DS9 Document EFTA01245169

Pane UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA IN RE: OPERATION LEAP YEAR Federal Grand Jury, 07-103 West Palm Beach, Florida February 27, 2007 APPEARANCES: ANN MARIE VILLAPANA, ESQUIRE Assistant United States Attorney JOSETTE JONES-PARSONS, Foreperson TESTIMONY OF E. NESBITT ICUIRRENDALL ORIGINAL _A MM20 GJ TESTIMONY_MULTIPLE_INDICTMENT-000024 3501.004-001 Page 1 of 29 CONFIDENTIAL EFTA 00055152 EFTA01245169 Page 2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 The sworn testimony of E. was taken before the Federal Grand Jury, West Palm Beach Division, West Palm Beach, Palm Beach County, State of Florida, on the 27th day of February, 2007. Philip W. May, Court Reporter, was authorized to and did report the sworn testimony. MM20- GJ TESTIMONY_MULTIPLE_INDICTMENT-000025 3501.004-001 Page 2 of 29 CONFIDENTIAL EFTA 00055153 EFTA01245170 Page 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 1? 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (The witness entered the grand jury room.) E. having been duly sworn by the grand jury foreperson, was examined and testified on her oath as folloWs: EXAMINATION BY MS. Q Good morning, special agent you restate and spell your name for the record. A It's E. . Could Q Can you remind the grand jury who you are employed by? A . The FBI. Q I know that you testified here a few weeks ago. Was there anything from that testimony that you wanted to correct? A I did. I was asked by one of you Mr. Epstein's age, and I confused him with another individual in another one of my cases. HiS birthdate is January 20, 1953. We are looking at the time period of 2004 and 2005. So Mr. Epstein would have been about 51 or 52-years-old, and I believe I told you he was 45. So at the time we're looking during this investigation, he is 51 or 52. Q Agent , how did this case first come to the attention of the police? MM20 GJ TESTIMONY_MULTIPLE_INDICTMENT-000026 3501.0(4-00I Page 3 of 29 CONFIDENTIAL EFTA 00055154 EFTA01245171 Page 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 B 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A In March of 2005, ., our youngest identified victim -- her stepmother called the Palm Beach police department and reported that she believed that her stepdaughter had been molested by a male that resided in the town of Palm Beach. Q So today we are going to talk about A Yes. Q And we are using her initial to protect her identity, correct? A Yes. Q Can you tell the grand jury date of birth? A birthday is • And you mentioned that the call came in from stepmother in March of 2005, correct? A Yes. Q So how old was at that time? A She was 14. Q Where does live? A lives in the Loxahatchee-Royal Palm Beach area here in Palm Beach County. Q At the time, in 2005, what school was she attending? A Royal Palm Beach High School. Q. what year was she in school? MM20- GJ TESTIMONY_MULTIPLE_INDICTMENT-000027 3501.004-001 Page 4 of 29 CONFIDENTIAL EFTA 00055155 EFTA01245172 Page 5 She was a ninth-grader there. Q You mentioned that her stepmother called the Palm Beach police department. What did the police department do in response to that call? A They wanted to interview the next day they went out to where was attending I believe it was school at that time, which I think was High Ridge. They interviewed at High Ridge and wanted to get her side 9 of what took place. io Q Because we'll be referring to this throughout, 11 12 what was the name of the detective who conducted that first interview? 13 A Detective la Q So in March of 2005, detective talked with 15 . Was ever interviewed at any other times? 16 A Yes. She was interviewed -- they talked to her 17 again. She placed some controlled calls for them later 18 that month, we will talk about that later. As well as 19 she was interviewed about a year later in July of 2006. 20 Not interviewed, but she testified before the grand jury 21 for the State of Florida. So she was interviewed by 22 23 24 25 detective in March of 2005, and then about a year or . three or four months later, in July of 2006, she testified before a grand jury with the State of Florida. Q In preparation for your appearance today, did MM20 GJ TESTIMONY_MULTIPLE_INDICTMENT-000028 3501.004-001 Page 5 of 29 CONFIDENTIAL EFTA 00055156 EFTA01245173 Page 6 1 you have a chance to interview 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 A Yes. 9 10 11 12 13 14 Saturday, and was at 15 was there with her boyfriend, And because these 16 are minors, we'll refer to them without using their last 17 names, so i'll use those initials. 18 19 20 were all at house, and 21 22 23 24 25 is on the phone with the assistant for Jeffrey They were at A Yes, I did. Q And when was that? A Last night. Q Back in March of 2005, you mentioned that detective met with on or more than one occasion? Q If you could give us sort of an overview of what reported during these interviews, and then if there are specific discrepancies or differences, we will return to those later. A All right. On February 5, 2005, it was a house, . She residence, and . is boyfriend, which is also cousin. So they was on the phone with an individual that refers to as the assistant. described the assistant as a tall blonde. So throughout I'll refer to her as the blonde lady, if that's okay. was unable to recall her name. So MM20- GJ TESTIMONY_MULTIPLE_INDICTMENT-000029 3501.004-001 Page 6 of 29 CONFIDENTIAL EFTA 00055157 EFTA01245174 Page 7 Epstein. describing the phone. So when and overhear on the phone describing to the lady on gets off the phone, and both want to know why was being described to this lady on the phone. becomes upset when asks if she would like to go to Palm Beach and give a man'a massage that she knows. agrees, and this upsets and an argument ensues where and 10 go into the bathroom and they argue outside the presence 11 of 12 Q Let me stop you there. Was supposed to be 13 paid for giving this massage? 14 A Yes. told that she would be paid 15 $200 or $300, I believe. 16 Q You mentioned that is boyfriend, and 17 is also cousin, correct? 18 A Yes. 19 Q What was idea about why they were 20 arguing? 21 A She has told us that she believed that must 22 have known what was doing for this man and the work 23 that did for Mr. Epstein, and that is why was 24 so upset. 25 Q So knew that this wasn't just a regular MM20- GJ TESTIMONY_MULTIPLE_INDICTMENT-000030 3501.004-001 Page 7 of 29 CONFIDENTIAL EFTA 00055158 EFTA01245175 1 massage that was going to take place? A Yes. Q So and have this argument. What does 4 decide to do? decides to go. 6 Q Because she wanted to make the $200 or $300? A Yes. So tell us then what happened after that 9 meeting? 10 A The next day, February 6 -- they discussed that 11 evening about going the next day. We do have on 12 phone records two calls that were placed. One was placed 13 to cell phone, and the other was placed to 14 Jeffrey Epstein's residence the night of February 5. 15 The next day is contacted .a couple of times 16 before arrives. Each time prior to being 17 contacted by , a call is placed by to 18 cell phone. , I should tell you, is 19 Jeffrey's assistant. 20 So on Sunday a call was placed to 21 and then shortly after that a call was made to That 22 same series occurs again, but this time places a 23 call to Mr. Epstein's residence, and then is called 24 again. 25 Eventually, comes to residence with MM20- GJ TESTIMONY_MULTIPLE_INDICTMENT-000031 3501.004-001 Page 8 of 29 CONFIDENTIAL EFTA 00055159 EFTA01245176 Page 9 another girl in the car, . So the two of them 2 arrive at residence, and they continue over to 3 Mr. Epstein's house. is driving- with and . Do you know how they were sitting? 6 A You know, I'm not sure how they were sitting, but I know that it was a pickup truck that drove, 8 and was the driver. I'm not sure exactly the 9 placement of the other two girls, but they were in the 10 truck. 11 Q And was able to describe how they travelled 12 to the island of Palm Beach? 13 A Yes. She gave directions -- you know, the best 14 that she could on how she was able to come to 15 Mr. Epstein's residence. 16 Q once they arrived at the residence, what 17 happened? 18 A I should have mentioned that either the night 19 before or the day of, there were some things that 20 tells . One, she tells that she is to tell, if 21 asked, that she is 18-years-of-age, that she attends high 22 school, that she'S in the 12th grade, and I believe it was 23 Wellington High School that she was to say that she went 24 to. 25 Talking to last night, told us that MM20- G.) TESTIMONY_MULTIPLE_INDICTMENT-000032 3501.004-001 Page 9 of 29 CONFIDENTIAL EFTA 00055160 EFTA01245177 Page 10 1 once she arrived at the residence tells her that she 2 may possibly be asked to take her clothes off. She also 3 tells her that she can stay in her bra, but she may be 4 asked to take her clothes off. And told us last night that that's when she knew for the first time that 6 she might have to possibly remove her clothes. At this point they proceed to enter the residence. describes him as a security person. He 9 approached and asked what they were doing there, and 10 said they were there to see Mr. Epstein, or see Jeffrey. 11 He allowed them entry into the kitchen area by the pool, 12 and describes that area. So now and 13 are all sitting in the kitchen. A short time goes 14 by and Hr. Epstein, as well as the assistant, enter the 15 kitchen. 16 Q And I know that you mentioned that did not 17 know the name of the lady who was there in the kitchen, 18 correct? 19 A Right. 20 Q She just described her as a blonde, tall lady? 21 A Yes. 22 Q Was also interviewed about what happened' 23 that day? 24 A She was interviewed by the Palm Beach police 25 department. MM20- GJ TESTIMONY_MULTIPLE_INDICTMENT-000033 3501.004-001 Page 10 of 29 CONFIDENTIAL EFTA_00055 I 61 EFTA01245178 Page 11 1 Q Did identify the person who was on the 2 phone with her as 3 A Yes, she did. 4 Q So even though doesn't know her name, knew name? 6 A Yes. Q So you mentioned that the three girls are in the 8 kitchen, along with Jeffrey and the person calls the 9 blonde lady? 10 A Yes. 11 Q What happened then? 12 A follows the blonde lady upstairs to 13 Mr. Epstein's bedroom. The blonde lady proceeds to take 14 out a massage table and set it up, prepare it. She also 15 takes out some lotions to be used during the massage. 16 told me last night that the blonde lady asked her to 17 remove her clothing, and then left the room and said that 18 Mr. Epstein would be in shortly. 19 Q What happened after she left the room? 20 A Shortly after that, Mr. Epstein does come into 21 • the room and shakes hand. told us last night 22 that Mr. Epstein told her to remove her clothing. He 23 leaves the room and comes back in just a towel, and he 24 tells her again to -- she is at that point -- when he 25 walked in the first time she had on her bra and her pants. MM20- GJ TESTIMONY_MULTIPLE_INDICTMENT-000034 3501.004-001 Page I I of 29 CONFIDENTIAL EFTA 00055162 EFTA01245179 Page 12 1 when he comes back in, he tells her that she needs to take 2 her pants off. So she took her pants off. So now she's 3 in her bra and underwear. 4 Q At some point did tell any of the people 5 who interviewed her what was running through her mind? 6 A She stated at one point that she was upstairs 7 with him, with the man, and that was downstairs. I 8. guess she says, "What could do? She's downstairs, 9 I'm upstairs." So she did what she was asked to do. to Q So now you mention that Mr. Epstein is here 11 wearing just a towel, and has removed both her shirt 12 and her pants, is that correct? 13 A Yes. 14 Q Tell us what happens then? 15 A MS. Epstein gets on the massage table lying on 16 his stomach and instructs how to do the massage. He 17 tells her to put some lotion on her hand and instructs her 18 on how to actually perform the massage. At one point 19 during the massage he tells that she would be more 20 comfortable to get on top of him, so gets on top of 21 him and straddles Mr. Epstein's back. 22 The way describes it is Mr. Epstein is 23 laying on the table, he has a. towel covering his bottom, 24 and she is straddling him with her bottom touching the 25 towel and some skin touching his lower back. She was kind MM20- GJ TESTIMONY_MULTIPLE_INDICTMENT-000035 3501.004-001 Page 12 of 29 CONFIDENTIAL EFTA 00055163 EFTA01245180 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 13 1 of 2 -- the front of him, 3 but he had a towel across his bottom. Q What happens as she is providing the massage to his back? A The massage goes on. She said the entire massage lasted anywhere from 30 to 45 minutes. At one point Mr. Epstein excuses himself for a few minutes, one or two minutes briefly. states that she can hear Mr. Epstein moaning or groaning, and states that she believes he was, in her words, •wacking off• or masturbating. She didn't say masturbating, she said "wacking off.• i am going to use that she believes he was masturbating. Then he returns. At this point he gets back on the table lying on his back and asks her to start . So she Q Does he keep the towel on? A No, at this point the towel is removed. when he comes back and he gets back on the table, the towel is removed and she is Q What does he do as she is A He moves his hand up and down his penis. So he continued to masturbate on the table. He asked , at some point during this time, if she would like to make an MM20- GJ TESTIMONY_MULTIPLE_INDICTMENT-000036 3501.004-001 Page 13 of 29 CONFIDENTIAL EFTA 00055164 EFTA01245181 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 14 extra $100. He tells her that it would not involve doing a massage. agrees. He asked her if he could use a vibrator on her, and she does agree. describes it as , and she said this goes on for about ten minutes. At some point during that massage the vibrator is not used anymore and takes place. describes him as Q What did she say happened when Mr. Epstein her? A The vibrator . At some point he doeS And these are her words. She looks at him kind of funny, and he sarcastically -- which is her word -- he sarcastically says, "What's the matter?" And she at that point just kind of looks away, and he continues on with the . in the last three to four minutes of that, he begins to masturbate again. At the conclusion of the sexual activity, Mr. Epstein wipes his penis off with a towel. Was asked if he ejaculated. She did not see him ejaculate, but saw him wipe his penis off with a towel. Q Was able to provide a physical description of Mr. Epstein? A Yes. MM20- GJ TESTIMONY_MULTIPLE_INDICTMENT-000037 3501.004-001 Page 14 of 29 CONFIDENTIAL EFTA 00055165 EFTA01245182 Page 15 1 Q Including of his penis? 2 A Yes. 3 Q Was she also able to provide a description of 4 her surroundings in that massage area? 5 6 7 8 10 11 12 perform a search, and several of the items that were 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 concluded, the sexual activity had been concluded. He 20 gets up and leaves for a brief moment of time and comes 21 22 23 24 25 A Yes. Q was that description accurate? A Yes. According to other testimony we have gotten from other victims, yes. Q And a search was performed on Mr. Epstein's house? A Yes. The Palm Beach police department did described were found in the house. Q After Mr. Epstein wiped himself off, what happened? A He told that she was getting the extra hundred dollars because he was allowed to use the vibrator on her and had . The massage had been back with $300 and pays the $300. I believe he told that she could see herself out. Q Before we leave that room, when' was dither being directed to the room or was inside that room where the massage took place, was there anything in particular MM20- GJ TESTIMONY_MULTIPLE_INDICTMENT-000038 3501.004-001 Page 15 of 29 CONFIDENTIAL EFTA 00055166 EFTA01245183 Page 16 k 1 that she noted seeing? 2 A She noted seeing several naked pictures of girls 3 in the room, a mural or pictures of naked girls either 4 exposing their breasts or completely naked. 5 Q While the massage was going on, did Mr. Epstein 6 talk to 7 A Yes, he did. 8 Q And did he talk about sexual conquests with 9 girls? 10 A Yes, he did. 11 Q Once Mr. Epstein has provided with the 12 $300, what did she do? 13 A She went back downstairs and she, and 14 leave the residence. In the car they ask how 15 much money she has made, and she tells them $300. 16 wants to see the money. She shows the money to and 17 asks what did she do. At that point tells her 18 that he , as well as 19 Q When they left the house, where did they go? 20 A When they left the house, they were on their way 21 to a mall to go shopping with the money that they had 22 received from Mr. Epstein. had told the night 23 before that she needed some shoes and wanted to go to the 24 mall, and she was going to Mr. Epstein's to pick up some 25 money. That was another reason that she had for going to MM20- GJ TESTIMONY_MULTIPLE_INDICTMENT-000039 3501.004-001 Page 16 of 29 CONFIDENTIAL EFTA 00055167 EFTA01245184 Page 17 1 Mr. Epstein's house that day, and that they were going to 2 go shopping after she got her money, and that could 3 make some money. 4 Q During that ride, did realize that 5 received money from Mr. Epstein? 6 A Yes. At some point knows that 7 received $200, but is unsure that ever gave a 8 massage. So at that particular time did not know why 9 she had gotten the $200, because she didn't think that 10 had had time to give a massage. 11 Q In interview, did she explain what she 12 got the $200 for? 13 A told the Palm Beach police department in 14 her interview that she received her $200 for bringing 15 to the house. 16 Q You mentioned that there were these three 17 different time periods that was interviewed: Shortly 18 after the events, at the time of the state grand jury 19 proceedings, and when you met with her, correct? 20 A Yes. 21 Q And there were some discrepancies between the 22 different interviews. Can you explain some of those to. 23 the grand jury. 24 A Before we go and get 'to that, I want to make 25 sure that -- when we discussed what we.s. told in the MM20- GJ TESTIMONY_MULTIPLE_INDICTMENT-000040 3501.004-001 Page 17 of 29 CONFIDENTIAL EFTA 00055168 EFTA01245185 Page 18 1 car by , that we learned from interview with 2 the Palm Beach police department. So I don't know if I 3 said that, but I want to make sure you know that we first 4 learned that had been by listening to the 5 interview that was conducted between the Palm Beach police 6 department and , not from When I talk later, I 7 just want to make sure you realize that that had not 8 initially come out in interview, but through the 9 interview with 10 So going back. III sorry, discrepancies? 11 Q Yes. 12 A I met with last night to discuss some of 13 the discrepancies when looking at what she had talked to 14 detective about in March of 2005 and what she had 15 testified to in the grand jury in July of 2006. Reading 16 the testimony and listening to the tapes, or reading the 17 transcript, there were a few discrepancies. 18 One of the first ones we talked about was what 19 had told her about going to Mr. Epstein's house. 20 She tells detective that she was told about the 21 massage, told about getting 5200, but that she was not 22 told that she would have to take her clothes off. She 23 didn't know she would have to perform the massage naked. 24 When I asked her last night that question, she 25 told me that when she got to the house prior to going into MM20- GJ TESTIMONY_MULTIPLE_INDICTMENT-000041 3501.004-001 Page 18 of 29 CONFIDENTIAL EFTA 00055169 EFTA01245186 Page 19 1 Mr. Epstein's residence, that did tell her that she 2 may be asked to take off her clothes. She also did state 3 that told her she could stay in her bra. 4 So I wanted you to know that there was a discrepancy in what she originally had told detective 6 and what she told me last night. That would be one. 7 The second discrepancy I wanted to touch on with 8 her was going upstairs and taking off her clothing. When 9 she is in that room, she states to detective that 10 11 12 asked her to remove her clothing, and she took off her shirt. Then Mr. Epstein came in the room, shook her hand and told her to take off her clothes. He leaves, he 13 comes back in a towel. He tells her again. 14 detective tells in a stern voice, "Mr. Epstein told me to 16 take off my pants.• Because she hadn't taken off her 16 pants from the first time that she met him. 17 In her testimony with the grand jury with the .18 state, she tells the grand jury that it was who . 19 asked her to remove her clothing. So last night we went 20 over with her who told her to remove what. She had a very 21 hard time recalling exactly. She knew she had gotten down 22 23 24 to her bra and underwear. And then at some point, when we're going through the sexual activity, she actually tells me that her underwear was off when he was her. MM20 GJ TESTIMONY_MULTIPLE_INDICTMENT-000042 3501.004-001 Page 19 of 29 CONFIDENTIAL EFTA 00055170 EFTA01245187 1 Page 20 Later in the interview, we tell her about what 2 we have in her testimony to the grand jury and her 3 statements made to detective And she really is 4 having a difficult time trying to remember who told her to take off her clothes and her pants. As we are walking 6 through the sexual activity, she does recall and states. 7 that it was Mr. Epstein who told her to take off her 8 pants. 9 I guess I'll go to the third discrepancy. Is 10 there anything I left off with that? 11 Q Well, does she report that when the assistant 12 leads -- or the blonde lady leads her upstairs, that the 13 blonde lady also said, "Get undressed," but that 14 didn't get fully undressed? 15 A That's what she said in her statement to the 16 detective, when she gives her first statement. She tells 17 us again last night that that's what she recalled. 18 Q That the lady said first, "Get undressed," but 19 she doesn't get fully undressed. And when Jeffrey comes 20 back, he said, "Take your pants off."? 21 A Yes. And again, like I said, when we started 22 interviewing her and asking her about this, she did have a 23 hard time. But when we were walking through the sexual 24 activity, that's when she recalls who told her to take off 25 her pants. MM20 GJ TESTIMONY_MULTIPLE_INDICTMENT-000043 3501.004-001 Page 20 of 29 CONFIDENTIAL EFTA 00055I71 EFTA01245188 CONFIDENTIAL Page 21 And I'll tell you, when we talked about the sexual activity, and it comes out that she wasn't wearing 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 her underwear when he was her and she does not recall how they came off. She cannot remember removing her underwear. She doesn't remember if Mr. Epstein removed her underwear. She knows her underwear was off, but she cannot tell you exactly at what point her underwear was removed. Q Let's talk about the third discrepancy. A The third is the sexual activity, when she was originally interviewed by detective vibrator or being about the When detective comes and sees her again a few weeks later, she does tell her at that time that a vibrator She, also says that to the grand jury, she talks about the purple vibrator Last night she told us about the purple vibrator When we asked her about him her, and that had told the police department that she had been told us last night that she was by Mr. Epstein, but that she thought only her and knew about this and that she did not want her father to know that. he had She didn't want anybody to know, but she especially didn't want her father to know, that that was her business. That GJ TESTIMONY_MULTIPLE_INDICTMENT-000044 3501.004-001 Page 21 of 29 EFTA 00055172 EFTA01245189 1 she did not know that Page 22 had told anybody, she thought 2 it was only her and that knew. She was embarrassed 3 and didn't want anybody to know that. Did she become visually upset? 5 A Yes, she began crying when we asked her about being . When she realized that we knew about that, she became very upset and concerned about her father. She mentioned that her father has read a lot 9 of the reports in the State of Florida, and has followed io the state's case. She was concerned about even telling 11 us, afraid that he would be able to read in our reports 12 about this. 13 we explained to her that the FBI's reporting is la a little bit different than the way the state -- those are 15 public records, and ours is part of our case file. 16 Q In addition to the fact that she had these 17 concerns about her father and she was embarrassed, in your 18 experience of interviewing victims of sexual abuse, is it 19 typical for them to not disclose all of the sexual 20 activity? 21 A Yes, it's very typical. And young girls, they 22 don't want to talk about it. This is just another case of 23 her not wanting to tell exactly what took place. 24 Q After that first visit to Mr. Epstein's house, 25 and the interviews with detective , did detective MM20- GJ TESTIMONY_MULTIPLE_INDICTMENT-000045 3501.004-001 Page 22 of 29 CONFIDENTIAL EFTA 00055173 EFTA01245190 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 3.2 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 23 ask to make what are called controlled calls? A Yes. Q Can you explain to the grand jury what a controlled call is? A A controlled call is where we actually have a listening device, where we have an individual place a call to somebody and we are able to record the other person's voice and the conversation that takes place between the person that we're having make the call and the person that they are calling. Q Who did detective ask to call? A was asked to call on the phone. Q And did she do so? A Yes, she did. Q Can you tell the grand jury when the calls were? A I believe the first call was made towards the end of March, I believe it was March 30. called at the Olive Garden where works. was concerned that father. had found out somehow and that they knew about it. And she refers to him as Jeffrey, but Mr. Epstein. told her that they did not know about Mr. Epstein. Later in the conversation tells her that Mr. Epstein would like her to come back and work for him, and that maybe she could work for him tomorrow. So 3 Ii MM20- GJ TESTIMONY_MULTIPLE_INDICTMENT-000046 3501.004-001 Page 23 of 29 CONFIDENTIAL EFTA 00055174 EFTA01245191 Page 24 1 they agreed that there would be a call between and 2 tomorrow, that will call tomorrow. 3 Q Were there calls also made on March 31 of 2006? 4 A There were two calls made on March 31. The 5 first one she doesn't connect to The second call 6 that was made a short time later, answers the phone. 7 Again, there is a discussion about coming to work for 8 Mr. Epstein. tells -- one of the comments that 9 is made is, "The more you do, the more you make." is 10 asking her how much can I make. 11 Again, detective is there, and is 12 asking , how much can I make. is telling 13 that she'll have to ask Mr. Epstein that, that she is 14 going to see Mr. Epstein tomorrow and that she'll talk to • 15 Mr. Epstein. There is conversation about and her 16 twin sister possibly coming to Mr. Epstein's house. There 17 is some discussion about her coming to work for 18 Mr. Epstein. 19 Q Just so it's clear, because there were a lot of 20 shes, is• telling that is going to see 21 Epstein the following day? 22 A Yes. 23 Q And that is going to set up a schedule 24 with Mr. Epstein for and her sister to work for him? 25 A Yes. MM20 GJ TESTIMONY_MULTIPLE_INDICTMENT-000047 3501.004-001 Page 24 of 29 CONFIDENTIAL EFTA 00055175 EFTA01245192 Page 25 1 Q On. April 1, the following day, did make 2 calls to 3 A From the Palm Beach police department, they were 4 able to take voice mail messages left by on S phone stating that could come and work on Saturday 6 around 11:00. 7 Q I think you mentioned this last time, but in 8 case you didn't, did the Palm Beach police department do 9 trash pulls at Mr. Epstein's house? io A Yes, they did. 11 Q Was there anything of value related to this 12 series of calls that were recovered? 13 A Yes.. There was a trash pull done in the 14 beginning of April, and in the trash there was a piece of 15 paper that on it had name, name, and I 16 believe it was 10:30 listed on the piece of paper. 17 Q It said with on Saturday at 10:30? 18 A . Yes, it did. 19 Q In addition to the actual recordings of those 20 phone calls and voice mail messages, do you also have 21 telephone records from both cell phone and 22 cell phone that match up? 23 A Yes. 24 Q Just to go back to something that you mentioned. 25 Who actually gave the $300 cash to at the day she was MM20- GJ TESTIMONY_MULTIPLE_INDICTMENT-000048 3501.004-001 Page 25 of 29 CONFIDENTIAL EFTA 00055176 EFTA01245193 Page 26 1 at Mr. Epstein's house? 2 A Mr. Epstein. 3 Q You mentioned a girl named 4 A Yes. 5 Q Was also interviewed? 6 A Yes, she was. 7 Q Was she asked about going with to take 8 girls to Mr. Epstein's house? 9 A Yes. 10 Q was she asked who the youngest-looking girl was? 11 A Yes. 12 Q What did she say? 13 A She discussed looking young in her 14 interview with the Palm Beach police department. 15 MS. Those are all of my questions 16 for you now. If you could please step outside, I'll 17 see if the grand jurors *have any. 18 (Witness excused, and then returned.) 19 BY MS. 20 Q Agent , we have just a few questions.. 21 One relates to the conversation between Mr. Epstein and 22 III/ about his exploits with other girls. Did Mr. Epstein 23 say anything about the age of those girls? 24 25 talked about a young girl that he was in the back seat A He said that -- in particular on one case he MM20 GJ TESTIMONY_MULTIPLE_INDICTMENT-000049 3501.004-001 Page 26 of 29 CONFIDENTIAL EFTA 00055177 EFTA01245194 1 2 3 4 5 6 Page 27 with, and her parents were in the front seat. He told that they were having sex in the back seat -- were doing sexual things in the back seat while he was carrying on a conversation with the parents in the front seat. I guess they were on their way home from a business party. This was one of the stories that he had talked about. Q But at no time did he provide any specific ages about any of those girls? 10 11 A Q to Mr. No. what was age at the time she took Epstein's house? 12 A She was 18. 13 Q Did Mr. Epstein ask anything about her age? 14 A He did. He asked her how old she was, she said 15 she was 18. He asked her what grade she was in, she said 16 she was in the 12th grade. He asked her where she went to 17 school, and she said she went to Wellington. 18 Q I know we will be doing a lot more discussion 19 about later. But could you tell us briefly how 20 was recruited to go to Mr. Epstein's house? 21 A was at the beach, and two individuals 22 approached her about making money and giving a massage to 23 Mr. Epstein. 24 Q How old was when she first went to 25 Mr. Epstein's house? MM20 GJ TESTIMONY_MULTIPLE_INDICTMENT-000050 3501.004-001 Page 27 of 29 CONFIDENTIAL EFTA 00055178 EFTA01245195 Page 28 1 A Through phone records, we have contact between 2 and starting at age 17. 3 MS. : Those are all the questions. 4 Thank you. 5 (Witness excused, and then returned,) 6 BY MS. 7 Q The question was, was there any particular evidence to suggest that Mr. Epstein knew that was 9 under the age of 18? 10 A I would say through the interviews of the 11 multiple girls that went to Mr. Epstein's house -- the way 12 that having seen last night, and now she's 16 -- this 13 was two years ago -- that age and behavior -- and 14 again, is that more circumstantial evidence? As far as 15 concrete evidence, no. But just by her appearance and her 16 mannerisms and how I observed her last night at age 16. 17 Q And that's consistent with what said 18 during her statement, correct? 19 A Yes, it is. 20 MS. : Any other questions? 21 JUROR: Did she look 18? 22 THE WITNESS: Does look 18? Not in my 23 opinion, sir. 24 MS. : All right. Any other questions? 25 Okay, thank you, very much. MM20- GJ TESTIMONY_MULTIPLE_INDICTMENT-000051 3501.004-001 Page 28 of 29 CONFIDENTIAL EFTA 00055179 EFTA01245196 Page 29 1 (Witness excused.) 2 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 10 11 12 13 14 15 I CERTIFY pages 1 to 28 is a true transcript of my shorthand notes of the testimony of before the Federal Grand Jury, West Palm Beach, Florida, on the 27th day of February, 2007. Dated at West Palm Beach, Florida this 18th day of March, 2007. 16 Philip W. May, Court Reporter 17 18 ' 19 20 21 22 23 • 24 25 MM20 GJ TESTIMONY_MULTIPLE_INDICTMENT-000052 3501.004-001 Page 29 of 29 CONFIDENTIAL EFTA_00055180 EFTA01245197