Original Transcript

Original Transcript IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE FIFrEENTII JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND FOR PALM BEACH COUNTY, FLORIDA CIVIL, DIVISION L.M., Plaintiff, vs. CASE No. 502008CA0280513OOOCMB AB JEFFREY EPSTEIN, Defendant. DEPOSITION OF VOLUME H October, 20, 2009 10:10 a.m. 515 N. Flagler Drive Suite 200-P West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Reported By: Teresa Whalen, RPR, FPR, Notary Public, State of Florida S ESQUIRE •n Al noel. Vall•Compny Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 wvnv.esoulresolutIons.com EFTA00182476 • • • EFTA00182477 131 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE FIFTEENTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND FOR PALM BEACH COUNTY, FLORIDA CIVIL DIVISION CASE No.502008CA028051XXXXMB AB L.M., -vs- JEFFREY EPSTEIN, Plaintiff, Defendant. DEPOSITION OF VOLUME II Tuesday, October, 20, 2009 10:10 - 3:30 p.m. D15 N. Flagler Drive, Suite 200-P West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Reported By: Teresa Whalen, RPR, FPR Notary Public, State of Florida West Palm Beach Office Job #118991 • 0 ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile. 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 way.esquIresoludons.com EFTA00182478 - Volume II October 20, 2009 132 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA 4 7 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CASE No.08-CV-80119-CIV-MARRA/JOHNSON JANE DOE NO. 2, Plaintiff, -vs- JEFFREY EPSTEIN, Defendant. Related cases: 08-80232, 08-80380, 98-80381, 08-80994, 08-80993, 08-80811, 08-80893, 09-80469, 09-80591, 09-80656, 09-80802, 09-81092 / DEPOSITION OF VOLUME II Tuesday, October 20, 2009 10:10 - 3:30 p.m. 515 N. Flagler Drive, Suite 200-P West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Reported By: Teresa Whalen, RPR, FPR Notary Public, State of Florida West Palm Beach Office Job 11118991 Phone: ESQLTLRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquiresolutlons.com EFTA00182479 - Volume II October 20, 2009 133 • 7 10 11 12 13 • 14 15 16 17 18 19 2C 21 22 23 24 25 APPEARANCES: On behalf of the Defendant: ROBERT D. CRITTON, JR., ESQUIRE BURMAN CRITTON LUTTLER & COLEMAN, LLP 303 Banyan Boulevard, Suite 400 West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Phone: On behalf of Plaintiff L.M.: BRADLEY J. EDWARDS, ESQUIRE CARA L. HOLMES, ESQUIRE ROTHSTEIN ROSENFELDT ADLER 401 E. Las Olas Boulevard, Suite 1650 Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33394 Phone: On behalf of the Witness: BRUCE E. REINHART, ESQUIRE LAW OFFICE OF BRUCE E. REINHART 250 S. Australian Avenue, Suite 1400 West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Phone: On behalf of Defendants/Jane Does 2 - 8: STUART S. MERMELSTEIN, ESQUIRE MERMELSTEIN & HOROWITZ, P.A. 18205 Biscayne Boulevard, Suite 2218 Miami, Florida 33160 Phone: On behalf of Plaintiff in related Case No. 08-80811 JACK HILL, ESQUIRE (Partially via speakerphone) SEARCY, DENNEY, SCAROLA, BARNHART & SHIPLEY 2139 Palm Beach Lakes Boulevard West Palm Beach, Florida 33409 Phone: • 0 ESQUIRE Toil Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquIresolutions.corn EFTA00182480 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 WITNESS: 134 INDEX DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS BY MR. EDWARDS: 5 190 BY MR. MERMELSTEIN: 135 208 BY MR. HILL: 156 BY MR. CRITTON: 173 EXHIBITS NUMBER DESCRIPTION PAGE DEPENDANT'S EX. 1 COPIES, COMPOSITE PHOTOGRAPHS 103 DEFENDANT'S EX. 2 COMPOSITE PHONE MESSAGE BOOK 147 DEFENDANT'S EX. 3 COPY OF PHOTOGRAPH 162 ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquiresolutions.corn EFTA00182481 • • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 135 PROCEEDINGS - - Deposition taken before Teresa Whalen, Registered Professional Reporter, Florida Professional Reporter, and Notary Public in and for the State of Florida at Large, in the above cause. (Mr. Hill joined the proceedings in person.) CROSS ( BY MR. MERMELSTEIN: O Good afternoon. Is it all right if I call you A Yes. Q Okay. My name is Stuart Mermelstein, I also represent some plaintiffs in these cases, and it is my turn to ask you some questions. We were talking about when Mr. Epstein was in jail, which was between June 30th of 2008 and July of 2009; correct? A Yes. Q Now, during that time you weal. Lu work your regular schedule at 358 El Brillo Way; is that correct? A Yes. • So you were working basically -- MR. CRITTON: She's not finished. • 0 ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 000 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 wurw.esquiresolutions.com EFTA00182482 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 136 BY MR. MERMELSTEIN: Q I'm sorry. Go ahead. MR. REINHART: Do you need to expand on your answer? BY MR. MERMELSTEIN: Q Were you finished? A I worked regular hours, but sometimes there are times that I report eight, sometimes I report nine o'clock. Q And I believe A It's flexible. Q Okay. And it was after he left jail that you started working at 6:00 a.m., correct? A Yee. Q So whether you start work at eight or nine is your choice? When you say "it's flexible," it means you can chose whether to come at eight or nine? A Yes. When he was not there. Q Okay. It didn't matter whether you there at eight or nine when he was not there, correct? A No. Q And what kind of things did you do at the house -- let me ask the question this way. How were your duties different when he was not there during the time he was in jail from when he would CIO ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beath Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquiresolutions.com EFTA00182483 - Volume II October 20, 2009 137 • • 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 come there before he went to jail? A When he was in jail? • Yes. A I clean the house. Q You had less to clean, is that fair to say, because Mr. Epstein, I assume, based on your testimony, there were much fewer people in the house than before, correct? A Yes. I made inventory of the linens. Q I'm sorry? A Of the linens, I made inventory of the linens. Oh. Inventory of the linens? A Inventory. Q Okay. So you did that. And what else did you do to fill the time? A Wash the clothes that was in storage, you know. Q You washed clothes in storage? A Yes. Because it was right there, so I just wash it and then press if it needs pressing. Q So he has clothes stored outside of Lhe house? A No. In the house. Q In the house. Okay. So even if they hadn't been worn, you washed them, correct? A And press them. • 0 ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquiresolutions.com EFTA00182484 1 2 3 4 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 2C, 20C9 138 MR. CRITTON: Form. THE WITNESS: Yes. BY MR. MERMELSTE:N: Q What other type of things did you do while he wasn't there? A If there are plants, I attend to the plants. Q Okay. Is that something you didn't do before he went to jail? A I do that also when before he went to jail. 0 Okay. A If there are orchids or plants in the house, then I attend to it. Q I guess my question is what kind of projects did you work on when he was not there to fill your time after he went to jail? A Cleaning, tidying, just going around the house. If I see something that needs painting, I tell Janusz. Q Now, are you paid on the basis of a yearly salary, or are you paid weekly or monthly; how does that work? A We are paid twice a month. Q Okay. That's when you receive your pay? A Yes. Q I guess my question is this: Say you have to 0 ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquireSOlUtiOns.COm EFTA00182485 - Volume II October 20, 2009 • • 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 139 take a half a day of work off, do you get paid for that? A Yes. In my situation. Q I'm sorry. In your what? A In my situation I was paid. Q Okay. So you're on like a fixed salary, if you miss some time you still get the same amount of money, correct? A Yes. Q And I take it that during the period in which Mr. Epstein was in jail, you continued to receive the same salary, plus a raise, I assume, at the beginning of the year; correct? A Yes. Q So you continued to receive the same salary that you did before Mr. Epstein went to jail, correct? A Yes, sir. Q Did Mr. Epstein ever pay bonuses or any extra money to you? A Yes. Q What kind of bonuses did you receive? A Yearly bonus. Q You get a yearly bonus. When is that paid, is that paid at holiday time, Christmas time? A After the year. Q At the end of the year? • ESQUIRE, Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquiresolutions.com EFTA00182486 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 140 A At the end of the year. Q At New Years? A New Years. Q And this past year, when 2008 became 2009, how much of a bonus did you receive? A I did not receive any. Q And what about before that, what kind of bonus did you receive? A The yearly bonus. • Okay. What would be the amount of the yearly bonus? A Oh. For me? The last one I receive was 5,000. • Okay. So this would be in addition to your salary of $42,000? A Yes. Q And this $5,000 bonus you would have received in or about January 2008; is that correct? A Not eight. Q Pardon? A Not eight. We did not get any bonus in 2008. Q Okay. So when was the last time you received a $5,000 bonus? A I think 2007. Q So it's been two years since you've gotten a 0 ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquiresolutions.corn EFTA00182487 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 141 bonus; is that correct? A Let me see. Yes. Q Okay. Did Mr. Epstein explain to you why he wasn't giving you a bonus in the last two years? A He did not personally told us. Q Did someone tell you why you were not getting a bonus? A Janusz was informed, and Janusz informed me. Q Okay. Did Janusz give you a reason why you weren't getting a bonus? A Because of the economy, that's what he said. • Any other reason that he gave? A No, sir. Q Did you receive a $5,000 bonus for 2006 and 2005? A It was different, it gradually increased. • Okay. A It was not the same amount. Q What was the bonus in 2006 and 2005? A 2005 was 2,000. Q Uh-huh. A And then the next is 5,000 and 5,000. • Okay. So correct me if I am wrong, but in January 2005 you received a $2,000 bonus? A Yes. • ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Sun& 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquiresolutions.com EFTA00182488 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 142 Q And at that point in time you had really just started a month and a half before? A No. I want to correct that. I receive a 500 after I started there November. Q Yes. November of 2004 you started? A At Christmas I receive, after Christmas I receive $500. Q Okay. So in January of 2005 you receive $500, correct? A Yes. Q Then in January 2006 you received how much? A 2,000. Q And in January 2007 you received 5,000; is that correct? A Yes. Q And in January 2008 you received no bonus? A No. Q Is that correct? A Correct. Q Correct, you received no bonus? A No bonus. Q And the same in January 2009, correct? A Correct. Q Has Mr. Epstein advised you, discussed with you at all how much of a bonus you're going to receive ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 vivethesqulresolutions.com EFTA00182489 • • 1 2 3 4 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1IIIIIIIIIIIII- Volume II October 20, 2009 143 after the holidays this year? A No, sir. Q Has anyone discussed with you what bonus you will receive after the holidays this year? A No. 0 Do you have any expectation as to what kind of bonus you'll receive? A I don't -- I did not expect anything. Q You testified earlier about a who is the housekeeper in New York, correct? A Yes. Q Now, when was the first time you met III in person? A In person? When I went to New York. Q And when was the first time you went to Now York? A In 2006. Q 2006. And was the reason you went to New York in 2006 for Ms. Maxwell's party? A No. It was III I think had a surgery. Q Okay. And you were there to cover fur her while she had surgery? A Yes. Q And how long were you there? A I cannot remember, but after her surgery, then • ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Patm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquiresolutions.com EFTA00182490 - Volume II October 20, 2009 144 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 we left to Palm Beach. Q Okay. You don't remember how long it was? A I cannot remember, because I've been there like four times, or more than four times. Q More than four times? A Yes. Q Okay. So this first time when she had her surgery, you were the housekeeper then in New York while she was out, correct? A Yes, sir. Q But did she come into the house in New York and that's how you met her while she was recovering, or how was it that you met her at that time? A We met her before her surgery, I met her before her surgery. see. Then she went and had her surgery. Now, when you traveled to New York, did you go on Mr. Epstein's plane? A No, sir. Q How did you travel to New York? A Commercial. Q So Mr. Epstein purchased you a ticket on an airline to fly to New York? MR. CRITTON: Form. THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. 0 ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, Fl 33410 www.esquiresolutIons.com EFTA00182491 - Volume II October 20, 2009 145 • • 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. MERMELSTEIN: O Now, let's talk about the other times that you went, you traveled to New York. When was the next time afLeL Lecover.ed fLum lies sulyety Uiat you went to New York? A I think when she went to the Philippines. O Okay. She went for like a vacation to go to visit her family? A No. I'm not really good. There was time I went there because I think I sometimes interchange, but T went there one time herAuse to rover up for Ms. Maxwell's housekeeper. Q Okay. A And when she was having a party. Q Okay. So those are two separate times? A Yes. Two separate times. Q Both relating to Ms. Maxwell? A No. The first one was -- first one to cover up for III. Q Right. I understood that. But after that, when you came back -- A There was a time -- I don't know the sequence, but you know, there was a time I have to cover up for Ms. Maxwell's housekeeper. Q I see. What's her name? • 0 ESQV.I.BE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquIresolulions.com EFTA00182492 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 146 A Q And then there was another time where you went to work for this party that she had, correct? A Yes. Q Okay. And the fourth time? A When III went to the Philippines. • Okay. About how long were these visits each time? A Sometimes a week, two weeks, then there was a time I stayed there for like a month. Q Which was that, when she had her surgery, III had her surgery, or was this a different time? A Oh, what's this? Let me see. I cannot really, what's this? Q Take your time, take your time. A Oh. When, what's this, Ms. Maxwell's housekeeper, I was to cover up for her because tor jury duty. And then she was not part of the jury, so my stay there was, like, extended. That's how I was able to help with the party. • She did not get on the jury? A Yes. she was called. • But you stayed anyway to help with the party? A Yes. Q I think I understand. Now, have you ever, 0 ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquiresolutions.com EFTA00182493 - Volume II October 20, 2009 • • 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 41 22 23 24 25 147 while you've been employed by Mr. Epstein, traveled anywhere else for work? A No, sir. Q Those trips to New York was the only time you've traveled? A Yes, sir. Q You've never gone to New Mexico or to the Virgin Islands for Mr. Epstein? A No. (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 2 was marked for identification.) BY MR. MERMELSTEIN: Q Let me show you what's been marked Exhibit 2. Does it look like the paper that you were talking about earlier where you wrote the names and the time? A Yes, sir. Q Okay. So this is kind of a notebook or a message pad notebook that was I think you said located by the pantry? A Yes, sir. Q Can you look through this and Lell me if any of these, point out any of those that are in your handwriting? MR. REINHART: Take your time, look at each one, and just tell him if you see any that you • 0 ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 000 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 vemv.esquiresolutIons.com EFTA00182494 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 B 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 148 recognize your handwriting. MR. CRITTON: You asked her to identify if she sees anything in her writing? MR. MERMELSTEIN: Yes. THE WITNESS: (Shaking head.) BY MR. MERMELSTEIN: Q Okay. I understand your response is that you reviewed the various message slips included in Exhibit No. 2 and none of them are your writing, correct? A Yes, correct. • But you do recall writing messages on this type of pad for Mr. Epstein, correct? A Correct. MR. CRITTON: Stuart, that was exhibit what at Mr. Rodriguez's deposition? MR. MERMELSTEIN: Exhibit 1 at Mr. Rodriguez's deposition. MR. CRITTON: Okay. BY MR. MERMELSTEIN: O In the period 2004 to 2008 before Mr. Epstein went to jail, do you recall whether there were females who were sitting at the pool in the home at 358 El Brillo Way who were topless? A There was one time. • One time you remember. Tell me what happened 0 ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquiresolutions.com EFTA00182495 - Volume II October 20, 2009 149 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that time. A I was tidying the living room, then not really -- there was like part of the wall, so I saw one female there but not really, I saw it like this side (indicating), so... Q She was at the pool, or inside the house? A This side, not really frontal, but on the side I saw only -- I saw her side, not really like... MR. REINHART: His question was, was she inside the house or out by the pool when you saw her from the side. THE WITNESS: The question -- they were in the pool. BY MR. MERMELSTEIN: Q Okay. So she was not wearing a bathing suit top, correct? A Yes. Q Was she wearing a bathing suit bottom? A I did not know. Q And how did you -- did you do anything in response to this? A No. I went to, what's this, to kitchen and I told Alfredo not to go to the pool. Q And this was the only time you ever remember seeing a girl who wasn't wearing a top at the pool? • 0 ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 rune WU 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, R. 33410 VAritesquIresolutions.com EFTA00182496 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 150 A Yes. Q Were there frequently females at the pool to the house? A No. Not frequently. Q Not frequently. Sometimes? A Sometimes. Q Mr. Epstein would travel with some females, I think they would come on the plane with him to the house; is that correct? MR. CRITTON: Form. BY MR. MERMELSTEIN: Q You can answer. A I cannot remember if they -- let me see. remember . Because when Mr. Epstein arrives, most of the time I'm already off. • Let me ask the question this way: Were there females other than who would come with Mr. Epstein on the plane and stay at the house? MR. CRITTON: Form, predicate. BY MR. MERMELSTEIN: Q Stay overnight at the house? MR. CRITTON: Same. THE WITNESS: I did not know if they came with Mr. Epstein, I did not see. 0 ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquiresolutions.com EFTA00182497 - Volume II October 20, 2009 151 • 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. MERMELSTEIN: Q Okay. There were females who would stay overnight at the house, but you're not sure how they got Lu Lite house; is that fait to say? A Yes. Q Did any of the females who came to the kitchen entrance to give a massage, did any of them stay overnight? A No, sir. Q Never, correct? A Yes, sir. MR. CRITTON: Did you say correct and she said yes? MR. MERMELSTEIN: Yes. MR. CRITTON: Okay. Thank you. BY MR. MERMELSTEIN: Q The girl at the pool who was topless, do you recall what her name was? A No. • Do you recall how she got to the house or, you know, what her purpose was in being there? A I cannot remember. • Was she a girl who had come to give Mr. Epstein a massage? MR. CRITTON: Form. • 0 ESQVII37tlE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquiresolutions.corn EFTA00182498 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 152 THE WITNESS: No. BY MR. MERMELSTEIN: Q The females who came to give Mr. Epstein a massage, did they ever use the pool? MR. CRITTON: Form, predicate. THE WITNESS: I did not see. BY MR. MERMELSTEIN: Q You don't know? A I don't know. Q And again, this girl you saw topless was the only one you ever saw who was in any stage of undress in the pool area at the house; is that fair? A Yes. Q You mentioned in your testimony earlier that there was a back massager that was in Mr. Epstein's bedroom, correct? A In the massage room. Q In the massage room. It was what, on the floor, on the massage table, where did you find it? A Sometimes on the, what's this, the table, sometimes on the floor. Q So this would be a regular thing, you would go in the room to tidy up and you'd find this massager, correct? MR. CRITTON: Form. ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, Fl. 33410 www.esquiresolutions.com EFTA00182499 - Volume II October 20, 2009 153 • • 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 THE WITNESS: Yes. BY MR. MERMELSTEIN: Q You referred to it as a back massager, correct? A Yes. Q And did you do anything to this, did you put strike that. Did you put away this massager? A I return it to the drawer. Q Was that a drawer in the armoire? A No. In the bathroom. Q In the bathroom cabinet? A Yes. Q Were there other items in the drawer? A Lotions. Q So those wore maccagc itemo MR. CRITTON: Form. BY MR. MERMELSTEIN: Q -- that were in the drawer? MR. CRITTON: Sorry. Form. THE WITNESS: From Bodyworks, aroma massage therapy. BY MR. MERMELSTEIN: Q So there was Bodyworks lotions and this back massager; is that correct, in the drawer? • 0 ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquiresolutions.com EFTA00182500 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 154 A Yes. • Anything else in the drawer? A That's all. And I put some, like, hand towels. Q In the drawer? A Yeah. On the side. Q Was there any -- was there just one drawer that was used for these massage materials, or was there more than one drawer? A There is only one drawer. Q Would you do anything to this massager before ycu put it in the drawer? A No. I just return it there. • Did you ever clean it? A There was one time I clean it. Q One time you clean it. About how many times did this happen that you picked up the massager and put it in the drawer; did it happen many times? A Yes. Q So on this one occasion why did you clean it? A Because I thought it was, like, dirty, so I clean it. • Explain to me how it was dirty. A There is -- the color is -- like you know when -- like there is stains or something, you know, ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esouiresolutions.00m EFTA00182501 - Volume II October 20, 2009 • • 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 155 when something is not clean. So I very particular about cleanliness, so I... O Did you believe that there was a sexual fluid on it and that's why you cleaned it? A No. MR. CRITTON: Form. THE WITNESS: No. BY MR. MERMELSTEIN: Q Mr. Rodriguez testified that you disliked the task of putting away the massage items because you had to clean them of sexual fluids and that was unpleasant. Is that not true? MR. CRITTON: Form. THE WITNESS: Not true. BY MR. MERMELSTEIN: Q So Mr. Rodriguez would be lying about that, correct? A Yes. Q The way I asked that question was sexual fluids, and that may be an ambiguous term. What if I used the term "body fluids," does that change your answer at all? A No. Q It's the same, you never cleaned body fluids off of a massager, correct? • 0 Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite OUU ESQUIRE 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 wvnv.esquiresolutions.corn EFTA00182502 I 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - volume II October 20, 2029 156 A No. MR. CRITTON: Wait. You said -- when he said correct, you said no. Does that mean he's not correct? MR. REINHART: Did you ever clean body fluids off of a massager? THE WITNESS: I don't know if it's fluid, so.. . BY MR. MERMELSTEIN: Q Did you ever clean body fluid off of any massager? MR. CRITTON: Form. THE WITNESS: No. MR. MERMELSTEIN: I pass the torch. CROSS ( BY MR. HILL: Q I'm the mysterious voice that was on the phone before, and now you get the privilege of seeing me in person. I'm teasing, the privilege is mine. I won't be very long with you, I promise. I want to follow up on this line of questioning, though. The single time of the many instances in which you put back what you believed to be some kind of massage implement into the bathroom drawer, you only cleaned it one time? 0 ESQUIR.,g, Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esqulresdutlons.com EFTA00182503 • • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 157 A One time. Q All right. And you said that it appeared to you to be stained? A Yes. Q Did you have any idea of what it was that caused the implement which you believed to be a massager to become stained? A No, sir. Q So when you were asked questions about whether it was bodily fluid or not, you had no idea what it was that you were cleaning off that item that you believed to be a back massager? A Correct. Q Okay. How did you clean the item that one time that you believed to be a back massager? A I use a paper towel, wet the paper towel and wipe it. Q All right. Where was the item stained? A On the tip of the massager. Q All right. And if someone has asked you this and I missed it, I apologize. Describe for us what the item looked like that you believed to be a back massager. A It's an elongated piece with a thing Q Elongated what? • 0 ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, Fl. 33410 vnvw.esquIresolutions.com EFTA00182504 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 158 A Elongated thing, and then on the tip is like a round part. So I thought it's used for massaging. Q Did this implement have any kind of electrical power, did it have a cord, did it have batteries, did it move; do you know? A I don't know. • And the area that it was stained was where, ma'am? A On the tip of the, what's this. • Can you describe for us what the stain looked like? A It looks like it's dirty, like brown thing. Q Was there any kind of material other than -- did it look like it was some kind of dried liquid on there? MR. CRITTON: Form. THE WITNESS: I really don't know. I just, what's this, dirty, so I just clean it. Because I thought it was lotion because he have lotion there for... BY MR. HILL: Q And it's a true statement you never complained to anybody about your responsibilities for having to put back an item which you believed to be a back massager into the cabinet drawer in the bathroom? ESQUIRE loll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 vnvw.esquiresolutions.com EFTA00182505 - Volume II October 20, 2029 159 • • 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A No, sir. MR. REINHART: Hold on. I think your question was, was it a true statement that. BY MR. HILL: • That you never complained to anybody? MR. REINHART: Did you ever complain? THE WITNESS: I never complain, because it's my job to, so... BY MR. HILL: • Was it always the same item, did you put it back these many many times but only cleaned it once? A Yes. • And you've never seen it in use, you had no idea how it operates, if it operates at all? A No. • I want to talk to you about the folks, the ladies, the young girls, the young ladies, the women, however you want to describe them, and ask you if you can sit here today, close your eyes, and remember the face of any of the folks that would come over and give your boss, Jeffrey Epstein, massages? A If I remember? • As you sit here today, if I asked you to close your eyes, can you bring up in your mind's eye the faces of any of the young ladies that would come over to • 0 ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite OM 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquiresolutions.com EFTA00182506 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 160 Epstein's house and give him massages? MR. CRITTON: Form. BY MR. HILL: • Do you understand the question? A Yes. • Okay. A If you'll show me a picture then. Q No, ma'am. What I'm asking you to do, as an employee of Jeffrey Epstein's for many many years, and for many many years these ladies, young ladies, these females would come to his house and give him massages, do you remember the faces of any of them? A Maybe one or two. • All right. Earlier you testified that sometimes the same girl would come back, the same young lady would come back more than one time? A Yes. • How many young ladies can you recall making multiple visits to Jeffrey Epstein's house for the purpose of giving him massages? A Maybe two. Q Maybe two? A Yes. • And you can recall certainly their faces? MR. CRITTON: Form. ESQUIRE loll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esothreSOlutions.com EFTA00182507 • • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 161 THE WITNESS: Yes. BY MR. HILL: Q Okay. So far there are at least two young ladies who you can close your eyes and remember their faces, right? A Yes. Q Are there more than two young ladies that you can close your eyes and remember their faces? A No. Maybe two. Q Just two? A Two. • Do you recall the names of any of these young ladies A No, sir. Q -- who would come over? A No. • The name ( doesn't ring a bell to you at all? A Excuse me? A NO, sir. MR. HILL: Let me show you a photograph and see if you MR. CRITTON: Are you going to mark that Exhibit 3? • Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 ESQUIRE Suite 000 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 vovw.esquiresolutions.com EFTA00182508 - Volume II October 20, 2009 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 162 (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 3 was marked for identification.) BY MR. CRITTON: Q Pursuant to Mr. Critton's suggestion, we marked that as Plaintiff's Exhibit 3, and ask you to take a look at that photograph and tell me if you recognize this individual depicted on Plaintiff's 3. A I'm not sure. Q All right. Earlier you were shown a binder with a bunch of photographs in it? A Yes. Q Some of those photographs were of young ladies, yes? A I don't know their age. Q Well, I didn't -- MR. REINHART: Listen to the question. He's just asking if you saw a binder with pictures of young ladies in it. THE WITNESS: Yes. BY MR. HILL: Q Okay. And many of those young ladies you were able to say without any kind of doubt that you did not recognize them, right? A Yes. Q You don't have that same degree of certainty ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquiresolutlons.com EFTA00182509 - Volume II October 20, 2009 • 2 3 4 5 6 7 a 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 163 for the young lady pictured in photograph Plaintiff's Exhibit 3? A That's right. Q You don't know whether you've seen her or not? A No. Yes. MR. REINHART: Hold on. She said no, yes. THE WITNESS: I'm not so sure if I've seen her, but you know, the face seems familiar. BY MR. HILL: • You don't know how you would have met this young lady anywhere else other than Jeffrey Epstein's house, do you? MR. CRITTON: Form, speculation. THE WITNESS: What was the question again? BY MR. HILL: Q Sure. We were talking earlier about your being unsure whether you had met this particular young lady pictured in Plaintiff's 3, and my question is you wouldn't have seen her someplace other than Jeffrey Epstein's house, right? A I'm not sure. Q Okay. But she is someone who very well may be familiar to you? A Yes. Q Okay. Describe for me the two young ladies • 0 ESQUIRE, Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquiresolutions.com EFTA00182510 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 164 that you can remember when you close your eyes as being one of the young ladies that would come over to Epstein's house and give him massages. What do they look like? Let's start with number one, what did she look like? A The picture that he showed me, what's her name, Haley or something? I recognize that one. Q Let me ask you, the two young ladies that you can imagine that you can see in your mind's eye that provided Epstein massages when you were working there, were those young ladies both in the binder that was shown to you earlier that was Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 1, or are we talking about different ladies? A I remember that lady there. MR. EDWARDS: Just so that you're clear, I don't know that she said that the first time. THE WITNESS: Not this one. MR. REINHART: Not that one? THE WITNESS: Not that one. MR. EDWARDS: She said that. BY MR. HILL: Q She said that. Which one is this, so we're clear? MR. MERMELSTEIN: And for the court reporter. MR. CRITTON: What did she refer to? E SQVAll Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquiresolutions.com EFTA00182511 • • 1 2 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 10 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 165 MR. HILL: No, no, no. Let's get the exhibit number rather than provide names. MR. REINHART: This should be 1-N from my notes, "N" as in Nancy. BY MR. HILL: O So you recognize 1-N there? A I recognize one, that's the one that... Q So you recognize this one lady, 1-N? A No. I did not say I recognize her. Q You don't recognize her. Okay. So why don't we go hack through the booklet and you can tell me who it is that you recognize as the young lady who would come over and give Epstein massages? MR. CRITTON: Object to the form. I think it misstates her testimony. It was 1-P. THE WITNESS: This one. What's her -- I remember this one, but I don't know if she gives massage. MR. REINHART: Let's get a number for that one. MR. HILL: 1-F. MR. REINHART: I'm showing you what has 1-F next to it, right? THE WITNESS: Yes. • ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4140 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esqu resolunons.com EFTA00182512 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 166 BY MR. HILL: Q And you remember this person as someone who would come over and give Mr. Epstein massages? MR. CRITTON: Form. THE WITNESS: I don't know if she give massage, but I saw her in the house. BY MR. HILL: Q Okay. When I started the line of questioning a few minutes ago, I asked you to close your eyes and imagine the faces of any of the young ladies that would come to Epstein's house and give him massages. You said that you can recall two such young ladies, right? A Yes. Q All right. And so you don't remember whether this lady in 1-F provided massages to Epstein, correct? A Correct. • So this 1-F lady isn't one of the two that you can close your eyes and see as one of the young ladies who would come over to provide massages, right? MR. CRITTON: Form. THE WITNESS: So I can only picture maybe one. I thought this BY MR. HILL: Q I'm sorry. I cut you off, that was rude, I apologize. ESQUIRE a Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquIresolutions.com EFTA00182513 - Volume II October 20, 2009 • • 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 167 A Okay. Your question was if I can recall two persons? Q That was your testimony, yes, ma'am. A I remember this one. • You remember this one, pointing to 1-F, you remember this young lady? A Yes. Q But you don't know whether this young lady provided massages to Mr. Epstein, correct? A Correct. O And I guess back to my original line of questioning, I asked you whether about young ladies you can close your eyes and recall their faces as being girls, young ladies, excuse me, who would provide Epstein massages. Remember that? MR. CRITTON: Form. BY MR. HILL: • And you said that there were two such young ladies that you recall in your mind picturing their faces as young ladies who would come over and give Mr. Epstein massages? That's what you testified to, right? MR. CRITTON: Form. THE WITNESS: I get confused, because there are some visitors come or female come, and • ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Bead' Gardens, FL 33410 vAvw.esduiresolutIons.com EFTA00182514 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 l'/ 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 168 then -- so I get confused, so I can't remember this, and I'm telling you that I don't know if she gives massages. BY MR. HILL: Q Let me give you chance to answer it again. Okay. If you close your eyes and think back, are you able to see in your mind's eye the faces of any of the young ladies that would come over to your boss, Jeffrey Epstein, for the purpose of giving him massages? MR. CRITTON: Form. THE WITNESS: No. BY MR. HILL: Q And how many years are we talking about where these women would come, excuse me, these females would come to Mr. Epstein's house for the purpose of providing him massages, how many years are we talking about? MR. CRITTON: Form. MR. REINHART: When she worked there. BY MR. HILL: Q When you worked there. A If you show me pictures, then -- MR. REINHART: No. Listen and answer the question you're being asked. How many years do you remember females coming to give massages to Mr. Epstein during the time you worked there? 0 ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 State 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esqulresolutions.com EFTA00182515 - Volume II October 20, 2009 • 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 169 MR. CRITTON: Form. THE WITNESS: Since I work? And then one year. BY MR. HILL: Q You started work in 2005, right? A Yes. Q All right. And this happened up until the time that Mr. Epstein went to jail where these young ladies would come over? MR. CRITTON: Form. THR WITNESS: Before he went to jail? BY MR. HILL: Q Yes, ma'am. A Yes. Q So were talking about a period of years where this would happen, right? A Yes. Q For the period of years that you were working at Mr. Epstein's house where females would come to his home for the purpose of providing him massages, you don't remember the faces of any of them? A You know, I just open the door and then I cannot, I don't really, like, interact with them for a long time. Q But it is a true statement that you don't • 0 ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 vtivin.esquiresolutions.corn EFTA00182516 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 170 remember the faces of any of the females that would come to your boss's house, Jeffrey Epstein's house, over the period of years for the purposes of providing him massages? MR. CRITTON: Form. THE WITNESS: No. BY MR. HILL: Q It's true that you don't remember any of the faces? A If you show me picture, then -- Q No, ma'am. I'm asking you what you remember. A No. Q You don't remember any of their faces? A No. Q All right. Earlier you were asked about the folks that are at Mr. Epstein's house, and it sounds like one or those individuals is named Igor, the trainer? A Yes. Q All right. MR. REINHART: Talking currently? MR. HILL: Currently. MR. REINHART: Thank you. BY MR. HILL: Q When was the last time you saw Igor? 0 ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, Fl. 33410 WWwSSAWABSOWMMS.COM EFTA00182517 - Volume II October 20, 2009 171 • • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Today. Q You saw him today? A Yes. Q When was Lhe time befuLe that the last time that you saw him? A The last time? Q Yes, ma'am. You saw him today. When was the time before that that you saw him? A One week ago. Q All right. A Because T was on vacation. Q So you've been off for a week? A Yes, sir. Q So what day was it a week ago that you saw Igor the trainer? A Q You and I both looked Eor a calendar but there isn't one up there. Today is Tuesday. You're talking this past Friday or the Friday before that? A I think 9th, October 9th. • So that was the last day that you worked up until Monday of this week? A Yes, sir. • And you worked October 9th and saw Igor, correct? • ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquiresolutions.com EFTA00182518 - Volume II October 20, 2009 172 2 3 4 5 6 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Yes. Q And what is Igor's last name, do you know? A I don't know. Q Does Zinoviev sound familiar? A Because sometimes they called him Igor Z. Q Igor "Z," is that what you're saying? Yes? Igor then the letter "Z"? A Yes. Q So you saw him October 9th, the last day that you worked. Where did you see him, at Mr. Epstein's house? A Yes, sir. Q Then you worked yesterday, right? A Yes. Q And you saw him? A No. Q When was the last time you saw him? You saw him today? A Today. Q Ah. Okay. And what was he doing today? A He was waiting to drive Mr. Epstein. • Okay. Do you have any understanding that Igor, Mr. Igor Z., left after you saw him on Friday October 9th and came back for you to see him at Mr. Epstein's house today? ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 waesquiresolutions.com EFTA00182519 - Volume II October 20, 2009 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 173 A Can you rephrase the question? O Sure. Do you know if he went anywhere in between the last time you saw him before today and October 9th? A Janusz told me he will be on vacation. • He will be on vacation? When will he be on vacation. A The time that I will not be there. • Oh. You were both on vacation? A Yes. O So he's back now from what you believe to be his vacation? A Yes. O No reason he can't show up for a deposition, right? MR. CRITTON: Form. THE WITNESS: I don't know. MR. HILL: I don't know, either. Okay. That's all I have. Thank you. THE WITNESS: You're welcome. MR. CRITTON: can I switch with you? CROSS BY MR. CRITTON: , my name is Bob Critton, I represent Mr. Epstein. I have a few follow-up questions based on • ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 since 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquiresolutions.corn EFTA00182520 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 n4 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 174 questions that have been asked to you. If I understood your earlier testimony -- well, let me ask you this: Do you have any personal knowledge that any female ever gave Mr. Epstein a massage; that is, were you ever present when a massage took place? A No, sir. Q So you've been asked a lot of questions about females coming to the house to give Mr. Epstein a massage, right? You've been asked a lot of questions about that today? A Yes, sir. Q Okay. As to whether or not any female ever gave Mr. Epstein a massage, do you have any personal knowledge? A No, sir. Q All right You were asked a question by Mr. Hill and others as how many faces of the females you remember who came to Mr. Epctoin'o houoo to give him a massage, do you remember any faces. Do you recall those questions? A Yes. Q Okay. In fact, you're -- let me strike that. Would it be a correct statement that you're unaware of any females that came to his house that you ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquIresolutIons.corn EFTA00182521 - Volume II October 20, 2009 • • 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 175 know actually gave him a massage? Is that correct? A Correct. Q You were shown a document marked Exhibit 2 which was a bunch of message pads. Well, it was an exhibit, a composite exhibit that included a lot of message pads -- let me start again. Exhibit 2 has a lot of message pads, I'm sorry, a lot of papers. It looks like it has four "Important Message" and then there's a place to list who called, the date, and what the response should be; correct? A Yes. Q All right. You were asked earlier by Mr. Edwards whether you took phone calls for Mr. Epstein from any females who called about giving a massage. If I understood your testimony, no conversation that you ever -- well, let me strike that. If I understood your testimony, you never had a conversation with a female who called on the phone where the word "massage" was used? A NO, Sir. Q Is that correct? A Correct. Q All right. And when you were you responding to Mr. Edwards' questions about taking messages, did you • 0 ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquiresolutIons.com EFTA00182522 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 n4 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 176 just take -- that is, if a female called or a male called or whoever called and you happened to answer the phone, if they wanted to leave a message, did you fill out a message pad? A Correct. Q All right. So it didn't have to be a female who was giving a massage; it could have been a florist, it could have been a friend, it could have been anyone RS far an yrni know, MR. MERMELSTEIN: Object to form. MR. HILL: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: Correct. BY MR. CRITTON: Q Well, did anyone ever say I'd like to come over and give Mr. Epstein a massage to you? A No. MR. HILL: I don't know if we talked about it yet, but is an objection by one good for all, or do we need to repeat everybody °Ice's objection? MR. EDWARDS: I think it's good for all. MR. REINHART: I'm fine with that. BY MR. CRITTON: Q If I understand your testimony, in the approximately three years that you worked at Mr. Epstein's house before June of '08, so it would have EsQuxE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esoulresolutIons.com EFTA00182523 - Volume II October 20, 2009 • • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 177 been the latter part of '05, '06, '07, and then '08 through June, on the rare occasion you might answer a doorbell and someone might come in, that is, a female might come in who purportedly was to give Mr. -- let me strike that. As to any of the females that came to the door and punched the doorbell and you answered, do you know why they were there; that is, do you have any personal knowledge as to why they were there? A Sometimes. O Okay. And how would you know that? A Either Alfredo will tell me that this one is expected. Q Who was going to give a massage? He might say something like that, or just that the person is expected? A No. Is expected. Q All right. And so if in fact let me strike that. During '04 -- I'm sorry. MR. CRIMON: what did she say, '05 when she started? MR. EDWARDS: She started November of 2004, but then she just recently changed it to say she started 2005, so I don't know. • 0 ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, Fl 33410 www.esquiresolutions.com EFTA00182524 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 178 MR. CRITTON: That may have been me. BY MR. CRITTON: Q Did you start in 2004, November 2004? A Yes. November. Q When you started in November of 2004 and up through 2005, on how many occasions would you have answered the door where a female was coming that Alfredo said you can expect such and such? Does that make sense to you? MR. EDWARDS: Object to the form. BY MR. CRITTON: Q Do you want me to rephrase that? A Can you rephrase it? Q If I understood your testimony, your business is tidying, keeping the house tidy, laundry, straightening up, things of that nature? A Yes. Q All right. And that's most of your day when you're there? A Yes. Q And when you're off, you don't know what goes on at the house? A No. Q Or for that matter any place else. If you're not there, you have no personal knowledge what goes on ESQUJRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esguiresolutions.com EFTA00182525 • • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 179 at the mall if you're not there, right? MR. EDWARDS: Form. THE WITNESS: Correct. BY MR. CRITTON: Q All right. On approximately how many occasions would you have ever answered the door during the '04, '05 time period where a female came in and you left them alone in the kitchen or offered them something to drink? Are we talking three or four times, are we talking five or ten times, or more or less? MR. EDWARDS: Form. THE WITNESS: That specific time? BY MR. CRITTON: Q Yeah. During '04 and '05 from the time you started in '04 through the end of '05. A I cannot remember how many times. Q Okay. Was it often or rarely that you were the one who actually let someone in the house? A Rarely. Q All right. And did you ever see a female coming, and i'm not talking or , did you ever see a female coming down the stairs into the kitchen ever? A Yes. Q On how many occasions, your best recollection? • 0 ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 suite WU 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquiresolutions.com EFTA00182526 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 180 MR. EDWARDS: What time frame? The whole time she worked there? BY MR. CRITTON: • '04, '05, '06. A Rarely. Maybe. • Let me rephrase my question. During the period '04 and '05, through the end of '05; that is, November of '04 through the end of '05, approximately how many times did you see someone, a female, who would come from upstairs downstairs? And I'm not talking about or or someone there who was there regularly. A Maybe three times. • Okay. And on the three times that you saw someone come down the stairs, you saw them where, in the kitchen? A Yes. • Did anyone ever look upset? A No. • Did anyone look like they were crying? A No. • Did anyone look distraught? A No. • Did any those people cry for help? A No, sir. ESQU,I,RE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, Ft. 33410 www.esquiresolutIons.com EFTA00182527 - Volume II October 20, 2009 • • 2 3 4 181 Q During the entire time that you've been working for Mr. Epstein, from November of '04 through '05 did you ever hear a female cry for help? A No. 5 Q Did you ever hear them yell out for help? 6 A No, sir. 7 Q Did you ever hear someone scream for help? 8 A No. 9 Q Did anyone ever ask you to call the police? 10 A No, sir. 11 0 Did anyone ever tell you that they were 12 molested? 13 A No, sir. 14 Did anyone ever tell you that they were 15 abused? 16 A No, air. 17 Q Did anyone tell you that they had received any 18 type of physical harm? 19 A No. 20 0 Okay. Did anyone appear to have, at least 21 from your observations of their facial features, to have 22 been in any way emotionally upset or distraught? 23 A No. 24 Q Okay. You were asked a number of questions 25 about what you observed or -- let me strike that. • 0 ESQli. IRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquiresolutions.com EFTA00182528 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 182 You were asked a number of questions by Mr. Edwards about what was taken from the house by the police. Do you remember those questions? A Correct, I remember. Q Were you present when the police took certain items from Mr. Epstein's home? A No sir. Q Do you know what the police have in their possession? A No. Q Did anyone ever tell you what the police took from the house, other than I think you said Janusz said they took computers? A I cannot remember he said computers. I remember pictures. Q Okay. That's what Janusz told you? A Yes. Q But you have no personal knowledge? A No, sir. Q That's correct? A Correct. Q All right. You talked about a photograph of what you described as an approximately four-year-old girl and it looked like the back portion of a swimsuit or some bottoms she had on was being pulled down a 0 ESQUIRE loll tree: 866./09.8/ / Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esguiresolutions.com EFTA00182529 • • 2 3 4 S 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 183 little bit? A Correct. Q Is that Mr. Epstein's Goddaughter? MR. EDWARDS: Object to the form. BY MR. CRITTON: Q Strike that. Do you know whether or not that's a picture of Mr. Epstein's Goddaughter? MR. EDWARDS: Form. THE WITNESS: I was told that. AY MR. CRITTON: Q By whom? A By III. Q III up in New York? A Yes. Q All right. You were asked about what you described as a back massager. Do you recall that earlier? Mr. Hill asked you and I think Mr. Edwards. In fact, I think all the other lawyers asked you that question. A Yes. Q Is the item that you describe as a back massager, have you seen that like -- let me strike that. Do you know what Brookstone is? A Yes. • ESQUIRE 0 Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, R 33410 voorcesouiresolutions.com EFTA00182530 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 184 Q Is the item that you saw similar to something that you've seen at Brookstone? MR. MERMELSTEIN: Objection to form. THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. BY MR. CRITTON: Q You were asked a number of questions about Ms. Maxwell. Do you recall that series of questions? A Yes. Q What was your relationship with Ms. Maxwell; did you get along well with her, did you find her difficult, easy going? A I have a good relationship with Ms. Maxwell. Q Okay. Did she always treat you with respect? A Yes. Q And i think you told us that she's the one who actually hired you? A Correct. Q Was Alfredo Rodriguez the person responsible for hiring you, or was it Ms. Maxwell? A Ms. Maxwell. Q And when you started, you first said that you thought -- well, let me strike that. In your earlier testimony you said that Mr. Rodriguez was your boss, and then you said well, really we work side by side. ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.877/ Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquiresdutions.corn EFTA00182531 - Volume II October 20, 2009 • • 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 185 So my question to you is was Mr. Rodriguez your boss, or were you co-equals in the house and you each had your own job? A We have our own job. He told me he is my supervisor. Q Okay. A But Ms. Maxwell told us we have to work like, you know, work together for the house. Q For the good of the house? A Yes. Q So if he needed help you'd help him, if you needed help he was supposed to help you? A Correct. Q Did Ms. Maxwell ever tell you that Mr. Rodriguez was your boss, or only Mr. Rodriguez? A Mr. Rodriguez tell me. Q Okay. Was Mr. Rodriguez -- let me strike that. Mr. Rodriguez was working at the house when you started? A Correct. Q And he continued for how long after you started? That is, you started sometime in mid November of '04, how many more months did he work? A I think up to February. • 0 ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 vivAv. esquIresolutIons.com EFTA00182532 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 186 Q February of '05? A '05. Q And did he resign, or was he terminated? A He was terminated. Q Do you know why he was terminated? A One reason I know is one time he did not buy any food when Mr. Epstein came, the refrigerator was empty. Q Was that his job, to make certain there was food in the house when Mr. Epstein came to town? A It was his job. Q All right. Did you consider Mr. Rodriguez an honest person? MR. HILL: Object to the form. MR. EDWARDS: Form. THE WITNESS: No. BY MR. CRITTON: Q Why not? MR. HILL: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: Because he used my name. He had almost a fist fight with a gardener. BY MR. CRITTON: • Was that Jerome? A Jerome. And he used my name that I am a witness of the time that Jerome comes to work. So 0 ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, Fl 33410 www,esquiresolutions.com EFTA00182533 - Volume II October 20, 2009 • • 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 187 Jerome talked to me, and I told Alfredo not to use my name, because I don't keep tab of people's time coming in and out. I told Alfredo, if you ask me if Jerome is here, I say he's here; if he's not, he's not. But I don't tell you he came this time and that time. So I was upset too with Alfredo, because I said that's a lie, don't use my name. Q All right. Now, you were asked some questions, a number of questions as to what Mr. Rodriguez testified at his deposition that he said, Mr. Rodriguez, that you were disgusted with cleaning sex toys. Do you remember that question? A Yes. I remember. Q And I think your testimony is you never had that conversation with Mr. Rodriguez; is that correct? A No, sir. Q So I think you -- MR. REINHART: Hold on. I think you said your testimony is, she said no, sir. Can we be clear what the question and answer was? BY MR. CRITTON: Q Did you ever tell Mr. Rodriguez that you were disgusted with cleaning sex toys? A No. • 0 ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquiresolutions.com EFTA00182534 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 20C9 188 Q All right. And if he said that, was he lying? MR. HILL: Form. THE WITNESS: He is. He was. BY MR. CRITTON: Q If I asked you to assume Mr. Rodriguez said that you were upset because there were pictures of partially-clothed or naked women near a picture of the Pope, I ask you to assume that he said that, would that be true? A That's a lie. Q All right. Was there a picture of the Pope in Mr. Epstein's house? A Yes. Q All right. Was that near any picture of any individual in some state of undress? A No. Q Did Mr. Rodriguez ever lie to you? MR. HILL: Object to the form. MR. EDWARDS: Form. THE WITNESS: Using my name was a lie. BY MR. CRITTON: Q Okay. Did he ever ask you to lie for him? A One time. Q What happened? A Mr. Epstein was not in his house, he's away, 0 ESQULKE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 SuIle 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 vAvvvesquIresdullons.com EFTA00182535 - Volume II October 20, 2009 • 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 189 and I receive a call from Alfredo, and he told me not to answer any call from New York. Q Did he tell you why? A He said I'm going to help you and you help me. So I did not know what he means by that. And then I receive a call from one of the secretary, so they said where are you, , and I said the mall. Q Were you in the mall? A Yes. Q All right. Was it your day off? Were you working that day, did you have to pick something up? A I was off. Q Okay. So you said the secretary called you and you told her exactly where you were? A Yes. Q Did oho ack you -- and then what happened next? Let me ask you this question, did she ask you where Mr. Rodriguez was? A She did. Q And what did you say? A I don't know, but i think I mentioned that I receive a call from him. Q Did he want you to cover for him? MR. HILL: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: I did not tell Helen that he • ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 vnvw.esquiresolutions.com EFTA00182536 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 190 asked me to cover for him. BY MR. CRITTON: Q Okay. And if I understood your testimony, he, Mr. Rodriguez said if you get a call from New York, simply don't answer it? A Yes. Q Because that way what, no one could ask where you were or anybody else was? A Yes. Q That's what you understood? A That's what I understand. MR. CRITTON: That's all I have. Thank you very much, ma'am. THE WITNESS: You're welcome. REDIRECT ( BY MR. EDWARDS: • I have some follow-up questions. Have you ever met with Mr. Critton before? A Yes. Q When was that? A Yesterday. • And where was that? A In his office. Q And who called that meeting? MR. REINHART: That's privileged. 0 ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beech Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquiresolutions.com EFTA00182537 • • 1 2 3 4 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 2. 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 191 BY MR. EDWARDS: Q Okay. Was it your idea to meet with Mr. Critton? A No, sir. Q Okay. So when Mr. Critton sat down and said ma'am, I'm Bob Critton and I represent Mr. Epstein, that's something you already knew from yesterday, right? A Yes. Q Okay. So that was just a show for everybody else in this room to make it seem like you had not met before? MR. CRITTON: It was for the record. THE WITNESS: No, sir. BY MR. EDWARDS: Q Okay. What did you talk about with Mr. Critton? MR. CRITTON: That's privileged. MR. EDWARDS: You represent Ms. -- MR. CRITTON: She's my employee. BY MR. EDWARDS: • Do you understand this to be yuus attorney, Mr. Critton? MR. CRITTON: Well, I am her attorney. Bruce is her personal lawyer, I'm her attorney vis-a-vis her employment with Mr. Epstein, and that was a • • ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esqulresolutions.com EFTA00182538 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 192 privileged communication. MR. MERMELSTEIN: This case has got nothing to do with employment. MR. CRITTON: I don't care. Take it up with the judge. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. MR. MERMELSTEIN: I assume you don't have authority with you here? MR. CRITTON: Pardon? MR. MERMELSTEIN: I assume that means you have no authority as we sit here today? MR. CRITTON: What? Am I supposed to give you authority? Take it up with the judge. BY MR. EDWARDS: Q Okay. At this meeting with you and Mr. Critton, was Mr. Reinhart also there? A He is. He was. Q Who else was at the meeting, who else was in the room with you? A Only Mr. Reinhart and Mr. Critton and mc. Q How long did the meeting last? A About an hour. Q Did you ever cry about a picture of the Pope next to a girl in Mr. Epstein's house? A No. Q All right. Now, you testified that ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esoulresolutions.corn EFTA00182539 - Volume II October 20, 2009 • • 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 193 Mr. Rodriguez on one occasion asked you to cover for him? A Not to answer the phone call from New York. Q You don't know why he told you not to answer the phone call from New York? A He mentioned -- he said that one day I'm, like, help you, and the other day... Q You help me? A Yes. • You don't know what that means, though? A No. • And the time where there was some confrontation between, or there was some dispute over Jerome the gardener being at work or not being at work, that's something that Mr. Rodriguez tried to bring you into? A Yes. • And was that with Mr. Epstein or with Ms. Maxwell or Ms. A Ms. -- again? Q Okay. My understanding is that it was Mr. Rodriguez who is saying is a witness to whether or not Jerome was at work that day? A Correct. • And who was he saying that to? • 0 ESQL7I4. Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, F1 33410 www.esquiresdutions.com EFTA00182540 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 194 A To Jerome. Q Okay. So he's telling Jerome hey, is a witness to you not being here? A Yes. Q Okay. And you said don't use my name any more? A Because Jerome talked to me and he said, he mention to me what Alfredo told him, so I went to Alfredo and talked to Alfredo. • Okay. And prior to the police coming to the house, there was a massage table inside Mr. Epstein's bedroom, right? A Yes. Q Was that massage table there after the police came to the house? A No. Q Okay. So before when you told us all they took were photographs, do you know whether or not the police also took a massage table? MR. CRITTON: Form. Strike that, withdraw the form. THE WITNESS: I cannot always remember, like... MR. REINHART: Hold on. Do you understand his question? ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquiresolutIons.com EFTA00182541 - Volume II October 20, 2009 195 • • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. EDWARDS: Q Do you know if the police took the massage table? A No. Q You don't know who took the massage table out of the house? A No. Q Okay. We were talking about a time period where you worked one day and then the following day you came in in the afternoon because you had received a call from Ghislaine Maxwell. Do you remember that scenario? A Yes. Q When you received the call from Ghislaine Maxwell, you didn't know at that time that the police had ever been to the house, right? A NO. MR. REINHART: Hold On. She didn't answer the question that you asked. MR. EDWARDS: I thought she had already said no. MR. REINHART: I think the wdy you asked it, it may have been nonresponsive, so why don't you ask it again so it's clear. BY MR. EDWARDS: Q Okay. At the time when Ghislaine Maxwell • ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 vAmv.esquiresolutions.com EFTA00182542 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 196 called you to tell you you didn't have to come in until the afternoon, at that point in time you didn't know that the police had ever been to the house, right? A No. Q You found out for the first time that the police came to the house when you arrived in the afternoon to show up for work, right? A Correct. Q Okay. That call from Ghislaine Maxwell, your schedule at that time was to show up, at the time when this telephone call is taking place, was to show up at eight in the morning or so, right? A Correct. Q So that call from Ghislaine Maxwell was actually the night before she called you and said don't come in until the next afternoon, right? A 1 think in the same day. Q All right. You told me earlier that she didn't call that early, but she obviously called sometime before you got to work? A Yes. Q All right. What time did she call? A I cannot remember. You know, I have problem with remembering days and what's this. Q I can understand problems with memory. But ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquiresolutIons.com EFTA00182543 - Volume II October 20, 2009 • • 2 3 4 5 6 197 when you say that you show up at eight o'clock, were you a punctual employee to where you showed up on time? A I am. Q Okay. And around the time when the search warrant took place, where were you living, do you remember? 7 A In townhouse in West Palm Beach. 8 Q How long would it take you to get from that 9 townhouse in West Palm Beach to Mr. Epstein's house? 10 A About thirty minutes. 11 O Thirty minutes? 12 A (Nodding head). 13 Q Sorry. The court reporter can't get the 14 nodding. 15 A That's my estimate, thirty minutes. 16 Q Okay. So what time would you leave your 17 townhouse in the morning to arrive to Mr. Epstein's work 18 by eight o'clock to start your shift? 19 A As I have mentioned, I sometimes work eight or 20 nine. 21 Q Okay. Do you remember that day if you were 22 scheduled to work eight or nine? 23 A I think nine. 24 Q Okay. I had understood your testimony, and we 25 can go back and look at the record some other time, I • 0 ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 wenv.esquiresolutions.com EFTA00182544 - Volume II October 20, 2009 198 understood -- 2 3 5 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A I get confused, because during that time my schedule was like sometimes eight -- I go nine, sometimes I go eight. Q How did you find out around that time whether you were supposed to report at eight or nine? A Because we were told that we don't don't baby the house. So since Mr. Epstein is not there, so 1 report between eight or nine. • Okay. So when you say that you were a punctual employee, that means that if you were supposed to show up at eight you showed up at least by eight o'clock, and if you were supposed to show up at nine, you showed up at least by nine o'clock, right? A Yes. Q All right. Did you have a cell phone at the time? A I do. Q Did Ghislaine Maxwell call you on the cell phone, or did she call you on your house phone? A Cell phone. Q Were you already in the car on the way to Mr. Epstein's house? A I was still in the townhouse. Q And were you already ready for work, ready to ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Faalmlle: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquiresolutions.com EFTA00182545 - Volume II October 20, 2009 199 • • 2 3 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 go to work? A Yes. Q And what did Ms. Maxwell say on the telephone other than you can show up in Lhe afternoon, anything? A That's it. Q All right. And did you ask why? A No. I just thought that maybe she's giving me like half a day off, so I was happy. Q Was Ghislaine Maxwell calling you from New York, or was she in West Palm Beach? A I don't know where she was calling me. Q When you arrived at the house in West Palm Beach, was Ghislaine Maxwell there? A No. MR. REINHART: You mean the house in Palm Beach. BY MR. EDWARDS: Q Well, that's the house you went to work to that day, right? MR. REINHART: I just don't want the record to be confused between her house in west Palm beach and Mr. Epstein's house in Palm Beach. MR. EDWARDS: Okay. Understood. BY MR. EDWARDS: Q So does this conversation, you were either • 0 ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquiresolutions.com EFTA00182546 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 200 supposed to arrive at eight, in which case you would leave your townhouse at 7:30 to arrive at Mr. Epstein's house, right? A If I go there eight. Q And if you go there at nine, then you leave your townhouse by no later than 8:30; is that right? A Yes. Q Okay. So Ghislaine Maxwell is calling you that morning then sometime either just before 7:30 or just before 8:30 in the morning to tell you don't have to show up until the afternoon; is that right? A Yes. Q And as we sit here today, you don't remember whether it was just before 7:30 or just before 8:30? A To be honest, sir, I cannot remember. Q All right. Is it fair to say that it might have been even the night before? MR. CRITTON: Form. THE WITNESS: No. BY MR. EDWARDS: Q You're sure that it was that morning? A I think I'm sure it was that morning. Q Okay. You seem to remember specifically getting a telephone call from her and it was early morning before you showed up for work? ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, Fl 33410 www.esquiresolutlons.com EFTA00182547 - Volume II October 20, 2009 • • 2 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 201 A I cannot remember if it was early, but I got a call. I don't know the time. Q All right. Your schedule, just so that we're on the same page here, you were either supposed to show up at eight or at nine o'clock, and you can't tell us which one, right? A Yes, sir. Because I don't how to explain this. Q And you were not in the car at the time when you received the telephone call from Ghislaine Maxwell, right? A Yes. I was still in the townhouse. Q So we can all presume, it's a very safe presumption at this point that the telephone call from Ghislaine Maxwell was made to you prior to 8:30 in the morning on that particular morning, right? A Yes. Q Okay. Do you punch a clock so that we could figure out what time you were supposed to be at the house? A No. Q Anybody keep a track of time? A No. Q You've been asked a lot of questions about the various females that showed up to the house to give ESQUIRE a•Aleardot OtIlefoisio•I Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 vnvw.esouiresolutIons.com EFTA00182548 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 202 massages, and the only reason you ever knew that they were allegedly giving massages is that somebody told you that, right? A Correct. Q These females that showed up didn't show up -- MR. CRITTON: Form. BY MR. EDWARDS: Q -- with massage cards or hand you cards or give you any other indication that they were giving a massage other than somebody else told you that? MR. CRITTON: Form. THE WITNESS: Correct. BY MR. EDWARDS: Q Okay. And when these females would show up, they were of very young age; wouldn't you agree with that? MR. CRITTON: Form. THE WITNESS: They may look young, but I did not ask their age. BY MR. EDWARDS: Q You know what a thirty year old looks like or a forty year old or a fifty year old, and that's not this classification of females that we're talking about, is it? MR. CRITTON: Form, argumentative, ESQliIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquiresolutions.com EFTA00182549 - Volume II October 20, 2009 203 • • 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 repetitious. THE WITNESS: Yes. BY MR. EDWARDS: Q You think that there were thirty year olds that showed up to give massage? A No. Because there are people that look young but, you know, they may be older than what they, how they look. Q And in the period of time from November 2004 through the time that Mr. Epstein went to jail, which is 2008, you testified that he received from these females two to three massages or visits from these females per day every day, right? MR. CRITTON: Form. THE WITNESS: I said not every day. I remember that, my answer. BY MR. EDWARDS: Q Okay. But almost every day, fair? MR. CRITTON: Form. THE WITNESS: Yes. BY MR. EDWARDS: Q Okay. We're talking about -- and two of those females that you remember over this four-year period you remember being repeat visitors and that came more than one time, correct? • 0 Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquire4Olutions.03m EFTA00182550 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 204 A Yes. MR. CRITTON: Form. BY MR. EDWARDS: Q The other ones -- MR. CRITTON: Hold on. I want to put one thing on the record. MR. EDWARDS: / don't break you up like this every time. MR. CRITTON: Well, this is the testimony that you covered for almost three hours earlier today, it's the same, it's not recross, it doesn't cover anything that everybody else touched on in their cross. I'm sorry, 1 mean it's not redirect. It's the same material that you covered before. MR. EDWARDS: Mark this point in the deposition, too. MR. CRITTON: Please do. MR. EDWARDS: Thank you. BY MR. EDWARD£: Q The other girls that are coming on nearly an everyday basis as females under the idea that they're going to give Mr. Epstein a massage, besides the two that you've described as repeat masseuses, are different faces every day, right? MR. CRITTON: Form. ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquIresolutions.com EFTA00182551 - Volume II October 20, 2009 • • 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 205 THE WITNESS: Yes. BY MR. EDWARDS: Q So if you're only seeing them one time, that could be the reason why you can't think back and remember these particular faces of every single one of these female girls, right? MR. CRITTON: Form, leading. THE WITNESS: Yes. BY MR. EDWARDS: Q Okay. So did you ever wonder how it was that so many different young-looking female girls arrived at Mr. Epstein's house, how he got in touch with this many girls? MR. CRITTON: Form. BY MR. EDWARDS: Q Did you ever wonder? MR. CRITTON: Form. THE WITNESS: It was strange, but that's his life, so I was there to work, to do my job. BY MR. EDWARDS: Q Okay. But while you were duiuy your job, you knew -- look, you didn't witness anything, like Mr. Critton said, what was going on behind closed doors, but you knew that there was sex going on between Mr. Epstein and these young girls? • 0 ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquiresolutions.com EFTA00182552 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 206 MR. CRITTON: Form, argumentative. THE WITNESS: I did not see, I did not go upstairs and notice. BY MR. EDWARDS: Q I know you didn't see. You're still employed by Mr. Epstein, right? A I am. Q Mr. Epstein has hired you an attorney, obviously? A Yes. Q You want to keep your employment with Mr. Epstein, right? MR. CRITTON: Form. THE WITNESS: If he'll fire me, I -- you know, they told me to tell, to be honest, to tell the truth, my lawyers. BY MR. EDWARDS: Q Yeah. You know that I represent three girls, Mr. Mermelstein represents seven girls, Mr. Hill one, and that's just the lawyers that are here. A bunch of these girls are all alleging that Mr. Epstein was upstairs having sex with them and/or sex acts with them, and that these were not massages taking place. You're aware of those allegations now, right? A Now I'm aware. 0 ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquiresolutions.com EFTA00182553 - Volume II October 20, 2009 • 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 207 MR. CRITTON: Form. BY MR. EDWARDS: Q And had you ever heard that during these sex sessions that Mr. Epstein would then offer these young girls money, cash money to be subjected to sex; had you ever heard that? MR. CRITTON: Form. THE WITNESS: I heard now. BY MR. EDWARDS: Q And that if they agree to bring their friends who are also of that same age group, that each friend they brought over to his house he would then pay them for recruiting a new friend. Did you know that? MR. CRITTON: Form. THE WITNESS: No. BY MR. EDWARDS: Q Now it all kind of makes sense how he gets all these young little girls over to his house, right? MR. CRITTON: Form, argumentative. BY MR. EDWARDS: Q And nobody in the house has ever denied any of what I'm saying, have they? MR. CRITTON: Form. She didn't even answer the last question and you're continuing on with your argument. • • ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 vrww.esguiresolutions.com EFTA00182554 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 B 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 208 BY MR. EDWARDS: Q Has anybody? A I did not hear them talk about it, so I cannot. Q So now that you know what's going on in your boss's house, are you still going to stay employed with him? MR. CRITTON: Form, argumentative, serves no purpose. THE WITNESS: Yes. MR. EDWARDS: Okay. Perfect. I don't have anything else. THE WITNESS: But if he fires me, you know. MR. MERMELSTEIN: Just a couple of questions. RECROSS ( BY MR. MERMELSTEIN: • This meeting that you had with Mr. Critton and Mr. Reinhart yesterday, where did it take place? A In Mr. Critton's office. Q Mr. Critton's office? A Yes, sir. Q And was it Mr. critton's office who called you to advise you of the time and where to go for the meeting? A ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquiresolutions.com EFTA00182555 - Volume II October 20, 2009 209 • • • 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0 A Yes. Q Is that Mr. Critton's assistant? Mr. Reinhart's assistant? You don't know. MR. EDWARDS: BY MR. MERMELSTEIN: Q I'm sorry. told you where to go for the meeting? A Yes. Q You testified that Mr. Rodriguez was terminated, according to your understanding, for not buying groceries when Mr. Epstein came into the house; is that correct? A Yes. Q Who told you that that was the reason? A Ms. Maxwell told me that Alfredo should -- Ms. Maxwell told me that Alfredo should not -- Alfredo should always like, I don't know. MR. REINHART: Answer the question you were asked. Who told you that? THE WITNESS: Ms. Maxwell. I'm sorry. BY MR. MERMELSTEIN: Q Why did Ms. Maxwell tell you about the reasons for terminating? • ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Faaimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esoulresoludons.corn EFTA00182556 - Volume II October 20, 2009 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 210 A Because there was one time that I called the agency that I'm going to quit. Q Okay. And why was that? A Because Alfredo was not listening to my complaints. Q What were you complaining about? A Like my hand was already -- like I have to help in the kitchen and then, like, iron. So I said my hand is numb already, and Alfredo did not even pay attention. So I called the agency to find another job. Q I'm confused. I thought you were employed -- so you weren't employed by the agency at this point, you were going to go back to the agency to find another job; is that fair to say? A Yes. Q And this is before you even complained to Ms. Maxwell? A I did not complain to Ms. Maxwell. Q And that was because Mr. Rodriguez was your supervisor, correct? MR. CRITTON: Form. THE WITNESS: At that time, yes. BY MR. MERMELSTEIN: Q Did that ever change, before Mr. Rodriguez left the employment? ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.6777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, Fl. 33410 www.esquiresolutIons.com EFTA00182557 - Volume II October 20, 2009 211 • • 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Yes. Q When did it change? A Because I was told that we have to work together, but he was like, you know, like very bossy. Q You didn't like Mr. Rodriguez, did you? A No. I, what's this, I like him first, but then he keeps on talking and talking and talking and criticizing. And then he lied, there was one instance I want to tell you that he also lied. • Other than what you testified to before? A Yes. Q Okay. Go ahead. A There was one time I was still new, and then -- Q I'm sorry. You were what? A Still new. You don't understand my English. 0 A go around That's What's tidy. okay. Take your time. this? Before I leave, I always, like, And then that time the master bedroom was closed, so I told Alfredo it's closed, so I went back to him. He said no, no, no, they went to the movies. And I went back again, but it's not proper, so I knock again. knock, I went down again to talk to then I feel that No. I did not Alfredo. So I went back again and knock, and then Mr. Epstein was in the • 0 ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suitt 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquiresolutions.com EFTA00182558 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 212 bedroom. And the next day Alfredo told me that Mr. Epstein will fire me. And Alfredo, I was, what's this. I was disappointed in Alfredo because he should have told Mr. Epstein if he is like a good boss that it was his fault because I'm still new there and I don't, what's this, he was telling me that nobody is there in the bedroom. Q And so Mr. Epstein was going to fire you for knocking on the bedroom door while he was in the bedroom? A That's what Alfredo said, told me. Q Okay. But Mr. Epstein didn't fire you, correct? A No. Q What was Mr. Epstein doing in the bedroom when you knocked on the door? A Maybe taking a nap. I don't know. Q Was he in the bedroom with anyone at the time? A I don't know. Q You never heard anything else from anyone about whether you'd be fired, is that basically what happened after this? A No. That was only from Alfredo. Q Okay. So you were waiting to hear something ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquIresolutlons.com EFTA00182559 - Volume II October 20, 2009 • • 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 213 from Mr. Epstein or Ms. Maxwell but you never heard anything else; is that it? A No. Q Yuu cunLiuued wiLli youL jub, cuLLecL? A Yes, sir. Q Well, why did you speak to Ms. Maxwell about the reasons that Mr. Rodriguez was terminated? A Why I talk to Ms. Maxwell? Q Yes. A I think she called me to be in the house when Alfredo comes. Q To be in -- what do you mean? A Because Alfredo at that time was on vacation. Q Okay. And they were terminating him when he came back? MR. CRITTON. Form. BY MR. MERMELSTEIN: Q I'm not understanding. A Alfredo told me that he asked for a vacation, so he was on vacation at that time. Q Okay. That's when Ms. Maxwell spoke to you about why she's terminating Alfredo? A She didn't tell me that she's going to terminate Alfredo, but she told me to stay in the house because Alfredo will come and pick up his things. • 0 Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 ESQUIRE Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esouiresolutions.00m EFTA00182560 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 214 Q Oh. So she wanted you to watch Alfredo when he came to pick up his things? A Yes. And to get something, like a folder from Alfredo. Q okay. And at that time the reason that she gave you, according to your testimony, for terminating him was that he had failed to buy groceries? A She did not tell me that time that she is going to terminate Alfredo because he did not buy, but she was upset also that Alfredo did not guy groceries. Q But that wasn't the reason she was terminating him? A I don't know. Q Did she give any other reasons that she was unhappy with Alfredo's performance? A No. MR. MERMELSTEIN: Nothing further. MR. HILL: I don't have anything. MR. EDWARDS: Ma'am, can you just put your telephone number on the record just so that we can get in touch with you if we need to find you for trial or something? MR. REINHART: You can contact me. MR. EDWARDS: Even if, you know, God forbid, the trial is a year from now and she's not an ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquiresolutions.com EFTA00182561 - Volume II October 20, 2009 • • 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 215 Epstein employee and you don't have it? MR. REINHART: I will be -- I'm her lawyer, you can contact her through me and I'll find her. MR. EDWARDS: Perfect. Good enough for me. All right. Read or waive? MR. REINHART: Read. THE COURT REPORTER: Do you need to order? MR. EDWARDS: Yes. THE COURT REPORTER: Who needs copies? MR. CRITTON: Are you getting it typed? MR. EDWARDS: Yes. MR. CRITTON: I'll take a copy, front page only, mini, with a text. MR. HILL: No. MR. MERMELSTEIN: Yes. (witness excused.) (Deposition was concluded.) • 0 ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 wvnv.esquiresolutions.com EFTA00182562 1 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 - Volume II October 20, 2009 216 THE STATE OF FLORIDA) COUNTY OF PALM BEACH) I, the undersigned authority, certify that personally appeared before me on the 20th of October, 2009, and was duly sworn. Dated this 30th day of October, 2009. Teresa Whalen, RPR, FPR Notary Public - State of Florida My Commission Expires: 4/25/11 My Commission No.: DD 644533 Job # 118991 ESQUIRE Toll Free: 566.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquiresolutiors.com EFTA00182563 - Volume II October 20, 2009 • 1 2 3 6 7 8 10 11 12 13 . 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 217 CERTIFICATE THE STATE OF FLORIDA) COUNTY OF PALM BEACH) I, Teresa Whalen, Registered Professional Reporter and Notary Public in and for the State of Florida at large, do hereby certify that I was authorized to and did report said deposition in stenotype; and that the foregoing pages are a true and correct transcription of my shorthand notes of said deposition. I further certify that said depouiLion was taken at the time and place hereinabove set forth and that the taking of said deposition was commenced and completed as hereinabove set out. I further certify that I am not attorney or counsel of any of the parties, nor am I a relative or employee of any attorney or counsel of party connected with the action, nor am I financially interested in the action. The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means unless under the direct control and/us direction of the certifying reporter. Dated this 30th day of October, 2009. Teresa Whalen, RPR, FPR Job # 118991 . 0 ESQUIRE Toll Free: 866.709.8777 Facsimile: 561.394.2621 Suite 600 4440 PGA Boulevard Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 www.esquiresolutions.com EFTA00182564 - Volume II October 20, 2009 218 5 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DATE: TO! October 30, 2009 C/o BRUCE E. REINHART, ESQUIRE 250 Australian Avenue South, Suite 1400 West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 IN RE: L.M. I. EPSTEIN CASE NO.: 502008CA028052XXXXMB AD Please take notice that on Tuesday, the 20th of October, 2009, you gave your deposition in the above-referred matter. At that time, you did not waive signature. /t is now necessary that you sign your deposition. As previously agreed to, the transcript will be furnished to you through your counsel. Please read the following instructions carefully: At the end of the transcript you will find an errata sheet. As you read your deposition, any changes or corrections that you wish to make should be noted on the errata sheet, citing page and line number of said change. DO NOT write on the transcript itself. Once you have read the transcript and noted any changes, be sure to sign and date the errata sheet and return these pages to me. If you do not read and sign the deposition within a reasonable time, the original, which has already been forwarded to the ordering attorney, may be filed with the Clerk of the Court. If you wish to waive your signature, s