, who would have 6 approved it -- 7 : No. What -- 8 -- would it have been 9 ? Would it have been one of the AWs? 10 The captain? 11 : I don't know who approved 12 it, but we were already working on the camera 13 project. So, that's what I was doing. 14 : Okay. 15 : I was already -- 16 : So, you weren't -- 17 : -- this had nothing to do 18 with anything. 19 : -- so, you weren't there 20 on -- 21 : So, specifically, to just 22 deal with this. And if I said, okay, I'll deal 23 with it tomorrow, I probably, said, okay, I 24 don't have time today, I could deal with it 25 first thing in the morning tomorrow. EFTA00063208 74 1 : Okay. So, if you didn't 2 deal with it on the 9th, because you couldn't 3 gain access to -- 4 : Yes. 5 : -- the SIS room? 6 : Yeah. 7 : How were you going to get 8 access to the SIS room 9 : Somebody was there 10 : -- (Indiscernible 11 *00:43:42). 12 : -- on Saturday. 13 : Now, someone is always 14 there from SIS on Saturday? 15 : Not always, but there was 16 going to be somebody there on Saturday -- 17 : Okay. 18 : -- because I think I asked 19 • if he was going to be there Saturday. 20 21 22 23 employee, correct? 24 All right. And III -- And there was -. : -- wasn't actually an SIS : Yes. He was an SIS. He 25 was just in the video room. EFTA00063209 75 1 : He was a telephone 2 monitor -- 3 : Monitor. 4 : -- guy. 5 : Yes. 6 : But he didn't actually 7 work for SIS. Correct? 8 : No. But there would have 9 been a reason why I said I'm coming back 10 tomorrow because somebody would have been in 11 the office tomorrow for me to get access. 12 : So, you believe either 13 III, or one of the SIS -. So, III could gain 14 access without an SIS employee letting him in? 15 : He has the key for the 16 room. 17 : He did? 18 : Yes. 19 : All right. So, you 20 believe III, then, was going to be there on 21 Saturday, and he was going to grant you access? 22 : Somebody was going to be 23 there to grant me access. 24 : And previously, when you 25 said that III was You said III was there on EFTA00063210 76 1 the 9th, or he was there on the 8th? 2 : That's his main post. 3 So, he is always, like, there. 4 : So, he is always in the 5 SIS room? 6 : So, for the week, yeah. 7 That's what he's -. He's just in the room. 8 : Okay. . As in, 9 10 : Yes. I have a couple of 11 questions. 12 : Oh, yeah. But what I -- 13 (Indiscernible *00:44:50). 14 -- was going to ask is 15 if, can you check the roster for the 10th, and 16 see if III was scheduled, or , or 17 SIS 18 : Okay. Hold on a minute. 19 : Yeah. (Indiscernible 20 *00:45:01). 21 III is listed for August 22 10th. At 7:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. on OSP number 23 one. 24 : Oh. Is that OSP number 25 one, is that the -? EFTA00063211 77 1 : No. That's OSP-1. That's 2 outside perimeter. But he still had, would 3 have the key. So, he probably would have given 4 me access to the room. 5 : And do you believe that 6 you actually spoke with him about any of this? 7 : Yeah. We spoke about it, 8 like 9 10 11 12 spoken with him? 13 : When I went in the room, 14 like, because he was leaving for the day, he 15 was, like, well, you can't have access. I'll 16 be back tomorrow. And then, I would have came 17 -- 18 : Well, and what day did he 19 tell you that? On the 8th or the 9th? 20 : That was that Friday. 21 22 23 24 check, was 25 • : Prior to the 10th? -- yeah. : When would have you : So, the 9th? : Yeah. : All right. Can you just in on that Friday? : Yeah. Let me -. 1 don't EFTA00063212 78 1 see his name on the first couple of pages. 2 However, you want to go through the rest. 3 : All right. So, again, 4 the way that this reads is -. 5 : I think you said, 6 : Excuse me? 7 is listed for phone 8 monitor. 9 So, is there? 10 : Yeah. It looks like he 11 was assigned to phone monitor. 12 : All right. And phone 13 monitor would have been in the SIS room? 14 : Yes. 15 : All right. And -- 16 : In the SIS room. 17 18 19 20 -- and how do they (Indiscernible *00:47:43). -- is that : It's 21 : Okay. Great. All right. 22 So, he would have been the phone monitor. So, 23 your understanding, then, is on the 8th, that's 24 when it was noticed that this thing wasn't -- 25 : Right. EFTA00063213 79 1 : -- recording. 2 : Yes. 3 : And that was by an SIS 4 official? 5 : Mm-hmm. 6 : Somebody, either a 7 8 : Mm-hmm. 9 : -- or a 10 : Yeah. 11 : On the 9th, you went in 12 to go fix it? 13 : Yes. 14 : But you went towards the 15 end of your shift, when III was leaving? 16 : I started doing something 17 before then, but it was going to be too late 18 for the drives to rebuild, so even if I 19 replaced them, it wasn't going to be, like, 20 right away. The drives were going to start 21 working. 22 : Well, didn't you say that 23 it took about eight hours for the drives to -? 24 : A whole day. 24 hours. 25 : So -- EFTA00063214 80 1 : Not eight hours. Not 2 eight hours. A whole 24 hours. 3 : -- so, why wouldn't you 4 have rebuilt them -- 5 : Mm-hmm. 6 -- during the day, on the 7 9th, so that you could check back in on the 8 9 10 : Probably -- : 10th? : -- well, like I said, I 11 didn't have drives, or I was trying to get the 12 drives. 13 : Well, this says that, on 14 the 8th, you didn't have the drives. On the 15 9th -- 16 : Mm-hmm. 17 : -- he had -- 18 : Yeah. 19 : -- he did not access to 20 the DVR 21 22 23 24 25 : Mm-hmm. : DVR room. : Mm-hmm. : -- to replace them. : To replace the drives. EFTA00063215 81 1 Yeah. So, it was probably later, in the end of 2 the day, I had all the drives, and I went to go 3 replace them. And that's when I couldn't go in 4 the room. 5 : Okay. And then, you 6 talked to III at that time, and said you would 7 be back on Saturday to do it? 8 : Yeah. Yeah. 9 : All right. Now, in 10 talking to , she explained 11 that this was an extremely urgent matter, and 12 that she spoke to - she wrote a memo on it. 13 And she talked to the captain, and they said, 14 make sure you get this done today. And that -- 15 : Yeah. 16 •• -- on the 10th, when she 17 saw you -- 18 : That sounds like -- 19 •• -- she said -- 20 : -- a lot of B.S. I'm 21 sorry to say like -- 22 : -- okay. 23 : -- that doesn't -. 24 Because this thing happened so many times, as 25 I've been there. Like, why would this day be EFTA00063216 82 1 different from the months leading up to it, 2 where this kept happening? Like, why would -. 3 I know Epstein happened. Everybody is trying 4 to say -- 5 : Yeah. 6 : -- okay, this is what 7 happened, but before that, nobody even cared. 8 To be honest with you. 9 : So 10 : I'm just going to be 11 honest. Nobody cared that the drives were bad, 12 or the recordings aren't working. Oh, those 13 recorders weren't working. Okay. Fix it, 14 And then, we will go from there. But 15 nobody, before Epstein. This was, like, a known 16 thing. 17 : Okay. 18 : Like, the drives would go 19 bad. There would be no video. It was no big 20 deal to anybody in that building. 21 : Because you said, in 22 every other institution, within the BOP -- 23 : Yeah. 24 : -- this would have been 25 very (Indiscernible *00:49:57). EFTA00063217 83 1 : This is a big deal. This 2 is, like, you can't leave. You've got to stay 3 here. 4 : Well, that's what she 5 says, she said she actually wrote a memo, 6 provided it to the captain, both said, yes, 7 this has got to get done on the 8th. 8 : Well, if that was the 9 case, they would have gave me access and I 10 would have stayed in the building. I would 11 never get to go home. And that's what I've 12 done before in my other institution. Any time 13 anything fails, or if there is a big failure, 14 you stay until it's fixed. 15 : Right. And that's where 16 17 : And that's what they are 18 doing now. 19 : -- what we're trying to 20 reconcile. 21 : Yeah. 22 : Because the memo was 23 written on the 8th, provided to the captain. 24 They said, "Make sure it's fixed." She's 25 saying that the next time she saw you, on the EFTA00063218 84 1 10th, and finds out that the video wasn't 2 recorded, she says to you, why didn't you fix 3 this on the 8th? 4 : Yeah. Good luck. Yeah. 5 And because it doesn't even take me a day to 6 fix -. Those problems, it takes me a couple of 7 days, because I have to rebuild drives. Even 8 when I rebuild the drive, the next day it's not 9 going to work. 10 : Right. 11 : It's going to take a 12 couple of days. And after I rebuild the 13 drives, you have no video from the days prior. 14 I don't even know what video you have after the 15 drives start working. You have to go look to 16 see what video you have. 17 : Okay. So, again, I guess 18 that's the question of, why didn't you start 19 working on it immediately, on the 8th? 20 : Because I have no idea. 21 : Well -- 22 : Well, I was working on it, 23 but yeah. 24 : -- it was -. 25 : But, like, it looks like, EFTA00063219 85 1 it was a pattern of, okay, , it's a 2 priority, but it's not a priority. 3 : Okay. 4 : And for somebody to say 5 they wrote a memo to the captain, like, where 6 is there a memos before when this happened? 7 : And then, we'll have to 8 ask, I guess 9 : Yeah. 10 : -- (Indiscernible 11 *00:51:16) about previous memos. 12 : Yeah. There's got to be 13 previous memos. 14 : Okay. 15 : Yeah. This is - yeah, 16 that right there. 17 : So, you don't think that 18 that's accurate? 19 : No. I would not say that 20 that's accurate. I'm not trying to throw 21 anybody under the bus, but to say, like, this, 22 this day, like, it's bigger than any other time 23 it happened, like, come on, this has been 24 happening for months now. 25 : Okay. EFTA00063220 86 1 : It's been happening since 2 I got in that building. And I was at a 3 previous institution and like I said, if this 4 was a big deal, I wouldn't even go home. 5 , you've got to stay for overtime. 6 You've got to call SigNet. I'm going to give 7 you the key for the room. 8 : Well, that's what they 9 said that they did. Or at least Lieutenant 10 is saying that she told you that this is 11 a big deal, you've got to do it. 12 13 14 : Pfft. : Right now. And -- : Oh, yeah. Everybody is 15 trying to cover their tracks. No. This is not 16 the case. I could honestly say this is not the 17 case. 18 : All right. 19 : And it has never been 20 previous practice before. I had a facility 21 manager, (Phonetic Sp. 22 *00:52:05),my previous facility manager, I'm, 23 like, hey, the first time this happened, I 24 remember it because it was so weird to me that 25 they told me to go home. I was, like, well, at EFTA00063221 87 1 my other jail, if something wasn't working, I 2 couldn't leave. Like, if he radios go down, I 3 have to stay there until the radios are fixed. 4 Like, two months ago, the radios failed, and - 5 oh, three months ago - they failed in Brooklyn. 6 They called me from MCC New York, to go to 7 Brooklyn to help them with their radio system. 8 : Right. 9 : Their console. So, if 10 that was the case, they would have called MCC 11 to come, if I couldn't stay to fix the problem. 12 So, that's never been previous practice over 13 there. No. i4 : Okay. 15 : That's, like, that's news 16 to me. 17 : Now, are you aware that 18 the captain was notified? 19 : He probably - he should 20 have been notified. It's the captain's 21 equipment every time the camera is not 22 recording. 23 : All right. So, but you 24 do recall, you did speak on the 8th with the 25 lieutenant, with an -- EFTA00063222 88 1 : Yes. 2 : -- one of the two -- 3 : (Indiscernible *00:53:00). 4 : SIS. 5 : I talked to somebody on 6 the 8th. Yes. 7 : And you just can't 8 specifically even kind of put yourself back 9 into that? 10 : No. 11 : Do you remember, though, 12 on the 10th, saying, why 13 didn't you fix this? 14 : I was so busy with 15 everything else. Like, I don't even remember 16 that. 17 : So, you don't remember 18 that. 19 : No. I don't. 20 : Do you have any reason to 21 believe it wasn't that you 22 spoke with on the 8th? 23 : No. I don't believe so. 24 : You don't believe you 25 spoke with her, or you don't -. EFTA00063223 89 1 : No. I believe I spoke to 2 somebody from SIS. Because that's when who 3 If they were trying to pull video, and they 4 couldn't pull the video, that's when they would 5 tell me, hey, 6 : Right. 7 : -- there is a problem. 8 But other than that 9 : So -- 10 : -- there is no reason for 11 me to talk to anybody from SIS. 12 : So, it's a likely that it 13 was 14 : Yes. 15 : And is it likely that, on 16 the 10th, asked you why 17 wasn't this fixed? 18 19 20 21 If she was there, yeah. : Okay. : Yeah. : And is it likely that you 22 told her, on the 10th, that's why I'm here 23 today, to fix it? 24 : Yes. 25 : Okay. Is there anything EFTA00063224 90 1 2 3 4 that I read to you, from this, on the, you know, on the 8th is when you determined; on the 9th you couldn't gain access; and on the 10th is when you gained access to the DVR room -- 5 : Mm-hmm. 6 -- and you attempted to 7 replace the drives. Does that all sound 8 accurate? 9 : That sounds accurate. 10 Yes. 11 : All right. So, it is 12 that, on the 8th, you found out; the 9th, you 13 couldn't gain access -- 14 : (Indiscernible *00:54:11). 15 Yeah. 16 : -- and the 10th -. 17 : It was all (Indiscernible 18 *00:54:15). Yeah. 19 : Okay. So, now going 20 forward, though, we can at least have a 21 (Indiscernible *00:54:18). 22 a story of -- 23 : For what happened -- 24 : for what it is 25 : -- yes. Happened. EFTA00063225 91 1 : -- that happened. So 2 now, these questions might make a little more 3 sense. 4 : Okay. 5 : And -. 6 : Hey, can I ask him 7 something? 8 : Yeah. 9 : Before we go. 10 : Please. 11 : Okay. 12 : Please do. 13 : So, there is something 14 contradictory in between the 302 and the 15 SigNet. On the 302, it states that there was a 16 motherboard failed on DVR-2, on August 8th. 17 : Mm-hmm. 18 : It doesn't say that the 19 hard drives failed. It says the hard drives 20 failed on August 10th. 21 : Yeah. Could you -. 22 : That's two different 23 things. 24 : Mm-hmm. 25 : So, yeah. So -- EFTA00063226 92 1 : So, as -- 2 : -- according -. 3 : -- Agent 4 asked, what happened, and when did it happen? 5 : That, you would have to 6 call. I'm not too sure the dates of 7 everything. 8 : But this is, so, this was 9 the, this is the interview of you. 10 : Mm-hmm. Yes. 11 : So, the assumption is, 12 that you are the one who provided them this 13 information. Correct? 14 : Yes. I am. 15 : So, with you telling them 16 that a system failure of DVR-2 occurred on July 17 29th, 2019 -? 18 : I don't think I would have 19 given them exact dates because I don't remember 20 when all that stuff happened, to tell you the 21 truth. Me giving exact dates, that's, I can't 22 give exact dates. 23 : Okay. 24 : Yeah. 25 : And then, so you think EFTA00063227 93 1 that they actually located these dates on 2 themselves? 3 : Yeah. They probably would 4 have to call SigNet to get the exact dates. 5 : So, you don't think that 6 this is actually the information you provided 7 them during the interview? 8 : No. Because I wouldn't 9 have gave them -. There is no way I would have 10 had that, or remembered this. No. 11 : Okay. And then, saying 12 that the motherboard failed on DVR-2, on August 13 8th, 2019. 14 : That's something -. Yeah. 15 That's information they would have got from 16 SigNet. 17 : So, you don't believe 18 that this, you actually - this paragraph right 19 here - that you told them? You think that they 20 got that information 21 : Yeah. They probably -- 22 : -- outside of your 23 interview? 24 : -- collaborated it with 25 SigNet. Yes. Because me and - I don't even EFTA00063228 94 1 remember exact dates today. So, like, there's 2 no way I could remember exact dates. 3 : All right. , did 4 you want to follow up on that? 5 : No. I mean, yeah, it 6 comes from -. So, you're saying that the 7 statement in the 302 is inaccurate? 8 : No. 9 : No. 10 : No. He's not saying 11 that's inaccurate. 12 : I'm saying it's accurate, 13 but they probably found out dates. 14 : He's saying that he 15 thinks that they got this information based 16 upon another source, not from him. 17 : Not from me. 18 : Okay. 19 : Because I can't give you 20 exact dates. That's all. 21 : All right. So, there is 22 - just while we're on this 302 - there is 23 another part that says, "After the incident," 24 and that's the Epstein incident. 25 : I know. EFTA00063229 95 1 was asked about 2 the cameras." 3 : Mm-hmm. 4 : Who asked you about the 5 cameras? Do you recall? 6 : Pfft. The warden. 7 Everybody. Anybody that could think about 8 asking me questions asked. 9 : All right. "There were 10 two new hard drives to install." 11 : Yeah. 12 : "But installing the new 13 hard drives would mean that all prior data -- 14 : Yeah. 15 -- would be lost. 16 : Lost. Yeah. You would 17 lose all video. 18 : Oh. Lose all video or 19 lose all recording? 20 21 22 the old video? 23 : All the old video. Yes. : Oh, so, the recording of : Yes. Yeah. 24 : So, when you install 25 these new hard drives -- EFTA00063230 96 1 : The two new drives, and 2 everything would be gone. 3 everything is wiped. 4 : So, whatever video they 5 were looking for, it would be gone. So, 6 whatever they were trying to, it would be gone. 7 : Okay. It says, "The 8 Warden wanted video, and so was told to 9 start working on the system." 10 : Yes. 11 : So, at this time, was it 12 prior to replacing the new, the two new drives? 13 : Well, this time, that's 14 when I probably started replacing the drives. 15 : But if -- 16 : Yeah. 17 : -- if you replaced them 18 and all recording gets -- 19 : Wiped. 20 : -- wiped. 21 : Yeah. 22 : Then how would you be 23 able to obtain the video? 24 : Yeah, there is no video 25 obtained. EFTA00063231 97 1 : So, that's what I'm just 2 trying to make sense of what this states. So, 3 "The Warden wanted video, so 4 5 6 They wanted me to start -- : -- was told -." -- they wanted me to start 7 that day recording video. We will get the 8 recorder to work, though -- 9 : Oh. 10 : -- (Indiscernible 11 *00:57:52). 12 : Well, he didn't want 13 video of the incident -- 14 : Incident. 15 : -- he wanted video to 16 (Indiscernible *00:57:56). 17 : And then, he was trying to 18 see if there was video from the incident, and 19 I'm, like, there is no video. And that's when, 20 the next day, I find out there was a video on 21 the other recorder -- 22 : Okay. 23 : -- that, yeah, that other 24 camera. 25 : So, that helped explain EFTA00063232 98 1 it. When you were saying the warden wanted 2 video, you're talking about from that point 3 forward, the video 4 : The video. Yeah. 5 : -- he wanted the 6 recording to be working -- 7 : Yeah. He 8 : -- not the video of the 9 incident. 10 -- well, they wanted a 11 video of the incident, and the recorder to 12 start working. I'm, like, there's no video, 13 there's nothing I could do. I can't find any 14 video. 15 : Okay. 16 : That recorder is gone. 17 : I gotcha. 18 : So then, it was at that 19 point, okay, we'll get the recorder working, 20 and do whatever you got to do to get the 21 recorder working. 22 : Okay. So, it says, 23 " started removing the bad drives in 24 order to rebuild the DVR." 25 : Yeah. EFTA00063233 99 1 : Is that correct? 2 : Yes. 3 : So, are you the one that 4 actually removed the two -- 5 : The drives. 6 : -- drives? 7 : Yeah. 8 : And you -- 9 : And I labeled everything. 10 Yeah. 11 : -- and you put the new, 12 two new drives in? 13 : Yes. 14 : All right. 15 : And then, the FBI came and 16 stopped me in the middle of everything. 17 : It says, " advised 18 that the FBI agent was the one who pulled out 19 the DVR." 20 Yeah. Because I told 21 them, if you pull out the drives, that you're 22 going to have problems, there's going to be 23 corruption, because like I, like I told you 24 before, you pull out two drives, like, 25 everything is wiped. Even if there is a video EFTA00063234 100 1 from before. You just, you're, like, out of 2 luck. Because it's going to -- 3 : Now, can you just explain 4 that? What is it that they pulled? 5 : Two of the drives. 6 : They pulled the two 7 drives? 8 : Yeah. Yeah. Because I 9 was See, what happened was, I was going to 10 start rebuilding the drives, so I labeled 11 everything. It was, it was a mess. So, they 12 wanted me to -. Let me if I can think about 13 it. So, everything stopped working. I go in 14 the room, , you've got to get the 15 recorder working. Well, I got to pull the 16 drives out to get the recorder working. So, 17 the two drives that I pulled out. And so, the 18 two old drives, and the two new drives, I 19 labeled them, because I knew that it was going 20 to be a big thing. So, I got to pay attention 21 to what I'm doing. And then, in the midst of 22 all that, that's when they took the drives, and 23 said, hey, we need to stop doing everything. 24 : So, who is it that 25 actually pulled the bad drives out? You or the EFTA00063235 101 1 FBI? 2 : I pulled the bad drives 3 out to replace them with good drives. Yes. 4 : And you put the two new 5 drives in? 6 : Drives in. Yes. 7 : So, what is it that the 8 FBI pulled? 9 : They pulled all the 10 drives. 11 : So, you were rebuilding 12 it. And when you rebuilt it, they came in and 13 they just pulled them all out? 14 : Yeah. They would pull 15 them all. 16 : So, it was never able to 17 rebuild? 18 : Yes. 19 : All right. So, they 20 pulled all the drives. And so, when they said 21 the DVR. Is that different from -? 22 : Yeah. The DVR because 23 they pulled everything from DVR-1, and that was 24 the one that wasn't working. And then, DVR-2, 25 the one that was working, the next day, I had EFTA00063236 102 1 to get all the - well, the same day - I could 2 get all the important parts of the prison on 3 DVR-1, that wasn't working, on DVR-2, which I 4 probably should have done the day before, but 5 6 : So, it's DVR-2 that we're 7 speaking about. Correct? 8 : Yes. That was the good 9 drive. 10 : Oh, DVR-2 was the good 11 drive? 12 : Yes. 13 : But DVR-1 wasn't. Okay. 14 So, DVR. 15 : And what does this say? 16 DVR. DVR-2 is the good drive. DVR-1 is the 17 bad drive. 18 : Okay. So, DVR-1 -- 19 : That's not - no - that's 20 not what you said before. You said DVR-1 was 21 all good. DVR-2 went bad. 22 : Yes. 23 : Okay. So, DVR-2 was the 24 bad drive. 25 : Yes. EFTA00063237 103 1 : So, as far as DVR-2 being 2 the bad drive, is the DVR, is that the 16 3 drives, or is there a separate box -- 4 : No. It's the 16 drives, 5 and then, you have, like, the brain, some 6 motherboard, you know, the other computer on 7 the bottom, but -. 8 : So, when you say, when 9 they say that the FBI agent was the one who 10 pulled out the DVR, you're talking about all 16 11 -- 12 : All the, they probably 13 pulled the -- 14 : -- drives and 15 motherboard. 16 : -- they probably pulled -. 17 Yeah. They probably took all of the 18 recordings. But they had to take -. When I'm 19 talking about that the next day, because we 20 already had the new set, when all this 21 happened, SigNet came the next day, and we had 22 the new system up and running. Everything was 23 in boxes. So, he had to just come in and 24 install it. 25 : Okay. So -- EFTA00063238 104 1 2 3 4 : So, the next day, the FBI took both drives, DVR-1 and 2. : So, on the 11th, the FBI came and just took it all? 5 : They took it all. Yes. 6 : Everything? 7 : Everything. 8 : All right. Okay. So, it 9 says that, " also advised that he knew 10 that, by replacing both hard drives, the system 11 would be wiped. 12 : Mm-hmm. 13 : And that he had advised 14 personnel at MCC of that." 15 : Yes. 16 : Now, when you say, 17 "Wiped," it means just everything -- 18 : It means -- 19 : -- that was on it before? 20 : -- everything is gone. 21 Yes. There is no video. There's nothing. 22 : And do you know how far 23 that would have gone back to? 24 : No. 25 : No? EFTA00063239 105 1 : No. 2 : So, was that the case, 3 could have we obtained video off of those -? 4 : Other drives? Yes, before 5 I started rebuilding. Yes. But that's what I 6 was told to do. So, that's what I was 7 (Indiscernible *01:02:17). 8 : So, just explain that. 9 What could have we got off of it? And you're 10 talking about DVR-2 now, the bad drive. Right? 11 : DVR-1 is the bad drive. 12 : So, this is where I'm 13 getting confused. I thought we just said that 14 DVR-2 is the bad drive. I've got to get this 15 straight. , you just - I thought we 16 said, we did say that, but then you just chimed 17 in and said it was DVR-2 that was bad. Which 18 one was it? DVR-1 or 2 that was bad? 19 : DVR-1 is bad. 20 : In the initial part of the 21 interview, he stated that DVR-2 went bad, and 22 DVR-1 drives were all good. 23 : All right. Because yeah, 24 on the thing, it says -- 25 : Yeah, because everything EFTA00063240 106 1 was on DVR-2. 2 : -- "He attempted to 3 replace the drives, and he started to rebuild. 4 During the rebuild process of the drives, the 5 drives were required to be taken out of raid on 6 DVR-2." 7 : Yeah. I would say on DVR- 8 2. I'm sorry. I got confused. 9 : All right. So, DVR-2 is 10 the bad drive -- 11 : The bad drive. Yes. 12 : All right. So, on DVR-2, 13 the bad drive -- 14 : Yeah. 15 : -- could video have been 16 obtained? 17 : Yes, before I started 18 doing anything. Yes. 19 : So, prior to you pulling 20 them out, we may have been able to obtain video 21 from the 9th? 22 23 24 25 recording. : Hmm. No. : August 9th? : No. Because it wasn't EFTA00063241 107 1 • 2 • 3 drives. 4 ■ : All right. : Because you had two bad : So, what video are you 5 talking about when we said we could have 6 obtained video? 7 : Oh, well, saying that 8 stuff there is a possibility in the background, 9 even if you have two bad drives that stuff 10 could have been recording over it, but that's 11 their technical jazz. Like, I don't know 12 anything about that. 13 : So, in saying that 14 : But saying that -. 15 it sounds like, okay, 16 it is possible that we could have gotten video 17 -- 18 : Video. 19 : -- for August 9th and 20 10th. 21 : Yes. It is a possibility. 22 Not a strong possibility, but yeah. 23 : So, it is possible, but 24 once the two drives 25 : Yes. EFTA00063242 108 1 : -- were pulled -- 2 : Pulled. Yes. That was a 3 -- 4 : -- that possibility 5 became 6 : Yeah. 7 : -- impossible. 8 : It was gone. Yes. 9 : All right. Now, are 10 those two drives, are you -? When the SIS 11 official told you on the 8th that they weren't 12 able to go back -- 13 : To do. 14 : -- and review the video - 15 - 16 : Mm-hmm. 17 : -- if something was 18 recording in the background, would you have 19 been - you know, like you were talking about, 20 there is a possibility - would you have been 21 able to tell at that time? 22 : No. I wouldn't have been 23 able to tell. That's something SigNet would 24 have, or some expert, video expert, would have 25 -. EFTA00063243 109 1 2 3 : All right. : That's nothing above me. : Was your only course of 4 action to replace those two bad drives? 5 : Yes. 6 : So, would, regardless, 7 that video have been, at some point, deleted? 8 : Yes. 9 : And you were -. Who 10 instructed you to actually pull out those two 11 bad drives? 12 : I would just have to - I 13 probably talked to SigNet, or -. Well, and I 14 told SIS this before, like, if I pulled two 15 drives, there is no video, especially if it was 16 bad. 17 : Did you talk to anybody 18 on August 10th, prior to pulling them, that 19 there was a possibility that video of the 20 Epstein incident could have been retrieved? 21 : No. 22 : So, you didn't tell 23 anybody that? 24 : I'm not saying I didn't 25 tell anybody that, but that was -. I think EFTA00063244 110 1 that's something I found out later. Because 2 that's when SigNet was talking to me. But 3 that's not something I would have known before 4 Epstein. 5 : All right. 6 : Because that was something 7 we talked about, like, the days after that 8 happened. 9 : Because this 302 says, 10 %•% advised that an FBI agent was the one 11 who pulled out the DVR. also advised 12 that he knew that, by replacing both hard 13 drives, the system would be wiped, and that he 14 had advised personnel at MCC of that." 15 : Mm-hmm. There would be no 16 video. 17 : When did you do that? 18 : Before I started doing 19 anything. If I'm going to change drives, 20 you're going to know, like, it's -. Because I 21 know this was going to be bigger than just me 22 fixing the recorders. Like, there is other 23 things that are going to happen, but I'm going 24 to tell you, hey, if I do this, this is what's 25 going to happen. EFTA00063245 111 1 : But I thought you just 2 said that that's something you found out later. 3 : Later. But no, as far as 4 there being video on the background. 5 : Oh. 6 : Yeah. As far as -- 7 : So -. 8 : -- me pulling out the 9 drives, I already knew that before because 10 that's what happened the last time, when I 11 replaced two drives, that there was no old 12 video. It was just the new video. 13 : So, on the 10th, your 14 understanding, that there was no video from the 15 9th -- 16 : Or the 10th. i7 -- or 10th. 18 : Yes. That was my 19 understanding. 20 : So, therefore, yeah, and 21 at that time, you didn't know that there was a 22 possibility -- 23 : Possibility -- 24 : If things were recording 25 -- EFTA00063246 112 1 : -- going in the 2 background. 3 : -- in the background. 4 : Yes. 5 : And once the DVR, that 6 the two drives were pulled, that possibility 7 became -- 8 : Became an impossibility. 9 : -- an impossibility. 10 : Yes. 11 : Okay. Before we move on 12 from that, did anybody want to clarify any of 13 that? 14 : Yeah. 15 : What -- 16 : Go ahead. 17 technically, when you pull 18 a drive -- 19 : Mm-hmm. 20 : -- like, what happens? It 21 might be a technical question. 22 : Yeah. 23 : Like, how does everything 24 wipe? Is that -? 25 : Oh, well, it's, like, EFTA00063247 113 1 looking for ones and zeros, and if nothing is 2 lined up, from what the SigNet explained to me, 3 is one drive being bad is not really a problem, 4 because the other drives are going to -. It's 5 the redundant. So, it's the backup, it's going 6 to take over for that drive that's not working. 7 : Okay. 8 : But now, since this drive 9 is not working, and this one that's working is 10 taking, any drive is taking over for this 11 drive, and that drive goes bad, that means we 12 have two bad drives. That means nothing is 13 going to be recording. 14 : So, they work in conjunction 15 - 16 : Yeah. 17 : -- with the other one? 18 : Yeah. 19 : But the death of -- 20 : The redundant. 21 the death of one 22 : (Indiscernible *01:07:27). 23 is (Indiscernible 24 *01:07:25). Gotcha. 25 : And then, when they both EFTA00063248 114 1 die, you're done. 2 : Gotcha. And there's no way to 3 recover anything? 4 : Well, at the time, they 5 told me no, and then they said, well, there is 6 a possibility that it could have been recording 7 8 : Yeah. 9 : -- in the background, 10 after the fact. 11 : Okay. 12 : But that was something 13 more technical than my understanding, because 14 at the time, if something goes bad, just, you 15 know, take the drives out, put it in. And 16 then, this became a bigger thing. So now, 17 we're, like, well, there was still kind of a 18 possibility that more things would have been 19 happening. From my understanding. That's what 20 SigNet told me. 21 : Okay. 22 : All right. And then, for 23 clarity purposes, when - again, on the 8th, you 24 found out that this was an issue, and that you 25 had to replace the drives -- EFTA00063249 115 1 : Mm-hmm. 2 : -- when did you obtain 3 the new drives? 4 : It had to be some time 5 during that day or the next day. I probably 6 was looking for drives, because if I -- 7 : Because you said -- 8 : -- if I knew -- 9 you got them, and you 10 got them from the CSM? 11 : Yeah. 12 : Okay. And you just don't 13 know if that, you got them from CSM on the 8th 14 or the 9th? 15 : The 9th. Yeah. I know I 16 got some drives from him before because we've 17 gotten, I've gotten old drives from him before. 18 And I know we've ordered drives. I'm not too 19 sure if I ordered a whole bunch of drives to 20 just replace all 16, or whatever, how many are 21 in the raid. But we were, that was going to be 22 the next step, to just rebuild everything. 23 : Now, if it was your 24 project, and you are the camera guy, why did he 25 have the drives and not you? EFTA00063250 116 1 : Because he has all the 2 hard drives in the building. Like, me having 3 the hard drives is not part of my job 4 description. But -- 5 : All right. So -- 6 -- I could have them, but 7 he's got more, like, readily available ones. 8 And everything that I had was from the old 9 stuff that wasn't working from before. 10 : Okay. 11 : So, if I pulled something 12 from that, something that wasn't working 13 before, I don't know if it was bad. That's why 14 it's on the shelf. Because nothing was labeled 15 bad. It was just on the shelf. That's, it was 16 a mess, that whole area was a mess. 17 : Okay. Where was his 18 equipment stored? 19 : Oh, the CSM? 20 : Yes. 21 22 23 near the -? 24 25 the first floor. : His is in the server room. : Is that within the SIS, : No. That's downstairs, in EFTA00063251 117 1 : Okay. So, the server 2 room is in the computer server room? 3 : Yes. Yeah. 4 : Nothing to do with the 5 cameras? 6 : No. 7 : All right. So, you would 8 have had to have gone to him 9 : Gone up to him -- 10 -- within the -? 11 -- with the, yeah, at the 12 time, like, hey, , you got some drives? I 13 don't have any drives. 14 : Okay. So, what -? Can 15 you just explain what steps it is? You found 16 out on the 8th. What steps did you take in 17 order to resolve this issue? Do you know if 18 you -? Did you call SigNet on the 8th, or did 19 you call them on the 10th? Because the way 20 that this -. The way that this reads, just 21 look at these comments. It says this comment 22 was made on the 8th, at 3:38 p.m. -- 23 : Mm-hmm. 24 : -- and where it says, "Hi 25 Unable to locate anything official -- EFTA00063252 118 1 : Mm-hmm. 2 : -- the basic steps are as 3 follows. Set the raid level -- 4 : Uh-huh. 5 : -- it none and save. It 6 will So, what is going on here? What are 7 these instructions? This is supposed to be 8 specific to this incident. 9 : Mm-hmm. 10 : Do you follow what's 11 going on there? 12 : Yeah. Oh, so, I called 13 them on Thursday. And I probably started to 14 rebuild on Friday. But I couldn't do the 15 rebuild on Friday. 16 : So, you called them on 17 Thursday? What, to obtain the instructions? 18 : I already knew what I had 19 to do. I always just call them to make sure 20 I'm doing everything right. 21 : All right. So, on 22 Thursday, you called them. 23 : Mm-hmm. 24 : And are these 25 instructions that I'm looking at, though, on EFTA00063253 119 1 this comment from August 8th, 2019, at 3:38 2 p.m.? 3 : Yeah. It looks like 4 that's right. When I - that's where I do the 5 rebuild, probably. Those are probably the 6 instructions to do the rebuild. 7 : Yeah. 8 : For two drives. 9 : And do you understand who 10 it's - when it says, "Hi Unable to 11 locate anything official." - do you know who it 12 is that is talking there? 13 : It could be 14 or 15 : Hey. Can I -- 16 : That was 17 can I clarify that? 18 Because I didn't -. We know that that comment 19 right there is by (Phonetic Sp. 20 *01:11:18). He's a Qognify support engineer. 21 : Okay. 22 : And that's the 23 instructions that he provided to give you. 24 : Okay. 25 : Okay. EFTA00063254 120 1 : All right. And do you 2 know when you would have received those 3 instructions? Would it have been on the 8th? 4 : Yes. 5 : Okay. And you're saying, 6 the reason why you didn't do it on the 8th is 7 because -- 8 : I didn't have the drives. 9 : -- you didn't have the 10 drives 11 : Uh-huh. 12 : -- to do it? 13 : Yeah. 14 : All right. So then, on 15 the 9th, you got -- 16 : The drives. 17 : -- the drives? 18 : Yes. 19 : But you got them later in 20 the day 21 : Late. 22 • -- is what you're saying? 23 : Yes. And I didn't have 24 access to go in the room. 25 : And III told you that you EFTA00063255 121 1 -- 2 : Can't go in there. 3 : -- couldn't be in there? 4 : Yes. 5 : And do you specifically 6 recall being the one who said you can't 7 come in here? 8 : Well, he's just, like, if 9 I'm gone for the day, there was nobody else 10 there. He was the only one with the key. 11 : So, again, if we speak to 12 him, is he going to say, yeah, I told him he 13 can't come in? 14 : Yeah. Yeah. He knows I 15 can't come in. Because it's the evidence room, 16 too. So, yeah. 17 : Yeah. We talked to SIS 18 about that. She said there was not an 19 evidence room in there. 20 : It's still an evidence 21 room right now. If you go there. 22 : Mm-hmm. 23 : That's where I 24 : Well, maybe now, but what 25 is it on the 9th? EFTA00063256 122 1 2 evidence room. 3 4 : -- it's always been the : Because she said, yeah : It's not going to be -- 5 : -- she said there were 6 files in there, but there's no evidence. 7 : Yeah. Every contraband 8 they get from inmates, that's where they store 9 everything. 10 11 12 13 14 -- 15 16 *01:12:28). 17 18 still, there's junk 19 video room. That's 20 had with this whole : In that area? : In that area. Yes. : Where the -? : Yes. And if you go there : Where (Indiscernible -- right now, there's in there. It's not just a the biggest problem that I thing, was that at other 21 institutions, when you have a video room, you 22 just have a video room. There is nothing else 23 in there. There's just the com techs. You go 24 in, you do whatever you got to do, you come 25 out. There should not be anything else mixed EFTA00063257 123 1 with the room. 2 3 : Okay. : And up to this day, there 4 is still evidence and garbage in that room. 5 : Okay. 6 : So, it is not a video 7 room. 8 : Can you just look on the 9 9th, what time did III work until? 10 : Hold on. 11 : Did you say 7:00 to 12 : On the 9th. Bear with me. 13 Nine. So, this falls under either 7:00 to 14 3:00, or 8:00 to 4:00. 15 : Okay. 16 : So, it was later than me 17 staying for And you could just check my 18 overtime, too, to see what time I stayed. So, 19 if I did overtime that day. 20 : All right. But point 21 being, is you didn't go in and fix them on that 22 day? 23 : No. 24 : All right. So, when you 25 say you didn't have access to the room, you are EFTA00063258 124 1 saying you didn't have access to the room after 2 3:00 p.m.? 3 : Yes. 4 : And you 5 : Or whatever time. 6 : -- because usually -- 7 : Yeah. 8 : -- your shift was from 9 6:00 a.m. to -- 10 : 6:00 -- 11 : -- 2:00 p.m. 12 : -- 2:00 -- 13 : Correct? 14 : -- yeah, but I was doing a 15 project. So, I don't know what overtime. I 16 was probably doing overtime. So, I was working 17 maybe 12 hours, 16 hours. 18 : And this is just one of 19 those things we're going to have really 20 reconcile here, because 21 : Mm-hmm. 22 : -- as you know, this is 23 such a big part of this thing -- 24 : Mm-hmm. 25 : -- that we don't have a EFTA00063259 125 1 video. Why didn't you, from 6:00 to 2:00, fix 2 this thing? 3 : Because I was doing other 4 things. This wasn't -. This was a priority, 5 but, and the fact, like I said, this was not, 6 like, the main priority in the building. Oh, 7 the recorders aren't working? Okay. Well, all 8 right, it's not, like, oh, not, this is what 9 you have to make. Now, after Epstein, like, 10 oh, this is the main thing you have to focus on 11 for the day. 12 : Okay. So, you didn't get 13 to it until after you took care of a bunch of - 14 15 : Other stuff. 16 : -- other stuff. 17 : Yes. 18 : And by the time you got 19 to it, at the end of your shift, basically, it 20 sounds like? 21 : Yes. 22 : That there wasn't enough 23 time to do it? 24 : To do it. Yeah. Yeah. 25 : But you could have gained EFTA00063260 126 1 access between -- 2 3 : 6:00. : -- at least when he was 4 working there, 7:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. 5 : Yes. 6 : But you just didn't? 7 : No. 8 : Okay. When you 9 : I have a few questions. 10 : yup. Go ahead. 11 : I have a question. I know 12 you might have actually answered this question, 13 but just I, I probably didn't hear it. But you 14 said that you spoke to MCC personnel about the 15 date of being wiped. Who specifically did you 16 speak to? 17 : It would be somebody in 18 SIS. 19 : It would be somebody 20 where? 21 : Or I'm pretty sure I told 22 the warden, too, because this was a big deal. 23 That on the, on that Saturday, when everything 24 happened, like, you know, if I pulled these, 25 there's going to be no video at all. EFTA00063261 127 1 : And is this the 2 conversation you had directly with the captain? 3 : No. This would have been 4 the warden, or SIS. I really didn't see the 5 captain that day. I don't remember seeing the 6 captain or talking to the captain. 7 : Was this a big -- 8 : I would just -- 9 -- sorry. 10 -- that day -- 11 : -- this was a big 12 conversation. 13 : -- yeah, when 14 : Yeah. 15 : -- everybody was asking me 16 questions. It was mainly SIS and the warden I 17 was dealing with. I wasn't really dealing with 18 anybody else. 19 : But you don't recall 20 exactly who you told, hey