F1).302 (Rev 5.8.10)

F1).302 (Rev 5.8.10) -1 of 8 - FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION OFFICIAL OECORC1 Dredermy 02/13/2020 date of birth was interviewed at Present for the interview was AUSA attorney Alter being advised of the identities of the above listed individuals and the nature of the interview, provided the following information: IIIIIIIIitated that she has not spoken to the abuse or the case at all. had a brief conversation on one occasion in which laims she did not know this was happening. This conversation happened prior to JEFFREY EPSTEIN getting arrested in 2008. about and they discussed the case. currently lives there. ias a great memory and feels as though the government should speak with him. remembers EPSTEIN and MAXWELL and he recalls having dinner with Illi them. remembers sleeping at EPSTEIN's cabin in Interlochen. currently lives in recalls that MAXWELL wanted to sleep with him. EPSTEIN asked to have his friends come over to his house for auditions. immeasmitmm 12/17/2019 at Filet by 50D-NY-3027571 In Person) Dmtedithed 01/14/2020 Ibis document coots= anther teconoseodatioos an coachman oldie FBI. h n die motley ti the FBI sod is loomed to yorld agency. it sad its mounts re am to be damnbmed cam& your agency 3509-005 Pagelof8 SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER PARAGRAPHS 7, 8, 9, 10, 15, and 17 EFTA_00006934 EFTA00158482 ED-30231Am 54.10) SOD-NY-3027571 Continuation oil:D-302a (U) Interview of 12/17/2019 .0, 12/17/2019 Jaw 2 of 8 knew EPSTEIN. Around the time that was 18-19 years old she was dating someone who was very possessive. He knew of EPSTEIN but didn't know about the abuse. He just did not want to be around EPSTEIN because he was possessive. once told her that she had been abused by EPSTEIN. does not know the details. is still friends with and she talks to him frequently. knows speaking with prosecutors. the time. lives i is an ex boyfriend of that knew of EPSTEIN at spoke with bout the abuse. is spoke with her about the case. He previous attorney knew of the abuse. hired prior to her getting married to help with everything about her coming out in the media. At 13-14 years old was not mature looking at all. She was skinny and looked very for her age. was very looking. first experience of abuse was when she was about 14 years old in New York. She met EPSTEIN to take head shots and that is when he masturbated. Around this time was attending spent the summer of 1997 in New York. GHISLAINE MAXWELL was generally present around and EPSTEIN between when she was 14-18 years old. Both EPSTEIN and MAXWELL tried to groom and make her feel safe. was never really sure what EPSTEIN and MAXWELL's relationship was. MAXWELL would talk about boyfriends to . She would take shopping and to the movies. She would normalize things for . MAXWELL would say things like "this is what grown ups do" if 3509-005 Page 2 of 8 SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER PARAGRAPHS 7, 8, 9, 10, 15, and 17 EFTA_00006935 EFTA00158483 FD-302a (Rev. 54.10) SOD-NY-3027571 Conitnuation oil:D-302a (U) Interview of 12/17/2019 .0, 12/17/2019 Jag, 3 of 8 you want to get ahead. Fairly early on MAXWELL "joined in" and started taking her clothes off. This was about six months into being with them. was still 14 at this time. does not have a specific memory of the first time. When MAXWELL would join in EPSTEIN would tell someone, either a girl or girls, to massage him. Initially it was just alone with EPSTEIN. He would want to shower. Then he would ask her to rub his feet on the bed after. Then he would start masturbating. EPSTEIN would pull around, and put her in his lap. He would touch her first as he was masturbating. EPSTEIN used toys and vibrators on . This was all while was 14 and 15 years old. By the time was 16 years old, she was basically trained to do what EPSTEIN wanted. At first, was allowed to leave her underwear on but then it progressed. MAXWELL began participating in the foot massages. That's how she started. had a hard time looking at MAXWELL during these encounters. MAXWELL would usually be topless and keep her thong on. MAXWELL would be chatty and would coach the other girls on what to do. does not have a recollection, is not sure if MAXWELL touched her during these encounters. MAXWELL did touch other girls, possibly kissing and touching them. As the abuse got worse with EPSTEIN, felt as though there was less and less people around. MAXWELL was not around as much and it became more one-on-one to make her feel special. does not specifically remember MAXWELL using toys or vibrators on her. EPSTEIN, MAXWELL and would just be somewhat hanging out typically when she would be directed to the massage room or the bedroom where the abuse would occur. The abuse would occur in Florida, New York and New Mexico. In Florida, it would occur in the pool house or bedroom. In New York, it would occur in the bedroom or the massage room. In New Mexico, it would occur in the bedroom or the massage room. In all three locations there was always a massage table involved. EPSTEIN's assistant ,ias also involved in the abuse. thought recently talked to that it ruined her life. was only two years older than her. just about the case. was emotional and stated 3509-005 Pagc3of8 SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER PARAGRAPHS 7, 8, 9, 10, 15, and 17 EFTA_00006936 EFTA00158484 FD-302a (Rev. 54.10) SOD—NY-3027571 ConlinuationolFD-302 or (U) Interview of 12/17/2019 .0, 12/17/2019 Jae., 4 of 8 EPSTEIN had a god complex. feels as though his victims had a class system. was involved in the abuse. MAXWELL was still participating in the sex acts when was 17 years old. At 18, 19 and 20 years old did not see MAXWELL as much. does not recall there being a hard cut off for MAXWELL and her participation. MAXWELL participated in Florida, New York and New Mexico all when was between the ages of 14-17 years old. estimates MAXWELL participated about 25% of the time. The times MAXWELL did not participate she either wasn't in the house or maybe EPSTEIN did not want her involved at that time. was not sure if MAXWELL was present when EPSTEIN used a vibrator on her. was not sure if MAXWELL was present for other acts performed by EPSTEIN. does recall that MAXWELL was present for the times when everyone was naked in the room and EPSTEIN was touching was not sure if she recalls MAXWELL talking about sex acts involving EPSTEIN. MAXWELL would talk about her with other boyfriends. was not sure if MAXWELL talked about how EPSTEIN liked to be massaged. EPSTEIN was normally the one directing the whole encounter so MAXWELL fell to the sidelines a bit. mostly kept her head down and hoped they would focus on someone else more than her. was not sure if MAXWELL talked about the encounters after the fact. There was typically not much discussion. There was not much feedback after either. was fat shamed by EPSTEIN around the age of 16. EPSTEIN would take Polaroid photos of her in her underwear and tell her that her ass looked big. EPSTEIN wanted to wear white cotton underwear and bras. EPSTEIN and MAXWELL took to "Victoria's Secret" about two times to buy her this underwear. They would also take shopping to buy preppy clothing. MAXWELL did not take photos of nor was she around for the photos being taken. There was less abuse of if EPSTEIN had a lot of friends around. was not asked to be passed around to other people and did not have 3509-005 Pagc4of8 SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER PARAGRAPHS 7, 8, 9, 10, 15, and 17 EFTA_00006937 EFTA00158485 ED-302a (Rev. 54.10) SOD-NY-3027571 Conitnuation olTD-302 or (U) Interview of 12/17/2019 .on 12/17/2019 Jag, 5 of 8 an idea that others were being passed around. During the summer of when was 16 turning 17 she stayed in New York in one of EPSTEIN's apartments. Sometimes she would stay with III and sometimes she would stay at EPSTEIN's house. Sometimes, if she stayed in one of his apartments she wouldn't see EPSTEIN and that was a relief to her. There were times that was not abused but was just brought over to be shown off. One time she was brought over to say happy birthday to MIKE WALLACE. On one occasion, the dean of Interlochen was there for a cocktail party. met him through EPSTEIN. This man was also the dean of admissions for Juilliard. was one of EPSTEIN's private chefs in New York. did travel with him once to New Mexico when was there. does not recall hearing MAXWELL and EPSTEIN having sexual conversations or talking about the abuse or the orgies. During the encounters MAXWELL would massage or rub breasts, but was not totally sure. MAXWELL gave the big sister vibe so that it made it uncomfortable for to watch MAXWELL during these encounters. would try not to look, so MAXWELL may have been active with other girls. If it was just MAXWELL and EPSTEIN, was made to be more sexual. MAXWELL was present for oral sex encounters. Possibly in New York on the massage table. There was a girl there, and EPSTEIN made her sit on top of him and have sex with him. She may have been a real masseuse. She had short blonde hair and was pretty, possibly named A couple of times, EPSTEIN had sex with other girls in the context of the massage that witnessed, somewhere around five times. Typically, EPSTEIN would pull them onto him and have sex with them. They were all girls who looked like models. MAXWELL would not be surprised when this would happen, she would have almost no reaction. The orgies would occur in the massage room typically. has some recollection of this happening in the bed with about two other girls. Many of the interactions with only EPSTEIN and happened in his bed. 3509-005 Pagc5of8 SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER PARAGRAPHS 7, 8, 9, 10, 15, and 17 EFTA_00006938 EFTA00158486 FD-302a (Rev. 54.10) SOD-NY-3027571 Conitnuation orED-302 or (U) Interview of 12/17/2019 .on 12/17/2019 Jag, 6 of 8 Others performing oral sex on EPSTEIN was more common to happen than sex. MAXWELL was probably not present for the times EPSTEIN had perform oral sex on him. MAXWELL would have been present for other girls performing oral sex on EPSTEIN. MAXWELL would have no reaction to this. Afterwards, no one acted as though this was not appropriate. On one occasion in New York, one girl cried when she was called into the massage room because she had a boyfriend and felt she didn't want to do this anymore. The other girls told her it was ok and she could stay back and EPSTEIN wouldn't notice. described the pool house in Florida to have a futon or couch in it, a kitchenette, a TV and a shower. The abuse would occur on the couch in that room. was asked if EPSTEIN ever used a vibrator or sex toy on her while MAXWELL was around. She responded by stating she did not recall but it was possible. was asked if MAXWELL was ever present when EPSTEIN was masturbating with present and she responded yes. generally while EPSTEIN was masturbating would rub his feet, pinch his nipples or rub his shoulders. EPSTEIN would masturbate while using toys on MAXWELL would be unbelievably casual about the experiences. In regards to visiting them, MAXWELL or EPSTEIN or EPSTEIN's secretary would call felt that sometimes it was more of an order and added that less of a request. The calls went through either would tell her to be respectful. On a few occasions, both answered the phone when EPSTEIN called the house. During these calls to book travel they were told when they were planning on leaving, and whether by private jet or commercial. In the beginning, was primarily on EPSTEIN's private jet. She flew on his jet about a handful of times. When flying commercial she possibly flew Continental. A ticket would be delivered to door. EPSTEIN's driver would take to and from the airport. Early on, MAXWELL would coordinate 3509-005 Pagc6of8 SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER PARAGRAPHS 7, 8, 9, 10, 15, and 17 EFTA_00006939 EFTA00158487 F0.30(2.1(Itet54.10) SOD-NY-3027571 Cm iimmtion of F0.302 of (U) Interview of 12/17/2019 o, 12/17/2019 p 7 of 8 most of the travel. She would call and book the flight. While in New York, would mostly stay in EPSTEIN's apartment. On one occasion, MAXWELL came to the gate while was trying to fly out of New York. This was prior to 9/11. MAXWELL would talk to the flight attendants to get on the plane because she was only 16 years old and did not have a photo ID. didn't miss much school to travel to see EPSTEIN so she typically traveled on weekends and holidays. MAXWELL would ordinarily be with on EPSTEIN's jet but not always. When would fly together from Florida to New York with MAXWELL and EPSTEIN, sexual abuse would then occur after the fact at some point in New York during that trip. Anytime came to New York it was in connection to being with EPSTEIN and MAXWELL. remembered talking to MAXWELL about using either the private jet or a commercial flight. When flew on the private jet she just walked on. She would be asked her name and weight. EPSTEIN would send a car and the driver would be someone that worked at the house. He was a Latin American man. His wife also worked in the house. Their names may have been would get picked up and then driven to EPSTEIN's house. Then they would all drive together to the jet. When flew commercially she would go by herself. She would get driven to the airport by EPSTEIN's driver. Tickets were sent to house via messenger service in New York, or in Florida his driver would drop the tickets to . It also could have been that the driver picked up to bring her to the airport and already had the ticket with him. After meeting EPSTEIN, it was quick for her to be brought to New York. was still 14 years old when this started. MAXWELL was present in the room when EPSTEIN was masturbating. is confident of that and EPSTEIN was likely touching other women at that time. There was a massage therapist in Florida that was reoccurring. She was pretty, had long hair but was not smart. She was possibly named and would give sexual massages. recently spoke with on 11/2/2019. They are still friends. 3509-005 Pagc7of8 SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER PARAGRAPHS 7, 8, 9, 10, 15, and 17 EFTA_00006940 EFTA00158488 ED.30Ca(tet54.10) 50D-NY-3027571 Cm iimmtion of F0.302 of ( U ) Interview of 12/17/2019 o, 12/17/2019 pase 8 of 8 then gave permission to investigators to reach out to the following individuals who may have information pertaining to this investigation. Additionally she provided their phone numbers: or 3509-005 Pagc8of8 SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER PARAGRAPHS 7, 8, 9, 10, 15, and 17 EFTA_0000694 I EFTA00158489