EFTA Document EFTA01972749

To: Fran: ! yn l iMei Sent Tue 5/28/2013 10:46:09 AM Subject Re: Thanks give me a piano music analogy, / watching the strings, ? after key inputs,? interesting byt not dispositive of anything meaningful On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 6:40 AM, Ed Boyden -t i> wrote: I agree we need a top-down! Two thoughts: -- Yes, developing mapping circuit technology and then applying it to simple behaviors -- hard wired aversive stuff -- is indeed a way to go. As we plan out these mapping technologies, we're actually beginning experiments to map out these aversive things too. We are collaborating with many groups along these lines. We need to finish the fundamental technology building so that we can obtain maps at the right level, and then we can acquire datascts that are compatible with top-down theory, to be sure. -- Another way to think top-down is to work our way inwards, from the observables. We know that behavior -- movement, speech, other action -- is observable; if a feeling or thought is prominent enough, it will be manifest through these channels as an observable. Thus we can also try to infer internal states by their effects on observables, and then to associate neural activity with these internal states and observables. In theory this should scale to arbitrarily complex internal states, not just simple aversive states. Best, Ed On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 11:24 AM, Jeffrey Epstein <ieevacationagmail.com> wrote: > i think you need a top down as well as bottom up. as looking at my piano > while being played, i can go string by string ( not string theory > strings). hammer by hammer, material of string , molecular interaction > naturalvibration, harmonics, sympathtice vibration but i would not hear > or understand the melody or music being played. I believe that each > individual has its own encrpytion algorithm, as the neural net grows > it encrypts some input signals. some are hard wired. so instead of emotion > , movement, speech, etc, I think a proitable area of initail inquiry should > be the hard wired aversive stuff only. smell of dead meat. . reaction > to fire. i tilt& that aesthectics will be the greatest ration of output to > input. . or the least energy to decode. . dissonance, cannot be easily > resolved so the energy to decode the information, is too high and bccomes > painful. Does a dream state come upon us, or do we dream all the time > and concious state relegates the dreams to behind the screen. When sleep > deprived the dreams begin to pop through the screen, as hallucinations. EFTA_R1_00456487 EFTA01972749 > a breakdown of the screen , results in a form of schizphrenia, where they > cann no longer distiguish between voices. dream produced while awake or the > awake state angel on the shoulder whispering. . I am an avid finder of > the bleeding edge in many fields. keep me up to date on what you are > doing, and hope to see you in your own habitat. > On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 11:04 AM, Ed Boyden wrote: >> Hi Jeffrey, >> Yes, it was great chatting about all the ways neuroengineering is >> going to go in the coming years, revealing both fundamental >> mechanistic brain maps, and providing the control knobs for fixing >> brain disorders and understanding complex phenomena like >> consciousness. Would be great to talk about how then to make >> mathematical sense of these maps and control knobs... arguably the >> big stumbling block to date is the lack of good data, but that's about >> to change, thanks to our current and future efforts! Then we will >> have many things that require deep mathematics to understand! >> Ed >> On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 1:16 AM, Joi Ito wrote: >» Hi Jeffrey. » > >> > Thanks for a really enjoyable conversation and your hospitality tonight. >> > Look forward to connecting again and receiving you at the Media Lab on my >» turf ;-) »> >» - Joi » > » -- >> Ed Boyden, Ph. D. >> Leader, Synthetic Neurobiology Group >> Associate Professor, MIT Media Lab and McGovern Institute, >> Departments of Biological Engineering and Brain and Cognitive Sciences >> Benesse Chair, New York Stem Cell Foundation-Robertson Investigator, >> and Paul Allen Distinguished Investigator >> MIT, Room E15-421.20 Ames St., Cambridge, MA 02139 >> office >> cell - >> email »fax -I EFTA_R1_00450488 EFTA01972750 » skype -- >> web - htt lislaitheticnetirobi loev ore >> twitter > > ************** ***** **************************************** > The information contained in this communication is > confidential, may be attorney-client privileged, may > constitute inside information, and is intended only for > the use of the addressee. It is the property of > Jeffrey Epstein > Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this > communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited > and may be unlawful. If you have received this > communication in error, please notify us immediately by > return e-mail or by e-mail to [email protected], and > destroy this communication and all copies thereof, > including all attachments. copyright -all rights reserved Ed Boyden, Ph. D. Leader, Synthetic Neurobiology Group Associate Professor, MIT Media Lab and McGovern Institute, Departments of Biological Engineering and Brain and Cognitive Sciences Benesse Chair, New York Stem Cell Foundation-Robertson Investigator, and Paul Allen Distinguished Investigator MIT, Rnnm 0 Ames St., Cambridge, MA 02139 office cell - email fax skype - web - ht ://s ntheticnc rr i I . r twitter - *********************************************************** The information contained in this communication is confidential, may be attorney-client privileged, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for EFTA_R1_00456489 EFTA01972751 the use of the addressee. It is the property of Jeffrey Epstein Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return e-mail or by e-mail to [email protected] and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments. copyright -all rights reserved EFTA_R1_00458490 EFTA01972752