DS9 Document EFTA01158522

0016 1 2 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE 15th JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND FOR PALM BEACH COUNTY, FLORIDA 3 4 5 =., 6 7 8 9 10 - vs- CASE No. 502008CA037319XXXXMB AB Plaintiff, JEFFREY EPSTEIN, Defendant. 11 12 13 CONTINUED DEPOSITION OF JEFFREY EPSTEIN 14 VOLUME II 15 16 Thursday, October 8, 2009 17 18 10:07 - 1:03 p.m. 19 20 250 South Australian Avenue Suite 1400 21 West Palm Beach,Florida 33401 22 23 Reported By: Jeana Ricciuti, RPR, FPR, CLR 24 Notary Public, State of Florida Prose Court Reporting Agency, Inc. 25 0017 1 APPEARANCES: 2 On behalf of the Plaintiff: SPENCER T. KUVIN, ESQUIRE 3 ADAM LANGINO, ESQUIRE LEOPOLD KUVIN, P.A. 4 2295 PGA Boulevard Suite 200 5 Palm Beach Gardens, Florida 33410 Phone: 6 On behalf of IIM. and III. and Jane Doe in Case No. 7 80893: CARA L. HOLMES, ESQUIRE 8 ROTHSTEIN, ROSENFELDT & ADLER 401 East Las Olas Boulevard 9 Suite 1650 Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33301 10 Phone: 11 On behalf of Plaintiff Jane Doe in Case No. 80591 and 80656 via telephone: 12 KATHERINE W. EZELL, ESQUIRE PODHURST ORSECK, P.A. 13 25 West Flagler Street Miami, Florida 33130 14 Phone: 15 On behalf of the Defendant: JACK GOLDBERGER, ESQUIRE 16 STORY KOWLES, PARALEGAL ATTERBURY, GOLDBERGER & WEISS, P.A. EFTA01158522 17 250 South Australian Avenue 18 Suite 1400 West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Phone: 19 MICHAEL J. PIKE, ESQUIRE 20 BURMAN, CRITTON, LUTTIER & COLEMAN, P.A. 21 303 Banyan Boulevard Suite 400 22 West Palm Beach, Florida Phone: 33401 23 ALSO PRESENT: 24 DAN DOSKEY, VIDEOGRAPHER 25 VISUAL EVIDENCE, INC. 0018 1 2 INDEX 3 WITNESS: DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS 4 JEFFREY EPSTEIN 5 BY MR. KUVIN 21 6 7 8 EXHIBITS 9 10 NUMBER DESCRIPTION PAGE 11 PLAINTIFF'S EX. 1 FDLE SEXUAL 24 OFFENDER/PREDATOR FLYER 12 PLAINTIFF'S EX. 2 STATEMENT 25 PLAINTIFF'S EX. 3 PHOTOGRAPH OF HOME 33 13 PLAINTIFF'S EX. 4 BOTTLE OF JOY JELLY 38 PLAINTIFF'S EX. 5 PHOTOGRAPH OF GIRL 129 14 PLAINTIFF'S EX. 6 PHOTOGRAPH OF GIRL 129 PLAINTIFF'S EX. 7 PHOTOGRAPH OF GIRL 131 15 PLAINTIFF'S EX. 8 PHOTOGRAPH OF GIRL 132 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0019 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 PROCEEDINGS Deposition taken before Jeana Ricciuti, Registered Professional Reporter and Notary Public in and for the State of Florida at Large, in the above cause. THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're on the video record. This is the 8th day of October, 2009, and the time it approximately 10:07 a.m. This is the continuation of the videotaped deposition of Jeffrey Epstein in the matter of versus Epstein. This deposition is being held at 250 South Australian Avenue, No. 1400 in West Palm Beach, Florida. My name is Dan Doskey I'm the videographer EFTA01158523 16 representing Visual Evidence, Incorporated. 17 Would the attorneys present please announce 18 their appearances for the record? 19 MR. KUVIN: Spencer Kuvin and Adam Langino on 20 behalf of the Plaintiff, §§§. 21 MS. HOLMES: Cara Holmes for III. 22 MR. PIKE: Michael Pike on behalf of 23 Jeffrey Epstein. 24 MR. GOLDBERGER: And Jack Goldberger on behalf 25 of Jeffrey Epstein. 0020 1 Kathy, do you want to identify yourself? 2 Kathy, are you there? 3 MS. EZELL: Yes. 4 MR. PIKE: She puts it on mute every once in a 5 while. 6 MR. GOLDBERGER: Hey, Kathy, are you there? 7 MS. EZELL: Yes. 8 MR. GOLDBERGER: Just -- we're just 9 identifying everyone who's on this thing. Can you 10 just identify yourself? 11 MS. EZELL: Yes. It's Kathy Ezell. I'm 12 sorry, Kathy Ezell is here. 13 - - - 14 Thereupon, 15 (JEFFREY EPSTEIN) 16 having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was examined 17 and testified as follows: 18 THE WITNESS: Yes, ma'am. 19 MR. PIKE: Pull that back, please. 20 MR. KUVIN: Back? 21 MR. PIKE: Yeah, not on the video. I want to 22 make sure it's not on the video. 23 MR. KUVIN: We're good? Thank you. 24 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: It's not. 25 DIRECT EXAMINATION 0021 1 BY MR. KUVIN: 2 Q. Could you give us your name, sir, please. 3 A. Jeffrey Epstein. 4 MR. GOLDBERGER: Kathy, you've got to put it 5 on mute. Kath -- Kathy? 6 MS. EZELL: Give me one second. 7 MR. GOLDBERGER: Just put it on mute, please. 8 MR. KUVIN: You can probably turn the volume 9 down; it won't effect her mic, I would imagine. 10 MR. GOLDBERGER: Good idea. Okay. 11 BY MR. KUVIN: 12 Q. Mr. Epstein, is your date of birth, 13 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Race is White? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. You are male? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Hair is gray? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Eyes are blue? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Height is 6-foot tall? 24 A. Correct. 25 Q. Weight is 180 pounds? 0022 EFTA01158524 1 A. Correct. 2 Q. Mr. Epstein, on January 30th of 2008, isn't it 3 true that you pled guilty to procuring a person under 4 the age of 18 for prostitution? 5 A. No. 6 Q. You did not plead guilty? 7 A. You asked me -- do you want to repeat it? 8 Q. Did you plead guilty to procuring a person 9 under the age of 18 for prostitution? 10 A. On what date? 11 Q. Regardless of the date, did you plead guilty 12 to procuring a person under the age of 18 for 13 prostitution? 14 MR. GOLDBERGER: Do you need to take a break? 15 MR. KUVIN: I'm sorry, what are we doing? 16 MR. GOLDBERGER: I'm taking a break to talk to 17 my client. 18 MR. KUVIN: For what reason? 19 MR. GOLDBERGER: Whether we have to invoke a 20 privilege or not. 21 MR. KUVIN: Okay. 22 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the record at 23 10:10. 24 (A brief recess was taken.) 25 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're back on the record at 0023 1 10:12. 2 BY MR. KUVIN: 3 Q. Okay. Mr. Epstein, did you plead guilty to 4 procuring a person under the age of 18 for prostitution? 5 A. I pled guilty procuring a minor, I believe, 6 for prostitution. 7 Q. When did you plead guilty to that charge? 8 A. On June the 30th. 9 Q. And did you procure a minor for prostitution 10 in compliance with that charge? 11 A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant 12 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the 13 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot 14 provide answers to any questions relevant to this 15 lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 16 6th Amendment right to effective representation. 17 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights 18 as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the 19 US Constitution. 20 Q. Okay. I'd like to mark as Exhibit 1 the 21 Florida Department of Law Enforcement Sexual 22 Offender/Predator Flyer. 23 MR. KUVIN: For the record, let me show that 24 to Mr. -- well, let me show that to the camera, 25 first. 0024 1 Okay. Let me know when you have it. 2 (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 1 was marked for 3 identification.) 4 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Okay. 5 MR. KUVIN: Okay? 6 BY MR. KUVIN: 7 Q. All right. Let me show you this sexual 8 offender/predator flyer. Is that you, sir? 9 A. It's a photograph of me, yes. 10 Q. Okay. Is that the predator flyer for you? 11 A. No, it is not. EFTA01158525 12 Q. Who's it for? 13 A. It's a sexual offender flyer. 14 Q. I'm sorry, I was reading the title where it 15 says "Predator Flyer." Do you see that? 16 A. It actually said "Sexual Offender/Predator" 17 because it's used for both categories. And if you'll 18 notice, the designation says sexual offender, which is 19 extremely different than sexual predator. 20 Q. What's your understanding of the difference 21 between the two? 22 A. I'm not -- I know I'm a sex -- I've been 23 registered as a sexual offender. 24 Q. Why are you a sexual offender? 25 MR. GOLDBERGER: Jeff. 0025 1 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all 2 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, 3 at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me 4 I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant 5 to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk 6 losing my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. Accordingly, I have to assert my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. MR. KUVIN: Let's go ahead and I'd like to mark what you're reading from here today as Exhibit 2 to the deposition. (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 2 was marked for identification.) BY MR. KUVIN: Q. Who prepared that document for you, sir? MR. GOLDBERGER: Don't answer that question, Jeffrey. It's attorney-client privileged and this is my work product, and we're not marking it, so... MR. KUVIN: I don't think you have the right to tell me what I can and can't -- MR. GOLDBERGER: You can mark it all you want -- MR. KUVIN: It's been marked. MR. GOLDBERGER: You can mark it all you want, 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0026 1 but it's not -- 2 MR. KUVIN: If you choose to -- 3 MR. GOLDBERGER: It's not -- it's not being 4 admitted into evidence. 5 MR. KUVIN: Sir, please don't interrupt me. 6 Are you -- 7 MR. GOLDBERGER: I'll interrupt you -- 8 MR. KUVIN: Are you representing Mr. Epstein 9 in this deposition or is Mr. Pike? Because I want 10 to be clear which one of you is going to be doing 11 the talking during the deposition. 12 MR. GOLDBERGER: We both are representing 13 Mr. Epstein. 14 MR. PIKE: Let's go off the record for a 15 second. 16 MR. KUVIN: No, we're not going off the 17 record. We're staying on the record and only one 18 attorney may speak at a time. 19 So right now, I'd like you all to choose. I 20 don't mind, either one of you can inject -- 21 MR. PIKE: Hold on a second. 22 MR. KUVIN: -- and represent Mr. Epstein. EFTA01158526 23 MR. GOLDBERGER: Let -- let -- let him finish. 24 Let him finish. 25 MR. KUVIN: Let me finish, please. 0027 1 Either one of you can represent Mr. Epstein, 2 but I don't want objections flying from both 3 chairs, both Mr. Epstein's criminal lawyer and his 4 civil lawyer. 5 So I'd ask you to please choose which one is 6 going to object, just like Judge Hafele has 7 required at hearings that only one attorney can 8 represent Mr. Epstein in an argument at a hearing. 9 MR. GOLDBERGER: Actually, we have two 10 different roles in this matter. I represent 11 Mr. Epstein on all criminal matters, so I'm going 12 to speak when I think it's relevant to any criminal 13 matters. And Mr. Pike represents Mr. Epstein on 14 any civil matters, and he will speak when it's 15 relevant to any civil matters. 16 BY MR. KUVIN: 17 Q. Okay. Sir, can I please have the paper back, 18 which has already been marked as Exhibit 2? 19 MR. KUVIN: Mr. Goldberger, if you choose that 20 this document is not to be produced in this case, I 21 have no objection to you sealing that document 22 until such time as Judge Hafele decides the issue 23 as to whether or not I'm allowed to mark something 24 that the witness is reading in a deposition. Is 25 that fair to you? 0028 1 MR. GOLDBERGER: You can mark anything you 2 want to mark. Go ahead and mark it, and then we'll 3 go from there. 4 MR. KUVIN: Okay, sounds good. Thank you very 5 much. 6 BY MR. KUVIN: 7 Q. Okay, sir. What I've marked as Exhibit 2, did 8 you prepare that document? 9 MR. GOLDBERGER: Attorney-client. 10 THE WITNESS: Attorney-client privilege. 11 BY MR. KUVIN: 12 Q. Sir, you are reading from a document, are you 13 not, when I ask you certain questions? 14 MR. GOLDBERGER: Attorney-client. 15 BY MR. KUVIN: 16 Q. The document that you're reading from is 17 Exhibit 2 that's in front of you right now. 18 MR. GOLDBERGER: Attorney-client. 19 BY MR. KUVIN: 20 Q. Why do you feel a need to read from a document 21 with respect to the issues of whether or not you have a 22 5th Amendment right? 23 MR. GOLDBERGER: Attorney-client. 24 BY MR. KUVIN: 25 Q. Sir, with respect to the last questions I was 0029 1 asking you about, the difference between a sexual 2 offender and a sexual predator, when Mr. Goldberg piped 3 up and said your -- 4 MR. GOLDBERGER: Goldberger. Goldberger. 5 BY MR. KUVIN: 6 Q. -- I'm sorry, Mr. Goldberger said your name in 7 order to clue you in to object on 5th Amendment EFTA01158527 8 grounds -- 9 MR. GOLDBERGER: Form. 10 BY MR. KUVIN: 11 Q. -- did you feel a need to respond at that 12 point? 13 MR. PIKE: Object to the form. 14 MR. GOLDBERGER: The invocation of 5th 15 Amendment privileges is going to be decided by me, 16 as Mr. Epstein's criminal counsel. I will make 17 that decision. 18 MR. KUVIN: Okay. I would just like to note 19 for the record that that's improper. That's not 20 what the case law says, and we'll take that up -- 21 MR. GOLDBERGER: Fair enough. 22 MR. KUVIN: -- issue with Judge Hafele? 23 BY MR. KUVIN: 24 Q. All right, sir. Do you consider yourself a 25 sexual offender or a sexual predator, which one? 0030 1 A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant 2 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the 3 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot 4 provide answers to any questions relevant to this 5 lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 6 6th Amendment right to effective representation. 7 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights 8 as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the 9 US Constitution. 10 Q. Sir, do you like having things inserted in 11 your anus for sexual gratification? 12 MR. PIKE: Objection, argumentative, 13 harassing. 14 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all 15 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, 16 at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me 17 I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant 18 to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk 19 losing my 6th Amendment right to effective 20 representation. 21 BY MR. KUVIN: 22 Q. Do you live at 35 -- 23 MR. GOLDBERGER: Hold on. 24 THE WITNESS: Excuse me, let me finish. Is 25 that fair. 0031 1 BY MR. KUVIN: 2 Q. Absolutely. I certainly want you to finish. 3 A. Accordingly, I assert my federal 4 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 5 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. 6 Q. Sir, do you live at 358 El Brillo Way, Palm 7 Beach, Florida? 8 A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant 9 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the 10 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot 11 provide answers to any questions relevant to this 12 lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 13 6th Amendment right to effective representation. 14 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional right as 15 guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US 16 Constitution. 17 Q. I noticed that Mr. Goldberger shook his head 18 when I asked you where you lived. Do you have a problem EFTA01158528 19 letting us know where you live? 20 I'm trying to understand why that issue is 21 protected by the 5th Amendment, given the fact that 22 you're required to live at that address pursuant to the 23 sexual offender flyer and pursuant to the Court's order 24 convicting you based on your guilty plea. 25 MR. PIKE: Form, argumentative. 0032 1 THE WITNESS: Do you want to repeat the 2 question? 3 BY MR. KUVIN: 4 Q. Sure. Did the Court require you to stay at 5 358 El Brillo Way on Palm Beach -- 6 (Interruption in the proceedings.) 7 BY MR. KUVIN: Q. Sir, did the Court require you to stay at 358 El Brillo Way, Palm Beach, Florida subsequent to you being released from prison? MR. PIKE: Form. THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide any answers to questions relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. MR. KUVIN: Q. Let's go ahead and mark as Exhibit 3 a nice photo of your home. (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 3 was marked for identification.) 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 BY 22 23 24 25 0033 1 BY MR. KUVIN: 2 Q. Okay. Let's get this for the camera, if I 3 could. Okay. 4 All right. I'm going to show you what I've 5 marked as Exhibit 3. Is that a photograph of your home, 6 sir, at 358 El Brillo Way? 7 A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant 8 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the 9 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot 10 provide answers to any questions relevant to this 11 lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 12 6th Amendment right to effective representation. 13 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights 14 as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the 15 US Constitution. 16 Q. I had asked you before whether or not you 17 liked things inserted in your anus for sexual 18 gratification, and I'd like to go back to that for a 19 moment, if I could. 20 Have you read the police report, incident 21 report, on your arrest? 22 MR. PIKE: Form, argumentative, harassing. 23 MR. GOLDBERGER: Attorney-client work product. 24 BY MR. KUVIN: 25 Q. Sir, according to the report, there was a 0034 1 purple item retrieved from your trash at 358 El Brillo 2 Way that appeared to be a device known as a jelly anal 3 wand. Have you ever heard of something like that? EFTA01158529 4 MR. PIKE: Form, argumentative, harassing. 5 Same objections, attorney-client work product. 6 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all 7 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, 8 at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me 9 I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant 10 to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk 11 losing my 6th Amendment right to effective 12 representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal 13 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th 14 and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. 15 BY MR. KUVIN: 16 Q. Outside of your home at 358 El Brillo Way was 17 also recovered a 3-inch purple-sized finger -- I'm 18 sorry, a 3-inch purple finger-sized object which had a 19 broken end, which is apparently a sexual toy similar -- 20 similar to a cyclone vibrator possibly used for rectal 21 gratification. 22 Do you know what a cyclone vibrator is? 23 A. No. 24 MR. PIKE: Form, harassing. 25 THE WITNESS: No, but I do know that that 0035 1 MR. PIKE: Same objections. 2 THE WITNESS: -- broken purple object turned 3 out to be, later on, described as a salad fork from 4 the kitchen, strictly something that had been 5 broken in the dishwasher and then reported it in a 6 report obviously inaccurately. 7 BY MR. KUVIN: 8 Q. Okay. So the broken -- 9 A. Salad fork, nothing more than a broken salad 10 fork, correct. 11 Q. So the 3-inch purple finger-sized object was a 12 salad fork? 13 A. Was a broken handle of a salad fork. Yes, the 14 question has been asked and answered, I believe. 15 Q. Okay. When did you see that? 16 MR. PIKE: Form. 17 THE WITNESS: See what? 18 BY MR. KUVIN: 19 Q. Well, you called -- 20 A. See that. What's the that? 21 Q. You called it a salad fork. 22 When did you see the salad fork after the 23 police had taken it into custody? 24 MR. PIKE: Form. 25 THE WITNESS: I did not see the salad fork, 0036 1 nor did I represent that I did see the salad fork. 2 BY MR. KUVIN: 3 Q. Okay. So you have no idea what it was that 4 the police took out of the trash? 5 A. The police -- 6 MR. PIKE: Form. 7 THE WITNESS: -- filed a later report saying 8 it was a salad fork, I believe. 9 BY MR. KUVIN: 10 Q. You never saw that piece, did you? 11 A. No. 12 Q. You have no idea what it was that they took 13 out of there? 14 MR. PIKE: Form. EFTA01158530 15 THE WITNESS: I just said the police said it 16 was a salad fork, a mere salad fork misrepresented 17 in that police report, as many things have been, it 18 seems. 19 BY MR. KUVIN: 20 Q. Did they misrepresent the jelly anal wand? 21 A. I've -- 22 MR. PIKE: Form. 23 THE WITNESS: -- never heard of that before. 24 BY MR. KUVIN: 25 Q. Have you used vibrators that you've placed in 0037 1 your anus? 2 MR. PIKE: Form, objection, harassing. 3 THE WITNESS: No. 4 BY MR. KUVIN: 5 Q. You never placed anything like a vibrator in 6 your anus? 7 MR. PIKE: Same objections. 8 THE WITNESS: No. 9 BY MR. KUVIN: 10 Q. There was in a dresser of an armoire of your 11 home 12 MR. KUVIN: This is page 44, Counsel. I'd 13 like to reference it. 14 THE WITNESS: Is that marked as an exhibit? I 15 don't know what he's reading. 16 MR. PIKE: It's not marked as an exhibit. 17 THE WITNESS: The police report? 18 BY MR. KUVIN: 19 Q. No, it's not. It's my work product, much like 20 how Mr. Goldberger felt that your 5th Amendment was your 21 work product. 22 MR. KUVIN: So let's mark this as exhibit 23 what are we up to, 4? 24 COURT REPORTER: 4. 25 0038 1 (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 4 was marked for 2 identification.) 3 MR. KUVIN: Okay. All right. If we could, 4 just get a shot of that for me. 5 Okay, thank you. 6 BY MR. KUVIN: 7 Q. According to the incident report, in a room of 8 your home -- 9 MR. PIKE: What page are you on, Counsel? 10 MR. KUVIN: Page 44. 11 MR. PIKE: What paragraph? 12 MR. KUVIN: Line 4. 13 BY MR. KUVIN: 14 Q. -- in a dresser armoire was located a bottle 15 of peach-flavored Joy Jelly, parenthetically a sexual 16 lubricant. 17 I have here something called Joy Jelly. I 18 even have peach. Do you know what that is? 19 MR. PIKE: Form objection, harassing. 20 MR. GOLDBERGER: Can you just clarify the 21 question as to where you got that? Did that come 22 from your home or from somewhere else, Mr. Kuvin? 23 MR. KUVIN: I don't think that's relevant. 24 MR. GOLDBERGER: Just curious as to what 25 you're -- you've made a big point to identify this, EFTA01158531 0039 1 this exhibit, and show it to the camera. So if my 2 client is going to answer the question, I'd like to 3 know whether it came from your home or from -- 4 whether you bought it or where it came from just so 5 he can -- just so he can accurately answer the 6 question should he choose to want to answer it. 7 MR. KUVIN: Well, he can make the choice 8 whether he wants to answer it or not. 9 MR. GOLDBERGER: All right. 10 BY MR. KUVIN: 11 Q. Do you know what that is? 12 MR. PIKE: Form objection, improper 13 hypothetical. 14 THE WITNESS: I don't understand the question. 15 BY MR. KUVIN: 16 Q. Do you know what Exhibit 4 is? 17 A. You've just described it. I have no knowledge 18 but what you've just described. 19 Q. You don't know what that's used for? 20 MR. PIKE: Form objection, harassing. 21 THE WITNESS: I've heard what you said it's 22 used for. I've never seen it before. 23 BY MR. KUVIN: 24 Q. Do you know what that, right there, Exhibit 4, 25 this peach-flavored -- 0040 1 A. You've asked me that question already. 2 Q. -- Joy Jelly, do you know what it's used for? 3 MR. PIKE: Asked and answered. 4 BY MR. KUVIN: 5 Q. Not this bottle, but Joy Jelly, do you know 6 what it's used for? 7 MR. PIKE: Same objection, harassing, asked 8 and answered. 9 BY MR. KUVIN: 10 Q. You can answer. 11 A. I've already told you. 12 Q. You still haven't answered the question. 13 MR. PIKE: Counsel, he answered the question. 14 It's been asked and answered twice. 15 MR. GOLDBERGER: Let's get a read-back on 16 this. 17 MR. KUVIN: Sure. I'd like to hear the 18 answer. 19 MR. GOLDBERGER: From the start of the line of 20 questioning. 21 COURT REPORTER: From the first time it was 22 asked? 23 MR. GOLDBERGER: Yes, please. 24 (A portion of the record was read by the 25 reporter.) 0041 1 MR. GOLDBERGER: That's all I need to hear, 2 thanks. 3 BY MR. KUVIN: 4 Q. Do you know what Joy Jelly is used for? 5 A. I've heard what you've just described. I have 6 no independent knowledge. 7 Q. You've never used Joy Jelly? 8 A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant 9 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the 10 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot EFTA01158532 11 provide an answer to any questions relevant to this 12 lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 13 6th Amendment right to effective representation. 14 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights 15 as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the 16 US Constitution. 17 Q. You agree with me that Joy Jelly is a sexual 18 lubricant that's used on sexual devices like vibrators 19 and anal jelly wands? 20 MR. PIKE: Same objections. 21 THE WITNESS: I have no knowledge of that. 22 BY MR. KUVIN: 23 Q. Do you agree that Joy Jelly is a sexual 24 lubricant? 25 A. I have no knowledge of that. 0042 1 MR. PIKE: Form, lack of predicate. 2 BY MR. KUVIN: 3 Q. Have you used it? 4 MR. PIKE: Same objection, lack of predicate, 5 no foundation, harassing. 6 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all 7 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, 8 at this time, I cannot provide any questions [sic] 9 relevant to the lawsuit. I must accept counsels' 10 advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to 11 effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my 12 federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 13 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. 14 BY MR. KUVIN: 15 Q. Would you agree with the description that you 16 are a pervert? 17 MR. PIKE: Same objection, harassing, 18 argumentative. 19 BY MR. KUVIN: 20 Q. You can answer. It's either a simple yes or 21 no. 22 A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant 23 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the 24 present time, my attorneys have counseled me that I 25 cannot provide answers to any questions relevant to this 0043 1 lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 2 6th Amendment right to effective representation. 3 Accordingly, I must assert my federal constitutional 4 rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment 5 of the US Constitution. 6 Q. Have any mental health counselors diagnosed 7 you as a sexual deviant? 8 MR. PIKE: Again, form -- 9 THE WITNESS: I don't believe so. 10 MR. PIKE: -- work product. 11 BY MR. KUVIN: 12 Q. Do you believe you're a sexual deviant? 13 MR. PIKE: Form. 14 THE WITNESS: No, I do not. 15 BY MR. KUVIN: 16 Q. Do you have sex with minors? 17 MR. PIKE: Same objection, form, 5th 18 Amendment. 19 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all 20 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, 21 at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me EFTA01158533 22 23 24 25 0044 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0045 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 a 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0046 1 2 3 4 5 6 I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. BY MR. KUVIN: Q. Would you agree that you have a psychological disorder with respect to your sexual preferences? MR. PIKE: Same objection. THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. BY MR. KUVIN: Q. Have you had sex with transsexuals? MR. PIKE: Same objection. THE WITNESS: No. BY MR. KUVIN: Q. Do you know a Ms. Cordero? A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendments to the US Constitution. Q. Do you know a Ms. MR. PIKE: Same objection. THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. BY MR. KUVIN: Q. When do you intend to fully respond? MR. PIKE: Same objection. In addition, work product, attorney-client. BY MR. KUVIN: Q. I'm sorry, I misquoted you. You said I -- you've repeated now numerous times, "I fully intend to respond," so let me rephrase my question. When do you fully intend to respond? MR. PIKE: work product. MR. KUVIN: MR. PIKE: I'm instructing BY MR. KUVIN: Same objection, attorney-client, Are you telling him not to answer? It's attorney-client, work product. him not to answer. EFTA01158534 7 Q. Okay. So despite the fact that you're reading 8 this canned statement over and over to my questions, you 9 don't want to answer any questions about the written 10 statement; isn't that true? 11 MR. PIKE: Same objection, attorney-client, 12 work product. I'm instructing the witness not to 13 answer. 14 BY MR. KUVIN: 15 Q. You don't ever fully intend to respond to 16 anything, do you? 17 MR. PIKE: Same objection. 18 BY MR. KUVIN: 19 Q. Or would you like to? 20 MR. PIKE: Same objection. Now we're getting 21 borderline harassing and argumentative. 22 I think you should move on to -- certainly you 23 didn't come here to be argumentative and harassing 24 all day, Mr. Kuvin, so I would hope that you would 25 move on to another topic. 0047 1 THE WITNESS: Jack? 2 MR. KUVIN: I'm just looking. 3 MR. GOLDBERGER: He can look at it all he 4 wants. 5 Just ask for permission next time, if you want 6 to, because it is something that I gave to my 7 client. So when you want to look -- I've let you 8 mark it. If you want to look at it, just ask my 9 permission to do so, okay? 10 MR. KUVIN: Sure. 11 MR. GOLDBERGER: Is that all right with you? 12 MR. KUVIN: Perfectly fine. 13 MR. GOLDBERGER: Thanks. 14 BY MR. KUVIN: 15 Q. Your typed paper there says that you cannot 16 provide answers. Why not? 17 MR. PIKE: Attorney-client, work product. I'm 18 instructing him not to answer. It's my work 19 product. 20 MR. KUVIN: Are you stipulating that you 21 drafted the document we've marked as Exhibit 2? 22 MR. GOLDBERGER: No such stipulation. 23 MR. PIKE: No such stipulation. 24 MR. KUVIN: Well, if it's work product -- 25 MR. PIKE: It's attorney-client, work product. 0048 1 MR. KUVIN: -- I just wanted to clarify. 2 BY MR. KUVIN: 3 Q. Did 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 BY 16 17 you have a sexual relationship with when she still had a penis? MR. PIKE: Same objection. 5th Amendment. THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant to this lawsuit. I must -- I must accept this advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. MR. KUVIN: Q. Do you know A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant EFTA01158535 18 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the 19 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot 20 provide answers to any questions relevant to this 21 lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 22 6th Amendment right to effective representation. 23 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights 24 as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the 25 US Constitution. 0049 1 Q. You agree, do you not, that is, 2 or as least was, your personal assistant for many years? 3 MR. PIKE: Same objection. 4 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all 5 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, 6 at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me 7 I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant 8 to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk 9 losing -- 10 MR. GOLDBERGER: Why don't you -- why don't 11 you wait until he's listening, so he... 12 MR. KUVIN: Oh, I don't need to listen. I've 13 heard it many times. 14 MR. GOLDBERGER: No, we're going to wait. 15 We're going to wait. 16 MR. KUVIN: Oh, no, you don't have to wait. 17 MR. GOLDBERGER: Oh, no, we will. 18 BY MR. KUVIN: 19 Q. Okay. I'm sorry, are you done? 20 A. No. 21 Q. Oh, please finish. 22 A. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 23 6th Amendment right to effective representation. 24 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights 25 as guaranteed by the 5th... 0050 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0051 1 guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US 2 Constitution. Q. Okay. Go ahead. Don't wait for me. A. -- 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. Q. Okay. You agree, would you not, that is currently dating Story Kowles, the gentleman who is sitting here in the room working for Mr. Goldberger at your deposition? A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept their advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. Q. Do you know how long has been dating Mr. Story Kowles? A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional right as EFTA01158536 3 Q. Did you introduce to Story Kowles? 4 A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant 5 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the 6 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot 7 provide answers to any questions relevant to this 8 lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 9 6th Amendment right to effective representation. 10 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights 11 as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the 12 US Constitution. 13 Q. Are you aware that one of the State 14 prosecutors, Dahlia Weiss, who was working on your 15 criminal case, was also married to a lawyer working for 16 Mr. Goldberger here? 17 MR. GOLDBERGER: Attorney-client, work 18 product. 19 Don't answer. 20 MR. KUVIN: I'm sorry, work product? 21 Somebody's marriage? 22 MR. GOLDBERGER: Uh-huh. Don't answer it. 23 MR. KUVIN: I'd like an explanation as to how 24 someone's marriage is work product on the record so 25 I can be clear to determine whether I need to bring 0052 1 that question up in front of Judge Hafele. 2 MR. PIKE: The rules do not require for 3 speaking objections, and we're going to limit 4 ourself to form and the appropriate objections 5 thereafter, which have been asserted. So there 6 does not need to be anything in the record. Should 7 you wish to file a motion, you can do so. 8 MR. KUVIN: Well, before I file such motion, I 9 think the rules also dictate that I can request an 10 explanation, which I'm doing. 11 MR. PIKE: We've already objected. 12 MR. KUVIN: Okay. 13 BY MR. KUVIN: 14 Q. Do you know Dahlia Weiss? 15 A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant 16 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the 17 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot 18 provide answers to any questions relevant to this 19 lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 20 6th Amendment right to effective representation. 21 MR. GOLDBERGER: Actually, I'll let you answer 22 the question as asked, as to do you know Dahlia 23 Weiss. 24 THE WITNESS: No, I do not. 25 0053 1 BY MR. KUVIN: 2 Q. With respect to Mr. Goldberger, your criminal 3 attorney, did you buy him a brand new BMW? 4 MR. GOLDBERGER: Don't. 5 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all 6 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, 7 at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me 8 I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant 9 to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk 10 losing my 6th Amendment right to effective 11 representation. 12 MR. GOLDBERGER: It's also attorney-client and 13 work product as to my fees. EFTA01158537 14 15 16 17 18 19 BY 20 21 22 23 BY 24 25 0054 1 reasonably calculated to lead to admissible 2 evidence in this case. 3 THE WITNESS: No. 4 BY MR. KUVIN: 5 Q. It's a shame. 6 MR. GOLDBERGER: What was that? 7 THE WITNESS: Shame, he said. 8 BY MR. KUVIN: 9 Q. Why not? 10 MR. PIKE: Objection, relevance. I'm going to 11 instruct him not to answer the question. It's 12 argumentative. 13 BY MR. KUVIN: 14 Q. Is there anyone else that you know that is 15 dating staff at Mr. Goldberger's office other than 16 and Ms. Wife -- Ms. Weiss? 17 MR. PIKE: Objection, form. 18 MR. GOLDBERGER: Whoa, whoa, whoa. First of 19 all, let's get the question right. and 20 Ms. Weiss are dating each other; is that the 21 question? 22 MR. KUVIN: No, I'll clarify. 23 MR. GOLDBERGER: Thank you. 24 BY MR. KUVIN: 25 Q. Is there anyone else that you know that's 0055 1 dating staff at Mr. Goldberger's office other than 2 , or married to staff working for 3 Mr. Goldberger other than Ms. Weiss? 4 MR. GOLDBERGER: There are people -- 5 MR. PIKE: Objection, form, multiple, 6 compound, vague, irrelevant, not reasonably 7 calculated to lead to admissible evidence. 8 MR. GOLDBERGER: Do you understand the 9 question? The question as asked: Do you know 10 anyone who dates anyone at my office? 11 THE WITNESS: This is why -- this is why we're 12 here? 13 MR. GOLDBERGER: I mean, do you know -- the 14 question is: Do you know if anyone in my office 15 dates anybody? 16 THE WITNESS: No, I do not. 17 MR. GOLDBERGER: Okay. 18 BY MR. KUVIN: 19 Q. That's a good point. I'm glad you made it. 20 No, you know why we're here? We're here to 21 ask you whether or not you had any sexual contact with 22 III. Did you? 23 A. Who? 24 Q. With a young girl that was 14 years old. THE WITNESS: Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. MR. GOLDBERGER: I'm sorry, it's also attorney-client work product as to my fees. MR. KUVIN: Q. Have you bought any new cars for your civil attorneys, like Mr. Critton? MR. PIKE: Objection, relevance. MR. KUVIN: Q. Robert Critton. MR. PIKE: Argumentative, harassing, not EFTA01158538 25 0056 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 a 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0057 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0058 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 a 9 A. What was her name? Q. ION. A. Can you refresh my recollection who she -- do you have anything to show me, something that might -- Q. I do, and I will pursuant to the confidentiality that we've previously discussed in this case. A. Q. A. So tell me who it is that you're representing? I will do that. Have you had sex with numerous girls underage? You've asked me if this -- which question -- MR. GOLDBERGER: Wait, the question was -- MR. KUVIN: I'll strike the question and rephrase. MR. GOLDBERGER: Which question are you striking? MR. KUVIN: I will strike all of them and rephrase. BY MR. KUVIN: Q. Did you have sex with underaged -- MR. GOLDBERGER: Sorry, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Let me just clarify. The question that you're striking is, did you have sex with a woman by the name of ill.? MR. KUVIN: Right. MR. GOLDBERGER: That's question one? And the second question you're striking is? MR. KUVIN: I'm moving on. BY MR. KUVIN: Q. Do you have sex with underaged girls? A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant questions regarding this lawsuit -- MR. GOLDBERGER: Let -- do me a favor. After you ask the question, he's going to answer it. Keep your mouth shut and let him answer the question, and don't editorialize while the question is being answered. If you want to editorialize afterwards in the form of another question, go ahead, but while he's answering the question, do not say anything. Are we -- are we clear on that? MR. KUVIN: I'm sorry, I just want to be clear, did you just tell me to keep my mouth shut? MR. GOLDBERGER: While my client is answering a question. MR. KUVIN: So you're telling me I need to keep my mouth shut? MR. GOLDBERGER: No, no. I'm telling you to -- MR. KUVIN: Is that -- I'm sorry, I thought that's what I heard. MR. GOLDBERGER: Spencer, I'm not MR MR into an MR me if I MR what . KUVIN: I just wanted to make . GOLDBERGER: Spencer, I'm not argument with you. I want you . KUVIN: I don't want to argue. was clear -- . GOLDBERGER: Let me -- let me sure. going to get to act -- You asked finish MR. KUVIN: -- and I just wanted to be clear. MR. GOLDBERGER: Are you -- are you going to EFTA01158539 10 let me finish what I'm saying? 11 MR. KUVIN: I just wanted to know if I was 12 clear. You're trying to tell me to keep my mouth 13 shut. 14 MR. GOLDBERGER: All right. 15 MR. KUVIN: So I wanted to make sure that the 16 record was patently clear what you're asking me to 17 do. 18 MR. GOLDBERGER: Are you done? 19 MR. KUVIN: I'm done. 20 MR. GOLDBERGER: Okay. So the response to 21 your question is, I want you to allow my client 22 let me finish -- allow my client to finish his 23 answers. If you want to interrupt while he's 24 asking -- while he's answering a question, I'm not 25 going to allow you to do that. If you want to 0059 1 respond to a question that he answers by being 2 argumentative, you can do so, and the appropriate 3 objection will be entered. 4 My only point of my response to you was that I 5 do not want you interfering while he is answering a 6 question, that's it, okay? I just want you to act 7 ethically, honorably and fair. 8 MR. KUVIN: I would ask you to do the same 9 MR. GOLDBERGER: I'm trying. 10 MR. KUVIN: -- and to stop your speaking 11 objections. 12 MR. GOLDBERGER: I'm trying. 13 MR. KUVIN: Objection to form usually works, 14 according to our local rules. 15 MR. GOLDBERGER: Okay. 16 MR. KUVIN: Okay? Thank you. 17 Maybe when you get into the civil arena, you'd 18 understand. 19 MR. PIKE: Let's move on. 20 MR. KUVIN: But I just want to make sure that 21 you're on the same page. 22 MR. GOLDBERGER: Spencer 23 MR. PIKE: Let's move on. 24 MR. KUVIN: I appreciate it. 25 MR. GOLDBERGER: Let's move on. 0060 1 BY MR. KUVIN: 2 Q. Do you have sex with underaged girls, that's 3 the reason we're here, is it not, Mr. Epstein, to answer 4 that question? 5 MR. PIKE: Form. 6 BY MR. KUVIN: 7 Q. Do you want to answer that question for us 8 today? 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 MR. PIKE: Multiple, compound. THE WITNESS: What's the question? BY MR. KUVIN: Q. Do you have sex with underaged girls? A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendments to the EFTA01158540 21 US Constitution. 22 Q. Isn't it true that you like to have sex with 23 little girls? 24 MR. PIKE: Same objection. 25 0061 1 BY MR. KUVIN: 2 Q. Girls under the age of 18? 3 MR. PIKE: Argumentative, harassing. 4 THE WITNESS: One question or two? 5 BY MR. KUVIN: 6 Q. Isn't it true that you like to have sex with 7 little girls who are under the age of 18? 8 MR. PIKE: Argumentative, harassing. 9 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all 10 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, 11 at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me 12 I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant 13 to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk 14 losing my 6th Amendment right to effective 15 representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal 16 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th 17 and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. 18 BY MR. KUVIN: 19 Q. Isn't it true that you've asked little girls 20 under the age of 18 to see their vaginas? 21 MR. PIKE: Same objection, argumentative, 22 harassing. 23 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all 24 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, 25 at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me 0062 1 I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant 2 to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk 3 losing my 6th Amendment right to effective 4 representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal 5 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th 6 and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. 7 BY MR. KUVIN: 8 Q. Isn't true that you've sexually molested girls 9 under the age of 18? 10 MR. PIKE: Same objection. 11 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all 12 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, 13 at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me 14 I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant 15 to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk 16 losing my 6th Amendment right to effective 17 representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal 18 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th 19 and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. 20 BY MR. KUVIN: 21 Q. Isn't it true that you've asked numerous, 22 possibly hundreds, of underaged girls to have sex with 23 you? 24 MR. PIKE: Same objection, argumentative, 25 harassing. 0063 1 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all 2 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, 3 at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me 4 I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant 5 to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk EFTA01158541 6 losing my 6th Amendment right to effective 7 representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal 8 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th 9 and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. 10 BY MR. KUVIN: 11 Q. Isn't it true that you've told to 12 avoid service of a witness subpoena in this case because 13 she has information that would incriminate you? 14 A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant 15 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the 16 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot 17 provide answers to any questions relevant to this 18 lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 19 6th Amendment right to effective representation. 20 MR. PIKE: In addition, the question is 21 argumentative; same objection as before. 22 BY MR. KUVIN: 23 Q. Isn't it true that you conspired with to obtain girls under the age of 18 to come to 25 your home, get naked and give you massages while you 0064 1 masturbated? 2 MR. PIKE: Same objections, argumentative, 3 harassing. 4 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all 5 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, 6 at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me 7 I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant 8 to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk 9 losing my 6th Amendment right to effective 10 representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal 11 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th 12 and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. 13 BY MR. KUVIN: 14 Q. Are you treating with a mental health 15 counselor currently? 16 A. No. 17 MR. PIKE: Work product. 18 BY MR. KUVIN: 19 Q. Did you go to the mental health counselor as 20 required by your plea of guilty? 21 A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant 22 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the 23 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot 24 provide answers to any questions relevant to this 25 lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 0065 1 6th Amendment right to effective representation. 2 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights 3 as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the 4 US Constitution. 5 May we take a break? 6 MR. GOLDBERGER: Sure. 7 MR. PIKE: In addition to that, it's a 8 psychotherapist/patient privileged information. 9 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're off the record at 10 10:50. 11 (A brief recess was taken.) 12 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the record at 13 11:00. 14 MR. KUVIN: Thank you. 15 BY MR. KUVIN: 16 Q. Isn't it try, sir, that you've had under EFTA01158542 17 girl -- underaged girls, under the age of 17, come to 18 your home, get naked and give you massages while you 19 masturbated? 20 MR. PIKE: Objection, form, argumentative, 21 harassing. 22 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all 23 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, 24 at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me 25 I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant 0066 1 2 3 4 5 6 BY 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 BY 23 24 25 0067 1 MR. PIKE: Same objections. 2 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all 3 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, 4 at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me 5 I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant 6 to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk 7 losing my 6th Amendment right to effective 8 representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal 9 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th 10 and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. 11 May I see -- talk to my counsel for a second 12 outside? 13 MR. KUVIN: Sure. 14 MR. PIKE: Are we off? 15 MR. KUVIN: Not yet. 16 MR. PIKE: We're off the record. 17 MR. KUVIN: We're off that record. We're not 18 off that record until everybody leaves. 19 MR. PIKE: Stop the video. The video off 20 the record. 21 MR. KUVIN: I can't go off the record if it 22 has to do with the lawsuit. 23 MR. PIKE: We don't have anyone here. 24 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: You know that you both have 25 to agree for us to go off the record. 0068 1 MR. PIKE: We don't have anyone here. to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. Accordingly, I must assert my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. MR. KUVIN: Q. Isn't it true, sir, that you've had underaged girls under the age of 16 come to your home, get naked and give you massages while you masturbated? MR. PIKE: For purposes of the record, I'm just going to say same objection relating back to the same objections. THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. MR. KUVIN: Q. Isn't it true that you've had underaged girls under the age of 15 come to your home, get naked and give you massages while you masturbated? EFTA01158543 2 MR. KUVIN: I understand that, but I am not 3 going off the record unless it's not pertaining to 4 the lawsuit. If it's not pertaining to the lawsuit 5 that we're here about today, I'll go off the 6 record, but if it pertains to the lawsuit, I cannot go off the record. MR. PIKE: I don't -- I don't understand. You don't have a witness in a chair and you're rolling tape. MR. KUVIN: Exactly. My tape is going to constantly roll with respect to the litigation. MR. PIKE: And the point? MR. KUVIN: The point is I don't want to miss anything, and I want to make sure there's no misrepresentations about what goes on with respect to the litigation. MR. PIKE: Then I'm instructing you to keep rolling tape, and for you to keep typing to everything that they say out loud in this room. MR. KUVIN: Not when everybody leaves. We're good now. He wants to go off and I want to go off now. THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We'll go off the record at 11:03. 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0069 1 Does he, though? 2 MR. KUVIN: I don't know. It's a good 3 question. 4 MS. EZELL: Did you ask me if I'm on? 5 MR. KUVIN: Oh, no. 6 Hey, how are you? I keep forgetting you're 7 there, Katherine. 8 MS. EZELL: I'm there. Actually I was on the 9 phone, so I just missed what just happened. Are 10 you terminating or are you breaking or what? 11 MR. KUVIN: No, he wanted to step out of the 12 room. 13 MS. EZELL: Oh, okay. 14 MR. GOLDBERGER: Okay, thank you. 15 I had to discuss an issue with my client. I 16 appreciate the time. 17 MR. KUVIN: Anytime, Jack. 18 MR. GOLDBERGER: You know you don't like me 19 anymore. 20 MR. KUVIN: The secret is I never liked you. 21 THE WITNESS: That's no secret. 22 MR. KUVIN: There you go. 23 MR. PIKE: Move up the record for me so I can 24 see 25 MR. KUVIN: Are we ready? 0070 1 MR. PIKE: No. 2 MR. GOLDBERGER: I'm sorry, you ready? 3 MR. PIKE: Okay. 4 MR. KUVIN: Are we ready now? 5 MR. GOLDBERGER: Yep. 6 MR. KUVIN: Rolling? 7 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're rolling at 11:05. 8 BY MR. KUVIN: 9 Q. Okay. Isn't it true, sir, that you've had 10 underaged girls under the age of 14 come to your home, 11 get naked and give you massages while you masturbated? 12 MR. PIKE: Argumentative, harassing, EFTA01158544 13 irrelevant. Same objections as before. 14 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all 15 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, 16 at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me 17 I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant 18 to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk 19 losing my 6th Amendment right to effective 20 representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal 21 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th 22 and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. 23 BY MR. KUVIN: 24 Q. Isn't it true, sir, that you've had underaged 25 girls under the age of 13 come to your home, get naked 0071 1 and give you massages while you masturbated? 2 MR. PIKE: Same objections. In addition, 3 asked and answered. 4 MR. KUVIN: No, I changed from 14 to 13. 5 MR. PIKE: Same objections. 6 BY MR. KUVIN: 7 Q. You can answer. 8 A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant 9 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the 10 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot 11 provide answers to any questions relevant to this 12 lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 13 6th Amendment right to effective representation. 14 MR. GOLDBERGER: Thank you, Michael. 15 THE WITNESS: Accordingly, I assert my federal 16 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th 17 and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. 18 Thank you. 19 BY MR. KUVIN: 20 Q. Isn't it true, sir, that you've had underage 21 girls under the age of 12 come to your home, get naked 22 and give you massages while you masturbated? 23 MR. PIKE: Same objections. 24 BY MR. KUVIN: 25 Q. I'm sorry, was there something funny about 0072 1 that question? 2 A. Are we -- 3 MR. PIKE: Same objection, argumentative. 4 MR. GOLDBERGER: Don't even respond to that. 5 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all 6 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, 7 at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me 8 I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant 9 to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk 10 losing my 6th Amendment right to effective 11 representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal 12 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th 13 and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. 14 BY MR. KUVIN: 15 Q. Isn't it true that you've engaged in sexual 16 activities with girls under the age of 17, including 17 touching their vaginas? 18 MR. PIKE: Same objections. 19 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all 20 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, 21 at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me 22 I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant 23 to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk EFTA01158545 24 losing my 6th Amendment right to effective 25 representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal 0073 1 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th 2 and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. 3 BY MR. KUVIN: 4 Q. Isn't it true that you've engaged in sexual 5 activities with girls under the age of 17, including 6 using vibrators on their vaginas? 7 MR. PIKE: Same objections. 8 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all 9 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, 10 at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me 11 I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant 12 to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk 13 losing my 6th Amendment right to effective 14 representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal 15 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th 16 and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. 17 BY MR. KUVIN: 18 Q. Do you agree that you maintain a home in New 19 York? 20 MR. PIKE: Objection, form. 21 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all 22 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, 23 at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me 24 I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant 25 to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk 0074 1 losing my 6th Amendment right to effective 2 representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal 3 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th 4 and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. 5 BY MR. KUVIN: 6 Q. Your name is Jeffrey Epstein, correct? 7 A. Correct. 8 Q. I just wanted to see if I could get an answer. 9 MR. PIKE: I'm going to move to strike 10 counsel's last statement; it's not a question. 11 BY MR. KUVIN: 12 Q. Do you agree you maintain a home in New 13 Mexico? 14 A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant 15 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the 16 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot 17 provide answers to any questions relevant to this 18 lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 19 6th Amendment right to effective representation. 20 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights 21 as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the 22 US Constitution. 23 Q. Isn't it true that you've engaged in sexual 24 activities with girls under the age of 16, including 25 touching their vaginas? 0075 1 MR. PIKE: Objection, harassing, 2 argumentative. 3 THE WITNESS: Didn't you ask the same question 4 before? 5 BY MR. KUVIN: 6 Q. No, it was 17 before; now I went to 16. 7 MR. PIKE: Same objection. 8 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all EFTA01158546 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 BY 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0076 1 MR. PIKE: Same objection, asked and answered. 2 BY MR. KUVIN: 3 Q. You can answer. 4 A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant 5 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the 6 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot 7 provide answers to any questions relevant to this 8 lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 9 6th Amendment right to effective representation. 10 Accordingly, I must assert my federal constitutional 11 rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment 12 to the US Constitution. 13 Q. Have you requested girls under the age of 16 14 to spread their legs in front of you so that you could 15 see their vaginas? 16 MR. PIKE: Same objection. 17 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all 18 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, 19 at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me 20 I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant 21 to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk 22 losing my 6th Amendment right to effective 23 representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal 24 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th 25 and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. 0077 1 BY MR. KUVIN: 2 Q. Do you agree that you maintain a home in the 3 US Virgin Islands? 4 A. As I've answered most of your questions today, 5 I'll answer this basically the same way, which is, I 6 fully intend to respond to all relevant questions 7 regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my 8 attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide answers to 9 any questions relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept 10 this advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to 11 effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my 12 federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 13 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. 14 Q. Do you want to give answers? 15 MR. PIKE: Move to strike, argumentative, 16 harassing. 17 Mr. Kuvin, I have no reticence with regard to 18 getting in front of Judge Hafele once again, and 19 let me delineate for you what your comments and relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. MR. KUVIN: Q. Isn't it true that you've engaged in sexual activities with girls under the age of 16, including using vibrators on their vaginas? MR. PIKE: Same objection, asked and answered. MR. KUVIN: Nope. The question before, and we can read it back, was whether he touched their vaginas, and this question is very specific asking whether he used vibrators on their vaginas. EFTA01158547 20 some of your conduct here today is and has been: 21 Laughing, argumentative comments after your 22 questioning, interrupting the witness, snide 23 comments, as well as slamming doors in an office 24 that is not yours. 25 Now, if you continue to disrupt the discovery 0078 1 process, we will once again terminate this 2 deposition. I am giving you a fair opportunity to 3 continue to use the discovery process in the manner 4 in which it is utilized; however, your 5 grandstanding, laughing in the background, and 6 snide comments and remarks are not appropriate 7 during the discovery process; therefore, this is my 8 one warning to you, Mr. Kuvin. 9 MR. KUVIN: I disagree. 10 MR. PIKE: I'm not asking you for an 11 agreement. Please proceed. 12 MR. KUVIN: I'm just making sure that the 13 record is clear. 14 And, by the way, you should fix the door, 15 Jack, because there's no spring on it, so when 16 somebody touches it, it goes very fast. So I 17 apologize if it did slam, and that's the only thing 18 I do agree with. 19 MR. GOLDBERGER: Okay. I appreciate the 20 apology. 21 As long as we're going to yak here, Spencer, 22 you made a comment that I should learn the rules of 23 civil procedure and learn how to conduct 24 depositions and so forth. I've been practicing 25 primarily criminal defense for 33 years, and do you 0079 1 know what, we don't play these games; we get to the 2 issues, we ask questions, we don't laugh at 3 witnesses when they give answers in depositions. 4 We're not sarcastic. We simply ask the questions 5 and act professionally, and that's all I'm asking 6 you to do in this deposition, but apparently you're 7 incapable of doing that. 8 So you're creating this environment here, 9 you're creating this atmosphere. I'm trying to be 10 polite to you, but it's becoming more and more 11 difficult. So I'm asking you to just kind of act 12 professionally and we'll get along, and we'll get 13 through this, that's all. 14 MR. KUVIN: I've been acting professionally. 15 Frankly, I wasn't the one that told the other 16 attorney to shut up. I mean, those were your 17 words, not mine. I just wanted to make sure that I 18 understood what you were saying to me. 19 MR. GOLDBERGER: It was a reaction to your -- 20 MR. KUVIN: Sir -- 21 MR. GOLDBERGER: It was a reaction to your -- 22 MR. KUVIN: -- I would appreciate it if you 23 would let me finish. 24 MR. GOLDBERGER: It was a reaction to your 25 inappropriate comments and conduct. 0080 1 MR. KUVIN: See, the problem is you keep 2 interrupting me. 3 MR. GOLDBERGER: You're the one that's 4 interrupting me, Spencer. EFTA01158548 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0081 1 your apology. 2 I have -- I have a suggestion, because 3 apparently, for whatever reason, everyone's 4 grandstanding, we just can't seem -- wait a minute, 5 let me just finish. Let me finish. 6 MR. KUVIN: I'm not grandstanding. I want to 7 get through my questions. 8 MR. GOLDBERGER: We can't seem to get along. 9 MR. KUVIN: I just want to get through the 10 questions. 11 MR. GOLDBERGER: Do you want to have the 12 mediator sit in for this deposition? Is that what 13 you want to do? 14 MR. KUVIN: No, I don't think we need it. I'm 15 working through my questions. 16 MR. GOLDBERGER: Okay, then. Go ahead. 17 MR. PIKE: Let's proceed then. 18 MR. KUVIN: Okay, great. 19 MR. GOLDBERGER: You've been warned. 20 MR. KUVIN: I don't know what the warning is 21 supposed to mean. Nobody is a judge in this room. 22 I don't think I need a warning. 23 MR. GOLDBERGER: That's why I'm suggesting 24 that -- 25 MR. KUVIN: You've been warned as well, so now 0082 1 we've both been warned. 2 MR. PIKE: Mr. Kuvin, you bring up a fabulous 3 point, a fabulous point, and I'm surprised -- 4 MR. KUVIN: It's amazing. I'm surprised that 5 I brought it up. 6 MR. PIKE: The next time you choose to laugh 7 at the witness, we'll call Judge Hafele and see 8 today what he has to say about that, okay? 9 MR. KUVIN: Perfectly fine. 10 MR. PIKE: It's a great idea. 11 MR. KUVIN: It sounds good to me. 12 MR. PIKE: So let's proceed with some relevant 13 questions. 14 And I would try to give you a hint: Keep in 15 mind the allegations in your complaint. MR. KUVIN: You want me to be courteous and let you speak, and then you continue to interrupt me when I want to respond to the nonsensical arguments that you're making, because I have been perfectly courteous here. I've been asking perfectly courteous questions, relevant questions to the case, pertinent questions to the issues in this case. So if you have a problem with the questions, then make a legal objection. You and I both know that a speaking, lengthy objection is an improper one; that objection to form is the only objection you should be making. And the only comment I made about you practicing in civil was just merely the fact that I didn't know whether you understood that objection to form covers everything. MR. GOLDBERGER: I have an -- MR. KUVIN: It certainly wasn't meant as an insult at all, and I'm sorry if you took it that way. MR. GOLDBERGER: I appreciate it. I accept EFTA01158549 16 MR. KUVIN: Sounds good to me. 17 MR. PIKE: Let's move forward. 18 BY MR. KUVIN: 19 Q. Isn't it true, sir, that you've engaged in 20 sexual activities with girls under the age of 15, 21 including touching their vaginas? 22 A. I -- 23 MR. PIKE: Argumentative, harassing, same 24 objections. Sorry. 25 THE WITNESS: I fully intend to respond to all 0083 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 BY 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0084 1 BY MR. KUVIN: 2 Q. Isn't it true that you've engaged in sexual 3 activities with girls under the age of 14 including 4 touching their vaginas? 5 MR. PIKE: Same objections. 6 THE WITNESS: As I've answered most of your 7 other questions today, I fully intend to respond to 8 all relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; 9 however, at the present time, my attorneys have 10 counseled me I cannot provide answers to any 11 questions relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept 12 this advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right 13 to effective representation. Accordingly, I assert 14 my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by 15 the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US 16 Constitution. 17 BY MR. KUVIN: 18 Q. Isn't it true that you've engaged in sexual 19 activities with girls under the age of 14, including 20 using vibrators on their vaginas? 21 MR. PIKE: Same objections. 22 THE WITNESS: I'll respond to this question in 23 the same way I've responded to some of your other 24 questions, which is, I fully intend to respond to 25 all relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; 0085 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. MR. KUVIN: Q. Isn't it true that you've engaged in sexual activities with girls under the age of 15, including using vibrators on their vaginas? MR. PIKE: Same objection. THE WITNESS: As I've answered your questions -- most of your questions today, I'll answer it the same way now, which is, I fully intend to respond to all relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. EFTA01158550 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 BY 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0086 1 BY MR. KUVIN: 2 Q. What is the youngest girl that you've had sex 3 with? 4 MR. PIKE: Form. 5 THE WITNESS: I'm going to answer that 6 question the same way I've answered most of your 7 other questions here today, which is, I fully 8 intend to respond to all relevant questions 9 regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present 10 time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot 11 provide answers to any questions that may be 12 relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept this 13 advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to 14 effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my 15 federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 16 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. 17 BY MR. KUVIN: 18 Q. What is the youngest age of a girl that has 19 given you a naked massage? 20 MR. PIKE: Form, argumentative, harassing and 21 as worded, irrelevant. 22 THE WITNESS: I'm going to answer that 23 question the same way I've answered most of your 24 other questions here today, which is, I fully 25 intend to respond to all relevant questions 0087 however, at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. MR. KUVIN: Q. Isn't it true that you've engaged in sexual activities with girls under the age of 14, which includes using vibrators on their vaginas? MR. PIKE: Same objections. THE WITNESS: I'll answer that question the same way I've answered most of your other questions here today, Mr. Kuvin, which is, I fully intend to respond to all relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide answers to any questions that may be relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept their advice or risk losing my 6th Amend -- Amendment right to effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 BY 10 11 regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide answers to any questions that may be relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. MR. KUVIN: Q. What is the youngest age of a girl you have masturbated in front of? EFTA01158551 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0088 1 BY MR. KUVIN: 2 Q. What is the youngest age of a girl that you 3 have ejaculated in front of? 4 MR. PIKE: Same objections as before to this 5 same line of questioning incorporated. 6 THE WITNESS: What was the question before 7 that, sir? 8 BY MR. KUVIN: 9 Q. What is the youngest age -- the one before or 10 this one? I'm sorry. 11 A. The one before, I thought it was the same 12 question. 13 Q. No, the one before was masturbated, and this 14 one was ejaculated. I'll rephrase it. 15 What is the youngest age of a girl you have 16 ejaculated in front of? 17 MR. PIKE: Same objection, argumentative, 18 harassing. 19 THE WITNESS: I'm going to respond to that 20 question the same way I've responded to most of 21 your other questions here today, which is, I fully 22 intend to respond to all relevant questions 23 regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present 24 time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot 25 provide answers to any questions that may be 0089 1 relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept their 2 advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to 3 effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my 4 federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. 6 BY MR. KUVIN: 7 Q. Do you agree that you have a sexual preference 8 for underaged girls; in other words, girls under the age 9 of 18? 10 MR. PIKE: Same objections, in addition to 11 form. 12 THE WITNESS: I'm going to answer that 13 question the same way I've answered most of your 14 other questions here today, Mr. Kuvin, which is, I 15 fully intend to respond to all relevant questions 16 regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present 17 time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot 18 provide answers to any questions that may be 19 relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept their 20 advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to 21 effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my 22 federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the MR. PIKE: Same objections as before. THE WITNESS: I'm going to answer that question in the same way I've answered most of your other questions here today, Mr. Kuvin, which is, I intend to respond to all relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide answers to any questions that may be relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendments to the US Constitution. EFTA01158552 23 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. 24 BY MR. KUVIN: 25 Q. Do you agree that you have a sexual preference 0090 1 for girls under the age of 17? 2 MR. PIKE: Same objections. 3 THE WITNESS: I'm going to answer that 4 question the same way I've answered most of your 5 other questions here today, Mr. Kuvin, which is, I 6 fully intend to respond to all relevant questions 7 regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present 8 time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot 9 provide answers to any questions relevant to this 10 lawsuit. I must accept their advice or risk losing 11 my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. 12 BY MR. KUVIN: 13 Q. Do you agree that you -- 14 A. Accordingly -- 15 Q. Oh, I apologize. 16 A. Accordingly, I assert my federal 17 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 18 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. 19 Q. I'm sorry, are you done? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Okay. I apologize for interrupting you. 22 Do you agree that you have a sexual preference 23 for girls under the age of 16? 24 MR. PIKE: Same objections, form. 25 THE WITNESS: I'm going to answer that 0091 1 question the same way I've answered most of your 2 other questions here today. I fully intend to 3 respond to all relevant questions regarding this 4 lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys 5 have counseled me I cannot provide answers to any 6 questions that may be relevant to this lawsuit. I 7 must accept their advice or risk losing my 6th 8 Amendment right to effective representation. 9 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional 10 rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th 11 Amendment of the US Constitution. 12 BY MR. KUVIN: 13 Q. Do you agree that you have a sexual preference 14 for girls under the age of 15? 15 MR. PIKE: Same objections. 16 THE WITNESS: I'm going to answer that 17 question the same way I've answered most of your 18 other questions here today, Mr. Kuvin, which is, I 19 fully intend to respond to all relevant questions 20 regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present 21 time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot 22 provide answers to any questions relevant to this 23 lawsuit. I must accept their advice or risk losing 24 my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. 25 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional 0092 1 rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th 2 Amendment to the US Constitution. 3 BY MR. KUVIN: 4 Q. Do you agree that you have a sexual preference 5 for girls under the age of 14? 6 MR. PIKE: Same objections. 7 THE WITNESS: I'm going to answer that EFTA01158553 8 question the same way I've answered most of your 9 other questions here today, Mr. Kuvin, which is, I 10 fully intend to respond to all relevant questions 11 regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present 12 time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot 13 provide answers to any questions relevant to this 14 lawsuit. I must accept their advice or risk losing 15 my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. 16 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional 17 rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th 18 Amendment to the US Constitution. 19 BY MR. KUVIN: 20 Q. Do you agree that you have a sexual preference 21 for girls under the age of 13? 22 MR. PIKE: Same objection. 23 THE WITNESS: I'm going to answer that 24 question the same way I've answered most of your 25 other questions today, which is, I fully intend to 0093 1 respond to all relevant questions regarding this 2 lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys 3 have counseled me I cannot provide answers to any 4 questions that may be relevant to this lawsuit. I 5 must accept this advice or risk losing my 6th 6 Amendment right to effective representation. 7 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional 8 rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th 9 Amendment to the US Constitution. 10 BY MR. KUVIN: 11 Q. Do you agree that you have a sexual preference 12 for girls under the age of 12? 13 MR. PIKE: Objection, harassing. In addition, 14 vague and indefinite, form. 15 THE WITNESS: I'm going to answer that 16 question the same way I've answered your other 17 questions here today, which is, I intend to respond 18 to all relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; 19 however, at the present time, my attorneys have 20 counseled me I cannot provide answers to any 21 questions relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept 22 this advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right 23 to effective representation. Accordingly, I assert 24 my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by 25 the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US 0094 1 Constitution. 2 BY MR. KUVIN: 3 Q. Do you agree that you've been treating with a 4 psychologist for your sexual perversions? 5 MR. PIKE: Objection, vague, harassing, also 6 psychotherapist/patient privilege; in addition, 7 could call for their information resulting from 8 non-testifying consulting expert information. 9 I'm going to instruct the witness not to 10 answer. 11 BY MR. KUVIN: 12 Q. Do you agree that you've been treating with a 13 psychiatrist for your sexual perversions? 14 MR. PIKE: Same objection. 15 BY MR. KUVIN: 16 Q. Do you agree that according to your State 17 Court sentence, you are mandated to obtain mental health 18 counseling or therapy? EFTA01158554 19 MR. PIKE: Same objection. 20 BY MR. KUVIN: 21 Q. Who is that therapy with? 22 MR. PIKE: Let's take a break for one second. 23 We don't have to leave. 24 I'm going to maintain the same objections and 25 instructions. 0095 1 BY MR. KUVIN: 2 Q. How often are you going to that mental health 3 counselor? 4 MR. PIKE: Same objection and instruction. 5 BY MR. KUVIN: 6 Q. What do you discuss with the therapist? 7 MR. PIKE: Definitely same objection and instruction. MR. KUVIN: Q. Have you violated your probation by not going to a mental health counselor or therapist? MR. PIKE: Same objection and instruction. BY MR. KUVIN: Q. Do you agree that while in Palm Beach you've preyed on girls who are generally troubled, under the age of 17 and economically disadvantaged because you can control them better? MR. PIKE: Objection, harassing, argumentative, vague and indefinite. THE WITNESS: I'm going to answer that question the same way I've answered most of your other questions here today, which is, I fully intend to respond to all relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot 8 9 BY 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0096 1 provide answers to any questions relevant to this 2 lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing 3 my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. 4 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional 5 rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th 6 Amendment to the US Constitution. 7 BY MR. KUVIN: 8 Q. Do you agree that -- let me ask you this: Do 9 you see patterns in things? 10 MR. PIKE: Form, compound, confusing, vague. 11 THE WITNESS: I don't -- 12 BY MR. KUVIN: 13 Q. Do you understand the question? 14 A. No, I don't. 15 Q. Do you see patterns in numbers? 16 MR. PIKE: Same objection, lack of predicate, 17 foundation. 18 What are you talking about? 19 THE WITNESS: I don't understand the question. 20 BY MR. KUVIN: 21 Q. Do you recognize patterns in large numbers? 22 MR. PIKE: Same -- 23 MR. GOLDBERGER: You just asked the question 24 the same way. Just ask it a different way and 25 he'll try and answer it for you. 0097 1 MR. KUVIN: I did. I tried to clarify it. 2 MR. GOLDBERGER: You made it -- you said large 3 numbers versus numbers. EFTA01158555 4 THE WITNESS: I don't understand the question. 5 BY MR. KUVIN: 6 Q. Do you see patterns in any sequences of 7 numbers? 8 MR. PIKE: Same objection. 9 THE WITNESS: Do I see patterns? I don't 10 understand the question. 11 BY MR. KUVIN: 12 Q. Well, you developed a software to help make 13 money in the stock market, correct? 14 MR. PIKE: Objection as to relevance. 15 THE WITNESS: No, that's -- no, absolutely 16 not. 17 BY MR. KUVIN: 18 Q. It wasn't a software, a computer software, 19 that you helped to develop many years ago after leaving 20 your teaching job? 21 MR. PIKE: Same objection. 22 THE WITNESS: I don't know what you're talking 23 about. 24 BY MR. KUVIN: 25 Q. Let's go back. You took classes at Cooper 0098 1 Union from 1969 to 1971, correct? 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. Okay. You were raised in Coney Island? 4 A. Correct. 5 Q. You attended Lafayette High School in 6 Brooklyn, New York? 7 A. Is that a question? 8 Q. Yes. Did you attend -- I'm sorry, did you 9 attend Lafayette High School in Brooklyn, New York? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And you took classes at -- oh, I asked that, 12 I'm sorry. 13 You went to Courant Institute of Mathematical 14 Sciences where you left without a degree, correct? 15 A. Correct. 16 Q. From '73 to '75, you taught calculus and 17 physics at The Dalton School? 18 A. I'm not sure those years are correct. 19 Q. What years were you at Dalton? 20 A. I believe it was '74 to '76. 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. I'm not certain. 23 Q. Okay. Now, Dalton School is a high school, 24 correct? 25 A. Correct. 0099 1 Q. What were the ages of the children you were 2 teaching at that high school? 3 A. Mostly old -- mostly 17 and 18. 4 Q. Okay. So you were teaching seniors? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. What were you teaching? 7 A. You just asked that question, mathematics and 8 physics. 9 Q. You're right, I apologize. 10 Were you teaching any girls that were under 11 the age of 17 at the time? 12 A. I don't know. 13 Q. Did you have any sexual contact with any of 14 the girls that you were teaching at Dalton? EFTA01158556 15 A. Again? 16 Q. Did you have any sexual contact with the girls 17 that you were teaching at Dalton? 18 A. While I was a teacher? 19 Q. Well, let's start with that question, yes. 20 A. No. 21 Q. How about after? 22 A. Not that I remember. 23 Q. Did you date any girls that were previously 24 your student at Dalton? 25 A. I'm going to answer that question like every 0100 1 other question I've answered today, which is, I intend 2 to respond to all relevant questions regarding this 3 lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys have 4 counseled me I cannot provide answers to any questions 5 that may be relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept 6 this advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to 7 effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my 8 federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 9 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. 10 Q. You do not have a college degree, correct? 11 A. Correct. 12 Q. Regardless of that, you became a trader at 13 Bear Stearns at some point, correct? 14 MR. PIKE: Form. 15 BY MR. KUVIN: 16 Q. Let me ask it a different way if you're 17 confused. You look confused. 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. You became a trader at Bear Stearns without a 20 college degree; is that correct? 21 A. No. 22 Q. You had -- 23 A. I was never a trader. 24 Q. I'm sorry. What job did you hold at 25 Bear Stearns? 0101 1 MR. PIKE: I'd like to take a break and speak 2 to my client. 3 MR. KUVIN: Okay. 4 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Your mic is still on, 5 Mr. Pike. 6 MR. PIKE: Thank you. I appreciate that 7 reminder. 8 MR. GOLDBERGER: Okay. 9 MR. PIKE: Go ahead. 10 MR. KUVIN: Yes. As far as I'm concerned, you 11 can cut it. 12 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Okay. We'll go off the 13 record at 11:33. 14 MR. KUVIN: As far as she is concerned, she's 15 got to keep going, so... 16 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Well, I'm going to start 17 the recording again because I -- I'm in an awkward 18 position. I'm just going to keep it going. 19 MR. KUVIN: That's not a problem. 20 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Okay. 21 MR. KUVIN: Can I make shadow animals in front 22 of you? 23 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: If you'd like. 24 MR. KUVIN: Jeana is the best court reporter I 25 have ever had in all of the hundreds of cases that EFTA01158557 0102 1 I've tried, can you believe that? 2 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: I do believe that. I do. 3 MR. KUVIN: Right. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I 4 remember you mentioned that before, right, yeah. 5 THE WITNESS: Are we off the record? 6 MR. KUVIN: Unfortunately, Mr. Pike wanted us on permanently, so we're on permanently. MR. PIKE: Actually, no. The -- I wanted to go off the record in order to, you know, conserve on Jeana's time, as well as the videographer, but Mr. Kuvin, you stated you wanted to be on the record because you wanted to ensure that everything was on the record that had to deal with this case. So now we're seeing people coming in and out of doors after they use the restroom, which I really see as a complete waste of resources. Nonetheless -- MR. GOLDBERGER: Let's all be friends here and let's just do this depo. MR. KUVIN: I just wanted to stay on the record while -- MR. GOLDBERGER: That's fine. MR. KUVIN: -- the attorneys were still in the room, that's all. MR. GOLDBERGER: That's fine. 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0103 1 MR. KUVIN: When the attorneys leave the room, 2 I don't mind going off the record. That's no 3 problem with me. 4 MR. GOLDBERGER: Let's just get along and get 5 this stuff done and move on. 6 MR. KUVIN: I'm more than happy to do that. 7 MR. GOLDBERGER: Are we cool with that? 8 MR. KUVIN: Sure. 9 MR. GOLDBERGER: Sure. 10 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Spencer, you have about 11 five minutes. 12 MR. KUVIN: Why don't you change tape so we 13 don't have to stop. 14 MR. GOLDBERGER: What time do you want to 15 stop, because I've just got some stuff that I need 16 to do at some point today. Do you want to take a 17 break or do you not -- 18 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Let me go off the record. 19 We'll go off the record at 11:36. This will be the 20 end of videotape No. 1. 21 COURT REPORTER: Are we going off the paper 22 record, too? 23 MR. KUVIN: Sure. 24 MR. PIKE: Yeah. 25 (A brief recess was taken.) 0104 1 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're back on the record at 2 11:39. This will be the beginning of tape No. 2. 3 BY MR. KUVIN: 4 Q. What job -- what job did you have at 5 Bear Stearns? 6 A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant 7 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the 8 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot 9 provide answers to any questions that may be relevant to 10 this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing EFTA01158558 11 my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. 12 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights 13 as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the 14 US Constitution. 15 MR. KUVIN: Obviously, I'm going to have to 16 take this up with Judge Hafele, but I'm trying to 17 understand, counsel, and, you know, I'm not going 18 to ask the witness obviously but how his job at 19 Bear Stearns is a potential 5th Amendment issue in 20 this case. 21 MR. PIKE: It's asked and answered. 22 MR. KUVIN: So there is no explanation? 23 MR. PIKE: You said you wanted to take it up 24 with the judge; you can take it up with the judge. 25 Number one, the relevancy of it is it's not 0105 1 applicable to your lawsuit, that -- I mean, that's 2 the large part. 3 MR. KUVIN: Relevance we can argue about. 4 MR. PIKE: Anyway, but again, I don't need to 5 make your case for you. You can make your case to 6 Judge Hafele. The privilege has been asserted. 7 BY MR. KUVIN: 8 Q. Sir, isn't it true that you do not have a 9 college degree? 10 A. Yes, that's true. 11 Q. All right. Now, you have no post-secondary 12 degrees? 13 A. No, sir. 14 Q. How did you get the job at Bear Stearns 15 without a college degree or any post-secondary degrees? 16 A. You don't need a college degree to get a job 17 with Bear Stearns. 18 Q. Who gave you the job? 19 A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant 20 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the 21 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot 22 provide answers to any questions relevant to this 23 lawsuit. I must accept their advice or risk losing my 24 6th Amendment right to effective representation. 25 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights 0106 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. Q. In 1982, you founded your own financial management firm called J. Epstein & Company; isn't that true? A. As I've answered most of your other questions today, Mr. Kuvin, I intend to fully respond to all relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept their advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. Q. The company that you founded called J. Epstein & Company later changed its name to Financial Trust Co, and its headquarters are in the private islands of the US Virgin Islands; isn't that true? A. I fully intend to respond to all relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the EFTA01158559 22 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot 23 provide answers to any questions relevant to this 24 lawsuit. I must accept their advice or risk losing my 25 6th Amendment right to effective representation. 0107 1 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights 2 as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendments to the 3 United States Constitution. 4 Q. Do you socialize with Leonard Sustein 5 (phonetic)? 6 A. I'm going to answer that question the way I've 7 answered most of your other questions here today, 8 Mr. Kuvin, which is, I intend to respond to all relevant 9 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the 10 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot 11 provide answers to any questions relevant to this 12 lawsuit. I must accept their advice or risk losing my 13 6th Amendment right to effective representation. 14 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights 15 as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the 16 US Constitution. 17 Q. Have you socialized with Richard Axle 18 (phonetic)? 19 A. I'm going to answer that question the same way 20 I've answered most of your other questions here today, 21 which is, I fully intend to respond to all relevant 22 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the 23 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot 24 provide answers to any questions relevant to this 25 lawsuit. I must accept their advice or risk losing my 0108 1 6th Amendment right to effective representation. 2 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights 3 as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the 4 US Constitution. 5 MR. PIKE: And in addition, the question lacks 6 predicate and it's vague and ambiguous. It's 7 overly broad. 8 BY MR. KUVIN: 9 Q. Do you know Gerald Edelman? 10 A. I'm going to answer that question the same way 11 I've answered most of your other questions here today, 12 Mr. Kuvin, which is, I fully intend to respond to all 13 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at 14 the present time, my attorneys have counseled me that I 15 cannot provide answers to any questions that may be 16 relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or 17 risk losing my 6th Amendment right to effective 18 representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal 19 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 20 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. 21 Q. Do you know Murray Gelman? 22 A. I'm going to answer that question the same way 23 I've answered most of your other questions here today, 24 which is, I fully intend to respond to all relevant 25 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the 0109 1 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot 2 provide answers to any questions that may be relevant to 3 this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing 4 my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. 5 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights 6 as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the EFTA01158560 7 US Constitution. 8 Q. Do you know Ben Goertzel, spelled 9 G-O-E-R-T-Z-E-L? 10 A. I'm going to answer that question the same way 11 I've answered most of your other questions here today, 12 which is, I fully intend to respond to all relevant 13 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the 14 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot 15 provide answers to any questions relevant -- was that 16 just a yawn? 17 Q. I'm sorry, yes, that was just a yawn. 18 A. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 19 6th Amendment right to effective representation. 20 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights 21 as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the 22 US Constitution. 23 Q. Do you know Marvin Minsky, M-I-N-S-K-Y? 24 A. I'm going to answer that question the same way 25 I've answered most of your other questions here today. 0110 1 I fully intend to respond to all relevant questions 2 regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my 3 attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide answers to 4 any questions relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept 5 this advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to 6 effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my 7 federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 8 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. 9 Q. Do you know a politician, George Mitchell? 10 A. I'm going to answer that question the same way 11 I've answered most of your other questions here today, 12 which is, I fully intend to respond to all relevant 13 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the 14 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot 15 provide answers to any questions relevant to this 16 lawsuit. I must accept their advice or risk losing my 17 6th Amendment right -- another yawn? 18 Q. I'm sorry, I can't help yawning. It seems to 19 be a function of the day. 20 MR. PIKE: Move to strike. 21 BY MR. KUVIN: 22 Q. I apologize. I tried to keep my mouth shut 23 for that one, so -- but I can't help it. I apologize. 24 MR. PIKE: Move to strike. 25 THE WITNESS: Accordingly, I assert my federal 0111 1 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th 2 and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. 3 BY MR. KUVIN: 4 Q. Do you know President Bill Clinton? 5 A. I'm going to respond to that question the same 6 way I've responded to most of your other questions here 7 today, which is, I intend to respond to all relevant 8 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the 9 present time, my attorneys have counseled me that I 10 cannot provide any answers to questions that may be 11 relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or 12 risk losing my 6th Amendment right to effective 13 representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal 14 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 15 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. 16 Q. Do you know Actor Kevin Spacey? 17 A. I'm going to answer that question the same way EFTA01158561 18 I've answered most of your other questions here today -- 19 MR. PIKE: Excuse me for a minute, 20 Mr. Epstein. 21 Obviously, your line of questioning is 22 personal not does -- does Mr. Epstein -- does 23 Mr. Epstein know who President Clinton is by virtue 24 of him being the President of the United States. 25 You mean, does he personally know him, correct? 0112 1 MR. KUVIN: Absolutely. Thank you for the 2 clarification, and I'll clarify. Next time I can 3 rephrase, do you know them personally. I don't 4 want to have go back to every question. Do we have 5 the understanding that my questions before -- 6 MR. PIKE: Yes. MR. KUVIN: -- dealt with whether or not Mr. Epstein knew these gentleman, I was asking, personally? MR. PIKE: Yes. I want the record to be clear. I don't want you to later say that how could Mr. Epstein not know who President Clinton is by virtue of him being the President of the United States at some point in time, and vice versa with Kevin Spacey and whoever else you -- so, yes, we have that agreement on a personal basis. MR. KUVIN: Okay, perfectly fine. MR. KUVIN: Q. Do you know Actor Kevin Spacey personally? A. I'm going to answer that question the same way I've answered most of your other questions here today, which is, I intend to respond to all relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, I cannot provide questions to any questions relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 BY 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0113 1 my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. 2 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights 3 as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the 4 US Constitution. 5 Another yawn? That's pretty good. Try to -- 6 Q. That was just a breath, actually, a deep 7 breath, that's all. Thank you for paying attention. 8 Do you know Actor Chris Tucker personally? 9 A. I'm going to answer that question the same way 10 I've answered most of your other questions here today, 11 which is, I intend to respond to all relevant questions 12 regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my 13 attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide answers to 14 any questions that may be relevant to this lawsuit. I 15 must accept their advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment 16 right to effective representation. Accordingly, I 17 assert my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by 18 the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. 19 Q. Do you own -- do you own a Boeing 727? 20 MR. PIKE: I'm sorry, Spencer, I didn't hear 21 you. Can you repeat the question? 22 MR. KUVIN: Sure. 23 BY MR. KUVIN: 24 Q. Do you own a Boeing 727? 25 MR. PIKE: Form objection, relevance. 0114 1 THE WITNESS: I'm going to -- 2 MR. KUVIN: Hang on. EFTA01158562 3 THE WITNESS: Excuse me. 4 MR. KUVIN: I'm sorry, what's the form 5 objection? 6 MR. PIKE: It's a form objection and relevance 7 followed thereafter. 8 MR. KUVIN: I just wanted to correct the form 9 if there was something wrong with the form. Is 10 there anything particular with the form I need to 11 correct? 12 MR. PIKE: Form, relevance. 13 BY MR. KUVIN: 14 Q. Do you own a Boeing 727? 15 A. I'm going to answer that -- 16 (Interruption in the proceedings.) 17 UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Carl, is here for, 18 Mr. Kuvin. 19 MR. KUVIN: Who? 20 UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: He said he was expecting 21 him. 22 MR. KUVIN: Please let him know we're going to 23 be taking a break at 12:00, and if he could wait. 24 Thank you. 25 BY MR. KUVIN: 0115 1 Q. I apologize for the interruption. 2 A. No problem. 3 I'm going to answer that question the same way 4 I've answered most of your other questions here today, 5 which is, I fully intend to respond to all relevant 6 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the 7 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot 8 provide answers to any questions relevant to this 9 lawsuit. I must accept their advice or risk losing my 10 6th Amendment right to effective representation. 11 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights 12 as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the 13 US Constitution. 14 Q. Have you ever referred to your Boeing 727 15 plane as "Air Fuck One"? 16 MR. PIKE: Form, argumentative, harassing. 17 THE WITNESS: I'll have to answer that the 18 same way I've answered most of your other questions 19 here today, which is, I intend to respond to all 20 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, 21 at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me 22 I cannot provide answers to any questions that may 23 be relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept their 24 advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to 25 effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my 0116 1 federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 2 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. 3 BY MR. KUVIN: 4 Q. Have you ever taken any underaged girls, girls 5 under the age of 18, on your Boeing 727? 6 A. I'm going to answer that question the same way 7 I've answered most of your other questions here today, 8 Mr. Kuvin, which is, I intend to fully respond to all 9 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at 10 this time, I cannot provide any answers to questions 11 relevant to this lawsuit as my attorneys have counseled 12 me. I must accept their advice or risk losing my 6th 13 Amendment right to effective representation. EFTA01158563 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0117 1 questions that may be relevant to the lawsuit. I 2 must accept their advice or risk losing my 6th 3 Amendment right to effective representation. 4 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional 5 rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th 6 Amendment to the US Constitution. 7 BY MR. KUVIN: 8 Q. Did you trade information with the Federal 9 authorities in order to get a lighter sentence with 10 respect to the charges brought against you in Palm Beach 11 County by the US Attorney's Office? 12 A. I'm going to answer that question the same way 13 I've answered most of your other questions here today, 14 which is, I fully intend to respond to all relevant 15 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the 16 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot 17 provide answers to any questions relevant to this 18 lawsuit. I must accept their advice or risk losing my 19 6th Amendment right to effective representation. 20 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights 21 as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the 22 US Constitution. 23 Q. Do you know, personally, Martin Nowak? 24 A. I'm going to answer that question the same way 25 I've answered most of your other questions here today, 0118 1 which is, I fully intend to respond to all relevant 2 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the 3 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot 4 provide answers to any questions that may be relevant to 5 this lawsuit. I must accept their advice or risk losing 6 my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. 7 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights 8 as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the 9 US Constitution. 10 Q. Isn't it true that you funded Mr. Nowak's 11 research at the Institute For Advanced Study in 12 Princeton? 13 A. I'm going to answer that question the same way 14 I've answered most of your other questions here today, 15 Mr. Kuvin, which is, I fully intend to respond to all 16 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at 17 the present time, my attorneys have counseled me I 18 cannot provide answers to any questions relevant to this 19 lawsuit. I must accept their advice or risk losing my 20 6th Amendment right to effective representation. 21 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights 22 as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment of the 23 US Constitution. 24 MR. PIKE: Can we go off the record for a Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. Q. Are you a confidential informant for the prosecution of Bear Stearns? MR. PIKE: Form, relevance. THE WITNESS: I'm going to answer that question the same way I've answered most of your questions here today, which is, I fully intend to respond to all relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide answers to any EFTA01158564 25 second? 0119 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0120 1 can mess with you pretty good, so I'd prefer to 2 keep going. 3 MR. KUVIN: Fine with me. 4 MR. PIKE: May we go off the record? 5 MR. KUVIN: Sure. 6 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We'll go off the record at 7 11:56. 8 (A brief recess was taken.) 9 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're back on the record at 10 12:12. 11 BY MR. KUVIN: 12 Q. Sir, isn't it true that you pledged 13 $30 million to Harvard University in 2003? 14 A. I'm going to answer that question the same way 15 I've answered most of your other questions here today, 16 which is, I intend to respond to all relevant questions 17 regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my 18 attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide answers to 19 any questions relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept 20 their advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to 21 effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my 22 federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 23 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. 24 Q. Isn't it true that that $30 million pledge to 25 Harvard was shortly before you were arrested with 0121 1 respect to the charges brought against you in Palm Beach 2 for having sex with underaged girls and soliciting 3 underaged girls for prostitution? 4 (Interruption in the proceedings.) 5 MR. GOLDBERGER: Thank you. 6 Hey Kathy, it's Jack Goldberger. You're back 7 on. 8 MS. EZELL: Okay, good. Thanks, Jack. 9 MR. GOLDBERGER: Okay. MR. KUVIN: Sure. THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record at 11:55 a.m. MR. GOLDBERGER: Here's my issue. Actually, we probably should be on the record on this one. MR. KUVIN: Are we going on? MR. GOLDBERGER: Yeah, let's go on. MR. KUVIN: Sure. THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the record at 11:55. MR. GOLDBERGER: We were just off the record and talked about taking a break, and I hate to inject personal problems into a scheduling, but I am suffering from some -- actually some nerve neurological problem. I'm on a fairly heavy steroid right now and it's causing me some issues. I didn't want to try and reset this deposition because I know, Mr. Kuvin, you wanted to take the deposition, but given the medications I'm on, I'd just assume keep going unless that's a huge problem for you. MR. KUVIN: Not a problem for me at all. Do you want to go straight through lunch? MR. GOLDBERGER: I think so. I mean, if you've ever taken steroids before, they can -- they EFTA01158565 10 MS. EZELL: I'm putting the mute on. 11 MR. GOLDBERGER: Okay. 12 THE WITNESS: Can you read me the question? 13 MR. KUVIN: Sure. Could you read it back, 14 please? 15 (A portion of the record was read by the 16 reporter.) 17 THE WITNESS: No. 18 BY MR. KUVIN: 19 Q. Isn't it true that you pledged $30 million to 20 Harvard University in 2003, which is shortly before 21 charges were brought against you in Palm Beach? 22 A. I'll answer that question the same way I've 23 answered most of your other questions here today, which 24 is, I fully intend to respond to all relevant questions 25 regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my 0122 1 attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide answers to 2 any questions relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept 3 this advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to 4 effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my 5 federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. 7 Q. And isn't it true also that you have retained 8 Alan Dershowitz to defend you in the criminal charges 9 that were brought against you in Palm Beach? 10 MR. GOLDBERGER: Attorney-client. 11 MR. PIKE: Attorney-client, work product. 12 BY MR. KUVIN: 13 Q. Isn't it also true that Alan Dershowitz works 14 on staff at Harvard University as a professor? I mean, 15 if you know. 16 A. I'm going to answer that question like I've 17 answered most of your other questions here today, which 18 is, I fully intend to respond to all relevant questions 19 regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my 20 attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide answers to 21 any questions that may be relevant to this lawsuit. I 22 must accept this advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment 23 right to effective representation. Accordingly, I 24 assert my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by 25 the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. 0123 1 Q. Isn't it true that you own a 50,000 square 2 foot home in Manhattan that was formerly owned by Lex 3 Wexner? 4 A. I'm going to answer that question as I've 5 answered most of your other questions here today, 6 Mr. Kuvin, which is, I fully intend to respond to all 7 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at 8 the present time, my attorneys have counseled me I 9 cannot provide answers to any questions that may be 10 relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or 11 risk losing my 6th Amendment right to effective 12 representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal 13 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. 15 Q. Isn't it true that one of your only clients is 16 a financial advisor with Lex Wexner? 17 A. I'm going to respond to that question the same 18 way I've responded to most of your other questions here 19 today, which is, I fully intend to respond to all 20 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at EFTA01158566 21 22 23 24 25 0124 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0125 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0126 1 2 3 4 5 the present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept their advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. Q. Isn't it true that Lex Wexner has since fired you after charges were brought against you in Palm Beach County for soliciting underaged girls for sex? A. I'm going to respond to that question the same way I've responded to most of your other questions here today, which is, I intend to respond to all relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept their advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution. Q. Are you a homosexual? A. No. Q. Have you had homosexual relationships with Mr. Wexner? A. I'm going to answer that question the way I've answered all your other questions here today, basically, which is, I intend to respond to all relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. Q. Have you ever touched Mr. Wexner's penis? MR. PIKE: Objection, harassing, irrelevant, argumentative. MR. GOLDBERGER: Object. THE WITNESS: No. BY MR. KUVIN: Q. Have you ever had anal sex with Mr. Wexner? A. No. Q. Have you ever threatened Mr. Wexner that you would disclose private information about him if he testified against you in the civil proceedings which have been brought against you here in Palm Beach County? MR. GOLDBERGER: Can you -- I'm sorry, can you repeat the question? MR. KUVIN: Sure. Go ahead and repeat it back, please. (A portion of the record was read by the reporter.) THE WITNESS: No. BY MR. KUVIN: Q. Did Mr. Wexner replace you with Dennis Hersch? A. I'm going to answer that question like I've answered most of your other questions here today, which is, I fully intend to respond to all relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my EFTA01158567 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0127 1 US 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0128 1 earlier this morning, in that regard, I'm not quite 2 sure what -- what you're asking, Mr. Kuvin. 3 MR. KUVIN: Well, I just want to make sure 4 that when Jeana types up the transcript, that it's 5 done the same exact way that they've all been done, 6 which is, that the girls would be utilized by 7 initial that will have the same -- 8 MR. PIKE: Pseudonym. 9 MR. KUVIN: -- pseudonym -- that will have the 10 same attachment to the deposition as we always 11 have, which is confidential. 12 MR. PIKE: That's fine. 13 MR. KUVIN: If you chose to obviously 14 challenge the confidentiality and want to disclose 15 my client's name for some reason, then we'll 16 address that with the Court at some later time. attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept their advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. Q. Would you agree that Mr. Wexner was your only client when you were a financial advisor? A. I'm going to answer that question like I've answered most of your other questions here today, Spencer -- Mr. Kuvin -- Q. Thank you. A. -- which is, I fully intend to respond to all relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide answers to any questions relative to this lawsuit. I must accept their advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the Constitution. MR. KUVIN: All right. With the understanding that -- see, now he's yawning. You don't pick on him when he yawns. With the -- MR. PIKE: Move to strike. MR. KUVIN: With the understanding that I understand you all object and you've moved to disclose the identity of III., who's been identified in this case, obviously the same proceedings would go with respect to this deposition that have gone with every other deposition regarding the identity of the unknown §§§. So I'm going to ask questions, obviously, utilizing full names and using the same procedure we've used in all other depositions in this case. MR. PIKE: I don't think that there's been an agreement in that regard. I think that there's been a motion to seal that had been subsequently filed by, I believe it was, Brad Edwards' office after a particular depo occurred. So if you want to address it by -- by that, then that would be fine. If there was an order entered that that deposition shall not be disclosed to the media EFTA01158568 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0129 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 a 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0130 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0131 1 MR. MR. MR. MR. ruling. All BY MR. KUVIN: Q. I'm Exhibit 5. PIKE: That's fine. KUVIN: Okay. Good enough. All right. PIKE: Pending the Court's ruling on that. KUVIN: Obviously pending the Court's right. You got your camera? Good to go? going to show you what we'll mark as (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 5 was marked for identification.) MR. KUVIN: Okay? BY MR. KUVIN: Q. Do you recognize this young girl? A. I'm going to answer that question the same way I've answered most of your other questions, which is, I intend to respond to all relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys have questioned -- excuse me, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution. Q. I'll show you what we're marking as Exhibit 6. Okay? (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 6 was marked for identification.) BY MR. KUVIN: Q. Do you recognize this young girl that I've marked as Exhibit 6? A. I'm going to respond to that the same way I've responded to most of your other questions here today, which is, I fully intend to respond to all relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide answers to any questions that may be relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. Q. I'm going to show you what I've marked as Exhibit 7, and I've blacked out the name -- or the face of a girl that is shown in this photograph before I mark it to the deposition. I'm going to draw an arrow with a star to the girl that I'd like you to identify. MR. PIKE: First, I'm going to object to the use of this exhibit. It's -- it's not an original any longer, and it was not provided to me prior to your marking out the face of the other individual in this photograph; therefore, I don't -- I object to it and would like to know the basis for which you've marked out this individual's face. MR. KUVIN: To protect her privacy. MR. PIKE: Third party privacy right? MR. KUVIN: She has a right to privacy. I certainly don't want to breach any potential right to privacy she may have because I haven't asked her EFTA01158569 2 whether or not it's okay to show her photograph, 3 which is why I blacked her out. 4 MR. PIKE: Okay. But having said that, 5 that -- that theory and objection is duly noted. 6 I'll go ahead and allow the witness to be 7 questioned on Exhibit 7. 8 (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 7 was marked for 9 identification.) 10 BY MR. KUVIN: 11 Q. I'd like you to take a look -- 12 MR. KUVIN: I'm sorry, let me show this to the 13 camera, first. 14 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Okay. 15 BY MR. KUVIN: 16 Q. Okay. Do you recognize the girl on the left 17 in Photograph Exhibit 7? 18 A. I'm going to respond to that question the same 19 way I've responded to most of your other questions here 20 today, Mr. Kuvin, which is, I intend to respond to all 21 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at 22 the present time, my attorneys have counseled me I 23 cannot provide answers to any questions relevant to this 24 lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 25 6th Amendment right to effective representation. 0132 1 Q. Excuse me. 2 A. Accordingly, I assert my federal 3 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 4 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. 5 (Photograph shown to the camera.) 6 (Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 8 was marked for 7 identification.) 8 BY MR. KUVIN: 9 Q. Okay. Do you recognize the girl shown in 10 Exhibit 8? 11 A. I'm going to answer that question the same way 12 I've answered most of the other questions here today, 13 which is, I fully intend to respond to all relevant 14 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the 15 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot 16 provide answers to any questions relevant to this 17 lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 18 6th Amendment right to effective representation. 19 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights 20 as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment of the 21 United States Constitution. 22 Can we take a break for a second? 23 Q. Sure. 24 MR. PIKE: Sure. 25 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the record at 0133 1 12:27. 2 (A brief recess was taken.) 3 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the record at 4 12:29. 5 BY MR. KUVIN: 6 Q. Sir, do you agree that in 2005, you had 7 come to your house, get naked and give you a massage 8 while you had nothing on but a washcloth over your 9 genitals? 10 MR. PIKE: Objection form, argumentative. 11 THE WITNESS: Is that III.; is that who you 12 said? Can you spell that for me? EFTA01158570 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0134 1 this massage, you were masturbating? 2 A. "She" being III.? I'm sorry. She -- what was 3 the question? 4 Q. Yes, all these questions refer to the same 5 child, III. You can make that assumption for all my 6 questions. 7 A. Okay. 8 MR. PIKE: Objection to form, argumentative, 9 move to strike. 10 BY MR. KUVIN: 11 Q. Do you agree that while she was giving you 12 this massage, you were masturbating? 13 MR. PIKE: Form, argumentative, harassing. 14 THE WITNESS: I'm going to respond to that 15 question the same way I've responded to most of 16 your other questions here today, which is, I intend 17 to respond to all relevant questions regarding this 18 lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys 19 have counseled me I cannot provide answers to any 20 questions relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept 21 their advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right 22 to effective representation. Accordingly, I assert 23 my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by 24 the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US 25 Constitution. 0135 1 BY MR. KUVIN: 2 Q. Do you agree that while she was giving you 3 this naked massage, she told you she was 16? 4 MR. PIKE: Form, argumentative, harassing, 5 assumes facts not in evidence. 6 THE WITNESS: I'm going to have to respond to 7 that question the same way I've responded to most 8 of your other questions here today, which is, I 9 intend to respond to all relevant questions 10 regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present 11 time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot 12 provide answers to any questions that may be 13 relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept their 14 advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to 15 effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my 16 federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 17 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. 18 BY MR. KUVIN: 19 Q. Do you agree that while she was giving you 20 this naked massage, she told you that she was 15? 21 MR. PIKE: Same objections as before. 22 THE WITNESS: I'm going to answer that 23 question the same way I've answered most of your BY MR. KUVIN: Q. It's in the record. A. I'm going to answer that question the same way I've answered most of your other questions here today, which is, I intend to respond to all relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. Q. Do you agree that while she was giving you EFTA01158571 24 other questions here today, which is, I intend to 25 respond to all relevant questions regarding this 0136 1 lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys 2 have counseled me I cannot provide answers to any 3 questions that may be relevant to this lawsuit. I 4 must accept this advice or risk losing my 6th 5 Amendment right to effective representation. 6 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional 7 rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th 8 Amendment to the US Constitution. 9 MR. PIKE: Mr. Kuvin, I've been incorporating 10 and asserting the same objections, by saying same 11 objection as before, are you okay with that? 12 MR. KUVIN: Perfectly fine. 13 MR. PIKE: Okay. 14 BY MR. KUVIN: 15 Q. Do you agree that while was in your home, 16 you asked her to get completely naked? 17 MR. PIKE: Same objection. 18 THE WITNESS: I'm going to respond to that 19 question the way I've responded to most of your 20 other questions here today, which is, I intend to 21 respond to all relevant questions regarding this 22 lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys 23 have counseled me I cannot provide answers to any 24 questions relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept 25 their advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right 0137 1 2 3 4 5 BY 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 BY 25 0138 1 you a naked massage while you were naked, that you also 2 touched her vagina? 3 MR. PIKE: Same objections as before. 4 THE WITNESS: I'm going to respond to that 5 question the same way I've responded to most of 6 your other questions here today, Mr. Kuvin, which 7 is, I fully intend to respond to all relevant 8 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the to effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution. MR. KUVIN: Q. Do you agree that after §§§. got naked in your home, that you asked her to massage you while you were naked? MR. PIKE: Form, lacks predicate, argumentative, harassing, assumes facts not in evidence. THE WITNESS: I'm going to respond to that question the same way I've responded to most of your other questions here today, Mr. Kuvin, which is, I intend to respond to all relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me that I cannot provide answers to any questions that may be relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept their advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. MR. KUVIN: Q. Do you agree that while III. was 15 and giving EFTA01158572 9 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I 10 cannot provide answers to any questions that may be 11 relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept this 12 advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to 13 effective representation. Accordingly, I must 14 assert my federal constitutional rights as 15 guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to 16 the United States Constitution. 17 BY MR. KUVIN: 18 Q. Do you agree that during this naked massage 19 with III., that you asked her whether she wanted you to 20 stop touching her vagina, and she said yes. 21 MR. PIKE: Same objections. 22 THE WITNESS: I'm going to respond to that 23 question the same way I've responded to most of 24 your other questions here today, Mr. Kuvin, which 25 is, I intend to respond to all relevant questions 0139 1 regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present 2 time my attorneys have counseled me I cannot 3 provide answers to any questions relevant to this 4 lawsuit. I must accept their advice or risk losing 5 my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. 6 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional 7 rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th 8 Amendment of the United States Constitution. 9 BY MR. KUVIN: 10 Q. Do you agree that regardless of III. telling 11 you to stop touching her vagina, you nonetheless 12 disregarded her and touched her there again? 13 MR. PIKE: Same objections as before. 14 THE WITNESS: I'm going to respond that 15 question the same way I've responded to most of 16 your other questions here today, which is, I intend 17 to respond to all relevant questions regarding this 18 lawsuit; however, at the present time. My 19 attorneys have counseled me that I cannot provide 20 answers to any questions relevant to this lawsuit. 21 I must accept their advice or risk losing my 6th 22 Amendment right to effective representation. 23 Accordingly, I must assert my federal 24 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th 25 and 14th Amendment to the United States 0140 1 Constitution. 2 BY MR. KUVIN: 3 Q. You penetrated ff .'s vagina with your finger 4 and a vibrator, did you not? 5 MR. PIKE: Same objections. 6 THE WITNESS: I'm going to respond to that 7 question the same way I've responded to most of 8 your other questions here today, which is, I fully 9 intend to respond to all relevant questions 10 regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present 11 time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot 12 provide answers to any questions relevant to this 13 lawsuit. I must accept their advice or risk losing 14 my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. 15 Accordingly, I must assert my federal 16 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th 17 and 14th Amendment to the United States 18 Constitution. 19 BY MR. KUVIN: EFTA01158573 20 Q. And it is also true that you've paid hundreds 21 of girls under the age of 17 for similar encounters 22 where you've asked them to get naked, you've laid on a 23 table naked, masturbated and then touched them in their 24 vagina at your Palm Beach home; isn't that true? 25 MR. PIKE: Form, argumentative, harassing, 0141 1 multiple, compound, it's confusing, vague, it lacks 2 proper predicate and foundation. 3 MR. KUVIN: Let me back up. 4 BY MR. KUVIN: 5 Q. Because of the compound, I'm going to have to 6 break it down a little. 7 Isn't it true, sir, that you've paid hundreds 8 of girls under the age of 17 to come to your home and 9 give you naked massages? 10 MR. PIKE: Same objection, plural. 11 THE WITNESS: I'm going to have to respond to 12 that question the same way I've responded to most 13 of your other questions here today, Mr. Kuvin, 14 which is, I intend to respond to all relevant 15 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the 16 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I 17 cannot provide answers to any questions relevant to 18 this lawsuit. I must accept their advice or risk 19 losing my 6th Amendment right to effective 20 representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal 21 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th 22 and 14th Amendment to the United States 23 Constitution. 24 BY MR. KUVIN: 25 Q. Isn't it true, sir, that in addition to 0142 1 , you had another underaged girl, , working to obtain other underaged girls to come 3 to your house with sexual encounters -- for sexual 4 encounters with you? 5 MR. PIKE: Same objections. 6 THE WITNESS: Could you repeat the question? 7 BY MR. KUVIN: 8 Q. Sure. Isn't it true that in addition to , you had another girl who, at the time was 10 underage, , working to obtain underaged 11 girls to come to your house for sexual encounters with 12 you? 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0143 1 the United States Constitution. 2 BY MR. KUVIN: 3 Q. And when these young girls were recruited to 4 come to your home, you told and to tell MR. PIKE: Same objections. THE WITNESS: I'm going to have to respond to that question the same way I've responded to your other questions here today, Mr. Kuvin, which is, I intend to respond to all relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me that I cannot provide answers to any questions that may be relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. Accordingly, I must assert my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to EFTA01158574 5 them that it would be a platonic massage with no sexual 6 contact; isn't that true? 7 MR. PIKE: Same objections. 8 THE WITNESS: I'm going to respond to that 9 question the way I've responded to most of your 10 other questions here today, Mr. Kuvin, which is, I 11 intend to respond to all relevant questions 12 regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present 13 time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot 14 provide answers to any questions that may be 15 relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept their 16 advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to 17 effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my 18 federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 19 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the United States 20 Constitution. 21 BY MR. KUVIN: 22 Q. It was only after the girls arrived at your 23 home that they learned that they would have to get naked 24 and you would be fondling them sexually; isn't that 25 true? 0144 1 MR. PIKE: Form, argumentative, lacks 2 predicate, improper foundation, argumentative and 3 harassing. 4 THE WITNESS: I'm going to respond to that 5 question the same way I responded to most of your 6 other questions here today, which is, I intend to 7 respond to all relevant questions regarding this 8 lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys 9 have counseled me I cannot provide any answers to 10 question that may be relevant to this lawsuit. I 11 must accept their advice or risk losing my 6th 12 Amendment right to effective representation. 13 Accordingly, I must assert my federal 14 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th 15 and 14th Amendment to the United States 16 Constitution. 17 BY MR. KUVIN: 18 Q. Isn't it true that you had numerous girls 19 under the age of 17 brought to your home by taxi? 20 MR. PIKE: Form, argumentative, overbroad, 21 lacks appropriate foundation. 22 BY MR. KUVIN: 23 Q. And let me clarify. From the years 2004 24 through 2006. 25 MR. PIKE: Same objections, minus overbroad. 0145 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 BY 14 15 THE WITNESS: I'm going to have to answer that question the same way I've answered most of your other questions here today, which is, I intend to respond to all relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide answers to any questions that may be relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept their advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution. MR. KUVIN: Q. Isn't it true that you paid a taxi to have girls, underaged girls like III., brought to your home EFTA01158575 16 from the years 2004 to 2006? 17 A. I'm going to respond to that question the way 18 I've responded to most of your other questions here 19 today, which is, I intend to respond to all relevant 20 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the 21 present time, my attorneys have counseled me that I 22 cannot -- I'm sorry, should I start again? Do you 23 want -- 24 Q. No, please, don't start again. 25 MR. PIKE: Move to strike counsel's last 0146 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0147 1 6th Amendment right to effective representation. 2 Accordingly, I must assert my federal constitutional 3 rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment 4 to the United States Constitution. 5 Q. Did you have a massage table at your home in 6 2005? 7 MR. PIKE: Lacks appropriate foundation. 8 MR. KUVIN: I'm sorry, what's the objection to 9 that one? 10 MR. PIKE: Lacks appropriate foundation. 11 MR. KUVIN: Foundation? 12 MR. PIKE: Yes, it does. 13 BY MR. KUVIN: 14 Q. Did you have a home in 2005? 15 I'm sorry, I'm just trying to lay the 16 foundation, and I apologize for laughing, I just don't 17 understand the objection. I'm trying to understand the 18 foundation question of did you have a massage table at 19 your home in 2005. I want to fix my question, if -- if 20 I can 21 MR. PIKE: If you can. 22 MR. KUVIN: All right. 23 BY MR. KUVIN: 24 Q. Did you have a home in 2005? 25 A. I'm going to respond to that question the same 0148 statement. MR. KUVIN: He was asking me a question, that's the only reason why I responded. I apologize. MR. PIKE: Once again, move to strike. THE WITNESS: I intend to respond to all relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution. BY MR. KUVIN: Q. Do you have a massage table in your Palm Beach home? A. I'm going to answer that question, Mr. Kuvin, the same way I've answered most of your other questions here today, which is, I intend to respond to all relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me that I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept their advice or risk losing my EFTA01158576 1 way I've responded to most of your other questions here 2 today, which is, I fully intend to respond to all 3 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at 4 the present time, my attorneys have counseled me that I 5 cannot provide answers to any of your questions that may 6 be relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept their advice 7 or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to effective 8 representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal 9 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 10 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution. 11 Q. Do you know what a massage table is? 12 A. I'm going to have to answer that question the 13 same way I've answered most of your other questions here 14 today, Mr. Kuvin, which is, I intend to respond to all 15 relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at 16 the present time, my attorneys have counseled me I 17 cannot provide answers to any questions that may be 18 relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or 19 risk losing my 6th Amendment right to effective 20 representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal 21 constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 22 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution. 23 Q. Do you know what a table is? 24 MR. PIKE: Objection, harassing 25 MR. KUVIN: I'm just trying -- 0149 1 MR. PIKE: -- argumentative. 2 MR. KUVIN: I apologize. I'm just trying to 3 lay the foundation. I want to make sure that 4 there's no problem with the foundation for the 5 question of, did you have a massage table in your 6 home in 2005. So I've asked him whether he had a 7 home, I'm asking him whether he knows what a 8 massage table is -- 9 MR. GOLDBERGER: I have no problem with him 10 answering what a table is. Just ask him the 11 question. 12 BY MR. KUVIN: 13 Q. Do you know what a table is? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Okay. Did you have a massage table in your 16 home back in 2005? 17 MR. PIKE: Same objection. 18 THE WITNESS: I've already answered -- 19 MR. KUVIN: Wait. Wait. Same objection 20 MR. PIKE: Asked and answered. 21 MR. KUVIN: -- means what? 22 MR. PIKE: It's asked and answered. 23 MR. KUVIN: Is that the only objection? 24 MR. PIKE: And it still lacks the appropriate 25 foundation. 0150 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 BY MR. KUVIN: Q. Do you know what the word "massage" is? Do you know what that word means? A. I'm going to respond to that question the same way I've responded to most of your other questions here today, which is, I intend to respond to all relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide any answers to questions that may be relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept their advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. EFTA01158577 12 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights 13 as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the 14 United States Constitution. 15 Q. Do you understand what I mean when I ask you 16 about the year 2005? 17 MR. PIKE: Form, vague and confusing. 18 BY MR. KUVIN: 19 Q. You can answer. 20 A. I don't understand the question. 21 Q. Do you understand what I mean by the year 22 2005? 23 MR. GOLDBERGER: You just asked the same 24 question. He said he didn't understand it. Just 25 rephrase the question. 0151 1 BY MR. KUVIN: 2 Q. Do you understand dates? 3 A. Like going on a date? 4 Q. No. Like years, dates. 2001, 2000, do you 5 know what that means? 6 A. Yes. 7 MR. KUVIN: Okay. So I just want to make 8 sure. We've objected to the word "massage," 5th 9 Amendment, he knows what a table is, he knows what 10 dates and years are and he's objected to his house. 11 MR. GOLDBERGER: The question, Spencer, okay? 12 Don't do that, please. 13 MR. KUVIN: I'm trying to make sure that I 14 have it all right here. 15 MR. GOLDBERGER: All right, but don't 16 verbalize your thoughts. Just ask a question. 17 MR. KUVIN: Okay. 18 MR. PIKE: I'm also going to move to strike 19 counsel's last statement from the record. 20 BY MR. KUVIN: 21 Q. Did you have a massage table at your home in 22 2005? 23 MR. PIKE: Same objection, lacks foundation, 24 improper predicate. 25 THE WITNESS: I'm going to respond to that 0152 1 question the same way I've responded to most of 2 your other questions here today, which is, I intend 3 to respond to all relevant questions regarding this 4 lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys 5 have counseled me I cannot provide answers to any 6 questions that may be relevant to the lawsuit. I 7 must accept their advice or risk losing my 6th 8 Amendment right to effective representation. 9 Excuse me? 10 BY MR. KUVIN: 11 Q. I'm sorry, I just had a nasal problem. 12 A. Let me start from the beginning again. 13 Q. Whatever you'd like to do. 14 A. I intend to respond to all relevant questions 15 regarding this lawsuit. I should start again. 16 Q. Okay. Whatever you're comfortable doing. I 17 have all day. 18 A. I intend to respond to all relevant questions 19 regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my 20 attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide answers to 21 any questions relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept 22 their advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to EFTA01158578 23 effective representation. Accordingly, I must assert my 24 federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 25 6th and 14th Amendment to the United States 0153 1 Constitution. 2 Q. Did you have a massage table in your upstairs 3 bathroom in 2005? 4 MR. PIKE: Foundation, lacks appropriate 5 predicate. 6 THE WITNESS: I'm going to respond to that 7 question the same way I've responded to most of 8 your other questions here today, Mr. Kuvin, which 9 is, I intend to respond to all relevant questions 10 regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present 11 time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot 12 provide answers to any questions that may be 13 relevant to the lawsuit. I must accept their 14 advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to 15 effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my 16 federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 17 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the United States 18 Constitution. 19 BY MR. KUVIN: 20 Q. Did you keep various massage oils, lotions, 21 sexual devices and sexual toys in your upstairs bathroom 22 in 2005? 23 MR. PIKE: Same objection. 24 MR. KUVIN: Wait a minute, is there a compound 25 in there? Because if so, I'll separate them out. 0154 1 MR. PIKE: There was not a compound. 2 MR. KUVIN: Okay. 3 MR. PIKE: The objection was foundation and 4 predicate. 5 BY MR. KUVIN: 6 Q. Okay. You can answer. 7 A. I'm going to answer that question the way I've 8 answered most of your other questions here today. I 9 intend to respond to all relevant questions regarding 10 this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys 11 have counseled me I cannot provide answers to any 12 questions that may be relevant to the lawsuit. I must 13 accept their advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment 14 right to effective representation. Accordingly, I 15 assert my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by 16 the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the United States 17 Constitution. 18 Q. I'm going to show you a clip of a deposition 19 that was taken in this case and, first of all, ask 20 you -- this is the deposition of §§§. that had been 21 previously taken in this case. 22 MR. PIKE: Wait a minute. 23 MR. KUVIN: You're welcome to watch. 24 MR. PIKE: I might -- I want it played to the 25 video first. 0155 1 MR. KUVIN: Okay, I can do that. 2 MR. PIKE: Okay. So let's play it to the 3 video first and then we'll determine what's next. 4 MR. KUVIN: Well, I'm going to ask him a 5 couple of questions first before I hit play. 6 MR. PIKE: I need to see it first. 7 MR. KUVIN: Come around and look. I want him EFTA01158579 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0156 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0157 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 to see it at the same time. MR. PIKE: That's fine. I want it played to the camera first. MR. KUVIN: Oh, no. I'm not going to do your order. I'm going to just ask him first -- MR. PIKE: You need to -- you're asking the witness about an exhibit technically that is going to be utilized in this deposition that you have not provided me first. So just like you would professionally provide me a document first, I'm asking that you provide me the video first, play it to the camera, or you and I can step outside and you can play it to me and then you can ask the witness. The witness will remain in here. You and I can go into a different room. Then he's not going to answer any questions with regard to the video, then I ask that it not -- you're not giving me a document that you're questioning the witness on. It doesn't work that way. MR. KUVIN: Let me speak. You were provided the deposition of §§§. Someone from your office was present and actually asking the questions. This is not an exhibit that you do not have or did not have previous. You've had this ever since the deposition was taken. So I'm not surprising you with any new document or testimony or anything of the like. This is the exact same testimony of a witness who had been previously taken in this case and I'm not going to play it, I just want to see a couple of questions first. I will agree with your procedure to play it to the camera first, and then I will ask him questions after I've played it to the camera about what I just played. MR. PIKE: As long as -- MR. KUVIN: But I want some identification issues first, and that's all. MR. PIKE: Let me clear something up. I was not at the deposition of III. Bob Critton and Mark Luttier -- MR. KUVIN: MR. PIKE: MR. KUVIN: MR. PIKE: MR. KUVIN: MR. PIKE: matter. So as long as you first to the camera -- MR. KUVIN: Sure. MR. PIKE: -- then questioning. MR. KUVIN: Sure. MR. PIKE: And then you can play it to the witness, but I want to see it first. MR. KUVIN: That's fine. That's fine. BY MR. KUVIN: Q. All right. I have a photograph here or a video clip showing a young lady who's been identified in this case as §§§. Her deposition was given in this case. Correct. -- were at that Both attorneys I have not seen deposition. at your office. this video. Both attorneys at your office. It doesn't matter. It doesn't agree to you can play the video proceed with your And just to lay some foundation, first, do you EFTA01158580 19 recognize this girl? 20 A. I'm going to respond to that question the way 21 I've responded to most of your other questions here 22 today, which is, I intend to respond to all relevant 23 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the 24 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot 25 provide answers to any questions relevant to this 0158 1 lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 2 6th Amendment right to effective representation. 3 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights 4 as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment of the 5 United States Constitution. 6 Q. Did you watch her deposition as she was giving 7 it? 8 MR. GOLDBERGER: Attorney-client. 9 BY MR. KUVIN: 10 Q. Were you present and watching §§§.'s testimony 11 by closed-circuit camera as she gave her testimony in 12 this case? 13 MR. PIKE: Attorney-client, work product. 14 MR. GOLDBERGER: Attorney-client, work 15 product. 16 MR. PIKE: I'm going to instruct the witness 17 not to answer both of those questions. 18 MR. KUVIN: I'm going to play one of the 19 clips. Tell me if you can get a clear shot of 20 this. 21 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Is this going to be played 22 with audio? 23 MR. KUVIN: Yes, and I'll put my mic so you 24 can pick it up. 25 MR. PIKE: And for purposes of the record, I 0159 1 want it to -- this camera to zero out from the 2 current deponent onto that. I do not want my 3 client in the background of this videotape. Is 4 that understood? 5 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: I've asked to get a shot of 6 the computer screen and that's what I have. 7 MR. PIKE: Let me see what your shot is. 8 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: You're welcome to do so. 9 MR. KUVIN: You got a clean shot? 10 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: If he sticks his face in 11 front of the computer, I can't do anything about 12 it, but I've been asked to give a shot of the 13 computer. That's what I have. 14 MR. PIKE: Let's go. 15 MR. KUVIN: Okay, are we good? Clean shot? 16 (Video being played.) 17 VIDEO WITNESS: "And his little fetish with 18 me, pinching his nipples. He's probably getting 19 hard right now." 20 (Video stopped.) 21 BY MR. KUVIN: 22 Q. Okay. That's all. All right? Okay. 23 Let me make sure that I have that. I'm going 24 to play a clip for you that I just played for your 25 attorneys, and then I'd like to ask you a question about 0160 1 it. 2 (Video being played.) 3 VIDEO WITNESS: "And his little fetish with EFTA01158581 4 me, pinching his nipples. He's probably getting 5 hard right now." 6 (Video stopped.) 7 BY MR. KUVIN: 8 Q. Do you have a fetish where you like young 9 women to pinch your nipples? 10 A. I'm going to respond to that the same way I've 11 responded to most of your other questions here today, 12 which is, I intend to respond to all relevant questions 13 regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my 14 attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide answers to 15 any questions relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept 16 their advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to 17 effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my 18 federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 19 6th and 14th Amendment to the United States 20 Constitution. 21 MR. PIKE: And I assume, Mr. Kuvin, you will 22 provide me with the number on the roll that 23 you're -- that you pretty much marked as an exhibit 24 here, where it starts numerically and where it ends 25 numerically so I can pull it and we can have an 0161 1 exhibit made for purposes of this deposition. 2 MR. KUVIN: Oh, I don't intend to attach it as 3 an exhibit to this deposition. 4 MR. PIKE: Well, what were the -- where did it 5 start and where did it begin on the roll? 6 MR. KUVIN: I don't know. It's a clip that I 7 pulled from the master video. I can get it for you 8 though. I can certainly identify it in the 9 transcript. 10 MR. PIKE: So you'll provide that to me? 11 MR. KUVIN: Yeah, I'll find a place in the 12 transcript for you, that's not a problem. 13 BY MR. KUVIN: 14 Q. Do you like to have underaged girls massage 15 your legs, underaged being under the age of 18? 16 A. I'm going to respond to that question the same 17 way I've responded to most of your other questions here 18 today, which is, I intend to respond to all relevant 19 questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the 20 present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot 21 provide answers to any questions relevant to this 22 lawsuit. I must accept their advice or risk losing my 23 6th Amendment right to effective representation. 24 Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights 25 as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the 0162 1 United States Constitution. 2 Q. Have you had underaged girls, which include 3 ...., in 2004, 2005 and 2006, massage your chest while 4 they were naked? 5 A. I intend to respond to all relevant questions 6 to this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my 7 attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide answers to 8 any questions that may be relevant to this lawsuit. As 9 I've done with most of your questions here today, I must 10 accept their advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment 11 right to effective representation. Accordingly, I 12 assert my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by 13 the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the United States 14 Constitution. EFTA01158582 15 16 for 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0163 1 advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to 2 effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my 3 federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 4 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the United States 5 Constitution. 6 BY MR. KUVIN: 7 Q. Did you pay $200 to come to your home in 8 2005? 9 MR. PIKE: Form. 10 MR. KUVIN: I'm sorry, what's the form 11 problem? 12 MR. PIKE: I don't need to provide you with a 13 speaking objection. The rules are the rules. 14 You've clearly stated to me today that you don't 15 want speaking objections, and I've abided by that; 16 therefore, the objection is form. 17 MR. KUVIN: I'm just asking for a 18 clarification so I can correct the question if I 19 need to. 20 MR. PIKE: Ask your question again, Mr. Kuvin. 21 MR. KUVIN: Can you read it back for me? 22 Thank you. 23 (A portion of the record was read by the 24 reporter.) 25 THE WITNESS: I'm going to respond to that 0164 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 BY 15 16 to 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Does Mr. Wexner know of your sexual preference underaged girls, girls under the age of 17? MR. PIKE: Form, argumentative, harassing, assumes facts not in evidence. THE WITNESS: I'm going to have to answer that the same way I've answered most of your questions here today, which is, I intend to respond to all relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide answers to any questions that may be relevant to the lawsuit. I must accept their question in the same way I've responded to most of your other questions here today, which is, I intend to respond to all relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide answers to any questions that may be relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept their advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. Accordingly, I must assert my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution. MR. PIKE: Same objection. MR. KUVIN: Q. You knew III. was 15 years old when she came your home, didn't you? MR. PIKE: Form. THE WITNESS: I'm going to respond to that question the same way I've responded to most of your other questions here today, which is, I intend to respond to all relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept their advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right EFTA01158583 0165 1 to effective representation. Accordingly, I assert 2 my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by 3 the 5th, 6th and 14th Amendment to the United 4 States Constitution. 5 BY MR. KUVIN: 6 Q. What is the Wexner Children's Trust, the 7 second? 8 MR. PIKE: Can you restate your question 9 again? 10 BY MR. KUVIN: 11 Q. Yes. What is the Wexner's Children's -- I'm 12 sorry, Wexner, singular, Children's Trust II, or the 13 second? 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0166 1 and 14th Amendment to the United States 2 Constitution. 3 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Spencer, can we take a 4 quick break? 5 MR. KUVIN: Change tape? 6 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: No, a problem with your 7 mic. I just want to go off for a second and see if 8 we can fix it. 9 MR. KUVIN: Sure. 10 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're off the record at 11 1:03 p.m. 12 (A brief recess was taken.) 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0167 1 CERTIFICATE OF OATH 2 THE STATE OF FLORIDA 3 COUNTY OF PALM BEACH 4 5 6 I, the undersigned authority, certify that 7 JEFFREY EPSTEIN personally appeared before me and was 8 duly sworn on the 8th day of October, 2009. 9 10 Dated this 8th day of October, 2009. MR. GOLDBERGER: Okay. THE WITNESS: I'm going to have to respond to that question the same way I've responded to most of your other questions here today, Mr. Kuvin, which is, I intend to respond to all relevant questions regarding this lawsuit; however, at the present time, my attorneys have counseled me I cannot provide answers to any questions relevant to this lawsuit. I must accept this advice or risk losing my 6th Amendment right to effective representation. Accordingly, I assert my federal constitutional rights as guaranteed by the 5th, 6th EFTA01158584 11 12 13 14 15 Jeana Ricciuti, RPR, FPR, CLR 16 Notary Public - State of Florida My Commission Expires: 2/17/2013 17 My Commission No.: DD 854778 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0168 1 CERTIFICATE 2 THE STATE OF FLORIDA 3 COUNTY OF PALM BEACH 4 5 I, Jeana Ricciuti, Registered Professional Reporter and Notary Public in and for the State of 6 Florida at large, do hereby certify that I was authorized to and did report said deposition in 7 stenotype; and that the foregoing pages are a true and correct transcription of my shorthand notes of said 8 deposition. 9 I further certify that said deposition was taken at the time and place hereinabove set forth and 10 that the taking of said deposition was commenced and completed as hereinabove set out. 11 I further certify that I am not attorney or 12 counsel of any of the parties, nor am I a relative or employee of any attorney or counsel of party connected 13 with the action, nor am I financially interested in the action. 14 The foregoing certification of this transcript 15 does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means unless under the direct control and/or direction 16 of the certifying reporter. 17 Dated this 8th day of October, 2009. 18 19 20 21 Jeana Ricciuti, RPR, FPR, CLR 22 23 24 25 0169 1 2 3 4 DATE: TO: October 22, 2009 JEFFREY EPSTEIN c/o Michael J. Pike BURMAN, CRITTON, LUTTIER & COLEMAN, P.A. 303 Banyan Boulevard Suite 400 West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 EFTA01158585 5 IN RE: =. v. EPSTEIN 6 Please take notice that on Thursday, the 8th 7 of October, 2009, you gave your deposition in the above-referred matter. At that time, you did not waive 8 signature. It is now necessary that you sign your deposition. 9 As previously agreed to, the transcript will be furnished to you through your counsel. Please read 10 the following instructions carefully: At the end of the transcript you will find an 11 errata sheet. As you read your deposition, any changes or corrections that you wish to make should be noted on 12 the errata sheet, citing page and line number of said change. DO NOT write on the transcript itself. Once 13 you have read the transcript and noted any changes, be sure to sign and date the errata sheet and return these 14 pages to me. If you do not read and sign the deposition 15 within a reasonable time (i.e., 30 days unless otherwise directed) the original, which has already been forwarded 16 to the ordering attorney, may be filed with the Clerk of the Court. If you wish to waive your signature, sign 17 your name in the blank at the bottom of this letter and return it to us. 18 Very truly yours, 19 20 Jeana Ricciuti, RPR, FPR, CLR 21 Prose Court Reporting Agency, INC. 250 S. Australian Avenue, Ste 1500 22 West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 23 I do hereby waive my signature. 24 25 JEFFREY EPSTEIN 0170 1 CERTIFICATE 2 3 THE STATE OF FLORIDA 4 COUNTY OF PALM BEACH 5 I hereby certify that I have read the 6 foregoing deposition by me given, and that the 7 statements contained herein are true and correct to the 8 best of my knowledge and belief, with the exception of 9 any corrections or notations made on the errata sheet, 10 if one was executed. 11 12 Dated this day of 13 2009. 14 15 16 17 18 19 JEFFREY EPSTEIN 20 21 22 23 24 EFTA01158586 25 0171 1 ERRATA SHEET 2 IN RE: III. v. EPSTEIN CR: JEANA RICCIUTI 3 DEPOSITION OF: JEFFREY EPSTEIN 4 TAKEN: October 8, 2009 5 DO NOT WRITE ON TRANSCRIPT - ENTER CHANGES HERE 6 PAGE # LINE # CHANGE REASON 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 Under penalty of perjury, I declare that I have read my 19 deposition and that it is true and correct subject to any changes in form or substance entered here. 20 21 22 23 24 25 Please forward the original signed errata sheet to this office so that copies may be distributed to all parties. DATE: SIGNATURE OF DEPONENT: EFTA01158587