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Page 1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA CASE NO.: 08-CIV-80119-MARRA/JOHNSON JANE DOE NO. 2, Plaintiff, -vs- JEFFREY EPSTEIN, Defendant. Related cases: 08-80232, 08-08380, 08-80381, 08-80994, 08-80993, 08-80811, 08-80893, 09-80469, 09-80591, 09-80656, 09-80802, 09-81092 VIDEOTAPED COMPULSORY MEDICAL EVALUATION OF JANE DOE NO. 6 Monday, November 23,,2009 9:18 - 5:29 p.m. 250 Australian Avenue Suite 1500 West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Reported By: Cynthia Hopkins, RPR, FPR Notary Public, State of Florida Prose Court Reporting Services Becton PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. ns (601461-976-2534) b5cb7 EFTA00723681 EFTA00723682 Pace .- 1 APPEARANCES: 2 On behalf of the Plaintiff: , 3 JESSICA D. ARBOLR, ESQUIRE MERMELSTEIN & HOROWITZ, P.A. 4 18205 Biscayne Boulevard Suite 2218 5 Miami, Florida 33160 Phone: 305.931.2200 E mail: [email protected] 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ALSO PRESENT: Dr. Ryan Hall, M.D. Sascha Quimby, Videographer Visual Evidence, Incorporated 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 right? A. Uh-huh. Q. Okay. This is not an endurance competition. And I know your lawyer has mentioned this to you too, ifs going to be a long day, but at any tine if you need to take a break, smoke a cigarette, get some water, use the restroom, not a problem. We usually break at around noon-ish, one-ish to get some lunch and then well come back. We'll be doing some testing throughout the day too. We may break that up in between kind of the talking. All right. Any questions, comments, concerns before we start? A. (Witness shakes head.) Q. No. Okay. In general, I will kind of start with your background and go forward. Sometimes I will ask for dates that may be hard to remember the exact date. A. Yeah. Q. Feel free to ballpark. Just kind of let me know, around, I think, roughly. If I need anything more specific, we'll try and narrow it down. A. Okay. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 '25 Page 3 EXAMINATION THE VIDEOORAPHER: You're all set, Doctor. DR. HALL: All right. Thank you. BY DR. HALL: Q. Okay. And you're going to be filling this stuff out yourself, so — I think they just started the camera, so again I will introduce myself. My name is Dr. Hall. I have been asked to see you in regards to a lawsuit. So this is what we call a forensic independent medical evaluation. Anything you tell me may end up in my report. And I think a copy goes to your lawyer, the lawyers who retained me which are representing Mr. Epstein, the judge may or may not read it, I don't know exactly how all that works But just so you're aware whatever you tell me could end up in the report Usually when we see a doctor, there is the expectation of confidentiality. It doesn't apply to this situation. All right. Also, 1 am not going to be taking on treatment responsibilities for you. So, I am not going to be treating you, making recommendations, seeing you in the future. All Page 5 1 Q. So, for example I ask about how old your 2 parents are, I have been getting a lot of, well, I 3 think they're in their early 50s. That's good 4 enough. 5 A. Parents do not talk about their age very much 6 and you forget after a while. • 7 Q. After a while, yeah. This is being 8 recorded as you know so I would ask that you speak 9 10 A. Okay. 11 Q. So the transcriptionist can hear you. 12 A. I am a little nervous so. 13 Q. I tatderstand, and we'll just kind of take 14 our time and go slow and see how things go. 15 A. All right. 16 Q. Before I start, your name again is? 17 A. Jane Doe No. 6. 18 Q. Doe. Okay, just making sure I am seeing 19 who I thought I was. When were you born? 20 A. Vineland, New Jersey. 21 Q. Violent, New Jersey? 22 A. V-i-n-el-a-n-d. 23 Q. Vineland, New Jersey. Okay. What is your 24 date of birth? 25 A. 9/3/90. I 2 (Pages 2 to 5) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC.. . Electronically signed by cynthls hopkIns (601.0614764934) blkb74313-claea-4bc1-a5eb46350b265754 EFTA00723683 Page 6 1 Q. Okay. All right. Were there any problems 2 with your birth? Were you born early, born late, 3 premature, did you need to stay in the hospital 4 after you were born? 5 A. I don't think so. I think I was jaundiced, 6 but that's it. 7 Q. No time in the what we would call the 8 pediatric intensive care unit — 9 A. No. 10 Q. — or neonatal? Born in a hospital? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Okay. Did you meet your normal kind of 13 developmental milestones such as like walking and 14 talking and — 15 A. (Witness nods head.) 16 Q. Any significant childhood illnesses? 17 A. No. 18 Q. Can you tell me about your parents? 19 A. My dad is from Cuba. My mom was born here, 20 but was raised in Puerto Rico. 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. She moved to New Jersey when she was an early 23 teen. My dad moved — came when he was like ten, came 24 to New Jersey, and my parents met when they were like 25 20. 1 that and we don't ask. 2 Q. Was there ever any instances of domes! is 3 violence between your mother and your father? 4 A. (Witness shakes head.) 5 Q. And again to the best of your knowledge 6 was there ever any concern that one of them may have 7 been having an affair or being inappropriate? 8 A. No. When they split up, they, you know, I 9 guess, curiosity, they went their separate ways and you 10 'mow but — 11 Q. But while they were living together — 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. — and once they've been back together, 14 there's been no issues of that? 15 A. No. 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. During their separation is when they -- 18 Q. May have dated others? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Okay. And you think the separation was. 21 has only been for two or three months? 22 A. I'm not sure — 23 Q. That's the ballpark area. 24 A. I'm not really sure because their divorce 25 like, you know, strung out for a long time. Page 7 1 Q. Okay. 2 A. I want to say around there. 3 Q. What ethnic background do you consider 4 yourself? 5 A. Pm Puerto Rican and Cuban. 6 Q. Okay. 7 A So Spanish, Hispanic 1 guess. 8 Q. Okay. Did your parents marry? 9 A. Yeah. 10 Q. Okay. How long have they been married, or 11 any divorces or it's hard to tell nowadays. 12 A. Well, they got divorced in '96 or in '97 13 something. But they are still together. They are going 14 on 25 years I think. 15 Q. Okay. 16 A. Because my brother is 23, and they waited a 17 couple of years to have a child so — 18 Q. Okay. And how old are you? 19 A. I'm 19. 20 Q. Nineteen. Okay. So, they are divorced 21 but still living in the same house? 22 A. Yes. They, they only separated for a couple 23 of months but moved back in together after the divorce. 24 Q. Do you know why they separated? 05======ik ti vara ey don't usually tell kids stuff Mee Page 1 Q. Okay. 2 A. Like a year or something but — 3 Q. Okay. 4 A. They were in and out of each other's lives I 5 guess. 6 Q. Okay. Were you living with therm at the 7 time? . 8 A. Yeah. I was living with my mom and I would go 9 see my dad on weekends. 10 Q. Okay. How old were you when this 11 happened? 12 A. Like six, seven, around that area. 13 Q. Was this hard on you or... 14 A. I still sec both my parents. It was hard on 15 my dad, but that's why they got back together. He 16 wanted to see us more. 17 Q. How old is mom? 18 A. My mom is 45. 19 Q. Okay. And how old is dad? 20 A. My dad's 45 and he will be 46 in January. 21 Q. Mom in good physical health? 22 A. (Witness nods head.) 23 Q. Any history or any problems of psychiatric 24 issues or see a therapist, counselor? 2 5 A. No, I don't think so. 3 (Pages 6 to 9) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Ebotronically signed by cynthis bobbins (6014614764934) b5cb743b-doe6.4bc1-a5eb-16350b255754 EFTA00723684 Page 10 1 Q. What's mom do for a living? 2 A. My mom was an insurance agent, but since 3 everything, you know, slowed down, she lost her job. 4 Q. Sorry to hear that. 5 A. Since the economy has slowed down and stuff, 6 she lost her job, you know. 7 Q. Right Sony. No. I said I am sorry to hear she lost her job. 9 A. Oh, I thought you couldn't hear me, sorry. 10 Q. That's all right. 11 A. Yeah. 12 Q. Okay. How is she doing with being 13 unemployed? 14 A. She's started filling out job applications and 15 stuff, but unemployment gave her an extension so she's 16 trying. 17 Q. Okay. So, she's looking for work? 18 A. Yeah. 19 Q. What's dad do? 20 A. My dad is a construction worker. He works a 21 loader. 22 Q. Okay. Is that stable employment or has he 23 also been affected by the downturn? 24 A. Yeah. He's on and off. They, the most recent 25 work he had to leave to North Carolina. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 12 Q. You mentioned a brother, how many siblings do you have? A. I have one brother. He's 23. Q. Okay. All right. And what's he up to? A. Lost I guess you could say. He is still living at my mom's house so"— Q. Okay. A. You know, brothers and sisters don't really get along so we don't really talk. He does his own thing and — Q. How is his physical health right now? A. He's fine. Just doesn't want to go to school or is finding himself. Q. And any psychiatric problems? A. No. Q. The extended family aunts, uncles. cousins, things like that, grandparents, any with any significant medical history? A. What do you mean as medical history as in like mental history — Q. Usually I ask the mental separate but cancers? A. Okay. Q. Heart failure? A. Yeah. My, my grandma, my dad's mom she died Page 11 Q. Okay. A. And there is no work down here but since he came back, he's been back for like two weeks now and he hasn't had no work. 5 Q. Okay. Is he in good health? A. I don't know. My dad is like, the last time 7 he's been to the doctor was like the 80's. You know, he 8 doesn't believe in somebody sicking him with a needle or 9 something, so he doesn't go to doctors. 10 Q. Okay. 11 A. But he won't get sick a lot or, youlasow, I 12 have -- so I would say looking at him, you know. 13 Q. So, you're not aware of any health 14 problems - 15 A. Yeah, no. 16 Q. -- like high blood pressure — 17 A. No, no? 18 Q. or diabetes or cancer — 19 A. Yeah, no. 20 Q. or anything like that? Has he had any 21 history of any psychiatric problems? 22 A. No. 23 Q. And never saw a therapist, counselor, or 24 been on medicines? 25 A. (Witness shakes head.) -.- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 13 of breast cancer. So the girls in my family have on my dad's side a risk of getting breast cancer. My grandfather or my, my mom's dad, he had diabetes and yeah, he died last year. No, actually this might have been early this year. But he was in a nursing home for a while. They knew, you know that, you know, he had a problem, that it wasn't, it was getting to be his end. But my grandma had high blood pressure and she died from a heart attack. Q. Is that morn's dad with the breast cancer? A. My mom's -- Q. Mom's mother? A. No. My, my dad's mom has had breast cancer. Q. Okay. A. And then my mom's parents are deceased. Q. Okay. A. And that's her dad had diabetes and my, her room had high blood pressure. Q. Okay. And passed away from a heart attack? A. Yes. Q. Okay. A. And my uncle has now - he is still living. He has sorosis of the liver, but it's from a bad blood transfusion in the early Ws or something. 4 (Pages 10 to 13) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthia hopkIns (601-0514064934) bleb74 ae6-4bc t-a5ob 16350b255Y54 EFTA00723685 Page 14 3. Q. Okay. And again, if you know, that's 2 tune, if you don't know that's okay too. I am 3 guessing Hepatitis C though? 4 A. Yeah. 5 Q. Okay. And then the next question, anybody 6 in the family have any history of any mental health 7 problems? 8 A. I don't think so. My cousin tried to, I 9 guess, eat a bottle of aspirin or something one time 10 but — 11 Q. Okay. 12 A. — you know, she's just a distant cousin 13 but — 14 Q. And just to make sure I understand this, 15 she wasn't like three at the time and just got into 16 it? 17 A. No. 18 Q. This was — 19 A. She was 19, I think. 20 Q. Okay. 21 A. About, that's all because my aunt and uncles 22 are very Christian and, you know, so... 23 Q. Okay. 24 A. I don't think so. My mom gets headaches but 25 she's get a prescription from that. She works at a Page 16 1 you know. I know that because my dad comes over a lot. 2 But I mean, he has, he does drink every other day, that 3 you know, not every day but, you blow, more than usual. 4 Q. Okay. And how much would he drink at a 5 time? 6 A. Maybe like a six pack. 7 Q. And what does the six pack do to him? 8 A. He's a happy drunk. He don't even, you 9 know -- he might fall asleep on my couch or something, 10 but other than that he don't argue. He don't fight. He 11 usually keeps to himself outside. You /mow, he likes to 12 play with my dog and be outside by the fire and stuff 13 so, he -- 14 Q. What type of dog do you have? 15 A. I have a blue-nose pit. 16 Q. I am not familiar with that one, a 17 blue-nose what? 18 A. A blue-nose pit-bull. 19 Q. Okay. 20 A. She's a, her coat is -- well, her mother's 21 coat is gray with kind of like, you could say a blue 22 tint to it. So, she's black with a blue tint to her. 23 Q. How are pit-bulls as a pet? I mean you 24 hear about them in the news and stuff. 25 A. They are good dogs, if you train them -- I Page 15 1 doctor's office, but I don't really ask questions like 2 that, so I don't know what that is from. 3 Q. Fair enough. Okay. So, there was one 1 distant cousin who may have tried suicide? A. Yeah. 6 Q. Any history of substance use or alcohol 7 problems in the family? 8 A. My dad drinks. 9 Q. Okay. 10 A. My mom not too much, like you know, occasional 11 beer on the weekend or something, you know. 12 Q. Okay. 13 A. When my parents were younger, they 14 experimented, you would say. 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Okay. A. When my mom got pregnant with my brother she stopped completely experimenting or anything. My dad, a couple years back might have smoked some weed. Q. Okay. A. But he recently had been to get, you know, a job since it's so hard, they were Eking people. They have been really keeping up on the drug testing stuff. So as far as I know he's not doing nothing. But I mean, you know, a little, you know, he's not like hard core like going to get cocaine off the street or something, Page 17 1 mean, they arc protective, they — you know, to bark and 2 she's never bitten anyone, you know. I've had — she's 3 seven months old now. I've had her since she was 4 almost, you know, two months old or whatever and she's 5 never bit nobody. 6 I have a bad cat problem. This cat keeps 7 coming in my garden and stuff. And my cat, or my 8 dog doesn't chase her or nothing. She just looks at 9 her and tries to smell her, but she's a good dog. 10 My son doesn't like animals whatsoever. 11 Q. Okay. 12 A. So, you know, so -- but she's been around 13 other kids, you know, but my son, he won't go near no 14 kinds of animals. I don't know why, but he's scared of 15 them. 16 Q. And how old is your son? 17 A. He's two. Well, he will be two in March so 18 Re 20 months. 19 Q. Twenty months. And how's he doing? 20 A. He's good. 21 Q. And any significant health problems with 22 him or complications or... 23 A. No. 24 Q. And he is walking and talking and doing 25 all the things -- iNtean.124.4Astatiantfi-Sear.4.4.41..t, 1 5 (Pages 14 to 17) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Ebtatronleally signed by eyr4his hopkins (8014514764034) blkb743b. al36-41 1 1-a5e1PIA.157 EFTA00723686 Page 1 1 A. Yeah. 2 Q. that a two year old should be doing? 3 A. Yeah. 4 Q. I think you kind of already answered this 5 but I will just ask it again to make sure it's 6 clear. AS far as you know, no exposure to anything 7 while you're MOM was pregnant with you? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Okay. And dad's never struck you — 10 A. No. 11 Q. Mom had problems when he was drinking 12 where he lost his job? 13 A. No, no. 14 Q. DU1's, anything like that? 15 A. No. 16 Q. How long has he been doing about a six 17 pack every other day? 18 A. Man, ifs been a while. Maybe since I was 19 like 16. 20 Q. Sixteen? 21 A. Fifteen. You know, my mom and my parents 22 don't even sleep in the same bed together no more. i 23 guess they just — they still talk. They don't, you 24 know, fight, but I guess they don't want to be next — 25 he passes out and he sweats beer and, you know, she just 1 2 3 4 S 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 20 are religious, were you raised going to church? A. No. They tried. My, my dad is a Jehovah .Witness. Q. okay. A. And my mom's side was Christian or Catholic. So, yeah, they clash with how they were going to raise is I guess, so we didn't go to church. Q. Okay. A. My dad doesn't — before he was drinking, he, you know, was going to church a little bit but it faded. Q. Do you go to church now or... A. No. Q. Okay. How were you disciplined as a child growing up? A. I was grounded. Q. Okay. A. TV privileges taken, in my room with nothing. Q. And what would you get grounded for? What type of things? A. Out past my curfew. They said be in before the streetlights came on. My mom would tell me not to use my bike or something, and I would take it. Tell her I wanted to go somewhere when she told me no, and I would tell her yes, and you know kids stuff. Q. How was your family dynamic growing up? I Page 19 1 doesn't want him in her bed I guess. So, they dealt 2 sleep in the same bed. But i guess he drinks, so he 3 don't have to be around her. I mean 25 years of 4 marriage how, you know. They're not even married but -- 5 25 years together, I guess get sick of a person after a 6 while. 7 Q. It's -- they're doing better than the 8 national average. 9 A. They're trying. 10 Q. How was your childhood growing up? 11 A. It was all right. 12 Q. What did you lilce to do as a child? 13 A. I used to ride my bike a lot. I don't know, 14 play games with kids. I lived in this neighborhood. 15 There is a park in the neighborhood. And next door I 16 used to go there a lot and ride my bike and skate and 17 stuff. I used to do a lot of outdoor stuff. 18 Q. Skate as in roller skates or skateboard? 19 A. No. I used to have the four wheel skates, the 20 old ones. 21 Q. Not the inline? 22 A. No, no. 23 Q. Did you have a lot of friends growing up? 24 A. Yeah. 25 Q. I know you mentioned your aunts and uncles Page 21 1 mean good family, bad family, did you get along with 2 your parents? 3 A. Yeah, I guess. My, me and my mom got along. 4 When I was a little, little kid, I was attached to my 5 dad. i was more It a tomboy. But as i started 6 becoming a teenager, I was more, you know, my mom, 7 shopping and cooking and stuff. Q. And i was just noticing your jacket. Do 9 you like hunting and things like that or... 10 A. Ifs my dad's. 11 Q. Okay. I apologize. I am a little bit of 12 a slow writer, so I sometimes stop. 13 A. It's all right. 14. Q. Okay. And I know we're here due to 15 Epstein, so I am aware °tannic bit of what 16 happened there. But outside of that incident, have 17 you ever been physically, sexually, or emotionally 18 abused? 19 A. No. 20 Q. Okay. How was school for you? 21 A. All right. When I got In middle school I 22 started to get in fights and back talking teachers and, 23 yeah, dress node, and I guess you know teenage stuff, 24 rebelling. 25 Q. How old were you when you started middle I 6 (Pages 18 to 21) PROSE COURT REPORTING. AGENCY, INC. c ron ca y worm y cyn ta °plans (601-051.976.2934) bSeb743b-dao6-4bc1-aSeb-16350b255764 EFTA00723687 Page Gr Page 24 1 school? 2 A. Twelve or 13, around there, because I didn't 3 start school until I was Lice six. 4 Q. Okay. 5 A. Something like that. I was a late. 6 Q. Okay. So, were, you were kind of one of 7 the oldest kids in the class usually? 8 A. Yeah. 9 Q. Were you in any special education classes? 10 A. My fourth and fifth grade year, speech. I 11 have a bad problem with my S's. 12 Q. Okay. 13 A. I still do. 14 Q. Was this a speech therapy type thing? 15 A. Yeah. And I did it in sixth grade but... 16 Q. Were you ever diagnosed with, I hate the 17 word disorder, but a learning disorder? 18 A. No. 19 Q. A like dyslexia or 20 A. No. 21 Q. — not being able to add or anything like 22 that? 23 A. No, no. 24 Q. And you could learn to read okay? 25 A. Yeah. I mean, I would forget about, you know, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 little kid stuff. Q. I mean, what were they saying? A. I don't really remember. I mean, lace, oh, she liked her boyfriend or you like him or I like him, or. Q. Okay. A. I mean like. Q. So, it would be over guys usually? A. Yeah. Lilco, you know, girl stuff. Q. Yeah. I may not be aware of what girl stuff is, so I am not trying to be funny here. So again, if -- and again different people have different things they argue with and stuff, so but what your experience is is what I am interested in. Did you ever need to go to a hospital due to a fight you were in? A. No. Q. Did anybody you fought with ever need to go to a hospital or got medical attention? A. I don't know. They might have been bleeding. I don't know if they - Q. Okay. A. -- got medical attention, because once I was pulled off of them or we broke each other up, I went one way and the other person went to another office, you 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 a 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I don't know. I mean, he said, she said, you know, Page 23 like I could read a page and like not remember, you know, what I just read sometimes and have to go back and reread it, so... Q. Okay. A. Maybe I might have, but I, you know, I never found it -- Q. Okay. A. It was a problem. Q. And when you would write, you'd never reversed letters or -- A. No, definitely not. Q. Were you ever suspend or expelled from school? A. Yeah, I was suspended -- Q. What for? A. a lot. Fighting. Q. Okay. A. I wouldn't go to detention and detention leads to Saturday, Saturday school. Saturday school, if you don't go, it's three days in-school suspension. If you get thrown out of there, there is suspension. So, yeah, I had a lot of those. Q. Okay. Who would you fight? A. Random, like, girls that I had problems with. Page 25 1 know. 2 Q. Okay. 3 A. So — 4 Q. And do you remember how old you were when 5 that fight occurred? 6 A. I had a lot of fights. My first year in sixth 7 grade, more fights then because I was in sixth grade 8 twice so — 9 Q. Okay. Why did you repeat sixth grade? 10 A. The fighting. And I was always in the — they 11 had a, it was a grade office, so 1 was in the sixth 12 grade office and not in class where I was supposed to 13 be. So, I would get zero's or, you know, stuff like 14 that so I failed. 15 Q. And the time you had to be pulled off 16 someone, was that your first time in sixth grade or 17 your second time in sixth grade? 18 A. It was my first time. 19 Q. Did you ever use a weapon or take a weapon 20 to school? 21 A. Unit-tmh. 22 Q. Did you ever get knocked out in any of 23 these fights? 24 A. Yeah. I have gotten, my, I got my own couple 25 of times, you know. A handful of times. I could say , CIFW1•1•1“.6 , ...Vidi}e40.4.0•••2 7 (Pages 22 to 25) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthle hopkIns (801481478.2934) bee0743trdae6-4bel-a5ob46350b 6575 EFTA00723688 1 2 3. 4 5 6 7 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 26 the same amount that, you know, half of than fights I didn't win, you know. Q. Okay. So, I mean these sound like serious fights. This wasn't just — A. I mean — Q. slapping a little bit and pushing into a locker? A. I mean, no. I mean, like I might have been in like three, throe fights that there was actually like bleeding. Q. Okay. A. But I mean like, one of them the girl came up to me and like was in my face and pushed me. And I was lice, you know. For some reason a lot of girls, like when I was going to school, like to wear rings and jewelry and like really, you know, now that I think about it, you know, kids are really brutal but, you know. I was one of those, you know, kids that — I would have -- I mean, it's only a couple of times but... Q. Okay. A. I guess I didn't want to be the one that didn't, you know, have rings on her fingers that, you know, had my face, you know, all messed up because I have had those times that, you know — Q. Where people would hit you and they 1 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page A. There was, a lot of kids would go to either Wendy's because it's right down the block or between pavilions. They are never inside the school, you know, like, by lockers or where teachers could get, you know — Q. Involved? A. Yeah. Q. Okay. I mean, was this like how they showed in the movies where somebody would pass you a note and say be at Wendy's at 3:30 or else or... A. No. They would tell somebody else and somebody else would, you know — Q. Set up the time? A. Yeah. Q. So, you would go knowing that a fight was going to happen? A. Yeah. Q. Okay. And did you ever initiate one of these like meetings or — A. I don't really think so. I don't know. I mean, most of the fights that I started wore outside the school because my mom would always pick me up at Wendy's Q. Yeah. Did you ever tell any teachers Page 27 1 would -- 2 A. Yeah. 3 Q. — have ring and you would get cut? 4 A. Yeah. I have a couple knots or scars on my 5 forehead from them. 6 Q. Okay. 7 A. And then like down here and stuff, you know. 8 I have my own scars from, you know, and I guess you 9 could say I learned from whatever fight that I had 10 previous to that and... 11 Q. Okay. And you -- when I say ;mocked out, 12 I moan like down on the ground cold, not moving. 13 don't remember what happened, unconscious. 14 A. No, l mean — 15 Q. Is that what you mean by knocked out or 16 what, what's your? 17 A. — like I was, there is times that I was on. 18 the floor and somebody was on top of me just punching me 19 in my face, or you know, it was the other way around or 20 you know. I mean, I have never passed out during a 21 fight or had somebody else passed out during a fight. I 22 got knocked down and was like get in my face almost into 23 the concrete, you know, kind of... 24 Q. Okay. Would these fights occur like in 25 the hallways or would this be after-school stuff 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 29 about this? A. Teachers started getting smart to it because they got their own little golf cart and started riding the sidewalk, or there was some, some woods with the trail next to the school and they used to go in there and by to beat the kids to Wendy's before, you know, the rest of, before the whole group got there and, you know, a fight broke out. Q. Okay. But you never, like, told the teacher or security officer anything that was going on or that you were worried there was going to be a fight or anything like that? A. I wasn't the only person that, you know, was starting these fights, these fights that were in the woods. Q. Okay. Sounds Ince it was a rough middle school? A. Yeah. I mean it's not as bad as it is now. There's kids that bring guns to school and stuff but -- Q. Okay. Were you ever fearful for your life while you lived there? A. No. Q. No one ever made like death threats against you or anything like that? A. No. We would fight but not like kids now like 8 Pa es 26 to 29 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthla hopkIns (601461.976.2934) b5tb743b-dac6-4bc1-a5o 6350b25 7 EFTA00723689 Page 30 1 when they shoot-up the cam or somebody's house, because 2 like a girl that they like, little kid stuff. It's not, 3 it wasn't like that growing up. 4 Q. Did you have any problems with truancy or 5 just not going to school? 6 A. I had, one time they picked me up, but it was 7 bogus. It wasn't even like the real truancy because .8 they kicked me out of school. They told me to leave, '9 that I was disruptive. 10 Q. Okay. 11 A. Yeah. 12 Q. How were you disruptive? 13 A. Talking, you know, passing notes. I mean, 14 girl stuff. 15 Q. Okay. !mean — 16 A. That couldn't waft. 17 Q. Okay. If it was getting to the point 18 where you were getting kicked out, that may go 19 beyond normal kind of girl stuff. So that's why Pm 20 asking. 21 A. You know, I didn't stop and say, you know, 22 they take the note away, obviously, I wanted to say what 23 I just said, so I would write it back and do it again or 24 just keep talking while they are trying to teach and -- 25 Q. Okay. Page 32 1 skipping and not going to school and stuff. So, 2 they had me go to this, it's Excel or something. 3 It's an alternative school on South Shore. I don't 4 remember what it was called, but ifs like a 5 Roosevelt Full Service that they have down here. 6 Q. I'm not familiar with Roosevelt Full 7 Service. 8 A. They, they take dropouts and like, you know, 9 disruptive kids that are on Tamarind and I think like 10 6th or 2nd or something. 11 Q. And what was the name of that school 12 again? 13 A. Roosevelt Full Service. 14 Q. Okay. 15 A. And I don't, I don't even think 1 went one 16 day. The school was in a bad, bad neighborhood. They 17 were hike, like I was going through the airport, you 18 know, metal detector my legs, make me take off my shoes. 19 I could, I could only bring a folder. And I can't,I 20 have to bring a certain kind of pencil, you know, 21 because they thought people were going to stab each 22 other with them. So, yeah, definitely did not go to 23 that school, no. So, I was around 16 or 15 around 24 there, and I just stopped going to school. 25 Q. So, just to make sure I got this straight Page 31 1 A. Just not -- 2 Q. And I apologize, I may have asked this 3 already, but did you ever get into a fight with a teacher or authority figure? A. No. I mean, they, they snatched my, like, my a pictures or my books or like have notebooks or stuff, 7 they would take it from my desk. But I have never a physically touched them to get it back or like I tell 9 them to give it back to me, but never works that way. 10 Q. Okay. So, you may gotten into verbal 11 arguments with the teachers •- 12 A. Yeah. 13 Q. -- but never struck them? 14 A. No, no. 15 Q. Okay. How far did you go in school? 16 A- Eighth grade. I did a year in Okeeheelee 17 Middle. That's a school on Pinehurst and Forest Hill. 18 It's by my house. And that's the, when I got into all 19 the fights at, so my parents switched me to Jefferson 20 Davis which is on Forest Hill and Kirk which is farther 21 from my house. They had to change addresses to, for me 22 to go to that school and stuff. So, I went there for my 23 second year of sixth grade and seventh grade. 24 And then in the middle of seventh grade 25 they sent me to an alternative school because I was Paae 33 1 you went to, was it Oakville? 2 A. No. I went to three different schools, 3 Okeeheelee. 4 Q. How do you spell that? 5 A. O-k-e-e-h-e-e-1-e-e. 6 g Okeeheelee. Okay. And you did that for 7 your sixth grade year? 8 A. Yeah. My first sixth grade year. 9 Q. And that was a rough school where you got 10 into a lot of fights? 11 A. Uh-huh, yes. 12 Q. And then your parents kind of changed 13 their address and moved a bit and then you went to 14 Jefferson Davis? 15 A. Yeah. 16 Q. And you did sixth and seventh there? 17 A. Yeah, and I — 18 Q. And you had problems going to school? 19 A. Yeah. L 20 Q. Attending classes. 21 A. In the first nine weeks I was, you know, goi 22 to school, or I was doing good. I was getting A's, 23 and es, whatever. But I started meeting people becaus 24 this school, when 1 switched to that school, 1 didn' 25 know nobody because that wasn't my neighborhoo 9 (Pages 30 to 33) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthia hopkIna (101-061471,2934) becb74315-clae6-4bc1-55.5b 6 5 b 5 5 EFTA00723690 Page 34 1 wasn't, you know, where I lived. !just, you know, and 2 I started meeting new people and then that's where I 3 learned how to skip school. 4 Q. Okay. 5 A. And once I started skipping school, it was 6 like, why go if I can leave, you know. 7 Q. And were you getting into any fights at 8 Jefferson Davis? 9 A. No. I don't think so. I don't, I might have 10 got like, you know, like three or four referrals there. 11 But I mean like compared to where I ns before, I would 12 have got like that in like a week, you know, like a 13 couple times, I didn't, you know. 14 Q. Okay. 15 A. But I was never there. That's the point. You 16 know, like they would see me in the morning but not see 17 me in class. 18 Q. Gotcha. And who were you hanging out with 19 at Jefferson Davis? 20 A. A lot of people. A girl Nicole. 21 Q. Did you know Nicole's last name? 22 A. Danielle. No. I don't. I was in sixth, 23 seventh grade. 24 Q. Okay. Do you know Danielle's last name? 25 A. No. Page 36 1 Q. Didn't do eighth grade there? 2 A. No. I was, I started eighth, I was supposed 3 to start eighth grade in Roosevelt but... 4 Q. Okay. But you never went to Roosevelt? 5 A. No. I never -- I might have, like, signed in 6 fora day maybe but that's it. 7 Q. Okay. So, the last grade you completed 8 was — 9 A. Seventh. 10 Q. the seventh grade. Okay. All right. 11 Have you tried to go back and get a G.E.D. or 12 anything like that? 13 A. Yeah. I went and took the equivalency test 14 My reading and math are at a ninth grade level, but my 15 language is at a third grade level like my grarrunar 16 and — 17 Q Okay. Just to make sure I understand, so 18 you didn't pass the equivalency test when you took 19 it? 20 A. No. I wasn't at the grade level that - 21 Q. At the grade level that you needed to be? 22 A. Yeah, I was supposed to be in. I needed to 23 take, do a lot of extra work in the grammar part, like 24 punctuation and stuff, and I've never really finished. 25 Q. Okay. Have you tried to go to any, like, Page 35 1 Q. Okay. So, Nicole, Danielle 2 A. That wasn't even, like they weren't even in my 3 grade because like I said, I failed and then I was older 4 than I was supposed to. So all the kids that I was 5 friends with, weren't in my class. 6 Q. So, by this time you were about two years 7 older — 8 A. Yeah. 9 Q. -- than you were supposed to be. 10 A. So, I wasn't, you know, in the -- I wasn't 11 hanging out with those kind, those kids in my class. 12 Q. Okay. So, Nicole, Danielle, anyone else 13 you hung out with? 14 A. Jilissa. 15 Q. How do you spell that one? 16 A. J-i-l-s-s-a. There might be an I after the L. 17 Q. J-i-l-i-s-s-a? 18 A. Yeah. 19 Q. Okay. 20 A. I think that's how — she had a brother named 21 Walter. Those were, you know, like -- those were like 22 the main girls you could say but... 23 Q. So, were you at Jefferson Davis for sixth 24 and seventh grade? 25 A. Yeah. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 37 trade schools or anything like that, like cosmetology or -- A. I was looking at culinary school, but I need a, they want a GED or a high school diploma. And the grants are kind of it's — you know. They're kind of expensive. Q. Yeah. Okay. What type of jobs have you had? A. I worked with my mom when I was pregnant with my son. A. Okay. Where was that at? A. She works at -- she used to work at an insurance agency. Q. Okay. Which one? A. It's called A-Affonlable Auto Insurance. Q. Okay. A. They're an agency. They are not a — they sell policies, you know, they are not like Progressive Q. So, they are not GEICO but they would sell a GEICO policy? A. Yeah. Q. Okay. How long did you work there for? A. Well, my pregnancy until so, so I left February for — so February of '08 is when I left. And .10 10 (Pages 34 to 37) PROSE COURT REPORTING Electronically signed by ey opkIns (801.051-978.2934) AGENCY, INC. bscbusts-dase-4bct Asseb-teasotessis4 EFTA00723691 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 38 1 I got pregnant, but I was in jail September, October, 2 October to February. 3 Q. Did you like working there? 4 A. Yeah. 5 Q. Okay. And anywhere else you worked? 6 A. I trained for a week at Little Caesar's Pizza 7 but they didn't, I guess didntt have a job forme. They 8 hired somebody else. I was too short to work the 9 register is what they told me. I had to wait for an 10 opening on the line to make pizza. So, they told me to 11 keep calling. 12 Q. Okay. 13 A. And I stopped calling. 14 Q. All right. are you on disability or 15 welfare or anything like that? 16 A. Unh-tath. 17 Q. With your son were you a part of a WIC 18 program or... 19 A. When he was first born but not anymore. 20 Q. Okay. And what were you doing when you 21 were working at the insurance agency? 22 A. Filing and copying and sending out checks or 23 whatever. I didn't answer the phone or write any 24 policies or nothing. I was on house arrest so they were 25 just giving me, you know, apiece out, and let me make Page 40 1 things to different people. So somebody might 2 say — 3 A. That's why — 4 Q. - well the first guy I kissed I was with 5 for only like three weeks, but it was the first time 6 and so it was significant to me. Other people would 7 say, no, ifs gotta he six months or longer. 8 A. That's why I asked. 9 Q. Yeah. So, whatever you feel is 10 significant or was an important part for you. 11 A. No, the first time was not. It was awkward 12 and weird and — 13 Q. Okay. So, who were your significant 14 relationships? 15 A. My husband, my boyfriend now or fiancee, 16 Aaron. 17 Q. So, what's Aaron's last name? 18 A. K-e-t-e-1-a-a-r. 19 Q. Okay. What age did you meet Aaron at? 20 A. I was 16 going on l7. 21 Q. Okay. Were you still in school at this 22 time or had you — 23 A. No. 24 Q. Okay. Where did the two of you meet? 25 A. Whore my work, my morn works, there's a Page 3 1 some money so I can help take care of my son. 2 Q. Okay. How did you get along with the 3 other people at the office? 4 A. Ifs only my mom and her boss, the guy that 5 owns the place, so I have known him since I was like six 6 or seven. So, he is great. He is, he is very well — be loves my son very much. He's great. Q. Okay. A. He is really good. Q. That's good to hear. Have you ever been in the military? A. (Witness shakes head.) Q. Fs going to take some time and talk to you about dating and things like that. When did you start dating? A. Like 13. Q. Okay. How many significant relationships have you had? A. Two. Q. Okay. A. Like you mean relationships that actually like were something? Q. Yeah. A. Okay. Yeah. 'Iwo. 25 Q. And again significant means different 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21. 22 23 24 25 Page 41 neighborhood next door. And since I went to Jefferson Davis it was close to that. And a lot of the kids in those, in that neighborhood were kids that I went to school with. So, I've seen, I'd seen him one time, you know, Ithe, his name is Macho, I don't even know, lace, his redraw, I don't even know why they call him that. But I seen him one time and Ike we were talking and whatever, and he was with Aaron. And me and Aaron started talking and, you know, that's how I started. Q. Okay. How old was Aaron when you first started dating him? A. Aaron was 18, 19. I think he was 19. Q. So, he was two to three years older? A. Huh? Yeah. Q. Was he in school at the time? A. No. Q. Was he working at the time? A. Yeah. Q. What does he do for a living? A. He works construction. He's, works on a grade crew. Q. Okay. For like roads? A. Yeah. Q. Okay. A He just started that grade crew job though, I 11 (Pages 38 to 41) PROSE COURT Beetrenleally signed by eynthla honking; (301-051476-2934) REPORTING AGENCY, INC. b5cti743bilae6-48c1 aSeb-16350b255754 EFTA00723692 Page 42 Page 44 1 because before he was a — he hung drywall. 2 Q. Okay. ' 3 A. That's how, when I met him he was hanging 4 drywall but now he's on a grade crew. 5 Q. Okay. Again with the downturn in the 6 economy, working on roads is probably a little more 7 stable. 8 A. Yeah. That Chinese drywall didn't go too 9 well. 10 Q. Was he putting up the Chinese stuff or was 11 he? 12 A. Huh? Yeah. He was in Palm Beach working on 13 the island, and you know, Boca and stuff. So he —1 14 don't think he got any infection or anything from it 15 but, you know, I think it was only a couple of houses 16 they did, not too many. 17 Q. All right. And I think you said he was 18 your fiancee or something. So are you still seeing 19 Aaron? 20 A. Yeah. He is the father of my son. 21 Q. Okay. So, how long have the two of you 22 been going out? 23 A. Since January of 2007. So, it will be three 24 years that I've been with him 25 Q. January 2007? 1 going to get married or just kind of a perpetual 2 engagement? 3 A. No. We don't have a date planned. I am still 4 trying to work on getting a stable, you know, car, and 5 place to live and you know, because we just barely moved 6 in like a couple of months ago. So, I am still waiting 7 on the ring. 8 Q. Understand. Has Aaron ever had any 9 nm-in's with the law or any problems? 10 A. Yeah. He got arrested in 2006 or 2005 or 11 something. He was, spent a year In jail for burglary 12 and he was put on probation after that, violated his 13 probation and in March of 2007 and got out of jail June 14 of 2007 and has not been back since or has any tickets 15 or nothing. I was kinds surprised he got his license 16 last year, no tickets or nothing so... 17 Q. What do you mean tickets like — 18 A. 'affle violations. 19 Q. Spading, seat belt? 20 A. Yeah, anything. Not, haven't had no problems. 21 Q. Does he have any tattoos? 22 A. Yeah. 23 Q. What's he got? 24 A. He has Palm Beach on his back. 25 Q. Okay. Page 43 1. A. Yes. 2 Q. Okay. And is it a good relationship? 3 A. Yeah. 4 Q. Any issues with domestic violence or 5 dating violence? 6 A. No. 7 Q. He's never hit you; you've never hit him? 8 A. No. 9 Q. All right. How does he get along with 10 your family? 11 A. Good. My mom's kind of a — she buys stuff 12 that's unnecessary. So like, she buys extra stuff, 13 like, you know, women do, if it's on sale they buy it 14 buy two or three or six of them. And Aaron is more like 15 a clean and neat person. So, you know, when we go over 16 there, because she lives right next to door to me. 17 So — 18 Q. Okay. 19 A. When we go over there, bring the baby over, 20 whatever, he complains about the clutter, about you 21 know, the mess. She's like leave my stuff alone. You 22 don't live hem. You know, I mean, they butt heads like 23 any in-laws do I guess with their daughter's boyfriend, 24 but they have learned to, I guess, love him. 25 Q. Do you guys have a date on when you're Page 45 1 A. With the area code. Oh, my God. That's so 2 finny. I don't know why he did that. I mean, to brand 3 yourself, I guess. I don't have no tattoos. 4 Q. Okay. He's got the area code? 5 A. Yeah. It says Palm Beach and then 561. 6 Q. Okay. And as far as you know that tattoo 7 has no significance or no meaning? 8 A. Oh, well, he was born in Palm Beach and he was 9 born in Lake Worth. And i guess that's what it means to 10 him. 11 Q. Okay. 12 A. I think it's ninny. 13 Q. Because a lot of times gangs will? 14 A. No. 15 Q. Tattoos, area codes, and things like 16 that — 17 A. No. He is not — 18 Q. He is not part of a gang? 19 A. No, no. 20 Q. Because that's like an identification 21 thing? 22 A. No. 2 3 Q. So if you're in the same gang, you know 24 what area you're from or if you're in a different 2 5 gang, you know which turf. 12 (Pages 42 to 45) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cyrithis bodkins (601-0514714934) bkb743b-dae6-41x1-a5ob f6350b255764 EFTA00723693 Page 46 Page 48 1 A. No. 2 Q. No. 3 A. The only other tattoos are like his mother's 4 name and his dad's name and his, his brother died when 5 he was six months old. So that's the only other 6 tattoos. The only tattoo that is other than, you know, 7 family, is that one on his back. So, you could say that 8 was the one, he — oh, and he has a spider web right 9 here. But, so, you know, a spider web. He got those 10 tattoos before we met so... 11 Q. Okay. Did he get any while he was in jail 12 for the year? 13 A. Huh? 14 Q. Did he get any tattoos while he was in 15 jail? 16 A. Those were the tattoos. But we didn't meet 17 when his first when he did that year in jail. 18 Q So — 19 A. We met after wards. 20 Q. — the spider web he got in jail? 21 A. Yeah. All those tattoos. 22 Q. And palm Beach? 23 A. All those tattoos. I think that's one of the 24 reasons why he got them. 25 Q. All right. And you said you have no 1 Q. Does Aaron use any drugs or -- 2 A. No. 3 Q. Okay: Has he in the past? 4 A. Yeah. When he was doing that whole burglary 5 thing, I guess that's what, why he was burglarizing 6 people was — he had a problem. 7 Q. Do you know what he was using? 8 A. Cocaine. 9 Q. Did he go to a treatment caner or -- 10 A. Yeah. He went to the Drug Farm in, at the 11 stockade. 12 Q. Okay. And you said you had two 13 significant relationships. Who was the other one 14 since Aaron? 15 A. His name was James. lie passed away December 16 of 2006. 17 Q. What happened? 18 A. He shot himself. 19 Q. Pm sorry to hear that. 20 A. Yeah. 21 Q. What was James last name? 22 A. Sullivan. 23 Q. So, you met Aaron after lames? 24 A. Huh? 25 Q. You met Aaron after lames? Page 47 1. tattoos? 2 A. No. I have a piercing and it's because I can 3 take it out, and you know, when I don't -- because I've 1 had my tongue pierced and my belly but I've tooken (sic) them out and I got tired of them. So this is the only 6 thing. My ears pierced. 7 Q. Now, why a lip piercing? 8 A. I don't know. (teat of the moment I guess. I 9 didn't want to do my nose or, you know, my eyebrow. 10 That's the only, and I won't get a tattoo because I'm, 11 you know, I don't — I was thinking about getting my 12 son's name on my back, but I even put off on that 13 because I don't like needles. And to do that your body 14 is, you know, should really mean something, you know, if 15 you're going to brand your body like that, it's going to 16 sag to your butt when you turn 80, you know, so — 17 Q. Fair enough. 18 A. Yeah, so, you should be really, you know, like 19 don't put Micky Mouse on you, and you know, you're a 40 20 years old and you got Micky Mouse on you. I mean, it 21 doesn't, it doesn't look hot. It doesn't look good, you 22 'mow, so — 23 Q. I understand. 24 A. I actually put off on tattoos and stuff like 25 that. 1 2 3 4' 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 49 A. Yeah. I don't know what happened. It wasn't like I was looking or anything. We just met and just clicked and — Q. How old were you when you met him? A. Who, James? Q. Uh-huh? A. I was 16. It was like we were together for like six months or something. It wasn't really, you know, long, but it was like, you know, it stuck with me because, you know, it was a situation that, that happened. And like, you know, I did really like him, but I mean, we didn't end our relationship because of — we broke up because he died so... Q. Okay. So, where did you two meet, through school or... A. Throw)) friends. My aunt lives in his neighborhood. Q. Okay. A. I met him, yeah, where my aunt lives. Well, she used to live there. She don't live there no more. She just moved recently. Q. And I apologize. I know you said he passed away in 2006.. What happened there? A. He -- I don't know if he did it on purpose or It Wet an accident or whatever. a gun had and 13 (Pages 46 to 49) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, .INC. Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601.061 478-2934) b6cb7430-clae6-4bc1-a5eb.16350b255754 EFTA00723694 Page 50 1 the next thing I know I seen him in the middle of the 2 road with blood coming out of his head. So, i don't 3 know if that was like intentional. 4 We got into a fight the night before„ and 5 he went out with some guy friends or whatever. You 6 know, how guys do when they get mad and you know, 7 just mown be away. And he left and he came back. 8 He was drunk or whatever. And I don't know. Just 9 went outside, and I don't know if he was like, you 10 know, playing with it or because he was messed up, 11. or i don't know. But, yeah, he, he shot himself or 12 it was back here so i don't know if he like, you 13 know, some people do it like, do it up here or like 14 in their mouth, or you know, when they commit 15 suicide -- 16 Q. Yeah. He held it 17 A. Yeah. That's why I don't know if it was like 18 intentional or like accidental. Like he might have been 19 like swinging it around because he was drunk, or I don't 20 know. it was back here. 21 Q. Do you know why he had a gun in the first 22 place? 23 A. He was that kind of person, i guess. He liked 24 guns, hunting, you know, that type of stuff 25 Q. Okay. Got to bear with me on that one. Page 52 1 the location. But I mean where was he physically at 2 when ho shot himself? 3 A. Down the street from my mom's house or like in 4 front of my house now. Like my house is right here and 5 there is a speed bump like right here on the road in 6 front and — 7 Q. Okay. 8 A. And I found him on the speed bump. 9 Q. So, you said you were living next to your 10 mother? 11 A. I was living at my mom's house. 12 Q. At the time. Okay. 13 A. Yeah. 14 Q. But even currently you're living near 15 where it occurred? 16 A. Yeah. Yes. 17 Q. And you were the first person to find 18 him or... 19 A. Yeah. He was still breathing, yeah. 20 Q. Okay. Did he say anything to you? 21 A. No. He was choking. 22 Q. Okay. How did you deal with that? 23 A. Huh? 24 Q. How did you deal with that? 25 A. I didn't. I guess people get over grief Page 51 1 Some people like guns because it's, you know, Second 2 Amendment and all that. Some people like guns 3 because it gives them street credit or whatever? A. No. It was more that, you know. He was more 5 IAD — i don't know, like ho just liked them, liked to 6 take them apart and clean them and find out how they, like, worked or, you know, like. I guess he was more a like mechanical, like he wanted, you know. 9 Q. Okay. Did he usually carry a gun on him? 10 A. Not like on the street but like, you know, it 11 was in the house, in his house or whatever. 12 Q. How old was he? 13 A. Nineteen, I think. 14 Q. Okay. How many guns did he own? 15 A. Two. 16 Q. I'm trying to think. i mean, at 19 are 17 you legally able to buy a gun? 18 A. No. Not -- I don't think so, no. 19 Q. Okay. So, he kind of got them illegally? 20 A. Yes. I am sure of it. I don't think — they 21 weren't in his name or nothing, but I don't know if they 22 were like off the street or, like, you know, where he 23 got them because I didn't go with him to buy them. He 24 had them before we got together. 25 Q. And where, where did he -- I meant, 1 know 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 :5 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 5 different. I just didn't -- Q. Okay. A. — deal with it at all. Q. When I ask this, I'm not trying to be coy or funny or anything, but I mean, how has that affected you long term? A. I, I don't really !mow why he did it. I mean, in a way I kind of feel guilty because, you know, like, like, we were arguing. Maybe it was because of that but, you know, relationships, you know, and all the time, or you know, people fight. I mean, you don't go kill yourself or, you know -- Q. Right. A. — kind of lose your life over it. i mean, you know, you can work at it, not, you know, try to end it. Q. The argument you had, did you say you were over at the end of it, or was it justing an argument? A. No. It was just an argument and he stormed out and slammed the door. And we didn't talk the whole night, like he didn't answer his phone or whatever. i don't know. He didn't want to talk to me. I don't really know. I don't remember what we said or what -- I don't even remember what he said or what - I don't even 14 (Pages 50 to 53) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (801.061-976.2934) b6cb743b-dee41-4bcliaSeb46360b255754 EFTA00723695 1 2 3 4 5 6 8 10 it 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 54 remember it was about. It was probably just the littlest, dumbest, you know, thing, but I had to tell his mom. That was the hardest thing. Q. Okay. Do you avoid trying to talk about it? A. Yeah. Yeah. I avoid tying to talk about anything emotional or like, you know, I mean like me and Aaron talk about us but like pest stuff that like, you know, I mean, people lose their lives all the time. I mean, you know. I mean, I can't like stress my life over it, like, you know, or with time with my son, like precious, you know, good time that I could be spending with him to think about him, and you know, like my past issues that, you know, happened behind me. And I don't know. Q. Do you think about it when you walk by where it happened? A. Na really. I found the casing. I don't know, like, there was from this -- it was from the same gun, but you !mow I found it a while ago. L I still have it. It's in my jewelry box but I don't look at it or nothing. I don't talk his parents or his mom. I don't even go around his friends or anything. Q. Okay. Why not? A. I mean, l don't know what to say to them, how Page 56 1 Q. You said he was with me, so that's why I 2 was wondering — 3 A. Yeah, he's. 4 Q. — if you guys had moved in? 5 A. No. He was with me the night before, you 6 know. But when, before it happened, he left, you know. 7 I don't know. I don't think he called anybody just 8 hanging out with his friends or whatever. And I called 9 the friend that he was with that night and they said he 10 left and he was fine. 11 Q. Okay. 12 A. He was drunk but he was fine. 13 Q. And a little bit of an odd question 14 because again when you lose someone who was close to 15 you, that may be something you will never forget 16 but, how long do you think it significantly affected 17 you? 18 A. I don't know. It's — if I think about it, it 19 still affects me now. But I mean, like,' don't like, 20 you know, I just, it's a life that should not have been 21 lost, so that's why, you know. 22 Q. Over the last year if nobody brings him 23 up, how many times do you think about him? 24 A. Not that much. 25 Q. Okay. About a month, three months after Page 55 he was with me and, you know, !don't really have — I 2 didn't do it. But I mean, in a way it makes me like 3 feel bad to have to tell all these people that I cared about this person, you know, and that he died, and it's 5 not — because it's not fair to them. 6 Q. You main at the time you didn't want to go 7 around them or even today A No. I seen-- 9 Q. — you're still not going around than? 10 A No. I seen them afterwards, but only a 11 couple, I've only seen them a couple of days after, you 12 know, like the funeral and at, at you ;mow, at his morn's 13 house. But like after, I didn't really, you know, I 14 don't know if I should have, like, you know, but I don't 15 think that, you know, I was — they didn't really know, 16 want to hear from me. What do 1, you know, I had to 17 tell her, her baby died, her, her son, you know, it was 18 her youngest son. I had to tell her her baby died. 19 Q. How did she take the news? 20 A. Not well. She didn't like say anything to me 21 or was like mean to me, not at all. I just, you know. 22 Q. Was he living with you at the time or... 23 A. No. He just cane over, you know. 24 Q. Okay. You didn't — •25 A. His mom's house. 1 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page it happened, were you having bad dreams or anything related to it? A. I don't know. I know I had dreams, but like I couldn't see his face. It wasn't, you know, like nothing. It was like was trying to like just like, you know. I don't know. Like he was walking away from me, and I was like trying to chase him but then he was lace gone. It didn't happen long because 1— for some reason I have always had, like bad dreams of, you know, like I got into a car accident, I got, l had bad dreams about that for a little bit, but it went away. And I guess, whatever I'm going through I have, you know -- Q. Dreams about it. A Dreams about it for a little bit but it goes away, I mean. Q. Is it the same dream every time or is there variations in the dreams? A. It's the same blank face every time, like I can't make out the face or like see where he is going or like- Q. Bear with me, but is it the exact same dream with you doing everything the same way or is it kind of the same theme but there are different -- A. The same, the same theme, like, you know. Q. Okay. 4 15 (Pages 54 to 57) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Elsetronlealy signed by mega bobbins (001-0514764934) b5eb743b.dae6.4bel-a5eb-f6360b265784 EFTA00723696 Page 58 1 A. Walking or walking down the street or like, 2 you know, shopping or, you know, I mean, just random 3 places and I will just happen to see him. And I would 4 try to go follow him or something and when I turn 5 around, he's not there. 6 Q. And would you have the dream every night 7 or would it be kind of in spurts? 8 A. It was kind of like, you know, it was December 9 soil was around Christmas. We didn't celebrate 10 Christmas because I couldn't, you know. It was like 11 that, that month or whatever, couple of times out of 12 that month. But alter I met Aaron it stopped happening. 13 Q. Okay. What happened with the car 14 accident? 15 A. I got — I was on 1-4. 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. Coming back from the Disneyland water park or 18 the ski resort that they have. It's a water park but 19 they call it Disney Ski Resort or something. 20 Q. Uh-huh. 21 A. We were driving back and one of our tires blew 22 and then another tire blew on the same side and we went 23 to a complete spin and went underneath a semi truck 24 Q. Wow. 25 A. And he ran over our front, the front hood. 1 2 3 4 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 60 Q. Anybody else in the car with you? A. My two cousins were in the back. Q. Anybody hurt? A. My mom had bums from the air bag and glass in her arm and chest and stuff. Q. Okay. Do you know how serious the burns were? Were they like first degree, second degree, third degree? A. They didn't, they lasted like a month. Q. Okay. A. There's no scars or nothing. Q Okay. Did the paramedics have to come? A. Yeah. Q. Did you have to be cut out of the car A. No. Q. Okay. So, you were able to open your door and get out on your own? A. Yes, I was. Q. Did they have to cut mom out? A. I think she got out from the passenger side. Q. Okay. Did they take her to the hospital or -- A. Yeah. She didn't want to go because she didn't know what happened and she was kind of dizzy Page 59 1 And we got spit out, and we were lucky, very lucky. Q. Who was, who was driving? 3 A. Mme.'s]. Q. Okay. How long ago was this? A. 1 want to say 2004 or somewhere around there. .5 I know it was June because my uncle got married and they 7 live in Jersey. And we were in Jersey, and we came back and we took a vacation to Daytona with them and two of 9 my cousins and my mom, you know, had vacation or have 10 their honeymoon. And they left. They told us to go to 11 the Keys and visit my aunt and, yeah, and my mom, and 12 me, my cousins, my two cousins. And yeah, I know it was 13 June 2004 or 2005. I think it was more'4. 14 Could I use the bathroom? 15 DR. HALL: Sure. Why don't we go ahead 16 and take a break. I think we have been at this 17 for roughly an hour now. 18 (A brief recess was held at 10:43 a.m.) 19 BY DR. HALL: 20 Q. So, we were, just took alittle break We 21 were talking a little bit about the car accident. We 22 said two tires blew out and went under a semi-truck 23 and mom was driving on 1-4. Were you in the front 24 passenger seat, back passenger seat? 25 A. Front passenger. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 61 Q. Okay. How has that accident affected you? A. I don't go on the interstate anymore. Q. Okay. At any time? A. No. I've been on there like a couple of months ago we went to Miami to go drop somebody off at the airport. But heifer the way we took 441. So, l still like get really nervous, and so I try to avoid that. Q. So, like what happened for that little bit you were on the interstate? A. Nothing. I just put my head down, or I'm a real back seat driver. Q. You said you had some dreams related to that as well? A. Yes. Q. How long did they last for? A. I don't know. I don't know. I've seen a therapist about it and they told me I should take sleeping pills for it, but I don't know. They went away. I don't know how long they lasted but they went away. I just, you know, I get nervous by big trucks or, you know, people switching lanes too close to my car. I haven't been in an accident since, so... Q. If you can try and ballpark about it, did 16 (Pages 58 to 61) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Beetronleally signed by eyed* napkins (601-0514764934) bieb743b-dae6-4bc1.05eb-f6350b255754 EFTA00723697 Page 62 1 the dreams last for like a month, three months, a 2 year? 3 A. I don't know because I see them — I've seen a 4 therapist and I only went to her one time. And then 1 5 think I seen another one for the same, the same thing. 6 But I went to a program and they, I don't know, I guess 7 like when I am at stressed times, that they come back. 8 But I mean, ! don't know. It didn't last too long. 9 Same with the ones before, but they, you know, like I 10 said I dream about whatever I did, you know, that day. 11 Q. And what, what type of program did you go 12 to? 13 A. I went to a behavioral and substance abuse 14 program for juveniles. 15 Q. Do you remember the name of the therapist 16 and counselors that you saw related to the truck 17 incident? 18 A. No. I seen one lady one time. I don't even 19 like give her a chance because as soon as I walked in, I 20 started talking, she's like, oh, well, we need to get 21 you on some kind of medication. I was like, no, we 22 don't, because like, yeah. And I am not going to, you 23 know, they, like I had a problem with, you know, 24 substance abuse problem, but I don't eat any kind of 25 Tylenol now because 1 haven't — I don't know why I Page 64 1 a weak stomach, or that's why people are telling me 2 ulcers because you throw up so frequent, you know, you 3 get it or whatever, I don't know. 4 Q. When you throw up, you are throwing up 5 black stuff? 6 A. It looks like smoking, you know. !just 7 thought it was always, you know, the, the mucus or 8 something. That's what I have always thought it was. 9 But you knoW, yeah, it looks like pieces of my, my chest 10 or my lungs because I smoke. So I don't know if that 11 has to do with it. 12 Q. Bear with me here, what are your bowel 13 movements like? 14 A. Wow. 15 Q. I am asking you seriously. I am not 16 trying to be funny. I am being serious. 17 A. They are fine. 18 Q. Fine. 19 A. Every morning, but i mean, like, I wake up out 20 of my sleep to get sick. 21 Q. Have they changed coloration on you? 22 A. No, I don't think so. 23 Q. Are they black or silver-ish? 24 A. No. 25 Q. Or are they just brown? Page 63 1 haven't been to the doctor, but I have like a week 2 stomach. I throw up ill, you know, and really like 3 acidy stuff too, tomato sauce. And so1don't know. 4 Maybe I have an ulcer or something. But I don't, I 5 don't even take Tylenol now because it makes me sick. 6 Q. Okay. Hold on there. Bear with me. 7 There is one thing to have a weak stomach. Has 8 anyone told you you have an ulcer? 9 A. No. 10 Q. No. Okay. Have you ever thrown up blood 11 or things like that look like coffee grounds? 12 A. I have thrown up black and brown, like it 13 looks like, you know, it — some of it is not food. It 14 .looks like pieces of my throat corning out. 15 Q. Okay. When was this? 16 A. I mean, I was sick this morning. It's like 17 you know, I had I pizza yesterday so this morning when I 18 woke up I was like — I have been up since 5:30. So I 19 have been sick all morning, but it's, at least like two 20 or three times a week, I get sick from something, you 21 know. 22 Q. What do you mean sick, you mean vomiting? 23 A. Die I throw, yeah. And I don't,1don't have 24 health care, so I can't, you know, go to the doctors or 25 but, yeah. I don't, I don't know. I don't know if it's 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 65 A. No. They're just brown. I moan, it's, I mean, I don't know. Q. Okay. A. My stomach hurts afterwards like, you know, you get that rumble in your stomach that you have to use the bathroom and it should go away afterwards but it doesn't Q. Okay. And again I am not trying to be funny here, but are your bowel movements softer than usual or is it hard to wipe or... A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. I wouldn't say it's hard to wipe. Do you have to wipe frequently? Huh? Do you have to wipe frequently? Yeah. Do people say you look pale? No, I'm — Usually you look, have healthy coloration? Yeah. I, I passed out one time, but I mean, they think that was heat exhaustion. Q. How keg ago was that? A. Beginning of this year, somewhere around there. I think in the springtime or something. Beginning of summer, something like that. I went to the junkyard to get parts for my car and I didn't eat or 17 (Pages 62 to 65) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthle bodkins (6014151-9764934) bleb743b-dae64bc1•a5eb•16360b265764 EFTA00723698 Page 66 1 nothing that morning. We were out there until like 12. 2 And like at the junkyard there is little pebbles of 3 rock. But on top of that they take the glass and put it 4 on the, use it as, I guess, with the rocks or whatever 5 that are broken up on the ground There is a whole 6 bunch of glass everywhere. So, the reflection from the 7 glass or something, you know, it was lace beaming in my 8 face. And the next thing I know I was on the ground. 9 You know, I hit the concrete. 10 Q. Okay. When you stand up do you get 11 ►ightheaded? 12 A. Sometimes, if, you know, if I stand up too 13 quick or like if I go to try to pick up my son and lift 14 him up really quick, I feel like I need to sit down or 15 something. 16 Q. And when you had your son, did anybody 17 tell you were anemic or... 18 A. Yeah. That's the another reason why I have 19 this big coat because when 1, when I got pregnant with 20 him, they told me that I had very low iron. And to this 21 day I still, you 'mow, you could still see my blood 22 through my skin. And I can see still see red spots 23 everywhere. I don't know why. I don't bow. 24 Q. Did you take prenatal vitamins? 25 A. Yeah. And on top of that I took the iron 1. 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 _4 :5 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 68 Q. And are we talking like a teaspoon worth or a tablespoon, arc we talking like half a cup? A. Of throw up or like black stuff? Q. Of the black stuff. A. Like, maybe a couple of teaspoons. Ws like mixed with the yellow stomach acid, you know or the food from the night before. Q. And it doesn't look like anything you had to eat? • A. No. I mean, it could be because I drink tea and soda and stuff. I mean, it could be that, right? Q. But it's solid? A. Yeah. It's, it's like, little chunks. Q. Okay. A. It looks like mucus or something, you know, hawk up something being sick or I don't know. I was, just always thought it was from smoking because I don't, you know, I really need to stop. Q. It, it could. Sometimes when people have little bleeding in the stomach, that's what it can also be like. A. No. I haven't had like no, like, side pains or like excruciating pains that I feel like I need to go to the hospital. But like my stomach pains do wake me up in the morning to go throw up. Page 67 1 pills, but they made me sick also. I was sick through 2 my whole pregnancy. 3 Q. Throwing up or... 4 A. Yeah. But that had to do with, you know, the 5 pregnancy. I didn't, like, the sickness didn't start, like this throwing up until after I had him. Like, you know, like, six months or whatever. But I, I was sick 3 throughout my whole pregnancy with him. 9 Q. So, the recent throwing up, if I heard 10 correctly, started six months after you were 11 pregnant? 12 A. Yeah. It had nothing to do with the 13 pregnancy. 14 Q. You're throwing up about twice a week? 15 A. Yeah. 16 Q. And when you throw up you got black stuff 17 in there. 18 A. Yeah. It's from -- 19 Q. is it like solid chunks or is it -- 20 A. Ifs like — 21 Q. — pebbly or... 22 A. It's like spots and like the stomach acid 23 that, you know. 24 Q. Okay. 25 A. Like little browns ts or whatever. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16. 17 18 19 20 21. 22 23 24 25 A. Page So, when you get? Once I throw up I feel a little bit better. Q. Okay. A. It usually happens in the morning early and then, you know. Q. Se, you get morning stomach pains and you said earlier they sometimes wake you up from your sleep? A. Yeah. And I know I am not pregnant because — yeah, I know I am not pregnant. Positive of that. Q. Okay. You've taken a home pregnancy test? A. No. I got my friend right now. So 1' know I am not pregnant because I didn't like, okay, during my pregnancy, I didn't have, you know. Q. Okay. A. Okay. I don't need to explain it. But, yeah, I know I am not pregnant. Q. Okay. Meaning you recently had your menstrual period? A. Yes, yes. Q. Gotcha. Okay. A. I didn't want to say it like that but, okay. • Q. [will try and use medical terms. I am not trying to embarrass you. A. Yeah, I know. It's just not something I am 18 (Pages 66 to 69) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthia hopkIns (601-061476•@934) b5414743b4m6-4004504113806265754 EFTA00723699 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 /0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 70 used to talking about in my house. I got two guys, so we keep the if they could, they probably would put me in a little bubble away from everybody. Q. While we're on the subject, how old were you when you first had your first — A. Son, or when i had my son? Q. When you had your period. A. Oh, what I had my period. 12,11. Q. Okay. Have you had any problems with your menstrual cycle? A. I get cramps, but I mean, they try to control it with birth control and stuff And I don't get them so bad now. I used to when I first got my period. It used to be really bad. They put me, they put me on some like a stronger Ibuprofen or something like a 500 during my, when I start my period or whatever. They gave me like a couple of pills or whatever for when i started my period. But then when i became like 15 or 16, they told me that birth control would help, you know, with the menstrual cycle and the bleeding and heaviness and the cramps and stuff and all that other stuff. So, I got it, the birth control for everything but what it was for. Q. (Any. Page 1 Q. Okay. Compared to like your friends, your 2 motha's experiences with the — 3 A. i'm, my fiends i would say I am actually a 4 lot calm than they are but -- 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. I mean, it's funny because they are having 7 their own little problems with their boyfriends or 8 whatever. 9 Q. Okay. So, we talked about the stomach. 10 And I apologize, I may ask you more about that 11 later. And we talked about the car. How long after 12 the accident or how long do you think the accident 13 bothered you for? 14 A. Oh, it still bothers me. 15 Q. It still bothers you? 16 A. Yeah. I don't go on the interstate. I just 17 started driving. I barely just got — I got my permit 18 last Wednesday. And since I am 18, I con take the 19 driving test. But I have to wait because they want, 20 they told me that I would have to take paper, a license, 21 and a pennit if I get two different, you know, things. 22 So, since I am over 18, lean make another appointment 23 for another day to come back and take my driving test 24 and get my actual driver's license but, you know. 25 Q. Okay. Page 71 1 A. Obviously that's where AJ. came along, my 2 son, but T got everything but birth control. 3 Q. And were you consistent with taking it or 4 did you miss? 5 A. No. I missed, yeah. Ci Q. And again sometimes I know women can get a 7 little irritable like right before they have their 8 period. Do you think you have mood swings that are 9 beyond usual? 10 A. Not beyond usual, but when I get my, you know. 11 Who doesn't. I cook and clean and take care of a two 12 year old all day. 13 Q. There is a condition out there called 14 Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder which is kind of a 15 severe irritability, mood changes usually monthly. 16 I am sorry usually a week before. So, would that be 17 something that you would say describe you, doesn't 18 describe you? 19 A. I mean, I get my normal, get away from me and, 20 you know but I don't like snap or have like a breakdown 21 or you know, like, you know, start freaking out for 22 Lice, you know, like because of the salt on the ground 23 or like, youlmow, there is a dish, you know. I mean, I 24 don't, I don't think, but I don't know what normal, what 25 you would say a normal is. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 23. 22 23 24 25 Page 73 A. I did already take the test and stuff like that. So, you know. I do my license and stuff and you know, ! haven't — I just got it last week so I haven't tad the time. You know I have to do it sometime this week to get my license before Thanksgiving hopefully. Q. Okay. So, when you say you just got it, I mean you just, just got it? A. Yeah. I just got it last Wednesday. Like I just got it. I really put off on driving because I am really scared with my son and stuff like that, you know. Like, what was it, Saturday a friend of ours that was just leaving our house, Aaron's mom's . husband was leaving our house. And he got into an accident just, you know, just going home. Somebody hit him from, coming, making a U-tun or something, so. Q. I vologize. We ldnd of got off track a little bit. We were talking about relationships and then talked about what happened with one of the people you were, a significant person to you. Is there anyone else or any kind of other kind of traumas you've experienced? A. Traumas, what are you, what do you mean trauma? Q. Something you consider traumatic or that divarsecry...w.towseb...taa-sase-waesi taa.......—eatasi 19 (Pages 70 to 73) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed bycyn 'tallith* (601-081-976-2934) bileb743b-dac6-4bc1 -a5eb-16350b265754 EFTA00723700 Page 74 Page 76 1 was disturbing for you. And again, it varies. 2 Different people may find something bothersome. 3 Others may not. So, like some people talk about 4 hurricanes as being very traumatic. Other people 5 it's like, yeah, it was an interesting experience 6 but, nah. So, ifs whatever in your own life you 7 consider to be traumatic or... A. I mean, you have got most of it. My accident, 9 I went into a program but, I mean, it wasn't long. It 10 was like a month. It wasn't bad. 11 Q. And that was the drug program? 12 A. Yeah. It wasn't bad. 13 Q. Do you remember the name of that? 14 A. Learning Skills or something. 15 Q. Learning Skills or Lorraine Scales? 16 A. Learning Skills. 17 Q. Learning Skills. Do you think the 18 accident was partly why you were using the drugs and 19 was there — 20 A. I don't think so. I don't — I just didn't go 21 on the interstate because of the accident and then like 22 it would cause me — because if I wanted to use drugs, I 23 would have taken the prescription that they were tying 24 to give me in the first place. You know, that would 25 make sense. 1 A. 1 guess you could say that. 2 Q. And again I don't want to put words in 3 your mouth. So if I say something that is not 4 right — 5 A. I mean — 6 Q. — just let me know. 7 A. That's bow it started. That's how, you know, 8 that's bow I got introduced to it. I was hanging out 9 and they were like, hey, you know, you want to come over 10 here, we're all, you know, hanging out, we're all — 11 that's how it shifted and then, now, then, I guess 12 started to like the way it felt more than the way I felt 13 normally. You know. I guess it's different. It was a 14 home away from home, you know, like in my own head. 15 Q. Ootcha. While we're talking about it, get 16 a little more, why don't we do the substance history 17 now. How old were you when you first had something 18 to drink? 19 A. I'm going to try, I think I was 13 when I 20 first started. I don't really like drinking. 21 Q. At your most how much have you had? 22 A. To drink? Like three cups. Like I said, I 23 have a weak stomach. I don't, thinking is not really... 24 Q. Have you ever developed tolerance to 25 alcohol, meaning you needed to drink more to get the Page 75 1 Q. Well, I thought you said the program was a 2 dual program? 3 A. Yeah. But I was, I started my substance abuse 4 after that. And I don't know if it had, I don't think 5 it had anything to do with that. Oust think it had to 6 do with the place and the time. You know, some kids 1 7 guess try to fit in at first and then it becomes you 8 know, part of life, or... 9 Q. Okay. 10 A. Ora habit. 11 Q. So, using the drugs wasn't related to what 12 happened? 13 A. I don't think — 14 Q. — as part the accident? 15 A. — I was self-medicating because of my 16 accident. 17 Q. You don't thing so? 18 A. No. Because, I don't think. So but even then 19 it was not like I was driving or, you how. 20 Q Right 21 A. Where I'm on the interstate or nothing. 22 Q. No, DUI's or anything? 23 A. Yeah, because you know. I was just — 24 Q. So, substance use was mostly kind of fit 25 in with the people you were hanging out with? Page 77 1 same effects? 2 A. (Witness shakes head.) 3 Q. Byer have any withdrawal symptoms? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Anything negative consequences from 6 drinking? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Any treatment for alcohol? 9 A. No. 10 Q. Last time you had something to drink? 11 A. I had — what's today? Todays were in 12 November, right? 13 Q. 14 A. Inn& have had -- I had beer on 15 October 3Ist. 16 Q. Okay. It's the 23rd today. 17 A. Yeah. 18 Q. October 2Ist or 31st? 19 • A. Thirty-first. It was Halloween. 20 Q. Halloween. 21 A. After my trick or treating, and yeah, I was 22 already pooped out and ready to go outside. Kids and 23 candy don't work. They don't. Knocking on strangers' 24 doors so, yeah, I needed it. But yeah, like I said, I 2 5 don't really have to drink, so I like, I don't even 20 (Pages 74 to 77) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthla hopkins (601.051-976-2934) bgcb743b-n 6-4bcl-a5eb-f6350b265754 EFTA00723701 Page 78 1 think I drank the whole beer. 1 was already watching 2 scary movies and ready to go to sleep. 3 Q. Just to make sure I understand, was 4 Halloween more of an annoyance or does it really 5 bother you having people knocking on the door and 6 stuff like that? 7 A. I just don't like bringing my kid to knock on 8 some strangers' door and like, you know, take candy from 9 them, because then like he wants it now. It's not like 10 1 could wait to go home and like give him a candy, and 11 flip through it, or like switch his candy for my candy 12 or something, you know. It didn't work that way. It 13 was like he wants it now. And he just started learning, 14 you know, words like yes, no. Like he knows what it 15 means, tells me, you know, very demanding. 16 Q. So, it was tiring taking your own kid 17 around to the houses? 18 A. Yeah. And you know, to houses and trying to 19 keep away the candy mess and sticky fingers and, you • 20 know, walking into people's doors, knocking, yeah. We 21 had that problem too. He was like trying to walk into 22 people's houses like he knew where he was going. 23 Q. How old were you when you first tried 24 marijuana? 25 A. Thirteen. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 80 related to, you know, sometimes folks get a little paranoid when they smoke or they get the mumbles A. Oh, the mumbles, I mean when I smoked, they, yeah, I mean, down, and it made me not want to do nothing, you know, sit on your butt and, you know, just lazy, and you know, not really into do anything, just want to sit there and like melt into the couch or something. Q. So, it kind of sapped your motivation? A. Yeah. Q. My negative consequences from smoking? A. Not from smoking weed. From other stuff Q. Okay. And did you get treatment for the marijuana? A. Yeah. It was all one. Q. Okay. And that was the Living -- A. Yeah. Q. — or Learning? A. Life Skills I think it was called. Q. Life Skills. A. Not -- I put Learning Skills. You know, I might be wrong. I don't, I was there Ike a month. They have the exact, you know, name of it, so if you want to ask them. Page 79 1 Q. Okay. And at your maximum, how much would you snake in one day? 3 A. That was one of my drug of choices. Q. Okay. So, are we talking five cigarettes a day or five joints or less, more? A. Something like that. Like five, maybe seven, tops. But that was one of my drug of choice. 3 Q. How long did you smoke at that frequency? 9 A. Until I — 16, until I quit. 10 Q. Would you smoke every day? 11 A. Ub-huh.. 12 Q. A weekend thing. So, on average, how much 13 would you smoke a day if five to seven was kind of a 14 heavy day for you? 15. A. That's just normal. 16 Q. Normal. Okay. Did you develop tolerance 17 to marijuana? 18 A. Uh-huh. 19 Q. Did you have any withdrawal symptoms when 20 you stopped? 21 A. Yeah. Iliad some hot sweats but that's about 22 it. T don't 'mow if it was become, because of it but 1 23 haven't had none since. I only had for those couple 24 weeks, remember. 25 Q. Did you ever have any negative feelings Page 1 Q. Okay. 2 A. I don't really remember. 3 Q. And what was your most recent time using 4 marijuana? 5 A. I stopped using -- 6 Q. 16? 7 A. Yeah. December, 2006. 8 Q. Oh, okay. 9 A. After all that happening I got on — I went to 10 jail and that kind of opened my eyes to, to you know -- 11 Q. What's going on and what's out there. 12 A. Yeah. 13 Q. Cocaine? 14 A. Yeah, ! wasn't really into — I was more like 15 the downer type. So, I've fried it, but like wasn't 16 really — it didn't stick. 17 Q. How old were you when you tried it? 18 A. I was 16. 19 Q. And was this powder or crack? 20 A. Yeah, it was powder. 21 Q. How often did you use it? 22 A. I used it a couple of times, maybe like, you 23 know, like a hand MI of times, maybe three, four times 24 out of like, you know, the year that I tried it or, you 25 know. 21 (Pages 78 to 81) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601-061.976.2934) blicb743b-dae6-4bc1-aSeb413360b255754 EFTA00723702 Page 84 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 82 Q. Any negative experiences from it? A. Yeah. Paranoid, and you know, like, I didn't like it. And it's, just you know, spending all your money, you know you want to spend all your money on it or trying — it was just — Q. Ever take any prescription pills that weren't prescribed to you? A. Yeah. That was my drug of choice too, Xanax. Q. How much Xanax were you taking? A. Like three or four to a day. Q. Three to 4 milligrams or three to four French Fries or... A. Three to four French Fries, bars. That's what it was called. Q. Zanibars. A. Yeah. Q. Okay. I think those are usually like the three or four milligram amounts. And you were taking roughly 12 milligrams a day of Xanax? A. Yeah. After a while I became really immune to it. Q. Okay. A. I would, you know, wake up and, you know, want it and it was bad. It became really bad. Q. How — what age did you start? 1. Q. Okay. My other prescription pills not 2 prescribed? 3 A- No. 4 Q. So, no Percocets, Oxycodone? 5 A. No. 6 Q. Nothing like that, no Valium, Codamine, 7 Clonapins? 8 A. I've tried them, but I mean, like it was a 9 one-time thing. It wasn't more than that. 10 Q. Have you tried Clohapins? 11 A. Yeah. I have tried Valium. I've tried 12 Clonapins. I've tried — the Lorcets make me throw up, 13 so, and I've tried those but it didn't last long. And 14 then, so I didn't, any kind of it 'toe would probably 15 do the same effect, but, I've tried them. They really 16 stick as much as the Xanax did. 17 Q. Okay. Heroin? 18 A. No, no. 19 Q. LSD? 20 A. No. 21 Q. PCP? 22 A. Na 23 Q. Methamphetamines? 24 A. No. 25 Q. Ewa*? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 83 A. Fourteen. I'd say it was in between. Q. And used daily? A. I mean, in the end, yeah. But I mean, when it was just like every other day because I could wake up from the night before and still be kind of messed up from it, you know. Q. Okay. Any withdrawal symptoms? A. Yeah. Q. What happened? A. Moody and I was just mean and didn't like nobody. I didn't want to be around nobody. Cold and hot sweats, or whatever. Q. Ever had a seizure? A. No. Q. Any negative consequences from using /Canes? A. Yeah. I got arrested on October 2006. I got released Halloween of '06. I got put on probation January or the beginning of January of '07, or the end or something. Somewhere around there. The same time I met, before I met Aaron. It was the same time as Aaron and I got put on house arrest. So, yeah. I did two years of probation. Q. Okay. And the last time you used? A. December of '06. a.sk.N. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 85 A. No. Q. Never tried any of those? A. No. Q. Okay. Inhalants like Whip-its or — A. No. Q. Airplane glue or puffing gas or... A No. Q. Smoking — A. Huh? Q. Cigarettes? A. Yes. Q. How old were you when you started? A. Like 16 or 17, !started after my program, in my program because I was, you know — Q. Okay. How much have you smoked a day? A. I can smoke a pacica day. Q. And still smoke? A. Yeah Bad habit. Q. Any other drugs you have used or tried or, mushrooms, angel trumpets? A No. Q. Peyote, Special K, Ketamine? A. No, no. Q. And when you used your marijuana, did you ever lace it with anythin like PCP or cocaine or 22 (Pages 82 to 85) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthla hop*** (6014:151-9764934) b5eb743b•dae8.4bc1aSeb-16350b255764 EFTA00723703 Page 86 1 dip it in anything? 2 A. I smoked it with cocaine but that was like 3 once and I got, I got older cousins, that's another 4 reason I, I didn't really, you know, experiment with any 5 more. I've got these older guy cousins that, they would 6 put me in trash cans and like -- 7 Q. They would what? 8 A. They would put me in trash cans, you know, 9 like because I was, you know, I was always messed up. 10 So they would like, you know, like, what are you doing, 11 shaking me around a little bit, you know, like, cousin 12 stuff' guess. 13 Q. Okay. Would they be using too? 14 A. Huh? 15 Q. Would they be using at the same time? 16 A. No, no, no. They were trying to get me to 17 stop. 18 Q. Okay. 19 A. That was the point. They were big guys. They 20 were like meatheads, I guess you would say, really, you 21 know, like working out and staying healthy and, you 22 know, 23 Q. &Ache. Where would you get your drugs 24 from? 25 A. My neighborhood or — yeah. Page 88 1 and I got my purse and cellphone and stuff, my money 2 stolen. But, yeah, I was, I was kind of messed up then. 3 So, you know, i don't know really what happened or, you 4 know, how it went or who was there or whatever, but... 5 Q. So, you've been the victim of crime? 6 A. Yeah. 7 Q. Were you hospitalized when that — 8 A. No. 9 Q. Were you seriously injured? 10 A. I got these scars and stuff, you know, some 11 scars or whatever else. They are on my head and on here 12 somewhere. But my cousins, you know, they, they found 13 me and brought me home. I guess you could say I was the 14 negative at the time of my using, but 1 mean, like... 15 Q. Pm sorry. What was that? 16 A. I am saying that could be like a negative 17 point of my using, but I mean, it wasn't like1caused 18 it or like, you know, I had anything to do with It. 1 19 wasn't even like coming back from somebodys house. I 20 was just like walking to my house. And, you know, they 21 happened to see me or find me or whatever. Andl guess 22 I was at the wrong place at the wrong time. But I 23 happened to be, you 'mow, kind of out of it, so they got 24 a little lucky. 25 Q. Now, are your cousins protective of you 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 a 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 87 Q. Did you ever sell drugs? A. No. Q Did any of your boyfriends ever sell drugs? A. (Witness shakes head.) Q. Did you ever trade any sexual favors in order to get drugs — A. No. Q. — food, shelter, anything along those lines? A. No. Q. Did you ever steal to be able to afford it? A. Yeah, that's where my burglary came from. Q. Okay. What's the, the most violent thing you've ever done? A. Most violent? My fights maybe. I haven't, I haven't fought in like that long. It's been — yeah, no. Q. When's the last time you think you were in a fight was — A. In school. Q. School? A. I mean, I have gotten, yeah, my neighborhood's not the best neighborhood to live in. I gotten jumped 1 2 3 4 5 6 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 89 A. Yeah, very, very. Q And they are kind of plane living folks and work out but — A. Yeah. Q. body is a temple thing? A. Yeah, they are guys. They are brothers. They are, they are very protective. They have one younger sister and then me, and you know, I'm their cousin, I have mostly guy cousins. I've got like five girl cousins. You know. I've got like ten, maybe, you know. Sometimes Hispanic have got a lot of cousins and so on. And I have more guy cousins than girl cousins, so they are mom protective of me, you know. Q. And do they live around you now, or... A. Yeah. Q. And you have a good relationship with them? A. Yeah, they come over a lot. Q. I think I asked if you ever used a weapon in your fights at school, but do you own any weapons A. No. 23 (Pages 86 to 89) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601-061-976-2934) biScb743b. ae c )- EFTA00723704 Page 90 1 Q. Any problems with cruelty to animals -- 2 A. No. 3 Q. — fire starting, bedwetting? 4 A. No, no. 5 Q. Okay. Have you ever had any periods in 6 your life where you were homeless? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Okay. And where are you currently living? 9 A. It's myself, my boyfriend, and my son in my 10 own house. Ifs not a house, a trailer but, you know, 11 its my home. 12 Q. Okay. You said that's next to where your 13 mom's at? 14 A. Yeah. 15 Q. And your dad's living with mom right now? 16 A. Yeah. 17 Q. Okay. How long have you been there for? 18 A. Where, with my parents or my house? 19 Q. Your, your trailer. 20 A. Since July of this year, so a couple of 21 months. 22 Q And before that where were you at? 23 A. Huh? 24 Q. Before then where were you? 25 A. My parents' house. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 92 time here since we're going to be changing the tape over, so — legal history? DR. HALL: Yeah. THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Sony for the interruption, Doctor. DR. HALL: Take your time. Sounds good. (A brief recess was held.) THE VIDEOGRAPHER: All set BY DR. HALL: Q. So, this is going to be what they call the MCMI-IIL It's the Milan Clinical Multi-Actual Inventory. It's a standardized test. It's not — it's been out there for a while, so it's not directly related to this case or incident So when you read the questions, keep in mind that these are questions they ask people in general for clinical, legal for a lot of different situations. The instructions are the following pages contain a list of statements that people use to describe themselves. They are printed here to help you in describing your feelings and attitudes. Try to be as honest and serious as you can in marking the statements. Do not be concerned if a few statements seem unusual. They are included to describe people with many types of problems. Page 91 1 Q. Okay. I know you said your boyfriend 2 likes to keep things neat. Was he living with you 3 at the time you were with your parents? 4 A. Yeah. For, since yes, since we've been 5 together. Well, we moved -- I moved out and when I had 6 my Sal in March of 2008. We moved out and went to his 7 cousins' house for a couple of months and that's where 8 the FBI found me — so, I only lived there. 9 Q. Okay. 10 A. -- from March to June of'08. End of June, 11 the beginning of July. Something like that. I think it 12 was July. 13 Q. And when you say the FBI found you, that's 14 in regards to — 15 A. Yeah. 16 Q. — mr. Epstein or other -- 17 A. Yeah, it's in regards to that. 18 Q. Okay. 19 A. I was on probation, and I guess they came to 20 my probation officer and they found my new address or 21 whatever, because they went to my mom's house first and 22 then found me there. But I only lived there for a 23 couple of months, and then we moved back to my mom's 24 house after. 25 Q. Okay. I'm trying to keep track of the Page 93 1 If you agree with the statement or decide 2 that it describes you, fill in the key on the 3 separate answer sheet to mark it true. If you 4 disagree with a statement or decide that it does not 5 describe you, fill in the F to mark it false. 6 Try to mark every statement even if you're 7 not sure of your choice. If you have tried your 8 best and still cannot decide, mark the F for false. 9 Use a soft black lead pencil and make a 10 heavy dark mark when filling in the circles. If you 11 make a mistake or change your mind, please erase the 12 mark fully and fill in the correct circle. 13 Please do not make any marks on this 14 booklet. There is no time limit for completing the 15 invemory, but it is best to work as rapidly as is 16 comfortable for you. 17 All right. Any questions? 18 A. (Witness shakes heal) 19 Q Okay. So again, if you read a statement 20 and you think it applies to you, true; if it 21 doesn't, false. All right Got some pencils here 22 and got some extra ones. Usually it takes people 23 about 20 to 30 minutes to finish up. 24 (Test was begun at II:15 a.m. and was 25 completed at I I :49 a.m.) 24 (Pages 90 to 93) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. esefronleally signed by °intik' hoplcirs 16014514764934 blicb743b-daeb-sbo EFTA00723705 Page 96 Page 94 1 BY DR. HALL: 2 Q. All right. I have another test here for 3 you. It's similar to the other one. And this is 4 the MMPI. It's lightly longer. I'll read the 5 instructions to you here: This inventory consists 6 of numbered statements. Read each statement and 7 decide whether it is true as applied to you, or 8 false as applied to you. 9 You are to mark your answers on the answer 10 sheet you have. Look at the example of the answer 11 sheet shown at the right. So, again, if it's true, 12 you bubble in true; false, bubble in false. 13 If a statement is true or mostly true as 14 applied to you, blacken the circle marked T. If a 15 statement is false or not usually true as applied to 16 you, blacken the circle marked F. If a statement 17 does not apply to you or if it is something that you 18 don't know about, make no mark on the answer sheet, 19 but try to give a response to every statement. 20 Remember to give your own opinion of yourself. 21 In marking your answers on the answer 22 sheet, be sure that the number of the statement 23 agrees with the number on the answer sheet. Make 24 your marks heavy in black. Erase completely any 25 answers you wish to change. Do not make any marks 1 morning and I have a headache. 2 Q. Ileadache. Okay. Have you taken any 3 medicines or anything today or anything that -- 4 A. No. 5 Q. -- that could effect how you're doing, 6 beside just being sick and having a headache? 7 A. I don't, I don't know. I haven't woken (sic) 8 anything, but I don't know, like, you know, since I woke 9 up kind of early and... 10 Q. Okay. Is any of this nerves related to 11. coming to see me? 12 A. Yeah, I almost got into an accident on the way 13 here, so that might have something to do with it too. 14 Q. Okay. Were you driving or someone else 15 driving? 16 A. No, I was driving. 17 Q. Okay. Again, if there's things going on 18 or you're having trouble, let me !mow. Or if you 19 don't understand something I ask or if you need me 20 to slow down, or as again, this, this isn't an 21 endurance competition. Anything we can do to make 22 it more comfortable for you, then let me know. 23 Okay? 24 A. Yeah. 25 Q. Now, we got a little out of my usual Page 95 1 on this booklet. Remember, try to respond to every 2 statement. 3 All right. Any questions? 4 JANE DOE NO. 6: (Witness shakes head.) 5 DR. HALL: No. Okay. 6 (Test was begun at 11:55 a.m.) 7 BY DR. HALL: 8 Q. Ready for a break? 9 A. Uh-huh. 10 Q. By all means. 11 (A luncheon recess was held from until 12 1:54 until 2:35 p.m.) 13 BY DR. HALL: 14 Q. Looks like you wore one of those down a 15 bit? 16 A. Huh? 1.7 Q. One of the pencils. 18 All right. So I appreciate you doing the 19 tests and you had a chance for lunch and all. 20 Now I talked with your lawyer a little bit 21 during one of the breaks and she said you're not 22 feeling well today? 23 A. (Witness nods head.) 24 Q. What's going physically with you? 25 A. on my period, and I was throwing up this Page • 1 order, but why don't we jump back here and talk a 2 little about your legal history. I know you said 3 you had some run-ins? 4 A. Ult-huh. 5 Q. How old were you the first time you had a 6 run-in with the law? 7 A. Sixteen. 8 Q. Okay. And what happened there? 9 A. I got arrested for burglary. 10 Q. Okay. What did you take, or... 11 A. Huh? 12 Q. What did you try and take, or... 13 A. They said I took like four or 5500 or 14 something like that, $300 and some kind of paintball or 15 BB gun or something. 16 Q. Okay. What happened? 17 A. Huh? 18 Q. How did that happen? 19 A. I don't know. I used to hang out at the kid's 20 house and I don't know. 21 Q. Okay. Did you take it? 22 A. Huh? 23 Q. Did you take the stuff, or... 24 A. Huh? Did I take it? 25 Q. Uh-huh. 25 (Pages 94 to 97) PROSE COURT. REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Beetronteaay signed by cynthis heckles (601.051470.2934) blieb743b-daeli-4bel-aSeb46350b255754 EFTA00723706 Page 98 1 A. No. 2 Q. Okay. But you got charged with it? 3 A. Yeah, I was. Yeah. 4 Q Okay. What happened? 5 A. Oh, nothing. I got put on probation. I pled 6 no contest. I got adjudication withheld, so... 7 Q. Okay. How long were you on probation for? 8 A. Two years. 9 Q. Okay. I think I read some of the police 10 reports, and I think one of them said something 11 about you said you were taking the fall for someone 12 else with that? 13 A. Yeah. 14 Q. Who, who else was involved or — 15 A. One of my cousins and her boyfriend. It's all 16 over with. I did, I did my time for it. I paid the 17 money for it. I went through everything that needed to 18 be done so, to even, you know — 19 Q. Okay. Was it a female cousin? 20 A. Huh? 21 Q. Was it a female cousin? 22 A. Yeah, her boyfriend. 23 Q. Her boyfriend. Okay. Any other run-in's 24 with the law? 25 A. I violated my probation twice. I cut off my 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 100 A. We both got arrested and there was a bag of weed and he took, it was his or he said it was his or whatever and he took the charge. And it was no big deal. It was not like they found us, you know, getting high. Or they found us, me and him by ourselves in a hotel together. Q. Okay. And how old were you when that happened? A. It happened March of 2007. Q. So what happened when you violated your probation? Did you get additional time, or... A. I was in jail for the rest of the month. They extended my house arrest and they actually put me on a lower probation or house arrest. Q. Okay. A. They put me on Community Control 1, and originally I was supposed to be on Community Control 2. Q. All right. And then what happened with the second violation? A. They came to my house. They searched my house and found an old, like, pipe or bowl or something. It wasn't even used. It was empty. It didn't, didn't even have anything inside of it, and a scale, an old scale. And they, they arrested me and I was in jail for, like, a month. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 you. Page 99 bracelet the first time. Q. Why did you do that? A. Huh? Q. Why did you do that? A. I don't !mow. I really didn't want to be in my house anymore, I guess. Q. Okay. So when you were on probation, was that house arrest, or... A. Uh-huh. Q. Okay. What happened after you cut off the bracelet? A. They found me like a couple of days later. Q. Okay. Did you, like, run away from your home? A. Huh? Q. Did you rim away from your home? A. Yeah. Q. Where did you go? A. Altaic!. Q. Okay. Were you with anyone? A. Yeah. Q. Who were you with? A. Aaron. Q. All right. What happened when they found 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 101 I was pregnant with my son, and I got out like a month later. And well, I think all charges were dropped. I'm not sure. I don't know if they extended more of my probation, or I think they might have extended my house west. I'm not sure. Q. Okay. Are you still on probation, or is that all done? A. No, I'm all done. Q. Okay. How was the experience in jail? A. Not very good. Q. Okay. What happened? A. Nothing. I was 16,17 with a bunch of grown women. Q. Okay. So, this all happened when you were under 18? A. Yeah. But I was charged as an adult, so... Q. Okay. Why was that? A. My lawyer was trying to gel me -- I was — when I first got arrested, I was sitting in the detention center, and they were waiting for court or to figure out what was going to happen. And so he, I guess, made some kind of arrangements to charge me as an adult to send me to Gun Club, so then I can get bonded out and all that other good stuff Q. Okay. So it was a legal strategy instead i....r.Nat.ca6114nces.a.< PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, Eleetronically signed by cynthim hookIn4 (6014514764934) 26 (Pages 98 to 101) INC. b5c13743b-clac6-4bct-a5ob-f6350b255754 EFTA00723707 Page 102 1 of being tried in juvenile like an adult? 2 A. Yeah. 3 Q. Were you ever in the juvenile detention 4 center? 5 A. Yeah, in the beginning. 6 Q. What happened then? 7 A. That was my original arrest 8 Q. The burglary? 9 A. th-huh. 10 Q. How long were you in the juvenile 11 detention center for? 12 A. Three weeks. 13 Q. Okay. I mean, any time in your 14 incarceration, were you ever abused or involved in 15 fights, or... 16 A. No. 17 Q. Ever have any problems with hitting 18 guards, losing good time, getting tickets for 19 disciplinary actions while you were there? 20 A. Unh-unh. 21 Q. Okay. Ever declared incompetent or not 22 able to perceive? 23 A. No. 24 Q. Involved in any other accidents besides 25 the one you told me about with the truck and almost Page 104 1 offend, but I'm going to be asking some sensitive 2 things. Just so you're aware. Feel comfortable 3 putting whatever words you like to use. Okay. Do 4 you prefer men, women, or both? 5 A. Men. 6 Q. Okay. Have you ever had any experience 7 with a woman? 8 A. (Witness nods head) 9 Q. Okay. How many times? 10 A. How many times or how many people? 11 Q. Both? 12 A. One girl, a couple times. 13 Q. Okay. and how many male partners have you 14 had? 15 A. Three. 16 Q. Three. I know we talked about significant 17 relationships. You told me about two of your 18 boyfriends. Were those two of your partners? 19 A. (Witness nods head.) 20 Q. Okay. Who was the third? 21 A. My first. 22 Q. Okay. Do you )(now his name? 23 A. Roger. 24 Q. Do you know his last name? 25 A. No. Page 103 1 being in one this morning? 2 A. No. 3 Q. What happened this morning? 4 A. I was nervous and my leg, I like kept hitting 5 the gas and just kept like moving the car. I thought I 6 was going to hit the car in front of me. 7 Q. Okay. How close did you come? 8 A. No, I kept my distance. I was just nervous, 9 you know. I thought I might have to pull over just 10 because of people around me and, you know. 11 Q. Okay. 12 A. lust a worry, not, you know, like, coming -- 13 that I had to go on the sidewalk or nothing, but you 14 know, I was just worried I was going to get into an 15 accident. 16 Q. Okay. So, it was more of a concern. It 17 wasn't like — 18 A. Yeah. 19 Q. — tires screeching or brakes being hit, 20 just worried? 21 A. But I just kept hitting the gas and I couldn't 22 stop. 23 Q. Okay. I want to get a little more kind of 24 a sexual history from you. I'm going to try and use 25 medical terms. rm not hying to embarrass you or Page 105 3. Q. Okay. 2 A. And that's the one that was awkward. I 3 mean - 4 Q. You said it was a little rough. How old 5 were you when that happened? 6 A. Like 15 or 14. 7 Q. Okay. Was it consensual? 8 A. (Witness nods head.) 9 Q. What made it awkward? 10 A. Huh? 11 Q. What made it awkward? 12 A. We were stiff and no talking, and it was like 13 painful and weird and new and — you know, it was just 14 awkward like. 15 Q. Okay. Had anybody talked with you about 16 sex before that happened? 17 A. (Witness shakes head.) 18 Q. Okay. 19 A. I 'mew about it, but 1 didet have like an 20 adult figure come and, you know, tell me that the rights 21 and wrongs about it. 22 Q. You never had the classic birds and bees 23 conversation? 24 A. No, no, nothing like that. 25 Q. Had you had sex education in school 4.letlaaa.b.CCaat:Lee...4alitall•lieDe 27 ( P PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601451-978-2934) 85807438418•8-4841 -aSeb-16350b255754 EFTA00723708 Page 106 Page 108 1 • before? 2 A. No. 3 Q. Where did you learn about sex from? 4 A. Huh? 5 Q. Where did you leant about sex? 6 A. Random people, I guess. People around me in 7 my neighborhood or, you know, friends, or whatever. 8 Q. Do you have any sexual interest that 9 somebody may consider unusual or special or -- 10 A. What do you mean, like fetishes, or... 11 Q. Uh-huh. 12 A. No. 13 Q. I'm going to name some here just to make 14 sure you understand what I'm asking. And again, if 15 it's no, that's fine; if it's yes, that's okay too. 16 And interests can nut a large spectrum. 17 So some people Ike things like certain 18 types of shoes or like, for instance, certain 19 objects. Other people like to be tied up or like to 20 be tickled. Some people like to be urinated on, 21 defecated on. 22 A. No. 23 Q. Some people like animals. 24 A. No. 25 Q. Some people like -- there's a large range. 1 Q. Have you ever worked in the adult 2 entertainment industry or as an escort? 3 A. No. 4 Q Have you ever taken photos of yourself 5 while you were being intimate with someone? 6 A. No. 7 Q. Or videos? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Anything about your sexual history that I 10 haven't asked you that you think I should know, 11 would be helpful for me to know to understand what's 12 going on? 13 A. No. 14 Q. Okay. Have you ever used marital aides or 15 sexual toys like vibrators or... 16 A. (Witness shakes head.) 17 Q. Usual/1y after I Idnd of get the sexual 18 history, I usually hear about what happened with 19 Epstein. Do you feel comfortable talking about 20 that? 21 A. Yeah, I guess. 22 Q Oko.Y. 23 A. I mean, I just want to get it over with. 24 Q Understand. How did all that happen? 25 A. I was — a, a girl came up to me and asked me Page 107 1 A. No, no. 2 Q. So, no? 3 A. No, nothing like that. 4 Q. Have you ever tried anal intercourse? 5 A. No. Wow. 6 Q. As I said, I'm going to try and use 7 medical terms. 8 A. Yeah. 9 Q. I'm not trying to offend or embarrass you. 10 Has anybody stuck a finger in your rectum? 11 A. Oh, my gosh. What? 12 Q. Has anybody stuck a finger in your rectum 13 or anus? 14 A. Yes. Wow. 15 Q. Was that uncomfortable? 16 A. Yes, very. 17 Q. Have you given or received oral sex? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Is that uncomfortable or unpleasant or... 20 A. No. 21 Q. And you talked about your first time, I'm 22 assuming that was penile-vaginal intercourse? 23 A. Uh-huh. 24 Q. Has anyone used fingers to stimulate you? 25 A. f Witness nods head 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 109 „ if 1 wanted to make some money. And she told me we would go to some guy's house and give him a massage, that we would make 200 bucks. And she told me she'd call me the night before when she was ready or whatever. Q. Do you remember who this was? A. Who this was? Q. Yes. A. H.W. Q. Okay. How did you know Ms. W.? A. She was a friend of a friend. Q. Okay. And what did she tell you to expect? A. Nothing She didn't really give much detail about it. Q. Okay. Did you think that was odd or... A. Yeah, but, like, the girls that -- like the friend of the friend, the girl that I knew, that 1 really knew, she said she went over there all the time, Q. Okay. And who was that? A. Jane Doe Q. Did you knov., her last name? A. Doe. Q. Okay. And what did Jane Doe tell you about it? 28 (Pages 106 to 109) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by weds hopkins (601.051-976.2934) bilcb743b-dae8-4bct -fleb-16350b255764 EFTA00723709 Page 110 1 A. I mean, E.W. was really the one who was really 2 talking about it, but like Jane Doe assured me that it 3 would be okay. 4 Q. Okay. So you heard about it from kind of 5 two different people. E.W. was the main person — 6 A. Yeah. 7 Q. — that was going to take you? Did you 8 ask them any questions? 9 A. (Witness shakes head.) 10 Q. All right. Did they tell you anything 11 about how to dress or... 12 A. When she came to my house, she got chopped off 13 at my house, she -- I don't really remember. I don't 14 think she went over my clothes. She told me how to tell 15 him a different age though, and... 16 Q. How old were you at the time? 17 A. Thirteen. 18 Q. Thirteen years old? 19 A. Yeah. 20 Q. Okay. What grade were you in? 21 A. I think it was my second year of sixth grade. 22 Q. Okay. 23 A. I'm not really sure if it was my second or 24 my — 25 Q. Well, did you meet E.W. while you were at Page 112 1 Q. Do you remember Melissa's last name? 2 A. Capusta (phonetic). I don't know how to spell 3 it. 4 Q. I probably don't either. Capusta. Okay. S Give it our best guess. 6 Okay. So 13 going on 14. You think you 7 were at Jefferson Davis at that point E.W. said 8 shed come over and pick you up? 9 A. Well, she said that wed take a cab from — 10 Q. Okay. 11 A. - my neighborhood to where we were going. 12 Q. All right. And then what happened when 13 she came? 14 A. She — we left my house, met the cab in front 15 of my neighborhood. She was telling me how -- the only 16 like, thing she told me in the car on the way there is, 17 you know, how she would ride around Palm Beach bermise 18 she never had to pay for the cab or whatever, that she 19 would just, you know, ride around and then show up 20 there, and then, you know, whoever would come out and 21 pay, you know, the cab driver, whatever. 22 Q. Okay. 23 A. We didnI do dtat. We just went straight 24 there. 25 Q. Okay. And what happened once you got Page 111 1 Jefferson Davis? A. Huh? 3 Q. Well, did you meet E.W. through Jefferson 4 Davis or did you know her before Jefferson Davis? A. I knew her before. I was 14, I think, because it happened August of 2004. So, yeah, I was 13 going on 7 14, that's right, because my birthday didn't come yet. 8 So I was right, 13. 9 Q. August of 2004? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. How do you remember it was August? 12 A. A friend of mine, it was her birthday. Her 13 birthday is 8/8/88. She was turning 16. 14 Q. Okay. So they tallied to you about it at a 15 birthday party or something? 16 A. No. that's the day I guess we went over there. 17 Q. Okay. 18 A. It was august 8th, 2004. 19 Q. So, you had a really good kind of time 20 marker to remember it by. 21 A. Ws only because it's, her birthday is four 22 eights and it was her 16th birthday, and she got into a 23 car accident that day. 24 Q. I'm sorry to hear that Who was that? 25 A. Melissa. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 23. 22 23 24 25 Page 113 there? A. What happened when we got where? To my house, Q. Pm assuming she picked you up at your house. She got a cab -- A. She got dropped off at my house. We called a cab company from my neighborhood. Waited for them in front of the neighborhood, and then they came and got us. Q. Okay. And where did they take you? A. To Palm Beach Island, to some big house. I don't bow the street either. Q. 1 mean, was this Mr. Epstein's house — A. Yes. Q. - or was it a different house? A. It was Mr. Epstein's house. Q. Okay. What happened once you got to the house? A. She walked in the door like she'd been there before, walked up the stairs -- Q. Okay. A. — and I just followed her. Q. How were you doing at this time? A. Nervous. I thought, I have never been in a big house like that. So I was like, looking around or, 29 (Pages 110 to 113) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthia hopldne (601-051470-2934) b5cb743b-dae6-4bc1-a5eb46350b255754 EFTA00723710 Page 114 1 you know. I don't really remember much. 1 remember 2 stairs and a door that hadlike -- 3 Q. Do you remember what you were nervous 4 about or... 5 A. No. Just, I don't know. I felt weird. 6 Q. Okay. 7 A. But we went to this door. it was up the 8 stairs. We went inside the door, and it had a massage 9 table. And I remember like a sauna or some kind of 10 steam room in there too. 11 Q. Okay. 3.2 A. The, there was another door that led to an 13 office, not the door that we came in. It was another 14 door on the other, like, on the other side, whatever, on 15 another wall, that had a door that led to an office. 16 Because when I was done, that's where I went. it was in 17 that office, and waited for E.W to finish whatever she 18 was doing,. 19 Q. So, the first time you went, did you give 20 a massage? 21 A. Huh? 22 Q. The first time that you went, did you give 23 a massage? 24 A. That -- that was supposed to be, I guess you 25 would say. That's how it started. She was in the room Page 116 1 A. — in the beginning. It didn't like, it 2 wasn't like she got him ready or you know, like, ho 3 didn't know what was going on. it was both of us were 4 in the room. 5 Q. Olcay. 6 A. He laid on the table. We were acting, I guess 7 you'd say, we were giving him a massage, and then — 8 Q. Okay. 9 A. — she left the room. And he took off his 10 clothes and then asked me if I wanted to take off my 11 clothes. 12 Q. Okay. I'm sony. Thank you. That's -- 13 let me try to go back and make sure I got this 14 straight You went there, went in the house. She 15 knew where she was going. Went up the stairs, went 16 into the room where the massage table was — 17 A. Yeah, and he was laying on the massage table 18 hie he was going to get an actual massage. But she 19 walked out. I stayed in. He took off his clothes and 20 then asked me if I wanted to, or asked me if I was going 21 to take off my clothes. 22 Q. So, he was akeady on the table? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. You both walked in? 25 A. Yes. Page 115 1 and he would like, like just put lila:, a towel or 2 something or like his robe over his butt or whatever. 3 Laid down and then the next thing I know is he walked out and he was without the robe. Q. Okay. I'm sorry. i just want to make sure I'm understanding. So, you went there. She went into the room — A. Yeah, with me. 9 Q. — with you? 10 A. And then she went into the other room or 11 whatever and waited. 12 Q. Okay. 13 A. And then when I was done, I went into that 14 room and she came into when Epstein was and then I 15 don't know, !wasn't in the room, so i don't !mow what 16 she did. 17 Q. Okay. So the first time you went to the 18 house, though, you did not give him a massage? 19 A. It was, it was like you, i mean, he 20 Q. That's what I'm trying to understand. 21 A. Okay. 22 Q. She went into the roam and massaged him? 23 A. .look, no, no. We were together. We were both 24 in the room — 25 Q. Okny. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21. 22 23 24 25 Page 117 Q. Did she stay at all while you were touching him? A. No. Q. No. Okay. So, she walked in said hi — A. It, she - Q. - here she is? A. No, she walked in with me. He was laying on the table like an actual massage. She started rubbing his back, and then not even like a couple of minutes later, not even Illce a minute, she walked out of the MOM. Q. Okay. A. And then he flips over and looks at me and starts talking to me like asking me if I want to take off my clothes and whatever. Q. Nobody had said to you that there was a possibility that he may ask you to get more comfortable? A. Yeah, no one told me that l was going to be taking off my clothes, or any you know, he was going to be touching me or anything like that. Q. And what did you do? A. Huh? Q. What did you do then? A. Once he asked me to take off my clothes, i I 30 (Pages 114 to 117) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601-051.976-2934) beeb743b-dae6.4bc1-a5eb.t6350b265754 EFTA00723711 Page 118 1 took off my shin and my bra and my or my pants. 1 2 did not take off my underwear. 3 Q. Why did you do that? 4 A. I didn't, I didn't — what take off my clothes 5 a not take off my underwear? 6 Q. No, take off your clothes. 7 A. Because, I don't know, I mean, I was nervous. 8 1 was by myself. I didn't know what to do. You know, I 9 didn't know. I didn't feel like I could say yes. Me, 10 I was by myself, hopefully, you know, what was I 11 supposed to do, tell him no and then try to run? I 12 mean, like, you know, I weighed like 80 pounds. I mean, 13 I was terrified. 14 Q. And when she left, why didn't you walk out 15 with her? 16 A. I was like stuck. I, T didn't, I didn't know 17 what to do. 18 Q. Had 13.W. ever touched you before? 19 A. No. 20 Q. So, you were not worried what she would do 21 to you? 22 A. No, I wasn't worried about her at all. I was 23 worried about him. 24 Q. Did he threaten you? 25 A. (Witness shakes head.) He didn't need to. He Page 120 1 Q. Did you tell him you weren't comfortable 2 taking off your clothes? 3 A. I told him I wasn't comfortable taking off my 4 underwear. 5 Q. Okay. What did he say? 6 A. He didn't say anything. 7 Q. What happened after that? A. He was touching my chest and started 9 masturbating or whatever. And I just stood there froze, 10 stuck. I didn't — I think he might have asked me my 11 age in between all of that, and that's it. 12 Q. Okay. What happened afterwards? 13 A. After he was done, he went into the sauna or 14 to the steam shower and went in there, and I got my 15 money out of his robe. And I don't know if he like told 16 me, I don't remember, I don't know if he told me the 17 money was there. I don't know, it's- 18 Q. Okay. 19 A. But I know when he was done or whatever, he 20 got up, went to the sauna andIwent out the room. 21 Q. Pm sorry. You said what? 22 A. And I went out the room. I don't remember 23 much. I don't even know if, like, he finished or, if 24 what happened. I don't even know what it looked like or 25 what he — I don't know. I don't even know if he put Page 119 1 was bigger than me, and he was — I was a child, you 2 know. 3 Q. Now, he didn't verbally say, if you don't I do this, they will be a problem? A. (Witness shakes head.) 6 Q. Did he raise his voice? A. No. 3 Q. Had any other adult ever threatened you or 9 hurl you? 10 A. No. What do you mean by adult? 11 Q Well, you said he was bigger than l was, 12 so he didn't have to threaten me because, you blow, 13 I was just already scared. Anybody else ever 14 threaten you as an adult that was bigger? 15 A. Other than my parents occasionally telling me 16 they were going to whip my butt, I mean, thafs it. You 17 know. I mean, I had I don't have like big people 18 coming in my face and telling me that if I don't do 19 something for them, they are going to beat me up. I 20 mean, ifs not like that. But I just felt like I was in 23. a lose/lose situation, like — 22 Q. Did you have a cellphone with you? 23 A. No. 24 Q. Did you have a purse? 25 A. I had a purse, but no cellphone, Page 121 1 his towel back on afterwards and went into the sauna. I 2 don't, I don't know. 3 Q. Was this the first time you had seen a man 4 naked? 5 A. Was it the first time? No, I was with that 6 one kid before that, but that's it Like I said, the 7 first time was awkward. I didn't even know what I was 8 doing. I didn't even know how to touch somebody or 9 lace, you know, be intimate with somebody, sol didn't 10 know. 11 Q. Okay. Did you go back a second time? 12 A. No. 13 Q. Did you ever bring anyone else? 14 A. Nope. We didn't even talk about it after we 15 left. 16 Q. Why not? 17 A. What's to talk about? She wasn't in the room, 18 so why would I toll her about it. She already knew what 19 was going to happen. 20 Q. Meaning, why did you do that to me, or how 21 could you do that to me, or you should have known? 22 A. I don't know. It's like I knew, tike, she 23 knew. I mean, I don't bow. I mean, we just didn't 24 talk about it. There was, you know, we just walked to 25 the City Place, caught a bus, and left. PROSE COURT REPORTING Electronically signed by cynthia hopkIns (601-051.978-2934) 31 (Pages 118 to 121) AGENCY, INC. beicb743b-dae6-4bc1-aSob-16350b255754 EFTA00723712 Page 122 1 Q. Did you tell your parents? 2 A. I didn't tell anybody. 3 Q. Why not? 4 A. What's to tell? I mean, I feel more, like, 5 low and lousy that 1 would even consider to go over to 6 somebody's house like that. Why would I tell somebody, 7 so then they think of me low, and 1 just... 8 Q. Did you think about calling the police? 9 A. The only reason that this is even going on is 10 because the FBI found me. I didn't go looking for this. 11 1 didn't even know like that any of this was occurring 12 until they came to my probation. They was looking for 13 me and then got my address and came to my house. 14 And I didn't even tell them that at first. 15 I, I — my, my clad was there, my probation officer 16 was there. So I, I was scared to say anything. So, 17 a couple of days later -- 18 Q. What, what were you scared of? 19 A. People knowing. I was scared of being 20 violated for probation. 1 mean, I just, you know, I 21 just had my son. 1 was scared of losing everything 1 22 worked for. And I had to call the lady a couple of days 23 later. And just, I don't know. She had me, she had me 24 tell her the same stuff that -- I've might seen her like 25 twice, maybe three times. She sent me a letter. Told 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 124 me if — I think she called me one time and asked me if I wanted to go back, and I like, hung up on her and told her no or like, you know, like, I even talked to her. I told her no and hung up. I was just... Q. Okay. How do you think this episode has affected you? A. I don't know. I mean, getting out of, you know, the therapist's office, and I went to a after my program I was — they sent me to Columbia because they said I was trying to kill myself or hurt myself or something. I mean, I've attempted, but it was never like, you know, had to go to the hospital for it. Never really, it was more like self-mutilating instead of like suicide. But it didn't happen in my program. It didn't even happen around then. It was before then, but I had a history of it, so they sent me to Columbia. Q. When was the first time you did that? A. Hurt myself? Q. Uh-huh. A. I don't know. Like 14. Q. Okay. What did you do? A. 1 started with cutting my legs because nobody could see it. And then I just started doing my arms and covering up or something. Q. Did it leave scars? Page 123 1 me I could contact an attorney if i like, or something 2 like that. I don't know. I didn't even, I didn't even 3 like go looking for this, you know. I just, I was 4 trying to forget. 5 Q. And I don't want to know anything that you 6 have discussed with your lawyers, but without 7 getting into those conversations, why did you decide 8 to join the lawsuit? 9 A. Because ifs not fair. It's not fair that he 10 like does this to people, like to little girls. 1, I 11 don't even know what 1 would do if my son was ever hurt 12 in any kind of way like, you know, any kind of child 13 abuse, neglect is wrong. And it's not even like, you 14 know, I was looking for, you know, something. I don't 15 know. I just, I just felt it was wrong, and I guess I 16 had to tell somebody. 17 Q. Do you want a moment? 18 A. No, 1 just want to get this done. 1 just want 19 to go home. I want to be with my son. 20 Q. Did you talk with Jane Doe afterwards and 21 say why didn't you tell me? 22 A. I didn't even go over there no more. I 23 stopped hanging out with them completely. 24 Q. Why was that? 25 A. Because E.W. -- afterwards E.W. E.W. asked 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 it. Page 125 A. 1 don't know if you can see. I can still see Q. My apologies. fm not trying to be funny, A. Right there and right there and right there and right there. You don't see the scars? Q. Honestly I don't. I'm having trouble making them out. Like that? A. Yeah. Q. And there, across — A. And there, yeah. Q. Okay. A. Go all the way down. They kind of went away. Q. Okay. A. Yeah. They are there. That's why I said it was never like really that I ever had to go to the hospital or lost a lot of blood because it was just more like — Q. It was more just scratching? A. Yeah. But I mean, it wasn't good. Q. What were you using? A. Either a razor or, you know, like, my shaven or something. Q. How long would you cut for? A. Couple of minutes, maybe a couple of times, 32 (Pages 122 to 125) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthla hot:edits (601.061.976.2934) biScb743b-das6-4bc1-aSeb-f6360b265754 EFTA00723713 Page 126 Page 128 1 and then just sit there. 2 Q. And I apologize, I may have said this, but 3 what was the point of the cutting? 4 A. I don't know. I guess to feel something other 5 than depression and sadness and just, I guess, make sure 6 Pm alive. I was just so lonely and sad and miserable. 7 Q. Over what period of time were you cutting? 8 A. From like 14 until before I got in my program. 9 Q. So 14 to about 16, I think you said, you 10 were in the program? 11 A. Yeah. It was like I was, I think I was 15 12 going on 16 because I went in March. No, it might have 13 been 2005. I know it was March, maybe 2006. I don't 14 really know because one of those years, yeah, l stopped 15 after 1 came after I came through my program. 16 Q. You haven't cut yourself since the 17 program? 18 A. Yeah, no, I haven't. 19 Q. And 1 know you said that it wasn't a 20 suicide attempt. Have you actually had a real 21 suicide attempt where you did something with the 22 intention of dying? 23 A. No. 24 Q. No. Okay. Did you have the thoughts? 25 A. Yeah, but never — not to go do it or even 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 7.5 A. (Witness shakes head.) Q. Have you had any surgeries? A. No. Q. Not even like a tonsillectomy or anything? A. No. Q. Okay. And I know we talked a little bit about this. Were you ever — had a loss of consciousness? A. I fainted once, but that's it. Q. Okay. Was that when you had the heat stroke? A. Yeah. Q. Okay. But never knocked unconscious, like that time you were jumped coming home? A. No, I wasn't unconscious, no. Q. Any seizure? A. (Witness shakes head.) Q. Okay. Do you have any chronic medical illnesses like asthma, diabetes? A. No. Q. Any outpatient surgeries? A. No. Q. Have you ever had an abortion? A. No. Q. Ever have any blood transfusions? Page 127 1 try. 2 Q. How far did you get? 3 A. What do you mean? Q. I mean, some people have the thoughts, you know, they'd be -- I'd be better off dead. People '5 have the thoughts of, you know, I would do it this way. And then other people get to the point where 1 3 have thoughts to do it this way, and they actually 9 go out to buy means to do it by. How far along did 10 you get? 11 A. No,; had thoughts but never, you know, like 12 went to go get the bottle of pills and like had them 13 open and almost down to swallow them, never like that. 14 I was like, you know — 15 Q. So you never took any action? 16' A. No, no, never. 17 Q. Did you have a way you would have done it 18 if you were going to? 19 A. No, I don't think so. 20. Q. Just the thought of not being here 21 was what you — 22 A. Yeah. 23 Q. Let me ask you a little bit about your 24 medical history. All right. Are you allergic to 25 anything? Page 129 1 A. (Witness shakes head.) 2 Q. Are you currently taking any medicines? 3 A. (Witness shakes head.) 4 Q. Not even on birth control pills for the — 5 A. (Witness shakes head.) 6 Q. What medicines have you taken in the past? 7 A. One therapist prescribed me Seroquel and Promo. 9 Q. Okay. How long did you take that for? 10 A. Not very long. 11 Q. Do you remember the dose of the Prozac? 12 A. No. 13 Q. Do you remember the dose of the Seroquel? 14 A. I ;mow I used to take one little pink pill in 15 the morning and then two at night, and then go on Prozac 16 in the morning. That's it. Something like that. 17 Q. Okay. 18 A. I didn't really like it. They made me feel 19 weird. 20 Q. How did they melee you feel? 21 A. Like drowsy, like I didn't want to do anything 22 or, you know, lazy. Like I guess Prozac was supposed to 23 make me more happy, and it just made it like, you know, 24 I didn't feel like doing anything because I was too 25 tired or I was... Y.bt-osJ J./ 33 (Pages 126 to 129) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthis hopkins (601-051-976-2934) baeb743b-dae6-4bc145eb46350b255754 EFTA00723714 Page 130 Q. Okay. Were you on both at the same time 2 er did you scan ono and then the other? 3 A. I think I was on both at the same time. I'm 4 not really sure. 5 Q. Okay. So if I put down possibly both, you 6 think that's more correct than... 7 A. Yeah. 8 Q. Seroquel usually makes people tired. 9 Prozac usually actually gives people a little 10 energy. So that's why I was wondering if you were 11 on both at the same time or starting one than the 12 other. 13 A. Yeah, that's why, I don't really know because 14 I know Prozac was for the depression and then the 15 Seroquel was for like my anxiety or whatever. That's 16 what it was supposed to be for. But for like, you know, 17 when I slept and I had my dreams or like when I was, you 18 know, on the street and was like freaking out in a car 19 because I thought we were going to get into an accident 20 or something. 21 Q. How old were you when you were prescribed 22 that? 23 A. Like 14, 15 years old. I was, you know, I 24 didn't really know what it was. My parents didn't 25 either, but I know I didn't like the way they made me 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 132 day, and I only went to her one time. And I think there was another lady. I don't remember, I don't even remember her name. That person — my program had thel7 own therapist. I was court ordered a therapist by my probation. And that was the longest I've ever been at probation, or at therapy only because it was court ordered. So, I've never had, like, therapists long enough to know their name or like know where their office is at, or stuff like that. Q. So you went to -- it sounds like two or three just one time? A. I went, yeah, I went to a couple like one time Q. What age did you start doing that? A. Little bit after my accident. It was when my mom started to try to take me. Q. Did the car accident happen before Epstein or after Epstein? A. I think it was after. Q. Do you remember the name of your court ordered therapist? A. Nibs (phonetic) something. I don't remember her last name. Q. Okay. How long did you see her? A. Like a couple of months, maybe like four or Page 3.31 1 feel. 2 Q. Did the therapist know about Epstein? 3 A. No. I never told anybody. 4 Q. What did the therapist think the 5 depression was related to? 6 A. I don't know because I didn't — I think that 1 was before I went to my program, so it wasn't like they 8 knew that I had a ding problem or something. They just 9 thought, I guess, I was troubled or something. I don't 10 know because I never really talked to them. 11 Q. Okay. Do you remember the name of that 12 therapist? 13 A. No, I remember the place. It's called 14 Multilingual or something. It's on Palm Beach Lakes. 15 Q. Okay. How many times did you go? 16 A. Couple of times. 17 Q. Now, the Prozac and Seroquel, I know you 18 said you didn't talk it long. Aro we talking like a 19 wed, a month? 20 A. Maybe a couple of months. I don't really 21 remember. 22 Q. Okay. And besides Multilingual, apart 23 from the program did you see anyone else? 24 A. There's was a therapist that, before, I don't 25 know -- I know there was that one lady that I seen that 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 133 five months. Q. Did she help? A. She was nice. I was pregnant, so she helped me try to work on, you know, becoming a new mom and whatever. Q. Okay. Had you tried Xanax and things like that before meeting Epstein? A. No. Q. Was there anything — did he have any scars, tattoos, any deformities? A. Who? Q. Epstein. A. I don't really remember. .1 mean, I don't think he had any tattoos or nothing, but like scars or like, you know. Q. Any deformities of any kind? A. I don't remember. I know he didn't have no tattoos, but I don't really remember. Q. Were you ever on any other meds beside the Prom and Seroquel? A. No. Q. I think you had mentioned something about Columbia Hospital. What happened there? A. I was in my program and they took me to court to by to court order me to that program. And with the 34 (Pages 130 to 133) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthia hopkIns (601-051.976-2934) t)5415743b-dae6.4bc1-45eb-16350b255754 EFTA00723715 Page 134 1 program, they don't let you talk to your family tmtil 2 you're on like, you know, past your first and second 3 step or whatever in your AA or NA book or whatever. So 4 you can't talk to your fatuity until you're — youlmow, 5 you're ready to — you know, admit you have a problem or 6 whatever. So I was already in there like almost ■ 7 month, and they were telling me I couldn't talk to my 8 parents about, you know, like them trying to court order 9 me to stay in this program and all this other stuff. 10 So, you know, I, I probably — well, I 11 know I said some things that I probably have 12 shouldn't, but they took it as my trying to like 13 hurt myself or wanting to kill myself and then they 14 sent me to Columbia. 15 Q. What did you say? 16 A. I don't really remember. I was angry. I was, 17 you know, I wanted to go home. I didn't want to be 18 there no more. I wanted to see my family so... 19 Q. How did you do being kind of held against 20 your will there? 21 A. I, I didn't — I refused treatment_ I just 22 didn't do what they asked me during the whole month 23 was there. So, like, I don't know. 24 Q. And, 'apologize, 'think we called this 25 program two different names. Page 136 1 know... 2 Q. So, were you already in legal trouble by 3 the time you did this program or... 4 A. (Witness shakes head) 5 Q. No. Okay. So this wasn't the court 6 ordered program you did when you were — 7 A. No, they — I didn't have, I didn't have a 8 court ordered — They tried to court order my program. 9 They tried to court order my program that I was already 10 going to, yeah. 11 Q. Okay. 12 A. My, but I guess the program or something like, 13 you know, has this thing with the judge or, you know, 14 like that, you know. 15 Q. Now, I apologize. I thought I miss, I 16 thought you said earlier that you were in a program 17 while you were under court order or in detention or 18 something? 19 A. No, no, I wasn't in the program. While I was 20 in the detention center. 21 Q. So any program you're referring to is this 22 one? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And this private one that your — 25 A. Yeah. Page 135 1 A. Yeah, I don't Q. I'm forgetting which one is the right one 3 now. 4 A. I don't remember really. Q. Just -- sorry, go ahead. 6 A. I think it was something skills or something. 7 1 don't really remember. 8 Q. Okay. So you were court ordered to go to 9 this? 10 A. Yeah. 11 Q. Okay. And what was — 12 A. Well, no, they were hying to court order me 13 to go to it. My mom -- the program, sane kind of 14 private program or something. So they told my mom that 15 she had to put some kind of down payment of like 5,000 16 or like 3,000 or something, so I could go to the 17 program, and then pay them every month a certain amount 18 or something. It was like a $20,000 program and... 19 Q. Okay. So, this was something your parents 20 were doing to try to get you help? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Okay. 23 A. But they didn't know like how the program 24 worked or nothing. They were just trying to do 25 something privately instead of going to like, you 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21. 22 23 24 25 Page Q. — parents tried to get you into and you didn't want to stay? A. No. Q. While you were in there, you got angry at them? A. Yeah. Q. You said a few things and then they sent you to Columbia Hospital? A. Yes. Q. Okay. A. They called the police and had them come get tae. Q. And what happened at Columbia? A. I was there for three days and they released me. Q. Okay. Do you know what they diagnosed you with? A. No. Q. Did they -- well, did they give you a &Tana* A. No. I don't know. They talked to my mom. I mean, some child socialist or something or social worker or something like that, yeah, social workers talked to my morn and — but I don't know what they talked about. Q. Okay. 35 (Pages 134 to 137) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Bactionlealty signed by eyntbia hopkins (6Ot-061.978-2934) bacts743b-dae6-4bci-aseb-16360b265764 EFTA00723716 Page 138 1 A. She never — I don't think I went to a 2 therapist with her, like that she paid for after that. 3 Q. And what happened when you were released 4 from the hospital? 5 A. I went home and... 6 Q. Okay. And have you, are you currently in 7 therapy or seeing anyone? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Do you remember what year the program in 10 the Columbia hospitalization was? 11 A. 2006 or 2005 or something. I don't know. I'm 12 not really good on dates. They, they have — 13 Q. You are doing pretty good. 14 A. — paperwork on that program. 15 Q. Okay. 16 A. They have the book or whatever that I gave 17 them. 18 Q. Kind of the workbook? 19 A. Yeah. It was the rules and regulations and 20 how much it was and what the program was called and, you 21 know, like we had to wear certain kind of clothing. We 22 couldn't look out windows or talk to other people. 23 Yeah. There's a big booklet. 24 Q. Was it a faith-based program or... 25 A. No, it was a do what we say or you don't get Page 140 1 was because I was, I went to jail and realized that if I 2 keep getting high I was going back to jail. 3 Q. Going back to jail? 4 A. Yeah. No, it had nothing to do with that 5 program. If it wasn't for my probation officer, you 6 know, and me going to jail, 1probably — and me gettinr 7 pregnant, I probably, I don't know where I would be 8 right now. 9 Q. And when you were in jail, did they have 10 to detox you or do anything special? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Do you see any alternative medicine 13 therapists, counselors, acupuncturists, herbalists? 14 A. No. 15 Q. Okay. Do you take any herbal medications? 16 A. Unh-unh. 17 Q. I'm going to just run a long list of 18 symptoms hem. Just for the sake of time, stop me 19 if any of these are positive. All right? 20 A. All right. 21 Q. Any recent fits, falls, spells, seizures, 22 whirling, twirling, dizziness? 23 A. No. 24 Q. You said you had nausea and vomiting this 25 morning? Page 139 1 to talk to your family until, you know, you finish. 2 Q. Okay. And are you currently seeing 3 anyone? 4 A. A therapist? No. 5 Q. When was the last time you saw a 6 therapist? 7 A. My court ordered one for, for probation. 8 Q. Okay. 9 A. Which was a 2008 — when I was — no 2007, the 10 ending of 2007 when I was pregnant with my son. 11 Q. So, you last saw a therapist in 2007? 12 A. Yeah. 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. I think I might have seen her a little bit in 15 2008, right before he was born, but she -- the went back 16 to school for — to get her Doctor, her Master's in 17 Psychology or whatever. So she stopped being my 18 therapist and they released me from, you know, their 19 care, whatever. They said I was fine. 20 Q. Did the program help you at all? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Okay. And I was under the impression 23 earlier that when you got off drugs it was because 24 of the program. 25 A. No, no. It was because of my probation. It Page 141 1 A. Yeah. 2 Q. Any problems with your ears, ringing in 3 your ears, loss of hearing in your ears, loss of 4 high pitched sounds, low pitched sounds, ruptures in 5 the ear, tympanic membrane or eardrum, bleeding from 6 your ears. Any problems with your eyes, blurted 7 vision, double vision, glaucoma, loss of sight, 8 tearing, bleeding? Any problems with your nose, 9 runny nose, drippy nose, bloody rose, nasal polyps. 10 deviated septum, sinus infections? Any problems 11 with your lips, gum, tongue or teeth? Any trouble 12 swallowing? 13 A. Thrive, I think I need surgery and it was from 14 my mouth from a tooth that was, had a really bad cavity 15 and a couple of days ago it actually — the tooth fell 16 out and there's a big hole. And where the tooth is 17 supposed to be, and it's like an open root, and like 18 ifs, ifs really nasty. It hurts really bad, and I get 19 like food, or it does hurt and it hurts really bad. I 20 think I need surgery for them like to cut the gum open 21 and get the tooth from inside, yeah. 22 Q. I don't know a lot about dental surgery, 23 but I, yeah -- 2 4 A. Because it's not — you can't see the tooth 25 anymore. It's ►ike deep in my gums and it's bad. ar41.0,..112.1.a.aliliqoateasaer. 36 (Pages 138 to 141) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthla hopkina (601-051476-2934) blicb743b-dae6-4bc1-a5ob.16350b255754 EFTA00723717 Page 142 Page 144 Q. And it's painful? 2 A. Yeah. 3 Q. Thank you. That's definitely one to let 4 me know. 5 A. But other than that, l mean, I think the 6 smoking builds up a lot of mucus in my throat, but, you 7 know, that's it. And I don't, like, have a hard time 8 swallowing because like my tongue hasn't swelled up or 9 nothing. 10 Q. Okay. Any problems with hiatal hernias, 11 reflux, food intolerance? Any problems or feel like 12 you got little lymph nodes or golf balls in your 13 neck, trouble with — 14 A. No. 15 Q. Any problems with your heart, murmurs, 16 rubs, gallops — 17 A. No. 18 Q. — heart attacks, congestive heart 19 failures, told you need a valve replacement, had a 20 murmur? Any problems with your lungs, pneumonia, 21 bronchitis? 22 A. No. 23 Q. Any issues with your stomach, besides what 24 we have already discussed? 25 A. No. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 some of the hormones and things like that. A. I don't think so. Q. And usually people will have like loss of eyesight or start putting on a lot of weight or they will have other issues that could be a sign of pituitary problems. A. No. Q. Okay. Any problems with your blood. You said you were anemic when you were pregnant? A. Yeah. Q. But as far as you know right now are you anemic? A. I don't, I don't, I don't know. I get cold really quick. Like, I could be outside and like have a jacket on and shivering. Q. Any issues with night sweats? A. No. I mean, my husband says I'm hot when I sleep. Like my body is hot, but I don't sweat. It's just, I'm, I guess I'm hot or... Q. But you don't wake up and the sheets are soaked? A. No. In a puddle of sweat, no, no. Q. I'm just trying to remember where I finished off. And I hate to, hate to bounce around with symptoms. Any neurologic problems, motor Page 143 1 Q. Okay. My problems with your GI system, 2 diarrhea, constipation? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Any problems with your back, scoliosis, or 5 back issues? 6 A. I had back problems picking up my, you know, 7 my son or being like knocked down from like, you know, 8 with him. But other than that, he is like 40 pounds, 35 9 pounds. So he's pretty heavy, you know. It's a strain '10 on my back for, to pick him up. 11 Q. I just realized, I don't think I asked 12 your son's name? 13 A. His name is 14 Q. Any problems with your kidneys? 15 A. No. 16 Q. Any issues with urination, blood in the 17 urine? 18 A. No. 19 Q. Any problems with your reproductive 20 organs, any issues with muscles, joints, tendons? 21 A. Not at all. 22 Q. Any issues with your pituitary, thyroid, 23 adrenal gland? 24 A. Pituitary, what's that mean? 25 Q. It's a gland up in your head that controls Page 145 1 problems, trouble with coordination, moving your 2 hands? 3 A. No, no. 4 Q. Okay. Anything I haven't asked you that 5 you think I need to know or forgot to ask? 6 A. No. 7 Q. All right. Okay. How did do with the 8 birth of your son? 9 A. He — it was all right. I mean, it was hard. 10 I, there wasn't a, I didn't have a C-section. I had him 11 vaginally. I didn't rip or tear. 12 Q. Good. 13 A. Or they didn't have to cut me or nothing. 14 They had to use like a plunger looking thing to -- 15 Q. To suction? 16 A. Suction him. Yeah, because he got stuck in my 17 pelvis bone -- 18 Q. Okay. 19 A. — and his heartbeat went, his heart rate went 20 down, and so they had to like suck him out or like pull 21 him out. 22 Q. Okay. 23 A. Oh, he had a bowel movement in my stomach. So 24 it was like green and gross, and 1 had to like suck it 25 all out of his lungs or his throat or whatever because I hadriandaseAW 37 (Pages 142 to 145) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthia hookIns (601.051-976.2934) bikb743b-doe4-4bc145eb463606266754 EFTA00723718 Page 146 Page I 1 think — 2 Q. Right 3 A. he got it in his mouth or something. 4 Q. Meconium or something they call it? 5 A. I don't know. He didn't have no problems 6 afterwards. Like he didn't have to stay in the hospital 7 longer or nothing. 8 Q. Okay. How are you doing with bonding with 9 him? 10 A. It's great. Ifs fine. 11 Q. Okay. You smiled a little bit when I said 12 that so -- 13 A. Yeah. We have fun. 14 Q. Good. I know sometimes after people have 15 a child they can have what they call postpartum 16 depression. Did you have any issues with that — 17 A. No. 18 Q. — or anything more significant than the 19 baby blues or... 20 A. No. 21 Q. Was there any effect on your mood with the 22 pregnancy? 23 A. During the pregnancya-- 24 Q. During or after. 25 A. I was sick the whole time, so I was like 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. — a few years after. You're not less than or not dramatically more than? A. No, no. I bounced right back. Q. Okay. When we were talking earlier, you used the phrase depression. I was just wondering if you could tell me what depression means for you and — A. What it means to me? Q. Uh-huh. A. I would say, hire, stuck in a rut, like in a sad state of mind. Like that you don't want to do anything or live life or, you know, be around friends or family or whatever, you know. Do anything. I mean depressed like. Q. Okay. So stuck in a rut, sad state of mind. How long do you think you felt that way for? A. A while. I mean before, before I met Aaron, I, I don't know, I guess you could say I didn't have — you know, like if I had a boyfriend, if I got one, it didn't really last tomb actually, you know, like even be an actual couple. So I think I didn't have really good things with guys. They were just like, you know. I didn't have good relationships with men or, you know, Iliad all right with friends but like, I didn't get along with too many girls because — Page 147 1 irritable and like, you know, not very nice you could 2 say because I was big and fat and, you know, sick, so 3 Q. Okay. A. — but I don't think normal or like 5 abnormal or nothing. 6 Q. Okay. What was your weight before your pregnancy? a A. Same. I was like 95 pounds or something. 9 Q. Okay. And during the pregnancy? 10 A. I was 120, 25, something like that 120 I 11 think. 12 Q. Okay. 13 A. So, I gained like 25 pounds. 14 Q. And then what are you doing now? 15 A. Nothing. 1 don't exercise or nothing. I have 16 been the same weight since. 17 Q. So you're back to 95? 18 A. Yeah, about 19 Q. Okay. 20 A. It's been a while since I have been on a 21 scale. 22. Q. Okay. I guess what Pm asking is kind of 23 the weight you were before is kind of what you've 24 gone back to — 25 A. Yeah, yeah. Page 149 1 DR. HALL: We probably need to change the 2 tape. Come in. 3 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Sony for the 4 interruption. I just need to change the tape. 5 DR. HALL: Do you want to take a break 6 because- 7 JANE DOE NO.6: No, just let it — 8 (Off the video record from 4:22 p.m to 9 4:24 p.m.) 10 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: You're all set, Doctor. 11 DR. HALL: Okay. Thank you. 12 JANE DOE NO.6: But I had some troubles 13 with lite, you know, I don't know, guys would 14 like tell me that, you know, they like me or 15 whatever. And then I find out they have like 16 some girlfriend or somebody they're talking to, 17 and l have a problem with, you know, with a 18 girl. 19 I think that's what most of what my fights 20 were about was like, you know. 21 DR. HALL: Okay. 22 JANE DOE NO.6: Me trying to, like,1 23 guess, find that person to share something 24 with. I guess that's what I was looking for 25 because I didn't -- 1& 38 (Pages 146 to 149) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthie hopkins (601.061476.2934) beeb7431)-dasiAbc1-aSeb-16350b255764 EFTA00723719 Page 150 1 BY DR. HALL: 2 Q. Okay. So you were looking for somebody 3 and you thought you had a few leads — 4 A. Yeah. 5 Q. And then fad out they had girlfriends or 6 other friends? 7 A. Yeah. I didn't really have too great a, you 8 know, relationships with guys. That's why I never 9 really did anything with them is because, you know, it 10 was like, you could never really trust them, trust what 11 they would say or what would happen or, you know. 12 Q. And how do you and Aaron get along with 13 all that? 14 A. Now we're a lot better. I mean, Aaron is like 15 my best Mend. Like I can tell him anything and we 16 hang out all the tint. Say, like we have friends that 17 like, you know, I hang out with the guy's girlfriend and 18 he hangs out with the guy or whatever. And then they 19 have their kids or whatever and they hang out with our 20 kids. 21. But you know, it's more like a family, you 22 know, like a play date kind of thing, you know. Me 23 and Aaron are more like our own friends. Like, you 24 know, we hang out with each other and, you know, I 25 don't — I've never had that problem with him lying 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 152 it's not that we don't love each other. its that, you know, like I just, I feel like sex has gotten lace, you know, like, it becomes more of like, you know, hey, let's; do you want to do it or what? Or you know, like instead of being like a spontaneous type of, you know — I don't know. It's not that I don't love him or anything, or that I'm looking for something else. It's just like I'm not that interested in it, you know. Like I had a long day and like, I'm just, you know, Pm tired. I don't, you know, feel like doing it You know. Q. When you are intimate, are you able to enjoy it — A. Yeah. Q. — or just kind of — A. No, l can. There's times, yeah, I can enjoy it Q. Does he enjoy it? A. Yeah. Q. If everything was going perfect and your mood was good and you weren't too tired from the little one and things like that, how many times a week would you like to be intimate with your husband? A. Probably every night if I could, if I could 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 151 to me or, you know, like and he will always take care of me, me and my son, so, you know. He's a great dad. Q. Any concerns that he may be having affairs A. No, no, never. Q. Strange question, but do you love him? A. Yes, very much. Q. Does he love you? A. I believe so, yeah. Q. I don't mean to get too personal here, but how often are the two of you physically intimate? A. I guess, I'm not lice that much into sex, you would say. Like twice maybe three times a week if that, if that's on a good week. Q. Okay. A. I guess that's why I don't have no fetishes or like experience like, you know, all that. I don't even know like, what a fetish or a dildo would be because, you know, I'm kind of like, you know, like an old married couple, like, you know, let's get this over with. Letter, Letterman is going to start later. Let's burry up. We've got to get some ice cream and stuff. You know, like, you know, can I watch TV while we're doing this. You know, like. I don't know if it's like, Page 153 1 get around to it, if I don't fall asleep on hint 1 2 don't know, if I had my own, like if I had a job and I 3 don't think we would even, you know, probably do it, if 4 I didn't, you know, if I wasn't able to put Al to 5 sleep and get dinner ready. Because, you know I have to 6 do all that when I got home. 7 So, you 'mow, like I guess it's better 8 than it could be, because, you know, it could be 9 worse. We could not see each other at all and like 10 work all the time and only see each other at night 11 and fall asleep, you know, together. 12 Q. Now, working on road crews, I know they 13 sometimes do nighttime construction. Is he on a day 14 shift or a night shift? 15 A. He's on a day shift. 16 Q. Day shift. When do you think you had 17 your, kind of, first episode of depression? 13 A. I don't know. Around 13. 19 Q. Okay. How do you place that? What's your 20 marker for that? 21 A. I,1 started getting high when I was 13. 22 Q. Okay. 23 A. I think that's when, like, I started to 24 change, or whatever. 25 Q. Okay. And did you have like discrete 39 (Pages 150 to 153) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. lasetronleMy signed by cynthb hopldna (601-051476-2934) bileb743kodae6-4bc1.05ob46350b265764 EFTA00723720 Page 154 1 periods, or would you have times where you felt 2 normal? 3 A. I guess there's times I felt normal. 4 Q. Okay. How long would the bad periods last 5 for? 6 A. In the beginning it was, you 'mow, not that 7 long, but then they started getting, you know, more 8 frequent. And like, you know, I become deeper in a rut 9 that like, you know, deeper stuck that I couldn't pull 10 myself out. 11 Q. Okay. Would they last longer than a week? 12 A. After — not at first, but after a while. 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. They were, they lasted a while. 15 Q. When did this start lasting longer than a 16 week? 17 A. Wheal, I first started trying thugs. 18 Q. So, it sounds like the drugs really 19 affected your mood? 20 A. Yeah. I don't know if k was drugs that 21 affected it or the drugs that I was taking drugs to try 22 to cover up whatever I was feeling, and [just got 23 myself more into a, you know -- I don't know. 24 Q. Okay. How old were you when it was 25 lasting like two weeks? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 156 A. When I was getting high, I didn't really eat that much, but I think that was just because of the drugs, not because I didn't want to eat. Q. What's the lightest weight you ever got to? A. Huh? Q. What was the lightest weight you got to? A. Like 80 pounds. Q. Okay. And you weren't trying to lose weight, and this wasn't like an eating disorder or behavior -- A. No. Q. -- where I was intentionally restricting how much I ate or trying to exercise more — A. No. — or throwing up or taking laxatives A. No, no. Q. Feelings like your thoughts were going slower than usual or anybody ever comment you were talking less than usual or slower than usual? A. No. I know my parents would complain about my, my behavior and, you know, my school work or coming in late. They didn't really catch onto me getting high at first It took them a little bit. Page 155 A. When I was like 14. I don't know. 2 Q. Okay. When you were in a rut or a bad 3 mood, how was your sleep? 4 A. I don't know. Not well,Iguess. But, I 5 mean, if I was messed up. I could probably sleep through 6 the whole night. 7 Q. Okay. But if you weren't taking anything? 8 A. No, I probably couldn't fall asleep. 9 Q. Okay. Were you enjoying anything or 10 having anything that was like fun for you? 11 A. (Witness shakes head.) 12 Q. Were you feeling guilty about anything or 13 having any feelings of worthlessness? 14 A. I don't know. I guess worthlessness. 15 Q. How was your energy? 16 A. I didn't have much. 17 Q. Okay. How's your concentration? 18 A. I guess that's where you could say like my 19 school work started to go down. You know. I don't 20 know. 21 Q. Anybody ever get concerned you had 22 Attention Deficit Disorder? 23 A. No, nobody ever mentioned it. 24 Q. Any changes in appetite or significant 25 weight gains or weight loss? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 157 Q. Okay. How is your relationship with your brit? A. We don't have a relationship. Q. Okay. Even when you were younger the two of you didn't get along or... A. No. Q. Okay. Did he have similar issues or... A. No, he is a, more like gothic and kind of like lost, you could say. I'm not... Q. Okay. Listens to a lot of Cure albums? A. Huh? Q. Listens to a lot of Cure albums? A. I don't know what he listens to. Its just, you bow. I don't listen to it. Q. Okay. What type of music do you like? A. I like punk rock and RMS. I like — I don't really like the, you could call it, jungle jams, like these rappers talking about all these chicks booties and all these guns they have and all this — Q. You do nice that or — A. No. Q. — you don't like that? Okay. 'A. No, I don't, I don't like that at all. No, I don't. Q. Okay. 40 (Pages 154 to 157) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601-061.976.2934) 484:6743b.dae6-4bel-a5ob-f6350b255764 EFTA00723721 Page 158 Page 160 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21. 22 23 24 25 A. I lie more Q. So, you don't like gangster rap? A. No, no, none of that. I like Old -- like Old Sublime and Nirvana and like — Q. Alternative? A. Yeah, like, you know. Q. Okay. And during this period of time when you weren't sleeping well and energy was low, you know, school work was going downhill, were you having suicidal thoughts? A. Maybe. I don't really know. I don't want to say, you know,1 did when I didn't. I don't really know. That was a long time ago. Q. How are you feeling right now? A. I'm anxious. I want to go home. I'm like, I have such a headache from crying, ifs not even funny. I just really need to go. Q Okay. A. It's been a while. I'm surprised that I haven't, you know, been complaining to leave all day, Q. Thank you. I appreciate that. I know this is a long day. A. Yeah. Q. And we're coming into the home stretch 1 A. Yeah, I know, but I just, you knovv Q. There's cookies and stuff out that. 3 A. Yeah, but I just — yeah, I just didn't want 4 to throw up is my problem. 5 Q. I do appreciate that, so... 6 A. You know, I didn't want to lose my lunch. 7 Q. Toss your cookies. Okay. 8 A. Yeah. That was my big issue. 9 Q. So, over the last month, how has your 10 sleep been? 11 A. It's good. 12 Q. How much are you getting a night? 13 A. Fall sleep around like 9:00 or 10:00. Wake up 14 like 7:00 or 8:00. I mean, illcould sleep longer, l 15 would. It's not that Pm depressed. I just like to 16 sleep. 17 Q. And do you enjoy doing things? 18 A. Yeah. 19 Q. What, what do you like to do? 20 A. Me and my son, he has a little car that we 21 take him on, like a paddle wheels car. We drive around 22 in that. He has this little push car that I push him 23 around in and go to the park. He loves watching Blues 24 Clues, so we watch a lot of Blues Clues and sing. You 25 know — Page 159 1 so... over the last month, two months, how have you 2 been doing? 3 A. Everything is all right. 4 Q. Doing all right? 5 A. Trying to get ready for the holidays, you 6 know, Santa is coming, Christi/his, you know. 7 Q. Okay. You just seem kind of a low energy 8 right now. 9 A. Well - 10 Q. And I don't know if Mars just because of 11 the situation — 12 A. Yeah 13 Q. bad morning or... 14 A. I was thinking, because I have been here all 15 day and Pm kind of tired. 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. You 'mow, I haven't had much to do, so it's 18 like... 19 Q. So, what I'm seeing now isn't kind of how 20 you've been doing for the last week or two? 21 A. No, no, not -- 22 Q. Okay. 23 A. I haven't eaten all day. 24 Q. Now, I have tried to feed you, and we've 25 offered you breaks. Page 161 1 Q. Any issues with guilt or... 2 A. Huh? 3 Q. Any issues with feeling guilty about 4 anything or self-worth over the last month? 5 A. No. 6 Q. Okay. In general 7 doing? 8 A. It's good. I have enough energy to run around 9 and chase him all day, and then, you know, once Pm able 10 to sit down though, I don't get back up. You know, once 11 Pm relaxed 12 Q. Once you're down, you're down? 13 A. Yeah. 14 Q. How is your concentration doing right now? 15 I mean, not today but for the last month. 16 A. Yeah, ifs good. 17 Q. So, you're like able to read a newspaper 18 article and follow it or do you go back and have to 19 re-read? 20 A. I don't really read the newspapers. I started 21 reading the Twilight book, you know, Twilight. They 22 just came out with the movie. So, yeah, I started, 23 after I seen the second movie Saturday, I started with 24 the book. So, l mean, I'm doing all right with it. I 25 mean, there is some-- Pm still at a seventh grade how is your energy level 41 (Pages 158 to 161) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EJectronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601.051.976.2934) bah743b-dae6-4bc1-aSob-16350b265754 EFTA00723722 Page 162 1 level, so sometimes l have to go back and read 2 sometimes, you know, what I just read so I can 3 understand the word that I just said or, you know, 4 because, I mean, some words I kind of get caught up, 5 yeah. Like the question, and there's a couple of those 6 that are blank because like seldom or something, I don't 7 know what that word means. 8 Q. Okay. 9 A. So I wasn't Ifire, and l didn't want to say I 10 was something, but it meant that I wasn't, or you know 11 how that — I didn't know. 12 Q. Okay. 13 A. So, I get my little difficulties in my words 14 but, you know, I will go back and leave the sentence 15 open and leave that one blank and try to figure out what 16 that little thing is. 17 Q. How has your appetite been except for 18 today? 19 A. Ifs good. I love to cook. I love different 20 foods and trying different stuff and stuff. 21 Q. So, I know this is a hypothetical, but 22 tomorrow do you think you're going to have something 23 to eat? 24 A. Yeah. 25 Q. Or have dinner later tonight? Page 164 1 A. No. 2 Q. Did you ever have any issues where you 3 find yourself going off and buying more than you 4 needed or buying silly, useless things or — S A. I do that now. I like go to the grocery store 6 and say I'm going to spend S50 and spend 100. You know, 7 I mean, lido that most places. I don't think its like 8 abnormal like I have got some kind of - 9 Q. So, it's not like a pattern where you -- 10 A. No, no. 11 Q. -- just kind of, I'll need a bottle, but 12 Ili buy a three-some because they were on special? 13 A. Yeah, yeah, but you know, I know I wasn't 14 supposed to spend that much, but they were on sale, so 15 some day we might use them. 16 Q. Okay. But ifs not like I went out and 17 bought six pairs of shoes? 18 A. Yeah, no, no, I don't like have no kind of 19 like shopping problem. 20 Q. And ever have trouble keeping track of 21 your thoughts or just keep bouncing from one idea to 22 the other? 23 A. No. I have trouble keeping track of where I 24 put stuff. 25 Q. Why do you think that is? Page 163 1 A. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If I, I'm cooking, so yeah, 2 we'll be having dinner. 3 Q. How is the speed of your thoughts? Are 4 they going too fast, too slow? 5 A. No. 6 Q. You're talking and moving okay? 7 A. Yeah. 8 Q. Have any suicidal thoughts? 9 A. No. I think I'm over that part of my life. 10 Q. Good. Have you ever had the opposite of a 11 depression, where you felt really, really good, 12 maybe too good? 13 A. No, I don't think so. I don't think I was 14 overly excited about — 15 Q. Any periods where you talked faster than 16 usual or people commented that you seemed to be 17 thinking faster or talking faster or moving faster? 18 A. No. 19 Q. Fresh weekend, started a lot of projects, 20 but it was hard to stick with just one and you kind 21 of bounced around? 22 A. No. 23 Q. Any periods of your life wbem you were 24 hypersexual or hyper-religious; one sense for a 25 woman and one for a guy or — Page 165 1 A. I don't know because I'm always into something 2 else, like — I forget where I put my phone because I 3 have to go over here and clean him up because he just 4 finished eating, or late at night where I put my keys 5 because I just came in the house and dropped them 6 somewhere and had to go out again, or you know. 7 Q. Have you ever had any periods where you 8 thought people could read your mind? 9 A. No. 10 Q. Had special powers? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Okay. lust asking. Where people could 13 literally physically put thoughts into your head or 14 take thoughts out of your head? 15 A. No, no, no. 16 Q. Ever see anything or hear anything that 17 other people haven't seen or heard? 18 A. No. 19 Q. Ever been concerned that somebody was out 20 to get you or was going to hurt you? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Do you have any patterns or rituals that 23 you do? 24 A. No. 25 Q. Do you ever get things stuck in your head 42 (Pages 162 to 165) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynlhia hopkIns (13014614713-2934) bieb743b-dae8-4bc1-a5eb46360b2155754 EFTA00723723 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 166 like tapping or counting or — A. No. Q. Do you have any phobias? A. What do you mean like phobias? Q. An irrational fear, something you're afraid of even though you know you probably shouldn't be. A. I'm afraid of bugs. I'm afraid of natural disasters. Pm afraid of the dark. I'm afraid of woody areas. Q. Why is that? A. I don't know, because I just think somebody is going to pop out, or I don't know. I don't know. It's dark. It's scary. It's, you know it's — Q. At nighttime going through the woods. A. Yeah. Q. Okay. Is this something you've always kind of had or -- A. Yeah. Q. -- recent things? A. No, it's something I've always had. Like I have to turn on the lights before I walk into a room or something and make sure nobody is inside, whenever. Q. Do you ever get a. silly thought or a disturbing thought in your head that you can't get 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 168 Q. Okay. And you don't think you have had an experience like that? A. No, no. While we're driving, I always, like if I feel like, you know, like the car next to us is getting too close, or you know, I always either get onto the lane that, the next lane that I can get into, or you know, l just Aaron to slow down, or you know. Q. Okay. So, you pay attention to what's going on around you on the road? A. Yeah, yeah. Q. Do you think you do that more than other people? A. Yeah. IthinIc I'm kind of a worrywart. I, I we were talking about going on vacation to go see -- well, not really a vacation. My great aunt is like 80 and she lives in New Jersey and we're thinking about taking my son up there. But I have like this worry that if something happened, it's too cold, you know, or we're somewhere, you know, where we, we don't live or we don't know, none of our medical papers, no, if he gets sick we're going to have to — Q. Yeah, it's a long flight up there? A. Yeah. It's a drive. Q. Or a long time on the interstate? A. Yeah. That's another thing, but,1 mean, Page 167 1 rid of? 2 A. No. 3 Q. We were talking a little bit about 4 anxiety. You said you're kind of nervous at times 5 and today is a nervous day. Have you ever had a 6 panic attack? 7 A- No. 8 Q. Okay. Do you know what I mean when I say 9 panic attack? 10 A. Like loss of breath or like, you feel like, 11 you know, you're stuck, or you can't like kind of 12 claustrophobic kind of like, you know. 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. I don't know. 15 Q. I mean, usually folks will say I feel like 16 I'm going to die, fm feeling overwhelmed, my heart 17 is racing. 18 A. Yeah, like you can't breath. 19 Q. I'm having trouble breathing, you — 20 A. You feel like there is something on your 21 chest, you know, you're like in a small area, like you 22 can't get out 23 Q. Okay. Not always associated with 24 claustrophobia, but some people can feel that. 25 A. (Witness nods head. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 169 like, I get like worries about like what could happen, like you know. I don't let him play out in the street because what could happen, you know, or I don't know. Q. Okay. And what do you mean, play out in streets? What are some of the thoughts in which think could happen? A. A car could come by. He could be like, we Id be playing in the driveway or in the front yard, he could run in the street. Or I don't, we don't no where near the street. It's always the backyard a fielded area because I don't want him nowhere near street. Because he has this thing of running away from me. And like if the door opens, he runs for the door. It's like, he sees somebody or he sees something, he runs for it. He don't walk. He runs. Terries me sometimes when he is like, you know, runs for the door or something. People leave the front door open and there are stairs there and he, like could fall down and I get really scared about that cou and play or our the you But, I don't know if I could say -- I rry more than my husband does. I'm like, you ve, I'm just worried. I mean, I'm his mom. I'm posed to worry, I guess. But, you know, little PROSE COURT ENc n y s gns y eyn hopkins (601-051.976.2934) 43 (Pages 166 to 169) REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 3IIIIIIIIIIII b5ob74 EFTA00723724 Page 170 1 stuff, l don't !mow, like -- 2 Q. Do you worry about anything that involves 3 Mr. Epstein? 4 A. No. I mean, there was, the time there was a 5 private investigator coming to, around my old job or 6 whatever, but that was the only time I ever had that 7 problem. 8 Q. Okay. 9 A. I was just afraid that people were going to 10 find out and my parents were going to know, and I'm 11 like - 12 Q. And this was before they had found out? 13 A. No. This was afterwards. This was like a 14 month ago. It was like in August or something, yeah, 15 September. I don't know. It was recently that there 16 was a, a couple months ago a private investigator came 17 to my old job looking. 18 Q. At the insurance agency? 19 A. Yeah. 20 Q. Okay. But you weren't working there at 21 the time? 22 A. No, I was not working there at the time. 23 Q. Okay. Gotcha. Okay. And at the time you 24 said you were worried about your folks finding 04 25 things like that. Have you ever had any periods of Page 172 1 with anything, honestly, whether it has to do with my 2 parents or my drug use or what happened to me or you 3 know, I don't -- if i had that figured out, I probably 4 wouldn't be here. 5 Q. Where would you be? 6 A. I don't know, if lived in some perfect place 7 on some sandy beach, and, you know ifl had like the, 8 you know, the answer to all my problems that I've had, I 9 probably wouldn't be here. Do you know what I'm saying? 10 I mean, I don't, I don't know. 11 Q. Okay. Do you think you use drugs because 12 of Mr. Epstein? 13 A. I think, yeah, it might have a possibility. 14 les possible. 15 Q. Do you startle easily? 16 A. Hum? 17 Q. Do you startle easily? 18 A. Like get scared? 19 Q. Yeah, jumpy? 20 A. Yeah, sort of, like come out of nowhere, like, 21 you know. 22 Q. Well, more than the average person? 23 A. No. I mean — 24 Q. And do you have periods where your heart 25 races or you have trouble catching your breath or... Page 171 1 time where you felt like you were back at the house 2 or re-living the experience? 3 A. When I talk about it, it makes me feel like 4 that weird same, like, you know, still kind of feeling. But I don't feel like I'm there again or like, I will be 6 or something. I just feel like stuff, like I don't - 7 you know. 8 Q. Did you have dreams after seeing 9 Mr. Epstein? 10 A. Huh? 11 Q. Did you have bad dreams atter seeing 12 Mr. Epstein? 13 A. No, I don't think so, no. I don't !mow. 1 14 was — I don't remember, a while ago. 15 Q. Okay. 16 A. I don't really remember much about that 17 incident, because that's where I was, or what was around 18 or you know. 19 Q. Okay. Do you think you have a mental 20 illness related to Mr. Epstein? 21 A. No. 22 Q. I'm sorry, that was no? 23 A. I dein know, no. 24 Q. No. Okay. 25 A. I don't know what any of my past has to do Page 173 1 A. Yeah, I could I have times but I mean, like I 2 went to jury duty August and I felt like my chest was 3 going to come, or Ifice, you know, my heart was going to 4 come out of my chest. But I don't know if it was 5 because, I was, you know, in a government building. I 6 don't know. 7 Like I guess nervous around police 8 officers only because, you know, like, my violation 9 and all, you know. The law, it's the trouble with, 10 you know, the law I had in the past, you know, so I 11 get kind of nervous. But which I was there for jury 12 duty. It's not like I was there for my own court, 13 or, you know, my own ticket — 14 Q. Right. 15 A. -- but I was nervous. 16 Q. You were still nervous? 17 A. Yeah,1 was still —I thought my heart was 18 going to come out of my chest. 19 Q. I keep writing on the back of the paper so 20 I can flip through some of these now. 21 Okay. So, on a scale from one to ten, 22 with one being the most depressed you've ever been, 23 five being normal, ten being the best you ever felt, 24 too good, over the past month where would you say 25 you fall? 44 (Pages 170 to 173) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthia hopldns (801-051478-2934) belcb743b-dae6-4bc1-a5ob-f6360b255754 EFTA00723725 Page 174 1 A. Like a seven. 2 Q. Seven. Okay. And during those periods of 3 time where your felt down and depressed, where do 4 you think you fell? 5 A. Like a three, maybe a two. I don't know. 6 Q. Okay. And in terms of anxiety, different 7 scale here. So one being absolutely no anxiety. 8 Ten being the worst anxiety you can possibly 9 imagine. Over the past month where would you say 10 you've fallen? 11 A. Like a five. So, because since I got my 12 license, I'm becoming like more, you know, trying to — 13 my anxiety is only more when I drive or when, you know, 14 in the passenger seat of a car. It's more of when I get 15 like really, you know, anxious. You know, like, I feel 16 like something is going to happen. 17 Q. Okay. And today how has your anxiety 18 been? 19 A. Just nervous because! was on my way here. 20 That's it 21 Q Okay. And on a one to ten scale or just 22 today backward? 23 A. Like an eight or a nine. 24 Q. Eight or nine. 25 A. Because I thought I was going to, you know. Page 176 1 A. Because that's the name I was supposed to look 2 for when I came down Australian. 3 Q. Okay. I think there's a Paychex sign on 4 the side of the building. 5 A. Yeah. 6 Q. But the actual name is like One Centerlake 7 Center something. 8 A. I know I seen the Paychex sign on the side of 9 the building or something like that. 10 Q. Okay. Yeah. There is one on the side. 11 So, that's right. Can you tell me today's date? 12 A. November 23rd, 2009. 13 Q. Okay. Day of the week? 14 A. It is Monday. 15 Q. Okay. Season? 16 A. It's fall. 17 Q. All right. Can you remember three words 18 for we, penny, dog, and blue? 19 A. Penny, dog, and blue. 20 Q. Ulhhuh. Remember those. I will ask you 21 for them again later. All right. Next one is a bit 22 harder. A lot of people have trouble with it. Just 23 give it your best shot. 24 Can you count backwards from 100 please by 25 sevens? Page 175 1 The whole way here until Belvedere and Australian, I was 1 2 fine. And then I hit Australian. And I was like, ta, 2 3 ta, ta, ta. All you could hear was my foot hitting the 3 4 pedal. You know. 4 5 Q. Okay. Let me grab something here. I'm 5 6 going to ask you some questions or — some of them 6 7 are easy. Some of them are a little harder. Just 7 8 give them your best shot. I may have misplaced my 8 9 nice little sheet of paper. Okay. Do this the old 9 10 fashioned way. 10 11 Can you tell me where you're at? 11 12 A. Where? 12 13 Q. Where you're located. 13 14 A. 250 South Australian Avenue. 14 15 Q. Okay. City and state? 15 16 A. West Palm, Florida. 16 17 Q. Okay. Do you know the county? 17 18 A. Palm Beach. 18 19 Q. Okay. And do you know what floor of the 19 20 building you're in? 20 21 A. Fifteen. 21 22 Q. Okay. Do you know the name of the 22 23 building? 23 24 A. Paychex or something like that. 24 25 Q. Yeah. Why do you say that? 25 Page 1 A. No. Q. Please try. A. From 100? Q. Uh-huh. A. 93. Q. Okay. A. SC Q. Okay. A 79. Q. Okay. A. 72. Q. All right A. 65. Q. Thank you. That's good. See people can do it They always are worried they won't be able to. Can you spell the word world for me? A. World? Q. Uh-huh? A. W-o-r-1-d. Q. Can you spell that backwards? A. D-1-r-o-w, I think. Q. Uh-huh. This is a — A. Pen. Q. These are - A. Glasses 45 (Pages 174 to 177) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthia hot ins (601.061.970-2934) bacb743b-daa6-4bc1-aSeb-16360b266764 EFTA00723726 Page 178 1 Q. All right. Can you repeat the following 2 phrase, please: No ifs, and's, or but's? 3 A. No ifs, and's or but's. 4 Q. Good. Can you take this piece of paper in 5 Your right hand, fold it in half and set it on the 6 floor next to you on your left? Thank you. 7 Do you remember those three words? 8 A. Penny, dog, and blue. 9 Q. Uh-huh. Can you read this to yourself and 10 do as it says? Thank you. 11 I'm not an artist. I don't expect you to 12 be either, but can you copy that design for me? 13 A. Ifs a little higher. Something like that 14 Q. Thank you. Can you write a sentence for 15 me, please. Anything you like. 16 I'm ready to go home. 17 A. Yeah. 18 Q. Okay. How is an apple and an orange 19 similar? 20 A. They are both fruits. 21 Q. A boat and a bicycle? 22 A. A boat and a bicycle? They both move. 23 Q. Okay. A mouse and a tree? 24 A. A mouse and a tree? 25 Q. 1.1h-huh? Page 180 1 numbers? How about nine, three, six, five, one? 2 A. Nine, three, six, five, one. 3 Q. 'Okay. 4 A. One, five, let's see, those numbers in the 5 beginning, in the middle kind of. Three and nine, 6 mean, I don't 7 Q. Okay. 8 A. I don't remember. Those little numbers kind 9 of get me. 10 Q. Get a little confused in your head. 11 A. Yeah. 12 Q. Okay. Why do we refrigerate food? 13 A. Why do we refrigerate? 14 Q. Uh-huh. 15 A. So it'don't go bad. 16 Q. Okay. What would you do if you found a 17 cell phone just lying in the street? 18 A. Fin(' the number and try to return it. 19 Q. Okay. Can you tell me, can you name the 20 presidents starting at the recent one and going 21 backwards? 22 A. BarackObama. 23 Q. Okay. 24 A. George Bush. 25 Q. Okay. Page 179 A. Cat. 2 Q. First time I've gotten that answer. 3 A. I don't even think a mouse and a tree would 4 even — Q. — be similar? Okay. A. The only similarity is a cat. Q. What's the expression people who live in 8 glass houses shouldn't throw stones mean? 9 A. That people with their own problems shouldn't 10 be talking about others. 11 Q. Okay. MI right. Fm going give you a 12 couple of mutters here. I'm going give them to you 13 to forward. 'would like you to repeat them and 14 then give them back to me backwards. Okay. Six, 15 eight, five, two, seven. 16 A. Six, eight, five, two, seven. 17 Q. Uh-huh. 18 A. Seven, five, two, six. No. It was seven, 19 five, two, eight, six, right? 20 Q. Close I think you got the five and the two 21 mixed up. 22 A. Oh, okay. 23 Q. As I said, some, it's okay to miss a few 24 of these. And some of these arc a little harder 25 than others. Do you want to by a second set of 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 h'dye I. H A. Bill Clinton. Q. Okay. A. Wasn't it, it was George Bush's father, brother another Bush or something after. Q. Okay. I think it was his father? A. Yeah, after, before Clinton or something. That, I don't think I know farther from there. Q. Okay. Can you name five U.S. cities for me? A. Five U.S. cities? Q. Uh-huh. A. Detroit. Q. Okay. A. Los Angeles, Chicago, Miami, and New York City. Q. Pm sorry. What's that? A. New York City. Q. New York City. A. Some reason I was thinking Boise, Idaho, or something Isn't that, it's Idaho, right, Boise, Idaho? Q. Yeah. A. Yeah. Q. I think Boise is a city. A. Yeah. Q. Some, some may argue with that, but 46 (Pages 178 to 181) PROSE COURT REPORTING. AGENCY, .INC . Electronically signed by cynthia hopkIns (601-051.976.2934) b6c0743b- se - EFTA00723727 Page 182 1 think it's a city. Can you tell me something you 2 have heard on the news recently or something going 3 on with current events? 4 A. I was actually watching the news yesterday and 5 it was that, that little girl that her mom sold her for 6 drugs or money or whatever, she sold her for, some kind 7 of prostitution and she ended up raped and killed or 8 whatever. And her mom has got, she's pregnant with 9 another child and has a child that's older than the one 10 that she just gave up or whatever. 11 Q. Okay. I think she's up in North Carolina? 12 is that the one? 13 A. I'm not sure where ifs at. I think it's 14 something like that. it's everywhere. 15 Q. Yeah. And then been hearing that story on 16 the radio bother you, or the news or TV. 17 A. It, it bothered me. But I mean, like, you 18 know, what am I supposed to do? I mean, there's 19 every other day I hear about some kid going missing. 20 And it just makes me old my kid a lot closer. You know 21 what I mean? 22 Q. Did your experience with Epstein give you 23 a different perspective on that story? 24 A. About kids and abuse? 25 Q. Uh-huh. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 184 has his nap around three or four. And during his nap, I'm making dinner or finishing up whatever I didn't do during the day like laundry or whatever. I try to do stuff while he's asleep because it makes it a lot easier for me. Because Pm not, you know, trying to get him out of whatever he is doing over in his own mom or you know, walking around the house trying to grab other stuff. Q. Okay. What do you usually do for dinner? A. I mean, I usually make whatever I make it from, most of the time from scratch, from fresh vegetables and meat or whatever. Most of the time I have to make my son something else because he doesn't — he is kind of a picky eater. Q. Okay. A. So, like I will make chicken and, you know, macaroni and cheese. Hell only eat the Macaroni and cheese, or you know, I will have to make him rice or something or some kind of potato or, you know. Like he likes that for some reason, he does not eat meat. I can get him to eat fruits, but vegetables rarely. I have to mix it with food. And i have to like trick him. So, he eats pasta. I can get him to eat spaghetti with the sauce and stuff, but he will pick out like the chunks of tomatoes and the onion. He will just, like, throw it on Page 183 1 A. Yeah, I mean, I don't, I don't know if it's 2 just because of that or because I became a mom or 3 whatever, but, 'just, I just don't believe in hitting a child or, you know, any kind of. Q. Okay. A. Neglect or abuse. I just — kids shouldn't have to go through stuff like that. You know. They are 3 young and innocent and, you know, they shouldn't have to 9 . have those kinds of pains or problems or that, 10 especially if it's their parents doing it to them Is 11 wrong. But I just, you know, l think ifs more since I 12 became a mom than my own situation, but i mean, it could 13 have something to do with it. 14 Q. Okay. What do you do in a typical day? 15 A. Make breakfast, clean up after breakfast, 16 clean whatever mess from the night before like dishes 17 or, you know, that living room or kitchen being dirty. 18 i clean the house which I make breakfast, me and my son 19 either go outside or, you know, play a game or 20 something. He takes a nap usually after he plays for a 21 little bit, takes a nap at like 11. During his nap I 22 make lunch. After lunch he gets a bath. !clean up, 23 you know. 24 Q. Okay. 25 A. Whatever. You know. We play some more. He 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 185 the floor. lie wants nothing to do with it. And I could try but he will tell me no. He knows how to say it so he tells me no. After dinner- Q. Yeah. A. is another bath for him. Q. Mar. A. Cleanup whatever big mess that he made in his little area, his high chair and the table and the floor and, you know, sometimes Aaron helps, you know, like getting him, giving him a bath or whatever. But if I have — if he is giving him a bath, I'm getting him clothes to wear, a diaper, putting his towel down on his bed, yeah. And then after we just hang out. Put him to sleep. He is asleep by like eight, eight or nine. No later than nine. He has a strict bedtime. Q. Okay. And how are you doing with keeping up with cleaning and things like that? A. it's good. Q. Okay. Are you able to do the gtuv ty shopping? A. Yeah. Q. Cooking, sounds likes you are doing okay with that? A. Yeah. Q. Ilan you use public transportation if you 47 (Pages 182 to 185) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthia hopkIns ($014514178-2934) b546743b-dae0-4bc1-aSeb-f6360b265754 EFTA00723728 Page 186 1 need to? 2 A. If yeah, if I need -- well, not with my son. 3 Q. Okay. Why not with your son? 4 A. Because I wouldn't trust bringing him onto an 5 actual moving vehicle without reliable, without a car 6 seat, him being strapped and seated, and you know — 7 Q. Okay. 8 A. Stuff like that. But by myself I would have 9 no problem, but you know, if I had my son, I wouldn't. 10 Q Okay. So you have used like the Tiff-Rail 11 or the buss or the train? 12 A. Yeah. 13 Q. Okay. Going out of the house in general? 14 A. Huh? 15 Q. Are you able to go out of the house in 16 general? 17 A. Yeah. 18 Q How are you with traveling? 19 A. As in traveling like out of state or — 20 Q. Yeah? 21 A. I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't do planes 22 and I don't do highways, so I barely, rarely ever 23 travel. 24 Q. Why not planes? 25 A. God, don't, since 91i I haven't gotten on a Page 188 1 A. Myself. I don't get to do like my hairlike 2 nonnal women, or you know like to look all nice. I 3 don't get that, because by the end of the day, its just 4 going to be the same way. It's always coming back down. 5 So I don't even bother. It's not that, you know, I 6 don't — I don't think it's that I don't want to. It's 7 that I don't feel like it at all. I don't care to do it 8 because, I mean, it's not — you know, who am I 9 impressing? Like I have been with the same man for 10 three years so I mean, like, my son could care less. He 11 pulls my hair. You know he don't really, you know, care 12 what my hair looks like. So, after that's the only, you 13 know, thing with my — I just don't do my hair. I don't 14 do it at all. 15 Q. How about showering and things like that? 16 A. Oh, yeah, I shower. I mean, the shaving part, 17 I don't know how often I get to that, but I mean. 18 Q. Okay. 19 A. !just keep on pants and long sleeve shirts. 20 Q. How has your sleep been recently? 21 A. Good. 22 Q. And are you able to use a telephone 23 directory or the Internet or... 24 A. Yeah. 25 Q. And I notice you have one of the I-phones Page 187 1 flight. 2 Q. Paying bills? 3 A My husband pays bills, yeah. I, I bring 4 the -- I write the checks, and you Imow, makes sure they 5 are paid, but he is the one who brings the money. 6 Q. You mean, he earns the money but you 7 actually write the checks? 8 A. Yeah. 9 Q. Put them in the envelopes? 10 A. He brings home the bacon and I cook it, pretty 11 much. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Q. Okay. How are you with taking cam of 25 myself? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 10 11 Q. Okay. And have you guys missed payments? 12 A. No, no. No, I have never — since we have 13 lived in this house, we have never been late on any kind 14 of payment or — 15 Q. How are you with maintaining the 16 residence? 17 A. Good. Aaron does most of the yard work, but I 18 have a little garden in the front and a little rose bush 19 that I water in the mornings while -- 20 Q. Is it like a flower garden or vegetable 21 garden? 22 A. It's a flower garden. 23 24 25 Page 1.8 or something? A. Yes. Christmas present from Aaron. Q. That's nice. A. Yeah. It actually was. I have been waiting or this thing forever. I haven't had a phone in so long so — Q. How are you with using the post office? A. It's goad. I actually FedExed something to them a couple of days ago. It was Friday. Q. Okay. A. So, they are very -- it was UPS or FedEx or something like that that I know I sent it to them. Q. How are you with social activities? A. I don't go out. I don't do like the night scene or, you know, like I don't, I don't like hanging out really. Q. Okay. Why is that? A. I don't know. I mean, I don't like what kids are more interested in doing. Like I don't like partying or being around crowds of people or, like, you know. I don't know, I'm just — Q. Okay. You're just not into the party lifestyle anymore? A. No, not at at Q. Do you want to be? 48 (Pages 186 to 189) IIIIIIM PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. El n y cyn hopithIll (601451476-2934) 95497439- ac t EFTA00723729 Page 190 1 A. No, not, not really. I mean, like what am I 2 missing out on, that, you know, that I haven't already 3 tried, you know. 4 Q. Are you able to relax and enjoy yourself. 5 A. Yeah. I wonder where that thing went. I 6 don't even know if they got that UPS thing. I had the 7 tracking number with something they give me. 8 Q. "They" being your attorneys or someone 9 else? 10 A. Yeah, as my, I sent them a FedEx or I went to 11 UPS a couple days — it was Friday. They needed 12 something from me. 13 Q. Again I don't need to know. 14 A. Yeah. it was just paper. !just wanted to 15 see when was the last time I went to, when was it or was 16 it supposed to be there. 17 Q. Last week or two? 18 A. Yeah, I went. 19 Q. Okay. How do you get along with family 20 members? 21 A. Good. 22 Q. And friends, are you able to still talk 23 and maintain friendships? 24 A. Yeah, l have got some friends. I have got a 25 couple of girls I talk to. But I mean, I don't really Page 192 1 A. Yeah. 2 Q. And do you interact with the landlord? 3 A. Yeah, 1, as a matter of fact, l took her to 4 she's a friend of mine. Her son is a, had a daughter 5 around the same time i had my son. 6 Q. Okay. 7 A. So, yeah, !hang out with her — well, her 8 son's girlfriend and, you know, like my son hangs out 9 with her daughter and whatever, but, yeah — 10 Q. And how is hanging out or being out in 11 public or, you know, okay, going to like the mall 12 and being around strangers? 13 A. Yeah, I just, I don't like crowds of people. 14 Q. Okay. Is that something new or is that - 15 A. No. That's always been like that. I just 16 don't like big crowds of people. You know. I can be in 17 the mall, but I don't like to get stuck in film, you 18 know, a big crowd of people or like, you know. 19 Q. So, you wouldn't like a protest or 20 something would not be your cup of tea? 21 A. I don't think, no. 22 Q. All right. And in general in your 23 day-to-day things, taking care of the little one, 24 cooking dinner, things like that, how is your 25 attention? Page 191 1 hang out with them. They have their own, like, life and 2 doing their own stuff with their kids or whatever. 3 Q. Do you see anybody else who's been involved with the Epstein issue? A. No. I don't even talk to those people no 6 more. !just want to hang out with my family or my 7 cousins or something. 8 Q. Okay. How are you with your neighbors? 9 A. My neighbors are my parents on one side, and 10 the other neighbors, they are all right. I mean, I have 11 a problem with their cat. I don't — cats. 12 Q. You got the blue ph bull? 13 A. I didn't get him because of it, get her 14 because of it. But they have, they think that cats are 15 supposed to be outside or something. 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. But they let their cat run around all day and 18 it will be under my house because I have a trailer. And 19 i mean, it's really annoying to be climbing on my car 20 and stuff. But, yeah, I just, I don't like their cat. 21 I don't like cats. My son's allergic to them. So is my 22 husband, so I just don't like cats. Cats are not -- 23 they are all allergic to cat hair and stuff like that. 24 Q. Can you go to a grocery store, make small 25 talk, do all right being in the line? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 193 A. It's good. Q. Concentration? A. It's fine. Q. Okay. Persistence, meaning you can pick a task, stick with it, get it done? A. Yeah. Q. And pace, you ;mow, going at a steady pace while working on something? A. I can, l guess, I mean -- Q. Okay. A. It's okay. Q. Okay. How do you deal with stress? A. I listen to music or go in my room and just like relax for a second, try to sit down and re — like, you know, like refocus on what i was supposed to be doing. And you know, I mean, like rejuvenate myself, make sure like I can, you know, get my mind right and everything, you know, settled before i go out and snap so -- Q. Generally do you handle stress well? A. All right, I guess. Q. Okay. How are you with making decisions under stress? A. Making decisions, l'm, I'm usually the one who decides everything but — 49 (Pages 190 to 1 9 3) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601.061.976.2934) 136cb743b-dae6-413c145•b46350b265754 EFTA00723730 Page 194 1 Q. Okay. 2 A. I don't know about under stress only because, 3 you know, like I probably need a second opinion or 4 somebody to like see what they thing about it but other 5 than that, fine. 6 Q. But you generally are, you make decisions, 7 you're a decisive person? 8 A. Yeah, in my house, yeah. I make most of the 9 decisions. 10 Q. How are you with attendance? I mean, I 11 you're not actively working. but i mean if you 12 needed to be somewhere on a daily basis, do you 13 think you could make it or do you think you would be 14 late or — 15 A. No, I would be there. 16 Q. Okay. How are you with keeping schedules? 17 A. Good. 18 Q. Okay. Finishing things you start? 19 A. If ifs stuff to do with the house, like i 20 started a scrapbook a couple months back, and I didn't 21 finish it. But 1 mean stuff like that, like stuff that 22 has to do with me, I don't really finish too much. 23 Q. Okay. 24 A. But like, to do with the house or, you know — 25 Q. Okay. So something that needs to get Page 196 1 yell at people when they cut me off, but it doesn't go 2 to like me trying to chase them down or getting out of 3 my car like, you know. 4 Q. Okay. I know you're not actively working 5 but how do you think you do with working with 6 supervisors or peers? 7 A. All right, I guess. When I was training at 8 Little Caesars, I was fine, but they just didn't give me 9 the job. So it wasn't like, you know, I had bad 10 workmen's skills or whatever. I just was too short for 11 the register they told me. 12 Q. They could use a stool if they wanted to 13 but, I guess — 14 A. Yeah. I asked them that. They- 15 Q. Okay. 16 A. it would have gotten in the way. 17 Q. What's your attitude towards the future? 18 A. All right. 19 Q. What do you see yourself doing in the next 20 five to ten years? 21 A. I world like to go to culinary school and open 22 like my own mom-and-pop diner. 23 Q. You like cooking? 24 A. Yeah. 25 Q. I think I forgot to ask earlier, was DCF Page 195 1 done, gets done? 2 A. Yeah, it gets done. 2 3 Q. But a project kind of for yourself -- 3 4 A. Yeah, its a little — 4 5 Q. it may get placed — 5 6 A. Yeah. Its a little — 6 7 Q. in the background. 7 8 A. Yeah, it's a slow but i get around to it 9 sometimes. 9 10 Q. How are you with handling criticism? 10 11 A. I'm all right, l guess. I try - i make new 11 12 foods so I, you blow, i get people to try it. It 12 13 doesn't always come out as great as I'd like it. So, I 13 14 don't really like, you know, care about it. It doesn't 14 15 really bother me. 15 16 Q. Do you have any problems with anger or 16 17 rage? 17 18 A. Not, no, no — I may be angry, but it's not 18 19 like I start breaking stuff or punching things or you 19 20 know, saying very mean things. I mean, I get mad but -- 20 21 Q. You get angry but you don't lose control 21 22 or do things you regret? 22 23 A. Yeah, no, not at all. 23 24 Q. Any issues with road rage or 24 25 A. No, not really. I mean, i don't —I kind of 25 Page 197 ever involved with your family? A. One time they were called. They, my mom had a problem with them, but that's it. It was like they did a little investigation. Like they, they said my parents were getting high or something. So then they took some urine and then they came back one time to ask me how I was doing, and that's it. I think that's where the investigation ended or whatever. Q. Okay. Anyone close in your life besides the boyfriend we talked about pass away? A. I found my grandma in her house. She had a heart attack Q. How was that for you? A. Pretty hard. i have never seen a dead body and you know, other than lames, but you know. Q. How old were you when it happened? A. I was 16 when my grandmother died. Q. Again when you lose a loved one, I mean, it's maybe something you never forget but how long do you think it greatly affected you for? A. Maybe like a month, because, you know, I know my grandma, like as she — we took, my mom took good care of her. You know, she like — my grandma didn't have like very good school skills. She didn't know how to like use a phone to write her name or nothing. So, • • 50 (Pages 194 to 197) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by Cynthia hopkins (601-061.978.2934) bact)743b-dae6-4bel-a6eb46360b255764 EFTA00723731 Page 198 I my morn was like really good with that, take her grocery 2 shopping, get her bills paid and make sure her Social 3 Security check was cashed and make sure she was fine and I had everything she needed. But when she passed, you know, it was sad, 6 but you know, we, we all knew that we did everything / we could, you know, to make her life, you know, as peacellil as it could be, you know, as pleasurable as 9 it could be. 10 Q. Okay. Anything I haven't asked you that 11. you think! should know or any additional comments 12 or anything you want to say? 13 A. No. 14 Q. And just to recap real quick with Epstein: 15 You went the one time. You think you were Just 16 around 13,14. You went into the room, massaged 17 him. You don't remember exactly what happened in 18 terms of where he touched you? 19 A. He touched my chest,lIcnow. 20 Q. Touched your chest. 21 A. Yeah. 22 Q. Okay. You felt uncomfortable, felt that 23 ifyou said no that he may get violent. Did you 24 ftel your life was in danger? 25 A. I don't know. I mean, if I felt like he was Page 200 1 g I've heard he's had pictures in his house. 2 Did you recognize anybody else in any of the photos? 3 A. No. I don't remember if there was any 4 pictures or anything, no. 5 Q. Okay. And you never brought anyone else 6 there? 7 A. No? 8 Q. No. All right. 1 think all I have got 9 left to do is some questionnaires. They are paper 10 and pencil or pen. 11 A. Okay. 12 Q. If you would like to take a little break 13 before we start, or if you just want to get to them, 14 whatever works best for you. 15 A. Just get it done. !just want to need to see 16 if dinner is done. 17 (Jane Doe No. 6 made a telephone call.) 18 BY DR. HALL: 19 Q. I hope you did catch the l ove you part 20 at the end. 21 A. Yeah, I heard it, but !just want to get this 22 done. I thought it was going to be over a long time 23 ago. I thought it was going to be done by 5:00. I'm 24 sorry that I am, you know — this is ridiculous. 25 Q. 1 think we're in probably about the last Page 199 1 going to get violent, I, I don't know. I don't want to 2 say yeah, but I don't know. You know, I was scared. 3 Q. And scared or, scared of him not scared of 4 people fmding out? 5 A. I was scared of him. 6 Q. Okay. People asked you to go back. You 7 said no. You didn't want to tell the police because 8 you didn't want it to be found out 9 A. Yeah, I didn't even, like, you know, really 10 know where I went anyways to even tell anybody. You 11 know. Like I didn't know the house or the street or, 12 you blow. 13 Q. Did you know his name? 14 A. There was a, on the desk it had like, you 15 know, his nameplate. I remember the rust name but not 16 the last name until the FBI came up to me and like asked 17 me, and you know. 18 Q. Okay. 19 A. Showed me. I didn't many remember. 20 Q. Do you know anybody else who went there 21 besides E.W. and S.R? 22 A. Jane Doe, no. 23 Q. Okay. And while you were there did 24 anybody take pictures of you that you know of? 25 A. No, I don't think so. Page 201 1 30-to-40-minute part, so as soon as we get these two 2 things done -- 3 A. You've had the following serious accidents. 4 What does that mean, serious accidents, as in like my 5 car accident or 6 Q. Yeah, whatever you think fits best there. 7 I mean, some people fell off their bike and had to 8 be hospitalized — 9 A. I never had any broken bones, nothing 10 Q. Okay. 11 A. So this should be easy. No, illness. No 12 surgeries. Did either parent die during -- 13 Q. This questionnaire, some of the questions 14 that were, were redundant, the ones like that you 15 can go through quickly. 16 A. All right. Well, this is ridiculous, like -- 17 MS. ARBOUR: We're going to take a break 18 fora second. 19 (A brief recess was held and the test was 20 continued.) 21 DR. HALL: Are you done? 22 JANE DOE NO. 6: Yeah. I need to go, 23 like — 24 MS. ARBOUR: Well, if you're not done, we 25 have another 35 minutes left so... 51 (Pages 198 to 201) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. ec roma y s tined by Cynthia honks (!01.061-9764934) b5cb743 EFTA00723732 Page 202 1 JANE DOE NO.6: Are you serious? 2 MS. ARBOUR: Yes. 3 JANE DOE NO.6: Even though I got hoe at 4 9:30? 5 MS. ARBOUR It's eight hours of tape. 6 JANE DOE NO.6: Oh, my God. 7 MS. ARBOUR That's why we said 6:30. So, 8 if you're done, then let's get this done. 9 JANE DOE NO.6: I don't. He didn't give 10 me this paper. I don't know if I was 11 supposed - 12 MS. ARBOUR: Okay. If you're done with 13 this, let me go get him. Just sign this. 14 JANE DOE NO.6: My babysitter is about 15 to, yon know, like cuss me out. Like I have no 16 choice. I have filled out the same 17 questionnaire like three times. This is like 18 ridiculous. 19 DR. HALL: Thank you. This is the 20 questionnaire. Some of the questions are 21 redundant. The ones like that, you can go 22 through quickly. 23 JANE DOE NO.6: All right. rm telling 24 you like this is ridiculous. I am just going 25 to fill this out and not even worry about it 2 3 4 6 7 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CERTIFICATE STATE OF FLORIDA COUNTY OF PALM BEACH I, Cynthia Hopkins, Registered Professional Reporter and Florida Professional Reporter, State of Florida at large, certify that I was authorized to and did stenographically report the foregoing proceedings and that the transcript is a true and complete record of my stenographic notes. Dated this 18th day of December, 2009. cs(siu As Hopkins, RPit 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 203 I need to go like my son. (The testing was concluded at 6:31 p.m.) MS. ARBOUR: Are you ready? JANE DOE NO.6: Yeah. (The examination was concluded.) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY sigma by cynthia ItopkIns (601-051476-2934) 52 (Pages 202 to 204 INC. 1,5O)743 no -4bct-aSeb-16350b255754 EFTA00723733