Case 09-34791-RBR

Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 1 of 165 UNITED STATES BANKRUPTCY COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA FORT LAUDERDALE DIVISION www.flsb.uscourts.gov IN RE: ROTHSTEIN ROSENFELDT ADLER, P.A., Debtor. CASE NO.: 09-34791-RBR CHAPTER 11 INTERVENOR-VICTIM L.M.'S MOTION TO COMPEL JEFFREY EPSTEIN TO PROVIDE ANSWERS TO DEPOSITION QUESTIONS Intervenor L.M., proceeding pseudonymously, having previously been allowed to intervene in this action, now respectfully submits this Motion to Compel Jeffrey Epstein to Provide Answers to Deposition Questions. Because Epstein has improperly refused to answer multiple questions at his recent deposition, the motion should be granted. Relevant Factual Background The facts of this case are familiar to this Court. For present purposes, it is enough to note that on October 13, 2018, Jeffrey Epstein sat for his deposition in this matter, as previously ordered by this Court (DE 6366). The subject of the deposition was "allegations of federal civil contempt regarding the alleged discovery violations of the Agreed Order." DE 6366 at 5 (citing DE 1194). Mr. Epstein improperly refused to answer many questions about this subject during his deposition, as enumerated below. Relevant Legal Standards Under Federal Bankruptcy Rule 7030, Rule 30 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure applies in adversary bankruptcy proceedings of this type. Under Rule 30, a deponent can refuse to answer questions only to protect a privilege or enforce a limitation ordered by the Court. Under Rule 37(a)(3)(B)(i) (made applicable to bankruptcy proceedings under Federal Bankruptcy Rule 1 EFTA00793499 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 2 of 165 7037), a party may move to compel an answer to a question asked during a deposition. See, e.g., In re Stasch, 2007 WL 1491109 (Bankr. S.D. Fla. 007) ("Fed. R. Civ. P. 37 applies in adversary proceedings. Rule 37(b)(2) permits the Court to impose sanctions for discovery violations. A primary purpose of Rule 37 is to prevent and deter future discovery abuses."). Of course, it is well-known that discovery depositions are not limited to collecting evidence that may be admissible at trial. Instead, discovery is allowed to obtain information that is "germane, conceivably helpful to plaintiff, or reasonably calculated to lead to admissible evidence. . . . In short, information can be relevant and therefore discoverable, even if not admissible at trial, so long as the information is reasonably calculated to lead to the discovery of admissible evidence." Donahay v. Palm Beach Tours & Transp., Inc„ 242 F.R.D. 685, 687 (S.D. Fla. 2007) (internal quotations omitted). The burden is on the party asserting a privilege or other basis for refusing to answer a deposition question to establish the basis for doing so. See In re Fisher Island Investments, Inc.„ 2015 WL 148449 at * 2 (Bankr. S.D. Fla. 2015) (placing burden on party asserting privilege). Improper Refusal to Answer Questions During his deposition, Mr. Epstein improperly refused to answer multiple questions he was asked. Illustrative of the questions he improperly refused to answer are each of the following questions. These examples are illustrative, and Mr. Epstein should be ordered to answer all these questions and others of equivalent character or on similar subjects, including followup questions based on the answers to the questions below. Invoices showing description of services Q: Were you ever billed by Fowler White with invoices that included a description of the services that Fowler White rendered on your behalf? MR. LINK: I am instructing him not to answer. 2 EFTA00793500 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 3 of 165 First Epstein Depo Transcript at 14 (hereinafter "1' Epstein Depo. Tr.", attached as Exhibit A). The descriptions of the services that Fowler White rendered on Epstein's behalf could be vital in developing a timeline about when the disc was review or copied, and questioning about the possible existence of such records is appropriate. If counsel is asserting an attorney-client objection, merely describing the kinds of invoices that Epstein received would not reveal the substance of any communication. And, in any event, Epstein bears the burden of proof on the applicability of any privilege. Remainder of Conversation with Attorney that Epstein Partially Disclosed Q: Paragraph four of your declaration, Exhibit Number 1, states, "In February 2018, Scott J. Link of Link & Rockenbach, PA, informed me that he had located a disc in Fowler White's files labeled," quote, Epstein Bate Stamp, unquote. Did I read that accurately? A: Correct. Q: That was a communication from Mr. Link, your lawyer, to you, correct? A: Yes. Q: What else did Mr. Link tell you? MR. LINK: So, I'm going to instruct you not to disclose any of your conversations that involved legal advice or strategy or protected communication. If you recall that I said anything other than I located a disc specific to that topic, you can answer. THE WITNESS: I remember that. Everything else I talked with my attorneys. BY MR. SCAROLA: Yes, I know you were talking to your lawyer. I want to know everything that your lawyer told you in this conversation that you have partially disclosed.... What else did he tell you? MR. LINK: So, I'm going to instruct you not to answer based both on attorney- client privilege and exceeds the scope of Judge Hafele's order. I" Epstein Depo. Tr. at 22. Clearly Epstein put forward the conversation with his attorney about the disc in paragraph four of his declaration in this case. Accordingly, he waived attorney-client privilege over the conversation. See Fla. Stat. § 90.507 ("A person who has a privilege against the disclosure of a confidential matter or communication waives the privilege if the person, or the person's predecessor while holder of the privilege, voluntarily discloses . . . or consents to disclosure of, any significant part of the matter or communication."). He should be compelled to 3 EFTA00793501 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 4 of 165 describe the rest of the conversation. And Epstein bears the burden of proving the applicability of attorney-client privilege. Receipt of Documents from the Disc Q: What specific documents that originated on the disc did you receive? MR. LINK: So, I'm going to instruct you not to answer that question based on attorney-client and work product. Ist Epstein Depo. Tr. at 22. Clearly Epstein put forward the conversation with his attorney about the disc in paragraph four of his declaration. Accordingly, he waived attorney-client privilege over the conversation. See Fla. Stat. § 90.507 ("A person who has a privilege against the disclosure of a confidential matter or communication waives the privilege if the person, or the person's predecessor while holder of the privilege, voluntarily discloses or makes the communication when he or she does not have a reasonable expectation of privacy, or consents to disclosure of, any significant part of the matter or communication."). He has no right to put forward the part of the conversation that he believes is helpful to him, without at the same time answering questions about other parts of the conversation. And he bears the burden of proving privilege. Epstein's Awareness of Assertion of Privilege over Entails Q: You are aware that there are emails which Bradley Edwards alleges to be privileged emails, correct? A: I am aware that there -- I was told 27,000 emails [were] alleged -- in some form to be privileged. Q: Who told you [that 27,000 documents were alleged to be privileged]? A: My attorneys. Q: Which one? A: I don't recall. Q: When? A: I don't recall. Q: Was it before or after March of 2018? A: Before. Q: Was it before or after February of 2018? A: I don't recall. Q: What do you remember about that conversation? MR. LINK: Again, I don't want you to share the details of the conversation. 4 EFTA00793502 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 5 of 165 MR. SCAROLA: He has already done that. He has already made an assertion of what he was told. That's a waiver of the privilege. I want to know about the conversation in its entirety. MR. LINK: And I don't believe that it was a waiver of the privilege. He gave you non-privileged communication, and he's not going to share with you privileged communications. r Epstein Depo. Tr. at 51-52. In the exchange quoted here, Epstein states that he "was told 27,000 emails [were] alleged -- in some form to be privileged." That constituted a waiver of any privileges regarding what he was told, which is clearly critical to this contempt proceeding where the willfulness of Epstein's (and his attorneys') actions is central. Here again, Epstein cannot put forward the part of the conversation that he believes is helpful to him, without at the same time answering questions about other parts of the conversation. And he bears the burden of establishing a privilege. Existence of Relevant Documents Q: Were you informed that you had an obligation to bring with you at the time of this deposition those items that are described on the second page of Exhibit Number 3, quote, All communications and all records relating to all communications concerning or containing information derived from documents or data over which a claim of privilege was asserted by or on behalf of Rothstein, Rosenfeldt, Adler PA; Fanner, Jaffe, Weissing, Edwards, Fistos & Lehrman, P.L.; or Bradley J. Edwards? MR. LINK: I think -- which subpoena duces tecum are you looking at, Jack? Which case? MR. SCAROLA: This is the subpoena duces tecum issued in the bankruptcy court proceedings. MR. LINK: So in the bankruptcy court proceeding, we filed an objection to the subpoena duces tecum, and you and your law firm never responded, so there are no documents being produced in the bankruptcy matter. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q: Do you have any documents that fit within the description that I just read? MR. LINK: You are not going to answer that question. MR. SCAROLA: And the basis for that? MR. LINK: I filed my objection and it has sat there for months and you didn't respond to it or move to compel it. I am not going to let him answer any questions about it. 5 EFTA00793503 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 6 of 165 1St Epstein Depo. Tr. at 59-61. In the exchange quoted here, Epstein is merely asked whether he has documents of a certain type. Epstein's counsel argues that he had filed a motion to quash a subpoena associated with those documents. But even assuming the existence of such a motion to quash, that hardly constitutes a basis for instructing the witness not to answer. Epstein should be compelled to answer about the existence of such documents. Bias in Answering Questions Q: Do you have any bias against L.M., sir? MR. LINK: I'm going to instruct you not to answer that question. It exceeds the scope of the permitted deposition by Judge Ray. 2nd Epstein Depo. Tr. at 8, attached as Exhibit B. Epstein's deposition was taken in connection with the pending contempt proceedings, and some of the answers that Epstein gave were unfavorable to L.M. L.M. is entitled to ask whether Epstein bears any bias against her. See, e.g., Davis v. Alaska, 415 U.S. 308, 316 (1974) ("The partiality of a witness is subject to exploration at trial, and is 'always relevant as discrediting the witness and affecting the weight of his testimony') (quoting 3A J. Wigmore, Evidence § 940, p. 775 (Chadboum rev. 1970)). Reason to Deny Having Knowledge about the Disc. Q: Mr. Epstein, would you have any reason to deny having knowledge about a disc that contains information about L.M.? MR. LINK: I am going to instruct you not to answer the question. I don't understand it. I believe it exceeds the scope of this deposition as set by Judge Ray. 2nd Epstein Depo. Tr. at 10. Epstein's deposition was taken in connection with the pending contempt proceedings, and some of the answers that Epstein gave were unfavorable to L.M. L.M. is entitled to ask whether Epstein bears any bias against her. See, e.g., Davis v. Alaska, 415 U.S. 308, 316 (1974) ("The partiality of a witness is subject to exploration at trial, and is `always relevant as discrediting the witness and affecting the weight of his testimony') (quoting 3A J. Wigmore, Evidence § 940, p. 775 (Chadboum rev. 1970)). 6 EFTA00793504 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 7 of 165 Reason to Deny Having Knowledge about a Disc Referred to in Paragraph . Q: Do you see paragraph four of that sworn declaration of facts? A: Yes. Q: And do you see a reference there to a disc, quote, CD, in that paragraph? A: Yes. Q: Would you have any reason to deny knowledge about that CD? MR. LINK: Object to the form. And I'm going to instruct him not to answer. MR. CASSELL: On what basis? MR. LINK: The question is not consistent with what Judge Ray, in his ruling, where he says very limited to asking him about his knowledge. 2nd Epstein Depo. Tr. at 13. In this contempt proceeding, Epstein filed a sworn declaration of facts, including an assertion in paragraph four regarding a CD at the center of this proceeding. Counsel is entitled to explore reasons why Epstein might not want to admit knowing about the CD, as that goes directly to his testimony on central issues in this proceeding. Failure to Disclose Knowledge of the Disc to the Court Q: [In your declaration] [why didn't you inform Judge Ray that you had the information from the CD in other ways? MR. LINK: Well, then I am going to instruct him not to answer the question, because, A, it's nonsensical. And, B, it is beyond the scope of Judge Ray's order. 2nd Epstein Depo. Tr. at 16-17. This question asks about a paragraph in Epstein's declaration, in which he represented to the Court that he had "never seen the CD." During questioning in the deposition, it became apparent that Epstein had in fact seen the information from the CD. This question simply asks the natural followup question on this important issue: Why didn't Epstein disclose this fact to the Court? Prejudice Again L.M. Q: Do you have any prejudice against my client [i.e., L.M.] that would lead you to say no when in fact the answer is yes? MR. LINK: I am going to instruct you not to answer. 7 EFTA00793505 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 8 of 165 2nd Epstein Depo. Tr. at 22-23. This question simply asks about Epstein's prejudice against L.M., which might lead him to give inaccurate testimony. Questioning about such bias is always relevant, as discussed earlier. Possession of Documents Connect to the CD Q: On or after February 1st, 2018, do you have any documents connected to the CD? A: I don't know what you mean by connected to. Are asking me if I kept any copies of the emails that reference your client [i.e., L.M.]? Q: No. I am asking you whether you have any documents connected to the CD. MR. LINK: Mr. Cassell, I am just going to object and instruct him not to answer the question. BY MR. CASSELL: Q: Mr. Epstein, on or after February 1st, 2018, do you have any documents related to the CD? MR. LINK: Again, I'm going to object to the form. I don't know how he can answer that question. I believe it exceeds what the bankruptcy court has permitted. The bankruptcy court was very clear that what has happened post my receipt of the CD is not an issue for the bankruptcy court, so I am going to instruct you not to answer, Mr. Epstein. BY MR. CASSELL: Q: Mr. Epstein, on or after February 1st, 2018, do you have any documents connected to L.M. that came from the CD? MR. LINK: I have got the same objection and the same instruction. 2nd Epstein Depo. Tr. at 27-28. The CD is at the center of this contempt proceeding, and this passage merely shows a question about whether Epstein has document connected with the CD. Such questions are clearly within the scope of the deposition permitted. Statements Epstein Received about Locating the CD Q: Do you see paragraph four in that document? A: You have asked me that question before. Yes. Q: And in that paragraph four, it indicates that Scott Link informed you that he had located a CD. MR. LINK: Yes, sir, that's what it says. BY MR. CASSELL: Q: Did he tell you anything about L.M. when he informed you he had located the disc? MR. LINK: I am going to instruct him not to answer based on both attorney-client privilege, work product, and it exceeds the scope of Judge Ray's order. 8 EFTA00793506 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 9 of 165 2nd Epstein Depo. Tr. at 32. Epstein made a disclosure about what Mr. Link informed him of, and this question simply asks what was disclosed — specifically with reference to L.M. Again, such issues are at the heart of this contempt proceeding, particularly since they relate to Mr. Epstein's declaration filed in this proceeding. CONCLUSION The Court should direct Mr. Epstein to answer the questions described above and questions of a similar character and should permit counsel to ask follow up questions associated without the answers that were improperly withheld. 9 EFTA00793507 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 10 of 165 CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE I HEREBY CERTIFY that a true and correct copy of the foregoing was served electronically to all registered users on the CM/ECF system, which includes counsel identified on the service list below, on this 22nd day of October, 2018. I HEREBY CERTIFY that the undersigned attorney is appearing pro hac vice in this matter pursuant to court order dated May 4, 2018. Paul G. Cassell, Esq. S.J. Quinney College of Law at the University of Utah (above for address/contact purposes only, not to imply institutional endorsement) By: /s/ Paul G. Cassell r N' Pro Hac Vice -AND — I HEREBY CERTIFY that I am admitted to the Bar of the United State District Court for the Southern District of Florida and I am in compliance with the additional qualifications to practice in this court set forth in Local Rule 2090-1(A). SHAPIRO LAW By: /s/ Peter E. ha it Peter E. Shapiro (FBN Attorneys for Intervenors L.M., E.W., and Jane Doe 10 EFTA00793508 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 11 of 165 Attorneys for Jeffrey Epstein SERVICE LIST Bradley J. Edwards FLBN Brittany N. Henderson FLBN 118247 Edwards Pottinger LLC Attorneys for Farmer, Jaffe, Weissing, Edwards, Fistos & Lehrman, P.L. Jack Scarola, Esi= Florida Bar No. David P. Vitale, Florida Bar No. Attorney E-Mails' Primary E-Mail: Searcy Denney Scarola Barnhart & Shipley, P.A. Attorneys for Bradley J. Edwards Scott J. Link, Esq. Link &Rockenbach, P.A. Chad P. Pugatch, Esq. Rice Pugatch Robinson Storfer & Cohen, PLLC 11 EFTA00793509 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 12 of 165 Niall T. McLachlan Carlton Fields Jorden Burt, P.A. Counsel for howler White Burnett, Y.A. 12 EFTA00793510 Case 08-34791-F2BR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22118 Page 13 of 165 EXHIBIT A FIRST EPSTEIN DEPOSITION EFTA00793511 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 14 of 165 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE FIFTEENTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT, IN AND FOR PALM BEACH COUNTY, FLORIDA Case No. 502009CA040800XXXXMB JEFFREY EPSTEIN, Plaintiff/Counter-Defendant, vs. SCOTT ROTHSTEIN, individually; BRADLEY EDWARDS, individually, Defendants/Counter-Plaintiffs. / VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF JEFFREY EPSTEIN Saturday, 9:07 a.m. 1555 Palm West Palm October 13th, 2018 - 11:00 a.m. Beach Lakes Boulevard, #930 Beach, Florida 33401 Examination of the witness taken before Sonja D. Hall Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 1665 Palm Beach Lakes Boulevard, Suite 1001 West Palm Beach, FL 33401 Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793512 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 15 of 165 2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 APPEARANCES: For Plaintiff/Counter-Defendant: LINK & ROCKENBACH, P.A. By SCOTT J. LINK, ESQUIRE By KARA BERARD ROCKENBACH, ESQUIRE For Plaintiff/Counter-Defendant: ATTERBURY, GOLDBERGER & WEISS, P.A. By JACK A. GOLDBERGER, ESQUIRE For Defendants/Counter-Plaintiffs: SEARCY, DENNEY, SCAROLA, BARNHART & SHIPLEY, P.A. By JACK SCAROLA, ESQUIRE For Fowler White: CARLTON FIELDS, PA By JOSEPH IANNO, JR, ESQUIRE For L.M., E.W. and Jane Doe: S.J. QUINNEY COLLEGE OF LAW at the UNIVERSITY OF UTAH By PAUL G. CASSELL, ESQUIRE (Telephonically) ALSO PRESENT Above & Be ond Reprographics By Manuel Santiago, Videographer Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793513 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 16 of 165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 INDEX Videotaped Deposition of JEFFREY EPSTEIN Page No. Direct Examination by Mr. Scarola Certificate of Oath Certificate of Reporter Read & Sign Letter to Witness PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBIT INDEX (No exhibits were marked.) DEFENDANTS/COUNTER-PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT INDEX 5 83 84 85 No. Description Page No. 1 Sworn Declaration of Jeffrey Epstein 6 2 Affidavit of Jeffrey Epstein 40 3 Re-Notice of Taking Deposition 58 4 Re-Notice of Taking Deposition 62 Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793514 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 17 of 165 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are on the video record. This is the 13th day of October 2018. The time is approximately 9:07 a.m. This is the videotaped deposition of Jeffrey Epstein in the matter of Jeffrey Epstein versus Scott Rothstein, individually; Bradley Edwards, individually; L.M. individually. This deposition is being held at 1555 Palm Beach Lakes Boulevard, West Palm Beach, Florida 33401. My name is Manuel Santiago. I am the videographer representing Above & Beyond Reprographics. Will the attorneys please announce their appearances for the record? MR. SCAROLA: My name is Jack Scarola. I am counsel on behalf of Bradley Edwards. MR. LINK: Scott Link and Kara Rockenbach on behalf of Mr. Epstein. MR. GOLDBERGER: And Jack Goldberger on behalf of Jeffrey Epstein. MR. SCAROLA: On the phone we have Professor Paul Cassell. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793515 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 18 of 165 5 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. CASSELL: Can I just chime in here? Paul Cassell for L.M., E.W. and Jane Doe, intervenors in the Florida State court action. THEREUPON, JEFFREY EPSTEIN, being a witness in the notice heretofore filed, and being first duly sworn in the above cause, testified on his oath as follows: THE WITNESS: Yes. DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Would you please state your full name? A Jeffrey E. Epstein. Q Would you list for us, please, each of your residence addresses? MR. GOLDBERGER: I think it's beyond the scope. I'm going to object to Fifth Amendment. You want him to invoke or you okay with me doing it? MR. SCAROLA: We want Mr. Epstein to invoke any privilege that Mr. Epstein considers appropriate to invoke. THE WITNESS: The Fifth. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793516 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 19 of 165 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. SCAROLA: Q I'm sorry? A The Fifth. Q You are the same Jeffrey Epstein that is a party in the current state court proceedings in which Bradley Edwards has brought suit against you for malicious prosecution, correct? A Correct. Q Mr. Epstein, I'm going to hand you what I have marked as Exhibit Number 1 to this deposition. Ask you to take a look at that document. MR. SCAROLA: Paul, this is Mr. Epstein's sworn declaration of fact that was filed in the bankruptcy court proceeding. MR. CASSELL: I am familiar with that. Thank you, Jack. (Defendants/Counter-Plaintiffs' Exhibit Number 1 was marked for identification.) BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Do you recognize the document, Mr. Epstein? A Yes. Q Is that, in fact, your signature above the line that says Jeffrey Epstein? A Yes. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793517 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 20 of 165 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q There is a signature to the left of yours at the bottom of the document. Whose signature is that? A I don't know. Q Who were the attorneys who were representing you at the time that this declaration was prepared on August 14, 2018? MR. LINK: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: Could you ask the question again? BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Yes, sir. Who were the lawyers who were representing you in this matter on August 14, 2018? THE WITNESS: Scott Link. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Anyone else? A Jack Goldberg. Q Anyone else? A Darren Indyke. Q Anyone else? A Not that I recall. Q Who prepared this declaration? A I believe the Link firm. Q Was it sent to you initially in the form in which it presently appears? Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793518 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 21 of 165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A I don't recall. Q Do you have any recollection whatsoever of having any input into the content of this declaration? MR. LINK: So, Mr. Epstein, I just want to caution you. I don't want you to share any of our communications or conversations. Okay. You can answer the question without disclosing anything we have talked about. THE WITNESS: No. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q You had no input? A I don't have anything separate from my attorneys. Any input I have is with conversations with my attorneys. Q That's not my question. I have not asked you whether you received any information from your attorneys. I asked you whether you had any input into the content of this declaration. MR. LINK: Again, I am going to instruct you not to disclose any of our conversations and communications. You can simply answer yes or no to the question. If you remember it, then you can. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793519 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 22 of 165 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 THE WITNESS: Sorry. So I'm clear, the conversations I had with you about this -- MR. LINK: We are not going to talk about. THE WITNESS: So is that an answer of yes or no? MR. LINK: If the question is, do you recall whether you made any changes to what was sent to you, I think you can answer yes or no. MR. SCAROLA: That's not the question. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q I want to know whether you had any input whatsoever into the drafting of this declaration. Was any of the information contained in this declaration -- included in the declaration as a consequence of input that you personally had? Or was it simply all drafted by somebody else for your signature? MR. LINK: So, if you can answer that question without disclosing our communications, you can answer the question. If you can't answer it without disclosing our communication, Mr. Epstein, then you are instructed not to answer it. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793520 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 23 of 165 10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Your answer to the question, sir? A I can't disclose anything -- I have only had a conversation with my attorney regarding this. Q Yes, sir. But my question does not ask you about any communication you had with your lawyers. I am asking you whether you had any input into the language that is included within this declaration. Is anything here your -- the consequence of your input? MR. LINK: So, let me just -- I have two questions for you, Mr. Scarola. One, I thought we were starting with the state court matter. MR. SCAROLA: We are. MR. LINK: I may have misunderstood, because this is a bankruptcy declaration. And there isn't anything in Judge Hafele's order that talks about bankruptcy testimony or spoke that you can inquire about. Obviously, by signing this, he has adopted every statement in there as his own. So I'm not sure what we are doing at the moment. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793521 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 24 of 165 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Can you answer the question, sir? A I cannot answer the question. Q Why? A Anything I talked about with respect to this document is a conversation with my attorneys. Q And I'm not asking about any communication you had with your lawyer. I want to know whether anything in this affidavit is as a consequence of your personal input. MR. LINK: So, if there was anything you did separate and apart from our conversations, then you can tell him. If not -- THE WITNESS: No. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q No what? A No. Q Nothing in this affidavit was as a result of your personal input; is that correct? MR. LINK: What he said was separate and apart. My instruction is, you may not disclose any of our communications. If you can answer the question about something you did Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793522 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 25 of 165 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 separate and apart from my directions to you or our communications, you can answer the question. Other than that, you cannot. MR. SCAROLA: Mr. Link, communications with counsel are privileged if they are intended to remain confidential. If Mr. Epstein communicated something to you to include within this affidavit, that, obviously, was not intended to remain confidential. It was intended to be communicated in this particular filing. MR. LINK: Mr. Scarola, I disagree with you. I'm instructing him not to answer if it's based on our communications period. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q The second paragraph of this affidavit says, "The law firm of Fowler White Burnett, PA, represented me" -- meaning you -- "in the state court proceeding from June 2010 through May 2012." What were the terms on which you retained the Fowler White Burnett law firm? MR. LINK: Mr. Scarola, you are exceeding the scope of the deposition in the state court matter. There are four very specific limited Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793523 3. 2 3 4 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 26 of 165 topics, none of which have you asked a single question about. I'm really trying to understand what -- Do you want to do the bankruptcy first? 5 MR. SCAROLA: No. No, sir. I want to 6 do the state court proceeding first. I'm 7 asking questions that relate directly to the 8 topics that are defined within the state 9 court order and I would like an answer to 10 that question. 11 MR. LINK: Would you please tell me 12 which topic you are focused on? There are 13 only four. 14 MR. SCAROLA: This relates to all of 15 them. 16 MR. LINK: It does not, Mr. Scarola. 17 MR. SCAROLA: We have a disagreement 18 about that. If you are instructing him not 19 to answer, then the court will make a 20 determination as to whether that is or is 21 not an appropriate instruction and whether 22 we will or will not be back here to redepose 23 Mr. Epstein once again. 24 Are you instructing him to the answer? 25 MR. LINK: Your question is what were Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793524 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 27 of 165 1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the terms of his engagement of Fowler White? MR. SCAROLA: Yes, that's correct. MR. LINK: Then I'm instructing him not to answer. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Did you engage Fowler White on an hourly basis? MR. LINK: I am instructing him not to answer. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Did Fowler White present invoices to you for services that were rendered on an hourly basis? MR. LINK: I am instructing him not to answer. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Were you ever billed by Fowler White with invoices that included a description of the services that Fowler White rendered on your behalf? MR. LINK: I am instructing him not to answer. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Were you kept informed as to what Fowler White did on your behalf in connection with their representation of you? MR. LINK: I'm instructing him not to Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793525 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 28 of 165 15 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 answer. It exceeds the scope of the court's order. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Your affidavit -- excuse me. Your declaration states that as part of Fowler White's representation of you, that they represented you in proceedings in the bankruptcy case concerning a subpoena that your original counsel issued to the bankruptcy trustee. Is that statement true? A Yes. Q Who was your original counsel that issued the subpoena to the bankruptcy trustee? A I don't recall. Q What was subpoenaed? A The question again. Q What was subpoenaed? A I don't recall. Q Were emails subpoenaed? A I'm not sure what subpoena you are talking about. Sorry. Q The one that you declared under penalty of perjury was issued by your original counsel to the bankruptcy trustee. A I don't recall. Q Did you ever come to learn that the trustee Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793526 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 29 of 165 16 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 in the bankruptcy for the law firm Rothstein, Rosenfeldt & Adler had been subpoenaed to produce emails contained on the server of that law firm? A I don't recall. Q Did it ever come to your attention that emails contained on the server of the law firm Rothstein, Rosenfeldt & Adler had been produced in connection with the state court civil proceedings by the bankruptcy trustee to a special master that had been appointed for purposes of determining what, if any, emails from that production would be turned over in response to the subpoena that was issued? A Separate from any conversations with my attorney, I don't recall. Q Did you ever learn that privilege was being asserted with respect to the production of any emails that were contained on a Rothstein, Rosenfeldt, Adler server? A Separate from a conversation with my attorneys, I don't recall. Q Are you aware, as you sit here today, that federal bankruptcy Judge Ray issued an order with respect to procedures to be followed in connection with responding to an email subpoena? MR. LINK: Object to the form. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793527 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 30 of 165 17 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. SCAROLA: What's the problem with the form? MR. LINK: You didn't give us any time. Is there more than one? MR. SCAROLA: No, I did. I said as you sit here today. MR. LINK: No, as to the order. But -- If you can answer the question, you can answer question. THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. You have to repeat it. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Yes. As you sit here today, are you aware that federal bankruptcy Judge Ray issued an order concerning matters relating to the production of Rothstein, Rosenfeldt, Adler emails? MR. LINK: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: Outside conversations with my attorney, no. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Have you ever seen an order issued by federal bankruptcy Judge Ray that impose restrictions on the possession of electronic data produced in response to a subpoena for emails from the Rothstein, Rosenfeldt, Adler law firm? Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793528 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 31 of 165 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. LINK: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: Outside of conversations with my attorney, no. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Tell me about the conversations that you had with your lawyers relating to the terms of Judge Ray's order. MR. LINK: I am going to instruct you not to answer that question. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Have you ever personally seen any of the language that was included within Judge Ray's order? A Outside of the conversations with my attorney, no. Q Well, a conversation with your lawyer does not tell me anything in response to a question that asks what you have seen. Have you ever seen any of the language included within Judge Ray's order that impose restrictions on the possession of electronic data relating to emails of the Rothstein, Rosenfeldt, Adler firm? MR. LINK: So let me object to the form. If you can answer the question Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793529 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 32 of 165 19 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 independent of communications with your lawyer -- so if you looked at the order on your own, then you can answer. THE WITNESS: I don't recall. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Are you aware that contempt proceedings are pending in the federal bankruptcy court? A Yes. Q What is your understanding of what those proceedings are about? A It's in regards to the discovery of a disc that was in possession of Fowler White. Q What is it in regard to that disc? A That's not a very good question. Sorry. Q I'm sorry? A Can you ask a question? Q The question is, what is it about this disc that is the subject matter of contempt proceedings in the bankruptcy court? MR. LINK: So, again, if you can answer the question based on your own personal review of information rather than our communications, you can share that with Mr. Scarola. THE WITNESS: Nothing outside my Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793530 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 33 of 165 20 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 conversations with the attorney. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Did you ever become aware that a subpoena was issued to the bankruptcy trustee to produce emails? A I don't recall. Q Did you ever become aware that a claim of privilege was asserted with regard to any of the emails on the Rothstein, Rosenfeldt, Adler server? A Outside of conversations with my attorney, no. Q Did your lawyer tell you that a claim of privilege had been made with regard to any of the emails on the RRA server? MR. LINK: Mr. Scarola, you know better than to ask that question. Mr. Epstein, do not answer that question. MR. SCAROLA: Mr. Link, those happen to be matters as to which privilege is waived as a consequence of your own disclosures in your own affidavits and your own statements with respect to this case. MR. LINK: I disagree with you. MR. SCAROLA: That's fine. MR. LINK: I'm going to instruct you Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793531 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 34 of 165 21 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 not to answer. MR. SCAROLA: Just as long as you know that it is our position that there has been a waiver. You can instruct the witness not to answer and the court will make a determination with regard to that legal issue. MR. LINK: There's no question. And I will say this, for the record. You haven't asked a single question about the four topics that Judge Hafele specifically delineated for this limited deposition you could take. But I am instructing you not to answer the question, Mr. Epstein. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Paragraph four of your declaration, Exhibit Number 1, states, "In February 2018, Scott J. Link of Link & Rockenbach, PA, informed me that he had located a disc in Fowler White's files labeled," quote, Epstein Bate Stamp, unquote. Did I read that accurately? A Correct. Q That was a communication from Mr. Link, your lawyer, to you, correct? Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793532 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 35 of 165 22 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Yes. Q What else did Mr. Link tell you? MR. LINK: So, I'm going to instruct you not to disclose any of your conversations that involved legal advice or strategy or protected communication. If you recall that I said anything other than I located a disc specific to that topic, you can answer. THE WITNESS: I remember that. Everything else I talked with my attorneys. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Yes, I know you were talking to your lawyer. I want to know everything that your lawyer told you in this conversation that you have partially disclosed. MR. LINK: So -- BY MR. SCAROLA: Q What else did he tell you? MR. LINK: So, I'm going to instruct you not to answer based both on attorney-client privilege and exceeds the scope of Judge Hafele's order. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Your response? MR. LINK: I have instructed him not to Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793533 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 36 of 165 23 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 answer. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q When in February of 2018 did you have this communication with Mr. Link? A I don't recall specifically. Q What was the form of the communication? A I don't recall specifically. Q When you tell me you don't recall specifically, that suggest that you may recall generally. What is your recollection with regard to the form that the communication took? A It's not specifically -- I believe it was a phone call. But that's my best recollection. Q Where were you when you received that phone call? A No idea. Q Did Mr. Link tell you why he was calling to tell you that he had located a disc? MR. LINK: Mr. Epstein, I am going to instruct you not to answer the question. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Did Mr. Link tell you what was on the disc? MR. LINK: I'm going to instruct you not to answer. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793534 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 37 of 165 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Did Mr. Link communicate to you at any time anything regarding the content of a disc that had been located in Fowler White's files? MR. LINK: I am going to instruct you not to answer. MR. SCAROLA: The basis of that instruction? MR. LINK: Attorney-client privilege and exceeds scope of Judge Hafele's order. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Had you known prior to Mr. Link's communication with you in February of 2018 that Fowler White had come into possession of a disc relating to anything having to do with the litigation in which you were involved? MR. LINK: Can you read the first part? Did he say if or did you? I'm sorry, I missed the first words. (Thereupon, the requested portion of the record was read back by the reporter as above duly recorded.) MR. LINK: I'm going to object to form. THE WITNESS: No. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793535 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 38 of 165 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. SCAROLA: Q How was it that you remember that? A I'm sorry. The question again. Q How is it that you can tell us under oath today that you had no prior knowledge of Fowler White having come into possession of a disc relating to your litigation? A So, to be clear, to the best of my recollection today, the answer is no. I have no recollection whatsoever. Q So the answer is not no. The answer is I don't remember. Is that correct? MR. LINK: No. That's not what he said. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Well, I want to know. Are you telling us, no, you didn't know; or are you telling us, I don't remember whether I knew or not? A My best recollection is no. I can't be certain of anything, frankly. So the answer is -- with respect to most questions, my answer is no. But I can't be certain that someone hadn't told me something years ago. I have no recollection. I would say no. Q Paragraph five of this declaration says, "I have no personnel knowledge of how the CD came to be in Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793536 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 39 of 165 26 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Fowler White's possession." Do you have any knowledge that, in fact, it did come to be in Fowler White's possession? MR. LINK: So, you can -- other than our communications, you can answer the question. THE WITNESS: It's only through communications with my attorney. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q So Mr. Link told you that he got the disc from Fowler White; is that correct? MR. LINK: You can answer that question. THE WITNESS: Correct. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Did he tell you when he got it from Fowler White? MR. LINK: If you remember, you can answer that question. THE WITNESS: Sometime in February. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Are you aware that William Berger was deposed in the state court civil proceeding? A I don't recall. Q Do you know who William Berger is? Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793537 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 40 of 165 27 1 2 3 4 S 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A No, sir. Q Do you recall a former Palm Beach County circuit court judge having been involved as co-counsel in the prosecution of molestation claims against you by the Rothstein, Rosenfeldt, Adler firm? THE WITNESS: Is this part of today's -- MR. LINK: If you remember that there was a -- THE WITNESS: I do not remember. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q At the time that you had the communication with Mr. Link sometime in February of 2018, did Mr. Link discuss any of the data that was included on the disc that he was informing you about? MR. LINK: Mr. Epstein, I am going to instruct you not to answer. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Have you ever received any documents that were represented to have been included on that disc? MR. LINK: Object to the form. If you can answer that question without disclosing our communications you can answer it. THE WITNESS: Anything I received, I Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793538 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 41 of 165 28 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 received from my attorneys. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Yes. And I want to know whether you ever received any of -- any documents that were represented to you to have been printed from data on the disc that Mr. Link told you about in February of 2018. MR. LINK: So, again, without disclosing our communications, you can simply tell him whether you were provided generally any documents, without disclosing any specific documents or our communications. THE WITNESS: I don't believe so. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q What specific documents that originated on the disc did you receive? MR. LINK: So, I'm going to instruct you not to answer that question based on attorney-client and work product. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q How many documents did you receive? MR. LINK: That question you can answer, if you remember. THE WITNESS: I don't remember. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793539 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 42 of 165 29 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Can you characterize in any way the volume of documents that you received that you understood originated on the disc? A I don't recall. Q Was it more than one? A Probably. Q Was it more than two? A Probably. Q Was it more than three? A I don't know what you mean by documents. Are you talking about pages? Q Yes. Let's be very specific. Did you receive more than three pages that you understood to have been printed out from the disc? MR. LINK: Let me think about the question for a minute. You can answer that question. THE WITNESS: Yes. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Was it more than 10? A I would say less than 100, so we don't have to go through numbers. Q That does indeed save us some time. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793540 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 43 of 165 30 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Was it more than 50? A I don't recall. Q Was it probably more than 50? A I don't recall. Q So the best you are able to tell us is that it was, more likely than not, more than three and less than 100 pages, and you can't narrow it down any further than that; is that correct? A Correct. Q How did you receive those pages? A I don't recall. Q Were they electronically transmitted to you? A I don't recall. Q Do you have any recollection of ever having received hard copies of documents generated from the disc? MR. LINK: Object to the form. You are talking about from me? MR. SCAROLA: No, I didn't ask that. THE WITNESS: Anything separate my attorneys, nothing. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Pardon me? A Anything separate from the attorneys, nothing. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793541 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 44 of 165 31 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q Okay. Well, that's not my question. A Okay. Q Did you ever receive from anyone any hard copies of pages that you understood to be generated from the disc? MR. LINK: Okay. So, I am going to object to the form. There are thousands of pages that have been produced in this case from the disc. So that general generic MR. SCAROLA: Mr. Link, that's not a legal objection. If you have a legal objection, please state it. Anything other than that is nothing more than an attempt to coach the witness. MR. LINK: It's not. It's an objection to the form. MR. SCAROLA: That's fine. I understand. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Could you answer the question, please? A Could you repeat it? Q Yes, sir. Did you ever receive any hard copies of documents -- pages that you understood to have been Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793542 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 45 of 165 32 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 generated from the disc? A Yes. Q On how many separate occasions did you receive pages in hard copy form that you understood to have been generated from the disc? A I would say less than 20. Q Twenty occasions? A Less than 20. Q Let's go through each of those that you can remember and tell me about those occasions on which you recall having received hard copies of pages, which you understood to have been generated from the disc. A Have you asked a question? Q Pardon me? A Have you asked a question? Q Yes. A What's the question? Q I want you to tell me about each of the occasions -- we will start with the first one, chronologically, when you received hard copies of pages that you understood to have been generated from the Fowler White disc that Mr. Link told you about in February of 2018. MR. LINK: Okay, you can answer that specific question. It's a different Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793543 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 46 of 165 33 1 2 3 4 S 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 question. THE WITNESS: Sometime in February I was handed, from my attorneys, some documents. Is what I recall. Some documents from my attorneys. I was handed some documents. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Who specifically handed you those documents? A Darren Indyke. Q Where were you? A I believe in New York. I can't be certain. Q How many pages did Mr. Indyke hand you on that occasion? A Less than 100. Q Were those pages accompanied by any cover letter? A Not that I recall. Q Were they accompanied by any summary of the contents? A Not that I recall. Q Were they accompanied by any index? A Not that I recall. Q What did Mr. Indyke tell you about the documents when he gave him to you? MR. LINK: I'm going to instruct you Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793544 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 47 of 165 34 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 not to answer that question based on attorney-client privilege. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q What did you do with the documents when you received them? A I read them, to the best of my recollection. Q Did you read them in their entirety? A I don't recall. Q What did the documents say? Let me withdrew that question. If you were asked to recount the content of the documents, as you sit here today, would you be able to describe the contents of the documents? A Some of them, I think. Q Approximately, how many documents are there as to which you have the ability, as you sit here today, to describe the contents? A When you say documents, you mean pages? I'm sorry? Q Yes, sir. Pages. A Well, I can remember the emails with respect to Brad Edwards -- Q Excuse me. Pardon me. I'm stopping you, sir. That's no responsive to my question. And I don't want you on this record to be disclosing the content of Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793545 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 48 of 165 35 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 any privileged documents. My question is not to ask you to describe the content of those privileged documents, but to tell us how many pages of privileged material you have retained a recollection of that would enable you to describe that content as you sit here today. So how many pages? MR. LINK: You can answer that question. I want to note for the record that you have made an assertion of privilege. We have challenged that privilege. And no court has ever made a determination that they are, in fact, privileged. With that statement, you can answer the question, if you can. THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. Can you repeat the question? BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Yes, sir. As you sit here today, how many pages of the documents that you received from Mr. Indyke something less than 100 documents -- A Yes. Q -- would you be able to describe the contents Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793546 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 49 of 165 36 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 of? A Again, I could describe the contents in detail on some that I remember. I have generalizations on others. Q Let's break it down into two categories. How many pages could you describe the contents of in detail? A Less than 10. Q And how many pages could you describe the contents of generally? A Probably at least another 20. Q Are you aware that a claim of privilege has been asserted with regard to any of the documents that you received from Darren Indyke? MR. LINK: So, again, if you have independent knowledge, separate and apart from communications with your lawyers, you can answer the question. THE WITNESS: I have no independent knowledge. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Are you aware that a claim of privilege has been asserted with regard to any of the documents or pages that you received from Darren Indyke? MR. LINK: Same instruction, Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793547 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 50 of 165 37 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Mr. Epstein. THE WITNESS: Outside of conversations with my attorney, no. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Regardless of where you received the information from, are you aware that a claim of privilege has been asserted with regard to any of those documents? MR. LINK: So, Mr. Epstein, the source of information is important. If the sources of information are our communications or communications with your lawyers, I do not want you to disclose that. If you have independent information you have read something, you have seen something outside of our communications -- you answer the question. THE WITNESS: I have no independent knowledge. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Do you have knowledge that you derived from your lawyers? MR. LINK: Generally or about the topic? MR. SCAROLA: About that specific Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793548 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 51 of 165 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 topic, the assertion of privilege with regard to any documents. MR. LINK: We are not going to disclose any topics or anything that we talked about. I am instructing you not to answer. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Have you ever seen a privilege log that listed any of the documents that you received from Mr. Indyke on that log? A I don't recall. Q Where did Mr. Indyke get the documents that he delivered to you? A I don't know. Q How do you know that the documents Darren Indyke delivered to you were documents that originated on the disc? A Outside of -- I have no independent knowledge. Q So that's information you received from your lawyers? A I have no independent knowledge. Q That's not my question. Is that information you received from your lawyers? So they told you that the documents that you received from Darren Indyke came from the Fowler Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793549 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 52 of 165 3 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 White disc, correct? MR. LINK: I do not want you to disclose your communications with your lawyers. I am going to instruct you not to disclose any information. If you can answer any of his questions based on your independent knowledge or reviewed independently from discussion with your lawyers you can answer the question. THE WITNESS: I have no independent knowledge. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Have you ever reviewed the transcripts of any hearings that were held either in the circuit court, in the bankruptcy proceeding, or before Special Master Carney with regard the production of emails? A I don't recall. Q I am going to hand you what I will mark as Exhibit Number 2 to your deposition. It is an affidavit that purports to have been signed by you and filed in the circuit court proceedings in Palm Beach County. I would like you to take a look at that, please. Tell me if you recognize that document. (Defendants/Counter-Plaintiffs's Exhibit Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793550 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 53 of 165 40 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Number 2 was marked for identification.) MR. LINK: Mr. Scarola, do you have a copy for me? MR. SCAROLA: That's the only one I have. THE WITNESS: Okay. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Is that your signature on that affidavit? A Yes. Q Did you, in fact, swear to the contents of that document? A Yes, sir. Q You had told us there were something less than 20 occasions in which you received documents that had been originally contained on the Fowler White disc. You told us about one of those occasions when Mr. Indyke handed you documents. What others do you remember? MR. LINK: Object to the form. That was not his testimony. That was the second question that you asked. The first question, I believe, was general, as I made a statement thousands of documents were produced. MR. SCAROLA: Is this the legal Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793551 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 54 of 165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 objection that you are making, Mr. Link? MR. LINK: It is, Mr. Scarola. MR. SCAROLA: Then please state the legal basis of your objection, and don't attempt to coach the witness. MR. LINK: I'm not coaching the witness. I'm correcting your misstatement. MR. SCAROLA: That's fine. Your objection is there is no proper predicate for the question. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Can you answer the question please? MR. LINK: Mr. Scarola, I am going to finish, please, my objection, although, you did a good job of disrupting my thought, because I was on a roll there. But in any event, your question -- object to the form. It mistakes your prior question and the witness's prior testimony. THE WITNESS: Sorry. Could you ask it again? BY MR. SCAROLA: Q How many other times -- or tell us about the other times that you received information generated from the Fowler White disc. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793552 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 55 of 165 42 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A I don't have any specific recollection today. Q Can you give us any better estimate as to the number of times you received information from the Fowler White disc other than that it was less than 20? A No. Q What did you do with the documents that you received that you understood to have been generated from the Fowler White disc? MR. LINK: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. I don't fully understand the question. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q What did you do with the documents that Mr. Indyke gave you, which you understood to have been generated from the Fowler White disc? A I read them. Q And what did you do with them after you read them? A I left them on my desk. Q Which desk? A I don't remember exactly. I believe New York, as I said before. Q What happened to those documents after you left them on your desk? A After being informed by my counsel, I Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793553 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 56 of 165 43 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 destroyed them. Q How? A In a shredder. Q When? A The same day. Q The same day that you received them from Mr. Indyke? A The same day I was informed by Counsel to destroy them. Q And when was that? A Some time after February. Q When in relation to having received them from Mr. Indyke? A Sometime -- right after the court -- Indyke was in February. As soon as the court ordered me to destroy them, I destroyed them. Q Did you ever communicate with anyone regarding the contents of those documents? A Separate from my attorneys, I don't remember anybody else. Q Which lawyers did you communicate with about the content of the documents? A Scott Link, Darren, Jack. Q Anyone else? A Not that I recall. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793554 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 57 of 165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q Was there anyone else at all at any time under any circumstance that you discussed the contents of the documents with? A I don't recall anybody except my attorneys. Q Did you have any communication with Bradley Edwards regarding the content of those documents? A I don't recall. Q Since receiving those documents, did you have any communication with Bradley Edwards at all about anything? A I don't recall. Q When you read the documents that you received from Mr. Indyke, did you learn anything that you had not previously known? A Yes. Q As you sit here today, would you be able to identify those things that you learned for the first time from among the documents that Mr. Indyke delivered to you? A I'm sure I can remember some of them. Q Was there anything in those documents that you already knew that was not being disclosed to you for the first time upon delivery of those documents to you? A I don't recall. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793555 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 58 of 165 45 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q We have marked as Exhibit Number 2 an affidavit, which you acknowledged to have been signed by you. Have you had a chance to read through that? A Yes, sir. Q You agree that there is nothing in this affidavit that relates to the content of any emails, correct? A I'm sorry. Which emails? Q The emails that you received from Darren Indyke. Let's establish that. The pages that you received from Darren Indyke were printouts of emails, were they not? A I believe some of them were. Q What else was in there besides email printouts? MR. LINK: You can say generally, if you remember, without describing what was provided to you. THE WITNESS: My best recollection is emails. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q So you have no recollection of there being anything other than emails in the documents that you received from Mr. Indyke, correct? Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793556 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 59 of 165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A I believe so. Could you ask that question again? You asked me a question. Sorry. MR. LINK: I don't think there's any pending -- MR. SCAROLA: I don't think there's a pending question. There's about to be. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q You understood that the purpose of Exhibit Number 2, your affidavit, was to describe all of the information that you relied upon in deciding to sue Bradley Edwards, correct? A No, sir. Q What was the purpose of this affidavit? A It was a general -- it did not fully encompass everything I might have seen prior to signing it. It was a general affidavit. Q I'm sorry. A It was a general discussion. It didn't list anything I had actually seen before signing this affidavit. Q So the affidavit does not include anything that you actually saw before signing the affidavit; is that correct? A I don't believe with any specificity, sir. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793557 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 60 of 165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q What does that answer mean? I don't understand that. A I might have seen things that are not in this affidavit. Q All right. So what is it that you saw before signing this affidavit that related to your having had a good faith basis for filing the action against Bradley Edwards and Scott Rothstein in December of 2009? MR. LINK: Mr. Epstein, I am going to instruct you not to answer the question. It far exceeds the scope of the deposition that was authorized by Judge Hafele. This is not a discovery deposition related to the case. Please do not answer the question. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Was there any information contained within the emails that form part of your alleged good faith basis for suing Bradley Edwards? MR. LINK: Object to the form. You can answer the question. THE WITNESS: Reading the emails in the Darren Indyke documents confirmed everything that was in this affidavit. Yes, sir. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793558 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 61 of 165 48 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Was there any information contained within the emails that formed part of your good faith basis for suing Bradley Edwards? MR. LINK: Again, I am going to instruct you not answer that question. It exceeds the scope of the court's order. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Are you aware of the specific scope of the inquiry that Judge Hafele permitted during the course of this deposition? Did you ever see his order that outlined what you were allowed to be asked about? A Yes. Q You are aware that topic number one was whether and to what extent Epstein reviewed any of the alleged privileged materials prior to March of 2018, correct? THE WITNESS: Is that what it says? MR. LINK: That's what it says. THE WITNESS: Yes. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Did you review any of the allegedly privileged materials prior to March 2018? A That's a very general category. Which Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793559 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 62 of 165 49 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 privilege materials? It's 27,000 emails, so you are going to have to be specific. Q Well, when you were preparing for this deposition, did you find out which of those 27,000 emails were alleged to be privileged? A No. Q So as you sit here today, you are incapable of telling us whether you reviewed any of the alleged privileged materials prior to March 2018, because you have no idea what materials are alleged to be privileged. Is that what you're telling us? MR. LINK: Object to the form. That it is not what he said. THE WITNESS: I have recollection of reading some of the emails. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q So did you review any of the allegedly privileged materials prior to March 2018? A Again, I understand alleged privileged materials encompass 27,000 emails, so I don't understand your question. Q I want to know whether you reviewed any of -- any email, which is alleged to have been privileged at any time before March of 2018. MR. LINK: Object to the form. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793560 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 63 of 165 50 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 THE WITNESS: Yes. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q How many emails alleged to have been privileged did you review prior to March of 2018? A Again, your question. MR. SCAROLA: Read it back, please. (Thereupon, the requested portion of the record was read back by the reporter as above duly recorded.) THE WITNESS: Can you tell me how many emails have been alleged to be privileged, so we are talking about something -- BY MR. SCAROLA: Q I want to know which emails you reviewed, which you believed to have been alleged to be privileged, prior to March of 2018. MR. LINK: That's a different question You can -- if you understand, the question you can answer that. THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. I didn't ask it again, please. MR. SCAROLA: Please read it back. MR. LINK: Jack, do you mind if we try to clarify this so that we can move forward, because I think I understand what the Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793561 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 64 of 165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 difficulty is? MR. SCAROLA: I would like the question read back to see whether or not Mr. Epstein understands the question. MR. LINK: Okay. (Thereupon, the requested portion of the record was read back by the reporter as above duly recorded.) THE WITNESS: I still don't understand the question. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Pardon me? A I don't understand the question. Sorry. Q You are aware that there are emails which Bradley Edwards alleges to be privileged emails, correct? A I am aware that there -- I was told 27,000 emails alleged -- in some form to be privileged. Q Who told you that Bradley Edwards alleged 27,000 emails were privileged? MR. LINK: So, I don't want you to share our conversations or conversations with your lawyers. If you can answer that question from whatever documents -- independent review Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793562 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 65 of 165 52 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that the order or affidavit -- whatever you have seen related to the bankruptcy proceeding -- THE WITNESS: I don't believe I have any independent knowledge. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q You just said you were told that 27,000 emails were alleged to have been privileged. A Sorry. That's not that I said. I said MR. SCAROLA: Would you read back Mr. Epstein's answer, please? MR. LINK: Do you really not want to have a conversation to see if we can fix this confusion? MR. SCAROLA: I really don't want to. (Thereupon, the requested portion of the record was read back by the reporter as above duly recorded.) BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Who told you? A My attorneys. Q Which one? A I don't recall. Q When? A I don't recall. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793563 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 66 of 165 53 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q Was it before or after March of 2018? A Before. Q Was it before or after February of 2018? A I don't recall. Q What do you remember about that conversation? MR. LINK: Again, I don't want you to share the details of the conversation. MR. SCAROLA: He has already done that. He has already made an assertion of what he was told. That's a waiver of the privilege. I want to know about the conversation in it's entirety. MR. LINK: And I don't believe that it was a waiver of the privilege. He gave you non-privileged communication, and he's not going to share with you privileged communications. As you said earlier, every communication isn't privileged. But the discussion would have been. I have let you ask questions about dates and things of that nature that are not privileged, but I am going to instruct him not to answer your question. And again, I offered on the record to Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793564 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 67 of 165 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 discuss with you what I think the impediment is to these general questions, because there were alleged privileged emails that were produced in the litigation -- before my law firm was retained -- voluntarily by Mr. Edwards and his law firm, so that there had been in the record alleged privileged emails for years in this case. And you have not asked specific questions about the emails that were located by my law firm in February as to your questions. So I think your general questions about alleged privileged emails is not encompassed in what the court has asked or what we are here to talk about. And it's creating confusion, because there were many alleged privileged emails produced years ago. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Did Mr. Link tell you the things that he just stated on the record at some time prior to today? MR. LINK: You are not going to answer that question, Mr. Epstein. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Were you told at the time that Mr. Indyke gave you the less than 100 pages that he said were Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793565 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 68 of 165 55 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 contained on the disc, that an allegation was made that any of those pages were privileged? THE WITNESS: Can you repeat the question for me, please? (Thereupon, the requested portion of the record was read back by the reporter as above duly recorded.) MR. LINK: So if you can answer that general question because the source of information was from somebody other than Mr. Indyke and or your lawyers, then you can answer it. THE WITNESS: I cannot answer it separate from that. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Did your lawyers, including Mr. Indyke, tell you when they handed over those pages to you that there's an allegation that these pages contain privileged material? MR. LINK: I am going to instruct you not to answer it. Do you mind if we take a break? THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the record at 10:15 a.m. (A recess was had.) Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793566 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 69 of 165 56 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Going back on the record. The time is 10:26 a.m. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Have you ever communicated with any agent of Fowler White about the disc that was turned over by them to Link & Rockenbach? A No. Not to the best of my knowledge. Q Have you ever communicated with Tonja or Fred Haddad about the Fowler White disc? A Not to the best of my knowledge. Q Did you ever receive a copy of the disc itself? A No. Q Do I understand correctly that you don't recall whether any information contained on disc was transmitted to you electronically? Is that correct? MR. LINK: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: We are only talking about recently, I take it, right? I don't know what information was contained entirely on the disc. I have never seen the disc. I can't give you an answer in terms of what came off the disc in the past 10 years. Can you ask a better question? I'm Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793567 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 70 of 165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 sorry. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q The information you received from Mr. Indyke, you were told, was information that originated on the Fowler White disc, correct? MR. LINK: I don't want you to disclose any communications with your lawyers, but THE WITNESS: That is my belief. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Do you have a specific recollection that that information was conveyed to you in hard copy as opposed to having been sent to you electronically? A Correct. Q Were there any electronic communications that took place at any time that included any information derived from the disc? MR. LINK: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: It's a bad question. I don't have a time frame. I don't know what was -- came off the discs over the past eight years. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q At any time since the beginning of February 2017 -- 2018, was any information conveyed to you electronically, which, as you sit here today, you Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793568 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 71 of 165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 believe to have originated on the Fowler White disc? A I don't believe so. Q Have you had any electronic communications about the content of the Fowler White disc at any time since 2018? A With who? Q With anyone. A Outside of my attorneys, no. Q Have you had communications with your attorneys about information contained on the Fowler White discs since February of 2018? MR. LINK: I am going to instruct you not to answer that question. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q This deposition was noticed duces tecum. You know what that means, correct? A No. Sorry. Q You don't know. I'm going to hand you what we will mark as Exhibit Number 3. (Defendants/Counter-Plaintiffs' Exhibit Number 3 was marked for identification.) BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Can you take a look at it and tell me whether you have ever seen it before? Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793569 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 72 of 165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. SCAROLA: Paul, this is a copy of the Re-Notice of Taking Video Deposition Duces Tecum. MR. CASSELL: Thank you, Jack. MR. LINK: Let me know when you are finished. THE WITNESS: I'm finished. MR. LINK: So, Mr. Epstein, you can answer the question -- I don't want you to disclose our communication. But if the question that's asked have you seen physically that document, then you can answer that. But I don't want you to disclose our communications about it and anything we discussed. THE WITNESS: I have not seen it before. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Were you informed that you had an obligation to bring with you at the time of this deposition those items that are described on the second page of Exhibit Number 3, quote, All communications and all records relating to all communications concerning or containing information derived from documents or data over which a claim of privilege was asserted by or on behalf of Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793570 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 73 of 165 60 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Rothstein, Rosenfeldt, Adler PA; Farmer, Jaffe, Weissing, Edwards, Fistos & Lehrman, P.L.; or Bradley J. Edwards? MR. LINK: I think -- which subpoena duces tecum are you looking at, Jack? Which case? MR. SCAROLA: This is the subpoena duces tecum issued in the bankruptcy court proceedings. MR. LINK: So in the bankruptcy court proceeding, we filed an objection to the subpoena duces tecum, and you and your law firm never responded, so there are no documents being produced in the bankruptcy matter. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Do you have any documents that fit within the description that I just read? MR. LINK: You are not going to answer that question. MR. SCAROLA: And the basis for that? MR. LINK: I filed my objection and it has sat there for months and you didn't respond to it or move to compel it. I am not going to let him answer any questions Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793571 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 74 of 165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 about it. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Have you conducted any search of electronically retained data on any communication device or computer that you have used since March of excuse me since February of 2018 to determine whether there is stored on that device any communication or records relating to communications concerning or containing information derived from documents or data over which a claim of privilege has been asserted in these proceedings? MR. LINK: So, Mr. Epstein, I do not I am instructing you not to answer the question on the basis of both our assertion of an objection to the duces tecum that went unanswered in the federal court -- bankruptcy court. And secondly, it exceeds the scope of the deposition in the bankruptcy court, which was limited to asking you whether you had the disc or were aware of the disc that is subject to the bankruptcy proceeding before it was delivered -- before I located it. So I'm going to instruct you not to answer. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793572 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 75 of 165 62 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. SCAROLA: Q I am going to mark as Exhibit Number 4 the Re-Notice of Taking Video Deposition Duces Tecum in the circuit court proceedings. (Defendants/Counter-Plaintiffs' Exhibit Number 4 was marked for identification.) BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Hand that to you, sir, and ask you whether you have seen that before. MR. LINK: Again, you can answer that specific question. I don't want you to testify or disclose about our communications that relate to that exhibit, but you can answer his very specific question. THE WITNESS: No. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Were you aware that you had an obligation to bring with you at the time of this deposition all documents tending to establish whether and to what extent Epstein reviewed any of the alleged privileged materials prior to March 2018; whether and to what extent Epstein reviewed any of the alleged privileged materials after March 2018; whether Epstein has any knowledge regarding compliance with the court's verbal rulings on the record at the March 8th, 2018 hearing Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793573 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 76 of 165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 regarding destruction of those documents Edwards has claimed are privileged; whether and to what extent Epstein has shared any of the alleged privileged materials with anyone other than his attorneys, understanding that the documents are described as including, but not limited to all non-identical copies of writings, drawing, drafts, charts, photographs, phono-records, recordings, and/or any other data, compilations from which information can be obtained, translated, if necessary, by the party to whom the request is directed through detection devices into reasonably useable form? Documents also include all electronic data as well as application metadata and system metadata. All inventories and rosters of information technology systems, for example, hardware, software and data, including but not limited to network drawings, lists of computing devices, servers, PCs, laptops, PDAs, cell phones with data storage and/or transmission features, programs, data maps and security tools and protocols. MR. LINK: So, we filed a written response and objection to the request. We have asserted attorney-client privilege where appropriate. We identified where no Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793574 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 77 of 165 6 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 documents existed. We, in fact, produced the only responsive non-privileged documents. I will note for the record, Mr. Scarola, that we did all of that in advance of this deposition, even though we weren't required to do so by the Florida Rules of Civil Procedure that gave us 35 days, I believe, to do that with mailing, and that information and objections and documents have been produced. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Did you search the data storage of any cell phone that you used in order to make a determination as to whether any of those items described in this duces tecum exist? MR. LINK: I am going to instruct you not to answer. We have filed our written response to the subpoena duces tecum. As I just said, we did it in advance of deposition, even though we weren't required to under the Florida Rules of Civil Procedure, and we have produced all non-privileged documents. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793575 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 78 of 165 65 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. SCAROLA: Q And I am entitled to know whether any search was conducted in connection with this duces tecum. Would you answer that question, please? MR. LINK: I am going instruct you not to answer it. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Did you search any home computer or other device capable of electronically storing data to determine whether any documents exist within the scope of the request that I have just read? MR. LINK: I'm going to instruct you not to answer. Let the record reflect Mr. Epstein testified that he shredded the hard copies that he had. That's what he remembers receiving. We will stand by our written objections and production. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q As you sit here today, do you know whether there is any data on any electronic storage device that relates in any way to the content of the Fowler White disc? MR. LINK: Mr. Epstein, you can answer that specific question, but you may not Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793576 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 79 of 165 66 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 disclose any communications between you and your attorneys. MR. SCAROLA: That doesn't ask for any communications between Mr. Epstein and his lawyer. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q I would like to know whether, as you sit here today, you know whether there is any electronic data stored on any device to which you have access that contains any information derived from the Fowler White disc. A Since I'm not really sure what total information contained from the Fowler White disc of at least 27,000 emails -- and you referenced something as being derived from it -- I would not be able to have any recollection -- any way possible to search in any way to see if there's anything that's been derived from 27,000 emails. Q Do you have files on any electronic storage device that relate to this litigation? MR. LINK: Over the last 10 years? BY MR. SCAROLA: Q As you sit here today, do you know whether there is any electronic data on any electronic data storage device that relates to this litigation? Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793577 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 80 of 165 67 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. LINK: I am going to object to the form. It is not limited -- I am going to instruct you not the answer. It is unrelated to the bankruptcy proceeding and Judge Hafele's topics. If you want to try to narrow it, Mr. Scarola. I obviously communicated with Mr. Epstein, to this day, sometimes electronically. If you want to tie it in to the court's order, then we will see if he can answer it. MR. SCAROLA: My question stands. And he is instructed not to answer that question? MR. LINK: Yes, sir. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Thank you. Mr. Epstein, have you made any effort to determine whether there is anything on any electronic storage device to which you have access, which information was generated since February of 2018 relating to the contents of the Fowler White disc? MR. LINK: I am going to instruct you not to answer. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793578 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 81 of 165 68 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. SCAROLA: And the basis of that instruction? MR. LINK: It exceeds the scope of the deposition of bankruptcy proceeding and Judge Hafele's specific order and our objections that we filed in the circuit court and the bankruptcy court. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Are you aware of the entry of an order requiring that all information derived from the Fowler White discs be destroyed or purged? A You said derived from. I'm sorry. That's the problem I am having with your question. MR. LINK: Object to the form. Thank you. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Would you answer the question please? A I don't know what derived from means. I'm sorry. MR. LINK: As we have discussed, when you say the Fowler White disc, that a -- I'm assuming you mean the one that my law firm discovered. The disc generated thousands -- tens of thousands of pages that were produced in this litigation. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793579 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 82 of 165 69 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 These depositions -- this deposition we are here for today is limited by court order to the disc that I -- that my law firm located and received in February. MR. SCAROLA: That's the Fowler White disc, isn't it. MR. LINK: No. I don't know that it is. MR. SCAROLA: That's the question that I'm asking. The question I'm asking relates specifically to the Fowler White disc and whether Mr. Epstein is aware of the entry of an order that required the destruction or purging of all information alleged to be privileged derived from the Fowler White disc. MR. LINK: By definition we are now limiting that to the disc, which my office started reviewing on February 25th, 2018. If that's your clarification for all the questions, then let me hear the question again. THE WITNESS: I don't know what derived from a disc with untold amount of information on it means. Sorry. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793580 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 83 of 165 70 1 2 3 4 S 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. SCAROLA: Q I mean came from. A No. Q Data that came from the disc, printouts that came from the disc, information that came from the disc that was obtained from Fowler White and acquired, allegedly, sometime in February 2018 from Fowler White to Link & Rockenbach. Do you now understand the question, sir? A No. I don't not. MR. LINK: I don't either. Jack, are you asking him whether he as retained any of the allegedly privilege emails -- MR. SCAROLA: No. I was asking him whether he's aware of an order -- MR. LINK: Can I please finish, please? Are you asking him -- because the question has changed -- are you asking him has he retained any of the copies or electronic copies of the documents that are the subject of the bankruptcy proceeding that were located by my law firm from a disc that we started reviewing on February 25th, 2018? Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793581 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 84 of 165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I think that's a legitimate question, pursuant to both -- well, pursuant to Judge Hafele's order, not pursuant to the bankruptcy order. But your question hasn't been tailored that way. MR. SCAROLA: And that's because that's not the question I'm asking. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q I want to know whether you are aware of the entry of an order that restricted your possession of any information that was derived from the disc that Link & Rockenbach obtained from Fowler White in February of 2018. A The word derived -- any conversation that anybody had in any way attached to that information, I cannot answer that question. If you are asking me the question specifically -- you have to be more specific. Derived from -- I don't know what derive means. MR. LINK: It can encompass our conversations. THE WITNESS: It can encompass many conversations, and subjects not related to this hearing (sic). Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793582 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 85 of 165 72 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Are you aware of the entry of a court order that prohibited you from obtaining possession of any documents or electronic data that originated on the specific copy of the disc that had been in Fowler White's files and was turned over in copy form to Link & Rockenbach in February of 2018? MR. LINK: I object to the form. I don't think there's an order that says that. Do you have a court order you are referring to? THE WITNESS: May I see a court order? BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Are you aware of any court order restricting your possession of that information? A May I see the court order? Q No, sir. I want to know whether you are aware of any court order that restricted your possession of that information. A I don't know what that information you are referring to is. Q The information that was contained A Are you going to let me finish? MR. LINK: Let me -- let's take a pause. I think the problem we're having is Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793583 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 86 of 165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that the court order -- there's no court order that says he has to flush his memory. THE WITNESS: Excuse me. Is there a court order? MR. LINK: There is no court order that says what Mr. Scarola says. Mr. Epstein has already answered your question that he received documents and he shredded them when I instructed him of Judge Hafele's oral ruling on March 8th, 2018. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q What do you know about that March 8th, 2018 order? MR. LINK: Mr. Scarola -- Mr. Scarola, this is -- no reason to get aggressive and be upset. If there's an order that you have -- because what you have recited is not accurate. If you have an order, please show us. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Are you aware of an order entered by Judge Hafele in March of 2018 that related to the contents of the disc obtained from Fowler White's files? MR. LINK: Mr. Scarola, that is a misrepresentation. There was no order Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793584 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 87 of 165 74 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 entered. There was a verbal ruling, which we complied with and filed, I believe, at least two notices of compliance. So you are misstating what transpired in March of 2018 to this witness. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Are you aware of any verbal ruling whether Mr. Link chooses to characterize as an order or something other than an order -- relating to the retention of documents or data derived from the Fowler White disc that Link & Rockenbach obtained from the files of Fowler White? A I am going to take -- you will have -- again, if you choose your words more carefully, I would appreciate it. I don't know what derived from means. Q Is it derived that you don't understand the meaning of, or from that you don't understand the meaning of? A Derived from. MR. LINK: It includes our conversations, Mr. Scarola. That's the issue. MR. SCAROLA: Except that the question relates to documents or data. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793585 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 88 of 165 75 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Are you aware of the entry of an order or the issuance of a ruling or the pronouncement of any court that restricted retention of documents or electronic data that was obtained from -- A Thank you. Q -- the disc that Link & Rockenbach got from Fowler White's files? A Yes. Q What do you understand that ruling, order or direction to be? A I was to have destroyed my copies I had of those emails. Q Did you have any understanding as to whether that order, direction or ruling related to anything other than hard copies that you had? A Anything -- I believe anything I had. Q And that would include any electronic data that you had, correct? A I believe so. Q Did you make any effort whatsoever to determine whether you had any electronic data that fell within the scope of that ruling? A Yes. Q What did you do? Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793586 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 89 of 165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A I don't remember. Q Is whatever you did an action that you took personally or did it involve anyone else's efforts? A Separate from my attorneys, I don't believe so. Q Did you engage your attorneys to attempt to determine whether there was any electronic data that you had that fell within the scope of the court's ruling, direction or order? MR. LINK: I'm going to instruct you not -- A, I am going to object to the form. And I don't understand the question. But I am going to object to you discussing answering any question about what we discussed. MR. SCAROLA: I haven't asked what you discussed. I am trying find out whether anything was done to comply with the court's order, which Mr. Epstein has said he understood to include purging electronic data. MR. LINK: Then ask him -- MR. SCAROLA: If he said -- MR. LINK: Ask him, Did you have any data and you looked and you delete it, and Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793587 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 90 of 165 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 he will answer that question. Just like he said he shredded the hard copies. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Did you look for any electronic data? A I don't believe I had any. Q Did you look for any electronic data? A I don't believe I had any. Q Let me try a third time. A Okay. Q Did you look for any electronic data or did you assume, because you didn't think you had any, that there was no need to look? A I don't recall. Q Did you engage the services of anyone else to attempt to determine whether you had any electronic data that you understood you were not supposed to have? A Not to the best of my recollection. Q What devices do you have upon which electronic data could be stored? MR. LINK: I am going to object to the form and instruct you not to answer the question as framed. MR. SCAROLA: I have no further questions of Mr. Epstein subject to our ability to re-examine him with regard to all Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793588 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 91 of 165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 improper objections that have been raised, and with regard to items not produced that fall within the scope of the duces tecum of both notices. MR. LINK: So you have completed both the circuit court and the bankruptcy deposition? MR. SCAROLA: That is correct. MR. LINK: Mr. Cassell, do you have -- MR. SCAROLA: Actually, it is not correct. I'm telling you they are not completed -- MR. LINK: Subject to your reservations. MR. SCAROLA: Right. MR. LINK: I got that. Mr. Cassell, do you have questions for L.M. in the bankruptcy proceeding? MR. CASSELL: I do. MR. LINK: Okay. So I want the record to be clear, Mr. Cassell, that you do not have permission by the circuit court to ask any questions in the circuit court. The bankruptcy court has allowed you to ask questions on behalf of L.M., directed Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793589 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 92 of 165 79 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 only in the bankruptcy proceeding, and the -- my question is do you have questions about the bankruptcy proceeding that have not been asked by Mr. Scarola? MR. CASSELL: I do. MR. LINK: Okay. MR. CASSELL: And for the record, I would like to disagree with your assertion that we have been denied the opportunity to ask questions by the circuit court. It is our position that, by virtue of having intervened in that matter, and in particular with matters connected to those that are being discussed today, we have the right to ask questions. MR. LINK: There's actually a court order, Mr. Cassell, that gives Bradley Edwards permission to ask questions. There is no court order giving the intervenors the right to ask questions. So I want to be clear we have closed the circuit court proceeding, because the only party that had permission, pursuant to Judge Hafele's order to ask questions, was Mr. Edwards, and Mr. Scarola -- subject to Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793590 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 93 of 165 80 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 your reservations, Jack -- has finished his deposition of the circuit court. So we are now closing that matter and moving forward on the bankruptcy matter for additional questions by Mr. Cassell on behalf of L.M. and by Mr. Ianno on behalf of Fowler White. MR. SCAROLA: And it is our position on behalf of Brad Edwards that once an intervention has been granted and permission is given to take discovery in the proceeding to any party, every other party, including intervenors to that proceeding, have a right to participate in the discovery process. MR. LINK: We will see what Judge Hafele says. Mr. Ianno -- MR. IANNO: Well, I think what we need to do is do the read or waive and then just splice it and start -- not to continue it. We will just close it off entirely and have the videographer start a whole new file and the court reporter start a whole new file. MR. LINK: So, yes -- MR. CASSELL: Before we do that, I just Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793591 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 94 of 165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 need to ask two small things for the record. It will take about 30 seconds. First, I join in the statement that Mr. Scarola just made. And second, I would amplify that it was my understanding that Mr. Epstein understood he could have questions asked of him today through his attorneys -- and, of course, there's no court order permitting that -- just as a defendant in an action is allowed to ask questions during a deposition, such as this one, intervenors are allowed to ask questions, particularly where the subject matter at issues goes directly to the interest of the intervenors, which is the privacy of their own confidential information, which was the subject that I intended to ask questions about. MR. LINK: I understand. So we are going to not waive. We will read, please. And this closes the circuit court proceeding. We understand your objections, Mr. Cassell, and Mr. Scarola's reservations to go back before Judge Hafele. And if we are instructed to come back, we will come Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793592 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 95 of 165 82 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 back. THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the record. The time is 11 a.m. This marks the end of the deposition. - - - (The deposition was concluded at 11:00 a.m.) Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793593 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 96 of 165 83 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CERTIFICATE OF OATH STATE OF FLORIDA : SS COUNTY OF PALM BEACH ) I, the undersigned authority, certify that JEFFREY EPSTEIN personally appeared before me and was duly sworn. WITNESS my hand and official seal this 19th day of October, 2018. Sonja D. Hall Commission No.: GG 168652 Notary Public - State of Florida My Commission Expires: 2-01-22 Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793594 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 97 of 165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 REPORTER'S DEPOSITION CERTIFICATE STATE OF FLORIDA ) : SS COUNTY OF PALM BEACH ) I, SONJA D. HALL, certify that I was authorized to and did stenographically report the deposition of JEFFREY EPSTEIN; that a review of the transcript was requested; and that the transcript is a true and complete record of my stenographic notes. I further certify that on the 19th day of October, 2018, I notified SCOTT J. LINK, ESQUIRE that the deposition of JEFFREY EPSTEIN was ready for reading and signing by the witness. I further certify that I am not a relative, employee, attorney, or counsel of any of the parties, nor am I a relative or employee of any of the parties' attorney or counsel connected with the action, nor am I financially interested in the action. Dated this 19th day of October, 2018 SONJA D. HALL Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793595 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 98 of 165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 TO: JEFFREY EPSTEIN c/o SCOTT J. LINK, ESQUIRE LINK & ROCKENBACH, P.A. 1555 Palm Beach Lakes Boulevard, Suite 301 West Palm Beach, FL 33401 RE: JEFFREY EPSTEIN vs. SCOTT ROTHSTEIN, INDIVIDUALLY; BRADLEY EDWARDS, INDIVIDUALLY At the conclusion of your deposition given in the above-styled cause you indicated you wished to read and sign the transcript. This letter is to advise you that your deposition is ready, and we ask that you call our office at (561) 471-2995 at your earliest convenience for an appointment to come in. If you are a party in this action and your attorney has ordered a copy of this transcript, you may wish to read his copy and forward to us a photostatic copy of your signed correction sheet. It is necessary that you do this as soon as possible, since the transcript cannot be held beyond two weeks from the date of this letter. If you have any reason which you would like for me to place on your deposition as to your failure to sign the same, please advise. Thank you for your prompt attention. Very truly yours, PALM BEACH REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1665 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 1001 West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 BY: SONJA D. HALL Date: October 19th, 2018 Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793596 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 99 of 165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CORRECTION SHEET: NAME: JEFFREY EPSTEIN RE: JEFFREY EPSTEIN vs. SCOTT ROTHSTEIN, INDIVIDUALLY; BRADLEY EDWARDS, INDIVIDUALLY The following corrections, additions or deletions were noted on the transcript of the testimony which I gave in the above-captioned matter held on October 13th, 2018: PAGE(S) LINE(S) SHOULD READ SIGNATURE: DATE: Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793597 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22118 Page 100 of 165 EXHIBIT B SECOND EPSTEIN DEPOSITION EFTA00793598 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 101 of 165 UNITED STATES BANKRUPTCY COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA FORT LAUDERDALE Case No. 09-34791-RBR Chapter 11 IN RE: ROTHSTEIN ROSENFELDT ADLER, P.A., Debtor / VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF JEFFREY EPSTEIN Saturday, 11:05 a.m. 1555 Palm West Palm October 13th, 2018 - 12:10 p.m. Beach Lakes Boulevard, #930 Beach, Florida 33401 Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793599 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 102 of 165 2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Examination of the witness taken before Sonja D. Hall Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 1665 Palm Beach Lakes Boulevard, Suite 1001 West Palm Beach, FL 33401 (561) 471-2995 APPEARANCES: For Jeffrey Epstein: LINK & ROCKENBACH, P.A. 1555 Palm Beach Lakes Boulevard, Suite 301 West Palm Beach, FL 33401 By SCOTT J. LINK, ESQUIRE By KARA BERARD ROCKENBACH, ESQUIRE For Jeffrey Epstein: ATTERBURY, GOLDBERGER & WEISS, P.A. 250 Australian Ave. South, Suite 1400 West Palm Beach, FL 33401 By JACK A. GOLDBERGER, ESQUIRE For Bradley Edwards: SEARCY, DENNEY, SCAROLA, BARNHART & SHIPLEY, P.A. 2139 Palm Beach Lakes Boulevard West Palm Beach, FL 33409 By JACK SCAROLA, ESQUIRE EDWARDS POTTINGER LLC 425 N Andrews Avenue, Suite 2 Fort Lauderdale, FL 33301 By Bradley Edwards, Esquire (Telephonically) For Fowler White: CARLTON FIELDS, PA 525 Okeechobee Boulevard, Suite 1200 West Palm Beach, FL 33401 By JOSEPH IANNO, JR, ESQUIRE Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793600 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 103 of 165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 For L.M., E.W. and Jane Doe: S.J. QUINNEY COLLEGE OF LAW at the UNIVERSITY OF UTAH 332 S. University Street Salt Lake City, UT 84112 By PAUL G. CASSELL, ESQUIRE (Telephonically) ALSO PRESENT Above & Beyond Reprographics 2161 Palm Beach Lakes Boulevard, Suite 412 West Palm Beach, FL 33409 By Manuel Santiago, Videographer Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793601 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 104 of 165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 INDEX Videotaped Deposition of JEFFREY EPSTEIN Page No. Direct Examination by Mr. Cassell 7 Cross-Examination by Mr. Ianno 34 Redirect Examination Mr. Cassell 39 Cross-Examination by Mr. Scarola 57 Certificate of Oath 62 Certificate of Reporter 63 Read & Sign Letter to Witness 64 EXHIBIT INDEX No. Description Page No 1 Jeffrey Epstein's Sworn Declaration 13 5 Bankruptcy Court Order 34 (Exhibits 2-4 are incorporated in the prior deposition, as agreed by Counsel.) Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793602 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 105 of 165 5 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are on the video record. This is the 13th day of October 2018. The time is approximately 11:05 a.m. This is the videotaped deposition of Jeffrey Epstein, In Re: Rothstein Rosenfeldt Adler, P.A. This deposition is being held at 1555 Palm Beach Lakes Boulevard, West Palm Beach, Florida 33401. My name is Manuel Santiago. I am the videographer representing Above & Beyond Reprographics. Will the attorneys please announce their appearances for the record? MR. SCAROLA: Jack Scarola appearing on behalf of Bradley Edwards. MR. LINK: Scott Link and Kara Rockenbach on behalf of Jeffrey Epstein. MR. IANNO: Joseph Ianno, Carlton Fields on behalf of Fowler White. MR. GOLDBERGER: And Jack Goldberger on behalf of Mr. Epstein. MR. CASSELL: Paul Cassell, an attorney in Utah on behalf of L.M., E.W. and Jane Doe. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793603 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 106 of 165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 THEREUPON, JEFFREY EPSTEIN, being a witness in the notice heretofore filed, and being first duly sworn in the above cause, testified on his oath as follows: THE WITNESS: Yes. MR. SCAROLA: For the record, we have agreed by stipulation to incorporate the just concluded -- subject to rulings on objections -- deposition of Mr. Epstein in the circuit court case as part of the record in this deposition being take in the bankruptcy proceeding. And I have no further questions in light of that incorporation. MR. IANNO: I guess I should have asked, because I'm not a party -- Fowler White is not a party in the state court proceedings. Does everybody agree that Fowler White can obtain a copy of the state court deposition, which typically doesn't always happen? Is that acceptable to everyone? MR. SCAROLA: Yes. MR. LINK: Yes. Since it relates to both proceedings, yes, sir. No objection. MR. SCAROLA: So with that, I believe Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793604 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 107 of 165 Mr. Cassell has questions for Mr. Epstein. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. LINK: Mr. Cassell, before you start, I noticed you notice your appearance on behalf of three intervenors. The bankruptcy court's last ruling is that only intervenor L.M. has standing to ask questions at this deposition. So to the extent you seek to ask separate questions for the other two intervenors, the court order does not provide that. MR. CASSELL: We can address that issue, should it arise. I'm not anticipating that that problem will arise. MR. LINK: Very good. Thank you, sir. DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. CASSELL: Q Good morning, Mr. Epstein. I represent a victim of sexual assault that I will refer to as L.M. Do you know L.M.? MR. GOLDBERGER: On behalf of Mr. Epstein, Mr. Cassell, he's going to invoke his Fifth Amendment privileges. Do you want him to recite that or would you accept my representation? MR. CASSELL: I would prefer that he Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793605 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 108 of 165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 recites that. THE WITNESS: On the advice of Counsel, I will assert the Fifth. BY MR. CASSELL: Q It will speed things up if you would just say the Fifth or something like that. I think we can all understand what you're doing, if that's acceptable to everyone. MR. GOLDBERGER: That's fine. Thank you. BY MR. CASSELL: Q Do you have any bias against L.M., sir? MR. LINK: I'm going to instruct you not to answer that question. It exceeds the scope of the permitted deposition by Judge Ray. MR. CASSELL: Can I have some clarification, Mr. Link? I understood I was entitled to ask questions going to L.M.'s interest in this case. And as I pursue that, I was trying to see if Mr. Epstein would have any reason to provide slanted testimony in connection with those subjects. MR. LINK: Yes, sir. The court said, I am going to allow the deposition of Epstein as to knowledge about the disc or possession about the disc, very limited. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793606 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 109 of 165 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 So those are the questions in the bankruptcy proceeding that I am going to allow him to answer pursuant to Judge Ray's order. MR. SCAROLA: And it is Brad Edwards' position that issues concerning bias and prejudice are always appropriate with respect to any deponent under any circumstances, absent some specific prohibition by the court with regard to those subject matters. MR. LINK: Well, you have finished on behalf Mr. Edwards. Are you now assisting Mr. Cassell and L.M. as their counsel? MR. SCAROLA: Oh, no. MR. LINK: You have already said you were done, Mr. Scarola. MR. SCAROLA: Yes, I have asked all the questions that I had, but I have every right to state the position of Bradley Edwards with regard to any issue that arises during the course of this deposition. And bias and prejudice of the witness is clearly an appropriate area of inquiry. MR. LINK: I'm going to, again, instruct him not to answer based on Judge Ray's very Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793607 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 110 of 165 10 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 specific limited order of what he will allow Mr. Epstein to answer. BY MR. CASSELL: Q Mr. Epstein, do you have any prejudice against L.M.? MR. LINK: Mr. Cassell, again, I am instructing Mr. Epstein not to answer that question. None of these questions have anything to do with whether he had knowledge of the existence of the specific disc that we are talking about, and I am instructing Mr. Epstein not to answer. BY MR. CASSELL: Q Mr. Epstein, would you have any reason to deny having knowledge about a disc that contains information about L.M.? MR. LINK: Give me a minute. My head is twisted over the question. Would you rephrase it for me, Mr. Cassell, please? MR. CASSELL: Why don't we just have the court reporter read it back. (Thereupon, the requested portion of the record was read back by the reporter as Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793608 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 111 of 165 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 above duly recorded.) MR. LINK: I am going to instruct you not to answer the question. I don't understand it. I believe it exceeds the scope of this deposition as set by Judge Ray. MR. CASSELL: What part of the question don't you understand, Mr. Link? MR. LINK: Because I don't understand it at all. It's as though you're asking him does he have a reason to lie about not knowing that Fowler White had a disc in a box -- whatever that disc is -- for a period of eight years. That just doesn't make any sense to me. I don't understand it. BY MR. CASSELL: Q Mr. Epstein, you can answer if you understand it. MR. LINK: He can't, because I have instructed him not to. BY MR. CASSELL: Q Mr. Epstein, do you have any knowledge actually, let's go in this direction. MR. CASSELL: And perhaps Mr. Scarola could assist me and place in front of the witness the declaration of Mr. Epstein filed in Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793609 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 112 of 165 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the bankruptcy action. MR. LINK: It's Exhibit 1 to this deposition transcript. So that the record is clear, it was Exhibit 1 to the combined deposition. It is now going to be marked separately as Exhibit 1 to the bankruptcy deposition so that it is part of the bankruptcy proceeding. MR. SCAROLA: The circuit court deposition has been incorporated in the bankruptcy deposition. Do we really need to mark the document twice? MR. LINK: I think it's safer to do it. MR. GOLDBERGER: If we have another copy, why don't we just do it. Do we have another copy? MR. LINK: No, no. I don't think we need another copy. I just wanted the record to reflect -- since we have a new transcript -- it was marked, but it will be an exhibit to this transcript. MR. SCAROLA: The old transcript is part of the new transcript. MR. IANNO: But I don't know if it's going Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793610 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 113 of 165 13 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to be incorporated in toto. It's one page. Let's -- we all agree that the court reporter can attach Exhibit 1 to both transcripts. That's simple. MR. SCAROLA: Fine. So it will be attached twice? MR. IANNO: Yes. If it was 100 pages, yes, it may be a problem. Butt it's one page. MR. GOLDBERGER: Mr. Epstein has the document, Mr. Cassell. (Exhibit Number 1 was marked for identification.) BY MR. CASSELL: Q Do you see paragraph four of that sworn declaration of facts? A Yes. Q And do you see a reference there to a disc, quote, CD, in that paragraph? A Yes. Q Would you have any reason to deny knowledge about that CD? MR. LINK: Object to the form. And I'm going to instruct him not to answer. MR. CASSELL: On what basis? MR. LINK: The question is not consistent Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793611 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 114 of 165 14 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 with what Judge Ray, in his ruling, where he says very limited to asking him about his knowledge. You want to ask him if he knew about it, you can ask him that. BY MR. CASSELL: Q Do you have any knowledge of the CD referenced in paragraph four? A Yes. Q Do you have any knowledge about information related to L.M. on that CD? MR. GOLDBERGER: I'm going to instruct Mr. Epstein to invoke his Fifth Amendment privileges as to that question, Mr. Cassell. Jeffrey, just say Fifth. THE WITNESS: Fifth. BY MR. CASSELL: Q When did you first learn about information regarding L.M. on that CD? A Sorry. The question again. Q When did you first learn about information about L.M. on that CD? A In February. Q What information did you learn about L.M. in February? Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793612 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 115 of 165 15 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. SCAROLA: Excuse me. Hold on just one second. THE WITNESS: I'm answering the question. MR. SCAROLA: No, you're not answering the question until I state my position on the record. It is our position that any disclosure on this record of privileged information is improper. And on behalf of Bradley Edwards, we object to any such disclosure on the record. MR. CASSELL: I'm going to withdraw the question, which will obviate Mr. Scarola's concern. MR. LINK: Okay. Do you have any other questions, Mr. Cassell. MR. CASSELL: Yes, I do. BY MR. CASSELL: Q Do you see paragraph six in the affidavit before you? A Yes. Q And it says, quote, I have never seen the CD nor received a copy of it, close quote. Is that correct? A That's correct. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793613 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 116 of 165 16 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q Does that sentence contain all of the information relevant to the CD? MR. LINK: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: I don't understand the question. BY MR. CASSELL: Q Well, it says, "I have never seen the CD." Had you seen information that was contained on the CD when you wrote this affidavit? A I said I have never seen the CD. Q Have you seen information from the CD? A Yes. Q And that was not disclosed in your affidavit, was it? A No. Q Why didn't you inform Judge Ray that you had the information from the CD in other ways? MR. LINK: So, I'm going to -- maybe I want you to answer that question. Judge Ray's order -- Do you want to talk to Mr. Cassell privately? MR. SCAROLA: No. MR. LINK: Judge Ray's order -- Judge Ray's order is limited to whether Mr. Epstein Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793614 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 117 of 165 17 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 had or was aware of the CD, which is a defined term in paragraph four of the submission before -- at any time before receiving it from my law firm. So this submission is specific to Judge Ray's inquiry. Now, if you want to ask him questions about what he saw on that CD -- is that what you intend to do, Mr. Cassell? MR. CASSELL: I intend to ask the question I just asked. MR. LINK: Well, then I am going to instruct him not to answer the question, because, A, it's nonsensical. And, B, it is beyond the scope of Judge Ray's order. MR. CASSELL: You're saying that the only thing we're permitted to ask about is the CD and not information on the CD? MR. LINK: If you want to ask him if he saw the information that's contained on the CD that is the subject of the bankruptcy proceeding before receiving it from me, I won't object to that. Judge Ray used the word disc. And when Counsel said we want to talk about the Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793615 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 118 of 165 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 information, Judge Ray said no. But if you have a specific question about -- for example, the documents that Mr. Epstein said he received from Mr. Indyke, whether he received those before February 2018, I won't object to that question. MR. CASSELL: And just for the record, the previously propounded question, which I think was proper, you're instructing him not to answer that question? MR. LINK: Yes, sir. MR. CASSELL: Right? MR. LINK: Yes, sir. Hopefully I have given you guidance on a question I don't think is permissible, but I would let you answer it based on what you said I would let Mr. Epstein, rather. MR. CASSELL: And so the record is clear, we disagree with your limited instruction. We think, obviously, information related to this CD is within the scope of Judge Ray's order. MR. LINK: I understand that. Mr. Cassell, so you know, the information that's contained on that CD, 27,000 pages, tens of thousands of pages Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793616 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 119 of 165 19 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 have been produced over the last 10 years, including material that at one time and still remains on the defective privileged log. But Judge Ray has made it clear that the issue in front of him is -- from Mr. Epstein's standpoint is really simple. It's on page 36. And it says, "I am going to allow the deposition of Epstein as to knowledge about the disc or possession about the disc. Very limited." Then I will draw your attention to page 45 where Mr. Scarola said, "We want to be able to litigate before Your Honor a violation of this court's order and retention of documents obtained from the disc." And the court said, "I disagree with you." So the court has made it abundantly clear that its focus is on whether Mr. Epstein knew Fowler White had a disc, whatever that disc may be, before communications with me. MR. SCAROLA: And I will state for the record that you are reading from a transcript Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793617 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 120 of 165 20 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that does not conform with the subsequently entered order by Judge Ray. MR. LINK: You may argue that to him. MR. CASSELL: That was going to be my point as well. MR. LINK: Go ahead with your question, Mr. Cassell. BY MR. LINK: Q When did you see information on the CD that is the subject of the bankruptcy proceeding? A After February. Q Would you have any reason to lie about stating that you only saw the information after February? MR. LINK: Again, I am going to instruct him not to answer that question. BY MR. CASSELL: Q When did you first become aware of your attorneys' possession of a disc containing information about L.M.? MR. LINK: So, when you say your attorney, are you referring to Link & Rockenbach? MR. CASSELL: I said attorneys plural. Any attorney. THE WITNESS: After February. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793618 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 121 of 165 21 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. CASSELL: Q Would you have any reason to lie in stating that you first learned about this after February? MR. LINK: I'm going to instruct you, Mr. Epstein, not to answer the question. BY MR. CASSELL: Q Have you distributed any information about L.M. after February? MR. LINK: Object to the form. Mr. Cassell, are you limiting your question to the information provided by my law firm and Mr. Indyke that came from the CD as defined in Exhibit 1? MR. CASSELL: Yes. THE WITNESS: Sorry. Could you repeat the question? MR. LINK: He's going to repeat it, but go ahead, then I will make my objection. BY MR. CASSELL: Q Have you distributed any information about L.M. after February? A I don't know what you mean by distributed any information. Sorry. Q Have you distributed any information as just described by Mr. Link after February regarding L.M.? Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793619 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 122 of 165 22 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. LINK: So, I am going to object that it's redundant of Mr. Scarola's questions. And if you are now asking specific as to L.M., did you -- Mr. Epstein, did you disclose or share emails about L.M. with anyone other than your attorneys, you can answer that question. THE WITNESS: No. BY MR. CASSELL: Q In answering no a moment ago, do you have any reason to lie? MR. LINK: I am going to instruct him not to answer. BY MR. CASSELL: Q Do you have any reason to answer no that would be relevant to the court in evaluating the truthfulness of your testimony? MR. LINK: I am going to instruct him not to answer. BY MR. CASSELL: Q Do you have any reason to be biased in answering with the word no? MR. LINK: I am going to instruct him not to answer. BY MR. CASSELL: Q Do you have any prejudice against my client Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793620 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 123 of 165 23 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that would lead you to say no when in fact the answer is yes? MR. LINK: I am going to instruct you not to answer. BY MR. CASSELL: Q Isn't it true, sir, that the answer to the previous question should have been yes? A I don't understand the question. Q Isn't it true, sir, that after February, you distributed information about L.M. that you got from the CD? A Could you specifically tell me what information you are referring to? Q Any information. MR. LINK: Unrelated to the emails from the CD that we are talking about, Mr. Cassell? MR. CASSELL: No. Related to any information on the CD. MR. LINK: To someone other than his attorneys? MR. CASSELL: Correct. MR. LINK: He's been asked that question twice and he has answered it. THE WITNESS: No. MR. LINK: The answer is no. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793621 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 124 of 165 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. CASSELL: And it's -- your position, Mr. Link, is I cannot explore reasons why that might be a false answer? MR. LINK: Well, that's different than saying, Are you a liar, which is the only question you have asked. BY MR. CASSELL: Q Is there any reason why that might be a false answer, Mr. Epstein? MR. LINK: Again, I am going to instruct him not to answer. MR. CASSELL: On what basis? MR. LINK: I just told you. All you're doing is calling him a liar. You're not asking questions that would show that what he has said is untrue. So I would allow you to test the veracity of what he said. I'm not going to let you say, Are you a liar. BY MR. CASSELL: Q Is there any reason why your veracity might be called into question with the previous answer, Mr. Epstein? MR. LINK: I'm going to instruct him not to answer. By the word veracity, I meant Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793622 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 125 of 165 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 asking real questions, rather than just accusing him of being a liar. BY MR. CASSELL: Q Would you have any reason to slant your testimony that you've just given, Mr. Epstein? MR. LINK: I'm going to instruct him not to answer. Slant. Another word for liar. Mr. Cassell, if all of your questions are going to be are you a liar, then you can just say that, and I will instruct him not to answer and you don't have to go through every one of them. MR. CASSELL: I don't think you've accurately characterized any of my questions. Why don't you just make your record to each question and we will move forward from there. MR. LINK: Okay. BY MR. CASSELL: Q Mr. Epstein, do you have any documents connected with this CD? A I don't know what you mean by connected with. Q Do you have any documents that refer to the CD? MR. LINK: So, Mr. Cassell, I apologize. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793623 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 126 of 165 26 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I hate to interrupt. It's definitional. As I have explained, this CD -- whatever this CD is -- is the source of 27,000 pages, tens of thousands of which have been produced in the course of the last 10 years. Many of them have been marked at depositions, including some that are on a privilege log. Some have been included in affidavits. Some have been filed with the court. So the scope of the deposition permitted by Judge Ray relates to Mr. Epstein's knowledge that a CD, as defined in our submission, was held by Fowler White. That's what he has allowed you to ask Mr. Epstein about. Period. MR. IANNO: And on behalf of Fowler White I join. MR. CASSELL: My question was a simple one. I asked him -- Mr. Epstein -- whether he had any documents related to the CD. I don't know that I got an answer to that question. MR. IANNO: Mr. Cassell, this is Joe Ianno. You don't have a time period. The documents, as Mr. Link has said, could have Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793624 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 127 of 165 27 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 come from 10 years and other sources. If you're going to ask him if he has any documents as a result of Link .4 Rockenbach's CD -- the CD from February of 2018, ask him that. But don't be generic and ask him if he just has documents whatsoever without any reference to a specific time period. MR. CASSELL: Why not? MR. LINK: Because it's not within the scope of the permitted bankruptcy deposition. This is not a discovery deposition. MR. IANNO: This is not a generic deposition where we're going into the merits of the case or anything. This is a deposition that's limited to the contempt proceedings that relate to the discovery of this alleged disc. Ask him those questions. But not something from 10 years ago. BY MR. CASSELL: Q On or after February 1st, 2018, do you have any documents connected to the CD? A I don't know what you mean by connected to. Are asking me if I kept any copies of the Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793625 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 128 of 165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 emails that reference your client? Q No. I am asking you whether you have any documents connected to the CD. MR. LINK: Mr. Cassell, I am just going to object and instruct him not to answer the question. BY MR. CASSELL: Q Mr. Epstein, on or after February 1st, 2018, do you have any documents related to the CD? MR. LINK: Again, I'm going to object to the form. I don't know how he can answer that question. I believe it exceeds what the bankruptcy court has permitted. The bankruptcy court was very clear that what has happened post my receipt of the CD is not an issue for the bankruptcy court, so I am going to instruct you not to answer, Mr. Epstein. BY MR. CASSELL: Q Mr. Epstein, on or after February 1st, 2018, do you have any documents connected to L.M. that came from the CD? MR. LINK: I have got the same objection and the same instruction. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793626 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 129 of 165 29 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. LINK: Q Mr. Epstein, on or after February 1st, 2018, do you have any documents related to L.M. and related to the CD? MR. LINK: Same objection and same instruction. Mr. Cassell, I promise you, I'm not trying to be an obstructionist here. If you would tailor the question to the bankruptcy proceeding, I will let him answer. BY MR. CASSELL: Q Mr. Epstein, on or after February 1st, 2018, do you have any documents related to the bankruptcy proceeding that are connected to L.M.? MR. LINK: Mr. Cassell, can I ask you a question? Why are you picking February 1st just for an example? Because the disc was first reviewed by my office on February 25th. I didn't know if it was intentional. MR. CASSELL: It is intentional. MR. LINK: Okay. Then I'm going to instruct him not to answer pursuant to Judge Ray's bankruptcy ruling. BY MR. CASSELL: Q Mr. Epstein, on or after February 23rd, 2018, Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793627 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 130 of 165 30 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 do you have any document connected to L.M. from the CD? MR. LINK: Same objection and instruction, Mr. Epstein. BY MR. CASSELL: Q Mr. Epstein, on or after February 23rd, 2018, do you have any documents related to L.M. that are related to the CD? MR. LINK: Same objection. Same instruction. BY MR. CASSELL: Q Mr. Epstein, on or after February 23rd, 2018, do you have any documents related to the bankruptcy proceeding that relate to L.M.? MR. LINK: Same objection. Same instruction. BY MR. CASSELL: Q Mr. Epstein, have you ever had a conversation with Lilly Ann Sanchez related to the CD? MR. IANNO: What time frame? MR. CASSELL: Anytime. MR. IANNO: Then I'm going to instruct him not to answer because Ms. Sanchez was his counsel and based on attorney-client privilege. BY MR. CASSELL: Q Mr. Epstein, without going into the substance Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793628 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 131 of 165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 of any conversation you may have had with Lilly Ann Sanchez, did you have a conversation with Lilly Ann Sanchez about the CD? MR. IANNO: Same instruction. You can ask him if he had a conversation, but you can't ask him if he had a conversation with his attorney about a specific subject matter, because that reveals the subject matter of the privilege. So you can ask him if he ever talked to Lilly Ann Sanchez, but not about what. MR. CASSELL: So you are instructing him not to answer that question? MR. IANNO: It's attorney-client privilege. Ms. Sanchez was an attorney with Fowler White. BY MR. CASSELL: Q Mr. Epstein, have you looked for any electronic data related to L.M. on or after February 1st, 2018? MR. LINK: I am going to object to the form and instruct you not to answer. BY MR. CASSELL: Q Mr. Epstein, do you have the document I think that's been marked as Exhibit 1 in front of you? A Yes. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793629 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 132 of 165 32 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q Do you see paragraph four in that document? A You have asked me that question before. Yes. Q And in that paragraph four, it indicates that Scott Link informed you that he had located a CD. MR. LINK: Yes, sir, that's what it says. BY MR. CASSELL: Q Did he tell you anything about L.M. when he informed you he had located the disc? MR. LINK: I am going to instruct him not to answer based on both attorney-client privilege, work product, and it exceeds the scope of Judge Ray's order. BY MR. CASSELL: Q In February 2018, what did Mr. Link inform you of? MR. LINK: You know Mr. Scarola asked these and I made the same objection. And the objection is both attorney-client, work product and exceeds the scope of Judge Ray's order. BY MR. CASSELL: Q What does paragraph four mean, Mr. Epstein? A It says Scott Link informed me that he had located a disc in Fowler White's files labeled "Epstein Bate Stamp" -- quote, Epstein Bate Stamp. Q Please tell me all that he informed you of. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793630 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 133 of 165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. LINK: Mr. Cassell, I'm going to instruct him not to answer based on attorney-client privilege, work product, exceeds the scope of Judge Ray's rulings. BY MR. CASSELL: Q It is true, sir, that Mr. Link told you information about L.M. at that time, correct? MR. LINK: Again, I am going to instruct him not to answer for all the reasons I have articulated a dozen times or more. MR. CASSELL: And I take it we agree that today's deposition is limited to liability, not to damage issues; is that correct? MR. LINK: Yes, sir. MR. CASSELL: Because I would have additional questions on damage issue. But since that's not covered, I didn't want there to be some argument that I have waived the opportunity to ask damage questions. MR. LINK: I will not assert that. We are in agreement. MR. CASSELL: I believe -- unless Mr. Scarola has any follow-up that my questions may have caused him to want to ask -- I believe I am done with my questions. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793631 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 134 of 165 34 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. LINK: Okay. Maybe it's now Mr. Ianno's turn. MR. IANNO: What number exhibit are we going to go with? We are going to go with five? then. May I have this marked as Exhibit 5, (Exhibit Number 5 was marked for identification.) CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. IANNO: Q Mr. Epstein, after you finish reviewing that document marked Exhibit 5, just let me know. MR. IANNO: Mr. Cassell, just so you know -- I apologize -- Exhibit 5 is the November 30, 2010 bankruptcy court order. MR. CASSELL: Thank you. BY MR. IANNO: Q I want to refer you back to number one and this infamous paragraph four that was discussed now for a little bit. Do you know where the CD originated that's referenced in paragraph four of Exhibit 1? A No, I do not. Q Do you know how it came into Fowler White's Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793632 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 135 of 165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 possession? A No, I do not. Q When you stated in paragraph four that the Fowler White's file labeled quote, Epstein Bate Stamp, close quote, what is labeled Epstein Bate Stamp? The file or the CD? A I believe the CD, but I'm not sure. Q Now, let me turn to Exhibit 5, which is a bankruptcy court order from November of 2010. A Yes, sir. Q Are you aware of this order? A I have just read it. Q Have you seen it before today's deposition? A I don't recall. Q Did you know of the existence of this order? A I don't recall. Q Let me turn your attention to page two, the third line that begins with Fowler White. A Okay. Q Let's take this phrase by phrase. It states, "Fowler White will not retain any copies of the documents contained on the discs provided to it." And that was discs, plural, correct? A Correct. Q Do you know what discs are referred to there? Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793633 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 136 of 165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A No. Q Do you know if the discs referred to in Exhibit 5 are the same discs or disc in Exhibit 1? A No, sir. Q Do you know if the disc referred to in Exhibit 5 is a disc that Link found in Fowler White's files -- Link & Rockenbach found -- I'm sorry -- in the Fowler White's files? A Could you repeat the question? Q Sure. Do you know if the discs referred to in Exhibit 5 is the same discs or disc that Link & Rockenbach found in Fowler White's files in February 2018? A I do not. Q The order on Exhibit 5 goes on to state -- the next phrase -- Nor shall any images or copies of said documents be retained in the memory of Fowler White's computers (sic). A Copiers. Q Copiers. Sorry. You're correct. Thank you for correcting me. Do you know if there were any images or copies of documents retained in the memory of Fowler White's copiers? Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793634 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 137 of 165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A I do not. Q Do you know if the documents contained on the disc that is the subject of Exhibit 1 in your declaration are the same documents from discs referred to in Exhibit 5? A I do not. Q The next sentence goes on to state, "Should it be determined that Fowler White or Epstein retained images or copies of the subject documents on its computer or otherwise --" Do you have any knowledge of whether or not Fowler White retained images of copies of the subject documents on a computer or otherwise? A I do not. Q Between November 2010 and February of 2018, did you have any knowledge as to whether or not a disc that was the subject of Exhibit 5 was retained by Fowler White? A I did not. Q Do you know if, in fact, a disc that is the subject of Exhibit 5 was retained by Fowler White? A I do not. Q I just want to clarifying something. I know we incorporated the previous deposition. I believe Mr. Scarola asked you if you talked to any agent of Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793635 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 138 of 165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Fowler White about the discs. Do you recall that? A Yes, sir. Q I had a problem with when he used the word agent. A So did I. Q Did you talk to any attorney with Fowler White -- without disclosing the contents of the communications -- between February 2018 and today about the disc? A I don't remember. Q Do you have any general recollection of calling somebody from Fowler White -- or at Fowler White between February 2018 and today? A I don't remember. Sorry. MR. LINK: Paul, you still there? MR. CASSELL: I am. I will have follow-up questions on these questions. MR. LINK: That's okay. There was just a beep. I thought you got lost there. MR. CASSELL: Thank you for checking. BY MR. IANNO: Q And just to clarify, Mr. Epstein, you have no idea as to whether or not the disc that's referred to in Exhibit 1 is the same disc that's referenced in Exhibit 5, correct? Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793636 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 139 of 165 39 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A I do not. Correct. MR. IANNO: I have no further questions. MR. LINK: Mr. Cassell. REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. CASSELL: Q I believe just a moment ago you were asked about a document identified as Exhibit 5. A Yes. Q And that's dated November 30th, 2009, correct? MR. IANNO: 2010. THE WITNESS: 2010. BY MR. CASSELL: Q I'm sorry. 2010. Thank you. Is that right, Mr. Epstein? A Yes. Q And I believe you answered you had no knowledge of where the disc came from from 2010 onwards; is that right? MR. LINK: I'm not sure that was the question. THE WITNESS: Sorry. Can you rephrase the question? MR. LINK: Can you reask the question? Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793637 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 140 of 165 40 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. LINK: Q I believe you were asked and answered that you had no knowledge as to how Fowler White came to come into possession of a disc in or about 2009; is that right? MR. LINK: That's not what he asked. MR. IANNO: I object. That wasn't the question or the answer. MR. CASSELL: Well, perhaps the court reporter could assist us by reading back the question regarding how Fowler White came into possession of the disc and Mr. Epstein's answer. MR. IANNO: I can assist you there, Mr. Cassell, and Mr. Scarola can correct me if I'm wrong. That question was related to Exhibit 1 and the disc referenced in paragraph four in Exhibit 1. MR. CASSELL: And my recollection is Mr. Epstein denied having any knowledge regarding the disc, correct? MR. IANNO: He can answer, but the record will reflect what his testimony was. BY MR. CASSELL: Q What was your answer to the question that's Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793638 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 141 of 165 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 just been referred to, Mr. Epstein? MR. LINK: I'm not going to let him answer a question like that. You have to ask him a specific question, Mr. Cassell. MR. CASSELL: I would like the court reporter, then, to read back the question that was asked at the beginning of the set of questions that were just asked regarding a disc coming into the possession of Fowler White. MR. GOLDBERGER: You have to be a little more specific than that. She will be searching for 45 minutes. MR. CASSELL: How about the second substantive question that was asked? MR. IANNO: He's asking for the second question I asked him during my questioning. MR. CASSELL: Second substantive question. MR. GOLDBERGER: Mr. Cassell, the court reporter is asking for direction. The second question that was asked? Is that what you're asking? MR. CASSELL: The second question. (A discussion was held off the record.) MR. LINK: Why don't we go off the record. Mr. Cassell, we are going off the Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793639 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 142 of 165 /12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 record for a minute. THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the record. The time is 11:47 a.m. (A discussion was held off the record.) (Whereupon, Bradley Edwards joins the proceedings.) THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Going back on the record. The time is 11:49 a.m. BY MR. CASSELL: Q And if the court reporter could read back the question and the answer, I think that would speed up my subsequent questions here. (Thereupon, the requested portion of the record was read back by the reporter as above duly recorded.) BY MR. CASSELL: Q Do you recall the answer, "I did not," Mr. Epstein? A Yes. Q Did you have any reason, when you made that statement, to give inaccurate testimony? MR. LINK: I am going to object based on all the objections I made in the past and instruct you not to answer. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793640 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 143 of 165 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. CASSELL: Q Did you have any reason to lie when you gave that testimony, sir? MR. LINK: Same instruction and objection. BY MR. CASSELL: Q Did you have any reason to be biased when you gave that answer to that question, sir? MR. LINK: Same instruction. BY MR. CASSELL: Q Did you have any reason to be prejudiced when you gave that answer, sir? MR. LINK: Same. BY MR. CASSELL: Q Did you have any reason to slant your testimony so that it would be harmful to L.M. when you gave the answer to that question, sir? MR. LINK: Same. BY MR. CASSELL: Q Did you have any reason to slant your testimony so it would be biased against any other part in this matter, including Bradley J. Edwards? MR. LINK: Same. BY MR. LINK: Q Isn't it true, sir, that you have substantial reasons to give inaccurate information to the answer to Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793641 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 144 of 165 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that question? MR. LINK: Same. BY MR. CASSELL: Q And, sir, if I was allowed to explore why you gave inaccurate information to that question, we would discover substantial reasons for slanting your testimony; isn't that true? MR. LINK: So I'm going object to form, the characterization, and I'm going to instruct him not to answer. MR. GOLDBERGER: Not just because of form, but it's beyond the scope. MR. LINK: It is beyond the scope and it's a very inappropriate statement for a lawyer to make in Florida -- anywhere. BY MR. CASSELL: Q Was the statement I just made accurate, Mr. Epstein? MR. LINK: I'm going to instruct him not to answer for all the reasons I've already articulated. BY MR. CASSELL: Q Isn't it true, sir, that the statement I just made is accurate? MR. LINK: Same instruction. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793642 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 145 of 165 45 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. CASSELL: Q Sir, with regard to all the answers that you gave to the attorney for Fowler White a moment ago, isn't it true that you had reason to slant your testimony against L.M.? MR. LINK: Same instruction, Mr. Epstein. BY MR. CASSELL: Q In general, sir, isn't it true that you have substantial bias against L.M.? MR. LINK: Same instruction, Mr. Epstein. BY MR. CASSELL: Q With regard to the question and answer that we have been talking about -- that is, the November 2010 to February 2018 Fowler White disc possession -- do you have any documents associated with that answer? MR. LINK: Does he have any documents associated with his not having knowledge? MR. CASSELL: Correct. THE WITNESS: I don't understand the question. MR. LINK: How can you have documents about something you don't have knowledge about, Mr. Cassell? Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793643 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 146 of 165 46 1 2 3 4 S 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. CASSELL: That's what I wanted to know, whether the answer to my question is yes or no. THE WITNESS: I don't understand the question. Can you rephrase the question, sir? BY MR. CASSELL: Q Previously we discussed a question which was to the effect that, between November 2010 and February 2018, whether you had any knowledge of a disc being retained by Fowler White. And you answered, I did not have any knowledge. I am wondering if you have any documents associated with your answer? MR. LINK: So, I am going to let him answer the question, but I'm going to note that we had an objection to the production of any documents that were on the duces tecum. But, Mr. Epstein, if you can answer his question about whether you have any documents that confirm that you had no knowledge, then you can answer the question. THE WITNESS: I don't -- MR. LINK: He doesn't understand the question. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793644 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 147 of 165 47 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. CASSELL: Q Would you have any documents associated with possession of a disc by Fowler White between November 2010 and February 2018? A Again. I'm sorry. Do I have any what? Q Do you have -- I'm sorry. MR. LINK: I think he's asking you if you have any -- THE WITNESS: Let him tell me. MR. LINK: Mr. Cassell, what's the question? BY MR. CASSELL: Q Do you have any documents associated with Fowler White's possession of a disc between November 2010 and February 2018? MR. IANNO: Mr. Cassell, on behalf of Fowler White, I have to object, because that question is very overbroad. If you want to ask him about specific -- Exhibit 5 is a document that he may have had in his possession that relates to a disc. I mean, you have to be more specific than just saying do you have any documents that relate to it. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793645 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 148 of 165 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. CASSELL: From what I understood from Mr. Link, the answer to this question was going to be no because he had no knowledge of anything -- or seems to be a document which shows knowledge. MR. LINK: I think Mr. Ianno's point is your question is broader than what I was saying. MR. IANNO: Right. MR. CASSELL: Well, I'm going to ask the question again, then. BY MR. CASSELL: Q The question is, Mr. Epstein, do you have any documents associated -- I'm sorry. Let me start over. Mr. Epstein, do you have any documents associated with the disc being retained by Fowler White between November 2010 and February 2018? A Are you referring to documents that talk about the disc, or documents from the disc that has 27,000 piece of paper? I don't understand the question. I'm sorry. MR. IANNO: Mr. Cassell, I think if -- I direct the focus of your question on the word retain. Is that correct? MR. CASSELL: That's part of the question Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793646 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 149 of 165 49 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 yes. MR. IANNO: Okay. MR. LINK: The way the question is framed, Mr. Cassell, the witness can't answer it. MR. CASSELL: Well, the witness can explain to me why he can't answer it and I will -- THE WITNESS: Because it's 27,000 -- MR. CASSELL: I'm going to object to the attorneys coaching. The attorneys are entitled to object to my question, and should feel free to do so. But I don't want the attorneys telling me what Mr. Epstein can and cannot do. He's perfectly capable of speaking for himself. MR. LINK: Fair enough. We were trying to be helpful and move it along. Why don't you ask the question and we will decide whether he can answer it or not. BY MR. CASSELL: Q Mr. Epstein, do you have any documents associated with a disc retained by Fowler White in November 2010 and February 2018? A What does associated mean? Q Associated would be the standard definition Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793647 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 150 of 165 50 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 of associated, connected to or related to. MR. LINK: Mr. Cassell, I'm sorry to jump in here. Are you talking about as defined -- the CD in paragraph four of Mr. Epstein's declaration? MR. CASSELL: I was talking, what I thought was well established at this point, about a question that the Fowler White attorney asked and an answer that Mr. Epstein gave about 10 minutes ago. MR. LINK: I think there's a disconnect. MR. IANNO: You're confusing the transcript. MR. LINK: I'm going to do this. Make it easy. I am going to instruct him not to answer the pending question. If you have a different question that ties into whether Mr. Epstein had knowledge before February 2018 of the existence, or whether he had possession of the CD as defined in paragraph four of his submission, I will let him answer that. MR. CASSELL: Why are objecting to him answering this question? MR. LINK: Because it's an overly broad Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793648 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 151 of 165 51 1 2 3 4 S 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 question that is unrelated to the bankruptcy proceeding. And as we have talked about extensively here, there are multiple discs. There are 27,000 pages, tens of thousands of which have been produced at various times. And -- so to ask the general question about the contents of the disc is different than asking about the specific disc that's referenced in the affidavit and the submission, and that's the scope of the bankruptcy proceeding. MR. CASSELL: I have to say that I'm perplexed, because 10 minutes ago the attorney for Fowler White asked Mr. Epstein as part of the bankruptcy proceeding whether he had any knowledge of a disc being retained by Fowler White. And I'm now simply following up on that question. So it's not clear to me how this could somehow be unconnected with the bankruptcy proceeding when my question directly relates to a question that was asked just 10 minutes ago. MR. IANNO: No, it doesn't, Mr. Cassell. Your question goes far beyond what I asked, and Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793649 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 152 of 165 52 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I will leave it at that. BY MR. CASSELL: Q Mr. Epstein, are you familiar with the question that was asked to you about 10 minutes ago that I had the court reporter read back to you? A Yes, sir. Q Are you familiar with your answer? A Yes, sir. Q Do you have any documents connected with your answer? A The question asked was did I have any knowledge of the disc being retained. I have no to the best of my recollection, any documents that reflect whether I knew that the disc was retained. Is that an answer to your question? Q Yes. MR. LINK: Thank you, Mr. Epstein. BY MR. CASSELL: Q When you say to the best of your knowledge, do you have any reason to be forgetful on this topic? A It's been -- you described it's been 10 years -- eight years since this disc, so I don't know with specificity over eight years and what documents have been derived from or touched this -- related to, in your words. So your question is just too broad for Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793650 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 153 of 165 53 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 me to answer. I'm sorry. Q So let's focus, then, on or about November 30th, 2010. Do you have any reason to forget what knowledge you would have had about Fowler White retaining a disc at that time? MR. LINK: I'm going the way you phrased the question, I'm going to object to the form and instruct him not to answer it. MR. CASSELL: What's the basis for the instruction not to answer? MR. LINK: Do you have any reason to forget? MR. CASSELL: Yes. MR. LINK: I'm going to instruct him not to answer the question. MR. CASSELL: On what basis? MR. LINK: Because essentially it's the same thing as, Are you lying? Do you have a specific reason to forget? It's argumentive and it exceeds the scope of the bankruptcy order. MR. CASSELL: Let's go through this. I didn't know that an argumentive question was the basis for an objection in this proceeding. Is that your position? Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793651 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 154 of 165 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. LINK: No. I'm just articulating all the reasons I thought the question didn't make sense. In essence, what I'm not going to allow you to do is to ask questions about are you lying? are you slanting? are you intentionally forgetting? are you biased? are you skewed? which has been 90 percent of what you have tried to do. So you can frame them different ways, but it's the same result, and so I'm instructing him not to answer. BY MR. CASSELL: Q Mr. Epstein, about one minute ago you said that something that happened eight years ago would be difficult for you to remember. MR. LINK: That is not what he said. THE WITNESS: That is not what I said. MR. CASSELL: Would the court reporter read back the answer that Mr. Epstein gave approximately two minutes ago. (Thereupon, the requested portion of the record was read back by the reporter as above duly recorded.) cast Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793652 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 155 of 165 55 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. CASSELL: Q Sir, do you recall the answer that you just gave two minutes ago? A Yes. Q And you indicated that it dealt with something that was not indicated with specificity, I think was the word you used. A That's correct. Q If we focus in on information related to my client L.M., do you remember anything from eight years ago regarding documents associated with L.M. that Fowler White might have been retaining? MR. IANNO: Object to the form. Outside the scope of the contempt proceedings, and overbroad. MR. CASSELL: I don't understand how something could be outside of the contempt proceedings if I'm following up on a question that -- the answer gave two minutes ago. MR. IANNO: That's not your question, Mr. Cassell. I'm kind of offended that there's five lawyers in this room on a Saturday morning, a court reporter, a videographer, and we're wasting time about -- talking about issues Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793653 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 156 of 165 56 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that have nothing to do with the bankruptcy proceeding. But go forward. MR. LINK: Will you ask the question again, please? BY MR. CASSELL: Q Do you have any reason to recall information -- sorry. Do you have any reason to recall information about my client L.M.? MR. LINK: Generally? THE WITNESS: Yes, I do. I have tremendous information about your client. MR. IANNO: What does that have to do MR. LINK: Ask your next question. He says he has tremendous information about your client. MR. CASSELL: I'm sorry. Could you -- MR. LINK: He has tremendous information about your client. BY MR. CASSELL: Q What information do you have that you learned from the -- actually, let me rephrase that. Any information that might cause her emotional distress? MR. LINK: Can you say that question Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793654 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 157 of 165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 again? BY MR. CASSELL: Q Do you have any information about my client that might cause her emotional distress, without revealing the nature -- without indicating what that information is? MR. SCAROLA: Excuse me. Paul, aren't those questions better reserved for the damage portion? MR. IANNO: Which is what I was going to state, but okay. MR. CASSELL: Without going into details, I just wanted to ask that one question. MR. SCAROLA: Isn't that one better reserved for the damage portion? MR. CASSELL: I will withdraw that question. I think those -- unless Mr. Scarola has any follow-ups to my questions, I believe those are all the questions I have. CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. SCAROLA: Q With regard to Exhibit Number 5, the order entered in the bankruptcy proceeding, when is the first time that you saw that document? Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793655 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 158 of 165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Sorry. Five? Q Yes. MR. LINK: Mr. Epstein, you heard his question. When you saw it. I don't want you to talk about if you discussed it, any communication with lawyers. THE WITNESS: Just today is my best recollection. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q When is the first time you learned of the existence of this order? A I don't remember. Q Did you learn of the existence of this order at any time prior to February of 2018? A I don't recall. Sorry. Q When is the most recent time that the most recent time prior to today that you learned of the existence of this order? A I think just today is the best of my recollection. Q So you had no knowledge that this order existed at any time before today. Is that your testimony? A No. I said I don't remember. I don't recall. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793656 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 159 of 165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q So you may or may not have learned of the existence of this order sometime prior to today. You don't have a recollection of that. Is that your testimony? MR. LINK: Hold on one second. So as I instructed you before, so you know, I don't want you to share communications with your lawyers. If you have independent information or knowledge, then you can answer it. MR. SCAROLA: And it is our position that knowledge gained from Mr. Epstein's attorneys about the existence of an order that expressly relates to Mr. Epstein is not a privileged communication in any respect at all in light of the fact that the order requires action on Mr. Epstein's part. So are you instructing -- MR. LINK: The word only requires action on Mr. Epstein's part. But if he had the disc -- which he has testified he didn't have the disc -- so there's no action required by the order, Mr. Scarola. MR. SCAROLA: That is not -- that is not accurate, but we don't need to argue about that. Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793657 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 160 of 165 60 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. LINK: I agree. MR. SCAROLA: Are you instructing him not to answer the question as phrased? MR. LINK: No. I gave him the instruction not to divulge attorney-client privilege communication. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Did any lawyer ever tell you that there was an order entered by the court that restricted your ability to retain information regarding emails? MR. LINK: I am going to object to your statement. That is not what the order says, and I am going to instruct you not to disclose communications with lawyers. BY MR. SCAROLA: Q This order reads, "Should it be determined that Fowler White or Epstein retained images or copies of the subject documents" -- referring to documents that were delivered in electronic form to Fowler White -- "on its computer or otherwise, the court retains jurisdiction to award sanctions in favor of Farmer, Brad Edwards or his client." Do you see where that provision is included in the order? MR. LINK: You may look at the Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793658 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 161 of 165 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 provision -- But I object to -- you added words to the sentence, Mr. Scarola. But you may look BY MR. SCAROLA: Q Let me read the sentence exactly as it appears in the order. "Should it be determined that Fowler White or Epstein retained images or copies of the subject documents on its computer or otherwise, the Court retains jurisdiction to award sanctions in favor of Farmer, Brad Edwards or his client." Did I read that sentence accurately? A Yes, sir. Q Have you ever done anything up to today, as you sit here right now, to determine whether you are or are not in compliance with that order? MR. LINK: So I'm going to instruct you not to answer that question as he phrased it. MR. SCAROLA: I have no further questions. MR. LINK: We will read and not waive. THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the record. The time is 12:10 p.m. this marks the end of the deposition. (The deposition was concluded at 12:10 p.m.) Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793659 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 162 of 165 62 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CERTIFICATE OF OATH STATE OF FLORIDA : SS COUNTY OF PALM BEACH ) I, the undersigned authority, certify that JEFFREY EPSTEIN personally appeared before me and was duly sworn. WITNESS my hand and official seal this 19th day of October, 2018. Sonja D. Hall Commission No.: GG 168652 Notary Public - State of Florida My Commission Expires: 2-01-22 Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793660 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 163 of 165 63 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 REPORTER'S DEPOSITION CERTIFICATE STATE OF FLORIDA ) : SS COUNTY OF PALM BEACH ) I, SONJA D. HALL, certify that I was authorized to and did stenographically report the deposition of JEFFREY EPSTEIN; that a review of the transcript was requested; and that the transcript is a true and complete record of my stenographic notes. I further certify that on the 19th day of October, 2018, I notified SCOTT J. LINK, ESQUIRE that the deposition of JEFFREY EPSTEIN was ready for reading and signing by the witness. I further certify that I am not a relative, employee, attorney, or counsel of any of the parties, nor am I a relative or employee of any of the parties' attorney or counsel connected with the action, nor am I financially interested in the action. Dated this 19th day of October, 2018 SONJA D. HALL Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793661 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 164 of 165 64 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 TO: JEFFREY EPSTEIN c/o SCOTT J. LINK, ESQUIRE LINK & ROCKENBACH, P.A. 1555 Palm Beach Lakes Boulevard, Suite 301 West Palm Beach, FL 33401 RE: JEFFREY EPSTEIN vs. SCOTT ROTHSTEIN, INDIVIDUALLY; BRADLEY EDWARDS, INDIVIDUALLY At the conclusion of your deposition given in the above-styled cause you indicated you wished to read and sign the transcript. This letter is to advise you that your deposition is ready, and we ask that you call our office at (561) 471-2995 at your earliest convenience for an appointment to come in. If you are a party in this action and your attorney has ordered a copy of this transcript, you may wish to read his copy and forward to us a photostatic copy of your signed correction sheet. It is necessary that you do this as soon as possible, since the transcript cannot be held beyond two weeks from the date of this letter. If you have any reason which you would like for me to place on your deposition as to your failure to sign the same, please advise. Thank you for your prompt attention. Very truly yours, PALM BEACH REPORTING SERVICE, INC. 1665 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 1001 West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 BY: SONJA D. HALL Date: October 19th, 2018 Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793662 Case 09-34791-RBR Doc 6488 Filed 10/22/18 Page 165 of 165 65 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CORRECTION SHEET: NAME: JEFFREY EPSTEIN RE: JEFFREY EPSTEIN vs. SCOTT ROTHSTEIN, INDIVIDUALLY; BRADLEY EDWARDS, INDIVIDUALLY The following corrections, additions or deletions were noted on the transcript of the testimony which I gave in the above-captioned matter held on October 13th, 2018: PAGE(S) LINE(S) SHOULD READ SIGNATURE: DATE: Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 EFTA00793663